Hunts On Outfitting Podcast
Stories! As hunters and outdoors people that seems to be a common thing we all have lots of. Join your amateur guide and host on this channel Ken as he gets tales from guys and gals. Chasing that trophy buck for years to an entertaining morning on the duck pond, comedian ones, to interesting that's what you are going to hear. Also along with some general hunting discussions from time to time but making sure to leave political talks out of it. Don't take this too serious as we sure don't! If you enjoy this at all or find it fun to listen to, we really appreciate if you would subscribe and leave a review. Thanks for. checking us out! We are also on fb as Hunts on outfitting, and instagram. We are on YouTube as Hunts on outfitting podcast.
Hunts On Outfitting Podcast
Hunting Adventures: Insights from Roger's Bow Hunting Journeys And His Book
Roger Lewis, a seasoned hunter and author, takes us on an adrenaline-fueled journey from his early days hunting small game in Nova Scotia to the heart-pounding moments of bow hunting Cape Buffalo in Africa. This episode is packed with fascinating stories, including Roger’s evolution into big game hunting, his passion for writing, and his successful outfitting business. Hear Roger recount the apex of his hunting career and the unforgettable thrill of taking down a Cape Buffalo with a bow.
Join us as we venture into the world of bow hunting, capturing the excitement and challenges that come with tracking game in various terrains. Roger shares some of his most memorable hunts, including the nerve-wracking moments of tracking Cape Buffalo in dense brush and the sheer satisfaction of downing a bull moose after numerous attempts. We also touch on the practicalities of hunting, discussing when a rifle might be more appropriate, yet always emphasizing the ultimate thrill of the hunt.
Our conversation extends into the ethical and conservation aspects of hunting, shedding light on how the hunting industry supports wildlife preservation and local communities, particularly in Africa. Roger discusses the importance of utilizing every part of the animal and provides insights into his hunts in Eastern Canada. We wrap up with a deep dive into traditional archery, exploring Roger’s dedication to this ancient practice and the challenges and rewards it presents. Don’t miss Roger’s intense and proud moment in the Limpopo Valley, showcasing his commitment to ethical hunting and animal welfare.
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this is hunts on outfitting podcast. I'm your host and rookie guide, ken marr. I love everything hunting the outdoors and all things associated with it, from stories to how to's. You'll find it here. Welcome to the podcast, all righty. Welcome to huntsman outfitting podcast. The only podcast brought to you by al's always available.
Speaker 1:Don't call between 4 pm and 9 am or if it's raining or snowing or kind of like cloudy out or too hot or like that time of day the sun is in your eyes and you can't really see. Well, towing kind of seems misleading advertising. But thanks there, al um also on just something to take care of. So on the podcast, uh, app somewhere I'm not really sure where because I'm not that techie, but somebody found it. There is a way that you can message me. I can't message back but I can see it. And if you're listening to this, uh, we had a guy from fort mcmurray, al, message me and suggest two people to come on the podcast. I couldn't find one of them, but the other one I could Tom Byers, if you're listening to this, from Alberta. I did get in contact with him. He will be on the podcast this spring. We're going to talk food plots. He's, I'd say, a bit of an expert in it. So thanks for that. I did see the mail, thank you Stories that's a big part of what this podcast can be about.
Speaker 1:As hunters, most all of us have plenty of them, from the big one that got away to the memorable morning spent in the field, to some fun and laughs with family and friends at deer camp. A lot of us may not realize just how many great ones we have until we stop and really think about it. We might forget how far we have come in our hunting journey. Looking back over the years, there could be animals harvested in places that we may have previously thought to be unattainable and out of reach. Well, today's guest has had a great many personal achievements reached throughout his decades of hunting, with some great stories to go along, many of which he never thought he would be in the position to do. He tried to, over the years, write down and keep track of his fortunate hunting adventures.
Speaker 1:Lucky for us, he turned it into an interesting book. From shooting snowshoe hare in Nova Scotia to taking Cape Buffalo with his bow in Africa that is what we're talking about today. We're about to get to it. If you like the podcast, please share us out, leave us a review, let's get it going. Yeah, so, roger Lewis, thanks so much for coming on the podcast. We're going to talk about your book. But before we get into that, why don't we get to know you know who wrote the book? About yourself.
Speaker 2:Sure, yeah, well, firstly, thanks for having me on on. It's always fun to chat with like-minded people and stuff like that. So, yeah, a little background on myself. Like many, many people in this neck of the woods, I grew up hunting small game with family Primarily my father, you know from from rabbits and then graduated the big game and then started traveling around a little bit to different provinces and countries, and even continents I guess. And uh, uh, along the way, I uh started selling some stories to some magazines, mostly all Canadian, not all, but the majority like Eastern Woods and Waters Bowbender Magazine. There was a New Brunswick Sportsman, one was Arrow something magazine which was international. I sold to them the Main Sportsman and there was a few others.
Speaker 2:Anyways, it was uh, I found it enjoyable kind of, uh kind of prolong the hunting season and or the actual hunt I was talking about. Uh, most of the responses were uh, pretty favorable. So, uh, I got into the habit of jotting down stories and notes and stuff like that and, like I say, it was mostly just to keep the hunt alive, so to speak, and along the way I still currently am, but I ran my own outfitting business. So, even though I never made my main living from it. I always dabbled in guiding and writing and outdoor stuff and then, of course, hunting personally Mostly a meat hunter because my whole family enjoys eating it and stuff like that. So then, anyways, all that combined with some encouragement, and I haven't had too many articles that I submitted that never got published or whatever.
Speaker 2:So I'll just go right to the chase, I guess and this is kind of the big bang of the whole book but I was laying in my bunk one day I just bow hunted a Cape buffalo in Africa and I was sitting there in a tent, I mean a beautiful tent. It had a washroom but it was still a tent and the screen was closed, mostly to keep the monkeys out from stealing all their stuff. But I could look out the screen and I could see the stars and it was quite literally one of the best days I ever had, certainly one of the best days I ever had hunting. And I just thought back to you know kind of where it all started, like as, like a young kid literally a young kid, younger than we're permitted to now uh, you know, chasing rabbits in the alders around this one particular snowy day I recall vividly.
Speaker 2:And then just uh, up to that moment, you know, shooting that buffalo and and it was like I'd always been enthralled with africa and the game hunting there, particularly, uh, dangerous game, read lots of peter capstick books and and anyway, that that very afternoon it was almost like a lifetime worth of wishes and dreams. Is when the, the guide, or they referred to as ph's professional hunters there whispered in my ear when the animal turned just right and he said, like take them right. And it was just like like I was probably 60 years old. Then it was just a rush of a whole lifetime's worth of dreams came together. So, anyways, I was sitting in that tent and I looked at it and I said if I ever wrote a book, I'm going to call it from alders to Africa. And then I just slowly kind of drifted off to sleep and when I came home I started working on the book so that's how it got started.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because I mean I love the book title. Uh, because it kind of gives you, paints you a picture of you know, you didn't just start in Africa and the, the alders to Africa, the alders part, is more of a like humble beginnings in your hunting journey.
Speaker 2:I guess yeah, there's no, no, no question grew up definitely kind of middle to no hard stories here. I never went to bed hungry or anything, but never, you know, whatever I achieved in hunting, you know nothing was didn't grow up rich, didn't grow up with like acreage to hunt on. It was. It was all a lot of hard work and just hunting public land and and you know you make contacts and you know you save a little bit and you buy your own piece of property. But yeah, it was, I mean very, very humble beginning I'm still humble, very humble beginnings to get me through africa and it was just, it was a long journey and, um, many, many people who have read the book have actually taken some time out of their busy lives and sent me a note or email or something and they said the biggest thing I loved about the book is that I can relate to it, that literally that was me.
Speaker 2:I had that uncle or father that you know took me out and the whole camp experience, the deer camp experience, they're like I could relate to it and honestly that was, that was my whole goal. It was like there's thousands and thousands of people who have this whole story and if they can relate to it, enjoy it, then you know it's, it's a success, right?
Speaker 1:yeah, well, I mean, most of the people reading it are kind of your, your average joes, you know, and it's it's nice to be able to relate to that. And it's not something, uh, so unrealistic that you read about some of these bigger professional hunters where it is inter, you know it's interesting, but it's so out of reach for a lot of us.
Speaker 2:That's it, A lot of it. I mean hunting, as everyone's aware it's becoming, especially if you want to travel and shoot some, you know, different animals. It's becoming a pretty pricey endeavor, right, and so it's relatable, right For sure.
Speaker 1:So you're based, you live in Nova Scotia, canada, correct? Yeah, yeah, okay, and is that where you're you mainly guide out of? I know you travel around, you go to Newfoundland a bit and stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah, newfoundland, new Brunswick and Nova Scotia.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:All right, that's where we operate or guide out of. I don't currently own any hunting camps, but I do work for a couple.
Speaker 1:Yep, yep.
Speaker 2:So I mean writing the book, the vast majority of it, like 75% of it or more uh, some few months, you know, like after Christmas, but and then by that spring I probably had the majority of it done. And uh, to be perfectly honest, I shopped it around like in a more traditional type of book launch or whatever. Right, nothing, nothing, just was a good fit. There was some you know offers or potential offers, but they needed it to be reworked. And uh, no, no doubt they were right, but I I felt like, uh, they were kind of missing, missing the essence of what I wanted to say. Right, like they had a more of a formula or something, or some parts of the book. They, they weren't crazy that I included or whatever.
Speaker 2:Anyways, in my opinion, I'm sure they're right, but you know, sometimes you just stick to your gun. Sometimes it's like I just didn't feel it was like how I wanted to put a book out. So on my website and on my Facebook hunting group, you know, I just started saying, well, I'm not going to do the book. And I just started putting out, well, I'm not going to do the book, and I just started putting out some of the chapters of the book or parts of the chapters, some stories or whatever I would take it, and just again, the feedback was super positive. So, almost like a year and a half later, I was like you know what I'm going to finish that book? So I finished the book and then released it. So overall I was like you know what I'm going to finish that book? So so I finished, I finished the book and then and then released it. So overall it was like some couple of years, but the vast, vast majority of the book was done over one winter.
Speaker 1:Right Cause I mean you had a lot of your stories saved already.
Speaker 2:So so many? Yeah, yeah, it was, it was quite literally, quite literally. You know, I haven't never wrote a book before. Uh, it was, it was.
Speaker 2:It was hard to say, oh, you know, like what, what becomes redundant or what becomes boring. So I tried to, just I tried to, I guess I would say just capture, like let's say, you know, you know you go through stages in hunting like certain. I would just capture like let's say, you know, you know you go through stages in hunting like certain. I would just capture certain stages that I went through a lifetime of hunting and I chose those stories. I mean I could have put, I could have made the book four times as long, but there's always that balance in act. It's like, why are you just repeating yourself, you know like or not repeating yourself, because it'd be different stories, but you know it just gets to be redundant and maybe, you know, even boring perhaps, I guess. So I just picked out a few that I figured captured certain points in my life as a hunter that I thought other people could relate to, and that's what I went with, right?
Speaker 1:No, that's what I went with, right, no, that's great. I mean, yeah, what? How do you go about? I mean it's on Amazon and it's I was reading the review stuff. It's you know it's doing quite well, how do you go about? I mean taking your stories?
Speaker 2:putting them on paper and then getting it to a point where it's a full book and then on Amazon. Yeah, that's pretty simple really. There's multiple ways. I went the simplest way. This is a true story and once you read the book you'll realize it.
Speaker 2:I had some formatting issues because I'd never formatted anything in my life and when I translated it into the book there was some problems. I didn't have an editor. Again, the book may have been better with an editor, but that requires money and I don't know. I just wanted to put it in my own words. You'll see that in the book there's the odd spelling error and there's the odd little formatting issue, but it still reads pretty well.
Speaker 2:So, anyways, to answer your question, the way I did it, there's no real approval. I mean they will. I mean they have guidelines and they review it. You know there's certain things you can't do or say, or they won't print or whatever. But essentially, if it meets you know their guidelines they'll just, they'll just print it. Right, it's not a super hard sell like. It's not like a traditional book deal, to be honest. I mean traditional book deals, uh, the author would, would make more money or whatever, but this way, uh, they essentially do all the work. They look after all the shipping. Uh, they look after paying me and my and my taxes. Yeah, for somebody who doesn't want to babysit it the whole time and look after money and whatnot and shipping, it's the simplest way to do it. Okay, yeah, quite frankly, that's why I chose them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, no, it makes sense. I mean, do you find where it is, how the world has gotten a little different? Where it is a hunting book, did you ever think writing it that like maybe you'd have a bit of resistance from some places on trying to sell it?
Speaker 2:well that that that did happen. And when I was like two or three years ago, um, uh, none came out and said uh, you know, we're not publishing this book because it's hunting or whatever. They're just saying, you know, they did say you know, that's not a genre we're interested in. Uh, you know, along those lines they were. They were nice about it.
Speaker 1:They didn't bash hunting or anything, but they just said that's just not what we're what we're interested in putting out Right, okay, yeah, yeah, cause I mean I wondered that there's there's a lot of people that are hunters and want to read it, but unfortunately, the ones that are more so against it, I guess in a lot of those positions.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and there was some. I never had any out and out bashing. No, nothing rude, it was just a polite. You know, that's just not what we're interested in doing. Essentially, probably because it was hunting right, but I never experienced any like flat out issue, you know straight up issues, because it was a hunting book and nobody ever said that to me yeah, but that's good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, uh, what as the whole book? What would be one of your more favorite chapters in it, and why?
Speaker 2:okay, I think. Well, I, I guess I kind of got two, two that maybe would be a tie, I don't know, and they're not necessarily well, they're opposite ends of the spectrum. The chapter in there on the Cape Buffalo was just amazing to me, like it was quite literally a dream come true. It's a long ways to go Hunting with the bows, a little bit tricky and certainly exciting, um. But some of my favorite ones are more campy and more homing, just like hunting deer down at the camp with my father and my brother, right like those.
Speaker 2:Those still strike home to me, right or small, some of the small game hunting and, you know, chasing rabbits around those are. Those are some of the ones that I guess I'm answering more than yes, but the cape buffalo one will be good. And then I've shot. I've shot a fair number of moose but, um, and despite my best efforts, uh, I bow hunted them plenty of times and never got one. And then when I finally did shoot a bull moose with my bow, that was, uh, I don't know if it's personal or whatever, but that was.
Speaker 1:That's one of my favorite, one of my favorite memories, for sure yeah, yeah, I mean you, you're a big bow hunter and a pretty accomplished one. Um, it's, yeah, it's interesting, just that added challenge to it as well that you, that you take on it is.
Speaker 2:It's definitely, it's definitely an added challenge, um, and like, I'm pretty hardcore bow hunter. But the price of hunts and stuff like that, now you know, like I'm not opposed if you lay it a bunch of money and you go on a hunt, you know, especially on like a moose hunt where, uh, I love moose meat, it's one of our favorites, right, and uh, you know, bringing home a moose, I mean that's a substantial, mean, that's a substantial, that's a substantial saving. I mean you're going to eat on that moose pretty much till the next time you get, you know, all year, whatever, right? So I'm not such a staunch bow hunter that I will not break out a rifle and and shoot one, because that's exciting too. We all, we all know that.
Speaker 2:Like there's nothing, I don't I don't mean to imply anything snobbish by bow hunting or that it's the only way or the best way or whatever. Um, I just enjoy it the most. So if I have a reasonable chance, that's going to be, that's going to be my go-to method every time for me, but certainly not opposed to hunting with a rifle. Enjoy it. You know I enjoy it a ton, right. So bow hunting just for me works, right, yeah yeah, I mean.
Speaker 1:and two also where would you mainly hunt with a bow and what would be your most your favorite hunt of all? I guess I kind of asked that before about stories, but your favorite animal, I'm guessing, like the Cape Buffalo thing I know you talk about that a lot and I think that'd be amazing hunting, you know, the Black Death. Would that be one of your more favorite hunts? Would?
Speaker 2:that be one of your more favorite hunts? Sure, yes, it would. Yeah, yeah, like, like I alluded to earlier, when, when we, when we watched the herd come into the water and finally the uh pH, you know, whispered in my ear that it's a couple of times the animal wasn't quite broadside. And when he whispered, like you know, like, take it right, it was just like, oh, like I said, three quarters of a lifetime of wishing for it coming true at that moment, um, uh, I I'll can add, like when, when we were stalking them and the thick, thorny brush and stuff, um, it's amazing how something that big can hide, like you know what I mean. A few times we were within 30, 40 yards of the herd and all you would see would be like an ear flip, like you know. Like you would think, how do I not see a herd of cape buffalo, but just in the thickness, and that you'd be right on top of them. And one thing I tell a herd of Cape buffalo, but just in the thickness of that, and you'd be right on top of them. And one thing I tell a lot of people and I don't have words to adequately describe it so you're going there and you're within 30 yards, 40 yards, of the herd and you'll feel like a little breeze because the wind was always swirling, and you feel a little cold breeze on your neck and them animals take off and when they I mean they make a lot of noise, when they're breaking branches and stuff like that, and there's that first couple snaps of a branch or a thud of a hoof, and the first one, like you don't know if they're coming at you, they're going away, like it's only when you hear like subsequent branches snapping that you realize oh, they're going the other way and I can't describe it. But that's a moment that you can't or I can't imagine. Like, when you hear them going, they're like, oh, which way are they going? Right, and you're, you're here.
Speaker 2:My professional hunter was using a 458 Winchester Magnum and he, he kind of had that thing half shoulder thumb on the safety and it's it's, it's severely intense, like you have this, you have this taste in your it's like like you just lick the copper pipe. You have this taste of it's a different, it's like tracking. Nothing else that I've that I have ever experienced, uh, even to this day in africa. Um, well, here's, here's a. A good friend of mine came with me and we had two professional hunters booked and just days I mean days before we left the other professional hunter that my friend was going to hunt with, he was killed tracking a Cape Buffalo. Like I say, it was just days, because when we did arrive and of course they asked us and we obviously had no problem they asked if they could take a day or two off to travel down to his funeral. So it was only days before we arrived.
Speaker 2:So you know, sometimes in the modern world, you know. So you know, sometimes in the modern world, you know, things seem more sanitized or whatever, I don't even know how to describe it. But then they may have been like when our fathers or uncles or mothers and brothers, older brothers, hunted or whatever. But in Africa it's still very real. They're very dangerous. I don't have an exact number, but they still kill a lot of hunters. It's like you're going back 50 years. So it seems. I don't even know if that's the right way to describe it, but it's very real and it's very intense.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean it's crazy. A lot of people would underestimate the danger of them because I mean they're a cow more or less.
Speaker 2:Oh, huge, yeah, I think they'll be like 2,000 pounds, right, yeah, and they have a reputation, that's true, of just bouncing like 375, 188 mag. Not literally bouncing, but when they get it in their mind they're almost unstoppable. Do you know what I mean? They'll just suck up intense and crazy amounts of lead and they just want to kill you. They're, they're mean and uh, they say when you get on the, I mean I guess you could just maybe exaggerate it, but it's like when you jump on the track of a, even if it's mortally hit, but like a wounded buffalo, one of you is going to come out dead. You're going to find it dead and have to shoot it, or or it's going to get you They'll. They'll often like uh, they'll do like a fish hook, like they'll go and then go kind of like hook back a little bit so that when you're tracking them, like they're right on your side, right, and they'll just come. I didn't experience that, but they'll just come bellowing out of the uh, like from like 20 yards away where they're bedded down right. So my buffalo.
Speaker 2:Now I used uh, uh, like a thousand grain arrow, which is like ridiculously heavy. The broadhead was 315 grains, single bevel grizzly stick and we found it probably went 150 yards. And when we found it we waited about an hour, it was. It expired Like it was one shot 150 yards and was down, right, yeah, so we were. I mean, that's, that's what's supposed to happen. Uh, archery equipment is more than capable, but it was still lucky. Like I mean, they don't a lot of times they need finished off with a rifle, not that it matters, but then it's not truly like a, a bow harvest or whatever you want to call it right yeah, I mean that's.
Speaker 1:That's incredible that not only you know you successfully got one, but that you did with the bow, which I I think a lot this yeah, there's been a lot less buffalo taken with the bow than with the, oh for sure yeah, yeah, and the fact, yeah, and, and a lot, lot.
Speaker 2:I don't know. I don't have numbers, but a good many, even though the shot may have ultimately proved to have been fatal. You know they're finished off with a rifle just for safety, or I mean they're charging. But even a lot of times if they're going once you hit them, it's pretty. It's not uncommon for the P8s to start flinging lead just because he's responsible for his trackers and his staff and you and himself. Right, but we gave it an hour and got on the track and dead as a net when we found it right.
Speaker 1:We were fortunate. Were you a little? You said before you got there they were attending a funeral for a guy that was killed. But were you a little? Uh, you said before you got there they were attending a funeral for a guy that was killed. But when we're a little apprehensive, like oh geez like oh, they live, oh yeah, mutation yeah, there's no, there's no question.
Speaker 2:When we uh, when we uh, the very first morning when we took off after the track on the, we found fresh bore, fresh tracks and we jumped on them and like the trackers and they're just, I don't, they're just incredible. They're the best trackers I've ever seen in my life and I've seen some fairly good trackers. They're just, they're amazing. I don't even know how they follow the tracks, but they do, and because I mean, it's almost like drought conditions there, the dirt is pretty much like asphalt, and so, anyways, long story short is when we started tracking, I was like here we go, like let's go look at a buffalo, and just going through the woods it was things that should have been easy just in your hyper state seemed hard, you know, like just lifting your leg over a fallen tree or something like that Just felt like your boots weighed like 20 pounds or something Like everything was magnified, like it was. I guess that's just the excitement and and and the rush of it all. Right, I uh, yeah, it's something I guess you have to experience, because I I can't describe it adequately, but it's uh, it's an amazing, amazing experience. For sure. We uh and I should say I always say, uh, we, uh, just because of distance and stuff like and and I'm, like I say I'm. I mean if I see a big buck or a small buck, I'm shooting a big buck, there's no doubt about it. But I'm primarily a meat hunter. Right, that's a huge part of my reason for hunting. It's, you know, good, clean protein and stuff like that. So obviously it's impossible to bring uh cape buffalo home from africa. So when we were I've been there africa twice every time we were there, like we ate some everything we shot other than uh warthogs, because they tell me they're not really fit to eat. But um, uh, but we couldn't eat a whole Cape Buffalo obviously.
Speaker 2:But anyways, uh, every animal like the 10 animals I guess, when my group was there, like in the uh two trips uh, every single animal, uh was cared for just as if you were. You know it was a deer you shot and you were bringing home and hanging up in your cooler and you were going to feed it to the family was looked after, perfect, just as if it was your own and hung in big cold storage and every single ounce of that meat was donated to the local population. Nothing went to waste, like you know, sometimes, when you say, oh, you know you would hunt a, you know a cape buffalo or a sable or a kudu, whatever you know, and africa just drums up, you know like it's almost become a bad term, like the term term trophy hunting, you know where, you just cut the horns out of it and you go on your merry way. Well, nothing could be further from the truth. Every single ounce of usable meat from that Cape Buffalo was hung and cut and distributed to the local population. So nothing goes to waste.
Speaker 2:I didn't need it. You know that was the goes to waste. I didn't. I didn't need it. You know that was. The only difference is I personally didn't need it, but every lick of that, every lick was of, that was eating. I mean, there's areas in Africa that are, you know it's pretty hard times and protein is scarce. So it's, it's appreciated and it makes a difference to the local populations the amount of meat that hunters donate.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think there's so many misconceptions, like you said, when people hear the word Africa and hunting they just think it's bad. But I don't think a lot of people realize that. Besides, you know Kruger National Park and some of those national parks, a lot of the land there that is set aside to keep natural and, you know, not logging and farming is strictly and only because of the land there that is set aside to keep natural and not logging and farming is strictly and only because of the money coming in for hunts.
Speaker 2:That's it.
Speaker 2:There's no question. No, that's right, there's no question. These hacks are indisputable. If somebody doesn't like hunting or whatever, you know I respect that opinion. But if you look at it, the some of these animals were close to I don't know if they were close to extinct, but you know they were endangered.
Speaker 2:Numbers were way, way, way, way, way down and it was literally the hunting industry that brought it back, because they saved the land, right, you know what I mean From being developed and farmed and stuff like that. And now there's a balance. You have to have farms too, don't get me wrong. But if it wasn't for that hunting industry, many, many of those animals would no longer exist or in such a minute amount and, like I say, there would be like incredible poaching because it's just a way, you know you have to eat over there and back in the backcountry. There's no real work unless in the in the back country there's, you know there's no real work unless it's through the outfitters or whatever, right. So there's a reason to protect those animals now because they have a value. So the government and the locals and the uh, uh hunting outfitters, uh, they've given them a value and when something, when something has a value it gets, it gets protected and gets you know game management and protection and stuff like that yeah, yeah, exactly it's.
Speaker 1:It's a really good thing. People learn about that in your book too.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, no, it's. Uh, it's a good. Uh, it's a, it's a good hunt, it's an, it's an incredible place to visit. It's just, it's just insane. But like, like I say, don't have a ton of money, didn't go up rich, I don't. I don't jump all over the world on a whim, you know going hunting because I don't have deep enough pockets.
Speaker 2:The vast majority of the book is uh hunting at home here in in eastern canada, right, and then the trips I've saved up for uh and and gone to in in the us and other parts of canada are also are also included. But I would say the bulk of it. Like, I don't want people to think, oh, it's just some dude that's got more money than more money than brains or whatever, shooting around the world. I wish I was. There's nothing wrong with that, you know, no, but it's, it's not like the, it's a over a lifetime. You know, when you read it in one book, it's like god, that's all this guy does is hunt. But it's over, it's over nearly 65 years of uh, you know, scrimping and saving, making contacts and stuff like that, and and most of it's just most of the book is hunting deer, bear, moose, caribou and small game here in Eastern Canada. The bulk of it right, and probably the exact same way. You grew up hunting and others grew up hunting right, so it's relatable.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, exactly, I want to get into a little bit too. You do something else. That's kind of unique.
Speaker 2:You're really into traditional archery, not necessarily compound, I always, I don't always, but I'll say, you know, half jokingly, half serious, I'll say you know, I have, I have. I had two birthdays the day I was born and the day I discovered traditional archery. That's just. That's my preferred method of everything. I just love it. You know, it's not, it's not for everybody or whatever. I don't think it makes you any better hunter or any more of an elite hunter. I just like it. So so that's so, that's why I do it.
Speaker 1:I do, I find it, I mean I find your. You know, you're almost a little better of a hunter in a way. I mean it's one thing to hunt like we were talking earlier arch archery, which is that added challenge, and then with the traditional archery that's even on top of that added challenge sure, and it is.
Speaker 2:I mean, um, there's, there's two key things I would say is, uh, with very rare exception, I would say, uh, your distance is probably cut in half, like your effective shooting distance is probably cut in half for most people. Number two is you have to shoot it more. It's not something you can put down or most people I'm sure there's some talented people that just have that certain knack but it's not something that you can put down and pick up a week before the season opens. You know what I mean. You kind of have to shoot it and you kind of have to work at it. So to me that it's not work, because I just enjoy. I just enjoy shooting it.
Speaker 2:A little backstory is and again, that's all. These stories mostly are in my book but, uh, I really, really, really wanted to shoot that Cape Buffalo with a traditional bow, cause, up until that point, um, it'd probably been 20 years since I'd used anything but a traditional bow to hunt like, like, like everything. Right, that's all I hunted. I just went hardcore. Hunt, like, like, like everything. Right, that's all I hunted, I just went hardcore. And then so, when I booked this hunt, my first trip to africa although I didn't hunt any dangerous game but I brought, I brought a traditional bow and shot, like shot, way above my pay grade and did, did very good, but none of those animals would be considered like dangerous game. So when I booked a Cape Buffalo hunt, first thing I did was like, okay, I'm going to need at least a 70 pound uh, traditional recurve bow. And before I went out and bought one, I borrowed a couple and they were like 67 or 68 pounds. They were just still shy of the 70 because everyone said you probably want to be over 70. And in all honesty, I couldn't shoot them, or I could shoot them but I couldn't shoot them. Well, like they just overbowed me, they were just a little like way higher. It's way different than shooting a compound bow. There's like zero let off and I couldn't just gain control of them enough to where I wanted to go hunting with them.
Speaker 2:So, uh, after like I say, 20 years, I, um, I purchased a compound boat and I started shooting that and that's what I shot the uh. And I started shooting that and that's what I shot the uh with the, the buffalo, with right. But if I could have shot a 70 pound recurve, that's what I would have done. But you know there comes a point where it just becomes a stunt or you know the only thing that's going to suffer is, yeah, like I just couldn't. I just couldn't, master's not there. I just the draw weight was just too heavy and I couldn't be consistent enough that I felt like I'd do myself or the animal service. So that was the first time in 20 years that I I went and I bought a uh, a compound bow and I and I took that hunting right well, it's very understandable, for uh, yeah, for yeah, there's no yeah, I mean animal, you know correct.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean ethics. Animal always comes first, right to try and do otherwise. It's almost like a stunt, and the only one that loses is the animal, and I just, I just wasn't good with that.
Speaker 1:So yeah, no, it's good. I mean, like I said, it's still very impressive that you killed a cape buffalo with a comp tempo you know it was, it was a good, it was a it good, it was a deal.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's no question, it was pretty intense and you know I was pretty proud of it to be. You know God's honest truth, it was like I did it did it on, you know, his terms and it was great. It was great.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what part of Africarica of? I mean I know you talked about in book, but was that in?
Speaker 2:so well, limpo pole region. It's a pretty famous, it's called the limpo pole river valley or something like that. And um, it's, uh, we, where we hunted the buffalo, was five miles from, uh, botswana. I realized for most people that until you look on a map it wouldn't, it wouldn't mean much, but if you ever had that desire, it's called limpo po valley and we were like, basically five miles from the botswana border. That's where I hunted the Cape Buffalo and that was like I said.
Speaker 2:I flew into Johannesburg and we went from there some four hours away or whatever, and the area of the first place I hunted escaped me, but it was. I mean, it was quite far away because I flew into Johannesburg and then I took another plane, another couple-hour flight or hour flight from Johannesburg to Durban and they picked me up in Durban and we went from there and the actual name of the area escapes me now. But the Cape Buffalo was in the Limpopo Valley and that's where. I don't know if anybody who listens to this podcast, or even in eastern Canada, to be quite honest was like Peter Hathaway Capstick. He wrote a ton of books on African hunting, he was like a Wall Street broker, banker, and he quit and became a professional hunter back in the 70s. So his books are more you know, more modern and like turn of the century stuff and anyone who reads those books are familiar with him and he has probably five or six books out. I mean, he was quite a famous author on hunting Africa that's the region that he hunted.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, I've heard of that. It's the region that he hunted. Okay, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I've heard of that.
Speaker 2:It's really interesting Did you use the same outfitter for both times. You went Nope, nope, two different. The first place I went and zero complaints. Nothing but five-star rating from me. I would.
Speaker 2:In fact I had planned on going back with him and the name of that place was called Dare to Bowhunt and initially that's why I wound up hooking up with him, because they only bowhunt there. And when I talked to the owner it was evident he knew a lot about bow hunting, like I'd talked to other outfits and they didn't want anything to do with bow hunting or do some blind hunting too, like stands or elevated stands. They were all more like for rifle, like they were like 50 yards out or whatever. And that was just. I wasn't comfortable with that. So I met this uh guy from uh deer to bow hunt and he hunted with a traditional bow. So we understood all the nuances and and what I would require and the kind of shot. So I helped out with him and went and I actually thought I would go back with him Cause he was fine. I did not go back for any reasons of unhappiness, but just in the meantime I met the owner of just trying to think of his name. It'll, it'll come to me. I talked to him all the time and tennis red fan of his name, now it'll, it'll, uh, come to me.
Speaker 2:I talked to him all the time and tennis red fan is his name, oh, and his outfit is called african game hunters and, uh, he also bow hunted, not exclusively, but he, uh, he seemed to be maybe a little bit more experienced in a dangerous game, particularly a Buffalo. He hunts like five countries. I couldn't name them all, but it would be South Africa, botswana, namibia, zambia, maybe I'm not sure, but he hunts five countries full time. The other guy was full time too, but he owned the property. Like, yeah, it would be more like a, almost like a, uh, a hunt here for elk. You know, you go and you would hunt the ranch, so to speak, right, uh, this guy hunts. The guy that I went with the k-pop, he hunted everywhere, had a lot of experience with um, buffalo and um, you know, and then sometimes you just get a vibe, we just hit it off, right, and so that's why I book with it.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, yeah, getting back. I'm just curious. You know you've done a lot of hunting over the years. Getting back to, say, north America, what would be your favorite animal to hunt and why?
Speaker 2:My favorite animal to hunt would probably be. I'm still going to have to say, and I've hunted a few critters around but a white tail.
Speaker 1:Oh, really Okay.
Speaker 2:I think moose and caribou and all that, but really Moose and caribou? Yeah, antelope, right, bald hogs, you know what I mean. I just think a big white tail, especially with a bow well, with anything, forget the bow thing it's just tricky of a customer as any and I think they are as hard to get as anything out there. So, having said that, I still think that would be that has to be up there. I just have immense respect for them. Now, caribou I've shot two caribou and to see a caribou out in that northern country, you know there are bogs and the lichen and stuff is all red and orange and it's just a brutally harsh country to exist in. But yet they thrive and they have that big, long white mane and you know beautiful antlers and stuff like that. Um, for scenery and just overall adventure, like being like you feel like you're really really remote, would caribou, caribou would rank up there. Um, I hunted, uh, wyoming a couple times for um antelope and again that like it's just all shade, like you can smell the sage grass, like when you get out of the truck or whatever, like sage grass just grows wild there, I guess, and there's always flat, there's always wind and you can just smell it pretty, pretty spectacular. Uh, I think some of the some of the most gorgeous scenery I've ever seen was elk hunting in Colorado. I mean, it's postcard perfect, like you know snow, cap, mountains and stuff like that. Unfortunately, I do not know what it's like to shoot an elk because I bow hunted them on public land and I wasn't successful. But the trips were just phenomenal because we camped in a tent at like 10,000 feet and there was elk bugling and was close. You know, had I had a rifle I could have, I could have been successful or whatever. But I I didn't. But that country and you'd be laying in the tent at night, kind of half shivering, because it was pretty cold and you'd hear them. You know them, bull elk like bugling around you in the mountains. So you knew they were there and it was pretty phenomenal.
Speaker 2:So I guess I've given you like six answers for one question. So I guess a lot of them mostly, they're all tied for first, right, they're all tied for first, right, they're all tied for first. Now, if we tweaked the question and we said uh, you know, after having shot a bunch of whitetails and some antelope, you know shot a few things, moose and what I most want next would be an elk with my bow. Yeah, because there's something. If you haven't done it and you've tried, like we hunted hard, those two trips out there, uh, more than anything, that's. That's probably what I go to bed thinking about the most is like I want an elk, right? Yeah? So maybe you never, you never know, right.
Speaker 1:Oh, I, I think it's in the cards for you, I mean but just you describing your elk hunt experience. Even though you guys didn't get a harvest at the end, it sounded quite successful to me really.
Speaker 2:It truly is. So when I went there I was using my recurve bow and on my archery. Archery licenses are easy to get. You can get them over the counter, like drawn rifle tags for certain. It's pretty complicated how you do it down there, but to get an archery license is is pretty simple because I think it's such low success that it's basically over the counter. So I got, got an over the counter actually tag and I was um, entitled to not saying I, I want.
Speaker 2:I'm not sure if I would have shot a cat, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have shot a calf, but I was entitled to shoot a calf, a cow or a uh mole that had four points or more on at least one antler and that sounds a little more complicated. But basically, if this I know there's going to be exceptions, but like they're almost either a spike or a legal bull, like if you you know what I mean, yeah, that second year they take a big growth and they almost always will have those four points Right. So that's what I was, that's what I was allowed to shoot and of course you know you always want to shoot a big bull, but in all honesty, any cow or a legal bull I was going to shoot with my ball. There's just no, there's just no doubt in my mind. So the only elk I've ever called in my life, I was hunting, hunting on my own and I mean my buddies were out but I was by myself and they were like a mile away or whatever. And two elk that I called in in my whole life, like I started bugling, or I'm sorry, I started cow calling and man, they started bugling and the bugles, like they were getting closer and closer and it was. It was like to the point, like when they'd be bugle it you'd almost just feel, you'd feel it inside you almost as much as here. It was that loud. Then you started hearing like twigs would break and it was like, oh, I'm gonna, there's animal, I'm gonna see it. Anyways, both, both of the ones I called in right the 20 yards, both turned out to be, uh, spike lawn bulls, which I mean big spikes, like the spikes are probably like 20 inches long or whatever.
Speaker 2:But quite literally the only elk that I wasn't legally permitted to harvest that I called in twice or two times, where, where two, uh, where two spike bulls and and no matter how I I I tried to make it grow points, but there was just no way I could make it anything but a spike. But to call, to call an elk in, it's just like watching those TV shows, you know from somebody from the East coast who you know doesn't hear elk, and it was incredible. I love calling any animal in, like whether it's a moose or anything, or a coyote, right. And when those animals come in, I first started you know the bugles were getting closer and closer and closer and then you know you catch just a glimpse of that tawny colored patch of patch of tawny fur. You'd be like, oh my God, this is going to happen, right, it's exciting. Calling any animal in is exciting, but calling a bull, elk in, even though it was only a spike, is probably as exciting as it gets.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, yeah, no, it'd be an incredible experience, I mean, and that's I think that you know that's a lot of your book and I hope that people listening to this I mean I know I ordered it off Amazon, I know I'm excited to get it Is people listening to this? Will you know? You kind of gave a teaser, a really good teaser, to the book and it's, you know, I'm sure it's a great read and has awesome reviews and people can get pretty good reviews yeah for sure yeah.
Speaker 1:Can experience. You know this through the pages reading it of what you're telling about, and just you know like an average Joe, humble beginnings and just your hunting adventures you know throughout Cause, I mean, it's uh yeah. I think it would be relatable to a lot of people and, um, it just going to be yeah, I'm excited to read it.
Speaker 2:Perfect, thank you.
Speaker 1:Really, yeah Well, I mean, roger, I can't thank you enough for coming on and talking about some of your experiences and about the book, and where can people you know kind of find follow you? I guess, sure.
Speaker 2:Well, the book is, see, the simplest way, way like I have. I have books here in my house, but by the time I get them and ship them to somebody, the cheapest and quickest, easiest way is amazon, right, and just search all this africa, and it'll pop right up and I mean it made their hot new book list and bestseller list or whatever. So it's selling good, right? And now this is. I always get off the subject a little bit and this isn't really, you know, to keep it real like they say. You know, keep it real like they say. This is not going to uh bear, it's not going to hold, you know, over over the time. But there was a period when, uh, my book was, uh, number one and number two was, uh, cameron haynes and number three was meat eater. So for a very brief period in time, I was number one and those two guys were behind me. Yeah, that's amazing. That's not gonna pan out over time. You know what I mean. They're gonna sell many, many, many. But hey, you know, that's legit, that's that's what amazon told me. So, hey, you can't really beat that when you're keeping company with, uh, some fellas that are as well known as those two act. So just go to Amazonca and type in search books or not even just Alders to Africa, and it will pop up and it's like $16.99 and be at your door in a few days.
Speaker 2:The most place, where I'm most active right now, is on a Facebook hunting group and it's called East Coast Outdoors and there's some great stories on there. There's some uh, you know, social media being what it is today, sometimes it gets a little rough and crazy and just sidetracked and all those other descriptions Uh, this is a great bunch of people. It's not huge, rough and crazy and just sidetracked and all those other descriptions. This is a great bunch of people. It's not huge by any mean. There's like just under 3,000 people there. There's been no arguments on it. It's just people telling stories, not a lot of how-to, I mean, if somebody wants to have a tip, but basically it's just telling stories and sharing pictures and stuff like that. And it's east coast outdoors and it's like a super friendly group of people on there and lots of hunting and, well, not really fishing, but lots and lots of good, good hunting stories. Yeah, it's a good, it's a, it's a real good uh uh group.
Speaker 2:I I've run other groups like forums back in the day I had Bears East Adventures, which had like 10,000 members or something like that. I mean forums have gone the wayside, but it seems like you were always being the referee. It was kind of brutal at times, but this is a good group for anybody anywhere, particularly for people in this end of the country if they just want to, you know, tune in and see some hunting stuff, that the same animals that they're hunting, or you know, same species of animals that they're hunting. It's a good, friendly spot. That's where I post most of my daily ramblings of you know what I shot, what I missed, what I should have shot, right that sort of stuff. So it's a good, it's a good fun group, right yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, yeah. No, I don't think you're giving yourself enough credit. I mean the book, like I said, it's got excellent reviews. You know, the bits of stories I've read that are in it are great and in it are great and, uh, I'm looking forward to it. So, roger lewis, boulders to africa.
Speaker 2:I hope everyone you know goes on checks it out. Yep, me too. I I appreciate the opportunity to come on here and talk about it and, like I say, next year, through the winter or whatever, we can talk about lots of other stuff if you ever want to have me back, and you know there's a ton of stuff we can talk about.
Speaker 1:So for sure, for sure. Yeah, thanks again, roger, appreciate it okay, thank you.