Episode 27 - With Deepa Gibson

In this week's episode I'm chatting to Deepa Gibson, who's in the process of growing out her dyed hair... but this isn't the first time she's gone grey. Listen in to find out what's different this time round.

Transcript

Happier Grey with Deepa Gibson

Helen: Hello and thanks for joining me, Helen Johnson, for the Happier Grey podcast. I'm pro-ageing and love my grey hair, but I know it can be quite intimidating to take the plunge, so each week I'll be chatting to other women who've chosen to embrace the grey in the hope of inspiring and supporting you, whether you already have silver hair, in the process of going grey, or just considering ditching the dye.

Today, I'm joined by Deepa Gibson. She's a digital marketing strategist at Tribal Impact, a leading marketing agency. She lives in Newcastle upon Tyne with her husband and their two children. 

Hello Deepa, how are you?

Deepa: Hi, I'm good thank you. How are you?

Helen: I'm good too, it's a sunny day. And I'm going on holiday tomorrow, so things are looking up.

Deepa: Holiday countdown has begun.

Helen: Indeed. So, the first thing I'm going to ask you is, when did you find your first grey hair?

Deepa: Oh, good question. I would say probably in my early 20s. I lived in London at the time and I remember kind of going, oh wow, I've got grey hair. But didn't really think about it beyond that. My mum has been grey for as long as I've known her, and I used to help her dye her hair when I was a teenager. So, it's not a brand new concept, you know, it wasn't like, oh my god. I just realised that my mum's went grey early and it would happen to me, so it was kind of like, oh, okay. 

Helen: And so, what happened with that first grey hair? Did you start dyeing it or did you just leave it?

Deepa: No, I didn't do anything. I kind of just left it, I went, oh I've got a couple, and I didn't think about it beyond that. Because you know when they're sort of sporadic, they look quite nice, and you don't really think about it. 

I think it was only when I started to realize it was a lot more, on my hairline, sort of around my temples and when it started to get really obvious clumps. That's when I started to play with my hair in terms of hair dye, with more like a distraction technique as opposed to covering them up.

Helen: Okay. So how old would you have been then?

Deepa:  Probably sort of 24, 25, maybe. I've always coloured my hair. Even when I was a student at Uni, I sort of did. you know, blocks of colour. 

So, I've sort of been experimenting with various bits of hair colour as soon as I was able to basically. Once I was allowed to dye my hair.

Helen: So, for context, your hair was black originally, was it, or dark brown?

Deepa: Yes, Yeah. It's solid black. So, like Asian sort of thick, dark black hair. 

Helen: Okay. And so, did you just keep playing with colour? Were you using like unusual colours like reds and pinks and stuff like that? 

Deepa: Yeah, I was. And I'm always under the belief that it's hair and it'll grow back. So, I've never really been that bothered if it has gone wrong. When I was a student at Uni, I decided I wanted it blue, so I bleached a large section of it and then put the blue dye on, but it didn't last very long so it went green.

So, it was like things like that that I did quite a lot. I had a cousin, she was studying to be a hairdresser, so she said, oh can I play with your hair? So, I let her put massive chunks of red in the bottom. Because she was learning to do it so I didn't have a problem with it. Because I knew if it went wrong, I could just get her to cut it out. 

But yes, I've definitely been a, an experimenter of hair dye and hair colouring.

Helen: Okay. Have you always stuck with unusual colours or did you eventually decide to dye it black?

Deepa: So, for a while I went back to black sort of thing. I was just colouring my hair and colouring my roots. And I had highlights in which were kind of along the lines of like shades of brown. Just to give it a bit more texture, a bit more colour. 

And then recently when balayage was a thing, which I didn't realize, cause obviously I'd got to the point where I'd stopped colouring my hair in various colours. And then my hairdresser recommended balayage to me.

And I was like, Oh, wow. So, I ended up having that for a couple of years. And that was only recently. So, I would say that was only in the last five years. And then I sort of just stopped. And just went back to black and just topped up the roots as it were. 

Helen: Okay. And obviously, you’re currently in the process of growing out your greys, but it's not the first time you've done it, is it? Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

Deepa: No. I'm also very fickle when it comes to colouring my hair. I think like many of us, I was at a lockdown, kind of started when I couldn't get to the hairdressers and I am not a boxed dyer. Because I enjoy going to the hairdressers. So that's been my challenge, that's why I think it's the second time I'm growing my hair out, is because I really enjoy going to the hairdresser.

I have a really good chat with my hairdresser. He's great with like, just you know, life. And when you're there colouring your roots and mine, it takes a long time for mine to stick. I'm usually there for a good two hours, with a glass of wine in hand and, you know, snacks and a book. 

So, when I do it in lockdown, I was like, I'm not going to go to box dye. I'm going to just, you know, let it grow out. And I did quite well with it as well, my hair's always been a very mid length. When it grew out to the point where I could chop it and it'd be a shoulder bob, I did go all the way to having a bob as well, and then I sort of went, ooh, this looks quite nice and kept it like that for a good couple of months.

And then I just got bored, and then went back to colouring it. And my hairdresser, we kind of compromised on them. I said, I didn't want to go back to a permanent dye. And he suggested a gloss. It took a while for the gloss, for him to get the right colour. Cause I didn't want it to kind of look too black.

I didn't want it to look like I had kind of orangey bits in the grey because obviously when you're using a gloss, it kind of is permanent, but it does kind of fade. But when you're going as dark as a black, it actually doesn't fade very well. So, if you look at my hair now, I've got various stages of like white roots, black gloss, brown gloss, back to black, and it's kind of got to this point where it's a bit streaky.

So, I'm going back to kind of just growing it fully out. It's quite long at the moment, and I think when it gets to the point, because at the moment it's just above my ear, and that is the really hard stage to be at, because you know it doesn't look right, but you know that you have to persevere.

Helen: Yeah, it's definitely the difficult phase. So anyway, I wanted to come back to the first time you grew it out. What sort of reaction did you get from people?

Deepa: Oh god loads of really weird. I remember an uncle looking at me going, oh my god, look at your hair. You know, the first kind of response you get from somebody. I had a couple of other people, when I said, oh, I'm thinking about colouring it back. They were like, yes, do. And you know, it was a very much a kind of, nobody really understood why I was growing it out because they thought, you know, hair dye is available. Why isn't she not dyeing her hair?

So, it was a very, yeah, it was very mixed. You know, quite a lot of people were really good, quite a lot of people positive. I've had quite a lot of chats with people online and with colleagues and we've just been talking about growing it out. I had a chat yesterday as well. They were like, are you really growing out again?

Cause I've been working at the same place for long enough to people to see, but I did it the first time around and now I'm doing it again.

Helen: And are you finding the sort of differences in reaction in terms of your family, and just other people?

Deepa: Yeah, I think so. One of the reasons why I got it coloured last was when I went to India in January. I got it coloured before I went.

Helen: Okay.

Deepa: And I got it coloured because of the reaction I knew I would get if I had the grey hair. Because it's very kind of, you don't want to look like you're older than you already are, in sort of Indian culture.

People can be quite critical of appearance. So, I just knew that if I didn't colour it, that I would get some reaction. So, I just got it coloured to save myself that conversation.

Helen: That you were expecting that other people were going to judge you and judge you badly for having made the choice?

Deepa: Yeah, definitely. It's very interesting when you see people look at you, , they do look at your hair and they look at your greys and then they look, kind of, you get that look of what, why are they not colouring their hair? Why are they growing out their grey?

Or why have they got grey hair? Or you get that, oh, you're not old kind of process. I don't think it's got anything to do with your age. It's just the way your body does things.

Helen: Yeah. So how old are you? I've never asked you this before.

Deepa: Oh, I'm 46.. 

Helen: Okay. So, in terms of what's natural. You're probably not old to have grey hair, but the perception, I guess, cause people. In lots of cultures have dyed their hair for a long time and dye it well into their 60s and 70s, I guess,

Deepa: Exactly. Yeah.

Helen: is that grey hair then looks old.

Deepa: Yeah, and it's acceptable when you get to that later in life as well. It doesn't seem to be, something that's frowned upon. I mean, I've got aunts that are in their 70s that still dye their hair, because they have that same perception of like, I need to colour it. And it's like, well, no, it's nice to, it's nice to have graceful and grow old as you do.

And, you know, naturally do it. But my mum has only just stopped dyeing her hair and she's in her early seventies. And that's been in the last two years, and she's just given up because she can't be bothered. 

Helen: And has she still left her hair long as she's grown it out?

Deepa: Yeah, hers is very grey. 

Helen: Okay. And have you seen the same sort of reaction from your other friends? 

Deepa: No, I think most people are quite used to me, doing what I want. 

So, they don't really question it or say anything. I haven't seen as many people this time round in person as I did last time. So, it was just after lockdown and it was like, you know, you were seeing more people you were gathering.

I don't actually live near my family as well. So, I don't see as many people. I guess the next time I go home to see family will probably be around Diwali time. And that's when it will probably be very grey, which will be October, November time. 

Helen: Yeah.

Deepa: Where it will be very much grown out. And if by that point I may have possibly got tired of it being this long, so I may just cut it to the length to the end of the greys.

Helen: And you're expecting it to be a conversation point when you go home?

Deepa: Yeah, definitely I am. The last time I went home, actually the last Diwali, one of my cousin's wives, she was growing her hair out. I'd say probably about five or six years older than me. And she, said she, she got sick of it and I was like, oh, I'm so glad that, you know, cause it's not very often that there's somebody in my family that's done that. And I don't think she remembers me when I did it the first time around, but when I said to her that I'm doing the same, she's like, oh yeah, do.

It'd be really good to compare notes because it's like, you know, the interesting reactions that she's been getting. Because her mother-in-law, in her 70s, still dyes her hair. But she stopped. So, I think it's very interesting, the same concept.

Helen: Okay. Well, I'll ask you a slightly different question then around ageing generally and how you feel about ageing. Are you comfortable with it? Do you think?

Deepa: Oh yeah. No, I definitely am. I think I quite like being an older person. I think I'm much more comfortable with who I am now than I was when I was younger. So, I feel like, for me, getting older has given me more confidence, to what I am and what I want to do. So yeah, I haven't got a problem with ageing at all.

Helen: And are you doing anything to kind of look after yourself as you're getting older in terms of health and fitness, and that kind of thing?

Deepa:  Health wise, I'm doing a bit more purely cause I'm at this stage where I'm perimenopausal and I've noticed differences, my hair was falling out quite a lot. And it's really thick. So, I noticed that sort of starting supplements. I've also got a bit of iron deficiency, so I've started to take iron tablets and things like that.

So, I'm definitely taking care of myself in terms of more health, purely just cause the stage of my life. I'm not exercising as much as I should. But that's next on my list. Because I do want to do some yoga and I've sort of dipped in and out of yoga, but that's one of the things I really want to get back into.

Helen: Okay. I guess, I mean, you're at a stage where you've got two boys, you've told me they're seven and 10. And you've got a full-time job, so you've got your hands rather full anyway.

Deepa: Yeah, exactly. 

Helen: Another question then, do you think your style has changed at all as you've let your hair go grey?

Deepa:  Probably, used to sort of wear quite sort of smarter clothes. But I think it's because I work from home, I think my style has turned into being a bit mumsy. If I’m honest.

So, I do wear a lot more dresses, but that's not to say that's mumsy, but I do feel like I have probably kind of gone for more kind of comfortable clothing. I'm not an active wearer mum. Or, you know, like the ones that go into leggings and to school, so I'm very much kind of wearing leggings. You know, not the activewear ones, and then for comfort. 

And wearing dresses for comfort, cause I work from home as well. So, it's kind of just whatever the top half is visible.

Helen: Yeah.

Deepa: So, I'm definitely more for comfort than I go for style, but I mean, I still appreciate decent brands. I shop quite responsibly now, as opposed to when I was younger, where I just buy fast fashion. 

Helen: And do you think the colours you're wearing have changed at all? 

Deepa: More experimental to be honest. I think I was a lot more blacks. There was a lot more kind of darker colours, you know, white and sort of blues, navy blues, I used to wear a lot. But I've definitely been wearing more colour, because I bought a teal dress for my birthday, and I've never really gone teal or aqua before, and I really enjoyed wearing bright colours, so I've definitely started to wear more colour.

Helen: And do you think that's a confidence thing generally?

Deepa: Yeah, possibly. And also finding the right clothing, you know, when you know you found something that fits really well, you don't really think about the colour. You think, well, actually I can wear any colour, as long as it goes with your skin tone and it suits you, I don't think there's many colours that I wouldn't wear.

Possibly yellow, but that's definitely a colour that I might avoid, but I think, I've definitely gotten more colourful with my clothing.

Helen: Okay. And what about makeup?

Deepa: I'm not a great wearer of makeup, to be honest. I think I'm definitely wearing less makeup, than I used to. Because I'm working from home and having video calls quite regularly, I don't tend to wear makeup during the day. 

And I also have vitiligo on my chin, and around my mouth area. So, if I do wear makeup, Occasionally, then I'll try and cover it up, but I've got to the point now where, that's not important either. So, if people can see it and they want to ask about it, then that's the way it goes. 

I really like wearing eye makeup, so I'll wear like thick black eyeliner and mascara, and that's pretty much it. And the occasional lipstick, but yeah. Not as much makeup as I used to.

Helen: Okay. Coming back to your hair then, are you doing anything special to look after it in terms of shampoos and that kind of thing?

Deepa: I've just bought a new one. But nothing specific. I tend to buy shampoos that are sort of the Kerastase ones that a salon, recommends just because I know that they're slightly better for your hair. And they do quite well for me because you know that someone's recommended the right one for your hair type. So, I've used those quite a bit. 

Just bought something from Beauty Pie, because I've got a Beauty Pie subscription, and I really like their products. And it's like a hair strengthening one, and I really like that. And I've bought some hair oil. And I've been wearing my hair curlier a bit more recently as well, so I've bought some curly shampoos that Instagram has told me to buy. I really like that. 

I'm definitely going into the more wavier low maintenance hairstyles. I used to be a serial straightener, you know, I used to straighten my hair a lot. But now I pretty much prefer to keep it wavy, kind of a wash and go style.

Helen: Okay. Which is probably better for it as it goes grey anyway, because with the heat it would go yellow.

Deepa: Yeah, and it's really coarse as well. So, all the sort of wiry greys that are sort of my head that are quite short, they sort of stick out in multiple directions anyway. And when you straighten it, it goes worse. Whereas if you leave it, it kind of sits better.

Helen: Yeah, I'm just very lazy with mine, so it rarely gets dried. What can I say.

Deepa: Yeah. No, I don't use the hair dryer. I mean, I know it's warmer now, but even when it's colder, I don't. I try not to use any sort of heat products on it anyway,

Helen: Okay. And your hair's pretty thick, isn't it? So, it must take quite a long time to dry.

Deepa: Yeah, I washed it this morning and it's still damp underneath.

Helen: I tend to find it's better if it's at least dry by bedtime, otherwise it does get quite a mess in the morning.

Deepa: Exactly, and I think because it's longer as well I do tend to do a very much kind of a bun on top of my head for convenience. So, if I start to do that too often then it does start to get a little bit funny so I have to make sure I leave it down when it's slightly damp.

Helen: Yeah. Okay. So, I'm going to ask you one last question. If someone came to you and said, I'm thinking about going grey, what advice would you have for them?

Deepa: I would say go for it, because it's quite nice, quite liberating. It's much more economical because it saves, it saves a fortune. It just means I don't go to the hairdressers often and obviously when you're just going for a cut. 

But I would definitely say go for it, because for all the positive responses you get there's only the one or two negative ones. And even then, that's just the way people are. You can't please everyone. As long as you're happy with your choice, I think, go for it.

Helen: Okay. And do you think you're going to stick with it this time or do you think you'll get bored again? 

Deepa: I'd like to say I'm going to stick with it this time because I think I'm enjoying it more this time around, which is a bit strange. I think I was very undecided when I did it last time. And I did cut it quite a few times, to try and decide on what length I wanted it as well. 

Helen: Yeah.

But I think, yeah, this time round it's quite nice.

Deepa: I'll stick with it for as long as I will, because I'm sure that I will probably get bored of it and do something with it. I keep getting targeted now on Instagram, with videos of people putting a kind of colour into it so that they're growing out naturally, so that you've got the roots and I must have watched like a couple of those now because I keep getting served them. 

And I was thinking, oh maybe I'll do that, like go to a hairdresser that would like strip the colour off. And then put something in the bottom length of the hair. So, I might play around with people, but they're generally all those videos are American, Australian. There doesn't seem to be many people in the UK to do that. Definitely not in the North East anyway.

Helen: I have spoken to a few.

Deepa: Oh, have you? Oh, I'll have to get some contacts off you then.

Helen: My hairdresser was saying the last time I was in, that the woman had come in to have it done there. But she was in like five or six hours having all the colours stripped out of her hair, because it was dark, and you have to do it gradually.

Deepa: Yeah.

Helen: Sounds mind numbing.

Deepa: Yeah. No, I did actually say that to my hairdresser the last time I went in when I went to get it cut. I did say, is it something that you offer? And they said, well, you have to come in and we'll have to experiment with it. Cause it's not something that we can just kind of do as a normal appointment.

 But they've never done that before. So I think they'd be quite impressed if they did have a go. I might ask them.

Helen: I'm wondering, I think the first time you grew it out it was maybe part forced upon you because of the lockdown.

Deepa: Yeah.

Helen:  So, you just didn't have a choice to continue. whereas this time you've made a much more active choice to grow it out. 

Deepa: Yeah.

Helen: Maybe that's why you're more comfortable with it.

Deepa: Yeah, I think so. I think it was very much, yeah, you've probably accurately analysed it.

Helen: Okay.

Deepa: I think, I'm much happier with the way it is. And I do quite like it being quite long. This is the longest it's been for a really long time. And even then, I'm not that annoyed with it. So I think it's, that's a good sign.

Helen: Okay. Well, I'm going to say thank you then, and I'll wish you a good weekend.

Deepa: Brilliant. Thank you so much.

Helen: Thanks so much for joining me for this week's show. I hope you've enjoyed it as much as I have. I'll be back again next week, but in the meantime, you can follow me on Instagram at happier.grey. Have a great week.