Episode 38 - With Helen Calvert

This week, you've got two Helens! In this episode I'm chatting to Helen Calvert who has never dyed her hair and just has a smattering of greys... but she's got no plans to dye it, because she's comfortable with her age and doesn't see any reason to try and hide it.

Transcript

Happier Grey Podcast with Helen Calvert

Helen J: Hello and thanks for joining me, Helen Johnson, for the Happier Grey podcast. I'm pro-ageing and love my grey hair, but I know it can be quite intimidating to take the plunge, so each week I'll be chatting to other women who've chosen to embrace the grey in the hope of inspiring and supporting you, whether you already have silver hair, in the process of going grey, or just considering ditching the dye.

Today, I'm joined by Helen Calvert. She's the no bullshit coach, a life coach working with you to develop your inner strength, clarity, and your ability to put yourself first. She's the host of the No Bullshit Guide to a Happier Life Podcast, and author of a book of the same name.

Hello, Helen. How are you?

Helen C: Hello, Helen. Two Helens together today. Thank you so much for having me.

Helen J: I'm going to start by I'm trying to understand a little bit about your hair story.

Helen C: So firstly, as I was just saying to you, I do have my puppy in the background. So, if it sounds like something is chewing cardboard, that's the dog, not me. But yes, my hair story, it's a funny one, because it's always been important to me. 

I've never been a makeup wearer. I've never really got to grips with it. I'm autistic. So, there's lots of things I don't understand, and makeup has never really come into my life to be honest, but I've always liked my hair to be clean, to be nice. I like having my hair cut. I love my hair, as you can see on camera, it's quite thick, it's very dark. So yeah, I've always loved my hair. 

I've got like smatterings of grey all the way through it. You wouldn't instantly think I was grey. But when I see photos of the back of my hair, or you see me up close, there's like lots of little strands of grey going through it. 

When that started to happen, I just thought I'm not going to do anything about that, because it didn't strike me as a problem. Which to someone like my Mum, who's coloured her hair almost my whole life was really like bizarre. 

I've heard, some of your other podcasts and there are many people out there, aren't there? Who just think, well then you colour it, it's obvious. That's just what you do. And I just thought, Nope, I'm good. Thanks.

Helen J: So, when did you find your first greys that you can remember?

Helen C: Oh, my goodness that’s a really good question. It was a good while ago now. I think as it always does, it started off with maybe one or two and I would pull them out. I think that's kind of the initial thing you see, like a white hair or grey hair.

Although I think I always had a couple of white hairs, because I seem to remember my mum pulling them out when I was like much, much younger.

It was probably about 10 years ago now, it's been a long time. 

Helen J: Yeah.

Helen C: And then it started to get frequent enough that my hairdresser was saying, do you want it coloured? My mum was sort of saying, are you going to have it coloured? And I just thought no, because I don't see ageing as something I want to hide. 

Which I know sounds utterly bizarre to many people, but I've got happier over my life. So the me who I am now is much happier than the person I was in my 20s. So, I don't have anything I'm trying to preserve, if that makes sense. 

It's the same with I've got two children. So, my body's obviously changed over the years, like it does. And I used to be a flat stomach, skinny little size eight, 10. I mean, skinny was the word people would have used about me. It's definitely not a word you'd use about me now. But I absolutely love my body now, and would never go back to how it was in my 20s, because as I say, I wasn't happy in my 20s. 

So, you can keep your skinny, full head of dark hair. I'm much happier now. 

in my sort of funny little logic, that just makes sense to me. I don't want to cover up who I am now because I've worked hard to get to this age. 

Helen J: Okay, that actually does make a lot of sense. Because many of the women that I've spoken to have been the opposite. In the sense that they have dyed their hair, and then they've come to a point where they're at peace with where they're at in the aging process, and therefore they're then comfortable to accept

Helen C: Yes.

Helen J: the greys and grow out.

Helen C: Yeah, well this is

Helen J: But you didn’t kind of go through the transition.

Helen C: Yeah, and it's all about how we see ourselves, isn't it, Helen? As a life coach, I love people's stories about themselves. I find it all fascinating. 

And there are certain things when it comes just purely to appearance, like I wouldn't go out the house without earrings in.

But I always go out the house without makeup. And I know a lot of women would never leave the house without makeup. So, we all have our funny little things that we think are important.

 It just happens to be the case that grey hairs are not a worry to me at all. I guess, I also like the fact that I have lived 44 years, because I have 44 years of experience, and 44 years of, well, some wisdom, only a little bit, but, something to bring that I certainly didn't have when I was younger.

And again, I don't think of it as advertising that, but I wouldn't want to hide. I wouldn't want to pretend to be younger than I am because, you know, the older you are the more you bring to the table. 

Helen J: I think that’s a really great attitude. We're such a youth obsessed society, certainly in terms of marketing and the way things are promoted to us,

Helen C: Yes, absolutely.

Helen J: I can kind of see why people feel the pressure.

Helen C: Yeah, and it goes back to so many things. Like, I know people who were, very, not happy, I don't think happy is the word, but felt like themselves when they were teenagers, or in their 20s. And that was the time they really felt like themselves, maybe as they've got older, they've lost themselves a little bit, which is a very common story, especially amongst women.

So, I can understand then the drive to go back, not want to surrender to the ageing process because the aging process hasn't felt good. But not because they're getting older, just because perhaps they've lost themselves a bit along the way. 

I found myself along the way, so it's much more joyful for me. It feels like I'm going in a direction of more and more authenticity, more joy, more adventure, more finding out who I am. So that is a very different journey. 

I can understand why people would want to go back. And maybe when I'm in my 80s, I might wish I was in my 40s again. I don't know, but we'll just have to wait and see, won't we?

 I hope this isn't the peak. I like to think things just keep getting better, but we shall see.

Helen J: I'm gonna ask you a few more questions about your hair then. 

Helen C: Yeah, of course.

Helen J:Have you ever coloured it?

Helen C: So I tried to have, lowlights put in it once, not to colour or cover up grey, but just to have a bit of colour in it. I think I fancied something interesting, maybe a bit of red or something. And my hair is just so dark, it doesn't take colour. Even the lowlights, it just made it shiny. So, it looked great, but it didn't do anything to it. 

So I've realised that to, put colour in my hair, you know, like pink or blue or something crazy, I'd have to bleach it first. And I don't want to do that to my hair. As I say, I love my lovely thick hair and it's in good condition. I don't want to mess with it.

So no, I've never done anything exciting with it. I'd be happy to, for a bit of fun, but I think it would be a lot more complicated to dye my hair as it is at the moment. If it goes more grey, then that's a bonus, because that means maybe I can put some proper colour in it and have a bit of fun with it.

Helen J: Okay, it sounds like hair is quite central to your identity though. 

Helen C: Yeah, it's a funny one, isn't it? Because I don't think about it that much. I mean, my hairdresser despairs of me because I don't do anything with it. She cuts it, I wash it, that's it. You know, I'm not one of these people who's like curling it and doing special things with it. I can't cope with anything like that.

But, yeah, I do love it. I just love the way it looks and I'm hesitating to say that. Because of course a lot of people, if they love something about themselves in terms of appearance, they then work very hard on it because we find it hard just to accept things the way they are, don't we?

Whereas I'm like, I love my hair, so I just leave it to itself. I just let it do its own thing. Sometimes I put it in a ponytail. I love a ponytail. That's about it. That's about all I do. But yeah, I think if I lost my hair, that would be a big deal to me. Whereas, there are perhaps other things about my appearance that are less central, but yes, it would be.

And on that subject, I do actually have, I know your audience can't see, but on the top of my head, underneath all this thick hair, I have a bald patch that's about, oh, how big is it? It's pretty sizable, it's about 5cm in diameter. And that's because I had a basal cell carcinoma removed from my scalp, which is a benign skin cancer.

And I had a skin graft to cover over where it had been, because I'd let it, grow for far too long. And that initially I thought, well, I'm going to have to have that covered up. I can't have a bald patch. I'm going to have to do something about that.

But all of the ways that the plastic surgeon told me that we could get hair back in that spot sounded so invasive, and like painful, and uncomfortable, and a pain in the backside. And I just thought, Nope, I don't care enough. So, for a long time, I kept my hair tied up. And now I just think if people know me, they know it's there.

My hair's very thick, so it's not always visible, but sometimes it is. It's funny, isn't it? What we care about and what we don't. And I think familiarity breeds, well, they say familiarity breeds contempt, but it doesn't. Familiarity breeds acceptance and I think now it really doesn't worry me, because I'm still me. Nothing's changed.

Helen J: I can honestly say, obviously, I have met you in person, and I didn't notice.

Helen C: My hair is so thick, Helen, honestly. It would have to be a windy day, and it would sort of have to get blown, and then you might see it. Or if I'm bending down it could drop and you might see it. But yeah, there's a lot of hair on this head. So, it covers up a multitude of sins.

Helen J: Have you always had it long?

Helen C: No actually, when I was about eight years-old I had it cut really short. And my grandmother had caniptions because I looked like a boy, which to her generation was the end of the world. But I quite liked it short, and I've had it short at other times during my life. 

But short hair, because it's got a natural wave to it, my hair's not naturally straight, I wouldn't even call it curly, it's just wavy. So short hair requires a bit more attention, because it just kind of goes in its own direction. Short hair was a little bit too much work for me. 

I'm really not into having to do work on my appearance. There's too much to do in life. I like to get up, get clean. and get dressed. That's it. That's what I do. 

So, when people say, oh, I take ages to get ready for a night out. And I'm thinking, what do you do after you put your clothes on? What else is there? But yeah, I'm definitely different in that way. 

But then as I say, I do care about my accessories. I love nice earrings. I love nice shoes. I like nice clothes. I don't have the money to buy lots of them, but if I did, if I had a lot of money, I would definitely spend it on clothes and shoes and accessories, rather than makeup and hair products and all that kind of thing. 

So yeah, it's not that I'm oblivious. It's just different things matter to me, I suppose.

Helen J: In terms of aging, obviously, if you're 44, I guess you're heading into perimenopause.

Helen C: Yeah, yeah. it's certainly on the horizon. It's certainly something my friends are experiencing. It's an interesting one for me, because I've only known for the last two or three years that I'm autistic.

Helen J: Mm hmm.

Helen C: Before that I thought I was anxious. I was diagnosed with anxiety, and I've been taking medication for anxiety for some time. Because I've been dealing with my mental health,, and learning about it, and then learning about my neurodivergence for a good 20 years, the symptoms of perimenopause are not going to be particularly new to me.

A lot of the things that people are experiencing, I'm like, yeah, welcome to my world, yeah, that sounds normal to me. On the one hand, I might sail through it, because it's kind of how I live anyway, or it might hit me like a ton of bricks because it will be on top of everything else. I have yet to find out, but so far, we're not there yet. 

A lot of my friends are going through it, and it's so good how much it's being talked about, in this generation. Cause my mother's generation, it just wasn't discussed. I mean, I couldn't tell you anything about my mum going through the menopause. She obviously will have done, but I couldn't tell you anything about it. And knowing as I do now, what it involves and what it can be like, it's heart-breaking to me that anyone felt the need to hide it, cause it's huge.

And it can be so hard. I'm so glad that we now live in a society that is willing to discuss it openly. Not least because I discuss everything openly. So, if we didn't, I'd be the only one talking about it. I'm glad it's not going to be taboo for anybody else either.

Helen J: In terms of ageing healthily, I'm guessing that you're interested in doing that as much as possible?

Helen C: Yeah, I am. The biggest thing I've done is started weight training, because my boyfriend used to be a power lifter. He's always been a gym boy. You know, he does loads of weights.

And he was very encouraging of how important it is for health in general, but particularly for perimenopausal women, menopausal women. t has so many benefits, apart from simply being exercised. So, I've been doing that, and that I think is going to stand me in really good stead. And then I'm active anyway.

As I mentioned, I've got a puppy, but I used to walk a lot anyway before I got her. I'm not someone who focuses on exercise, but I do focus on getting outside and getting moving, because I know how important that is for me. 

Having said that though, when it comes to food, I know how to eat healthily. Often, I completely ignore that, because like a lot of us are, I'm an emotional eater. Life isn't easy. So, I do try to give myself a break on the diet side. 

I don't worry too much about how much cake is going in as long as some vitamins and fibre is going in as well. I'm quite gentle with myself on that score, because I think a lot of the messaging we get around food, really ignores that food is not just fuel. Food is a dopamine reward. It's an emotional thing. 

There are so many stories around it. And If you have wobbly mental health, then being strict with your food intake can actually be just so, so unhelpful. It's a real balancing act between mental and physical health, I think.

And I'm fortunate enough that I have got a bit of grace to eat the things that, perhaps are not optimum. Because I'm still within a healthy size range, but it's a tricky one. So, exercise. As in movement and weight training is brilliant for me, because as long as I do that and get some healthy food in, I feel like I'm doing okay.

Helen J: Yeah, so how often do you do the weight training?

Helen C: Do you what, I only do it once a week, and a lot of people have been surprised by that. Because I’ve got fitter, I’ve got stronger, and it's kind of oh, how often do you go? And they think I must go all the time. 

But I go once a week, and I have a personal trainer. And she gets more out of me than I would ever get out of myself. I reckon she gets about four times as much out of me than I get out of myself. I really do, because I'm very motivated when it [comes to some things, but when it comes to exercise and things that make me uncomfortable, I'm not very good at pushing myself through. So, she gets a lot out of me. 

And what I think is a really important message is that doing it consistently, so I mean in the last three years I've probably missed two weeks. Doing it consistently has a massive impact. It's not about, ooh, I must force myself to be there every day. It's just do it, however often you do it, do it. And then that will make a difference. 

My strength has just changed dramatically. And that feels good as well. It feels powerful. You know, I'm the kind of person that can help somebody lift furniture and carry things around. I don't need to ask for help. That feels good. I think there's a confidence in that.

One of the most meaningful things for me with weight training and I'm not quite there, but I saw something online that said, if you can deadlift your own body weight, then you can literally pick yourself up. As in, you know, sort of pick yourself up from hard times or whatever. And that just felt really meaningful to me. 

And I'm about, oh, I'm about three or four kilograms off being able to do that. I'm very nearly there. 

But I can pick up multiples of my children, which they find quite entertaining, even though they're a movable load. So, it's not as easy as a barbell, but I can. 

With all the stories we have about aging in this society and women, going crazy or losing the plot or weakness and all kinds of things. I think being strong, being physically strong and that helping our mental strength is really important. It's probably one of the few things I get a bit evangelical about. I’m usually the kind of person who's like, you've got to find your own tools, find what works for you. But when it comes to weight training, I'm like, yeah, everybody should do that.

Helen J: I do it twice a week. 

Helen C: That's awesome.

Helen J: I've never tried to do deadlifts, other than in lots of reps.

Helen C: Yes. 

Helen J: I can do 10 reps of 60 kilos, and I weigh about 70 kilos.

Helen C: That’s fantastic.

Helen J: But I've never tried to do 70.

Helen C: Yeah. You only need to do it once and then that's what you can lift. So yeah, it feels good. And it's just those little aims, isn't it? And it's having aims that are meaningful to you. 

Because when I started, I knew about three people who were already weight trainers, so I said to them all, what can you lift? What can you do? And they all said, it doesn't matter, just compare yourself to you. And I thought, oh no, I need some kind of benchmark.

It very quickly became, here's where I started and here's where I am now. And that is the most meaningful thing. It really doesn't matter what anyone else is lifting, because nobody else has your body, your circumstances, but when you start beating yourself, that's a brilliant feeling. It's like, I can lift so much more than I used to be able to. It feels so good.

Helen J: I always find it really interesting because there are some people I go to the gym with, I do small group PT and, some people are very competitive. If they see someone else lift a particular weight or row a particular weight, they have to do it. Whereas I'm like, I really don't care.

Helen C: I mean, if it motivates them, I guess that's great. But I think it's a shame, because much like I was just saying about food, so much more goes into exercise than just how physically fit you are. Especially as women, our abilities change with our cycle. So, you have to have a personal trainer who understands that, your strength and your ability will change with your menstrual cycle.

Certainly, for me, I don't know if this is a neurodivergent thing or if this is everybody, but if I'm feeling a lot of emotional discomfort, I can handle less discomfort in the gym. So, there are days when it's like, yeah, let's do loads of cardio, and do this circuit, and I'll get really sweaty and feel really good.

And other days where it's like, I am absolutely not attempting that. Life is uncomfortable enough. Thank you very much. I want to do bench where I get to lie down, and that's what I'm doing. There's so much more goes into it than just, am I stronger than you? So I think comparing ourselves, often it is a route to being miserable, which is not the plan.

Helen J: I'm going to ask you one last question. If somebody came to you and said, I'm thinking about going grey, what advice would you have for them?

Helen C: In a very life coachy way, I would ask them what their stories are about people who go grey, people who don't go grey. And just to think about the story they want to tell in their life. So, is it a rebellion against something? Is it a celebration of something? I think that anything that we do is usually about stories that we might not even be aware of.

But if we can be aware of what it is we're telling ourselves, because there's so many things we think are true, and they're not true, they're just stories, just something that we were told as children, or whatever it might be. But if we understand the stories we're telling ourselves, we can make more informed decisions.

So, if someone said, I'm gonna go grey, I think my only real response would be, good for you, that's fantastic, you know, you do you. I think it's more the people who feel like obviously, like it's a given, obviously you colour your hair, and you have Botox, and you do this, that, and the other.

Which is fine, but is that coming from a place of, because these are my values, and this is how I live? Or is that coming from a place of, because I grew up believing that people who didn't do those things were somehow lacking. You know, it's an awareness, isn't it, of what we're, trying to say, because of course, in another culture, in another time, grey hair would have been seen as a sign of wisdom, it would be something that you respected. 

So, it is all stories, there's no truth to it. It's not, you have to do this or you have to do that, it's just depending on what we believe. But yeah, anyone telling me that they're going to just live their life the way they want to, I'm all in favour of that, no matter what it is they're doing, so I would celebrate them wholeheartedly.

Helen J: Brilliant. Well, thanks so much for joining me. It's been lovely chatting to you.

Helen C: Oh, thank you for having me, Helen. It's been really nice.

Helen J: Thanks so much for joining me for this week's show. I hope you've enjoyed it as much as I have. I'll be back again next week, but in the meantime, you can follow me on Instagram at happier.grey. Have a great week.