The Steep Stuff Podcast
Jackson Cole | Mountain Mastery, From the Skyrunning World Series to FKT Triumphs
Join the thrill as Jackson Cole, a La Sportiva teammate and mountain running powerhouse, sits across from me, James Lauriello, revealing the highs and challenges of his career. From his exhilarating victory at the Minotaur Sky Race to a record-smashing Ten Mile Traverse FKT in Colorado, Jackson's tales are bound to ignite the trail community's excitement. We delve into his transformative journey, which led him from New Zealand's rugged terrains to the majestic Sangre De Cristo mountains, rekindling his love for running. It's not just about the victories, though; we also peer into Jackson's strategies for the upcoming 2024 season, uncovering the parallels between our philosophies, all while reflecting on the synergy that has shaped our endurance.
As Jackson reflects on his move to Missoula, we uncover the city's magnetic pull for athletes and the unexpected benefits it brings to training regimes. We're talking high-caliber competition in local races, and the strategic importance of endurance for the season's more grueling runs. The Missoula community, with figures like Adam Peterman and Jeff Mogavero have been an inspiring force for Jackson, honing his approach to training. We even take a step back to appreciate Jackson's under-the-radar yet outstanding 2023 season, as he carved his trail across European sky races, setting the stage for a deep dive into his latest athletic achievements.
Finally, we venture beyond the domestic realm and into the heart of international competition, where Jackson shares insights on the distinct nature of events like Matterhorn Ultraks and the technical training critical for excelling in sky races. The conversation then shifts gears towards the fascinating differences between the Golden Trail Series' fast courses and sky running's rugged mountaineering-style challenges. We wrap up by celebrating the emerging young talents in the sport and paying homage to the legends who continue to inspire athletes across the globe. So, lace up your trail shoes and prepare to be inspired by the raw, exhilarating experiences of an elite athlete who breathes passion into the world of mountain running and endurance sports.
Jackson Cole - IG - @jayrcolee
Join the thrill as Jackson Cole, a La Sportiva teammate and mountain running powerhouse, sits across from me, James Lauriello, revealing the highs and challenges of his career. From his exhilarating victory at the Minotaur Sky Race to a record-smashing Ten Mile Traverse FKT in Colorado, Jackson's tales are bound to ignite the trail community's excitement. We delve into his transformative journey, which led him from New Zealand's rugged terrains to the majestic Sangre De Cristo mountains, rekindling his love for running. It's not just about the victories, though; we also peer into Jackson's strategies for the upcoming 2024 season, uncovering the parallels between our philosophies, all while reflecting on the synergy that has shaped our endurance.
As Jackson reflects on his move to Missoula, we uncover the city's magnetic pull for athletes and the unexpected benefits it brings to training regimes. We're talking high-caliber competition in local races, and the strategic importance of endurance for the season's more grueling runs. The Missoula community, with figures like Adam Peterman and Jeff Mogavero have been an inspiring force for Jackson, honing his approach to training. We even take a step back to appreciate Jackson's under-the-radar yet outstanding 2023 season, as he carved his trail across European sky races, setting the stage for a deep dive into his latest athletic achievements.
Finally, we venture beyond the domestic realm and into the heart of international competition, where Jackson shares insights on the distinct nature of events like Matterhorn Ultraks and the technical training critical for excelling in sky races. The conversation then shifts gears towards the fascinating differences between the Golden Trail Series' fast courses and sky running's rugged mountaineering-style challenges. We wrap up by celebrating the emerging young talents in the sport and paying homage to the legends who continue to inspire athletes across the globe. So, lace up your trail shoes and prepare to be inspired by the raw, exhilarating experiences of an elite athlete who breathes passion into the world of mountain running and endurance sports.
Jackson Cole - IG - @jayrcolee
Hey guys, welcome back to the steep stuff podcast. I'm your host, james Lariolo, and I've got a really special one for you for episode seven my last sportiva mountain running teammate, jackson Cole. Jackson is, I mean, there's not too many other words to say it other than an absolute killer. He is such a beast of an athlete and I was really excited to have him on the podcast. We get into a lot of really fun things. We talk about his 2023 overall win at the meet, the Minotaur Sky Race.
Speaker 1:We talk about his 2023 season overall racing, a bunch of different races in the Sky Running Series. We kind of broke down the Minotaur Race. We talked about Old Trax Extreme, we talked about the final and, yeah, it was a blast. We also get into his 10 mile traverse fkt, which I think for you local coloradans I think your guys are going to get pretty stoked on that one. I think there's a lot of interesting uh, little little juicy nuggets to extract from that. And the last but not least, we talk about his 2024 season and we talk about some training parallels as well. Jackson is an absolute professional and in every which of the way, he's just, he's humble, he's competitive. He's everything that I am interested in as an athlete that I look up to him in a lot of ways. So guys, get ready for episode seven. This is an absolute favorite one of mine, jackson Cole. It's time, ladies and gentlemen, we are live. How was that?
Speaker 2:It was interesting. It was. Schema is pretty new for me.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Very new for me, but I was just doing it with an old, a really good friend of mine, noelle. We went to college together and, okay, she really wanted to do it and I was like I was like sort of getting into skiing last year and then this year being up in montana helped a lot, so I was like confident that I could at least finish the grand traverse without, yeah, dying so you were saying to me so this year they changed the, they changed the course.
Speaker 1:So instead of going to aspen from Crested Butte, it just kind of went around Mount Crested Butte and then out right, or something like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we sort of took the normal course close to Star Pass and then we had to flip it Sweet. The avalanche conditions were too dangerous and I think there were like 400 races. Oh wow, getting 400 people into the backcountry. It's a logistical nightmare races. So oh wow, getting 400 people into the backcountry, it's a logistical avalanche risk it's all.
Speaker 2:So they made the right call, yeah, and they still had a good time, but it was like a little challenging motivation wise to like. Like knowing you're going to aspen is one thing and that's pretty motivating. Yeah, having to come back to chrissy butte towards the last like couple hours, I was like in the suffer zone how many hours did you do? I was like 10 and a half hours oh it's a long day out.
Speaker 2:We weren't, I mean like it's still like 40 miles right, it was like 33, 34 miles. Okay, my friend Noelle, she's on like powder skis. We weren't exactly Okay Lightweight schema racing it or anything like that. So yeah, but it was really fun yeah.
Speaker 1:Cool man Like. I said before we got on, I had so much to unpack here and talk to you about, so let's dive into the first thing. Let's introduce you. I'd say that's probably important. Jackson Cole, feel free to tell us a little bit about yourself, we'll dive into it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, jackson Cole, born and raised in New Zealand, moved to the US in 2010, and then ended up going to college in colorado at adam state university, um in 2014 and, uh, ran, I was like on the cross country track and field team there and, um, I think kind of like lost the love for it a little bit. But in the san luis valley, where alamos is surrounded by the san juans yeah and especially the sangre to christos and uh, it like just so totally inspired me.
Speaker 2:So now then I got into mountain running in like 2017 and we can get into that as much as you want, but yeah, yeah, we'll dive into that, dude, I love this.
Speaker 1:Like I feel like I shouldn't talk about this on the podcast because I don't want the the word to get out as crazy, but like I just feel like the sun grays are so slept on.
Speaker 2:I love, oh, dude love that range yeah, it's unreal. I mean it's like if you're into um, a little bit of scrambling, some more technical climbing, the sangres are like maybe the best in the state because the rock is really good. Oh yeah, it's really good conglomerate rock in the criss stones and then a bit more like I think it's like granite in the blanca group. But, um, like you do a lot of scrambling in maybe the, the elk range or, uh, the sand wants like the rock is pretty crap so yeah being in the sun grays is nice.
Speaker 1:It's a little like less terrifying I love and the conglomerate is so. Not like on the needle, for example, like I just I can't wait to get back on the needle year, but just there's so many good holds and it's just such a fun, it's fun, it's just fun. Yeah, I love it, yeah.
Speaker 2:It's great and I felt like it was perfect. Training training in the sun grays, for, like European sky races, seem to correlate really well for sure, cause you can kind of like I would train a lot outside of They'd fill in Buena Vista slide area, the Arkansas river Valley, and I feel like if you try to go off trail on any of those 14 years you're going to get like yelled at by someone but in the sun grays.
Speaker 2:it's kind of like open game. You can just do whatever you want. It's sort of like freedom of the Hills. Yeah, oh, it's awesome.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So you popped on my radar kind of a while back for two reasons. One was from your FK on blanca, which I just was totally like I, I, you know I moved here from florida years and you know, probably like four or five years ago, and I was just some kid, you know, researching stuff on the internet and I saw this uh, I came across your, you know, your fkt on blanca. And then the second thing was was the first race I actually did was the sangra cristo 50k? Oh, no way, yeah, which you, I think you sold the course record on oh, I think they changed the course since I've done it have you yeah I think I want to say I could be getting this totally wrong, but I think david hedges, oh, does he have?
Speaker 1:I knew he might have a course record the new course.
Speaker 2:Record I I can't really remember but I think they changed the course a little bit, did they yeah, so I created yeah I came out that 50 K cause I was a flat lander dude.
Speaker 1:I lived at sea level in Florida. I had no idea what vert was. It was my first race, wound up walking it in, and then I came back the next year and I uh won the 27 K and then came back, follow subsequent years and did the 14 K. So I feel like I've done it all and never uh kind of came back to the 50 K to get that done.
Speaker 1:so it's on my list of things eventually to get yeah back to um, but yeah, it's kind of funny how you popped on my radar with that yeah, yeah so we can fast forward to now and kind of get into um.
Speaker 1:Now that you know everybody hasn't have has an idea of who you are and everything, let's kind of like jump into what you've been doing this off season, um, and then we can even take it further back, we can jump into your 2023 season as well, because that's something I don't want to. I don't want to miss um. So, dude, yeah, this off season we talked a little bit about skiing and what you've been doing with skimo, so why don't you dive a little bit into that? I know you've been training with, like, adam peterman. We can kind of get into that. Um've been in Missoula, montana.
Speaker 2:And the off-season for me, it's really important for me to just take a step back from running. This year in Montana was a pretty terrible snow year, so I didn't ski as much as I had wanted to, but that was the main focus to to ski as much as possible, um, or like skin uphill, ski down, um.
Speaker 1:I see you still getting laps on Sentinel though.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, that's the thing. So I was like, well, I can still go up Sentinel and get a lot of vert doing that, um. So I ended up running a lot more this off season than I probably would have liked to, but at the end of the day it's like still perfect training and I just sort of like dialed down the intensity a little bit. Uh, and then I got a, got like a um zwift setup, like a wahoo trainer yeah I've been biking a ton this winter, uh, which has been interesting too.
Speaker 2:It's like cycling and, uh, especially schema racing. It's like totally kicking my ass, but it's been good to, like, try something new.
Speaker 1:Yeah, um, so this is your first year doing a lot of schema stuff like that first year doing schema races.
Speaker 2:Last year was my first year skiing. Okay, and what?
Speaker 1:do you think? Do you think there's like solid translation there for running?
Speaker 2:I, yeah, I think, um, you know, the thing in the winter that I think is really important is to get this huge base of training in. With Schemo it makes a lot of sense. Same with cycling. It's like you can do a 20-hour week and you're not going to feel totally trashed, where, if you try to run 20 hours, you can really only do that for a short period of time leading up to a race. The main focus this year I've just been to um, get some, get a lot of good, a lot of hours and was the main focus. And then, like being in Missoula yeah, you mentioned Adam.
Speaker 1:What brought you out there? Was it specifically to train with them, or Well, that's part of it.
Speaker 2:I've I mean, I've liked this really great friend group in Missoula, um, and my mom lives there, and so, uh, I went out to go um spend more time with her um, and then uh, coincided with also being able to train with awesome people and being in an awesome place, so it's it's like a win-win for me absolutely yeah um, but then training with adam.
Speaker 2:And then, uh, another guy, jif, uh, gavro. He's a crusher dude. He's so good at Schemo too, so I'd get. I learned a lot from him. This year he's been crushing it on the scene, which is awesome Dude.
Speaker 1:His series in all last year blew my mind Totally. Yeah, like what the fuck? Like I thought you know you would think for just a. I always kind of categorized him.
Speaker 2:I mean he did like Broken arrow every year and things like that, but I just like really categorized him more as like a longer distance, like utmb guy dude yeah, what kind of range, holy shit. Yeah, there's and there's not many dudes that can, or girls who can uh, do well at schema and run a hundred mile race, yeah, and do well.
Speaker 2:It's like he's in a kind of a league of his own almost yeah, he's a phenomenal athlete yeah, not many people can do that, and he's he's a super dude, so it'll be exciting to see what he does this season, for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I've got to get him on the pod. I've got to see if I can text him.
Speaker 2:He's coming out to Missoula sometime. Oh dude, I would interview everybody.
Speaker 1:One of the things I'm always interested in is these mecca areas. We've, uh, which we can get into as well. I remember listening to a podcast and saw you would live there as well back in the day, um, but like there's all these like Mac areas and Missoula is just one of them where, like these athletes just kind of congregate and they kind of lift each other up and and Jesus, like what is in the water there, like these guys are. I mean, like I said, peterman, you've you know, aaron Clark, there's just and isn't uh, is it Jennifer? Uh, is it Jennifer?
Speaker 2:Lickner lives out there as well. Yeah, oh, my gosh, you got like Mike foot and like I mean Missoula will surprise you. Like you'll go there and you'll sign up for like a local race and just get beaten by some like 60 year old dude and you're like who's this guy? Everyone uplifts each other in mozilla.
Speaker 1:it's like a really awesome community, nice, and everyone's really psyched to get after it all the time and, yeah, it's cool so one of the things like I I did pay attention to your strava and I've looking at it's just a lot of like long days like you, a lot of like hiking and stuff like that that you guys kind of put in and that's just by design, just kind of getting these big aerobic days out, or yeah, kind of worked out like that.
Speaker 2:um, I mean, ideally we would have probably been on skis for a lot of those days, um, but like so adam, coming off of a uh stress fracture from last season, he was doing a lot of uh weighted pack hikes, um just to like load the bones, build bone density. So I would always join him on those long, like we would do some big, like five to eight hour hikes out in Montana and being a low snowier was pretty easy to get out and hike around. So yeah, those are great and I think I mean those are.
Speaker 2:that's like the bread and butter of winter If you can get out for five or six hours routinely each week, then you'll be in a good spot Come the. You know, when I start doing six, six, seven hour runs in the mountains that are at a higher intensity, I'll be able to handle them a lot better. Yeah, um, having done these hikes in the winter, so yeah yeah, really valuable stuff cool man.
Speaker 1:Well, one of the things I did want to dive into and, uh, I just felt like your 2023 season was so underrated. I felt like you had absolutely I mean dude, like we could drive into so many things like I. And and one of the things that, like I think people don't talk about enough, that blew me away. As a local Colorado Springs guy was seeing your 20 minute incline. I was like holy shit.
Speaker 1:Um, there was just so many things, um, that just kind of blew me away. So we can kind of unpack each one. I mean the Minotaur, we can talk about just a lot of your sky racing in europe. Um, you, I'll let you take it away as far as where you want to start with.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we kind of go from there yeah, I mean, 2023 was sort of, uh, the same deal, like all winter long. I just um, I just ski toured up at wolf creek, um, southern colorado, um, and then, yeah, like dude, I really didn't do anything, like barely any workouts. And then, leading up to the minotaur sky race, I was like I've got to do something, something hard, yeah, and the incline was calling and so I went for it and I was not expecting to run that fast and I think I hiked, probably like half of it. And then when I got up there, I was like, oh, it's like really psyched to dude that middle section is just like impossible, dude, it's tough.
Speaker 2:It's awesome, though. And then since then, I've gone back to the manitou incline a couple times just for training. Yeah, I've like specifically driven from alamos all the way up here just to get on the incline, because it's amazing it's so steep and awesome.
Speaker 2:But, um, yeah, then uh felt that that gave me a lot of confidence going into the. I didn't. Uh felt that that gave me a lot of confidence going into the Minotaur Sky Race out in Canada. Um, and felt like training had been going pretty well. Um, and yeah, that race was, uh was awesome. That went really well for me. I was super happy to win there.
Speaker 1:What a beautiful uh backdrop Like we can kind of get into, like the location and like the area. I mean, it's North America's. I think it's north america's only sky race, correct?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, yeah, which you took first place at in 2023, yeah, that was great, I mean, and I think, um, that race is like it's got this really, compared to all the other sky races that I ended up doing that season, that one has this like really low-key feel to it, because when you go to like Zermatt in Switzerland or like a place in Italy, there's a thousand people on course Right, screaming, and there's like helicopters and stuff, and so the Minotaur Sky Race is so rad because you're really out there in the, you know, in the Canadian Rockies, just running up and down scree slopes and it's a little more wild. I think a lot of the Europeans that raced the Minotaur Sky Race were talking about how wild that race felt Really. Yeah, it's unique in that sense. You'll see, in some European races there are a lot of chains and ropes and stuff like that and there's nothing like that. There's a couple of sections where you're totally scrambling and if you mess up, you're going to mess up big time.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, it's rad, I loved it, and the race directors are super cool and that race is like like blear more is a tiny town, yeah, but that race it's like they they just created that course, like all the trails were designed for that race, wow, yeah, so it's all like catered for that race and it's a really aesthetic loop. Um, yeah, I love it. I'm gonna go back every single year, as long as are you coming back this year?
Speaker 1:I mean we'll get into 2024 but I'll be back.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'll be back this year, okay very, very cool.
Speaker 1:Dude. What a yeah. I mean I was blown away. I had it on the list for this year, dude, the mini tar I thought looked kind of cool too. I like the fact that it was like a thousand meters with almost you know, with about 10k. Yeah, I was like that could be something kind of fun. I like to stick to that. You know that that one two hour range yeah, something like that this year I'm going to be doing, so it kind of conflicted.
Speaker 1:This season I'll be doing most of the circ series races yeah so it kind of conflicted with what I had planned for that, but I mean to say Definitely it's on my list for next year for sure. So the other thing I wanted to get into was Ultrax Extreme. I love that course and it just seemed so brutal. You know what Buzz Burrell is. I know he was out there that day. I just remember reading his write-up on Facebook about it and he was like this is one of the gnarliest courses I've ever been on in my life. Yeah, yeah, do you want to get into that a little bit?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, it was like, um, really felt more like mountaineering and not trail racing. It was, uh, you, you'd started out with like a vertical, I think it was like a 5,000 foot climbs, like almost a vertical mile on trail, and then pretty much everything else after that was off trail, just like through scree fields uh, a lot of scrambling. Um, it was like a glacier crossing, so you had to bring micro spikes. Wow, um, they kind of threw everything at you in that race and the downhills were like just terrifyingly steep and loose and Rocky. And then you're racing dudes like Manuel.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's a god on downhill.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he's just like in his zone and, uh, it was really humbling. I mean the the first climb, it was wild. You're like, uh, you know I'm full on red zoning. Look behind me and there's like 20 guys ready to just run by me at any moment that I start to hike. It's like a different level. It's the depth is just insane. Those international sky races, yeah, and I think especially last year, the, the meta meta horn all tracks was um, sort of like secluded in the series so there wasn't a race before or after necessarily. So a lot of guys ended up doing that race where this year, uh, I think the day after metahorn ultrax is trofio kima in italy, so it's. I think it'll be a little more diluted in competition this year, but last year was like just gnarly I mean, dude, I showed up.
Speaker 1:I couldn't imagine being on start line with, like, roberto di lorenzi, yeah, manuel morales. Like everybody showed up to that race, it seemed like, yes, yeah, it was awesome.
Speaker 2:Um, just cool to see like where maybe I stacked up against those guys yeah yeah, it was.
Speaker 2:It was an eye-opening experience, for sure, because, like you, just you like you don't know until you go and like I felt that that trip really opened my eyes to like what I needed to do differently in training for this year, specifically like, yeah, those guys are, just, they're so much more professional about it, they're really dialed in, they like do a lot of cross training and, yeah, I was like open my eyes to how they, how they train. They seem more like, uh, you know, they're really really separated from, like the maybe lessiso roberto de lorenzi isn't so much like this, but most of those guys like really separated from like the mindset of track and field marathoning.
Speaker 1:It's like they're mountain athletes right, they're running in the mountains and I feel like these guys didn't necessarily grow up doing track and field. They're more mountaineering more growing up skiing, things like that learning how to survive in the mountains, which is unique for when you compare to most americans 90, 99 of americans unless you grow up in colorado, in the mountains, or something like that, yeah, I feel like it's. Uh, it's a completely different, different mindset yeah, and it's.
Speaker 2:I mean, you can only base so much, you can only tell so much off of strava, but like when you look at the training of manuel, it's like he's just going for long hikes all the time looks very easy, yeah but his volume did you see what he did last year for his volume?
Speaker 1:he posted on instagram he did, and it was like 1600 hours yeah, it's like well there's definitely stuff he's not posted on strava.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, yeah yeah, but uh, yeah, man, it's just like yeah I'd say he's probably don't get me wrong Like I really I guess like looking up to people in the sport like Remy's really cool, don't get me wrong, but I think Manuel is probably one of the people that I really look up to in the sport and just find super interesting. Yeah, just like his approach in general and just do his ability I mean, you've seen it firsthand Just that ability to move downhill on technical terrain. It's just I can't. I just can't fathom how people can move that quick on that yeah.
Speaker 2:And the uphill dude? He'll just hike away from you.
Speaker 1:Really.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he gets his poles out like.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the bamboo poles In front of him.
Speaker 2:Power hikes up and he's just cruising yeah.
Speaker 1:That's crazy. Okay, so Matterhorn Ultra X Extreme, which you had a top 10. Incredible performance as well. I'm trying to check my list of what you've got Now forgive me, the Gringy Sky. Marathon. I'm an Italian and I can't even pronounce that shit. I think it's Grigine.
Speaker 2:Grigine. Okay, I think I'm also incorrect in that pronunciation, so I apologize to any Italian.
Speaker 1:Sorry if we have any Italian listeners. Did you wrong?
Speaker 2:But yeah, that was the next race in the series and that was just a super technical, much longer race than Metahorn Ultrex. It seemed like everyone from Metahorn Ultrex came out to that race as well, so it was kind of like cool to see everyone again and yeah, that was pretty sweet. It was in this little town in Italy called Pasturo and I got there probably like a week before the race and it was like a ghost town, like no one's there.
Speaker 2:Shops are open like half the day, wow, and then like a day or like no one's there shops are open like half the day, like that, and then, like a day or two before the race started, it was like they're just like thousands of people there and I think they said, out on course there was like a thousand spectators and just wild. It was kind of like like I think I said this on my um strava report but it was like felt like I've never been to zagama, but it kind of felt like that but there's like people screaming yeah, like a line of people just scream.
Speaker 2:It was super rad. It was such a cool experience. Uh, the Matterhorn ultra X race was like. Not that many people were out on the course Cause it's a little bit too like out there, but there are a lot of mountain huts and just yeah, tons of people out screaming for you and it was super cool. That race was really tough. I think I got a little iron deficient at the end of the season and that was sort of like. This was like another learning experience I probably trained too hard in like June and July and then come August, september, I started to really feel it, but that accompanied with like just the stress of traveling in Europe for the first time and trying to figure all of that out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, did you go by yourself entirely.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was by myself. I did end up linking up with a U S guy from Mancos, Simon. He's a super rad dude, Simon Kearns. He was doing a couple of the races also. Actually, he would be an awesome dude to have on the podcast.
Speaker 1:He's only like 23 and he's oh wow, he's crushing it too. Dude, I keep having all these young killers on. I just like I don't know. It's amazing like it gives me I feel like it gives me new energy, you know, yeah, it's cool so I get did get to uh meet up with him and travel.
Speaker 2:He was uh in europe or in italy for a couple days with me, uh, before the race, so that was nice, but other than that I was just flying solo, uh, trying to figure it all out. It was overwhelming, for sure I'm sure dude. Now I sort of like know the know how it goes yeah, yeah, okay yeah and then what was the final?
Speaker 1:the uh, I, I don't even want to try to pronounce it, oh yeah, the Limone Extreme. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah that was cool.
Speaker 2:I think at that point I was 100% done with my season. That was rough, but I ended up going out back again to Italy. I almost stayed in Europe for like the entire duration between Grazina and Limone Extreme sky race for the finals. But I'm so glad I came back to colorado for like about a month and got to enjoy the fall here, much quieter in the sangres than staying over in europe for sure and so traveled back and then, yeah, just pretty tired.
Speaker 2:But uh had high expectations for that race and it just like kind of fizzled out a little bit. It was that was a grind, yeah. And then after that I just took a couple weeks off and yeah now I'm here, but we miss.
Speaker 1:We miss an important one man 10 mile traverse yes, which for? You colorado people out there. The 10 mile traverse is just like absolute coveted traverse between what is it uh?
Speaker 1:dylan silverthorne area um it's like, it's like right out frisco yeah, yeah, all the way down to brackenridge, yeah, and it's just a beautiful line. Um, dude, you fucking smoked, that course. You took like five minutes off of andy wacker's time or something like that. I forget how much it was. I remember commenting on it specifically with the amount of time you took off of it because it blew my mind, yeah. But yeah, just congratulations on that one. I mean for us Coloradans that you know kind of admire that route and that line is just yeah amazing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's one Back in 2018, I tried it and got destroyed. It was really tough. I think it's cool to look back Like 2018, I was probably like really cocky and I was like, yeah, I'm gonna go out and crush I think at the time it was anton and joe grants uh, if kt and I was like, yeah, I'm gonna destroy this time. And then I didn't even make it to peak 10 and I just like hobbled down to breaking ridge. It was so, so hard, yeah. But then going back, it was like, um, yeah, I was just uh, because it was such a long gap between the Minotaur Sky Race and Matterhorn All Treks I really wanted to do something and I'd been like toying around with the idea of going for, like the Ellingwood Ridge round trip on La Plata Peak. But ultimately, yeah, I went for the 10-mile traverse and really glad I did. I would love it if anyone in Colorado or in the States went after that Good luck to anybody Jesus dude?
Speaker 1:You put up such a stout time.
Speaker 2:It's perfect sky running because it's like really steep, like vertical kilometer to peak one. Then you got like peak one through four is like really technical scrambling bit of climbing and then it's just just like survival until peak 10 and then you just got to like bomb it down the ski slopes of rick and roose I've only been up to victoria because I went for the victoria fkt last summer.
Speaker 1:Yeah, didn't get it, joe demore got it. Shout out to joe demore. But uh, I was amazed. Even with your time on that dude, I was like you were flying, holy shit. Yeah, I was like I really like.
Speaker 2:I really went for it on the climb and then I saw that I think I was maybe a minute behind andy's time to that summit, okay, um. And then, yeah, peaks two and three went like really well and I put a bunch of time on like anton and uh joe's splits um from like peaks one through three. And then I totally botched it on peak four. Uh like went too far left and like missed, uh, like I had to scramble way harder than I would have liked to uh to get back on the ridge um. So it's kind of like, after peak four I was like, oh man, maybe I've, maybe I've missed it, like I've screwed it up, not gonna get this.
Speaker 2:It's funny how like your mind totally takes you to that bad place instantly. You're just like, oh, you're screwed, you ruined it. But then managed to just make up a lot of time on the sort of rolling train through peaks five and five and nine. And then, yeah, realized I had it in the bag and just went for it. And then I got like stuck in a bunch of willows on the descent. My like boa popped out of my sportiva cyclones and it was a little heinous, but oh man, so there's. There's still some time to get if anyone wants to go for it okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, dude, it would have to be substantially world-class, because that I, like I said, I was just blown away. Um, yeah, wow, glad we got a chance to chat about that and then I, I also dude. So all right, even more, I want to go even more deeper into this incline. So you also took the record. I think some, I think Ali Papalan, took it from you but, the up-down record on the incline.
Speaker 1:Now let me just ask you this I'm just very curious because, as someone that loves training on steep stuff and trying to get better for these really technical, heinous races Like, do you think that, like, do you feel strongly that that compliments a lot of for your specific training for those races? Are is the incline and a lot of those steep up downs kind of rare?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's like. Uh, that's all that I do, bro, specifically just up down do you do any flat running?
Speaker 2:I just I have so much to dig into on this, never I so and I get a lot of shit for this from like adam and jeff, especially like you know what are you doing, dude? And I remember at the end of like the limo in the sky race, this guy came up to me. He's like you don't like flat running, do you? Because I got totally passed by a couple dudes. I'm last 100-meter stretch of the race, but yeah, it's something. Actually, adam and I did a workout two weeks ago where we did a hard sentinel climb, which is like a 2,000-foot climb, and then after that we did on a flat bike path.
Speaker 2:We did five by eight minutes, or sorry, three by eight minutes, and I think that stuff like it's, it is really important to have a bit of like turnover on the flat stuff yeah I'm sort of realizing that I can't be at the level that I want to without, um, doing some flat threshold type running, just being like I've gone the last like five years without being able to run like under six minute miles comfortably, which is a bad sign. So I need to get back into that and, um, I think being in Missoula is really helpful, cause, like in the sun grays dude, it's like you're just, you're always. You know, if I drive to the mountains I'm going to be just doing vertical, yeah.
Speaker 1:And then vertical, yeah, and then if I run flat I guess I could run an alamosa, but like I see you running that on strava, that road, up the blanca, that como road, yeah, it's fucking heinous man, it's terrible yeah yeah, it's just like baby head boulders and it's horrible, awful, yeah, and actually like uh.
Speaker 2:So to prepare for the sky racing season last year, I I like built a trail just adjacent Tacoma road which is like steeper, and so I could just go up and down that and that made up probably the majority of my training.
Speaker 2:I would say, just going up and down that, so, and I think it helps. Um, I mean, probably the most important aspect of sky running is like being fit and being able to run uphill fast. But if you're not able to like be on that like third descent of the race, able to like totally give it your all, like if your legs are at all shot, and you're not able to like run really fast in that last descent or that middle descent, whatever it is, it's like you're like you're toast, so you gotta have the muscular endurance yeah, and so I think, just going up and down, something like mount sentinel and missoula or the incline, it's really important just to build that like fatigue and because I think a lot of people end up, um, you know, they'll do a really hard climb and then they'll just like be like that's my workout and they'll just start like jogging back down.
Speaker 2:But if you do that all the time, like that's going to be where you're going to, you're going going to race, like that, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So you've got to like um. I find it's really helpful to um put a bit more emphasis on the downhill and training more often than not, like I'll often go for runs in Missoula and just like give it a little bit of a push on the downhill, even if I'm just like hiking uphill, not really too hard but I want to like constantly be like uh, fatiguing my legs and making sure that I'm always in there Be dialed to, I feel like in the sense where you're in.
Speaker 1:I mean I just noticed this from racing too just being in the moment, being present, not like I feel like if you zoned out in training, you will be zoned out in racing in a lot of ways to just being so dialed and being in the moment. Um, I think it's just so helpful and that's always helped me. But, yeah, yeah, that's that's interesting, dude, and it's really interesting to me that about the flat stuff, cause I, I feel very similarly. I mean, I'm sure my coach is listening to this right now they like there's a lot of emphasis on turnover, especially in the winter. A lot of emphasis on turnover, especially in the winter, a lot of emphasis on speed and I do agree with that because I, I always need to improve my speed. Um, but, dude, I love, I love steep vertical. It's like my favorite thing in the world.
Speaker 2:So your coach is eli taber hemming yeah, right, yeah because I think if you're doing golden trail stuff, you need to be able to run fast, yeah, yeah. And I think that the golden trail, now especially, is more similar to a like road marathon in terms of like the type of training you need to do, yeah, to be successful. We're in sky running. It's like the for one. The races are at least like twice as long, but, um, I think the emphasis on being a good downhiller is more important. Where I think in the golden trail series now, it's like even with like a race like Sears and all, all you have to be is an aerobic monster and also able to have a good turnover, like running five-minute pace, six-minute pace. That should feel comfortable, but there's almost never a time in a Sky Race where you're having to run faster than a a 10 minute mile.
Speaker 1:Yeah, even though it's on downhill, gnarly terrain. Yeah, actually, I have a question for you. Do you, can you impact that a little bit, cause I'm not really sure what our listener, from listeners perspective, I hear people confusing sky running and golden trail a lot and I don't think people genuinely understand, like how gigantic of a difference there is between the two. Um, I know you talked about a little bit distance wise, but like just from a technicality perspective and just from an overall perspective, like can you get unpacked like a little bit more?
Speaker 2:Yeah, totally. Um, I think maybe I don't know how old golden trail is, but maybe like four or five years ago golden trail had a lot more technical races and like last year they had uh, the, uh, their race in the dolomites, which is actually a pretty technical race, um, but now that's gone and it's like if you look at all the sky or all the golden trail world series races, uh, this year it's like very runnable. You'll maybe never be running a mile with more than like 500 feet of climbing in it. Um, really, wow see, I haven't. I, I might just be uh making that up.
Speaker 1:Well, even pikes is gone now, exactly yeah, pikes is gone so it's all.
Speaker 2:It's like caters a lot more to um filming the race. For sure it's a little easier to film those races, um, but it's also it's just really fast running, um, and the downhills the uphills aren't really steep, the downhills aren't technical necessarily. Maybe the I think there's a race in like poland this year which might be pretty technical and gnarly, but for the most part, uh, they're really leaning towards more of the like fast runnable stuff and especially if you look at like this is Solomon's series and if you look at all the new shoes that Solomon's making, it's like way more accustomed to like a road buffed out trail. So I think that's sort of the direction that they're going. So, yeah, golden Trail is like shorter races, usually like two hours in length, maybe three um sub ultra, so always under a marathon in distance, but they're just fast runnable races and I think us athletes do really well at those. Of course, like the hemmings absolutely destroy and uh, sophia lockley, and yeah, the list goes on.
Speaker 2:But then sky running is well, for there are no sky races in the US. There's one in Canada now which is red, but sky running is just a lot more of like a mountaineering race, I think would be the best way to describe it. You're really like you're going pretty slow. You're usually hiking all the uphills because they're gnarly steep, like 30% 40% grades. The descents are 30 40 percent grades. It's like really really steep and burly. It's rocky, it's off trail usually, um, you need sure footing, good shoes, sticky rubber, that kind of thing. Um, shout outs for two, shout outs for two. And you definitely need like a bit of scrambling experience, experience in the mountains. If you go from like a, you know you're like typical 50 K with 4,000 feet of climbing.
Speaker 2:In the States, go to a sky race. You're going to be in for a rude awakening. It's tough, yeah, just, your legs are going to get destroyed on the downs. So, yeah, it's just. It's just different. And I think in Europe sky running has been around for a long time. Um, there's like a lot of routes. I mean you'll go to these races and they've been going on for like 20 or 30 years and, um, I think people in europe who train for these sky races, they're um, yeah, they're just, they're better at it. They're, they know what they're doing, they've got it dialed um, and they tend to do like, uh, there's this guy, william buffelli, who's a really good sky runner, and I saw he came out a couple years ago for, like the pike's peak ascent, he was like 50th place or 70th place or something like god is world rocked, yeah, and he's like.
Speaker 2:He's one that he was like. I think he's won. There's like big schema race in Europe. Uh, peter Minta.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And he's like top 10 in sky running world series, but yeah, he, he doesn't do super well. Maybe it was the altitude but also just likeical.
Speaker 1:it's as easy it gets on the 14er. Yeah, yeah, interesting, yeah, uh, dude, thank you for unpacking that and I I think that's just so beneficial for so many listeners. And it's interesting too because, like we have, we've got races like the rut, we've got broken arrow, they're like sky racing light, like I think run the rut is probably the closest thing we've got in America, 28k with 8 000 ish feet of climbing you summit a high peak and it they could be part of the sky running world series, but it's kind of like it's uh, it's expensive to be part of the sky running world series.
Speaker 2:It's kind of annoying.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what was the thing like we had the usa sky running series for a little bit there. Yeah, it died and I I I've even like shot a dm to the account like will this ever come back? Will we ever like get anything like this in america again? And I think it's tough in a lot of ways too, because that's why I think I'm really long on the cirque series this year.
Speaker 2:It's just because those races are just so damn unique julian does a really good job of putting on a fun race.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, and it's just. It's like it's sub ultra, but it's just its own little world. It's very different. You're bringing in, you know, skiing athletes. You're bringing in just athletes from kind of all over the place. In a lot of ways, it's not just runners, which is exciting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah you get like those nordic dudes especially coming out for them, because most of those races are out in utah right yeah, you got a lot of a lot of snow. Sport athletes in utah who like aerobically really strong yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Um, have you ever? I know you've done a basin. Have you done any of the other ones?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I did Um, uh, the one out in grand Tarhe.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that was really cool.
Speaker 1:Um.
Speaker 2:I enjoyed that one more than a basin.
Speaker 1:Hey basin was a little, a little bit too runn says, yeah, yeah, I got my butt kicked there for sure. That's all. It's like a? Yeah, it's almost like a road in a lot of ways.
Speaker 2:People say there's like a lot of road sections yeah, it's just, it's like it's very high altitude, so if you're good at running at altitude, it's it's a very good race, like I think, the year I did it. Noah noah williams out of lidville yeah second, um and uh, who just had on ace brown yes third that year.
Speaker 1:I think this is a beast man, those guys rolled me up, dude, and that's I've, like I've personally watched both of them duke it out at kendall. Uh, they're just yeah good at altitude I I that's something I struggle with myself, like I'm just not. I mean this, even though we're sitting at 7 000 feet, like I just don't, I can't get up enough so uh especially during the summer, or yeah, during the summer to like.
Speaker 2:Get that adaptation better yeah, I think noah's really good at it, like he ski patrols at uh copper yeah I gotta have him on he's, especially now that he's on sportiva as well like we gotta yeah, oh, totally yeah he was actually. He was at the grand traverse, he got sick and did he really? Yeah? Wow he grew up nordic skiing, so he's really good at that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's cool yeah hey man, so we got into the 2023 season. I really like the fact that we just unpacked both of those, like kind of the difference between golden trail and sky running. Um, I really want to dive into like what you got planned for this year, though, yeah, um, it'll look uh similar to last year.
Speaker 2:Um, so I'll start the season uh with um uh race out in mexico, in orizaba. I think they're calling it the mexico sky challenge, I think is the name. Um, so that'll be out. Uh, it's like super high altitude race down in mexico. Um, that'll be uh, may 26, 25th, 26, okay, um, so that'll be my first race uh, which I'm really looking forward to. It looks, the course looks amazing.
Speaker 2:That area looks incredible neat right the base of pico de orzaba and uh yeah, so that'll be really exciting, and it'll be nice too that I don't have to travel all the way over to europe to do a sky Race.
Speaker 1:It can be a little closer to home in a way Less than a seven-hour flight, right Exactly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no time. Well, only a small time difference relative to Europe. So I'll start my season there and then, a month after that, I'll be out in Canada for the Minotaur Sky Race again, which I'm really looking forward to.
Speaker 1:Roberto De Lorenzi is supposedly going to be out for that one. Okay, oh. So more euros coming where you're always coming out yeah, it's going to be exciting.
Speaker 2:Um, and then right after that, I'll be in peru for, uh, cordillera uh, I'm forgetting the name cordillera sky race in juarez, okay, um, so that'll be in peru and that's another really high altitude race, part of the sky running series. Um, one thing that's different is last year they had, um, they had like sky races that were worth more points than some other sky races, um, and so this year it's all across the board just the same. So I think last year the race in peru was worth like half the points, but this year it's just the same. So it makes a lot more sense to go out for that one.
Speaker 2:And then after that I've got a good break and, depending on how recovery goes from that sort of like block of racing, I really want to go out to Jackson Hole and give an effort on the Grand Teton. That would be like a big goal of mine near the end of july, beginning of august, depending on weather and how the snowpack is and everything out there. Um, but I would, uh, I was like super inspired by uh, jack kensley going out last year and giving it a go and um, yeah, I, I want to be out there for sure, and in that period of time, and give that record a try. Um don't know if I'll get it, dude that's amazing.
Speaker 1:I'm glad you guys heard it here first. Yeah, yeah, um, but no, seriously that's. I was going to mention like following along, like Jack's effort was just insane, man, yeah, so, yeah, that's, so that'll.
Speaker 2:So that'll be sort of in between races. That'll be a big goal of mine for this season is doing that and then back out for Matterhorn Ultrex. I'll do that again, and right after I'm still I may or may not be on this team, it's uh.
Speaker 2:So the sky running world champs are this year okay so every two years they have the sky running world champs. This year and they're in uh, soria, spain, I think is the name of the town. Um, but I've I'm yet to hear back from the new zealand slash australia sending a team okay and I've sort of put my hand up saying I'd like to be a part of it.
Speaker 2:So awesome, we'll see if I get selected or not. But um, that would be, I think, the a week or two after, or the matterhorn, all tracks. So okay, do that and then I'll, if I do that, race the in spain. I will fly um immediately back to montana and I'll be doing the rut okay, yeah, I'll do it, I'll see out there.
Speaker 1:What are you? What are you? Doing, do the 28k okay, I'll be doing the vk day before sweet man, so I'll see out there for sure.
Speaker 2:Um, and then after that, uh, got a big break until, um, the the sky running final is in spain. I think it's like november, it's like late november, okay oh, wow so yeah, I'll have a. That's gonna be tricky, that's it's so hard to have a. You know, may through november season is long and yeah and, uh, I haven't quite nailed that yet, so, dude I struggle myself.
Speaker 1:Last year I was. I mean, I started my season in may and by the time september came around I was pooped it was. It was rough.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it's a long season but, like everyone in europe, seems to do just fine. So, yeah, I don't know they're, they got it dialed or something. Yeah, I gotta learn. Learn from them, but um, yeah, so interesting that'll be my season yeah, that is amazing.
Speaker 1:I mean it's a big season. I'm really excited for it, yeah, yeah. Question on like the world series final, is that invite only, or how does that work?
Speaker 2:yeah, you, you have to, um be placed in, uh, the top 10 of a sky running world series race. Okay, there are also some wild cards like you can apply to do the final, even if you haven't run a sky running world series race. Okay, um, which they're always like a couple people who show up to the to the final. But, um, yeah, it makes a lot more sense to do the final if you do the full series, because there's like a huge prize purse at the end of the season, is there things?
Speaker 1:so yeah, is there a prize purse also individually per race as well?
Speaker 2:yeah, I think each race has a? Um, I think each race has to have a ten thousand dollar prize purse, okay, so it's usually like a thousand fifteen hundred for first place and then dwindles down from there it's not bad, yeah, it's great.
Speaker 2:And then the end of season prize purse is like last year was a hundred thousand dollars, holy shit, and this year I think it's like around the same, maybe a little bit less, because they also added an under 23. Yeah, sky running series saw that part of it. So, yeah, money's going towards that.
Speaker 1:But I gotta get you connected with. Uh, I've got a guy coming on the podcast, ben townsend. He's a local colorado springs guy. He got selected like we're gonna talk about on the pod, but he just got picked to be one of the u23 guys yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, is he a dynafit dude? He is a dynafit guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, he's that's right yeah, that's exciting.
Speaker 1:It's really exciting to see more you know, just more up and coming talent from that you know 20 something age group, like you know, sub 25 and stuff like that coming out and getting excited about stuff like this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean man, I wish I had started when I was 23.
Speaker 1:Dude same. I mean I'm old, I'm 33. And I got into this when I was like late 20s.
Speaker 2:So you know, I wish I had all that time to develop, but then you also look like there are some guys who are in their late 30s. There's one guy I'm going to butcher his name, I'm sure, but his name is Zaid Malik, zaid Ait Malik.
Speaker 1:Sounds familiar. He's from Spain.
Speaker 2:He's 40 years old and he kicked my ass three times, so there you go Dude, dude, these old guys, man, or there's some I.
Speaker 1:I just it's the euros, man, they're just so dialed and so put together and yeah, yeah um, yeah, he's really good at like downhill.
Speaker 2:Specifically he's like at metahorn, all tracks. I passed him on the last climb. I was like he's done, I've got us in the bag, and then he put five minutes on me in the last four miles of downhill. What just totally blew me out of the water. Yeah, oh my god, yeah, yeah, dude, I just pretty cool I I really love.
Speaker 1:One of the things you got into was just just how different it is on the american scene versus the european scene, and just like how far we have to come, like how much development we still have.
Speaker 2:Like I think it's more so. It's just like the interest needs to be there yeah I think I like I was a little disillusioned with american races because I was just like not really excited about uh, there are no races that. I was like this is really inspiring me to race this. Yeah, maybe the rut would be the only exception. Um, that's when I found out about the race in canada, I was just like.
Speaker 2:I was like I bet canada has some really cool mountain races so I just googled like mountain races in canada, and then came upon the minotaur sky race, yeah, and then that's how I learned about the sky running world series and yeah, it's just, the entry to it is a little bit harder, um, of course, like pretty much any sky races out of the country, so that adds a big level of difficulty to you know, financially, um, logistically, it's a lot harder to do a sky race, being a us athlete, but I would encourage anyone to go out to canada. You know, absolutely, yeah, it's not that hard to get there.
Speaker 1:So no, and it's like the I don't know the minutes are just the course blew me away I and it's interesting too. And I don't know the minutes are just the course. Blew me away I and it's interesting too. And I don't want to be too redundant but like just we just don't have that on the American scene yet. And I hope one of the things I'm sure, if you heard on ACEs podcast when we were chatting is just getting more inspiring courses or like just stuff that like gets you excited and isn't just like two times around a ski hill or something like that, you know, like something more in America that's going to give us a.
Speaker 1:You know, I know a lot of stuff in Colorado is in a wilderness zone, so it makes it kind of tough, but if we can, have Pikes Peak, if we can have the Pikes Peak marathon or the ascent why, can't we have something, you know, something similar?
Speaker 2:I agree. I mean, I think the permitting system is just much easier and those races are to like all of them had been grandfathered in and it's like we have Hard Rock and that seems to be the only race that's like truly like. Hard rock is similar to like a utmb or something, minus the fact that you can only have like 250 people race hard rock and you can have like 10 000 racing at utmb.
Speaker 1:so that's something I actually wanted to dive into. Um, I know you got to pace. Was any last year or the year? It was last year, right, yeah? Yeah, by the way, I totally sniped your uh off strava. Um, kendall route that goes up the Abbey shoot. Oh, yes, totally Sick route, right? Um, yeah, it's on my, it's literally on my watch right now, like I'm going to Silverton. Uh, as soon as everything melts out, I'll be out there for a lot this summer and even during hard rock. Um, but anyway, dude, what was that like? Getting the pace, hard rock?
Speaker 2:Oh, what was that like getting to pace hard rock? Oh, it was like amazing. Yeah, yeah, being I've been out to hard rock a couple times just to spectate and every year it's like the buzz, the buzz around town is so fun. Um, yeah, I love being out there and then getting to pace annie was like really cool to be a part of that. Um, she was like man. She was suffering from start to finish it was so crazy yeah getting to like.
Speaker 2:I met up with her. Um, I'm blanking on the the aid station, but I think it was in ten a telly ride. Okay, yeah, maybe, maybe it was after that.
Speaker 2:No, it was a good chapman chapman gulch yeah um, but anyway, it was like the last um marathon, basically. Okay, um, it's a beautiful stretch. Yeah, it was perfect and like right as the sun was rising and everything. But yeah, she had just been hurting and like throwing up and like having such a rough go. Yeah, like totally hallucinating, but she's so good at just pushing through, she's wild man and then the next day she ran the they do like a mile, like a depletion mile, like she freaking ran like seven minutes or something like that for her man and slide yeah, you're just.
Speaker 2:You're built different. You're tough, yeah, yeah, I would never did you ever?
Speaker 1:is that something you'd ever consider is 100 miles?
Speaker 2:I wouldn't. Yeah, you know, something like nolan's really, really interests me yeah yeah, but at the same time it's like I'm in no rush to do that. I think I can realistically do well at something like nolan's when I'm in my 40s right so but yeah, I don't know, I yeah 100 miles like.
Speaker 2:So I don't know if you know this, but two years ago, three years ago, two years ago I ran the lidville 100. I didn't know, I didn't know that through sportiva you just get an entry and yeah, I was like oh, I'll do that.
Speaker 2:I did not find that in my research well, I dropped out in mile 72, so I'm glad you didn't know. But uh, yeah, it's like, um, the distance, like I, I think I'm really really bad at like sleep deprivation, um same, and just going for that long. I don't know if I'm built for that kind of thing. I'm probably just like talking myself down. But, um, I really enjoy the like three to five hour races and fkt type thing and that seems to be the sweet zone for me. Um, but yeah, once you get like over 10 hours like even just doing the grand traverse a couple days ago was like once we hit eight hours I just hit a wall. It's like we weren't going necessarily that fast, but I was like, yeah, I just, I don't know, I'm not good at that stuff. Yeah, not yet.
Speaker 1:Hopefully one day it was one of those things that, like when I signed on with sportiva uh, one of the things I, kelsey, had did mention and talked about, like some of the uh, you know the the races that they sponsor, and one of them is leadville and I yeah it almost like flashed on me for a second, like do I just sort of like go for one of these this year just for fun, and then there's no way I'd be able to finish that race. Dude, it's horrendous. It was such a big mistake.
Speaker 2:I mean, I went from basically it was like 50k to 100 mile. I'd never run a 50 mile or 100k race and my legs were just felt like they're going to fall off after mile 50. It was so tough, yeah, and they're like man. I have so much respect for people like Annie and people who do well at the hundred mile distance, like Jeff and Adam, and, yeah, it's like man. So far, so far I don't know how. They're just good at it.
Speaker 1:Which is interesting too is like both of them, I think, have um on jeff and adam, just have like such range as well. Yeah, like you would think I don't know if I was jeff, after doing what I did a series at all last year I'd be like, oh, you know, there's, you know, maybe looking at shorter stuff, but I guess, and everybody's different man like that's, I don't know that's not something I would, but yeah, I think I mean it must be.
Speaker 2:I think it's easier to be. So you're like, go to the 100 mile distance. It's easier to be. If you're good at the 100-mile distance, it's easier to come down and rip a 50K. I think it's harder for someone who hasn't done that distance before to just jump up into it and do. Well, 100 miles is very specific in terms of how you train for it and everything. Of course, it's 100 miles as trail runners. You just forget how insane that is.
Speaker 1:Dude, I paced tell it bill two years in a row um, not last year, it was two years prior and it was only for the last like 20 miles and I'm just like, oh my god this is horrible but yeah, no, I like I said, yeah, mad respect, mad props to anybody that goes out and does that totally, totally, totally yeah.
Speaker 1:So one of the things that you really struck me about. I know this is the first time we've got a chance to actually meet and sit down and talk, but you just seem very professional, um out of like most yes, Like out of a lot of, out of most of the professional runners that I've actually like ever interacted with and met, you seem very determined, very driven, very professional.
Speaker 1:Um, and I and I mean that is the most extreme compliment possible- yeah, I'm just very curious to get in your head and and see, like, where you know, where do you want to take this? Like what is your plan with this?
Speaker 2:um, I mean, yeah, I would say that. Um, I'm surprised you said that, because I don't know if I have that.
Speaker 1:Uh like you dialed dude, like I think I think I'm dialed, and then I talked to someone like you and I'm like holy shit.
Speaker 2:I think I mean I like ever since I was a kid when I started getting in, like I was like 12 or 13 years old when I started running and I was like instantly, just on, let's run message boards, like I'm obsessed with training philosophy and like all the ins and outs of how different people train and so, yeah, I guess, yeah, where I want to take it is just like, as far as I can, I don't know I would love to be able to, um, like, be one of the like guys who are always podium, yeah, like top three, at these sky races, international sky races is that what you want to continue to pursue for the next few years?
Speaker 2:yeah, I think so yeah, um, I yeah in the sky running series. It's sort of the only race series that really interests me. Um, and then there are, of course, like races like the rut. There are some other races in Europe, um, that I would love to do someday, like, uh, lava Redo and you know, things like that, um, sears, and all as well, yeah as well. Yeah, I gotta start running a little bit more to develop that race, but I don't know, I'd love to. You know, I think I'm 28 now, so I've got maybe I'd like to think I've got two more years of like really high, high level performance and you know, I like probably more dude who knows, who knows?
Speaker 2:yeah who knows um. But I think you know, in the last two years I feel like I've really been a lot more dialed in and like focus driven on what I wanted to be good at. And now you know I've got the opportunity to do it and really passionate about it, like there's not a day that goes by that I don't think about trail running and I don't think about, you know, performance and so I think it's one of the things I missed in saying is that, like, the passion is very evident, you know, yeah, yeah I'm glad to hear that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm very passionate. I care a lot.
Speaker 1:I probably care too much at times, but dude, I don't think you can care too much. I mean, I said this on previous podcasts like when I go to sleep at night, I'm thinking about it. Like when I wake up in the morning, I'm usually thinking about, like, what my training day is going to look like. It's it's really I don't know. It's just like it's a fun passion.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:What do you like to do when you're not uh, when you're not training?
Speaker 2:Um well, I, I do have a job, so I guess when I'm not training um dude, I don't know, that's like my life no, I work, and then I would say the same thing yeah and play with my dogs.
Speaker 2:You know I like I like hanging out with my friends in missoula, like we go out for beers every now and then and I went to a concert a couple weeks ago which was really fun, um, things like that, just really easy, fun stuff, I mean. And in the summer especially, I just love to camp. Like it works out. You like camp at the base of a mountain, you can run it the next morning, but being able to camp is really fun, just love. Being outside, I think, is, yeah, the big thing.
Speaker 2:And I guess, now that I'm thinking about it, I used to rock climb a lot. Okay, I don't rock climb quite as much now. Um, I don't really have any like anyone to really rock climb with in missoula. Um, and like the person I used to rock climb with a bunch, like, I don't live close to them anymore. So, um, yeah, rock climbing was probably like the thing I did the most outside of running a couple years ago, but it's fun, drifted away from it a little more than I would like. Um, yeah, maybe this summer I'll get back into it I don't know.
Speaker 1:I love mixing it like the screen. I guess it's more so. Just getting proficient at scrambling is where, like I find, yeah, maybe the most interesting.
Speaker 2:It helps a lot when you've like the nerves seem to like dissipate once you've climbed like some sport routes or some tread climbing and you've taken a few falls yeah, you know, it's like you get the nerves out of the way and then you can scramble in the mountains a lot easier. I find, yeah, yeah, like climbing a fourth class or like low fifth class route just is infinitely easier when you can climb 510 or something like that. You know, yeah, yeah yeah, I was in.
Speaker 1:I mean, I did a lot of gym climbing last year before uh, I did that broken arrow iron face race. Oh, right on, yeah, super fun man, yeah, super fun yeah um, which you would absolutely smoke. Yeah, I think it's. I think, like the via ferrata is a little too tamed for people that really like to scramble.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, but it was, it was dope nonetheless I've always wanted to go out to broken arrow, um, but then this year it's like the same weekend as minotaur yeah and if it stays that way it's going to be tough, but that's a race. I mean, I feel like that's that beginning of the year race that every american sub ultra distance runner goes out to. And yeah, I would always love to you should do it at least once I think the atmosphere is incredible.
Speaker 1:Um course is okay. I think for I don't know. I was just talking to ace about this, because we were chatting about, like, the 11k route and a couple different routes on there. I think the course is dope. I think there are better courses in america, um, but the course is definitely.
Speaker 2:There's some, some, some cool spots, for sure yeah, I think I mean they do a really good job of like making it a fun event. It's a festival.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, and it's so big dude like that's. That was what blew me away, because I had done a bunch of small, smaller stuff.
Speaker 1:That was by far the biggest race I'd ever been to in america and I was just kind of amazed yeah you know everybody, who's everybody is there yeah, totally, and it's like right before western, which is red, yeah, like yeah yeah, yeah, and you know, I think the thing that has me the most intrigued is, like there's not too many vks around in the country. So I think, think, the fact that the VK course is actually the raddest, I think that's the best part. Very, very cool, and same with the rut. I love that. It just kind of goes up. The natural feature goes straight up Lone Peak, which is dope. Yeah, on the Broken Arrow, vk Jim is going to be there. I know you just to kind of tie that together with you lived in Flagstaff for a little bit too right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I lived there in 2022 for basically a year.
Speaker 1:A little less than a year. Yeah, nice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, moved out there for a bit and it was right after Leadville and I was demoralized. I was like I'm giving up this running thing. This sucks. And thankfully, you know being in flagstaff, I think I moved, end up moving there in like late september and like got to run in flagstaff in the fall, which was amazing. If you ever get the chance to go to flagstaff in like october, november, I'd highly highly recommend it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's just the perfect time of year to be out there, um. And then, uh, through annie hughes, uh linked up with jim uh and got to train with him a lot and he was really like um, he's really helpful in that. I saw how passionate he was for what he was doing and I was like I don't know why I did leadful. I was like I think I'm gonna go for a sky running because he was like you have to be totally um like in order to train hard enough to be at like the top level. You have to really, really want to do it and like be really passionate about it and I'm, and there's not a knock on leadville, but I was.
Speaker 2:That wasn't the case for me, like I was outside of wasn't super passionate about it.
Speaker 2:I was doing it, I thought it'd be really cool, but it wasn't super passionate about it. I was doing it and I thought it would be really cool, but it wasn't like the type of training I was wanting to do. And so, you know, Jim doesn't necessarily do sky races, but just hearing that I was like, you know, I really love vertical, I love technical terrain and yeah, I think this is going to be the move is to do sky running. So yeah, and then, yeah, he was really fun to train with too. Yeah, the time that I was living there he was training for the Madeira 115, 16K, whatever it is Okay, yeah, so he was doing tons of vert and we would lap this route in Flagstaff called Blue Dot.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, which is like a classic. Another like 2,000-foot climb, almost 2, almost 2,000 foot climb, and ran in the Grand Canyon a few times. So, yeah, I feel like I learned a lot from him and, holy shit, what an experience, dude yeah, it was amazing, yeah, I really value that, that time in my life getting to spend time with Jim and just seeing how he, how professional he is like is that like one of the biggest takeaways you took away from?
Speaker 2:yeah, he, he really cares. Like you meet a lot of people and they're like yeah, I love trail running, like even professional runner trail runners. Like I love trail running, but like what I really love is basketball, or like what I really love is like this, and jim was like he really just cares about trail running and like he's so dialed and just everything about his life is very structured and he knows what he's doing. He's he's very professional with it. Yeah, I mean, but he's doing, he's he's very professional with it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, but he's also really good at like separating himself from, from that, like we would go out and get beers and flag stuff and stuff every now and then go for you know he'd go for bike rides and stuff like he wasn't 100 like you know, mind-numbingly focused, yeah but he would, he'd really push himself.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I remember one day we did a or he did. I did not do this, he did a like triple like up and down the south kaibab trail, uh, in the grand canyon. Wow, which is like if you've ever been to the grand canyon and done the south kaibab trail, you know how brutal that is. And to do it three times is just it's like the, the level of determination you need, yeah, to complete. That is unreal. That's interesting, yeah. Yeah, he's like kind of like sick in that way. He like loves to just push himself to the extreme. Well, it's what makes him really good in the heat. He just he can like put him. He like loves to be in this like zone of just pain. Yeah, like thrives in it.
Speaker 1:It's so weird that hurt man, that's special he loves the hurt yeah. Dude, I was really stoked to see that he I mean, obviously he's in Western States, but I was stoked to see that he signed up for the Broken Arrow VK.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was like what a flex to go win, you know to go shit on that. And then that's kind of like some more like small races.
Speaker 1:I just love how he's like evolved in the last few and I don't want to like speak for it, but it just seems, following that story, it seems like he's evolved in the last few years. Just, you know, through this journey of trying to win UTMB, then he goes and wins it and you're completely immersed in this entirely new culture and learning. You know their way of doing things and implementing. You know what you've learned in the past with these new things. You've learned to go win it. It's just very interesting to me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think I mean he's like he's very progressive in that sense because he sort of saw what like professional cyclists do. He's like, well, if you're going to be a professional cyclist in like a race like the Tour de France, you have to be in Europe training, yeah, and there's no one besides. You know, courtney is like a freak of nature. She can, she can do it, but clearly there aren't many people who can train outside of europe and do well at a race like utmb or any european trail race, because they are just, they're a little different yeah um, you know, things like utmb, the gear management is probably a huge, huge thing that.
Speaker 2:I think that's one thing he kind of talked about was living in flag stuff over the summer. You don't exactly get to be in the mountains, yeah, use poles and shit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah Well, it's inspiring. So, on that question, dude, who inspires you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I thought about this a lot. It's a really hard question, but I think someone who's like really inspired me I sort of talked about Jim. I think he sort of formulated the like deep dive into your passion. You're like do what makes you really stoked.
Speaker 2:Um, but another person I got to just meet him for a couple days last summer um, and someone that I've like definitely looked up to in the last few years is jack kinzel. Yeah, um, he's someone who's like he's also just extremely, extremely passionate. Um, like to the point where his life's like almost like a little chaotic. It seems like he's just living in this in his truck and he's like traveling all around. And I say it's chaotic because he's like super determined to always be sleeping at altitude. Interesting, like when he was going for the grand record, he was like driving I think it was like an hour away to sleep at 10 000 feet. He was like refused to sleep in jackson hall because it was too low. So he's like that. You know, that kind of determination. I love that. Yeah, so he's like willing to just do anything to be good at what he's doing and he does it really well like, yeah, yeah, all his rainier denali like he's an interesting one.
Speaker 1:He, I mean, I feel like he's so known for a lot of the things he's done and his accomplishments, but like personality wise, I think he's like one of the more interesting personalities in our sport?
Speaker 2:Definitely yeah.
Speaker 1:Like that guy doesn't care, he just he's doing it because he wants to do it, because he loves it, and I I gotta be honest with you, I admire that probably the most, even I mean outside of. Yes, he's had some incredible accomplishments and he'll continue to, but like the fact that he just doesn't give a shit about what anybody has to say yeah, I love that yeah he'll call you out.
Speaker 2:It's awesome yeah yeah, I love hell. I mean, I guess you know on his social media he's like he's not sponsored by anyone so he's not gonna ever get any like backlash from his company or anything like that, yeah, which I think he likes to keep it that way. Um, and I mean I don't know if, like sport, people would be like mad at us if we like no, we can talk some crap or anything like that.
Speaker 2:But he's like uh, yeah, he's super vocal and he's like so outspoken it like definitely he's helping the like, the community of trail runners, I think yeah, I think if anybody's uh pushing the sport forward, I think he's definitely from an f FKT scene perspective and I would love to see him.
Speaker 1:I know there was like discussion, I don't know. You know him pretty well, so was there a discussion that he was going to do UTMB or something like that or try to qualify for it? Yeah, he.
Speaker 2:I'll have to get him on. I think he was thinking that he was going to be able to qualify this this year for utmb yeah but I and I I didn't even know this, but I guess you have to run a race the year prior to get an injury. So I think he was just like ah, fuck that I'm not gonna, you know, deal with the whole like um bureaucracy of utmb and yeah, also.
Speaker 2:I think I actually don't know what he's planning on doing this year. I know he's out in europe right now out in chamonix, or actually he might be out in italy, uh, somewhere in italy, but dude, what an inspiring human. Yeah, yeah, he goes after it and he's also like his. Bob graham round is next level oh, I don't think people in the states at least quite realize how impressive that is. But his bob graham round is insane yeah and just like he, he could sign up for a race like utmb and do really well.
Speaker 1:But now you've been with him, like, do you think it's like, is it obviously athletic ability? But like, is it that navy seal mindset where he could just like dig, um no I think, I think he just really cares about it yeah, it's the most important thing in his life is is mountain running.
Speaker 2:Love that, yeah, and I think he just he cares so much so he's like able to push himself. I I'm sure there's there's some correlation with being a former navy seal and yeah, you know obviously going through.
Speaker 1:That is like it's gonna mean you're a pretty tough person, but yeah no, I don't know.
Speaker 2:I think he just cares a lot and he he does it really well it's interesting.
Speaker 1:One of the things that interests me a lot about you is like you have like you've had jim in your orbit, you've had Peterman in your orbit, jeff McGrivero, you've got Jack Kenzel, like all these incredible you know that's weird.
Speaker 2:I don't know how that's happened.
Speaker 1:I just feel like that kind of just like elevates, how does that not?
Speaker 2:elevate you Totally. Yeah, I mean like getting to train with those people has been really inspiring. I'm not sure how I've been lucky enough to come across those people Pretty cool man. It's been awesome, yeah.
Speaker 2:So on that question, who is your sub-ultra mountain running goat? Okay, I also thought about this a lot and you have to say Killian. I think you have to say Killian because when you look at the diversity of everything he's done, it's like no one really comes close to that. But then I wanted to think of someone who wasn't killian, and I think it's manuel, manuel, mary, alice. I like that.
Speaker 2:Okay, we've got some some new names. I think it's him because he, you know, he's been doing it for as long as killian, doing it at a really high level, um, and then in the last couple years he's like you know, he won occ two years ago, yep, um, and he's like one of the best skyrunners in the last couple of years. He's like you know, he won OCC two years ago, yep, and he's like one of the best Skyrunners in the world. He does really well in the Golden Trail World Series. He's got extremely good range. He also does some longer races in Spain that I think aren't part of any series and sort of get overlooked, but they're really impressive, like he'd do well at like a mountainous hundred K as well.
Speaker 2:So he also last year he, you know, anyone that's ever gone for a speed record on the Matterhorn has always been supported by the like the guides on the Matterhorn, because it's a really busy mountain. There's realistically only one way up. Um, from either side that you go Zermatt or, uh, slovenia I might have pronounced that wrong Um, it's the Italian side. Um, either way you go, it's like there's not really room to like veer left or right. It's like kind of just a direct route up. So when it's busy it's really hard to get around people. Um, and so you know, killian was totally supported by the mountain guys. He had the mountain to himself more or less. Um, a guy from italy, the deer last year athlete.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he went for it last year and didn't get the record, but ran really fast. But um manuel went for it and he did it unsupported, like he didn't have anyone else with him, and so he was, you know, weaving around people, and he ran it unsupported, like he didn't have anyone else with him, and so he was, you know, weaving around people, and he ran it in like just over three hours, which is pretty close to the FKT, and I think you know he didn't get the FKT, so it's like gets overlooked automatically, but like to do that, you know, I think he was just waiting for people for like 10 minutes at one point so he could get around them and it's like, dude, that's insane. Yeah, yeah, so I have mad respect for that guy.
Speaker 1:Wow, yeah, I mean I, I he first popped on my radar probably within the last like six months to a year, when I, you know, really started just diving in and just immersing myself in the sport to learn more. But I, I mean I, I just there's. There's nothing about the guy you can't, you know, admire. Like everything about him is just really incredible. Yeah, I also like the fact that, like he, he like I think he's got like one of these like prosciutto sponsors, so he's like always posting videos of him in the prosciutto.
Speaker 1:It's like ah the italian in me is. That's exciting. Yeah, that's. I think those are two good answers. It's funny. I, I think it was last night. I was, I was bored, drifting off and I was watching, uh, the 2019 series and all Jim uh, with Petro Mamu versus Killian Um, and I was just like God damn, killian was so good, yeah, it's so good, you know, and it's just it's amazing. You know, that was what I think it was. Maybe it was like a lot. Maybe it was like a year later it might've been 2021. Like a year later it might have been 2021. I think it was um. I think try to remember um, if it was patrick kip and yago, I believe, was running it. Um, and the kenyan guys were in front and killian just made this insane move on this climb.
Speaker 1:Oh, I know exactly dude, and like he attacked on and I was like, oh my god, like just so disgustingly good.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, yeah and then killing like yeah, killian, to be good at like you know, good at hard rock, utmb, the hundred mile stuff and the sub-older stuff is insane. He's also really good at schemo. He's also an extremely competent mountaineer. Like he's climbed the. I think he soloed the north face of the eiger yeah it's like it's done it all. It's just wild. Yeah, no one, no one is coming close. Like you know, remy is an extremely talented schemo athlete and sub-alter runner, but he's not gonna be at a hard rock no, he's not.
Speaker 1:He's not gonna go hard rock, he's not gonna win utmb.
Speaker 2:You know, it's just uh, yeah, his his range is is extreme. Yeah, it's just wild.
Speaker 1:And I think he just embodies like I mean, I think to be the goat you have to be like, almost like this muhammad ali figure in a lot of ways, where I I, I don't know I expect my goat to be outspoken and, like killian, is very active in a lot of things. He's very active in the environment. Now he's running a company in normal. Um, his book is incredible. I don't know if you've ever read his book, uh, summits of my life. It's actually very good. Um, yeah, highly recommend this book. But yeah, there's a lot of things where he kind of just like trans. He's one of the few people, along with courtney, that has ever transcended the sport you know who is actually on this question?
Speaker 1:um, just because, like you know, you've raced in europe, you've you've met a lot of runners like who is your female mountain running goat?
Speaker 2:um, I would like hillary, do you know hillary gerardi?
Speaker 1:yeah, she's also american.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she's been someone who's been crushing it on the sky running world series for a long time, um, and she, uh, last year broke emma. Uh, yeah, emily forsberg's.
Speaker 1:FKT on Mont Blanc which is wild.
Speaker 2:She's a really good schema athlete as well. So I say, hillary, she's up there. I mean, I'm trying to think.
Speaker 1:I've been following her for a while. She's a black diamond athlete. Yeah, she's cool, she's a crusher.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I'll go with her. I think, yeah, hillary, I think you, you know, she's lived in france for like the last, I don't know 10 or 15 years or something, so she gets kind of forgotten about in the american running scene. They're like dude, she's, she's the one who's like been crushing it on an international stage. And then I think the other person I would say is ruth croft. Yeah, she, a lot of range there. I didn't know this, but she had won like trophy okima back in the day, really, yeah. And then she's won, I think, occ and ccc. She's won western states. She's got incredible range too yeah, um fellow kiwi.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, shut up is that something you ever consider like one of the distances of terawara?
Speaker 2:no, tarawara is too flat yeah, I know, that's why I was curious but new zealand does have some really cool sky races, uh, in like january and february. So so it's some point in my life I'm I'm gonna have to go out there and do those races down in the south island. Yeah, I'd love to do that, but absolutely yeah do you?
Speaker 1:um, is your plan to like base out of missoula for at least for the summer, and stuff like that, or yeah?
Speaker 2:yeah, I'll, I'm, I'm pretty much permanently moving to missoula for at least for the summer and stuff like that. Or, yeah, yeah, I'm, I'm pretty much permanently moving to missoula for the foreseeable future. Yeah, um, part of the reasons like, uh, well, my mom is there, I've got really good training group and really good friends in missoula. Um, more so like living in alamosa for the past on and off, but mainly for the past 10 years has been awesome. But it's like you, just you have to drive everywhere from alamosa, yeah, to get to the mountains and, like, as much as I love the sangres, it's like unrealistic to think that I can continue to drive for like an hour every day to get to mountains. It's being in missoula is like such a luxury. It's just right out your front door and you don't have to drive around so much. So, um, yeah, that's probably the main reason. Uh, being in Missoula seems a bit more, more, uh, it's the move right now on that.
Speaker 1:I'm glad I brought. I'm glad I brought this up. Talk to me about the treadmill challenge.
Speaker 2:Cool. Yeah, treadmill challenge is the most painful race I've ever run. It's just you're in this really small room, it's just a running store the Runner's Edge in Missoula and it's three treadmills, they put it at 12% incline and for 10 minutes it's whoever can run the farthest. It's amazing and, yeah, it gets really hot and sweaty in there because there's like over 100 people just screaming and it's such a cool. It's like a classic Missoula race, I think, like Jim Walmsley did it back in the day.
Speaker 1:Did he Wow?
Speaker 2:And Adam Peterman's won it, you know, many years in a row and it's like anyone from Missoula who's anyone has done that race at some point.
Speaker 1:Wow, it's really cool, it's all a fundraiser for uh missoula youth homes and oh, just an awesome event.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and so it's.
Speaker 2:Uh, it's really painful um but it's like different right, like different yep yep, so there's uh six guys and six women, okay, and uh, you sort of take the top top three from each heat and then they duke it out the end battle. Yeah, but man, it's, it's tough. Yeah, that race was uh. Yeah, you're at 12 percent incline but it feels like you're just running on a flat surface. Yeah, you're going as fast as you can and yeah, it's painful, but it's awesome, it's so cool and it's so funny how, like, like, the treadmill challenge this year at hell was like I did it, ed and peterman did it, chris brown did it. Yeah, dude's been like top 10 at western states. Um, crusher, uh, this guy cody moore. Um, then uh, dawson, nope, did it. He's like this, uh, former professional nordic skier, oh wow, uh, this guy mitch, he crushed it. So it's like, just it's. It's like this tiny little race in Missoula, but yeah, guys are just it's super competitive. It's hilarious how competitive it gets.
Speaker 1:That's amazing. Yeah, what's did Peterman win at the Shurer? Yes, did he. Yeah, wow.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's wild man. He's back dude.
Speaker 1:He's back at it. He won the Antelope Island 50K. He's demolished the course record. Of course.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it'll be sweet. He's going to be running canyons coming up this month.
Speaker 1:Dude, there's a world where we're, there's a high probability world where we could get Peterman and Jim in Western States this year. Not only that, but also Jonathan Alathan, albin, john albin, who's also an animal yeah I mean hayden hawks yeah dude, that is gonna be a race to watch.
Speaker 2:Oh, it's gonna be the best western states since the killian anton dad. Uh, jiff rose is jiff rose yeah, it's jiff rose.
Speaker 1:Yeah, unbreakable year you know whatever.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh, I'm so excited for it, did I have to?
Speaker 1:make a film. Oh my gosh yeah what's the lady side looking like? I'm trying to think of who I know. Katie scheid, I think, is coming back. Courtney's not coming back, I think. I mean I would, I would be. You know, I'd love to see katie scheid, especially going after or going under the course record last year.
Speaker 2:I'd love to see her yeah, you know, yeah, um man, I don't know as much of the woman's side. Yeah, dude, what a year it's gonna be. I'm so excited.
Speaker 1:Some research, yeah it's just like and I know this is like, sorry people, I know this is a sub ultra podcast, but damn, is that not a fun? You know, those people are so fun to follow and, like that, sport is just so so fun to follow yeah, wisdom say it's just fun.
Speaker 2:It's like, uh, I always watch that every year.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, it gets me really excited, excited yeah I usually go out and get my like run in the morning and kind of like it's like I'll wake up, watch the start, go get my run, come back, hop on the treadmill and just like kind of relax and just watch it and that's what it's just so much fun yeah, yeah, that's cool yeah yeah, um, all right, dude, one more question.
Speaker 1:I got for you actually a couple more questions. Um, I really want to dive into your relationship and, like your thought on competition, you seem very relaxed, very reserved, but I, I, you're a, so that's what I want to dive into a little bit Dissect, that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think, um, I like to think that races are like it's like the time that I it's like it's like a performance, right, and so racing is the accumulation of all this training that I've done and it's like the one time I get to like really express myself through this form of racing. Um, and I it makes it really hard when races go poorly, cause I feel like, you know, if you're like an artist and you make a bad song or you make a shitty painting or something, you're like disappointed in yourself, and that's how I feel like if I have a bad race, I'm like I was like this like thing that I've created. You know it was like not good, but then when a race goes well, it's like really fun to think that you've like created this, this like masterpiece in a way or something like that yeah.
Speaker 2:Not quite a masterpiece, but just like, yeah, it's like you're, it represents yourself. And so I feel like when I race I like to just go um like really hard and just try to give it my all and it's uh, yeah, it's like it's like that. One time you get to just give it everything.
Speaker 1:And so the competition side of it, like I don't think I'm that competitive of a person, Um, no, I look at a start list and shit like that before, just kind of like in yourself or yeah, I don't, I don't think about it too much, like I'm not on the starting line, like looking at manuel and being like oh, oh man, I mean I know he's probably gonna beat me.
Speaker 2:At least last year that was my, that was my thought. But, um, I don't know, I just like to give it. Give it everything I've got. I mean it's kind of a generic answer, but no, no, I appreciate it, it's like. It's like, um, I don't know like I love like musicians and artists, and in a way that's kind of like what trail running is for me or mountain running. It's like your expression of yourself and everything you've put into it.
Speaker 1:Love that, yeah that's a good answer. I want to get a little technical on um. I just want to like dive a little bit more because I know, you know you're a sportiva athlete on like, what kind of shoes do you race? And I've seen you race in the captiva. I've seen you race like. I've seen photos of you was at the cyclone as well yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's sort of been my go-to shoe for the past couple years in races um. Last year I think I raced in the mutant um. Oh, really in europe, but it was that shoes's a little too heavy yeah, I love the mutant.
Speaker 2:It's one of my favorite shoes, but it's just is very heavy yeah, that's mutant's probably my favorite training shoe, just gets so durable so it lasts forever, um, but I think in, yeah, in the last couple years I've just raced in the cyclone, um, I just like that shoe a lot. It's like super responsive and I feel like that's the a lot. It's like super responsive and I feel like that's the shoe, that it's like lightweight so you can run well uphill, super grippy rubber and it's just like super solid on the downhills. So I've really liked that shoe and it's got that little built-in gaiter.
Speaker 2:I've never worn it, so that's why I want to snag myself a pair oh yeah, you should, it's good. And want to oh yeah, you should, it's good. And it's got like that little gator. It's not much of a gator, but it's just enough to keep the rocks out, um and like after a race, like the minotaur.
Speaker 1:You see, everyone's shoes are like super torn up and the cyclone's like solid it's great sportiva makes such durable shoes man, they do yeah, um, dude, I just got. I finally snagged a pair of the prodigios god how do? You like them. I haven't tried them yet. Fucking love that shoe so much.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I gotta get my hands on it, yeah dude, definitely put in order.
Speaker 1:They're so nice. Yeah, um, just, it's a how do I say this? I mean there's a plate in it, but the stability is great. Like you can't tell there's a plate, the foam is amazing. The ride is great, um, like I said, super stable, like handled handles. Great on technical terrain.
Speaker 2:In fact, I've only taken it on pretty rocky trails so far since I've taken it out, um, and it's fast it's definitely like, probably the better, probably the best sportiva running shoe I've tried yeah, you know, I think every running shoe company now at least they're making shoes that are really suited to the utmb race series and I think that sportiva's answer to that 100 is a prodigio.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it seems like the perfect shoe you'd want to wear for that race I think once the word gets out and people realize I think when because I know they haven't, like I don't know and I don't know if it's like supply chain or what, because I haven't, like super announced it yet they're out there in the world. But, like, once people really do get their foot on it, like I think people are, it's going to be a super popular shoot.
Speaker 2:It's going to be even harder to get a hold of. Yeah, yeah, um, yeah, I mean, I think they only like very, very recently, just released it for sale. They did, yeah, sorry, I guess less than a month ago, or something like that. Yeah, so, all right.
Speaker 1:Last question, man. Uh, especially because you're an alamosa guy and the san luis valley is like wild for aliens, what's your take on these aliens?
Speaker 2:it's interesting. I've uh, I don't I've never had like a personal experience where I've like had like any type of encounter or felt like I saw a ufo or something. But pretty much anyone that's lived in the san luis valley for long enough has some sort of story. Um, there's like this uh story about uh sparky the horse and uh give it a google, google search. It's like this horse that was like mutilated in a way that uh was like impossible to have been performed by humans at the time. This was back in like the 1950s, I think. Oh wow, I always love that story. It's like kind of gruesome, but it's like the brain was removed but the skull was completely intact.
Speaker 1:What Like?
Speaker 2:wild stuff. Yeah, I can't remember all the details.
Speaker 1:I'm Googling that after this.
Speaker 2:It was totally trippy yeah, and it's like know, at a time when it was just like some rancher was just like what the hell happened here? My poor horse yeah, so little accounts like that. It's, it's funky and it really suits the san luis valley vibe of just like yeah it's out there. It's funky, it's weird, but it's so good. Yeah, dude, but I love it interesting valley.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, cool man, all right. Well, is there anything else you want to dive into?
Speaker 2:No, nothing really Just. I think. One thing I want to say is everyone should go for the 10-mile traverse.
Speaker 1:All right.
Speaker 2:Someone should go for it. I really want to see that time drop.
Speaker 1:Kyle Richardson. Kyle is so amazing. Yeah, kyle Richardson, kyle Richardson, go for it dude, Give it another shot. Hell yeah, dude give it another shot.
Speaker 2:Hell um, noah williams. Yeah, local colorado guys. Hell yeah, I'm calling you out go for it all right all right.
Speaker 1:Um dude, do you want to shoot some plugs out?
Speaker 2:uh, plug your instagram and oh sure, yeah, uh, I don't even know what my instagram handle is, uh, I don't know just jackson cole. It's likeR Cole with two E's or something like that. I'll put it in the in the outro Might have to do that, I don't know. Follow me on Strava, I don't know Hell yeah.
Speaker 2:I like. That's probably my most active social media platform, strava. Yeah, I'm not a huge social media guy, but I be posting a lot more. Come the come the racing season, have something to talk about. So, yeah, shoot me a follow on instagram yeah, cool man.
Speaker 1:Well, dude, thank you so much for coming on. Yeah, thank you. Hopefully this is definitely not the last time. We'll have you on next time you come out. So, yeah, dude, I really appreciate it. Sweet thanks, man. What'd you guys think? I told you this was an absolute banger of an episode. Uh, jackson is just such a good dude and just has so many nuggets of wisdom, uh, that you can extract. I mean, really, really fun, was interesting getting into his of an episode. Jackson is just such a good dude and just has so many nuggets of wisdom that you can extract. I mean, really, really fun, was interesting getting into his training and what he does specifically for to prep for a lot of these sky races, just because their modality is a little bit different with the steep stuff a pun intended there. The dude is just your professionals. Professional. I want to give him, go ahead and give some plugs on the way out. You can find him on Instagram. You're going to find him at J J a Y R Cole C O L E.
Speaker 2:E.
Speaker 1:Go ahead and look him up on Instagram, give him a follow and let him know what you guys thought of the episode. Like I said, he's a wealth of information and a really good dude, so shoot him a DM, let him know what you thought and, uh, definitely, go ahead and give him a follow. Um, yeah, I hope you guys enjoyed this one, episode seven of the steep stuff podcast. Until next time, thank you. We'll see you next time.