Brian Kelly Overreaction & Dumb CFB Narratives for the 2024 w/ On3's JD Pickell

Chris Marler is joined by JD Pickell from On3 to discuss...

- The insane overreaction to Brian Kelly's NIL comments 
- Dumb CFB Narratives for 2024 on DJ U, Coach Prime, and Ryan Day's coaching resumé and ability at Ohio State

New episodes Monday-Thursday at 8:00 PM EST and Friday at 11 AM EST

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:01

All right, what's up guys? Welcome into 4th and Wrong Daily. This is your Wednesday May 8th episode, Joined by a very special guest. Been pumped for this one, JD Piquel. I'm pronouncing that right, it's not pickle.

Speaker 2: 0:13

That's perfect. Yeah, I mean, you call me whatever you want, brother, but yeah, that's the correct pronunciation JD.

Speaker 1: 0:17

Piquel on 3Sports. Former Cornell. Running back, I don't know why. I thought you played quarterback, but I've been. I've been dude. I was almost on your huddle earlier trying to find a picture for this this clip and I just got sidetracked.

Speaker 2: 0:30

But how you been, dude, I'm great. I'm great. Yeah, I think the further I get away from playing like, my career gets better. Maybe in 10 years I'll be a quarterback. Maybe I didn't play at cornell, maybe I played at like some other bigger time school. But yeah, man, I'm glad to be on with you. It's weird, dude. It feels like this offseason has never really slowed down. I know we had the portal thing where it was just dominoes of coaches leaving and then that kind of kept up with storylines. And then we have the second portal. Now we got Brian Kelly talking about NIL. The whole thing just feels like we haven't really stopped since Houston.

Speaker 1: 1:08

And I know you and I, we both love that. So it's been a good year, man, so you're wrong about that. You have loved that for sure. As an Alabama fan, and a lifelong Alabama fan, I have never wanted to hit the brakes on an off season so fast as January, cause January was dude, it was my entire life. Was the Ben Affleck smoking meme of just? Or the Popeye's lady? Just like bent over, like just exhausted, cause it was like dude, I, I wake up and I remember I would. I would wake up and just be so much dreading looking at my phone and be like who? Who left today? Please, god, don't let it be Caleb Downs.

Speaker 1: 1:32

And of course, you know like, um, you alluded to this, though. This is, this is the news I think that's dominating our 24 hour news cycle of idiots on social media. Um, I, while I was waiting you on here, I was. I was using all my valuable time not to prepare but to argue with idiots on twitter, like I do every day. The ryan kelly thing the quote that is, for the most part, I feel like kind of taken out of context. He's on with with um, uh, I don't know how to pronounce his last name jacques ducette. I think that's right. I think that's right. Yeah, okay, if it's not right and you're listening, jock, he's the one that said it, not me. Um, no, but so jock doucette is talking about, just like what happened with lsu, specifically the defensive line position, um, and that's a position you.

Speaker 1: 2:17

I think that if you're looking at that roster is probably the weakest one on the roster, right like, like they obviously struggled last year on defense, but they don't have any depth issues or roster concerns on offense, right like, even at running back, you're bringing in two young kids. They're supposed to be really good. Quarterback is going to be your quarterback position, um, receiver tenants, you're going to be great. You have arguably the best two linemen in the conference playing left, right tackle. You got a defense. You're good at linebacker. You have dudes at db that need to get better, but D-line is the only one. It's the only. It's the only position that Brian Kelly himself said they were going to go after. The second portal window is closing and he hasn't gotten anybody, which has become a major concern. Your thoughts on what he said and the overreaction to it, because the main thing was he's like we're not going to be a pay for play type place, basically like in so many words.

Speaker 2: 3:04

Yeah, to be a pay-for-play type place. Basically, in so many words, yeah. And I think the issue that I found most people had with the statement is just the statement itself. I don't think anybody's actually pointing to LSU's roster and saying, wow, you need to invest some more to get some more talent on that roster. There's a thought you need to invest to land some more defensive linemen. That's a fair argument. Every roster has holes. There's no perfect roster.

Speaker 2: 3:26

But like I think the people got hung up on we're not going to buy players. And they're like we gotta buy players, nil, that's what we gotta do. And so, like I appreciated more so the sentiment rather than the actual words he was saying. Like the actual words he was saying, if you were to put those in a vacuum, yes, you should pay to buy good players. That's a pretty straightforward thing in my call football. But to say, hey, we're not going to have nil be the entree of our meal. It's going to be, you know, our entree of our program. I guess there's going to be parts of nil that help us acquire talent. It might be the side dish, but like we're not going to bring guys here solely for nil dollars and solely for big checks and to me I'm like, yeah, that that makes sense, like I want guys that are invested in what our team is going to do and ultimately, the actual culture so, like to me, I don't really see why this had to be such a big thing.

Speaker 2: 4:16

I understand that, like that quote in itself, we're not going to buy players, rub some people the wrong way, but I'm also like okay, let's look at the roster. Like nil is clearly a thing lsu is willing to do. They have I believe that I was recording this a top three class in 2025. I don't think they're landing those commitments that are free. Uh, they had jayden daniels malik, neighbors brian thomas on the roster last year all first round talent. I don't think they were playing for free, like harold perkins.

Speaker 2: 4:42

I don't think he was playing for free. So there's this thought that, like lsu, is somehow broke because of what brian kelly said, and I just based on the roster, who they have there, who they've had there.

Speaker 1: 4:52

Uh, doesn't check out to me, chris no, this, this honestly, might end up being the show. I do want to get to the punchline folks thing because I've been so excited, but this is.

Speaker 1: 4:59

This is like I think this one thing is like there's so much, there's so much to wade through, as with anything that gets released on social media and has, like, this 24 hour news cycle, but like, let's try to wade through all this in a logical way, right? Like the first point, brian Kelly's salary is one hundred million dollars. That has nothing to do with this situation, has nothing to do with it. He's not a hypocrite because the amount of money he makes I've been saying this, I feel like, for a while now also, especially with NIL I don't know when this became a thing just because someone makes a lot of money doesn't mean they aren't allowed to speak on things, especially when they are the ones that are probably most familiar with the content and subject matter, like coaches in college football. So let's remove that from the equation for one. Two, this is not a situation where I, like I heard this over and over and over again well, they're just not willing to spend on nil. What you're missing here, like, is it's not that I'm not willing to spend on nil, they're not willing to spend in this specific window. And and the thing is, it's like I think he did say he's like going into this window.

Speaker 1: 6:03

We need to address this position. There's maybe three guys that LSU really really started targeting. One kid from Michigan State who ends up signing with Miami. He's a three-year starter. He's got good numbers for a D tackle three-year starter, 34 starts in his career, but he goes to Miami. I don't want to be as assumptive of some of the reactions on social media, but him going to Miami instead of LSU to me screams. I'm going to go get paid because that seems to be what and that's fine in this era.

Speaker 1: 6:29

But let's also take a step back and look at all the things that Brian Kelly has done to address the defense. Starting with the off season, they hired a new DC, a new defensive line coach, who's arguably the best defensive line coach in the country, and then also a new defensive backs coach, two other defensive assistants, including an edge rusher specialist, to help coach that part as well, because this was one of the worst defenses in the country. He did all those things. And then the best point that I think that no one is making you said this right off the bat. If if you're saying that brian kelly and lsu don't have the money to spend, they don't care, care about NIL or blah, blah blah. Let's not discount the fact that they have the number two ranked class in the country for next year, with the number one overall player who's a quarterback and last time I checked they get paid the most the number one receiver in the class and a five-star running back. So where do you like? Maybe he's just budgeting.

Speaker 2: 7:26

Like I'm not good at budgeting, so maybe he's just doing this the right way. The other thing, chris, everybody that we like really respect as a tier one level coach in college football. This is also kind of the philosophy that it seems like they're taking on. Like kirby smart, you talk to guys that are recruited by georgia or committed to georgia and they kind of say the same thing of like yeah, you don't get paid for committing to georgia, but you get to georgia and there's opportunities in Athens. You see a Carson Beck's driving like cause I got a Tesla truck or something crazy that I'm sure is not given to Lambo or something like that.

Speaker 1: 7:50

Yeah, it's nuts.

Speaker 2: 7:52

Like yeah, he's making, I mean, that's a high, high value item. So like, yeah, there'll be smarts, kind of following the same thought that it sounds like Brian Kelly is expressing here. Nick Saban talked about that, one of the reasons why he was honestly like willing to be done with college football at the end of the thing. Because he's like, listen, I want it to be about development and about our players and like we're not going to pay you to commit to Alabama, maybe as much as somewhere else might pay you to give their commitment. So like we don't have a problem with Kirby's doing it. Ryan.

Speaker 2: 8:19

Kelly says what everybody is already doing at a high level, and then people are like, well, lsu must be broke. And it's like, no, lsu is not broke. I promise you go check out that football facility, go check out his contract. Like they're just fine when it comes to dollars and cents.

Speaker 1: 8:32

Agreed and I do think there's also something. If I'm an LSU fan and I think LSU fans, I have sided with them on this. In general, for the most far, there's there's I think there's some, as there are in every fan base a pocket of fans that are like freaking out that this is screaming. They don't have enough money the other thing is it's.

Speaker 1: 8:48

It's clear that he's saying that that he needs the boosters to give more money. I really think what he was saying was like, listen, like, like he may have missed on those guys right, he may have missed on those guys, he may have been under, like I mean, he may have been outbid for those guys, and I think that's fine. But like, all right, pr, save some face and say what you're trying to say but also establishing a culture which is, at that school, just as important as anything, because of how prideful that fan base is, that program is, and the people of Louisiana. I thought he just like. It just felt like one of those things Remember when I was talking about it this morning. It felt like one of those things Remember when I was, when I was talking about it this morning. It felt like one of these things where we're all talking about it and Brian Kelly's just carrying on his day and just has like he's like I don't care.

Speaker 2: 9:30

You know what I mean. He hasn't thought twice about this. Yeah, no, no, the thing is in 48 hours. We won't think twice about it either.

Speaker 1: 9:44

Yeah, in my tweets. Well, they have something else to say about that, but okay, so that's. I appreciate you talking about that. That is something I feel like it's just been so mislabeled, like just from like the last 24 hours, getting into my favorite topic, maybe the entire office that you brought this up, and it's such a undervalued thing that I think people don't talk about, because we do a lot of our content, stuff is on social media and you interact with people on there constantly and the punchline culture of just today in general, right, this easy low hanging fruit mislabeling of things because you don't agree with it, you don't like it, it's not your team, you're just here to talk trash, whatever.

Speaker 1: 10:20

This has become like an epidemic. I I feel like in sports, like like commenting, and also college football, especially. You brought up the phrase punchline. Uh, punchline culture what are the? What are the like? I guess the most obvious ones that you see every day in college football, like I, like notre dame can't win a big game, type stuff, like. What are the ones you see that are like the most obvious?

Speaker 2: 10:44

Yeah, I think the three fan bases in the state of Florida Miami, florida State and Florida as you know, chris have probably the most volume on social media and I respect the heck out of it. It makes our job fun. We know how they're feeling 24-7. There is very strong feelings around DJU at Florida State and there is a lot of clips circulating from his time at Clemson and what he didn't do effectively there. And I'm not here to tell you like DJU is going to win the Heisman Trophy or like he's going to go out there and be the number one overall draft pick, but like I think there's this perception that who he was at Clemson when he struggled and got benched for Cade Klubnick is just copy and paste who he's going to be when he gets to Florida State. Again, I don't think he's just going to light the world on fire, but he doesn't have to. If he just does his job plays within that system, florida State's going to be more than fine. I think it's also worth noting.

Speaker 2: 11:32

Look at what happened to Clemson after you took DJU out of the equation. They just thought that Kate Klemnick's going to light it up. They're going to score a and like actually, I think, scored five points less a game. Now that's not all in DJU. I'm saying he could have been responsible for some solutions but, like you, went to Oregon state and he was just fine. I think Oregon state was in the neighborhood of 30 points a game. So I think it's reasonable to assume that DJU could have his best season. He's got the best play color he's ever had. He's on the best offense he's ever had he's played. Now he's going into his fifth year of college football. So like all these things where it's like fun to throw the alley-oop and say, well, who's your quarterback at Florida State? You know, like dunk on them, but it's like man, let's maybe give a little more context to this thing and you know, there might be a little bit more than what meets the eye to that situation.

Speaker 1: 12:18

I said this last, I think he has a chance to be one of the best quarterbacks performance-wise and production-wise in the country, and that sounds crazy, but it's like you're already playing in a pretty weak conference. For one, two, you're a fifth year. We've seen so many guys at that position now that have fifth and sixth year surges and an increase in production, and maybe he's one of those. But I'll say this Outside of 2020, I think this will be the most talented roster he'll be on. And that may sound crazy because all the people that Florida state lost.

Speaker 1: 12:50

And I know that Clemson recruits at a high level, but, like you, look at what Clemson doesn't do well from a recruiting standpoint, they do not recruit and develop offensive linemen at all under dad. It's just not a focus of theirs. Like you don't see him like from from high school to the pros. I think they've had one guy drafted in the first two rounds in the last decade or so at Clemson. I think that will already be a significant improvement. He's also not going to be an offense that just involves your head coach beating his head against a wall saying we're doing it this way or that's it. I think I'm completely on board with that. What's another one?

Speaker 2: 13:24

Ryan Day and with that, what's? What's another one. You know ryan day and ohio state are a punchline culture topic pretty frequently and like I get it like some of this comes from. You know what you've earned. You know he's been 0-3 against michigan the last three tries and michigan's won a national title and so it's teed up really nicely throughout this offseason of ohio state. I mean, let's just call a spade a spade.

Speaker 2: 13:40

They've won the offseason at this, this point, with Caleb Downs and with the way they attacked the portal, they got Chip Kelly, so all these things, and Will Howard, and so people are now, I think, visualizing what would be a funny thing for the rest of the Big Ten if Ohio State stockpiles like this has all this juice around them, they go out and flop against Michigan or don't make the Big Ten title or all those things. And again I see where that comes from too. But again you look at this roster, they had to bring back pretty much the entire defense plus Caleb Downs.

Speaker 2: 14:11

You got an offensive coordinator who could have been a head coach in the same conference. Who's now going to coach under you and kind of take some things off your plate? I also think Will Howard's a lot better than people want to pretend. I don't think he's Kyle McCord 2.0. I think he's a lot better than that. So I understand the punchline culture around Ryan Day and Ohio State probably comes with the territory whenever you wear that logo, but I think they're set up to kind of make some folks look a little bit foolish. When you look at their Twitter receipts, they are.

Speaker 1: 14:40

What they have on that roster is including Georgia, unlike anything else we've seen in college football this year and like I'm not saying that Georgia's roster is worse per se, but from a star power standpoint it is not as good as Ohio State's. You don't have a guy like Jeremiah Smith on that roster at Georgia. You don't have, like dude. I looked at this yesterday. They have the updated highs with odds and this is maybe this is foolish, but I will say that just from what vegas thinks of whoever mans that position. There's three different ohio state quarterbacks on that list and they're all under 8 000 like for their odds. Like will howard has like the fifth best odds in the country, julian sayans at plus 5 000. You compare that with some of these guys from the sec and it's noticeable. I mean because I think that in that offense especially have they're so good at receiver that offense I forgot about Chip Kelly until you brought it up, um, and they have so much talent that stayed versus like that could have left and been like very high round draft picks. Um, and here's the thing too that like dissecting the Ryan day hate, like I think I think the Ryan day hate comes from that people hate Ohio state. Right. Like, and I understand, I used to hate Ohio State. I used to really really think that Ohio State was soft. I thought their fans were ridiculous and they talked to us trash. They didn't know anything. To talk about. That peach bowl in Atlanta, where they took Georgia on the wire, changed my entire perception of them. Like they went toe-to-toe with Georgia and I don't know when we got into this mindset of like if you don't win the natty, like, that's a down year or you're not relevant somehow. Like I mean Ohio state.

Speaker 1: 16:09

I put this graphic out a while ago during the draft Kirby's heart has more, uh, first round draft picks and he does losses at Georgia. So does Ryan day. Ryan day has eight. I mean, like you look at the losses, dude, ryan Day has eight losses. That's crazy. Then you look at the losses, dude, it's like 2019, you lose to Clemson, right. You lose to Clemson in the cultural playoff by I think it was by one point. Then you lose in 2020. Dogs say hello 2020, you lose to Bama's in the national championship. You lose to Michigan, who's made a playoff all three years. You lose to Georgia in the playoff.

Speaker 2: 16:49

Those losses have some saying power for sure, oh, 100%. And I think the other part that you were alluding to there is like they really like they really used to be pretty soft defensively. Like mario cristobal and oregon came into the shoe and cj verdell ran for I don't know how many hundred yards against them, like they just took them to the woodshed and like give Ryan Day a ton of credit. He has been willing to do what we have not seen Lincoln Riley do to this point, which is pay attention to defense and take that side of the ball seriously. Like last year. Ohio State was a defensive football team and they played well enough offensively to put themselves in position at the end of the season to have a chance to go to the college football playoff if they beat Michigan.

Speaker 2: 17:22

But Ryan Day is still figuring it out as a head coach. He didn't get the like. The comp I always make is when you're an up-and-coming musician, you usually play a few dive bars, I would understand, probably do some smaller venues and then maybe, just maybe, you do enough things right, you get to play the Grand Ole Opry. Ryan Day was like hey, you were in a band once. Right, go play the grand ole opry, that is ohio, and he's like, okay, I'm figuring it out, and so it's like I think it's fair to assume he's gonna be a better head coach in two years than he is even right now, when he's a better head coach right now than he was two years ago by best in his football teams does that entire like, like, that entire description of a coach remind you of anyone else?

Speaker 1: 18:04

kirby smart, bingo, like, that and like, and that's the thing I think. I say this all the time about college. Uh, like college quarterbacks or quarterbacks in general, it's okay to to like, take a couple years and like where we're going. Dude, people forget kirby smart. Kirby smart is the best coach in college football in 2024. Eight years ago, I watched kirby smart lose to vanderbilt because he had nick chubb and sonny michelle in the backfield and he let his oc call a jet sweep to isaiah mckenzie against vanderbilt. They lost like, so like. I mean like.

Speaker 1: 18:34

You know, there's so much room for improvement and again, kirby had to break that ceiling of getting past save and all that kind of stuff, like I. I think that we just again it's the punchline culture thing we we give so much less um respect and I think like deserved admiration for for certain things, just because we don't want to and it's just so weird to me.

Speaker 2: 18:56

So everybody wants to. I want to win twitter. I was just saying everybody wants to win twitter. Like you see it, right there, it's teed up perfectly, like if I send this tweet, people are going to think it's hilarious and it might be hilarious, but is it factual? Is it true? Like that's a whole nother discussion.

Speaker 1: 19:10

Yeah, I'm, I'm, I, just I, I, I mean I. I'm one of the worst about it, cause I, just I mean I. You know, you think I would learn after losing like eight different Twitter accounts in the span of of of two years, but, um, no man that you want to talk about. I'll get you out of here before the dogs lose their mind, but, like there's, a lot going on in colorado. What's, what is the thing that has dominated your mindset for the last month or so?

Speaker 2: 19:34

yeah, that dude, colorado, it's been wild out there, hasn't it? Like I don't think I've ever talked so much about a team that missed a bowl game outside of nebraska and like they've, you know, been flirting with it for a little bit and like, yeah, I think the other thing too, like Dion Sanders, probably falls into that punchline culture a little bit, and I think the thing we talked about on our show the other day is, like Dion Sanders in a lot of ways draws interest outside of just like the college football sphere. Right, he's become a mainstream topic and when that happens in that same vein, people kind of view you as like 2D, if you will. There's either like all the way good, all the way bad with Deion, and I just wish there was some more nuance. It's like, yeah, they went 4-8 last year. That sucks, but it's a 3-1 improvement.

Speaker 2: 20:19

It's like, yeah, he's tweeting at players. It's a bad look, I wouldn't do it. But that doesn't have anything to do with how he's going to be on the field in the better part of like four to six months, and so, like I wish we could separate that a little bit more. I understand it's tough because you know, again, with social media, we want to live in the extremes and the greatest of all time, or it's trash. But uh, that's one that like I'm just I'm so fascinated to see how that develops, because it really is anyone's guess. You got your starting quarterback who's dion sanders son, who's putting out singles and opening for the little Wayne, but he also, like could be a top five draft pick, like I don't know. So the whole thing is just it's. It would never happen in any other sport and that is why I'm so grateful like we cover college football. You know that's a good point, man.

Speaker 1: 20:59

I think the thing that I haven't liked the way they've handled mostly anything. But I will say that I want Deion to succeed it to some level because I think I think it's so good for the sport. I mean, you just have so many eyeballs on it like yeah, I remember pate talking about this last year too. It's like one thing that has happened with with dion is him coming in.

Speaker 1: 21:18

It did create this like just mass influx of casuals that are that are now talking about like college football and then something surrounding college football that aren't really a part of it, that that like are being like mislabeled and just because people are interested in the sport and like they're just learning for the first time, right, um, I, I am like worried he won't go eight and four like and because I don't think the ceiling is much higher than that. But I would love for him to go eight and four and be like and prove people wrong, prove me wrong, some of the stuff that said but, dude, if he goes four and eight again, I don't see why he would stay in Boulder. I mean, that's the thing I'm most interested in seeing is because what's his next step? Because this has been the longest bring your son to work day. I've ever seen and I wonder if he continues to do it afterwards. You know?

Speaker 2: 22:05

That's the line right there, that is the greatest. Afterwards, you know, oh my, that's the line right there, that is the greatest. That needs to be on a t-shirt somewhere. But I mean, you're absolutely right, like the real, like we think it's crazy now what happens when jadur goes to the nfl and deon sanders is still in boulder. Or is he in boulder? Is he somewhere else? Because it felt like the deal with all of this, from going to jackson state to going to colorado, was always like coaching your son, making an impact, being able to impact Travis Hunter and his career and all those things. And I love what he's done in that regard, with how he's made the sport more popular, like you said. But, yeah, once there's no longer any family ties in Boulder, I wonder what that looks like. I'll tell you what too.

Speaker 1: 22:43

I don't agree with him arguing with the players on social media. I thought that was stupid.

Speaker 1: 22:48

But I think where most of my ire comes from with these guys is way more about Shadur, just the way he handles himself after games, and that's like I think that Deion will be such an interesting case study, because he's going to land on his feet and have something after this, regardless, I don't know what it will be. One thing we'll never see with Deion Sanders. In my opinion, though, he, after this, regardless I don't know what it'll be. One thing we'll never see with deon sanders. In my opinion, though, he's not gonna take a step back, like he's never going to end up being a. He might be a high school coach for fun, like img or something. He'll never be a coordinator. He'll never do any of those things, because that's just not in his nature to be second fiddle to anyone.

Speaker 1: 23:21

So, yeah, anyway, um, brother, I'm so glad we have to do this finally. We we're going to have to do it again, probably a few more times before the season, or maybe live from Dallas at Media Days.

Speaker 2: 23:33

I like that.

Speaker 1: 23:33

I like that a lot I know I'm already scouting out karaoke bars and the hot dog scene in there, because the hot dog money I spent in Nashville would make Brian Kelly and the NIL stuff blush for sure. But tell everyone where they can find your stuff. I know you're doing great things over there on three and we'll, we'll catch up again soon, man.

Speaker 2: 23:53

Yeah, man, I appreciate it. I mean, if you want to listen to us on podcast, you just type in the hard count with JD Pacquiao, Apple or Spotify, we got you covered, and then we're live on.