Jenee Halstead (01:40.526)
I am so excited about this podcast episode. I have Hayley McGee with me. Hayley and I go way back to Boston days like 10 or more years ago when we were both songwriters in Boston, kind of running in the same music scene. And Hayley now is a world renowned certified coach who helps people around the world
break people pleasing patterns and master the art of self advocacy. So she is a genius at helping people set boundaries. And it's been so amazing watching your Instagram feed blow up. I know how hard you've been working the last like five plus years on this topic. And I think so many people are really benefiting from what you're
offering as far as education around this topic and I have resonated so much with your work. I'm really grateful. Okay, so first question. Bring it on. Why is it so challenging to set boundaries? well, so I think that's a great question and there are so many answers, but in my experience working with People Pleaser specifically,
I think so many of us, especially in childhood or when we were kind of coming into this world, learned like implicitly or explicitly or through our culture that, you know, I am worthy and valuable and lovable when I make other people comfortable. Yeah. Or say yes to what other people want from me. And that's a kind of insidious lesson in a way, because it's great to be kind to other people. But once we learn that our value lies and...
abandoning ourselves to make other people comfortable, it becomes really hard to set boundaries because by setting a boundary, it's like I'm risking what makes me lovable. I'm putting my worth and my lovability at risk by saying no to somebody. And for me and my clients, that's been that's like the hardest thing of all about them. Yeah. You know, being like an empath and being a highly sensitive person, I can really relate to this and.
Jenee Halstead (03:57.55)
Also being a survivor of trauma, it's just like my boundaries were just not there. It was like a ooey gooey cell that had no, you know, that was permeable. And I feel like my output, like as far as my neuroception going into a room and constantly like feeling things out to see if I'm safe, that is...
That's what's going on. But then at the same time, like the thought of really drawing like healthy boundaries with people, it just, I don't know. It gives me like the cold sweats. Like I would rather escape a room than have to set a boundary. Yeah, I love that idea. I'm imagining like a tree's roots for this idea of like extended nervous system. Because we are, I mean, it's like it's blessing curse.
I think so many of us are hyper attuned to others emotions and even subtle shifts in their mood. And like, I think that can be a superpower because it makes us incredibly empathetic and receptive and attuned. But once we start privileging other people's comfort at the expense of or to the detriment of our own, I think that's where stuff gets messy. Yeah, in your bio, you talk about a specific romantic relationship.
that's sort of the catalyst for the people pleasing work that you do now and realizing just how much you had self -abandoned. And I knew you during the time and got to witness a little bit of this relationship. Yeah. Wild. I mean, looking back, I was in this relationship that had gone on for a while. And I didn't realize it till after, of course. But looking back, it's like I was so hungry.
for love, as so many of us are. I just wanted to be loved and cared for. And I think I've learned along the way that to love someone else meant to put yourself aside for them and for the sake of the relationship. And that happened over a period of months and years, and it was crazy. Like, I didn't even, it was so slow that I didn't notice it happening. But by the end of that relationship, I'd become kind of like a shell of myself. Yeah.
Jenee Halstead (06:21.678)
Yeah, I remember like even towards the end of the relationship, I just remember seeing how much shifted for you and almost like you I mean you've always been like a go -getter you're like super smart and I feel like you were doing a lot of like also managing of this person's like artistry you're doing a lot for this person but I remember
Just seeing you almost go inside yourself. It was like knowing you from, you know, and I didn't know you that well, but we, you know, we ran in the same circle. And when I first met you, you were just like, I mean, you were the first person to jump off the boat when we went out into the ocean one day. And then really like seeing you towards the end of that relationship and just, I felt that stress just.
coming off of you and I sensed like how shut down you were and how you felt, you know? It was a shutdown because I think that's what it was. It was kind of like the shadow. And I think like if I had to define what was happening and what precipitated that the simplest way of putting it is like I think in a lot of relationships what happens is you come together with a person and there's a honeymoon stage and then you reach the point where.
both parties needs are being brought up. And sometimes those needs are aligned and sometimes compromise makes it easy. But in so many relationships, you reach a point where like the other person can't give you what you need or you can't give them what they need. And I think ideal, maybe you try it and you work out different solutions. But then I think ultimately you reach a point of being like, okay, this is a mismatch. Yes, you need to be blame involved.
It can just be like, we are not compatible. Like our attachment needs aren't compatible. Our jealousies and possessiveness things aren't compatible, whatever. But I think what I've noticed that I did and what a lot of people I work with do is they say, no, this relationship must be sustained at all costs. Even if that means I have to try to suppress or push down my needs, even if it means we're going to be fighting every night for years because we want that love. And that's what I did.
Jenee Halstead (08:43.278)
you know, that's what I did. And the reason that relationship ended was actually because he ended it, the other person ended it. And at the time, it felt like the worst thing that ever happened to me, but thank God, because like, then I don't think I would have had the strength to even realize how bad it was for me. Yeah, I think it was a great gift. And then for you to ultimately, I believe that was part of what helped you move into your career. I know,
You were doing a lot of artist coaching at the time and then, you know, had decided to go get your certification in coaching. Yeah, I'm just curious, like, what is at the core of that that makes us want to just stay at all costs? It's so much fear. I think fear is huge.
Like, God, I mean, there's so much, I think fear and it's just like this desire. Once I think it's also false memory because when a relationship begins, you have great moments. Honeymoon stage, right? You're being loved and adored. And for so many of us, we've like yearned for that feeling. Totally. But then so when the relationship starts to wither and then there's animosity and pain, we retain the memory of the beginning. Mm -hmm.
it's possible for me to be loved like that. So I will stay no matter what. So there's that memory. And then I think there's also this like scarcity mindset of like, no one else could ever love me this way. You know, the big scary world, like outside of our familiar comfort zone. Totally. There are a lot of forces. A lot of forces at work. But I'm so curious about like, you said in your bio that like, you had no idea kind of what you
Wanted or what you needed like you didn't you just didn't know who you were really and and that part to me also seems terrifying It's like I've been there myself, you know not knowing yourself outside of the reflection of like another person You know So how did you Heal into that like how did you decide like this is what I like this is you know, what what kind of what did that look like? What did?
Jenee Halstead (11:06.638)
What kind of time did that take and how did you give yourself the space for that? Man, that is like, I love what you said about knowing yourself even when you're not being reflected back. I often like to think of, I often make the distinction between like people pleasing and self abandonment. Cause it speaks to what you're asking. Cause like people pleasing is when we put other people first, the detriment of ourselves. But self abandonment actually goes way deeper.
because it's the phenomenon of not only putting others first, but also even when you're completely alone with yourself, even in the absence of others, you don't know who you are, what you need, what you want. It's just like this void. And that's what I think of when I think of that time, because that's where I was at, like completely disconnected. And I remember for months after that breakup, I was kind of like walking around like a ghost.
And I felt so weird because I was like, I don't know what I want. Like, at least in that relationship, I'd been able to say, well, I want to marry him and I want to have kids with him and I want to travel around the world where he goes. Like it was all about him. After I remember even going to the grocery store and looking at the shelves and being like, what do I like to eat? No idea. How do I like to spend my free time? No idea. And that process, at least for me and what I so many of my clients have the same experience.
You know, like they'll be in a therapy session and their therapist will be like, give them an assignment. Like, I want you to spend one whole day doing nothing other than what it is you want to do. And those clients sit there and just look around the room. Like I have no idea. And so it's resonant. It's like actually a pretty common thing. And so I think what I had to do and what I encourage people to do is just, it's like throwing paint at the wall and seeing what sticks. You have to just.
say yes to things and experiment. And your, your self never dies. Like that self that's maybe been smothered under layers of people pleasing is still there. And that self will react and respond when you try something that lights them up. But it's also about having trust that that part of you isn't gone. It's just a little bit buried. What do you think? it's so beautiful. So well said. And
Jenee Halstead (13:32.462)
I feel like I'm just healing, like listening to you talk and having this conversation and just feeling it through and thinking about my own journey of healing, self abandonment, which I was like a pro at. And it's really interesting because I do find like, I was like in the mirror the other day and I was like, do I take on like the identity of every guy I've ever been with? Because I'm married now and,
I'm doing a few things like with my husband, we're working together and I started down this like this journey of psychedelics with him and psychedelic medicine and so I I find it really interesting because before I'd be like I would never do psychedelics just my like my home that I grew up with I grew up with a dad who was like a total hippie and like always was telling me like war stories about
So my fear around psychedelics were like huge. But now I've come into like medicine in a really unique and beautiful way and I'm learning about it. But I was like in the bathroom the other day and I was looking through my relationships and I was like, I feel like I do take on this identity or become a part of whatever it is that the other person like is doing.
And I really had to question myself, like, is this truly a path that I'm wanting to go down? Am I involved in this for the right reasons? Like, am I just doing this because I always tend to like slide into, you know? Yes. man. I love the word slide because I feel like it's that discreet. Like it just happens. It's like, whoop, there I am doing.
And it's this fine line between intentionally sharing your partner's passions as an act of love and interest versus like, I know exactly, I still grapple with that even now. Like all these years later, I completely relate to what you're saying because I think when there is intimacy, the risk of losing yourself and the other person increases for obvious reasons. Totally. And I wonder, you know,
Jenee Halstead (15:48.846)
As far as your clientele base, I'm guessing that they're like 95 % women. I could be wrong. It's been, you know what's wild is it started that way. In the beginning, I was really marketing myself to women. And so that, but you know what's been wild, Janay, is that in recent months, I would say it's been at least 20 to 30 % like men as well as like non -binary folks and trans folks. And that's actually been so cool because it just goes to show that like this is in many ways.
a universal problem. And we as women face certain cultural conditioning that really encourages us to self abandon. And it's been interesting to notice the ways that cultural conditioning also comes up for people of other genders, maybe in different ways, you know, but for men, maybe not sharing your true emotions because then you're not stoic and masculine or. Yeah, I was just going to say that's such an amazing statistic you're sharing. It's so beautiful because it's also.
revealing that we're entering this time, I think, where men are finally starting to feel like they can come forward and be vulnerable. It's like, I don't have to ride the white horse on my steed. Because I know men go through as much self -abandonment as women do. It's like, that's part of this system that's crumbling that we were trained into. It's like...
Patriarchy just destroys both masculine and feminine energies. And so I think that that's amazing. It's super cool. And it's so cool to have these men in my classes just kind of speaking from the heart and really reckoning with the material. It's great. And I'm so with you. The way these systems crush us. I think this really came up for me. It was really fascinating. I wrote an article last year, something about the phenomenon of self -abandoning.
kind of in physical intimacy and how so many folks I work with have this experience of saying yes to intimacy physically when they really don't want to. Right. And it's just kind of like, cause my partner's initiating or because the guy I went on a date with bought me dinner. You know, there's so many, this is not talked about enough, but it happens. Yeah. And it's challenging because the consent is present. Like we may be saying like, yes, I really want to be intimate with you, but inside,
Jenee Halstead (18:11.534)
The desire is not there. And so many of us are really good at faking it because we've been taught to fake it since we were zero years old. So anyway, I shared this article and some of this research with my following online. And what was really interesting is the number of men who chimed in being like, I really appreciate you sharing this. I, as a man, feel pressure.
to always want to be intimate, to always want to initiate. You know what I mean? Like that's the pressure men face. And so it was a great window to kind of open that and see like, okay, like we as women are really disadvantaged in this culture. And men also, like you said, are deeply affected by patriarchal sexual norms, I guess you could say. Totally. Wow, that is amazing. I'm curious for you as far as, I talked a little bit about before we got on the podcast, just,
about your work with kink. And I'm really curious, like how you even got to this place where you wanted to explore this world and realized and gave yourself permission to be like, whoa, this is something I've always sort of, was it something you always had inside of you and you were a little curious or did you have one experience and you were like, I see. man. I always joke that I've been kinky since the womb.
I just think it was like, my earliest, earliest fantasies involved elements of power exchange, which is kind of where my kink lives in sort of like the dominance and submission realm. Yes. But no one was talking about that. And especially then, I think now it's become more mainstream. So especially as like a feminist or whatever, and someone who is very much like women.
power and like women equality, the idea of being like having a collar on or being like submissive to a man. I had huge ethical conflicts about that, which so many people go through in their kink journey. And then I just dated a couple of like lovely non -kinky partners so I couldn't express that side of myself. And it's really only been within the last three years or so where I've been able to say, to understand.
Jenee Halstead (20:28.43)
that my kink is not a pathology. Yeah. Embedded into kink is really strong structures of like consent and boundaries and desire. Like I can express these desires in a healthy way as long as my partner is there with me in that healthy like co -created space. So I feel so much more actualized now that I have the chance to express that side of me.
Totally. I was just meditating on it this week as the interview was coming up and I was like, it must be a really safe way. To me, that's creating a container. And there's rules within a container. I'm sure there's levels of communication. I'm sure there's different partners and different levels of experience can be like...
probably like really mind blowing and eye opening and like, you know, but it just see, it just to me, it's like, I can see why, you know, people explore this. It's, it's to me very fascinating. And like, it's, I have a few friends that are Polly and I'm, and for me, I'm like Polly just would overwhelm me. Cause I'm like, I'm a hard enough time just with myself.
Like, I can barely manage the relationship with myself and I don't know how people do it, but it's, I've learned through my friends that like they have such better time management, they have better communication, they have better transparency in their relationships because they have to be. That's so true because it's a container like the same thing. It's like,
there are all these norms around we have to communicate. If this is gonna get off the ground, we have to know how to state our needs, set boundaries, know what the limits are. And there's such a huge overlap in the Venn diagram between Kinky and Polyfolks. And I kind of think that's part of the reason, like they know, we know wrong relational skills. Totally. And as for the container thing, what's been interesting in like the BDSM world is that,
Jenee Halstead (22:44.27)
I and so many people I know involved in kink have some degree of sexual trauma. So it really confuses people when you say like, I'm doing these kinky things with my partner. I even had a therapist once being like, well, that just sounds like assaults. When referring to my consensual kinky experience, I fired her. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. Good for you. But that's the difference is that now we're going through these actions that not only are like hot to me,
But I've consented, we've discussed rules. And so it's almost like I'm reclaiming my power in those moments by ironically, surrendering my power consensually. It's like a total mind explosion. And it's so beautiful. It's so much like the expression of the masculine, feminine energies on the planet, actually, and just the dance of giving and receiving and surrendering and
know, it's just that, I think that's an incredible dance and I totally can see where you're taking back your power in that, in that dynamic, you know? Totally, I love the thought of it being that dance of energies because it is, and it produces altered states of mind. Like a bunch of research has shown that like both for the dominant and the submissive, especially the submissive, you almost get into this,
What's an equivalent to like a meditative trance, essentially, because of that complete safety and serenity of sort of like surrendering and releasing that tight grip on control that I think most of us spend our days in. It's why I mean, it's chemical. It's wild. It's amazing. Yeah, it's interesting because it's kind of where I've come to my place of psychedelics because I think most of my fear around.
using psychedelics was this loss of control and that idea of that loss is terrifying especially I also have a background in sexual trauma and so for me I would see myself like all through my life like trying to control like every you know every situation that I was in.
Jenee Halstead (25:08.814)
And when you get into a situation where you're under a medicine that is gonna take you places, you know, or bring up aspects of the psyche or, you know, even take you to your death, it's like, or take you to your death portal. It's like, you don't have control. And what's interesting is none of us do. Right. It's an illusion. It's an illusion. But in setting boundaries.
and creating the container for a relationship, for a kink session, whatever, it's like that, I don't know what that is, but it's part of that universal safety net. It's like, okay, I think at least it defines parameters. yes, completely. You know, it's like.
Okay, I know how far out the room goes and I know what this looks like and you know. Yes, and there's safety to be found in that for sure. And it's in, I've really wanted, my partner and I have been talking about really wanting to like dip our toes deeper into the psychedelic space because I think that like control is so weird because yes, I've had to learn how to take control of what I can through boundaries and expressing myself truthfully and like these are things I quote can control.
but also reckoning with just like the conditions of life and knowing how little there is that's truly, I can't chart out the course of my life. Like I have no idea what's coming. And better at surrendering to that is something I want. I want it bad. I'm so curious, you decided, you're in your coaching program and how, was it because of this realization of the relationship that you were like, this is something I need to deep dive on?
Or were you just in the coaching program and you were like, this is really my jam? Or was it just like, or was it like, this is so painful, I need to mine it. Can I say like, yes to all of it? I think like, you know, the coaching training I did was wonderful and coaching is very, very broad. I think in the simplest sense, if I had to describe coaching, it would be helping people identify what they want and help them get there.
Jenee Halstead (27:27.15)
I mean, it's really that broad. So I think a lot of people go to coaching and they become like executive coaches or business coaches or whatever. And I knew for me for a while it was music. And then my interest really shifted because I was like, I care so much more about these matters of the heart. And it's the classic like wounded healer. I was like, in a way, coaching is almost in and of itself breaking the people pleasing pattern saying what you want and working toward it. I mean, that's the antithesis of.
people pleasing. And I just knew like, for me at the time I was using the word codependency to sort of define what I'd experienced and who I wanted to work with. So I was working as like a codependency recovery coach. And then with time I brought into that because I think that label really resonates with some people and really puts others off. So I just wanted to say like, I want to help you advocate for yourself and you know, discover some independence.
Yeah, and I think also the word codependency has so much, almost like a negative connotation. And it's, it's rife with like all sorts of, I think a lot of people don't even know what that means. Right. You know? Completely. It's really, it's been, I mean, the word itself has used, has had like a million definitions. It started back in the addiction movement of the 80s when it was like, a codependent is someone who's dating an alcoholic.
I mean, that's the origins of the term. And so it's just like, there's so many, there are so many different applications now. Yeah. It's so interesting to me. It's like, when I emailed you, I was like, this is definitely like the last, I don't know why, but it was just like the last area that I wanted to look at in my life. I've been on a healing journey for like 15, 20 years.
I remember even like I used to get your emails or like I'd read some of your articles at first, you know, when you were first putting stuff out and I'd just be like, no, no, no, no, no, no. It was super triggering for me. Yeah. What have you like, I'm so curious in the time since when you've been looking at this aspect within yourself, like what have you discovered or like what have some of your takeaways been? I think it's just that, that pain of self abandonment.
Jenee Halstead (29:46.414)
It's like being able to even put yourself in front of that mirror and be like, I abandoned myself all the time. I don't know how to set boundaries with people. I don't know how to say no. That was, it was, it was just like, even though I was healing, I was just constantly like with every single person, you know, constantly self abandoning and,
I just felt so unsafe in the world. my God, that's resonant. I know.
And then I think it was finally like, I don't know, within the last year I started like reading a lot of your Instagram posts and
I guess I just like, I finally decided that I wanted to face that music and show up for myself. Cause I knew like things weren't really shifting in my life. You know, I just knew, I was like, I'm like a leaf in the wind. You know, and people don't even like to be around someone who doesn't, who's like Pollyanna people pleaser that like doesn't show up authentically.
You know? That's one of the wild flip sides of this. I actually think people pleaser is kind of a misnomer because when you flip the script and you think, well, would I want someone to say yes to me when they mean no? Would I want someone to be inauthentic with me? Like we're all like, no, like, no, tell me the truth. So we think we're pleasing people, but it's actually like, it's really not about that. And and you're wasting someone's time. You know?
Jenee Halstead (31:38.414)
And that's like, but I, you know, for me it's just like, it just stems from such deep trauma, you know, and not having the voice. And so it was really interesting because I was like, okay, I'm teaching and coaching women to find their voice. And I'm like setting up this program and I am not walking my talk. And I had to, yeah, yeah. I had to walk away from launching the program.
Like you felt misaligned with what you were inside and wow. Yeah. I was like, I can't be coaching women on finding their voice. If I can't do that for myself, I can't even speak my truth. You know, I love like you even saying that, like, I just think that that's so vulnerable and so real. And I actually feel like this must be, this must be more common than we think, because I think so many of us go into healing.
heal others and heal ourselves, like the wounded parts. So I resonate with what you're saying. Like there have been times when I felt I've needed to take a break from some of my posting or some of my workshops because in those moments I feel like I'm not walking the walk or I don't feel connected to that stronger self in me. Hard. Yeah. And then there's the part of us that's like, we're learning as we teach and
what you're doing is so important and there's not a lot of people in the field actually teaching what you're teaching. So you're, you know, it's like you're a leader and you're a thought leader in this field and you're helping others and that's something you have to remember, you know, it's like, and I went back to, you know, I'm slowly going back to it and just realizing like, okay, well, first of all, is this truly my passion? This could be part of my passion, but also like, I don't have to have it.
all figured out, you know? That's a fantastic point. We think we have to. But then ironically, you know what's wild is sometimes I notice having a larger Instagram is actually really fun because it kind of gives you really cool big picture data on what people want or what they feel because you get a lot of responses from people. Yeah. And you get to see like what types of posts resonate or what type of language really fires people up.
Jenee Halstead (34:07.31)
Yeah. And ironically, in my own work, I've noticed that the highest performing hosts or whatever tend to be ones when I'm kind of sharing from the heart about something vulnerable, ways in which I'm actively coming against my people pleasing in real time. Which is exactly what you're talking about, about like not having it all figured out and kind of just letting yourself be where you are. I think I don't want to speak like for everyone, but I think a lot of people like learning from teachers who are not just like,
shepherds on the journey, but like they're with you in it as well. I totally agree. Someone who's like in the trenches. I mean, why would you learn from someone who doesn't have the embodied understanding? Right, they're not going to be able to like get it or get the unique growing pains of this work. I think that's the thing that irks me about like modern.
wellness culture or whatever, is that there's an element of toxic positivity to it, or it's like really prescriptive, like just do these actions. But what that all leaves out is the emotional underbelly, like the fear, the guilt, the incredible self -doubt we feel in this work, like the feelings of paralysis or the feelings of disconnection, loneliness, like that is literally, in my opinion, 75 % of the work. It's everything.
And then all the chemical responses, they go along with those emotions. And a lot of times that just puts people in paralysis. You know, like they cannot move forward. Because they're just like, they don't even know how to shift or, you know, understand even what's happening emotionally for them in the moment. You know, I think a lot of times, like when I feel a deep sense of like,
shame or I don't know, shame's a big one, but it's almost like this black wall goes up and it like blank slates my memory. And then I can't really move forward on working on an aspect of healing that I wanted to because I can't touch the core of what it is that is wounding me or is wounded.
Jenee Halstead (36:27.438)
I don't know how to describe that, but the emotional aspect is, you know, it's sifting through and understanding and recognizing that underbelly is so, so important. Totally. And that feeling of shutdown, like the black wall, it's like beautiful language to describe that. It's hard because it's like being able to identify. We can't always control it, but sometimes being able to identify, like, I don't want to do things that are going to send me into complete shutdown.
That's something I work with people a lot on is like being able to identify like incremental, like small ways of strengthening that muscle of like self advocacy. Cause I've seen and I've experienced myself when I go too heavy into it, cause I'm feeling ambitious and I really want to heal myself and everything. I've been there too, where it's like the nervous system state, it just becomes so activated that I'm just like, whoops, like now I'm in survival mode and I'm going to spend the next week on my couch, not leaving my apartment.
Because I feel just enclosed in this pit of like... Totally. Yeah, it's like the dorsal freeze that... And I'm so curious as far as like for you, are you teaching your clients to find like their no and their yes and in doing so, do you have a methodology or, you know, a way that you're helping them kind of sort through that? Yeah.
I think one thing that I talk about, one premise that informs a lot of my work with people is a lot of people come to me saying they want to learn to set boundaries and advocate for themselves. And what I try to teach them is that I use the metaphor of an iceberg. So setting a boundary and speaking your truth is at the top of the iceberg. But beneath that, there are all these layers that have to come first.
So things like emotional literacy, being able to identify what you feel. Because our feelings are like boundary signposts. Like if I'm feeling resentful or overwhelmed or angry, I need to be able to identify that so I can move into, okay, then what are my needs? What is this feeling telling me that I need? That's also hard for the recovering people pleaser to just name that. Totally. Then...
Jenee Halstead (38:51.694)
you have to feel you are worthy of that need being met, which is like, that's the one right before the boundary. So only then you've identified the feeling, you've identified the need, you think you're worthy of the need, then you set the boundary. But no one talks about that. But like all of that is required. It's all required. And I think at the base of that is the worthiness piece. And for me, that's like,
where the slippery, where things have been so slippery with me. Because it's deeply painful and there's a big part that's like, I don't know why I have this or where it came from, which I, you know, it's like, I know there's a lot to do with trauma. And then at one point I was just like, I don't even know if this is healable. You know, I don't even know how I gained my self -worth.
It's such a huge thing. So that is not something I'm able to address fully with people because it just feels like trying to put the cosmos in a jar. Like it's so big. But again, for me, like as a coach, one thing my training did really help me with was thinking about incremental stuff. So I don't like something I encourage people when they're like, all right, the truth is I do know what my needs are. I just don't know if I'm like worthy of them. Though a simple tool, and this might sound trite,
But it's like at the smallest degree, it's like, all right, well, what if let's just imagine that you did believe you were worthy of it or even better. Let's imagine someone who's not even you. Like, let's imagine someone who believes they are worthy of having this need net. How would they proceed? What would they ask for? How would they exist in the world? And just being able to identify like those tiny little steps, we act as if as if we were worthy.
I think there's a lot of like wisdom in the idea that we often think we need to feel a certain way in order to act a certain way. Yes. Sometimes we flip the script acting a certain way then creates the feeling of worthiness within us. Yeah, I mean, and that's like even manifesting 101. That's like, you know, and the whole fake it, tell you make it thing, you know. There's value in it. You know what I mean? Like again, within reason.
Jenee Halstead (41:13.23)
Like we're not going to shove ourselves into an activated state, but just like small steps. Totally. I love that. It's almost like putting on your worthiness spacesuit. You know? So much that you do see. Right? And from this place, like who can you become or encourage people to channel like a role model? Like, okay, who's someone you know that really acts like they're worthy? Yeah. Like Beyonce. Like what would Beyonce do? Yeah. I love that.
It's funny. I mean for me like there was some part of me that felt really abandoned by like source that I was just deeply alone and Doing psychedelics has opened me up to these deep understand understandings of like how how much even Gaia like the planet Earth like so supports us and loves us so much and and also opening up to
communicating with like my guides and feeling that like that sense of love that has come so deeply like into my cellular matrix that that in that way it's that has really loosened up a lot of that and then I and then I can start to walk that path or I continue to walk that path of like I am here for a reason I'm worthy to be here and my struggles have been
part of my story and my gift to help others, you know? I'm like hearing you and just like so happy for you that you've like connected to that source and that Gaia and that it's been so healing. Like I think I often feel like existentially untethered to anything. So that like I hear how important that is. Maybe other people don't feel that or experience that for, but for me it took like this sort of dropping of the veils.
of the illusion of Maya for me to really be like, okay, wow, you know? It reminds me of attachment. Like, you know that classic study where they put like a mother and a baby in the room and when the mother is attuned to the baby and paying attention, it's only then that the baby feels free to wander off and play. Like when there's that secure attachment. It almost reminds me of that, but with source.
Jenee Halstead (43:36.622)
Yeah, and you're feeling more connected and held in source. It then empowers you to do the venture off and like be more in the world. Totally. Yeah, that's so beautiful. I'm curious. I love I'm wondering if you're going to like write a book on emotional literacy or anything. I would just like I would gobble that up. Yeah.
I actually have and my agent and I have an agent and we are just about to send the book out to some publishers and see if they bite about the last round of edits right now. And I spent like all last year just like writing this book and it was so hard. I mean, it's still in the works. It's very much in the works, but my God, it was so fun. Cause like so much stuff these days is very ephemeral. It's like a post here, a sound bite here.
So to have the opportunity to sort of brain dump like the whole big picture idea into a book was just so fun. So hopefully that's out in the world over the next year or two. I have a good, good feeling about it. Even that I asked, I was like, I really want to read this book. And so I have a good feeling that that is gonna, that's going to come to fruition soon for you. Thank you. It's exciting. It's very exciting.
I feel like we could talk all day. I might have to have you on again. I know you have to go. You're around too. Yes, I would love that. Have to have you on again soon.
Yeah. It's such a good conversation. I feel like I have to learn more about this actually. I know. Because so much of what you said about like the shame blackness and like the source and the sort of reconnection, like that feels really deep and important. Yeah. Yeah. And having this conversation has helped me kind of put words to some of the feelings. It's like, there's literal language we can create around this. So that's really, really amazing. Thank you so much.
Jenee Halstead (45:39.246)
Thank you, my friend. It's so good to see you. So good to see you. You look so beautiful. Let's keep the channel open. Cool. Great.