The Steep Stuff Podcast
Kristina Mascarenas | Back to Back Pikes Peak Marathon Champion
Christina Mascarenas, a two-time Pikes Peak marathon champion, joins us for a captivating conversation on her latest adventures and achievements. Christina opens up about her recent trip to Japan for the Golden Trail World Series, providing listeners with vivid imagery of the Kobe 23K race and the unexpected delights of Kobe's underground city life. Get ready to experience Japan through her eyes, from its breathtaking landscapes and pristine streets to the warm and welcoming locals and delectable cuisine.
In this episode, we journey through Christina’s transformation from a competitive gymnast to a trail-running sensation. Facing a career-ending injury at 14, Christina didn’t let adversity keep her down. Instead, she channeled her determination into a remarkable running career, driven by a pivotal bet with her brother at age 24. We explore her strategic approach to racing, the camaraderie among trail runners, and the mental grit required to stay ahead in high-altitude competitions like the Pikes Peak Marathon. Her story is a testament to resilience and the powerful influence of family in shaping an athlete’s path.
But it’s not all about running; Christina’s life is a fascinating blend of athletic prowess and scientific inquiry. We delve into her work in a biology lab and discuss how she balances her demanding training schedule with her professional career. From overcoming severe injuries to representing Team USA at the World Championships, Christina's journey is filled with inspiring moments and lessons in perseverance. Tune in for insights on training routines, race preparations, and even some light-hearted banter about Bigfoot and aliens. Don't miss this episode's heartfelt conclusion, where we emphasize the importance of rating and reviewing the podcast to help us continue sharing these incredible stories.
Christina Mascarenas, a two-time Pikes Peak marathon champion, joins us for a captivating conversation on her latest adventures and achievements. Christina opens up about her recent trip to Japan for the Golden Trail World Series, providing listeners with vivid imagery of the Kobe 23K race and the unexpected delights of Kobe's underground city life. Get ready to experience Japan through her eyes, from its breathtaking landscapes and pristine streets to the warm and welcoming locals and delectable cuisine.
In this episode, we journey through Christina’s transformation from a competitive gymnast to a trail-running sensation. Facing a career-ending injury at 14, Christina didn’t let adversity keep her down. Instead, she channeled her determination into a remarkable running career, driven by a pivotal bet with her brother at age 24. We explore her strategic approach to racing, the camaraderie among trail runners, and the mental grit required to stay ahead in high-altitude competitions like the Pikes Peak Marathon. Her story is a testament to resilience and the powerful influence of family in shaping an athlete’s path.
But it’s not all about running; Christina’s life is a fascinating blend of athletic prowess and scientific inquiry. We delve into her work in a biology lab and discuss how she balances her demanding training schedule with her professional career. From overcoming severe injuries to representing Team USA at the World Championships, Christina's journey is filled with inspiring moments and lessons in perseverance. Tune in for insights on training routines, race preparations, and even some light-hearted banter about Bigfoot and aliens. Don't miss this episode's heartfelt conclusion, where we emphasize the importance of rating and reviewing the podcast to help us continue sharing these incredible stories.
Hey, fam, welcome back to the steep stuff podcast. I'm your host, james Lorello, and guys, today we have an absolute banger of an episode. I am so excited to welcome Christina mascarinas to the podcast. If you guys are not familiar with that name, you absolutely should be. Two time Pikes Peak marathon champion, and she's just getting started. I was so excited and so happy to welcome Christina to the pod. We had a great conversation. I think you guys are going to really enjoy this one. We talked a lot about the Golden Trail World Series, as well as her 2023 season and as well as her 2024 upcoming season, where she's got a lot of big plans. Again, really excited to welcome her to the pod. She's an absolute legend in the making and just incredible human. Yeah, without further ado, steep Stuff Podcast with Christina Mascarenas. It's time, ladies and gentlemen, we are live. Wait, is this your first podcast? Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've done like a five-minute interview, just like on someone's phone.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm very nervous. Is it like an I Run Far interview, or yeah, or Tim Burton.
Speaker 2:It's so hard to tell because I always talk to those guys and it's hard to tell who it was from. And then I did one for the news, but it was like really short.
Speaker 1:Super cool though. Yeah, all right, I'm really happy that, like we got you on to like tell the story, like this is like hoping to be like the sub ultra podcast moving forward. So we'll see.
Speaker 2:That'd be cool.
Speaker 1:We're live by the way. Oh, no, yeah, welcome, thank you Do you want to introduce yourself and we can go from there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm Tina Mascarenas. I'm a Colorado native, I'm one of four kids and I've been married to my best friend for about seven years and I work in a biology lab.
Speaker 1:Super cool, super cool. Welcome. I'm so excited to have you on, excited to have you on um. As far as, like, accomplishments, like there's a lot to unpack here and a lot to talk about um, I'd say the first thing I'd really want to dive into. We can talk about your running back story, but, like, the first thing I want to dive into is you just got back from japan, right?
Speaker 2:yeah, I think it was three weeks now okay time flies. Yeah, it was amazing. It is one of the places that actually lives up to the hype. A lot of people are like, oh it, oh, it's the coolest place ever. And you get there and you're like meh B plus. But this place was amazing, right, the food is good, it's clean, everyone's nice, like everywhere you look is just gorgeous.
Speaker 1:Okay. So I would recommend, and you, you raced, race there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I did the first race in the golden trail series, the Kobe 23K.
Speaker 1:Kobe.
Speaker 2:I wanted to call it Kobe, okay, kobe that's what I always say, and this lady, who's very traveled, she's like I'm not to be rude, but I think it's Kobe. I was like, oh, with more class and poise, I suppose. But yeah, so just like the Kobe beef okay which we did have some of, and it was amazing wow.
Speaker 1:So, geographically, like where? Where is like Kobe? In regards to like, I don't know, you don't have to like, give me an exact, but like as far as tokyo and like mafugi, is it all like on that same island or is it like on a different island, or how's that?
Speaker 2:yeah, so it's all on the same island. We actually flew into osaka, which is just southeast of tokyo, and then it's another hour drive south, so it's it seems small but it's not so. Apparently it's like the seventh biggest city and I was like there's no way. There's like 20 people walking around and then all of a sudden you go underground and it's like central station. There are people everywhere, it's just packed in the tunnels. I was like retreat, we're going back up. So I totally failed on trying to find the restaurant we were looking for, cause I got nervous, cause there were so many people down there.
Speaker 1:Wow, that's crazy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was like two different worlds. Up top it's beautiful, it's mountainous, there's clouds, you can see the sea, and then downstairs it's like man.
Speaker 1:What was the weather like? Is it more because every time I see, I don't know, maybe I've seen videos of people in Okinawa and stuff like that Like, was it more like rainy and mountainous, or yeah, it was almost more tropical and rainy, so their mountains didn't go too high.
Speaker 2:It really felt like I don't know if you've been to Seattle like run up to Poo Poo Point. It felt exactly like that Big trees wet, lots of rocks, lots of running water. I think they get a fair amount of water. They had these like 20 foot walls that looked like they were just retaining walls for water. It was just crazy. It was like I felt like an episode of lost, like I kept waiting to hear that sound like. I don't know if you watch lost yeah, oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Every time I pass those balls like it's coming, that's hilarious so that's what it reminded me of lost kind of I had this like seattle.
Speaker 1:I've never been in japan. I had this like professor in college that I was, like he like did one of his like phd things there and like always talked about how like the big spiders like said the spiders were gigantic and I like don't do spiders and I don't know why. So I like always associated like the two. I don't know.
Speaker 2:It's kind of weird well, if it makes you feel better.
Speaker 1:I saw zero bugs okay, wow, you're like none oh okay, yeah, yeah, I don't know like I I don't, I just don't do spiders here maybe it's like regional.
Speaker 2:So kobe's safe, you'll be fine, okay, in whatever month this is, yeah, let's. Let's dive into the race a little bit so you went.
Speaker 1:This is the. That was the first golden trail series race of the season.
Speaker 2:Um, what'd you think? Yeah, it was awesome. So I did not know what to expect. So it's really hard to tell what you're getting into based on the elevation profile, and this is the first year it's ever happened. So I was talking to a lot of the other athletes even the day before like, hey, how long do you think this is going to be? How many gels are you bringing? And we were really thinking it was going to be under three hours. And so I had a contingency plan because my husband went and I was like here's some gels and a bottle just in case it's long. And I'm so glad it was because I took an extra bottle and two more gels because it was 45 minutes longer than I thought it was going to be and it was for everybody too, and I think just the vert, like you, could not get a good rhythm down. It was just like parkouring the whole time.
Speaker 2:And then you would just turn around and just run straight into a wall and grind again.
Speaker 2:So just lots of like straight up and down, straight up and down the only flat part was the aid station and you'd come screaming through and grab what you could and then immediately you just like dropped off a cliff and they were just these giant steps that were probably like three feet drops and you only had about a foot to hit your foot on. So you had to be really precise. So by the last lap I was just like sighing. Every time I had to jump off something that was like belly button height, I was like, oh, come on please, legs, please hold me.
Speaker 2:That's terrible so yeah, I've never been so sore after a race.
Speaker 1:I bet I mean the up and down looked insane.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and just catching yourself Like I just have been good to do plyo. I think like jumping off blocks would have been good because there was so much just absorbing the, the shock, okay, more so than running in the soreness, like was it more glute or more knees or all quads really yeah, my, my right knee is actually still a little bit achy after the race.
Speaker 2:It's like maybe just a little swelling in there is causing some grinding. But yeah, it was all my quads, thankfully. We went to like a traditional Japanese hot springs after and I just like soaked it up for hours. It was so good that's crazy.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So what is now you've done? I mean a few Golden Trailers, well, quite a few Golden Trailers. Series races before, like. Can you maybe describe to the audience a little bit Like just like how hot these ladies and men are taking it out, like and just like how you just have to be like on the ball the whole time because you're going to get passed or you're going to be passing people. There's a lot of games that are played.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's crazy. I think the second you let off the gas and you get out of that lead pack, you're kind of done Like they're short enough that you don't have room for error and this race started out and they hit the gun and you like go blazing down this road. And I look at my watch, it says 4.56. And I was like you're going to be out here for two and a half hours Like this is not your pace, girl. So I backed off just a little bit and my first split was still 5.16.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:And I got dropped, like I was so far back of the lead pack I never saw them again. And then I got stuck behind some other girls and who weren't super great at descending and there was just no making up that point. So then the last two laps I was by myself, and it's so hard to grind when you just have no one in front of you and no one behind you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no man's land Wow.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So it was crazy, like within I don't know seven minutes of the race, everything was just going so fast and then it was just like nothing, like where did everyone go? It was wild.
Speaker 1:So it wasn't even like there was no moves even being made. It was just like hanging in and just hoping for the best.
Speaker 2:Yeah, not really. I ran with one other girl I can't remember her name right now, but we were together for maybe 20 or 30 minutes and then it got to a spot where it was safe to pass and I passed her and then I never saw anybody again. Wow, I was like, okay, but the men did start catching you at the end because they did a 30 minute staggered start. So it you at the end because they did a 30 minute staggered start. So it was kind of nice to see some of our guys go through.
Speaker 2:Uh, one of the other american guys came through and I told him I was like, man, you're close, you're only 30 seconds off. I was like you can get him. So, just like, trying to like feed off their energy was cool that last crop like that last climb yeah, what a good contingent.
Speaker 1:I mean there was a lot of there's a lot of good people that I had up there I saw like garrett corcoran went out. I was excited.
Speaker 2:Oh, it was Garrett, was it Garrett? Yeah, yeah, I was yelling at him, this guy's a goofball man.
Speaker 2:He had a salt tablet off the ground. He was like man, it was hot, I was bonking. He saw nothing wrong with it and I was like I don't know if I could put a salt tablet I found in the ground in my mouth. It could up in space if you eat a white tab off the ground. Right, it's a little safe. But it was funny. We were all swapping war stories. But he did great. Yeah, he came through with so much energy and he's just a ball of fun yeah, super good, super good, all right, all right.
Speaker 1:So I feel like we tackled a lot of that. There's so much I want to get to in this podcast so I want to so let's, let's.
Speaker 1:You're good, um, let's talk about your running background, how you got into basically how you got into running and this journey that you've been on. Like after looking at your results and your ultra sign up and just like reading all the articles about you, like I was just pulling, like you've been doing this for quite a while, like since like 2015, from like as far as ultra sign up. So, yeah, let's, let's dive into basically that.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I was a competitive gymnast growing up and I had a pretty big injury when I was 14. And that was just like the end of my career, couldn't do anything. So I did absolutely nothing from 14 to 24-ish and I started smoking cigarettes. I was partying, like just going too hard, and my brother was always on my butt Like you need to quit smoking, like this is gross, and so finally we made a bet and I lost the bet and it involved running. So then I started running and he and his buddy, mike, who's been friends with since he was like five, are big into running so we would just like hit the trails and just have so much fun. And that's just kind of how it started, like he just pulled me out of my slump and out of my party phase and into this like whole new life. And I'm an all or nothing person. So once I was in I was like heck, yes, we are in, right.
Speaker 2:So you do your first five mile race and then you're like, huh, real runners do marathons, duh right. So of course, sign up for the Colfract Marathon. I've been running for like three weeks. I was like this is fine, I get to mile 18. I was like this is not fine, you are very dumb. But it all worked out. I qualified for Boston. And then, of course, you're really psyched and then you start like researching. You get Jack Daniels book and you start doing his protocol and it just kind of spiraled from there.
Speaker 1:And I just so you had early success then.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I have a pretty big athletic background, like all of my siblings are so athletic, like I don't know they could pick up anything and be pretty decent at it. Okay, now it was a similar.
Speaker 1:I just saw a lot of like, a lot of crossover, because that's a similar story to mine. Like I was in I just started grad school, off the couch ran like a 1756 5k and I was like, oh shit, Like I still have some athleticism left.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it makes sense, that's funny.
Speaker 2:Well, and it is. It's kind of like I was pushed externally too Cause I ran the marathon. I was like, wow, that sucked, like you were pretty slow and I just thought it was mildly average. And then I realized that, like my brother pointed out, he's like it's kind of a big deal that you made it into boston. He's like some people train their whole lives for this and I was like, oh, it would be rude if I didn't go. You know, sign me up. So it was just like people putting into perspective, but just being surrounded by such good athletes, everything kind of feels normal. Yeah, so that's cool.
Speaker 1:Wow, yeah, like fast forward, like did that so? Was it more so? Your brother that was running trails and you're like, okay, a little transition then from the marathon to the trail scene, or like what kind of bridge that got.
Speaker 2:So it started on the trails. The bet was about the trails.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:So he told me one day he's like, oh, I just got off Pikes Peak and he's like spitting out all his splits and stuff. And he's like, yeah, I had a 12-minute mile from the tree line to the two to go and I was like that sucks, like that is so bad and I'm like smoking, drinking whiskey, you know like well, I could do that, I could crawl a 13-minute mile is what I told him. He's really. He's like, if you can crawl a 13-minute mile above tree line, I will never tell you to quit smoking again. And I was like done. I was like give me three weeks to train, I'm gonna mess you up and then I'm going to smoke in peace. I will never have, because he used to call me in the middle of the day. He's still fat, he's still smoking. I'm like, yes, yes, you know your brother's hilarious.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he is a riot, right. So I was like done, if you can never say it, I was like you have to buy me a carton too. And so of course I could not crawl a 13-minute mile above tree line. It was like 23 minutes, like I wasn't even close, but I was like heck, yes. So I was psyched on it. So it was actually the ascent that was my first like big race and stuff, okay, wow. And then I did the roads like in the winter and stuff to try to get fast, because it felt like still like traditional runners did road races.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's true, that's fair. But yeah, jesse's a trail boy. You will not catch him on the road. I think I've got him on the santa fe maybe three times. Really, I feel like I'm very similar. I, if it's not steep up and down, I don't really like it, like it's very hard. I mean I still do speed work, but once a week, you know, and I try to like throw those things in throughout, like throw my workouts in, like with the trails. It's very hard to you know, just do flat stuff it's hard.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sometimes when I'm on the santa fe and I'm like cooking down it, I look at pike speak. I'm like this is for you baby. Just blow her a little kiss like hey trying to get fast for you wow.
Speaker 1:So what an incredible story and, like I should preface this for the audience like you've won the pike's peak marathon. What 2017, 2022 and 2023? Yeah, okay, I did my research. You did uh what's your favorite race, by the way? Is it the pikes marathon or like what? Yeah, is it?
Speaker 2:yeah, I think it has to be. I mean, it's uh, it's easy to love something that you're good at, right, but it's more than that. Like my whole family's there. Uh, my brother and his friends and his kids actually went up and camped at Bar Camp and they put on these like uniforms and they were like this boy band and they were dancing and you know everybody on the trail and search and rescues play in the kazoo, like the vibes are just so good. And then coming into town and my whole family usually is at the finish line and there's like 20 of us. We roll pretty deep. So's just epic. Um, I, I can't think of another race that just has such good family ties and vibes that's amazing.
Speaker 1:That's amazing. Now I noticed last year you you also went to broken arrow had a great. I mean, I feel like your 2023 season like just like I hope if it didn't, it should have like caught a lot of eyes. Like your 2023 season was absolutely amazing. Um, do you want to talk about broken arrow as well? Like how was that? Like I was there last year. I didn't run the 46k, stupidly enough did the iron face race, which is great too, but like not as fun.
Speaker 2:Um, we can unpack that different energy right, different just different race.
Speaker 1:Um, yeah, how'd you like the 46k and how'd you like just being there?
Speaker 2:yeah, it was good. So I came off breakneck point and I was a little bit disappointed because I missed the qualifier for Worlds by one place.
Speaker 1:I know I saw it it was like ah, it's tough.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know.
Speaker 1:Especially being in Chiang Mai, and we'll talk about Chiang Mai as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I was really hoping to go through and, yeah, I was a little bit disappointed. So immediately I do this all the time I get sad and jerk reaction sign up for the next hardest thing. I'm like, well, I need to placate my sad soul. And I signed up for the 23K because I think that was the Golden Trail Series one. That's correct and I work with David Roach yeah, I'm partnered with the swap people and he was like hey, you're kind of better at a little further, have you considered the 46K? And I was like okay, so I signed up for the 46k and I told him I was like hey, did you know that there's eight feet of snow on the course? He's like no, the snowpack is low, it's fine. I was like I'm looking at some pictures and the snowpack is not fine. So it's like this whirlwind like of emotions. But yeah, it was awesome.
Speaker 2:I've never gone on snow like that, I've never been skiing. So to see snow on a resort like that was wild. I get to the top and these guys are looking at me laughing, and to the top of the first ski hill and I was like why are you laughing? So I go to full, send it both feet cut out and I land right on my back and they all go. Yeah, I just turn and look at them and they're like just throw a, throw a thumbs up and I just like slid down on my butt. But yeah, my legs were so cut up from the snow it was brutal, absolutely wild.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what a year. And I wonder if it's I mean like I feel like they got dumped on again this year. So I'm kind of wondering, like what that race is gonna look like. Are you going back at all this year or no?
Speaker 2:no, I think it conflicts with I might do the mont blanc marathon, and that is the 30th and I think broken air is the weekend before it is so that's a lot with travel okay that was a little bit of a loaded question.
Speaker 1:I I checked.
Speaker 2:I'll just sign up, but I was curious to see if maybe you would yeah, okay, if I, if I wasn't gonna do blanc, I would have probably gone back out, okay, yeah I mean like just to piggyback a little bit and then we'll jump into mont blanc.
Speaker 1:But like man, like not only there's a lot of snow, one of the things that blew me away was, um, so I ran the 23k course the monday after the race because we were like leaving uh, we're going to vegas, or whatever and when I ran it, like I ran it like seven or eight in the morning and it was still like frozen over and like I was slipping and sliding all over the place like was it like? Was the snow actually like a little more mashed potatoes by the time you got to it, or was it like hard and like brutal?
Speaker 2:so no and then yes, because we did two laps yeah so the first lap, it was hard enough you could.
Speaker 2:You would just slide everywhere and if you did break through, it cut your legs like those little micro cuts that hurt pretty bad and then by the second lap it was a little bit more mashed potatoes and you could actually sit and glissade a little bit. So we got the best of both worlds there. Very lucky. But there was some guy I don't know if you saw him. He was out there and he was shoveling like stairs into one of the climbs in the snow. He was an ox of a man. I ran past. I was like I love you. It's like you're a beautiful human. You know it was so cool. He's like you're doing great. You look good. He has the Scottish accent. Oh, I know who you're talking about.
Speaker 1:I don't know his name, but I did meet him.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I was like you deserve a gold medal in a cake.
Speaker 1:Shout out to the yeah.
Speaker 2:Hopefully he's coming back if there's that much snow. Yeah, no, for real year. It seems like every year just seems to improve at that race, like everybody they have coming, coming back. So, yeah, when brendan does such a good job of supporting athletes and helping them promote themselves and their brands and I think he's just doing such good things for trail running in general, oh, I agree so if you can get out there or support it in any way, like do so no, definitely, big shout out to that.
Speaker 1:And one of the things that I really liked out of that race, more than probably any others, is like they're a little more open. Um, I feel like it's a little more open with elite housing, a little more open with, you know, like the way the prizes work, just with everything.
Speaker 2:I think it's a little because it's such a big race yeah and I think it's just a little bit more accessible for elites, which I like so yeah, well, and like the people who are kind of making it into the elite realm as well. Like you can still stay in the house. Like it's not contingent upon like you have to place this or you have to do this, so it's not as established of one circle.
Speaker 1:that makes it in which is nice, super cool. Yeah, so Mont Blanc Marathon. Now you, this would be. Is this your second time going? Yeah, I did it in 2019.
Speaker 2:Okay, but I shattered my ankle after that, so I didn't get to complete the series and it took me out for a while and it took me forever to kind of get back to healthy again we're gonna well, we're gonna unpack the injuries, because I feel like that I, yeah, I really want to talk about your kind of your comeback and how that like blossomed into your 2022 season.
Speaker 1:But one of the things I want to talk about is, like the mont blanc race itself, like is it like as technical as what everybody says? Like what did you think?
Speaker 2:like, as far as that course goes, so I feel like it's as technical as bar trail like I don't think it's as much of a technical course as others in the series like japan is exponentially more technical yeah um, there are sections on the first climb, um, that they love to show.
Speaker 2:It's that ridge where everyone's running over the ridge and then there's some big drop downs, but everything else is pretty flowy, like I think they call it the roller coaster, right, like you can get some decent speed on it. And, uh, the year I did it, though, it was super hot, so they started it an hour early, so that last climb out of the ski slope was like a death March march, but everything else was pretty fast. So, yeah, maybe slightly more technical than bar trail, if I remember correctly that's really interesting.
Speaker 1:Now let me ask you this like these races all start at like funky times? It seems like from what everybody says, like is that does it throw you off at all? Are you into that like? What do you like?
Speaker 2:I'm like an 8 to 10 am guy, you know I am such a stickler like I have such a routine that I would be so easy to kidnap. I am at the same place at the same time Monday, tuesday, I do this. Wednesday, I do this Same way, yeah. It's an athlete thing yeah for sure, starting at 1.30 in Japan was so stressful to me, because what time is that even here? I think it it's midnight oh that's horrible yeah. Well, they're 15 hours ahead.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:So 10 PM, right? Oh yeah, yeah, just when my body wanted to go to bed. And so you wake up and you're like well, I should probably eat breakfast. Do I drink coffee, though? Do I wait? Do I eat a small lunch? And then it was an hour shuttle, so like trying to coordinate food and stuff like that, and I didn't get food for probably two hours after the race, which is probably maybe why I was so sore. I had no food or water after, and it was 75 degrees by the time it started, and I was like, why did you wait till the hottest time of day, like somebody? Please tell me, but I think that they wanted people to be able to spectate it in lifetime.
Speaker 2:So I get it for that aspect, but I if every race started at 7 am, I would be a happy camper no same, same.
Speaker 1:That's exactly how I feel, like I always joke. I have friends that like love the ludville 100, right, and like who on earth would start a race at four o'clock in the morning? Like why would you do that? And then you see a lot of these like sub-ultra races, especially on the golden trail world series. A lot of them start at like weird times in the afternoon, like last. It's funny. You say like mount block is literally last night because like we're talking about possibly doing our honeymoon in europe next year and one of the things I was looking at was like oh, how can I coordinate this with like the month long?
Speaker 1:Sneak a little race in and I was like look at it. I was like the VK starts at five o'clock in the evening, Like the fuck, why yeah?
Speaker 2:It's so crazy, but it is cool though, if you do the VK at least when I did it, it ended on top of this mountain, and that's where all of the base jumpers jump off, or the parasailors.
Speaker 1:Oh, so you've done the VK.
Speaker 2:Well, it ended at the same spot as the marathon the year I did it, so now they've changed it, so you end back in town, but everybody ended at the top of the ski slope Super cool. And so you're watching all these parasailors go and people were up there like sun tanning because it was, and uh they, they actually moved the race an hour earlier the night before and I wouldn't have got the email, but andy wacker was like looking out for me.
Speaker 2:He's like, hey, I know you're kind of new to this whole circuit. Did you get the email? I was like what email? And so I would have missed the start of the race if you didn't say anything seriously, he's just like papa bear, taking care of all these young people coming into trails. I have no idea what they're doing, but it was awesome.
Speaker 2:So talk about random times yeah, wow, that is so it went to 6 am instead of 7, which I would prefer any time between 5 am and, like 8 yeah, yeah, that's perfect yeah, even a tiny little window I'm doing all the cirque series this year and like there's races started like 10, I'm like all, right all
Speaker 1:right, that's fine. It's a little little late, like it's gonna be a little toasty, a little warm at that point, but I I mean that's fine, I'd rather that than like, for instance, like broken air. I think it's like the vk and a lot of them start at like noon or like 1 30 and I'm like, oh my god, these are so late, like what the hell no, yeah, that's too long to panic, because it doesn't matter what day of the week it is.
Speaker 1:I'm up at least at 6 am, okay, because I'm just an early, I'm a morning I'm a 5 am guy, I get it, yeah, yeah yeah, so I mean that's like six hours to to panic, yeah, and do weird things well you know, what the big thing is for me is like hydration, like all right, so like I want to obviously hydrate in the morning, and like making sure like you got the electrolytes and like you know how much am I eating before, especially if it's later in the day. It's like do I eat normally would, or like it's just the whole thing, just like throws me off.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's not good. Yeah, Race directors 8 am Just kidding. Please All right.
Speaker 1:So this year you're going back to Mont Blanc. Hopefully that's amazing. So you had, you did brush on the first injury that you had in 2019. Do you want to kind of elaborate and talk about that and then kind of elaborate and talk about that and then kind of bridge that to like 2021 and go from there?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I also do rock climbing and that's where I met my husband and my two sisters are like famous rock climbers and my mom does big walls and like Yosemite and stuff. So it is deep in our family. So we were so close to Switzerland and it has magic wood, which is like the mecca of bouldering, so I was like we can't leave without going there. So we go there and we climb all day. It's fine.
Speaker 2:I get on this like slabby V4. At the end I'm like 15 feet up and I dropped down and the crash pad folds under my ankle and I have this shearing injury from like 15 feet up and I just shattered my ankle. So I had two fractures like seven torn ligaments and tendons, like an avulsion fracture. It was so bad and of course, I was in a run streak so I decided to do my mile after that and, yeah, I ran a mile on it and it blew up. I was like writhing in pain and our flight was in about four hours and the hospital was three hours away. So I was like we can go to the hospital or we can make our flight. So we decided to make the flight. So we get on like a 17 hour travel back to the states and by the time I got there my foot was just black and pulsing were you in pain like dying?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah and all I could find was ibuprofen.
Speaker 2:Dude, you're tough, oh my god it was a wild trip and like I didn't want to get a wheelchair because I'd be embarrassed in the airport. So I'm like limping and the only shoe I could get on was my sandal. So I had a sandal and a shoe on and my husband's carrying my purse and like running through the airport and it took all I had to not be like. That man stole my purse, you know, but we were already a little late, so it was wild.
Speaker 2:So that kicked off everything and I did try to rehab it a little bit and they were like you probably need surgery. I saw a few guys and so I had surgery and I don't have any hardware but it's all biocomposite. So I've got internal brace and then all new ligaments and I did pretty well with that and I rehabbed that. My first run back on bar trail, I got to bar camp, turned around, took a weird step and shattered my left ankle, and so then I had to get all the way back to my car and then I rehabbed my left ankle. So that was probably two years worth of rehabbing ankle stuff.
Speaker 1:Oh my, then I rehabbed my left ankle, so that was probably two years where the rehabbing ankle stuff and oh my god, yeah. So every time I see people roll ankles I'm like it's wild because, like one of the questions I even had for you, because I didn't know this but I knew you'd broken that ankle after reading that story, but like I was gonna ask like how was the rescue on bar trail not existed, it didn't happen yeah, I was actually with my friends and they saw it happen and my brother was like that was disgusting.
Speaker 2:He's like I didn't even know your foot could move that way. And I was like, yeah, and so I like tried to hold myself together. I was like you guys have to go, because he actually had like a plumber coming to his house and his two young kids were home alone. I was like you can't have some pl, you know, crying my eyes out, and I was like all right, pull it together. You got to get off the mountain and so I was like running and hopping and running and hopping and then I cut down the incline. I was able to like hop down the incline mostly, but I was just like bawling my eyes out and people were looking at me. They're like are you okay? I was like I'm fine, why, you know?
Speaker 1:all right, move them on your ankles. Stick it out in another direction and the boys.
Speaker 2:They ran back to the car and got the car and then met me at the trailhead at least, so I didn't have to do that. Last mile on the road I was like, thanks, guys. And they said I made pretty decent time on one foot. So I was like, all right, I should see what my hopping record was.
Speaker 1:Dude, like as someone that has broken their ankle and gotten surgery on it. Like how did you? I was on the ground, I couldn't even get up when I did it.
Speaker 2:like I was like screaming, cussing in pain, like you're tough yeah, well, I had a moment of that, yeah, and I did, I let myself cry and then I was like all right, all done, like let's go before your adrenaline wears off, and that's just what I kept telling myself. And so it did hurt. I mean, it felt like it was like squishing bone on bone and it was like a little nauseating, but the things you do. When you got to get back to your car.
Speaker 1:I'm sitting here and so people like obviously we don't have this videotape, but like my mouth is, like my jaw hit the ground, yeah, Well, I guess that's maybe something that came from.
Speaker 2:Gymnastics is like your pain threshold is so high, okay, so I've broken just about everything. I've gotten stitches and the big injury that ended my gymnastics career. I actually inches about everything. I've gotten stitches and, uh, the big injury that ended my gymnastics career actually broke my neck and, yeah, I was in a neck brace forever and, um, I got super lucky, like the residual fallout from it is very minimal. So wow, but let's unpack the neck break a little bit.
Speaker 1:I'm just very curious, like like no people think when you break a neck right, they think it's a I don't think of people.
Speaker 2:Associated spinal cord Seven spinal cord Right, right, right.
Speaker 1:But they don't understand. Like it's like a you know, like did you crack the vertebrae?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, the transverse process of your last cervical and your first thoracic. Like I landed straight on my head off the high bar, okay. So I was supposed to flip from the high bar and catch the low bar, but I didn't slow down enough, so I just went flying and missed a head on a mat that was probably like three inches wide on cement, so it was real bad.
Speaker 1:Yeah, how old were you?
Speaker 2:uh, I was 14 okay, wow, yeah, oh, my gosh right. So I I lost feeling in my hands for a while. I get migraines but most of the feelings back. My proprioception is a little weird, but other than that I do pretty good.
Speaker 1:That's crazy so yeah, I got any surgery with that.
Speaker 2:No I was in a hard neck brace for six weeks and then a soft neck brace for six weeks and then rehab forever, and then I just did nothing. That's why I just did nothing forever.
Speaker 1:Jesus, so all right so I'm gonna pivot really quick. So you broke that.
Speaker 1:You broke the left ankle after coming back from from the original bad ankle injury yeah and one of the things I read in the article was that, like you had some trepidation, you were kind of worried like what was going to happen with running or how that was going to transpire with running. Could you walk me through some of the feelings that you felt like and how kind of like that felt, if you like? Were you confident you were going to come back from it or did you feel like you were going to be a different athlete, like, how did that feel?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you know everyone's internal demons when you're low right and you don't have your coping mechanism running. I just kind of talked myself out of it. I was like, hey, you weren't really that good in the first place. You know, just get back to it, do what you enjoy doing. And I just kind of became okay with running, just for my soul. And then you know you start to pick up speed and you're doing okay, and my brother's like, well, you should just see if you can, you know, touch it, touch your time or see if you can do that. And he really encouraged me to get back into it, which was nice. But I just kind of went into it with the mentality of you would do it anyways, even if there weren't a races, and so I just had no expectations and just started running, which is kind of what I do now.
Speaker 1:But very cool. Yeah, that's amazing. I appreciate that because you know if there are any listeners out there or somebody that's going through an injury or dealing with something like that. Like you know, you got to believe your best days are ahead of you. You know, which is very true with you after breaking an ankle twice.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know, like you had an absolute lights out 2022 season, which leads me to like qualifying for worlds after winning pikes and going to chiang mai. Let's talk about that a little bit. Like how, first of all, like after winning pikes, I don't see and I feel like I should have known this, but, like, did you know after winning that race that you were qualifying for worlds or was it like after the fact that you knew that you were going to go to worlds, like how did that work?
Speaker 2:yeah. So I knew it was a qualifier. But I looked at the entry list and britney, uh, was on the list and I was like, well, she's gonna go, that's fine. But I was still in the trying to prove to myself that I was still a good runner and I was like, well, just try to bomb down like see if you can even touch your downhill time and you're talking about britney.
Speaker 2:Yes, britney and I was like she'll mop the floor with you, right, like she's gonna beat you up by 30 minutes and then she's an awesome downhiller. So I was like just try to get to the top efficiently and then see what you can do down. And I think she unfortunately had a really bad day. If she had a great day it would have turned out different. But I had a good day and I was fortunate to qualify and I was just more shocked.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I was like what does this even mean? Because I didn't really look at the details or what it entailed. And Allie Mack was actually there and she's like we get to go Because she was doing the VK and the classic. And I was like what? So it took a lot of planning and Tara and Jonathan Aziz he got qualified too, so she actually helped me because he was like on the ball, he's very like type A, so he had everything planned out and I was just kind of asking her. I was like hey, what document do I need to get?
Speaker 1:You know like, please help me.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, she was like feeding me the beta too, and it just it didn't even feel real even being there.
Speaker 1:What was it like? I mean like talk about like representing your country, Like how did that feel, like representing team USA and kind of like doing that whole thing. What'd you think?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was awesome. Um, it's so cool to be on a team again Cause as as a gymnast, you would show up and we'd all have the same uh Leo on the same warmups and our hair was done perfectly the same way. So, to kind of put on a uniform again, I was like, oh, wow, Like it really made it feel real. It's a big deal. It is. And so when you hit that low, I just remembered like hey, like you have this flag on your chest and you better pick your knees up and go.
Speaker 2:So it was easier to dig deeper when you were there and the camaraderie was amazing and it's just, everyone was so proud of their country too. And then at the end everyone changes jerseys and that was really cool. It was awesome Like everyone came over and they really wanted like to swap with the americans and I was like, oh, they still love us a little bit, so yeah, it was just the whole experience was wild and I had never met any of those athletes really other than ally.
Speaker 2:So I mean you see them like on magazines and you hear their podcast and you're like, oh, I'm just hanging out with adam mary, no big deal or like getting to like meet john albin or somebody, like it's crazy yeah.
Speaker 1:So to preface this for the listeners like you made the 40 K team. What was that race Like? Cause I mean, that had to. Obviously is probably the most competitive race you've ever raced. Right, like what did you think?
Speaker 2:I honestly I think it was as competitive as the Coby race.
Speaker 1:Like I trust score wise.
Speaker 2:It was intimidating just because it was a straight jungle right. And then there were a lot of unknowns. So they were like I don't know if this aid station is going to have water, I don't know if they're going to get it out of the creek or if it will be drinkable water.
Speaker 2:So it was really logistically heavy and then you had to carry a lot of gear, which was weird, not my favorite, and it was steep. So I think it was 42K with 10,000 feet of climbing, wow, but it wasn't very technical. So it was like pavers on, like a real steep mud climb and then you could just bomb down this like almost paver road or dirt.
Speaker 2:It was fast, yeah, yeah fast, and then it was hot too, and I'd never run in the jungle before and so I'd never been so wet, and so you can't really put your hands on your knees to like power hike you, you just slide off, and my socks kept sliding to my toes. So at one point I had to take my shoes off to put my socks back on and I was like, do you just take them off? And I was like, no, you don't take your socks off, tina. So like just weird problems, and like my bib kept chafing my ribs I actually have like a scar from where it burned my ribs and the safety pin was like stabbing me and it was crazy. So ribs and the safety pin was like stabbing me and it was crazy. So just just a different environment. I wish I could have run a little bit stronger and um, but we did get second as a team which was pretty amazing, I should have told you.
Speaker 1:I should ask you to bring the the metal where the metal show up with it it's cute.
Speaker 2:It's like, uh, in the shape of a key and it's silver and it's actually got some pretty good weight to it. It was so cool. Yeah, it was awesome to get a medal. Very neat it is yeah, I mean, I've done some world cups for gymnastic stuff and it was like to be at that caliber again was really weird. I was like whoa.
Speaker 1:I was like you're 32 and like you're hanging on, let me ask you guys did you deal with any like especially making it to that level, because it is such rare air and a lot. I think a lot of listeners and a lot of athletes that listen to this have goals and aspirations for that. Did you ever feel like any degree of like imposter syndrome or anything like that? Or yeah, I still do I mean when you asked to do a podcast.
Speaker 2:I was like, are you sure? Like because I just view myself as I don't know almost more of a weekend warrior, like I just love to go out there, I love to make strava maps and find new places and, um, to be on team usa, I still think I could have thought of probably five or six women that would have scored better for the team. And like, don't think of it that way. Like you didn't dnf.
Speaker 2:You tried your hardest, you, you guys still got second. So I yeah, every day imposter syndrome, hardcore wild wow, that's so cool.
Speaker 1:And congratulations again. I mean yeah thank you, thank you um, so all right, I'm going to dive a little bit more into the logistics of the race too. Like one of the things you had mentioned, there was a lot of gear like what kind of required gear did they have? You guys have?
Speaker 2:yeah, you like you had to have a cup and a jacket and a different bottle. So you had to have, like two different bottles, a windbreaker, a jacket, a jacket, a safety blanket, a functional phone and at least a liter of water. Just like a UTMB kit, basically, yeah, and I was like, hi, you're in the jungle and it's 100 degrees.
Speaker 2:I don't need a jacket, please don't make me bring the jacket or the safety blanket Right Like one is probably going to be warm enough, but I think the rules carried over because it's a mountain Like the world, mountain and trail and I think they just went with the mountain. Okay, trail guidelines makes sense which I understand.
Speaker 1:Safety, safety, third, but did you get into like the nitty-gritty like I know, like gym and all these like top, top end athletes like are like psychos about, like weight and stuff like that did you like? Because I feel like I mean like they're like uh, how do I say they're like? Uh, I almost want to say guaranteed packs, but they're, they're packs that they have to bring with them. I feel like they could fit everything in a plastic bag.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the mandatory gear, yeah, so a few of the athletes actually went on amazon and bought phones that were like two inches big and they would just turn on and off, and my brother's like, well, if you're gonna get a tiny phone, then you should probably stop eating cookies. I was like, oh, you know, like touche, but also very true right so I was like the phone weighs nothing.
Speaker 2:It is easy to get fixated on these details and make them feel like they're huge. But yeah, I just carried my normal phone and kind of went for it. I was like this three ounces isn't going to weigh you down, tried to. I tried to really dig into the elevation profile and heat training. So I was doing sauna like three days a week and it was winter here, which sucks. It's hard to get burnt right in the winter. So I was literally doing laps on Longs Ranch Road in the incline.
Speaker 1:Just over and over and over Yep.
Speaker 2:I'm yep.
Speaker 1:I was there all november, okay, so, and then, uh, yeah, sauna twice a week. It's funny, hannah. I feel like hannah, you I shouldn't say this on the pot, but like I feel like hannah was all over longs ranch road getting ready for worlds last year, like it's like the the spot you know uh, all good yeah yeah, yeah, and she there and um, I think they were doing em.
Speaker 1:Uh, her and zach were doing emma's too, oh yeah and this peak from section 16, yeah, emma's Peak from Section 16. Well, it's hard to stay low. Yeah, the pain curve.
Speaker 2:But it's hard to get vert when you're low, other than those places.
Speaker 1:It is for sure. So you said you don't ski, so you run year-round.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I run year-round, so I think I'm on the treadmill maybe twice a year. As long as it's over zero degrees, I'm outside.
Speaker 1:What does your training look like? What does David have you like volume-wise Like what do you guys usually do?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so anywhere between like 75 to 85 miles a week, okay, and right now I'm doing pretty big vert like 12 to 14,000 a week.
Speaker 1:That's solid, okay, yeah.
Speaker 2:And then still the traditional rest day on monday, and then I double on wednesday, thursday and, just for lower impact, the first double is a tread hill okay, so nice. Yeah, yeah, I do a lot of tread hills as much as I hate, it right, not a big fan of the treadmill, but no I it's necessary yeah, I'm like you're old and you're prone to injury. Like, get your butt on the treadmill, right do you feel, now you're, you're 35, right, yeah, 35 do you and you're like I mean that's prime, you're, you're in your basic.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but if you say it enough, it's true do you, do you feel like, how does that feel as an athlete? Like at that 35, because you mean like, for instance, like joe just turned 40 and he's still at the top of his game, like, do you want to do that? Continue and continue to do this, or like what's your thoughts on that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely I think I want to race as long as I'm still placing and having fun, and then I think it will just evolve into maybe I don't know FKTs or exploring new trails or going longer, Right. Like you just, it evolves as you get older, that's fair, so uh, but like people like Maude, I think she's 37. Yeah. And she just like mopped the floor with all those young people in Kobe. So the inspiration is out there for sure.
Speaker 1:There's so many incredible athletes. Like is there anybody you can point to that? Like were you starstruck when you stood on that line? Like cause Maude is like internationally renowned. Like is one of the best in the world.
Speaker 2:Like it's wild yeah, yeah, her and the philemon and yeah, patrick, and wow yeah uh, who's the guy from morocco? I can never say elizine elizine, yes, elizine, he was so awesome is he a little guy?
Speaker 2:he seems like kind of short from yeah, I think he's five two like I was. I was quite a bit taller than him, yeah, but he's so funny. He comes up to us. He's like are you from the us? I was like, yeah, colorado. He's like I love obama. That's the first thing he said to me. I was like yes. I was like we can be friends, so we just started talking about like his. He is a guide on a safari and it's like a family thing. And I was like I love family. I was like I see my siblings every day, you know. So it was so cool to connect to people.
Speaker 1:That Golden Trail series story that they put out about him like the YouTube short was absolutely amazing, like they kind of you know, went into his backstory a little bit and like his life in Morocco as a guide and I was like wow, like this guy is really cool, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was interesting to actually ask a lot of the athletes because a lot of them weren't full time. Like I talked to this one lady and she does investigations for like the FBI, for fraud, and so she gets to do like month long cases and investigate all these business people. I was like that's so cool. She's like, yeah, but then they get like a $30 fine, so it's a little anticlimactic. I was like, but it's like you're a detective, so it was cool to see everyone kind of had their own little thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's amazing. Now, how does it work? Like, do you guys? Now, I knew you were doing it as kind of like there to be competitive in race, but you were also doing it as a vacation as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So do you guys like did you stay like at the athlete housing that they put up, or how did that work?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so they actually booked rooms in a hotel, yeah, and so you could just tell time like, uh, apply. And they're like we'll give you this much support and then if you get top 10 you get this much support, and then so it like tears down. But since I brought my husband, I booked outside of them because it was actually cheaper to stay in the same hotel with just the two of us.
Speaker 2:So, um, you can either go through them or outside of them. They did cause problems because then there was like some mix-ups with my bib, but that was my bad rookie, rookie move in the series but yeah, it was cool, everyone kind of ate breakfast at the same time and there's a lot of camaraderie, everybody's yeah, yeah that's cool. You're hanging out with the reporters and all the photographers and it was.
Speaker 1:It was fun. Did you go to the press conferences they have and all that stuff, or?
Speaker 2:yeah, I did uh, because ali was talking on one of them, and ali's like one of my good friends, so I was like I'll go her. And then they also did the announcements for like the technical components of the race. After the press conference. So it was really advantageous to be there because they were telling you all the logistics and apparently somebody went through and pulled all the flags twice and so they were like really trying to get like tell technical details there and oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:But cause there was one trail, I think you went on three times in different directions each time. And so everyone's like are there going to be people there? Like are we going to figure out which way to go? Like how confusing is it going to be? And they had it flagged and it was done beautifully, but it was stressful. Just looking at it Like, oh no.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. Did you consider it all doing the race in China, or no?
Speaker 2:I should have. So going to scared me. In general, I was like I don't know how the food's gonna be and the politics, or there's some turmoil over there for americans yeah yeah, and I wish I would have looked at the profile because I I'm not great at many things, but I'm really good at altitude and I wanted to run at 15 000 feet so bad. So the fomo is so real for that one so high oh, it's like my heart is pounding.
Speaker 2:I want, I want to do it so bad. So I was sad, sad to fly back. I was like, oh, you were that close, I should have looked at it more. But I was real sad I didn't do it.
Speaker 1:So being like, I'll call you, I guess you could say the rightful, I guess you could say the right word would be the queen of Pikes Peak. What, if you don't mind me asking like, and you don't have to give away too much inside baseball, but would you say your, is it like more so your training is what makes you get an altitude, or would you say it's more physiological? I don't know Um but do you do a lot of three, two ones, like in the summer, like what? No?
Speaker 2:So I truly believe you can't get much more like physical adaptation above about 10,000 feet, like you can get used to suffering and that maybe that mental aspect helps some people. But you're not going to make more red blood cells, you're not going to increase your hematocrit or anything between doing 14,000 feet and 10,000 feet. So I spend maybe once a week, maybe once every other week up there, but I don't put a whole lot of value in it. So I think it's just learning how to grind.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And I don't really notice the altitude, until treeline anyways.
Speaker 1:That's about. Yeah, I'd say it's the same. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I don't really feel lightheaded at 10,000 feet. It's more like usually 11, 12. You know what For me it's those switchbacks just above bar, you know, those like semi-runnable, like there should be runnable.
Speaker 1:That's where die, just just below a frame, but just above bar camp, well, there's one that's wicked long right and there's a bunch of roots and boulders and it's just hard to get a rhythm. Yeah, yeah, and that's always where I feel. Yeah, that's always where I feel the altitude, and then once I pop out above tree line, I feel great.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I don't know I, I feel probably the worst right on the 16 stairs. But I, I just rationalize it. I'm like you feel terrible at that point yeah because you've been running for two and a half hours and it's steep now because it's 13 great again up there. So it's 13 at the bottom and 13 at the top, like she's. She's mean, like that. I love her. What do you uh?
Speaker 1:what's your take then on like the w's and stuff like that? Like, do you I'm just so curious to like unpack, kind of like your rate? You don't have to give away too much, but like you're racing how you race that, are you a little less? Do you drop the hammer on the Ws? I guess it's a question that I'm trying to figure out. Yeah, because a lot of I noticed like shit, like Eli and Patrick Joe, they're running like 738 minute pace on the Ws and you're trying to hold on to your life. At that point I feel like once you get up above, yeah, and like that's you're trying to hold on to your life.
Speaker 2:At that point I feel like once you get up, yeah for sure. So I have summited, as it might be embarrassing, but I've done the ascent like a hundred times, which is kind of cool about strava, right, it tells you, and I was like, oh, that's really fun. So I've played around with it and I don't think you get back what you put in if you hammer the w's right so I think if you just back off 10 or 20 seconds, you'll save minutes above treeline.
Speaker 2:And I just race pretty conservative in general, which is Really yeah. I always tell myself I'm like this is your time, you're going to go out hard, and I'm like nope. And then I bail. My buddy, dan Vega, yells at me all the time. He's like, just stay on it. He's like the attrition is huge. People are stumbling above tree line and if you can keep any sort of little like even a trot it makes such a difference. I love snatching souls above tree line, but it's funny you say that I had.
Speaker 1:I just had Kieran Neon last weekend and he was, I think. What did he call? He didn't say souls, he called them scalps.
Speaker 2:Oh, and I want me my scalps.
Speaker 1:I was like all right, dude, like that's amazing. Yeah, I said that. But no, he told this really funny story about at the Ascent this year. It was like Francesco Pupi like was laying on the ground and like Kieran like pulled over to like ask, like that's wild, yeah, I mean, I have seen some people in rough shape up there like Tin man.
Speaker 2:They can't bend their legs and once they lay down they can't get back up, because the second they bend their knees they start cramping and so they're trying to stand people up with straight legs and it's wild.
Speaker 1:That's hilarious.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the altitude is unforgiving and the sun will just beat you up too, because will just beat you up too, because if it's like 60 up there, you're just scorching, yeah, but I do. Well, I like to say like the worse the conditions are, the better for me. Like if I can take off the top end of the speed of those little fasties, I might have a chance.
Speaker 1:okay, but one thing I wanted to uh, get back to. Sorry, I didn't want to cut off, but like no, please, I just didn't want to lose the place. When you said you try to get above 10 000 feet, this is just for me, I'm just curious. Oh yeah, like you said, once a week, like even through the winter, are you trying to do that or?
Speaker 2:uh, a little bit. Until this year I've been able to go to bar camp regularly, and now I'm just kind of like, uh, well, it's probably better just to run a little bit faster. So, but there's like rosa and I think moscow goes right under 10 and you can get there all winter too. Yeah, so just that. And then I was offsetting it a little bit this year with sauna, which I know you're like increasing blood volume versus your hematocrit, but I mean, still it helps a little bit. But just try to be smart about stuff, yeah, and if you stay lower, you can also just keep your speed higher too, so you're not losing that.
Speaker 1:Interesting. So, Cool, you're not losing that interesting, so cool. No, I appreciate that. Yeah, a little tidbits. Uh, no, because I feel the same way, like I I'll be racing. I think the next race is like the next high up race is like june 20 something, and I'm like trying to figure out like okay, can I run up sentinel point? I'm like I don't think so. Like that's 12 5, but I think we're still buried in snow there's so much snow up there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, check out muskoku. I think it's close to 10. Yeah, okay Deal done and it'd be good for the technical running. Yes, I think it's the most technical spot in the canyon.
Speaker 1:Good to know, I appreciate that. Yeah, yeah. One of the other things I wanted to get into was we talked about a lot of your 2024 season. You're not doing pikes this year because I saw you on the start list for mammoth?
Speaker 2:yeah, so if I do well at uh blanc, if I get in, I do good, everything goes well. I would like to try to finish out the series. You know, if I bonk and I get 40th, I don't know if it's worth going to california, so then I would hop into pikes. Um, I guess that's one mega perk of being a winner is you can just sign up the day before.
Speaker 2:That's amazing, like you have an automatic entry, so it's hard. I'm actually sad to not do it. I was actually thinking. I was like maybe you could do the Ascent and then fly out, and I was like, no, no, no, like, just do less, do less, it's more. But I was trying to fin schedule.
Speaker 2:But I will probably for sure do barge on mountain race though, because that's july, yeah so get on the mountain at least, and all the proceeds go to the local cross-country teams, and I don't know if you've done it, but it's no, it's on my list next year, next year so all of the cross-country teams host a aid station and you have to vote for which one's the best, so they theme them out. So there's like jurassic park, the minions, the adams family, like it is so much fun super cool and whoever wins, they get the most money, so they trickle it down wow yeah, it's a blast shout out the bar trail mountain race heck yeah, if you're in town or can get to it.
Speaker 2:It is so much fun you know what it's it's.
Speaker 1:For me it's always been timing, like last year it didn't coincide with, like, my racing calendar. This year we're getting married, like, I think, that weekend. So I'm like, dude, that's not gonna happen yeah, it would.
Speaker 2:Yeah, especially if you get stitches or something like you don't want to go to the wedding with, like your teeth knocked down.
Speaker 1:No, I know, you know it's funny. Everybody like I mean super amazing race. I'm not not shitting. I'd be like I've met so many people that have, like actually injured themselves at that race yeah, do bars, so it's sharp yeah, so that deteriorated granite.
Speaker 2:I got a bunch of sutures in my hand. Actually I did a full penguin slide and I was digging rocks out of it forever and my brother actually like had to sew me up. But I looked like I accidentally murdered somebody because I was running into town and everyone was staring at me because I didn't even check myself after I fell and I was like what the heck? And I get back to my car and I had blood splatter all over my face and my shirt and everything. My hand was just like hemorrhaging but like hemorrhaging blood and I was like, oh, that's why people are staring at you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so there's not like that iconic photo of like ally with like two, like destroyed knees, like just blood running down.
Speaker 2:Oh my god, and her little um white russian.
Speaker 1:Yeah, happy as a clam, yeah oh yeah, so what a cool race. I definitely have that on the list. Um, let's unpack mammoth a little bit, so is it? Would this, if you do make it to mammoth after is, would this be the first year you did like are trying to qualify for a final for the golden trail?
Speaker 2:yeah, because the well, this will be the second time I tried.
Speaker 1:Uh, the first time I broke my ankle at the walk Right right, so I could that obviously.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was going to do. I think it was the Dolomites after that, but what a cool race. Yeah, I was sad to miss that one, yeah, but so this will be my second attempt, so hopefully, okay.
Speaker 1:Hopefully it plays out a little bit better. Yeah, I've heard. I year I know there was a lot of issues with people getting lost and stuff.
Speaker 2:Oh, which is my biggest fear. I am navigationally challenged. Oh my Lanta. It is so bad. If I have a 50-50,. 100% of the time I will pick the wrong way. So I do program the maps into my watch, which has been a savior.
Speaker 1:But if they have any in-course, day changes.
Speaker 2:You're're like, do I go with my watch, do I go with the flag? And then you have, like this panic moment. So you know, and maybe it's a false sense of security, but I do try to program the, the route in, at least that's fair.
Speaker 1:Does you what? Do you got a garmin or what?
Speaker 2:yeah, I do the epic okay yeah, I've got the chorus.
Speaker 1:One of the cool things about the chorus I was really loving is like now, when you build the maps, like in like if you build the map and then export it in there, like it actually gives you directions, like it'll tell you when to make a left, when to make a right. This is amazing. This is like new for me.
Speaker 2:I don't know it's so nice and then you can actually program waypoints in. So if there is like a really hidden climb, I'll put a waypoint in and it'll just chime like look left. And I'll do that like 100 feet before I'm supposed to. I like actually start looking for my little turn that I'm probably going to miss.
Speaker 1:That's nifty.
Speaker 2:Yeah, or you can program aid stations or whatever you need to in there.
Speaker 1:Smart.
Speaker 2:So yeah, technology is amazing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right, yeah, I love my car run Space-age technology.
Speaker 2:Yeah, my husband likes to give me a hard time because he proposed to me and we were at some guy about my watch. I was like this is my favorite inanimate object and he's like. I was like what do you mean? He's like this diamond's not gonna get me back to my car, like so it was funny. He was just like, oh, your favorite inanimate object, huh yeah all right, so we're coming up on.
Speaker 1:Uh, we're almost an hour already, which oh? Sorry, we got there no, no, we got there really quick, so I'm gonna get into some goofy questions or some. I'll get in some serious questions and then we'll get into some goofy ones. First one is who inspires you?
Speaker 2:Man. That is so hard because it's easy to look at the elites and be like, oh, they're so inspirational, but no, it's like my crew that I run with. So there's four guys I run with Dan, vega, toby, our friend Mike and my brother, and they just inspire me for different reasons. Vega and toby came from like a collegiate background adams and um michigan and so they're just fast, they're like metronomes, they can just turn it over no matter what, and they're in their 50s and they're still kicking my butt toby's yeah, I know of him.
Speaker 2:I've never met him personally, but I just he looks very young my pr to bar camp one time he was like talking the whole time and I was just on his heels and we get there and he's like, oh, why didn't you say anything? I was like because I was actively dying. So it's just amazing what they can do. And then jesse and mike didn't run um growing up. So the fact that they're so successful and fast now is just like inspirational and they're all dads and they just make time and it's just so cool to see like them living the lifestyle of trail adventure while being like fasties.
Speaker 2:I love it, so I think they inspire me the most. For sure, super cool.
Speaker 1:One of the things you said to me earlier was in regards to like you kind of looked at yourself as like a weekend warrior in a lot of ways. What is your like? Why Like? As far as like doing this, is it more inspiration by being in the mountains? Is it more competition? Like what drives competition? Like what drives you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love the lifestyle Like I like trying hard, I like the suffering part. I love waking up and just cranking in the sun. It just satiates, it just makes my whole day better. So I like to run by myself a lot and it's just my time. I work through all of the stuff in my head, I plan, I like make fairy tale dreams of things that I want to do later. And then there is the social aspect. Like that is my social time and obviously running with my brother is like my favorite. So family time, friend time, it's just. It checks all the boxes for me it's amazing and it.
Speaker 2:I would just be remiss to not compete because I feel like I do have some talent and it's just kind of you see it on Instagram and you're like, hmm, I wonder how I could have done, and that feeling is awful, that pit in your stomach. So I just try to put my hat in the ring periodically to keep the FOMO at bay. That's fair.
Speaker 1:That's good. What? What would you say? Or I should say who? Who would you say is your goat, male and female?
Speaker 2:Gosh, that's so hard. I know there's no right answer to this question yeah, yeah, yeah, Gosh, I like our local people. I am like horribly biased right Same.
Speaker 1:So I would say like Zach.
Speaker 2:It's probably Zach Miller and Allie.
Speaker 1:Okay. All right, fair enough? No, I think those are both.
Speaker 2:I mean, you can't say go without like saying courtney as well, but I just I have so much respect for the short distance too like I feel like it's under underrepresented. It is so hard to get those races right like you can't puke and throw up and eat a bunch of gummy bears and still win.
Speaker 1:Like you gotta nail it it's true, so okay, all right, so let's get into some. I guess we'll into some goofy goofy ones. Okay, what's your take on Bigfoot?
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, I am a skeptic to a fault. He is not real. No way, I'm not buying it.
Speaker 1:Wow so this is a hard no that's right, zero percent.
Speaker 2:No, I'm just kidding.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I, yeah, I agree that's fair. I mean like he could have been real at one point, but like definitely not. Yeah, what's your take on the aliens though?
Speaker 2:Okay, I think aliens are real Because, just, it's a numbers game, right, there are so many stars in the universe and there's so many stars in space, and to think that there's a planet out there that doesn't have an atmosphere that's conducive to support life, like, I'm not saying it has to be a high-functioning species, but there might be a blob out there eating some I don't know, and maybe it's not even like water-based, like it could be something super cool. And also mushrooms are aliens.
Speaker 1:I'm just saying that's true. No, you're right. Do cordyceps hijacking like ants' brains and then like shooting out from their skulls like that's alien well, there's a lot, I mean like mushroom, like cephalopods, like if you look like they think, like I mean I don't know how theoretical this is, but like they think like octopi and like squids, like there's a, there's a possibility could be, you know. Yeah, it's crazy. Who the hell knows?
Speaker 2:right, we don't even know what's in the sea. Like are we supposed to say that we can't like there's definitely nothing out there?
Speaker 1:what's your uh? Do you think we went to the moon?
Speaker 2:yeah, for sure I've got to believe in our space program.
Speaker 1:This is a question I'm like all right as a so as a sciencey guy, okay, this is a question. I've been like I don't think any of the podcasts have actually come out yet, so we're gonna see how, how people react. You're not the first person I've asked this question to.
Speaker 2:You might get edited out.
Speaker 1:You're not the first person I've asked this to. We'll see if we can. No, I'm kidding, but like yeah, I don't know. I have recently listened to a couple podcasts and done some research that has made me, as a science guy, significantly more skeptical than I used to be.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like that. They just needed it in the time as like a propaganda thing to beat them.
Speaker 1:Yeah to to like basically beat the russians okay or the soviet unit at the time yeah and it's just like there's some cia stuff going on there there's some interesting stuff, definitely. Yeah, if you're ever bored and feel like going down a google hole like definitely yeah, when you're on a plane for 10 hours yeah, exactly, exactly, yeah oh, it's so crazy.
Speaker 2:I know everything with all the ai has made me so skeptical. Any picture I see now I'm like fake, yeah, and I'm just like why are you like this now?
Speaker 1:yeah, no hard, because everything I feel like I question everything now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, computer generated I'm a little all right.
Speaker 1:So you, you've walked into this one no backup, what do you? Uh? What's your take on then?
Speaker 2:Man, I'm a lot nicer to my Siri.
Speaker 1:now let me tell you I say thank you and please no.
Speaker 2:I've seen Terminator. But yeah, I think it's a good thing. I think, with a lot of help with the mundane tasks, it'll free people to be more creative and engaged and present. So I feel like we're in this weird transition period where we're so reliant on technology. It's like screen time is your face time and hopefully, with the advancement of AI, we can spend more face time with other faces.
Speaker 1:That's a good spin on it. I appreciate that.
Speaker 2:That's my hope at least. I always try to find silver linings.
Speaker 1:I'm not. I'm super negative. I'm like Skynet's going live we. I'm like Skynet's going live, we're going to be Terminators coming in a decade we're going to be in pods.
Speaker 2:the Matrix no one's coming with the blue pill that's.
Speaker 1:The other thing is like oh my God, the simulation theory. I could get into it all. I don't want to keep you on that, yeah, no.
Speaker 2:I'm like hoping, like, oh, like surgery with nanotechnology will get better and cancer research Like there's so many cool things that can do for us too.
Speaker 1:That's something we don't didn't hit on, actually, like, I'll just like, really quickly, we'll throw a little subset into like what you do, like as a lyme disease researcher. I wanted to ask that like can you talk about that a little bit?
Speaker 2:yeah. So we have a few pill, a few panels that pay the bills. But for lyme we're working on a direct test because right now the fda approved test is not a direct test. So it's testing your antibody response to the bacteria. But the bacteria is really shifty so it can change its surface proteins like basically at will, and it's really hard to detect once you're infected. So we are working on a way to provocate, get people moving around and we test for different surface proteins and we also test for co-infectors. So we're really trying to just catch the people who are falling through the cracks, that their body isn't fighting the bacteria off but they do have it. So we're constantly trying to improve our tests, work on primer design. We might actually add a panel for dogs, like super random stuff. Right yeah, the poor little canines get sick too.
Speaker 2:I think, their symptoms are much less pronounced, but they still get them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've had a couple. I mean I had a family member and friends in the past get Lyme disease because I have a lot of family from the East Coast. It's like super prevalent there.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, and it was like a thing called war on Lyme because patients were convinced that they weren't getting better and conventional medicine says you take your antibiotics and you're all better, like, go on your way. And I think that stigma has been lessened with COVID and people getting long COVID. So now people are kind of looking at Lyme disease and be like, okay, maybe you did get Lyme disease, you know, and you still have it or you have the fallout symptoms from it and it's like this big gray area. So hopefully with more research we can figure out what's going on with everybody. Can I ask you a nerdy question real quick?
Speaker 1:I? I should probably Google is is it? It's a bacteria. You get that when you get bit by the tick.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it's. It's from a tick and like they are just the host of it. So they bite you and then it enters your bloodstream, but it hides out in your joints and stuff like that. So a lot of times it's not circulating in your bloodstream. So if it's not in there, your antibodies can't detect it and you can't mount a defense against it and clear it. So I think it can be in your system long enough to cause a lot of problems, even if you do eventually clear it gotcha like the damage can be done, but it yeah, it's a tricky little bacteria that's crazy.
Speaker 1:We don't get, like we don't have it. Colorado, do we?
Speaker 2:I know we get, we're not supposed to, so they're only on specific ticks and those ticks aren't, uh, in our region really okay. So, like some people have tested positive here, but but it's like, did you get it somewhere else? Because ticks can live for your house in three years, like, which is the worst fact I ever learned in my life. Oh, my God Right, life ruined.
Speaker 1:I hate arachnids man. What the hell Spiders, scorpions ticks.
Speaker 2:I just hate arthropods. Oh, my gosh Well not all, just the wasps.
Speaker 1:You don't like lobsters.
Speaker 2:Wasps no.
Speaker 1:Really.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they're kind of gross. I haven't eaten lobster in a long time, but I don't dislike it, I just don't want to crunch the shell to eat it. It makes me think of like okay, like a lobster makes me think of like okay, it's like an ocean bug.
Speaker 2:Yeah, shit, I never thought about that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it, it's like a dumpster. Yeah, yeah, so tofu, no kidding. Well, on that note, who's hungry? Yeah, well, thank you so much for coming on. Um, do you want, you want to plug your instagram so we get you some followers like? Is there anything you would drop plugs for?
Speaker 2:sure, I don't really do much. It's all food climbing or running my instagram is pretty boring, but it's just kris mas 924, awesome. So because christmas 24, 7 was taken and she's not her name's, not even christina, I was gonna message her like may I please have this handle? Can? We trade I know I'll give you the nine if you just give me the seven, but it's amazing, yeah well.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for coming on. I appreciate it and best of luck to you in your season.
Speaker 2:Thank you, you as well, crush it out of broken arrow.
Speaker 1:Thank you. Thank you. What'd you guys think I told you that was a banger of an episode. Christina is such an incredible human and just a phenomenal athlete man. Lots of really good information there and just lots of, just lots of exciting stories. She, um is absolutely a legend in the making of if not already. Um absolutely up there on, uh the Pike's peak marathon uh, greatest of all time, without a doubt. Um, yeah, so I want to thank her so much for being on the pod.
Speaker 1:Before we get going, I'm just going to go ahead and plug her Instagram so you guys can hop on Instagram and give her a follow. Um Instagram handle is Chris K-R-I-S Mass, m-a-s. 924. You can also just pop on Instagram and just search Christina K-R-I-S-T-I-N-A. Mascarinas and M-A-S-C-A-R-E-N-A-S. Again want to thank her so much and go give her a follow.
Speaker 1:And if you guys enjoyed the episode, um, you know, please reach out to her, send her some DMS uh and wish her good luck on some of the incredible races that she'll be uh she'll be partaking in the summer. Um, last but not least, if you guys enjoyed this episode, please, please, please, please, hop on uh Apple, as well as Spotify, and give us a rating and review. Um, that's how we can actually get this podcast out to the the masses and you guys can kind of follow along the sub uh, you know, the steep stuff, as well as some of the, uh, sub ultra community stuff that we've been doing lately. Um, again, hope you guys enjoyed this one. Until the next one, steep stuff podcast, I'm your host, james Lariello. Thank you, we'll see you next time.