Creator Cafe - Brewing Ideas, Serving Inspiration

Creator Cafe Episode 2 - What's In Our Camera Bags?

April 10, 2024 Neil Farrimond Season 1 Episode 2
Creator Cafe Episode 2 - What's In Our Camera Bags?
Creator Cafe - Brewing Ideas, Serving Inspiration
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Creator Cafe - Brewing Ideas, Serving Inspiration
Creator Cafe Episode 2 - What's In Our Camera Bags?
Apr 10, 2024 Season 1 Episode 2
Neil Farrimond
This week we talk about what's in our camera bags, and what essential kit do we need for our daily shoots? Join me Neil and my guest host, Brian Matiash, live every Tuesday for a no-agenda chill-out live stream podcast.  It's a mix of technical talk and personal insights, perfect for creators looking to build their own studios or enhance their content creation process. 
We can talk about creative stuff and gear, ask questions, from the perspectives of a videographer and photographer. 

Show Notes Transcript
This week we talk about what's in our camera bags, and what essential kit do we need for our daily shoots? Join me Neil and my guest host, Brian Matiash, live every Tuesday for a no-agenda chill-out live stream podcast.  It's a mix of technical talk and personal insights, perfect for creators looking to build their own studios or enhance their content creation process. 
We can talk about creative stuff and gear, ask questions, from the perspectives of a videographer and photographer. 

NEIL: [00:00:00] Hello, hello, and welcome to Tuesday. It's episode two of Creator Cafe. And today's topic is what is in our camera bags? And with me as always is my wonderful co host. We have Brian. Hello, Brian. Welcome back to Creator Cafe. He's got gear in his hand already. It is, it is a mess on my desk. Yes. Ready to go.

Topic of the day is What's in our camera bags?

And both of us coming from different backgrounds. Sort of disciplines, if you like. You're primarily a photographer. I'm primarily, when I go out and take my camera bag, my first thing is, what are we doing in terms of taking video stuff? And I find it quite difficult to work out what to actually [00:01:00] take.

And the reason for that is, I'm always overthinking what I might need, right, when we, when we go out. And I don't know if you have the same problem, but let's Let's start off maybe with what you would typically do when you're, or what you would typically have with you when you go on a shoot. And I guess from my perspective, I'm trying to understand a little bit more about what you actually take with you, is do you plan ahead in terms of, well, I know what kinds of things I need to be taking photographs of, so what subjects and so on and then you apply whatever kit that you have with you to that, or do you just take everything with you just because in case of I need X, Y, Z.

So that's, that's an interesting thing for me. So maybe you want to start with what your, what your sort of normal kit is when you are going taking photographs and so on. 

BRIAN: Sure. So, I mean, the, there are a few, it's almost like a [00:02:00] decision tree type of thing that I go through mentally. And because the decisions you make have several real world implications that people really need to factor in.

First is like weight, because every additional lens, every additional camera, every additional accessory you take, that's added grams, kilograms. That you're actually, I shouldn't even say kilograms. This is the American speaking. I'm not even sure if kilograms is a real, a realistic. 

NEIL: We can do both. You can do pounds, grams, pounds.

Let's do pounds. Okay. 

BRIAN: But yeah, so that's one consideration. And the other consideration is what I asked myself is. Have I been to this place before? And the reason I ask that is if it's a place that I've been to before, I will, I usually end up taking one set of lenses that I'll talk about in a minute.

If it's a place I've never been to before, I'm gonna take a different set. Series of lenses that [00:03:00] give me a bit more insurance or wiggle room, so to speak. And so that's, that's kind of the first thing, like if I've been to a place before, especially if I've been to it several times, like when I used to live in Oregon and I had like, Easy access to some of the best waterfalls in the world.

After a while, I started taking a certain set of lenses that are arguably a bit more challenging for a photographer to use. And just, they're called prime lenses as opposed to zoom lenses. And we can talk about that in a bit, but the, usually I go with one camera, unless it's something where, again, I'm going to a place that I haven't been to before, and I just need to make sure I have.

enough cameras or if it's in a place where in the, the environmental variables are not conducive to changing lenses, then I'll take two cameras and I'll have one camera with a wide lens and one camera with a [00:04:00] longer lens. Or if it's something like I was just telling you before we started the show, I, I did a commercial shoot yesterday for a sunglass company and I brought two Two cameras and several lenses because I needed to switch between, I couldn't just change lenses I needed to have two focal lengths ready.

So yeah, so that's kind of a roundabout way to kind of answer your question It really depends now Excuse me, I fully admit that I am really blessed that I have A lot of camera gear and a lot of it has been provided to me. Like I am an ambassador for Zeiss, which is a lens manufacturer, and they've provided me with lenses.

I've done work with Sony and they've provided me with their gear at either they've provided to me for free or at discount rates. So I don't want to pretend like all of This stuff is just like, I bought it at MSRP. And I wouldn't necessarily advocate that you need to go out and buy all of these things.

And we can talk about that. Like, what do you [00:05:00] really need? But as far as like you asked, what's in my camera bag.

It depends on what the, the goal is and, and primarily have I been there before? Because if it's a place I haven't been to before, I'm going to be I'm going to err on the side of caution and take the kinds of lenses that maximize focal length. Right. 

NEIL: Yes, that's a good point. I think what seems to happen with me is because I invariably, when I'm, when I'm going out, I'm planning to do maybe like a vlog type video or I want to take, if I'm going to a new place, particularly if I'm traveling around Portugal, I then think about, well, You know, do I need to take a drone with me as well?

Do I need to take a drone for some aerial photography? Do I need to take a wide angle lens? Am I going to take some close ups of my family and friends? I'm going to take a prime for video and so on. So there's a few, there's a few, there's a few sort of unknowns I think and I think it's good if you can plan and if you [00:06:00] understand The environment that you're going in and you know what kit you want to actually take with you, then that's a big help.

But invariably there's a few unknowns when I'm, when I'm, especially when I'm going to try and shoot something specific. So I eventually have to take more than one lens, maybe more than one camera. As I said, the drone, then there's the microphone situation, cause you've got the audio in the mix and so on and things like that.

So Shane asks, how did you become an ambassador for a particular lens company? Well, that's obviously a question for you because I'm, I'm not. So Brian. 

BRIAN: Yeah. I mean, that's a, I get that question very often. Whenever it comes up, someone usually asks, well, okay, that's cool.

How did you become that? It's a combination of things. The first is obviously you, you, you need to be prolific in the content that you create. And so for a camera company or lens manufacturer, that means generally imagery, but also like, content or video content. I didn't [00:07:00] seek Zeiss or Sony out just to start with that.

But really the best thing if you're really interested in kind of developing a relationship with a company is if you can, Go to where they are. And what I mean by that is my relationship with Zeiss started and developed at trade shows. And so every year I would go to New York in October for the PhotoPlus trade show, which was, it doesn't exist anymore unfortunately, but it was the largest trade, photography trade show in the U.

S. And so I'd go there and I would spend time at the Zeiss booth. Generally the company will send marketing managers to kind of sit there in addition to like support people. And so I got to know the marketing people and the marketing people generally are the ones that run the ambassador programs, or they know the people who run them.

And so you just kind of develop the relationship, you get their card, you email them, you, you basically make it [00:08:00] especially easy for them to kind of want to work with you. So I would send articles. I did videos on their lenses, like, you know, all the, you can check it on my channel, like they're older videos, but.

They're still totally relevant and because they're evergreen when you do these things generally, you know the company will, will, I mean, they'll want to work with you now, whether or not they make you an ambassador. That's, you know, they may not even have an ambassador program, but they will more than likely be more than happy to work with you and, and, you know, maybe hire you to create content for them, or they'll send you gear to do reviews of that kind of stuff, if that's your, you know, what you're interested in.

But that's really, there's no magic thing to it. Unless you, you just have this massive channel where they reach out to you. But that's a that's a kind of upside down thing like that does not happen very often And so my recommendation if you can't go to a trade show go on linkedin Find the company look at [00:09:00] the the employees who are there look for the marketing people And just reach out to them You know, I know that we're kind of deviating from The, the kind of essence of the, of the, this stream, Neil, but it's a great question.

No, it's no problem. 

NEIL: No, I think, I think it's valid. I think as the questions come in, no, no problem with with taking them, especially when it's related to, you know, obviously something that you've just mentioned. So, but it's it's great advice because, you know, it's, it's, it's not something that I've. I think if you become, as you said, an authority in the subject that you're talking about on YouTube, then obviously those companies who also have a vested interest in, in getting advertising and things you know, and I'm promoting their product, they're going to, they're going to obviously reach out to you.

BRIAN: To that end, though, as I speak, I would love to, for them to chime in if they kind of have, if they agree or if they have their own, because photographers have, you know, not just photographers, but like, but especially like [00:10:00] there's a, we have our, our, our own methodologies of how people, What we take with us.

Some people, they're just a very simple one camera, one lens type of deal. Other people like me, I, I, I kind of go purpose driven, so I'll take the lenses that I need. And that generally does, yeah. So, but yeah, for, for Gretchen and Phil and anyone else who's into photography, like, yeah, I would love to, to hear.

If they're like, no, Brian's way off base, like, I want to know 

NEIL: I've I've done a couple of things as well in the past where I've challenged myself to go out with one camera, one lens and do whatever I can with that. And I think it's quite good to do that. Yeah, well, there you go with the phone. Exactly. But at least.

For me, either taking a mirrorless camera and a fixed prime, for example. So I might take the 20 millimeter, 35 millimeter. It's not the best focal length in the world for, for obviously doing anything landscape, but, but if you're trying to just capture a moment, capture somebody in an in particular environment, then, [00:11:00] then I've done that in the past and.

There's this sort of sort of thing going wrong where maybe you should only have two lenses ever. You should have maybe a fixed prime of choice, maybe a 35 millimeters, something like that, or 50, the nifty 50, as people say. And then maybe a zoom lens with a focal length of maybe 24 to 70. And that's it.

That's all you would ever need for You know, a wedding or something similar, but obviously it's all dependent on, on the use cases. So I'd be interested to understand a little bit more, let's say now you have a plan to go to do a shoot like you did yesterday. So could you maybe just talk about the lens choice that you, that you ended up with?

Because obviously if you've got a number of different lenses, I don't know how many lenses you've got and you don't have to say how many number of lenses you've got. It might be more than three. Okay. You go. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So out of your 13 lenses and you know that this project is a professional photography shoot for [00:12:00] a sunglasses company, what are the decisions you go through to, to decide what lenses to take?

Because outta 13, I'd be like, what do I need, you know? Anyway, I'll let, I'll let you answer that question 'cause I'm, I'm 

BRIAN: intrigued. No, it's, it's, it's a great question. So the decision for that, for yesterday's shoot was actually kind of multifaceted. The first thing was I knew that I needed fast lenses.

I needed my fastest lenses, meaning I needed the lenses that the aperture opens up like at least 1. 8 or, or a larger or, or 2. 0, because you want to, I wanted to isolate the golfer. Wearing the sunglasses and I wanted to render everything behind him completely out of focus so then the other thing and this kind of Reinforced my decision was these sunglasses one of their value propositions is that they use Zeiss lenses like Zeiss optics So I'm like, oh, that's cool.

Yeah, [00:13:00] I did a research on about them on their website and I saw them like, okay Well, this is cool. Maybe the because I knew the owner would be there And I thought maybe he'd appreciate, like, I'm using Zeiss optics to take photo of Zeiss optics. So, the decisions I made, so I want, generally whenever I go anywhere, I want to have a wide, a mid range, and at least one low range.

Longer focal length, so for my wide, I, so I went with prime. So for those that don't understand the difference there's prime and then there's telephoto. No, I'm sorry. We're on zoom, not telephoto zoom. A prime you can see here is it's only one focal length. A prime is a fixed focal length lens. So you can see if this is a Zeiss bodice 18 millimeter lens, and it opens to a maximum of F 2.

8. Whereas with a zoom lens. This is a Sony lens, and this is a 16 to 35. So you can see that unlike the prime, which is one focal length, this, you can zoom and change the focal length. [00:14:00] So this is, it goes from 16 millimeters at a consistent F 2. 8 aperture. So I decided to go with primes for my wide. I went with the 18 millimeter F 2.

8. So this was my widest lens for my mid range. I went with the bodice. 40 millimeter F two. And this is a nice one because this is also, you see that CF that stands for close focus, so it's kind of like a macro lens and then the workhorse, the one that I used yesterday, probably 90 percent of the time, one of my favorite lenses is the bodice 85 1.

8 and just in case I needed a little bit more focal length. I used the bodice. 135 2. 8. Come on camera. You can focus. I know you can Yeah, there it is. There you go. It's kind of there. Yeah, so it's a 135 f 2. 8 So so yeah, Neil that's kind of like I the decision was I wanted [00:15:00] to go prime because I needed my fastest lenses I went with Zeiss because well Zeiss is pretty much all I have in terms of prime lenses And and yes, and then I took two cameras, two camera bodies, so I can have one with the 85 and one with either the 18 or the 40.

I kind of switched between the two. 

NEIL: Right. And you do see that a lot, actually, in, in weddings, right? You've got the wedding photographer, they've got two cameras strapped over them, one pretty much with a, with a zoom lens ready to go to capture those moments, and then they have a, I guess a fixed focal length prime on their camera as well.

And they're just switching between the two. So I know you're a Sony user like me now. I feel, I feel like I've made the right choice over the years and keep switching with, with cameras which cameras did you take with you then? Cause I know you've got the Sony a seven five. 

BRIAN: Yes. So that, yeah, this is the a seven R five.

I've done it again. That's okay. Okay. Sorry. A seven. That's the Sony a seven five. Yep. The [00:16:00] R five 'cause R five. And that's important because there currently the A seven line, there's the A is the mark four. So in theory A five will come out. But the A seven R five is their, their the R is for resolution, so it's like a 60.1 megapixel sensor.

And then I also took the A seven three. So this is a 24 megapixel sensor. The 85 millimeter bodice that I was my workhorse yesterday was paired with the R5. So I had maximum resolution and then they, 73 is kind of like, it's just a good workhorse camera. In fact, that's what I'm using. I have two, a seven threes, one I take with me in the field and one is this camera that I use for streaming.

And It just, they both performed great. It's just generally speaking, if I were to do these kinds of shoots more often, ideally, I would like to have twin cameras. I'd like the same model just because the menu system, for example, the R5 and the A3 are wildly different. [00:17:00] Sony changed them since, you know, from one to the other and just general like button layout and customization.

It'd be nice to have the same camera so that you can configure Your, your custom buttons the way you want, you don't have to kind of think about them, but it's fine. It's totally fine. So, yeah. 

NEIL: But, yeah, and I, and I find that as well. So back in the day, I had so my wife was into photography as well. She had an old Canon, I say old, it was, it was good at the time, the Canon 5D Mark.

Which was, which was her great camera. I was, it was a great camera. And but then because I was getting more into videography, I switched over to Panasonic. So I ended up having a GH4 and Phil used to use Panasonic cameras back in the day as well, until he moved to Canon. And I found that having because I bought the GH5 after that.

So I still have my GH4 and GH5 and having the same menu. System on both cameras and enabling me to actually [00:18:00] save presets in one camera and been able to then offload them to another, they were identical. So I knew exactly which button to press. And I know with, and correct me if I'm wrong, because I've got the Sony A7 IV, which has the new menu system in Sony.

Right. And then the A7. S3 has the older menu system, right? Cause I have the ZV1 as well. So that, that has the older menus and it's just so frustrating cause it's, it's, they're not in the same, they're not in the same system. So it's hard to, to get those buttons. And when you're actually in the moment and you're having to, Especially if you either switch modes or switch something, either use clear image zoom or something on the settings where you want to get those to those buttons quickly, not having the same setup just takes you out of that, I think, and it makes you, you know, you have to stop, you have to think, you have to reset something and then, and then refocus and then take the shot.

So I think there's a lot to be said from a sort of peace of mind [00:19:00] perspective, having. Those cameras set up and maybe, maybe in the future, you'll, you consider getting all the, the same cameras, I guess, with the same menu system. Or is that, is that something for the for the short term future? 

BRIAN: I mean, it depends if, if the need presents itself, you know, I would gladly get another A7R5.

Part of the re the other thing, in addition to the, we were talking about menus and custom buttons is the autofocusing system is on the A7R5. I mean, it's really good. It's not, you know, it's not like the A1 or the A9. But it's especially fast and it uses AI for subject tracking, whereas the a7iii, that was also another kind of thing I kind of had to mentally jump between.

It wasn't as big of a deal because on the a7iii I was using a wider focal length, so it wasn't as challenging for the camera to establish a focus lock. Whereas with the R5 with the 85 millimeter, you know, it's critical. I mean, you're shooting, I was shooting it wide [00:20:00] open. And so I needed to make sure that the camera was locking on focus correctly every time.

And you know what? It did a bang up job. Like, I mean, I don't think I missed focus a single time. So yeah, and that to me, in terms of like hierarchy of needs, you're about getting like the same camera, the autofocus system would probably be at the very top. 

NEIL: Yes. Yeah. And that's the reason why, unfortunately, I had to shift away from the GH4 and GH5 and and Phil, Phil's basically said, And they were back in the day, they were, you know, pioneering cameras for videography.

They weren't sort of up there with the photography side of things. And Phil's also commented on how many nice lenses that you have, Brian, which is, which is great. So, and they are on the, on the great lenses. So in terms of. I mean, maybe I'll just explain about what I take in my camera bag next, and then we'll go on to sort of peripherals and other things that we might need.

So I'm just going to switch to this other camera, because it's, it's got, it's got the old [00:21:00] what's it called? Where you can just, you know, show the thing. So this is my main, little, 20 mil what is this one? So this is the Sony 20 millimeter. I knew it was around here somewhere. Oh, there it is. It's the 20 millimeter G master F 1.8.

So again, it's a prime lens. It's a 20 millimeter. It's you know, wide enough for doing my type of videography. And that's sort of my sort of main lens that I, I would take out with me. I also have a Sigma 24 to 30 something. I can't remember which one it is off my head. It's on another camera, so I can't, I can't go and look at it.

So that's just giving me that extra bit of focal length that I might need. And then I guess my other, Sort of prime lens is the Sony 50 millimeter F 1. 8. So one, one is a G master, which is a real, this is the G master, which is the nicer quality lens. And I find the Sigma lens is okay for, for the Sony stuff.

The autofocus seems to work pretty [00:22:00] quickly. Without any problem. I don't sort of lose autofocus and I'm just trying to think there is another lens that I've got. Oh, yeah, the one that I'm using right now, which is the the 30 millimeter f1. 4. That is another G Master lens. So I did try and spend some money on decent lenses because they do say that You know, half the money on your camera setup should really be going to the lenses because you can have the best camera in the world.

And if you've got a really bad lens, that's giving you distortion, chromatic aberration, all kinds of weird sort of artifacting and things, then yeah, it just takes, takes all the fun out of it. 

BRIAN: So, yeah, I mean, if you had, you know, 2, 000 to invest in a camera lens setup, I mean, I would almost argue to put maybe six to 800 in the camera.

And the rest to the lens, excuse me, the, the, the lens is, is like, I mean, it is the most important component you know, the camera, yes, sure. But when you think about it, a photo is light traveling through glass, [00:23:00] resolving onto a sensor or a film plane. And. That's why there's 50 lenses and, and multi thousand dollar lenses.

Not just the, the quality of the glass, but the amount of, of lens elements in, in the barrel of the lens. The aperture. That stuff has real world quality. application to the end result of your photo, like period, end of story. 

NEIL: Yeah, no, absolutely. And I think, I think getting a decent lens is, is really important.

And a question has come in from Shane and it's a good question to save a bit of money, is there a good place to get a good used lens? 

BRIAN: Yeah I use a place, I've, so, I've, I don't know that I've bought secondhand lenses, again, and I'm not, it's not boasting, a lot of my lenses were provided to me.

However, I've sold many lenses and my favorite place is, it's a website called fredmiranda. com So, [00:24:00] it's Fred, F R E D, Miranda, M I R A N D E dot com. When you go to it, you're gonna be, it's like a time warp back to like 1998 internet. It's like this old school web forum. Oh, wow. But, oh yeah. There, it's, it's, it's funny how few people I think really know about it.

But it has, they have a buy and sell. forum, one for photography specifically and one for tech. So like laptops and stuff like that. And it's the best, like, I mean, I've never had a problem selling there and you do have to pay to access those specific forums. That's one of, that's kind of their business model, but it's not, it's like 9, I think.

That's a wonderful place. to look for for used lenses that where, where the nice thing about it is there's a reputation score similar to Reddit. So it took me several years of selling stuff and then [00:25:00] making sure that the buyer has a good experience because they can go in and rate you afterwards.

NEIL: Right. 

BRIAN: So You can go and buy something and see the seller's reputation score and, and see the feedback from everyone else. That's cool. And it's a one-on-one thing, you're, you're communicating directly with the seller. So that's my place is Fred Miranda. What about you, Fred Miranda? 

NEIL: So me, it's the same as Phil, actually.

MBP they are fantastic. So I've used them. I've sold all my camera gear to them and they're. A great place because they have all cameras lenses everything listed already on their website And if you want to sell something specifically you can go to their website You can put in what your camera is, its age, its condition, and so on.

You give it, you know, a fair estimate of the condition, whether there's any scuffs in it and things like that, whether there's still a box and things. And then they'll give you, they'll give you a valuation straight away within five seconds or something. And then if you agree to that valuation, you can go on.

You click on [00:26:00] sell and they will send you all the labels. They will send a courier to your door. It's all paid for within the price. And all you've got to do is box it up, put the label on, give it to them. And then when they get it, they'll open it up, make sure it's in the condition. And if. If there's a changing condition, if it's not as good as you say it is, then they'll just give you a re evaluation, you can accept that, or they'll send it back to you.

It's a flawless service, and being in Portugal, we can't always get things delivered easily, as you well know from my previous story. And these have been great, because they go to the Netherlands, which is the closest sort of depot in Europe. And they just within, I think two days, the money is in your account once they've received it, it's, it's fantastic.

So, and it's a safe way as well, because they will offer guarantees on their used equipment as well. So making it easier and giving people more confidence to buy things, but that's great. So I'll put a link in the description in the video for, for your site as well, because that, that sounds really interesting because at least you've got the [00:27:00] confidence that you're buying off somebody reputable and they've got stars against the name and things like that.

So that that's really good, but, but kit is expensive, you know, and, and I I've bought all my kit over the years and sold it. And I have bought some secondhand gear in the past as well. I bought the ZV 1 is a, is a secondhand one, but it was, it was off Amazon and it was just almost like a reboxing. It wasn't really used in any way, but you have to be careful.

And just to that point, I did a video, a few. Years ago now, two years ago now on my channel I was, I was scammed by an online purchaser and it was, it looked like a legitimate site and it was, you know, it's all professionally done and it was when I was buying, I think, I can't remember which camera it was, but, but basically I dropped two and a half thousand pounds on a camera that I never saw again.

Oh no. Because the bank said, well, you made that transaction. Is it your risk? Did you not know? And, you know, [00:28:00] sometimes the banks are good with that, and I fought, and so on. And the thing was, right up until the point of where they said they were going to deliver it, they this company said, oh yeah, they keep sending emails, and so, well yeah, it's, it's, here's the tracking number, and it was a dubious tracking number, but I thought, well, I've never heard of this tracking company before, but being here in Portugal, There's many tracking companies that you don't hear of, so I just took it at sort of face value.

And yeah, so you, you do have to be very careful, so only buy from reputable companies and word of mouth and people who have obviously bought and sold from those companies previously are a great advocate of that and representative of it, so. Good. Yeah. So other thing, what is your camera bag? That's not, not what's in your camera bag.

Let's talk about what is your camera bag, because that's another thing, because you mentioned, I mean, you've just explained to us that you've got, you've got two cameras and abundance of lenses. That's not even, we haven't even spoke about ND [00:29:00] filters and all kinds of things that you would take with you as well.

So what, what actually is your camera bag and how big is it? 300 liters. It's not a bag, it's a car. 

BRIAN: It basically, it's a, yeah, it's like a, a gigantic sack. The, so I have two, two, again, purpose driven. If it's generally just kind of like a easy shoot, like if I go to the local wetlands, we have several of these beautiful wetlands here and I don't want to pack a lot of stuff.

Or if I'm going traveling to another city I use the Peak Design Everyday Backpack, which is like a universal staple for most tech people. Like that's just, it's a, it's a really good bag. But for the shoot like yesterday or when I'm traveling, there's a company called Shimoda. They they make, in my opinion, some of the best camera bags on the market.

They're primarily made for like landscape or adventure type of photography. So [00:30:00] I use the Shimoda Explore 30. So I believe it's a 30 liter bag. And you know, it has like a kind of like modular insert system. So like you buy this kind of, depending on the size you want, medium, small, or large these inserts and it's, that's where you store your gear.

So, I mean, I love that bag. It's a great company. They, they're, the quality of their bags is excellent. Stupendous, and I've Run the gamut with camera bags, like the, the other one, if you don't, if Shimoda doesn't, you know, wet your whistle, then F stop gear, they make phenomenal bags as well. 

NEIL: Right. 

BRIAN: Yeah, so that's my bag.

NEIL: So, yeah, I've heard, I've heard of the Peak Design, I've seen so many people go for that. I think my original bag was the Was it the Low Pro? Yeah. Pro L or something. Yeah. So it was, it was pretty decent. And then I looked at the Peter McKinnon bags and oh, no one mad, I [00:31:00] think. Yeah, the, the, the no mad bag.

And I didnt buy one of those, and then I found it too big, and then I, it just, it's, again, it's a stupid purchase because I thought, well, it can fit everything I need in it. But then it weighs a ton. And if I'm, and if it's almost like a bag, it's like a carry on where you would take it on, on the plane with you and not have to take a suitcase.

Which is fine, but, but not for when you're trying to just go out and about, you know, when you, and especially I do quite a bit of hiking as well. So there's quite a few mountains where I live. So you're not going to take something that heavy with you because the bag's really heavy before you even put anything in it.

So all these considerations. Yeah. 

BRIAN: It's funny with camera bags. It's like the gear will. fill to occupy the available space. So if you have this big bag, it, you will invariably fill it with stuff because yes, it's an interesting phenomenon because you can and it is not fun trekking with a heavy bag on your back.

NEIL: So, so recently I was turned on to [00:32:00] this company called one door D wondered when, I don't know how you pronounce that, but, but I've got this Tiny sort of, was it slingshot bag? I don't know what I actually call it, but I'll put a link in the description. And it's great because it actually just fits one camera, one lens.

Microphone in this case one camera, one lens, and enough space for You can actually put your laptop in here as well, but it just slides in there and then it has a sort of a rain cover. But it's a great sort of a sling bag just to take with you if it's just a single lens, camera, couple of SD cards, some filters.

And so on, super lightweight, strap it over my shoulder, and you can feel as well that nobody's going to try and take that, you know? 

But but people were asking some good questions actually. Now, I, I don't know much about So the, I don't know if you're familiar with the Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera. I mean, it's not a photography camera. It's mainly for cinema. Are you familiar with anybody that uses these and do you have any thoughts on that, Brian?

I don't know. 

BRIAN: Yeah, I mean, [00:33:00] I know numerous people who like, it's, it's definitely, obviously more for video. I know, for example, the church that we go to, they use black magic cameras to do their live streaming. I've never used them personally other than the iOS app. That's, that's the only thing that I because they put out a phenomenal app, but as far as the cameras go, no, I haven't, I haven't used them.

They're really good. And. I say that because I know people who have and they absolutely love them. It's just not for me because it's, it's, whereas most cameras are primarily for still shooting, Blackmagic is primarily, the Blackmagic cinema cameras are primarily for video and that's not my, my primary focus.

NEIL: We were actually talking as well about don't limit yourself with lens choices because I don't know how good the lens choice is for Blackmagic pocket cinema cameras over something like, The Sony. So, you know, if, if, if Shane's just going down the route of [00:34:00] doing some sort of hybrid shooting, maybe an a seven, four, seven, five with the multiple choices of lenses that you've got available to you with the Sony E mount might be the right choice, but yeah.

BRIAN: No, to that point, that's, you brought up a really interesting point, and that's the, whatever the lens mount is of the, of the camera itself. Also, you can buy mount adapters. So, Canon makes this 15mm f2. 8 fisheye lens. This is one of The most important lenses I own. It's and I, I call it the Funkbuster.

And I've written about it like, yeah, I have a, I, I've, I, like in my book that I, I have published, I specifically dedicated a section of a chapter called the Funkbuster. It's such a great lens. Because if you're in this creative funk and you just need to break through it, a fisheye lens is one of the best ways to do it.

Point is that I love that lens so much, I never want to get rid of it, and so I bought a Canon EF 2 Sony E [00:35:00] mount adapter. I don't ha I mean, I lose autofocus capabilities, but that's fine but I get to maintain that lens. Same thing, Canon has some of the best tilt shift lenses. And so in another life, I did a lot of architecture photography for hotels and stuff until shift lenses are a must.

So being able to adapt it, you know, Shane, that that's a real, don't forget, you know, you might, let's say you own Canon lenses. That's actually how I. Made my foray into Sony. I was a Canon shooter from the late nineties up until 2013 when Sony released the first interchangeable lens mirrorless camera with the Sony A seven, which I still have 'cause I converted it to infrared.

At the time, Sony's lens lineup was not nearly as mature as it ugh. Reactions. To put our hands by our sides, sorry. That's right. Just like this. So I, but I had a bunch of Canon lenses, like all of my Canon lenses. [00:36:00] So I just bought an adapter. And I was able to use them. I mean, again, your newer adapters though actually, I believe we'll use autofocus, so you won't even lose that.

But my point is you can, you don't have to throw the baby out with the bathwater if you want to switch from say Canon to Sony, if you've got an arsenal of lenses that are Canon, just get an adapter and they work, they work great. So. 

NEIL: Yeah, I, I'm, and to your point, that's exactly what I did when I bought the Panasonic GH four.

So, as I mentioned, my wife still had the, the Canon camera and we had a couple of canon lenses and there was a converter as well. So for those of you who don't know, the GH four and the GH five are the micro four thirds lens. Mount. It's, is it the Panasonic L? I can't remember what it's called, but anyways, it's micro four thirds anyway, and obviously you need to convert it to the, to the Canon side.

So I ended up getting a Metabones speed booster, which has some optics in it as well. So the speed booster was fantastic [00:37:00] because what that does is it, it sort of gives you an extra, I think, stop of light with regards to your lens. So I think if you take a, an F 1. 8, I think I converted. One of the lenses down to like an f1.

4 or something like that. So it really did a good job of that. And again, autofocus, if it's not a consideration, this is a passive it's not an active speed booster by any means. So none of the. Properties with regards to autofocus was working, so it's all manual focus anyway. But that was fine, I didn't mind because the Panasonics weren't that great with autofocus in the first place.

But the, the fact that you can not throw away your good lenses, because if you've got some decent glass in your Canon lenses, especially if you've got the Canon L mount sorry, the L series lenses, then Those are good quality lenses. So why not? You could just repurpose them and use them with your with your system.

So it all depends, right? If you're going brand new and saying, well, what manufacturer do I start with? Then I mean for me and I'm no affiliation to Sony in any way. I just find that Sony seemed [00:38:00] to be better with color science. Now they've got a lot of lens choices. Their autofocus is phenomenal. So maybe that's maybe that's a good choice for people.

I think. All right. Yeah, I mean, it really depends. Yeah, it is. It is. It's a difficult one is because I get questions from people as well who are new to the videography space. I want to do live streaming. What camera should I get? Well, that's that's a that's a whole different ballgame, you know, because if you're not going to take it out and it's just a fixed camera and you could use a, I don't know, Osmo pocket three, a tiny two from Osmo.

There's so many sort of choices. It is. Or you could go and get a little Sony ZV 1 and just sort of mount it there. You just need something with decent autofocus and reasonable quality for when you're live streaming. I mean, what we're shooting with right now is Is probably over the top for live streaming, but if we're making videos and tutorial videos, you do want a set of decent quality, right?

So back to our camera bag. So I was, I was saying before that we've got, we've got the cameras [00:39:00] out the way and some of the lenses. I did forget as well that I do have a and could you explain to people what the difference is between a telephoto and a zoom lens? Cause I always get this mixed up. So would, would you mind just explaining that real quick?

Cause you did mention telephoto before and zoom. Yeah. 

BRIAN: So a zoom is any lens that has a variable focal length that you can adjust by twisting the barrel. So this, you're, this is a 16 to 35 millimeter zoom lens. This is a 24 to 70 zoom lens. And again, you know, you twist it and in this case here, the barrel telescopes.

And then there is a. 100 to 400 millimeter telephoto zoom lens. So it's zoom in that the focal length Can be adjusted, but telephoto generally refers to the focal length itself. So it wouldn't make sense to call a 16 to 35 [00:40:00] millimeter, a telephoto zoom, because it's not 16 through 35. Those are ultra wide to standard focal ranges.

So zoom is any lens that you twist the barrel. And either the, the glass extends internally or it telescopes out. So all three of my lenses, unfortunately, are telescoping lenses. So you can see here what, again, when I twist that barrel extends, and then when I twist again, it, it contracts. The reason why I say unfortunate lenses, like the 70 to 200, some versions of 7, 200 when you zoom.

It does it in body, and that is a really nice thing, especially for a landscape photographer, because Oftentimes, if I'm, if I'm zooming with my 100 400 and it's raining, for example, or if I'm in the desert, you know, rain or sand can collect on the barrel here. And then when you zoom in, you know, let me angle it.[00:41:00] 

When you zoom in, those elements can kind of sometimes get sucked in to the actual interior of the lens. And that's how you get, oftentimes if you don't treat it, You know, that's how you can sometimes get like fungus on the interior of the lens, or you just get done. Yeah. Yeah. So these are just things that any landscape photographer or anyone who's photographing and the elements you have to consider.

And that's also why. I, I would love if more lenses zoomed you know, like internally, but yeah, that's not the case. Yeah. 

NEIL: Yeah. I had, I had one that did that. It's the older Sigma 18 to 35. I think, I think that's all internal zooming and that's one of the de facto lenses that has been out for every, for forever.

Everybody used to get the, the 18 to 35, particularly if you had a Panasonic or a, or a Canon camera at the time, because they were, they're nice lenses. It's F 1. 8. And it's a constant aperture as well. So the [00:42:00] aperture doesn't change as you zoom. So some, some of those, I mean, those are the, I guess, the more expensive lenses.

And again, it depends what you want. So you have to be careful, I guess, with lens choice and that's a, it's a whole different show altogether, but with lens choices, you have to be careful about, well, does the aperture, change dramatically when you're zooming from point A to point B. And they can be, right? I mean, I've got, I think I have an older lens.

I did have one that went from F, I want to say like 2. 8 and then fully extended it's F 5. 6. So you do, you do lose a lot of the aperture. Yeah, with regards to that. So 

BRIAN: this lens is a variable aperture. There's a hundred to, you can kind of see it says F 4. 5 to 5. 6. So when the camera is at the widest, which is a hundred millimeters, it will be F 4.

5, but if you extend it to its longest, which is 400 your aperture will close to 5. 6. And that is no slouch of a lens. Like that is not, but often when the kit lenses [00:43:00] that you buy, the lenses that come with the body. More often than not, those are, to reduce the price, they give you these kit lenses that give you good optical range, like, you know, 24 70 or 24 50 or 24 105, but the aperture varies.

NEIL: They're not a very fast lens to start with, so you're not going to get that, sort of, necessarily that nice, creamy sort of autofocus background, depending on what it's set to. So, yeah, that's why, when I've bought cameras, I just tend to buy body only. And then just choose the lens separately. Absolutely.

Don't worry about the kit lens and so on. Yes. So, as we're getting close to the hour I just wanted to talk about last few little bits and pieces that you carry around in your kit bag. So, tripod, monopod, tripod, 

BRIAN: both? Tripod. No, tripod. 100%. Yeah. Okay. And my tripod is, is, is one of the most important accessories next to the camera and the lens.

And the filters. But [00:44:00] because my landscape photography, a lot of it is kind of longer exposure. I need a good tripod. And I, I've, I've subscribed to the philosophy, especially with tripods of buy once, cry once. And so I, I own three really right stuff tripods. So the company's called really right stuff, which is a interesting name, but they're based here in Utah.

I mean, Everything, those tripods are made and assembled here in the U. S. They are not cheap. They are, 100 percent admit, they are very expensive tripods, but they are bomb proof. Like, they will outlive me and everyone else. They're just so over engineered. With that said, I am, there, the, the, the, the tripod world has expanded so much, there are so many great options out there, that, a variety of price points, and, and it's gotten to the point where just because you buy a, a less expensive tripod, it doesn't mean that it's necessarily [00:45:00] cheaper in quality.

So, you know, three legged things. There are these other like smaller companies that I've seen come through Kickstarters that are doing some really ingenious things and they look really good. So and I apologize. I don't remember the name of it, but for me, I'm, I'm a really right stuff guy. Always have been, always will be.

NEIL: That's cool. I've never ever heard of them until you've just mentioned them. I've used Manfrotto tripods before. Sure. And I've just recently bought a very cheap I can't remember the name of it now. I think it's, I think it's an S, is it? It's the ones that makes the lenses, the, the anamorphic lenses that Surii or Surii lens or something.

Oh yeah, Surii, yeah, 

BRIAN: S I R. Yeah, I know what you're talking about. Yeah, yeah, 

NEIL: yeah. And it's a very lightweight it's made of it's a mixture of carbon fiber and aluminum for the American aluminum. And and it's great because I don't want, I don't need to take a tripod out with me. That's too heavy, particularly, as I said, small backpack trying to hike up a hill, something like that.

And I [00:46:00] have used monopods for video shoots and things like that. I have done events where the monopod has been very, very versatile because you can just run around with it. Plunk it down, take the bit of the video shot, especially if there's, if there's a lot of movement in these events, it was It was a, a cartoon festival and a book thing that was going on years ago and there was a lot of moving parts, there was a lot of presenters moving around, there was a lot of people that they wanted to capture, and you know, there's like a procession, so it's very hard to do that with a tripod, you know, you put a tripod down, then you've got to sort of take it up and run around, so I think monopods have their place I see a lot of wedding photographers and videographers use them, but 

BRIAN: yeah, we've talked about weddings.

For me. The tripods, it's not just, it's not just the sticks or the ball head. Like, there are a few things that are very important for me. The first is One, I, I will never use a tripod with a center comp, like a center column, never, ever, ever. Like, to me, that defeats the purpose of a tripod, [00:47:00] because A tripod, you have three legs joining to some sort of a center point, like a ball head or a different type of head.

And then if you use a center column, don't get me wrong. I understand it's, it's use. And I'm not saying that, that it has no place. It's just for me. As soon as you bring that, that center column up, you're now negating to a degree, the stability of three legs, because now your camera is sitting on a single column and it's much more subject to things like wind.

That's one thing. Number two, all three of my tripods have my God. Wonderful.

NEIL: It's so good. Those who are just listening to the audio version, there are balloons behind Brian now, and it's not his birthday or any celebration of any kind, but there you go. 

BRIAN: No. Yeah, thank you, Apple Reactions. The, the, my tripods have a leveling base, so oftentimes when I'm out in the field and I'm photographing, even though there [00:48:00] are three legs and I can kind of adjust them independently, the camera, I need to make sure it is Perfectly level, because often times I'll do panoramic shots, and when you do a panoramic shot, you want your camera to be as level as possible.

It's not impossible to do it, but it makes things easier during post processing. So, like, I can get my tripod set, and then I can adjust the ball head. I can level it after the fact. That's number two. Hopefully the balloons don't come out. Number three is, The, my tripods, Really Right Stuff, makes these different accessories for my feet.

Most tripods come with rubber feet, and that's great, but Really Right Stuff also makes these spiked feet. They're like two and a half inch spikes, metal spikes, and also rock claw feet. So these are like little steel feet that have almost like they're really sharp edges. The spikes are really important, especially [00:49:00] living here in Florida.

If I'm doing a coastal beach photography, if you've ever noticed, if you ever tried to take a photo with a tripod, with your tripod in the sand, when the wave pulls out, it pulls the sand with it. And if you're doing a long exposure, your camera's going to move with it too, just a little bit, but enough to ruin your exposure, a spike allows you to anchor the legs in rock claw feet also, I often do photography out.

And, you know, rocky terrain, rubber feet will not give you the grip. You need these rock claw feet will, will, I mean, they will basically latch onto anything. So it's not just the tripod for me. It there's, there's a bit more of a, of a additional accessory can considerations that I make. And it just so happens that really write stuff, they make, they make them all for me.

So there you go. That's great. I've 

NEIL: never heard of those types of feet before, but I guess not being in that business Barney's going to show us now. 

BRIAN: It would help [00:50:00] to see. So that's all right. That's cool. I mean, for the podcast people, you should just tune into. Neil's YouTube channel. This is a spike foot.

So let me, let me get this going to focus. There it is. Oh wow. Okay. Yeah, it's legit. Like this is a, it's a spike. You could do so down with that, and then this is, you can, and you wanna make sure, especially with a rock claw foot that you take this off when you go inside, so you can kind of see. 

NEIL: Oh, right.

Okay. 

BRIAN: This will ruin a wood floor. So you take these off when you go inside, but having those things are, is, I mean, that, that's saved my bacon on a lot of shoots because rubber feet, like I said, are great for most things, but when you're out in the field and you need grip and you need traction, You need the right tool for that.

NEIL: Yeah, and you certainly don't want your 3, 000, 3, 500 lens camera combo tilting and [00:51:00] smashing over just because the tripod's lost it. And I've I've only ever dropped a camera once. And I did break the lens and it was purely because of that. And it was the tripod. Some of these tripods have the, the legs where you twist.

You know, and you think you think the level and then unfortunately it wasn't and it just slides and it's just a horrible moment, isn't it? When it's like, oh, no, that's it. Yeah, it's gone. So yeah, it can be very expensive mistake. That's why camera insurance, I guess, is so, so high depending on what you do.

That's right. Last couple of things then, because I know we're getting close to our time. So a couple of things that I always have with me, and I'm going to this camera as well, is never leave home without, you know, Your blower, because you will get dust in your lenses, you will get dust in your, potentially in your sensor, and some of the newer cameras have the ability to actually close the, the shutter in front of the lens, so when you're taking, sorry, in front of the sensor, so when you're taking the lenses off, you can actually [00:52:00] have the, have the sensor completely covered, so you're not going to get any dust in there, but that, that is a problem, but always take your, Your blower with you just in case.

I mean, this has saved me a lot, particularly with dust, and you should never really wipe Hugo as well. That looks a bit more fancy. Is that, is it, what's that on the end of it? Not the not the blower bit, but the other, oh, it's a, it, it looks like, yeah, it's just like a blimp. 

BRIAN: Yeah. These things used to be the bane of photographer's existence traveling via air.

People or the security agents hated these things. But I think they've gotten used to them. 

NEIL: What the, what through, you mean through security, you mean? 

BRIAN: Yeah, because the way it came up, it caused all kinds of red or threw up red flags. I've had numerous ones of these confiscated and I tried to, it blows air.

Like literally the problem is it's called a rocket blower. And so that's not the best thing, you know, but no, I've had, I've had numerous times confiscated, but [00:53:00] fortunately they're not. Terribly expensive. Right. 

NEIL: Last thing on my list was excuse me, one second. List was the ND filters. So this is my oh, show the right camera. This is my too many cameras. So this is a, a PolarPro ND filter. I've got two of these. This one is a nine to six stop ND. And then I've got the, I think it's a two to Five, something like that. I can't remember which one it is.

But that's a polar pro one. And I always have these with me. I also have a polarizer filter as well, which I guess is very useful to have you have a ND filters. You must have a multitude of ND filters. Do you have a variable? Do you have fixed? Oh, right. So you have fixed fixed ND for 

BRIAN: each? Well, it's That's an interesting question.

I have nd filters, but without a doubt my most important filter is a polarizer. And so this is a linear polarizer. I wonder if it'll, if I can engage it on camera, kind of, yeah. Okay. Yeah. The [00:54:00] polarizer, yeah. By far I, if I can only take one filter, I all the, I'd throw all my undies away. I need a polarizer.

So this is a linear and this is a circular. Right. For, you know, generally when people hear that there are two types, they, they get this consternation, like, wait, well, what's the difference? You, if you're using a mirrorless camera, you should probably get a linear polarizer. The reason why circular polarizers exist is because when DSLRs started gaining popularity, linear polarizers were what people were using primarily back then.

Back then, like, you know, like 15 years ago. But linear polarizers messed with the metering systems of DSLRs. So to fix that, people came up with circular polarizers. In actuality, you're, you're fine using either, but linear polarizers will work They're just better for mirrorless cameras, because But you won't, it's not like you're gonna lose out on anything, but to [00:55:00] answer your question, if I stack the circ, the linear on top of the, the circular, let me see if it'll, if it'll show, do you, do you see those numbers over there?

Yeah. In the yeah, so, so the, the, it turns it into a variable ND filter, so I can actually rotate, and, and I don't know if you caught it, but these are Yeah. And this is a magnetic system. I use it. Maven filters. That's who I, I absolutely love these guys. Like I didn't think you can innovate filters, but these guys truly innovated filters because of the way they you can identify your filter just by touching them.

They have different kinds of gnarled edges or different colors, right? Yeah. Like you can, so yeah, like this, this, Yeah, this is a three stop because it's got three little etches, then there's six and then ten. It's just, and the quality of the glass is, is phenomenal. So 

NEIL: yeah. Well, that's the thing, right?

You don't want to pay 2, 000 for a nice lens and then slap a 20 polarizer filter on there and wonder why you're getting bad [00:56:00] results. I mean, I've got a, I got a, bought a circular polarizer filter only about six months ago because I just saw a few videos on how they can enhance the, the contrast and reduce some of the highlights and obviously if you're doing and to stop reflections from car glass windows, all kinds of really interesting things that it can do that I never, never knew about.

So yeah, I've been playing around with a circular polarizer filter as well. And it's great. I mean, for specific, specifically for that, sort of giving you that extra contrast in the sky and so on. It's really good. 

BRIAN: Yes. And the reflections. 

NEIL: Alright, before we close up, any other bits and pieces that you have in your camera bag that you could not live without, apart from water and batteries and all kinds of things like that that you would take? 

BRIAN: Yeah, batteries and SD cards, that's not, I mean, that's kind of par for the course, but, you know, like, I travel with these things all the time.

This is a sensor cleaning swab kit. And there's a solution that goes with it where you, [00:57:00] you kind of put a few drops of the solution on the swab. And it's, it's funny how I think for some reason, sensor cleaning has become this, this like there's like this, not a, not a stigma, but like people are terrified about it.

Like they think they're going to destroy their camera in actuality. It's like one of the easiest things. Like it, it, it hurts my soul when I see people who pay good money to ship their camera to the manufacturer or to a company to do a sensor cleaning. Like if the sensor is damaged or it's really gunked up, sure.

But if you notice that you've got a fiber on your phone, you know, on the sensor, It's super easy to clean. And then I also have this thing. If you're kind of really not into cleaning, it's like, it's the stick. And it has, I I've got it in its case right now. Cause I don't want to expose it, but it's basically like a sticky jelly end and it's made for sensors.

So like if you have a fiber or dust [00:58:00] spot on your sensor that you can see, and you don't want to waste a swab, you just take this thing and you just. Just dab it and it's not going to damage the sensor at all. And so the, the offending thing will stick to this. And then it comes with these paper strips that you take the thing off.

It's, it's great. That's cool.

NEIL: Yeah, so I need to definitely get a hold of one of those. sensor cleaning. Thankfully, I've only had one problem and 90 percent of the time this thing gets rid of most of the stuff. But but for lenses as well you can use that for lenses of course, there's no problem. Oh, and let me just go to your, oh, just a lens wipe.

All right. Okay. 

BRIAN: These are brilliant for lenses. 

NEIL: Never leave home with them. 

BRIAN: No, absolutely not. I, yeah, I, you can buy a box of like 500 of them for not much money. Highly recommend it. 

NEIL: Excellent. So I have one last question for you, and this is a tough one. You have a project that you have to go to tomorrow, but you're not 100 [00:59:00] percent sure what it is.

But, so it's a, it's a photo, it's a photography shoot. You're not sure what, whether you're shooting a bunch of people, a landscape, a car, whatever it might be. You can only take one camera. On one lens, what would it be? 

BRIAN: Oh, wow. Yep. It would be the R5 for the, so I can have resolution. I would take the 24 70mm f2.

8. That's the 24 70mm f2. 8 is like one of the, just if you can only have one lens, it's, it gets you wide enough. It gets you long enough. It has a fixed f2. 8 aperture. So, 

you get a reasonable separation. Yeah, it's, it's this guy right here. Like this is a beast. It's such a good lens. And this is the Mark I.

I believe there's a Mark II of this. But that would be my, that would be it. R5 with with the 24 72. 8. 

NEIL: On the A7R5, because we don't want to confuse [01:00:00] people with the Canon R5, because you haven't switched cameras. That's right. Thank you. Yeah, you're correct. Yeah, yeah. But isn't he a Sony user? But there you go.

Yeah. I know that these cameras, Labels are just very, very confusing. I mean, this has been fun and so many other questions I want to ask, but we're going to be, we're going to be running out of time, but we'll save it for another show. We are here virtually every week, unless something goes horribly wrong, like monitors breaking and things like that.

 Thanks for everybody. Who's joined today for all your questions. It's really nice to. To see you joining us on this Tuesday evening. And as I said, this is going to be well, it is an audio podcast as well. So if you do not want to see our faces, you're more than welcome to go and download the audio accompaniment of this as well.

So come back next week for more fun stuff. In the meantime, thank you very much for everybody who's joined. Enjoy your rest of your day and see you next [01:01:00] week.