UpLIFT You: Strong Body, Strong Mind
09 | Flip The Script!: Leanne Gets Interviewed By A Lifelong Friend
From debating championships to gymnastics mats, my lifelong friend Carrie Cox joins me, Leanne Knox, for a heartwarming journey down memory lane, revisiting the pivotal moments that have shaped our lives and the enduring lessons on resilience, growth, and the human spirit. As we swap stories and roles, Carrie, a master storyteller, takes the lead, guiding us through a labyrinth of emotions and memories that reveal the profound effect of our formative experiences on our present selves. Our laughter-filled exchange stands as a testament to the myriad ways friendship and shared history can influence not only who we become but also how we connect with and uplift others.
Athletic endeavors and gymnastics mishaps transition seamlessly into the life lessons learned from coaching, teamwork, and the transformative nature of mindset in sports. Reflecting on my shift from the solitary world of gymnastics to the collaborative spirit of touch football, I uncover the joy and strength found in community. Motherhood enters the narrative as I recount the resilience required to navigate caring for four children under five and the vital role of connection found through humorous mishaps and the shared experiences that bind us.
As the episode wanes, Carrie and I pivot towards future aspirations, finding joy in familiar places, and the continued battle against imposter syndrome. We emphasize the importance of mental and physical vigor, inspiring you to perhaps rekindle connections or embark on new adventures. Concluding with an invitation to a good-natured handstand competition, this episode isn't just a recount of past glories; it's a call to live life with joy, seek strength in all its forms, and embrace the transformative power of storytelling and connection. So, limber up, listen in, and maybe challenge a friend to your own competition of sorts.
Follow Leanne on Instagram @lkstrengthcoach
Join the Strength Seekers community and score big with a vibrant tribe of like-minded individuals, invaluable resources, coaching services tailored to your needs, special guest coaches and workshops and so much more. Click here to join today with our special listener's offer!
From debating championships to gymnastics mats, my lifelong friend Carrie Cox joins me, Leanne Knox, for a heartwarming journey down memory lane, revisiting the pivotal moments that have shaped our lives and the enduring lessons on resilience, growth, and the human spirit. As we swap stories and roles, Carrie, a master storyteller, takes the lead, guiding us through a labyrinth of emotions and memories that reveal the profound effect of our formative experiences on our present selves. Our laughter-filled exchange stands as a testament to the myriad ways friendship and shared history can influence not only who we become but also how we connect with and uplift others.
Athletic endeavors and gymnastics mishaps transition seamlessly into the life lessons learned from coaching, teamwork, and the transformative nature of mindset in sports. Reflecting on my shift from the solitary world of gymnastics to the collaborative spirit of touch football, I uncover the joy and strength found in community. Motherhood enters the narrative as I recount the resilience required to navigate caring for four children under five and the vital role of connection found through humorous mishaps and the shared experiences that bind us.
As the episode wanes, Carrie and I pivot towards future aspirations, finding joy in familiar places, and the continued battle against imposter syndrome. We emphasize the importance of mental and physical vigor, inspiring you to perhaps rekindle connections or embark on new adventures. Concluding with an invitation to a good-natured handstand competition, this episode isn't just a recount of past glories; it's a call to live life with joy, seek strength in all its forms, and embrace the transformative power of storytelling and connection. So, limber up, listen in, and maybe challenge a friend to your own competition of sorts.
Follow Leanne on Instagram @lkstrengthcoach
Join the Strength Seekers community and score big with a vibrant tribe of like-minded individuals, invaluable resources, coaching services tailored to your needs, special guest coaches and workshops and so much more. Click here to join today with our special listener's offer!
Welcome to Uplift you, creating strong bodies and minds. Get ready to power up your day with practical strength training tools, inspiring stories and build resilience of body and mind. It's time to Uplift you, together with your host, leanne Knox.
Speaker 2:All right, welcome back to the next episode of Uplift you creating strong bodies and strong minds. Today, I am very excited for our guest, who I know will bring some great stories to the table to uplift your day. I would like to introduce a very talented storyteller in her own right, and what makes this so special for me is this lady is also one of my best childhood friends of 35 years. Carrie Cox is a senior journalist, author and journalism educator who currently lives in Perth yeah, a long way from me. She managed to get you know. I don't know how many thousands of kilometres away from me, but I still get to see her every now and then.
Speaker 2:Carrie's passion is to help people tell their stories, to find their voice and access a large audience. She is a word wizard and loves the power of words to tell compelling stories. She did a journalism degree in Brisbane and has had over 25 years experience in print and online journalism. More recently, she has commenced working in radio. Her three novels sum up her brilliant ability to capture real-life relationships and put them into a funny and heartwarming story. Carrie and I have shared many life experiences together, which highlight one of my four core values and pillars of this podcast, and that being of persistence. This episode will delve into those experiences and highlight how we have both persisted in life to be where we are at right now. So, with no further ado, let me introduce Carrie.
Speaker 1:Oh, thanks so much for having me on. I'm really excited to be doing this. Thank you, it's it's such a privilege to get to um. Look, I'm so proud of you for what you've created here and this platform, um, that takes all your life lessons and and projects them out into the universe for other people to to benefit from and those people who are looking, you know, for inspiration and encouragement, and you know also the practical tools to success and becoming strong in mind and body. Like I just love that, you've selflessly put yourself out there to help those people. It's so on brand for you, leanne. Thank you, carrie. It's what you've been doing your whole life. It's what you've been doing your whole life. It's what you've been doing your whole life.
Speaker 2:Well, informally, yes, and now a little bit more formally, but what I wanted to tell the audience is this Instead of and I just said this to Carrie before we got on air instead of me talking about me to me, one of the reasons I'm very excited is because I'm going to flip that script, because, carrie, that's actually one of your powers is bringing allowing people to tell their stories in like very powerful ways, and so I am going to flip the script and let Carrie take the conversation over, as one would say, and to lead you all through some of the experiences that we've had together that have shaped us into the people that we are today, because we both uplift people in different, in similar but slightly different life experience ways. So over to you.
Speaker 1:Okay, thank you. Well, let me begin by painting the picture here. The context here is that we have been friends for 45 years, which is, you know, nothing to be sniffed at, and it does mean that we are very old, but also that we have walked a lot of life together. And I particularly want to dive back into those early years because they remain very formative. And I say remain because I personally choose to look at history, personal history as not a closed book, but a book that remains open always and that we can always go back and reread and learn from.
Speaker 1:So I think, when I thought about how to frame this interview with you, I thought it would be nice to look back on some of our memories, that within those memories also hold lessons, and I think that you you far more than me have been better at actively learning from. You are a lifelong learner and you sort of do that. I think you've always done that in an instinctive way, whereas I've got to sort of concentrate on doing that more and make that decision to be more of an active learner. But I think you know you have taken all of the the good and bad from our childhood years and you've meld, you've molded that into and shaped yourself in ways today that actually still hark back to those early days, in that I suppose you know, childhood for some people is this thing that you, you know, package away or compartmentalise and you focus on the here and now. But I think, like that, it's not, that, it's a live history. It's a history that can be, that can continue to shape us in positive ways. So let's look at that.
Speaker 1:I want to start with you and I did a lot of activities together because we were such close friends. I don't remember ever basically deciding to do a hobby without running it by you first and going, okay, how do we do this together? Do you want to do this? Because if you didn't, then I probably wouldn't have either. Right, it was just, it was a partnership, it was it was, uh, us against the world, and so one of the things that I remember us becoming quite passionate about over several years was debating. So yeah, we, we didn't mind a um, a public stout with words.
Speaker 2:Or a good argument.
Speaker 1:We like to defend our position. That's for sure. That's right, and I think that we got better and better at it. What I remember a couple of things about that that I think are lessons. One is that you chose to be the third speaker.
Speaker 1:Now, for anyone who's new not with debating um, the first and second speakers largely have their um scripts 90 or 100 done in the can, so that, um you, the only thing you have to get nervous about is just, you know um articulating well on the night. But you, as the third speaker, went in with maybe 10 percent written because you had to be 90 percent rebuttal, meaning you had to be coming up with the arguments, the words, the comebacks on the night based on what the opposition said, and we wouldn't know that till um, the actual event, which to me, was like absolutely not a, not an option. I am not going to set myself up for that sort of angst and stress, um and anxiety. I still, to this day, like to have things very prepared.
Speaker 1:You didn't and you and you did so well like you, throw you don't only you've you felt the fear. It's not like you didn't feel the fear. You did feel the fear. I know you did so well, like you felt the fear. It's not like you didn't feel the fear. You did feel the fear. I know you did. We both got very nervous, but you had this way of turning that into something like really special, really magic, and it felt really alive and compelling in those debates. It was really exciting to watch. You got so fired up because it was of the moment. It wasn't, you know, pre-cooked. You were feeling those feelings and coming up with those arguments on the night, so they were very visceral and real and I remember you even slamming your hand down on the desk and that was like completely just instinctive. So tell me, what made you feel comfortable about taking on, I think, the hardest role in a debating team?
Speaker 2:Well, I don't believe there is a hardest role, because you just said the word team and remember it's a team. So the third speaker can be as persuasive and as strong as they can, but without first and second speaker setting the scene and laying the foundation. The third speaker is only as good as the foundation that's been laid. So let me put that out there right now. But what I do believe and I haven't actually thought about this a lot until you led us through memory lane and now that I think back at it and I can look at it a little bit more objectively, because I thought at the time my favorite thing was just smashing my hand on the desk. That was fantastic, but in order to be, I just loved that. That's just a precursor to my strength days that I didn't know were coming until I was 40 when I started weightlifting. But I think back to that time and what I think is the keystone to that, the cornerstone to being able to be a good third speaker, is the ability to listen to people, is the ability to listen to people, because if you're not actively listening to people and considering what they're saying and being able to stand back from that and go, okay, this is what this person is saying. Now, what are some different points of view that I can use to attack that argument? Like, where can I come from? I can you know I can step back and go. Okay, I could approach it from this angle or I could approach it from a different angle. But in order to be able to have that objectivity, you really do need to be able to stand back and really listen to what people are saying. So I do believe that I was a very good listener from a young age, and whether that was taught or born I don't know, but I love listening to people speak and I think the part that you're talking about is not having something prepared and being able to just come up on the spot.
Speaker 2:I believe that that ability is from being a good listener, because if you listen hard enough to someone's point of view or we called it an argument, right, because it was a debate but really it's like you and I talking. Now it's their point of view it's being able to be, I believe, empathetic. So where are they coming from? Why are they thinking of it? Like? Why are they coming from that angle? What's behind their argument? You know what's their background in them saying that to begin with and that's what I think makes a fantastic communicator whether it's a third speaker or in life Because if you can be, if you can listen to someone and put yourself in their shoes and have a slight understanding of what has influenced them to think like that, then you can really get inside their minds and think, okay, I know what.
Speaker 2:I know they're coming from that angle, because I know the topic. Because we were given a topic, right, right, and it was clearly stated this team is the affirmative for that topic and this team is the negative. So, because we had a lot of time to prepare for that, we actually remember we researched the affirmative and we researched the negative, regardless of which side which argument we were. So if we were the negative team, which argument we were. So if we were the negative team, we also researched the positive side of the argument. So we had a very good understanding of the arguments that they could come up with and nine times out of 10, they did come up with one of the arguments that we thought I bet you they say this.
Speaker 1:So I was in fact prepared, but I was prepared through research, through the ability to listen and through empathy but I, you know, I think I'm a good listener too, but I but I take several days to process what people say and like I really roll that stuff around in my mind for quite some time. And then I feel, once I really feel like I understand a position. I can then, you know, formulate my, my comeback, which can take days, weeks. And you used to do it on the night. And I distinctly remember, um once, and you may well remember it too, that on the, the day of our, of our debating final, had our final practice at school at lunchtime, and then we went home from school as per usual in preparation for the evening.
Speaker 1:Now, I remember coming home from school, taking off my jacket, throwing it in the wash, and then, just before I was ready to go to the debate, I went to find my palm cards and of course they'd gone through the wash and all those words were gone. And it wasn't like the days where we now have everything on computer and backup. It was all handwritten. And so my palm cards, which were the only copy of my words, they were completely destroyed, and I remember the terror that struck me then within, like you know, this was an hour before we were meant to. It was showtime of not having my words and only having, you know, some memory of them. But that was, you know, depleted because of my terror.
Speaker 1:And I remember thinking, oh my God, this is what Leanne does every time. How does she do it? How does she white knuckle it? How does she go in there with no words written down? I guess I'm reliant on the words themselves being, you know, my tool, my key, my power source, and without them I was completely lost and I was in awe of you.
Speaker 1:Then I understood more than ever what it took to go along to those sort of things largely unprepared, without the words written down, and to know that the words were going to come to you, to have the confidence that something would come to you and you would be able to articulate it well, and also that pressure of being the last speaker, because you know that's that's the impact is is made through those final words, that's that's the last impression the audience gets. So, yeah, I just think um a lot of what you honed in doing that, in feeling the fear, um knowing that you could um actively listen and respond well in the moment, and do it all in a compelling way and leave everyone in no doubt that we, the affirmative or negative, whether, whether we're right, um is something that probably those skills, because we did it for a number of years, I think they would still hold you in good stead today do you think oh, 100, like when you just when you just um talked then about um leaving no doubt in in the.
Speaker 2:You know that because we were not just, we were uh being judged.
Speaker 2:So we were mainly trying to convince the judges right, um, that, that um, because they're the ones who's who uh made the decision at the end of the day. And what sparked, what you just sparked in me then, was the ability to be able to convince someone that what you're saying is the stronger argument and the only way to do that as far as I'm concerned, really honestly, you can have the best words in the world with the most well-researched thought-out argument, okay, but without the emotion that goes with that, then the words lose their power. So if you are fully, fully invested in what you're saying and you truly believe it and you allow that emotion to come out in your voice, in your tone, in your pace of the way that you speak like faster, slower, louder, quieter and also the ability to ask questions, so not only do you say this is what we think as a team, you also ask some questions that get people thinking. So the ability to be able to pair the emotion with the words is in that instance and even now, what makes people really think, wow, this lady, this team, you know, but this speaker is so passionate about what she's saying that she must be right. And all of that, honestly, that comes from your heart. That doesn't come from your head.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and I think in what you're doing these days, it's the passion that people pick up on. That's the element there that they can read all of the how-to stuff. Almost everything these days is online, every how-to but what isn't online, what just comes organically from a person in the moment, is that passion and that's what people need and want to help them achieve their goals. Now, just going back a minute, you mentioned about being, you know, we are debating in front of largely yes, we are for the audience, but mainly we are wanting to be chosen by the judges to win. So that brings back another memory by the judges to win. So that brings back another memory, which I think there is a lesson in it and maybe you can explain the lesson after.
Speaker 1:I detail the memory, but I think we were a good debating team and we, you know, honed our practice over several years and I just remember that I think in our final year we were up against a team from St Pat's School, very, very good team. It was going to be, you know, a grand final for the ages and I just remember we were so prepared and we were really in form and I thought that we kicked it out of the park that night, like I really, really, you know, when you just know, you know there's no doubt in your mind like my god, we've, we've totally nailed this, we've totally won. And I think, um, and I remember looking out to the audience and think, and knowing from their responses that we totally won as well, you know, it was a really good feeling to, to just have no doubt in your mind that, yeah, we've, we've deservedly won this. And then the, the main judge, got up and, um, look, I don't want to use any names, but kent lyons um, um, yeah, what an asshole anyway. He, um, got up and said that, for reasons I still find difficult to understand, that he was, on this occasion, going to award the grand final to the other team, hashtag. What the? Now, no one in that audience agreed, even I don't think the opposition agreed with that.
Speaker 1:But it was just one of those inexplicable things where I, I just remember feeling a great injustice had occurred and I was at a young. I was at an age too where I didn't have probably the emotional maturity to process that. I just felt wronged, and I remember you did too. But I, but I look back and I know you and I've talked about this and I know you don't feel anywhere near as robbed or as passionate about the injustice.
Speaker 2:I actually forgotten about that until you mentioned it, but that's okay but that's, that's the lesson, isn't it like?
Speaker 1:but that's you know. That's the bit I think that you accepted in life earlier than I did, which is that sometimes things do happen, you know, that are perhaps unfair, unexpected, not entirely justified, but how you handle those decisions makes the difference in how you evolve as a person. So the fact that that doesn't eat away at you at night, well, there you go. You're just a better look I may have. But seriously, what?
Speaker 2:I may have lost five minutes sleep over that, maybe, but the lesson that when you, when you say it, that you're so elegant with your words, which is why I was so excited to have you on as my guest.
Speaker 2:After that, I just tuned that out. I'm very good at being selective with my hearing. This is why I say I'm a good listener, because I only listen to what I want to hear. Right, yes, but when I, when I think of those situations, I straightaway okay. So I think back to being a very young child and I believe that my ability to see injustice or, you know, experience it where you know that's not fair, okay. When things where you think aren't fair occur, I'm a firm believer. It's not what happens, it's how you react to it. Okay. So, as as soon as something like that happens and it happens still daily, it happens all the time, still now, for example, I've seen, um, yeah, in so many situations I think, okay, so right now, that is not happening for me, it's not, it's not for me, but what am I learning from that? That is actually going to make me a better speaker, a more resilient person, and it's going to light the fire inside me to continue along that path so that I can win in the future. So, but going back to being a young child, I believe my ability to do that was because when I was very young, from the time that I can remember, like most of us, remember what, from four or five years old on, a lot of the situations I was in as a child were unfair situations that I had no control over, because I was four and five and six and there were a lot of people in my life at that time who were very unfair to me in different ways and I actually thought this is the way life was. It was like so that person did that to me, this happened to me, but you know, it must be the way everyone lives their lives and you just get on with life. It happens and you go. Okay, that happened, but I will now, you know, get on with my life. You know I won't let that get me down, you know. So I think it was.
Speaker 2:I honestly believe it was born from very young, having a lot of uh situations that that, like I said, I had no control over. Yet I didn't let that make me a victim of life. So, you know, when we get an unfair decision in the debating, I think, ah well, next time that's my favorite thing to say. Next time even, let's go straight to where I am now uh, uh, with weightlifting, for example, right, so I'll miss a lift and it might be a lifter that I really, really wanted, let's say, 70 kilos snatch.
Speaker 2:I miss a lift and I had this conversation yesterday with one of my friends and lifters, someone that I coach, but she's also a very good friend and as soon as I miss that lift, even before the barbell hits the ground, I start to laugh because I think, ah, I tried my best and there will be another opportunity to redeem myself or get that. So I guess that's what I thought in that situation. When we lost the grand final, I thought, oh well, that's lost, but there's going to be another opportunity where I get to prove that I can win.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's exactly right. Well, I've just learned a lot from you, right then? I think I'm going to look back on Kent Lyons a little differently from now on. I'm going to let that one go. I'm going to let that. I'm going to put that rock down.
Speaker 2:You know, kent Lyons was actually doing us a favour, because have a look at us now. Have a look you like. If you were a victim in that situation, that could have been the sort of thing that that would stop people from ever having a voice, a public voice again. Like there's no way, like they're, like oh, I'm in the debating team. That could have been their first experience of speaking in front of an audience and, in their mind, if they thought of themselves as a failure because they lost, because they're only focusing on the outcome not, they're not focusing on all the fantastic things that they'd learned along the way that have made them into a better person, but they just thought I'm a loser, so that's it. I'm never speaking in front of an audience again. I'm never putting myself in front of an audience again. But that obviously is not what you thought, because look where you are now. You've written three books. You've put yourself in the limelight in front of an audience for the rest of your life, so that was a great learning opportunity. And even me.
Speaker 2:I moved on to become a coach, which is who has an audience a physical coach of physical activity, and then also a mindset coach and now a podcast host. I mean, who would have? I never it took. The podcast host is on a different level again and it would be the same level that you're at, because you, we are now saying things that are going to be trapped in time forever.
Speaker 2:You know that, debating that particular debate, that we're talking about the grand final, we lost that and guess what? It's not recorded anywhere. It's recorded in our heads but nobody can go back and go. Oh, let's watch Carrie and Leanne lose. But what we're doing every day now is we're putting our voices out there in front of audiences that can always be replayed. In 10 years time people can come back and listen to this very episode and all the mis jeez I probably shouldn't, I probably shouldn't have mentioned kent lyons, then well no but all these little mistakes that we might make and blah, blah, blah it's, it's going to be there forever, but Kent Lyons didn't stop that for us.
Speaker 1:So we both thought that was an empowering moment that's the way I look at it, I guess, so that, yeah, you're completely, completely right. Um, from debating I'm going to move on to um, another activity that we did together and this one was for even more years and more intensively, because it was usually four or five times a week um, and that was gymnastics. So we did that from primary school right through to high school and it was all consuming at times because, I don't know, I think gymnastics was never kind of that sport that you there are a lot of sports that you can sort of approach either recreationally or competitively, and I just don't feel like gymnastics was ever that recreational unfortunately it was always about moving.
Speaker 1:No, it was always about, you know, looking at the next level test or the next competition or the next event, or you know it was it's it's very competitive by nature, which is a shame, because I think that a lot of kids would love gymnastics if and maybe it's less competitive these days, I don't know. I just remember it feeling very competitive um, and not overly recreational, so you and I used to make our own fun um, but you look back on some, some aspects of um gymnastics and it's batshit crazy how dangerous it was, and you know when you think of how.
Speaker 2:Oh look, you know we the split leaps on the 10 centimeter beam the split leaps on the 10 centimeter beam and I don't know if you did it, but I know I certainly did the front foot missed. So think of leaping through the air and landing on your front foot. For those of you that have never had the pleasure of doing gymnastics. We have a 10-centimetre beam, the front foot misses and you know what catches you on the way down in your crotch the 10-centimetre beam In your crotch, I mean.
Speaker 1:I don't know. I just think we just spent years bruised and we had calluses all over our hands from the bars. I remember once, because we were in that old hall, I remember doing a vault and jumping into a spinning fan and cutting my arm. It was nuts how dangerous it is in light of how we are so much more protective of children's safety these days and I just don't think any of that stuff would have passed occupational health and safety. But a lot of moves in gymnastics in those days felt like the only way to learn this complicated move was to just do it and hopefully survive.
Speaker 2:And not fall on your head.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so it was, I don't know. I look back on it and it was just a pretty crazily dangerous way to spend five afternoons a week.
Speaker 2:It was. It was crazily dangerous. But in saying that there was a lot of now, listen, I got this saying from your mom because she had a book. Do you remember? She loved the book? Feel the fear and do it anyway. And do it anyway. Yes, she did, and she was constantly saying that to me. Leanne, feel the fear and do it anyway. I remember. It's burned into my memory. So, when it comes to the gymnastic skills which are crazy, like you know, like route, you know the round off, do you? I'm sure you were there the day that that one of our fellow gymnasts did a round off, back flip, back salt. She got into the air for the back salt, did a half a turn and came down on her head. Were you there that day? Oh god I don't think so.
Speaker 2:I can picture it it only takes that split second of being in the wrong place at the wrong time and we're talking like life-threatening neck injuries, right, yeah, yeah. So as far as being protective of, actually, I want to go back Before I talk about being protective of our children. Now I want to go back to the fact that you said you know it was very competitive, and I've got a question for you Do you think the sport of gymnastics is competitive or do you think that we are competitive by nature? Did we make that competitive.
Speaker 1:Well, I think it's a little bit from column A and a little bit from column B. When it comes to gymnastics, I do think that you and I are inherently competitive. I do accept that, and so maybe also there is an argument to be made that we gravitate to competitive things like debating, like gymnastics. You know what I mean. But the difference I between you and me, is that I, especially when it came to competitions with other clubs and level tests, that's when I really struggled, because that's when the pressure was on and I felt the fear most intensely and I didn't always have the skills to manage that, whereas I think you thrived better in competitive in those competitions because you were instinctively better at managing the fear and also you are better at accepting the possibility of failure, and that's exactly what it comes down to, because let's just ask ourselves the questions besides the obvious of falling on your head and breaking your neck or rolling an ankle or, god forbid, getting so nervous that you pee on the beam.
Speaker 1:Yes, uh that may or may not have happened?
Speaker 2:it definitely happened. So there's a thing on the beam more than one. Yeah, there's a thing on the beam. For those of you that that don't know, it's called a's a thing on the beam More than one. Yeah, there's a thing on the beam. For those of you that don't know, it's called a mount. So you mount the beam.
Speaker 2:It's fantastic, isn't it the terminology? You mount the beam, which means you get on it somehow and you dismount the beam, and that does not mean just fall off. It means you actually have to do a move to get off the beam elegantly. Move to get off the beam elegantly. Okay, now, now, carrie, I'm not sure if I did that at the time, but I just do clearly remember carrie had a fantastic mount on the beam. It was called a tuck on, wasn't it a tuck on? So you put the board next to the beam and you put your hands on the beam and you jump up into a squat on the beam. Carrie went one more step further in in making that such an elegant mount, because when she stood up, not only did she do the mount successfully and didn't fall off, but there seemed to be a slight little puddle on the beam. And how much more elegant can you get?
Speaker 1:Oh God, a lot of bladder control.
Speaker 2:those were the days and you can't hide anything in those bloody leotards 100 not and the funny thing is I have to put this in here right now. You said before gymnastics was uh, like calluses on your hands, bruises everywhere from the bar, and you, you can't hide anything when you pee in a leotard. And I obviously did not learn my lesson from those days, because now I weightlift Guess what? I have calluses on my hands. I have bruises on my body.
Speaker 2:I have chalk I still use chalk, which we used in gymnastics as well. I have chalk all over me all the time, constantly. I go shopping, I train and then I just run off shopping. I'll look down at my hands and I'll be all white because I haven't washed my hands from the chalk. And can I say that I still wear the same type of leotard, except the only difference is it has a leg in it. So when you pee in those as well, yep, it's there for everyone to see. Hence why I have black bottoms, because I have been known on quite a few occasions to pee in my weightlifting suit. So I clearly didn't learn much from the gymnastics days you've carried a lot of gymnastics forward into your career.
Speaker 1:You really have. I think the only thing that I've carried um forward from gymnastics is that I can still do the splits when I'm drunk 100%.
Speaker 2:The amount of photos I have and experiences I have of Carrie and I as adults doing the splits Like that is the moment when you know you've still got it right. Can you still do the splits?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yep, yeah, the muscle memory. The muscle memory kicks in, I mean like it obviously then hurts for days.
Speaker 2:Torn hamstring, but it doesn't matter. We still can do the splits right. Worth it for the spectacle that's right.
Speaker 1:Also, can I just matter, we still can do the splits right. Worth it for the spectacle.
Speaker 2:That's right also can I just say it's not just the splits, I think her handstands have come into many nightclub drunken moments as well. Um, the one that's clearly burnt into my brain was I went out with my eldest daughter for her, for her hen's night, and we went to um one of the nightclubs in brisbane, in the valley, and I had a wonder woman suit on because we were all characters disney characters, uh, or super superheroes or something. So anyway, I was dressed up as a wonder woman and I not only did I do a handstand in the nightclub, I I stopped the room and I said to everyone everybody, watch this. So I kicked up into a handstand, which was fine, and my skirt flew up, but I had a Wonder Woman little bummers Remember the word bummers?
Speaker 1:Underneath yeah.
Speaker 2:So I did the handstand. That was not a problem. But because I now was a crossfitter, slash weightlifter and I thought I was really strong, a handstand was no longer good enough to show that I still had it. I had to do a handstand push-up. So I did a handstand on the wall and I went down to be able to come back up on the push-up. But I went down and I stayed down. I just flopped and I took out about three people around me. This is after I'd yelled out everybody. Watch this Watch.
Speaker 1:Well, I do hope someone filmed that and it lives somewhere on YouTube, because I want to.
Speaker 2:I do have a handstand, a photo, but I don't have a video, thank the Lord.
Speaker 1:Oh well, that you know of. Now, speaking of gymnastics, still, I just want to ask you a question, because gymnastics necessarily involves um continue like being coached all the time. You know, you literally are um supervised and coached um every session, and there's a spectrum of good coaching and through to bad coaching. But you know, as a young person, you don't necessarily know enough about the nature of of coaching and to to be able to clearly identify what it is that brings out the best in you and what doesn't work um, but when you look back on that and, as I say, say, when we look back and that and those, those history lessons are still live if we want to look at them. What have you learned about coaching? What do you bring to coaching today that you either learned from or did or actively avoided because of what you experienced when you were younger?
Speaker 2:Hmm, Okay, well, I think back to and I'm going to use names here, because I believe that the lady that coached us deserves her name to be used, because she was so dedicated to the sport for so many years and coached so many people, and her name was Karen Dutton.
Speaker 2:So, she obviously was one of our main coaches at the time. We did have quite a few others we had. We had a man called don power and do. I don't know if you remember, but he was the vault specialist. I'm not sure if he was responsible for you chopping your arm in the fan, uh, but that's not really. That's just a bit of a safety concern. He obviously didn't read the safety manual first, um, but I look back at those.
Speaker 2:Those two coaches stick out in my mind. There were a couple of young, younger coaches that we had, um, who were gymnasts themselves. So, and in saying that and we're talking about coaching and what I take, what I hold dear and value right now is this that those younger coaches that we had, um, because we could relate to them, because they were only what? A couple of years older than us at the time, yeah, because we knew that they could do the skills that they were coaching us and so we could relate to them. We oh well, you know how this feels because you are doing this yourself. That, to me, is a very powerful way to coach someone. If you have, you don't have to be great at it, but have you experienced yourself what you're coaching that person to do, that person to do, and that in itself is a very powerful coaching tool that I pride myself on, because I like to experience whatever I'm coaching that person in first, and that's not just in the physical. So, like gymnastics, obviously, is what I've coached for the longest. I started coaching when I was uh, 14 and I'm still coaching gymnastics now. Um so, you know, uh, that's one sort of area where I can coach someone and I can say, well, I can still just kick up to a handstand and all the kids are like, wow, you know, they think that's amazing. But I can relate to the person that I'm coaching because I've done that skill and that's in all the physical skills. When I started weightlifting, I went and learned how to do the snatch and the clean and jerk first and I got a little bit of experience in doing that myself before I started coaching other people in how to do that.
Speaker 2:Because here's the thing with coaching If you can tap into someone's how to now think. Actually, let's think back. Do you remember Trevor Dowdle? Trevor and Peter Dowdle they were the biomechanical technicians from hell. They could get a book and explain every single little gymnastics, move all the biomechanics from woe to go in those big scientific what I call scientific terms and they would like they would wow people with their technical knowledge. Yet here's the thing they were not. They were. They could not relate to the person, because we're not teaching robots, we're teaching people.
Speaker 2:So if you have that knowledge of the movement but you compare that with how does that feel and how does it feel when you fail that skill? Look, I know you've been trying to learn this backflip for six months. If you just persist and keep putting in the reps, you know what? Where you're lacking is your leg push. So let's do some more. Let's do some more. Take off um drills and I know it's frustrating because I've been there too. That's, that's the power that I take away from some of the coaches that we had, those younger ones, because we could relate to them. It's like walk the walk, talk the talk right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. But what I think you know gymnastics back then and perhaps a lot of sports back then lacked was the awareness that we have now about the importance of mindset. So much of the coaching was about nailing the moves. It was about the physical preparation. It was about pointing your toes. It was about nailing the moves. It was about the physical preparation, it was about pointing your toes. It was about the aesthetic, it was about conditioning. But I think I would have handled the pressure of competition, the pressure of the potential for failure. I think that a lot of that would have been easier to manage as a young person if the sport had had the awareness of the importance of psychology and mindset that I think we have a better understanding of today. I think a lot of you know sports and activities today have a better awareness of the importance of looking out for the person and not just the, the body, that that it's housed in um what would you agree?
Speaker 2:well, you've just hit the nail on the head in in my many years of competing as as an athlete. So, gymnastics, touch football, weightlifting and powerlifting the missing piece is 100% the fact that I said before. You're dealing with a person and a person has emotions. So if you can get that person to understand the emotion in the sport, behind the movement, behind the competition, what, yes, you are, you are you called it nervous before you are nervous and where is that nervousness coming from? You need to get you get to an understanding of the nervousness is nearly.
Speaker 2:From my experience now as a mindset coach, and I've really gone into the performance mindset. That's what really drew me to mindset to begin with, because here is my situation I had done 10 years of weightlifting. Okay, I had broken more than I don't even know eight world records, you know, won so many world championships in the sport, of both sports of powerlifting and Olympic weightlifting and I got to a point where I could break a world record and just go oh yeah, I broke a world record and I wasn't excited about that anymore, and so that is what drove me to to work out what. Where is this coming from? Like, what's going on with my mindset. You know why have I lost the enjoyment of what other people would give their left arm to even break a national record, let alone a world record, and I would go into a world championship and I'd break a world record and I'd go, yeah, I'll break the world record, but I would get no joy from that anymore. And that was because, you know, I thought, well, okay, so mindset, I need to find a mindset coach. So I went and found a coach. His name was chase tollison absolutely fantastic. And when I went into, when I went into that with him, um, I I saw the power in understanding the relationship between the mind and the body and how the mind is just as important as the body in performing and allowing the person to not only perform well but enjoy the experience. And that's what I had lost. I had lost the enjoyment of competition because all I was doing was ticking the box and I wasn't like stepping back and enjoying the moment, because my mind was all about the outcome and not about the process.
Speaker 2:So, looking back to our gymnastics days, there was no mindset training. There was okay, we're going to do our routines 50 times, we're going to nail them, then we're going to go to competition. And here's something I've learned you can nail a million routines in training. Competition performance is a totally different ball game. To practice performance and you need to practice competition performance.
Speaker 2:So what I'm saying there is what they could have done at the time and what our coaches could have done if they'd been aware of the power of the mind in its ability to the mind, linking to the emotions, which then emotions also influence your performance. Okay, so it's all interlinked. What they could have done would have been for us to walk into the gym and they could have said guess what, girls, we're doing a competition today. So we were put under pressure on the spot, just like we would have been in a competition. Then we get to practice the skills that we need to be under pressure and perform our skills at the same time at a high level. But that was never done for us, right? We're just trained and trained and trained.
Speaker 1:And then we went to the competition with no mindset preparation speaking of preparation, I just want to share a quick memory of um, another gymnastics memory. That, um, I will never forget. I don't know if you remember it as vividly as I do, but this speaks to preparation. Now, a key moment in any young girl's life is when she gets her first period. Okay, yes, yes, this is not something I was prepared for. I had not been told about this. Somehow that lesson just didn't happen, okay, and so I remember going to gymnastics one afternoon and, as usual, you and I got ready in the toilets, you know, got out of our school uniform to put on our leotard, were in the the cubicle beside me and I've I've noticed something terrible has happened to me. Um, I've no idea what it is. I have no context, nothing. I'm dying.
Speaker 2:It's clear that I'm dying because that's what it always is. It's clear. Everything that happens is clearly you're dying continue.
Speaker 1:Yes, it was well. I mean, how else to explain all this blood? And so I've gone oh my god, or something, you know, I've yelled out something and you've gone what, what's wrong? And I've explained what I'm looking at and you've gone look, I know what this is, I got this, I'll be over in a minute. And you've come next door to the cubicle, you've explained to me that this thing, what this thing is, and you've got me sorted right, and which I will never forget, because you literally talked me down off a ledge and made me realize that I wasn't actually dying, although you know um close, um. Anyway, I can remember I'll always be grateful for that for you, for you just always being that level head. Um, when I was having some sort of histrionic episode, you did that so many times. You were literally talking me off a ledge all the time. I couldn't.
Speaker 2:And I remember going. Sorry, I just want to say one thing. That's not good etiquette, but I need to throw this in right now. I could not talk you off the bottom of the canoe and that story will come up later.
Speaker 1:Continue um, but you always tried, you always did try to talk me off whatever catastrophic ledge I was on. And I remember then, um, mrs Dutton organized for me to go straight home and in that and in the intervening period, um, so I didn't do gymnastics that afternoon. I got a lift home and I remember by that time Mrs Dutton had told my mum what had happened and I walked into the kitchen and mum gave me a hug and she said, oh, I'm so sorry that we hadn't discussed this. And I said that's okay. And she said next time we'll be prepared. I said, does this happen twice? She's like well, actually. And then she explained the monthly nature of this thing and I was ready to tap out Nope, not doing it. See, you live, oh Lord.
Speaker 1:Now another thing you talked about before. That reminded me of something you talked about the importance of enjoying what you're doing. How from how? For a period there you'd lost that enjoyment and then you had to identify why. Um, I really think that the other activity that shaped our high school years that we did together was touch footy, and when I look back on touch footy and what that gave us, compared to disciplines like debating and gymnastics and also our athletics was just joy. I just think that we couldn't wait to get to touch footy. We couldn't wait to be for every game. There was a real joy to that and it was nice to have that as part of the landscape of our childhood. I don't know if you look back on it with as much joy, but I just thought that was fun look, obviously I it.
Speaker 2:it ignited a joy in me because I continued to play touch football for many years after that and, uh, the thing is the thing that I remember the most about touch football and I treasure because, like now, I I'm, as you know, I'm still doing weightlifting, which is an individual sport, the same as gymnastics, okay, and to a degree, debating was as well. Even though we prepared as a team, we still only ever performed one person at a time. Okay, so you were, it was you and you in that one moment. And that's what gymnastics is it's you and you. And then in weightlifting is it's you and you, and then in weightlifting, it's you and you. That's it right.
Speaker 2:But here's the thing with touch football, it was a true team, it was. You can't score the try unless you work as a team. So therefore, what I really love about that sport in particular was the fact that you could blame someone else, right, if something happened. You'd be like it's their fault, they didn't pass me the ball. But not really it was the fact that it was the first time I'd ever been in a sport or in anywhere, where you're performing, where you got to work with other people and share the pressure, and that's that's the key thing right there.
Speaker 2:Instead of all the pressure being on you, the pressure was divvied out amongst seven people on the field and shared losses, like when you know you drop the ball, it was the whole team was like oh, you know, you feel feel bad for your.
Speaker 2:You know, your team member, you didn you drop the ball. It was the whole team was like oh, you know, you feel bad for your. You know, your team member, you didn't win, it was a team loss, it wasn't an individual loss. So a lot of that pressure of performance was shared with other people and that's a very empowering way to perform in any way, and that's one of the reasons why I absolutely love creating the communities that I've created over the last 10 years, because, even though I'm doing a sport that is individual and the sport that I'm teaching, I'm very now much focused on creating that bigger, larger community where, you know, we have conversations and we train together as a team, and that's you know, because I still don't play a team sport, but I turn my individual sports into a team event, team approach yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:I wish you know, I wish I'd done team sports earlier or as a younger child.
Speaker 1:That was the first team sport I'd ever done was touch footy, and consequently, I have actively encouraged my kids from a very young age to be involved in team sport. They've all done basketball and footy, basketball and and footy and um, I just think that from a very early age to, to experience the, the joy of of being in a team and being part of something bigger than you, um, it's something that, um, you should experience at the earliest age. I just think that, um, because there's a joy to that, and also there's that um that you know the shared, the shared preparation, the shared pressure, and then some, you know the shared triumph, the shared um losses, but it's all shared, and, and I think everything in life is is easier when you're not carrying all of that on your own back. And so you're right, you can, you know, do an individual sport or pastime, but involve yourself in a community and create a team approach, and then you somehow just take a lot of the pressure off the whole experience and inject more joy.
Speaker 2:Because, you know, this actually reminds me of another conversation we had, uh, and that was we had a conversation about uh when we were younger. Um, as young mothers well, especially me I isolated myself a lot, like I had because I had four children under the age of five. I thought no one's gonna want to hang out with me because this is a circus, you know. You've got to no, seriously. You've got a four-year-old Jess, who was you know, she is the next Sarah Bernhardt. She is the drama queen and fantastic up-and-coming actress. She introduces this podcast for the audience. That's my daughter, Jess. So we had four-year-old Jess and then we had twins who were two and a half and then we had like a one-year-old, a one-year-old baby. So I thought there's no one that would want to be part of this. So I deliberately like hid in my house in the bush, right At Brandy Creek, Because it was a shed in the bush which is now my gym, and I just got stuck in that routine of, you know, feeding time, sleep time, nap time, you know, and it was just so regimented and I locked myself away for many years and didn't take the time to connect with other people who were in that situation, other mothers, I just thought no, I can do this on my own. It was almost like I was in my own team sport and it was called mothering. But because I had so many children, that went on for a very long period of time. And then, as the kids got older and I had the opportunity to venture out of the bush, the shed in the bush, I realized that I'd lost the ability of I've not lost the ability, I'd always got that ability but I'd lost the connection with other people. And then, as I started connecting with other people and I did it as I did it as funny thing is, I did it as a coach. So as soon as I had the opportunity, or a teacher as well, like a school teacher and a coach, but I, I, I reestablished the connection with other people who have things in common with me.
Speaker 2:And then, after a few years of doing that, I got the courage to to have a girl's weekend. I'm like what a girl's weekend that I always, you know, boohooed that stuff. And now I really do understand the power of connection and the shared I don't want to say the shared suffering, let's say the shared wins. I like to focus on the wins these days. But you know, I understand that that connect, that the value of that connection and having that just sharing life with people, and I'm I'm just so happy that every day I get to do that now in my weightlifting community, in my online community, even just my friendships. I just did a girls' weekend four-day trip. I took my mum, my daughter Jess, who's now 19, one of my best friends and lifters who I coached, Sue, and we did a four-day trip of North Queensland together and you know, it's just a fantastic thing to be able to share experiences in life. Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Do you know what? I'm just remembering something too, speaking about those years with all the little ones. I remember I was living in Brisbane and you rang me to say we both had three kids at that point, which is a lot.
Speaker 2:It's enough, right, yeah, but why didn't I learn from that and stop right there?
Speaker 1:I remember you ringing me and saying oh my God, I'm pregnant, I can't do four Four's too many. Pregnant, I can't do four Four's too many. And this time, you know, the switch was flipped and I was the one talking you down off the ledge. I was working for Practical Parenting magazine by that time and very immersed in the world of parenting. And I said to you quite genuinely you know, leanne, if anyone can manage this, it's you. I mean, you are one of the most capable people I know. And let's look at this. You know even numbers. Four kids is, you know, it's neater, it's neater than three, you know. And I just was presenting all of these positive things and reminding you just how capable you were.
Speaker 1:And then fast forward a few months and you ring me again and you said it's twins. And I'm like, oh, that's fantastic. Oh my gosh, these days, multiple birth associations are wonderful things. They're just full of people in the same boat with lots of resources. And this is actually great, leanne, this is great. You're going to have five and a set of twins. How exciting. And so, once again, you know, I've tried to frame it in a positive way for you, just so that you could cope with the reality of it all um. And then I remember fast forward another I don't know how many months it was after the twins were born, and you said I'm pregnant again. And I said you're fucked. I got nothing. I didn't have any more. I didn't have any more pep talks in me.
Speaker 2:You know what I think you're, so I really admire you for saying trying to bring out the positive in those twins, because I love my twins right now. If you're listening, and I know you will be Georgia and Cooper I know you listen to me because you love the sound of my voice and I know you will be Georgia and Cooper. I know you listen to me because you love the sound of my voice. However, I'm still trying to pick the positives of the first six months of that time the twins.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was listening to an interview with a woman, the mother of triplets, yesterday, and she just said that, because the interviewer said what was, what was the hardest part, what was the bit? You just did not expect? And she said I just didn't expect how long it would take to feed them. It would. It just seemed like by the time I fed, you know, the first one, then the second one, then the third one, it was back to the first one again. Like I just felt like I spent six to nine months sitting on the couch feeding constantly, um and I, and, and which is just so exhausting, um, but you know and I joke about the fact that, you know when you told me about the sixth one, I was like I got nothing, but you, you know, you just took it all in your stride and I never doubted that you would.
Speaker 1:Um, and I know you said you isolated yourself for a period, but you came out of that. Chrysalis and you, um, and all of your six children, um, you know, are thriving and um, you know, I just think that Mother's Day has just been on the weekend and I really hope that, um, you know, I take my hat off to mums like you, um, you're just incredible. And they all benefit from the fact that you do believe, you know you, you my hat off to mums. Like you, um, you're just incredible. And they all benefit from the fact that you do believe, you know you. You do believe in the power of a positive mindset, and you parent that way too well, um, I think I think with the.
Speaker 2:You know, people make jokes all the time about the six children. You didn't have tvs and all that sort of thing. That's their favourite joke. You know, didn't you own a TV? In fact, we've got four TVs in this house.
Speaker 2:So, for those of you out there that think that TV is like a contraceptive, think again, because that certainly doesn't help. But just being in the, if you think about it, people say to Steve and I all the time, how did you do that? And Steve's response is this who else is going to do it? Right, you're in that position and you have to do it because no one else is going to do that for you. So that comes down back to, like my pillar, my value of persisting, being persistent right, you just day in, day out, putting in the reps and believing that all of your hard work will, you know, culminate into a very rewarding experience. So, you know, the kids the whole six of the kids are extremely resilient and I do believe one of the reasons this is extremely resilient is because there were six of them. Because you think about it, these days people have kids a lot older than, like, our first children were very young. In fact, your daughter Emily's lucky to, you know, be such a smart, intelligent young lady because my son Matthew, when we were babysitting your daughter Emily, you remember we used to look after her when she was a baby and Matthew thought this is fantastic, I've got a. I think she was six months, was she? She was definitely six months, around that age. And then Matthew thought I've got a real life doll to play with and my son Matthew would have been about four and we had those little bouncing nets and he was like bouncing Emily and he bounced her so hard that she flew out onto the ground and you know like so. But this is going back to kids being resilient. Yes, absolutely Back when we brought our kids up.
Speaker 2:They were exposed and you were talking about when we were gymnasts. We didn't get any mindset training. No, you just get in that competition and you just do it because we're telling you to right your only preparation. Your preparation is your training. We're not going to discuss what's going on in your emotions or your minds, just toughen up. And so that resilience comes also, I believe, from the era that we were brought up in and that we brought our children up in, and and I was talking to my daughter, jess, yesterday and she is talking about her children and she said you know what? I just want to bring my children up, how you brought me up. But if you had asked Jess when we were bringing her up, you know, did you enjoy. You know how we brought you up. Are you enjoying how we're bringing you up Like she would have been? No, you're so mean, right?
Speaker 1:So I do believe that it's a generational thing, and I think too, though, to be fair, I think that we all and maybe it's a coping mechanism in life but we romanticise things historically, like, I think we romanticise the fact that we were the generation that you know, school of hard knocks and, um, you know, we're resilient because we just we weren't molly, molly coddled and there was no helicopter parenting and no one really paid much attention to you. You just raised yourself in the back of the car, um, but you know what? That is true, and, yes, that does equal resilience, but there was a lot of neglect there too. Absolutely not to be romanticized.
Speaker 1:I mean, that's just some of that stuff is the reason that, um, you and I another thing that we really shared in common in our childhood that I remember very vividly was was the fact that we were terrified 90% of the time. We were always scared of danger, the dark, you know, murderers, rapists. We were, I don't know, we were just I think we for different reasons, I mean different individual reasons, but we were hardwired to be on high alert for danger and to always believe that it was imminent and present, and the safest I ever felt was when I was with you.
Speaker 2:And you know, it's very interesting that you say that, because when I say that our children are resilient, we built resilience out of the need to do it like because we didn't have any other options. We didn't have people explaining to us, like you didn't even know that you were going to get your period right. Yeah, so the information was not there. The time was not spent in in um, educating people on you know what's on their emotions and their minds, like it is now, and I have the privilege of being able to do that with my children now. So if my, if one of my kids says I'm scared of something, then I have the ability to go into that and say, like, where are you feeling that? What does that remind you of um? You know how did how? How are you feeling that? You know where did that come from? And break it down so that they can um see that that is a, a thought, it's a story in their heads, built from their reaction to something that obviously happened to them at a different time. Right, that's a story that they've built up, but our stories were just left unchecked because our parents never had those conversations with us. They didn't have those conversations with us because that was the way they were brought up, so they were just repeating those patterns. But that fear was basically that honestly the fear, and that's why, at the start of this podcast, I talked to you. I laughed about your mom saying feel the fear and do it anyway. The reason she was saying that to me was because I was so fearful of what we look back now as what we we look at, recognise now as irrational stuff. You know, we honestly thought someone was going to come through the window and kidnap us and kill us. Okay, we really did believe that and it was because of something that we'd experienced, reacted to with fear and then continued that pattern with every time we were in an unsafe situation.
Speaker 2:And here's the thing, carrie, we were in unsafe situations. We actually were in physically unsafe situations. Do you remember walking home from touch football at 9, 30 at night, how many kilometers, at least in the dark, five at uh, at what would have been a 20-minute walk or half an hour walk, at least In the dark, at 9.30 at night, no one even knew where we were. Our parents didn't know where we were. So we just walked home because we had no other way of getting home because we had no one to pick us up. I'm not saying our parents were totally neglectful, but those were just that. Parents just thought you know we're tough. But we were actually feeling unsafe and that was the root of our fear because we were. Some of our basic needs weren't being met.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's exactly right. We were often in situations we would never put our kids in today, and it was a pre-mobile phone era too. You know. You couldn't just sort of you know, text your mum and say, you know, here I am, it was just different. It was just, you know, everything was different. But I think that you know why I bonded with you initially and why it was such a, you know, an immediate connection, like I just knew this was my person. Um was because we, I finally met someone who was as scared as I was and who could articulate that. And not only did we articulate it, but we made a lot of fun of it, like we. We laughed about it, even though you, you know it was a real, we had some real fears, but we could find the humour in it and that was very liberating.
Speaker 2:And it was, and I still to this day. Any single time I'm like in a situation where I feel like not comfortable so I could be scared of something, I could feel uncomfortable, I you know, if I fail at something, my initial first reaction is to laugh. So laughter is a very powerful. It's a very powerful coping mechanism and hence why we have many peeing our pants stories because we put ourselves in situations where our coping mechanism was to laugh, right, you?
Speaker 1:know, and I credit my mum with that too, because last week, on the radio show that I'm on on ABC, we asked our listeners to ring in with the thing that you know the life lesson that their mum had taught them, that they most remember.
Speaker 1:And so I reflected on that myself, and I think that my mum did teach me that, like that, humour is the most powerful and free coping mechanism there is in life. It can get you out of a lot of sticky situations too, but, more importantly so, my mum now has dementia, and that's a challenge for all of us. But she is the first person to make the dementia joke. She's the first person to have a laugh at the things that you know she's dealing with and forgetting, and I know that that won't necessarily last and we're on a we're on a journey here, but I really hope that her humor is her sense of humor, is the last thing to go, because it's such a it's such a strong coping mechanism and it's it's something that she taught me, um, by example. It's not something she ever said to me like be, be funny, find the joke, you know, turn something into a laugh. She just does it, and so I learned that just by osmosis, I guess.
Speaker 2:And that is such a beautiful life lesson, because you know the guy that taught me my mindset, who developed the Enlifted Method, which is basically words and stories, which is it makes me smile, because I read your biography and what you love doing is using words to allow people to tell their stories, and my mindset work is using words to allow people to examine their stories and create new stories for themselves. So you know, it's, it's just amazing. It's not amazing, actually it's. It's no wonder it's. It doesn't amaze me because we both have always loved words, right, but it's.
Speaker 2:It's an amazing gift that your mom's given me, because Mark England, the creator of that system, has a saying well, it's probably a borrowed one, but laugh at the devil and he will run away, okay. So I think of your mum with much fondness, with the laughing, because I think your mum may have joined in with us in peeing her pants quite a few times in some fits of laughter. You know that we've had over the years and it would be a wonderful thing if she could, you know, continue to laugh through her journey of dementia. And you know so there's that shared laughter, because if you've got the laughter, there's that light, there's the light on the situation.
Speaker 1:That's exactly right.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So you know, I'd like to be part of that too. Just saying, you know, come down and visit. The three of us could get together and even pee ourselves. I'm good for that. I'm always good for a good pee.
Speaker 1:It's been years since I've done that, that I've weaved through laughter. Now it's just because you know, menopausal bladder control, it's become a less fun'm. You know, menopausal bladder control, it's it's become a less, a less fun thing. But anyway, that's a, that's a story for another day. We don't need to go there right now. No, um, now you were going to say the the canoe story oh, the canoe, yeah, the canoe story.
Speaker 2:So another very special part of our, uh, our journey, um, see, and and going back to when I said at the start one of my values of being persistent, carrie and I were very persistent in quite a few things together and one of them was, um, our camping, um, skills, can I say so like they're all? Yeah, well, we tried, we tried it, look, we never gave up. We never gave up. We continue to try to learn to be great campers, if there is such a thing. So there's a place near Mackay called Yungla Dam and here's a story we're going up there in about five weeks time to celebrate my eldest son's 30th birthday. We're going camping at Yungla Dam. How lovely, yeah, so very excited for that.
Speaker 2:Anyway, we used to go camping up there a lot as young teenagers and that's where we learnt to drive a car. In fact, at Yungla Dam, we put in the reps and we were great, the most fantastic drivers by you know the first couple of crashes and things, yeah. So, anyway, we had a canoe and a catamaran and one day we decided to go canoeing, and Youngladam is massive. It has an area that has a lot of dead trees in it, which is a long way. It's a big, big journey to get from where we were camping to the dead trees. So, of course, being athletic, carrie and I, we were good for it, we're fit, and we thought let's go to the dead trees. So off we go. It would have taken us hours, hours, yeah, hours, but we're always up for a challenge, right, we're competitive, for a challenge, right, we're competitive. Well, like, can we make it to the dead trees? Yes, we can.
Speaker 2:So we, we set off on this one or two hour journey across this, across the dam, and, mind you, the dam is that big and it's also up in the hinterland in Mackay, so it gets a lot of wind gusts. So you could, you could be paddling and there'd be a big wind gust and it would almost push you backwards, but it was way too deep to get out. It was also filled with a lot of duckweed, um, which is part of this story. Okay, the duckweed was a very big stumbling block for carrie. Um, she was going to die in the duckweed. She'd convinced herself of that. So, yeah, anyway, we were still in the canoe, that's good. We get to the trees and we're like, wow, this is fantastic. You know, look at all these dead trees and we're canoeing through it. We've never been here before, because I don't. That was our first trip to the dead trees, wasn't it? It felt?
Speaker 1:very apocalyptic, like it had reached the end of the earth.
Speaker 2:It was end days exactly because what happened was the dam had gone up so fast that all the trees that had used to be on the foreshore had died. So there were these old, spooky trees and heaps of them. So we're going through the dead trees and I have no idea how this occurred. Carrie might be able to fill us in, but we we managed to tip the canoe, or did we do it because we thought it'd be fun?
Speaker 1:no, I can't remember. I think we, I think I might have decided to try and climb one of the dead trees and that okay, and that gives the boat to imbalance.
Speaker 2:And then we all of a sudden neck minute tipped aha, so the canoe fortunately had a flotation device inside, so the canoe didn't sink, but what had happened was it had filled up with water and it was floating upside down. And we were so far away from the shore and the only thing that was around us was the dead trees and the duckweed. The duckweed that was going to kill Carrie, was going to suck her under, and there were crocodiles in there in Carrie's story. I don't know what was in there Monsters, crocodiles, crocodiles. There were crocodiles in there, okay.
Speaker 1:Fresh water. I maintain to this day that there were crocodiles in there.
Speaker 2:Yep, yep. Okay, so you know this was a freshwater dam, but in Carrie's head there was saltwater. Six in Carrie's head there was salt water six meter, man-killing crocodiles in that duckweed.
Speaker 2:So it's never been disproven. Uh, I'm gonna, I'm gonna get a scientist onto that. So, anyway, it's upside down, it's upside down and we're scrambling to get back on. So we both did scramble back onto the bottom of the canoe and we thought it's all good, we'll just lie on the bottom of the canoe and we'll kick our way back to the, to the, to the shore, empty the canoe out and then paddle back. But the canoe was so full of water that it was not moving. We were kicking, kicking, kicking and it just wouldn't move. It just would not move and we were stuck in the dead trees with the six meter saltwater crocodiles in the freshwater dam, okay.
Speaker 2:So I realised after a while that that was not going to work and there was only one way. There was only one way out of this predicament you had to get off the bottom of the canoe and flip it back over in the water and, like, swim through the water, pushing the canoe over to the shore. That was the only way out. Otherwise we would have just had to lie on the bottom of the canoe until someone came and rescued us. And let me tell you that wouldn't have happened because the adults were probably over on the foreshore drinking beer, having a great time, not even thinking or knowing that we were getting eaten by six meter crocodiles. So you know, I got off, I I've, I risked it and I thought no, I've got to get off. And we? This is what we're doing. Come on, carrie get off.
Speaker 1:You did what you did. Was you that thing that you always did, which was you reached your snapping point? Okay, yeah the snapping point the snapping point is a thing, and you, you, you know we're all fun and games and everything, and then all of a sudden, leanne will go. No, that's it, this is what needs to happen, and there is no coming back from the snapping point.
Speaker 2:And that's when you reach that point. I'm a very dangerous person. You know anyone who knows me. So most of the people listening to this being, you know, at the start of my podcast, will know me. But the people who don't know me, um, I'm a very tolerant, patient, understanding, loving person, until the snapping point. The snapping point, and then you better watch out, because there's no negotiation and there's no safe place. Because, watch out, if I've got something, you're in trouble right. So I reached it. This is ridiculous. We were not getting back to the shore unless carrie got off the bloody bottom of that bloody canoe and she was not getting off. I was screaming at her get off the canoe. I think I even tried pulling you off, didn't I? Yeah, you did. I pushed you off the canoe, get off the bloody canoe yeah, because you were.
Speaker 1:You were happy for me at that point to be eaten by the crocodiles I don't give a shit about the crocodiles.
Speaker 2:Get off the canoe, die. I'm not dying with you. We're getting back to the shore, right. So I was very angry and uh, so I I'm not even sure you even got off the bottom of that canoe car. I think I did. I have to drag you back with you still half attached to the bottom of that bloody canoe.
Speaker 1:Yeah, possibly that was a very long day and what I mean. That was like we were already exhausted by the time we got to the dead trees, so everything that came after that was just like on some sort of automatic pilot, and so fear the the adrenaline of fear.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, but you know, I felt through that fear. This is this is feel the fear and do it anyway. I was terrified. Then, after I realized that being terrified was not serving me it's not going to get me anywhere except staying stuck I decided that the fear was no longer a thing and we just had to take action. And just listen to what I just said. That is exactly what I teach in my Unlifted Method right now. You're fearful of things. You're fear of failure. You're fear of not being good enough. You can get stuck in that for the rest of your life failure, your fear of not being good enough. You can get stuck in that for the rest of your life. You can choose to stay there. That's fine. However, you're not going to be able to take action at living your best life if you stay stuck in that fear.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, so people listening just reach a snapping point and just get on with it because that's the difference between you and me, and I think it's still possibly the difference is that you felt the fear and you knew that you needed to push on and something had to change. In that moment I felt the fear and I would still be on the bottom of that canoe today if not for you.
Speaker 2:No, you wouldn't, because a crocodile would have got you canoe today if not for you?
Speaker 1:no, you wouldn't, because a crocodile would have got you. So I mean, I think that the people that we are, um a lot of it, is shaped from childhood and I think I look back on and in most of the difficult situations that we face together, you were instinctively the stronger and more pragmatic person, and you still are. However, I was the person who was going to turn it into a good story, probably highly embellished, and I am still that person.
Speaker 2:And that is a strength, and we need people like you to tell our stories. Do you remember the day? There was a day I was many years ago, and I said to Carrie I think we were at a funeral or something really sad and I said to Carrie I just I want someone to say nice things about me when I die. And Carrie said oh, Leanne, stop being so morbid. You know I'm going to tell that story. And from that day on, I never worried because I know that Carrie's there to tell my story about my life.
Speaker 2:However, I've even gone one step further from there, and this is one of the reasons why I started this podcast, because I often said, gee, I'd love to write a book about my life, because I have so many cool stories about my life that I know people can at least get a little bit of entertainment from and learn from and be inspired that they're not in this alone, that someone else has gone through that and come out the other side a better person.
Speaker 2:And so my thing was always I'd love to write a book. And then I discovered podcasting and I thought, man, that is definitely the easier option because, yes, I may make mistakes on the podcast and um and ah and think, oh, I could have done a better job there. But in the process of because, yes, I may make mistakes on the podcast and um and ah and think, oh, I could have done a better job there, but in the process of doing this, I am developing my skills in real time and, yeah, there's going to be some podcast episodes out there that I think, oh, I cringe, and there already is. I cringe. However, that's such a powerful learning experience because I'm feeling the cringe and I'm feeling the fear of not being good enough and I'm doing it anyway, Whereas if I'd waited to write the book, it may have never happened and my stories wouldn't be out there.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. Now, just one minute, carlton. I'm just doing a podcast. Sorry, mate. Thank you. Sorry, I'm just doing a podcast. Sorry, mate. Thank you, sorry, leanne.
Speaker 2:It's fine. It's fine, we all have children.
Speaker 1:Eighteen-year-old boys are like toddlers. They just wander in like wide-eyed and bushy-tailed. So tell me what's next then for you, if you were to? You're always setting new goals and at the moment, you're also, you know, helping other people achieve their goals. But for you personally, what's? What's the next frontier? The?
Speaker 2:next frontier. Uh, it made me sound like a warrior. So I have like I know this, this I know. I just talked about this podcast and I look at this podcast as I'm a baby at podcasting. I'm a beginner, and it's okay to be a beginner, and this is one thing that I've learnt over the past two years by not only doing it myself but working with a lot of other people that you know. There's a thing they call imposter syndrome that I've no doubt you've heard of. Have you heard yeah, I have, of course and there's a thing called beginner syndrome. Now, it's really important to be able to establish the difference between the two, and imposter means you don't belong in that setting. Now, I have done enough work to know that I do belong here, and this is just such a deep passion of mine to be able to share. Look, I didn't, I didn't go through all, I did not have all of those life experiences for that not to be one of the reasons why I'm here. So I have I look up to this a fantastic podcaster who has I consider myself a pro podcast listener. I do listen to so many podcasts because there's such an educational opportunity for me and entertaining. And there's a lady and I'm sure most of the people here who are listening to this will know, unless they're not pro podcast listeners and they're only here because they want to listen to me. I don't think that's going to happen. They're only here because they want to listen to me. I don't think that's going to happen, and her name is Mel Robbins. Oh yes, so if you ever have the pleasure and the privilege of listening to Mel Robbins one of my you called it a frontier. I call it a goal and I call it a vision. It's a future vision. I want to be as successful and as empowering and change people's lives the way Mel Robbins change. It has changed my life and many people that I know of in my, with my, in my own fashion, like in my world, with my audience, which is more geared towards, you know, the healthy mind, mind, healthy body, strong body, strong mind, strength world. That is a frontier that I feel like. I'm just at the bottom of that hill, I'm at the bottom of that mountain, but and I feel like that is something that I, that I, I don't feel like it. That is one of my aspirations. I have no doubt you will achieve that. So that is one and I've already achieved.
Speaker 2:To finish off the story with Chase Tolleson and why I started the mindset training I experienced that first and I said to you before I don't like to teach people, I don't like to coach people unless I've experienced it to some degree myself. Teach people, I don't like to coach people unless I've experienced it to some degree myself. So I did five lessons with Chase and to get to the end of that story of why I was not enjoying the, you know, breaking the world records anymore was because I was focused on the outcome. Okay, so now, the last year of my life, my real focus has been take a step back and enjoy it for what it is Like.
Speaker 2:Why did I start weightlifting? Because it was fun. Right, and I've proven to myself over the past year that I can do weightlifting and I can even still go to competitions and have fun. So you know, that's one thing that I have conquered and I want to continue to conquer that, because you and I both said we're very competitive and I've harnessed that competitive spirit and brought it back into myself.
Speaker 2:Where now I want to, my biggest competitor is me, right, it's me, and I want to maintain the fun, the fun part of my life.
Speaker 2:I love to play and I love to have fun and I want to continue that and teach other people how to do that. So, as far as what's in the future for me, that's certainly there, like continuing the fun and the play aspect of life. It's almost like I'm doing a full circle right. Take out the almost. I am doing a full circle child, adult responsibilities, slowly going back to the child, but the childlike fun is what life's all about. As far as you know, I'm concerned, my podcasting and the other thing that I have on the go which I'm beginner syndroming at I'm not an imposter, because I belong in this world and I fully believe that I do belong in this world is my online community, which is called Strength Seekers, and developing that community so that I can provide a space for people to grow in body and mind in practical ways. So, as far as Frontiers goes, that's enough for a couple of years absolutely well.
Speaker 1:You're well on your way. You're well on your way and I'm I feel very privileged that, um, that you know everything that has made you who you are today. I mean, it's been a lot of hard work and determination, but some of it was one of the the adventures that you and I had as kids and the things that we went through together and, um, so I feel that you know really privileged to have been part of, of your life and your journey and I've and I've learned many things from you and will continue to.
Speaker 2:So, thank you and thank you for leading this conversation and bringing back to mind some of the it's it, it just it never ceases to amaze me how two people are in the same, the exact same scenario, where we were both in the water, we were both playing touch football, we both lost the grand, the um, the grand final of the um, debating um in grade 12. Yet I I focus on one aspect, you focus on the other, and it's so refreshing for someone to remind me of you know the things that I've forgotten, because that in itself is very empowering. And you said yourself that you love to help people tell their stories. It is, it's a privilege, it is, and you've helped me tell my story in an even better way because you've allowed me to access parts of my memory that I'd completely forgotten about, some of that stuff that we've talked about today. And you're great at asking questions and no doubt you are going to be great, you know, in the future in helping other people.
Speaker 2:I haven't had the pleasure of listening to you on the radio yet, so can you? No, seriously, I would love to listen to that. So can you just tell, like, the audience, where you are on the radio in case they, you know want to tune in.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm not the presenter, I'm producer on abc radio perth afternoons, which is a program hosted by michael tetlow, so I produce for him. So I find I find the stories and I find the people and I do talk sometimes with him on, you know, and we'll have a chat on on air about something um. But um, I'm more behind the scenes these days and I kind of like that because I get to work on the stories and find the people and give them their voice and so, yeah, I actually find that that's more pleasurable than being the host. And what I would say about and what we've done today is one thing I've learnt in 30 years of interviewing people is that everyone, without exception, can be unlocked by going back to their childhood and looking at those stories. And starting there, I've interviewed some pretty high profile and intimidating people.
Speaker 1:People I've been nervous about talking to people who do hundreds and hundreds of interviews and are probably quite sick of them, and I try and get them to open up by going back to tell me about your childhood. Where were you born? Know what's what? What? What teacher um had it made a difference in your life? Tell me about what your mum and dad did. Tell me about your siblings. What was your relationship with like with your siblings? What did you like to do to do when you were? What do you remember? What's your earliest memory? And every single person had a childhood, be it good or bad, and that's where it all, and I think starting there is the best way to unlock a person and to start helping them tell their story, and that's what we've done today.
Speaker 2:And that's amazing because that's exactly what I do with my Unlifted Method. Every story that someone is now stuck in can be traced back to a story they created as a child, so it's fantastic that we're both doing the same type of work, just in different settings. Because of it, and what ties that all together, is our love of words.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's very yeah. What you and I are doing is very synergistic these days, and it doesn't surprise me at all that that's kind of how things have worked out.
Speaker 2:So thank you so much for flipping the script and I would love to have you back on one day and if people want to actually follow you as in have a look at your books, like there'll be like links in the show notes for where you can find Carrie and Carrie's work, and Carrie has written three books and in fact, the last book was called Storylines. Is that correct? Yeah, and they're fantastic books of of life's journey, right? Is that the thinking behind? Is that the thinking behind your books?
Speaker 1:like I definitely they're about the um, the human condition, um, they're about um working this thing called life out and the the many relationships and um preconceived ideas that shape us. And yeah, it's just about. It's about I don't write crime or historical novels or romance, I just write about contemporary life and you know, this thing called being human.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, human and Carrie. I'd just like to say my parting thought is this Continue to practice those splits and handstands, because I'm coming over there in about six weeks to see you and we can have a split-off handstand off. Just to go back to our competition days, I better get into training. All right, thank you so much for being here. Thank you, and go and give Carrie a follow. Go buy one of her books now that you've heard her in person. All right, thanks, leanne. Thank you.
Speaker 1:Talk to you soon, okay, bye. No-transcript.