Episode 19 - With Tracy Stewart

Tracy went grey while living in France, so we chatted about the differences in attitude to grey hair in France, as well as Tracy's experience of going grey.

Transcript

Happier Grey Podcast with Tracy Stewart

Helen: Hello and thanks for joining me, Helen Johnson, for the Happier Grey podcast. I'm pro-ageing and love my grey hair, but I know it can be quite intimidating to take the plunge, so each week I'll be chatting to other women who've chosen to embrace the grey in the hope of inspiring and supporting you, whether you already have silver hair, in the process of going grey, or just considering ditching the dye.

Today, I'm joined by Tracy Stewart. She's an unconventional writing mentor, book coach, ghost writer, owner of the Freshly Press, a boutique author service agency, and a published fiction author. She's lived in France for the last 10 years and embraced the happiness of grey in her early fifties, which she credits as a pivotal element in giving her the confidence to change her life and career.

Wow. That's impressive. Grey’s done a lot for you.

So, do you mind me asking you to start with when you got your first grey hair?

Tracy: I got my first grey hair when I was probably in my early forties, I think. And at that point I was still, you know, religiously colouring up and covering up with different colours and going through that painful process on a regular basis. But yeah, very early forties, was when I first.

Helen: Okay, that's actually quite late. So, what colour was your head before?

Tracy: Originally, a very dark brown.

Helen: Okay.

Tracy: and then, you know, it's been a variety of colours through its lifetime.

Helen: Okay. You, kind dyed it for fashion and fun before you decided to dye it. 

Tracy: Yeah, essentially, and, and I think as well it's sort of part of that process, isn't it? Of trying to sort of really, you know, give yourself an identity, finding a way to be more you. And, I used colour as a way to do that.

Helen: So, has it been any like really bright colours?

Tracy: I had a really fantastic red at one point, which was a proper red, red. And I've tried to kind of purply blue, in my earlier days, which I both adored, but they were hugely high maintenance. 

Helen: Okay. So, how long did you dye your hair the natural colour for?

Tracy: I guess probably 10 years. Yeah, probably 10 years.

Helen: And what was the motivation for deciding to stop dyeing it? 

Tracy: Oh, multitude of things really. First and foremost, I think I was just getting extremely fed up at the time and effort it was taking to regularly keep a colour looking good. Then the cost, you know, they're not cheap. And I tried doing a couple of colours at home, and didn't end always terribly successfully. I’m no hairdresser, I think it’s safe to say. And then, I think gradually I kind of realised that I was maybe using it as a bit of a disguise. So, I thought, why not try and just see what happens if you let it do its own thing?

Helen: Okay. And so, when you came to grow it out, did you just stop dyeing it and leave it? Or did you cut it really short or?

Tracy: No, it was shorter than it is now. So, I guess it was probably, you know, kind of proper shoulder chin length. But I just, stopped dyeing it altogether and let it come and find its way naturally.

Helen: And how did you feel about it during that growing out process?

Tracy: I was actually quite excited, about it. Because think in a way it was almost sort of a revelation and it was almost kind of what and who am I going to be when I'm suddenly, kind of grey and very different from how people have always seen me throughout my adult life.

So, I was quite excited about seeing where it took me.

Helen: Okay. And were you in the UK or in France at the time?

Tracy: No, I was in France. People tend to think, women in France, are kind of quite high maintenance. But generally, you know, they're high maintenance in terms of wanting to have a really good cut, but not so much in terms of colour. And there were a lot more people who go grey from their fifties onwards, quite naturally, so I didn't feel like I stood out, in that sense. 

But it did when I came back to the UK for visits and things, very much as a lot of, my friends and a lot of people that I went to school with, you know, they were very much not embracing going grey in their fifties.

Helen: And what was their reaction to your hair?

Tracy: I guess, cause I was fortunate that I got a hint early on that it was going to come through, in quite a nice way, you know, that it wasn't going to be a kind of awkward shade of grey. I think it's probably the way I'd put it. So, they were intrigued.

There were lots of, oh, I'd never do that. I couldn't do that. Oh no, I couldn’t do that. They were quite intrigued, and a few people did think I was quite brave.

Helen: Okay, because you did it, you said 10 years ago, which was well ahead of the COVID boom when I think a lot of us.

Tracy: Yes, exactly. Yeah, I must admit, that was one of the positives, you know, for during the Covid period, that I didn't have to worry about hair colouring or anything like that.

Helen: You've credited it with giving you a lot more confidence. Would you like to talk a little bit about that?

Tracy: Yeah, I think, I certainly felt, once I'd been allowed, you know, kind of really allowed it to, be clear that I was growing it out, not that just I was a bit delayed in getting to the hairdressers. People started accepting it, I began to accept it. And, I realized that actually it changed the way I look completely.

I'd always been really dark or I'd have, coppers or reds or, you know, those sorts of things. So physically, it changed me quite a lot. I think that, I felt like it took pressure off of me, in terms of, having to look and behave in a certain way and, I think it gave me confidence to just be more myself. Which I think I hadn't been. Previously I was in a very, structured business environment, and worked in London, and all over the World with my job and, so I was always suited up and very sort of sharp haircuts, and all the rest of it.

And it was actually really nice, being able to just not have to worry about having all the stuff done on my hair. But it also enabled me to look at myself and see someone different in the mirror, and actually see me, without an extra coating of colour or decoration.

Helen: And did it change your style at the same time? 

Tracy: Yeah, very much so. I mean, I think lifestyle change did as well, because I left my job and I was over here, and writing and creating and things in a different way, but I think the combination of them all. It was the hair that changed the style and the need, I think, to always be much more organized on that front. I felt a lot more freedom to choose different styles and, try different colours as well. 

Helen: Okay, so have you got more experimental with the way you dress since you've gone grey then? 

Tracy: Yeah, In some ways, yes, definitely. I've tried different colours, different cuts and fabrics that I wouldn't have done before. But then it's also over time, I mean, this has been now, probably six years, I guess. Yeah, six years. And so, , I've kind of got to the stage where I've pulled together a capsule wardrobe.

More than, having tons and tons of things to choose from. So, I went through that experimental period. And now I'm kind of finding the things that I like, and the things that are good for every day. 

And then just adding in some really interesting pieces. Because it's amazing, actually, how many different colours grey will go with in a way that my original, my unoriginal, fake coloured hair, you know, certainly clashed with some. So, it's interesting in several levels, I think.

Helen: Okay, so there are other colours that you wear now that you wouldn't wear before?

Tracy: Yeah, for sure. Green. I’d never wear green. Don't know why, because I really like it as a colour. But there are also colours now that I don't wear because I just don't like the contrast so much. So like mustards, you know, those sorts of things. But for me, greens, purples, blues, some really good burgundy, reds, those sorts of colours.

It just picks it up and really pops with it.

Helen: Okay, interesting. I couldn't wear black before I got some grey in my hair because my colouring is like a dirty blonde, I guess, and, with blue eyes, and black just made me look like I died. The contrast was so stark with all my other colouring, but now I've got the white streaks at the front, so I can almost get away with it.

Tracy: Yeah. Oh no, this tends to be my work uniform, if you like. So even though I work from, home probably 90 percent of the time, I tend to find in the mornings, if I'm just working for myself, I want to be something that puts me in the right frame of mind for work, but doesn't actually require me to do a great deal of thinking about it, so I can just get up and get on.

So, I tend to do black and navy.

Helen: Okay, yeah, I'm a big fan of Navy.

Can I ask you a question then, you've intrigued me a little bit about, do you see there's a difference to ageing in France, to what you see in the UK, in terms of how women are perceived as they age?

Tracy: Yeah, but it definitely varies between town and city, and country. 

Helen: Yeah.

Tracy: Women in cities and the bigger towns tend to age, with more style. A bit more daring. They tend to, be a bit more pushing the boundaries and trying, you know, different styles as they get older, different cuts. A lot of them do go grey, which is quite interesting. 

But then, in the country and in the smaller towns and villages, you do tend to see that women are ageing more traditionally, I suppose is the way I put it. They tend to not be quite so adventurous and, there's certainly a real leaning towards an older woman over here to have really short hair. A lot of women have pixie cuts. 

But in the cities, you often find that they've got longer hair. So, there's a difference in the way they do it. I think women embrace the passing of time with more acceptance over here. But they're very keen still on always taking good care of themselves.

Helen: So, on the subject of taking good care of yourself, have you changed anything else in terms of your lifestyle as you've aged?

Tracy: Yes, I've definitely gone much more for, a sort of simpler skin care, body care, hair care range. So, I'll choose things like Kiehl's or, we're very fortunate in France to have a lot of really good pharmacy brands, like Vichy and, Cordelie and the things like that. So, you can get a lot more really naturally based, skin care and body care over here as well. So, I tend to just have a really simple routine. And the one thing I can't really go without is Nuxe body oil. Which is something I've never really taken a great deal of interest in before. But I discovered it in a French pharmacy and, I can't live without it now.

And I use it literally from head to toe. So, I use it on my hair. I use it right down as far as my feet.

Helen: For moisturizing, presumably.

Tracy: It's a body oil, but you can use it as a facial oil serum or you can put it on your hair to stop the ends going too fly away. I like a much simpler skin care regime, but also one that's not really loaded with chemicals. I like things that are multifunction as well.

So, simplicity, I guess it's the same as with the wardrobe, you know, kind of you are narrowing it down.

Helen: which it sounds very French to me. And has it had an impact on your diet as well? 

Tracy: Um, well, I guess yes, in some ways. I tend to, I don’t diet-diet, I could probably do the same way as I have done throughout most of my life, done with them losing a few pounds here and there, but I enjoy food. I enjoy their life over here. And food is a really essential part of the way people live, sitting at Christmas Eve is when we have our Christmas dinner and, it's several courses and goes on for several hours. And Sundays, a lunch on a Sunday will be at least over two hours all set around the table.

So, it's a very different attitude to food, very different attitude. Fortunate to have lots of local markets. Plenty of fresh produce and, locally produced produce. So, I think the whole kind of process of, buying and cooking food over here is still very much, the way I remember it from when I was young, the way my mum did and my grandma did, you know, it's all, it's very much done on the day.

Helen: Okay, I'm going to pull you back to hair for a little while. So, your hair is well below your shoulders.

Tracy: It is.

Helen: Do you normally keep it loose or did you normally tie it back?

Tracy: Mixture really. I don't tend to, wash it every other day. I'll wash it maybe once, twice a week at most. It's definitely got thinner as I've got older as well. But I do a mixture. So sometimes I'll plait it. So, I'll have a plait down one side, or I'll put it up in a very loose kind of knot. The first and second day after I've washed it, I'll often tend to keep it down. But if I'm going out, I tend to tie it back, on the basis that it'll inevitably get wind swept. 

Helen: Mine gets tied back because I do a lot of walking and running and that sort of stuff and go to the gym. 

Tracy: Yes, exactly.

Helen: Do you do any of that sort of stuff as well?

Tracy: A lot of walking, but I live rurally, so I don't tend to have a gym close by. So, most of mine is walking, with a bit of, yoga when I feel so inclined on a mat.

Helen: Okay, but that's healthy. 

Tracy: I'm lucky, I live in the countryside, so there are a lot of places to walk, and a lot of places to, get out and explore. So, yeah, really nice.

Helen: Okay. And I'm just going to ask you, do you think there's any downsides to having gone grey? 

Tracy: If there is, I haven't found them, to be honest. I think maybe other people perceive there might be downsides. You know, in terms of their reaction to seeing somebody younger. I'm 57 now, but I don't regard myself as being old. 

But some people have said, oh, you know, they will literally ask me where I got my hair done. I was like, well, no, it's all my own work. And they're like, oh, and, that reaction is very much a kind of societal reaction, I think, still to people not expecting you to embrace them. Um, until you're, you know, well over on the ancient side of older. But personally, no, I haven't, I haven't found any issue with it myself.

Helen: And have you found that attitude the same in France as it is in the UK?

Tracy: No, not so much. But I think again, it's because there's more acceptance of people going grey earlier over here, that's sort of less of an issue. The one thing I read about recently in the newspaper over here was that, there was a debate, as there often is about these sorts of things in France, about whether or not, if you're grey, you should have long hair.

They believe that there's a strong, strong number of preference that if you're going grey, you cut your hair short and have this kind of pixie or bob style. So, there was a big debate recently because more women who are going grey younger are doing the same. They're letting their hair stay long, and doing more with it.

So, it's, definitely, it's a conversation piece over here, for sure.

Helen: Okay, that is interesting because I do think there are parallels there because there was definitely in the past in the UK, the perception that if you went grey, or even if you were over 40, that you shouldn't have really long hair, you should cut it short. And once you went grey, even shorter.

Tracy: Yeah. 

Helen: I think you've definitely seeing less of that now, which is good. Cause I think grey hairs has such a variety of colours in it. It's really pretty. And it's a pity that people feel they have to cut it short.

Tracy: it is, and, I noticed recently as well, there are quite a lot of, adverts on television that are showing older women with long grey hair. And I find that really, interesting and, empowering as well because they're including people who I see as looking like me as being, you know, representative now of a population.

Helen: Yeah, I do think there's definitely a lot more women now since, especially since lockdown.

Tracy: Yeah, I wish for

Helen: chosen to go grey and, haven't then said, okay, that's me stepping over the line of being old, I'll have my hair cut really short and I'll sit with my feet up and stop following fashion and all of those things.

Tracy: I think it's actually really quite liberating because, you know, it means I'm just responsible for taking care of it and getting it trimmed and, you know, keeping it clean and what have you. But I'm not a slave to having to remember every six weeks to go and have touch ups and re-colours done and all the rest of it.

I'm really enjoying not having to build that into my time as well.

Helen: not having the stress of roots coming through.

Tracy: Exactly, exactly.

Helen: Okay, so I'm going to ask you one last question. If someone came to you and said, I'm thinking about going grey, what would you say to them?

Tracy: Oh, I'd say embrace it, do it. Everybody has their own reasons for doing it. So, I think probably the most important thing is to be sure that you're ready to do it. Because there's no doubt, it does create a shift. You know, mentally, emotionally, physically, there are differences when you look in the mirror, your differences in how people initially react to the fact that you're, going grey and not following the norm of colouring your hair.

But as long as you're comfortable with why you want to do it, I haven't found a downside, my hair's in better condition. I feel, you more comfortable in my own skin. when I look in the mirror now, I see me and I don't see someone wearing hair, in the sense of having a different colour that's not, my own.

I'm, not at all averse, to people still colouring their hair. It's a personal choice, but for me taking that step, made a big difference to how I felt about myself.

Helen: That's fairly similar to me cause, I stopped colouring my hair not long after I left the corporate world as well. And it's kind of like shedding that skin of the person you were pretending to be all those years.

Tracy: Yeah. No, I think that's absolutely a thing as I do feel it was certainly part of my identity. You know, it's the whole package, isn't it? It's what you wear, how you comport yourself, the way in which you interact with people, and the way in which you live your life. My life is a lot less, structured and it's more creative.

It's more, you know, relaxed and, this now it's part of, that identity and, it's mine, it's not someone else's hair colour choice from, you know, when I sit in a salon chair.

Helen: Cool. Well, I've loved chatting to you.

Tracy: Thank you.

Helen: I'll wish you a fantastic rest of the day. And I hope that you have a nice sunny summer in France.

Tracy: Oh gosh, thank you, I hope so too and I've really enjoyed being part of your Going Grey Happily project.

Helen: Thank you.

Thanks so much for joining me for this week's show. I hope you've enjoyed it as much as I have. I'll be back again next week, but in the meantime, you can follow me on Instagram at happier. grey. Have a great week.