Unmasking Sobriety (My Journey): A Tale of Friendship, Recovery, and Resilience

Ever found yourself at a crossroads where the bottle you once considered a friend became your fiercest foe? That's the story of my life I've unfolded in the safe haven of the Sober Boozers Club. With Greg and Jay, we pull back the curtain on a narrative of addiction, the havoc it wreaked on my life and relationships, and the journey towards sobriety that began on a pivotal January day in 2022. This intimate chat isn't just about the low moments; it's a celebration of the clarity and personal growth found in the wake of putting down the glass.

As we navigate through the ebbs and flows of my recovery, Greg and Jay don't just sit on the sidelines. They're in the trenches with me, sharing their own thoughts and revelations about what it means to truly support a friend through addiction. Their stories shine a light on the delicate dance of loyalty and tough love. But it's not all heavy hearts and soul-searching—our banter takes us through the laughable exploits of yesteryears, the camaraderie over non-alcoholic brews, and the shared joy of beating each other at Fortnite as evidence of enduring bonds.

Brace yourself for a raw exploration of the myths and ongoing challenges that course through the veins of a sober life. We tear down the stereotypes and toast—with alcohol-free beer in hand—to the silent revolutions within ourselves and within our friendships. It's a testament to the transformative power of struggle and the resilience of the human spirit. So tune in, pour yourself a tipple, and join the club where honesty isn't just a policy—it's the only way to fly.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome to the Sober Boozer Club podcast, a place where we can talk openly and honestly about addiction, sobriety and, strangely enough, beer. I'm Ben, I'm an alcoholic and for the last two years I've been sampling some of the finest alcohol-free beers the world has to offer. Each week I'll be joined by a different guest to discuss their own lived experiences on all things related to the world of low and no alcohol beverages. So pour yourself a tipple, relax and let me welcome you to the Sober Boozers Club. Hello and welcome to episode one of the Sober Boozers Club podcast. I say it's episode one, but I'd rather you look at this episode as a pilot, and that's with very good reason, whilst in future episodes I'll be joined by a number of guests from the beverage industry and the sober community. In this episode it's essentially myself and my two best friends sat around a microphone talking about my own sober journey. So before we get into that, I kind of want to delve into that a little bit and explain to you how I got here, so that you can get to know me and I can get to know you.

Speaker 1: 1:10

My relationship with alcohol wasn't one that lasted a very long time, really. I didn't start drinking until my mid-twenties and I stopped drinking before I turned thirty. But whilst I was relying on alcohol, it was incredibly dangerous for myself and for people around me. I suppose I first noticed that I was leaning towards booze a little more than I would have usually been when I started working late shifts and I was using it to get to sleep and to feel like I was living a normal life. I was married at the time and it was around this period that that relationship kind of started to fall apart and at the same time I felt like there might be somebody else involved, and just that kind of feeling allowed me to hit the fuck it button in my brain, where I would then begin drinking most days. And it's important at this point to stress that my addiction is my own fault. It isn't the fault of anybody else. We can look at these things that happen to us and we can figure out, maybe, why we might have acted a certain way or why it may have led us down this path, but our actions are our own and I think it's really important to remember that. Anyway, the next two years are an absolute clusterfuck and I'm going to try to surmise as quickly as I can, because otherwise we'll be here all fucking day.

Speaker 1: 2:37

So relationship inevitably comes to an end. My ex moves on with somebody else. I'm resentful, I'm angry. I'm not dealing with it. Well, I'm trying to by drinking every day. I'll blame everybody but myself, because of course I will and then things do start to get better, or I feel like they're getting better. I've got new friends, drinking buddies. I'm going out occasionally, but I'm not drinking every day. However, when I do, then it's probably to the stage of being blackout drunk and then we enter lockdown and by this point I feel like I've got my drinking under control.

Speaker 1: 3:12

I'm still fuming with the world for everything that it's done to me, because, of course, none of it was my fault. But I'm kind of in a new relationship now, and it's a relationship that should never have happened. Really, it should have stuck at a one night stand and not gone any further, for the sake of me and for the sake of her. But of course it did. We were in lockdown. What else were we going to do? Oh, I know We'll drink every day, because that's what I did during lockdown, but it felt okay because it was kind of like a festival, wasn't it? Everyone was doing it. It doesn't make us alcoholics. It just means that we're enjoying ourselves, because what the fuck else is there to do in the world? So lockdown comes to an end. Me and this person move in together. Because why wouldn't we?

Speaker 1: 3:52

I felt like somebody finally wanted me again. That I didn't think would ever happen. So I was clinging onto that. I hadn't dealt with any of my issues. I hadn't dealt with any of my emotional baggage. I didn't know how to other than booze. And then that started to form cracks because of course it did, because I was a horrible person. So what did I do? Oh, I started drinking more heavily.

Speaker 1: 4:13

Only this time, when I was drinking, I was horrible. I was a repulsive person to be around. I was nasty, I was mean, and it wasn't just to her, it was to my friends as well. So we'd go on nights out because the world had opened up and I'd drink, but I'd be nasty and I'd never been nasty before. It was a shock to me. Well, I'm not this person, I'm not nasty, it must be the booze.

Speaker 1: 4:36

Yet I carry on drinking, and time and time again. This would be the cycle until one night, on the 8th of January 2022, it happened again, only this time everybody was in the same room and everybody saw exactly how I was when I was drunk, and everybody was shocked and disgusted, and rightfully so, because this had been a culmination of events that got me there and everybody was there to see it. So what was I to do? Well, you stop drinking, don't you? I woke up at 5.30 the next day and decided this has to be it, because at this point nobody was ever going to talk to me again, and it took two years for some of these people to come back. And I'm at a point now where everybody that was present in that room that I care about is back in my life and they can look at what happened and they can say it wasn't okay, but it wasn't you. And I didn't believe that it ever was me deep down. But I carried on drinking. And this is kind of the statement that made me realise that I am an alcoholic and I can't control my drinking. And the dream of moderation had to go is that I knew who I was when I was drunk, but I would drink anyway. So that's a very brief breakdown of my descent into alcoholism.

Speaker 1: 6:11

What does life look like for me now? Well, I'm a fucking cliche, to be honest. I got promoted at work, I bought a new car, I bought a new house. I'm in a relationship with the best person I have ever had the pleasure of meeting. In a relationship with the best person I have ever had the pleasure of meeting. I'm happier than I've ever been and I feel like I've got the version of myself back that existed before all of this happened, when I could genuinely look in the mirror and think you're an okay person.

Speaker 1: 6:37

And the two people that are going to join me very shortly in this conversation are two people that stuck with me through all of that.

Speaker 1: 6:46

And this is just a conversation that we've had thousands of times over the past two years at various points, and I thought it would be really nice to to document it and to get it down as this kind of pilot episode, because it's important to talk about these things with your friends, and I think sometimes the friends around you are forgotten about, but they're also the people that can make you look at these situations and see them for what they were, rather than what your brain is telling you they were, because alcoholics or at least me as an alcoholic I will belittle myself constantly and when I look back at these periods of my life, it's nothing but shame.

Speaker 1: 7:28

But the fact of the matter is some of these times weren't on me. You know other people do bad things to you too, and that's okay. That's a part of life. It doesn't make you any less accountable, but it's important to remember, and it's also important to start to forgive yourself after a period of time. That's one of the biggest things that one of my friends has ever said to me was that I'm so proud of you, but the thing I'm the most proud of you for is that you've forgiven yourself whilst remaining accountable. So I really do hope you enjoy this chat and you enjoy this episode. I'm Ben, I'm an alcoholic, and today I'm joined by Greg, who is the posh one, and Jay, who is the one that sounds not so posh. This genuinely feels really fucking weird doing this with you two, but hello both.

Speaker 2: 8:20

Hello.

Speaker 1: 8:21

This feels like an intervention. Somehow it is Ben, it is Two years too. Somehow it is.

Speaker 3: 8:24

Ben.

Speaker 1: 8:25

Two years too late. How are we both?

Speaker 3: 8:28

first of all, Very well, thank you, tired Tired. Yeah, that's all right. I think it's kind of the time of the year, isn't it?

Speaker 1: 8:35

Everybody seems to be quite sleepy at the moment. Thank you both for agreeing to do this. I thought it would make an interesting episode, mainly because I think the friends of alcoholics are maybe ignored a little bit, or we talk about them within the community as kind of the people that leave us behind. Um, but of course, you two didn't do that, did you? Why is that?

Speaker 3: 8:59

um, it's a very good question. I'm having second thoughts right now. No, it was a really difficult period and obviously for me personally, watching it happen across years of being there and our friendship group and all that stuff group and all that stuff um, it was just once it had happened and had time to reflect. It's about what your friends mean to you and realizing that your friend is in a lot of pain. That isn't his fault and he just needs help and support to get better really, and support is what people need in that situation.

Speaker 1: 9:49

Yeah, I think that's kind of. It's one of the things, isn't it Like you don't realise when you're in it that you're kind of spiralling, because to me it feels like it was a really quick transition from like a normal jolly drinker to suddenly I'm a mess. But it probably I mean definitely for you, greg, it probably didn't come across like that well, there was quite a few attempts to stop the drinks with the alcohol in them.

Speaker 2: 10:17

Um, and I think definitely that time it was like well, now it, now it's got to stop. So you know, you've got to support that. Throwing it over to you, Ben, what was in terms of the things you tried for stopping before is? You tried a few different things and it just didn't stick.

Speaker 1: 10:41

Yeah, I don't think I really wanted to, if I'm honest. So I I joined aa, um, and I did that purely so I could moderate um, which is ridiculous, isn't it? I kind of I thought, oh, if I go to aa, people will see that I'm trying to moderate my drinking and then I'll be able to drink like a normal person, um, and that just didn't work. And the other thing was just flat out denial. Obviously, with everything that had happened, like in my personal life, I kind of felt like, you know, I wasn't an alcoholic, I was just going through a rough patch, um, and that I could kind of kick it and then, obviously, the the relationship that followed happened and that was just terrible.

Speaker 1: 11:22

Um, and I think it's kind of with alcoholism, once you're in it, it's like you've got it, it's a disease, it's like you can't have a little bit of cancer. You either have cancer or you don't, and alcoholism is the same. Once I was in there, that was that. But yeah, trying to stop or trying to convince other people that I was trying to stop was just a. It was a foolish act really, but I don't really know why I stopped when I did. I mean, I know that, you know that last evening was very dramatic, but I don't know why that triggered a kind of right no, no more.

Speaker 1: 12:01

Like I'll never know why I woke up that day and didn't.

Speaker 3: 12:04

I think it was the um the reflection, I think I think, it was such a traumatic evening, uh, in many ways, and it was complete self-destruction and I think it was. I think it was that destruction which kind of birthed something better afterwards like jesus, yes, exactly, or a phoenix yeah, it's very easter, isn't it?

Speaker 1: 12:33

okay, yeah, it's topical well right now this isn't going out for a year, but yeah, I know what you mean. It was very. I woke up that day at like half five the day after and was just like I have got nothing, because at the time I didn't feel like I did. So it was like, okay, what can we do here? Do you want to die? No, I actually don't this time around, so the only thing I could think to do was go and get some lucky saints.

Speaker 3: 13:06

It was difficult for the weeks that followed, for me personally, because I didn't know where I stood. My partner at the time was front and centre of the night and, to be honest, really didn't want anything to do with you and that put me into a place where do I support my friend or support my partner in her decision? And it was really, really difficult. Yeah, and I had so many things going on of like the feelings of trust, mistrust in it and being caught up in it and feeling confused in myself, and it took a while and a lot of reflection to work out what was the best course of action was the best course of action and really I remember sitting there thinking through it all and missing spending time with you and realizing what had happened to you and also the guilt that was in me.

Speaker 1: 14:24

I still hold the guilt that maybe I could have stepped in a little bit sooner and and brought it up I think that's the thing, though, like I think a lot of people will will probably have this, like with with loved ones that have gone through it and it's like, oh, but and I say this all the time to like nobody will stop for anybody else, like I don't care who you are, you don't stop drinking for your kids.

Speaker 1: 14:49

You don't stop drinking for your wife, you don't stop drinking for your friends, like you do it for yourself. And it sounds so clichéd, but at the time when I was drinking, when my drinking was at its worst, I was in a relationship with someone that I felt like I wanted to be in a relationship with, but it was just toxic and I put that down to booze. Yet I didn't stop drinking booze, you know, and I saw friendships kind of starting to dissolve a little bit, but I still didn't stop drinking because of it. So it was, you know, it's not on anybody else.

Speaker 3: 15:27

I mean throughout life. I've had relationships and friendships and loved ones around me where their drinking is a really serious detrimental problem in our relationship and it's really difficult dealing with that. Because you you can try and in my experience, confronting them and talking to them about it is usually met with the response of how dare you say that to me?

Speaker 1: 16:07

Yeah, straight up denial, um about it is usually met with the response of um, how dare you um say that to me? Yeah, straight up denial Like no, no, no, I'm fine, I'm fine and but, but it's not fine is it, but it's.

Speaker 3: 16:15

It has the effect where you stop.

Speaker 1: 16:26

You stop trying to talk to them about it and hope that it kind of resolves itself. And sometimes it does. Sometimes, uh, unfortunately it doesn't. Yeah, I think like being around the people that we were around and this isn't a slight on those people, um, but you know, drink drugs. It was a part of the culture and if you're susceptible to addiction and that's like you're in real trouble with that, and I think surrounding yourself with those types of people can be so dangerous to certain individuals and I think with you two being in the band as well, where you're in the environment and it's kind of it comes hand in hand in a way that the the levels of excess and drinking and drugs.

Speaker 3: 17:06

It kind of goes with the music and the culture.

Speaker 1: 17:09

Um, yeah, I remember playing gigs and greg not really being that game to like stick around because it's like, well, the gig's done, now I want to go home and me being like how can you want to go, how can you want to leave? Look at all the, all the stuff that's here you just want to network.

Speaker 3: 17:23

Yeah, yeah, yeah, network.

Speaker 2: 17:25

I suppose your drinking was I don't know if this is a term, but session drinking, yeah, and once you're in that situation and you're on the session and you're going for it, whereas I never cared for the session, really, I just like music. But I think you're a different person on the drink yeah, massively.

Speaker 1: 17:56

It's grey area drinking, so I could I could, you know go a few days without a drink and not really think about it. But if I had one, then that was it. That was the end for me. I mean, what's the point in having just one, like why would you have a beer?

Speaker 3: 18:12

The one moment that always sticks in my head. We were having drinks in your garden, yeah, and you were completely and utterly sober. In my eyes, it seemed within about 10 minutes you went to complete extremes of couldn't walk, and I think that's honestly the first moment where I went oh okay, something possibly isn't quite right here, because it was beyond drinking it was. It was drinking to self-destruct.

Speaker 1: 18:51

Yeah, cause that was just. That would have been just after lockdown, when it kind of opened up, but of course that wasn't my first kind of dance with the booze and obviously Greg has lived with me for too long.

Speaker 2: 19:04

Some would say no, you became an oblivion drinker quite a while before that, maybe when you switched to lights at work.

Speaker 1: 19:15

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 19:15

You. Suddenly you'd get back and then I'd look at my whiskey and it would be empty and, like I say, it's oblivion drinking it's. You'd have another, just say you were wiped out, and then you could sleep, it seemed yeah, I think it it did.

Speaker 1: 19:38

it started like that. I mean it kind of it got to a level where I was like aware of it and I thought okay, no, let's stop this. Now, At that level, like the swigging from the bottle or like drinking to the point of pass out, I kind of nipped that in the bud completely for a while and it was like okay, no, we're not going down this path. And then obviously things fell apart relationship-wise and, as that was kind of happening, it was like okay, well, what's the point in not drinking? Like why would I not want to drink? And then things got really out of hand and then I felt like things kind of got better. Covid started and it was kind of drink every day. But it felt good to drink every day and it wasn't problematic or it didn't feel problematic.

Speaker 2: 20:33

like you know, I wasn't nasty or I didn't think I was nasty. It felt like a European holiday, didn't it?

Speaker 1: 20:38

Yeah, it was lovely and then I kind of felt like I'd addressed my relationship with booze at that point, but of course I hadn't, because once the world opened up, I mean it's just, it's ridiculous. I look at the things that happened and I'm like what, like it doesn't feel like me, like going off in a sulk because I lost at bowling. Yeah, yes.

Speaker 1: 21:00

I remember it very well, what was that about? I can't even tell you now what that was about. I remember being really annoyed that I wasn't doing very well and I think it was a fragile masculinity in me that I was losing.

Speaker 2: 21:19

And I was doing very well.

Speaker 1: 21:23

Well, I know what happened. Champagne came around, it did from in the space of about half an hour all of a sudden. I can't remember all of it, but I know I was being really salty. And then I'd spend the rest of the evening trying to make it better because I knew I'd been an idiot. And then, once I realised that wasn't going to happen, it was kind of like right, double down, and I think that was my first like tantrum.

Speaker 3: 21:51

Yeah, that was the first time when I thought it was potentially dangerous in a way and it could escalate like in certain ways, escalate like in certain ways um.

Speaker 1: 22:12

It was really really difficult seeing um my, my friend in in that situation. It's scary.

Speaker 3: 22:14

I can imagine it was, it was and it was.

Speaker 2: 22:17

It was heartbreaking really, uh, to see that happening to your mate and well, just in those moments, a complete irrationality to your thoughts, which is impossible to deal with.

Speaker 1: 22:35

Yeah, I can remember the last night I drank being stood in your kitchen, jay, and someone talking to me and saying like oh, I'm done with you. And I can remember I don't know how to describe it, but I can remember feeling like my eyes were different and I knew how my face looked and I was just staring at this guy and in my brain it was like I'm gonna fucking spark him out. Obviously I was never gonna do that. Well, I don't know, but in my brain, thinking that. But then there was another voice in my head saying look at you, like who are you? Um, and it's, it's weird, like there was a level of self-awareness there that was disgusted with it, but it's just like an autopilot mode.

Speaker 1: 23:23

But I was convinced, like throughout the whole period, like I didn't think I was a bad person, but I knew I was acting like one. Yeah, and it was like you know, this alcohol is a lubricant for these actions and there's a reason I'm acting like this and it needs addressing. And I don't know what that is, but we'll get to the bottom of it. But we can't get to the bottom of it whilst booze is in the picture. That's it, because every time something problematic comes up if I'm drunk, I'm gonna act a certain way and like, that's when you've just got to cut ties because, like, if you know this about yourself but you continue to drink, then are you a bad person possibly there's also, as well as in the moment of being drunk, the fragility the next morning led to, uh, I suppose, a enhanced version of insecurities, which just leads to more irrational thinking.

Speaker 2: 24:23

yeah, and then it's an endless cycle, isn't it? Yeah, it was quite, it was quite a dangerous uh, which just leads to more irrational thinking, and then it's an endless cycle, isn't it?

Speaker 1: 24:27

Yeah, it was quite a dangerous few months really, well, years, I suppose, when you look at it in the grand scheme of things. But I mean two years deep now into the sobriety journey. What have you noticed externally? And this isn't me trying to get praise, but tell me how fucking great I am.

Speaker 2: 24:50

Well, I haven't wanted to punch you for two years Me neither Whereas I definitely did on many nights, especially towards the end of your drinking journey. And also that was me being drunk as well, and I've hardly drank now. I don't really enjoy it, but I think, especially if we were both drunk, I would yeah, it's just not good, is it no?

Speaker 3: 25:24

I've just noticed that you look completely different and hold yourself completely different. It's even like your skin is clear.

Speaker 1: 25:34

I'm glowing you are.

Speaker 3: 25:36

You've had a booze-free glow up. It's quite incredible, but it's like you look better and you hold yourself so much better. This is the potential that was being held back by the alcohol and what it made you. Yeah, sorry, jake I was just going to say how bloody proud I am. Yes, this is why you're both here. Yes, yeah because it's amazing You've changed life around in so many ways and become a better person because of it.

Speaker 2: 26:18

It's inspiring. I was going to say, I think one thing that's changed massively, I suppose, just in terms of being around you, a lot, from living with you. So I used to have to give you a pep talk every bloody five minutes, yeah, and I haven't had to really do that much for the last two years. Obviously, for the first few months there was just a lot of deep conversation and tough love, I suppose. But now that you're sober and that's just what you are I feel like you've got a healthier relationship with your mind.

Speaker 1: 26:58

Yeah, I think now it's kind of like I've realised that there's a few like there's things that I needed to address for years, like deep-seated things that I needed to address for years, like deep-seated things that really needed addressing. But now it's like, okay, no, we're working through this. So you know, sometimes something will happen. And immediately that voice comes into my head or it's like oh, this is happening, this is wrong, but I've got the clarity to go. No, that's a silly thought. Like park that or actually actually let that thought out and say this is what just came into my head, this is ridiculous. And like break it down, compartmentalize it.

Speaker 1: 27:35

Um, whereas that, fueled with booze, these situations that you invent in your. Well, I was mad. I was mad, like there's no other way to put it, and I mean you both witnessed that multiple times on nights out, and I think like let's well, this is risky, but let's delve into that a little bit, because I think the reason I kind of wanted you guys on was so that we could explore my own sobriety journey a little bit and kind of what got me there, because if anyone's going to listen to any of this podcast, I think it's fair to you know, be completely open about my own journey. Um so, roast me boys, roast you.

Speaker 3: 28:16

Um, in what sense should I roast you? I think before, when you, when you were, uh, drinking, um, you were you were kind of like a sure thing. I could message you and be like, shall we go to the pub, stuff like that. I know that 99% of the time you'd probably say yes, even if you had to work in the morning and stuff like that. Yeah, yes, even if you had to work in the morning and stuff like that. So it was kind of knowing that like that was our relationship in going out and then going out it wasn't all the time, but sometimes it would be to like an excess, like in the time I have a pint, you would have two. Yeah, um, stuff like that, um, but since sobriety, um, it's a flaky mask, but it's good.

Speaker 3: 29:20

It's, of course it's. It's good because it means that you're prioritizing other things in your life apart from alcohol, yeah, and you're not using alcohol as like a conduit to feeling better.

Speaker 1: 29:34

It also means that actually the time that I spend with my friends is is good time spent um, because before, like occasionally, I'd want to see my friends. But if it was, shall we go for coffee? I probably wouldn't have gone to 90 of the gatherings. But because we were going to the pub, it was like oh yes, there's things I like there, um, so yes, I'll go, whereas now it's kind of, if I'm doing something socially, it's because I want to see my pals and I want to do things.

Speaker 3: 30:08

And I've picked up on that and it's just nice. I know we go to the pub to watch the football and stuff like that. It's just nice being able to go and it's like a meaningful experience of us sitting there and enjoying something that we both like. Yeah, and talk about how terribly we're doing in fantasy football, but it's knowing that your brain's actually there.

Speaker 1: 30:36

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 30:36

And because you're not drinking, I don't want to drink.

Speaker 1: 30:40

That was a question I had for you both. Actually, I know Greg has publicly declared his lack of booze partaking no, not to an absolute no.

Speaker 2: 30:52

Of course not. Who the fuck would want to do that?

Speaker 1: 30:55

not me. Do you think that my sobriety has had an impact on your lack of drinking?

Speaker 2: 31:04

yeah. I think so. Especially, it's hard to base things around lockdown, because lockdown was its own thing, yeah, so obviously we've been stuck in the house and we get a massive pack of those yellow and green beers, 48 pilsners.

Speaker 1: 31:24

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 31:30

It'd last a day. I mean, I'd never. I I tended to go up to six tops, um, but I would add a massive, I think, dependency just on the flavor, um, not necessarily the being drunk, because I actually hate being drunk, but now that you're not drinking and it's not the sort of ah, let's have a couple of beers. I don't know, it must have affected it. I think I stopped drinking it for many reasons and for the fact I started to look like a bowling pin, which I still do. So if that's the reason you're stopping, then don't. It doesn't work. Um, um, no, you probably should. It's the crisps as well that are doing it for me.

Speaker 1: 32:14

So well, this is. You know there are some myths with sobriety. Like you raised um the whole skin thing and my skin definitely looks better now, but it didn't happen overnight. And what made me laugh was you saying you know you used to stay out late drinking even though you've got work the next day. And then here I am, thinking in my head I can't wait to finish recording this podcast so we can play Fortnite even though I'm at work tomorrow.

Speaker 1: 32:42

I told you guys, I need to go to bed at 10, but I'm definitely going gonna be up until at least midnight, even though I need to wake up, that's.

Speaker 2: 32:50

That's the next podcast.

Speaker 1: 32:53

I'll come back in a couple of years with that one. Um, you do raise a good point though, with you know the kind of addictions that come with alcoholism. I was talking talking to someone on this very series actually recently. That episode will be out soon, I don't know when because I don't plan these things, but we were talking about gambling addiction and he said, oh, thank goodness I never got into gambling and I was just like I did, and that kind of came hand in hand with my addiction to the booze, because it was something to do in the pub when none of you guys were free to to join me. So I didn't feel like a loser being stood in in a weatherspoons on my own. It somehow felt much more preferable to be stood on a slot machine, because at least I had an activity. Um, so you know, I think, well, I mean, I was addicted to soft mints in school as well, so I think it's. You know it's.

Speaker 3: 33:44

Well, I mean, I was addicted to soft mints in school as well, so I think it's it's an addictive personality across a long period of time, the red flags were always there yeah, I remember being stood in Wetherspoons with you watching you put 20 pound notes into a fruit machine and being like Ben Ben, you can stop. It was going to pay out eventually notes into a fruit machine and be like Ben Ben, you can stop, ben.

Speaker 1: 34:08

It was going to pay out eventually, them damn pigs. Oh yeah, it was the pigs. This was when it was. Oh my god, that's even more depressing. It wasn't even the computerised machines, it was like the ones that pay £20 jackpot. Oh, that's miserable, and that was so long ago.

Speaker 3: 34:26

Yeah, it feels long. Why did none of you warn me?

Speaker 1: 34:31

We tried Ben.

Speaker 2: 34:42

No, I think that period of going into pubs and gambling and drinking, because I'd come along occasionally just because it was like I'll have a pint, and it was incredibly depressing, yeah, and we'd talk about it. And, as we said earlier, if someone's addicted, you can't just say you need to stop, and then I'd be like, oh yeah, i't just say you need to stop and then I'll be like, oh yeah, I do, I do need to stop. It has to be a switch that clicks in the um addict's head, um, and you, you can't, you can't just do that on a, on a whim, um, but we spoke about all those things a lot and also with alcohol, we spoke about that a lot and when you were trying to quit through the nhs, yeah, we chat about it and then you talk about whether or not you could eventually just have a couple of pints and it was like don't know if that's that's a place, and obviously it turns out that that wasn't really a way for you to do.

Speaker 1: 35:42

It had to be cut it yeah, I think, um, like I was, I was definitely sold on the dream of moderation and um, what I found really dangerous was that kind of the nhs told me to not stop drinking overnight because for a lot of alcoholics it's really fucking dangerous to just stop drinking because withdrawals can kill you. My drinking wasn't that bad. I could probably have a pint now. My drinking wasn't that bad. I was a grey area drinker. For me to stop overnight wouldn't have been dangerous. But the worst thing that they could have said to me was that you can't stop drinking overnight. Um, and I understand why they said that to me because you know they this was just over the phone and at the time I was talking to them I was kind of really down about myself and I was a, an alcoholic because that's what I'd been branded. But hearing that I had to slowly cut down was such a good reason to not cut down because I could pretend that I was trying to yeah, did you have.

Speaker 3: 36:58

Do you remember the first time someone labelled you as an alcoholic?

Speaker 1: 37:02

Yes, it was my ex-wife.

Speaker 3: 37:04

It was your ex-wife.

Speaker 1: 37:05

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 3: 37:06

What about a medical professional?

Speaker 1: 37:09

Medical professional. No, to be honest with you, I used to tell them that I didn't drink. Yeah, the first time a medical professional probably referred to me as an alcoholic was when I told them that I didn't drink at all. Mm, when I went to the doctors about a year ago and I said nothing, but I said that quite assertively and they said is there a reason for that? And I was struggling with it a little bit and they said were you an alcoholic or are you an alcoholic? And I was like yeah, and weirdly I didn't feel small about that, it was quite liberating.

Speaker 1: 38:02

And then I had to go to the a filling once and I was so hungover that her, like the metal tools were sticking to my lips because they were so dry and I must have stank. So yeah, that was. That was the first time that I was embarrassed about my alcoholism was in the dentist that day. But no, I don't think I was ever branded an alcoholic by a doctor or anyone like that. I was in hospital once for what we thought was appendicitis and I heard a doctor telling a patient in the kind of bed next to me that they were an alcoholic and they were drinking too much. And even then I kind of thought to myself oh, I drink as much as that guy, so you know it's wild when you look at it.

Speaker 3: 38:55

Yeah, I ask because I was speaking. I spoke to you before we started this podcast. A thought came to my head of um when I I was in a, uh, a car accident and they needed my medical documents. So I received my medical documents and read through them all, um, just out of interest and intrigue of what, what I don't remember from like when I was a kid and stuff like that. But then I came across this page during a hospital stay where they refer to me as something like a perpetual binge drinker and I remember sitting there and going, oh, oh, is that what people thought of me like then? And then I I reflected upon it, um, looking back to that time when I was 17, 18, um when it happened. And yeah, like I've suffered from depression. My whole life and around that period was quite turbulent and traumatic and had my heart broken. And at that time, when you're you're a kid and all your friends are starting drinking and stuff, yeah, and I used to.

Speaker 3: 40:30

I remembered it when I read this document, I used to go out to Weatherspoons and get absolutely annihilated, yeah blackout drinking.

Speaker 3: 40:39

It made me feel better and made me forget that. And there was this one occasion I went to Weatherspoons and I think I went through an ungodly amount of wine and cocktails and beers. And I remember passing out in the car park around the back of Weatherspoons and being found by the bar manager who took me to hospital. And even in my blackout drunk state I still remember my mum coming into the hospital and all these thoughts were repressed by me and I never thought like it was. I was embarrassed, of course, but I didn't think at the time like it was that big of a deal because I was just a kid.

Speaker 1: 41:29

But reading that years later and realising that medical professionals were branding me as a binge drinker and that my drinking is a problem, it shocked me it's scary because then, if you look at how quickly really like in terms of a life, if you think of how short a period of time it took for me to go from a kind of slightly problematic drinker to a this man is an alcoholic and he's not pleasant to be around it wasn't that long a period of time and it really it can get you so quickly. Get you so quickly, um so, going from like binge drinker into an alcoholic.

Speaker 3: 42:19

You're treading a really tight, tight line, that's it, and like I mean the the thing. The thing was like I've I've never throughout my whole life I've never been a like a massive drinker in in a way, like I went through that period reflected and then kind of got over it, um, but I I've always set myself kind of rules in in myself that I don't really drink at home and I I never have beers or wine in my fridge, um, and I only drink during the week when I go to like an occasion where I have like one or or two. Um, that aspect, um, but being introduced to people who, where it becomes part of their habit, yeah, um, it becomes part of their lifestyle of coming home from like working and and drinking, and that's alien in a way to me and it's, it's yeah and I it's just not that a lifestyle that I've.

Speaker 3: 43:24

I've kind of like understood, so yeah.

Speaker 1: 43:27

Yeah, it's like it's. It's so easy for it to become a kind of a ritual and then for you to feel like you need that to kind of survive. You know, like what was this whole narrative of like, oh, treat yourself, like, have a glass of wine, treat yourself, or have a beer treat yourself, and it's like actually you could be treating yourself by having like a nice glass of milk before bed, because milk is expensive, so that's a treat. Or chocolate or sugar or anything like these things that people are worried about because they're bad, like eating lots of sugar or going to McDonald's or having a burger. It's like, oh, that's a treat, but it's really naughty, but doesn't really seem to be that with a glass of wine and that's a glass of wine, and that's a whole different demographic.

Speaker 1: 44:14

now, like you know, I mean this is a stereotype, but in middle-class families that will always have a glass of wine with dinner. That's binge drinking or Italian families like mine, but that would be considered binge drinking. If you're drinking a glass of wine every day with dinner, that's Subitual. That's subitual and that is approaching grey area. Drinking no, I've noticed.

Speaker 3: 44:43

Going back to the question earlier, like I've, when I, Since you've started this Instagram page.

Speaker 1: 44:52

Sober Boozer's Club, Sally Sober.

Speaker 3: 44:54

Boozer's Club, plug it. No, I've become more aware of the amount of options that are out there, naturally, yeah, yeah, I thought you were going to say, just more aware about alcoholics.

Speaker 1: 45:06

I was like yeah, we will do that to you.

Speaker 3: 45:09

They're everywhere, but no, when I go to a bar or a pub, my first instinct and it could just be you and all that stuff is to look at the alcohol-free options and see what is available. And especially in Worcester, where I live, there seems to be such a huge range of alcohol free options, and in the last six months as well, it's gone.

Speaker 3: 45:36

Yeah, and like I have one in between my pints or stuff or I just go out and have alcohol free and the options that and obviously I ask for your recommendations, of course, but like the options are so vast that I do find myself taking the photo to send to you and going have you heard of this one? Yeah, yeah, yeah, and seeing what your thoughts are before I buy it. And there was a Cloudwater one in.

Speaker 1: 46:07

Tonic Bar. Don't be a sheep.

Speaker 2: 46:08

Jay, Make up your own choices In a cost of living crisis.

Speaker 1: 46:11

See, we Make up your own choices.

Speaker 3: 46:13

I'm in a constant living crisis. See, we both have the same tongue.

Speaker 2: 46:16

Look at both of you now leaning on every word I say.

Speaker 1: 46:20

Looking to me for your drink choices.

Speaker 3: 46:22

That's real power, isn't it? That's the only reason.

Speaker 1: 46:25

I got sober and the thing is, they're good now. The beers are good Beforehand, I mean.

Speaker 2: 46:35

I don't know.

Speaker 1: 46:36

But I can remember drinking Freedom in oh fuck, where was it? Irish Bar in Digbuff, norton's, norton's. Yes, I can remember having a Freedom and thinking this is fucking awful. It's fucking awful. I'm thinking this is fucking awful, it's fucking awful.

Speaker 3: 46:53

I'm drinking one right now. Yeah, and genuinely, as someone who still never drinks beer, it tastes like beer. It's in my fridge 24-7,.

Speaker 1: 47:04

Free Dam. Free Dam is always in my fridge. Recently, northern Monk's Holy Faith is in my fridge because I'm really enjoying that. At the moment, lucky Saint is often in my fridge and then in my second fridge, which is my kind of review fridge, I've got an array of whatever's coming out. Um, but Freedom is a staple. It's very, very good and I know your favourite is the Lucky Saint.

Speaker 2: 47:30

The orange one.

Speaker 3: 47:31

The orange one. Yeah, the, yeah, the IPA.

Speaker 2: 47:33

I almost bought that one earlier. Oh, you should have, it's a good.

Speaker 1: 47:37

I think it's okay.

Speaker 2: 47:39

This is why you don't follow Ben's recommendations.

Speaker 1: 47:44

But genuinely, you know, I wonder if you would be as switched on to the alcohol-free market if you weren't friends with a filthy little boozer.

Speaker 3: 47:57

Boozer.

Speaker 1: 47:59

Ex-boozer.

Speaker 3: 47:59

Ex-boozer yeah, no, don't tell them. I probably wouldn't, to be honest with you, because now it's kind of like a natural thing of me looking out for the brands that I notice that you've told me about, or the ones where I've had to swig out your glass Because it's an art. I don't want to be drinking all the time.

Speaker 1: 48:28

I strongly believe in moderation where you can yeah, if you're not an alcoholic, you're not an alcoholic like you know it out. Enjoy your alcohol, but don't enjoy it too much exactly like that's that's the thing, isn't it? Not everyone that drinks booze is an alcoholic.

Speaker 3: 48:46

Yeah, like I. I drive a lot naturally now because I'm in a different city and I want to come see my friends and stuff. Having the options there that I know what I like and know what I taste, it means I don't have to go to the bar and have a lemonade. I love a lemonade.

Speaker 1: 49:05

Yeah, but it's not a bar drink, is it?

Speaker 3: 49:07

I want options to try something new or have that flavour that I won't be able to have otherwise.

Speaker 2: 49:14

I think earlier I said that you can get addicted. Well, I felt like I was addicted to the flavour of beer and just the way it hits your mouth and your throat and it's relaxing. Yeah, it's great. Steer away, Greg. No jay jay. What I'm saying is that I've, now that I've tried a few, uh, non-alcoholic beers thanks to ben, because you occasionally bring me one back and you say here, try this. Um, I have realized that flavor and the way it hits your mouth and the relaxation still exists within non-alcoholic beers and it's great.

Speaker 1: 50:01

Well, I mean, right now I'm drinking a CBD beer and you know, I don't know how that's going to make me feel, but it's like there are functional drinks now without the alcohol in them, with like mushrooms and things in them that are just relaxing, and you get a sugar hit off the some of the beers, but it's often what you're craving is actually a sugar hit. Um, and the flavor of beer I love, and I can still love that now with alcohol free, and it's just great. It's a great industry to be a spectator of and perhaps a little part of, which is really lovely. Tell me one for each of you. Funniest drunk memory of me, and this can be taken two ways. It can either be look at that fucking state. And this can be taken two ways. It can either be look at that fucking state, or it can be from the good days when actually, I wasn't an alcoholic, I was just a jolly drinker. Yeah well, this speaks volumes, doesn't it? It was all terrible.

Speaker 2: 51:09

I don't know how to tell you no, putting you to bed, people are just so mad I don't know how to tell you, no, Putting you to bed was. You know that's tragic but hilarious. It can't help me. I had to take your trousers off.

Speaker 1: 51:26

I can remember seeing the video of it and I was in a dressing gown trying to go up to bed. You videoed it Me trying to go upstairs upstairs, but I was crawling like a slug, yeah, but the thing is that night was fantastic. It was a great night it was great um and I just wedding? Yeah, it was. It was fabulous and I felt like I'd really let myself down by being drunk at that point, but actually that was a fabulous night.

Speaker 2: 52:00

That was one of those. If you weren't an alcoholic and it was a one-off like oh, ben's had a lot to drink, then you know it is very funny. Yeah, and it wasn't like you were always getting to the point where you had to be carried upstairs, no, but that was a particularly heavy evening, wasn't?

Speaker 1: 52:17

it yeah.

Speaker 2: 52:19

But that's probably my funniest, jay.

Speaker 3: 52:24

My thoughts naturally go towards the various karaoke, uh, slash, open mic nights where, um there was one where we were in a, um, a very quiet pub that had had a karaoke machine, um, and I think you decided to do Queen's Bohemian Rhapsody, I think In a sequined top, in a sequined top, and it was like an old man's.

Speaker 1: 52:58

It was a local pub for local people.

Speaker 3: 53:00

Yes, they're just trying to enjoy a quiet pint while you're doing the performance of a lifetime. It was fantastic Just to watch. But yeah, Free of charge, I might add. Yeah, but I also my head does go to the times where I was in a band with you and standing backstage where we were just having a good time.

Speaker 1: 53:33

Drinking like normal people drink, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 3: 53:38

And obviously, again, it's like it's not something that can't be achieved without alcohol. No, so there's not really a good thing that I can remember that you couldn't have done without alcohol. In a way, like you, you, you, all the experience of all the great experiences I've had with you, because it's you and the alcohol, just when it got to excess, um, made you, not you, and that was it.

Speaker 1: 54:14

Yeah, and I think, well, this is kind of getting towards the end of the journey now. But one thing that is important to touch on is, you know, accountability for it, and I think what was really important was that you know there were some of my friends, as we touched upon earlier, that did, you know, drift after my last drunken episode, because there'd been so many of them that that was just final nail in the coffin. And I think there's kind of a there's a level of forgiveness, but not without, but there's forgiveness forgiveness but with accountability. And I think that's really important and that's something that I really respect for both of you for is that you held me accountable for for it, but in holding me accountable, you didn't just go right, you're on your own bye. It was kind of a. You know what you've done and you're putting yourself through enough torture now yeah, um.

Speaker 1: 55:16

So how do we address this moving forward? Because I didn't once feel like I could just get away with it with either of you after my last kind of drunken episode. It was kind of it was almost an unspoken that this was the last straw now and if any more drinking was to occur it would be okay. Now you're on your own. But I think accountability is very important and holding those accountable as well.

Speaker 3: 55:43

I remember saying to you how disappointed and pissed off I was and how it's really difficult for me to I do it, but I explained, like what you did and what, how you hurt me and and and broke, broke trust in it in a in a way.

Speaker 1: 56:07

Yeah, because I was still piecing the night together. Yeah, that's the scary part is I've got most of that night now.

Speaker 2: 56:14

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 56:14

And I know exactly how the night unfolded, because everyone that was there has told me yeah.

Speaker 3: 56:21

It's. The forgiveness is one thing. Like I said earlier, I remember sitting there and thinking to myself like I can't just cast him off. I need to help him. He's in pain, I need to help him, but he needs to know what he did wrong and realize that his life has to change in certain ways for his own good. Like to help him Well, help you. I'm talking to you.

Speaker 3: 57:07

So, yeah, I think it would have made me feel awful if I stepped away, didn't talk to you ever again and you didn't get the support that you needed. You carried on doing what you were doing and in 20 years' time, passing you on the street and seeing you worse, that would have killed me. Passing you on the street and seeing you worse, that would have killed me. I wanted to make sure that you couldn't yeah, you wouldn't fall again like that. Um and watching it, watching this process that you've you've been on like, and I'm so, like I said, I'm just unbelievably proud of the work that you've put in. Um, it's I, it's it's all I can, all I can do now when people ask what you're doing, I can be so, uh, proud and honest with them I was gonna say you could be honest with yourself as well and not just feel like you're kind of sticking up for a mate.

Speaker 1: 58:08

You can actually feel like you believe it.

Speaker 3: 58:12

I don't take anything that people say badly against you or anything. I will tell them straight he's done a lot to change his life, and that's it.

Speaker 2: 58:29

Be happy for him. I think as well. There's. Obviously the drinking was its thing, but you had things that you had to work through outside of the drinking, which was impossible to do while you were drinking again because of the. The fragility that comes with drinking didn't allow that to happen, but since you stopped drinking, it feels like you've addressed those things properly, um, and they're a much better person for it.

Speaker 1: 58:58

Well, thank you both very much for coming and talking to me. Um, obviously, these are conversations that we've had kind of on and off for the last two years, but I think it was just important to go into that a little bit and because, also, as I said early on, I think that the kind of the people that you take along with you on this journey are, like, really important and also kind of go through a level of trauma with you. It's a good question actually Do you feel like there was a level of trauma that sticks with you from those days, because I wake up sometimes and I'm like from like drink dreams and things like that. Um, do you think there's a level of that with you, or has that gone now?

Speaker 3: 59:46

it's, um, it's. I think think the the after effects will always kind of be with me, Like it will always be Um. I think I think the the thing more is that I know the science a bit better and I know if somebody else came along and they were heading down that route, I would have the tools in me to help them quicker and just be a friend and be empathetic to them and help in any way that I personally can. I think it's not trauma, I think it's experience and I think it's experience and I think it's growth and, yeah, supportive.

Speaker 2: 1:00:38

I do have trauma from it and also just from the house environment. Yeah, living with you, as much closer to it. Yeah, and it definitely gave me a few more grey hairs Well, not many. I'm ginger and we don't go grey that easily. Good luck finding a grey hair, yeah, but metaphorical grey hairs, for sure, and yeah, you haven't given me any since.

Speaker 1: 1:01:14

Yet Would you change anything? Looking at where I am now and what I had to go through to get here, and knowing everything that has kind of happened within my life, would you change anything? Or do you think that where I am now was worth the trials?

Speaker 2: 1:01:36

That's an excellent question. Yeah, if someone was going through exactly the same things that you were and the same situations that arose, I definitely think it would be better if you would manage to flick that switch in your head before it got to the stage it did a million percent. So, yeah, I would change that, and I don't know how it could be changed because it yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:02:05

I have this kind of these thoughts all the time, like if I, if I'd have left the relationship I was in for me it would have been I if I'd have left the relationship I was in for. For me it would have been better if I'd have stopped drinking at the same time. For me it would have been better, for her it would have been a lot better. Um, but then I think, would I? Would I have had the kind of the willpower to do that and to to stick at it?

Speaker 1: 1:02:29

and to then get to where I am now. Where I'm, you know, I'm the happiest I've ever been um, and I kind of feel like I've got myself back yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:02:39

I know I mean like when you, when you think about like life is just this long journey that like drags you down and like it destroys you in many ways and hurts you and you have to grow and all of the things in your life are lessons and experience and makes you wiser and better adjusted. If you didn't wait that long and you did it years ago, yeah, maybe you'd be in a in a similar position that you are now. But be be thankful. I guess that the the journey that your life has taken you has led you to a beautiful home, a good job, a beautiful girlfriend like this. Back off jay I bought her flowers earlier. Wouldn't that be a thing? I get invited on your podcast and steal your girlfriend at the same?

Speaker 1: 1:03:40

time Almost enough to drive a man to drink.

Speaker 2: 1:03:43

Daddy Eric Clapton.

Speaker 3: 1:03:46

But it's true, you can't I don't think you can look at it that way. You look at it that way. You look at it that, yeah, history has happened, but it's led you to where you are now, so it doesn't matter whether it was worth it or not. Yeah, whether that was worth it. You have gotten yourself into this position now of having everything going for you.

Speaker 1: 1:04:10

That's the thing. You can't change the past. You can only be accountable for it and try to work on it and be really honest with yourself about your wrongdoings, but also be gentle with yourself about the whole situation. So yes, thank you both very much for agreeing to have this little chat.

Speaker 1: 1:04:29

It was very interesting to hear your thoughts on it. Shall we go and play some Fortnite now? Let's do it. Yes, Thank you for listening to this week's episode of the Sober Boozers Club podcast. My name is Ben. You can find me at Sober Boozers Club. You can't find Jay or Greg anywhere, because I'm not going to give you their personal details, but today I was joined by those two bastards and they are two of my bestest friends in the world. The following episodes will be with experts from the beer industry, from the beverage industry in general and from the sober community, so I really hope you enjoy the forthcoming episodes. Thank you for listening to this one. I'll catch you soon.