Aileen: 0:02
In this episode, we are joined by founder and CEO of WBagadion, Weng Bagadion. Weng has been providing consultancy to both private and public organizations in the last 24 years, focusing on empowering leaders and helping investors achieve their bottom-line goals. WBagadion provides a full line digital agency service, focusing on developing organic, gamified e-learning. Weng joins this episode to talk about how gamification can be used as a tool for efficient learning and recall as well as best practices in the industry today. Thank you for coming over today. And we know WBC is big on gamification. Can you tell us what gamification is, how it started, how it found its way to the corporate setting?
Weng: 0:47
In very simple terms, gamification is the application of game elements and game principles in a non-game context. So, some people would say, what are those game playing elements that you're referring to? These would be giving points, competitions, having rules of play or rules of engagement, and similar activities. Ideally, there should be some sort of a reward when you're talking about a game. There are obviously the elements of reward. How it was able to find its way to the corporate setting, you'll find in the internet a lot of different opinions about that. But I would say the most prominent one in relation to corporate setting is a book that was published in 1973. The book is called The Game of Work. And apparently that one was developed because of concerns about productivity in the United States. Of course, I'm coming from a background where a lot of our information are about the U. S. I would say that that is the earliest known application of games in corporate training.
Aileen: 2:21
It sounds like a lot of fun, and you mentioned productivity earlier. How else do you think gamification benefit a company and its employees?
Weng: 2:29
In terms of someone from learning development or training in general, obviously the most important thing would be if people are learning, if they're actually able to apply whatever they learn in their roles in the company. And so if you look at it from that perspective, the biggest benefit of gamification is effectiveness of the courses. In terms of the effectiveness of the courses, it would be impossible to consider it effective if people don't even want to go through the program, because that's actually one of the biggest challenges of any corporate training that is implemented, when people don't even want to sit down and listen to someone talking. So, you know how it is when people say, ah, I have to go into this training, I already have a lot of things that I need to do, now this is adding up into my calendar. So, you literally have to drag people to attend workshops, even though academically speaking, they understand. Even those that are hungry to learn, the fact that they have to sit for half a day or an entire day taking on trainings, workshops, and seminars, and adding them up to their usual tasks. It is very difficult. And with the e-learning, the digital, one of the biggest on of an online or digital training is that people can take it whenever they have the spare time, so you don't have to be seated together synchronously. You can do it after you finish your task this afternoon, or you can even take it at home with you. Some companies would allow you to access them, even when you're at home. So the biggest challenge that corporate training has, other than effectiveness, is how to engage employees. So there's one time we were told that employees who are, who have gone through the training program, unlike before that they are rushing to finish it, they're rushing to get out. They notice that even if they have already completed the module, they're coming back multiple times. And this, is to give a little context, this is in relation to a role-playing game, which is very similar to the generic choose your own adventure. That depending on the choice that you made, it will go to a different storyline or it will go to a different scenario. And learners find it really engaging, they find it really fun to go through the course over and over, only to find out what is going to happen if I choose A. And because of that, people learn more. People learn better. Because repetition, not only in terms of you know, it's not a root memorization, but repetition of something, definitely enhances your understanding, especially when these are scenario-based. So, first of all, you have the effectiveness brought on by more engagement. And because of that effectiveness, bottom line is, it is potentially going to contribute to the productivity of the learners. And when you have higher productivity, obviously, the performance evaluations are also much higher.
Aileen: 7:11
I love how that touched on a lot of very tangible pain points. So now we're in that headspace where companies know exactly why they need this. What are sample activities of gamification that you think a company can do DIY and what else they can do if they have a company that specializes in gamification? What are those activities going to look like?
Weng: 7:36
There's some misunderstanding that gamification is only digital, that it is something you can only do when you are talking about electronic learning or online learning or hybrid learning. That is not true. Gamification in its truest form is not just digital elements. It is putting the elements of game into nongame context, and you'll notice that in that purest definition, there is no mention of digital. So, in the simplest form, gamification can be as simple as giving badges, giving recognition, or as I said a while ago, rewards. For completing modules or full-on courses, it can have the element of competition that says, whoever finds the flag, whoever finishes first will get these and that. That's already a form of gamification in training. Where companies would need the help of another company or an external consultant that specializes in gamification would be in looking holistically at a corporation's objectives, not only in terms of Meeting learning objectives, but all the way up to measuring the impact of learning on the employee's productivity.
Aileen: 9:32
That's great. I love that bit where you mentioned you are able to see the bottom line, not just for sales, but for any other department, which I think is the best way to justify spend on an activity like this. So now that I'm in that headspace where I know it keeps my employees engaged, productive and probably happy because it makes an otherwise tiring job or tiring learning activity easier. I can also justify the impact on the bottom line of a company. So now that I am in that space where I want to hire a company, what are the green flags that I should look for, or what are the questions that I should ask for a partner in gamification?
Weng: 10:18
You should be looking for someone who is willing to grow with you, meaning to say they don't mind starting with a small contract with you. Because if someone wants a huge contract from the very beginning, that might be in some cases a red flag, but someone who will say, I'm okay to start small with you, provided that there is a vision, there's a bigger vision for this. I don't mind earning 30,000 Euro on a first project. I don't need a 3 million euro. And that has been our experience as well. Our clients, we grow with them. We service them for decades. Because we help them imagine, dream big, start small, and grow along the way.
Aileen: 11:12
Now that we are in that space, and we're on the tail end, what are the industry best practices in creating gamification initiatives? Are there certain things, aside from finding a third party to connect those two, what are the other best practices that you are seeing?
Weng: 11:29
In our 23 years of experience, there is one that stands out all the time. And that starts with the letter O, Organic. We say that learning content, whether or not you're going to gamify it, and even more so if you're going to gamify it, needs to be organic. And what do we mean by organic? Organic means that it is owned by the company. It reflects the organizational culture of the company. It is written in the language that people in the company understand. The images that are being used are something that's familiar with people. So, say for example, organically, the people in the organization are normally dressed in suits rather than in t-shirts and jeans or the other way around. If people start seeing representatives of themselves in an e learning program, they would want to see people that look like them. And that's a very baseline. We are not even talking about values. The values, as I said, the culture of the company should be reflected in the training material so that you don't feel like it's a training that was just bought off the shelf and being delivered to you.
Aileen: 13:07
That's great. This has been really, really valuable. Thank you again, Weng. Can you tell our listeners how they can find you or where they can find you?
Weng: 13:16
Sure, be happy to. If you'd like to get in touch with us and find out how we could help you make your successful gamified corporate training, please feel free to visit our website. That is at www.wbagadion.com. You could also check our LinkedIn page. And alternatively, if you'd like a quicker, faster way of messaging us, you can do it over. WhatsApp at number +63 917 184 5353