Episode 8-More Parts of My Story

In this episode  I share my friend Amber's podcast episode interviewing me and telling my story. I share parts of my story I have never shared before and dive deep into the parts of me that brought me to where I'm at. 

Follow Amber and her incredible podcast "Life of a Lotus" here: 

https://open.spotify.com/show/5cW4olfdADoMr4XWCeplEj?si=aqp_4EZlQdup8tRw4IHiSQ&preview=coverart

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/life-of-a-lotus/id1722532104


Her instagram: 
https://www.instagram.com/bamboo2187?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet&igsh=ZDNlZDc0MzIxNw==

And be on the lookout for next week's episode on here where she shares her story, its super inspiring so don't miss it! 

Instagram: 8thwonderdesigns
Shop 8th Wonder: www.8thwonderdesigns.com

Transcript

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Hello and welcome to the eighth wonder podcast inspiring you to be proud of where you're at one story at a time. I'm your host Ashley. Let's get started. Welcome to episode eight. today's episode is a little bit different. I had the opportunity to be on a friend's podcast and tell my story recently, and I'm going to be releasing that on my podcast as well. her name is Amber and I am going to link her podcast in the Information down below. So you should go listen to her podcast. It's amazing and I'm super excited because she's actually going to be my guest next week and we're going to get to tell her story and that will be released on my podcast, on my podcast as well as on hers. So this will be a fun little thing that we're doing together and I'm so excited for you guys to listen. A lotus is a flower rooted in the mud that rises through and above to become a beautiful bloom. This is a podcast sharing mine and other stories of how we've done the same. Choosing to rise above our circumstances to bloom. I'm your host Amber. Let's get started. So this is my friend, Ashley. Or not wait, Oh my gosh. I have to tell you something in my mind. You are a Stephanie. Oh, really? I don't know why that's interesting. It's just always been that way. So you know how in your mind, when you're worried, you're going to say one thing. So you keep telling yourself to not say it that way. And then you end up saying it that way. Yeah. So I was like, this is Ashley. I mean, wait, did I say the wrong name? Um, we know each other through gentle warrior. I feel like half of this podcast is just like, let me interview every single gentle warrior because everyone's a bad ass, right? Um, but yeah, so that's how we know each other through gentle warrior. Uh, you've been in it from the beginning, right? Yeah. Joined in January. Yep. And then. Now we're on our second year. Yes. I love it. And what I love the most, I felt like this was like perfect timing is you started, just started your own podcast and clothing brand. Yep. Do you want to talk a little bit about those and then just tell your story and behind all of that? So I don't think like it's been super clear. Cause it's kind of confusing, like the brand idea with the podcast. I think it goes perfectly. It makes sense to me. Thank you. Yeah, I love that. I think people are, some people are confused, so I'll just touch on that a little bit. Um, so I do the same type of podcast as you, just people telling their story and then how they've overcome. And then we, I partner with one of my really good friends. Who's an amazing artist. And we design, we create a designer on their story and then we put on a shirt and then we put it on my website for sale. So there's two right now, but there'll be a lot more to choose from eventually. And this is one of them. Yes. Thank you for wearing it. It's so comfy. I know they're the best and they wash super well. Yeah, they're nice. So the name of your podcast and your. Clothing brand is eighth wonder. Yes. Don't tell the story behind that. Yeah. So, um, I had a friend over one day and we were talking about some hard things I was going through with my family. And she like looked me in the eye and she was like, you're the freaking eighth wonder of the world. And I literally started crying. Cause I was like, that is the sweetest thing. Like anyone's ever said to me. And it humbled me a little bit. Cause I'm like, well, there's a lot of people that are eighth wonders. Right. And that's the whole purpose of my. Podcast is to like interview the cycle breakers and the eighth wonders of the world. And so that's where the name came from. And it just meant so much to me actually got it tattooed on my arm as like a reminder to continue to strive to be who I am and to not let things get in the way of that. Yeah. So I love that. I love that. This is what I love about the people that I get to talk to. And especially where you're actually taking action on it because you also see how important it is that people see the beauty in their journey and recognize like how far they've come. I think we forget that sometimes to look back and be like, Holy shit. Yeah. I'm a whole different person. Look at what I've actually accomplished and kind of pat yourself on the back for that because you deserve it. Yeah. Like my tagline is be proud of where you're at because I think we do forget. Like we get stuck in the, like, we're striving to do more and we forget to like, be like, look at where I'm at. Like I have overcome so much, you know? Yeah. So I think that's really cool. I agree. I, one thing that I didn't know about you and I thought was really great. So you had your launch party, which was so beautiful and you got up and you said, That a year ago you were so anxious. You couldn't even make a phone call to make your kids appointments. Yeah. I hated talking on the phone. And that's like something like that, I think is again, sometimes we forget and we have a hard time looking back, but that's a huge milestone to be able to look back and be like, Whoa, yeah, I am so different. Totally. Okay. So do you mind just like talking a little bit about that and then just we'll jump into your story a bit. Cool. Um, so I. grew up really anxious. I can talk about that, like where that came from when I talk about my story. But, um, and then like the older I got, the more anxious I got, it just got worse and worse. And so. I like, I had been told as a child, like even in high school that I wasn't good at talking on the phone. Like that was a story that someone told me and I believed it. Yeah. Um, and so I would always get like really anxious whenever I'd have to make a phone call and I would like stumble over my words and not be able to speak or like get anxious and freeze, like just awful and just like intensified when somebody told you that. Totally. And then when texting came out, it was like, Oh, this is an easy way out. Like let's just text, you know? And so I got comfortable with that. And didn't make a lot of phone calls. And I was even scared, like I said before, like to call my kid's doctor and schedule a doctor's appointment. Like I would literally get on the phone and be like, hello. And like, they would say hello back. And I'd be like, click. And then I would call my husband and be like, you can do it. Like I can't, it was just ridiculous to where they recognize you as a lady that just likes to say hello. She's just lonely. She wants to say hello. That's so funny. I didn't even think of it like that, but that's really funny. Yeah. So I just was so anxious. And I've. Um, you know, combated that my whole life. And so I've, it's a huge milestone to be on a podcast, hosting like all the things, it's just crazy. And put yourself in front of so many people. Yeah. I think not just putting yourself in front of so many people, but telling your story in front of so many people. Cause like the thing is, is I can get up and talk about burritos all day long to get up and talk about something that's so personal things that I've had to fight through and really push my way through. Yeah. Um, Even before, uh, the growth journey that I was on, like. Was scary. Totally. To be vulnerable in front of people is like, uh, especially cause we're taught as kids not to do that. Like, well, I was anyways, taught to not show your emotions, not be vulnerable. And so it feels like it's a weakness and then you learn, wait, no, this is actually strength and it helps people feel less alone. Exactly. And even now, like I'll catch myself sometimes, I think I told you about this where, um, I had another, we had a play date and there was another, the mom came over, I'd never met her. And so I had like, we didn't have any rapport whatsoever. This is our first time meeting. And she asked me a question about her family. And I was like about my family. And I was like, you know what, I'm just going to be honest. And if she can't, if it's hard for her to, Hold that, then that's fine. Yeah. And I was vulnerable and just honest with the way that my family is in the way that I grew up and it like opened the door for her to be vulnerable. I could see like the wall come down and all of a sudden she's sharing things with me that usually people don't share on their first meeting. Yeah. That's so beautiful. Beautiful. Yeah. And you didn't have any expectations. You were like, whatever. Like if she can't hold it, that's okay. But I'm still going to share. Cause it feels. True to me. Right. Exactly. Yeah. It's gotten to the point where I think before it was, and tell me if you feel this way too, when you were talking to people for me, it's like, It's easier for me to adjust it just enough to where it's not a lie, but it's not the complete truth and then everybody feels comfortable. I feel comfortable and they feel comfortable because I don't feel, I don't know this person well enough to know if I can tell them the whole truth. And then later on, as I would get to know people, I would backtrack and be like, well, actually, this is what happened. And in that instance, it was almost like it felt more constraining and For me to do that versus it felt more freeing and less like, what's the word? Um, like claustrophobic, I guess. Yeah, that's good for me to just tell the truth of what really happened. Yeah. Instead of holding yourself back and putting yourself in a box, it's like, actually let me share and make you comfortable enough to share as well. Exactly. And that's what I love. Like, I love people's stories. They've made me. Feel comfortable enough to share my story and then to like grow further, you know, it just creates this like atmosphere of vulnerability. That's like really cool. Yeah. Well, and I think it's great too, because I think in our group of our gentle warrior group, it's become the expectation of it's a safe space where I, we feel safe enough to be vulnerable and. We laid the groundwork for, that's just how we are. That's how the conversation goes. Everybody is vulnerable. And I think that for people outside of that group, because we have this whole group that we can be that way with, for people who don't have that group, it's like set the, we're creating this comfy little place of It's okay for you to be vulnerable, which is what we needed at one point. Yeah, totally. We did. Yeah. It's changed my life. People being vulnerable with me. And it's almost like the more that I'm vulnerable about little things. I don't know. I just feel like we all, all of us, when we started to tell our stories, we like put the little feelers out and like waited for the room to react and everybody was just so loving and understanding that it was like, okay, I can do this. Jump into this. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. So amazing. So, sorry, I keep saying this, but like, I keep interrupting you, but go. No. I actually was listening to your podcast this morning and I text you earlier in the week where I was like, I just realized how much I don't know about you. Yeah. So you're originally from Illinois. Yes. I'm from a tiny little town in Illinois. Okay. Um, 1600 people was the population. I had like 60 people in my graduating class. Tiny hated it. Everybody knew everybody. Um, bullying was very rampant in my high school. Um, there were like well to do people and then the other people. Um, and so that was interesting. That's definitely a part of my story. Um, I grew up and my biological dad left when I was two. Um, yeah, I don't really tell, I haven't told a lot of this part of my story, but why not? Right. So he left when I was two, um, lots of abandonment ones there that I didn't even realize till like this year. Um, because my stepdad came in when I was like three and he married my mom when I was four. So he's my dad. Like that's who I've always known as my dad. And he had two sons that he brought into the marriage. They're older than me. Um, and we grew up in this tiny little town. My dad was a police officer. My mom had a daycare, um, and I had like a seemingly normal childhood. Um, however, my mom was raised in a really hard. Environment growing up. Um, and she came to adulthood with tons of wounds of not loving herself of not, and she couldn't hold that for herself, let alone her daughter. And so she didn't teach me. How to love myself, how to like feel my feelings. It was like, no, don't do that. Go to your room, stop crying. You know, like no fault of her own. She just didn't know any better. Which honestly I think is very, very common of showing kind of how we mentioned before of showing those emotions, like Stop crying. Where are you crying? Yeah. And crying private. Don't cry in front of other people. Yeah. It's just like that generation. It's how they grew up. They didn't know any better and they didn't have the tools that we have or the access to the internet or all the things, you know? Yeah. And so she just, there was a lot of generational trauma that got put onto me. Um, and then, um, I was actually sexually abused as a child, but I actually didn't know at the time. Like I, my brain had blocked it out and I actually didn't remember until I married my husband. So, it's interesting growing up, there was always like this feeling of, I'm broken, there's something wrong with me, I felt something inside of me, but I didn't have access to what it was. Um, and so, like I went to high school and I was bullied really bad in high school. Um, in fact there's an incident where like I got locked in the bathroom and I was like sobbing because I couldn't get out. Someone locked you in the bathroom? Someone locked me in the bathroom. Wow. Um, and like, I couldn't get out. We had like a bathroom in the hallway and it was like separate from the other bathrooms and they like locked me and barricaded me in. Um, people like swiping books off my desk, telling me I was ugly as a dog, like just awful, awful, awful things. Wow. Um, and because it's a small town, like, When somebody starts treating you that way, people join in because they want to be popular and they don't want to be the, the person that's getting bullied. Right. It's like, let me join in. So I don't be the target. So I had a huge target on my back. Um, and at that age, yeah, you, if it's one person, it's like, Oh, what's wrong with that person. But when more and more people are joining in, it's like, it must be true. Yeah. And then at home, when you're having a really hard time at home, Like you're having a hard time at home with your feelings. You're not telling your parents you're being bullied. So you're crying yourself to sleep at night. Like I was just, it was awful. And, um, it's interesting because I like, I don't know. I, like you said, I started to think like, what's wrong with me. And because I'd already had that feeling of like brokenness inside because I was sexually abused and I couldn't access the memory. Yeah. Um, I was, I had such a huge target on my back because I would instantly, like I was so sensitive. I would sob and like, that's what they wanted. They wanted to break me down. And I did like, I didn't play their game. I just was like, well, I did play their game because they wanted me to cry and I would, and I couldn't hold it in. And so I was like the weak sensitive girl that everybody could make fun of. And it was just awful. Um, and since then I've had some of them reach out and apologize. And I'm like, it's been interesting. And like, it's okay. Like you didn't know any better. Like you were in high school, right? We're all trying to be cool. And like, It's fine, but it did, it was hard. Yeah. It was really hard to grow up in that environment and to have like at home, I couldn't show emotion. And so it was just like this awful inside. Like, honestly, I several times thought about committing suicide. Um, I never got to the point where I like planned it or, but it was definitely a thought for sure of like, I need to escape this, you know? Yeah. It was just really hard. Um, and then I moved on to college and I had like an abusive boyfriend in college. Um, very physically abusive. Um, we were in, this is like a silly story, but we were in a Buffalo wild wings one time and some guy was like checking me out and he flipped the table. My boyfriend like flipped the table and was like screaming because some guy checked me out as if you have control, right? Like he wouldn't let me wear makeup, like controlled what I wore. Just very controlling. Wow. Very abusive. Um, when I broke up with him, he threatened to commit suicide and came to my house and was like throwing our pictures in the, in the driveway, like breaking the glass. And my dad had to go out and be like, uh, dude, I'm a police officer. Get out of here. Yeah. So just like crazy. It was just interesting for sure. Did you still live at home while you were going through college? Um, so I, yeah. I did at this time. So I went away to college and I only lasted a semester. Too much trauma, too much stuff. Like I could not cope even just with anything. Cause then you're on your own and so much time to be in your head without what's familiar. Yeah. And like trying to, and I was making straight A's, but I was like partying and like trying to forget my feelings and you know, just like what some people do. And so I moved back home, um, and went to college back home closer and stayed at home. Yeah. So then that's when I was dating the abusive boyfriend. What finally got you out of that relationship? Um, really just like, you know, I was so broken and like, so broke down, but I was terrified of him. And like, like he punched a car, went and punched my car one time. And it looked like a deer had hit it. Like the dent was so big and I was just like terrified of him. I was even scared to break up with him, but I was like, my dad's a plea. Like I can, I have some protection here. Yeah. So that helped for sure. Um, but that was it just like, he broke me down so much that I was like, uh, I've got to get out of here. Yeah. What am I doing? Kind of like a wake up call of like. I'm just perpetuating like everything I don't want. Yeah. I'm perpetuating how I feel inside. Yeah. I felt it's like I wasn't enough and I was perpetuating that. Yeah. I was with someone who didn't think I was enough and who was on the outward side treating you how you were already treating yourself on the inside. Yeah, totally. Exactly. That's huge though that you were able to take a step back and recognize that. Yeah. And also I'm glad that you ha felt like you had that safe. Um, and then I met a boyfriend that was Mormon and I joined the Mormon church and, um, so your parents weren't Mormon. No. Okay. And I'm not anymore, but I was, I joined the church. Um, and honestly, looking back, like one of the big reasons I joined is I was looking for something, somewhere to fit in. Right. I wanted somebody to love me I was like, somebody please love me, like love me for who I am. And I got that, like, I am actually really thankful for the church and what, like the part it played in my life for that time, because it did bring me to Nick and it brought me to like, it brought me to my husband. It brought me. To where I'm at now. Yeah. So I'm really thankful. How old were you when you? I was 20 when I joined. Yeah. I will say, like, I have an appreciation for religion. Religion played a big role in my life as well. And it served a purpose for a time. And when I was done with it, I was done with it. Yeah. Um, and it, it wasn't that quick of me leaving, like I'm done. Bye. Yeah. It was a whole process, but. Same thing. I have an appreciation for the purpose that it served in my life and the sense of community and family that it provided for me that I had never experienced anywhere else. Yes, exactly. So when people say like they join a church, especially later in life, it's like, okay, it's that sense of community. It's that family and acceptance. And yeah, I totally get it. Yeah, it was, it was like super comforting. And, um, It was that way until it wasn't right. Like eventually you hit like the ceiling of like, actually now it's constricting me instead of helping me grow where I was just like anxious and didn't anyway, it doesn't matter. But so then anyway, I met Nick, um, he had served a mission in Idaho. He's also a convert. He joined in his twenties as well. Um, his family's Baptist. And so they had a hard time with that of course. Um, so he joined and, um, He served a mission and there was a missionary that was on his mission that came home to my ward and was like, Hey, I met this guy that has a really similar story. You should look him up. So I did. Nice. And I looked him up on Facebook, Facebook dating. That's our story. Um, I just reached out and was like, Hey, this Matt told me that you were really cool. Like let's be friends. And I really was just trying to be friends with them. Yeah. And it just progressed really fast. Like he came to see me, we were engaged three months later, married three months after that, like Literally from six months of meeting, we were married. So wait, how long had you guys been talking before you met? Like a couple of weeks. Oh my gosh. So basically like six and a half months, seven months of first conversation to marriage. Yeah. Okay. That's fast. It's so fast. It's like the culture, right? Like it was part of the, like, that's what we were told is like, get married, have a family, do this. And so we did, we were like, okay, we'll do that. Yeah. Um, and looking back, I'm actually really thankful that we did it that way, especially cause we viewed marriage as eternal. And so it was like this thing that we were never going to give up. And I honestly, like, I can't say, but I honestly don't know if we would have stayed together if we wouldn't have had that perspective. So I'm so grateful for it, but we got married and shit hit the fan. Like, I was suddenly safe. Like he is so safe. He's so amazing at like holding space for me and letting me have my emotions. And I was like, this is what safety feels like. Well, let me let it all out. Right. Like so bad, but I just like vomited all my trauma, like all over him. He's like, Oh, okay. He's been incredible, but it was so hard because it was like, Because right after I married him is when my, I remembered my sexual abuse. Actually, I started having these weird flashbacks and I was like, what the, this did not happen. What is this? Yeah. Literally. I like, didn't believe it. I was like, I made this up. Like, what is this? Was this a dream? Like so crazy. Yeah. Um, So I actually contacted some people that were in my memories. Um, and they've like put the valid, validated, validated, like what is that validity? They validated that it happened. Um, and then I went to a therapist and I was like, you know, this, I've had these memories pop up and she's like, We talked a lot and she's like, no, it's real. Like you are like having physical responses. Like this is not, you can't fake this stuff. You wouldn't have these physical responses from a dream. Yeah, yeah, totally. Um, and so struggling with like intimacy with my husband, like not even wanting to be touched, like he would come up behind me and I was like, Like in fight or flight all the time, because it was like, it just came out of nowhere, but it started making sense. I was like, okay, this is why I felt so weird in high school, like so broken. Like I knew there was something and I just kind of access it now that I was finally safe with my husband. It was like, let's show you so you can heal it. And also. In the moment, your body and your brain were just keeping you safe to block those out for so long. Totally. And now you were somewhere where you had a support that you, your, your brain and your body were like, all right, here we go. Yeah. Open the book. Thank you. Was not ready for that. Sliding it across. Yeah, totally. Um, and it was really hard cause a lot of people didn't believe me. Like a lot of family members were like. You would have remembered. It's too horrible. Like you would have, there's no way you would have forgot that. Just didn't understand. They just didn't understand how, what was Nick's response? Nick believed me a hundred percent. He was like, this makes so much sense. Like, yeah, it made so much sense for our intimacy, for the way I was with him, for me being like, Oh, I hate being touched. I don't hate being touched. But at the time I thought I hated being touched because I was like, Oh, So much trauma, like every time I would be touched, it was like this trauma response. And my body would like literally tense up and freeze. And so just, he was amazing. Um, but he was like, you need to get help. Yeah. Obviously. This can't be all the time. Yeah, totally. And so I started going to counseling, which was helpful, but it only goes so far. Right. Talking about what you went through only goes so far. Right. And so I always say I had this like innate. Like part of me that knew that I wanted to like, be better. And when I say be better at the time, I didn't know any better. And I was like constantly seeking like something to help me fix, fix myself. Right now I know better. Now I'm like, it's about like sitting in my body, sitting with my feelings, letting myself feel that slowing down, like all of those things. But at the time it was like, what's next? What can I do? What I was constantly looking for something to like fix. Yeah. Um, and that only goes so far too, because then you had a wall and you're like, Oh. I actually have to feel this stuff. Yeah. It doesn't get to just be swept under the rug. Exactly. And I don't remember if it was you, I think it was you actually, it might've been somebody else of like, for healing to happen, you can't just go around a topic or go over a topic and, and say, blah, blah, blah happened. I'm healed. Yeah. You have to truly, like you said, go through it and feel the emotions. The only way to heal is through. Yeah. Yeah. It's that's it. Like I had so much anger, so much anger and really it was grief, but it presented itself as anger. Right. And I was not allowing myself to feel that, like it would come out sometimes like the anger would come out and Nick would be the, Like the sad bystander of that. Like I would scream at him and like say her really horrible, hurtful things because it was like, this anger has to go somewhere. And it would just like bubble and then just like come out. Yeah. Did he, do you think that he recognized that that's where it was coming from? So he's been incredible at knowing like he if you ask him, he'll always say I saw who you were deep down I knew that wasn't you like I knew who you were at your core. Yeah, I just knew that wasn't like coming from who you are It's just not in character for you And I'm not an angry person like that some of that doesn't even mind some of that is generational trauma for sure Yeah, but yeah, he's been really great at knowing the whole time I think that's part of why we're still together is because he gave me the benefit of the doubt and he knew You That I could get through it. He saw the true you. Yeah, that's beautiful. I love that. Yeah. So you went through therapy and realize that there was more, you're grasping at different things. What was the next step for you? Um, so I did some like EMDR. That was really hard for me because you have to have, well, the one I went to, you had to have specific memories and I have so little memories of my childhood. It's just flashes. It's just flashes and they're really minimal. And she wanted like a lot of information that I couldn't give. Yeah. And so I felt a lot of time like. Almost like imposter syndrome of like, do I have to make, like, I don't know how to like tell you any more than I know, you know? And so it was just kind of uncomfortable. Um, so I quit doing that. I did like acupuncture. I tried like literally if you name it, I've tried it. Yeah. And then what has been the most healing for me is like, Gentle warrior. Yeah. Like having this community of women that are safe, that love me no matter what, that love me more when I tell them all the shit about me, they're like, it's okay, we love you. And I'm like, uh, you do. And here's the thing that I love about that is it's not, I love you because you're telling me all of the dirty, douchey details of your past. Please tell me more. It's, I love you because you're being so vulnerable and putting yourself Through feeling all those, um, feeling all those emotions again and appreciating what that's doing for you and what that means as far as if you're willing to go through that to grow, we're here to hold you through that. That's, I love that about this group too. It's so beautiful. I think like, That's why I'm so passionate about like helping people tell stories is because it really is what heals. Like it's what's changed my entire life. Like having that group of women be like, actually, it's so relatable. You don't feel alone anymore. I felt so alone. Yeah. And like, nobody gets this. Like you're, you know, you get in like a victim mindset of like, I'm so alone. Nobody understands us. Nobody's been through what I've been through. Like, yeah. And then you meet all these people and they tell their stories and you're like, Oh my gosh, like you're incredible. Yeah. You know, it just gives you a different perspective on humanity. And then it gives you a different perspective on yourself where you're like, actually I am badass. Yeah. I did get through this, you know? Well, and I, it's not, I think in the past when I have opened up to friends. Um, and they were being supportive in the way that they knew how to be supportive, which I love and appreciate. But the difference is they're not blowing smoke up your ass and they're not telling you that you, Oh, you're the victim. You're the victim. You're the victim. They're a shit bag, blah, blah, blah, blah, whatever. They're very honest about it of recognizing like the emotions, the actions and helping you see. The other perspective of what was the other person feeling and going through and learning to have appreciation for different parts of it. It's just this full, all encompassing growth and a different version of support. Yeah. And it's so badass because it's like, To heal, you have to like see your part in it. Like you have to know the part you created in your story. And I've never been able to see that until I had all these women be like, let me be a mirror for you. Let me be a safe place where if you're feeling triggered, let's talk about it. Yeah. Let's not hide. Let's not like, Be really sweet and like catty, like mean, catty talk about the person bad. Like, let's actually look at your part in it and let's talk about that and see where we can get, and it's gotten me so deep. Yes. I'm like, Whoa, I did not know I could go this deep. Well, touching on that, actually. So at the last retreat that we had, one of the girls, I was kind of nervous to be her roommate because I had all of these emotions about, Oh my gosh, she's been growing so much and she's. vocal about it and everything. And I don't know, just very. Some insecurities and some irritation that I didn't understand. And the first night she's like, Amber, can I be honest with you? I was like, yeah, she's like, you trigger the fuck out of me. And I was like, me, you're like, save me, save me. And it was so cool that she took that first step. Cause like we talked about, it just takes someone taking the first step. Right. And, um, her taking that first step and being vulnerable with me and telling me how she felt. Gave me the permission within myself to be like, actually, I feel the same way. And here's why. And in any other situation, if somebody would have been like, I don't like you, it would have been one left at that. Yeah. Nobody would have been feeling out why or figuring out their emotions around it. But then it was like, let's, let's dive in. Let's figure this out together. Yeah. It was so cool. And then the rest of the weekend, every time we'd come back to our room, we'd be like, I just realized something else about it. And then when someone said this, and it ties into what we were saying and how cool is this? And it was just such a bonding experience. It made coming back to our room. It was like a whole extra retreat. Yeah. That's so cool. It was really cool. That is way cool. But again, another thing that I love about these friends is that we're willing to like look at each other and say, Hey, this is hard. Yeah. Let's talk about it. Yeah. And I think that's, what's missing from most friendships or relationships is like, it's easier to people, please. It's easier to pretend like everything's okay, but there's no growth there. There's no healing there. There's no like deep connection there. Yeah. And the deep connection comes from the hard work of looking at each other and being like, you trigger me. Oh, let's talk about that. You know, it's so bad. Let's figure out why I feel this way. Yeah. So that's totally changed my life is having that circle of people that I know I can count on and that love me anyway. It taught me to love myself anyway. Yeah. Like they loved me and held me before I knew how to love me or hold my myself, you know? Yeah. Gave you that permission, I guess you could say. Totally. Um, what has it been like, so now you've had those memories, you're working through how to process some of those. How has that And I remember you said that some people didn't believe you in the beginning. How has this affected your relationships with either the people who were involved or where you had conflict? Cause it's been a little while since you've realized all that. Um, it's been off and on. Um, I think people can only meet you where they're at. And so I have great, I give grace in that. Like I understand that people are only Can only meet you where they're at. Mm hmm. And so I truly try to have compassion for that and understand that like they weren't there They didn't go through what I went through they don't understand like the the flashbacks or the feelings that I have and so I really try to just like I I can I can feel like the disappointment and the sadness and all the things that I that I'm allowed to feel for them not Believing or not understanding but then I can also be like, okay You Like, that's okay. That's where you're at. You know? Well, and they haven't, I think one thing for me that I've learned, especially like with my mom, with my dad, with anybody else, that's part of my story, where in the beginning I was so angry towards is like you said, they can only meet me where they're at and realizing like, I've been doing a lot of work. Yeah. It makes sense why I can have peace with this, or I can. Brought, walk through this or have this perspective. Yeah. They haven't been doing the work that I've been doing. Yeah. So it, like you said, where they're at, it makes sense. I can have grace for the fact that it's like when you're in. A senior in high school. You can't be mad that a fourth grader doesn't know the math that you know. Yeah, exactly. They haven't learned it yet. It's like, and it's really cool. I think Taryn taught us this perspective. I know Taryn taught us this perspective of like, and I truly believe in my soul that this is true, that my mom. Like came to earth knowing she would be the villain in my story Like I think and she was for a long time like I don't blame her anymore But I I did for a really long time. It was easy to be like you hurt me. Yeah, right? You're the one who was supposed to take care of me, right? It's easy to do that. But then there's another side where you can step back and be like actually I truly believe like she knew that she was coming here to teach me what she taught me. And I truly believe that I'm who I am because of that. And I'm so thankful. Yeah. And what a fucking empowering place to be. Yeah. Sorry for that. But like, it's so empowering to be like, actually I had a part in this or I learned and I am who I am because of it. And I, it just, it changes the script. Yeah. And also I think for me, I think because there was a point where. Again, I talk mostly about my mom and also with my real dad, which is, I actually had some huge processes about that this last weekend. Um, of just being so angry at them. And at one point being angry served me and I could see the beauty in that anger. And then through some work, I was able to switch it and see the actual beauty. Yeah. And see them as a person. I love that. Um, and have some grace and perspective of like Dude, you were a kid. Yeah, and you were just like Trying to do the best that you could for the family you had with the tools that you had. Yeah, and I It's not fair for me to hold Hold it against you that you didn't even have the tools that I have Yeah, so why should I expect you to handle things the way that I would exactly? And that's where we fall short. Right. Is when we expect people there's expectations and it's cool. Cause it's, this is parts work. It's like, we have all these protective parts. Anger is one of them that has served us. It's kept us alive. It's kept us safe. It's kept us functioning. And then when it doesn't serve us anymore, then it's like, okay, that's a protective part. Let's see what it's hiding. Like there's a wounded part too, that it's protecting that we have to dig into. Yeah. And that's been really beautiful too. I love that. For me, like breathwork has been huge. I don't know about for you, but like breathwork allows me to like tap in. And when I'm in like that meditative state, I can like tap in and I have released so much emotion and breathwork. Like it is insane. It just blows me away every time. I think for me, breathwork, especially in the beginning, it was just a I didn't know what I didn't know. Right. Yeah. And so in the beginning, breath work was like, okay, this is kind of helping me. And the more work that I've done, it's like, it peels back more layers every time. And it's been wild because like you said, it's like, it pulls back that anger and shows you the underlying what's really there. What was really going on. Totally. It's. Do breathwork, everybody do it. Also, I've never shared this before, like in public, but, um, my first breathwork session was with Jen at the gentle warrior thing. And it was the, like, so insane. I was like, Oh my gosh, I've always hated the color red. I don't have no idea why. Um, and in the breathwork, I realized the person that sexually abused me was wearing red the first time. But what's crazy is I released that. And like, I felt that like the anger and the, like the emotion and the grief and stuff behind that releasing. And when we opened our eyes, Jen had turned the color, the candles red. I was like, are you kidding me? That gives me full body chills. Yeah. And ever since I'm like, breathwork is my thing. Like it's my jam. Yeah. It's definitely something that helps me a ton for sure. That's magic. I'm pretty passionate about go find a breathwork facilitator. And the cool thing about it is, um, people make jokes about like everybody's doing breathwork, but what's great is every person is so different. I've been, I've done breathwork with people who use the same breath pattern, Yeah. But the person. Facilitating. Oh my gosh. It's so different. It's always a different experience. It's so crazy. Every single time. Or even if you go to the same person. Yeah. I have done breath work with, um, Jed Elton so many times and every, yeah, every experience has been a different one. Yeah. It's so wild. I had one breath work session where I was just having a really emotional day. Um, and I had invited a bunch of friends to go and they had all flaked out. And so like, I almost didn't go cause I didn't want to go alone. And the last minute I text one of my friends that I hadn't talked to in a little while, I was like, Hey, do you want to go to this with me? And she was like, yeah, that sounds great. And so I was glad I just didn't have to go alone. Yeah. But I knew I needed to go. And so I went and it was somebody I'd never done breath work before. I'd had maybe two conversations with her and it was wild. I was, it was the most body buzzy feeling and I was like sobbing one minute. And I was basically, the long and short of it is I, Had had a lot of confusion about actually this podcast. I was super in my head about it and I had recorded one, my first episode, and I was just going so back and forth and trying to get everybody's input about it and realizing that breathwork session made me realize that how much power I truly carried within myself and that I needed to do what was right for me. And in the beginning, when I was starting this podcast, it was about. What's it going to accomplish? Am I going to have enough followers? Are people really going to listen? What are people going to think? And I was caring so much about the outward thing. Um, am I going to be, am I trying to be famous? What am I trying to accomplish with this? You know? And after that, it was like, no, I'm not doing this for anybody else. I'm doing this for me because it's been, and I've realized that more and more with each episode of how freeing it is to tell my story and how, healthy it's been for me and hearing other people's perspective. Like for me, being able to hear other people's story is just me like soaking in what they've, their growth. And the fact that I know that it'll help other people is a bonus. Totally. So it's like, it sounds selfish, but it's like, that's, what's helped me. No, I love that. That's great. So I love that. You know what it's doing and. And I love that you like stay true to yourself and breathwork helped you get there. Like, yeah, that's why it's so cool is like, we do get in our head, right? We live our lives in our mind. Like that's how we're taught. Like that's what society we live in. Like hustle, hustle, hustle. Yeah. Think about everything you're doing. Like, but really the magic is dropping into your body and feeling what's here. Yeah. Not what's here. Exactly. You know? Yeah, for sure. And also, It's easy to say, yeah, I felt sad, I felt the emotion, I felt it, but to really like sit in it and understand it totally different than just saying I felt sad. Yeah, exactly. Like clearly I felt sad. I was crying. Yeah. Everybody can see that. Yeah. But yeah, to, to sit in emotion, to truly understand it, where is that coming from? And like you said, how, Anger is just the surface emotion and how there can be so many other things. Yeah. Yeah. It always goes deeper. Yeah And that's, what's cool about the work is like, there's always more, there's always deeper. And now I know it's not chasing after the next thing that's going to fix me. Like I am perfect the way I am, but it's like learning that I can love myself for exactly who I am with all of my messy, dark shadow, yucky stuff. Like it's about becoming who I really am and unbecoming all the things I've been taught that I am. Right. Defining that for yourself. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What has that, so you've mentioned that like Nick's been super supportive throughout all of this and with you on your growth journey, how has that affected your relationship? Like, so from, for me, um, Ben was the one to start growing and then to challenge me to also take action. Yeah. Um, Um, and in the beginning I was very much like, Oh, that's great for you. I'm happy for you. Sure. I'll print out and help you make your meal plans and stuff. Whatever. I'm fine. Yeah, totally. Um, and then realizing like I had so much to heal on my own. What, um, how has that been for Nick while you're going through all of this healing? And I love this question. Um, he'll be the first to tell you that he blamed everything on me. Like he, and he'll say that, like, I thought Ashley was the problem because she had so much shit like that she brought, you know? And so he was like, he, his viewpoint was like, once Ashley like starts to fix her stuff and like feel her emotions and heal her stuff, like it'll be great. Yeah. And then he quickly realized like, Oh shit. Ashley's done this for a long time. Like she's actually been trying to heal for a really long time. And I have shit too. Yeah. Um, and that's been really cool. What's been really cool for me is like, control is huge for me, like letting go of control. Um, it's a thing that we think keeps us safe. Right. But it doesn't at all. Yeah. But it's this thing that we like do that we think, Oh, we're protected because we're in control. Yeah. And so for me, it was like, I wanted him so badly to join me because I wanted to control what that looked like. And for him, like. He's not going to do something. Cause I want him to like, that's just not who he is. And I love that about him. Well, and I think that's true for so many people. It's sometimes to the point where Ben would do the opposite. Oh yeah, exactly. Ben would be like, we should do this, this, and this. And I'd be like, how about now? Yeah. I don't want to do that because he said so. Exactly. Like there's just a little bit of defiance, right. Which is totally fair. Yeah. Um, so once I surrendered the control. And I just like had no expectations. And I was like, I'll just keep going. And whatever that looks like there were times where it was really hard, where we were really uncomfortable. Cause I was like in this totally different place than he was. And it caused a lot of like fighting and like insecurity and just them things that would come up. And so once I realized like, I don't have to be in control. And I surrendered that and I just let him be where he was. He jumped right in, like followed right behind me, you know? And so he's been on his own. Amazing journey. He's been very vulnerable on his Instagram and like all of the struggles that he struggles with. And it's been beautiful. I'm so proud of him. Well, and I think that it's powerful that he has seen the example that you've set of the things you've been vulnerable with. And. Cause it's not like, it's not like you have, Oh, I, I was insecure about my body and I'm not minimizing any of these things, but the stuff that you were going through, going through, working through, yeah, sitting in, sitting in were so heavy and the bravery behind that. And the fact that you could see the bigger picture and see the light at the end of the tunnel of that. Yeah. I think sets such a huge example of like, okay, she can sit in this heavy shit. I think I can do it too with my heavy shit. Yeah. I do give him credit though, because I wouldn't have been able to sit in the heavy shit without him. Like he's a huge part of that. He's the first person I've ever felt safe with. Yeah. I have a tattoo on my arm of his handwriting that says I'll keep you safe because he literally is the first person I've felt totally safe with. I love that. Yeah. Of giving you permission and. Yeah. Maybe he didn't want to look at his own stuff, but he was willing to let me look at mine and sit in that. And that's beautiful too. Yes. Cause now he is looking at his stuff. Yeah. Well, and how cool is it that like he was able to provide that for you and now you get to also be that safe space for him and now that you're both growing, you're just, it's just this continual cycle of let's hold each other and be each other's safe space. And that's what a relationship should be. It's hard as hell, but it's what it is. Like you don't have to be in the same spot. It's not like I'm better than you. I'm ahead of, like, none of that matters. It's like showing up when the other person needs you. Exactly. And that's it. Yeah. Um, it's funny that you say that. Cause that's exactly how mine and Ben's thing was, was like, he started his growth journey and there was a level. There was a point in time where I felt I could feel him being. It wasn't as simple as like, he has a meal plan. He's going to the gym more and he's setting goals of what he wants our future to be like. It was, I could see him becoming a better person, uh, like a better version of himself. And I loved it. And it was scary because I got scared the shit out of you. Yeah. Cause I was like he was in spaces with other people who were doing the same thing as him striving to just be better and grow. And I could feel, okay, I am not doing that. And I just felt this insecurity of like, what if he goes for somebody who is doing that? And Ben is not a person that I would ever, ever suspect of like, or having any type of thoughts about any other person. But I just knew that I wasn't doing what he was doing. Oh yeah. And security is totally valid. Oh yeah. And he challenged me. So before he proposed, he said, I'm on this growth journey. I want you to be growing too. The fact of the matter is. If you're not growing, you're going to get left behind and I don't want to leave you behind. So you need to be doing something. It doesn't have to be the same thing. It doesn't have to be at the same pace as me, but you have to be doing something if this is going to work. And I want it to work. Yeah. And for me, I was like, yeah, me too. I want it to work. Challenge accepted. How beautiful. And the, I love that you gave me permission of, it doesn't have to be at the same pace. It doesn't have to be the same thing. You just have to be doing something. And the fact that he had gone first gave me something to follow because I didn't know how to do that. Yeah. And that's what like relationships, like you said, are, it's like helping somebody become the best version of themselves. It's like challenging somebody. It's not what we talked about with our friendships. Like it's not people pleasing. It's not saying you're perfect where you're at. It's saying like, actually, there's some stuff you need to look at here. Let's help you become who you want to be. Exactly. That. Okay. Let's talk about that for a second. Because, um, I love that we love each other for where we are and also say, but that's not where you need to stay. Don't stay there. Yeah. And it's not like a, um, you're fucked up, please fix it. It's a, okay, what are we going to do? What's our, what's our plan to fix this? Yeah. And it's like, I'll let you sit there as long as you need to, but then we're going to get up and move. Exactly. There's going to be action after this. Yeah, totally. That's yeah, and I think that that's great that we have that in our spouses Which is like the most important thing. Yeah, but also that we have a friend group That's supporting us through that as well. Yeah So beautiful. It is really beautiful. I'm like so thankful for that. Um What else was I gonna say? There was another thing that you said a little bit back that I wanted to touch back on um I don't remember what it was It's gone. It's okay. Um, how do you think, so now that I've kind of mentioned this before, but I wanna come at it from a different angle. Um, like with your relationship with your mom. Mm-Hmm. Do you feel like, I'll put it how I've experienced it in the beginning when I was growing, and of course there's been. Levels to this, right. I've like in the beginning I was very angry and felt like I needed to put her in her place and how she accepted that. And of course she has a lot of guilt. And so she feels like, I think my mom honestly sometimes feels like I should scream and yell at her because she feels like that's what she deserves. Yeah. Um, and I don't, I mean, if I was a mom, if I was a mom, I am a mom. I just think, I don't know. I just put myself in her shoes of. I can understand why she feels that way. You, you set the bar of what you should be as a mom and how you want to raise your kids. And when you feel like you failed that, I mean, there are times on a daily basis where I go to bed and I'm just like, I shouldn't have yelled at my kids today. I should be better. Yeah. And you just feel so sad and this little kid and they deserve better than that. And, but so there have been levels of like where I'm processing through things and where my mom has met me. And it's really cool as I'm growing to see how that's affecting my mom and how our conversations are changing. And even this morning, just like the conversation that we were able to have was so different around this podcast was so different than what we would have had a month ago, two months ago, a year ago, especially. So do you feel like, can you see any of that? affecting your relationship with your mom, your family, and how your conversations have been changing. I know you mentioned that they were angry and didn't believe you in the beginning, but what is that like now? Yeah. So I do see the difference. Like there is, once you step into Like your power and you take back, like you say, okay, I had a part in this. Like once I'm willing to take responsibility for my part in it too. I think that allows the other person to drop their guard down a little bit where my mom doesn't feel like I'm blaming her. Um, we've had a really beautiful conversation recently, um, where she did say, like, I'm really sorry. I do feel guilty. I feel like, um, you think I, um, failed you or I never measured up. I'm like, Ooh. I know that feeling. Yeah. I've had that feeling of not measuring up and not being enough and I don't want her to feel that way, um, especially with, so I just told her like, actually, I love you and like, I think you really did the best with the tools you had and I mean that and, um, I don't fault you for the things you didn't know. Like you only know what you know. Exactly. And so we had a beautiful conversation where she was able to say like, I'm really sorry. And I was able to say, I'm actually really proud of you and I love you. And it's okay that this happened. And I actually do think you measured up as a mom. I think you did exactly what you were supposed to do when you came here. Yeah. Like what a beautiful conversation that would have never happened even a month ago. Yeah. It's just constantly changing. Right. The more we like allow ourselves to give ourselves permission to be vulnerable. Like we've talked about the other person feels like they can be too. Like, I don't know if she would have ever told me like, I feel like I'm not measuring up because there were layers where I would get angry. We would yell at each other. I'm just as guilty of yelling at her as she is at me. Like that was what my coping mechanism, like I would scream at her in high school when she would yell at me. Like it was this like battle. Yeah. And so, um, yeah, I just think there's layers and I think the more that we grow and the more that we learn to be vulnerable and like, Have no expectations. That's been a huge one is like, I don't need to have expectations on her. She's going to show up exactly how she knows how, and that should be good enough for me. Yeah. You know? Well, I think that it goes, I love that you said that because I think that it goes both way of like, if we're wanting to show up vulnerable, vulnerable. That's a hard word. Vulnerable. As ourselves and wanting others to hold space for that, wanting to create an atmosphere. For that, then we also need to be that for other people. Exactly. Especially something I heard a long time ago was like, it's, it's wild how we can have so much patience and be so loving for people outside of our family that we don't know a stranger. If you know the way that they're acting, Oh, it's okay. You're fine. Our friends. But then when it comes to our family, how impatient we are and how we hold them to such a higher standard. And. It, I mean, it just goes all the way around with our friends and with our family. We just need to provide for them what has been provided for us of that patience. And it goes back to the victim mentality, right? Of like, it's easy to be the victim. It's easy to blame and be like, But that, you don't heal, you don't grow, nothing happens there except for resentment and anger and things that you don't want. And so it's, yeah. Yeah. And when you're in the victim mindset, you're giving all of your power away. All of it. It's, you no longer have control of how you're healing, how you're processing your emotions around a situation. You're literally saying, I'm hurt and I'm letting everybody else decide. How I feel, but when one has to tippy toe around me, yes. And when you're able to take control of the situation and realize, well, actually, like you said, honoring the part that you played. And I think what's important to clarify about that. Um, I had Catherine on my podcast a while ago. It was actually my second episode where she like really explained about like owning your part of it. And it doesn't mean that you're I caused this to happen, but I was in the room, right? I was there. All you have to own. Exactly. Like I was talking to her specifically at the retreat about my sexual abuse. I'm like, how do I own that? Like as a child, how do I own, she's like, you don't have to own that. You have to own that you were there and that you learned something from it. Exactly. I'm like, Oh, I can do that. Yeah. I can own that. I was in the room and that I actually taught me huge lessons in my life. Yes. And I'm who I am because of it. Exactly. And that, and that's the first step to opening the door to so many other levels of. Of growth and, and learning the lessons from it. Yeah. The other thing I wanted to talk about too, that you mentioned is expectations of like how we're having, we can have expectations of ourself, we can have expectations of a situation, but especially when we're having expectations of another person and how that is a level of control. Yeah, totally. Of like, I expect that when I tell you this, that hurt me, that you did, you should tell me sorry. Mm hmm. And. You should react this way and treat me this way. Yeah. All those expectations is a form of control and manipulation of like, I, and when I say manipulate, manipulate, Oh, can't even say it now. Manipulation. It's not like I'm manipulating you. It's I'm trying to mold. Yeah. This situation into this perfect thing that I want it to be. And the reality is that's not how it's going to be. No. And really you're just setting yourself up for disappointment. And you're avoiding your feelings in that situation, right? If we're having expectations on someone, if I'm expecting someone to show up in my life a certain way, and then they don't. Because they're human and they don't have to show up anyway. And they have their own process. They have their own stuff going on. Like if I expect someone to show up and then they don't, and I'm disappointed, I'm back in victim and I'm back in avoidance. I'm not, I'm avoiding everything I feel because I'm blaming the other person. You didn't show up the way I expected you to. Yep. That's bullshit. Exactly. Like you didn't have to show up in any way. Yeah, there's no expectations there. There shouldn't be anyway. Yeah, you know, well, and I think that that's realizing you can only control so much Yeah, you can control yourself. Yeah, so I like the idea of and ben and I have talked about this of like They made me feel hurt. They made me feel so sad Did they make you feel that way chose to feel that way exactly of like taking ownership of your own feelings? What they did had an effect on me. Yeah Um, but I chose the emotion around it. And that's hard for people to hear, right? It's hard to be like, Oh shit, I chose that. Yeah. Like I actually chose to feel that way. Yeah. But it's the truth. It is. It's the hard truth. I had a conversation with somebody a couple of years ago where, um, I said something that really offended her. And. I apologize. Of course it was over text, which is like the worst way to have a conversation. Um, and I apologize for it. And she would just like, kept going of like how it hurt her. And finally I was like, listen, I've apologized three times in this conversation. I will take ownership for my words. I'm not going to take ownership for the emotions you felt. Yeah. So I am sorry for my words, but you're the one who chose to feel that way. And she came back with, Oh, gaslighting much? Mmm. Ugh. You're like, no, that's not what I'm doing. Dude, I had like tunnel vision anger. Yeah. Because I was like, are you kidding me? Ugh. For anybody that knows me, that's like the last thing I would ever want to do to somebody. And so that, this was someone who was supposed to be my friend and supposed to know me and, and knew some of my story. Yeah. And so, uh, I felt like, you know, me and you're still using that word against me. And so I had to like sleep on it. And the next day I messaged her back and I was like, you know what I realized? Um, a friend wouldn't talk to me that way. And I love you and I hope you have an amazing life, but I don't think that there's much point of us continuing this friendship and so like, I wish you all the best. Yeah. Bye. Um, but it was interesting how. I was taking ownership for my part and saying, I didn't make you feel any sort of way and how offensive that is to somebody. Especially like, I don't know if you listened to my marriage podcast, but speaking from wounds, like, yeah, that's what that is. Right. It's like she has this wound and she's speaking from it and she can't see. Like rationally, she's emotional and she's like saying something that is really hurtful that she surely probably didn't really believe about you. She knew you weren't gaslighting her, but she used that. And so it's just hard because we do like speak from wounds a lot and it's like, Learning to recognize that before you even speak it, right? Like instead of having a reaction, yes. Instead of like talking, saying you hurt my feelings. Cause you, it's like sitting in that, well, why did that hurt my feelings? Like it's taking ownership. It's like boundaries on yourself of like, I actually don't need to reach out to someone that hurt my feelings. If I'm able to take responsibility for why my feelings are hurt. Yes. They didn't do anything. Like maybe they hurt. Like maybe there is some type of ownership they can take and say, sorry. And that's great. But like, ultimately it's on me to figure out why that hurt my feelings. Cause there's always a wound there. Yeah. Always. And it goes both ways of like, even if I did say something that hurt her feelings, why did I say that? Yeah. Because. I probably said it knowing it would hurt her feelings. So then going into, okay, why did I feel the need to say that? Why did I feel the need to take a jab? Why did I, and backtracking of like, what's really going on here and seeing the bigger picture within yourself of that's taking ownership. It is. And you don't have to take ownership of someone else's feelings, but you can take ownership of your part in it. Like there's a difference. Exactly. Yeah. 100%. So one other thing I did want to ask you, um, okay. Two parts. Yeah. One, for someone who is going through the things that you went through, the abuse, the abusive relationship being, um, finally feeling safe and remembering all of that stuff. And, um, Um, and that journey of healing, what's something that would have helped you to hear going through that? Or what's something that you'd like to tell somebody that might help them going through that? Um, I think it begins with like loving yourself. I would, if I could go back and tell myself, like, I would be like, it's okay. Like, it's going to get better. Just hang on, like, love yourself. And it's hard to tell somebody to love themselves. Um, you can't make somebody love themselves, but I think like reaching out, finding safe people is so important. Mm hmm. Um, so if somebody's going through that, I would tell them to reach out to somebody. Um, find some, somebody safe, even if it's just one person, because literally it will, it can change your life. Like having somebody safe that you can. Process with and feel through and that will hold that space for you. It's life changing. Yeah. Huge. What do you, what does loving yourself look like to you? Cause I mean, some people would be like, yeah, I love myself. I like my hair. Um, and some people loving yourself or self love is taking a bubble bath. But what does that mean to you? Self love to me? I think it looks different all the time. Um, I think sometimes it is taking a bubble bath and then sometimes it's talking about what's going on. Like, what did I do wrong in this situation? Like, I literally, sometimes it's okay. Tonight I need a bubble bath. And then sometimes it's like, Hey, Nick, call me out. Where are my blind spots? Yeah. Like, I think loving myself is, um, accepting where I'm at, being proud of where I'm at and also wanting to keep learning and becoming the best version of myself. I think that's what loving myself is. I love that, that there's three parts to it. Accepting where you are, seeing where you've been and knowing you want more. Yeah. Yeah. That's beautiful. Thank you. Mm-Hmm. And the other thing I wanted to do is can we like give some plugs to your, your, uh, clothing brand and your podcast of where to find you? Because I want people to listen to it. It's so beautiful. Thank you so much. So is yours. Thank you. Um, yeah. My Instagram is at eighth Wonder Designs, um, an eight with TH and then Wander Designs. Um, and then the website is www.eighthwonderdesigns.com. And what's cool is if you go to the Instagram, it has a link to the website. Yeah. If you go to the website, there's a little spot right there that says, listen to the podcast. So really it's like, you can find everything. Yeah. There's a link to the podcast as well on Instagram too. Yeah. That's what I meant. Sorry. Oh, you're good. It's on both. Okay, cool. Right. Um, and what's cool about it is that, and you kind of mentioned this before, but I something that I really love is that your, the t shirts are. Designed like a collab with the person that you had on the podcast to represent their story. Yeah. So I, I send the story to my, the girl that draws, um, I send her some like ideas of things I'm thinking. She listens to the story. Before I ever release it. And she collabs with me on like what she thinks was the powerful parts of their story. And then we create a design around it. It's pretty cool. I love it. Yeah. Well, cause it's not just like, here's a really cool podcast and here's some pretty clothes. Yeah. There's like so much symbolism behind it. Like even your logo. So it's a girl. Um, from the back wearing a hat, which you always wear hats, which is so beautiful. And then, um, she has paint brushes and flowers and they're being held on by bandages, which is, I'll have you explain. Um, it just like signifies helping people heal through like creativity, through telling their story. Um, yeah, just like through art too, because I'm helping like design something around their story and I want them to know that their story matters and I want them to have something tangible. Um, and then I'm playing around with the idea of like them picking, um, a foundation to donate part of the proceeds to. Oh, that would be awesome. Yeah. So I think we're going to do that. And just, I just love. I love the vulnerability. I love people's stories and I think giving them something tangible shows them like, Hey, you matter. This is important. This is super important. And that it's two, we're changing the world. Yeah. So beautiful. Thank you so much for being on this with me and sharing your story and creating your own. Thank you. I appreciate you. I love you. I love you. Hey, thanks for listening to this episode. If you liked what you heard, please remember to subscribe and go leave a review on Apple podcast. It helps me know what you want to hear and who I should have as a guest next. Thanks again. And until next time, keep living the life of a Lotus.