Brewing Beyond Borders: Trent's Journey Through Australia's Alcohol-Free Beer Landscape with MASHGANG

What does it take to brew a hit alcohol-free beer in Australia? Trent from Mash Gang Australia joins us to share the journey behind their latest creation, Beach Goon, and its entry in the Australian Independent Brewing Awards. We have a laugh over Australian stereotypes, especially the infamous Foster's beer, and chat about the charm of shandies and Radlers. Trent opens up about his path into alcohol-free brewing, ignited during the lockdowns of 2020, and his adventures with these unique beverages worldwide.

Brewing beer in Australia comes with its own set of challenges, from vast distances to unpredictable weather. In this episode, he recounts his early days as a novice brewer, the bittersweet success of his first brew, and the joy of working with One Drop Brewery. We highlight the logistical and financial hurdles of brewing in Australia, including high shipping costs and the struggle and heartbreak of disposing unsold stock. Trent and I also compare the sweltering Australian summers to the UK's unpredictable climate, emphasizing how different regions adapt to extreme temperatures. This is our first time chatting in person but you wouldn't know it, as Trent's knowledge of beer effortlessly cascades through the conversation, sandwiched by light hearted tales of Pirates holding up ships containing Beer, making for hilarious and interesting conversation.

The world of beer influencers is evolving, and non-alcoholic beers are gaining traction thanks to passionate advocates like John Bullock, aka Rad Dad John. We spotlight the growing community around non-alcoholic beers, the efforts of the AF Beer Squad, and the charm of breweries using native ingredients. As we wrap up, we share our personal histories with alcohol, the journey towards moderation (I WISH I COULD), and hint at exciting future plans for his brand's core range. Whether you're a brewing enthusiast or just curious about the world of alcohol-free beers, this episode offers a refreshing perspective.

For more information on Mash Gang Australia head to https://www.mashgang.com.au/ or to catch up with Trent find him over on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/mash__gang__au

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome to the Sober Boozer Club podcast, a place where we can talk openly and honestly about addiction, sobriety and, strangely enough, beer. I'm Ben, I'm an alcoholic and for the last two years I've been sampling some of the finest alcohol-free beers the world has to offer. Each week, I'll be joined by a different guest to discuss their own lived experiences on all things related to the world of low and no alcohol beverages. So pour yourself a tipple, relax and let me welcome you to the Sober Boozers Club.

Speaker 1: 0:32

In today's episode, I finally complete the MASHGANG trilogy by talking to Trent from MASHGANG Australia, and at the start of this interview we're actually discussing let's say we're discussing Beach Goon, which is their latest beer. He's actually mocking me for not having a can of my own. So that's lovely, isn't it? We're going to talk about the history behind MASHGANG Australia, how Trent got involved in brewing for MASHGANG and about the whole alcohol-free scene in Australia as a whole. It's a really nice episode. It's the first time we've actually ever met. So as a whole, it's a really nice episode. It's the first time we've actually ever met, so I really hope you enjoy.

Speaker 2: 1:08

Oh, look at that. Oh, it's glorious. Yeah, this came out way better than I expected.

Speaker 1: 1:17

Yeah, I've heard George say. What George said to me on a message like this is the best beer I've ever had. So that's something for you.

Speaker 2: 1:20

It's yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely stoked with the response. So we're getting. I haven't had a lot of people review on Untappd, I think 11 or 12, but it's on like 4.16. Yeah, yeah, I saw that, but I've entered it into the Australian Independent Brewing Awards which is in July. So, yeah, hopefully we get a medal or something. That'd be pretty cool, a bit of recognition. But yeah, I'm pretty proud of this one.

Speaker 1: 1:42

Yeah, it's good. It's good For context. We're talking about Beach Goon and I'm joined, as you may have gathered, by Trent from Mash Gang Australia.

Speaker 2: 1:53

I'm not sure what could have given that away. Who was it? Yeah, sorry I'm late. I'm thinking of G'day mate. How the bloody hell are you?

Speaker 1: 1:58

There we go. I thought you'd have. What other stereotypes can we apply here? I'm not going to insult you with fosters because that's ridiculous.

Speaker 2: 2:06

Yeah, oh.

Speaker 1: 2:06

God, that's a piece of it. Can you actually get it anywhere, or is it just?

Speaker 2: 2:10

nonsense. You can Now. You couldn't in Australia for a very long time, but now I saw it like Craft Carto, who's a big online liquor retail, advertising. You can buy some tinnies of fosters, but nobody drinks it here.

Speaker 2: 2:24

It's funny yeah I think they did in the 70s and then it started getting made over there. I mean, I lived in the uk from 2013 to 2019, so I saw it everywhere and, of course, anywhere I worked, everyone gave me shit about drinking fosters. But uh, yeah, we don't drink it here, it's a no, I didn't. I didn't think you did fosters actually in in this.

Speaker 1: 2:41

I'm not. I'm not going to talk about Foster's anymore after this, but they released a Shandy over here, or is it a Shandy? Yeah, it is a Shandy, but it's called like proper Shandy and I was like, oh, that's going to be sweet, I bet that'll be really good. And it's like 3% and I mean I can't do that. So I was like for God's sake that would have been great, like just a really shit like shandy beer. I'd have loved that and it's like they didn't even do that right Like 3%.

Speaker 2: 3:10

What's the one? Oh, it's the one you can get in Malta. It's like a lemon Rattler beer. It's like their main macro. Is it Pisk or something?

Speaker 1: 3:21

I don't know.

Speaker 2: 3:21

Pisk Rattler. I remember having one on a ferry in Malta a few years ago. I was going is it Gozo? I love Radler and my friend, my buddy oh yeah, so do I and my buddy of mine he's my small tease and he'd been over there and was drinking these Pishk things, so it was just a bit of an in-joke getting on the Pishk.

Speaker 1: 3:39

I once thought I had overdosed on a combination of Rattlers and prescription medication when I was in Santorini. That was wild Sounds interesting so. I've got a lot of respect for Rattlers now. They're not to be taken lightly.

Speaker 2: 3:58

No definitely not. The name's deceiving, isn't it?

Speaker 1: 4:01

We talked about Beach Goon very briefly to begin with, whilst you were mocking me for not being able to get it over here.

Speaker 1: 4:08

I'm going to send you something, don't worry, you're a legend, it's going to make my day Like these. These mash gang podcasts have done me very good, because it was the the oak cream pale. George sent me his last can because I was like man, I really want to drink that beer. I don't know what it was about it, I just I think it was just the name and the can and like seeing jordan film it in the fucking woods in wales or wherever it was. Um, yeah, and I was like I really need this beer. And that's how I first kind of discovered you guys or kind of started looking into what you guys were doing and realized it was a different entity. Um, how did it kind of come about it?

Speaker 2: 4:49

come about. So back in 20 it must have been 29, 2020 so during lockdowns and stuff, you know as the same old story, we were drinking too much, so I was looking for alternatives um, so I won't spend too much time on that but I started running uh, it was called afb squad, um, so it's almost like what you're doing now with the beer club and I had meetings with so I won't spend too much time on that, but I started running. It was called AF Beer Squad, so it's almost like what you're doing now with the beer club. And I had meetings with Robin and Tom back in the day and I was talking about getting some hints and ideas of how to run a successful subscription box that's non-alcoholic, with a smaller audience, and there wasn't a lot of beers available at that point in Australia. There was probably half a dozen, plus some big macro ones that would taste terrible. So I started importing through, had the help of Tom and Robin as well, and then I sort of stumbled onto Mash Gang through Instagram and, of course, like everyone else, the branding looks cool, the guys are super chill and it just resonated with me. Me and George started chatting on DMs, then it went to voice messages. Then we were calling each other. We just became buds.

Speaker 2: 5:48

And then I yeah, my wife became pregnant and I was having a child and we had a dog and everything was too busy still. So I wanted to wind down the beer squad. I mean it wasn't going gangbusters, it wasn't making me any money. I probably did it for nearly two years. I think we did a couple of Christmas special boxes where I spoke to breweries around the world and I paid for the shipping and they just gave me the beer for free. But it was never more than two cases. I think the most we got up to was 35 subscribers.

Speaker 2: 6:16

I think we got that Lamb of God beer from the States. I had a buddy in the States. That was the best thing I'd ever done. I had a buddy from the States and I had to ship it to his house from Brewdog US and then he forwarded it onto me to my house, and because one of the guys that's the scrub is the first subscriber Cole, he was a oh sorry, what's the band? It's left my mind. He's into heavy metal. So I got it especially for him and it actually cost me money to get it over, and just especially for him. I just wanted to blow his mind. I was like, yeah, this beer I got for you, um, so anyway, yeah, back to the story.

Speaker 2: 6:46

So yeah, me and jordan were talking and I was trying to wind that down and yeah, he said why don't we just start brewing mash gang over there? So yeah, it sort of stemmed from that. Just a silly idea on a, on a conversation, um, and during the time I was doing afb scott, I was talking to a brewery called Big Shed in Adelaide and found out they did contract brewing and they'd already made their own non-alcoholic. It was very hard and still is very hard in Australia to contract brew for non-alcoholics. Okay, it's sort of a higher risk of products, obviously with no ethanol in it to disinfect any bugs or yeast that can grow in it or moulds. So yeah, a lot of breweries don't really want to touch it. So it's a bit of a stigma here and those that do do it and do it well and those that don't are missing out, I feel. But there are a few more. It's getting more popular over here. It's taking longer than I thought Usually, trends like that where Australia is probably three or four years behind, but I feel that the NIAC space is still growing.

Speaker 2: 7:51

You know current economic climate is making it tougher, with the cost of living going up and people not to be able to afford as many. You know wanky beers as they used to. Wanky beers I like beach good. I mean you can get all that. They're cheaper two e's zeros, I think, which are you know a few bucks for a six pack and they're just crap. I see people on forums posting like I've got this and then succinct porn. It's like save your six bucks and spend the next.

Speaker 1: 8:16

You know 20 yeah, that's the thing. Like it really bothers me when people try the really low-brow non-alcoholic beers and then they base their entire perception of alcohol-free beer on that. It's like, oh, I had this and it was bad, so I don't like it at all. It's like you've ruined it for yourself by doing that first man.

Speaker 2: 8:39

Yeah, I feel that. I feel that some of the quality on some of the other brands that were good in Australia have dropped. So when people are getting introduced, that some of the quality on some of the other brands that were good in Australia have dropped. So when people are getting introduced to some of these more popular ones, they're not as good as they were a few years ago. Okay, so maybe they're value engineered or they've done something, or maybe it's just my palate changing. I don't know. Yeah, but I feel when people get introduced to it, it's got to be banging.

Speaker 1: 9:06

Otherwise they're just going to be like, no, it's wasted six bucks. Yeah, yeah, I've said if I would have got sober when, like three, four years ago well, three, four years prior to when I actually did um, I'd have been in so much trouble because the, the beers that were available just weren't as good, and without, yeah, some beers I'd have been. Really it would have been a real uphill climb for me. So it's like, thank god, thank God that there's peace and stuff around now?

Speaker 2: 9:27

Yeah, definitely, definitely. So. Yeah, back to the story. We were, yeah, so we did a first contract brew a beer called yeah, nah, yeah, that we released, I think it was almost three years ago now. It's been a long journey. It's been so stop-start, you know, and I've funded all of it personally, so it's a start-up for myself, with the support of the guys in the UK, mash gang and you know, sharing recipes and going over things. I mean the first beer.

Speaker 2: 9:54

I didn't know how to brew beer, I just liked beer. So I had the brewery ask me questions and I'm like, oh shit, I don't know. So, you know, I seen George Help me, help me, help me, and this was years ago, so he was still learning too. So you know, he was, I think, flying by the seat of his pants, but we got away with it and we made a beer and it was really really good. It came out well, it was nice, and we called it a West Coast Hazy, which is a bit of an oxymoron. Um, I mean, I'll put it up to beers I'm making today. I probably think it's trash because it's it was too, too many. Uh, it was quite, it was very bitter and it's a lip puckering. Um, people really enjoyed it, though. Um still got some good reviews on it.

Speaker 2: 10:36

Um, and I think from there we did a collab with big shed, the brewery. We made a Berliner mango what was it? It was a mango and passion fruit called Hellvaser. So I had the Hellvaser logo on it and we had our artist, the guy we were using in, I think he's in Indonesia. He did all the logo design, but we had a lot less input on how the beer was made. So it was weak and it was okay, but it wasn't a mash gang beer.

Speaker 2: 11:12

Yeah, yeah, yeah, do you know what I mean? It didn't have our input, didn't have our touch on it. So, yeah, if anything, that beer probably nearly broke me. I made too much of it and couldn't sell it all. I still had cases and cases in storage and I ended up. We have a deposit scheme here in Australia, so by the end of it it was past best before, so I just had to dispose of them and get my 10 cents for every can and stick that back in the bank. It wasn't, yeah, a lot of hard lessons that I learned. Yeah, but in that, yeah, and expensive, you know, it's not tens of thousands of dollars, but a few thousand dollars. So you know, but we're making that back now.

Speaker 1: 11:52

So it's all good Live and learn with business and brewing, and you know, yeah, especially when it's such a new thing because it's one thing going into like making beer and brewing for the first time or, like you know, starting that sort of venture, but then when you add in the and let's make it alcohol free and let's do it in australia, which is, from what you've said, you know, four years behind, maybe uk markets that's a real fucking uphill, uphill, um slope to climb oh yeah, it was tough, and I think the minimum brew length was 2,000 litres.

Speaker 2: 12:28

So you're talking about two pallets of beer with no one knowing the brand. Where I know in the UK I think they started. Was it U-Brew, wasn't it in Bermondsey where they first made the first lot, like 100 litres? So you know a few, maybe 50 or 60 cans, and it just sold out, sold out, sold out. You know a few, maybe 50 or 60 cans, and it just sold out. So I was like I wish I had that luxury. I've got to make several thousand cans and it's costing about $14,000.

Speaker 1: 12:56

Yeah and like to post it like elsewhere is like oh yeah, that will be a fortune.

Speaker 2: 12:59

Oh, that's the problem in Australia too. Yeah, it's such a big country and our logistics, I mean, suck and it's very expensive to to get beer around the country.

Speaker 1: 13:07

So you don't realize how big Australia is until it. Well, for for me it's. I don't think about the size of Australia until it comes up on, like some, did you know that Australia is x big and then you go, nah. Then you look at a map and you go, oh shit.

Speaker 2: 13:28

That's fucking huge, it is ridiculous. So for context, I'm flying up to Port Douglas. So I live in Brisbane, north Brisbane at the moment and I'm flying up to Port Douglas, which is in the same state as me, as Queensland, and it's just over a two-hour flight, fuck. So I was looking at driving. I was like maybe I'll drive and save some money. And then I threw into Google Maps and it said 28 hours drive. I was like fuck, I'm flying.

Speaker 2: 13:52

To the same state. That's it. Yeah, yeah, same state. It's massive. So we are southeast of Queensland, so near the border to New South Wales. Probably two hours drive to the border, but to get up to the top of the state, yeah, it's a you can probably spend 30 hours driving and still be on land that's mad.

Speaker 1: 14:09

See, I knew it was big from google, but I didn't know it was that big.

Speaker 2: 14:13

That's fucking wild it is yeah, yeah and then. So imagine, you know what the couriers want to want to charge to sort of cut the beer around the country. It's. You know, we, we charge a ten dollar flat rate on the website. Um, it's hit and miss major metros, it's. It costs about ten dollars. So I think I'll lose about 50 cents on those. But anywhere obscure, you know, it's sort of like 25 dollars. You know, yeah, damn it, it's my 15 bucks, it's all my profit. But you know, cans in hands, how are delivery services over there?

Speaker 1: 14:44

because there's a big thing over here with delivery drivers just being like very loose with boxes.

Speaker 2: 14:51

Yeah, I've been fortunate this time around. I haven't had any damaged ones. I did when I was running in the beer subscription. But I feel it's down to the area and the people, the couriers in the area, so sometimes the guiders wouldn't turn up Like they'll sit out for us. I was running it at my garage when I was very small and I'd sit in the reception area for like a week and I'd have to ring them up and then I'd end up driving to the depot because they're like sat there for you know, a week and a half. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'd get there and have a go at the manager. I don't know. I think they move people around, so they sort of service one area very well, so everyone's happy with them, and then he racks off somewhere else. So then there's no one servicing the area. Right, everyone gets the shits. But there's maybe three or four major providers. But up here yeah, where I'm at now, it's been fortunate the guy turns up every day.

Speaker 2: 15:46

Um, I've had bees shipped from fresh from the brewery up to my place and I've had it the next day and it's sydney to brisbane is a is an hour and a half flight, so it's it's quite a distance, um, so yeah, they pretty quick. I think it's just lucky. Depends on the route, depends on the driver. Yeah, um, but no, no damage so far. But I have had, yeah, some damage in the past. They just I don't put fragile stickers on. I think if you put that on they go. Challenge accepted.

Speaker 1: 16:09

I can see that man. It's like working in fast food places, like having known people that have worked in them when I was 16, 17. So the shit that people do to that food when you know it, it's like fucking hell. I had a conversation with a mate the other day and we ordered a mcdonald's and we're eating it and he just turned to me and said we've just let a 15 year old make our dinner and it's just like oh shit, yeah, that's gross. Like yeah, yeah, you're asking for trouble, aren't you? I see that like fragile sticker. Someone goes, is it?

Speaker 2: 16:44

freaking shake it. Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, they're notorious here as well as I think they. If it's for the australia post or the main postal service, if it's a contract courier, they get paid extra. If they come to my place and just drive by and then drop it off at the depot, it's like two trips for them. So they'll put a, they'll throw the card at my letterbox, basically say you weren't home, but I am bloody home, and then they get paid twice. I did learn about that. So a lot of times things don't get delivered. You get the card but you're like I've stayed at home from work for this because I've watched probably a beer or something silly I've ordered I want this bloody beer tonight and you bastard, you didn't even look. I've heard of people seeing them creeping up to the letterbox and slipping the thing in their mouth.

Speaker 1: 17:36

I have chased a driver down the street before because there's two different delivery services that I tend to get and one of them always takes it to this shop. That I hate. I hate going to, um, yeah, like it's just really dirty and it takes them about 20 minutes to find my name and to then find the case. And you've got people going in trying to like sell their sim card sim cards um, to then buy them back a week later, and things like that. And it's just I don't like it in there, um, and this same fucker keeps doing that to me and being like just oh yeah, you've, you've not been in, and then driving it back and it's like just leave it on the door, man, that's a necessary evil though, isn't it for getting beer or anything for that man, anything you order online, amazon, I mean amazon's not very popular.

Speaker 2: 18:25

It's weird australians haven't taken amazon. Australia's like fuck you amazon. We use a thing called timu, which comes out of china, which is awesome. I was still speaking to a guy I was at the brewery the other day and, yeah, they were ordering pizza ovens off timu, which is the australian equivalent of amazon.

Speaker 1: 18:38

It's just become like a thing over here, but it's like, yeah, really really cheap, like just garbage stuff, um, yeah, yeah, so is there a good side of team here? It's for like treasure to be found.

Speaker 2: 18:52

My wife buys things off there. I think she got a team delivery today. She's always getting teamy stuff and it arrives the next day.

Speaker 2: 18:58

It's like what? What amazon was in the uk. I remember when I was living there here's a funny story I bought a drone of amazon. I was living, I used to live on the th. Here's a funny story I bought a drone of Amazon.

Speaker 2: 19:06

I used to live on the Thames in Rotherhithe and I bought this drone and it was just coming on dusk. So I raced downstairs and I plugged it in, I took it up and flew it and then, of course, I didn't charge a battery. So I get this low battery warning and I'm in a no-fly zone anyway because of City Airport. But I'm like it's coming back to me and I'm like trying to get it back and the thing's just dropping and dropping and dropping and then it hits the fence, right on the fence line to the river and just goes tink into the drink. And I'm like, oh, and it was like 200 quid this thing. And then so I raced back inside. I was like, oh, no, what am I going to do? She knows I've spent 200 pounds on this drone and it's in the temps. I'll just order another one and tell her. The delivery guy didn't turn up, so I just ordered. She knows your story now. So I I ordered another one and it came the next day. And she's saying from work. She's like, oh, your drone's.

Speaker 2: 19:54

He's like, oh, cool great, oh sweet charge the battery up and take it up the park on the weekend. Oh, man but it's just the delivery service. I knew it would come the next day and it was like 6 pm at night, but it was just the service. Then with I don't know what it's like over there now. This was five, six years ago. It was amazing. But yeah, australia, we definitely don't get that level of service. It's surprising. I think I did order a book and it came the next day and I was like huh what?

Speaker 1: 20:23

why is that here? I was expecting a week. It's kind of someplace. It's like same day now, like if I order something, if I ordered something now, I could probably get it for eight and it's like sweet. But then I do have a massive fucking amazon warehouse like three minutes away from my house. Okay, cool, it's quite useful yeah, it's useful.

Speaker 1: 20:41

If they've got the shit that you want, it's good for like weed killer and things like that, which is great. I'm pissed off with weeds at the moment, like I did my back in spraying yeah, not even pulling weeds out of the garden, just bending to spray them and yeah, my back is in agony and it's like what the fuck has has happened. Man, like when did this happen to me? What's going on? I can't do anything physical without being just like in pain for a week. It's fucking scary.

Speaker 2: 21:10

You guys are in summer now, is that? Why are the weeds?

Speaker 1: 21:13

yeah, yeah well, we're supposed to be, but it's been.

Speaker 2: 21:15

The weather's been fucking awful um, so summer's normally on a thursday, there isn't it?

Speaker 1: 21:20

yeah, usually thursday through to. If you're lucky, you get get to Saturday afternoon, you get that little teaser, don't you?

Speaker 2: 21:27

And then the cold just comes. You get like a week of heat.

Speaker 1: 21:32

The worst thing is and I don't know if this is global warming or what, but the worst thing is now you get the heat for a week and it's like this is too much, man, up to like 40 degrees And's like what the fuck, man, I can't do this, I'm not meant terrible over there and well, it's not designed for that there.

Speaker 2: 21:49

I mean, I remember back in that day and if you get to 30 when I was living there and people, my mates back home, we go, it's only 30, that's not how it gets to 45 in. You know where I'm from, where I go? I'll go from western sydney, which is in a valley before the blue mountains, a place called penrith. Um, I call it the arsehole of sydney. So it's the hottest place in summer. I think one day, three or four years ago, it was the hottest place on earth at 47 degrees. But in winter it gets below zero. So it's the arsehole of sydney. So I've been called out in my earlier 20s go out for boys, uh, just in a t-shirt and jeans, because it gets to 20 22 in the day in winter. So you, you know it's warm enough for a t-shirt and you go out and that's my climate. 22, yeah, that's my climate. But you sort of walk out of the bar or the club at 2 am and it's like minus two.

Speaker 2: 22:38

You're like fuck it's cold and then there's no cabs around, so I gotta walk an hour home with a roadie and it's like, oh, it's so cold, or usually you've got flip-flops on and it's absolutely freezing, so it used to catch me out. But yeah, up in Queensland, it's love you, it's getting colder here now. I think it's got down to 12 today, but it still gets to 22, 23,. Pretty consistent. So it's, yeah, a very nice client, but very hot in summer, I must say yeah you're right, though.

Speaker 1: 23:08

We're not like in the uk, we're not built for it. It's not like there's no, no one's got a ac unit, like unless you're doing very well for yourself, so it's just, you're just sat in it and there's like it's just heat. You've kind of got a big fucking layer of cloud and then you've just got heat. It's not like a nice crisp sunshine. Drink a load of Radler's, take a load of diatomite and see if you survive.

Speaker 2: 23:38

Everything's double brick and double clay, so it just holds the fucking heating yeah.

Speaker 1: 23:42

Oh no, we need to be ready for the winters that we had in the 70s, where the snow came up to your window. So it's like, man, I'm lucky. If I mean I say lucky, unlucky because of work, but to see a light frost in the winter now, it's fine, just chill yeah, yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, it's funny here, us aussies, we sit to laugh at you english when it gets hot over there.

Speaker 2: 24:04

Yeah, that's not hot. That we sit to laugh at you English when it gets hot over there, yeah, that's not hot. That's not hot. But unless you experience it, it is hot.

Speaker 1: 24:09

Oh, I also just like to complain, you know yeah.

Speaker 2: 24:12

Oh, yeah, yeah, no, you are British, so you know, that makes sense. Yeah, bloody hell.

Speaker 1: 24:19

So we've had fosters and we've had complaining. I think we're even on the stereotype front.

Speaker 2: 24:25

I agree with that. Yeah, settle on a truce, eh.

Speaker 1: 24:29

So beer-wise. So you've just done Beach Goon. And there was the oat cream before that, and what was the?

Speaker 2: 24:36

other one it was Regulate and Gang Gang was a biscotti pastry style. I've got Regulate in my fridge.

Speaker 1: 24:42

I'm sure I do.

Speaker 2: 24:43

That's the oat cream the Regulate? Oh no, okay so.

Speaker 1: 24:45

I drank that. And then what was the other one with one?

Speaker 2: 24:48

drop. Have you got Gang Gang? Is it like a green can, a dark green can? I think it is a green can, like a guy on a bike. That's really nice. So that was a collab we did with One Drop.

Speaker 2: 24:56

So I'm not sure if people a very well-known for their sales and ice cream, milkshake, these and anything stupid to put in a beer they're the best at it in Australia. They're very. Their beers sell out like hotcakes. Um, awesome guys, awesome team. But yeah, really push limits for what you can get. Probably like a vault city equivalent. I would say Okay, yeah, so that that level and that that nice or four 50 North from you can say them in their conversation and nobody would bat an eyelid in Australia. They're that good. So, yeah, they reached out to us last year, probably this time last year, and said, look, we want to do a collab on a non-out, can you guys come in? And we don't know how to make this. So I flew down on brew day and we had a lot of conversation beforehand with Jordan just tossing ideas around and we settled on that stout called Gang Gang, the biscotti pastry biscotti stout, and that was all.

Speaker 2: 25:55

Nick Nick's the head brewer, amazing brewer, really super chill guy too. I like going down there and shooting the shit with him when I'm in the brewery. But yeah, he came up with the concept of it. We sort of I think we used the Anxiety Sank base and then Nick just flavoured the shit out of it the way One Drop does. So it was like a mash gang base with a massive, heavily One Drop influence on the flavours, so that beer came out really well. So yeah, if you get into that, I'll be interested to see your thoughts. It was a banger.

Speaker 2: 26:26

And then we stumbled. We did throw a lot of oats. Oh no, we soaked the darker grains overnight just to stop any astringency. That was the idea behind it. And then nick said, do you ever soak the oats overnight, like make an oat milk? And we're like no. And then john's like no, but that sounds like a great idea. So we went, let's do that on the next one. So let's. Oh, so that's where the idea was born.

Speaker 2: 26:49

Yeah, so we, nick, I normally just fly down in the morning, uh, like get up and get the red iron and shoot down, um, and spend the day, or sometimes I'll spend the night. So I've got a buddy of mine, my best mate. He lives in bondi so I'll go and stay. He's it's like half an hour drive from the brewery, um, so I usually go hang out with him for dinner afterwards. But yeah, so nick, the night before soaked the oats and then we drained that and moved that to the kettle and it was just like a tub of oat milk in this kettle and I was like it smells a bit sour and I was like this is going to be interesting. And then what else did we throw? We threw everything at that beer. We had the dehydrated oat milk as well. You can buy it in like a big bag and we threw everything at that beer.

Speaker 1: 27:34

We had the dehydrated oat milk as well.

Speaker 2: 27:35

You can buy it in like a big bag, so we tipped someone at it. I like doing the Colab beers because there's no cost spared on them. It's like I can throw all the sexy ingredients at it. But when we're making the mash gang ones I still throw a lot of expensive ingredients at it. But I'm being a bit more conservative because it's my money.

Speaker 1: 27:51

Yeah, that's the thing when, when you're looking at what it's costing, it's a lot easier to go ah, do we need it? Can we get? Can we buy without it, like in the early days it's?

Speaker 2: 28:01

yeah, I can imagine yeah, it's, yeah, because it it's. It's not cheap to contract brew as well. So, and it does. Our beers are a few dollars more per can um, most other ones that are available for retail retail, but they're way better. So I think it's justifiable. But anyway, yeah, so we've got the Hoats and that was that Regulate beer and what else. We used Superdelic on that in the Whirlpool Lotus Salvo, which is like an oil that comes in like a tin. So have you ever done any home brewing with a concentrate? It was like that sort of thing. We had to throw it in hot water, then tip it into the whirlpool as well, and then I I sort of I only turn up for brew day, so all the conditioning and any dry hopping nick's doing on his own later on. So I'm not sure what else he threw in that thing, but it came out amazing.

Speaker 1: 28:45

It was okay, yeah I'm gonna drink that tonight. Um, because it's sat in by, I've said this and it sounds like I'm being, it sounds like I'm not appreciative. But I say like the one issue with doing what I kind of do with the whole I'm going to drink this beer and talk about it, this beer and talk about it, this beer and talk about it is that you get so many beers and when you get down to like five left you go oh fuck, I need to order another, like 40 different beers.

Speaker 1: 29:16

And then you just don't get to drink the ones that you want to drink, because something will come up or like someone will do you a real solid and be like can I send you this beer? And then you think, well, I need to talk about this one now, like early doors. And then podcast episode comes out, beer club stuff and it's like fuck, there's beers I want to drink just for me, man, but I've only got one of them. I can't drink it and not film it.

Speaker 2: 29:38

And it's like Somebody's got to do this job though, mate. Oh no, it's ridiculous and it's tough.

Speaker 1: 29:42

It's a tough task.

Speaker 2: 29:43

It sucks that it's you. You get to drink beer for free.

Speaker 1: 29:46

Yeah, I'll take that one for the team.

Speaker 2: 29:48

Yeah, Unfortunately you've got to do it.

Speaker 1: 29:51

I'm sorry, it is mad. You're for king and country mate. It's what a queen would have wanted, I think, before she went. As he's laying there going, it's my one regret that she didn't live to see just how far I would come in the alcohol-free beer world, because I think she'd have been so proud 100%.

Speaker 2: 30:18

I'm sure she is from up above. She's looking down saying Ben, I don't think she is. I think there's a mother shooting her family. She might be somewhere else.

Speaker 1: 30:31

Yeah, yeah, yeah, but I won't say any more because in five years' time, if our country keeps going how it is, then that will be. I could be executed for that comment. Yeah well, you better be kidding me. Keep going the way we're going. I'm still planning to come. The quink, the quink. I'm nervous now I'm thinking about it.

Speaker 1: 30:50

Back to beer. I do find it mad, for for me, like you were saying earlier about um doing my AF beer club and stuff and I find it wild, for I'm actually I'm not very educated on the matter at all. I've got no fucking idea how you'd make beer, because I'd make it if I did, because I've got a real main character, complex, but I just love drinking it and I got obsessed with talking to breweries and being like you guys make good beer. Talk to me about beer. I want to learn about beer. I want to talk to me about alcohol-free beer. This is fucking fascinating and it's just kind of gone from there. I mean I'm nowhere, nowhere really. I'd love to be, I'd love to not have to work and just talk about beer.

Speaker 1: 31:36

It'll be fucking amazing um, how many subscribers you guys got now on the afb club so, from speaking to robin, it was up to about 180 when, um, when robin was there. I'm pretty sure I don't know what the exact number is now, but I know that there's a. So there's been a weird transition where they've had to come off the original platform and on to like a new one. So they had to resubscribe, um, because, yeah, it was some. I've got no idea what happened, um, but something weird happened. So I think it's kind of. I think it has taken a hit with that, but it's trying to build that back up now um, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's always a challenge.

Speaker 2: 32:22

I know when I've had subscription service before, it would come up every month like, oh shit, I didn't want this, but I'll take it, I'll cancel it, and then you forget, and then it turns up again.

Speaker 1: 32:32

Oh yeah, I do that all the time.

Speaker 2: 32:37

And then, if you've moved, I've donated money to the gym as well. Got to keep them in business.

Speaker 1: 32:45

Yeah, that's exactly what I've been doing for six months. I did six months of going to the gym when I stopped drinking and I was like I feel great of going to the gym when I stopped drinking and I was like I feel great. And now I'm just like, ah shit, now I don't have time. That's what I tell myself no, I don't have time to do this. But then I just sit and play PlayStation for most of my day and then frantically try and catch up with all the other stuff I've got to do later in the evening and then I'm exhausted from my day job. This with having a family and having an actual life, like I complain about having to drink beer for free, although it's, you know, kind of tongue-in-cheek, um, and kind of woe is me, but for you it must be fucking tough man it is.

Speaker 2: 33:25

It is hard and as I did nearly chuck it in with the MASH gang stuff, probably just before the first collab with OneDrop, so, nick, if you're listening, you saved MASH gang Australia. I think I was talking to Jord about it, about just the time and the money, and it wasn't generating income and it's just like I just can't do this anymore. But he talked me around and then, as the universe does it, nick from one drop sent me a random dm on instagram, said, hey, do you want to come to a collab? And I was like, fuck, yeah, I love one drop, let's go do this. I was, I was like one of my favorite hype breweries in australia, as I yeah, it's like bucket list kind of shit.

Speaker 2: 34:04

I was like, yeah, of course I want to come down and make some beer at one drop, brewing like, and then it's just taken off since then. So it sort of kept me in the game. And back on to beer. Yeah, so we've got another one in the tank at the moment. Yes, that was my next question. I was down there a couple of weeks ago. So it's a West Coast Pilsner, nice. It's called Parallels. So we've used Superdelic again in the Whirlpool. What else can I tell? It's got a. We've used an italian pilsner malt, um carahel, which is a caramel malt, and a little tiny touch of manuka smoked malt to give it a little smoky naughty bitch.

Speaker 2: 34:43

It'll make those dank west coast cones pop like a mother. So I'm yeah, I'm excited about this one. I think it's going to be awesome. Um, it's just past. I just got some photos and some info from nick yesterday, so it's all in spec and looking good and we're canning that on the 12th of june. But I'm away so I've got to go to my storage place. Um, I probably get up here like the 14th or 15th, so I think I get back the day at my arrive at my house or not my house, sorry at my storage. Uh, place down the road.

Speaker 1: 35:16

So, yeah, I'm not gonna taste it till like three weeks I'm like oh, man, yeah, that's like I find that you, you, you can like make something. I mean, you don't get to drink it until like way, way later. Like there's some, um, there's some beers that I drink before the the people that made them drink. It's like what, how's this like? It just doesn't make sense to me. It's like don't you just drink it there, and obviously there's a lot more.

Speaker 2: 35:42

That goes on then in all of yeah yeah, um, yeah, and within that same window too. So we've actually got some beer from the uk coming over. Oh nice, from you know, from the lads over there. So I've got a good mix. I'm just gonna spill the beans. I'll tell you what I've got coming. I did have this prepared earlier, just so. I've got low life cult, chug, stoop, hog, cinnabon, pipea out of nowhere. Unlucky charms, I think that's it. Yeah, so like eight Nice Eight different beers. Yeah, so they arrive. It was meant to be here end of April, but the Suez Canal had pirates in it, so they went around Africa, damn pirates.

Speaker 1: 36:27

And now it's in Always ruining shit.

Speaker 2: 36:29

Oh fucking pirates, Tell me about it. And now I'm tracking it and it's in, always ruining shit. Oh fucking pirates, tell me about it. And now I'm tracking it and it's in. I think it left Busan and it's on its way to Shanghai, and then it comes to Brisbane. I think it lands in Brisbane in like five or six days, but I'll be in Port Douglas.

Speaker 1: 36:43

So again, I was just thinking it would be so mashgang if all of the stock got stolen by pirates and it was like you and george had to go and deal with it to get it back and we would, then we would there's a whole story there pirate ipa or something.

Speaker 2: 37:04

stolen beer I mean we've actually, so i'm'm in. So my wife's actually in the UK May next year for my sister-in-law's wedding in Yorkshire, so I've already told George that I'm there in 12 months. Let's fucking get together and make a proper Caleb. We share recipes and stupid ideas on chat together and sort of look over each other's recipes and designs and have a bit of a guess what we think the ABV is going to learn. That's a nerdy thing we do by the grain, but I think that it will tenuate to 20 and you're going to end up with 0.38 um, so we do nerd out on that.

Speaker 2: 37:39

So but yeah, I think we're planning on getting together and doing something properly together instead of just shoot the shit as we do yeah, but when we we get on a meeting or a chat, we normally just talk absolute bollocks for an hour. Then we go oh right, there's business stuff we need to discuss.

Speaker 1: 37:52

Yeah, I bet that is one of the problems with kind of talking to like dealing with them in that kind of sense where you want to just talk about, you know, getting shit done sometimes and then you're like actually I just want to catch up with you.

Speaker 2: 38:06

Like how you do it? Yeah, yeah, it ends up a catch because we've been like man, he's been flat out, and so has James moving in the States and back and forth. And I think I messaged him the other day. Sort of can't remember what I he did something. Oh, I think he's sending something over for this beer. He was yeah, he's sending some stuff over for this beer that I can't source in Australia. So that's getting DHL'd over and I'm like home. And he's like, yeah, I'm home, that's great. Like, just don't listen to me, enjoy your time at home stay there.

Speaker 2: 38:32

You've been away for a while yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I spent some time with the fam and stuff. So yeah they're, yeah, they've been very busy, but you know it's all paying off. It's it's really starting to become a global entity and you know the dream is that it's all one big umbrella and we all work full time and just send the beers from Australia to the U S, to the UK and just do a triangle of love, of beers that we're making. I'm going to pitch.

Speaker 1: 38:58

I'm going to pitch to launch mash gang South of Birmingham and I'm going to, I'm going to front. Yeah, yeah, mgsb, I could sell Birmingham tap water that would be the to the rest of the UK. That would be once the rest of the UK. That would be it Once the rest of our water systems are polluted, like they're getting, and like infected by shit. Yeah, in Devon at the moment, so right south of the country, like you can't drink the tap water at the moment because there's some fucking like something from an animal has got into it and there's a parasite. That's the word I couldn't find. Yeah, it's a parasite.

Speaker 2: 39:35

You know, Brisbane water is the same. It's terrible. And there was a parasite and I think it was water, my neighbour, she got it and then I got it, and then my wife got it and I think the kids got it and we're just like where's this? And my neighbour got really ill with it. She was having body shakes and she couldn't heal and I think she ended up going to like a naturopath and she was on all sorts of stuff. But it actually made her better than what the modern science could do for her. It would take some iodine, I think it was. It was something to do with the pituitary gland and she stopped eating pork because of the DNA in the meats close to humours. It was very holistic but it worked for her and it was like now she's down when he speaks, she's like I feel so much better.

Speaker 2: 40:22

It was like a year that she felt terrible and it was this parasite in the fucking water. And I was down in Sydney the other week and I had a glass of water. I was like, oh, this is nice, you know it's nice. Speaking of water, I'm going to segue into liquid death, because that shit's in australia now and it's fucking expensive, but it's fucking delicious yeah, it's so good, it's so nice.

Speaker 2: 40:45

It's eight dollars a can here. It's. You only get it at 7-eleven in australia and it's eight bucks a can, so it's like four pounds, four pounds, um, and I, yeah, I just say to the guy I'll get fuel and I'll buy. I like the sparkling and the lime, so I'll buy two cans. It's like $16, and the guy's all looking at me, yeah, and they're too expensive. Wanky water too. And there's a brand there's two in Australia that's tried to mimic them. One's called Thirst Trap. Okay, and it tastes crap. I bought it from we have like a big supermarket chain he called woolworths, which is not related to the woolworths in the uk. Right, and I bought it and I was like I was down, I was sitting on bondi beach, oh, this would be lovely. I've got coffee and a lovely big jug of spark. I love sparkling water. I don't know, it's one of my second and favorite things to drink other than beer.

Speaker 1: 41:29

Um, and it was crap and I'm like, oh, there's a liquid death on it yeah, yeah, liquid death is like it's amazing, um, and I I didn't discover it until like quite recently, really um, and I've noticed it's like it's it's a brewer's drink of choice, like whenever I've gone into breweries, it's just cans of liquid death everywhere.

Speaker 2: 41:53

Yeah, okay, okay it seems it's the water. It's the water, it's the water quality. I think, as a brewer, you appreciate the water. It'll make you be like it's.

Speaker 1: 42:02

Yeah, that is one thing that I do notice in terms of a palette and this isn't me just bullshitting like you can taste when water has been I don't know what you buy it from like storage containers or something, or it's been put through a process to make it really clean with london water. I think you have to do something to it because london water is dirty yeah, it's very hard on the water, isn't it?

Speaker 1: 42:26

and you can taste when a beer has been made with london water. Because of that, because it tastes like really, really clean. That's the only way I can describe it. I know what I mean, but I don't know what.

Speaker 2: 42:37

Yeah, yeah, no, I I think I know, I think I know you, man, it's the, that's the. I think it's quite heavy. The london water, I can't. I haven't looked at it for ages. Brisbane water, funnily, it tastes crap but it's quite high in uh. Uh, it's sulfate, I think, which is good for hops, so it's good for hazy beers. Brisbane, where sydney's water is more chlorine heavy, which gives you a better mouthfeel.

Speaker 2: 42:59

I'm just learning water profiling, so don't quote me on this stuff. Um, part of it being a brewer journey, um, but yeah, so one drop, they've got an ro. It's a reverse osmosis that strips all the minerals out of it. So you've got a clean, a clean slate to start with, and then you can profile the beer based on the style. So it's you know.

Speaker 2: 43:17

But in saying that non-outs are a different ball game, again there's, you have to do some different witchcraft to get the mouthfeel, as you would oppose to a standard beer. And when I speak to brewers, um, as I'm getting around the place, yeah, that when we do a make a non-out, they're like it's like everything I've learned to how to make beer and just flip that upside down and that's how you make it. And it's like yeah, you can't. I always say to people you're not making a beer, you're designing a beer Because it's missing certain elements that a beer would have. So you have to come up with ways to get that back in. And that's the hard part.

Speaker 2: 43:54

And I and that's the hard part, I think and I have Jordan's agree with this, but I do speak to him. I sort of say that we didn't learn to brew beer, we learned to brew non-alcoholic beer. So there's a big difference in that. So when you're a brewer and you're trying to explain to them, like a proper professional brewer, how to make an alcoholic beer, they just disagree with everything and you're like no, but I know this works because I've trusted it. I, mac, and I like beer. They just disagree with everything and you're like no, but I know this works because I've trusted it, I've tried it and it's just a, it's different, it's a different process. So it's a. Yeah, it's a funny one that people and that's why I think some of the best non-out brands are made by people that are not traditional brewers yeah, and that's solely my opinion, but I think this is trial and error to try to fill those gaps that are missing.

Speaker 1: 44:38

Yeah, well, when you've had none of the kind of when you've got no pre-existing ideas of how a beer should be done, I suppose you go into it with and just go right. No, I'm going to do it like this.

Speaker 2: 44:51

Yeah, it's probably more being naive that you will just do it this way, but if you already knew that you shouldn't do it that way. Naive that you will just do it this way, but if you already knew that you shouldn't do it that way, you wouldn't attempt it that way.

Speaker 1: 44:59

Well, we just yeah, well, I don't know any different, I'll try that way yeah, I get that, but I think the breweries that kind of that have all the brewers that have been making full out and then release like a really good alcohol-free beer. When you speak to them they'll be like, yeah, I've been like pissing around with this for two years and finally got it right, and it's like okay, it takes a long time, I suppose, to figure that sort of shit out. Yeah yeah, it does.

Speaker 2: 45:26

I agree with that and it's, I mean, a thing that I find in Australia. There's a lot of, there's quite a few non-out brands, not a lot, but probably 15, 20. I don't know, I don't know, I don't think there's anything like the UK or the US, but they just make the one beer. Some of them have got three and four out now it's like come on, just make some more. You've done it once, we're crowdfunding to make a new recipe and it's like I just made another recipe. I didn't need money to do that.

Speaker 1: 45:56

Yeah, that would really piss me off.

Speaker 2: 45:58

I'd get so pissed off if. I was sat watching it.

Speaker 1: 46:03

I can send it.

Speaker 2: 46:04

Just make it. Just make it. If it goes wrong, don't worry about it, try again.

Speaker 1: 46:09

There's ways to rescue this Bloody hell. Do you think that people are kind of catching on to it as a whole the alcohol-free movement in Australia? Do you think that people are kind of catching on to it as a whole, like the alcohol-free movement in Australia? Do you think it's starting to take?

Speaker 2: 46:21

off? I think it is. There's definitely still space for it here. Like I said earlier, the current global economic climate is shit out, so people can't afford it anymore. They're just drinking booze again because they're having a terrible time, because they're so shit.

Speaker 1: 46:41

I feel like this one is getting is getting pissed. That'll catch up with them.

Speaker 2: 46:43

In five years you'll be. I'm still making this great beer. Um, I feel it. It really peaked, and it a couple years ago. There's no real influencers anymore. I can never say that word. I always sound like I'm saying influenza, but you know what I mean. Uh, there's no one really doing that here as such as yourself. So 2020, there was a guy called john. I don't know if you've ever spoke to rad dad john yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 47:11

So john is it?

Speaker 2: 47:12

yeah, john pollock, that's the guy, he's. He's the og non-out craft beer influencer in Australia. There's an influencer.

Speaker 1: 47:19

I've got a funny story about him after this.

Speaker 2: 47:22

We'll share that. And then I started AF Beer Squad and we started chatting and you know he's a super chill guy. I didn't care. I felt like I was encroached on his space. I think he did a. He did like an event. There was someone in 2020 with someone in the UK. They did this big event and he was a speaker on it. My wife's like is that what you want to be? You want to be in La Garnier? I said I don't know, I'm just trying to get more awareness around these beers because I think they're great. At the time, I was drinking the Sobar beverages here with the OG non-ac brewery in Australia, an Indigenous company. They company um, they use, um. I think you've got some over there didn't use. I think I saw them come through on a few clubs, so they've got like they're using native ingredients. This is super it rings a bell.

Speaker 2: 48:03

it does ring a bell, but yeah, and the the bees are really nice as well, so they've been around a long time, um, but I just feel as though I'm really pushing it socially as just a one person doing blogs, doing podcasts. Maybe I should just have started again at the start Match Gang Rates, australian Beers or something I don't know. It's hard to, I can't be. Just add another thing you have to do. Yeah, I can't be that guy when I'm making. I'd be too biased. Yeah, I might be fucking heaps better.

Speaker 1: 48:31

Just blow hard, fuck this shit If I ever release a beer or for I mean, I don't know how that would happen, but if if it ever happens, then it's going to be. I'm going to be insufferable, like, even if it's terrible, I'm gonna be like this is the best beer ever.

Speaker 2: 48:48

I'm in a group chat on instagram with john's on that chat and a few other of the og people from the na world in australia from like four years ago um, I think you know there, chris, he's his instagram's years ago. I think he's going to go there, chris, his Instagram is 39 plus one. I think he's 39 plus five now, but he always gives me shit. He'll go oh, trent's making a new beer because he's active on Instagram again and I'm like, yes, shut up, damn it. It's like a big push for me. And then I had some downtime to be a dad and then I'm making another beer, so I've got to get out there and sell it again. I'm like I need a sales guy or I am trying to pick up some distributors now so I can just make the beer and ship it off to them and they sell it and I take less of a cut but it's far less work. So tell me your John story.

Speaker 1: 49:37

I need the funny Rad dead john it's. So with john it's, I mean, it's nothing really to do with him, it's more to do with me just being an idiot. So when I started doing it um like talking about alcohol, free beer this guy, john bullock, followed me and I was like I know a guy called john bullock who's in the music scene over in the uk in birmingham and he's fucking like he loves the sesh, and I was like, oh fuck, john bullock's gone, sober, sweet. And I was kind of being really like almost overly friendly with this guy, just like, hey, yeah, man, like really candid, um, yeah.

Speaker 1: 50:09

And I only realized recently because he kind of stopped, stopped talking and the kind of you know how it is on instagram, sometimes you kind of like, yeah, other things crop like it's just well, it's a fucking, it's weird, isn't it? Social media is weird, um, yeah. But then recently I realized that it was a completely different guy and I was just like, oh shit, man, like I'm just so glad that I didn't bump into the birmingham. John bullock, be like man, how's your sobriety doing? He's like dude, I'm like three lines deep what you on about, because that would have been weird.

Speaker 2: 50:47

Yeah, Did you explain to our John Aussie, John no no, no the chat just fizzled. You weirded him out too much. Yeah, probably I'll message him after this. That's funny, he wouldn't care. No, no, it's just, it's chat just fizzled, you just weirded him out too much. Yeah, yeah, probably I'll message him after this and let him know. That's funny, he wouldn't care, that he's.

Speaker 1: 51:02

He's a really nice guy, he's lovely, so it's oh dear, it's, it's mad, it's mad but it is like you say, like I think it is important to have people that are making the alcohol-free beer and then a community that evolves around that and it just it kind of it blossoms. Or I've noticed that it's starting to in the uk over the last two years, like since I started. There's so many people now that will want to talk about it, like new accounts will pop up and it's like okay, this is a real growing movement for, you know, sober people and for full-time drinkers. Um, yeah, yeah, because that's the thing in it, like alcohol-free beer it's not just for sober people, like it's for drivers, yeah, etc.

Speaker 2: 51:47

Etc and I think that's one of the things I liked about mash gang. You know, from early on it was never the message of being sober or yeah, or regretting what you did the night before. It was just hey, these beers are just cool and nice and they just happen to have no alcohol in it and they're fun and they're what you want. I do still drink, but I just buy hype beers. Now I homebrew so I've got a little keg system at home and I'll make like 3% and 4% session beers. But if something stupid and big comes out, I'm buying it. Yeah, yeah, sure, man, and my wife's like I thought you started, you bought all this homebrew kit so you didn't have to buy all that stuff. But I'm like, but I still need to buy it.

Speaker 1: 52:31

Yeah, this is cool. Yeah, this is nice.

Speaker 2: 52:33

It's a hobby, yeah, and I've had a very challenging and difficult relationship with alcohol over the hour or one hour. I'm 43 this year, so 20-odd years. I've made a lot of stupid decisions, done a lot of stupid things, like we all have, and I've quit a few times in the months. That my wife's like, but it's your hobby, you're not getting smashed anymore, you just like drinking them because you like the, the fun and the community, so she excuses me and enables me to drink. You've been seriously being well.

Speaker 1: 53:06

We think moderation. You could write a fucking book. Oh no much people would pay for that. No, I haven't you, you should. This is another thing. You should become a moderation coach. You know, you're like sobriety coach. I learned to moderate my drinking and so can you. Five years time, you get loads of people bombing out and you disappear to fucking Peru or something never to be seen again.

Speaker 2: 53:33

Step one work full time. Step two work full time on second job. Step three have child. Step four 8 pm. I'm fucking tired. I've had three beers. I'm going to sleep. That's your moderation, landy. I, I, I couldn't get shit face because I fall asleep.

Speaker 1: 53:50

Three beers, I'm chilling, relaxed, the trend's, going to sleep so I need to burn myself out and then I can drink.

Speaker 2: 53:56

Yeah, that's, maybe, that's that's the trick burn yourself out, dude, it's I mean and move to australia. Moderation lives. Move to move to australia because cocaine is crappy and it's super expensive. Oh, it's been years since I've had it, but it's like $350 for a gram, yes, and it's cut to the crap. It's terrible. Oh, what a terrible place. I think I had it at a stag maybe two years ago and it was just rubbish. I'm like shit. I didn't buy a whole bag, but I think the boys chipped in you have to do a whip around to get a bag because it's fucking expensive. He's got a hundred bucks. Oh, yeah, okay, you go. Yeah, it's yeah, so that's. You know, that's a good way to give up cocaine. Happen if you had it. Move to Australia.

Speaker 1: 54:48

Yeah, is it? Um, oh yeah. This is, we're gonna go down the whole tangent.

Speaker 2: 54:53

I'm not even gonna go tangent, so I'm not even gonna go there. I'm not even gonna go, is it? And it's um I? I I've never delved. No, no, no, no, no, I've done. I used to do pills when I was yeah I mean I. I, I was married young. I'm on my second marriage now oh the same.

Speaker 1: 55:13

Yeah, I did exactly the same thing. Well, not on my second marriage, but was married young On the first.

Speaker 2: 55:18

Yeah, when we split up, I sort of well, I think I was doing pills anyway, so I'd go out Friday night. I can't blame the girl for leaving me. Actually, I was going out Friday night and I'd come home Sunday, so probably not the best thing to do when you're a married man, but I was only 24. So far too young, far too young. So I've been married 2016, eight years now this month. So you know, I think I'm only just starting to mature, thank you. I'm slowly becoming a proper man at 43.

Speaker 1: 55:50

It's funny how that happens. I feel like there's a kind of, there's a breed of males, I think, that kind of and we all end up falling in the same kind of bracket of like. You only start to figure your shit out in your like mid-30s and you go, oh shit, okay, yeah, oh, that makes sense. Why didn't no one tell me any of this earlier? And I certainly spent like most of my 20s being like, oh fuck, oh fuck. That was just. My constant feeling was fuck, um, again, I was the same.

Speaker 1: 56:25

I got married way too young, um, and then when that relationship ended, that's when it was like all right, I'm just gonna get fucked up all the time now. Yeah, um, that was the start of it for me. I mean, yeah, but I'm better for it now because she's a bit no, I'm joking, she's not, she's really not. Do you know what? The most liberating thing to be able to say is like she, she left and is now with someone else, with a child, and married and all of that, and it happened very quickly, so we'll say no more on that. But, yeah, genuinely, the most liberating feeling is I'm just so bloody happy for them all because it was like well, clearly that was a good thing, man and that's wicked.

Speaker 1: 57:05

Um, yeah, yeah, definitely that's good being able to have like ex-wife jokes up in the in the ass. I still have so much joy in being like because of my darn ex-wife if I want to be like. You know that bitch.

Speaker 2: 57:21

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 57:22

If I want to fall into the deadbeat dad joke category, I can. I've got that life experience and that's what that gives me.

Speaker 2: 57:31

It's a journey, I think. You've got to learn all these things yourself, and for some of us it just takes a fuckload longer lots of alcohol free beers yeah, oh, definitely yeah yeah, that's right, and you know anyway.

Speaker 1: 57:46

So we've got, so we've got all of the all of the big boy hitters that you've been making. We've got the uk um, the uk ones coming over. Are they kind of like, are they going to be like a core range, or are you working on a core range or what's your kind of? Yeah, so we are working.

Speaker 2: 58:01

What do the next few years ideally look like for you On a core range. So I'm speaking. So the plan now and this will probably change next week after I speak to James and George, but fuck, no, you're not doing that is to release a core range and I'm going to do a lager and it will either be stoop or low-life. Now I haven't tried low-life yet and I should have by now and I haven't, but it will be here soon. So I'm thinking I just really like the label on it, but I think so. In Australia a normal can size is 375 mils, so the ones that we do 440s at one drop. So I guess, long-term, the plan is maybe the lager as a call and I've got a facility I can make that at who make other several non-out brands in Australia. So it's all very good to make that there and they've got the capacity and then maybe just these silly ones at one drop every few months just because it's fun. Yeah, you can enjoy yourself.

Speaker 2: 58:55

That's the longer-term plan. Need to pick up a distributor. I've been speaking to a couple um, all very interested with the idea. So there's just a lot more business acumen stuff. I need to understand and learn and lean on james because he's the, he's the brains behind that side. So, um, and then, yeah, I think that's it. So hopefully by the end of this year we we'll have a core lager. I know Jordan, I know they've done Stoop Light, which is low life in the US, so we might do the same here. But he's always pro no, do something specifically for that region, don't do what we're doing here to suit that region. So, yeah, we'll discuss that in the next few weeks, few months, I don't know, um, but yeah, I think, in a nutshell, core lager and maybe every three to four months, a big can of something silly, stupid. I'm gonna go cali ipa next at one drop in a few months time, so nice well, it's, yeah, it's exciting man.

Speaker 1: 59:54

It is exciting, is exciting, and I like the business model from talking about it with you. I like that it's your thing and I like that those guys are like they're helping out and it just seems really really cool man, like they're a good company. It is a good company, yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:00:10

Yeah, definitely, and they're good people. So it's good shit.

Speaker 1: 1:00:14

Yep. Well, thank you so much for coming in and chatting to me. Like it's been nice talking to you, man, like it's I like this, um this whole platform for for finding new friends and um discovering new beers that you wouldn't have discovered otherwise.

Speaker 2: 1:00:33

Yeah, no, I agree, it's, yeah, it's. It's probably the best part of social media. You can connect with like-minded people and and make new friends, you know, and you don't ever have to make them in person, but you can. You can have lots of banter in dms, like we do at some point when was a big mash gang event?

Speaker 1: 1:00:49

because I've never even met any of those guys in person oh really no, I thought you, so I was supposed to.

Speaker 1: 1:00:54

I'm gonna get in trouble here. Well, I thought you, so I was supposed I'm going to get in trouble here. Well, I'm not. So there was supposed to be an event sometime in January last year, yep, but George messaged me and was like, do you want to come and do something here? And I, literally this is how fucking clueless I am, well not clueless. But I ran downstairs after and spoke to my girlfriend, was like, fuck, they've asked me to do this. Like it's fucking what, what the fuck? This is mad. Yeah, and then that event didn't, didn't end up happening. Um, oh. So that was like when we would have met, um, yeah, fell apart. And then there was a time where alex was like, oh, do you want to come and do some shit with us? And I was like, yeah, fuck, yeah, um, yeah, and then that kind of didn't, didn't happen in the end and it's like, oh, for fuck's sake.

Speaker 2: 1:01:42

So one day it will happen. I mean, I only met them all in person at boxcarberry when we made the the dark mile there. Yes, where are they at there? Where was that brewery? It was east london, wasn't it? But it's I'd met, but it just I just felt like I was just we're just mates forever. Like it was canned in 2023, I think that wasn't it. Yeah, I was over for christmas.

Speaker 1: 1:02:05

Yeah, okay, oh yeah, I know that because I know, I know the christmas photo, classic mash gang, christmas car oh yes, mash, miss my um laptop battery's got 20 minutes left, so so Good talk for more hours.

Speaker 2: 1:02:19

I'm sure people don't want to listen to us ramble for over an hour on the podcast.

Speaker 1: 1:02:23

The first time I ever met Jordan was the second time.

Speaker 2: 1:02:27

Four score in the 20 years.

Speaker 1: 1:02:31

The 17th Zoom conversation I had with Jordan was sent to the realtor.

Speaker 2: 1:02:37

We can sell the diary, do you know, Next year? I'm over next year, so I think we try and organize something.

Speaker 1: 1:02:43

Yeah, I'm just going to get in on it as an honorary member. I'm still trying to do that.

Speaker 2: 1:02:48

So when you crack that, I'll do that. Just me making beers for them.

Speaker 1: 1:02:54

I'll sabotage other breweries for them and just be like this beer's really shit and yeah, that'll be good. Um, but yes, I'm sure our paths will cross at some point, but until then, um well, I'll probably talk to you, like at some point over the next 24 hours on Instagram. Thank you, brother, Take care. No thanks, Thanks for the invite at some point over the next 24 hours on.

Speaker 2: 1:03:16

Instagram. Definitely 100%. Thank you, brother, take care, no worries, thanks. Thanks for the invite. Cheers.

Speaker 1: 1:03:21

Thank you for listening to this week's episode of the Sober Boozers Club podcast. My name is Ben Gibbs. You can find me on all the socials at Sober Boozers Club To see what Trent's doing over in Australia, head to mashgangcomau Although if you're from the UK, then that's probably pointless, because you'll just get jealous. If you want to nag the rest of the Mash Gang guys about getting the beers over in the UK, head on over to all of our Instagram pages. There's a UK one, there's an American one, there's an Australian one. There'll soon be a South Birmingham one. For now, you relax and I'll catch you soon.