12 | Stop Being Boring as Batsh!t: Creating Connection with Mike Schwartz

Ever wondered how the simple joys of life can fuel your resilience and creativity? Join me today as we dive into a great impromptu conversation about connection with our Canadian friend, and the man behind the scenes of this podcast, Mike Schwartz. We share personal experiences of connecting with others in a candid conversation I'm certain you'll all enjoy, if not for the Canadian accent you've all grown to love alone!

Today... 

• We examine the rewards of face-to-face interactions and the nurturing roles that form the backbone of connection and simplicity in our daily activities.
• We talk about the silent yet powerful moments of connection with nature and friends.
• We discuss how the tranquillity of sunsets, sunrises, and daily walks can rejuvenate your soul and spark creativity. 
• And we reflect on "moments" that create connection, highlighting some of our shared experiences and how simple things like lying in the sun looking up at the clouds in a Melbourne park highlight the essence of true companionship and how these quiet moments can inspire profound personal growth and creative breakthroughs.

Learn more about Mike and grab his free e-book here!
www.miketheschwartz.com

Follow Leanne on Instagram @lkstrengthcoach

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:01

Welcome to Uplift you, creating strong bodies and mind. Get ready to power up your day with practical strength training tools, inspiring stories and build resilience of body and mind. It's time to uplift you, together with your host, leanne Knox. I have no chance to do anything. I've just gotten home and just jumped straight back into coaching. Oh cool, how's that feel? Coaching Fantastic.

Speaker 2: 0:25

Yeah, jumping right back in, not having a moment to be like, okay, what am I doing?

Speaker 1: 0:31

No, I had time to think about that. I thought about that in the last few days when I was with Ruby and people don't people think that two weeks off training is, like you know, phenomenal. How do you take two weeks off? Training is, like you know, phenomenal. How do you take two weeks off training? I used to think that too.

Speaker 2: 0:49

Yeah, no, it's an evolution. It's interesting, isn't it, oh boy. So, talking about your, your time away, what did you? What was the biggest coolest bit?

Speaker 1: 1:11

coolest bit. The coolest bit yeah, the coolest bit and it was and I realized I I get to work on this more now was the fact that I actually had to sit down, not had to. I got to sit down with people and make face-to-face conversation every single day, like as in just relating to people in a group of people. And I know I do that in the gym and I know I do that with coaching, but that's because there's a central theme there and that is the exercise that we're on. You know that we're doing the training, but this was just general chit chat and I'm like oh Whoa, this is. I'm totally out of my comfort zone. I haven't done this for a while, like gone gone into a situation where it's not about physical training and it's not about mindset or it's not about any of that or any type of coaching, it's just pure relationships. That's a little bit of getting used to again.

Speaker 2: 2:12

And I imagine a person like you with that like you're such a natural coach, being on stage when you're not necessarily looked to as like the leader, that in and of itself can be uncomfortable, I'm sure.

Speaker 1: 2:26

Challenging yeah, Challenging, but I did really enjoy that and it's a reminder. Oh look, I just. It made me realize that there's parts of my life that I really do miss. And the parts of my life that I really do miss, and the parts of my life that I really do miss are the really simple things like cooking meals and a lot of people.

Speaker 1: 2:52

A lot of women wouldn't like me to say this, but I love taking on the traditional woman role, as in you saw me when you and Ryan were here. I love cooking for people. I love taking on the traditional woman role, as in you saw me when you and Ryan were here. I love cooking for people. I love looking after people. I love, you know, nurturing people. So when I was out there doing, you know, on camping, we were all cooking and cleaning and doing it together as a group. So we would have this little routine where it was Steve and my, like it was our night to cook, so we would cook and then Bernie and Bluey would clean, you know, clean up after that and, um, I just, I just love, you know I could easily go back to a life where I didn't do any podcasting or coaching or anything and just look after the people around me. I love that nurturing role thing and just look after the people around me.

Speaker 2: 3:48

I love that nurturing role.

Speaker 1: 3:55

And what about it is the attraction for you. I love the real simple connection, like the real simple appreciation that you get like about the simple things in life food, good nutrition, just. I should say just like peaceful connection. When I say peaceful, what I mean by that is just sitting and looking at a fire, or just sitting and looking at the stars at night, or going on a walk and not having to to plan and be a leader or anything, just being, just being just. I love just being. You know, the simple things in life which if we didn't have technology and we didn't need to earn any type of money or you know, I would just be happy to cook and clean for the rest of my life. I love that role I find. Cook, clean, garden, go for walks, go hiking, that's my. You know that's my jam, yeah. So that's, you know that's my jam, yeah. The only caveat I have on that is if I did that for a long period of time, would that be enough?

Speaker 2: 5:15

I'm not sure. Yeah, that's when you start challenging the define feminine with the generating attitude of always wanting to do something and build. You're very strong. What I've learned from over the course of the years getting to know you you're very, very strong in both your yin and your yang. You've got a very, very good attitude towards doing, but you've also got a really good attitude towards being, and that divine feminine really shows when you're in that nurturing role and I'm certain that you would, even if you weren't allowed to coach or podcast or anything like that you would find a way to turn cooking into a competition. All right, we did seven steaks yesterday. We're doing nine. Put them on the barbie, here we go.

Speaker 1: 6:13

I think you'd find a way. I actually think you're right because, like, my shoulder went before I went away, my shoulder was pretty bad. Um, I I know you'd find this hard to believe, but I just overdid it a little bit because I thought, you know, I'm doing olympic weightlifting. I thought there's a competition coming up on the 21st of september which all my power lifters are going in, and um, it's up in cannes, so it's road trip. Right, it's road trip and I'm like I want to be involved in this. So I'll just do bench once a week and deadlift once a week, and I'll just add that in.

Speaker 1: 6:49

So here I am, you know, doing this benching, and then one day the straw that broke the camel's back because this tends to happen in my life quite regularly You'd think you'd learn, but that competitive thing you're talking about comes out. So Steve says we've got to push these three big hay bales. You know from my gym you've been here all the way up the back to where the orchard is. So there was me, gaza and Steve, and we had to push this massive big hay bale which had been wet and sitting in a paddock for a year. So it was lopsided and it was heavy.

Speaker 2: 7:28

Starting, it would be impossible.

Speaker 1: 7:29

Yeah, so pushing like this for about 200 metres up and down sort of little hills and through creeks and across rocks, and of course that was a competition, because Steve's like he calls me what's he call me the? Um, the forklift, yeah of course.

Speaker 1: 7:46

He says come on, forklift, let's go. So I just my brain leaves my body when these things happen. I don't, it goes, it's not there anymore and I'm like okay, yeah, cool. So we did it. It took ages and it was. It was bad, bad. It was like so hard, I was like dying and sweating and puffing. We all were anyway. The next day I woke up and I went oh gee, my gee, my shoulder's a bit sore. And then I tried to lift it up like that. And I went oh, and here's the thing I blamed it on the, the hay, the hay, bale, push right. Yeah, the, the one thing that broke the camel, you know the straw that broke the camel's back. Because what my brain didn't register is that it was slowly getting more and more stressed out over use snatches, jerks, presses, bench press. And then I blame it on the hay, the hay bale, push right of course, yeah, of course.

Speaker 2: 8:48

I mean not the seven other added push patterns that you've added into your already ridiculous strength program.

Speaker 1: 8:57

So yeah, of course it was the hay bale so the hay bale did that, the hay bale did that. So, anyway, I spent the next three weeks doing in on my holiday doing all the retraction exercises, all the exercises, to you know, strengthen the tendon, lower traps, everything to pull it back, and I'd like to say that was the end of the story, but it wasn't. I came back. I went to gravity on two days ago and we're sitting there and Chelsea goes. So we're discussing the next eight-week block and my shoulder's feeling really good.

Speaker 1: 9:31

I did snatches the day before at 75%, no problems. I'm like, yeah, I'm back on track. So Chelsea says in our new eight-week block we're going to do a 3RM dumbbell bench press as one of the activities. And I went oh yeah, cool, that would be awesome. I love dumbbell bench. I said, oh, in fact, I love it so much I'm going to do that now. So I did it. I did it. I did three 27.5-kilo dumbbell bench press, like really needed spotting. And then, as soon as I finished it, I went oh, that's right, my shoulder was sore three weeks ago. Oh, now it's sore again. Where did my brain go? So you're right. You're right about the competitive side of things. I probably would turn the cooking, the cleaning and everything else into a competition.

Speaker 2: 10:30

It'd be like a race for you. You'd have to have like a. You'd have to like put obstacles around the kitchen like kids and boys and the dogs Like they've got to get the dogs involved and then, like Steve, he's going to be like pestering you and trying to distract you while you're doing these cooking things by like throwing Tim Tams in your face and be like eat the Tim Tam. Right, I see it. There's a whole sitcom. You could have a whole reality show or something you know cooking with the Knox's.

Speaker 1: 10:59

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 11:02

It could fly, guys. I think we're here, I think we're now. We just got to get a film crew in there and film this whole thing, and now you get a TV show.

Speaker 1: 11:13

Oh dear. Anyway, that was the highlight and of course, the sunsets and the sunrises were phenomenal and I went out of my way and climbed many, many I'm not allowed to call them mountains, because Steve comes from New Zealand hills. I climbed many hills to get many good sunset and sunrise pictures and that really was absolutely like sublime, because that's one of my favourite words. And in fact in that two-and-a-half-week period I lost one and a half kilos just from walking and climbing, and that's the other thing. I realized that, um, I miss is the ability to, not the ability, but just the time in in order, I just love walking. Yeah, like I would walk two hours a day if, if I had the time to do that. So I've made a point. I've made a point of going walking every single day since I've been home yeah, just getting out more of it.

Speaker 2: 12:13

Again, talking about connection, it's like connecting with nature, like that's such a critical part I think people miss, and especially for like you. You and I both know how it fuels all the other things. Right, getting outside, looking at the sun, staring at the fire something you mentioned earlier. Being outside like I've had my best sessions. Just, I'm walking dark and I'm like I feel tight in my hips. I'm gonna roll out here in the grass and people are just looking at like what is this clown doing? And I'm just like in the park and then I stay there for 45 minutes and then that turns into an hour and a half and I've got a whole like yoga in the park session going on, which is super cool, and the sun's coming down.

Speaker 2: 12:56

It's just there's so many pieces that just make it such a beautiful.

Speaker 2: 12:59

It's in that blue night or blue hour as well. So it's just, like you know, right after sunset and you just there's just so many things that you can just really get connected and then you come back and you're fully recharged and you can carry on with whatever you had to do, whatever that obstacle was. That's when I know I'm hitting a roadblock in like creative process, or if I don't have something from um, from any of the projects I'm working on, I'm like, well, there's no sense in like sitting here and waiting for it, so I'm going to go out and do something that I can, you know, do, whether it's a workout outside or going into an ice bath or something like that. I think that there's so many like natural elements that just reset the body automatically and make you immediately forget about what that problem was, so that when you come back, you're seeing it from a different lens, you're in a different head space. You're able to like creatively problem solve the whole thing if it was giving you problems.

Speaker 1: 14:07

There's just so the question to ask yourself if you're not feeling connected to whatever you're doing. The question think back to a time when you felt really connected. What were you doing? No, who were you with? Where were you? And I think back to, honestly, the two weeks that you and Ryan were here. There were so many fantastic connection times in that two-week period, but the one that really stands out for me was lying in the park in melbourne, yeah, well, yeah, lying in the on the grass in melbourne. Yeah, that we're all just laying there. Yeah, that that was looking up at the clouds, um, yeah. And that road trip was crazy.

Speaker 2: 15:03

It was so good yeah, there's so many highlights from that whole bit like those are moments when we talk about connection, like moments are really, really important. That's the thing that you're talking about essentially is like think about that time. That's a moment, and when you can create moments, that's when you create connection, and when you combine the conversation with the connection. That's what converts Right, and that's what, like whether you're thinking about connection from the business sense, whether you're thinking about personally with yourself or with your sales team, if you're a business owner, or something like that, or how to get more clients or anything, if you're a trainer, a coach, or starting up your own business it's all about creating those moments, those little pockets of time that really stand out to you and the people involved, and both of those moments, I knew exactly what you were talking about.

Speaker 2: 15:52

I was like yeah, I know exactly where I was. I remember we all put the phones away, we laid there in each other's presence, but we were all having very individual moments. I'm sure other's presence, but we are all having very individual moments. I'm sure the grand scheme of it, though, was laying down together, being completely cool with just being in each other's presence rather than having to do just be and just being around each other. That was enough for me for sure, and I'm interested to see if that was a similar kind of feeling that you had 100%.

Speaker 1: 16:29

Yeah, just, it's fantastic when you can be, just be with people and not have to for me, not have to use my voice, if I can share a connection which is more like it's a vibration or a frequency of being in someone's presence and not having to talk, that's really special and you know you're with the right people. When you can do that, when you don't feel the need to fill that gap of silence, to fill that gap of silence, then that you know those are your people or that's. You know that's the moment where you can connect just through presence, just through being, and honestly, that doesn't happen too often in our busy world and when it does, you really take note of it and remember it. That's why I remember that there were two times we did it. We did it once in the park when you came along a little bit later in Melbourne yeah, in the city. That was one and the other time was in the other park near my sister Lauren's place in East Brunswick, where we spent two times just lying on the grass not saying a word. Actually, there was a third time and we were on the bank. We were on the bank looking over the river in Melbourne, in the city again and we were lying there and I'm sure you were thinking whatever you were experiencing then would have been whatever that was, but I at that time was thinking about podcasting and remember that I was lying on the grass.

Speaker 1: 18:12

Now that we bring this up, I clearly remember this now. I was lying on the grass looking up at the clouds, thinking Mike keeps talking about this podcast. I've had these conversations with you for a long time about podcasting and I remember the first time this whole podcasting thing came into my consciousness was when I first joined Unlifted, because before Unlifted I didn't listen to podcasts. And I got into this Unlifted group and all these people are talking about how they've all got their own podcasts. I'm like, what is this? This some weird podcasting cult? Because, yes, no, because honestly, in australia the podcasting is nowhere near like it is in america and and I'm not sure about canada, but I'm assuming it's the same or similar similar, but, yeah, probably similar to the US than it is to Australia.

Speaker 2: 19:06

Australia is on its own island, literally right.

Speaker 1: 19:09

We are, and I couldn't understand why every second person in my training group level one or level it was level two, I think, maybe it was both had their own podcasts. And I thought this is just weird. And do you know what I said to myself? I said it to Steve I'm never going to do a podcast. I'm never. I'm not doing that. Why do they need to do that? What is this podcasting business? And then, of course, I started listening to the podcasts, found the value in them and went, oh man, this is cool. And then and then I would have met you soon after that. And then you got into your podcasting after your music.

Speaker 2: 19:54

I was going to say how did, how did you learn of me?

Speaker 1: 19:58

On a podcast. On a podcast, how did I learn about? How did I learn about, how did I learn about chase? For example, on a podcast I heard him talking, I heard and this is a connection thing, and it's it, and I I know I've told you the story. I'm going to say it again because it's a very powerful um connection time in my life. I remember where I was, what I was doing and what I was looking at. I was sitting out on my veranda looking at the beautiful trees and nature, because that's the catalyst for me If I can see trees and see the sky and be in nature and listen to something very powerful. It doubles that connection, it doubles the power of that connection. So I was sitting out there listening to the Unlifted podcast with Dave Chase.

Speaker 1: 20:56

Was it Kimberly? I think it was. There were three. It may have been Kimberly, anyway, and it was Chase's story. It was meet the coaches and I listened to Chase's voice, because that frequency, as you know, it's really very powerful for connection and I listened to his story. So it was a combination of the tone of his voice, which is very different. Chase has a very different tone of voice, the tone of his voice, which is very different. Chase has a very different tone of voice and his actual story of being a CrossFitter, owning a CrossFit box and his do do, do, do more, more, more. I'm like, yeah, I get that I connected with that story.

Speaker 1: 21:39

And then, as soon as that podcast finished, what did I do? I picked my phone up. I messaged Kimberly and I said I want to work with Chase. That was the first time I'd ever heard of Chase Tolleson and the first time I've heard his name, the first time I heard him talk. And I picked up the phone and said I want to work with him. So Kimberly put me in contact with Chase. Chase said this is how much it is.

Speaker 1: 22:05

I went holy moly because it was the first time I'd ever spent money on myself. It was the first time I'd invested directly into myself, except for going to university, which I believe is a different type of thing, because going to university I wanted to be a teacher. I wanted to go into a system where I got paid, so I was an employee, but this was the first time I'd invested in myself to really start my business. This is who Leanne Knox is LK Strength Coach and I knew that I had to do this piece. I had to work on myself before I could help others fully, so I paid it with my eyes wide open. So yeah, I'm just saying power of podcasting and power of connection through podcasting was amazing, and so that's how I met you as well yeah, I mean I'd say it's a pretty powerful way of leveling up.

Speaker 2: 23:08

I mean it's it's infotainment or edutainment right it's like it's, it's entertaining, it's cool that you draw. I just want to call back a couple things that you said. That really stood out to me is the um, the feeling, the need. You know you're in in a good space when you're with people that don't feel the need that they need to, and in music, that is music. Music is actually like the. The beautiful thing about music is the space between the notes, right like that's what makes most songs really powerful. It's not that they're condensed with all of this beautiful, no, it's like the space in between that builds suspense and then comes back in and it's that up down, that ebb and flow and conversation and human connection is the same way. So you know, and another thing you said, with the frequency and the emotion, that's like every sound, especially music, is like an ocean. You've got the waves crashing on the top. That's the emotion of the song. So what you were describing with chase's voice is like his tone. That's what you hear. That's like the surface stuff, the actual frequency. We don't understand it. That's like the current that's underneath the ocean. You don't see the waves and stuff, but you get out there and then you're like under the, under the riptide. You know, like that's that shit that catches you off guard and and that's the stuff that can really move people. And I'm willing to bet it was a really beautiful blend the first moment that you heard that, because you were like I know that this is my guy right. So it's a blend of that emotion and that, that power of the actual frequency. So I mean connection.

Speaker 2: 24:47

The greatest communicator is music. We know that Sound, right. So when you can bring that into everything that you're doing, you're leveling things up that people don't. It's not even on their radar. You know what I mean. Um and uh to your point with regards to like just the, the whole, the whole idea of having going from I'm never going to go podcasting to doing quite well and really enjoying. It is just the ability like that's proof is that you can change, right. And I think a lot of people think that they are this one thing, for instance they're I hear this all the time I'm the starving artist. I hear that all the time with the musicians. Oh, we're just and they'll play into that identity and they'll play into that. And communication is no different. And especially when you start reiterating that to your friends oh, I'll never start a podcast. That's not for me, or I'm sure you hear this, I'm not a morning person Cool, as long as you keep telling yourself that that's a good way to communicate that to you.

Speaker 2: 25:54

You want to talk about connection. You're connecting with that for sure, the more you say it. Do you ever want to be not that? Oh, carry on. But if they do, yeah, I really want to. Well, first step is probably start asking questions. I mean that's, I've broken it all down, what I, what I really if, if I can, I want to.

Speaker 2: 26:15

This seems like a good point to to jump in. Is that, like, I've been in the people business for two decades, like just figuring that out, like, oh, that's a lot of time to get a lot of really good reps in, and you see a lot of shit that goes bad and you see a lot of shit that goes really good, and what I've learned is that people that are poor communicators, poor connectors, poor with their people skills, they, they do four things for big mistakes. Would you like to hear them? Sure, okay, and tell me if. Like, tell me if I'm crazy as well. But the first big mistake is that they tell and this, this applies, I've tested this. It doesn't matter if it's business, it doesn't matter if it's personal, it doesn't matter if it's intimate, like on a date, it doesn't matter if it's friends, it's just human connection as a big umbrella. So think about it this way and I'll use some different examples to put this in place.

Speaker 2: 27:08

But you go to a networking mixer or you go to the gym Okay, those are similar, they may not seem it, but you get placed with somebody maybe at this networking mixer who has a desire, a burning fire inside, to tell them, or tell everybody that they meet, all about all the things that they can do, and they're immediately going to try to help you. And they go immediately try to solve problems typically men, right, it's just part of the masculine energy. We are problem solvers, okay. So the first thing that they do is they, they lead with, like the me show, right, they. They tell everybody about all the things. They have all the answers, okay. The second thing that they tend to do is they tend to be boring as dirt when they're telling all these things.

Speaker 1: 27:56

They're just can I just say we have another saying in australia for that it's called. What is it? Yeah, boring as batshit boring as batshit.

Speaker 2: 28:04

Yeah, that is, that is even better. Okay, um, can I? Use that from now on like, as you say, boring as bad when you said dirt, I thought that doesn't sound right.

Speaker 2: 28:12

It's got to be batshit okay, well, I mean, dirt is pretty fucking boring, like if you look at dirt like, hey, we could paint, we could watch the paint dry and it would be more exciting, okay, that's. The point, though, is that people do these things that are just like script, and they're just like they're gonna sit down on a zoom meeting and they're gonna do this and they're gonna do this, and it's so fucking boring. I see it all the time with bands that I get to work with. They're doing the same things, because somebody, 60 years ago, thought it was a good idea to do those things. I'm like, yeah, but everybody is doing it, so you don't stand out at all. So they're boring as shit, batshit.

Speaker 2: 28:52

Particularly the third piece is that there're either they're on like there's literally no middle ground. They're either egomaniacs, completely narcissistic, or they've got zero confidence. It seems as though there's no middle ground with these people that poorly communicate or connect right. They're either A or B. There's nothing in between. They just have no confidence in their ability, which really sucks for when you're trying to build connection, or they're way too much, and it pushes people away. This is often associated with that first problem. And then the fourth thing, and guilty as charged. They make things really complex because they're usually pretty intelligent people that you're connecting with. But these really intelligent people are talking like they're talking to all these other really intelligent people or like they're talking to somebody that's in their brain. So they're making these things like really really, really complex, when all it needs to be is three, maybe four things. That tells you enough of what you need to know so that people can go. That sounds right, let's go right. So they make things really, really complex.

Speaker 2: 29:58

On the reverse, the people that are really successful, especially in connection and just in life in general, they ask questions, they break patterns, they create connection through confidence and they simplify A, b, cs, right there, right, and when. You can think about connecting and you can practice every. The best part about this whole thing is that you can practice every single day, like you could literally go down, grab a coffee and practice connecting by asking better questions, and it's not just like small talk oh, hey, jim, how are you? No, it's like asking calibrate you know this from the work that you've done with studying some Chris Voss. Calibrate you know this from the work that you've done with studying some Chris Voss. But asking calibrated questions or asking situational questions, especially for sales.

Speaker 2: 30:50

Like understanding situations, understanding that person's situation first, and then presenting a problem and then looking at how do we like what are the implications of this problem, and then what's the needs payoff, like what will happen if this is good, because it's not all doom and gloom. Just looking at like oh shit, but like what's going to happen if you fix it, you know, like looking at both of those as contrasting worlds those work, like I said, in business and in relationships, because it's all all. All connection is about relation. So it's it's whether or not you choose to accept. I love when people are like, oh, I'm not in sales.

Speaker 2: 31:22

Okay, says the married guy, dude, like you're married, of course you're in sales, you got married. Like you had to sell that. People don't think about that, though. Leanne right, people think like, oh, here's your product, here's your tech, here's your personal training. No, it's not Every single conversation that you have can lead to connection and when it does, it can lead to conversion world, because people would actually be asking intelligent questions and looking to connect with people and we wouldn't have these. I'm sure you'd agree that a large part of the problems in the world are based off of communication skills yes, I, I do understand and I think a lot of this uh, what have you?

Speaker 1: 32:11

what you're saying comes? Uh, look, I also had the story three years ago that or actually up until three years ago that I that I don't do sales because think, think about, I was a teacher so I didn't have to do it. But then, but of course, I was in sales and I was in one of the hardest roles of sales in the world because I was a relief teacher. Now, what that means is I go in and I teach subjects that I have no idea what I'm teaching maths, science you know, I got nothing. I go in marine science, like how to plot a course through islands, and so every single day I was selling the concept that I knew something about. What I was talking about and here's the biggest thing with that setting in particular is how this information is going to benefit your life, because what's the one thing that teenagers ask all the time in school?

Speaker 2: 33:20

How does it, yeah, how does it apply, like, how am I?

Speaker 1: 33:22

going to use it? Where am I going to use this? Where am I ever going to use this? And maths is like algebra. Is that's the? That would be the biggest question ever asked.

Speaker 1: 33:33

I didn't have a good comeback for that one, because I don't like algebra either. However, I realized after working with you, after connecting with you, that everything that you just said about being a good connector and conversion are things that I've done organically, without knowing that I was doing that right Just life experience, I guess. But the one thing that really underpins that my ability to be able to do that was I used what I called the word, what I called the concept of empathy, called the word, what I called the concept of empathy. I thought, now I'm going to put myself in that person's shoes and listen to what I'm saying to that person. Is this something that would appeal to me? Like if I, you know, like I just put myself in the other person's shoes, okay, so, and from an empathetic point of view. So every relationship that I developed, that I've developed over the last 40 years of coaching, come from what I called an empathetic or an understanding what that person really wants and needs and how my words that I'm using and my approach that I'm using with them.

Speaker 1: 34:54

How would I react to that, and so that that was my approach and my approach that I'm using with them. How would I react to that, and so that was my approach. And, of course, that was just organic. That was just something that I did, thinking I was never in sales Like I used to look at Steve who has been in sales in a retail like mechanical, owning his own business, and I used to look at him and think I could never do that. Like, how do you do that? Little did. I know I was already doing it, but since working with you, I've honed in those skills and added a lot more Like. This has been a game changer.

Speaker 2: 35:35

It's such a great like. Again it's it's applicable to 98%. You know Chris Voss's stuff never split the difference applies. It's great to know how. It's similar to Enlifted. Enlifted applies to 98% of life. The 2% is up to you to figure out when it's actually better to not use it. Same with Chris Voss.

Speaker 2: 35:59

One of the things that stands out is when he says why. You know, like the why question. When we talk we'll go back to the calibrated questions. So like I've been studying this guy since he was nobody right, like five, six years ago right when he was, he wasn't even on masterclass. But what he says is don't use a why and similar to Unlifted, don't use don't right Until you know the power of the word so that you can become one with it, because then you can be a Jedi ninja and know when it actually helps you to use, because the argument is a why question is going to put the other person on defense. That can be a very good thing.

Speaker 2: 36:42

Oftentimes people need to feel like you can relate, you're going to get rebellious and what's that going to do? It's going to create action. And if my job as a coach is to motivate my athlete, so why did you choose that it's going to be a perfect kick in the ass without the perfect kick in the ass. You know what I mean. So it's like about knowing when to use those things and when you can build your soft skill set up with a bunch of weapons of love, right, when you can create with all of this powerful soft skill. You can create a lot more change in your world by knowing when I think the greatest leaders of all time are the ones that know that they don't know everything and when they can empower their team, or they can empower their athletes, or they can empower those around them to carry the rest of the world for them for a minute while they go take a sip of water, you know, or go on a two-week holiday.

Speaker 1: 37:42

That's what I mean.

Speaker 2: 37:46

It's understanding that and having that, because I used to be the coach that thought like if I gave, because I knew my clients knew that I was not the best trainer on the team. I knew that, I absolutely knew that. But I was me like 50% Tigger, 50% Rafiki, so like that worked for me. But when I went on a vacation, I got this sense in my chest like closed up, I'm doing this on the camera Because I knew that I had to continue with two weeks of like having my clients and I had to put them with a trainer that was going to get them great results. And then I had this thought in my head that now that I've put them with them, they're never coming back to me. What actually happened is, when I came back, they were like thank you so much. That was like the best experience of my life. And they just like gave me their credit card, like let's keep going. I was like whoa, because people buy.

Speaker 2: 38:38

If you're, if you're talking about conversion and this can be dating as well but if you or or any kind of relationship, like if you're, if you're trying to have a hard conversation with your family member or a friend, that's doing something that you don't quite agree with. People aren't going to listen to you unless they know love and trust you right. And one way to know love and trust is to release the outcome and the expectation that you know everything, because you don't likely. And if you do, I need to know you because I need you in my professional network, because then if you know everything, perfect, you're a great fit.

Speaker 1: 39:14

Also, do you believe that when someone that you look up to, who's talented in whatever field it is, has the bravery to say I actually don't know the answer to that, however, I know this person's very good with it and I will go and find out for you or you can go and ask them that's actually a vulnerable, brave moment that people respect and that increases their trust in you 100%, because you're not trying to be someone that you're not or trying to say that you know, trying to be the fountain of all knowledge, and that is a really big thing. In the sporting world that I've come up against, you know, for many, many years. I remember being a young coach, a young gymnastics coach, in my early 20s. Working gymnastics is cutthroat. It honestly is. It's guard your knowledge, guard your knowledge, do not share it. And I used to get coaches in from other clubs to come and do clinics and workshops with my gymnasts and a lot of coaches be like that's a bit weird. Why would you do that? Because that coach might steal your gymnasts um, you know, or your gymnasts might think they're a better coach, just like you said. They're going to go to that coach now and I'll tell you it never happened. It never happened. They came in. They helped increase my knowledge because I would be struggling with how do I teach a proper?

Speaker 1: 40:50

I remember a clear incident. I was really struggling with a simple skill, really. Incident. I was really struggling with a simple skill, really cartwheels on beam. If you call 10 centimeters, doing a cartwheel on 10 centimeters an easy skill, but in the gymnastics world that's a pretty simple skill, but the fact that it was on beam. So I looked around and I said who's doing a great job in the coaching world and is producing great results, doing a great job in the coaching world and is producing great results? And I remember a guy called Jim Rickett from a club nearby and I got him to come in and do cartwheel, a cartwheel workshop on beam, and it was and it was it just it educated me, it educated my, my gymnasts and it made us all stronger. So I I think of things as being a collective knowledge and a collective effort. If you can get a team and be a collective effort, guess who benefits the most?

Speaker 2: 41:46

The client.

Speaker 1: 41:47

The client.

Speaker 2: 41:48

In the music industry we call it serve the song.

Speaker 1: 41:50

So we're here to serve the people that we are coaching and connecting with. We're not here to serve ourselves. And that's where, and that's always been my motto, and you know that because you know I love working in teams and in fact we can quickly talk about what just happened in the last three weeks because I haven't had time to connect with you since I've been back. But you know, I've been coaching Ruby for three years and here's the other thing Ruby came to me after being with two other coaches. I haven't produced Ruby. Ruby's a great lifter. It wasn't me that produced the great lifter, it was Ruby that put in the effort to make herself a great lifter and she was guided by two coaches before me.

Speaker 1: 42:39

So I've had the privilege of working with Ruby for three years and then, because I went away for two weeks, we know that the missing piece in the performance Ruby's physicality was ready to go. So her physical body was ready to go, but the very important other part was her mindset, and so I reached out to you. Now here's the thing. Was I thinking, man, if I ask mike to to do mindset for ruby, ruby's gonna go to mike and and for all her performance mindset and I'm gonna miss out. I going to miss out on some business and some money and some glory here. You know, I didn't think that. I thought Mike can only make Ruby stronger. So what was your experience of that?

Speaker 2: 43:28

Well, first off, thank you so much for that opportunity. It was an absolute. Like those are Ruby is what one coach would, and you know this because you work with her. Like she is like a dream client, right, because as an athlete, she has the work ethic to get it done, whatever that is, and she's been opened up to understanding that sometimes to get it done is to actually not get it done, and that's the idea is like slowing down to speed up. So, first off, thank you so much for trusting me with getting to work with her, because I get to learn. That's my favorite thing about being a coach is I get to learn so much from the actual coaching experience. I call myself a perpetual student for that reason, because I'm learning just as much from Ruby and from you in that experience.

Speaker 2: 44:21

When she first approached me with some of the problems that were going on and what she'd like to get out of it, our quick little taper, she didn't really know. She's like I don't know, because, like, I've never done this before and that's just like a clean slate. So it's like okay, well, what's coming up? What have you done in the past? And the answer was like oh well, you know, I do it, and you could see some like noncommittal tendencies there, like it was cool if she got it, but she wasn't going to, you know, hang herself if, if you know, things didn't work out, which is great. In one sense, it also caused me to, okay, make a note. Why is that? Because I want to dig on that. Why is there no like sense of urgency to compete if you want to actually compete and it? It was really interesting working through the mental side of things, because and I, I'll, I'm gonna give away the farm on this one the secret, I believe, was getting her out of third person ruby, the passenger of the car.

Speaker 2: 45:29

It was revealed on one of our last times together that when she was visualizing, had I not guess what abcs came in handy, I asked the right fucking questions. Had I not asked the right question and just assumed I would have never, ever figured this out, which I believe was a very, very key part of the podium finish for um, I asked, okay, so, like, what's the difference between visualizing and the imagery which she just did? Because we had seen the similarities she had felt somatically, she felt in the body the same thing. I'm like, okay, but what was the difference. Oh, when I visualize, I'm just sort of watching myself down here. I'm like, bing, bing, bing, oh cool, so you've developed a professionalism of being the passenger in your own fucking life.

Speaker 2: 46:20

That's literally what I said, and she's like, like. She just sort of like, uh, like, oh, I never considered that. I'm like. Imagery puts you into first person. So when we're dealing with athletes, especially athletes that are non-committal, what I've learned, being one myself, I had an injury, for every time I didn't make the grade. Oh, my knee was sore. Well, why the fuck didn't you tell me that?

Speaker 2: 46:42

oh, I didn't think it was gonna bother me but it was a really good scapegoat at the end when I didn't actually complete the thing that I was gonna do. Right, if she sits back over here and watches herself, she doesn't actually fully invest and this is any athlete that we're using her as a, as a, as an example.

Speaker 2: 47:00

If you're watching over here and being like, oh well, I mean yeah, because I was just sort of, I was on the, I was up in the bleachers or on the sidelines rather than being in the game, personally I would rather lose the game, I would rather get blown out and be still in the game and on the field or in the pitch or on the ice. If you're from Canada, eh then being up here in the, in the press box, you know what I mean Watching myself over here, that just doesn't compute and that shows a lack of ownership. And that's the actual noncommittal piece. And that was the, the, the switch on. That I truly believe, and you'll have to confirm with her, but I truly believe, conscious or subconscious, that was actually going to be. Because I asked her I'm like have you lifted at this place before? Do you know what it smells like? Do you know the surroundings? She's like countless times. I'm like perfect, that's great, you have a severe advantage, because the beautiful thing about imagery, as opposed to just visualizing, is that you've got five senses versus one. You know that you guys talked about it on her prep thing. And I'm like, yes, bang on.

Speaker 2: 48:22

And that's what actually led me to asking the question. I was like, ah, I have an inside lane here because I know she's visualizing. What if we change it to imagery and get her to literally recreate perfect repetitions so that when she gets there, just as the Black Mamba himself, kobe Bryant, would he had an out for every single situation in basketball? And guess what? Basketball has a lot more variables than you. Walking up to one bar, it's you and the bar. There's nothing else in your way. There's no like some dog coming in and like trying to keep the bar down or knock it out of your hands when you throw it. No, it's you in the fucking bar. So all you have to do is walk up there and you can. The beautiful thing about imagery is that you can practice this time and time again in perfection before the actual competition, so that when you get there, it's just like oh, I've been here before, because your body doesn't know the difference between past, present and future.

Speaker 1: 49:18

Yes.

Speaker 2: 49:19

Bingo Right there.

Speaker 1: 49:21

And I do think you know in the whole like if you look at the competition as a whole, so the few little hiccups and the curveballs that were thrown because you said you know it's just you and the bar and there's no dog coming jumping out or there's no one tackling you, but there are such things as referees who throw the curveball at you it would be like the referee tackled you because they put you totally out of what you thought was going to happen, so they just rocked you right. But she did come back and she got the second clean and jerk and so all in all she did display a much, I would say, calmer and like inner fortitude. I could see that she knew that at the curveballs she was going to get that next lift, whereas in the past I could sense and see that self-doubt creeping in each time the curve ball was thrown. So your work with her certainly made a difference.

Speaker 2: 50:32

Thank you.

Speaker 2: 50:32

Thank you Like. That's the power of connecting to oneself, that's the resiliency. So when I was talking about the abcs, that's that c, that's that create confidence because, like effective leaders, successful connectors, successful people, in relating to others first, are successful in relating to themselves. They have the resiliency to know okay, I screwed up, bounce back time. The ones that bounce the resiliency to overcome adversity, and overcome because outside we're not the uncontrollables. You know the referee is an uncontrollable.

Speaker 2: 51:10

You hope I heard this from I think it was Duke Ellington. It's like my job is to create music from the soul and if people happen to like it, I'm lucky. You know, and that's similar to the lifter their job is to get under that bar as fast as they fucking can. And if the three judges go, good lucky day, you know, if you did everything that you possibly can and you still get a bad call, it's time to go cool, breath back on and bounce Right, cause you only have five minutes max. Uh, being able to rebound and MMA. It's even worse. It's like you've got one minute to get. You just got a snot pounded out of you. You have one minute to go, gather your thoughts and come back and get your snot pounded out of you again, right, so think about that.

Speaker 1: 51:57

In all instances, when we talk about connection, what is one thing that you think connection is reliant on Having that close connection. What is one thing that you think um is that a cornerstone of that, like one element that leads to a great connection.

Speaker 2: 52:20

That can't be cheated yeah, um, it's kind of one element small rocks move mountains. The connection is the mountain right. Doing all the little things right, like I've walked you through, like what you've highlighted is, is a great example. You ask the questions, you know how to break the pattern, like you did with with Ruby right, her tendency to do this and then she didn't. Oh, perfect, well, that was largely because of you. Had you not asked the question, had you not had the audacity to break that pattern, the confidence to do so. That's the C. And you simplified. You just got them focused on the one thing.

Speaker 2: 53:03

So, if anybody that's listening to this wants to be better at connecting with first themselves, others and nature, it's small rocks move mountains, the little things, the things that are seemingly oh yeah, of course, do you, do you actually do those things? Those are the things that are actually going to add up to push you over the line or get that ideal relationship in your life, to break out that business, to break past that glass ceiling that you've been capped at, whatever it is to get more clients to like, whatever it is for you for connection. Maybe it's just finding out what your true purpose is in life. A lot of people are floating around. I call them driftwood. They're floating down the river doing the thing, and if they took the time to stop and actually think what do I really want? They would be able to look at those small rocks that aren't moving the needle per towards moving the mountain right. I think that that's the real key.

Speaker 1: 54:13

And also to move the small rocks and you just said the word takes time. So to build meaningful connections, then you get to be patient. You get to be patient because good connections take time and they take all of those small rocks. You know, moving those small rocks or building that foundation takes time. There's no way to cheat time. So, for example, I think when I met you, it was oh, I think it was the beginning of 2023, it yeah, end end of 22, end of 22, 22, early to 23 and so the one thing that really impressed me about your ability to connect was taking the time to get to, to get to know the person.

Speaker 1: 55:09

There's so many people that you meet that you jump people try and jump straight to what they're trying to sell to that person or whatever it is convert that person to, or you know, they go straight into the professional relationship and they skip all of the what I consider the most important things. Asking the questions, finding out who is Leanne, what's your background, what do you like, what don't you like, you know what makes you laugh. You know all of those small things make a massive difference. And then so we built that relationship and our relationship was based primarily on music and I remember the first time you sent me a voice note about how the music relates to the chakras and you said in your Canadian voice and I kept that and I played it to so many people. I said listen to this. This is so cool because you very succinctly said you know all the different frequencies and the chakras and how it all tied together. And I think you did that in like a minute and a half voice message.

Speaker 2: 56:20

Like. Wow, it must have been, because it was probably an Instagram. I probably had a minute.

Speaker 1: 56:24

It was an Instagram voice message and this is amazing how you can very easily explain that in such a powerful way. Well, that was a big sort of like that was moving a rock for me For sure. And then the other key moment, and so then we came up with the idea of your Australian trip, and that's where it really snowballed into the mountain. But you think about that? That's almost 12 months of connection.

Speaker 2: 56:52

First, At least at least Right, and it's still. It's still a tweak. Like they have a saying in, employment is like slow to hire, quick to fire, right, that applies to relationships. You here's, here's a way to put it together. For people still paying attention to this whole thing is if you're running a business and you're charging X amount of dollars let's say 5K for whatever your offer is, is that 5K, at the end of the day, really going to change your life? Maybe not 5K, that's gone like this right. The amount of value that that person on the other side of the table gets for 5k, though, is that going to radically change their life? The answer is astounding. Yes, 100%, it can. So who's auditioning for who? So those people that are so quick to like, yeah, gonna work with me, they're missing the whole situation and the problem. Those two pieces tell you if you even want to work with these people, if you even and that's only in business, but this also applies in relationships If you even want to go on a date with another person, does.

Speaker 2: 58:02

Does dating work like this? Folks Like here's my billboard Sign here, like no, you want to go out, you want to get to know the person You're not here to you're not getting married in two days no, unless that's your thing. But that doesn't typically work out in the long run. You know what I mean. So relationships take a lot of time and development and it's like a flower that's blooming. You get seasons with it and you get to watch that whole caterpillar come out of the cocoon moment and you get to watch and really enjoy and grow. That's why it's very important for me with all the relationships that I truly authentically want to be reciprocated in value, right Like I really want to be able to benefit that person's life.

Speaker 2: 58:49

If it is a working relationship, I've got to know that I'm literally the best person in the world for that person. Otherwise I'm likely referring it out, and I've done that countless times. There's oftentimes where I sit down. I'm like that sounds awesome for like three years from now. We can, but I've definitely got another person that's going to be a better fit for you right now, and that is that's. That's the way it works. It is because there's no scarcity. There's like we're very abundant. There's what eight billion people in this world yes, a lot, lots of opportunity out there for.

Speaker 1: 59:22

For somebody that you can work with, you don't have to be afraid and I think you just hit the nail on the head because in the word, in you know, in that term, um, that concept of abundance, because there is plenty of people, things, people and things to go around the whole world. And I'm thinking about the audience of some, a lot of the coaches that are listening strength coaches, olympic weightlifting coaches, powerlifting coaches. There is a reason why you know that the people that come to me to be coached, the types of people that come to me to be coached, come to me because I have, like I can help anyone, but it's who can I help the most, that I can give the most value to, and understanding the type of person that I can help the most. Like, yeah, I could help anyone become a great lifter, but for me, if the connections, if the connections not there, that the values and the connection is not there, then I would much prefer that that lifter goes to someone else. And let's get it right.

Speaker 1: 1:00:33

There's many people that are interested in strength, becoming stronger, but what are their values in that process? When you're a coach? Think about, you know, are they getting into strength training because they want to look better, you know? Do they want their muscles bigger and do they love that whole vibe of going into a gym with like rah-rah music and like let's go bro, and you know the bro. That's not my vibe, right, and that's not a bad I'm not saying that's a bad thing as a strength coach but that's not my vibe. My vibe is more the person who wants to develop themselves while they're developing their strength and it's like, look, let's say that's why I coach a lot of people who are 40 to 70 plus years old and a lot of people who are, let's go, eight to about 20 years old. Because that's the. Those eight to 20 year olds are developing themselves as people and are very open to um, they're still not sure where they, where they fit in the world. So that's my nurturing coming out okay. So I'm giving them the best start that they can into the strength world as their physical body, but also their mind.

Speaker 1: 1:02:02

And then the 40-year-olds have gone through the whole let's go bro, rah, rah music period. You know they've been through that and they're more like okay, I'm here to make the rest of my life the best quality it can be. I want to live for as long as I can with the best quality of life and I'm here because I want to make myself a better person, so you need to. This is what I said at the start. You need to. This is what I said at the start. You need to understand yourself. You need to connect with yourself before you can be a great connector with other people, and I understand that. I don't like coaching the rah-rahs.

Speaker 2: 1:02:40

And if you didn't ask yourself those questions, you would never know and you'd still be working with them, right, and you'd be hating, exactly. I'll be extremely frustrated, exactly. You grow resentful to the industry, likely, and then all the other people that you know. You'd find all the holes and then you become a bitter person. This happens so often in the fitness industry because we don't actually understand ourselves. How the fuck can you communicate a message to somebody else if you don't even know how to communicate it to yourself? I just don't get that People don't think about it.

Speaker 1: 1:03:14

There's people that thrive on that whole. Yeah, let's go slapping on the back and all that stuff and great, that's great. That's where they are in their fitness strength journey. But I know that I'm not that person. If I started slapping people on the back and screaming at them, I'd likely start laughing.

Speaker 2: 1:03:35

I don't know how are you going. Who are you? Who are you?

Speaker 1: 1:03:40

So, yeah, thank you. This conversation has been great in understanding. You know the ABCs of connections the one, two, three of this series of connection and leading into the next episode, we were going to be talking more about community and how I've developed the whole community of connection, because today we've been discussing how we've developed connection more one-on-one with people, like that individual connection, of course. Yeah, so for my audience, if you haven't come across Mike yet and I'm pretty sure that most of the people that are listening and I'm pretty sure that most of the people that are listening pretty sure have heard me at least talk about you in a previous podcast or have, because they know me have known the impact that Mike has had in my life because of his ability to connect. So, mike, what else do you have where people can go and access your brilliance with connection, because we all need connection.

Speaker 2: 1:04:57

I appreciate that Right now, best place to find me is mikedropca. Mike, with a K-E like my name M-I-K-E-D-R-O-Pca Got lots of free resources up there, the book being one of them. You can just get it so you can work through. I send a bunch of really great emails that help you along the journey with. You know, you don't just get this book, you get all the steps that tie it all together. And then I'm up on Substack. I'll make sure everything I do your podcast, so I'll make sure everything's up in the show notes. I do a. I do a bunch of free stuff because I really do believe that one of the biggest obstacles to people learning is is cost, and I want to make sure that this shit is accessible for everybody so that they don't have that excuse on the board to be poor at people skills. But yes, I've got lots of ways. We'll make sure you get it, mikedropca.

Speaker 1: 1:05:57

Fantastic, and that's a great place to end.

Speaker 2: 1:06:01

Thank you so much.

Speaker 1: 1:06:02

Thank you Bye.