The Steep Stuff Podcast
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The Steep Stuff Podcast
Big Alta 50K & 28K Race Companion
Big Alta 50K & 28K Race Companion with Co-Host, Nick Tusa
What is up, fam? Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast. I'll keep this one short and sweet, but I am so excited to bring you guys an episode with none other than my boy, nick Tusa, a frequent co-host of the Steep Stuff Podcast. Join me to do a race preview for the big Alta 50K and 28K. Super excited to bring this one to you. It's the first pretty hot ultra and sub-ultra race of the season that I think. As far as hot goes, I think in terms of competitive, the men's 50K and 28K are stacked. The women's 50K and 28K are stacked. Super excited to see what's going to unfold over this beautiful weekend in Central California. So, guys, without further ado, hope you enjoy this one. Here we go. Big Alta 50K and 20AK race preview. People, earth, guys, whatever you're doing, stop what you're doing and listen up.
Speaker 1:I've got an exciting announcement to make. Next Saturday, march 29th, at eight o'clock in the morning, we are going to be celebrating our one-year anniversary for the Steep Stuff podcast. Hop on over to the Colorado running company, come join us. We're going to be putting on a live podcast with Bailey Kowalczyk. Um, we are going to be demoing some new ultra and um race vest brought to you by ultimate direction as well as refreshments. Um, we're going to be doing shoe demos as well with Nike trail. Uh, we're going to be giving away Sita socks and ultimate direction gear as well.
Speaker 1:Um, guys, I am so excited to do this. I want to so excited to invite you all. Hope you guys can join me. Um, one last thing. I do uh want to give a pitch for ultimate direction. If you are interested in a pack right now, or looking for a pack, um, check out ultimate direction site and use code steep stuff pod for 25 off. This past week they just finally dropped the new ultra 12 liter and race a six liter vest in two beautiful colorways. If you're looking for a vest for your upcoming adventure or racing season, check them both out. I think you won't be disappointed. Like I said, use code steep stuff pod for 25 off. Thanks guys, 25% off. Thanks guys.
Speaker 2:It's time We'll be right back. Ladies and gentlemen, we are live opportunity to but you know what man?
Speaker 1:when I was doing my research for the 28k, I was like so bummed because like like, fuck man, like you could so be crushing these guys. Like next year, dude, next year, next year 100, hell yeah um so yeah people, welcome.
Speaker 1:Uh, nick and I. Nick, frequent co-host of the steep stuff pod for race previews, is on today. We're going to be talking about the big Alta 50K and 28K. It's going to be happening this Saturday, march 22nd and Sunday, march 23rd. I'm pumped man. We finally got something to talk about here for a race preview.
Speaker 2:I know I feel like it's been forever, but season's underway. Yeah, it is underway.
Speaker 1:There's a lot to talk about here, a lot to kick off dude. I mean, I think, some of the first talking points like I was just astonished by the men's 50k field like, oh my gosh, like you're talking, like I mean we're 15 deep in, like world-class men that you know any point could win this race, which is crazy for a march race like right, like that's nuts um and the women's 50k is deep it's deeper than it's significantly deeper than 28k, so I think there's a lot to talk about on the women's 50K is deep.
Speaker 1:It's deeper than it's significantly deeper than the 28K, so I think there's a lot to talk about on the women's side as well. Returning champion and course record holder of the 28K, miss Tabor Hemming, or should I say Mrs Tabor Hemming Tabor Hemming is back and running the 50K as well. So, yeah, have you talked to any information there, any inner side or information on the hemmings that you you've got I.
Speaker 2:I got nothing, honestly, other than um, knowing that this is going to be taver's first trail race of the year coming off the roads. Um, I don't think her road season is done yet either. Um, sounds like she's going to be doing boston in oh wow, april, so we'll see. I just just like a little tune up for that. Boston is hilly. I guess it's not as hilly as this, but yeah, yeah. And then Eli. Yeah, I don't know, I'm curious how things went after coming off Black Canyon. Yeah, yeah, we'll see.
Speaker 1:You know my thoughts on Eli, dude. We'll get more into the, obviously, the analysis part, but like it's interesting. Eli is such an interesting guy where, like, the shorter the distance, the harder he is to beat right. Like, yeah, you know, it's um, I think david roche has his hands full. Some of these guys, you know, are gonna get to see, like you know, like I think, because eli the last two races what jfk 50 and then black canyon. You know that's a little bit more of a held back, eli trying to figure out pacing for a longer distance race, but he knows what he could do here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, a race this short and at sea level, it falls to the walls for the entire time. I mean, he is not letting out the gas for a second. I can imagine that he's probably going to take it out and it's going to be up to David or Brian Becker or Johnny or someone just to hang on to him. There's a lot of good dynamics there. It's going to be up to David or Brian Becker or Johnny or someone just to hang on to him, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's a lot of good dynamics there, like a lot of Boulder dynamics that I think we can we can get into too. What do you think about these courses, man, there's some, they're like. The 28 K, particularly, I think, speaks to me a little bit more Cause it's just this very aesthetic loop Like what do you think of the courses?
Speaker 2:um, I think it's, it's sweet course. Um, I love the amount of climbs on it, how fast it is. Um, I don't know just the smooth, the smoothness of the trails there and in california or something else. Um, I know they made a few changes this year. Um, they took out the, the whopper, which is the, uh, the big descent. I would say it's about a couple of miles from the finish or so, but I mean, this thing drops like it's like almost like a thousand feet in a mile, like it's on like a, on like a road, not technical at all. So I'm talking like you're a couple hours in a race, bombing down at you know, four minute pace. Um, and that broke some people last year, I heard that broke. That broke matt daniels last year. Okay, um, so we'll have to see things are going to be a little different. I know, um, I know they were bummed. They weren't able to keep that in. Um, hopefully next year, but, um, but yeah, no, of course, looks incredible.
Speaker 1:Um, that area is just so good yeah, yeah, dude, it's a beautiful area, like I don't know, like the 28k specifically. To me, like 50K is a little long, that's a really long way to run for me, but the 28K, I don't know, it just stokes my enthusiasm a little bit. Dude, do you know if there's going to be what do you call it, if there's going to be a live stream this year?
Speaker 2:There's not, there's not. They said yeah, yeah, or the sponsors or something along those lines.
Speaker 1:I think maybe um who did it last year.
Speaker 2:Who aravipa owns it? What's the name of their company? Oh, no, post. Yeah, they might have other priorities that they're pushing towards, maybe their aravipa races or something like that. But uh, no, free trial. Yeah, no, it is free trial stuff. They need to just start their own. I mean it's I don't know. There's plenty of opportunity in the sport to to do stuff like like that.
Speaker 1:I agree, I, or like, even even like, start your own, or like, cause it seems like from what Tom Hooper said, um, he's the RD at six or three endurance. Shout out, shout out. Tom Hooper, it's my, it's my dog right there, um, anyway, he's like he. He said it's easier but, like in some of the more like I think of, like pikes, how hard it would be to do something like that, right? So yeah, you know some of these races. It's possible because, like, you're in the greater san francisco metro area, more or less when you know you're essentially doing this race.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, yeah, dylan said last year they did it out of his garage at his house.
Speaker 1:No shit, yeah like respect, that's cool, all right. So 50k taking place on saturday. 28k is going to be taking place on sunday, both 8 am start time, specific time. The distance for the 50k 31 miles with 6700 feet of vertical. There's like four big climbs in there.
Speaker 1:I like that, I like that it's not just like one big climb and then running down.
Speaker 1:It's more punchy, right. This seems to be the nature of this course, where, you know, on paper it might look pretty easy because 6,700 feet for a, you know, a sea level 50 K is pretty fast, um. But I've heard from quite a few people, including those that have, like, raced at headlands, which is similar uh territory there, um, it's very punchy like those. Those climbs will kick your ass. So that's going to be interesting, uh, to follow along and and who, I guess, who's been doing enough strength work in the off season, like a lot of these guys are fit, right, like your andy whackers the world, your eli's the world are super fit. Maybe some guys more so, like andy, are coming off the road right. So it's like what is that going to look like for x amount of vertical right, that that's going to be up and down, up and down so I think there's some storylines on who's going to get broken here and who's uh, you know who's going to have to learn some lessons.
Speaker 2:So also, who is the race legs? I mean a lot of these people. This is they, their. They're kicking off the season there, and some of these guys have multiple races under their belt already, so yeah, it, dude.
Speaker 1:It's interesting to me like we're so early in the season and I'm seeing dudes throwing down 100 mile weeks like it's not, and then like burning matches, like it's like they're burning down the house and I'm just like how the fuck are you gonna feel when you get to like august, september, man, like you're going to be clocked, um. So I think that skewed a lot of my or at least some of my selections, like who's going to be fresh, who's going to be tired, like I'm. I think one of the big conversations too is like eli coming off black canyon, you're going to have in the 28k. Like, um, darren thomas coming off black canyon. Like are these guys going to be tired? Like what's going to be in your legs? Obviously for a shorter race like this it should be fine. But like maybe you know, maybe you're already a little cooked going in, you know who knows? Um. So yeah, I'm seeing like crazy mileage dude.
Speaker 2:Like I've never seen stuff like this before, going in like this in march, oh my god I heard I heard you mention that on the pod, I think it was some recent one um, just like the weather and how nice it's been here on the front range that people are just getting after it early on. Yeah, we'll see. I don't know. I don't know if people are splitting their seasons up in two and planning to take a rest period at some point. I don't want to see. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Dude, you would hope, man or else there's going to be some implosions, oh man.
Speaker 1:So I got some questions and some analysis going in. So, looking at this course and analyzing this course to you because we're going to have a beautiful mix of mountain athlete and really solid athletes that can run very fast on the roads, right so guys that can mix it up in the flats and guys that can mix it up in the mountains Do you think this course is going to favor any particular type of athlete? Cause it's kind of that meeting place.
Speaker 2:I think it favors just the, the American ultra runner, for the most part, just the who's good at fast. Um smooth trails for the most part. I think, coming off the road, um, I think you can do some damage here, for sure Um mountain runners, it just it. Yeah, I would say, maybe favors more of the road guys, if I were to pick between the two. Um, just because of the turnover that you're going to need on these descents, um, I think this is a type of race where you win on the descents and maybe not the climbs as much. Um, though the climbs do matter, I don't, yeah, I just I don't think they're steep enough where it's gonna, yeah, benefit that like steep um mountain athlete maybe as much.
Speaker 1:Maybe you're remy larue or someone like that who sure who's fast on the roads. I mean very low 10k time, but also right, you're probably one of the best uphill runners in the world, more or less.
Speaker 2:Uh, yeah, you know, but but then again, with with you know the season that it is in north america now, most people probably are on the roads or are on the more front range type trails that are smooth and whatnot. So yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I think you're right, man. I think it's that weird intersection right when we're going to get to see who's really built up a ton of fitness going into this, and it can be applied. Who's really built up a ton of fitness going into this, and and it can be applied. Um, what do you, from a fitness perspective, like, what do you think takes to win the 50k or the, or the 20, what is it? 27k, 20, 28?
Speaker 2:sorry, like what was, is it gonna?
Speaker 1:be like a four sub 14 5k guy, like a 30 minute and lower 10k guy or gal like, like or like low 30 minute 10k gal.
Speaker 1:Like what do you? What do you think? Because, like I mean, for instance, like, let's take like some of these races like a circ series race, right, like your mason kopis of the world, those folks are the ones winning these races that are sub 14 minute 5k guys. Right, they're so fucking fast. Um, for a 50k it's obviously a bit of a longer race. I don't know what eli's stats are, or like even what david's are, but like what do you think level of shapeness these guys are in to be able to make this shit happen?
Speaker 2:I would personally put it in in marathon, maybe more terms. Um, I would say, up for the men's side, for the 50k, you probably have to be running. I mean, at least you have to be in sub 220 shape maybe, sub, maybe sub two, 15, potentially, um, so elite stuff, um. And then, as for the women, probably right around two, 35 to two, two, 30, um, which I think that's what kind of Tabor expects to be running at at Boston, and I know Mary Denholm has ran somewhere around there as well. Um, so yeah, um. And then, as for the 28k, and maybe put that more in terms of of a 10k, um, and yeah, you probably gotta be running right around like a sub 30, 30 minute 10k. I mean, it's as fast as I figured david I.
Speaker 1:I mean I can't remember what david said like he's, he's obviously a four something, miler, maybe even less, and like definitely I guess he's a sub 15 minute 5k guy. I mean definitely sub 15, maybe somewhere in that range yeah I mean, what did he do? He ran, I mean dude, on the treadmill alone. He did that like eight by mile workout.
Speaker 2:That was like 430s yeah, I mean we'll get into high 13s.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I think he's. He's, you know, and I'm sure eli can match that easily. He's like a jack of all trades, like has the biggest and like aerobic engine of anybody, probably in that field. Um, ryan becker is an interesting one. We'll get into all these, but like, and then the women's side, yeah, like keely henninger's in the race too super cool yeah, I'm excited keely.
Speaker 1:Keely's an interesting character too, so when we get, when we get to that, we'll uh talk about it one more. I think I got one more like pre-start question that I think it's it's interesting from this like, because there's no, there's no live stream this year, but there is a very stacked men and women yeah, men and women's 50k, a lot of heavy hitters. Is this an opportunity for someone to come in? That's like a random baller that comes in and like if he smashes these people and wins, he or she like does that create? Like does that punch you to superstardom at that point? Like, do we, do we like earn or lose potential? Like, are people like losing uh stock in this or winning, you know?
Speaker 2:I would say I would say nobody's probably losing stock just because it's early, earlier on in the season. Yeah, but I would say nobody's probably losing stock just because it's earlier on in the season. Yeah, but I would say, definitely gain stock for sure. I think just after last year and seeing what the podium looked like, I think there's a lot of people that want to come to this to try to make it in for themselves. I don't know if that's going to happen in the 50K. I'm not going to crap on anyone's dreams, but it just. It just seems like it's already like, yeah, freaking stacked. But as for, like the um, maybe the women's side or even for surely the women's 28k side, like someone definitely has a chance to to put a stamp um and, honestly, maybe even the 28k men's side.
Speaker 1:We'll see I like the opportunities these types of races create, just because, from a free trial perspective, like they have a huge platform so you know if you're getting on the podium for a free trial race, like they're going to blow your name up and it's going to be.
Speaker 1:It's an opportunity. The only reason I say this it's kind of like the Joe and Delione effect. Right, yeah, Like Joe and goes and went or not wins, but he gets on the podium of Cirque base and beach you some of the best names in the sport and then immediately you know, within, like he'll tell you he tells a story on the podcast when I release it, but, like, pretty quickly gets his name, you know, brought up by a lot of sponsors and it changes his life a little bit. And I think this is an opportunity that, like, if you can go beat a Dan Kurtz or go beat a David Roche or an Eli Hemming, like, uh, or a Tabor Hemming or a Mary Delhome, you have opportunities there to make a name for yourself and I think that's got to be motivating for a lot of folks. It's going to be hard to do. Obviously these are the best names in the sport, but yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2:There might be someone out there that has made this their A race and they've been working towards this since November. You never know, maybe they had a slow summer or something.
Speaker 1:I don. Maybe they had a slow summer or something. I don't know. It's a lot to see all right, let's talk.
Speaker 2:Let's talk some names. Um, just like depth in, like men, like what did you see in depth as far as men's contenders on the 50k side? 50k side, like we mentioned eli david, ryan becker, johnny luna, lima, remi larue um, I think there are a couple more in there that I missed, if you want to go ahead. And yeah, andrew bumbleow, preston kates, he's not racing bumble is not racing next yep yep, yep, he's out um pressing kate's yep, I forgot that one.
Speaker 1:You know preston, yeah, former nike guy like he had this very cathartic, like interesting post a few years ago when he like stepped away from the nike racing team because he I don't want to say because he wanted more money, but like he knew his worth. It was definitely someone that was motivated to, you know, like chase, like certain things in the sport. So it's very interesting guy, like very deep dude, so like that's someone I admire in the sport. And if I'm very interesting, yeah, so Elliot Carden, who trains, has been training a lot with Remy LaRue. They live in like a similar area in Canada, not too far from like the New Hampshire Vermont world. Um, kenyon Woodward, we're going to see what that looks like, just because this is a really fast 50 K and he's like a like a long trail ultra runner kind of guy. Um, going to see, like you know cause, like what happens when you get on a start line with Eli and Johnny, like they're going to play a hair back dude dude.
Speaker 1:It's like it's not an easy day at the office. Um, brett hordig is going to be out there to play. Um, ryan, neely, joshua park were two guys I wrote down as well, okay, um, and another guy, adam sojud. So like just the depth of big names and then a mixture of, like random ballers and up-and-coming dudes. Uh was pretty solid. Um, let's talk women. I think the women's this is this women uh group deserve, definitely deserves like a serious conversation here who stuck out? To you the most.
Speaker 2:I'm sure I could I mean, yeah, I'm just I'm really excited to see mary danholm and tabor got it.
Speaker 2:Um, those are kind of going to be the two. I think. Um, I mean keely, we know the talent she has. Her past results have shown it. Um, she could easily throw her hat in there as well. Um, but yeah, really the. I think the race is going to be mary versus tabor, but we'll see. I think it. I think it could be something special if they both can push each other hard, because mary, you know she's, I think she's really hungry after, you know, dnfing at canyons and probably still having a lot left in the tank, like I think it was still pretty early on in the race. Yeah, but I think she's this type of person who can push it very hard for a couple hours. Um, so I think a 50k for her is just like kind of the sweet spot. Um, and then tape for tabor as well, just having training for a, for a road marathon. Um, she's gonna have the legs for it, it's.
Speaker 1:We'll see if she found her trail legs, um, yeah, yeah and I think, like tabor, I don't know when we do picks, like there's a lot to it, but like tabor knows the course, like, like I said, 28k that's the thing too like demolished people.
Speaker 1:Last year, like made a statement, um, and then figure what, tabor got injured then and went on, still get on the podium of broken arrow and still finished top five at man with trail fatso's, which is a golden trail series race. So you're talking like, yeah, one of the one of the best in the world, whereas, like it's kind of this dichotomy too where taber is this sub ultra athlete you know who has just like wheels for days, but like mary dull home is like a um, you know one leadville last year but also has got wheels because, you know, goes and gets second at jfk to like almost a nearly unbeatable rachel drake, you know, and it was a pretty like I wouldn't say a super close race, but like close enough, like seconds, pretty freaking solid there. And then keely, dude, keely in the mix. Like keely just walked away from her ultra contract and you know it's kind of this reborn new athlete in a lot of ways, like with, you know, without the pressure to have to perform or, you know, fulfill contract, uh, you know things. So it's like what does Keeley do? She's just here for fun now. And it's like, okay, this is Nothing to lose? Yeah, nothing to lose when you're playing with house money. And Keeley's a monster dude. I watched her the year I think Rose raced Gorge Waterfall. It was like right when Leah Yingling started making her name because I think Leah got second that year. And Leah Yingling started making her name because I think Leah got second that year and I just watched Keely take it to everybody in that field and it was so interesting and so cool to follow along. So I'm a big Keely fan. I'm excited to see Some other names. I wrote down Lindsay Allison, who just recently signed with Ultra. She resides in Telluride, friend of the pod as well. We're going to have her on soon, oh cool.
Speaker 1:Zuzana trenkova um, this name popped out to me in research talk took the top. What did she get? Top 35 last year at headlands at the golden trail race, which is pretty solid. Um, you're talking, you know world-class contenders there. And then she ran 42nd at occ. It was either in 23 or 24, I can't remember, and she's a former pro triathlete.
Speaker 1:Um, she's pretty solid, like any race in the bay area. She's from san francisco, so any race that she enters she generally wins, like a lot of the, a lot of her ultra sign up is like local stuff and she just dominates people, um, so it's going to be interesting to see her against like world-class competition, like can she perform? Um, because you know, if you want, for instance, like it's probably going to be taber and mary, but if you want to knock off like someone like a lindsey or akili, like you're going to have to work your ass off, like it's not going to be easy. Um, and then also abigail swift was another one um, that I've written down as well. So there's some serious contenders both in the men's and women's side of the 50k. So, yeah, all right, let's dive into pics. You want to do picks? Let's do it.
Speaker 2:Yep, let's do it. 50k women.
Speaker 1:Let's go women first. Let's see who's the one.
Speaker 2:Okay, I have Mary Denholm taking the dub.
Speaker 1:Do you really what I do? I do, oh, I like it, I like it, I do, and then I have Tabor within 30 seconds.
Speaker 2:I mean, I think it's honestly going to come down to a kick at the end, though, with those two, which would be amazing, which I hope if there is someone filming out there, like if, like, dylan's out there with free trail or someone like that, someone please strap a camera to yourself and like get some, like get some sweet footage, cause I think that could be a pretty cool video. Um, and then I have Keely in third um, again just coming off the first trail race of the year. We'll have to see um Lindsay Allison in fourth and local Lucy Anders in fifth. So we'll see, but I think fourth and fifth, maybe even third, is kind of just up for grabs.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know, lindsay Allison shocked me before in the past, cause like she's come out and I think she's won or placed very high in the quad dipsy race. Um, I believe she's a Stanford alum, so she's got some connection, like relative connection, to the area. Um, the only question that I've always had is like okay, so you can build giant fitness in the off season Like they live in Telluride, right? So it's like you're. If you run in, it's hard to run. You're either on the treadmill or you're on snowy roads or you're getting a ton of fitness from skiing.
Speaker 1:I don't know, I think she has an opportunity to compete for third place. Lindsay, I wouldn't be surprised, and I could see her definitely getting in there. I mean, it seems like she's had some great finishes at Broken Arrow in the past. I think she's a former winner of the um the uh. What is the iron, not the iron crown challenge? What is what's the broken arrow? Triple crown, triple crown. Thank you, yep, um, yeah, she's won that in the past.
Speaker 2:Like she's very solid she won lake sonoma 52, which is like those trails are very similar to these, yeah so.
Speaker 1:so she might have just like natural talent to be able to like dude. It's like interesting like some, like some people are really good like just grinding uphill and then running as hard as they can down, and then some people just get broken, going up and down, up and down, up and down, like your body, some people's like muscular dexterity can't take it. So she seems like one of those people that can definitely take it. So I would agree. So I've got Tabern first, the. So I've got Tabern first. The only reason is is because, like I've been really paying attention to Mary Delhom's Denholm it's Denhomes, I'm sorry, denholm Strava and like so there's a lot of things that end up play here. Right, she lives in Colorado. She was just for, I think, a week and a half, almost two weeks they were over in Italy for the craft. They're running big mileage at craft. So she's putting in a ton of mileage. You're like last week I think she ran like 106 miles with like 18,000 feet of vert, which is a monster fucking week. I don't know. Like that's a lot of international travel. And then to come back and then have to settle back into Colorado and then travel back out like West, then, like you know, it's a good opportunity to get the sniffles. It's a good opportunity then, like you know, it's a good opportunity to get the sniffles. It's a good opportunity maybe get a little sick.
Speaker 1:You you're out of your flow. You haven't been doing as many workouts, maybe because, like you know, you know how it works, like big mileage and stuff like that. Sure, but like you know what gets your blood volume going. Like you got to do some like a throw in some. You know some workouts here and there which I didn't really see as much on the strava. Uh, maybe she hides them, but but then if she's hiding them, dude, what are we doing in here? Like 130 mile weekly, jesus Christ. So that gives me pause. I'm interested in that.
Speaker 1:But Tabor, you know a lot of road miles, a lot of time on the track, like I'm sure that engine, as we all saw from her half marathon, and like, dude, tabor was ballsy enough to go run the USATF um half marathon race. Like you got to be so Uber confident to put yourself in that position and to see what happens. Um, yeah, I just think Tabor, I mentally, physically, I think Tabor's got all the tools to be like the like at one point in time, hopefully the best in the world Like. I'm a huge fan of her, so as you are too. Um, yeah, I think taper gets the win. This is early season, so maybe the course beats her up because it is a 50k, um, but I think she takes it.
Speaker 1:I do have mary denholm in second. Um, like I said that, I'm just curious to see, like, how much that, like that's a lot, of a lot of volume. What does that do? Um, and then the only person that I have in third, the only person that I could see that actually tapered for this race, uh, or is tapering is zuzana tronkova. Um, I do have her going to the third 141 miles three weeks ago does have about half her volume, maybe three quarters of her volume, on the bike and then a good chunk of her volume running as well. Um, and then tapered it down to 105 miles last week with majority of it on the bike, with some runs. I'm really curious to see. Like, that's a beautiful science experiment. I cannot wait to see what happens there. So that's, I'd say it's my top three.
Speaker 1:I think Lindsay Allison can go knock off any of these women, maybe, except for Tabor. Like, I think there's levels and I think she has a little bit of work to do to get to that like, maybe mary mary denholm level because, like, like mary is a leadville champion and like that's a very hard level to achieve, hard, very hard thing to get to. Um, and I think that brings with it a lot of confidence. So until you win something like that, maybe you don't have as much like you're so confident, but like, maybe not that level of confidence and we'll. We'll go into where I'm going with that when we get to Dave.
Speaker 2:And then one thing I wanted to add quick regarding Tabor too. She was signed up for the 28 K and the 50 K Okay.
Speaker 2:And I think it was just a matter of like what the competition was going to be like would be my guess. And she's her and Eli are the type of people that they fall the competition. They want to race the best of the best. So I guess one thing I could add with Tabor is like I think she could rise to the occasion with the with this field and and then take it. I mean, it's maybe that's all she needed. You saw it, occ, how, how well she raced that first. You know half three quarters the race, racing with the best in the world. Like that.
Speaker 1:When you put her in those situations, she she's damn good yeah, no, I agree, I agree I'm joey's excited to call a tabor hemming race you know, that's fine uh, dude, I remember I think I was texting you because like it was right when, like it was on the live stream and like it was kind of public watching tabor drop out of occ. Yeah, it was like on the live stream and then she just kind of stopped there off to the side. I don't know if she was with, like, if it was like what, I think it might have been a family member, okay her dad maybe I think so.
Speaker 1:yeah, and it was. It was very emotional, it was very it was a bummer to see that. But like, yeah, dude, like I said, she's got all the tools and then, like injured, goes and like gets on the podium a broken arrow, like how sick is that? All right, let's talk, man. Um, I do, I have a hemming, actually, I'll let you, I'll let you, okay, sure.
Speaker 2:All right, my top five I got Eli, eli Winnett, yeah, david right behind him, ryan Becker third, johnny Lunalima fourth and then Remy LaRue in fifth.
Speaker 1:Okay, I think that's. Yeah, that's pretty damn similar. I also have Eli in first. I have a Heming sweep Dude. I just think Eli is probably. I've never asked him this, but one day I will. I'm so curious to see the way that dude reviews competition. I have to be honest, he's the nicest human and super laid-back dude. But I have to be honest, I would imagine to compete against the best in the world you have to have an enormous appetite for competition and I wonder what he's.
Speaker 1:Maybe he's not thinking about it at all, but David Roche has really been calling a shot right. I'm interested to see what happens here. I think you're going to run into a brick wall when you run into somebody like Eli. I just don't think like you. Just you don't like David Sinclair. Barely beat him Like, unless Eli and David Sinclair is like one again. I can't believe.
Speaker 1:I throw this around Like I don't use this lightly, but like David Sinclair is one of the best in the world. When you raise someone like an Eli Hemming, like it's not exactly an easy day out and I think he took David to probably another level and look at what David achieved with that. So, yeah, I don't, I just don't. I respect David. I like David. He's really been calling the shots lately. I think it's either going to end up like I don't know, it's like hard to approach this sport, this race, mentally right For someone like David. It's like okay, am I racing this? Am I racing this to make a point, because I've called so many shots that I feel like I have to win this race. Or can I silence my ego and focus on okay, I've got in a few weeks Gorge Waterfall which is a selection race.
Speaker 2:He's doing Gorge.
Speaker 2:He's doing the 100k right and that's an opportunity, because like this, this, the depth is deep there, but like it's also an opportunity for him to go win and make a statement um I think the best thing that could happen to him in this race is taking second to eli, just uh, I don't know, maybe humble him a little bit and be like okay, like I have still have a lot of work to do, like it's not done yet, like you don't win western states in in march, you know you don't. So I don't know, we'll see, I'll see. But yeah, like you were saying, two different kind of I feel like approaches, like you say, like eli a lot more calm going into it doesn't isn't going to be the one boasting about anything like that, whereas david has been more of that lately.
Speaker 1:So it's just two, two different, different people going at it, and I know like you gotta remember too, like there's like a coaching dynamic here, like he eli used to be coached by david, so like I'm sure they have a like an amazing relationship there, but it's also like that's a scalp that I'd want on my wall, dude no offense but like that's a scalp, like if I was eli, I'm like like I think it would be mean more to me to beat, beat David than to win the damn race, like I don't know, just because of the way like David's been calling, calling a shot, and if you do that like, sometimes you make yourself a target.
Speaker 1:So I don't know, like, and this, I hope David listens to this because I hope, you know, we get some shade and he'd like to fire under him as well. But it's like one of those things where we'll see what happens. Like I and I mean no shade to david. I love david, he's an amazingly inspiring person and like seeing, I mean, dude, you, you ran on some of those trails that he runs on in boulder, like some of the stuff that he's able to do there. Like the guy's a freak. So, yeah, he's been putting in the work and he's very public about the work that he puts in. So let's see what happens. Um, yeah, I don't know. I just feel like it's that almost like that do or die, like there is pressure to win now because, like you've been, you know, you've been hyping yourself.
Speaker 1:So in third place, dude, I I'm like very mixed. So my third is is a question mark. It's I literally wrote down. It's johnny luna lima or remy larue. Okay, like I think johnny has done enough this year to progress, and like just getting to spend time with him on the podcast and chat with him Like you're talking about one of the most dialed, like control, every variable humans that I've ever met in my life, like very serious Um, and I respect that a lot. Very interesting guy, very interesting conversation, um, and it seems like just by following a Strava, following some of his training, like he's quiet, he's not really active on social media, he's just really active on social media.
Speaker 1:He's just he's a, he's like a, he's like a what's not a ninja, he's like a assassin, like just quiet and just working on his craft right like until he's ready to go strike and you know just by talking to him too, he's very serious about wanting to go compete at broken arrow and showing that he belongs. Um, this is a good tune-up for that. This is an early season mixer to kind of see where you're at against, you know, some stout competition. So I could definitely see Johnny on trails that I'm very familiar with, and it's not easy training.
Speaker 2:Um, so he's definitely coming into this very, very fit. Um, it's just the the 50 K is. It's an odd distance. I know he's raced a few 50 Ks um here and there Um, but it's a tough one to get right and we'll have to see. I don't know if uh. And same with remy too. I don't know how much experience he has in in 50ks. It looks like he's maybe ran a handful so this is what's interesting to me.
Speaker 1:This is where, like, the dichotomy comes in like remy started off in ultra, like had some great finishes at like jfk, and like the guy lives at sea level. He's, he's a canadian, um, lives, lives really close to the Vermont and New Hampshire border. He races a lot in the States more Northeast stuff, dude. The way he's competed at Golden Trail I got to say he's one of the best uphillers there is. He's phenomenal. He's raced Remy Bonet, alex Ricard. He beat Dan Kurtz last year, uh, at the canadian mountain running champs. Uh, they kind of traded, I think it was one won the vertical and the other one won the up down. But like they kind of. Like remy's strength is definitely in the ups. This race has a good amount of climbing but it's not going to be won on the climbs, it's going to be lost on the climbs. Like, if, if, remy can put himself in a good position there. I mean, he's not like a slouch running downhill, like he's still world class and um, you know, his stuff looks really good, dude. Like his training, like 187 miles last week but 114 of that was on the bike. Uh, 73 of that was running like on on dirt roads and like some techie trails. Um, like his trails are still pretty iced over, so stuff will start mounting out soon.
Speaker 1:Trains a lot with Elliot Carden and Elliot just got top 10 at black Canyon, so figures will show you like that level, that fitness level. Like you know, he kind of seems like he's want to be like too candid, but like he's definitely. I think he's better than Elliot in my opinion. Just sign with brooks, so he's got. He's got a burning, burning desire to compete. Um, yeah, I wouldn't be surprised I could see him up there as well. He's had. It seems like he was pretty candid on strava about some like a little achilles niggle that he had going on. Um, but that can be you know what dude that, maybe that goes away in taper, you know sure so.
Speaker 2:So yeah, so honestly I'm gonna go with. I kind of based off what you're saying, I think it's johnny's downhill versus remy's uphill for third place, I think I like that, I like that and like don't ever count out ryan becker dude like ryan
Speaker 1:becker is capable in any given day to beat any of these guys. Like that's a dude that doesn't have to have a ton of volume, doesn't have to have a ton of mileage to get super fit and like go and crush people. Um, like last quiet good year last year yeah, dude was awesome, like he had a great. He took second to michelino at the rut 50k, which I think it was kind of understated because, like you know, he raced him pretty close for a good chunk of the race and then, michelino got away from him, but like ryan's solid dude, I could see ryan to me.
Speaker 1:It upsets me because I think ryan is like such an understated really good dude like um, like should be sponsored, should be with a brand and should be doing all these things. Um, because his talent level is just so high. Um, and like as consecutively dude always in the top, like any vk in the country he's always in the top five. Yeah, like the dude just has some crazy fitness. So who else? Elliot Cardin as well. Like I said, trained with he trains with Remy a lot.
Speaker 1:Canyon Woodward I'm very I don't know. I kind of want to see what that looks like. Unfortunately, for Brett Hornig, I don't know what's going to see what happens. I don't think Brett's going to see what happens. Like, I don't think Brett's going to have an easy day at the office with these guys, you know. But yeah, we'll see what happens. So yeah, that's what I got for the 50K. I think there's some good stuff here. I did want to. I think we got into David, which was important. I think the okay. One more question that I have, cause I don't want to harp too much on David, but remember I was talking about earlier with stock, stock, right, if david loses to eli which could be a really good thing for him because it kind of resets things, right, what does that? What does that do for his stock then? You know, does that kind of diminish? Like you know, we all, everybody's got their, their horses going in the race, the betting right favorites for western states and worlds. Like, what does that do for his stock?
Speaker 2:I think it depends, like if eli does what he did last year and just dominate, um, that might hurt it a little bit, but if he's right on, if he's right behind eli, I mean I think I don't think it's gonna hurt your stock. It might you say, wow, you're up there with one of the best 50 k's in the world. Right like you could, you could, you could turn it into that. You know it's.
Speaker 1:It's tough to say yeah, it's gonna be interesting. I mean, like, with these races, styles make matchups and it's just like one of those ones where, like stylistically, like it's anybody's race, like it's not a mountain race, so it's it's you know, you're really thrown to the dice and like who's the fittest human going into this and that's the person that you know that can put it all together. So, all right, let's talk 28k. I think there was some really good conversation about the 28 Ks wall. I'll let you hop into that and take it away with what you think.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sure, yeah, the men's side is that top five is stout, let me tell you I mean Andy Wacker coming in after what he's been doing. We were chit-chatting before about his Strava and he just recently set the CR on Lion's Lair, epstein, one that a lot of people frequent and a lot of athletes that come through Boulder do and give a good push on. It's a really good gauge of fitness. I just did it recently. I mean it's already being a close to Andy's. He was like 18.25, which is ridiculous. And then he just took the Gold Hill Ascent CR from David by like two plus minutes on a five by 10 minute workout with one minute rest. Like that is absurd. And Gold Hill, I mean that's the type of glens you're going to see at this race. It's smooth and not crazy, crazy steep. His fitness seems like it's really there. I think he did a road race recently. I don't know if you how did he?
Speaker 2:do there did he win that uh, what did he do?
Speaker 1:I don't know. He didn't post. I'm gonna actually on his Instagram now as we're looking okay, double check your post on it. Um what is this?
Speaker 2:it might be on the trail.
Speaker 1:Okay, march 10th gate river run eighth overall. Third american um ran a 15k p, listen, it's 15k pb 4352, that dude is so fit um 5k and 1355. Like are you kidding me? Like andy's, like yeah, for a 36 year old dude. You know people might think like oh, andy's old, no, no, no, no, no, no, like no, no, no, well, dude, I mean like all right. So he just, he was pretty candid and just talked about his, the Gold Hill FKT that him and Kate did so big shout out to Kate Michael, they pulled each other along on this. But, dude, andy just went down five workouts one week. So five workouts in a week. You and I both know how fucking hard that is Okay, that is okay. March 10th through 16th tuesday am 8 by 1k, 5 by 90, second with kade pm 20 by 4, 20 by 400, dude, my normal like 400 workouts like all I could absorb is like 12 from dead.
Speaker 1:Like 20 in an afternoon is crazy. And then thursday am, mile mile 2 by 800, 4 by 400, 2k and 550, pm Lion's Lair Ascent record he did that on a double, on a double. And then Sunday AM All right, sunday, that's Thursday. And then Sunday AM, gold Hill FKT record climb with Cade PM easy six miles with Cade, okay. So dude.
Speaker 2:If he absorbs this, I don't know if anybody could beat him Truly. There's just no way.
Speaker 1:Are we getting the I can't remember if it was 21 or 22 when he won the broken arrow. I think it was the broken arrow 23K. Like we could be getting vintage Andy back. You know he's hungry, he is hungry. Oh for sure. I mean, dude, like after what happened with Solomon and everything, I'm sure that he, you know he's hungry, he is hungry, oh for sure, I mean, dude, like after what happened with Solomon and everything, I'm sure that he. You know, regardless of like sponsor stuff, like I'm sure he's like. You know the old Joe quote right, what does Joe say? Sometimes you got to look yourself in the mirror and prove the man in the mirror wrong. And I think Andy's doing just exactly that. Uh, yeah, and he looks great. Um, dude, I mean the stack, it's stacked. Joan de Leon, we'll get into.
Speaker 1:Joan, he's a wild card and a wild boy. Dan Kurtz, obviously. Dan Kurtz is probably the best prospect to ever come into our sport. Besides Christian Allen and maybe a few others, dan is literally world-class. You've got Darren Thomas as well, one of the best uphill runners ever in the sport. Patio leary, who's very consistent. Mr consistent has had great finishes at this race.
Speaker 1:Uh, ben robinson, who's kind of a throwback. He's a northeast guy. Um, I did see him, yeah, and he used to run for hoka. Uh, it's funny dude, his instagram actually, and I'm curious about this, he's one of the few people that I've ever seen. Like he was pretty candid about like I keep saying candid a lot on this podcast, but he was very open. Like he put like former hoka athlete in his instagram bio and I was like that's interesting. I've never seen anybody do that or like former whatever athlete in the bio. So I don't know if he's built, trying to build a resume a little bit or what's going on there but, um, and there's some other dude, brody barkhan um, who kind of shouted out to me.
Speaker 1:So that's the men's side. Um, there's some interesting things with dan, like I had dan on the podcast the other day, soon to be released, oh sweet, oh, dude, I love dan dan's it like yeah, he's speaking my language he's a good dude. He's a good dude, interesting guy. He's in boulder right now oh cool he's headed.
Speaker 1:I think he's actually in the, probably right now driving out to, because he drove out from vermont. He like kitted the van out that he has and is on his way out and he's was working off a broken toe injury that he had back in um, I think when he raced at chiang mai it was uh like a like the utmb race that I think was a 50k he like kicked, uh kicked, a rock. I think it broke his toe.
Speaker 1:Um yeah, so interesting. Um, yeah, I don't know it's gonna be interesting, I don't know. I think, dan, even like on a down, you know like coming off injury is still like super dangerous and probably like gonna win. But I don't know um female contenders who stuck out to you on the Seems like she doesn't have a ton of competition at this one.
Speaker 2:She seems to be the only like sponsored quote unquote, like professional athlete, I believe. Maybe I'm wrong there. And then there's some locals too. Sylvie Abel she won Quad Dipsy this past year and Mammoth 50K, so I think she's kind of an up and comer and if she can take out Rudy she has a very good chance of getting picked up by someone, I think. But other than that, I mean Amy Sturgill popped out at me. She's had some good results. Lauren Daniels, which is Matt Daniels' wife Yep, she took ninth year last year.
Speaker 1:She was my real estate agent when we first moved to Colorado. Oh, very cool, lauren's good people. She was my real estate agent when we first moved to Colorado.
Speaker 2:Oh, very cool. Shout out to.
Speaker 1:Lauren, lauren's good people.
Speaker 2:But, yeah, a lot of locals that I have a chance to really throw their name in the hat there. So, yeah, not a ton.
Speaker 1:I had the same thing, ruby. Obviously we've talked to Ruby, we've had her on the pod before Ruby's interesting on Strava. She's a little cryptic.
Speaker 1:She posts a lot of stuff but also doesn't post a lot of stuff. So it's hard for me to get it get a gauge on her miles. Like she doesn't post a lot of her skiing even though she skis a ton, um, and like she does post some of the running. I know she went down recently to run um, what is that place? I even wrote it down auburn, that's it. She was was gone down to Auburn a few times to run. Strava is like 50 plus mile weeks with skiing. I would imagine it's probably more than that. Maybe there's like 30 miles hidden or something that's not in there.
Speaker 1:I have Sylvie Abel as well. Sylvie, first at the Mammoth 50K in 24. Amy Sturgill, second at the San Juan Solstice in 24. This Amy Sturgill, second at the San Juan Solstice in 24. This other girl, katie D'Ambrosio, second at Kodiak I think it was at Kodiak 100K. And then Lauren Daniels, of course, who ran into the top 10 in 2024. And Lauren gets out and runs dude, she's pretty solid. She's always been more of a road athlete. She's a former Olympic trials qualifier. Yeah, um, yeah, I know matt kind of overshadows everything because he's like the you know the dude, but like lauren, lauren's a pretty styled athlete, um, so yeah, I don't know. That's kind of what I got there. Let's go. Let's go to picks, for let's start with women picks. I think that's easier all right, cool yeah.
Speaker 2:Um, I got ruby lindquist taking it, second Sylvie Abel, third Amy Sturgill, fourth Lauren Daniels and fifth, local Alexandra Skiketti. Okay, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm similar dude. I got Ruby in first. I think it's Ruby's race to lose. I think she's enormously fit and is probably going to do a lot this year. Second is Sylvie Abel and third, uh, amy sturgill. I think that's, that's, that's probably a good line there on the same page. Yeah, all right, let's talk, men. What do you got? What do you got? Because this is, this is interesting, dude, I don't know, like this is a dice roll here I'm gonna go andy wacker taking the dub.
Speaker 2:Okay, dan kurtz, right behind him darren thomas third, johan de leon fourth, and then local patty o'leary and fifth okay, I think.
Speaker 1:I think, yeah, that's, that's pretty. I'm like, yeah, yeah, I'm kind of a mixture of that, I do sorry third, is it?
Speaker 2:third is interchangeable. I would say. I mean, johan, can you know show up. I don't know, has he raced this year? I mean, you just talked to him, has he done anything or no?
Speaker 1:so dude joan's uh is a wild card dude, like wild boy, wild card. Like. I was really impressed by how like we talked a lot about competition and like manifesting and like how you view certain things and he's he's kind of a spiritual dude with that, like just an interesting cat. Also, I have to say, one of the nicest humans I have ever met. Like you want to talk about. Like when I ask him, like how you doing dude?
Speaker 1:and he's like genuinely curious how like I'm doing, like he wants to, like he was like asking me questions on the pot, like I was like yeah, he's like a really like left me with an impression that I was like yo, I really like this kid, like this kid's cool um, and he was everything like like kade kind of like hyped him up to me and like he was everything kade kind of said he would be, which is cool um, yeah, I have to be honest with you, dude, a lot of time he hasn't really been posting anything on strava and he noticed that does that on purpose he's like I don't like to talk about myself, I just want to go there and show up and compete events the best in the world.
Speaker 1:I would not be surprised. I wouldn't be surprised if he wins the race. Like both guys dan has weaknesses and andy has weaknesses 100 and if you get, like you remember, a lot of this type of race we're early in the season here this race doesn't really matter in the long like, I don't think I don't think people care as much. Like this isn't the golden trail series, this isn't like. This is a like kind of play around with competition and see, like, where I'm at fitness wise and then make adjustments from there. Like, if I'm, you don't want to be overly fit right, like for people like dan. I'm sure what dan's thinking is like I need to be fit and ready for soon to be, because that's where my expectation is to go, make a world's team, um, or like a broken arrow or something like that, whereas, whereas, like Andy's expectation is probably the same way, but, like Andy might be playing a little bit more with house money because, like Andy, no longer has to please a sponsor, he just has to go race for Andy and whatever his goals are, he'll achieve them.
Speaker 1:Joanne now is with Satisfy and he was pretty candid about damn it. I said it again, candid. Anyway, he was pretty open about like Satisfy doesn't really grade you on or care as much about performance. They're very open. As a sponsor. It's a little bit different. Obviously he's an incredibly world-talently athlete, but also without pressure maybe he's putting the pressure on himself. So when we're talking about mental space here, like there's no pressure from a sponsor to go perform, so he's another one playing with house money a little bit, whereas like it's this dichotomy is interesting man like there's a lot to this, I still have dan winning.
Speaker 1:I think dan takes the win, I think, out of the three gentlemen that will compete for the win, or four gentlemen with Darren in there in the mix, there, I think Dan is just really fucking good, like one of the best, like like from Iowa State, one of the most highly talented, highly touted dudes to ever enter our sport, and as far as just like pure talent goes, you know there's a reason. Brooks gave him a contract like that, you know, like right pretty early into his search for that, and I think it's 100% deserved Like I'm a gigantic fan of his. So, yeah, I think Dan goes and takes the win. I don't even think it's that hard for him. I think he can do it Even with, like maybe a semi, whatever broken toe, who cares?
Speaker 1:I have Joan in. Second, I have Joan and second I have Andy. And third, I worry that Andy left his race on gold Hill Good point, that's a good one, curious to see. Or Sanitas, like maybe, maybe it's like. Okay, I'm really fit and I'm going to show that I think Andy's still on the podium. Andy could very well go beat both of these guys.
Speaker 2:And Darren wouldn't be surprised.
Speaker 1:He's beaten darren a few times now um oh, and he could be in the same situation as david. They just left it all in training a little bit. You know it's, yeah. Yeah, you know we do. We've had a lot of good weather on the front range, man, and it's been deadly to go like burn matches. You know, like I don't know. You gotta remember to like gold hill uphill miles. You don't really get as cooked from that, you still gotta run down. But like it's not. But like that effort, dude, to run 102. That's faster than any person has ever run.
Speaker 1:That that's a huge effort to recover from that, like I and he's also superhuman, so I don't know, yeah, uh, whereas dan's like been kind of quiet, like dan might be not as fit as he was maybe a few months ago, like going into shanghai, but like it's still the winter and like maybe you race your way into fitness, like it's not necessarily super fast, that wins you this race. It could be like muscular dexterity and stuff. Dan's also really good at downhill. That's like kind of his jam, so you can win the race on downhills and if you're good you can yeah, yeah, so I don't know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're doing three-dimensional chess here. There's a lot, there's a lot going into this, so all right. And then on the women did we talk about the women already, or yeah?
Speaker 2:uh, yeah, yeah sorry um you're good, you're on like third.
Speaker 1:Now third, third you're third pick, I do there, and then I think darren thomas beats patty.
Speaker 1:Okay, and I think patty takes fourth, I see that you know, maybe ben robinson sneaks in there I think that's the only other name and that brody guy sure like kind of stuck out. Um, has what's darren been up to? Darren, I see, this is the question mark for me with darren is like, just finished black canyon a month and a week ago. Okay, is he tired? I mean, this is a 17 and a half mile race, it's not that far, um, but you got it, you're gonna have to. I mean, you're talking like five minute grade adjusted pace for this race. So yeah, yeah, like you gotta, you gotta be ready to turn over um, because what's the time?
Speaker 2:what's what won it last year? One, I'll tell you right now. I'm pretty sure it was, I'm sure it was some. Uh, oh sorry, I didn't even read the 28 so nick hendel won it 154, 48, that record okay, yeah, oh, yeah, oh yeah, yeah, it's gonna be a low one because tabor got the course record.
Speaker 1:Tabor didn't run that far behind nick like tabor ran 209, 32, so yeah, I think tabor just had like a really, really good day. Um, and then on the 50k, the record that eli put up last year was 338, 33, which is so fast.
Speaker 2:Oh my god, 335 this year. It sounds like condition. So conditions. Last year I know there was a little sloppy, um, it sounds like it's dry as bone there and uh, yeah, so different time of year though I know last year it was earlier. I want to say it was earlier, was it? Or uh, yeah, I can remember. Yeah, yeah, it was earlier. I want to say it was earlier, was it? Or yeah, I can remember.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah it was right around the time I had dream on the podcast was right. When she got back about a year ago, yeah, right, so yeah, interesting, so that might play into playing.
Speaker 2:Do playing to it a little bit.
Speaker 1:Be in better conditions, so we will see it's gonna be fun to follow along, man, I'm happy we've got some high octane trail racing this early in the season. It feels like within the next couple months we're also going to have We'll be talking all about Skyrunner series, and then Golden Trail will start in May or April. April, does it start next month? Holy shit, a few weeks A few weeks.
Speaker 2:Yep, skyrunning starts this week, this weekend. Correct few weeks ago. Scott, scott running starts this week, this weekend. Yep, saturday yeah.
Speaker 1:It's not to purposely cover the race. This is mostly Europeans. Like the only one over, I think is going to be Morgan Elliott.
Speaker 2:I think that's all I saw.
Speaker 1:Yeah, A lot of the name a lot of Spanish guys yeah. Yeah, and then all right, really quick Cause Ke or next weekend. Yep Guianti's this weekend, mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:All right, who's winning? Dude? Who you got? Oh, I don't think anyone's beating Jim Dude.
Speaker 1:I think Jim, I think Jim, like, probably has an ax to grind with both of those gentlemen.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:One that beat him at UTMB and another one that's beaten him at UTMB.
Speaker 2:Yep, yep, no UTMB. And another one that's beaten him at UTMB, I think for the longest time. Killian was above Jim in that 100 miles. How long is this race?
Speaker 1:70 something K or something like that. It's like 62 miles or something like that. I thought it's 100 K.
Speaker 2:I thought I saw 70 or something. It might be close to 100. Maybe that's 70 miles, I don't know. I thought I saw like 70 or something. It might be close to a hundred, maybe that's 70 miles, I don't know. For the longest time I would, I I had always put Killian above, above Jim, but I think now I think Jim is making that pass and maybe that's due to age, I don't know. And just like Jim has all the freedom in the world, doesn't have a family, doesn't have any life stresses or anything like that, um, where killian's got a lot going on right now and we don't even know if he's gonna necessarily be there, um, but I think this is jim's uh race to lose, that's true.
Speaker 1:The question is would killian go if he didn't think he would win? That's the question. The ultimate competitor, dude killing.
Speaker 2:Well, yes, but I think, but I think it's for a bigger goal. I think it's to get into western states so I mean, if he takes second, he's getting a golden ticket. Do you know how many it goes down to?
Speaker 1:for I think it's is it two, I think it's well, I think it's two tickets goes rolled down to five. Rolls down to five, okay, and jim's obviously already in. Okay, jim's already in and it's gonna be really interesting if what's that. What's that other guy's name that won western, that one? You see, last year, yeah, yeah he reminds me of jim dude like this oh yeah, skinny like.
Speaker 1:He looks just like him like skinny likey dude, like you could look double to do a double look and like you would think that's jim that just ran past you. Yeah, I, I don't know. I think with jim he's also really friends with vincent, um, and vincent, as we, you know, we know just signed a big deal with hoka. Like he's on the team now.
Speaker 2:I don't know, like I think he's gonna hang on to jim, though I really think he's gonna put. I think jim's gonna have that's what he's gonna fight on his hands.
Speaker 1:Yeah with utmb, yeah, yeah whereas and killian, you know, killian's really strong on the uphill and just like not as strong on the down, so, whereas jim is just like a dental freak. So, yeah, I don't know, dude, I also think Jim, he's so complete in his game, everything about him. Dan, actually, when I had him on the podcast, he ran with Jim a little bit this summer, and I think it was after UTMB, because UTMB was August, so he must have ran with him in September and just like Jim talking about gear, like just getting more aerobically fit, and like he was just telling me, like the way jim is in his life, like the area, like the position he's in at now in his career, is just a very unique one. Whereas, like you said, dude, uh, killian's got a kid, like kid that might have just been born or is in the process of being born, like, I think that third one, yeah, yeah third yeah, third child.
Speaker 1:And then, dude, he's running the company. Like I know he's not the CEO of the company, but there's still outside stresses with doing that stuff, especially because, like you know, there's been a lot of discussion. Like is normal doing as good in America? Like Mike, you know, mike Ambrose just departed to go to NAC. I'm not going to speak for any of the situation, because not that I know anything. I just like to connect dots here. Ali Ostrander left, like that, and now it's like you don't really have any American athletes now. That's it.
Speaker 1:So it's like, are they exiting the American market. So maybe the reason Killian wants to get into Western States, maybe that's an opportunity there. It's a marketing opportunity to go to Western.
Speaker 2:States, yeah, yeah. I don't know, there's something there one question I had about killian when is the last time he's ran a race this long? I feel like he's been doing the short stuff so much more these past, like yeah, was it hard rock.
Speaker 1:There isn't all was the last race he like, like big race. He ran.
Speaker 2:So right, how do I'm just thinking of like, ultra, ultras, like was it freaking hard? Yeah, so I don't know.
Speaker 1:I mean it's killing, he's a freak so yeah, he's one of the probably one of the best people the sport has ever seen, if not the best.
Speaker 2:So and is he ever? Has he ever done that right? I don't know if he's ever done that race. Maybe he has in the past.
Speaker 1:No, okay yeah, so it's dirt road fitness. He's also in norway coming off. A winter dude like you can only get so fit off a treadmill whereas, like jim does, has had flagstaff fire roads all day.
Speaker 2:So yeah, it sounded like the snow, at least what I've heard. The snow is pretty. Uh, I heard on the john elvin podcast um, shout out that pod. You put me onto that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, they were talking about how they've been. They've been wanting to ski so much but they really haven't been able to a ton sounds. It sounds like the ski conditions are horrible, so maybe trails have been decent. I don't know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, see so at least on roads or something you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yep, yep, wow, that's interesting dude. Yeah, yeah, it's going to be. I mean, like I hope you know, and I think it's it's a good opportunity for an early season to see, like, all right, where am I at with my fitness? Because, like western states is going to be probably the hardest race of jim's career, like even probably even harder than beating everybody and winning utmb that year. Like the level of competition at the western states this year is going to be. Did you see rod farvard?
Speaker 2:like I was actually just going to bring him up what Like everybody's getting so good man. It's yeah. Yeah, I'm so excited for Western. I don't think this many people have been like. It's always like obviously like an A race on the calendar, but I feel like it's another level this year for everybody. I feel like everybody is. It is their sole goal and their sole purpose is that race.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I'm curious to see like who who shows up and who gets smashed.
Speaker 2:And yeah, conflict and conflict resolution, dude, it's a beautiful thing but, uh, one last thing I want to bring up too, regarding big ulta um, so the talk about you know fueling lately, the, the high carb revolution that's been going on, um, this is a 50k and you know 50 Ks do involve, you know, fueling, um, and it's a very important part of it. But the high carb thing with 50 Ks now I don't know. I feel like we're going to see some, uh, we're going to see some people potentially dropping out to like throwing up or something like that, cause you know, putting back like 130, 150 grams. Um, moving at those speeds it's, it's not easy for for your stomach to, yeah, yeah, to digest that. So I everyone, that's in it.
Speaker 2:I hope that they've been. You know, uh, stomach training their stomach, um, because, yeah, everyone's been getting so into this and like, yeah, there are benefits to it, but I think it's more on the longer side of things. I don't know if it's the 50 K, it's as beneficial. So I'm really curious how people tweak things and hearing post-race how people did fuel Um, it'll be interesting, cause it's it's a dry climate too, um, shouldn't be too warm, um, so I don't think hydration is going to be a killer, but, uh, but they could have some stomach issues. So that's something to look out for. Yeah, dude.
Speaker 1:That's something to look out for, Dude. I think it's a great assessment there. I've been asked this quite a few times lately. I can't answer it because I don't really run super long distances.
Speaker 2:If.
Speaker 1:I do it's once a week, but it's like I do 130 grams of carbohydrate. You can't do that on the treadmill In the sense where if you're training on the treadmill and then you go and transfer that to a race where you're running at five minute greater just pace, like you are, you destroy yourself. Oh yeah, yeah, I'm curious, man. I that could be a very thing into play with the, at least with the 50k, 28k maybe to a lesser degree, but like right, right, with the 50k and that, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1:And the other thing too is like you bring up a really good point here, and this is something I talked with Jane Moss on the pod about was like, do you like when you start with these races? Because like 50k is a good example it starts at eight o'clock, it's a three hour race, is done by 1112. You know, the day warms up, right, but it starts cold. I think the high for the day, both of these days is like 58 and then the following day is 59, so it's like temperature increasing. So if it's starting in the 40s and going into the 50s, maybe 60s, um, you know what that does. Obviously there's not as much a temperature variation there, but like on some of these races.
Speaker 1:There is, and it's like there is yeah, starting with, like starting with uh solids and going to liquids and trying sure like yeah I know, chuck chuckin.
Speaker 2:Uh, last weekend, um horrible weather, freezing, cold rain um, I have people dropped out to hype for hypothermia. They they ditched their jackets at the first aid station and they regretted it at mile 20 and they had to drop out. It's so, yeah, weather can play, but I don't think it will here no, I don't.
Speaker 1:I think it's not supposed to hold off on the rain too. So, dude, we're, we're speaking of weather. We're supposed to get like a 75 degree neck date like day next week. Holy shit, it's, it's, it's spring, dude as much as always in march.
Speaker 2:I always like, I always jinx it and I'm always like, okay, the snow is done for the year, snow is done for the year. Um, and then we always get dumped on. But honestly, I'm calling it right now, think we're done, I think we're in the clear. I don't know, unless April. Something gets rowdy in April. But yeah, oh man.
Speaker 1:Well, man, I appreciate it. This was a great conversation. Thank you for your expert analysis. I think the audience is going to take a ton away from this. Yeah, until the next one, we'll start playing on the next one, next. So there we go, heck. Yeah, all right, appreciate it All. So there we go. Yeah, all right, appreciate it All right, nick, thanks brother, thank you.
Speaker 1:What'd you guys think? Oh man, what a fun episode Super fun. Really appreciate Nick coming on, uh, to give some expert analysis and talk about the both of the men's and women's races. Um, I think there was a lot of value there. Lots of topics, lots of rivalries. Um, guys, we're heated up in the season. I am so excited to see where this is going to go. So, yeah, good luck to all the men and women competing, especially my friends that are going to be out there this weekend Definitely will be following along and wishing everyone the best of luck on their respective competitions.
Speaker 1:Guys, before we get going, hop on Instagram. Give Nick Tusa a follow. You can find him at nicktusa. Definitely give him a follow. Let him know what you guys thought about the episode. I'm sure he would love to hear from you guys. Last but not least, a couple housekeeping items. If you enjoyed this episode, please give us a five-star rating and review on Spotify, apple or wherever you consume podcasts. And very last, very, very, very, very. Last, but not totally least, come join us.
Speaker 1:Saturday, the 29th of March, 8am to midday. We are going to be celebrating our podcast one-year anniversary. I'm so excited for this. We're going to have a live podcast with Bailey Kowalczyk. We are going to have a group run. We're going to be doing all kinds of fun stuff Lots of giveaways brought to you by Ultimate Direction. Cetus is sending me some stuff to give away to you guys, which I'm super excited for, and we're also going to have a shoe demo brought to you by Nike Trail. So it's going to be a dope day. It's going to be awesome. So looking forward to it. Thanks so much, guys. Hope to see you out there and again, that's going to be Saturday, the 29th, at the Colorado Running Company in Colorado Springs. Hope to see you there. Thank you you.
