10: We Support Cassie With Vanessa Reiser

Vanessa Reiser, a psychotherapist specializing in narcissistic abuse, discusses her work and personal experiences with domestic violence and cult abuse. She highlights the manipulative tactics used by narcissists and cult leaders, emphasizing the psychological damage they inflict. Vanessa also discusses the challenges of seeking justice in the court system and the importance of supporting survivors. The conversation touches on the recent video of domestic violence involving Cassie Ventura and Diddy Combs, and the need for validation and understanding for survivors of narcissistic abuse. The distinction between PTSD and narcissism is also explored. The conversation explores the genetic and environmental factors that contribute to narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) and sociopathy. The speakers discuss the interplay between genetics and abuse in the development of these disorders, as well as the role of empathy in society. They also touch on the impact of toxic relationships and the importance of believing victims of abuse. The conversation concludes with advice for navigating narcissistic relationships and information about the guest's upcoming book on narcissistic abuse.


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Transcript

terra (00:01.363)
Hi Vanessa, thank you so much for joining me today. I'm really excited to have you because we've been friends for how long now? Like three or four years? Approximately. And you have such an incredible story of what you do to raise awareness on narcissistic abuse with a wedding dress running New York State in a wedding dress for how many miles?

Vanessa Reiser, LCSW (00:10.127)
Yeah, approximately.

Vanessa Reiser, LCSW (00:25.87)
285.

terra (00:27.603)
Yes, that is just insane to me, but I'm happy that you did it to spread awareness and I support you from far away.

Vanessa Reiser, LCSW (00:35.534)
Thank you. That's okay.

terra (00:38.803)
Yes. So why don't you tell the people that don't know you a little bit more about you and what you do.

Vanessa Reiser, LCSW (00:45.23)
Sure.

So I am a psychotherapist licensed in New York, New Jersey, Massachusetts, and Florida. I specialize in narcissistic abuse and cult abuse. And most people know me from my run across New York state in a wedding dress. It was 285 miles in 11 days. And then we subsequently traversed New Jersey, Connecticut, and we'll be

doing Massachusetts June 5th and 6th, I believe, of this month, of next month, sorry. So 2024, we're gonna do Massachusetts. And yeah, so I love the work that I do. And I basically have most of my clients are dealing with a lot of psychological abuse and domestic violence.

terra (01:42.259)
Okay, and I know that you were also a victim of domestic violence, right?

Vanessa Reiser, LCSW (01:49.262)
Yeah, so I have definitely had my share of toxic people in my life more than one occasion and kind of developed.

an understanding of some of the behaviors that are rather manipulative. We see this also with cult leaders in terms of mind control and gaslighting and some of the tactics that they use. They tend to have a playbook and once you kind of understand it, you really see it as like a copy and paste. They all sort of do the same thing and some of them are particularly dangerous, especially if they are sociopathic. So the

those persons can be really dangerous. And especially in the family court systems, this is like a big problem for many of my clients. I know with your story, Tara, there were some major physical issues and some major threats to your life. And while a lot of my clients do experience physical violence, they tell me quite a bit that there's...

lawnmower in the area. I don't know if that's killing.

terra (03:04.211)
Okay.

Vanessa Reiser, LCSW (03:09.27)
But it's the season so we can't complain. Thank God for cut grass in New Jersey. We're so blessed to have the sun out today so it's hard to complain.

But most of my clients will express to me that they would rather have like an acute kind of physical altercation versus the prolonged insidious psychological damage that comes from manipulation over many years. And so it's kind of like the silent killer. People really do end up suicidal. Maybe they lose their kids in court to somebody who's particularly charming.

and maybe has a lot of funds and resources. So I'm dealing with this every day trying to help people to manage this trauma.

terra (03:56.436)
Yeah, and I know we have a mutual friend, one mom's battle, Tina Swithin, because I've seen you repost her stuff and just talking about the court system, she's a great resource if you're fighting with a psychopath in court because it's a hard dance.

Vanessa Reiser, LCSW (04:14.382)
Yeah, she's doing the Lord's work. I put her in my book actually because she really goes up against judges, bad therapists, attorneys. She's not afraid to post their picture on her wall, which is kind of unheard of because these are people that are very well connected and protected and powerful. And she sort of goes up against those powers. And so the amount of bravery that I see,

on her page and with her clients is just unbelievable.

terra (04:50.612)
I don't know what happened.

Vanessa Reiser, LCSW (04:54.094)
Can you still hear me? Okay, sorry about that. Did I cut off?

terra (04:55.731)
Now you're back.

No worries. You cut off for like a second or like a minute or two. You went to the part where she posed people's photos and not a lot of people normally do that.

Vanessa Reiser, LCSW (05:12.046)
Yeah, she's really brave in her work. So she's not afraid to, you know, kind of name the players in terms of bad judges, attorneys and therapists, law guardians and stuff like that. So she's extremely courageous because these are people that are really powerful, connected, wealthy. And so she needs to be supported in every way possible because recently one of the I think he was the guitarist for Stone Temple Pilots or something.

had started to come after her directly just for having shared a victim's story. So that's what happens when narcissists feel they're getting exposed is they will come after not just the victim but anyone who supports the victim. I've had plenty of people come after me in my practice just because their ex is my client. And so, you know, they sort of try to find ways to shut everyone up. They're very, very afraid of being exposed. So they will go to very extreme.

lengths to quiet any narrative that doesn't suit them and so Tina is phenomenal in her bravery. I can't say enough about her. I just think that she is like the Mother Teresa of our time.

terra (06:27.572)
100 % and I just I tell everyone I'm like, okay, you're dealing with the court family system Tina. Tina is your girl

Vanessa Reiser, LCSW (06:35.63)
Yep, Tina is amazing and she, what she does is ethically she will receive three or more complaints on one person and then and only then will she post about them. So she is legitimate in terms of, she's not gonna just post because you say so, she's gonna make sure that this person has, you know, like a pattern.

Vanessa Reiser, LCSW (06:59.182)
Did it break up again?

terra (07:02.068)
no, shit, I'm...

I'm like, I wonder if it's the connection. Does it say anything about low connection on your part?

Vanessa Reiser, LCSW (07:16.91)
So.

terra (07:19.411)
I'm pretty good with my wifi.

Vanessa Reiser, LCSW (07:22.03)
Me too. I'd pay a shit ton more for it to be okay unless it's so random. I'm not sure. Who knows? It could be one of those weird days where things are just like, yeah, in Mercury or something.

terra (07:26.227)
See.

terra (07:33.715)
glitchy.

Yeah, well, I thought we were done with that. I thought we were done with all the mercury retrograde and stuff.

Vanessa Reiser, LCSW (07:41.038)
You're probably, who knows? I don't know enough about it.

terra (07:46.9)
Well, okay, so going back to Tina Swift and people that will complain about someone speaking up, how do you deal with that when the narcissist is like, hey, this person is making stuff up or this person's not saying correct information about me? How do you deal with that?

Vanessa Reiser, LCSW (08:08.206)
It's really hard because it's hard to get evidence against a narcissist. They tend to be really sneaky and slippery. They will portray themselves in public as being rather philanthropic. And these are sort of poets, priests, and politicians that are kissing babies and doing all of the stuff that looks really like, this person's like the perfect soccer dad, or this is the pageant mom. How could she ever be abusive behind the scenes? But those are actually really glaring.

red flags if somebody seems like they're over the top charming and you know you see them on social media as this perfect family and everyone's in these photographs and everyone's wearing that white t -shirt or jeans on the beach or something it's like if it looks particularly stagey this could be an indicator so I think it's hard to kind of present this to a judicial system that doesn't care and doesn't get it or both like they don't they don't really understand what

narcissistic abuse is because it's very hard to describe and it's hard to process even for the victim. So how are they going to describe it? They're still trying to figure out like how could this have happened? And then a lot of people in the judicial system are narcissists. I mean, they're just sort of loving the, you know, pageantry of the courtroom. So we see this a lot with judges and attorneys. And I think the data is that one out of four CEOs is

psychopath directly so they know how to climb the ladder and they know how to climb the ladder.

get in those positions of power real easily. So a lot of them just don't give a shit. So I often counsel people on ways to try to get out of the family court system. If you can kind of get into a civil dispute where you get in front of a jury, this would be ideal. Obviously in divorce, it's really hard to avoid. And then you have to just get receipts and try to chronicle everything, but it's hard.

Vanessa Reiser, LCSW (10:11.264)
I have clients that lose their children, that end up getting sentenced at the hands of an abuser because they're really manipulative and they know how to shift the narrative to favor them. And it works. And the reason why it works is because they've been doing it for so long and they have figured out that what they're doing does actually work. It is believable. People don't understand this. We see this with a lot of different people in media.

different people that have gotten a better narrative. And, you know, we don't know what goes on behind the scenes, but I can kind of tell based on a lot of some of the things I see in pop culture. P. Diddy, I know this whole thing has come out where people are seeing now, you know, what he has, but many, many have known about this for, you know, decades that he's been a problem and people are afraid of his power. People are afraid of his money.

And this is no different in different environments where somebody sort of intimidates others into staying quiet around the truth. So it's pretty pervasive. It's very triggering for so many of my followers and clients to see the injustice of it. This is the part that people really, really, really struggle with this.

terra (11:33.333)
Yeah, and what were your thoughts about the video being blown up and just on everyone's social media? I feel like every post I clicked on it was that post and then it at least for me put me into a state where I'm like, okay, I have to go into a trauma hole for a minute because at least for me and I know for so many other survivors who have been in situations like that, like I was holding my head.

when her hair was being pulled because when you get your hair pulled, it's like the natural response is to hold your head usually.

Vanessa Reiser, LCSW (12:10.446)
Right, right, right. I think I was struggling with the fact that people needed to see this to believe her.

But it was like dichotomous because then a part of me was like, see, I told you. So it was weird. And I think there could have been ways to handle it more graciously in terms of like a warning, you know, and sort of managing it more carefully for the people who have dealt with that for sure. Because I did hear a lot of people feeling really, really triggered by that. I think the idea that she wasn't altogether believed was the hardest part.

terra (12:24.052)
Yeah.

Vanessa Reiser, LCSW (12:48.864)
heart for people because they just don't feel believed. In fact, like even after the video came out, I'm sure there are people that are still making excuses for him. Like, so.

terra (12:58.537)
there was, there was. And it's crazy. Like someone was saying like, he apologized and everything's okay now. no.

Vanessa Reiser, LCSW (13:08.942)
And then, you know, there's one other victim that's come out since, and I'm sure there are...

a myriad of other people that have been victimized by him, who knows what they're going to uncover because he's been getting away with it for so long and he seems to be untouchable. So that is the part I think that, you know, and Dr. Raman and I talk about the injustice piece and she's given me some really great readings to understand what justice could look like, but there's some fresh

Frustration, I think collectively with the me too movement and victims of narcissistic abuse around the justice piece It just is not there we do see it with cult leaders for some reason and I think it's because They are outnumbering the cult leader. So the cult members in the fellowship whether there's a cult of five or five hundred Will sort of maybe go up against the cult leader and have a victory and the cult leader could see jail time the FBI We saw this with the nexium cult

We saw this with stolen youth and Larry from the NXIVM cult, but generally if it's a one -on -one scenario They have this sort of like it's it's two sides to every story bullshit narrative and that's really the problem here So like the cult leader does find himself in trouble because he's outnumbered or she's outnumbered But in a one -on -one intimate partner scenario, this is not the case and that's really frustrating I think what we need to start doing potentially is have

terra (14:26.292)
Yeah.

Vanessa Reiser, LCSW (14:44.336)
people lock arms with former victims and see if they can get involved in some of these coercive control laws to sort of do maybe class action lawsuits and start to get the momentum going around, you know, locking arms with other victims because that's the only way I see justice is if it's treated as a cult.

terra (15:05.781)
Okay, I think when someone has multiple victims and those victims come forward it's easier to get a conviction. But when those people have multiple victims too, a lot of the times they don't come forward.

Vanessa Reiser, LCSW (15:20.906)
Yeah. Yeah. And even when they come forward, like Bill Cosby ended up, you know, having how many victims and again, power and privilege and that sort of, you know, didn't work out. But.

That's the other part of it, which is a big undertaking would be to revamp the judicial system. We're not trending in that direction even at all right now in terms of who's in the Supreme Court and stuff and caring about victims and women. That's in the opposite direction, unfortunately. Hopefully, we can turn that ship around, but we don't see a lot of people working across the aisle to support women at all.

terra (16:00.628)
Yeah. What is it like to actually support a survivor going through this? Say, you know, in Cassie's circumstance, I know every individual is different, but what are some key points you would recommend that people do to support them?

Vanessa Reiser, LCSW (16:17.934)
I think when somebody is telling you their story of narcissistic abuse or trying to deal with a cult leader, it's just to listen. We don't really have all of the answers and they are dealing with trauma. They're dealing with a brain injury. And so sometimes they come off as like very dysregulated. And so to just hold space and let them know that you're there, that you're not going to leave them.

that you believe them, I think is really important. I spend a lot of my time just holding space because what people tend to do when they have a trauma or a brain injury because of psychological abuse is they tend to ruminate because they're trying to process, like, what even is this? What is happening? And to do so, in order to process it, they spend a great deal of time expressing it. A great way to express it might be journaling.

terra (17:11.7)
Yeah.

Vanessa Reiser, LCSW (17:15.328)
I oftentimes tell my clients to do voice memo journals. So you're just sort of even raging around it, just getting it off your chest. And once you start to process it, it's like 80 % of the work is really almost like creating these new neural pathways for you to sort of manage what even happened to you. And then you can kind of begin to heal and feel validated in that process. I have this really interesting perspective because I actually

get validation from my client because they're telling me the same thing that I experienced over and over and over again, but they don't have that because they're not a therapist. So they have to do this sometimes in a solitary fashion. And that, you know, healing process for me sort of was like made faster because I was getting the stories. I was like, my God, this is, you know, what I went through. So I like to reflect back that validation. So they not that I necessarily share my story, but I will always share with them.

pieces of my story or others that validate them so they don't feel alone because they think they're crazy. They feel crazy. Sometimes I feel crazy. But you're not crazy. This is crazy. This experience is crazy making and the people who are doing it are crazy. They're delusional. They're toxic. They're dangerous.

A lot of them are psychotic. And so it's important for them to feel validated, I would say. Like, that's the paramount thing is to validate and let them know they're not crazy.

terra (18:47.094)
Yeah, no, I felt like I have definitely gone through some transitions and whether it's dealing with Narcissists abuse or not just my trauma as a whole I felt like I was losing my mind Maybe the past couple months at times and you have been a great solace for me with that. So thank you Of course well

Vanessa Reiser, LCSW (19:07.662)
Well, I'm so glad. Yeah. I know what you've gone through. I mean, we haven't gotten too much into, I mean, I know the story of, but I think when you have that kind of trauma, I see you being so gracious with yourself and being careful. And I think that's important is that radical self -love. So good on you for doing that and listening to that voice to sort of take those moments and cater to that.

terra (19:34.902)
Well, thank you. It's been a rough go of it lately, you know, but there's solace in finding people that relate to you in certain aspects and, you know, get trauma. Because so many people don't understand trauma and especially something that I went through is like a combatic trauma. And so for me, it's going to be easier for me to get to fight more.

you know, and people don't realize that, okay, because my body actually had to go to it, you know, sometimes I might be re more reactive than not. And it's, it's a work in progress, you know, and it's not. So with my trauma, I went from being like reactive to like, wanting to fight back to going to flee to going to like processing things more, but there's still times where,

you know, if you're heightened and you're triggered, that your trauma is going to come out more. But how do you differentiate the difference between PTSD and like, say, narcissism?

Vanessa Reiser, LCSW (20:51.79)
PTSD can sometimes manifest in characteristics that are similar. So it's a great question. Most people think that narcissistic personality disorder develops as a result of trauma. I'm not convinced. I'm not.

sure about all of the data, however, I have some theories around the genetic component being a variable that is understudied. So PTSD, people who fight or flight.

to me are altogether different than somebody who is a deviant, somebody who's manipulative. Not that we don't all have narcissistic traits or abilities in terms of like if you're a PMS thing or you need a Snickers bar or whatever and you sort of, you know, the little horns come out and you're just being the worst version of yourself. To me that is different, you know, being a jerk or being an asshole or just being shitty or being in a bad mood. It's very different than having this pervasive pathological disorder where it is really

innate within you to create damage, chaos, or look to exploit others for attention or supply. So I see them as very different. And I personally feel that there is a genetic, a very strong genetic component at play.

terra (22:17.173)
Okay, and also something I noticed with narcissists, maybe not like psychopaths and sociopaths, I think those may and might be more trauma based in my opinion, is that I see a lot of times the narcissist is literally like the golden child in a sense, or the child that's like, my gosh, this kid could do no wrong. my gosh, do you want this? Do you want? you want the new PS?

to or I don't know the game systems anymore, but you want the new game you want. you want nike's. you want the gucci cologne and then they're giving the person everything that they want that it's in creating that like kind of entitle ism in them. That's what I notice is at least like growing up in high school. I feel like it's always like the athlete, the football, the star quarterback, you know, that's the narcissist.

Vanessa Reiser, LCSW (22:47.854)
Ha ha ha!

Vanessa Reiser, LCSW (23:13.774)
Yeah, and more than likely it's going to end up being a recipe of both, right? So there's this genetic component, it's almost like a iced tea mix and you just add water. So it's probably the genetic component sort of dormantly there. And then you kind of add in the abuse and the sort of favoring of this child and that creates the perfect storm. The only thing that I kind of struggle with is I ran a daycare for nine years and in the daycare, it was

Freudian like some kids were just organically kind and some were just not and Freud sort of talked about the id and ego and how you know we have to kind of develop them over time through being civilized and I don't know that some of those children ever really sort of Tame their id. I think they're almost like these giant petulant children. So there's a part of me that feels strong

about this Freudian perspective around them never really becoming civilized or them figuring out early on how to manipulate things. And there's not a lot of data around it or studies most of the time because narcissists aren't coming out and being like, I'm a narcissist. Can you study my ass? They're not really doing that. So we are left to sort of try to figure out what goes on. But yeah, probably there's a good amount of all of it at play to really give

terra (24:31.157)
Yeah.

Vanessa Reiser, LCSW (24:43.504)
you sort of that NPD, that pathological. But we see like there are also, you know,

psychopaths who are pretty well behaved and then you know you come to learn that they are like the Ted Bundy's where you don't realize but again in in therapy in the clinical sense when you have something called oppositional defiant disorder as a child this is sort of the prerequisite for sociopathy so these are the kids that are just organically hurting animals they're organically starting fires so I don't know that it's just something that comes from

trauma. I feel there is a genetic component that's really really rather strong.

terra (25:25.847)
Yeah, no, I noticed that even with my family in a sense, not my immediate family, but members that have had the psychopath gene in them, I've noticed it come out more in their grandchildren. And, you know, kids being diagnosed with a lack of empathy. And I'm like, OK, so I see it definitely with the brain and the

You know, I had an experience with a kid that was like seven years old. And during this time, he was actually trying to get my dog to go out into the street to go get hit by a car. And his mom kept telling him, don't do that, don't do that, the dog can get hit by a car. But then the kid, there was something in the kid's mind that he was like, I want to keep doing this because I want to see the

dog get hit and hurt.

Vanessa Reiser, LCSW (26:27.822)
Yeah, so you see what I mean? There's this like, I saw it in the daycare, there were kids that were like, would bite or would be really, really, really aggressive and would do these drawings with knives and, and then there were kids that were just completely altogether different. And so I don't know, it sort of begs the question, like what is the onset? And really, is there necessarily abuse involved? Because there are plenty of people that are wickedly abused and would never harm another soul. They often find themselves in

terra (26:55.606)
Yeah.

Vanessa Reiser, LCSW (26:57.776)
my office. So I understand trauma a great deal and you know I don't know I struggle with that being the only situation I think there's a very very large genetic component.

terra (27:10.838)
I think so as well, but I feel like there needs to be more research, right?

Vanessa Reiser, LCSW (27:15.502)
Totally, I mean that would be, I oftentimes talk about hiring just like a gaggle of interns just from like NYU and just have them sit in the think tank and study people and do all kinds of fun stuff, but I don't have the time. But I wish I did, I have all kinds of ideas I think would be great, but who has the time?

terra (27:34.07)
Right and you know a really great book that I think is for understanding the brain too and why people behave the way they do is behave have you read that book? it's amazing. It's just like goes through the different aspects because this guy robber, I can never say his last name right that is like so so palsky or something like that, but he is a a brain doctor, I believe and he goes and he

Vanessa Reiser, LCSW (27:43.406)
Ow.

terra (28:03.926)
goes to court and analyzes people who convicted murder and basically gives his description on their brain and why he thinks they are the way they are.

Vanessa Reiser, LCSW (28:16.302)
Yeah, I think that's the future of the world is to get involved in brain scans for empathy. That would be such an important thing to have for world leaders, because these are people in positions of power like Hitler that can, you know, you know, get involved in genocide. And so we need to really take empathy as like the ground zero for NPD and sociopathy very seriously, because without it, without empathy, we just see

to exist, period. Like, we don't exist as a species because when I had my son, I mean, I was like, I got to feed this baby. I had no idea why. Innately, I was like, this is a thing now. Like, I have to take care of this creature because I was so, like, it was just an innate experience, as, you know, most mammals do. Otherwise, the child ceases to exist. So this is empathy. And without it, we don't exist. And we will surely, you know, out ourselves.

terra (28:47.51)
Yeah.

Vanessa Reiser, LCSW (29:16.112)
We'll just destroy ourselves if we don't get involved in having really sort of global conversations about empathy.

terra (29:23.479)
Yeah, true. Do you think that women develop more empathy than, say, men due to our innate sense of nurturing?

Vanessa Reiser, LCSW (29:31.886)
I'm not sure that they have it in terms of genetically more. I do think that systemically, patriarchy and some of the misogynistic views that a lot of our cultures adopt doesn't help to cultivate empathy in men.

Like we don't do enough to sort of allow them to experience that there's a lot of reasons why I think systemically There's a there's a major difference in those things But also, you know mothers being The birthers and stuff. So probably there is something there But I think like there are a ton of empathetic men. I don't know that we sort of cultivate that enough

terra (30:16.342)
Okay, yeah, no, I think society definitely promotes like that toxic masculinity and that definitely can be a contribute to our these egos.

Vanessa Reiser, LCSW (30:29.55)
Yeah, yeah, I did a little bit about this in my book in terms of systemically, like what it's been like historically in terms of even in religious organizations and sort of the ownership of the bride getting married and like all of the things that we've learned through the media about our roles, our gender roles and why a good amount of that is absolute garbage. But this is, you know,

These are civilized conversations and again, I don't know that we're trending in that direction to be having them at the moment. Hopefully we'll turn that around and we can start to talk about the needs of all of society's members. But women right now are really kind of fighting for their basic rights. So this is a weird time to be alive for women.

terra (31:21.718)
100%. You know, in something that you said about the trending factor going back to the Sean comb or Sean, not Sean combs. Is it Sean combs his name? Okay. And he had a show earlier on where he had a, all these people do music. And then he was like telling them, like he started all those groups, like the pussy cat dolls and stuff. Right. Am I thinking of that?

Vanessa Reiser, LCSW (31:46.606)
Did he? I don't know that. I'm sure he did, but I don't know.

terra (31:49.431)
Well, okay, even in that show, how he treated everyone was not really okay.

Vanessa Reiser, LCSW (31:59.374)
Yeah.

terra (32:00.47)
You know, there was certain just him snapping and I feel like narcissists snap a lot.

Vanessa Reiser, LCSW (32:06.846)
Yeah, they really like to get a rise out of you. They tend to kind of get off on startling people, intimidating people, because it feels powerful and controlling for them to kind of glean from you your energy, whether it's good or bad. So they're looking for this coveted supply of your attention. So whatever it takes to get that, they're down for that.

terra (32:28.118)
Okay, fun times for the narcissist And you know, what is something to get us back on track? Like how should we be viewing this video in a sense? Should we not be promoting it? What is the pros and cons to it?

Vanessa Reiser, LCSW (32:30.414)
Yeah. Yeah, right.

Vanessa Reiser, LCSW (32:47.278)
I think the pros to the P Diddy video are kind of the exposure of what he did full on.

And the cons are that we should believe victims before we have to see that kind of evidence. I don't know the data or statistics, but by and large, people are not lying about a bunch of different things that you hear a lot of rhetoric around, like rape and domestic abuse. There's not a lot of data that says people are just lying about this. That's first of all, it's similar to voter fraud. The statistics, you know, we see this in certain

Parties will say, there's voter fraud. The statistics on voter fraud are like 0 .00001 % of the time somebody pretends to be someone in votes. So when you look at the data, people telling you that they're the victims of

domestic abuse, narcissistic abuse, by and large, they are not fibbing. So we should start believing people based on the data. And that's really important. So I think there's a good and a bad to the video. I think it should have been launched more sensitively because I think a lot of people are triggered by that experience. It's really, really horrifying to go through something like that. And...

Especially we don't know if she wanted that we don't know what she wanted out. So we want to honor that experience My sense is that she probably feels very validated, but I don't know her

terra (34:18.358)
Yeah.

terra (34:26.71)
Well, I heard, and this is just rumors that I've heard, I heard that she didn't want the video out there, but that's just something that I heard, you know? And I don't know, but usually it's funny because usually survivors have a, like a common theme of how they think usually, but then every survivor has a different situation and a.

different healing experience and different opinions about everything, you know? But usually it's... I personally, if there was a video out there about my attack with John, I would want control of that.

Vanessa Reiser, LCSW (35:10.19)
Yeah, that's a good point. That's a good point.

terra (35:12.374)
You know, and I thank you. I think this is like the perfect note to wrap up on and that we'll be having on other guests soon. If you want to interview with me and Vanessa, you know, come on our show. Come on the show. We would love to have you hear your experience about a toxic narcissistic relationship and maybe we'll find healing and solace together.

Vanessa Reiser, LCSW (35:38.958)
Yeah, that'd be great. I think that point that you made is really important. The control so she could have had, because that's the trauma of it, isn't it? It's to have that lack of control. So that feeling of empowerment, of having control over your narrative, over your stories is paramount. So I think that's a really important point that you just made.

terra (35:48.855)
Yeah.

terra (35:58.103)
Thank you, thank you. And would you mind answering a few more questions for the Patreon? Beautiful.

Vanessa Reiser, LCSW (36:03.47)
Sure.

terra (36:07.415)
Alright, well, welcome back Vanessa. It was a long time. Now, why don't you share a little bit about your own experience in toxic relationships if you don't mind. What was it like to begin those?

Vanessa Reiser, LCSW (36:11.758)
Hehehehe

Vanessa Reiser, LCSW (36:25.134)
It's funny because in some of the relationships that I had with somebody who was toxic, they were particularly charming. So superficial charm is kind of like a red flag. They tend to be successful people.

they are seemingly successful people. They tend to be love -bombing. So these are people who send you long text messages, you know, kind of trying to reel you in with gifts or surprise visits or concerts or all of those loving words and adoration, things like you are my soulmate. I think we pretty well canceled the word soulmate collectively. Like this is not a word, guys. Like we need to unhand this word.

This is such a red flag, the word sold me. So just be careful if someone starts to tell you that, especially very early on. Just be careful with that word. And I guess sort of the silent treatment, passive aggression was something that I had to deal with. So you want to be careful when somebody is particularly sarcastic or can't really communicate their needs. Somebody who...

kind of treats the waitstaff unkindly or others unkindly, like they are entitled, somebody who's really superficial, you know, gets caught up in narratives or optics, somebody who's inauthentic. So I really vibe with the salt of the earth kinds of people. And I've been getting back into that quite a bit. I know I lost myself in certain relationships where I got caught up in that. And now like I'm mowing my lawn.

and I can't tell you how much fun it is to sort of be connected to that girl who likes to get dirty and put her hat on backwards and all of those fun things. So sort of that inauthentic experience. And those are some of the major ones for me, I think, that I was like sort of like making excuses for.

terra (38:28.632)
Yeah, did you ever make excuse for it? Like did they ever not want to post you on social media?

Vanessa Reiser, LCSW (38:35.63)
that one I don't recall other than maybe...

guys I dated before social media was a thing, which is showing you how old I am. But that is an indicator, that is kind of a red flag if somebody doesn't want to do that. I guess after a certain period of time, because some people just in general are gonna tread lightly. But yeah, if they're kind of maybe readily posting others, or if they're posting things to sort of make you feel like shit and it's a vibe you're getting. So maybe a passive aggressive post,

terra (38:58.807)
Yeah.

Vanessa Reiser, LCSW (39:12.368)
because they absolutely use social media as a way to punish others. This is like an agenda -driven experience for them. Social media is not about psychoeducation or social media for them is not about, you know, sharing just a meal or a talent they have or their artwork or their family. This is just like this buttoned up like experience of like, look at me, look at me, or they use it to punish people.

in their lives, so this agenda that they have.

terra (39:45.591)
Okay, I feel like a lot that you said triggered me even.

Vanessa Reiser, LCSW (39:51.118)
I'm sorry. shit.

terra (39:52.824)
Don't ever be sorry. Don't ever be sorry. It's all good because you know, there's things that people need to realize sometimes aren't normal things in a sense, you know, if someone's always like boasting about themselves, and, you know, they're the main person and they and it's always great to have like main character syndrome in a sense, but you also have to care about others.

and care about like the balance you know because I think with a partnership too it's 50 -50 in a sense.

Vanessa Reiser, LCSW (40:30.958)
Yeah, you bring up a good point. If somebody is a particularly good storyteller, or if they interrupt others and they kind of grandstand, or they sort of monopolize communications, these are red flags. Somebody who's just overwhelmingly working in the room or robbing everyone of their own experience. You know, I sometimes will...

be so sort of forward -focused where I miss things too, but in general, if I have to circle back and kind of say, hold on a second, I interrupted you, forgive me, or something like that, I try to manage it, but sometimes these people just have no insight whatsoever, so they just kind of barrel through it.

terra (41:12.375)
Yeah, so true. Well, what advice would you have for anyone trying to navigate if they're in a narcissistic relationship?

Vanessa Reiser, LCSW (41:22.446)
A lot of my clients don't have the resources to leave, so I try to honor that experience, but generally it is best to get out because this is a sort of soul -sucking experience. This is somebody who is going to drain you of your energy to the extent that you will absolutely lose yourself. Sandra Brown refers to this relationship as a relationship of inevitable harm. So there's no way out. You're damned if you do, and you're damned if you don't. You can never please a narcissist. They are insatiable.

they're always going to have problems in every relationship. So ideally you want to get out. So that's going to include hiding resources, money, your prized possessions, a safety bag, maybe at a friend's house, start to sort of get your mind around where to live, who to be with, who's your support system, because it's never recommended to stay.

terra (42:15.703)
Beautiful well not beautiful for staying but you know beautiful for getting out Now where can we find you on social media the whole shebang?

Vanessa Reiser, LCSW (42:19.25)
Yeah. Yes.

Vanessa Reiser, LCSW (42:26.126)
So Instagram is at Vanessa Riser, LCSW. I am coming out with my book this year. It's called Narcissistic Abuse, A Therapist's Guide to Identifying, Escaping, and Healing from Toxic and Manipulative People. It was published by Hachette, so I'm super proud.

And it really fuses the concepts of narcissistic abuse and cult abuse because you're either in a cult of one, a cult of a few, or a cult of many. So I'm promoting the book right now. So thank you for letting me do that.

terra (43:00.344)
I'm just crying because I'm so proud of your book. Like it's so hard to do a book and so I'm just like wow that's you know and when you when it comes out let's do a live and do more stuff because I know for a fact people have been messaging me saying that they've been buying Ramani's book.

Vanessa Reiser, LCSW (43:02.718)
Thank you so much.

Vanessa Reiser, LCSW (43:20.75)
Yeah, her book is so amazing. I have it right here, my signed copy. And that's my homegirl. So I tried to support her book, not that she needed it, but that is an amazing woman in every way. She is a dear friend of mine, and I tell her whenever I can that she's saving lives. And I truly believe that even though it's hard for her to hear it, it is absolutely true. And so I'm happy to be involved in that realm in any way I can.

terra (43:25.048)
I love it.

guess.

terra (43:48.344)
Yes, well thank you guys.