When the lines between political savvy and media puppetry blur, Lev Farnes steps in to shed light on the shadowy corners of influence and manipulation. This episode peels away layers of the political spectacle, revealing the unsettling nexus of power and profit, as epitomized by Rudy Giuliani and the wider Trump orbit. As a former Republican and one-time Trump voter, I bring a personal dimension to the conversation, reflecting on the enigmatic yet potent pull of fundraising emails that keep the base in thrall.
Venturing into the choppy seas of political divides, we find ourselves moving from candid chats with contractors to the thorny issue of student loan forgiveness. The episode brims with stories, such as my journey from testimony to tax audit, and how these political undercurrents ripple through our personal lives, reaching as close to home as my own son. Lev and I traverse the landscape of America's polarization, grappling with the uncomfortable challenge of fostering dialogue amidst the widening ideological chasms.
As we wrap up, we take a bird's-eye view of the intricate web spun by belief perseverance, right-wing media echo chambers, and the indelible imprint of technology on the fabric of society. The episode isn't shy about examining the psyche behind political narratives, the hypnotic power of suggestion, and the future of Russia in a post-Putin world. Concluding with a glimpse into the legal entanglements of figures like Giuliani and Mark Meadows, this installment promises a rich tapestry of insights complementing the linear narratives of my book, all while extending heartfelt thanks to Lev Farnes for enriching our discourse.
When the lines between political savvy and media puppetry blur, Lev Farnes steps in to shed light on the shadowy corners of influence and manipulation. This episode peels away layers of the political spectacle, revealing the unsettling nexus of power and profit, as epitomized by Rudy Giuliani and the wider Trump orbit. As a former Republican and one-time Trump voter, I bring a personal dimension to the conversation, reflecting on the enigmatic yet potent pull of fundraising emails that keep the base in thrall.
Venturing into the choppy seas of political divides, we find ourselves moving from candid chats with contractors to the thorny issue of student loan forgiveness. The episode brims with stories, such as my journey from testimony to tax audit, and how these political undercurrents ripple through our personal lives, reaching as close to home as my own son. Lev and I traverse the landscape of America's polarization, grappling with the uncomfortable challenge of fostering dialogue amidst the widening ideological chasms.
As we wrap up, we take a bird's-eye view of the intricate web spun by belief perseverance, right-wing media echo chambers, and the indelible imprint of technology on the fabric of society. The episode isn't shy about examining the psyche behind political narratives, the hypnotic power of suggestion, and the future of Russia in a post-Putin world. Concluding with a glimpse into the legal entanglements of figures like Giuliani and Mark Meadows, this installment promises a rich tapestry of insights complementing the linear narratives of my book, all while extending heartfelt thanks to Lev Farnes for enriching our discourse.
All right, Lev, we're back. We're back. As it turns out, my viewers and listeners love hearing from Lev Farnes.
Speaker 2:Oh, thank you so much. I mean I love your viewers, listeners and all the public out there with the support they're allowing me to and you to give me the platform to be able to speak the truth, to power, to be able to speak the truth to power?
Speaker 1:Well, absolutely, and I think it's so important to have people such as yourself on. You know the news and all of the networks have all kinds of experts on, and I'm not diminishing the insights that the experts provide, but oftentimes they're giving an analysis of something rather than a firsthand account of having been involved with these people, and every time you move one person out, you're going to lose some of the information that's critical, and so the closer we can stay to the act or acts that happened and the people involved, I think the closer we get to informing the citizens of this country the truth. We've got a lot we can talk about today, but let's kick it off with. Rudy has himself a little line. You could say that again a little bit.
Speaker 1:Do you think and I realize I'm asking you to speculate here because I don't suppose any of us know, but Rudy do you think that was intentional on Rudy's part to so easily give his position away so so he could be served, or was that just a slip up?
Speaker 2:No, it's. You know it's part of the game. You know, for Rudy it's trying to get into the media, getting into the limelight. He needs to raise money. That's his only way of being able to pay for whatever legal fees and lifestyle that he currently has and to stay relevant in the mega world, because, you know, donald Trump is taking over the news cycle every day now and it's very difficult to pierce it. So you know, rudy did whatever he could by literally going on the run and taunting the Arizona prosecutors to come and get him on live TV. So I mean, he's not stupid. He understood that it's being live streamed and they would know where he was, and so it was just part of the Rudy Giuliani trying to manipulate the media type of tour.
Speaker 1:And with that, let me ask you this question because I think myself and most viewers have a pretty good hunch as to what the case is on this, but I just want to kind of get it confirmed from somebody that's been there in Ukraine. Even something as targeted and critical as that that has the outcome of changing the election or hurting Biden is the grift always a part of everything in Trump world Meaning? Is it true that, no matter what's going on, he's never so single-mindedly focused on one specific outcome that he forgets to grift on it?
Speaker 2:Well, the grift is the main thing, you know. That's what it's all about. I mean, staying in power is being able to grift. He understands that he's in such a position that if, once he loses power, there's no business that he could possibly do. There's no business that he could possibly do. So his only way of making money is grifting off of the poor people out there that you know are cultinized in his cult, that are, you know, trying to support him by not feeding their own families, by depriving themselves from certain things, to be able to send them those five, ten dollars so he could go ahead and go out there and, you know, do the crazy things that he's doing. So it's all about the grift, and you could tell, even going back from what we were doing, whatever we were doing in Ukraine, to what he's doing currently.
Speaker 2:Now, I'm still on a lot of the mailer lists. They haven't taken me off. So, literally, as he's going to court, as he's leaving court, while he's in court, I'm receiving emails from the Trump campaign talking about the prosecutors, the judge, you know, and Rudy has the same thing, because I'm on his emailers and they're all using it. Ted Cruz is using it, all of them, you know they're using these mailers to send out, to grift, literally raise money off of these things that are happening, these criminal things that usually society wants to hide.
Speaker 2:People will try to hide these things running for public office. Instead, they are glorifying it and using it to raise more money, and that's the scary part, because that's what politicization is. And they're using that to try to, you know, literally not only divide but, you know, put people up in arms, because people are getting up to such a point where, you know, there's you hear all of these chatters and little conversations. Well, if this doesn't happen, you know I'm ready to. You know, grab my gun, grab my arms and go. So I mean, that's the dangerous part with all the rhetoric and you know, so you know, and the grift is pushing it more and more towards that.
Speaker 1:You know you mentioned something you're still on a lot of the mailers and maybe the texts that go out, and I am as well. A lot of listeners or viewers of the Jack Hopkins Show podcast may or may not know this, but I'm a former Republican. I actually voted for Donald Trump in 2016. Oh wow, I didn't know that.
Speaker 2:Jack, yes.
Speaker 1:I'm still on many of those, and the reason I bring that up other than just to let people know about my past is when I read those emails sometimes I'll take a moment and just say, okay, what are they saying now? If it weren't for the fact, lev, that you know those emails work and people send money, it would be laughable, because when you read down through you know you're like how could any intelligent human being read this and take it seriously? I mean, it's something out of the back of a magazine Like remember when we were kids you could order the sea monkeys, you know.
Speaker 2:Well, think about that. That's a great example you're just giving. Just think about it. You would look at those things back in the day in the back of the magazine and think why would somebody use this? Who would ever pay money or buy or do this?
Speaker 2:But there's a market for it. There's a market. There's a. There's a market for every craziness and sickness out there and, unfortunately, donald trump pierced into this cult, mega cult market where, by sending these messages, what he's basically just doing is keep pushing them and reminding them where to send the money. You know, it's like with every message, it's like another reminder to these, because these people are so up in arms, they're so all day there and each email they get it gets them even more riled up and it wants them more to get involved and it's part of the method. I mean, I remember back in 2016, when he was running and I was close back to the campaign there, when Brant Pascal and the old guys were around. That was their strategic point about mass marketing and hitting certain markets and piercing those markets and then maintaining them. And that's your mega cult that was assembled in 2016 and has grown up until now and we're in 224 within the past eight years.
Speaker 1:You are so spot on with that. There's a rather famous ad copywriter. His name is dan kennedy and I remember reading something of his many years ago and he tells the story about he was writing this ad copy for a golf driver, a driving club right, and this driver was going to be like a $3,900 driver and he had a buddy who was reading the ad copy that you know to sell it that he was writing. His buddy looked at him and said $3,900? I would never give that much money for a driver. And Dan Kennedy looked at him and said but you're not my customer. My customer will pay $3,900. He knew who he was writing to and that a significant percentage of them would gladly trade their money. So I think it's safe to say, then, the way they craft their messages tells us quite a little bit about the psychological makeup of the people who, oh, absolutely.
Speaker 2:I mean, just think about it, jack, and you get the messages. Each message starts off as a personalized message towards that person. Yes, so right away they're hitting on the low educated psyche or the ambition of a person that thinks oh, my God, he noticed me, he singled me, somehow, I got noticed. Because they say, oh, you've been giving so much, you've been helping on, we've noticed, you're it, you're on the special list. Now You're the top 100 in your area. We need people like you and it drives the people that are already, you know, cultenized and want to go out there and scream their head off supporting Donald Trump. Now it's giving them ways that they could help, and the biggest way is to send money. So people don't usually don't have the time or the ability to help any other way. So the most common way is you know what can I do to help? You know I'm going to send and you know, by doing that, like I look at the crazy promotions they run, I mean you got a lot of Trump out there. They're selling the American, not American, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2:The Donald Trump black card. I have no idea why somebody would want it, but it's a limited time. Black car. That's all stainless steel or metal. She's she and she's out promoting it. And like, what does this do? It's a piece of metal that you're gonna put that has donald trump's name on it, like it doesn't, and they're selling him for, like, I think, a hundred dollars or something like that, and you know and so it's.
Speaker 2:It's crazy to see the the way they're just monetizing the criminal activity. So basically he's going out there being a criminal and then they're monetizing on the popularity of his criminal activities that he's doing. It's incredible to see what's going on. I don't think we've ever seen something like this and I hope we never will. I mean it's just amazing to see I would agree to see.
Speaker 1:I would agree. If we've ever seen anything similar to this. It has never been on this scale, never, oh no, and I like it. You know you talk about the or I guess we were talking about the psychology of the people they send those mailers to and they send those emails to, and I liken it to this Look, when I was a kid growing up, if my mother said it once, she said it a million times Don't go outside with wet hair, you'll catch a cold Right. You'll catch a cold Right Now, in 2024,. We know, of course, that the common cold is caused by a virus not cold air, but a lot of Trump voters, I find.
Speaker 1:Even in the information age where at our fingertips we can find out the facts on most anything, they are locked into an era where, rather than research and find the truth on matters, they are all too content to let somebody give them the truth, for one simple reason it takes less effort to let somebody else 100%.
Speaker 2:But, jack, you also have to be objective in that, because you have to understand. Yes, if this was one person out there giving this message, you could say yeah, you know everybody else is saying one thing. You're listening to one person. Go look it up, go take a look. But it's very difficult when you grow up in a country that you're supposed to value and look up to your congressmen, your senators, your officials I'm not even going to the extent of the White House, the president of the.
Speaker 2:United States. I'm talking about all of the and you have the media Also. Don't forget. We're taught, not we understand now that the media is not the media. But before this, we all thought that if we saw something on the news or written in the New York Times that that was fact, we sure wouldn't put it out there, you know. So we were taught, in a way, to listen to the news, listen to our congressmen, listen to our authorities, respect the president, to do all of these things. And now you have half of these. You know you got Republicans, mega world congressmen, senators, the ex-president, all of these you know, doj State Department officials that are going out there on mass media like Fox and Newsmax, and all of these that are, you know, promoting this and these lies, this misinformation.
Speaker 2:So if I was a person that you know and I used to be that person that would listen to Fox, you give me one reason why would I go and start researching all of this? What would make? What pushes me? I don't see the things that me and you are talking about because I don't listen to CNN or MSNBC. I don't listen to these things because I don't associate with people that talk about this, because people that I work with, people that I see, all believe the same thing, and if there is an outcast that comes out and starts spewing some of this stuff, so we're going to kill him with the facts that we know. So why would I? What would encourage me and this is why I always say to it, like what would encourage a person that watches Fox 24-7 a day to go out there and start researching it? Right, I mean why he's watching the news.
Speaker 2:He sees the Lindsey Grahams of the world, he sees the Jordans of the world, the Moscow Marges, all these congressmen, matt Gaetz, these are supposed to be people. They're all up there and you know the common person, what they say? They all can't be lying, right, they all can't be lying. I mean, they're all saying it. They say they all can't be lying, right, they all can't be lying. I mean, they're all saying it, every single.
Speaker 2:The news is saying it all day long, each reporter saying each congressman. So what makes that person go research, right? So that's why. So it's, it's the push is so difficult that being pushed upon, that's never been done before. What trump has done, by incorporating the help of the Fox News, the right-wing media, the congressmen and senators and the people of the DOJ and the State Department and all over prominent celebrities, prominent attorneys that are out there spewing this stuff, you have to understand. So it's not just that it's one guy out there and we're saying, like you know, yeah, you have to be pretty dumb to just listen to it. No, jack, it's much I'm realizing. It is so bad because you know a regular person that you know does not watch TV, that listens and does research, and it's impossible for him to realize the truth. It's impossible.
Speaker 1:I agree wholeheartedly. Let me give you, within the last 48 hours, a great example of that. I live in a very small community and it's a community in which the voters that actually voted in 2020, 78% of them voted for Donald Trump. So essentially, eight of every 10 voters voted for Donald Trump Trump, rich area, rural area.
Speaker 1:Now, contractors have last couple of years two or three years have been very hard to pin down. They're overworked. There's too few of them. It can take two or three years to get somebody to come look at an electrical issue. So we finally got an electrician over here a couple of days ago. It can take two or three years to get somebody to come look at an electrical issue. So we finally got an electrician over here a couple of days ago.
Speaker 1:We need some things rewired and I know the guy. I've known the guy at least 35, 40 years and we're talking and at some point the economy comes up and he says well, he said I guess Biden the other day forgave another $7 billion of student aid and then he grumbled about that. Now I'm in a position at that moment. I need to get these things rewired right, because if I unload on what I'm really thinking, he may leave and it's another two or three years. So I just changed the subject, walked in the other room and talked to my wife, but I realized or I should say I try to remind myself of this People like you and I are relatively rare, in the sense not many people at this age in their life change midstream.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's so difficult.
Speaker 1:You know and look, I know you and I have different reasons why we changed our position, and I also know that you catch heat all the time. Well, the only reason you changed positions is because you got a red. Blah, blah, blah, blah. Look, let's just assume that was true. That didn't mean that you had to go out on the campaign trail and start speaking out against Trump, and you have. And I don't think most people know, I mean, they hear about it and I don't think most people know.
Speaker 2:I mean, they hear about it, but I don't think most people fully have an understanding of the risks that come when you put yourself out there like that. Absolutely, jack, I mean not only most people don't understand the risks and the risks that I still go through and the stuff that I deal with to continuously. I mean just to give you a perfect example. I mean literally within not even 24 hours after I testified in front of Congress on the impeachment of Joe Biden, all of a sudden I get an audit on my probation and now all of a sudden I can't travel everywhere where I want, so I have to submit certain paperwork. I mean just the simple little things like that to try to you know that everything is so politicized. And the other thing you have to understand that we just spoke about. This is a perfect example. When people talk about oh, you wouldn't have changed if you didn't get arrested. Oh, you wouldn't have changed if you didn't get sued. Oh, you wouldn't have changed if you didn't get caught, probably, because how can you change if you're in that cult environment unless something extreme happens to you for you to realize or snap out of it. Right, the problem is not what's it called. Everybody goes through some sort of that, you know, you know shock, but the thing is do making that change, because people don't understand. It's not just thinking differently or talking differently or saying, okay, well, I like Trump today, I don't like Trump tomorrow. No, you have to change your whole way of life. People that you associate with, people that you hang out with, people that you talk to. You can't talk to the same people that you've talked to your past life, because the world doesn't work that way. I'll give you an example my own accountant. I go to my accountant and he knows who I am. He knows my situation with Donald Trump and about three days ago I spent about an hour and a half arguing with him because he was trying to explain to me who Donald Trump was. He's never met the guy, he's never spoken to him and he was trying to explain to me until his own wife had to come in and say hey, stop, jack, what are you doing? Lev knows the guy, he's not arguing and I'm sitting here telling you I'm not arguing with you about policy. I'm giving you an opportunity to ask me any question you want about what you really want to know about Donald Trump from somebody that knows him. I'll give you the truth what he did good, what he did, bad what I like, what I don't like go ahead. And he couldn't. He couldn't. This is my own account. He wanted to. All he wanted to do was explain to me how good Donald Trump was for us, how bad Joe Biden was, and nothing else. Right, nothing else. So I mean it's it's such a divided country we live in right now.
Speaker 2:I mean I could give you examples. I mean, yesterday we walked into a store and it was somebody. Recognized me and said oh, that's Left Partners. But the funny part is a lot of people don't even know my whole story. He recognized me and thought I was still Trump's guy and Giuliani was still my guy. And they ran up to me and saying this is Trump's guy, this is Trump's guy, and Giuliani was still my guy. And they ran up to me and saying this is Trump's guy, this is Trump's guy. I looked at the guy. I said what, what, what? What planner are you on?
Speaker 1:You know.
Speaker 2:So it's like it's. We live in a crazy world right now, jack.
Speaker 1:We do and and it's it's no longer or at least my experience of it has been it's no longer just adult-adult. For example, my 15-year-old son and we've had to have a lot of talks about how to handle it because of this. A couple of nights ago he and another buddy went to stay all night at another buddy's house and that evening they are all at the dinner table and the uncle, I think, was joining them and at some point he said now, this is a question he asked 15-year-old boys that don't even have their driver's license yet. He said I've got to ask, and I think maybe he had had a beer or two. Possibly I've got to ask who are you for? Trump or Biden, right? 15-year-old kids. Now, one thing that I've taught him to do is to ask this question Anytime he's asked anything on politics by somebody that's clearly MAGA and wants to engage, is to politely say clearly MAGA and wants to engage, is to politely say I'll be happy to have a debate with you if you can answer these two questions, and just two who is the current Secretary of State and the Secretary of Defense?
Speaker 1:And of the four times he has asked that question? The four times he has asked that question. All but one of them could not answer either question and one person was able to successfully answer the name of one of them. So what I'm teaching him is these are people who are following this ideology of a man who don't even have a basic understanding of our government and the people who are in our government and in key positions. So I think he's getting a much better understanding that these people are not informed, they don't know how things work, they don't care about how things work, they just want to do the MAGA thing, whatever that happens to be at any given time, whether that is boycotting Target or anything else it might be.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's like anything else being part of a group, part of a gang, part of a movement, part of you know it's, you know same thing. I mean, if you look at it, really it's now Biden or Trump, biden or Trump. It's like the Super Bowl. It's like what team are you? Are you like Kansas City Chiefs or did you like the San Francisco 49ers? It's ridiculous, like I mean. But that's the energy that you have.
Speaker 2:You're getting people that are supporting Donald Trump that have no idea what he's about, have no idea the mayhem. They are just listening to one-liners and they're being manipulated by the media, and again, not just Fox. I mean, I blame CNN and all of these other media because of the way they report and the way they try to use white gloves and the way they allow Trump to manipulate the timeline, allow Trump to manipulate what is being said. It's like they're scared of him and even to the fact that we've gotten to such a polar because you know, devin Nunes was the architect of suing everybody. So now all of these guys are out there suing everybody. So the media is so scared to get sued. They're even scared to write stories about facts because the facts are so outrageous, because, but it's facts and they still won't do it because they're scared to get sued by trump or giuliani or all these people. So it's ridiculous. It's where we don't have a media source today, unfortunately.
Speaker 2:Uh, you're right, people should be. You know, the way you should get your media is go out there and search it through different sources. You know, and it's hard to say, you know, find somebody you like, because anybody you like nowadays is polarized in their own, opinionated. You know it's hard to find a true media source without an opinion associated with it. Here's the facts. This is what happened.
Speaker 2:John killed Peter and it doesn't matter who was black or white, it doesn't matter who was Republican or Democrat. This was what happened, and the bad guy goes away, the good guy gets. Whatever it doesn't happen nowadays, I mean, if a crime happens, they take a look at who's the bad guy. If the bad guy happened to be a Democrat, I'm sure he ain't going to be on cnn, he'll be all over fox and vice versa. So you know, it's very, very difficult for a regular, uh, american citizen nowadays to, even though we have all of this mass media, social media, we have all of this uh, uh, uh, it and technology to be able to go, search and get everything. Unfortunately, because the way Trump has manipulated and used the media and used people in very high up positions and respectable positions to take over the media, and that's why right now, we don't have the truth. All we have is opinions, one side or the other.
Speaker 1:Let's drill down a little bit about Rudy Giuliani. I want to know a little bit about Rudy as a person because in working with him, of course there was the objective and there was that part of it. But I'm assuming you spent a fair amount of time with Rudy.
Speaker 2:I'm assuming you've spent a fair amount of time with Rudy.
Speaker 1:So out of the bullshit and you know, just guy talk, just talking about anything. Does Rudy actually believe this horseshit about stolen election or is Rudy just towing the party line and and and doing what he's doing?
Speaker 2:Uh, you know how do I properly tell you that? You know when, when, when you start doing a crime and when you, when you say, let me, let me put it, let me retract a little bit. When you say a lie long enough, you don't yourself don't know what the truth is. Already you start believing it. And when you start saying, and when the lie is imperative or important to your survival and you repeat it so many times, that becomes the truth and there's no. You know, you have again.
Speaker 2:It's like you know our brains are very powerful. It's like what you are. You have to understand if, all day long, you're repeating the same story how Biden stole this, how Biden took this, how Biden took and you don't talk about anything else your brain, you know, plus at his age already, and plus with all the medicine he takes, all the alcohol he drinks and all of that. I mean there's only so much capacity, you know, you're able to understand. So at this point, I truly believe that, yes, he believes it. I think you know he thinks Biden is a criminal, he thinks the world is against him, and I think this is a part of you know, mental problem. You know when a person gets to that stage, it's either because of alcohol, because of depression, because of whatever the reason it could be. But when you get into an illusional stage where you start believing, what's the difference? Believing that the election was stolen or believing that there's little green men running around trying to chase you, it?
Speaker 2:really doesn't matter. I mean because your mind is not there. And I think a lot of these people that are pushing this fake election, some of them are doing it obviously financial purposes, power purposes, yeah, but some of these people, and a lot of them, have gone to the extreme that they are so truly believing it and especially, you know some of the down the tier, not like Trump or on the top tier, but you know down the tier that they truly believe in they would probably go to their deathbed believing that you know of the corruption and the election was stolen and that Biden's not the president. Because, again, it's the mind is a powerful thing and I think a lot of these people you know we need to look at it the way it is what's the difference? If somebody you know has a bad day at work, it goes crazy, and you know it's the same thing here. Politics have driven people to a certain degree where they've lost their mind because they're starting to believe things that are not really true.
Speaker 1:Yes, Lev, what you just described is a perfect template for something that I've been involved with.
Speaker 1:I ran an oncology floor for the Navy at the San Diego Naval Medical Center many years ago and I was sent to learn medical hypnosis to be used with oncology patients who were in horrible pain and who had reached the limit of the narcotics and pain medications that they could be given, and I saw it work many times, and here's how I explain it.
Speaker 1:Many times and here's how I explain it, when someone was told you are no longer feeling pain in your abdomen, you are feeling a sensation that has a cloudy, almost pleasant feeling to it, almost pleasant feeling to it and when they would experience relief, there was still a part of their mind that knew the pain was still there, but there was another part of their mind that knew it had to be so fully invested in an alternative because the truth was so unbearable that they hopped the fence and pretended. If you will and a lot of people are afraid to use that word, but look, if you pretend something long enough, as you stated at some point, you wonder whether the result that you are getting is still pretending or if it's become real oh absolutely.
Speaker 1:And when you've reached that point does it really matter. Because the result is there.
Speaker 2:Exactly, and the feeling is the feeling and the result is the result. And you know, just to break it out, I mean in simple, you know, I do this trick with my kids, even to show them how powerful your mind is. If I put the cold water cold running water on and put a little steam in the background and sit there for like five minutes and tell you that is boiling hot, that is boiling hot, I guarantee you, when you put your finger to it, you will yank it quicker than you think and you will even feel a little pain, thinking that you burned yourself. Yes, I mean, simple as that. Our minds are extremely powerful and that's why the cult, that's why I talk about this cult environment. People have to really understand it.
Speaker 2:I'll give you a day in the life of a Donald Trump cult member so you can understand what it's like. You wake up in the morning, you're watching Fox or you're watching your right-wing media. You right away go on your social media to see what's happening with all of your you know Laura Loomers and all of the you know crazies out there that are, you know, streaming all of this information. You look to see all the exciting stuff because you know something had to have happened overnight. Donald Trump had to have done something. What are they after him now? What are they charging him with now?
Speaker 2:And you start getting and this is how your morning starts you start getting into it. You start calling your friends and people, workers around that have the same notions, and you're talking about the same thing. And then, sometime during the day, you're going to bump into somebody that's going to disagree with you and you're going to put out all your rage and everything you've known and listened to the whole day and you're going to give it to them. And then, after you're done with that person, you're going to talk about that argument you had with that guy and how stupid he is, how he can't understand, how Biden is the worst of the worst and the deep state's taking us over, and you're going to go home and you're going to talk about that with your wife and kids all night. And then you're going to sit down and watch Fox News and watch Sean Hannity, laura Ingalls, and that's a typical day. So you tell me where in that day that person, that mind of any of those people, has a chance to even get any other information to be able to reflect. And that happens.
Speaker 2:Reputation day in, day out, day in, day out, plus the emails, plus the text messages, and that goes on and on. Competition, day in, day out, day in, day out, plus the emails, plus the text messages, plus the, and that goes on and on, and eventually you don't know the and you have, you don't know the other side. It's like if you've never eaten steak or sushi, you do not know how it feels. It's like I always joke with my kosher friends They've never eaten lobster or shrimp. I'm like they're like I don't know how that is. I mean, I've never eaten it, so how can you? Same thing here If you don't know any other information and the only information you're getting, that's how you're going to live.
Speaker 1:And that's what they believe. Just had that experience last night. I ordered something. We had gone to a cafe and I ordered something and my wife said, oh, I don't like that.
Speaker 2:I said have you ever had it? And she said, no, I go through it every day with my kids. Like that, you know, try that. I don't like that. You've never tried it. Well, it doesn't look good. I don't think. But yeah, I mean. Those are great examples of how strong the mind is. But that's a day in the life of a Trump member. You know to be in that and you're all day looking for a confrontation to be able to get out all of this information that you're getting through. The day that you know the right wing media is pushing on you.
Speaker 1:Yes, and let me let me contrast that for you. As I've stated, eight out of 10 people in the county that I live in voted for Donald Trump in 2020, of the people that voted I'm on the other side of that, I literally have two good friends, two in the community that I can talk with, that I can go have coffee with, who are anti-Trump too. You think my wife and I get invited to parties or events. We do not.
Speaker 2:Oh, life's different.
Speaker 1:We are the outcast. So, unlike the person who is constantly having their message reinforced, unlike the person who is constantly having their message reinforced, I live in a place where the ideology and the structural belief system that I have is under constant attack. And I will say this I think it's a lifesaver in many ways have the interaction daily with hundreds of people on social media who were of like mind. I have to guess it would be much more difficult for me psychologically, absolutely Because I have found my people in cyberspace.
Speaker 2:Oh, thank God for that, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know. So the thing is so many of these people.
Speaker 2:What you're saying is so on point Jack, because a lot of people don't understand what it's like living in that type of a scenario. They think, oh yeah, you can live, but you're scared. You can't call the local sheriff because the local sheriff is a trumper. The local school board, everything everybody there is around you is local and you're scared to be you. And if you do speak out then you become an outcast. Then people start pointing fingers and if you have kids, then you have to worry. Your kids have to go to school because the kids of these parents, you know it trickles down Nowadays.
Speaker 2:I've never seen politics so well. My 10-year-old comes from school asking me questions about politics because kids in school are now talking about Trump, biden and things that are reflecting with Trump's court cases. It's crazy. So you know now you're in a position that you can't just live wherever you want to live in the United States. You have to live somewhere where the beliefs are like your beliefs because, if God forbid, you're going somewhere where I mean just think about it we live in the. I mean even in Russia, abortion is legal. We live in the United States of America in 2024, where today, I mean, in the state of Florida where I live, it's a six-week ban. Most women don't even know they're late six weeks. I mean it's ridiculous, so to be able to push that. And we're supposed to be a nation of the free. So how is that for you? Now you're telling us what to do, and that's the crazy part.
Speaker 2:The other thing a lot of people don't realize is the majority of the cult of Trump is people that never have traveled outside the United States. They've never been outside. They don't know what it's like, they don't know what effects are causing it. That's why they're screaming and saying America first. You know, because you know shut our borders down, bring all our troops back, forget about it. You know we don't want to be us down. Bring all our troops back, forget about it. You know we don't want to be. They have no idea, they have no understanding, because most of them haven't traveled outside their little community or outside their state or county.
Speaker 2:So, it's very, and when you don't have that experience to go out there and see the difference, you don't know. And that's the problem. Trump pierced into that group and the internet is now making it worse because now they're being cultinized through social media, because now, instead of going on social media to find other things and research, they're going on into echo chambers. That are even making it worse because now they're seeing oh my God, I'm in Kentucky and there's people in Florida and in Ohio that think just like me, I'm not the only one out here, we're all like that and they think because they're in this echo chamber. This is how everybody thinks.
Speaker 1:Which leads me to this question. Lev, I want your insight on this. Do you think this pivotal moment where we have arrived, do you think it would have been possible in the absence of social media?
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely not, I think. I think social media and technology is not only the greatest thing that's happened, but it's also the biggest downfall of us, because I think it's happened so quickly, too quickly, where we were not. Nobody was prepared for it. I mean, as parents, we weren't prepared with our kids how to even to oversee it. Our kids overtook social media and technology quicker than we did, and that's how can you oversee and parent something where they know more than you do so with the speed and technology that transpired?
Speaker 2:And same thing happened with criminals and authority. I mean, the criminals looked at the technology a lot quicker and used it by the time the good guys catch up to it and figure out how to catch it. Just think about all the damage is done, and that's a perfect example of 2016, 2000,. You know what was going on with the Russian corruption trying to interfere in our election, and that's one of the things I worry about now. You know, with this new AI business coming out there, where you can't tell voices apart, you can't tell videos apart, the number one thing again, with the cold environment, with the pushing of the fake narrative once you see something, it's a lot easier to see it.
Speaker 2:It takes 10, 20 times harder to unsee it or forget it. So if you put out an AI video I'm just saying to you of Joe Biden saying something crazy, and have 200 million people see it, even though 15 minutes later you could say it's fake, the damage is done and that's why technology, social media and also it's allowing these people to go into these communities where people maybe didn't have a voice and again, I'm not saying that you shouldn't have a voice but people that are out there spewing racism or diversity and stuff. I don't believe these people should have a voice on that. And these are the people that were the quiet ones because they were out there. And now social media and now technology has allowed them to sit in their little cabin in God knows where, to be able to now spread the word out to millions and millions of people and lies and disinformation, and it's become very difficult to control. Right, you can't control what's the truth, what's not the truth, what's you know it's.
Speaker 1:Here's something that I'll inject here that it's fascinating and it's how the brain works, and so people can see so many examples of this on a day-to-day basis. The brain does not process negation. So, for example, if I say Jack Hopkins is not a multimillionaire, the brain hears Jack Hopkins and multimillionaire. Okay, now the prefrontal cortex slices and dices and information. It hears Jack Hopkins is a multimillionaire. So, even though Jack Hopkins is not a multimillionaire, was the statement a month down the road? Two months down the road, our memory slips a little bit. Months down the road, our memory slips a little bit and somebody says, yeah, I heard that Jack Hopkins was a multimillionaire, and somebody who heard he is not a multimillionaire now remembers it as yeah.
Speaker 2:I heard that too. Yep, absolutely.
Speaker 1:So they use that in every interview. They do, except they don't use it necessarily in a positive way. Most of the time they will use it to cast doubt or to darken an individual, simply because they know the human brain remembers negativity much more vividly than it does positively. So we are you mentioned about. Somebody can be in a little cabin just about anywhere and doing their thing. There is allegedly this happened, I suppose, in the last three to four days there is a cyber terrorist who has been commissioned to target me. This came about because I was retweeting the post of an individual on Twitter who I will continue to retweet posts from them who is being sued by General Mike Flynn, and it seems as though people who retweet this guy's stuff, they get swarmed. Well, to say I've been swarmed is an understatement.
Speaker 2:I think I know the guy you're talking about. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:He's a good guy. Now, this is not something that happens by accident. This is not something that people get together a couple of weeks ago and decide to do. This is something that's been in place for months, if not years, these digital warriors, if you will. What does that tell us? And I guess we both know the answer, but, for our listeners, what does it tell us about what to expect in the coming months and this election? That there are people from around the world commissioned to destroy the messaging camera In Russia.
Speaker 2:So in 2015-16, they built it's almost like a city of literally IT guys and hackers and out there that are literally and I can't imagine to what extent it's extended to now in 2024, that are out there literally attacking our social medias all over the world, but particularly in the United States. Because the one thing for countries especially like Russia and these hackers, this election is more important than ever before, because never before have the criminals and the oligarchs and, you know, authoritarians out there had an opportunity to have their guy as the president of the United States. So you have to understand this is such a crucial time. I mean this is like so, yes, I mean I am very worried, you know, about all the ways that these shady characters, shady countries, are going to use technology, social media especially. I mean I see it every day.
Speaker 2:I watch these people out there, like the Jason Hinkles out there Jackson Hinkles, whatever his name is that have millions of followers that all they do is go out. There's a few lies and controversy to anything that the truth. They'll just come and bring the lie and people want to hear it and it appears in that market and Trump gave that market a huge voice that everything is contrary. I mean, it doesn't matter if you say it's black, they'll say it's white, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if you could show them video, it doesn't matter if you show them a picture. The picture's been audited, the video's been audited, this person's been paid, this guy's a traitor. Nothing, nothing you could tell them, and that's what you're dealing with right now. That's why it's extremely scary.
Speaker 1:It is On that. Let me ask you this I know a lot of people don't like to even hear this question asked because it scares them, but that's the very reason I think it's important for these things to be talked about, because that which we are scared of and put our head in the sand about we cannot prepare for. What's your feeling on the possibility and I'm in no way shape or form let me clarify I'm in no way shape or form saying I think this is going to happen or I'm predicting this is going to happen. No-transcript throw a surprise at us and say you know what? We're not even going to try and use the election to seize power. We're just going to seize power. We're going to use force. Now, maybe that comes post-election, maybe that comes prior to the election. Am I way off base when I say these are things that come to mind as very unexpected things? They could do like January 6th, where they catch us off guard, but on a much, much larger and violent scale. What do you think about?
Speaker 2:that. Well, you know what? Is there a fear of that? Absolutely, I mean, after what happened January 6th, and not only that, but watching what continuously happens, and you know, hearing Trump saying he's going to go pardon all of the January 6thers. And you know, with all of that rhetoric rhetoric giving you know, people again that feeling of, yes, we're going to be invincible, He'll protect us if we go out there and do this.
Speaker 2:If he gets into power, I don't think there'll be such a, you know, like, you know, uproaring of people taking up arms and trying to overtake one side or the other. I think we'll have other problems, much bigger problems than that, as crazy as that sounds. I think we'll have bigger problems than somebody trying to overtake, with you know, our country somehow internally, Because I think, as crazy as it sounds, I think we still have a lot of things in place that would prohibit that from happening. Could there be an uprising? A little bit here, a little bit there? Absolutely, but just as you see, you know, with the protests that we see in the colleges, when the time when the, when our troops are sent in to break it up, you know it gets broken up. Now, the dangerous part with that is, yes, you know, we don't know who Trump has in, you know, these reserves in the State Department, in the National Guard and because, like I said, a lot of the mega loyalists have infiltrated a lot of portions of our government and of our military. So in any coup and in any uprising, that's the biggest scare is, you know, having any of the people that control military or you know reserves or National Guard or stuff like that, to be on the wrong side.
Speaker 2:Because I think Trump is already just like he did in 2020 and he started back in 2019 by coming out and saying that the only way Biden can win this election is if it's stolen. Right, and I think once he loses and I really truly believe he's going to lose and once he loses, I think at that point that's when we might have the scariest part. And that's when we might have the scariest part because at that point there are a lot of people not so much Trump himself yeah, his life is on the line but a lot of people are so invested on such low levels in their local communities that have gone to such an extent that it's like all in, do or die that they won't have nowhere to go, they won't have nothing to fall back on. They won't be able to just live with themselves the next day. How do you wake up the next morning and say, okay, this never happened, Donald Trump never existed. Now we go back to life as normal. It doesn't happen.
Speaker 2:People are going to be and again, like I said, I feel that the majority of people that are cultinized it's some sort of a mental issue, because your mind is not working properly, because you're not rationalizing the way you're thinking. Not that I don't want to let them believe you have the right to believe what you want but when you're under that constant pressure and constant information, it's like sleep deprivation. Pressure and constant information, it's like sleep deprivation. It's the same thing. If we information deprivation, all of these will cause you to act irradical and act not proper. So, because of their actions right now, you know it's scary to think, because a lot of these people are going to wake up after November 6th or 7th, after the election is over, and they have nothing to do because right now this is all around. They've been fighting for eight years, Donald Trump. They wake up, they go on Twitter, they do this. What happens when it's all over? Where are their lives. They won't be able to go out there and spew anti-Semitic stuff and racist stuff and all the stuff that they're doing now that is being promoted and being pushed where they're even monetizing it. That's the crazy part. They're going out spewing all this stuff and monetizing it. That's going to stop eventually and that's the scary part, because all of these people are going to wake up and they won't have.
Speaker 2:You know, and I know that because I went through it when I went through the change, when I woke up that one day and said you know, I'm cutting all of this off.
Speaker 2:It's like your whole world starts.
Speaker 2:And it's one thing when you're 18, 19, where you're starting over, but when you're 50 or 60 or 40 or 30 and you got to start all over new friends, new this you're now embarrassed to go out, because you've been out there screaming all of this craziness and now you're realizing you were a nut for four years or you insulted all of your neighbors or you pissed off all of the people in school, or you know I mean you life then, you know, becomes difficult. That's what I worry about, where I I think we will see lots of different you know kinds of acts of. You know lone wolves and you know shootings and you know all kinds of because people are going to lose it, just like we saw what happened with covid. This is the same type of thing. It's a ticking time bomb. You have all of these people gearing up. I mean you could see just on a small effect what happens after, like a big Super Bowl or a Stanley Cup, where you know people destroy the streets, riot out of happiness and out of sadness.
Speaker 2:You know, that's just so same thing here, but the stakes are a lot higher. People are now going to such an extent where they're putting everything on it.
Speaker 2:Their livelihoods are riding on it. I mean everything in our country after the elections because, like they say, it has to get worse before it gets better and it's going to get a little worse before it starts getting better, because we're in a very. It's like that volcano that's about to erupt. In. The elections is when it's going to erupt and we'll see how the lava flows down and how quickly we could stop it and move on and rebuild.
Speaker 1:Fascinating how does Putin handle a Trump loss in 2024?
Speaker 2:very, very serious summer, where I think Putin is going to try to do anything in his world possible to distract the American people from Biden and make it worse, and not only in Ukraine.
Speaker 2:I believe he will finance wherever he can in the Middle East and anywhere else where he could make Biden look like the bad guy, and regular people are going to suffer. But when Trump loses, I think that's when we'll be at a sticking point where America is going to have to stand up, because I think that's when you'll see Russia put on an all-out blitz onto Ukraine and it will force us and NATO to, you know, stand up and give them the real help and support to fight back and destroy Russia once and for all and not Russia let me reframe, because you people are not at fault. We're talking about the crazies like the Putin and people that are running that, not the majority of the country. Once they could destroy that brain cell, but I think it's going to get, like I said, a lot worse before it gets better, not just for us here in the United States, but, I think, all over the world and especially in Ukraine with what's going on there.
Speaker 1:Tell me what a Russia without someone like Putin would be like In terms of as you've already stated, we're not talking about the very citizens of Russia.
Speaker 2:So, given that that's the case, let's just say that somehow, magically, putin was gone and there was. It's not just a person, it goes down the line. I mean, it's like over 100 years things have been in place and a lot of people are even used to it and, like you know, a lot of people in Russia miss communism, miss Stalin, miss, you know, because a lot of people like not worrying about bills, having no crime and just, you know, paying and just paying and being told what to do Some people. I remember my grandmother telling me how great it was. Life was good, you had no killings, you had no rape, the streets were clean, you had food. Yes, you couldn't go buy yourself whatever car you want, but you didn't want to because you didn't know. See, that's the whole thing. A lot of people don't understand. I mean you, you can't want to buy something or want to get something, want to do something when you don't know. And that's why when in 89 and 90, when the wall came down, that's why russians were so fascinated with even like blue jeans, like jeans, levi jeans. They were fascinated because they never saw it, they never knew it. So it was like, you know, a new thing.
Speaker 2:But, with that said, if they were ever able to get an opportunity, the people of russia would flourish just like we do in the united states. Their economy would be tremendous. They have such natural resources. I mean they have so much land and you know, they would be a a tremendous, tremendous and a wonderful place to be able to live and grow. I mean they have such beautiful sites, just like the. I mean it's a huge country. They have, you know, so many. I mean I think they have 10 time zones, even in the country yes, I have heard that.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, it's a vast amount of land, but it's again. You know, I don't see that happening too quickly because it's not just Vladimir Putin. You have a whole system in place that would have to crumble. And we had that opportunity in 1991 when Reagan and what's it called?
Speaker 2:Gorbachev had that deal and the walking down Yeltsin came down and America and the world had that opportunity to never allow this to happen and unfortunately we cut a bad deal. We closed our eyes and let them lie to us because the KGB still controlled, you know, still pushed people like Putin into power and, under the pretenses of them trying to build a democratic country and being, you know, what they were really doing is rebuilding and, you know, making a lot of money, sending their oligarchs all over the world to infiltrate all different countries with their natural resources and biggest economies and businesses and real estates, using their money to spread all over. I mean, that was all part of the master plan and waiting for that opportunity to again bring the Soviet Union back together. And that's what Putin's doing right now. He's trying to bring the Soviet Union back together, the plan that he started from the first day he went into office.
Speaker 1:Am I correct in saying that the KGB and or its equivalent is still very much alive, although it may wear a different costume? A?
Speaker 2:different name, Absolutely. I mean, yeah, they could have changed the name, but the bloodline of the KGB you have to understand it lives with Vladimir Putin. I mean, if you were just naive and didn't know anything else, or none of the other players, the head of Russia was the original child of the KGB. They nurtured him. He was I mean, you would think he would allow them to die. He just called it differently. Now it's called the FSB. Same motive, same system, same, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, how does this play out with Giuliani? Does he at 80 years old, does he start cooperating or does he fight this to the bloody?
Speaker 2:end. Yeah, he's going down. I mean, if you even take a look, he's been fired now from ABC's radio talk show. I mean I remember him talking about John like he was his best friend, like you know, and he gained the opportunity to get there. And now you see him going on the podcast scorched earth, you know screaming, you know at him. No, you got to understand.
Speaker 2:Rudy is done. I mean, he has nothing left. He has nothing to fall back to. There's no benefit whatsoever for him to come clean or tell, because he's burned so many bridges, so much scorched earth, that it's just his only choice and only chances to keep it going. And you know, at his age, you know I wouldn't put it past him thinking that you know, by the time they try to put me away, I mean, who are they going to put me? You know, I mean he's, and again, he believes wholeheartedly that Trump's going to win. And they I mean it's hard to explain to you, you have to be in it to understand it, but when you're in that environment, like you, you don't think anything else and they truly believe their own lies, their own nonsense, and that's why they're so strong and so united. That's why, when any one of them gets in trouble. They raise money like it's water. Like it's water, the money comes, you know, because they're so hard-headed.
Speaker 1:So and I guess that probably being at the core of it which thing is? If Rudy chose to cooperate, he's already burned so many bridges that even financially there is not a financial life for Rudy after the cooperation and after he's played his role there. There's no place else for him to turn to generate income. He can't grift anymore on the big lie.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Not only can he grift and lie, also who would believe him? I mean, he's lied so many times one way or the other and he's so complicit himself. Unless rudy had some tape recording or videotape of donald trump saying, yeah, I know this election is fake and we're gonna go push it anyway and I don't care and let's kill a couple of people. Unless he had something crazy like that, I don't think he would be even in a benefit.
Speaker 2:Any cross-examination of Rudy Giuliani look what happened with Michael Cohen and he's not as close to Rudy Giuliani. I mean I can't admit, I don't see his value of even. I mean we all know the whole world knows what Trump did. They have enough evidence, they have black and white. I don't see. Yes, I mean we all know the whole world knows what Trump did. They have enough evidence, they have black and white. I don't see. Yes, I mean, as people that are out there that are watching like television, for us it's a sensational thing, like it's like when Sammy the Bull Gravano turned on John Gotti. It was sensational. So we're looking at it the same way as like oh my God, who's closer? Rudy Giuliani, if Rudy Giuliani turned, oh my, I tell you honestly, I think if Mark Meadows turns, it's more dangerous for Donald Trump than.
Speaker 2:Rudy Giuliani, because you know Rudy was complicit in all of the stuff that. I mean the whole world knows. I mean it's out there, I mean it's out there.
Speaker 1:That was a question I was going to ask you because with Mark Meadows we have a different situation, even if just based on age, he's got. As long as no unforeseen accidents come his way, he is going to live a pretty good chunk of life from this point on. He's healthy as far as I know. So he's got that to look at, whereas Rudy I can only assume Rudy's not in the best of health and he's 80 years old, so he knows time is relatively short for him. Meadows has been, I suppose, as silent as anybody has been in this thing from day one. If we were reading the tea leaves, does that point to Meadows eventually cooperating or is that a clear?
Speaker 2:I think so. I think so. I've been saying it all. You know, even before, when people were talking about Rudy, even before Meadows got indicted and got ousted, I said Meadows is going to be the Sammy, the Bulgaran, not Rudy Giuliani. It's going to be Meadows because, like you said, he has a lot more to lose and he was not as involved and didn't have as much to gain as Rudy.
Speaker 2:Meadows was chief of staff. He was doing his job. He had his own political career. He was a congressman prior to that. He was trying to use that and ride those coattails to whatever he was going to go on. He wasn't going to try to hook his camp to Trump for the rest of his life. Rudy was riding Trump's coattails.
Speaker 2:So Meadows just got caught up in such a thing where he really stood by a little too long and waited to see how this plays out with Trump until Georgia's what really screwed? Because Meadows was talking with the federal. You know he spoke with Jack Smith. He already started helping them out. He's already given them some testimony in the Jack Smith case.
Speaker 2:What really screwed Meadows and is screwing him even more now is Arizona, is the state charges, because I think Meadows where he screwed himself up.
Speaker 2:I think he was playing, working on a deal with the feds and that's why he was, you know, testifying in front of the grand jury, gave them certain testimony playing that deal. But when Fannie Willis in Georgia and now Arizona indicted him. Now it's a totally different ballgame and it's a lot harder now to cop a plea, because now you have to do a not international but like a circular plea where you have to get other agencies, other states involved, and now you have feds and states involved and it becomes very difficult to try to now coordinate a plea of what. You understand what I'm saying to you. So Meadows has got himself into it, but I think out of all of them, meadows has the best chance of getting off by cooperating Right, because he knows where the bodies are buried. He knows exactly what transpired, everything on January 6th. He knows what happened with all of the stuff that left the White House when Trump was leaving. He was part of packing it and part of involving that.
Speaker 1:So yeah, I agree, and I was part of packing it and the part of involving that. So, yeah, I I agree, and and I don't know if this is accurate or not but with meadows I mean meadows, the bad guy. Look, he did what he did, but I always kind of had the feeling that, out of anybody, meadows was always the one that while he was doing what he was doing and enabling, he was also kind of going oh man, I am getting myself into a world of shit that he was kind of of two minds. But, like you said, he was already so invested in it and wrapped up in it that he just chose to keep doing it.
Speaker 2:But would you agree that he was- yeah, I definitely would say Meadows was more like a Kevin McCarthy than more than a Matt Gaetz or a Marjorie Greene. Meadows is the typical Lindsey Graham, kevin McCarthy guys that were in office before, thought they knew the system, knew how to play it, but then got caught up with Trump and got overtaken by Trump and then got caught up in some stuff where they had no way to go back and could only go forward and hated it, didn't want it, didn't love it, but had no choice to try to continue to push their own financial or political gains. And that's what Meadows, lindsey Graham, kevin McCarthy and others do. But then you got the others. Like you got the Moscow Marge, you got the Captain Venmo, matt Gaetz.
Speaker 2:You know, these guys are totally different. They don't belong in Congress. They're just, they're literally puppets of Donald Trump and they probably wouldn't be there. You know, marjorie definitely probably wouldn't be there, you know, in Congress if Trump wasn't there and she would have nothing to speak about, because all they speak about all day long is either Joe Biden or Donald Trump. You know, corruption, I mean. There's nothing else they talk about, they don't have policy, nothing. So, you know, but those but yeah, meadows, I would say is like he was probably an unwilling participant Willing in some sorts, unwilling in others, but participating because of his. The bottom line is look, they all have greed power. That's what they all want and that's why they cross the line. Some cross it more than others, but at the end of the day, that's what it's all about. They want the power, they want to retain, they want the money, the finance, the power, and they try to do it. But they think they're smarter than the other guy and they could get away with it.
Speaker 1:Yes, and that's what we have. That was my read on Meadows. He seemed incredibly vulnerable because he did want to bask in that glow of Donald Trump. He wanted to be in that limelight, and it's not that he didn't know what the consequences would be, but he decided at some point he was going to make that trade and take that chance. When we look at people I've got a list here I'm just going to read off the names and if you have any, hey, jack just quickly.
Speaker 2:I didn't know how long the podcast was going to go. Uh, I thought it was an hour because I have another one. No, that's great if we could. We could do another one or parts or whatever you want. I'm always will you. I'm just saying because I had, I didn't. I have a 315 and it's 309. I just realized, no I.
Speaker 1:I kind of had you on with the idea that I would just go as long as you wanted to, and if you're at a point where you need to wrap up, we'll wrap it up, and I want you to know I will be asking you again down the road.
Speaker 2:Absolutely Jack.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, I'm there with you. The insight.
Speaker 2:So let's just wrap this up and, by the way, I'll tell you that there's some things that are about to break, really big things that have to do with, like, the biden laptop and stuff like that. I'm involved with that. I'll definitely come on and we'll we'll do a nice show beautiful, beautiful.
Speaker 1:Okay, before we go, I want to tell everybody again, because I've had Lev on a prior episode Soon, as you stop listening, watching this, buy his book Shadow Democracy. If you like the first episode, if you like this episode, you're going to like the book and the book. Naturally, when you write a book, you go through it in a much more organized and linear fashion, so it's going to fill in some holes that we will inadvertently skip over when we're doing the podcast, but at the same time, the podcast episodes are probably going to go in some areas that the book didn't cover. So you listen and watch and read Lev, I want to thank you for coming on and we'll be back doing a third episode soon.
Speaker 2:Thank you, jack, thank you for having me and keep up the good fight and I definitely will be out, thank you.
Speaker 1:Have a great day, all right, bye-bye Lev.