Jenee Halstead:
I am so happy to have you on. I have Ruby Rose Fox here today with me. And we are going to talk about nervous system health. We're going to talk about muscle music. Ruby is one of my favorite singer songwriters, one of my favorite voices. And she's also launched the number one trauma informed nervous system gym for artists and performers.
And I would say that probably it's not just the number one, but the only. Yeah. But that's why I feel confident saying number one, because it's the only. Exactly. It's the only you're the only one in this game right now. Otherwise, I'd be like, I don't know if I'm number one. I don't know. Exactly. Well, you are your number one in my book. Oh, and you are you are leading the way. So 2016.
We had a conversation in Cafe Nero. We had a great conversation and you were just starting to like dive into this world. And we were talking about nervous systems and you were like polyvagal, the polyvagal ladder. And it was like a whole world I had never even heard of. So tell me how do you get started in this work?
Ruby Rose:
Well, I think I really primed myself for it. I've always been a seeker. I mean, before I became a singer songwriter, I was living on a Zen center in Santa Fe, thinking I might be wanting to be a Buddhist chaplain for my life. Like I definitely, I grew up conservative Christian and I always wanted to know. I mean, honestly, I think I just wanted to feel better. Like I wanted to regulate my system. I knew something was wrong. So I was looking for whatever method or path that it took to create peace and happiness in my life. But what really sealed the deal was a really terrible event, which caused me to go into freeze. Like real freeze. And I knew myself, and I think other people knew me too, for being like a very hard worker. Like there was nothing that was gonna stop me from working. And so when I found myself unable to get out of bed, very suddenly I thought, this can't be my fault. I knew it wasn't like a character issue. Like I think a lot of times when we're dysregulated, we have voices that like blame us or we're like, well, maybe I'm lazy or maybe this is just who I am. Maybe I'm an anxious person. So that put a big question mark in my brain, because I was like, this doesn't feel like something that I'm controlling. And then I had coffee with a friend, not Cafe Nero, but very close to that cafe, with a friend, a fan of the Ruby Rose Fox band. And she happened to be a therapist. And she was, I was describing a method that I was using with my some traumatized voice clients called the second circle, which is this acting method with three circles of energy, just like a nervous system. And she said, oh, well, that sounds like polyvagal theory. And of course, at the time we didn't have a strong enough relationship for me to just tell her how bad things had been for me. So I didn't sort of, I didn't say that, but learning about polyvagal theory really helped me unshame what was dorsal in that or frozen from the very viewpoint of polyvagal theory. It answered so fast. So many weird questions I had about acting, weird questions I had about performing because, you know, I kind of knew talent was bullshit. It was like, there was more to unlocking a connection with an audience unlocking that thing that feels like, oh, that artist has it. Yep. Right. Yep. And it felt like the first thing where I was like, oh, okay. Safety is charisma. That's goosebump worthy. And like all of my, my brain just exploded with, with polyvagal theory. Like I was just set up for that moment, basically for poly the ideas to come in my life. And then my brain just went like, like it connected it to a thousand million banks. Polyvagal theory for people don't know is the, a biological sort of framework for our three major nervous system states, which adds freeze to the equation. Do you want to just give a brief definition of your like safe and social just real quick so that people have a context as we're moving through the conversation?
Absolutely. So, the safe and social state is a biological system that basically primes our brain, our blood flow, our eyesight and our hearing towards social connection to solve our problems. So it's not a system of bliss or enlightenment. It's a system in which we are looking for physiological and psychological safety through other systems, through other nervous systems to find safety.
If we can't find safety that way, we just regulate into an older mammalian biological system that changes everything. It changes our eyesight, it changes our hearing, it changes our perception of faces, it changes our blood flow, our hormonal system. We are basically a different person and it primes the nervous system towards movement. And so it takes away a lot of the sort of connecting mechanisms for the sake of getting away from a predator or moving towards a prey. So that's what we think of as the fight or flight spectrum. I think of these as spectrums now instead of just like a state. And then the last state is called freeze. And it really hasn't been a part of…it really hasn't been validated. It got validated by Stephen Porges around 1992, even in therapeutic circles. And it's another system of defense, which totally changes the system again, different hormones, different chemicals, different biological shifting happening to prime the system for preservation. So this is...or what they call immobilization. So, you know, everybody, most people have seen like a possum kind of play dead. I recently saw it in my backyard, which was amazing. Did you see him get up and go away or? No, I thought it was dead. It played dead so well, like it stuck its little tongue out and I was like, I thought my dog killed it. It was horrifying. So yeah, so that's like, so basically, it's three distinct systems in which our biology is shifting to find safety through different tactics.
Jenee Halstead:
So when I think of you, I would watch you on stage and be like, this woman has it. Like she can go as far as she wants. Like there is no stopping her. She has so much charisma. But how are you feeling on stage?
Ruby Rose:
Um, I was feeling, I mean, I have, and am healing from what I call now, uh, nervous system, uh, safe and social bypass, which means that I've actually added a fourth state to the nervous system states. And I call it the Fox method because a three system state theory does not explain art and does not explain performing. So, so basically. Polyvagal theory is a system of evolution. So the dorsal state was the first state out of that bloomed safe and social state, which transcended and included the dorsal state. And then the safe and social state bloomed out of that in evolution that transcended and included the other two states. Meaning like when we're in our safe and social state, we still have our sympathetic system and we still can rest and have dorsal is just all balanced. And then above that, like about you know, probably around 200 ,000 years ago, and it's been evolving even more. I mean, think about how like, you know, Shakespeare or the Greek plays that like a whole new system of pretend and role play conscious role play. Bloomed into what I call super play, which is another state of of experiencing life through pretend and I call it the first non-survival state. Because you would never do Shakespeare if a war was coming, but you might stay in a safe and social state to try to figure it out that way. So super play is defined by role play and pretend. So basically what happens to a lot of, so let's just hypothetically say there's four states. And here's how I think about it. An artist, like as a kid, an artist, is living in a family system where they cannot be met fully or seen completely in safe and social. So they're not able to get their needs met through their caregivers completely. So what I did, I lost my sister as a child to leukemia. And so I suddenly lost my safe and social parents. So what I did was I went to my room and I became a star. I mean, I was Judy Garland. It wasn't like I was playing Judy Garland. I was Judy Garland. I was Roy Orbison. I created a safe space in my room through play and pretend. And then what happened was I would go take my little performances and I'd show mom and dad. Mom and dad would be like, that's amazing, and finally give me the attention that I needed.
So the little brain goes, oh, super play means safety. And then the next thought is, oh, I should just do this all the time. I must be an actor. I must get on stage. I must be a singer. I must be always performing or I'm not safe. So that's where an artist is, a young artist is created who's compulsively needing to make art instead of willingly choosing to do art out of joy. So when I was on stage and you saw me performing, that was my fully embodied self in my full power, but that could only exist on stage.
Jenee Halstead:
Wow. Yeah. I'm thinking about all these things and making a lot of connections for myself. So is it possible that a child can grow up in a home that is like where they can get that reflection or is it always just that it's not possible, it's not possible to fully get a reflection.
Ruby Rose:
I think so many kids have safe and social caregivers who can see them and who can appreciate them and still want to make art. But they're not desperate to be in a certain play state to feel love and acceptance because the, you know, a child without, caregivers who can see them and hold them and appreciate them have two choices. Either they go into super play or their development is highly stunted because they either go into fight or flight or they go into freeze, which your brain, as we know, like our prefrontal cortex turns off in many ways. So in a way, it's a genius approach to keep growing, keep evolving, keep being like the, for the tiny child to be and continue to be creative. But it still is an avoidance of this very dangerous, safe and social state. And so we deal with this on Muscle Music, my program all the time, where there's so many artists who are just craving wanting to be back on stage at any cost and this feeling of relationality, this feeling of like friendships, relationships.
It feels very hard, tumultuous, scary, frightening. And this is like a weak, safe and social system. So many artists have super strong super play systems and really weak, safe and social systems. And so they kind of fall down the ladder very quickly into anxiety and to freeze when they're not in super play.
Jenee Halstead (15:41.422):
Yeah, it's so wild. I mean, just the thought of like how
dysfunctional and difficult it is to navigate the music industry. Even in like a small like social setting, like we were both in the Boston music scene. To me, like 15 years in the Boston music scene were like kind of sheer terror for me. You know, I was always dysregulated all the time. Even like when I was going out to see music, it felt like this landmine of like navigating egos and you know, it's like, I can only imagine what it's like working and doing what you're doing in this group with this app and the needs of artists in a way you know to heal a lot of that in like a space that feels safe. Yeah, it's it's so wonderful to get to do that healing work specifically with other artists because we just kind of get each other. And yeah, I, it is very tumultuous to like, you're right, just like even going to see another artist perform, you know, it brings up so much everything when you're, when you're feeling like,
I mean, so many things come up for me regarding the Boston music scene that I probably shouldn't speak publicly about, but I will. Just around like, you know, an entire city that, you know, the whole system is set up to like, I mean, you go to other cities and people like genuinely root for you in Boston. It's like, everyone can't wait to see you fail. Yeah, it's true. I mean, the fan, I think the older generation are really genuinely music lovers, but the actual scene is, the scene is very divisive and very, oof, there's a lot of, there's just a lot in there. So there's some reality to it. Like there's some reality to the sort of dysregulation. You know, this dysregulation doesn't always come from our trauma and doesn't always come from our own insecurity. Very much it can but it can also come from a collective dysregulation depending on what city and what scene you are and an entire group of people can be collectively dysregulated together. Yeah, yeah. Already coming in totally traumatized and dysregulated and then, you know, it's like, oh, I know you experienced that yourself in acting at Emerson and that was, you know, I think that's also part of what's motivating you to create this platform and also the...
Jenee Halstead (17:59.118)
The Fox, are you calling it the Fox method? Yeah, yeah. It's amazing. But I don't know if you want to talk a little bit about like being in Emerson and feeling that level of unsafety…
Ruby Rose:
Oh, sure. I mean, I the nervous system was never mentioned. Yeah, I remember Professor talking about a first impulse and a second impulse but um, our methodology was based in the link later technique, which many actors know about, but it's all about opening up the voice, freeing the voice. But what happens when you free the voice is that all your trauma comes up. Yeah. And so, and there was no trauma informed protocol of what happens if an actor has a breakdown, what happens if an actor freezes, what happens if an actor is having a panic attack. None of my professors had the tools to manage my class. And we eventually like, we were a group of about 15 actors in a studio and we stayed together year after year grew together for our BFA. And by the end of our senior year, we kind of hated each other. I mean, we had no, we had no boundaries. And we had no tools to regulate. It was just like some of the work really is beautiful and regulating and, but it was done with, with no protocol of the nervous system. But first of all, an actor's instrument is their nervous system. And, and the fact that it was kind of like, always like, well, your, your instrument is your voice and your body. And it's like, no, your instruments, your nervous system, because if your nervous system dysregulates, you're a very different person. You don't have the mechanisms that you need to act. Looking back, I'm just like, I can't believe we were even doing any of that stuff without this knowledge. Yeah. And you believe it. Yeah. And, you know, talk about co -regulation a little bit and how, you know, so you're in this group with all these people and you're really probably not even able to co -regulate with each other. Yeah. So co-regulation means that it's just two nervous systems or a collective nervous system that's, you know, always looking for safety cues with each other and regulating finding safety together. And it's a really beautiful thing. And you can do it in a coffee shop and you can do it on Zoom and you can do it with a big group of people. And what I love about it is that we don't have to use religious terms for it. Yeah. You know, it's something like that finally we can break off from religion. But it's it but it is what people go to church to feel. When you're feeling the Holy Spirit in you when you leave church, that's co -regulation. It's a new felt sense of safety with another person. And we can also collectively dysregulate together. So just the awareness of it is really important. But basically the main principle which Muscle Music is founded on is that is like a mind blowing thing that Stephen Porges said that in order for a human nervous system to properly self regulate, it has to have a diverse rich source of co regulation. And the rune through my experience with Muscle Music, I've really come to the mind like mind blowing assessment that actually we need way more, way more, we basically need constant healthy regulation to feel alive, vibrant, to be reflected, to reflect others. Like the amount that we need is just so much more than we could ever conceive because we live in capitalism and it's very isolating. So just to think about like that we deserve that much connection. It would be really overwhelming probably for a lot of people to even think about, but basically your ability to go off in the woods alone is your ability to regulate is going to be so much stronger if you have that system set up in your life. So that's what Muscle Music is there for. It's a virtual system, co-regulation for people that may not just have one. But again, it doesn't come easy. Community is it's something we have to build together and it's not something anyone deserves necessarily. It's something you have to build just like fitness, just like everything healthy we build in our lives. It's like, it takes work, man. And it's, it's no joke.
Jenee Halstead:
Yeah. And I think it also takes a lot of self, self responsibility and it takes understanding your own nervous system deeply of, you know, where you're at in any moment on your ladder.
Ruby Rose:
Yeah. And it's so beautiful to witness, like, what's so beautiful about, like, the system that we have is that people are encouraged to come on whether they're feeling really regulated or whether they're like really, really frozen. And so it's interesting to watch people shift from day to day. Like one person who was an eight one day is like, we have a number system, was an eight one day is a two another day and then it will flip. So it's also really healthy to be like, oh wow, this person was completely regulated today and now they're stressed. And now I'm feeling good. And I was stressed yesterday and just seeing that like it's normal to dysregulate. It's normal to not always feel happy and good. And just to witness that in other people is so healthy. And we don't get that because we don't know what other people's nervous system states are on a regular basis.
Jenee Halstead:
Well, most people don't know their own. What is your thought on like empaths and sensitives? What would be your view of that as far as your nervous system take on it.
Ruby Rox:
Right now. And I'm totally like, I think there's probably so many different versions of being an empath. I see empaths as people who grew up in family systems where they had to be hyper sensitive to their surroundings. Exactly. That's what I think too. Hyper vigilance and that kind of like nervous system, like the nervous system is way out. And it's scanning. It like it, the neuroception is really active. Where is danger? But I also think like it's, if it happens at a really young age, it's like really a part of the system. Yeah. And empaths can be safe and social and still be a little bit more looking for everybody's feelings in a room and maintain their own regulation. I think why a lot of empaths are great healers and great um, teachers, but also an empath in fight or flight or an empath and freeze are also very real and very tough to live with. Yeah. Is that something you're curious about? Cause I, well, I mean, I always had this thing from the time I was like in my early twenties where I was like, I'm an empath, I'm an empath, all this stuff. And then like the more I learned about, um, Polyvagal theory and just this education that I've gone through you and then gone, you know, and done my own reading is, you know, I totally changed my theory on that. And I, you know, feel like for the most part, I was living in Fawn response. And I know Fawn isn't really part of the Polyvagal ladder. I think it's an outcome of being in a level of fight or flight, correct? Yes, definitely. Well, you can fawn and freeze fight or flight, and you can also fawn in safe and social.
Jenee Halstead:
I think I've lived my entire life in fawn. And it's really interesting because if I look at videos of me on stage in Boston, I'm always shifting my eyes all around the room. Yep, that's very fight or flight. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's really interesting. And I just, I find like, I, you know, through the years and and doing my own nervous system strengthening and healing. I don't get thrown off as much, but I do find like, depending on the nervous system, like my brother can just like at Christmas, we were like Christmas day and I was just like, my nervous system just went like sideways because of something that was going on with him, you know? And so it's like, um, yeah, it's really interesting. Like, I occasionally like a nervous system can still kind of get me.
Ruby Rose:
Yeah, I mean, that brings up a whole other like sciencey thing about adrenaline. And I kind of wonder if this is also maybe a part of neurodiversity in that adrenaline is not just a stress hormone, it's an amplifying hormone. So they did this like really amazing study where they would pump someone with adrenaline and they put them in a room with a person who was either angry, happy, sad, like all these different feelings. It turned out that adrenaline actually didn't necessarily make you more amped or hyper or active, which that is one of the side effects in certain contexts. But in this context, the adrenaline actually caused them to be more susceptible to pick up the emotion of whoever was in the room. Interesting. So if the person was sad, they'd be more sad. If the person was angry, they'd be more angry. So it's like when we have a little bit more adrenaline in our body, which most traumatized people do, or people with trauma do, then we are more primed to catch the feelings around us. It's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there are chemical responses.
Jenee Halstead:
I mean, you know, feelings are cascades of chemicals. So it makes perfect. It makes perfect sense. Tell me why you decided to create the gym and that that being the foundation for the app and right.
Ruby Rose:
Well, I studied with a bunch of trauma, like a bunch of trauma therapists. When I learned polyvagal theory, I was
probably the only non-clinical person in the room. And I just, all of the foundations of polyvagal theory basically say that we have to do this work collectively. And actually that we have to do most things collectively to be happy. And I wasn't ready for that back then, because I was still kind of in a lone wolf mindset. And it took me a - I don't even know when it happened. It just happened eventually where I was just like, the science is telling us this, so we have to do this. Meaning like, it's so imperative that we work as a community and that this is more of like, that to do the work, we actually have to do it together. So it has to be a communal gym. And then also I saw this trend towards, a lot of education, which I was obviously a part of because I created a masterclass, but education and integration into therapy, but I didn't see a lot of like excitement about practice. And I knew that the only way I would practice is by setting up a gym. You know, like showing up for your fitness or showing up for your…um, practicing your instrument, like if the nervous system is the primary instrument, we have to practice it with the same vigor that we would practice piano practice, voice practice, songwriting to get to know it. Like, especially artists who want to be on stage and want to have successful performing careers. It's like, if the nervous system is truly your number one instrument, then we need to be paying attention to it and caring for it the way that we would care for a one million dollar saxophone or like the way that Yo -Yo Ma cares for his cello. Yeah. You know? Yeah. So that was the kind of thought behind it. And so what does the gym entail? Because I know you actually went and literally got like your certification in lifting and... There's so many components now. Mostly because of the needs. of just listening to the needs of the people in my group, but regulations. So basically we come on and we do, we just get into our bodies more. We scan the body for pain, uncertainty and aliveness. Then we go through the ladder. We say what number we are. We do a bunch of qigong exercises. We do the same movements every day. It's very Mr. Rogers -y. It's very interesting. I'm putting on my sweater. This is Mr. Rogers. We do the same thing because our nervous system is different every day. So I want something very stable. And then at the end of the session, we plan, we say what our hardest thing is of the day. And then we plan for our dysregulation collectively. So, hey, if I do this, I might be put in fight or flight. Okay, well, what are the tools to get out of fight or flight? So that's that. We also have now co -working sessions because we kind of collectively agreed that we get more done together. So we'll sign on, we'll say what our hard thing is, and we'll do a little regulation and then we'll get to work for an hour and a half and then come back on Zoom. It's so cool. Yeah, it's really, it's fun. And then we also have a tools section, which I'm incorporating a lot of Phil Stutz's work, the psychologist Phil Stutz, he has these amazing just mental tools that are so helpful that I could not ignore. He also lost a sibling and is very much like into the idea of like, we need to feel better today. Right. Not in three years. Right now. Yeah, right now. And then we have a grieving, we have a voice session once a month, trauma -informed voice. And then we also have a how we cope session. So that is a new one that I love.
It's not AA and it's not about recovery. It's really about seeing the nerve, every nervous system that's dysregulated is put in a position where it has to find safe and social again. So it's called, my friend calls it nervous system physics, where it's like, it's like the, like if you poured water, it's gonna pour down because of gravity. Same thing with dysregulation. We have to find regulation. So. we all get in one room and we talk about the ways that we cope, whether it's overworking, whether it's drinking, whether it's pot, whether it's talking a lot, whether it's our way of coping is imagining being on Broadway and dissociating from life. Like we think we put ourselves in the same room as addicts and say, I am always going to have to cope if I'm dysregulated. So it's sort of a huge unshaming space to just be like, here's what I do. And here's how I'm dealing with this without any shame. So those are the main components. Wow. Can you speak to some of the positive changes or shifts that you've seen happening within the container for individuals? There's been two name changes so far. Wow. One stage name, one real name. So, you know, identity shifting like, taking one's power back. Someone just got booked for their first like huge drag residency. People are growing and taking risks and also some people are having a really hard time and like barely can come on and sometimes like will come on and admit they're still in bed and just put their screen on and just need to listen.
So we have all different kinds of people who are in different stages of the process. Some people are coming off of really difficult drugs like Benzos and things that are really, really hard. So yeah, it's a wide range. But the cool thing is that I think by, you never know what's going to happen when you do bonkers ideas like this. I mean, it could go, think about like all the ways this could go very wrong. And it has in some ways, like I've learned a lot of lessons so far, but overall, I see it really working. As a community, we're really, really bonding and helping each other. And it's just been amazing. I think it takes that kind of level of care that you have and deep passion to hold that kind of container first and foremost. I don't think I could have done it at any other time in my life, but now probably. I don't think I would have had the ability to lead. It's way harder than performing. Oh yeah. Yeah. Cause it's relational. Yeah. You know, it's not, I'm not playing anything. Right.
Jenee Halstead (36:35.214)
It's been amazing just watching you change and shift and grow, seeing the profound evolution, even over the last year. It's like, it's, it's this flower that just keeps like unfolding and you know, it's like, there's another level. Like this work is really, there's really no, I don't think there's any end to like what you could do with this. Yeah.
Ruby Rose:
I see the possibilities too, especially in the kind of impact we collectively can have, not just on the world, but even on our craft. And the next generation not being trained the same way and really shifting artists' attention into this idea that we could be handed a community the same way we're handed a family. You know, it's never going to be perfect and there's going to be a lot of things wrong. But you can build intentional family and you can build intentional community. And I just wish I had these tools like when we lived in Boston. Yeah, like I wish. This was then because I think we would have just had so much more fun. Yeah, I know. Fun. I mean, that's all you want at the end of the day, I think, you know. Yeah.
Jenee Halstead:
How do you feel now about performing and when was the last time you were up on stage? Gosh, I had a show this last summer in Milwaukee and it was really hard because of COVID. I'm realizing that the muscle to perform is, it takes a lot of like really getting used to stress, pain which is good. I mean, when we face pain, we can take on more pain. And I don't mean the unhealthy pain. I mean, the pain that gives us life force and drives growth, right? But I'm just... It's crazy because it's like this last week, it's been literally a week, where I'm now just kind of getting in touch with a trauma that really caused me to kind of start backing away from performing even before COVID hit. And so, and a part of that is like feeling very scared to let my voice out politically. I mean, I have a political voice. I always have. And I think basically, long story short was I found a piece of Confederate literature in my mother's house over Christmas couple in 2019. And we ended up having, they ended up, it ended up being an assault, like a physical assault. And it changed my nervous system. I went into freeze and um, it changed how I was able to feel about being political. And I'm just realizing now that being a political art artist feels scary. Yeah. Whereas before I just, I had no fear around it. I was like, here's my voice. Here's what I have to say. If you don't like it, go to hell. You know, this is what I have to say in the world. So I think.
I think I will be coming back soon because I think I'm finally like unfolding what has been holding me back, which is just like the terror around and the traumas around what happens as a woman when you open your mouth. Yeah. About anything, anything. But I think I'm ready. I think I'm ready to come back. I think it's going to be really uncomfortable, really uncomfortable, but I think I'm ready to kind of face that discomfort and pain and finally kind of like know what it's about. And luckily my creative force created this thing called Muscle Music and created the safe space to lead and also be a part of the community. I mean, like having, knowing that I have that resource makes me feel a lot more emboldened to just sort of move forward with the sort of rubble of COVID and the rubble of the trauma before that. So yeah, that's where I am.
Ruby Rose:
What about you? Can I ask you, where are you? And should we book a show is my question.
Jenee Halstead:
Yes, definitely. So I can stand in the corner. I can't get myself up on stage again, not like it was. And I'm thinking a lot about what that could look like. And that's part of my commitment is joining your platform. The other thing is I don't want to do singer songwriter stuff. Like it was kind of boring for me for a while. There's just some part of like, even the music scene and industry doesn't matter. It just to me is kind of boring. So I just made a commitment to myself that I wasn't going to go back there, but I'm really exploring voice as a mechanism to help other people heal. And I'm doing it in the medicine space with my husband. So he serves, he serves a frog medicine and, um, I assist and I hold the polarity, the feminine polarity. And I do a lot of work with my voice and where I'm seeing, and just through my own medicine journey, and I do a specific kind of sacrament, it's like a heart opening medicine. And there's different types of medicines, like there's cacao and there's sassafras and there's magnolia, but that's...I'm in that space of exploration and opening my voice there. So when I'm in the medicine in community, I just open my voice and start singing and I sort of let whatever codes or whatever come out. And I get a lot of feedback after the journeys that my voice helped.
Jenee Halstead (43:35.246):
you know, an individual get through the evening or so I was like, wow, this is really kind of where I want to be. And so when I started assisting my husband, I use my voice as a sort of a gateway for for the individual that we're working with to stay kind of in a stream of present consciousness while they're kind of going far out. And so it's been a really interesting exploration because it completely takes me out of my ego and it puts me totally into some sort of space of like something else is taking me over. You know, something else is sounding through me. And, and I even like the sounds, I just will dial in and maybe one person needs like more guttural low sounds. Another person needs like very high pitched. It just really depends on, um, on the, on the needs of the individual and kind of what I'm picking up. So in that way, it's just really amazing because it feels like really purpose driven work. So that's, yeah, that's where I'm at. And I'm like, if I could do that in some sort of public way of channeling or creating music that feels sacred to me, I think I would be, you know.
Ruby Rose:
It's so amazing. I mean, that is performing. It is. It's just a different kind of, it's like when you're performing at a show,
and you're coming with the intention of regulation, right? Like as like, say you're playing Passim or like some club, right? The audience doesn't know about the transmission. They know when they leave the club and they're like, I feel totally different. I feel amazing. Like that was amazing. I feel different. I have to come back. Like they just have this change, right? But in a sacred space, it's like they're coming, consciously. And in a way it's like, could anyone want a better audience? Right? Could anyone crave an audience that was more primed for like what we're here to do? Exactly. So in a way it makes complete sense that you would want to sing for healers who are wanting to be healed. Yeah. Or, or find meaning. I mean, it's, it's just as valid if not more than any coffee shop show, you know?
Jenee Halstead:
It's giving me the, for the first time in my life, the deepest sense of satisfaction of like, okay, I don't have to give up on my dreams. I don't have to give up on my voice. Like there was just a point after COVID where I was like, well, I guess this is it. I guess this is, you know, all there is and...I guess I'm not going back to the stage, you know?
Ruby Rose:
So. Yeah, I think it's amazing when you follow the voice, like the little small voice that's like telling you what to do. Like during, before and during COVID. Like the trauma that happened to me had to happen. Like it had to happen. I had to hit a wall. There was an overworking, like there was a dysregulation that was gonna hit a wall. It hit a wall in a super traumatic way, but still it was like, I was meant to evolve. I was meant to hit that wall. And when I see what happened, I'm like, how did this happen? Like I'm waking up and leading people on zoom through Qigong and like nervous system regulation, like how did this happen? And it couldn't be more fulfilling. There's no, there's no scenario which could be more fulfilling. And I'm just like, and, and now my partner and I are starting to produce music together and we're starting to think about releases and I'm moving in that in a much more regulated way. And it's just like, when you follow, oh, here's what I was gonna say. Like during the pandemic, I had this feeling of like, I was like, well, maybe I should get a therapy degree. And my body was going, no, hell no. It was just like, this doesn't make sense for you in any capacity. And also I didn't wanna play shows. Like there were a lot of artists that were just continuing to play. My whole body was just saying, no, be still. Learn to use this time, this precious time to finally find a new set point in your body. What other time in history would be better to find a new regulated set point in your body so that when you come out the other side, you're a completely new butterfly? Like there's no, like, so my body was like, no, don't play. Play your primary instrument. Yes. You know, and watching what's happened with you and with me. And it's like, I think there is a source. I mean, I really, I'm a super atheist, but I really believe in when you follow your deepest knowing that really amazing things happen that you just absolutely cannot create or conceive like, ooh, let me create the coolest plan for myself. It's like, it's going to lead you in a direction that you're going to be like, you want me to do that, like really? And then it will show you why.
Jenee Halstead:
Yeah, it's just so like, for me, my whole music career was about proving to other people and always abandoning myself.
You know, and I think that really comes from that space of what we talked about earlier with with our parents and, you know, not being in a space of safe and social and having that, you know, like for me, it was Annie and it was I was like, I could do Annie like I had my Fisher Price record, you know, and I like it. But yeah, fast forward. And then, you know, here I am constantly abandoning myself. I was completely unhappy. And this thing starts to unravel very organically since I met my husband. And all of a sudden there's these things coming in. My voice is doing stuff I've never even knew I was capable of doing. And that like...you know, that source, like you're, you're talking about that still small voice, you know, it's like, that is for me, whether it, whatever it is, what, what, whether it's, you know, our higher self and what people want to call that, maybe it's our nervous systems, you know when they have the opportunity to rest and, and be still, you know.
Ruby Rose:
I, I so resonate with like, obviously our, our sort of like, the way that we were trying to find safety was different in our sort of musical paths. What is similar is this idea, which I'm really, I'm in the sort of camp of proving through muscle music that you don't have to steal from your own life to be an artist. But the problem is we don't have a lot of people doing it. We don't have a lot of examples. And so even me, there's parts of myself, even though this is my life's mission, is like, is it true? Can I really do this thing and not steal from my joy. Right. Meaning my, you know, for years I would, you know, just buy the shittiest, cheapest food so I could make a music video or, you know, not spend time with family, not create the friendships that I needed to be making in service of like, oh no, I always need to be making art. I always need to be, I need to be on top of this. I need to be the, like I need, I have to be successful because I have to be in super play at all times or I'm not safe. Yeah. And watching my life crumble because I couldn't create safety in this very important safe and social realm in which we have to build a life and have shelter and food and we have to work and you know, all of the things that create really grounded safety. And so I preach it every day to Muslim music and to myself, frankly, that we have to that there is a brave new artist that can live, love, enjoy, and be highly creative at the same time. It's just a different equation with different rules and different kinds of communities, different priorities, different ways of thinking, different ways of being. And none of our institutions are set up to support those artists. And so that's what I find. That's what I wake up every day being like, this is exciting. Yeah. You know, it feels a little scary, but it's exciting to think about.
Jenee Halstead:
Preach. This is, I think this is an amazing space to end our hour. And I'm just so excited to see it evolve. And I'm totally excited to be a part of it. Yeah. Thank you for having me. Thank you. Thank you so much. What an incredible conversation And I look forward to more same. Thank you.
