Episode 29 - With Brenda Kilgallon

Not going to lie, this week's episode is more about having a pro-age attitude, than it is about Brenda's grey hair journey. But Brenda's story was lots of fun anyway. And she does have plenty of tips on what type of make up works best with grey and silver hair.

Transcript

Happier Grey Podcast with Brenda Kilgallon

Helen: Hello and thanks for joining me, Helen Johnson, for the Happier Grey podcast. I'm pro-ageing and love my grey hair, but I know it can be quite intimidating to take the plunge, so each week I'll be chatting to other women who've chosen to embrace the grey in the hope of inspiring and supporting you, whether you already have silver hair, in the process of going grey, or just considering ditching the dye.

Today, I'm joined by Brenda Kilgallon. She's been in the workplace since the sixties and she's come to appreciate the passage of time. The opportunities that being older brings and the sheer, I couldn't give a damn about what others think, which is a cool attitude to have to ageng. I love it. So welcome.

Good morning.

Brenda: Good morning.

Helen: How are you today?

Brenda: I'm good except, I didn't realise there would be any visual, with this, so I haven't got any makeup on and to be brutally honest, I think most women over the age of 50 or 60 need a bit of, not so much makeup, but a bit of colour. 

I'm going to be pale and interesting, hopefully.

Helen: Well, two things. First of all, the listeners can't see you. And secondly, I never wear makeup or barely ever wear makeup, it's always just been on the too hard pile for me. 

I'm going to start by asking you, can you remember when you found your first grey hairs? How old were you and how did you feel?

Brenda: I don't know. I think pivotal ages for me have been 10, 15 and 19 from a youth perspective,

Helen: Yeah.

Brenda: I was a child in the fifties. You just played out all the time. You were with your friends all the time, it was a good time. 

When I was about 15, I realised I wasn't like my friends. I wasn't better, I wasn't worse, I don't mean that. I just didn't seem to have that much in common with them.

Helen: Okay.

Brenda: I don't know why, I've always felt, quite self-contained.

Helen: Okay. Yeah, I can understand that.

Brenda: I think that's been a key through my life. When you introduced me and you said, I don't give a damn, I don't. But I remember, a very good boss I had years ago. In my early thirties. 

And somebody had, given me some very, negative and, untrue feedback. And it really upset me. And I remember him saying, Brenda, you cannot be responsible for what goes on in someone else's head. And that has stayed with me for life. And he said, people will like you, they'll dislike you, they'll remember you, they'll forget you. That's about them, not about you. 

Helen: Yeah.

Brenda: I'm 73, if you get to my age and you haven't suffered some traumatic times, where have you been? I'm pleased at the passage of time. I think it's given me immense insight.

I now trust my intuition in a way that I didn't years ago. 

Helen: Yeah.

Brenda: And I was wrong not to. Whenever I get a strong I intuition that something’s not right, I immediately now back away.

Helen: Yeah. Yeah.

Brenda: Immediately but, at the same instant, if I get a strong intuition, yeah, it's drawing me forward, then I go for that.

Helen: Okay. I'm going to bring you back to your hair. And appearance generally, I guess. How long have you had white hair?

Brenda: Ooh, white hair. White hair's lockdown hair. Lockdown silver, I call it. I didn't go grey early, by the way. I didn't take after my mother. My mother went grey when she was about 30. I was into my 50s, but I didn't like the grey roots. 

So I started to have it done lighter, and they ended up going quite blonde. And because I've got naturally dark eyebrows, I thought that looks quite good. But it used to cost me a small fortune. And then when lockdown came, I couldn't have done, and then I liked the colour. 

If I go to networking events obviously there's always somebody there to, take photographs, I do still get a bit of a shock when I think, oh, who's that small grey haired person. Oh, it's me! 

Because I've shrunk. I used to be five foot four. I'm now five foot three. So, I think that extra inch is squashing down on my mid region, but there we are.

What I've had to do is change my makeup to make it more acceptable for the hair. If I don't wear makeup, I do look quite pale because the lack of pigmentation is in my skin as well.

Helen: Yes, 

Brenda: but like it. I'm not bothered about it at all really.

Helen: And so, in terms of makeup, do you concentrate more on sort of foundation or lips or eyes or all of them? 

Brenda:  I love makeup. And I think, as you get older, you need that colour in your face. So, I think the foundation is very important. But, I don't personally like matte makeup. I think it's ageing. I think you need something to give you a bit of glow and I've got lots of stuff that gives me a bit of glow and all the rest of it. 

I think that you need to define your eyebrows so I just put a bit of eyebrow mascara on.

Lipstick works. I think when you're grey, you should really stay away from nude lipstick. And you should always stay away from matte lipstick, because it makes your lips look thinner. 

So, I do think makeup's important, and I like makeup. I like wearing it. I would be natural on holidays, if I was somewhere sunny, but I'd still do the eyebrows and the lips to define the face. 

I think I'll be one of these old ladies sitting somewhere with my makeup bag on my knee. And a little mirror, just to check that I'm right. I've said to my sister, who's a few years younger than me, if I end up in a home, for God's sake, when you visit, make sure my makeup is okay. 

My sister's quite a wise woman, and she said you should never complain about being older, because it's a gift denied to many. 

I have to say I don't have the physical energy I had when I was in my fifties. So, I pace myself.

Helen: Okay.

Brenda: I still do what I did, but I pace myself. I used to have a lot of physical energy. I think I was probably a bit hyper actually. Now I've chilled.

Helen: So, do you exercise at all now? 

Brenda: I used to be an absolute exercise freak. 

We live in the heart of the country, in the Northumberland Hills, so the opportunities for walking. And both my husband and I, and friends, we used to do massive walking in the Lake District, before it was popular. In the days where you could walk for hours and never see a soul. It was fabulous.

Anyway, that's nostalgia out the way. I realized when I went to the doctor's I needed a hip replacement.

Helen: Okay. 

Brenda: So, because of lockdown, it took me a while to get the hip replaced, which is brilliant. Absolutely fantastic. But I haven't got back into exercising properly. So, I'm interested in something called chair yoga.

Helen: Okay. Yeah.

Brenda: So, I think I might start. Because when I exercise, I do feel better. And I think you owe it to your body. So that, is the number one thing I'm embracing now. And certainly, when I go into 2025, I want to feel a bit better toned, but also just a bit more lively, because I think the lack of exercise is impacting on my energy.

Helen: I think it does. To the point of being sensible, the more you do, the more energy you have, obviously you can do too much and wipe yourself out.

Brenda: Yeah, this is it. Way back in the 80s, high impact aerobics. It's a wonder I've got any knees left, actually. I mean, look at what they used to have you doing. Absolutely terrible. So, I'm surprised it was my hip that went and not my knees. So yes, I also think it's very good for mental health.

Helen: Yeah, completely.

Brenda: if I've gone out on a walk, even just locally, not a massive walk. And because we're lucky where we live, it's beautiful scenery, and it's quiet. I just feel refreshed.

Helen: Yeah.

Brenda: I do like fresh air. 

Helen: Yeah. I live in the Tyne Valley and I either walk or run every day. To get in the fields and down by the river. 

Brenda: It is a lovely thing to do, because I think so much of life now is, lived, people at their desks,

Helen: Yeah.

Brenda: at their laptops. 

Helen: I'm going to ask you a completely different question now around, Style and fashion. So, when you were a lot younger, I think fashion was a lot more singular in that everybody followed it. And there was less emphasis on individual style. Do you think that's changed over the years?

Brenda: From being about 13, 14 I knew that I wanted to wear things that were trendy, but a bit different, but I couldn't afford them. My mother had a sewing machine, so I used to go to Fennicks, and I had patterns, and buy just a length of fabric or something, for next to nothing. And I'd go home and I'd make the dress, and I'd wear it that Saturday night.

When I look back at old photographs, there was a sameness about what everybody was wearing, particularly in the 60s. But there was a little bit of individuality, a bit of rebelness going into that. 

And I always wanted to look a bit different. And I remember, having a boyfriend, he took me aside once and it was quite serious and I thought, oh no, he's finishing with me. Oh, what will I do? And he said, people are laughing at you because of what you wear. Seriously? 

I remember buying a velvet cloak and turning it into a maxi skirt.

In the 60s I saved up to buy a pair of, navy with cream trim patent leather block heeled shoes and they were five guineas. And my mother found the receipt, and went ballistic. She couldn't believe that anybody could spend what was then sometimes somebody's weekly pay. She couldn't believe that, that's what I'd spent. And to me, they were just adorable. I had to have them, and I was going to save up, and I was going to buy them. 

I love style, I love fashion. I think style is how you put something together. It could be fashionable. It could be trendy. I would call my style European chic, with a twist, something just a little bit different.

So, if I wear a denim jacket, in the collar, I've got like a diamante brooch.

Helen: Okay.

Brenda: What I would like to see, be perfectly honest, is in younger women in particular. I'd like to see some individual style. I’d like to see them doing things for themselves.

Everybody says wear what you want. And I'm nodding. But in my head, I'm thinking, no don't. Wear something stylish. Clothes should be more an expression of who you are.

 But I understand that when you're 18, 19, you might want to look like your friends.

Helen: Yeah. 

My mum used to make a lot of my clothes when I was little. And I can remember going to a birthday party and I would have been no more than 10. And my mum was really trendy. So, she made me a little pair of hot pants and a little tunic.

Brenda: Wow.

Helen: And all the other girls were in party dresses. And I was just absolutely mortified because I just felt so out of place. Sticking out like a sore thumb.

I do think it probably takes time to develop the level of self-confidence and self-esteem to be able to feel that you can wear things that are individual, and not follow the crowd.

Brenda: Yeah, it very much does. And I think, as I said before, I am quite self-contained and, I've never really followed the crowd. I don't know why. 

You have to get to a certain age where you think, this is me, this is who I am. I'm happy in my own skin, not wearing anybody else's. But that does come, it does come with time. 

I like to think as you get older, what we have to offer is huge life experience and there's no substitute for that. Absolutely not. 

I follow a young lady called, Jacynth Bassett. She says, Ageism is never in Style. You might have seen that. 

I met Jacynth probably when she was just late twenties. I was in Birmingham doing some work, and I came across her, and she was selling clothes then. She still has a clothes site. She was doing it because her mum couldn't find anything, like modern to wear. But she is an amazing woman. And she is all about being pro age and looking at age in a different way. 

I think where we could start, is in the workplace. Because I accept, we need people coming through, we need young people. I'm a big believer in apprenticeships. But I do think you need a balance in the workplace.

And because somebody is 60, say, if they want to continue working, they've probably got so much to offer. And I remember when I used to do management and leadership training and work with groups. I worked in this company numerous times. And this guy came and he said, look, he said, I've been put on your program that you're starting next month.

And he said, but I'm retiring next year. Is it worth me doing it? I said God, yeah. I says, you will be such an asset in that group. Because you will have a different perspective in many things. And you'll probably be the anchor in the group. And he was really pleased. Oh right, oh I'm going to do it then.

I says, yeah do it. But I said, do it for yourself as well. But I says, you will be that group's anchor. And he was.

Helen: hmm.

Brenda: He was, because some of the young people were saying, oh, did we used to do it like that? Oh right, well that doesn't sound too bad. I’m with Jacynth on this, I think we need to be pro age.

People are living longer, they're having to work longer, sometimes because they want to, sometimes because they've got no choice. We have to embrace that. And years ago, when we had more of a community and village mentality, older people were really valued for, who they were, what they'd done, what they brought to that community.

I think that might be what we've lost with a lot of the remote working and the technology, that sense of community. That we all need to feel as though we belong. That's a human need. If you're familiar with Maslow's hierarchy of needs.

Helen: I'm a marketer, so yes, obviously.

Brenda: There you go.  I thought you wouldn't be, but I thought I’d check.

I mean, ultimately, yeah, we want to self-actualize. We want to be all that we can be. But before that, I think we need to feel we belong.

Helen: Yeah. 

Brenda: I think that we're missing that. And I think young people are as well.

Helen: I'm just going to ask you one more question. 

Brenda:  Okay.

Helen: Which is if someone came to you and said, I'm thinking about stopping dyeing my hair and going grey, what would you say to them?

Brenda:  I would just say do it, because at the end of the day, if you don't like it, have it dyed.

You can go back to that. I would say, remember that the loss of pigmentation in your hair is mirrored in your complexion. So, you will need warming up a little bit.

This is why I think sometimes if you see somebody with grey or silvery hair and they've got a good suntan.

Helen: Uh huh.

Brenda: It really looks good because of the contrast. So, I’m not saying be tangoed and be all orange, I'm not saying that. I'm just saying warm up the complexion, define the eyebrows, and wear a bright-ish lipstick. You don't have to go crimson red, but something that lightens up your face. 

Grey hair is not what it was. And I mean now there are models in their 60s and 70s, and I believe there's a lady in her 90s as well, and the agencies are wanting grey haired models, so attitudes are changing. 

Grey hair at one time meant, oh well you've got grey hair. And of course, in my mother’s day, decent women didn't dye their hair did they? You went grey and that was it. That's ludicrous. 

Grey hair people say it's a badge of honour. Well, I think that's a bit over the top. I don't think it's a badge of honour. I just think, it can look good, and it is who you are. But as I say, if you go grey, look at yourself and adjust the makeup and if you still like how you look, go with it. If not, have your hair dyed back. You're not stuck with it for the rest of your life.

Helen: This is true. Well, anyway, I'm going to say thank you so much for joining me. You've been fascinating to talk to

Brenda: Oh, thank you very much.

Helen: and enjoy the rest of your day.

Brenda: Thank you, Helen, for asking me. I'm privileged to be asked. I'm most appreciative pro age. Pro age.

Helen: Thanks so much for joining me for this week's show. I hope you've enjoyed it as much as I have. I'll be back again next week, but in the meantime, you can follow me on Instagram at happier.grey. Have a great week.