The Therapy Business Podcast
We know how challenging growing a therapy practice can be, and don’t think it should require an accounting degree just to run your business. If you own a solo or a group practice, we’re here to help you build a business that creates more time, makes more money and serves more people.
The Therapy Business Podcast
From Solo Therapist to Thriving Group Practice w/Kathrine Parnell
Ever wondered how a solo therapist can transform into a successful business owner with multiple thriving locations? Kathrine Parnell, the owner of A New View Counseling, shares her remarkable journey from a side gig to managing a bustling practice with 46 employees across four states.
Kathrine opens up about the logistical challenges, the importance of a cohesive company culture despite geographical spread, and the strategies that keep her team connected and motivated.
Kathrine's story is a testament to visionary leadership and the unique skills therapists bring to business ownership. Don't miss this compelling episode filled with practical advice and inspiring stories.
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We specialize in helping therapy practices like yours achieve financial clarity, so you can focus on what you do best—helping your clients and managing your team- while we help handle all the businessy stuff they didn’t teach you in grad school.
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*Intro/outro song credit:
King Around Here by Alex Grohl
Going from being a solo therapist to owning a group practice with multiple clinicians working under you can be a terrifying and intimidating transition to make. Today I talked with my good friend, catherine Parnell, who owns a NewView Counseling. She has gone from being a solo therapist to owning a group practice and today I talked to her, picked her brain a little bit to see how did she go from being a one-man show to owning multiple practices all across the country? My name is Craig and I'm the CEO of Desi Financial Coaching. Our goal is simple to help you run a therapy practice that is permanently profitable. If you own a solo or group practice, we're here to help you build a business that creates more time, makes more money and serves more people. This is the Therapy Business Podcast. Makes more money and serves more people. This is the Therapy Business Podcast. Hey, catherine, thank you so much for being here. How are you doing?
Speaker 2:I'm doing well. How are you, Craig?
Speaker 1:I'm good. I'm good. We have known each other for a couple years now. I know we've done some work together and just I've always been just blown away by the things you're doing with your practice, the knowledge you have with growing a practice, and so it was a no brainer whenever we connected of will you please come and just share your expertise with us?
Speaker 2:Well, I'm super happy that you asked. I always like to spend some time with you, so yeah, this is fantastic. I'm excited about this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love it. Well, let's just start with tell us a little bit about you and your practice. How did you get started? Because I know you started, I think, as a solo therapist. Right that just expanded into what I think you have. Is it 20, 30 something employees now it's just grown like crazy.
Speaker 2:We have grown tremendously. Yeah, yeah, I started as just a solo practitioner. The whole idea was for me to. It was just supposed to be a side gig, it was supposed to be just something I did on the weekends. And now, uh, we've got four locations. We actually have 46 employees now. So we really have grown tremendously and it's super exciting to be able to serve different communities in different ways and find the needs in each community and figure out how we can get those met.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and I'm sure that's an interesting dynamics we were just talking about. You had opened a location in my city and when I was trying to find your business I was like that can't be it. I don't think she has an office in Austin, which you do now. How is that going from? Cause you're in Utah, so is it? Is it weird having offices in different States, working with people who are nowhere near you, or does it feel still pretty connected? What is that like?
Speaker 2:Well, it's tricky. There's logistical issues that we have to figure out. There's travel, of course, that we have to do. Members of our executive team travel out there and make sure that we are staying connected. I always have to do the time zone conversion in my head, which makes it a little bit complicated, but we really emphasize our company culture. That is such a big part of what we do, and so we work every single day to make sure that all of our team members are connected, and we do that in a variety of ways. I think our values are one of the things that we always lean back on to say okay, are we addressing things in a consistent way from office to office? So, even though each office might have just a different feel to it it doesn't always have the same exact structure there is a consistency in the mission of what the company is attempting to do and the attitude of service that we have toward our communities and to our team members.
Speaker 1:I love that. I love that the attitude of service. That's been a huge focus for us this year and we call it. We've said, the theme for us and our company is just client experience and how can we improve that, and that ultimately shows itself through that service.
Speaker 2:It really does.
Speaker 1:Yes, very much so. So with that, you're talking about the culture being an important and valuable part of what you guys do. So how do you connect everyone? You've got all these people from all in different locations. How are you able to build a culture when you're not sitting in the same office? I think back to when I was teaching and being next to another teacher and we're on our lunch break getting to just talk and connect. And in this digital world and not living in the same towns, it's a little bit more difficult to cultivate.
Speaker 2:Right. So the first thing that we do is we have there is our clinical directors in each of our offices are part of our executive team. So we have our executive team that comes together every single week to make sure that we're all on the same page, things like all of our new team members, I actually do the onboarding with them, and so a lot of that is virtual, but they're getting that consistent message from me as the founder and as the executive director, and I build relationships with them. You know, I make sure that I know about their families and I make sure that I know about you know pain points in their life. And then we make sure that our practice coordinators at each location are doing the same thing. They're often labeled as the mom of the office because they are taking care of everybody in the office and making sure not just the logistical needs are being met but oftentimes that the emotional needs that all of our team members are feeling valued.
Speaker 2:We do things like we have.
Speaker 2:We utilize a Microsoft platform, and so we have things like team chats for tech issues and for just fun in the offices. We generate a lot of fun. We do things like what we call a new view on the town, excuse me which is where usually a few times a year, we'll just have a social gathering of the team members, and the team members get to bring a plus one with them, an adult plus one, and so that pulls their family members into it as well, and their significant others or you know, the people who are important in their lives then are invested as well in our team members and the work that they're doing with a new view counseling. So those are some of the of the things that we do. We do a lot of coaching, we do a lot of career development, but I think the main emphasis is just making sure that people feel understood, that they feel valued in the role that they have. We are not seeking to be punitive in any of our measures. We really are about just helping people develop themselves as a professional.
Speaker 1:That's fantastic and you know, I think, especially as a lot of practice owners from what I went on our conversations, as we're talking about either adding team members or just growing, it's the fear and the feeling is I need how do we pay them competitively? Because with commission splits and different things in the industry, there's a standard that almost is not financially healthy in a lot of ways. For a profit margin, you're paying out so much that there's not a lot of room, and so finding those ways to make it a place people want to work, finding creative ways and, yes, some of those are financial. It sounds like things you have to spend some money on, but it's not necessarily. We're going to pay as much as we can to you. We're going to give everything to you on these sessions and then now we don't have any extra money to do anything else to make this a place that you'd want to be.
Speaker 1:How have you seen that balance? Has that been a familiar thing to try and navigate? Is it difficult incentivizing people and trying to also pay them? Well, what has that been looking like?
Speaker 2:Well, what I've learned is I think most of us as practice owners, we learned through the process of COVID. That was a really difficult time for hiring and there was such a demand that I for myself, I felt like that I just couldn't pay enough right. There was more turnover in our practices, people were finding ways to be more independent and maybe start their own practices, and so I learned, used that time to figure out what are the key points that people really want to emphasize when they're thinking about. Do I want to stay at this practice or do I want to stay with this employer? And certainly financial compensation is up there. It is in our economic times right now.
Speaker 2:It's very important that people make as much as they can. But that isn't the only consideration. People really want to be noticed. They really want to be valued, and if you can create a culture in which people know each other, understand each other really, we often say we honor each other, we really do honor each other.
Speaker 2:We don't have drama in our offices. We just we have an environment where everyone, what everyone brings to the table, is valued, and it may be a completely different mindset than what I bring to the table, but that's really beautiful when you have that, because you've got different people approaching it from different vantage points. So I think what I have learned is, yes, you've got to be fiscally very wise, you've got to be competitive, but you don't have to be the top payer. You really need to just have a very well-rounded approach to your office that values people. We tell our employees in fact interviewees when they're interviewing for a position. We say we honor you as a person first before a professional, and I think that I know the feedback that I get is that that is very much appreciated and it contributes to people sticking around.
Speaker 1:Yeah, honor you as people first. I think that's so fantastic. So do you find that a lot of your clinicians are referring their friends? Is that how you're getting new people? So do you notice, I guess, a trend of people like you have to come work here. It's different than everywhere else, I would imagine. If it's a people first thing, that is probably what draws people in first thing. That is probably what draws people in.
Speaker 2:Right, well, you get a little bit of both. It's funny, because when people find a really good thing, then they get really selective with who they want to bring into that.
Speaker 2:So, yes, we do get referrals. I think we have a pretty good reputation as being a company that really backs our team members and so that you know, your reputation really goes before you. And we have found that we've been in the business now this is our 10th year in business and so we have seen the comings and the goings of different people. We've seen new practices that have started as a result of the seeds that we planted, which is really exciting to see other people do that. And even as people transition, even if they leave our agency, we don't want to, you know, cut off those relationships. We believe in these people and we want to continue to invest in them.
Speaker 1:That's. I love that, because it's it is a fear for a lot of practice owners that, ok, you know, this clinician is going to be here for a while, they're going to build their caseload and then they're going to see you later. I'm going to go start my own thing, because the temptation is always there. I mean, I think most therapists have started working for someone else and then ended up doing their own thing because they're going. Hey, you know what I could? Probably, instead of making X dollars per session, I could keep the whole thing, which, as you and I know, that's not really how it works. You don't get to keep it.
Speaker 1:And all of a sudden you're spending.
Speaker 2:You only knew how much you actually get to keep.
Speaker 1:Exactly, you know, and as we are hiring coaches on the people who interview to work with us, because they could go start their own coaching business and most of them do. But what they say is I want to work with people on their finances and what I found out is 80, 90% of my time is marketing and sales and systems and just creating all these things, and they don't get to spend as much time working with those clients. And therapist leaves. I think that's probably true too. They don't necessarily realize all the work and yeah, maybe I get to charge 200 a session and keep 200 a session. But again, yeah, money has to be funneled back out into the growth of the business and marketing and everything in between, and so, yeah, I think, creating that place.
Speaker 2:We are pretty transparent about those things, craig. So we have our entire team. We expose them to that information each year as we're looking at fiscal planning for the next year. We present those numbers to them and we show them this is how much, these are the percentages, this is the money, this is where it's going, so that they can see a little bit more of the detail of what's going on behind the scenes. That when they are asking for additional resources, that it's not just, you know, a money tree that we can just go pull some off and and go provide those resources.
Speaker 2:We have to be balanced in how we're spending things. We have to be balanced in our compensation packages, and so my team members will always hear me say that we don't ride too close to the guardrail. We want to keep those buffer zones in place, because the idea here is for us to be in business 10, 20, 30 years down the road, not to be just a quick flash in the pan. So and I think you know we've done that, we've done a good job of that oh, we've been in business for 10 years. We've had a good, steady growth and we'll continue to do so, I believe, as a result of the practices that we've put in place.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love, don't ride too close to the guardrails, Um, and I think being transparent in that is super healthy and letting people know that you're yeah, of course you know it would be great if we could pay you every dime, possible dime that we have coming in. But there's also the safety. You're responsible for making sure they have a job to come to on Monday and it's a greater responsibility and so just nurturing that. So, as you started from solo, just you what did that look like? Even getting into that first step of of, okay I'm going to, because, like you said, you started thinking, okay, this will just be a side, a side hustle, and now it's like, okay, now I'm going to have a team and I'm going to be a boss. What did that first hire look like? If you even remember, what did that transition from solo practice owner to group practice owner look like?
Speaker 2:Well, it was a little scary, you know, because you don't want to. I'm a rule follower, so I didn't want to do things the wrong way, but I was always. What I figured out was I was getting so many referrals and I was having to pass them on to other people and I thought, wouldn't it be really nice if I had someone else in house that I could pass those referrals to and we could work together, house that I could pass those referrals to and we could work together? For example, maybe I was seeing a couple, but one of those individuals really needed individual therapy. Wouldn't it be fantastic if they were in the same agency and that way we would have a really collaborative effort between the therapist to be able to help this family in a more meaningful way. And so we went ahead.
Speaker 2:And I went ahead and put an advertisement out and got our first applicant and it was a very slow start. I mean, she only wanted to see like eight to 10 clients a week. We did cash pay. Only she was an associate, so she worked under my supervision and that was new for me, and so there were a lot of new pieces to it and we you know it. Just it was a very, very slow start. I will mention that she is now our clinical director of our Utah offices, so she's been with us a while and and she's an amazing clinician now. But it was that was just the first start, and then it was like, all right, well, she filled up, let's do another one and another one.
Speaker 2:And we just continued to grow to where we just kept out growing, the place where we were at, and we would have to move to another place. And what I will tell you what? The biggest lesson I've learned in all of it is make sure that you have the right people in the right seats, hold out for the right people, because from time to time we brought somebody in that really wasn't aligned to the values of the company as much as they needed to be, and so it creates friction, it creates distress and when we talk about company culture, it's one of the quickest ways to tear the culture down. So we were, we've learned to just be really mindful about it. We really get very selective. As we put out an advertisement, we're not trying to get 50 people to respond to the ad. We really would like only two or three to respond, because those are the ones that we will very much align with and will be a great fit for the company and will be a great fit for them.
Speaker 1:That's a great point and I love that you're catching them even before they schedule or even apply, because, yeah, then you're spending time getting on calls with people who maybe weren't even a great fit to begin with and so weeding out those people. You know, one big thing I know we've done even just to help weed that process and this is not totally related, but as we're interviewing people, it's like we always ask for a video for them just to submit a video of themselves, purely because not even that we're judging anything on the video, but just the fact that they're going to do it and we'll put that out there says okay, like they will be somebody we probably will at least want to talk to if everything seems to fit.
Speaker 1:But, catching just those. Yeah, because I've gone through the same thing where I was desperate trying to hurry and get somebody in um and getting on these interview calls or getting close to just bringing somebody out. And it can be tempting because interviewing is not fun, it is a exhausting process and if you're going through this pool of candidates and and maybe you could speak to this, but it's okay, nobody is really a good fit, it can be tempting to say, okay, who is the best of the group that we can just hire, versus let's put something else back out there and try and get a new pool of applicants. Have you ever seen that happen? Have you experienced that?
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely, absolutely no-transcript. A great fit for every single person out there. So I know that it is much less work to sit back and wait for the right people than it is to not have the right person in that seat and be constantly having to go back and address and maybe clean up some messes and then again it goes back to then trying to salvage the culture. So in my mind I am now a protector of our company culture and I am here. So when I bring someone in I have to make sure is this person not just going to be a good fit for the company, but how are they going to interact with the other team members in that local office? And if there's going to be some friction, some distress in there, then it's not going to be the right fit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, and I've heard people say and I think of this all the time that you go from you know patients or being your clients to now as a business owner, it's like your employees are, are your responsibility. So you know, that's who you're, that's who you're really trying to take care of and nurture, Whereas previously, when you were just doing mostly therapy, it's like your client was who you were focused on taking care of, and so that pivots and protecting them and keeping that line of communication open, just like you would with a patient or client, I think is a cool and interesting dynamic in that shift. It really is.
Speaker 2:It is a cool transition because, like you said, you can really apply it both ways and I think you know, not every therapist is going to make a good business owner, but I will say that as a therapist, we are trained in understanding how to read human behavior and how to connect with people, and those are definitely some strong components that I utilize in day-to-day with my company.
Speaker 1:Yeah, 100%. Well, and you and I were talking before we started recording about just that transition too of doing the day-to-day work as we've been kind of talking about this already of I'm providing therapy and now my whole role has shifted completely into business owner, and how weird that transition can be. And again, a lot of listeners are are group practice owners who maybe are afraid to let go of their clients, or maybe they're solo practice owners who are just kind of wondering what that transition is like. Will you talk a little bit about that for you, just like going from I'm providing therapy to these clients, are you still seeing clients right now and what is your? I guess what is your day to day look like?
Speaker 2:So when I started, when I got to the point where it was time to hire someone, and for several years, even after hiring several people, I was still seeing 25 to 30 clients a week and I continued that I don't know that I did it well all the time because some plate was being dropped. As more and more plates began to spin and I began as I started receiving more coaching and getting more information about how to really focus on the business, I realized that I needed to shift over from working in the business to working on the business and if it was going to grow and if it was going to get the attention that it so much deserved. So I had a lot of family support. I remember my kids checking in with me and saying how many clients do you have? You know they were a little critical about it, but you know, and I'd say I only have 10. And they'd say it's too many, it's too many, you've got to cut it back. And then you know my bleeding heart would take on another one and I'd feel so bad. And now I have got it down to I think I see about three clients a week on average and most of my I do autism evaluations, and so a lot of my work is done with those, and so those are not ongoing sessions that you're going to have. So that helps, because then, when things administratively are a little bit slower, I can pick up a couple of those and still get my feet wet in the therapy world, which is something I very, very much recommend.
Speaker 2:I don't think that a therapist should completely step out of that role of being a therapist. I think they need it's like a language. You need to keep those skills sharp. You need to keep that language developed. If we look at our society around us and we watch as it evolves, you need to stay up on that and you need to see how behavioral health is being impacted. And that helps you with your team members, because they look around and even though I'm the executive director, I am in the trench with them. I run a social skills group with three of our other therapists right now and we all work together in it, so there isn't this attitude of, oh well, catherine is, you know, she doesn't know what the work is like or she doesn't know how heavy it can be. I absolutely do, and I think that it brings an added value to my voice when I'm coaching them or supervising them.
Speaker 1:That's great. Yes, I think you're 100% right that it's the language. I think that's great.
Speaker 1:I used to be a teacher and I was. My buddy is an assistant principal, still in the district, and it's been probably eight plus years since I taught and I realized how out of touch I am with the world of education, how much it's changed even just in those number of years. You know, and a lot of the things I'm saying or think about are outdated. Things have just changed completely. The experiences have changed completely, even just as we were talking before about post and pre COVID that's the world is is different.
Speaker 1:And so I think, being in that trenches, always having clients, I still have some clients that I'll probably hold on to as long as they'll. They'll have me just cause it's as long as they'll there, as long as they want to keep getting on calls with me, but that's just. You know, I still enjoy it at the root of it. That's why we started our business is that love of therapy, it's that love of helping people with their finances, and so to some degree I want to hold onto it a little bit, but also knowing that you are now, because you are willing to step out and say I'm going to work on the business Now. Your reach and your service has just extended exponentially. You're helping so many more people, even though you're not giving them that hour of your time, but you're creating positions, you're creating opportunity and just impacting way more lives just by focusing on the business itself.
Speaker 2:Right. Your influence doesn't stop, it just spreads in a different way. And so instead of me influencing, you know, 25 to 30 people in their lives through the process of therapy, I'm now doing it through the process of running, creating jobs and creating a safe place for people to be, place for people to be, and I think that that's such a different, it's just such a different environment. It's always sad to me because we're so conditioned as individuals. If I call one of our team members up and I say, hey, can I chat with you for a minute, immediately everyone just goes to panic. They go to, oh, I'm being called into the principal's office.
Speaker 2:And that is just such a result of our conditioning that we have all been in places where we've been employed, where there's been an oppressive environment of things being punitive, and so that's something that I really took to heart of my own personal experiences and knowing what that was like. And so I turned that around and said we're not going to do that, we're going to be transparent. We always say our motto is there are no bad surprises at a new view counseling. We only like to give good surprises. And so if I call someone in, I don't say, hey, come chat with me. I say, hey, can you come chat with me about and I tell them what it is that we're going to be talking about, so that they have a minute to wrap their head around it and they're not coming in with high anxiety, which is, as a therapist, something that we try to avoid.
Speaker 1:Yes, oh, that's great, that transparency and just even that little thing can, can just make it such a more nurturing environment to work in. Uh, just that, come talk to me about this and even if it's a bad thing, it's like okay, here we go and, and I can tell people get to know you well too, and you know, there there's this dynamic of that you probably create, of I'm never in trouble, maybe, and you know there's, there's probably always going to be consequences, and I'm sure there's been times and there will be times that people just aren't a great fit for the company anymore. But just there's ways to approach that and ways to guide and coach through those processes. Before it comes to that versus, yeah, just like on the offense, like we're on opposing sides right now and what you're doing isn't working and it's as I don't like it, and suddenly we're against each other instead of let me walk alongside you.
Speaker 2:Right. It's very cooperative rather than being adversarial.
Speaker 1:Yes, 100%. Well, catherine, I could talk to you forever, but so tell me a little bit about where you're, where you're headed or where you hope to be in the future. What are you hoping for? A new view, counseling. What do you want it to become?
Speaker 2:Well, we last year part of our growth plan has been partnering with other therapy offices, other group practices, where the group practice owners have just become really tired.
Speaker 2:You know, they've maybe walked the road and decided it's not the road they want to be on anymore. Most of them just want to go back to. Most of them that we're encountering just want to go back to the actual therapeutic work and they realize that they're a great therapist but maybe being the business owner wasn't the ideal fit for them. And so we've been able to partner with those offices and do an acquisition of those offices so that they're under our umbrella and we provide that infrastructure and we provide the culture and they get to go back to their first love, which is the therapeutic world. So we're continuing to do that. We, you know, have a vision of being a connected system of mental health offices across the US, and so that's the plan for the next few years is that we'll keep things going, keep the fires going strong where they are burning right now and we'll continue to expand into communities where we're needed.
Speaker 1:Yeah, great. So with that acquisition this just brought up another question, as we've been talking about culture. If you so, companies you found and maybe this is part of your vetting process but let's say you find a practice, and what if they have a toxic culture already and you're taking, is that something that's a deal breaker, or is it something that you've had to get your hands dirty and fix, or have you even crossed that yet?
Speaker 2:So it happens. I mean one of the things that you know when you're, when you're moving into that arena, you have to really do everything you can to stabilize the business that you are, you know, taking over, because you're an unknown and unknowns are scary to people and even even though it may have been a really positive culture, really they have loyalty to the owner. Their loyalty is to that owner and so we make sure that we put good, solid strategies in place. Again, we build relationships. That's what we focus on. First is building relationships with the individual team members and with the practice owner, to make sure that it is going to be a stable footing, that we're not going to take a step and drown as we go into a new area. And we've been successful at it. You're right, it is part of the vetting process. We make sure that the values are 100% aligned.
Speaker 2:When you're sitting on a call with a practice owner and we're finishing each other's sentences and we're speaking the same language and we've got the same frustrations, we've got the same heartaches, but they are ready to transition to something different and we're able to really go in and provide resources that they couldn't provide to their team. So it becomes a win-win, and that has been such an important part of it is that their team members see it as a win, that they see that they're getting something really positive out of this. They're not losing anything. They get the same people they get to work with. They get the same physical environment. They just get some extra bonuses that are kind of built into our system of caring for our team members. It's worked out really well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you could probably write a whole book on how to acquire other practices the right way, Cause I mean even just having the luxury of watching you do do some of them on in the past. I mean you are super patient with it, Just like you were talking about hiring people slowly into you, and there's this practice that maybe was like really, really tempting to acquire, but there's not everything, whether it was the finances, whether it was just a couple of things that were red flags and, um, you're like you know what it's, this is just one I have to walk away from. And it would be very tempting to go, wow, our revenue could grow by X dollars and and all those things, but to say here's kind of our values or here's what we're looking for, and if it doesn't check those boxes, as emotionally connected or maybe as much as I want it, it's just not the right fit.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. What has never been lost on me is the responsibility I have toward every single team member, and that first hire. Like I said, she's still with us and I just remember the enormous weight of that when we hired her and thinking she is depending upon this paycheck and her family is depending upon this, and every single team member we have has that same dependence upon our company, which means that they're dependent upon the decisions that I'm making, and so it really it puts some restraint in there. You know, when you are tempted to say, oh, that'd be a great growth plan, or you know that could really increase revenue, you want to make sure that you're going in the right direction, which what has really helped with that is, we have an entire executive team. So while I'm at the helm of things and I'm, you know, maybe making some final decisions on some, some movement, uh, I am getting input and really valuing everything everybody has to say so that, uh, we can protect the entity as it is and protect the culture that everyone has grown to love.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that. I love that. Oh, catherine, let's, I guess, tell me how people can get learn more about you, get connected with you. I don't know if you're actively looking for practices, but if somebody wanted to learn more about what you do, how could they do that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, so they can. They can go to our website, which is anewviewcounselingnet. They can also. I'll put my email address out there. Anybody is. I'm happy to help. I'm happy to email people back. I know over the years people have asked questions about how did you do this or how are you doing that, and I'm always pretty willing to help other people move along in their journey as well. So my email is kparnell P-A-R-N-E-L-L at anewviewcounselingnet, and I'm happy for people to reach out.
Speaker 1:Awesome. We'll put links to those too as well in the show notes so that way anybody wants to get connected with you, they can. I highly recommend it. You'll learn a ton from Catherine and I really appreciate you taking time out of your busy day of all your practices that you're running to chat with me. Thanks for joining us on the Therapy Business Podcast. Be sure to subscribe, leave a review and share it with a practice owner that you may know If your practice needs help getting organized with its finances or just growing your practice. Head to therapybusinesspodcom to learn how we can help.
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