The Steep Stuff Podcast
Dr. Sean Rimmer PT, DPT, OCS - Run Potential PT | Navigating & Identifying Bone Stress Injuries
Ever wondered how trail runners safeguard their bones while pounding the tough terrain or how marathoners fine-tune those last few weeks before the big race? Sean Rimmer from Run Potential PT joins us again to shed light on these pressing issues. Together, we tackle the nitty-gritty of bone stress injuries—from spotting the early signs to understanding the complex gradations—and Sean walks us through his own tapering rituals that help peak performance when it matters most.
The debate on whether to pump up the jams or embrace nature's soundtrack while running is as old as the hills we conquer. We dive into this contentious topic, weighing the uplift music can provide against the need for trail awareness and etiquette. Prepare for heartening tales from running events that bind our community tighter, and insights on why lacing up your shoes might just be the first step towards forming meaningful connections and finding fulfillment in the great outdoors.
As our conversation journeys on, we wind down paths less traveled, pondering the mental and spiritual facets of running. From runners who embody the grit of the sport to the more whimsical mysteries of moon landing conspiracies and the elusive Bigfoot, this episode is a tapestry of tales that bridges the metaphysical with the physical. So, join us for a run of the mind, and don't forget to reach out to Sean with your thoughts and help this podcast community grow by sharing your own stories and feedback.
IG - @runpotentialpt
www.runpotentialpt.com
Ever wondered how trail runners safeguard their bones while pounding the tough terrain or how marathoners fine-tune those last few weeks before the big race? Sean Rimmer from Run Potential PT joins us again to shed light on these pressing issues. Together, we tackle the nitty-gritty of bone stress injuries—from spotting the early signs to understanding the complex gradations—and Sean walks us through his own tapering rituals that help peak performance when it matters most.
The debate on whether to pump up the jams or embrace nature's soundtrack while running is as old as the hills we conquer. We dive into this contentious topic, weighing the uplift music can provide against the need for trail awareness and etiquette. Prepare for heartening tales from running events that bind our community tighter, and insights on why lacing up your shoes might just be the first step towards forming meaningful connections and finding fulfillment in the great outdoors.
As our conversation journeys on, we wind down paths less traveled, pondering the mental and spiritual facets of running. From runners who embody the grit of the sport to the more whimsical mysteries of moon landing conspiracies and the elusive Bigfoot, this episode is a tapestry of tales that bridges the metaphysical with the physical. So, join us for a run of the mind, and don't forget to reach out to Sean with your thoughts and help this podcast community grow by sharing your own stories and feedback.
IG - @runpotentialpt
www.runpotentialpt.com
Hey guys, welcome back to the steep stuff podcast. I'm your host, james Lauriello, and today we've got a banger of an episode. My buddy, sean Rimmer, um, the owner of run potential PT, returns to the pod. Uh, for round two. We get into a lot of fun stuff. We talk about bone stress injuries. We get into Sean's upcoming season. We talk about his marathon that he's about to, are in the process of tapering down for, and then we just talk a bunch of shit. We get into all kinds of fun stuff.
Speaker 1:I think the biggest part of this episode is very PT related. We get into a lot of interesting stuff surrounding stress fractures, edemas, things like that that are common injuries that especially runners who take a little break in the winter and start to increase their mileage as the season ramps up start to see. So stress fracture stuff related. We talk about signs of stress fractures, um, all kinds of fun stuff. It's a it's a fun episode. Sean is just a wealth, of absolute wealth of knowledge. Um, I think you guys are going to really enjoy this one. Round two is an absolute banger. Here we go, Round two, sean Rimmer. We'll be right back. Ladies and gentlemen, we are live.
Speaker 1:That's good. Booked out for a while. Yeah, dude. Dude how'd you feel on that run today? I was looking at those splits and I was like damn son dude moves fast on the flats. Now he's uh.
Speaker 2:I was like I kept looking.
Speaker 1:I felt really bad. I kept looking over my shoulder to make sure our friend was with us. I was like dude I. I felt really bad. I kept looking over my shoulder to make sure uh, make sure our friend was with us and I was like I was like dude Sean's and dropped me. Yeah.
Speaker 2:That flowy section near the off the inclines, like that felt great Cause it's like gradual up, gradual down, but like for me being on the roads recently it felt much more natural than like the incline. Cardio felt pretty good. But like my legs were, like my quads were burning real good on that and like we weren't, we were going at a fair pace but it wasn't like anything crazy.
Speaker 1:But I was like, oh man, like I want to get these mountain legs back I mean, dude, I, I was looking at down on my watch, uh, and I didn't look at it till like after the fact because I didn't think we were moving that fast and I looked at the, the gap, the great adjusted pace it was like 650, great adjusted pace Okay so it was like 723 miles, something like that.
Speaker 2:I was like all right, like we're moving pretty well, so the part we were running the single track. Okay, I didn't even look, but I was like it just felt.
Speaker 1:We were feeling good, yeah, I was, I was grooving.
Speaker 2:It was this well, that's about right, because 650 is like my goal marathon pace. So it's like I'm so dialed into like around that pace right now that like mechanically it just feels like natural where it's like I'm working.
Speaker 1:But I'm not, it's not like that hard because of all the training, so I was like I just kind of that makes sense, it flowed right into it you know it was really nice was when we uh started hitting the climbs on newt pass trail, like those, those steep climbs, and it was just nice to have someone to like kind of roll with on those, because I was like, are you gonna break me? Am I gonna break you? Like what are we doing here?
Speaker 2:like I kept looking over. I was like shit. Well, sometimes it's like the strategy of do I let him just get a little head, so then hold on, he can slow down a little bit, or do I have to like push and then he put. It's like, yeah, the cat and mouse game it.
Speaker 1:It was fun. It was definitely fun. Nah, dude, today that's my route, man, I don't want to give too much away on that, too much beta on that, but like that's my it's good. That's my Cirque series pre-race jam.
Speaker 2:One of my favorite routes and usually it's like this time of it, but not the whole thing, because the snow yeah, but like when that thaws out, a few more weeks probably, depending on well, depending on what happens here but the I go, I like going up the saint mary's falls and then up to the saddle and then like I'll, either I'll tag the peak or just do the saddle in the loop on the back side. That brings you, okay, like frosties and pipeline trail and like it gets. It's so fun.
Speaker 1:That's exactly what I was on was pipeline like after seven bridges. Yes, yeah, we just kept going straight on seven bridges kind of like crossed over the stream, made a left and just kept going and like pipelines pretty flat.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's not too bad, it's a fun section um, and then when you cross over the pipeline, I feel like that was where that north side was all snowed in. But what I thought was cool was, if you just keep going straight on that, you could take that to almagre. Yeah, that's what I want to do which is like that.
Speaker 2:Frosty's intersection is where the road starts. You can link back up into the road to go up almagre okay, okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, dude, that's a spot man, we got it. We'll do that this summer. I never been on El Magre before, so there's, so it's pretty cool.
Speaker 2:I mean there's the road, but there's also some other like more. You might like this more like direct lines up El Magre, which, like the road's cool, but like, if you like the steep stuff look you can do that route, so that'll be.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'd be happy to get out there and explore more of that this summer, sweet man. So welcome back to the podcast. We are live guys.
Speaker 2:We are uh guys and gals we are live with the great and powerful sean remmer. Always a great introduction. I appreciate it yeah, man.
Speaker 1:So what's going on, dude, how you doing these days just tired of road training.
Speaker 2:We've talked about this today and marathons. Now she geez like three, four, three and a half weeks out, four weeks really. So it's May 26. So four weeks closing in baby which is great, like totally ready. I'm like still excited about it and it'll be fun to be back at sea level. But man, like this time of the year when things are starting to thaw out, gets green.
Speaker 1:I just want to trails yeah, well, the fitness translated dude you're, you're fit, I was. I was really stoked to see because, like you said, you did a long run yesterday you end a long run.
Speaker 2:So, like I ran, you know, prospect lake, yeah or so fairly flat, so I was just doing like pace work on that and it was a long run. So I end up doing 18, okay.
Speaker 1:So so you came into it probably pretty tired I was wiped today so like, and when you and you kept the pace honest. So I was like it's like all right, baby, let's do this. Yeah, it was fun.
Speaker 2:It was just fun for me like obviously easy, moderate effort today at times, but like it was, it's just so fun to be out on the trails again and like it's good to be with other people because I'm being alone. Training all the time does get a little lonely.
Speaker 1:So it was like nice to have some friendly faces. Oh, it was nice, it was good, good route today. So, dude, four weeks out, what's? Uh, what's the timeline for tapering? Like, when are you gonna start tapering now?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so definitely I've thought about this and I think, cause I've had some little minor sensitivities in the lower leg like the past couple months that I've almost had like these sections these week of like down volume which kind of stunk, but I definitely want to at least do that last week of taper and I'm probably gonna end up doing like a week and a half, not like a full two week. So I'll still have some volume like the week before and like some minor intensity to keep the turnover, but nothing to like really shock the system Like I want to feel good.
Speaker 2:I say it's like sharpening the edges right before the race, so like if I just did nothing that week, like, yeah, you're rested, but like you just feel like heavy and off Like you need to do something.
Speaker 2:And then also some like pace work, speed work. You just feel like heavy and off, Like you need to do something. And then also some like pace work, speed work, but just nothing. That's going to over gas me. It's like that's the goal, Um, but these next like two weeks, are pretty big weeks too, with still longer quality run. So exciting would also like they're. They're hard to mentally get through.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, stacking. Do you listen to music at all, or are you just going just listening to your thoughts?
Speaker 2:Both and I stacking. Do you listen to music at all or are you just going just listening to your thoughts? Both? And I'm still deciding on what I want to do for the race. Like I've got all my gear dialed in, like nutrition, like what I'm gonna wear, but the music's something I go back and forth. I'm like, do I want to use music because there is a performance enhancement? I think to it, but it's also good for me to be in tune with, like my body, my rhythm, my breathing, yeah, and so I'm still debating on that.
Speaker 1:So my workouts, my long runs, have been music and without I'm just not, yeah sure yet so I used to run with a lot of music and, like over the past like three months, I've like almost completely cut it out other than yeah, other than like.
Speaker 1:The only days I will incorporate music is if I'm solo with like, if it's like speed work and like I have to get through this and flat, and I hate running on flat, um, and it's like I, you know I got to, you know got to lock down and hammer and like that's, that's the only time I'll put in music now. But like I've even noticed that I was kind of happy today, like when we were running I was like, okay, we're moving pretty moderate effort, um, and like I'm like comfortable with listening to myself breathe, whereas like when I used to run uphill I used to be not very comfortable listening to myself breathe, and I think it was because I was just so used to having music, in that you kind of freak out a little bit and you're kind of gauging your effort.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's kind of weird right.
Speaker 2:There's some physiology to that too, right? So like your brain's perceiving everything internally and externally, and so you have that auditory stimulus of you breathing hard, right, If you're on a climb, and so that almost like feeds into your to a point your governor of like whoa, like let's pull it back at times, versus if you're breathing like that still and you have music cause you're not totally in tune with that. I've found that at times I can still push like harder because I don't fully hear that even though I am, and so like there is benefit there. But I think it's, there's value in both. Right, and you're finding that out too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah it's. It's just like I don't know. I've just kind of think about it because, like in it depends, like like longer races, I feel like I can get away with having music in Cause a lot of, even if you're racing up front you're racing kind of alone. It's a little solo. I don't like to talk. I'm not a chatty, cathy, I just put my earphones in. I've been in races where I've had people try to talk to me and I'm like what the fuck are you doing?
Speaker 2:Stop talking to me. It's also your racing.
Speaker 1:I guess it depends on the distance. If you're doing sub-altra stuff you're doing like sub ultra stuff, like that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:You're gonna be running fast example, for the cirque series races and stuff like that. Like I'm not listening to music, no way you shouldn't be able to. If you're, if you're able to talk, especially on the uphill of those races like you're probably not going hard enough too easy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree. So yeah, um, I don't know how we got on this music chant, but yeah, it's, it's pretty cool.
Speaker 2:What I would say on the music too. Just to I was going to say this, but I want to let you finish. Yeah, trail stuff, like I'd much rather not have music, just because I, I around other people like you're more awareness of like what's going on the trail and I think like the trail etiquette piece too, right, If someone don't want to be that.
Speaker 1:My my pet peeve and it's like always around the incline is, you know, like you know what I'm gonna say. So yesterday I was that guy in the incline. Okay, like there was like just, I mean I feel really bad because I don't. I don't mean to come off like a dick, but like yesterday I was, I was shooting for a good time, okay, like I was hammering, and like when there's people on going up and they're like on both sides of the incline and there's like no passing lane, yeah, I'm like dude. I was like, excuse me, hey, I was like yelling, I'm like. You know, part of me wanted to be like get the fuck out of my way, um, but like you know, I was, I was, I was kind, it was nice, you know but I feel like that's where.
Speaker 2:That's where it's like, it's not like, yes, there should be a right of way. Right, it's trial etiquette of getting out of the way. But even on downhills, like and I'm always saying like, hey, coming up on your left or right, like I'm not trying to cause problems.
Speaker 2:But if people are blasting their headphones and like I'm yelling and it's multiple times, and I come up around them and then scare them and they, they trip or fall, like it's like, come on, it's like one, either like one headphone in or like some way, you need to be aware because it's just a safety risk too.
Speaker 1:You know what's even worse than that guy is the guy that's got like the outside speakers, that's like bumping, at least he can hear the house music.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know that guy.
Speaker 1:God damn it like what the hell that's a I have to hate on denver and boulder, but that's like a boulder thing. I don't know or denver thing.
Speaker 2:It's just like a people thing you know, I don't know. I prefer my trails with less people quiet, hence I I don't do the incline that much.
Speaker 1:It's a great, great training tool, but damn, it is such a good training stimulus, though you know I used to hate on the incline and I think I've gotten, just like once I like immersed myself in it and started like going like three times a week. Now, dude, like you just get those mountain legs.
Speaker 2:And that is what I've been chasing for the last like few months, you know you learn how to deal with, like, literally like, the pulsating pain in your legs going up that and like obviously there's the aerobic component too, but man like today factor like for me, like, even though it wasn't like an all-out effort, like aerobically felt good, yeah, but the legs, just like man, like I haven't done this type of training in so long.
Speaker 2:So like quads hurt man. Yeah, yeah, but it was good like it felt good, like I'm glad. I'm glad we did it. Yeah, um, because it's uphill, if anything, so it's like you're not going to get as much damage.
Speaker 1:Exactly. We're not running down it, which I considered at one point I would have said no, I'd be like dude, that's all.
Speaker 1:you do that today, and not today for me dude, and you know it's funny, like when I take so let's say, let's say it's like icy or snowy or even rainy, like I'm kind of careful with running down it, like I'm a little, you know, still kind of like funny with it, but like if I even take like a week off from, not like if I take a week off from running down it, the next time I run down it I'm sore.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's almost like the muscles just really need to adapt to that. Up down it's kind of wild yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and there's like there's been like research to show, like with downhill running too, it's like you say you're doing a downhill race, like you want to be able to do that type of training to prepare, but like a hard effort downhill, like you don't need much of that for your body to have a good stimulus, like even if it's like one or two sessions within a month before, like that's all you really need and and there's just a higher risk of injury If you're like crushing the downhills all the time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, right, you know who opened me up, like opened my mind up to it was jackson.
Speaker 1:When I had him on the jackson call yeah and he was on the pod because he he was just he's so dialed and like his training is so dialed and one of the things like we were talking about was the incline and he goes, yeah, like you can go hard on the uphill, but he goes. Not a lot of people go to hard on the downhill. He's like he was trying to explain to me he goes, you know, for a lot of these races, like, yeah, you could be one of the best uphill climbers there is, uh, but like once you hit the downhill, like there's 20, 30 guys coming to take your spot. You know, and it's just being able, when you're even in training, to commit to the downhill and being not afraid and being ready to do that. And so, like lately, at least like the last few years weeks, I've been just kind of like I don't know, like embodying that ethos and like, just okay, we hit the top and we're sending it off. We're sending it off the top and we're hammering down.
Speaker 1:Now, like yesterday, I felt really good with that on the lungs ranch. I was like man, like like that training stimulus was really good. Um right, yeah, that's. And even today, like I felt, you know, we were just chatting and it was a pretty but it was still like, yeah, it was modest, we were moving pretty well, yeah.
Speaker 2:And I always also think, like I think there's so much truth to that, I think the confidence building mentally, but also like tissue preparedness for, like, running fast downhill versus running easy downhill, like clearly there's a different demand there, but obviously, like you're not doing that every day right, like you space that out because you know how demanding a long, steep downhill is, even though you want to go fast, like it's something you can practice more over time and get better at, but you're not doing that like no daily right. You'd be wrecked.
Speaker 1:This was the first week in a while, like the past, like so, on this block this past week, because I knew I wanted to do like a borderline race effort, on Saturday, I like did something I don't normally do where, like I, I I didn't change my plan at all, I just reduced my volume by like maybe five to 10%. So I got cut out doubles which I I normally do a lot of doubles and reduced my volume by like maybe 10% and moved a few of my workouts to the treadmill and I felt like that actually believe it or not like that little taper had me ready, like I, I I felt amazing on Saturday. So, yeah, I don't know, it's like I'm I'm starting to play around and that like I'm like okay. So if I was able to do that off of that little taper pullback, if you will, I'm very excited for what I can do on like a full taper where my coaches are like you know, this is what we need to do.
Speaker 2:I think there's something to say in a little bit of novelty in training too. Right, if, like these small changes and tweaks, like sometimes, like everyone just responds so differently to training and there's not necessarily a wrong training, it's what's in theory most optimal and obviously like best fitting for the individual but also like sometimes again tweaking a little bit and you can find that, hey, you may have a little or a better outcome with that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's actually true. And it's true, man, like I'll notice, like if I do the inclines in the afternoons, you know, when it's super hot and it's late in the day and it's like you know, three o'clock and it's like 60 or 70 out, like no way I'm never getting the best out of myself at that time. I'm always toasted. I'm after it's after a day of work. It's probably my second workout of the day, so you're not getting a very fast incline, but like I don't know, that will come back on race day and you'll have those legs so you're getting something out of it, just maybe more on that day.
Speaker 2:As much as it's physical. You have the mental piece too, versus like a morning where it's cooler yeah, that's right, that's right.
Speaker 1:So so, yeah, man, what's going on these days, what's happening?
Speaker 2:you know, like they said, the training's going on these days what's happening. You know, like I said, the training's going on Busy with, obviously, my career Like I said, we talked about this last time run potential. Like things are going great and, like I said, just the most fun piece for me is, like the community, like this actually short little story. I think this is fun Because, like it was a blast for me. So short little story, I think this is fun Cause like it was a blast for me. So have you heard of the Nielsen challenge? No, okay, so it's like a Pikes Peak road runners like event this first Saturday of every month over at like MVP, and it's like a two mile loop, pretty flat, right, so it's always the same. So the intent of it is each month it's like can you get your time down Right, like that's. That was like the original goal. Now everyone runs it differently. So typically I try to like I'll push on that if it like fits with my schedule, but with having that long run, quality, long run, I'm like there's no way I'm pushing this um Saturday.
Speaker 2:So what I did, which was way more rewarding. There's two people I work with um, or a couple, and so they have never broken. Like their goal is to break like 30 minutes in a 5k, okay, but even for that race, like they the one, the female hadn't done it yet, but the the gentleman, he had done it in like 2130. So I'm like let's, let's see if we can get under 21 today, like I'm going to pace you, we'll do this together. And man, like it was so fun, like they were working hard and it's two miles, like it's it's short but it's like long if you're getting the most out of yourself.
Speaker 2:And so it was just so fun pacing them. They were breathing hard, I was trying to give them little cues along the way and like, um, man, it was just so rewarding. And like I felt so good after cause they did get the most out of themselves. And like they yeah, they were tired and but like they felt that reward after and, man, that just felt so good. I'm like I need to do this more, like with the people I work with, like like B, if I can like getting out there with them, like being at like their events or, you know, supporting them in a workout, like I know that can get challenging. Obviously there's multitude of people, but also with like everything else going on but like man, that just felt so good.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, it's a reminder of, like, what I'm doing is working and it's rewarding. You know, you're building community.
Speaker 2:That's the most fun part. It's like, of course, like that you're doing your job as a PT and like you're trying to do the best for them and being there for them as a guide. But, man, when you can see them out, like enjoying the actual process, like outside of the clinic or outside of communication, man, I love that. So, hopefully more to come with that. Just, it's the stories, right, it's the people in the stories. That's what makes everything so awesome. Yeah, so yeah, that was, that was a recent little positive.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like man community is so much fun, like I don't know. Ever since I started the pod, like it's just been, I've gotten to meet so many incredible people and I don't know. Um, it just made me realize, like where we live and this area is just so special and like I just were planning on staying here for a while, like it. Just you know, I feel like roots are.
Speaker 2:Roots are definitely anchored here Totally and I felt I've been out here for like eight years now and I I remember when I first like moved out here. It's like you only know so many people, like you work with things like that. But man, like the, how much, how many people I've met over the years and like grown through the different varying communities, like where I've worked, the running people, my wife like works with and and her community, and like just connecting everyone and so many people actually know each other, which is cool. Yeah, that you're like oh, small world it really is connect the dots.
Speaker 1:You know, um, now, dude, I think the same thing. I've kind of related back to the podcast. It's like we've I do. I don't know everybody except for one is a Colorado Springs person for the most part, and it's like most people are aware of everyone but not everybody is super close. And this was something to piggyback off of what Ace had originally or Ace is planning on doing with his run club, with Cut the Cheese and even further to build on. We have such a unique and amazing community and we just need to get more people together, find something to kind of ground. You know this community a little bit more, so I agree.
Speaker 2:I think what what he's doing is awesome and like there's there's other organizations that are doing that, but it's still like finding more ways to connect and I think that's what always people are looking forward to. And it may be intimidating at times but like most trail runners or runners, I know like they're pretty welcoming people. Yes, very, it's just still anything new, feels a little uncomfortable but, like I always tell people this, like your best friends are strangers at one point, like you were a stranger to me at one point and now we're like great friends and it's awesome.
Speaker 2:So just yeah, just got to take the first step, Right?
Speaker 1:I agree, I agree, it's um. Actually it's funny. On the on the drive home today, rose and I were talking about in the car, about like unhappy people and I was like how many people are outdoorsy people that you know that are unhappy and you can't name too many people off your hand. Like I just feel like the outdoors is just something that, um, or just like the trails or just being outside.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's like this primal feeling of just like kind of grounding people and just kind of I don't know. It chills me out a lot.
Speaker 2:You know, there's something to say about like two things to that, right, and we'll say three.
Speaker 2:For me at least, I realized this, and probably for other people too is like the one piece of like the mental health, physical health is like literally moving, like we just don't move enough, right, right. So like moving is one thing, being outdoors even more of a benefit, right, cause we're outdoors, fresh air, sunlight, like there's just so much of a spiritual element to that. And then the community piece, and I think, if we have those three things, hence what trail running can do, or just running in general, man, like, yeah, it just boosts how you feel, it boosts your mood, and there's so much to that, yeah, like, even looking at COVID, right, like how debilitating that was because people were indoors, people weren't doing anything, they didn't think they could do things, but you could go outside, still, you could, you could rock, you could run, you could get out into trails. It was just more of like the things that were enclosed, that were limited, but I think people still steered away from that it was an interesting catalyst for our sport.
Speaker 1:I mean, obviously it was absolute horrible time in the world, but I think, like the outdoor sports in general like kind of benefited from it because more people got outside, got to do things found. You know, I think the biggest thing for me because I'm always like the biggest critic of, like corporate life, even though I'm a member of it, I'm sorry, I do like to shit on corporate life a lot, even though I'm I'm a hypocrite.
Speaker 1:Listen but, that said, I think that people realize that, like work life balance really matters in a lot of ways and more people started taking more vacation time, or taking more time to get outside, or taking their lunch break just to go for a walk, you know. And I think those things just, you know, not just for your physical health but, like you said, like for the mental health component, like just having that break in your day to just get outside and just like listen to the fucking birds, you know.
Speaker 2:Best thing, Seriously so good, dude, Underrated. First thing in the morning that's what I do. It's like go downstairs, let my dog out make the coffee and like stand outside, get like that early sun but also the birds tripping, and it just resets me for the day.
Speaker 1:It's like my meditation piece, Dude it's kind of like a sub story, kind of a side quest here, but I raced this race the Sanger to Chris, 27k a long time ago and I met this guy, luke Wempy. Look him up on Instagram everybody and he is he's. He's got this really interesting like outdoorsy plus like whole health component to it he's basically a creator.
Speaker 1:He's an Instagram creator, okay, but he's like he, he is just a huge proponent of just like. He lives in westcliff and the dude just like takes these walks in the middle of like negative 20 degree weather, in the snow, and he's like walking shirtless, with his beard and his long hair and like, just like chatting about like why you need to be grounded and why you need, and he's like walking barefoot in the snow. Dude, it's got. Now. He's a little extreme, all right, don't get me, don't get me wrong but like just those types of things where I'm like. And his diet he's always been a proponent of particular diets, just don't eat shit, basically. But yeah, anyway, I don't know where I went on this tangent, the extreme side. That guy inspired me Listening to his things every morning. He always gives these good stories about being grounded to Earth and then he'll pan his camera over to the C, the cresto needle in the distance.
Speaker 2:I'm like yes, it's a great mountain. No, that's a cool area to be. It's definitely a it's. There's some interesting towns and communities around the sangre's, but, like man, you're like still in the sangre's, so such a cool range underrated range so good, yeah, we were talking about that on the run today.
Speaker 1:We got to get out there this summer.
Speaker 2:Um, oh for sure, yeah, we'll get you a better time on the needle.
Speaker 1:Gotta get on. Humboldt again, I do want to get on. I've never been on blanca either. Gotta get on blanca.
Speaker 2:That's the thing. It's like I've wanted to do that one, but I was like I love the. I love the approaches on a lot of like the higher peaks that have like more of the dirt, like the foresty, and then like you're in the rock, but it's still like good, I don't know, I just don't love the huge like rocky fields and it almost seems like blotch.
Speaker 1:It's like that yeah, yeah, it just didn't seem as aesthetically pleasing to me, especially being for a long one yeah, yeah, no, I I think you're right and blanca blanca's a lot of that once you get above.
Speaker 2:It's like rock road. Yeah, yeah, oh, you're right, and Blanca Blanca is a lot of that, once you get above.
Speaker 1:It's like rock road. Yeah, yeah, oh, you're talking about coma road.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's um. No, I just think the needle is just such an aesthetic line like just a, just a beautiful peak, um, and there's like more than one route to get up it, and you know there's a lot of fucking cool mountain, um, and the peak too, you know. And then there's that traverse, which is one of the best traverses ever, yeah, so yeah, it's definitely definitely high on the list for the summer.
Speaker 2:For sure, a lot, of, a lot of things to look forward to, yeah dude, so let's dive into um.
Speaker 1:one of the things I know what we wanted to talk about was some injuries and some different things. I know we wanted to talk about P2Y, so some injuries and some different things.
Speaker 2:I know we wanted to talk about PTY, so I'll let you take it from there, sweet. So, yeah, I wanted to obviously talk about more. So on the bone side today, just just as runners in general trail, road, whatever type of running it's just such a common injury we see and I think there's just a lot of misconceptions but also lack of understanding and there's a lot of good stuff that's come out in the literature and in education the past, like five to 10 years, and so I think we're finally catching up where more people are aware of it. But there's still these old thoughts, especially for people not in that field, and so obviously bringing some stuff to light would be helpful. Well, let me ask you this first, because this is what I want to talk about. So bone stress injuries. When you, if you hear that term, like what do you think? Stress fracture? Okay, yeah, you're not wrong. So if you think bone stress injuries like stress fracture is a piece of that on a continuum right, a stress fracture is where there's actually an appreciated fracture line in the bone, whatever site it is seen on imaging right, especially MRI, like that's the gold standard where you can really see that stuff. But that's just one piece of it and really what the research has shown more recently is there is a continuum right. So we have these grades and there's a few different grading systems, but the one that's more appreciated in the literature is this grade one through four. And so a four is a stress fracture. We just said the grade one through three is similar onto that stress reaction right, where there's no fracture line yet but there's swelling or edema around the bone and so, based on the amount of swelling or edema in the bone, that tells us the degree. If it's grade one, which is the lowest end, or up to a grade three or beyond with the fracture line. And so when you see like imaging findings come back saying stress reaction, that's usually where we're at.
Speaker 2:I'll often catch a lot of those with people because stress fractures. If you end up having one of those, usually it's like all right, you're like you're having pain not only with running but you're having pain standing, walking, like there's a higher level of concern there. Where people are like something's wrong, where things get a little mudded, is when they're at those lower grades, those one to threes, where there's some pain but it's like well, you can still run a little bit or maybe you don't have that much pain with walking. It's kind of variable, and that's where, if we can catch those early with a sound exam, we can prevent a longer recovery, right, and so that's. Those are the. That's where I catch a lot of people. Um, and so, yeah, if we can intervene sooner the better, but anyway, so we have those grades right. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1:to you. Okay, yeah, and the reason I think this is a great topic to discuss, especially and I'm going to tie this in a little bit with we're coming out of the winter, right, a lot of people do winter sports. Maybe they're skiers, maybe they're set a little more sedentary during the winter. Now that everything's starting to melt out, a lot of people are on the trails, a lot of people are running for these objectives during the summer.
Speaker 2:So, with people ramping up their mileage, I feel like this is such a common thing that we'll begin to see, you know, totally going from right, less running, or like less impact loading activities, like, or people who are even doing, like obviously, the skiing, but swimming, cycling, right, where we just you're having that cardio engine still, but we don't have like the loading to the tissue, right. And so I guess, on the preventative side, right, if the biggest things like indicators of, like bone health, right is all right, there's a genetic component, right. Like if you're, if you have usually more muscle mass, like there's a likelihood that there's going to be a potential higher density of bone, like you see people, oh, like they're a thicker human, like there's bigger bone structure, um, like usually, usually bone density will be a little bit more there, and so, like that's an important piece. But also like what did you do growing up?
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Were you playing sports, ball sports? Were you doing all these different activities where you got that good bone loading and bone health Cause? That's where it's like super important.
Speaker 2:And I always ask this before I work with someone, like what did you do growing up?
Speaker 2:Like, did you play sports, was it running, did you do these things?
Speaker 2:Cause that helped me get a lens into if they're coming in for something, especially if we're looking at bone related issues, if they had done some of that stuff or not, because there's a higher indication of maybe there's less quality bone density, things like that, right, so like that's important. But also running is just not also a very bone stimulating activity. Really, the first minute or so of running, like we stimulate our bones and after that it just kind of like eh, this isn't like that stimulating for me and it kind of like shuts things off, it doesn't really adapt to it. And because running is so high energy demand, right, most of us are getting the heart rate up a little bit at times, right, and so because of the energy demand we're utilizing, right, carbohydrate fuel that that that deficit over time can also lead to bone health issues, because bone is very metabolic in nature and it requires a high amount of sugar and glucose to to function, especially like around the pelvis tailbone well, this is a, this is a very I mean that goes into sacral stress fractures.
Speaker 1:A hundred percent Right.
Speaker 2:So if we think about like different areas, right, so like the higher we get up to our pelvis, low back, hips, those bones are more higher energy demand. So like, if someone has a low energy, like if they're over-training under fueling, like they get away with that for so long if they're starting to get pain that comes up in the groin and the low back right, there's a huge red flag there that, okay, we got to know more about what's going on with the feeling, how are they feeling with the energy levels. To figure out, like if we need to take the next step to get imaging and get this solved, cause I've seen so many times where people come in with back pain not necessarily in my clinic, but in the past and they're like they don't ask that stuff. I think there's just so much more you need to know about the situation before you make this diagnosis of like, oh, you have piriformis syndrome or you know, you just have a low, mechanical, low back pain. Like it's different with runners.
Speaker 2:We have to understand there's a difference in what's going on versus just someone who's like maybe a gym goer or doing a different activity, yeah, and so like that, putting the pieces together, I think is fun for me, yeah dude and complicated very but like this is stuff like I've learned a lot more about the past few years and because I I I seeing it more, so I really want to just be as much, have as much knowledge as possible, but you're still always learning, because nothing's also black and white, yeah Right, like the, the thought is with bone related injuries that, like typically, bone starts to feel like if you, if you're having a bone related injury and you're doing more on it, it's going to progressively get worse.
Speaker 2:But sometimes you'll feel like it's a little worse in the beginning of a run and then things aren't really that bad and then it comes on later getting the day. So understanding the ebbs and flows of how the bone related pain behaves is really important too. It's not this just linear the more you do, the more pain it is. That's not always the case, yeah, so it's just kind of dialing those things in. That's interesting.
Speaker 1:I um, probably shouldn't say this, but like I I it's not that like I have a lot, like I have, I don't know, in the left leg for somewhere up then in the like in my hip, it's a lower back and pelvis it pops up a little bit. You're making me nervous now, dude have you seen it?
Speaker 2:but have you seen any? Have you noticed any patterns to that?
Speaker 1:no, okay, like a little bit after the run, like it'll pop up every now and then, but like it's it's once in a blue moon and then I'll just rest it and it'll be okay.
Speaker 2:You know usually and a lot of times it pops up from flat running.
Speaker 2:Dude fucking, I hate flat running hence, yeah, you don't need to do it, you can pick and choose. Right, if it's something that's like every now and again blue moon, like that's not shocking, I mean if, if there was more of a pattern to it, like there'd be a little, maybe a little more concern, yeah. But if it's so variable, like you don't feel it for a few weeks and then maybe a little bit again, then it goes away like not as big of an issue, at least in my eyes, just from hearing that little anecdote. Yeah, but still something to start paying attention I might come visit you soon.
Speaker 1:Let's figure it out. Maybe it's your ankle, who knows? Dude, oh my god, I'm a mess. Um, one of the things I I, if you wouldn't mind, diving a little deeper into is how, as a pt, they're able to identify these different grades. If you will, the stress fracture it's a great question.
Speaker 2:So do actually identify the grades. That would definitely need to be through an mri, because it's we just can't detect that. But clinically, the different symptoms, with what I put people through through like a loading test, can help identify, like, how irritable the tissue is. And so first thing is always like the history, right, we talked about what's the training been like. How long have symptoms been going on? Like, typically, what I'll see for a lot of these injuries is like they're doing some sort of training, builder block, right, and they've been ramping up intensity for volume and intensity maybe for weeks and then, like this, four or five, six, seven, week, at that time that something starts to pop up. But looking back, it's like they did jump up. And the other thing is the fueling piece of that right, like are people actually fueling enough? Because most people, a lot of people, aren't. I talk to yeah, and so I think part of it's just like a lack of understanding. So, listening to that, but also from them, how it behaves, right, is it painful when you're walking? Is it painful when you're running? How does it behave throughout the runs? Is it painful with anything else? That starts to give me insight into my brain on what I want to specifically test.
Speaker 2:The biggest thing for bone, of course, is how they do with loading. So, for example, and I just saw someone recently who we got imaging checked out and there was a stress reaction in their um distal fibula, which is like the lower leg bone on the outside. Okay, so not a terrible area to have a bone related injury because those do heal fairly well. But, like our exam, like no pain with walking right now. But the person was feeling some tension on the backside there that I thought like the muscle was tight. Sometimes you'll see that because it's your brain's way of protecting, right. People always think, oh, like tension here, I need to stretch it. Sometimes your body's doing that for a reason. We should listen to that Right. So like that was her symptom. She had some pain with running, but it wasn't too bad at times, sometimes it was okay, sometimes it was worse.
Speaker 2:But when we really looked at the exam, like the big takeaway for this person was when we were doing hopping right, I tested the tendons around the ankle and like they were strong and non-painful and different loading progressions and even like specific calf raise work and calf loading like not too bad. But when we started doing hopping from both legs to single leg and there was caution there and that pain was like I mean I'm like all right, we need to stop. This is a little bit more concerning, especially since the area was pretty local, like bone, especially in the lower leg, cause the bone is a little more superficial than up by, like hips, femur. There's more meat there If you can palpate the bone or press on the bone, and it's like in a small area, like under five centimeters, like there's a higher likelihood that there's a, that potentially there's bone related issue versus like other tissue. Yeah, and also knowing the anatomy of like the outside of the ankle right, there's not much there it's bone.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's a few muscle and tendons and like some neural tissue but like otherwise it's not as complex as maybe.
Speaker 1:Like the thigh which we have a lot more tissue.
Speaker 2:So it's kind of putting those pieces together and saying like, hey, I'm, I have a suspicion that this is what's going on, but we really need to know the degree of it from the MRI and then we can kind of talk about there from game plan when we need to offload it and for how long and how we can return to running and start building that bone tissue back up. So that's kind of how the assessment type would go, figuring out again what tissue and what's the severity and where we need to go from there with imaging.
Speaker 1:Gotcha, gotcha, would you mind? Sorry not to pivot too much, no, please. So big question that I have is just just and just, because I know we tapped on this a little bit on the last podcast, um, but I'd like to dive a little bit more deeper into um, just the relationship with diet and like the needs of you said there was glucose needs and certain like that things like that, like for the pelvis area and for, like, sacral area and things like that. Would you mind diving into that a little bit? Yeah?
Speaker 2:for sure. So when we think of glucose, that's like our body's use of energy. Glucose is like the basic model of carbohydrate or sugar, right, so we use this for so many metabolic needs. It's our energy source. And so the areas around the pelvis, the middle of body, more of that bone is trabecular in nature, so it's like a or a spongy bone, I should say. It's not like that harder, compact bone, like the outer shell off, like the lower leg bones like think tibia, femur, the metatarsals. It's got a little bit more like less stiffness, rigidity to it and because of that type of bone there's a higher metabolic demand, like it requires more energy just for keeping it going.
Speaker 2:Right, our, our bones are always reabsorbing itself and rebuilding. We have these two types of cells osteoblasts, which build, osteoclasts which like reabsorb, and there's always a constant fluctuation of building and reabsorption. And if that area isn't getting the fuel it needs right Think running If we're not fueling enough during pre post run, our body starts like shutting things down a little bit locally, like cellularly and those tissues, and then it can't repair itself as much. And so eventually you're all doing all this impact loading from running and you start getting low back pain or something comes on and it's it's not. It's like out of the blue, almost. It feels like maybe as the individual, but usually there's been something going on with where you're training too much and and also the fueling level has been inadequate and now we're having a problem Right and this is super common.
Speaker 1:I feel like in elite runners this is very common, just because we kind of starve ourselves a little bit, you know kind of hard.
Speaker 2:You're training so hard to be at this high level of performance, like you have to run so much, like there's intensity there and man it's. It's hard to be at this high level of performance. Like you have to run so much, like there's intensity there and man it's. It's hard to get enough fuel in sometimes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like it's, it's really hard I mean, I'll be honest with you, I'm the first person to admit like I was a little bit not heavier, but I was a little. In jason schlarb's words, uh, he felt my bicep one time and was like juicy at an athlete summit, made me laugh really hard. Um, it's awesome. I've got like a little bit of you know meteor on the biceps and a little bit meteor on the shoulders. So I have been especially ahead of this season.
Speaker 1:You know I don't starve myself, but I have and I just eat a hell of a lot cleaner than I ever have before, really intensely cleaner and maybe a little bit less, but not to the point where I'm tired. I'm feeling what I believe should be adequately. I cut all the shit out of my diet, basically, and feeling good and I've been able to trim weight. But also I'm hyper aware and a little nervous of stress, fractures and stuff like that, just because I've probably cut I don't know seven pounds in the last like a month and a half, something like that. You know, once I started getting like really serious on the new diet, so some of that could be water weight but like totally.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But yeah, it does make me more worried.
Speaker 2:We're a more you know, I think there's, yeah, there's obviously got to be some caution there, especially as, again, intensity and volume as you're building up for like these summer events, so like something to look at. But when you say going clean, like what do you mean by that? More like whole foods? Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1:Like a whole foods, a lot, like a lot more veggies. Okay, you know higher, so higher volume of veggies. Uh, leaner meats. Um, you know watching my portions, you know making sure I'm not overdoing it on the rice or the quinoa and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Um, you know, know more veggies when I can. And then you know protein shakes after my workouts I'm getting adequate.
Speaker 1:You know, glucose in the, in my, in my body, um, and it usually has like a berry component to it or something like that uh, but like dude, I probably keep it to like I don't know, two and a half meals a day, something like that, and my biggest meal is dinner. Actually, I don't fast in the morning. Like I'll have like a very small, like I'll have like maybe a rice cake or two with like peanut butter and banana, okay, um, and that's like with like ag1 and like some vitamins and obviously like electrolytes and water. Like I'm, you know, pretty clean with that. Then I'll have my first you know workout of the day. Post that, you know, depending on the intensity of that, I will usually fuel with, you know, usually a protein shake, maybe an omelet or something like that, nothing too crazy. And then usually after that it's like nothing until I'll have, if I might have my next set second session of the day, um, which is not every day and then post that, I'll have my, my dinner meal.
Speaker 2:So so I think not bad. I think there's a ton of value in obviously having a cleaner diet. Right, there's just better quality nutrients, better abs Well, that's a secondary effect for sure. Better quality nutrients in the proteins Great, like, I think, for you. Were you doing so much up and down elevation Like you have more muscle breakdown, I'm assuming, than what I'm doing more on the flat stuff just because a lot more eccentric load of the downhills. So I think protein is super important. But carbohydrates like man like, even if it's like a drink mix or gel, something like during, especially if it's like a longer session, like, think like, if there's something with intensity longer than an hour or 75 minutes, like that's, if I know I'm going to be doing something like that, then that's when I'll probably start fueling more during it. But if it's like 60 minutes, easy, I'm usually not fueling during.
Speaker 1:That's what I mean Before and after Most of my sessions, I would say most of my normal sessions throughout the week are, you know, regular, probably an hour, you know, I'm not really nothing crazy, you know, throughout the week, and then, and it's usually double sessions, so I'll have two hours of activity in a day, three hours of activity a day, but they're usually broken up in the two sessions.
Speaker 2:I found, even like with this build recently, like I'm past geez, two, three weeks, like I have been hungry all the time and like I'm listening to that, I'm like eating a lot.
Speaker 1:That's good yeah.
Speaker 2:And cause, like I don't, I know the risk and. I'm listening to my body and I think being in tune with your body's helpful. Like the sleep, how's that? Like? How do you feel energy wise? Like? Do you feel like fatigue? Do you want to run? Like, and if not, like, take a day off? Like that's important for like longevity of things.
Speaker 1:There's nothing better. There's nothing better than like that. You know that feeling where, like, you're like okay. You wake up in the morning, you're like okay I feel like I can go deep today.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, I love that feeling. Yes, and also, speaking of like, more on the clinical signs of like a higher indicator of low energy availability is like obviously, if you're fatigued all the time, right, that's the obvious. Or? But like for males and females, like the, the hormonal changes with sex hormones and we talked about this briefly in the last podcast. But like, clinically, like for females, like it's something that it's a little bit more objectiful. But the like menstrual cycle if there's something that's becoming more irregular or they're not having a menstrual cycle, like that's a huge red flag. But in the on the male side, like literally like morning erection, right, is that there or not still?
Speaker 1:And if it's?
Speaker 2:not like. That's a concern, right Like testosterone basically if you're but seriously like it's something to pay attention to, or or sex drive in general.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right.
Speaker 2:The the not most exciting or fun things to talk about, but like it's something to pay attention to. Or sex drive in general. Yeah Right, they're not most exciting or fun things to talk about, but if you want to do your best to help someone or be aware of it, it's something you need to discuss. Interesting, yeah, so keep an eye on that. I just might.
Speaker 1:All right. So yeah, and I think that the big thing is just like the sacral stress fracture is just so common and that's why I was like and and I think it's got more notoriety after like something like adam peterman yeah, had like a big uh injury with that recently and his pt is awesome, rich willie, he's up in yeah, university of montana.
Speaker 2:You saw that video, yeah well, I saw the video, which is awesome, but also, like I've known about him for a while and he he come. He's a researcher, so he comes out with papers all the time, oh shit like on all different things, not just like he does some. He's done some bone studies, uh, but a lot of like running related, athlete related bone tissue injuries and yeah, he awesome.
Speaker 2:So like Adam was in great hands because, like I've, I've read a ton of his stuff and and he's just how he explains things is awesome too. So shout out to Rich Willie, oh man.
Speaker 1:All right, good to know. Yeah, you just kind of bridged that gap. For me, all I thought about was just some guy at the university. That guy's awesome.
Speaker 2:He's an awesome PT for sure, especially in like the running injury related world Cause. Like there's a lot of PTs out there who are awesome, who I looked up to and you know like learned from and but yeah, he's definitely up there for sure.
Speaker 1:Okay, was there any other topics PT wise, you wanted to dive into a little bit today.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think even just like a few more things on the bone like we can, and I'd be fine staying on the sacral stress fracture for a moment and I think for people to understand well, sacral, and I'll talk hip, I think there's so many injuries but these ones I do see commonly, um where, like the sacral stress injury, like I said it'll be, someone will perceive it maybe as like low back pain, that kind of comes on someone out of the blue, perceive it maybe as like low back pain, that kind of comes on someone out of the blue. But I've also seen is people can have like radiating symptoms from that, like almost where you feel like your muscles tight on, like the inner thigh. That's what Adam complained of.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you said you thought I had a doctor.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so someone else who I saw, who had that, also had a similar experience. Like the adductor on that side was really tight, locking up, um, and it makes sense Like it's one of those muscles that connects to your pelvis and it's also trying to like stabilize things and maybe guard and protect. And I think people's go-to is to stretch right. Or, like people can think also, sacral stress fracture or bone stress injury is like piriformis syndrome, where I'm just so tight back there I need to stretch it up or I need someone to adjust me and it's like whoa, let's listen to more of the story here, cause maybe, but for most runners I see that's not always the case too. So again, that's why it's so important to understand where someone's coming from when they come in with low back pain on one side that came out of the blue Like I needed to know more of their story before we can make an educated decision and even do my testing If you don't want me asking you.
Speaker 1:can you trigger pain from like lifting?
Speaker 2:Of course, yeah, and what do you mean by that? That's a very vague question.
Speaker 1:Well, no, I'm just kind of curious, I don't know. Like last week, for instance, like I was doing a lot of box jumps and uh single leg work on the box and also a lot of uh individual like lunges okay, barbell lunges and tuesday morning I woke up and like I did have like a little lower back thing, a little funny on the lower back and it's that same side, and I'm like what is wrong with me? And like I I said I'm able to run, fine, I'll let it go for a day or two, you know like lower intensity and I'm good. I always thought it was because you see, these metal seats we're sitting on right now when I sit at work. This is the type of metal seat I sit on. It's a piece of shit and I felt Like my the alignment was kind of funny. It's a terrible seat.
Speaker 2:Also like had you done a workout like that in a little while? Like was that?
Speaker 1:it was higher. So it was higher intensity than what I had done. It was, yeah, I would say, higher intensity than what I'd done in prior two or three weeks of the block.
Speaker 2:So so that's something to say too. It's like, look at, like obviously we know, like most people are familiar with doms, right, just like delayed muscle soreness, yeah, and that's one thing. But also if, like, you're overloading tissue to, even if it's like minor and your just body hasn't been used to that stimulus, like it's not surprising that you could maybe feel some discomfort. And if it's something that's like 24, 48 hours and it kind of goes away, not as much of a concern but it's something that becomes more persistent yeah, a little more concerned I don't know you're just connecting these dots for me.
Speaker 2:That's why I'm asking trying helping out with all the problems. Yeah, do you have any other questions on like bone stuff? Because like there's so much you could talk about but like it would just take forever. I think just clearing the air a little bit more under have giving a little more understanding of things and like some of those common areas.
Speaker 1:No, I just think this is the. This is a great episode for that, just because, like I said, like this is the type of time where people start ramping up mileage. These are usually a lot of some of the things that you will start to see like for you know, in your practice, and stuff like that. So, no, I think that's, I think we covered it, unless you have more that you want to. No.
Speaker 2:I'm just ready for some funky questions. Okay, good, I hope you got some new ones for me, okay, so?
Speaker 1:I've got a serious one for you. So the UFC just had this battle between these two guys, justin Gaethje and Max Holloway right, and these guys went to war. It was, in my opinion I don't know if you've seen the highlights. I'm sure you have because I've shared it a thousand times on both Facebook and Instagram I thought it was one of the best I did see. It actually Sport, that knockout, I thought was one of the best moments in sports history and I will go to the grave. Anyway, the nature of the belt that they were fighting for was called the BMF and last time we talked, we talked about something interesting. We talked about the goat. I always have the conversation of the goat.
Speaker 1:But since you're the first person to come on the podcast twice of a goat. But since you're the first person to come on the podcast twice, I'm gonna ask you a different question. Now there is something in in our sport. I think our sport demands a lot of grit and I think our sport demands a lot of suffering, and I think our sport demands a special type of person that can gut out difficult things. So, with that now and you also see on the flip side hold on on the flip side there's also people that show up to the sport. They're like these track and field people and like they're, they're just, they make it look very easy, right, and then there's also people that kind of gut it out and it's, it's gritty. Who is your BMF of our sport?
Speaker 2:male and female.
Speaker 1:Oh gosh, I have some names that I know who are my. I think I've been thinking about this for like the last three days, like asking you this question. I think Zach Miller is a great example.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I gave that answer last time, Like if we're on the ultra side, for sure he would be the male person. Yeah, oh man, that's tough, would you say, like more like the sub-ultra? I think so. How about this? I'm thinking.
Speaker 1:So how about this Before? Before you go, I'll tell you who mine are, so I'll give you a little bit of what I'm thinking. So I've got a few. So now that I've got to like hang out with Aaron Tan. I'm going to put her. I mean, she kind of goes on all you know spectrums of different. You know she's done. She does sub vultures. To put her up there. She's gritty.
Speaker 2:She's an amazing athlete and she's a good person, but like she's gritty and I.
Speaker 1:I just find she's got that like that bmf attitude.
Speaker 2:And the second female that is like an easy one for me is ally mac. That's who I was. She's always like is a bmf gun, you know?
Speaker 1:yes, like, just like yeah, and you know it's funny. So I sent her a dm before the last uh podcast about because you know she's she's a local colorado springs girl. So you know, before the kobe trail uh race, I I like I put like a thing up on the instagram like for christina and ally like cheering them on, yeah, and ally responded like 719 till I die. I was like yes, um, so yeah, but like I don't know if you ever watched her race in person, well, I've seen well, it's in person.
Speaker 2:I say, is one thing, because, like you're, only I've never raced her personally but I've watched her race in person.
Speaker 1:Are you saying like video feed? You can see video feed if you want.
Speaker 2:I mean, I'm saying like I've seen, like the golden trail series like video feed, where she's yeah, because she did the series and, like she's always, like dude, she goes hard yeah, that's what I'm saying, you can see like the effort people are putting in and like I appreciate that it's inspiring.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I'm going to put her up there. Her and Aaron, I think, are my two feet and I'm I'm sure I'm missing other people, but, like, allie was definitely the first person that that definitely came to mind as far as like the sub ultra BMF. And then the second, uh, from the male side, excuse me, this one was I think the male side was a little bit harder, just because I don't know. So there's, there's two people that do come to mind for me. One, I think, is john albin. I think john is a is a tough fucking dude and like, just very like, can gut it out, can grid it out, and he kind of goes on all the spectrums because he does run ultras and he does sub-ultra. He had a tough race at Zagama last year but also had an amazing Mont Blanc the year before Mont Blanc Marathon won. There's a lot of people you can make for. And then the second person besides Sean Albin, colorado guy, morgan Elliott.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, I was thinking that.
Speaker 1:He's a bad motherfucker dude like I. I think I put him up there as a bmf for sure. Dang, you took like a couple of mine.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm definitely taking ali mac for the female, because that's like the. That did come to mind first and I think what you said and everything reflects that so I'm gonna go with that too. Male side is tough.
Speaker 1:It's so hard. I don't know why it's harder. I don't know, like on the female side, like there's a lot of females that are like just bad to the like, like Judith wider is another one.
Speaker 2:She is. I'm just talking to on the Ben Townsend Speaking of that, though. Yeah, so she last peak, so she came in. I think she came in second.
Speaker 1:I believe so second right. But man, she must have been working real hard because sofia drafted off her the whole damn time. There's some no shade strategy. No shade, it's not.
Speaker 2:It's not illegal but at the top man after I finished because, like they finished obviously before me she was like up there like getting oxygen and like she was like up there like getting oxygen and like she was like something was like happening. I don't know if she just had like a hypoxic effect, but like she was like in tears and like oxygen and like everyone was like around her, I was like geez, hopefully she's okay, but like that's telling you how hard it is at that altitude and you're pushing yourself to your limits to get the most out of yourself. Like that's yeah, there's, there's a, there is a legitimate risk there If, like you're taking over that governor right, cause your body's trying to tell you something, but it's also like inspiring to to a point to just totally, just absolutely turn yourself inside.
Speaker 2:Right Cause like that's. Like we romanticize against that or with that as runners. Like we want to get the most out of ourselves and push it, but like it's not always easy to do that it's really hard.
Speaker 1:So, and that's another thing I was going to say about the BMF, the way I kind of think about a BMF it is it's not always someone that's winning races.
Speaker 1:It's someone that's flawed in a lot of ways, you know, or or is flawed a little bit, where these people are going out super hard, holding on for dear life, and then you know and like sometimes you stick the landing and sometimes you don't. I'd put Tabor up there as well. Tabor is such an incredible athlete and she's gritty and she's tough. There's a lot. Like I said, I think I have more on the female side to offer than I do.
Speaker 2:the male side, almost One comes to mind and I'll stick with the Americans and even Colorado, so I'll say Andy Wacker.
Speaker 1:One comes to mind and I'll, and I'll stick with the Americans and even Colorado. So I'll, I'll say Andy Wacker, and why?
Speaker 2:he's a good one to a great runner and like there's so many times like he's in these competitive races where he doesn't, he's like a little bit further back but still very competitive. But like like in the I forgot it was one year he did Zagamon he was like in the front for like the first bit, like he's. He's pushing, he's working hard and regardless if he blows up or not or doesn't finish where he wants to be, I respect that. I think there's value in the conservative game too, but it's not as exciting, it doesn't inspire as much, even though it may be smarter on the day.
Speaker 2:But I think the inspiration and trying to get the most out of yourself and testing yourself is pretty inspiring, so I'll go with him. Colorado and uh, just some, a grit factor.
Speaker 1:So it's funny. Like I know free trails got this whole. Uh, you know they do like trail runner of the year or whatever. I want to start BMF of the year, dude, I like it. Like we do like start a trend yeah, made and send it out to people. You're branching the, the sports. That's right, dude, there you go a little belt action.
Speaker 1:I like it. Um, yeah, I, I don't know something that was uh, I always like people that inspire me and you know, and that's that's one of the things I was thinking about was like, who, who's the? We've got some bmfs in this, in the sport, you know for sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and there's too many. Like there's so many more, but like there's just you don't hear I mean, you don't always hear about everyone too like there's just so many awesome runners out there and even if they're not like the top level, they're still like trying to be so gritty and get the most out themselves. Like that's just. I love seeing that, yeah, yeah I agree, man I agree we'll revisit this on the next podcast maybe you're, maybe you're thinking, think about it more now.
Speaker 1:All right. So we got, we got any other questions? Like we got it, we want to revisit. Well, we talked about the aliens, we got into Bigfoot. Oh man, dude, what's your take on a? All right, you want to get, you want to get?
Speaker 2:weird I know did you see this no, oh my god, dude, I am not into like it's kind of bad, like I am not in tune with a lot of news stuff another.
Speaker 1:All right, so I'm gonna give you a little backstory. So boeing has these issues with the airplanes, right sure and there's like, there's like whistleblowers, and there was like two whistleblowers the first one died unexpectedly and then another one that's died unexpectedly with two.
Speaker 2:That's not. That's more of it. Not, that's more of a. That's that's more of a problem. It's a little wild shit dude, that's not a coincidence.
Speaker 1:Okay, oh, all right, I got a good one for you. Last question Did we go to the moon or not?
Speaker 2:Yes, totally, you would say, no, I would say no. I.
Speaker 1:All right, I sound like a quack. Listen, let me hear me out really quick on this last thing. Have you ever heard of the van allen radiation belts? No, okay, there is a radiation belt that you can only really get through on the north, and so there's a few things going into it, and I just listen to a podcast on those people. Don't think I'm a psychopath, just listen. Listen, there's. There was a rogan pot on it where he had, like the leading expert on the like going to the moon, or we if we didn't, or we did.
Speaker 1:This guy's a physicist and they talked about the van allen radiation belts and these like levels of radiation that you can only get through, whether you're going through the poles. But remember, the direct way we took, if I remember correctly, was port canaveral, through florida, which you you know. With that access, you would have had to have gone through the radiation belts. Well, only x amount of the thickness and steel or aluminum would have allowed them to not get radiation poisoning. That was one of the things. There's a bunch of things they pointed to either way. So go look it up for yourself and just like do some, do some of your own digging there's another thing the guy like dude?
Speaker 1:um, not not Buzz Aldrin, who was the guy, the main astronaut, that went to the moon? I can't remember his name.
Speaker 2:Neil.
Speaker 1:Armstrong, neil Armstrong, the guy who was supposed to replace Neil Armstrong. I don't know what happened and he like mysteriously died before. Really, I swear to God, look this up. It is like some crap. Do you watch? So I'm gonna get like my phone's tapped now somebody's gonna sue me. No, no, I'm dead serious, just you know, just look it up. Look it up for yourself, and then you can tell me if you think I'm a quacker go down a rabbit hole on google I'm always interested in these like weird conspiracy like no, for sure, bigfoot it's intriguing.
Speaker 1:I mean, dude, like I'm still, I'm still on the. I think I've changed my view on the aliens, though I don't think they're from outer space, I think they're like interdimensional well, that kind of is outer space though, too.
Speaker 2:Like I feel like there's we're in this 3d world, but like there's again not to be too quacky but there's probably a ton of different dimensions, but like thinking, like how it's all connected to, so like like I don't know, the crazy people out there are, like they've always been here, Like dimension wise we just sometimes they cross our plane of visual.
Speaker 1:I guess vision, yeah, the way we see them.
Speaker 2:I don't know. Let me ask you this then Cause I kind of feel like one more question on like getting weird topics, okay, however you want to term it ghosts or spirits, I think afterlife, I think, oh, the afterlife. Well well, well, I guess that's how I would term it. Right, so good, this is a. This dude, this is because I have. I have a, I have a couple of stories. Well, like one story, I'll say but thoughts.
Speaker 1:Yeah, let me ask. This is a very I've kind of gone for a circle. So I grew up my whole life, um was not a devout Catholic, but I went to 12 years of primary Catholic school. You know, my, my family was very religious and when I got to college I was actually like, you know, you kind of you go through that phase in life where some people reject it and I don't. I'm not saying I reject religion, it's just like I went to, you know, got a hard science degree and you learn a lot of things about evolution and it gets kind of swirly and you start to question things.
Speaker 1:Sure, as I've aged 33 now, um, and you go through these life experiences, I, my entire at least in the last, like probably three or four years, my entire view on it has been flipped upside down. I'm not religious, but I think I am a little more spiritual. I believe in like something like a re, I wouldn't say like a reincarnation, but something to the degree of that. Yeah, um, and like I said, not attached to any religion, but something to the degree where I mean, there's that old saying, you know, newton, matter could not be created nor destroyed. I'm not sure if he said it.
Speaker 2:Somebody said it, it's energy, right? Yeah, so right, I don't know, I don't know, dude, you know it's a it's a tough one I would agree and also, like I've just, I have never.
Speaker 2:I haven't had a experience myself, but I have had relatives on my side of the family who've had strong experience and there's a few family members on my extended family who have had more experiences which kind of tripped me out like the stuff they saw and like the one and I'll just speak on one, because there's a few but my paternal grandparents like passed away some time ago and a cousin on my maternal side had a dream, like maybe like that day after the day of when my grandma passed, and in that dream she had my gram, my grandma, like saying to her like hey, tell my family, everything's going to be okay, yeah, and like she had no idea what was going on and she was like really creeped out by it. It was like weird out. And she found out the next day and she I don't think she told us for a while, but she told us later and I was like that's, you've never had a family. So this has happened to me.
Speaker 1:My grandmother uh passed away of uh dementia um going on almost two years in june, and she never came to me in a dream. And then, like maybe, like I don't know, six months ago I mean, I'm not joking, dude it was like clear as day. I remember it like it was yesterday she came to me in a dream and, and it was very strange, and she comes to my crazy comes to my mom and like goes to my mom, like somewhat often.
Speaker 1:Like roses had very similar experiences. Like she um said to see stunkle and like to see his grandfather and like people come to you in dreams. I don't know. Like. Maybe is that like, because the scientists in me always thinks like. Is that our methodology of like how we're coping? Sure, in one way, shape or form, you know, and that could be it. I don't know.
Speaker 2:It's very strange. There's just there's so much complexities. We can only speculate, but it's, it's, it's intriguing, it's. I think it's fascinating.
Speaker 1:I'm going intriguing, it's. I think it's fascinating. I'm gonna take this one more deeper. I don't want to. I know you got to get out of here, but like, okay, so are you familiar?
Speaker 2:like when people do like dimethyltryptamine and like different drugs like that heard of.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like the spiritual experience, yeah well, people, a lot of people talk about seeing the same shit. Um like these things called machine elves. Another thing to google yeah, I swear to god like there's a and people listen. This is a running podcast. Where the fuck?
Speaker 2:are we going?
Speaker 1:dude, um, and I'll leave it at this. But like there are people like very often, and it's very common that people talk about seeing the same things when they trip balls, and yeah, weird, I don't know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't know never personally been on that. Yeah, I can't say I've ever been on it.
Speaker 1:But if you were?
Speaker 2:keep a lookout for the elves. Watch out for the elves. It's a good way to wrap up.
Speaker 1:Well, dude, do you have anything to add on that? I think that's a good way to end it. All right, guys, we'll give a plug for Sean Rimmer. Check out Run Potential PT on Instagram and are you active on your YouTube channel? No, you've had some good videos on there, though.
Speaker 2:I've looked you up, I haven't. I don't have much, maybe a couple, but no, I mean Instagram is definitely my main platform. I post stuff on Facebook, but social media is not like Obviously. It's something that I think that's important, it can help.
Speaker 1:Your real game is great, bro. I try. Thanks for coming, brother. What did you guys think I told you this was an absolute banger of an episode. Really good discussion with Sean. Really fun stuff. Really good topics. Like I said, bone stress injuries are just so common and things that we really need to keep an eye on. Dude, he had me freaking out sitting in the chair thinking about bone stress injuries are just so common and things that we really need to keep an eye on. Dude, he had me freaking out sitting in the chair thinking about bone stress injuries and the different little things that could you know could be.
Speaker 1:Um, all right, before we go, we've got some quick plugs. Um, I want you guys to go ahead and jump on Instagram and I want you to look up run potential PT. Um, if you are in the Colorado Springs or Front Range area, I want you to find Run Potential PT. Give them a follow and then give them a call if you need a PT. Sean is absolutely awesome. He's a great dude and, yeah, if you're looking for a PT in the area I'm not joking around you guys really need to give Sean a contact.
Speaker 1:Last but not least, if you did like this episode. Go ahead and um, uh, give Sean a follow, shoot him a DM. Uh, let him know what you thought. And then, very last but not least, if you did enjoy this episode, um, go ahead and hop on Spotify and Apple. Uh, it's a new thing I'm doing. Um, go ahead and jump on Spotify and Apple, give us a review, uh and or a rating. We would greatly appreciate that. I would greatly appreciate that. It would be, it would be awesome. So, yeah, thanks, guys. Until the next episode, steep stuff pod. Thank you.