Dynamic Life Cycles
Life with Ash Kelly
After finishing up with Steed Cycles, I knew I wanted to continue in the podcast world with my own show. Three months down the road, after a wild start to summer in a new job with Norco and a super fun trip to France with the Cook Book Co, everything is starting to settle, and now it's time to dive back in!
Join me as I kick off Dynamic Life Cycles with an engaging chat with Ash Kelly. She is one of my amazing friends and was the perfect guest, with her rich background in radio, shares her journey from the newsroom to the bike shop, and together, we explore my exciting shift from Steed to Norco.
This episode is not just a reintroduction; it's a fresh start filled with the promise of conversations that go beyond cycling to touch on community and more.
Thank you for listening
- Get in touch via my Instagram
- Hosted and Produced by Jarrad Connolly
After finishing up with Steed Cycles, I knew I wanted to continue in the podcast world with my own show. Three months down the road, after a wild start to summer in a new job with Norco and a super fun trip to France with the Cook Book Co, everything is starting to settle, and now it's time to dive back in!
Join me as I kick off Dynamic Life Cycles with an engaging chat with Ash Kelly. She is one of my amazing friends and was the perfect guest, with her rich background in radio, shares her journey from the newsroom to the bike shop, and together, we explore my exciting shift from Steed to Norco.
This episode is not just a reintroduction; it's a fresh start filled with the promise of conversations that go beyond cycling to touch on community and more.
Thank you for listening
- Get in touch via my Instagram
- Hosted and Produced by Jarrad Connolly
All right. So here for the first episode of Dynamic Life Cycles. It's been a bit of a long time coming, moved out of Steed or stopped working for Steed, I should say end of March, started working over at Norco, obviously beginning of April and then from that point it was sort of a bit of a goal of mine to get the podcast set up, get into a nice space with it, be able to have a video con uh side of things and then also from that point, just have some different guests on that. Aren't always perfectly involved in the cycling industry, um, which I was somewhat limited to with with steed and not to say that that was a bad thing, because it allowed me to build up quite a good sort of reputation and ability and learnt a lot from that. But now being able to be out on my own doing my own thing, I think it's going to be pretty cool and pretty interesting.
Jarrad Connolly:Who I can get, who we can see. So this first episode was a bit of an icebreaker for myself. I had Ash Kelly o n. That allowed me to be able to get in. I know she's a great girl. She has lots of opinions, as you'll hear and see, and then from that point sort of explained a bit more about why I moved and what the reasoning behind that was. The other really cool thing is if you're able to share, get behind it, put it out there, I think, the more we can get people around. This bit of a community always welcome any suggestions. I'm still new to the whole media world. I don't have any media training, so it's all self-taught. So if you have any suggestions of what I can do better or how I can do it better, always open ears, and same thing with guests. If you know anybody or could recommend anybody that wants to come on or you think of someone that you would like to hear from, definitely reach out and let me know, because I'd be interested to chat to them.
Jarrad Connolly:But, yeah, I'll leave it with that and uh hope you enjoy the listen and come back next time.
Jarrad Connolly:All right, Ash, how are you?
Ash Kelly:Oh, my goodness, good Time's flying. I can't believe it's like. It's like solstice, it's June.
Ash Kelly:Yeah, it's going to be summer, I know.
Ash Kelly:, it's like at this point in the bike industry I don't know how it is for you I'm like no, no, it's been summer since February. Yeah, but also it's not even yet summer.
Jarrad Connolly:It's it's so weird because, like, there's so much that's changed this year, obviously, and the whole reason of us doing this, um, but yeah, it's been in fast forward the first six months of the year is insane yeah, so yeah, yeah, big changes.
Ash Kelly:It's good to see you yeah, you too it's fun sharing this podcast thing we do now.
Jarrad Connolly:Yeah, yeah, I'm stoked, like you took over the steed one after I left there. Yeah, um, and for those that don't know, that are clicking on this for the first time and finding out about myself and also about ash is I worked for steed for a long time and did the podcast there, and now ash has taken over that and I've moved over to norco.
Ash Kelly:Um, and yeah, so that's where the podcast world comes together yep, we've podcasted many times before now and you can find those all at the steed podcast which I am now hosting which. I really. Actually this is something I like about podcast communities is that sort of shared space, like you can do these, like oh, let's do an episode together about this, but we can continue the conversation on my show, or you know, there's like endless, boundless, there's no boundaries.
Ash Kelly:It's boundless you can do whatever you want, and so it's neat to share that space with you.
Jarrad Connolly:Yeah, and you can do whatever you want, and so it's neat to share that space with you. Yeah, and I kind of the way I describe it to people, because a lot of people have asked why I enjoy doing it or why I enjoy podcasts, and the best way I can describe it to people is it's the new version of talkback radio.
Jarrad Connolly:It's essentially talkback radio on demand yeah and if you think of, like the movie world or the, whatever, the Hollywood is essentially now all on demand, like in netflix, disney, whatever, you know, all of those different streaming companies are all on demand. And now, I guess not that podcasts are new by any means, but they're sort of come around to that point. Yeah, and you know it always surprises me.
Ash Kelly:I still meet people who are like oh, I don't really listen to podcasts and you know when something's like out of your um field of relatability out of your awareness, like well, there's still people out there that don't listen to podcasts because, um, I remember the very like for people who don't know some of my background. I was in radio. I worked at cbc radio for um more than four years and then I worked at news 11 30 as a morning reporter in like live on air um, pretty hard, fast-paced radio too, and news, hard-hitting news kind of stuff usually and um, I got to dabble in podcasting, um as a as a radio producer and journalist.
Ash Kelly:That was sort of a casual float position that I did at cbc and then I made my own podcast as sort of like. I ended up on this bit of like a social justice mission after I walked away from reporting and ended up making my own podcast on chronic illness and systemic issues in our healthcare system for people with long-term chronic illness. And now being back in the bike world where I get to take things a lot less seriously yeah, it is. It's like. Actually I love, it's a blessing to have these conversations in this like loose format and talk about bikes and just our community and like what goodness?
Jarrad Connolly:yeah, that's such easy conversation too. So, um, and I think that's like the whole point and topic of of what I want to achieve out of the podcast world, and like what I did with the steed podcast, and now what I want to achieve out of the podcast world and like what I did with the steed podcast, and now what I plan to do in the future, is just like get people on, like yourself, um, to talk a bit about their story, a bit about what's happening, um, from my point of view as well, and and things like that. Like, um, I don't know if you saw it today yet, but like Steve Vanderhoek's new edit no, I didn't see it yet or you have to watch it.
Jarrad Connolly:It is mind-blowing. Like, obviously we all know Steve is an absolute beast when it comes to any of that type of writing or obstacles. But when he went down to Utah, like with Jeff Livingston and Kelsey and a few others, um, and I was actually talking to Steve about it today and it was sort of like yeah, just crazy, but getting someone like him back on and and chatting to him about his sort of opinions and ideas and, um, we were actually talking about Rampage because he was at one of the old rampage sites I guess I don't even know which year it was, but um, one of those sites and he was talking about how big some of the obstacles are and how it's sort of like they're just putting their life on the line but like complete side topic there.
Jarrad Connolly:But it's like just getting different stories like that out. And it's so easy to do that when you're just talking over time and there's no sort of restriction to what you're saying.
Ash Kelly:Yeah, no restrictions is neat, cause I mean doing the podcast is neat because I have, as you know, it's sort of free reign, right you? Get to make it what you want it to be. Um, and I've said things on the podcast, on the steed podcast, where I'm like Kim's going to kill me, I can't say that we sell those bikes, yeah, um, but actually he he's, you know, never said a word.
Ash Kelly:he really does love it let us have our space and and have free speech. Whoa, I guess really we have some, some free reign there and so, but you have, this is gonna be like wide open. So I am curious like can we swear? Are we allowed to be controversial?
Jarrad Connolly:anything you want are you gonna be pressing Anything you want.
Ash Kelly:Are you going to be pressing buttons? Are you going to go into shock style radio?
Jarrad Connolly:No, no, I'll leave that to the Mahalo. My Dude guys, yeah.
Ash Kelly:What are they?
Jarrad Connolly:IHFT or something IFHT yeah, I always get it mixed up. But, I'll leave that to those guys. They do a good job of it, but I don't have that cheesy comedy bone. I don't think.
Ash Kelly:But you know what, like no shade being thrown when I say this, I'll just say it's not for everyone, right? Like maybe someone's going to think you're funny, jared.
Jarrad Connolly:Maybe Some people do.
Ash Kelly:I think there's a lot of people that think I'm funny, and I really appreciate it because I also think I'm funny. Um, and I have a partner who, deadpan, is like good god, girl, you are not funny. And I'm like, oh my god, and I'm like, this person loves me more than anyone in the world does not think I'm funny. So I think it's marvelous that they can love me, even without getting to experience my, my brilliant sense of humor, which I thought was my shining beacon.
Jarrad Connolly:Yeah, I can kind of understand him. I'm going to side with him on that one. You are funny, but not as funny as others.
Ash Kelly:I love it. I love it. I'm going to get my own podcast. Be funny.
Jarrad Connolly:Yeah, no.
Ash Kelly:It's interesting too, because sometimes one of the topics you and I end up talking about is like women's cycling spaces and and and what's going on there, and I try to keep a finger on the pulse as much as I can, um and uh. One thing I really do enjoy about a good women's bike festival or being around women for the day, is like the goofiness, like how goofy and hilarious we can be.
Ash Kelly:We will laugh till we pee our pants and that is a little difference, like the the edges off when you're not around um your partners and other men or you know there's all sorts of reasons to feel those like dynamics and people have different experiences of, of sharing the trails and stuff with, with men, um. But when it is just like a ladies' rip and it's some of your good old girls and you're having a laugh like that is pretty special. My ladies think I'm funny and that's all I need.
Jarrad Connolly:Yeah, and I think when you get a good group vibing together and I've done lots of coaching with just women's only groups, I've done rides with all sorts of different women and you're right like it's definitely a different vibe that when it, when there is even just one woman in the group versus all guys, it's there seems to be a little bit more of a relaxed attitude and a little bit more yeah, I don't even know how else to explain it other than a bit more relaxed, a little bit, more laid back and there's less sort of arm wrestling and measuring of each other and things like that.
Jarrad Connolly:But it's, it's kind of fun and I do enjoy that and um, that is definitely something. Another topic that I want to get into is um, and we can jump into. It is like women in cycling at the moment. Like obviously last year with rampage just like went crazy. They were sort of talking about well, there was a lot of rumors about women being in rampage last year. Didn't happen, obviously. Uh, hardline now have women in it as competitors. I think last year they had a few women like test riding the course, I think like this year.
Ash Kelly:Um, it was sort of the same right the. I think there's a rule that says anyone who rides the course top to bottom can absolutely can yeah be? There for competition day and um, uh, I do think some of it, like some people, some women, had ridden it top to bottom. Though don't quote me on that because I'm not watching qualifying, but I think the choices were made by individuals that were just like you know sick to be here, not racing, and that is something everyone who competes gets the opportunity to make.
Ash Kelly:That choice Sick to be here, not racing. And those choices were made. There's not like a women's category set aside yet at hardline, and I think that uh, this year there was no, I mean, maybe I'm wrong, but I thought there was two and um. I was corrected. Uh, while it was like playing live the event and um, I think that they were just riding ahead of the event and not actually competing, because we did like.
Ash Kelly:I watched hardline and I was like, where where's hannah? I thought um, I thought I thought they were racing, but as far as I understood it it was. They were pre-riding but not racing um, let's just check it because I want to know, because, like I'm going off secondhand information, even though I was like watching it while I was cleaning the house, and you know it's, it's hard for me these days to sit down and watch a whole darn race. It's like hours of your life.
Jarrad Connolly:Yeah, exactly, I like to multitask.
Ash Kelly:I keep falling asleep during the World Cups.
Jarrad Connolly:Yeah, but they go on forever.
Ash Kelly:It's like three hours or more, four hours.
Jarrad Connolly:A little hard line results, here we go um where's gracie?
Ash Kelly:because gracie did it. Gracie did a top to bottom yeah oh, you're right. I don't think she got a timed run.
Jarrad Connolly:I thought they did. But yeah, there you go. It doesn't look like it. Looking at pink back here, she's not on that, okay.
Ash Kelly:But like.
Jarrad Connolly:Maybe it was a bit of more like an exhibition type thing.
Ash Kelly:You know, I guess this for me this is the tough part with women's free ride still is like where I'm getting most of my information is on instagram or like you know, like there's um I, I don't know where to go to get I don't know news that's like I guess we could go to pink bike. I just don't tend to go over to pink bike anymore sorry, could go to vinyl.
Jarrad Connolly:I could go to single tracks. So, uh, there was a women's division. Okay, so both Gracie and Louise Ferguson had timed runs in Tasmania. And then there was no women that actually raced in.
Ash Kelly:Wales. I was thinking specifically of Wales because, I remember in Tasmania as well.
Jarrad Connolly:And yeah, thinking specifically of Wales.
Ash Kelly:Big year either way and we have gone from like um you know, I think we said on the steed podcast, I was all riled up the first time you had me on. I was like I just heard the rebel said yeah that women are never gonna be in rampage, and it is. It was outrageous because yeah, it's like I don't know.
Ash Kelly:You don't know the future and they whoever said never was wrong right yeah, and we've seen that big shift, so that was that's been such a big win and it's been really heartwarming to um just to watch the women who did that work, like katie holden and rebecca rush get just get the love and appreciation, um for the work that they did to to make this happen and casey brown, and like there was a really core group, I think, sitting down and negotiating and yeah, and doing the massaging um with corporate um.
Ash Kelly:And it was really neat for me because I, you know, I often get this question which is, like you know Katie Holden right, and I'm like, no, no, I don't know Katie Holden, but we have a lot of mutual friends from the Pacific Northwest scene and so I do get that question a lot um, but I finally met Katie at Ride.
Ash Kelly:Lab yeah, at the in May, and um it was. I didn't just get to meet Katie like, I got to share a campground with her and I remember laying there one night thinking like you know, two days ago I didn't know Katie Holden and now her she's keeping me awake with her snoring like now.
Ash Kelly:I know Katie Holden no better than most yeah, like we would like, you know, we could fart and wake each other up. We were so close in our tents. It was very cool. Um, I got to sit and have breakfast with her and I remember we were eating these crepes from the food truck and it was myself and katie and deborah denipoli and um, deborah said like, oh, you know, I realize now it's been like a year since you broke your neck because you, you were here the week before you broke your neck.
Ash Kelly:Yeah, we're here again this year and I was like I choked on my crepe and I was like I hadn't realized that yet, like I am realizing that now that you say that and I just burst into tears and I was like I remember what I said. I let my feelings flow for a while and I was like, yeah, now I've cried over crepes at breakfast with Katie Holden and so, you know, I've always wanted to know her and I understand now that to know Katie is to love her. She's just a bundle of precious love and joy and it was really cool to see her get some positive comeuppance there.
Jarrad Connolly:Yeah, yeah, definitely, and I think like it'd be really interesting to see her get some positive comeuppance there. Yeah, yeah, definitely, and I think like it'd be really interesting to see what the girls do with that space. I don't know the full ins and outs of, like, what they're going to do. Schedule wise, I heard that it was over two days and then it's like the first day is at women's and then the second day is men's.
Ash Kelly:All I know is two days. That's what I heard. I don't read articles anymore, just the headlines for shame, for shame.
Jarrad Connolly:Yeah, all the clickbait yeah, okay, news scrolling, I can't believe I'm that person but a question question that was asked to me a while ago and I didn't really know how to answer. It was it's amazing that women are doing what they're doing in sport now, but if we went back 10, 15 years ago, would it have been the right place for women to be in, like mountain biking or in the sense of like? I think, think about all of the old stories and you you think about like names of trails and you think about names of bikes, like there was, you think of some of the names on the side of Cove bikes.
Ash Kelly:Ah, so like was it an okay space for women?
Jarrad Connolly:Yeah, was it a respectful space for them to be in, and has it taken this time for the sport to sort of I don't want to say grow up, but almost mature and become a respectful space for them women to be able to do that? No, or? Is is it and this is where my brain sort of went is it that the women are coming in and changing the sport to be that respectful place?
Ash Kelly:yeah, we've always been there and sure, there haven't always been as many of us, but there haven't always been as many of us. But there also haven't always been as many mountain bikers.
Jarrad Connolly:That's true.
Ash Kelly:Like I remember going to the, we'd never see a fucking lineup at the Whistler Bike Park when I started riding there yeah. And still I rode with women. We were there. I don't know what the ratio was, I don't know how that ratio's changed, but I know, like what you said, like when you I can't remember we were on tape when we said this, but you know coaching and stuff you have one woman show up and that whole vibration changes right um, because literally a different vibration just showed up, a feminine vibration just walked into the room.
Ash Kelly:So when we add, I think, that feminine vibration to the industry, which is the work that we as women have been doing for decades now, literally I have been riding for almost, I have been riding for 20 years, yeah, mountain biking, and that means that katrina strand and claire bouchard and these women who came before me have been riding for three decades um, and we look at betty and we look at like decades and decades and decades of foundation and vibration changing has been, that work has been laid out. I think that, and Katie and Casey showing up and building at Rampage, the women show up and the vibration changes. Whatever fear of change there was ahead of a woman showing up in a space starts to dissolve, and I think you know you look at, when I came into the steed bike shop, I wasn't the first woman of change there was ahead of a woman showing up in a space starts to dissolve and I think you know.
Ash Kelly:You look at, when I came into the steed bike shop, I wasn't the first woman. There was one before me and I can't remember her name. Tony told me all about her, um, but there was a trepidation before I came in, like you know. There was a sort of warning given out to the team like hey, keep it clean, keep it cool, be respectful. We got a lady here now and then I walked in and I was fully myself and vulnerable and that means that I'm a crass bitch and I said whatever and had everyone stumbling over my you know, just how awfully crass I can be Not anything like in Australia.
Jarrad Connolly:No, but like crass, for Canadians.
Ash Kelly:Definitely a blue collar girl, and you know that fear went away and then it.
Ash Kelly:now there's a space and a shared vulnerability where you can get to know me and then I'm not like a threat that's going to come in and ruin the boys club, right and so probably the industry and the slope style scene and they're probably not racing because it's segregated and yeah it's always had a category, but still in the race scene, still right like hard lines of race, whatever, and um that, yeah, I think that work has been done by women and allies and um that, and now we're seeing that work be done by non-binary and and different identifications of gender and sexuality as well as being done, and that foundation of work has strong roots in the women's movement. You know, um, when you look at what katie and rebecca have done down at rampage, and they've been inclusive of um lgbtq plus and so, so they're making space for those are coming after them too, and I think that's really neat. So, you know, I mean women were going to be in this sport, whether it was friendly to them or not. We got the, you know, we toughened up, we thickened our skin and we survived. And what's really neat now we, so we had, I think, a lot of us mountain bikers, and I think of Katrina and I think of Rebecca Rush and I think a lot of us who are tough right, like these tough lady personas, and I saw Katrina speaking as well at Ride Lab and I just was so struck by her softness and the love that she brought to the podium and how much she has shifted and changed in her femininity changed in her femininity, and how much.
Ash Kelly:Because we've created that vibration. Now for us to be there without all the posters and stuff on the wall that are maybe making us uncomfortable or feel objectified, without the marzocchi girls and the kokanee girls at crankworks, things have changed and it is a lot neater for us. We don't have to armor up, we don't have to be on guard. We get to be soft and vulnerable. Um, we get to make real connections and we get to break down the fear of what is that change going to look like when the inevitable happens and women show up at this event?
Jarrad Connolly:yeah, exactly, and I I kind of kind of think that it's and that's. I mean like I think it's the right time. Like people want women to be in, like the amount of guys that I knew or know I should say that wanted the women to be in. Like the amount of guys that I knew or know I should say that wanted the women to be in the event is insane. So it's sort of like and that's something like I I think it's not that it was never the right time, but I think now is that time where it's a group that is saying like yes, as a complete mountain bike community, versus just like one sort of small group over here saying hey, like invite us in. Like it's, it's not just that, it is everybody that's involved in that, and that's sort of the thing that blows me away and like even even the same.
Jarrad Connolly:I think back, like I started racing mountain bikes in 2006 and I would go to an event with 200 people and there'd be three ladies there, and it's sort of like it's definitely evolved.
Jarrad Connolly:But then now, living here in canada and understanding the snow side of things, I've also wondered whether, with the ski results starting to open up more and be like yes, you've had whistler for 25 years you've had big sorry, not big white um. Silver star has been around longer than that. I think they're almost at 30 years, um, but other than those handful of resorts, there are more and more resorts coming on because they can see the benefit of having mountain biking through the summer and I kind of wonder whether, like, opening that area up has also opened up doors to the like snow sport girls who I think in the snow sports females have been much more accepted for a longer period of time. And I just like it is kind of interesting hearing your opinion about it and I didn't even like, I didn't even think about, like Claire or Katrina or any of those and um, how long they'd been around for.
Ash Kelly:But it's sort of like the bigger group or the bigger community is, um is something that I wonder about as well yeah, I, when I, when I think about the women that came before me, I do think about, you know, choices that they had to make in their time because they existed in a reality where the kokanee girls were the norm and there is no shame in the work that they did and the advertising work that they did and the sponsorships that they got that had them in bikinis, you know, oiled up next to their big bombers beanies, you know, oiled up next to their big bombers, like I got nothing but love for everything.
Ash Kelly:Everyone did um to be a part of this and to make sure there were inroads and foundations laid and I don't think anyone does like we don't begrudge any of it, we all just existed through it and um, yeah, we're here now and there's great shit happening and we have that base of allies, like I think. Like you said, you know you look at it. I imagine a lot of the rampage men fought for women to ride next to them yeah, I know they did.
Ash Kelly:Yeah, I was gonna say like I'm sure some also don't agree, and that's fine. Like we all have a different experience in life to each their own, and I'm I think, I think good decisions were made yeah, I'd.
Jarrad Connolly:I'd be surprised if any of the current athletes riding in Rampage would have that opinion that they didn't think that because there's such a high respect level and as simple as looking at social media you can see I think pretty much everybody that competed last year was almost, uh, like what's the opposite to protesting um oh like for the event like yeah, yeah, yeah, totally they're for having women there and it's sort of like they're putting it out there yeah, I forgot, so I do remember that.
Jarrad Connolly:So I I, yeah, I could somewhat understand and I even know like talking to like the godfather and people like that.
Ash Kelly:He's even asking like why they're not involved and and things like that, and he's like the original rampage winner yeah, and you know, I wonder too, like I was last year when I thought it wasn't ever gonna happen, according to rampage or to red bullet, um, and there's just like there's. Yeah, like you said, the pendulum is gonna swing, and when it, I don't know. Probably when it transitions, there's some friction and a little bit of like whoa.
Jarrad Connolly:This is the process of change Like.
Ash Kelly:Change looks messy, change hurts. Change is weird. We're in it, we're doing it.
Ash Kelly:It's getting done. It's great, but it's. I love it now. Like I think I went through a period of where, like, as a rider who was excelling personally, in part because there was a lack of female field to pull from, I would get.
Ash Kelly:I was nervous that too many women would come and start getting faster than me, and the kids got faster than me really fast. And you know, I became an old lady and my ego got a lot smaller and I know I benefited from having a really small pool of women and I also, I, I just like I think we should all hold each other able. Um, I knew what events I could compete in and when not to go, and I was like I'm never going to the world cups. Um, one thing that was always really cool is watching world champs. When you watch the first few runs of world champs and you see really like people who just got enough points in their national series to get to champs, champs, yeah and that would have been me yeah like I probably could have scraped together enough points in elite racing downhill because there were few enough women to to compete with me.
Ash Kelly:That I would have done well yeah and I would have got to world champs and I would have fallen down the entire fucking four bill course or something right or monsena and like it would have kicked my ass. So hold people able to make their own decisions and compete where they're capable and where they're able and I think that's what's important is um holding these women as they go to rampage and hardline. They are able and capable to make decisions for themselves.
Jarrad Connolly:Don't worry about them yeah, yeah, I, I completely agree. And if they want to be there and they can perform, then then let them perform um talking about change this year. Tell me a bit about what you've been up to like. You went to the um ride lab stuff ride lab is good, yeah tell me a bit more about that but year two of ride lab, yeah.
Ash Kelly:So for me big changes this year full-time at steed yeah, everyone knows I'm not at dialed anymore. I love talking about this shit like it's just like insider baseball of the yeah, I'm like you know what full bench racing.
Ash Kelly:This is my life now yeah, I'm a professional bike mechanic. It is so fun um full-time at steed and it's like a neat little badge to wear, um, really, what a fulfilling opportunity. I had a guy lean in today and he's like, hey, you worked on my bike last week or a couple of weeks ago. And I'm like, oh no, you did a great job, great service.
Jarrad Connolly:Those loaded comments always scare me.
Ash Kelly:Did I work on it personally.
Jarrad Connolly:The amount of times that I had while I was on the sales floor manager there, and it was like one of the staff would come up to me or one of the customers would come over and they're like are you the manager? And I'm like yeah. And they're like, oh, such and such did this and it's so amazing, or this happened or that happened and it's so great. I'm like cool, could you rephrase that for me? Like, don't ever come up to a manager and be like are you the?
Ash Kelly:manager like it's so scary yeah we get enough complaints we do our damnedest. I love, I love it. It's been really satisfying. I'm starting to you know it's my third season, so I'm starting to learn. The regular like even your most regular customers, are only coming in every couple months, right.
Jarrad Connolly:Yeah, maybe like every month.
Ash Kelly:Yeah, and so faces and names are hard for me. I'm much better with bleeding bricks. I'm finally getting to really know people and like, hey, how was that race? And I know you were just off there. And how's that condo? In Hawaii You've been road riding on the big island like it's nice to give that to people and um, and then give them their bike back and be like enjoy kona you know, enjoy that road race, enjoy the trans rockies, and we have such cool people coming into the shop like that is.
Jarrad Connolly:That is one thing that Steed has built and sort of separated themselves from the rest of the cycling industry world, whatever you want to call it within even BC. It's just like that clientele is like so cool and not to take anything away from the other stores and I currently work at another store, but yeah, they are really cool, genuine fun people. And it's like that's what is fun with that. Yeah, oh yeah.
Ash Kelly:And we foster entitled shithead behavior as well.
Jarrad Connolly:Well, yeah, I can say that, because this is not the Steep Podcast.
Ash Kelly:There are a ton of entitled shitheads at every shop, but when you foster it, you encourage them to attend your store and it's my job to love them anyway. Actually, the thing is like it's my job to foster it. It's my job to ensure that they do feel entitled to demand anything they want, because at the end of the day, it reminds me of like I used to be a cook and I spent a bit of a summer working at Barefoot Bistro up in Whistler so I could ride bike park on the weekends and then also get my staging hours in and Barefoot.
Ash Kelly:B the weekends and then also get my staging hours in and um barefoot bistro was the tits. It was like top notch. Anything the customer wants, they ask for it, you go get it. It doesn't matter that we're in whistler, we will helicopter that in for you if you need it yeah and frequently flipping like ten thousand dollar tables, like what a restaurant to work in, and it reminds me of that at steed. Like you want that, we'll get it I get that for you, no problem.
Jarrad Connolly:Yeah, I will get that for you. You want this 18 000 bike in green.
Ash Kelly:It will happen racks and fenders put it on. Yeah, exactly yeah, no questions asked.
Jarrad Connolly:Yeah, and that's that's like such a good space to be in too, like yeah, um, and that's sort of yeah, it's so, so crazy. Just some of the requests you would get in there is pretty full on.
Ash Kelly:Yeah, and it's still not. You know it's still. We do some custom stuff. Sure, People think to ask us for custom builds and sometimes we get some incredible sales staff sitting down and doing the work to put a custom piece together. But it makes you realize what it takes to be a custom shop, because that's not necessarily what we're doing.
Ash Kelly:We're doing a high number of, like you know, frame up builds and custom work and, um, I thought that's what our clientele was really into, but it's not. It's there's some componentry shifts, but the it's just, it's not.
Jarrad Connolly:Yeah, it's, that's a different world, that that kind of but I think yeah, I, I think 99% of people and bike brands are now aligned on what they want on the bike and what's being specced on the bike and it's like I think back to when I first started racing mountain bikes.
Jarrad Connolly:And it's like you'd buy a downhill bike. You would change the tubes from being regular tubes to being downhill tubes. You'd put downhill tires on it, you'd put a chain guide on it, you'd put a set of handlebars that were wider than 690 on it. You know, I mean like you would buy a mountain bike and then you would change half the stop, half the spec on there and then, when they first started coming out with chain guides, everyone's like wow, like whatever brand is coming with this.
Jarrad Connolly:And then, all of a sudden, all the brands came with chain guides and then it was like even like dropper posts, like everyone would buy a bike, and then they'd buy a dropper post to go with the bike.
Ash Kelly:And now most of the bikes are yeah, if you need it, it comes with the bike yeah, like there's a thousand dollar.
Jarrad Connolly:Norco now that has a dropper drop a post on it you know, I mean like it's just what is set as the standard now, and it's, I think, even right through to that highest end bike. You can pretty much buy a bike that is ready to race the tour de france or ready to race a downhill world cup on the opposite end of the scale there yeah, and like that's the big thing, I think it doesn't surprise me that people are satisfied with the bikes that are on the market that are spec for oe.
Ash Kelly:What surprises me that is in our market, specifically on the shore, that we don't see. Like I know we have two-wheeled adventures and dialed and other people that are like on hand to be these artists in custom one-on-one experiences and maybe there's a high enough volume going through those places that I'm wrong about the percentage. I just had this perspective, which just is because I'm poor and I think everyone else is rich um that.
Ash Kelly:People are out there like I want, you know, the blingiest hubs, the bull, like we don't even we don't stock chris king in a ton of shops here so like, not even if you want to do a custom build with a chris king headset bottom bracket. You'd be looking at ordering parts and that kind of stuff still surprises me like, but it's hard.
Jarrad Connolly:It's so hard for shops to inventory. I kind of wonder if that's just the north shore vibe. I think like I don't see the north shore people as being the most blingiest people like um, the founder of norco came into the store the other day and he was wearing just a, a daggy old t-shirt, with a set of track pants and a set of new balances on and this is like one of the most wealthiest guys in bc, if not canada, and he's just like cruising around like sure, like he.
Jarrad Connolly:Just they don't have that, uh, and I sort of look at it as like the I don't even know the right word, but it's almost like your outdoor a terex jacket is your going out jacket? You know what I mean. It's not like your outdoor a Terex jacket is your going out jacket? You know what I mean. It's not like we're living in San Francisco or LA where everything has to be this super flashy, fashionable item, and I wonder whether that has anything to do with the way.
Ash Kelly:The bikes are flashy enough. Yeah, they are. The art Terex jacket embodied.
Jarrad Connolly:Yeah, I think if you went to Toronto, it'd be a different story because there's more fashion within that and you see that, with some of the staff that have come from Toronto and the way that they see the bikes and the way that they build their bikes and they've got custom bikes themselves versus you, look at someone like Kim Steed and he will literally take whatever bike it is off the floor and just ride it he doesn't need anything extra, as long as it works and it's practical and it does what he wants.
Jarrad Connolly:He doesn't care what it looks like I like it.
Ash Kelly:I mean like it would it also like it kills the shop if you're not modeled around it right for sure, like we have a model of efficiency in the shop where we're still just doing, we're working our hardest possible everything you can give in a day just to support the bikes we've sold, just to sales tune the bikes we're selling today. So I'm not asking for any more custom orders, but and you know, and it's um, but it's something to learn as a mechanic, right like. It's definitely a place I haven't hung out in.
Jarrad Connolly:When you're like specking custom builds constantly, there's a flow and a knowledge that you get of sourcing and yeah, and get your finger on how different parts link together, I think is a big thing and and understanding what works with different items that isn't meant to work, and and how you can manipulate what the textbook says. Right, I, I guess.
Ash Kelly:Yeah, so we have a mutual friend who works at Bellafix C to Skype and he found on Reddit this text sheet. Did anyone share this with you?
Jarrad Connolly:yet no.
Ash Kelly:It's a Google Doc locked and it's got all the pull ratios of like generations of derailers and shifters. Okay, and it's got all this cross ratios of like generations of derailers and shifters and it's got all this cross compatibility information for sheets and sheets and sheets and it is like it's not all perfect and correct like this is, you know someone's put this together. It may be like ai generated, like there's so much information in here so a select few of us have started sharing this little talk around and.
Ash Kelly:But you know it's funny because we don't as valuable as having all your pull ratios in one spaces and all this data to pull. Drivetrain compatibility information is um. You know, like the, the, the maximum differential range of an all-tagra gs. You know, 11 speed derailleur, this model is like a 16 tooth differential great to know. The amount of times I have to use is actually really irregular exactly to be honest, like it's, so it's worth its weight in gold, which is it weighs nothing because it's digital and that's actually that's.
Jarrad Connolly:That's about it, right, it's worth its weight in gold, yeah and yet it weighs nothing.
Ash Kelly:Yeah, what, that sounds like a riddle we'll'll come up with it.
Jarrad Connolly:Oh, I know what it is.
Ash Kelly:It's the Google Doc with the pull ratios.
Jarrad Connolly:Yeah.
Ash Kelly:But I don't remember how we got there. It's neat. You lose the like there is. This is a podcast I want to do. I want to have a round table of mechanics where we get this philosophical and deep about just like the importance of these google documents and, um, you know, preserving our knowledge. Now that we're losing, you know, certain generations of knowledge, and what is it like, especially with so few people coming into the trade, how are we going to?
Jarrad Connolly:you could look at it that way but with everything evolving to being electronic, you may be losing the mechanical adjustment knowledge, but you're gaining the electronic adjustment knowledge. So there's this shift. It's kind of like telling. It's the argument of like losing the ability to handwrite but then touch type what's more important. Well, I mean, like you see, like there's.
Ash Kelly:You know I don't believe electronic shifting is going to be on every bicycle, and again it gets so philosophical. So fast because, like what is a bicycle? What is a bicycle mechanic? Am I a mountain bike mechanic?
Jarrad Connolly:Yeah, am.
Ash Kelly:I an electronic shifter mechanic? No, I'm a bicycle mechanic. Yeah, am I an electronic shifter mechanic? No, I'm a bicycle mechanic. I have got to be able to knock out a square tape or bottom bracket, put it back in and and deal with all sorts of cables internal, external, all the old like, and I'm a new school mechanic like I can bleed brakes faster than most people can find a video to help them bleed brakes so but I cannot actually tune rim brakes here's.
Jarrad Connolly:Here's my opinion on it, and this. This is so good because we started talking about you loving how much you're being a full-time mechanic and now we're super deep in the mechanical chat. But my thought is, if you look at the automotive industry, there is specific transmission people. There's specific brake people. There's specific tire people.
Jarrad Connolly:There's specific everything yeah, well, like you don't take your car to get your winter tires put on at the mechanics, you take it to the tire place, you get your windscreen fixed at the windscreen place, you get your transmission serviced at the transmission place and there's like specific automatic people and things like that. So I think if you fast forward, maybe even up to 50 years into the future of the bike industry, I think that's where it will end up going in the sense of and I guess it's already happening- it has really right.
Jarrad Connolly:You look at. Let's take Dialed, for instance. Yes, he can work on road bikes, but he specifically draws towards a mountain bike and I would class him as like your mountain bike specific people. We've got Fluid Function and whoever else is like shock.
Ash Kelly:Only people like they don't service drive lines yeah, and you've got your e-bike stores and you've got. You're like, you know, when I see a certain era of commuter, I go, hey, I think you should go to mec because I think the value is going to be at that shop for you. Um or you should check out our community bikes because, in terms of parts and inventory, they're most likely to be able to find you an extra yeah, exactly right it's.
Jarrad Connolly:It's like saying you're not going to take your ferrari to mr lube, to get a service done it's.
Ash Kelly:That's just not how that works, but you might take your ford fiesta and, and you know what is so great about like for me a good shop and I get to be in one of them right now is like I look up and I'm like boom Bridget is good at X, y and Z, the best at W, and like Tony is good at A, b and C, yeah, and Joe is good at X, y, and you're like you know what your people are good at.
Jarrad Connolly:But that's part of building a good team Hard to do.
Ash Kelly:Very hard to do. Very hard to do because right now most shops will take anything they can get if you send us mechanics.
Jarrad Connolly:Yeah, yeah, and that's the thing is like there's a lot, a lot of regulation that needs to almost be put in place for it to become specific yeah, that's a whole other day of talking nope denied, yeah, not Um.
Ash Kelly:can I ask?
Jarrad Connolly:you a question.
Ash Kelly:Yeah, was it like to be on the like on the other side, like at Norco.
Jarrad Connolly:So, um, I sort of touched on it briefly at the beginning, but, um, for those that don't know, as I say, I used to work for Steed. I was there for just over five and a half years and essentially just reached the ceiling within my career there, I guess without kim or steve, so kim being the owner, steve being the general manager, without them moving on, and it was very unlikely either of them were going to do that being that, kim has been there since day one as the owner, and that's 97 he started, and Steve's been there for, I want to say, a good 20 something years, almost 25 years. Um, so, without either of them moving on, there was sort of nowhere for me to move up. Um, and that was essentially the whole reason for moving out was it was just at that point where I wanted to continue to learn and move up, but I was kind of stuck. And then, from that point, opportunity at Norco came up, so working for Norco North Shore, who is a corporately owned store by Norco, and Live2Play if anyone knows who Live2Play is to be their store manager, and from that point there's opportunity to then move into headquarters. So the ceiling goes from essentially being a privately owned store to working beside, and I've had multiple people in the store working with me, from the global sales manager at Norco, the global marketing manager consistently on emails with all of these different people, on Zoom calls with these different people.
Jarrad Connolly:So my ceiling has now gone from being, as I say, sort of a privately owned store within North Vancouver to a global level within Norco, and that was such a draw card to go there. And even right down to only a couple of weeks ago I got sent at the store probably about six or seven fox helmets that then had to be shipped from the store out through to to whoever to paint red bull helmets, and just a very different dynamic within what my role and my day-to-day duties are. So it's sort of seeing a bit of the behind the scenes, having that access to talk to different people within the industry, that when you're in a privately owned store you kind of get a bit of a closed door to, um, even though at steed you do see a lot of things before it happens publicly. But then there's that next level of from being in a private store, as I say, to being in that corporately owned store and um, just yeah, just seeing things before they happen, is kind of really cool to see for myself, and my ultimate goal is to eventually be in one of those global positions, whether it be in the sales or the marketing side of things, um, to help influence the, the whole industry. I guess is is my ultimate goal is to be up in that area, so to have the opportunity to literally be working beside and actually delegating tasks to the global sales manager of Norco, like that's really cool in my eyes. So that's kind of, I guess, where I'm at.
Jarrad Connolly:And then, in the sense of the store, there's a lot of change that's happened there. So the store was formerly John Henry Bikes, who was, I would have to say, one of the biggest, if not the biggest stores in town for a very, very long time, and unfortunately there was some financial stuff that went down, and that was probably 10 to 15 years ago, I think, give or take. And that's when Norco stepped in to to help out and from that point, yeah, the store sort of had some very strange waves go through it and it's no secret, like there was some bad people in there, there was some good people in there and, um, about 12 months ago, norco sort of I don't even know how the right way is to say it but changed what was happening in there, I guess, is the politically correct way to say it. And then, yeah, two months ago, they brought myself on to to help step that game up even further to what they were trying to achieve and essentially build out another store that gives very good customer service, gives that same vibe that steed has now built and taken over. And without saying that I'm trying to recreate a new steed, because I'm not, there is like that emphasis of like okay, steed is doing it the best right now and that's, there's no questions there. It's like, okay, what can we draw from from these different areas? How do we draw from these different areas and go from there? So, going back to what you're saying about the different people in the team of like this person does this well, this person does this well, this person does this well is that's what we're looking at now?
Jarrad Connolly:So, like our staff in there, uh, is really good. There's only 12, 12 staff members in the whole store, which is kind of very different from coming from Steve. That's a powerhouse with 50 staff members. So, like, my daily tasks went from managing people and customer expectations to everything from being the person that opens the cash register in the morning right through to selling the bikes, right through to helping build the bikes, right through to ordering the bikes, right through to receiving the bikes. Literally 90 of the tasks are done with a shared hat, I guess because of the, the level of staff we have and the way the staff are. Um, we have some very good mechanics. We got two brazilians in there that are excellent suspension techs completely rebuild suspension. So that's an avenue we're starting to to build out and get the correct suspension tools and have the backing of corporate to to help build that out, which is kind of good. Um, and then the other side of it is building that sales floor out. So when people do come to town that are outside, so whether they're from another supplier around the world or whoever it may be that's coming to visit Norco, the the head people at Norco can bring them to our store and and go from there.
Jarrad Connolly:And something that I'm currently working on is how to build out a sort of a booking system within a storefront for demos. So there's lots of different apps out there and just working on what works best for what we want to achieve and how we want to achieve that. So like that's another thing of just like okay, a bit of like a trial store or a concept store in that matter, and proof of concept, I guess, is the right word there. So it's kind of like okay, does this marketing work in our store? Okay, this can go out to our private dealers and private owners and say, hey, like we did this in our store, this may work for you guys if you like it.
Jarrad Connolly:Here it is to share and that's the idea that we're kind of trying to achieve is that combination of proof of concept, a good store for customers to come and work with, a good store for people to be in that has that social vibe as well. So it's, it's really fun and I kind of was able to start with a fairly blank slate and, um, yeah, it was cool because I got to try a bunch of ideas that I think with steed, because of how big it was, I wouldn't have been able to try them. Um, and it probably wasn't the right place to try them in because it was too big and to steer that ship was going to take too long to change direction if it didn't work. Um, versus having 12 staff members.
Jarrad Connolly:You can literally implement something and take it away in 48 hours and it doesn't affect anything, versus if you have to implement something and put it into place with 50 different staff members, it takes a week before it even starts, and then, before it starts and gets out of hand, and then it's. It's wrong, it's already embedded in so many people's minds that it's too hard to change back the change back exactly no, no there was a trial.
Ash Kelly:What do you call that a pilot project? Yeah, exactly, okay if it didn't work.
Jarrad Connolly:So I think, with how small our team is, it is quite good and everyone's very open to that. Everyone's fairly new. Most people in the store are less than have worked there for less than 12 months very, uh, experienced within the industry. But, um, yeah, a lot of people in less than 12 months now I'd say almost all of the team. Oh, little baby norco team. Yeah, that's cool.
Ash Kelly:That's cool honestly, I wish you, I wish you guys, all the best because I mean, I'm I don't like shit talking shops, but it's easy to throw shade at the doors of the previous iterations of what that store has been within the industry. And, um, I see and hear and feel the ship the shaping up, yeah, um, and I'm really glad they brought you in to do some of that shaping up and it's, you know it does make sense.
Ash Kelly:The way you you in to do some of that shaping up and it's, you know it does make sense, the way you know we're hearing you frame sort of like what it's like to grow in a small business is yeah, I guess the ceiling is a little lower. I'm in, you know, in my experiences in small business have mostly been like, oh, this is my part-time gig or I own this or, um, you know it's deed. Right now I'm like I broke my neck and I don't want to be committed to anything. So like, for me, I'm not looking for the ceiling right now, like I don't give a crap what's above me, I'm perfectly content, right here. But of course there's a ceiling that's going to be smaller when you've got staying power and small business and it's beautiful in its own way. But I realize now when you're saying that A lot of steedsters, which was Kim's nickname in high school, just so everyone knows.
Ash Kelly:A lot of steedsters, according to Digger. I had secondhand knowledge. Digger told me that they run with it. A lot of steedsters go off into the industry to do big things.
Jarrad Connolly:Yeah.
Ash Kelly:They find inroads into. You know, work as like reps for high-level brands or works. They work for high-level brands, period Lots of work within the industry, so it's like it's a. It's a. It makes sense that you know it's not a place you're gonna stay forever. Um, and a lot and a lot of people stay for so long because it is very sad because, a lot of us don't need and that, and that's it, that's the thing like it's there's.
Ash Kelly:It's amazing to have ambition and growth and sometimes it's not right for that. For it's amazing to have ambition and growth and sometimes it's not right for other people right Like for me. Ambition and growth is not a part of my vibration and energy.
Jarrad Connolly:Yeah.
Ash Kelly:And we get people who come in and they're like so I really envy you because you chose the fun job. I chose the job that's going to make me all the money. But look at you go, you dumb idiot who chose the job that's going to make you poor. And I'm like man, I love my life. You know like we get these microaggressions all the time as bike mechanics, where people are like good for you, choosing to be happy.
Ash Kelly:And you're like, you know or like. So what is it? My housemate Mark was telling me he had a real one in the shop the other day. I can't remember exactly how it was framed, but basically he was just left so insulted, like man, I like my. I mean he's an engineer, like, he has a degree in engineering, he is a P-Eng motherfuckers. And yet here we are being belittled for working as bike mechanics. So for me, like I don't, I'm, I'm loving, I just want to put that out there. I don't, you know, there there are ceilings in retail and in the bike industry. We end up in the retail side of things so often and we can be so hard on ourselves and judgmental about it. Um, and and it you know, it makes sense that to think and look and look for the ceiling and stuff. I just haven't found myself looking for it.
Jarrad Connolly:Now I'm like frick, but that's but that that's forgot, that was there I I once listened to a book and I I don't want to say I struggle to read, but I don't read enough. So I listened to a lot of books, but I once listened to this book and it was about, uh, how to pick managers and all about uh sort of managing people and things like that. And one of the biggest points that stuck out to me in this book was you have two types of people, and some they're never always this exact thing, but and what I mean by that is they can change between the two different types of people. But you have rock stars and superstars. So rock stars are people that are amazing at their job. They may be the best person in the world, but they don't want to move up. So someone like yourself. So what you do in that position is maybe the best that that could ever be done defies expectations.
Ash Kelly:Exactly. Let me tell you exactly, exactly but?
Jarrad Connolly:but they don't want to move up. They're comfortable where they are, they're happy where they are. They don't need to be paid more money, they just want to be respected and uh sort of secure, secure in that position valued exactly and as long as they're exactly as long as long as they're happy with what they're receiving and they feel that that is equal to what they're putting they'll continue'll continue in rock star status.
Jarrad Connolly:Exactly. And then you have superstar status. So superstar status may be your second or third best person sorry, second or third best person in the role. So let's just take the mechanic, for instance because, that's easy to say. It may not your superstar, sorry, your rock star mechanic that is the best mechanic you have but it's the person that wants to move up and understand how to manage the people or how to manage the work orders or how to manage that because, my god, there has to be a willingness, exactly and that, and that's the thing is you.
Jarrad Connolly:There's that two, I guess, stereotypes of people that have either yeah, that want to stay in the position they're in, or the person that wants to move up, and it all depends on what the stage of their life is. So a perfect example is is a new, new to be mother, for instance. She might be driving crazy upwards through her corporate career, going up through all these different stages. She then becomes pregnant. She's like all right, I need to stop driving upwards because I need to be comfortable and stable. So she goes from being a superstar to being a rock star. So she's not going to stop doing what she's doing, but she may not continue to climb the ranks, if that makes sense. Because of and don't take this the wrong way, but because of having a baby, there's extra stress on the body and on the life that then she can then sort of just stay in the position without having the stress of going upwards. And I realize I may be saying this to the wrong yeah, I think you're gonna get in trouble for that.
Ash Kelly:Um, like that's. It's a bad example, but do you see where I'm coming from? Like adding external stress?
Jarrad Connolly:yeah, outside of the workplace let's go.
Ash Kelly:Let's go with a different example, because I think you're gonna get yourself in trouble with them because people will extrapolate, because there is a stigma that women aren't gonna continue to excel and and reach for the stars after but there's also nothing to stop her from once she feels comfortable to continue climbing that ladder.
Jarrad Connolly:Yeah, but do you see what I'm saying? Some, people.
Ash Kelly:But I think the thing is like through you, just you don't want to touch that, that's a time bomb.
Jarrad Connolly:Okay, that's very true.
Ash Kelly:Through pregnancy through a postpartum. Some people want to continue to be in that superstar status if that's in alignment with what they're searching. You know one I'm never giving birth, I won't be a mother, so I can't comment on that. And and there's other experiences too, where one would want to pull back and go to the family. But I can speak from the experience of someone who broke my neck, so I went from being like I want to own my business.
Ash Kelly:I want to be at the top of the industry. I'm going to be a superstar mechanic to like fuck this shit. None of it's important. What is important is that you breathe and you are present and you come from a place of love Like that's all that matters to me in life.
Jarrad Connolly:That's it. Yeah, and that's exactly it. And who knows, in 12 months time you may turn around and go back to wanting to grow further in that career. And that's what I'm sort of getting at Hostile takeover, steed cycles and that's sort of what I'm getting at is like it's not a bad thing to be comfortable in your life and go from there.
Ash Kelly:No, it's not, and the thing is because we both come from I come from a yeah, management. We both come from management background. People don't always remember, but my one of my first real jobs was the cycling team leader, cycling optics instruments and camping team leader for mec broadway store, and I had a team that ranged from 20 to 40 people, depending on the season all ages, all genders, all sorts of experiences. You know people with degrees that far surpassed. I took that team on when I was 20 years old.
Jarrad Connolly:Yeah.
Ash Kelly:And thank God, mec had an intense program of training managers. They put way too much on our plates and they worked us to death and there's all sorts of post-traumatic issues I have around work because of my decade at MEC.
Ash Kelly:But God damn it, it made me a good people manager and but you know what, as much as mec set me up to be a good people manager, my team blessed me with honesty. Um, one of the cool things that we see was we had to do. We had to kind of assess people like, are they willing and able and on what scale do we grade them?
Ash Kelly:and we would do these annual um performance reviews that, I swear to god, were like 18 pages long and I would I would get carpal tunnel every year, writing out my whole team's like I think they were eight pages long, but um the first year or two I did it like it was really hard for me to genuinely know what kind of feedback to give people, because I wasn't spending enough time with them on the floor.
Jarrad Connolly:I was overwhelmed.
Ash Kelly:In my work. I was, you know, in the back office, like I don't know how to make a schedule, um, and I was an idiot, I was in my early 20s, I was just an idiot and and um, but they would you know, bless them, I'd sit them down. I'd be like you know, you're not good at this and you could be better at this and I, but I also appreciate for this, and they'd be like do you even?
Jarrad Connolly:know me, do you see me?
Ash Kelly:That is so not what's happening here. And they would call me out and I remember specific people calling me out and it raised. I had to step up and really be. They were engaged, they wanted to know how to be better, they wanted truth. It was my role to give it to them. That made me a good manager, and because I had to be honest with myself, first and present with my team, and then I I mean I could be honest with them and even you know, it came to be that even sometimes I would say, hey, this is a problem and I think we could do this, and you know I don't, I don't like this and then they'd push back and be like yo.
Ash Kelly:That's not my experience, but I'd be like you actually know I have integrity in this one. I'm gonna stand in my integrity here because I'm present. Yeah, I have been with you and this is my experience of your work. Um, if you are not experiencing it the same, we have an impasse that we will have to work out.
Jarrad Connolly:You know what I mean.
Ash Kelly:Like I found integrity in that work. Management is an art. It's such a beautiful, it's such an opportunity and a gift to work with humans and it makes you grow as a person.
Ash Kelly:Everyone in their early 20s should go manage a team of 40-year-old men who hate you, yeah, and have 40 year old men who hate you, yeah, and have to fire half of them in the first year, like what a brutal, brutal thing it was, um, but it made me who, like I, could pick up any team and manage them, because all it really takes is love, respect, connection, listening, and I think that's where we get these really annoying tropes of like it's like working with the family and I think like that, like if we're not whitewashing capitalism and the impacts of it.
Ash Kelly:Actually a good team is kind of like a family if you set aside all the brutality of capitalism.
Jarrad Connolly:A good team's like a family, yeah I'm gonna wind it up on that note because we've just hit just over an hour. But when you were saying all that, it kind of made me wonder with all the different people skills and different people listening and things like that is why I enjoy doing what we do and why I enjoy doing the podcast.
Ash Kelly:So yeah, yeah so keeping that authentic expression of yourself yeah, exactly that's the most important thing, don't let anyone take that away from you and like it's really cool watching you grow and step into what's next and yeah, thank you yeah, good luck with all the people managing because it ain't easy.
Jarrad Connolly:No, there is a lot of it out there. So yeah, but yeah, no, um, thank you for coming on and breaking the first podcast down with me yeah, that was fun and I think there's going to be many more, hopefully, cheers, thank you congratulations jared, thanks bye.