Nurturing Sensitive Spirits and Holistic Growth: Insights with Paul Nelhart

Have you ever wondered how parenting can transform not just your child's life but your own? Join us for a heartfelt conversation with Paul Nelhart, a fellow parent and podcaster, as we explore the immense honor and responsibility of guiding our children through life. Paul shares his unique perspective on nurturing sensitive, unique spirits, especially in a homeschooling setting, and the profound personal growth that comes from following one's parenting intuition. Personal anecdotes reveal how our children shape us in ways we never imagined, making this journey both challenging and incredibly rewarding.

We touch on the intriguing concept of star children—empathic beings with heightened awareness and unique soul journeys. These special kids may carry less epigenetic trauma and serve as lightworkers to elevate our planet's vibration. Paul and I discuss the roles of crystal children as healers and teachers, enhancing collective healing. This episode underscores the critical importance of these children in our lives, not just for their growth but for the broader impact on humanity. Through personal stories and broader discussions, we highlight how these remarkable children transform our perspectives and lives.

Finally, we discuss holistic child development, focusing on balancing mind, body, and heart. From the importance of a well-rounded education to the yin-yang of balancing masculine and feminine energies in parenting, we explore how to nurture every aspect of our children's beings. We share practical tips and personal stories about maintaining this delicate balance. Don't miss our wrap-up filled with insights, and stay tuned for the continuation of this enlightening conversation next week. Follow us on Instagram for daily tips and fun ideas to support your parenting journey.

Find Paul Nelhart on Instagram at @intrinsicmindset

Find Carrie Lingenfelter at https://linktr.ee/hearttoheartparentspodcast
You can email Carrie at: info@hearttoheartlife.com

Transcript

Paul: 0:00

I think one of the things that really kind of resonated in the sense with both of us was well, particularly how I view parenting. In a sense it's not that I haven't figured out by any means, but you know we're always doing our best, but it's in a sense of it's really it's an honor to be the parent in that position. You know, I think there's this sense of they come through us but really we, we're developed through them over time. I am who I am because of them. At this stage in my life, you know they're nine and 12. I would be a completely different person without them. So my gratitude for that and that honor that I get to be a dad and get to be that parent and you know that guide is, it's just, it's an immense position to be in.

Carrie: 0:55

Welcome to Heart to Heart Parents. Let's connect with our kids and learn together. I'm Carrie. I was a former teacher and speech therapist. I'm also a parent of two spirited, gifted, highly sensitive kids. I was quickly brought to my knees as a parent when I thought that I would see a rosy lens version of parenting, just as they present on Instagram, but I quickly learned that's not real life. I will provide real life experiences and transform them into moments for connections and change for you to use in your house. Hi there and welcome back to Heart to Heart Parents. I'm Keri. I'm your friendly, intuitive mama here, and I have a wonderful guest that I'm so excited to bring to you guys today, mr Paul.

Carrie: 1:44

Nealhart. Thank you so much, paul. He's a father of two boys. He has a nine-year-old like me, a nine-year-old and a 12-year-old, and he lives in Chicago with his family, including his wife, his boys, and his wife. Kristen homeschools their kiddos, and Paul is a fellow podcaster with his show Intrinsic Mindset, and he's currently doing a series on creativity and the creative source within each of us. So, paul, I am so excited. Creativity is one of the things that everybody used to always say was one of my gifts, so I'm really excited to chat with you today.

Paul: 2:21

I don't think I've shared that with you in the past, but-. We'll tie that in or we'll continue that conversation if we don't get there, but thank you. So here I want to say thank you for just having me on and honestly thank you for just kind of creating this space for parents to explore conversations in whatever form and shape that they kind of transgress and build into. So thank you back.

Carrie: 2:47

Thank you so much. I love that. I love connecting with other parents. I know in certain times in my parenting journey I often felt with these gifted and spirited and very sensitive kiddos I was raising also was myself I felt very isolated as at times not feeling like our other parents going through this as well. So this has been my passion project to connect with others.

Paul: 3:10

Yeah, that's, it's beautiful, beautiful. And you know, I guess where I'll start to is a little bit because we had a chance to talk, you know, prior to this and share a little bit. So I think one of the things that really kind of resonated in the sense with both of us was, well, particularly how I view parenting. In a sense it's not that I have it figured out by any means, but you know we're always doing our best but it's in a sense of it's really it's an honor to be the parent in that position. You know, I think there's this sense of they come through us but really we, we're developed through them over time. I am who I am because of them. At this stage in my life, you know, they're nine and 12. I would be a completely different person without them. So my gratitude for that and that honor that I get to be a dad and get to be that parent and that guide. It's an immense position to be in. I think that and I don't want to assume anything and it's not fair to say that people don't have gratitude and don't have a perspective like that I think we all are very appreciative of our children, but I think that these beautiful. You know, souls come into this world and these vessels, and they're open, and I think there's a real responsibility there to continue to nurture. Nurture that, so I do.

Paul: 4:40

I didn't want to kind of just start with that. There's a. There's much more I want to add to that, but. But again, and what's really neat too is I did want to kind of just start with that. There's much more I want to add to that. But again, and what's really neat too is I did want to make one observation. I love that you bring an intuitive aspect to this as well too. I think there's a lot of courage even in you saying that Not everybody speaks openly, and that's a real powerful aspect, powerful powerful aspect to you know, to be comfortable with.

Carrie: 5:07

For sure. It's definitely a huge piece of my parenting and following my heart, and once I started doing that, I felt like everything in life just shifted for us. It shifted in my kids, it shifted in both my husband and I. It was just the shift in our house when I stopped trying to go by all of the books and all of the things everybody would tell me was the way I was supposed to be in my parenting journey.

Paul: 5:31

All those imposed expectations. You know it's, uh, there's, it's comes in and it's. It's really interesting to watch people kind of benchmark, um, bullet point point and judge and really stack these little individuals, you know, almost against each other. Or you know, in the observation of our families, friends and everything in between, when in all actuality I don't want to say that there isn't good, they're absolutely good there's a great way to kind of keep are we on track and all that stuff. But the true essence of it is a sense of play and exploration.

Paul: 6:16

That's where the true depth of learning happens for children, happens for children and allowing them to go at their own pace in many ways is you'll find here, because I said that we homeschool and what we found too, and other homeschoolers, we found these, we'll call them acceleration points. We'll call is in the sense of maybe by the worldly benchmarks or standards, one of the kids might be behind in math or reading, whatever it is, but then what we have is these really interesting acceleration points. Like my younger boy, he was what we felt. Maybe he's a little behind in the reading and then all of a sudden he's just a reader Like the kid is just like it wasn't clicking, wasn't clicking, and then it takes off and again.

Paul: 7:03

This is just an observation in one aspect. I'm not saying that's the best way for everybody, but I would say you know, exploration and play are very strong pathways for kids and allowing them to grow and explore at their own rates.

Carrie: 7:19

It's so true. I love that mindset so much. We just moved our kids from a traditional school setting into a school that's. It's a charter locally and it focuses on social emotional pieces. So they're looking for everybody's um, their, your strengths and your challenges and they're helping to find those areas and they understand that we're at different rates. So it's not like cookie cutter of what you have to be, and I think we might have ended up in the homeschool journey ourselves if we hadn't had found this perfect situation for our family. That's amazing. Yeah, I completely understand that because my son he had challenges reading for a little while at the very. He was very young when I was starting it with him because he was, he was interested in it, but it took a really long time and then he just took off and soared and now I can't get him out of a book. He's like reading for days, just two solid days of summer break. I'm like don't you want to go outside?

Paul: 8:19

Isn't that amazing? I think too is like, if there's an allowance, um at that, where my boys, they just absorb stuff. It's uh and and again. On this journey is even if you know, if you've been going on a hike, uh identifying some different leaves.

Paul: 8:36

yeah, going back and looking them up and researching them and just exploring the different aspects of I mean, you name it, there's the whole thing, is is growth exploration, and this is actually reminds me too is like name it there's the whole thing is, is, is is growth exploration, and this is actually reminds me too is like you know, there's some kind of if you think about like humanity in a sense, at one point where we're nobads, hunter, gather't, want to just pinch it on nature, but it really that's how we did learn was his experiential aspects.

Paul: 9:09

So it really makes sense in a certain context, and I do say these disclaimers because there is a real point of actually having some structure and some discipline built into it. So there's a real power in that as well too. So definitely, so I don't want to lean too heavy on one or the other.

Carrie: 9:33

I totally get it. My grandmother she used to always says, let's not go to the extremes, like she's always say, like the middle path, carrie, and when I'd go to extreme she'd be like, ah, do not go to the extreme. Yeah, there's, I mean that's the space between.

Paul: 9:44

You know the space between so many things, the. You know the balance of even the right and the brain, those, those hemispheres we talked about. We touched on creativity. You know which is predominantly thought to be the right brain, the logic. You know the and with yeah, I had a point in there too with that space between is not going too manic, not going too one-sided on it or too heavy, leaning too heavy in the logic, leaning too heavy in the imagination, because you can get lost in either one.

Carrie: 10:19

It's true.

Paul: 10:20

So it's, you know it's a couple of different things with that too is I was going to say, cause you brought up your grandmother. Now I actually you know you brought up a point with her, and may I ask you a question, cause I know this is your show, because you were talking about she was very open, yeah, and, and she cause this was prior to to us. So I I, if you feel free to add to this as totally, but did she ever, did you guys ever kind of explore, maybe you did more recently? Um, really like star children, indigo, crystal, rainbow children yeah, so she, yeah, she, um.

Carrie: 11:03

So my grandmother was a special ed teacher, which I didn't tell you, this piece of the puzzle but she was raised in Argentina and so she had a more open mindset. She was raised, uh, with a holistic mindset and when she came to Los Angeles and she taught for 32 years special ed, she would talk about the indigo children. She was very passionate about these kids and she said and it's similar to what I refer to my kids as spirited, gifted, highly sensitive, coming to earth and just being alert. My son was born with these open, bright blue eyes and he looked right at me when they laid him on my chest. He looked right at me and I was like whoa, my world was rocked. And then he looked. My husband said he's beautiful Carrie, and he looked over at my husband and my husband's like what?

Paul: 11:54

Look at this guy. So there's a depth of understanding there. It was just a real.

Carrie: 11:58

Oh yeah. It was like just heart to heart connection, Like woo, you are going to run me ragged. No, I'm just kidding.

Paul: 12:05

Yeah, for sure.

Paul: 12:07

For sure, that's what's going to give you a run for your money. Yeah, and that's a. So there's, I would say there's, a couple of aspects with this. One is there's uh, what people would consider these, these children, as is, and we tend to put things in boxes or, you know, bullet points, labeling. Labeling is very heavy, which is actually something I'd like to talk to you about too, but we'll get back to that.

Paul: 12:29

Sure, and you know, the out of the after the 1960s is free love and you know spirit exploration and some Western people kind of going to India and bringing back some of the Eastern cultures and things like that too. You know this is amalgamation. So you know, I think some of these, you know some of these learnings, some of this documentation there's a lot of authors that explored this, these children's star children, you know Dorian virtue put some stuff out, and I think I think one thing that happens too is, as humans, we like to categorize and we like to over define things, but I think there's just some of it too is just there's a true depth, and this is, I think you have the kids that are empathic. Some of you know people will talk about ESP and they'll kind of go a little bit deep into that, but there there is something to be that these, these children, are very aware, very hyper aware. Some of the qualities even, are very similar and aligned.

Paul: 13:24

You'll hear about what the ADHD is and so, and it's not that that's they're misdiagnosed, it's just that there's there's a deep, there's a deep understanding and I would say some, at some level, I personally feel, and this is just as a belief pattern, so don't you not saying you agree or disagree with it? But I think some, some souls that these children they're coming as as lightworkers, teachers, reflections to, and the belief is is that to raise the vibration of this planet, this, this earth plane, this dimension, to help us evolve, to help us grow. And, and personally I feel that some of these classifications of children is, I would call it like a soul absorption, in the sense that it's the depth of their souls and, in some cases, a lack of epigenetic. You know traumas that have been carried on through DNA, you know pains that many of us have carried on to try to go through those karmic healings over through lifetimes.

Paul: 14:30

And again this is a belief pattern. I'm not saying that anybody on here listening has to pass the Sure.

Carrie: 14:35

Sure.

Paul: 14:36

Is that, um? So you know these children, you know they might come in with a well, it's not that it's a shallow uh, you know soul journey, but they're not absorbing some of the traumas that some of us, some of the other people that are on this planet are, you know that have back. You know, like Bruce Lipton would talk about this, about, you know, 30 plus years ago, he would teach about it. But it's that, that epigenetic trauma markers that would come through the DNA and it could be 15 to 20 generations of trauma and people don't know. So you'll hear, you'll hear people, even kids, say that like I've, you know I'm feeling upset or anxious and it doesn't feel like it's me.

Paul: 15:25

So some of this is where is it coming from, um? And and what's what's interesting too, is that, like you know, all those generational it's not that long ago too. It's like I think people really distance themselves. Um, and I'm going to get to a point. One little sidebar is actually the math on it. So if you, if you were to take, like, the rule of 25, it meaning that, like, so, say your grant, your mother had you at 25, for grandmother 25, honestly, that's for, that's for women, a hundred years ago. So you're talking about, say, like the time of Rome and Christ and 2000 years ago it's really only 80,.

Carrie: 16:08

You know, 80 generations.

Paul: 16:09

So, you know, go back like 15, 20 generations, you're talking hundreds of years. It sounds like a lot but it's really not. So you know some of these, these pains that we're kind of working through and um. But to coming back to these star children, these, these crystalline and the crystal with the healing and, uh, the teaching, uh, there's, you'll see some of them, like you, I love that story about your your son just came in with these big, beautiful, deep eyes.

Paul: 16:35

You know those blue eyes, and you just felt and saw the depth of, of, of that soul, um, their deep understanding and awareness, yeah, absolutely beautiful. Uh. So you know our more and more of them are coming in to teach, um, to carry on that light, maybe even absorb some of the pain or be here as a mirror to reflect so that we can heal. And it's not just that they're here for each of us, they're here for themselves as well, but in their own soul journey. So I don't want to go too far on that, but I cause I started with, actually, your grandmother and you mentioned that she was very in tune with the conceptual think, you know, thought process on it. So and I just completely commandeered I do have a little more to add, but I wanted to let you actually dive in if you had a little bit of thoughts or you know things you've explored on this, on the subject.

Carrie: 17:26

Yeah, I love. Yeah, I love talking about star children and indigo children. Just the idea. It's an interesting concept to me. And my grandmother she did give me an indigo child book years ago when I became a teacher. She was like you have to read this, this is part of your teaching experience and when you're teaching, you need to teach the whole child. You need to teach the mental, the physical, the emotional, social, like school is based in this tiny, tiny little sphere. You need, or this tiny little, you know, piece of curriculum. You need to think about all of the children of curriculum. You need to think about all of the children, all of the pieces.

Carrie: 18:05

And it's it's been so powerful to have that in my pocket because I'm looking at my children and I go to these. I used to go to the school meetings and they would just talk about, like here, here's their grades on this, here's where they are in this there's, you know, and at the new school they're like my child is presenting to to me. They're presenting everything they're learning. They're presenting where they yeah, the things they love, the things they've grown in. They're showing me here was me earlier, here is me now, and you can see the empowerment in in their bodies, even a six-year-old right, a little one in kindergarten, like here's what I wrote, mom. And then there's this piece that they hand to the sheet of social emotional. Here's my friends, here's who I play with at recess, here's what we love to do in class, and it's just.

Carrie: 18:55

And then they have goals, even of what they want to achieve. And so there's, it's just like wow, there is to achieve. And so there's, it's just like wow, there is, we're changing. Maybe it's slow, maybe it's a slow progress, but this is what my grandmother was hoping to see in these kids and hoping to see in our world. And I definitely agree with you that they are coming and they are teaching us. Because, oh my gosh, as much as I have learned in nine years, I'm like what am I going to learn in nine more years? And, oh man, I only got 10 more years with you, luckily we held you back for a year before you get to go.

Carrie: 19:27

But yeah, it's, it's like they are teaching us. We are learning, so much you know it's.

Paul: 19:33

it's really neat that you found the school because, um and you brought up the emotional aspect of this a number of times.

Paul: 19:39

Um, because that's so much of what it's, two things on that. One is that it really, things are really siloed. People do tend to silo aspects of our life and either A if they categorize us, or we or them, or whatever it is, it's viewed as this entirety, but it's not viewed as an entirety. It's viewed as it's, it's judged based on a segment. So what you're talking about is this holistic, and the aspect of the sharing between the emotional and intellect and their ability to spiritual, to spiritual Absolutely.

Carrie: 20:13

I didn't mention that one, but problem.

Paul: 20:15

No, but it is, but it's. It's their ability to problem solve or figure out pattern recognition, and how to navigate that through communication, through interaction with other people, and that's really. I mean, that's what this is, that's. I'll be just, I'll be frank. That's what it's supposed to be, that's what it's meant, that's how it's meant to be, and I know that so many times in our life we get segmented or or again judged on something and there's, or placed at a which which is, which is funny, is a level, which is a word that I don't really.

Paul: 20:49

I don't want to say that I don't care for a level, because I feel like there's a totality when you say there's a level because you could be advanced in a certain aspect of your life and deficient or behind in another, and you know it's a level, places you in a bucket. So it's more of that location, of where you're at with these different aspects of your development. And we do this as adults, I mean, we are learning all the time. Children in some ways even have an advantage because they don't have all the you know being pulled through the ringers for so many years and different and carried those you know being pulled through the ringers for so many years and different uh and and carried those, uh, you know those things through there's. There's also something, too, um, that I kind of think of and I know, are you familiar with the Pygmalion effect?

Paul: 21:32

or what that, what that is the Pygmalion effect is basically it's the quick and the quick version of it was. There were studies done and it's the implied name or implied meaning that you place on somebody else that that may, they may not even know. So what it was was. The study was done in in a teaching situation. So teachers were given, so all the kids. It's actually maniacal, it's actually a little bit diabolical, but I'll tell you the quick story of it. But the study was done, they gave all these kids the same test and regardless of how they really rank, there was no ranking system. They gave the teacher the results and they said this child does not I don't remember what it was does not have the ability to advance quickly. This child is very gifted. So they basically placed some thought into the teachers and the teacher by function. Those children that were labeled as lesser than we'll say did not perform. They did not develop at those rates.

Paul: 22:36

But it carries on in life too. So if somebody were to label you at work or in a school situation or in a group setting um, as behind in a certain aspect, then people act differently. So when you're not, and then now what is is, this is goes back into that. I would say that, that poignant siloing, uh, when you're not looking at somebody holistically, you're segmenting them and you're judging them on the basis of one thing, one little thing they're deficient in, but their response, the surrounding response, has a has a very big impact in it, and that's again is I'm kind of expanding on that Pygmalion effect, but it's just a larger social dynamic of how people can get kind of pigeonholed into into some, into an aspect. But I'm sure, as a, you have teaching, you have a teaching background, yeah, yeah, yeah. So you know, you, I don't want to assume anything but or in a work situation, I've heard people talk poorly about somebody else and all of a sudden everybody's kind of acting different around that person and that person in response becomes that, that deficient, uh, lesser than person, because you know the responding thing. So where I'm going with that is is really I'm going to go back to where your teaching is.

Paul: 23:53

Or with our homeschooling is, in that holistic environment you're leaving space for growth and gapping. Um, that sometimes weren't. Maybe we weren't all given that opportunity in our path. I know that as a young child in grade school I was put in like the remedial classes and I never figured out why. I never felt like I was behind. But then what happened? Is it just stuck with me, it just carried on.

Paul: 24:20

So then, you're always in that class and the teachers and so. So, from those learning aspects, I always felt like, felt like I was behind, but I didn't. I remember being young and feeling like I'm, I'm being labeled as behind, but I never felt behind, but I was being told I was behind. So it was a very interesting dynamic in that sense. So you have that weight on you. So when you, if you can not have those weights and you're working through the emotional communication, the logic and and bridging those and allowing them to fill in the entirety in those spaces, we're all going to have deficiencies, we're all going to have those balances that take a little bit of time.

Carrie: 24:59

Yeah.

Paul: 24:59

So it's, it's so powerful, I totally just I just grabbed the mic and ran. I love it. No, I think that's so important.

Carrie: 25:08

My, my son was never really in a random story that goes with it, but he is almost like we search sometimes for those labels when we're little like where am I at, where do I fit in? Mom?

Paul: 25:22

What are my people?

Carrie: 25:24

Yeah, he. I mean he started playing soccer a year ago. He played soccer and it wasn't really his jam. He was just there to socialize like his mom. Like that's how I was when I played sports too, and someone once called him a grass picker, and that was true he was. He was picking the flowers. Somebody would fall. He would go over, like are you okay? And it's in the middle of the game, Like let me help you up, let's brush you off, let's make sure you're all right. So he knew that. He said sports aren't really my jam. I'm like whatever you like, bud, let's try something else. What do you want to try? But he latched onto this piece. He got tagged as gifted in his old school. So he would go to this gifted class where he got to do some science minded things that he loved. So then when he's in his new school, he's like wait, mom, do they know I'm gifted, they're not pulling me out for gift G and T? And that is like his identity in his mind.

Carrie: 26:15

And my husband and I are like whoa, whoa, let's step back a few paces. How?

Carrie: 26:19

do we yes, we don't want to label you. In your mind, I don't want you to be labeled. That's why I don't. I mean, he does have certain labels that he's been given from medical sides and I never discussed those. I don't. I say our brain works in different ways. We're all different. Those are some of the pieces that we use to describe it, but it's it's even hard to describe it without labeling. Right? You're still trying to not implant that as there. I was implanted as being shy when I was little, so I always thought I'm really shy, I can't talk, I'm just going to sit here, and then I got anxious because I'm shy, I can't, so you almost have to remind yourself.

Paul: 27:00

You're like wait a second, I better not step out too too fast, too loud, cause I'm that shy person. So we hold on a second here, let's, you know, let's think about this and then fast forward. And now all you're doing is talking. You're at, you know, overtly, putting yourself out there on a podcast.

Carrie: 27:18

Yes, all the time I'm like, well, I'm going to do it. It's going to be great. I'm going to change this identity. We're going to reprogram this brain. You know neuroplasticity. We're going to start firing some new signals in here and heal while we're doing it Right. We're healing that piece of us, and so I, my husband and I always joke. We know our kids are going to go to counseling one day because of some things that we've done. We're just trying to reduce the amount they have to go Like. We know we're not perfect.

Paul: 27:48

I'm trying to strengthen them in so many aspects. It's going to carry them, but they're going to. Yeah, I'm going to mess them up over here Some way. Some shape and form for sure.

Paul: 28:08

Something, something that one time I lost my patience, maybe a couple of times. You know, we're just, we're just trying to keep, keep human, I know, and it is. It is funny it's just a sidebar story too is they do remember interesting things too. It was like there were. There was one time we're on vacation, my younger boy. I kept saying to the boys I'm like hold on, hold on, don't do this, don't grab this. It was like one of those things we were trying to get ready. We had all the you know the bags and everything. And then it was like my younger mom kept messing with something and a water bottle fell and I was like oh, come on, guys, you know, and and he brings it up to this day like all the water bottle.

Paul: 28:31

And it was just about that little water bottle and I'm like he's going to be like 45 years old someday, telling some therapists how his dad yelled at him about a water bottle that fell like and that's not a big deal, it's just like yes, anyway, sorry, I completely digress and yeah, and I think you know really what's. What's interesting here is, I think, the holistic thing is kind of coming on our conversation, which I absolutely love, and there was another kind of a I'll call it a mindset pattern that we had talked about. If I, if I may, it was kind of the mind bodies, yeah.

Carrie: 29:08

I love it. Yes, please.

Paul: 29:10

Yeah, so tell us tell us about it.

Paul: 29:14

So we uh, prior to this, we're talking about different aspects and really just about children and about the holistic and the understanding of the greater. And one thing that in our conversation that we're kind of coming up between you and I I'm kind of telling this to your audience is is that we were talking about the different aspects of, of cause, one creativity, and we were talking about the left brain, right brain, in the in between, and I was kind of sharing with you, I really I kind of have a vision of, or a vision of a thought process on, our bodies. So, in a comparison to the yin yang, you know that light, dark aspect, dark aspects, when people call it the masculine, the feminine energies, and I think it from a. Then there's our theoretical bodies. Are, you know, those auric bodies in the physical body? I really view there's the body as three physical mindsets and you know there's our brain, then there's our heart and then there's our what we'll call our stomach region and those organs region and those organs, and there's a correlation that I personally like to make with that is kind of that along the lines of the yin-yang, the masculine and everything.

Paul: 30:28

So if you think about it in a sense, there's your logical brain, which could be a big sky, father sky, and then there's your kind of the earthly matter, which would be your stomach and the stomach brain, which would be the mother earth in the comparison. So the creation is done in there. The instinct is there, like if you have a gut instinct on somebody, you're feeling it in your stomach, you have butterflies in your stomach. Those are real, material world things, those are in that gut region. And then the two, the father sky, that's your expression, that's your voice, it's where you're receiving information and it's a real, it's a different visceral experience through those receptors and then both of those minds they meet.

Paul: 31:15

The space between is that heart is really where your heart is and if you're really in a little bit, we'll call it, I'll say unbalanced, but that doesn't feel right. But if you're a little bit too in your head or you're a little bit too into your let's call it into the material world, a lot of times that can put a strain into that heart, heart, mind as well too, where it can disrupt those. You know how we approach, how we receive the world, not just how we show up in the world but also how. What my memory about it was is kind of that balance and holistic look and this and this view on the body. It feels intuitively right to me and that's why I appreciate you having a place to share these, this aspect of kind of an outlook on it.

Carrie: 32:13

Yeah, I love that. Yes, I have a question for you. So I was actually speaking with another mom the other day and we were talking about when we first had our kids. We were both feeling so overwhelmed with having to, you know, follow, follow their routine or their schedule, and feed them and burp them and all of these different things. And she had said she got into the masculine energy of herself because she had these routines, schedules, all these pieces and you have to remember the bottle, you have to remember the wipes, you have to all the things Right. So she said she was in this masculine energy and we both agreed we had felt that and now, as we were in this era, this phase of motherhood, and we can reclaim more of our womanhood and our femininity again, and so it makes me think of this piece. So I would love to hear about that, If you have any ideas.

Paul: 33:12

Yeah, so, yeah, so I won't reiterate what I was going to say too. So the masculine in the sky. And then there's the earth and the matter, and you know if you really think about that, because everybody talks about the mother earth and coming back to earth and taking care of mother earth, but we can't negate the father sky as well. There's a, there's a real place for it. It's a balance.

Carrie: 33:31

In some ways.

Paul: 33:32

I will say this and maybe somebody will criticize me for it, but I kind of wish it. You know, some of the energies, the yin yang, the positive, negative things like that, I almost wish it it wasn't didn't have the label of the masculine, feminine, in a way, because we all embody this and I will come back to your what we were talking, where we started this, but because you're going to have women that are in that assertive mode where you need to embody that, but we do it in a daily, we balance these things. But you're also going to have fathers that are very I hate to use the word doting, but very nurturing and very, you know, just just loving and coddling, and really you know nesting, so which, even in two, but it's some of that stuff is obviously people associated with the fight and flight too as well, but those are those manic ends of that.

Paul: 34:22

And you don't need to go to those manic ends. It's really when we have the balance within that heart space and the space between. But those assertion points, that and I say the insertion points, because that masculine energy, where you need to embody, I need to be in action. Right now I can't take it, this isn't the time to meditate on it, this isn't the time to be passive on it. And those aren't, those aren't necessarily female, male, they're, you know, it's the masculine, the feminine, into those, just really embodying those energies. So I think you know, because you really get into, I'm going to, you know this is going to sound a little off, but you know the going too far in the masculine it's coming to. Sometimes it's just too it's, it's a too logical state, and then you can get lost in the systemizations, you know, but you do have men predominantly that will fall into that, where it's like I need the, I need the one, two, three logical method to getting through this. I'm not here to feel my way through it. Give me the engineering steps to.

Paul: 35:28

You know, get work through these, these problems, and then, and then the feminine side of that or you know, women tend to lean into this, they'll be able to feel their way through an environment and um, and so I I'm not really answering your question specifically, but I think it's really more of the embodiment of of those two energies, uh, that come into play stronger than specifically um the male, female, and I don't mean to distance it, but we're all able to do that because even you know, like I said, like the men, you know that male energy, but the other side of that too, even with the like, a feminine energy would be the nesting, but you could almost get into a smothering phase where it's just too much ownership for it and there's to the point where, not a suffocation of it, but, um, you know, there's, it's, it's not allowing the growth and it's not allowing the assertion of the world, you know so you know, you can have these, those manics on either that manic um energy on either side yes, I've read a lot about the the over like the over protection and not letting our children to experience failure, to get hurt, these little pieces that they have to build up.

Carrie: 36:45

Now it's like they called it, the.

Paul: 36:47

There was the helicopter parent and then there was, like the new era of the helicopter parent, which was like the extra vigilant helicopter, super helicopter parent so, and I think, too, some of that stuff is those, those we personally have, things that I think the idea is it's not all meant, it's not meant in in bad to be bad, it's. It's like hey, I've lived x number of years, I've experienced this. I'm just trying to accelerate and fast track it.

Paul: 37:15

But yeah there's I'm not fast track there's things that would go back to where you were talking about the exploration of the whole, of the feeling, the visceral of touching the. You know all those kinetic points and you they have, kids have to experience that and and these are it's, it's I'm reminded too of, like Joseph Campbell, the hero's journey and stuff like that. You know there's the essence of with the doting and the nesting and the over. You know those are the tales of the go out and slay the dragon. That's the freedom of the mother, energy of the, of the binding of of the. You know the, the over responsibility and that breaking of the freedoms and stuff like that. And I know that's a odd tie-in, but it's those aspects of our brains and the storytelling. But yeah, there's. You know I could keep going on with that and I just think I'm going to keep going back to that. Where is that balance?

Paul: 38:16

But the new level is an interesting one because I'm trying to think very quickly on it. And where does that come from? I mean, in the parent. I mean you're talking about deep fears of loss or you know the control, and that's going to come from fear, that's going to come from not understanding the control, and that's going to come from fear, that's going to come from not understanding. And so where do you release that or what you know?

Paul: 38:43

You can't tell a parent who does that. You can't. You're not going to change them, but I think in their own way there's going to be a breaking of freedom and that's really that's where I was talking about that fable there's going to be some type of breaking of freedom. This child is going to have awareness, you know, into that, into that arena. So there is that sense of when we talk about helicopter parents or doting over heavily or maybe controlling the environment, and a lot of that stuff is is come out of our own, our own personal pains of of the lessons that we have learned and and wanting to taking we, you know, we, we feel like we took the burden on for them.

Paul: 39:21

So some of them want to accelerate their learning process and some of those things can't be skipped. So, but there's, there's a sense that it comes out of of love, it comes out of endearing quality. But our interpretive view is sometimes, I think, we kind of encapsulate and close the environment, try to close the environment around them, to put that bubble, you know, the proverbial bubble wrap around them, and that can come off a little bit too heavy, I think, in in many cases. Um, you know that some parents are out of love, are going to truly condense the surroundings emotionally, mentally and, you know, in some level physical of, you know, maybe not expanding or letting them go outside or explore, you know, do some exploration.

Carrie: 40:07

Right. I totally agree with that. I think there are things that they are made to experience in their lives. There are things that are made to. If I didn't have certain experiences happen to me in my life, I wouldn't be where I am today. If somebody had protected me from having certain experiences that really you know failures that I have made that bring me to making this podcast If I hadn't experienced failures in certain areas, I wouldn't be here today. So when we're overprotecting, we're rejecting those experiences for our kids in certain ways and we're not talking about obvious things like my son cut his hand on a cup one time when he was a little kid and I wish I could go back and overprotect in that moment. We're talking about right like these spiritual pieces.

Paul: 40:59

Yeah, those truly transgressions of the learning process of something and trying to kind of fast forward, accelerate it, jump to the line and so we'll bring it to the end and we'll be like this is going to happen because of X, y, z is going to happen because of X, y, z and and obviously clearly in a safe and relative environment.

Paul: 41:22

If they were, you know we're allowing them to see that for themselves and experience them for themselves. They don't really grasp it without the experiential gap, so you know. So when we take this, you know, when there's something that's deep in the material world or we have and we really want to bring it into kind of the warmth and the womb of the of the protective environment, and you're they're not going to find, they're not going to find the total growth they're going to, we're going to tell them what the end result's going to be. Yes, yes.

Paul: 41:56

They're not going to understand how they got. And that's the end result's going to be yes, yes, but they're not going to understand how they got. And then some of that stuff is, it's a little bit of that straight line thinking in the sense of we're teaching them in reverse. So we experienced this, this is what happened, here's the results. And now there's this gap and you're like, just trust me, and um, they're going to be, they're going to be stronger for those allowances, so, but it's hard, for, as a parent, I don't want to let go, I want to just be like don't do that. And just what's the alternative? You know, so controlling in the environment, so, and some of that's out of fear, so it's so, it's based. Is that a fear-based system?

Carrie: 42:32

and you don't want to go down that rabbit hole because that's another.

Paul: 42:35

It's yeah it's true.

Carrie: 42:36

There's another rabbit hole, and I just thought of something from the educational world that, um, I learned when I was learning how to be a teacher and so much of it is ingrained in our generation, in our era of how we learned in school, which was not project-based learning. We, we sat in a chair and we were told this is the information, here's all of the information. You're going to learn all this and memorize it. You're not going to experience it when we're finding out now that children receive and they really understand and grasp information when they experience it with hands-on learning, project-based learning. So if we're telling them how to experience the world and we're trying to overprotect them and they're not going through the experience themselves, are they really going to learn it? So that just popped into my head.

Paul: 43:24

That point, it's just one thing is like here's the date 1776. You know, remember that date, yep, and not understanding why. The impact or what the understanding of what that waypoint is, yes, through the navigation of learning that and their ability to learn, that is going to give them also the confidence to explore and to expand and if you can continue to continue to stifle in that window, there might be a point where they just stop trying to extend themselves, and maybe they just seek that end.

Paul: 44:01

Answer without the, without the gap and understanding of exploration and play, which we talked about before too.

Carrie: 44:09

Yes, yes, and keeping it fun. And we're just when we, when we have fun and we feel so secure, we learn so much better too, and it just it's this amazing cycle that continues for kids. So thank you so much, paul.

Paul: 44:23

It's been so much fun chatting today and I can't wait, I'm excited.

Carrie: 44:27

We had so much fun today that we're going to break it up into two and we have you coming back next week, right, yep?

Paul: 44:33

Perfect, yeah, absolutely All right, thanks. So again, have a great one, paul.

Carrie: 44:38

We appreciate it. If there's a parent that you think this could resonate with, please be sure to share it with them, so we can all benefit from each other. Follow Heart to Heart Parents Podcast on Instagram for daily fun ideas and tips. Happy week.