Ever wondered if you could rebuild your life in your 40s without relying on alcohol? Join us for a heartfelt chat with Michael Sarooud, also known as Happy Without the Hooch, as he candidly shares his journey through early sobriety. We laugh and learn about weight gain, the struggle for a healthier lifestyle, and overcoming the physical and emotional hurdles of quitting alcohol. Michael's multiple attempts at moderation over a decade and the pivotal moment that led him to a sober life offer both insight and inspiration.
We also navigate the complex relationship with alcohol and the switch to alcohol-free drinks. Michael opens up about his realization that he didn't even enjoy the taste of alcohol, and how he transitioned to functional beverages like gabba spirits and Three Spirit drinks, despite initial concerns about potential triggers. With a touch of humor, we reminisce about our youth, experimenting with smoking herbs and searching for alternative highs. These stories highlight the uniqueness of each person's recovery journey and underscore the importance of personal growth.
Lastly, we critique the role of Drink Aware, a charity funded by the alcohol industry, in promoting responsible drinking. We dive into intriguing nutritional facts about animals and ponder human evolution. Michael’s earnest reflections on working night shifts in a kebab factory remind us that sobriety doesn't erase life's challenges but equips us with tools to navigate them better. From facing the horror of pub bathrooms sober to realizing it’s okay to leave unfulfilling social situations, this episode is a blend of humor, raw honesty, and practical wisdom on living a sober life.
To find Michael you can head over to all of his socials (Happy Without The Hooch) or go to www.sobernews.co.uk
To find out more about the wonderful world of AF/NA Beer and to check in with me head to www.instagram.com/sober_boozers_club
This episode is not brought to you by any sponsors because nobody wants to sponsor me.
Ever wondered if you could rebuild your life in your 40s without relying on alcohol? Join us for a heartfelt chat with Michael Sarooud, also known as Happy Without the Hooch, as he candidly shares his journey through early sobriety. We laugh and learn about weight gain, the struggle for a healthier lifestyle, and overcoming the physical and emotional hurdles of quitting alcohol. Michael's multiple attempts at moderation over a decade and the pivotal moment that led him to a sober life offer both insight and inspiration.
We also navigate the complex relationship with alcohol and the switch to alcohol-free drinks. Michael opens up about his realization that he didn't even enjoy the taste of alcohol, and how he transitioned to functional beverages like gabba spirits and Three Spirit drinks, despite initial concerns about potential triggers. With a touch of humor, we reminisce about our youth, experimenting with smoking herbs and searching for alternative highs. These stories highlight the uniqueness of each person's recovery journey and underscore the importance of personal growth.
Lastly, we critique the role of Drink Aware, a charity funded by the alcohol industry, in promoting responsible drinking. We dive into intriguing nutritional facts about animals and ponder human evolution. Michael’s earnest reflections on working night shifts in a kebab factory remind us that sobriety doesn't erase life's challenges but equips us with tools to navigate them better. From facing the horror of pub bathrooms sober to realizing it’s okay to leave unfulfilling social situations, this episode is a blend of humor, raw honesty, and practical wisdom on living a sober life.
To find Michael you can head over to all of his socials (Happy Without The Hooch) or go to www.sobernews.co.uk
To find out more about the wonderful world of AF/NA Beer and to check in with me head to www.instagram.com/sober_boozers_club
This episode is not brought to you by any sponsors because nobody wants to sponsor me.
Welcome to the Sober Boozers Club podcast, a place where we can talk openly and honestly about addiction, sobriety and, strangely enough, beer. I'm Ben, I'm an alcoholic and for the last two years, I've been sampling some of the finest alcohol-free beers the world has to offer. Each week, I'll be joined by a different guest to discuss their own lived experiences on all things related to the world of low and no alcohol beverages. So pour yourself a tipple, relax and let me welcome you to the Sober Boozers Club. In today's episode, I talked to Michael Sargud, otherwise known as Happy Without the Hooch. Now Michael decided to rebuild his life in his 40s and has since become an Alcohol Change UK ambassador and is the founder of Sober News UK. Michael's a really active member of the sober community and he's bloody hilarious. So it's been really nice to really break down sobriety and some of the myths surrounding early sobriety in a really open and honest way. So if you haven't met Michael yet, this is for you. So, michael, hello, how are you today?
Speaker 2:Hello, I'm exceedingly well, thank you, and yourself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I'm not bad, thank you. It's been a wash day today, as we were just discussing, and I believe you're off to the gym later.
Speaker 2:When you say a wash day, I think that means carrying the clothes.
Speaker 1:I mean, you wash every day, don't you?
Speaker 2:I wash most days, these days, that's the one gift that sobriety has given me. There's a fragrant armpit. Yeah, send everywhere else, for that matter I'll have to take your word for that you're off to the gym.
Speaker 1:How incredibly cliched don't.
Speaker 2:It's been three years now. I've got really fat because I'm not one of those. I'm not one of those instagram sober people, you know, but I'm on Instagram but I'm not very Instagrammable. I just do it in spite of being not Instagrammable. Um, and I haven't really transformed my life overnight by giving up drinking and going to the gym every day, finding purpose, living out the vision board and making it all manifest. I have, I've done none of that. I've mainly binge eaten with the cats in front of Netflix for three years, during which time I've got exceedingly fat. And, um, I got puffed out putting the laundry in the washing machine the other day and that was my health and fitness rock bottom and I thought you know what? I've got to do something about this. My partner might die and I might find myself widowed, and then no one's going to want me, so I'd better sort myself out.
Speaker 1:It's scary, isn't it, when I've noticed so many ailments since I stopped drinking, Whereas I mean I know I must be more healthy, but since I gave up booze, it's kind of like, oh, this is going on, it must be cancer.
Speaker 2:Like I'm so anxious about my general health since I stopped drinking yeah, it's just, I want to be comfortable when I'm lying in bed and it's it's hard to get comfortable lying on a tire, which is essentially what I'm doing. Um, I never used to have this problem, um, but yeah, I don't. I don't, as, as an ex once said to me like you said, michael, you've got to go to the gym because I don't want to be with someone who's old and fat and you can't do anything about being old. So I'm going to tell you something about the thing I can do something about. Being being overweight is a choice. I do enjoy eating the food, but I'm training my brain to enjoy the taste of leaves and I'm trying to convince myself that I enjoy sweating well, that's a that's a daily challenge for most people.
Speaker 1:I think it is.
Speaker 2:I've. I got up at six to go to the gym. It's now 1 pm and I still haven't made it. Um, I've got the early morning starting, though I never used to do that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's half of the battle, I think.
Speaker 2:At least you're willing this to go, isn't it? I've been getting up at six to go to the gym and then there's so many crosswords and puzzles and then the wordle and everything. By the time I've done all those, I've not got enough time left for the gym, so I just have to make some breakfast.
Speaker 1:So, talking about sob, well, you know sobriety and the cliches that we're not following. What did your first day of sobriety look like? First day, yes.
Speaker 2:Oh God, I suppose my first day of sobriety was actually lying on a sofa sweating, shaking. I couldn't even put the telly on because that was too much stimulation and I got up about three times to drink water and wee, and that was day one done.
Speaker 1:I think that's quite a common theme. I mean, my first day started at 5.30 and I don't really remember the rest of it. I tried to sleep.
Speaker 2:I couldn't even sleep. I was just lying there shaking, and then I realised that no one's going to come round and I thought well, I might as well see this. It was horrible. I'd been on a. It was the end of a drinking session that had lasted days and led on to other substances as well, and then I was just cold, shivering, horrible wreck, and I thought I just can't do this anymore.
Speaker 1:I'm just bored of feeling like death and how many attempts did you have, or how many attempts at moderation? Was this like a an ongoing thing?
Speaker 2:moderation. Um, I had 10 years of attempts. So I don't know I don't have number really for how many attempts um, for the last three years of my drinking, I was regularly attending my local drug and alcohol center. Yeah, um, and I would sometimes make it up to a week. I have I've had some stints of sobriety and then the day one I've just described I it's debatable whether that's day one or not, because I stayed sober for seven months and then I relapsed for three, but that was my first concerted, semi-successful effort.
Speaker 2:I'd stayed sober for seven months and then drank every day again for three months, but I had been attempting in various ways to moderate. I didn't want to stop forever. That sounded miserable. I just wanted to be a normal person drink. I didn't want to stop forever. That sounded miserable. I just wanted to be a normal person, drink like a normal person, have fun, you know like go home and wake up the next day without feeling like death or finding you've injured yourself.
Speaker 1:It's a scary thing, isn't it? At first before of never again, because you start thinking weddings, you start thinking birthdays, Christmas, et cetera.
Speaker 2:There was never a good time to stop. It's like, okay, well, I can't stop this week because next weekend I've got my friends coming down from norfolk and they'll be expecting, but they wouldn't come along if they weren't having a piss up. That's the reason they're coming and they've spent money on trains and things and this and that and then, oh, and then after that got a birthday, or then there's a wedding and I can't not drink at the wedding. And that now, in hindsight, is ridiculous, because all I ever did at weddings was spoil people's weddings by drinking. Yeah, I was thinking, oh, it would be rude, it would be rude of me not to drink at their wedding. What a slight that would be. No, actually, being a complete drunken arsehole at the wedding, that was. That was the offensive bit. Yeah, not the fact that you didn't drink and have have these people. You know that you were worried. Being a complete drunken arsehole at the wedding, that was the offensive bit. Yeah, not the fact that you didn't drink.
Speaker 1:And have these people that you were worried about. Did they leave once you stopped drinking, or are you still close with them? Or how have your relationships with these people changed since sobriety?
Speaker 2:They've drifted apart. Mainly, my group of friends today is completely different to my group of friends when I was drinking. I didn't really have a group of friends today. Uh is completely different to my group of friends when I was drinking. I didn't really have a group of friends towards the end of my drinking because I was just not pleasant company no, it does, it happens, doesn't it.
Speaker 2:I was embarrassing. Yeah, I was. It was I. I loved a good night owl, but the people I were with generally didn't, because they ended up looking after me and that's not much fun, as I've discovered since I stopped drinking and continued going out looking after everyone else and actually realizing bloody hell.
Speaker 1:This is boring it's scary, isn't it? I think it gets to about 11 pm, I've noticed, and then this kind of atmosphere change occurs, where you kind of, if you're going from bar to bar at the 11 o'clock kind of cut off, you go outside and everyone is different. And it's as if this mist has come through and they've all been infected and changed and it's really bizarre to see it happen.
Speaker 2:And then by 2am. It's just absolutely intolerable.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've normally just got a headache by that time. The strangest thing is waking up with kind of the faux hangover. When you wake up and you've kind of got the headache and you feel a little bit worse for wear, and then you just have a glass of water and it's gone.
Speaker 2:I'm tired and I've had too much sugar normally yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. So, talking about nights out, are you a drinker of alcohol-free beverages? Is that something that you dabble in or is that a trigger for you? Because it is important, I think, to discuss. They're not for everybody.
Speaker 2:They weren't like a really important coping mechanism for me. I know they are, for some people, a really important coping mechanism for me. You know they are for some people, some people like they're, you know, sober, long term and alcohol-free drinks to help them get through. Well I discovered. Well, I didn't discover. I've always known it. Really I don't particularly like the flavor of most alcoholic drinks, but I never drank them for the flavor yeah, mm-hmm yeah.
Speaker 2:So, like it's not, I haven't missed the flavour of beer. I mean, if I was out I would knock back pints of beer because that's what men do. Yes, I've never liked lager, but you know, pints of Foster I'd have. That If I was at home. I'd secretly I'd just be on neat vodka or like cheap Merlot, hard merlot, hardy's turning leaf merlot or some sort of five pounder bottle crap. Yeah, you know what. That doesn't taste nice either, and neat vodka doesn't.
Speaker 2:I went on to neat vodka. I used to have mixes with it, but then it was just a faff. Having to add two drinks to a glass and then like coke costs about two pounds a bottle. Well, the vodka I was buying was from Lidl and that was 10 pounds a bottle. So the bottle of coke, that's one, that's one fifth, yeah, a bottle of vodka. And I know I'd need more vodka and my money might not stretch till the end of the month if I kept on getting a bottle of coke every time I bought a bottle of vodka. So you know priorities. So I've dabbled in alcohol-free drinks. There's some that I like, like functional drinks, um, yes, but I don't have them very often.
Speaker 2:I'll have them if I'm at a sober event and I'll have some in the house. I seem to acquire them. I've picked up a few. I've been given some as well, and I like adult soft drinks just as much. My staples are just ginger, sugar-free ginger ale. I can guzzle that.
Speaker 1:Nice. Love a bit of iron brew Ginger ale, I can guzzle that Nice Love a bit of iron brew.
Speaker 2:Yes, king of the soft drinks, yeah, so soft drinks are good. And then, you know, I have dabbled in the odd kombuchas, but not so much now. I'm happy with water, tea and coffee, mainly.
Speaker 1:I think that's the thing. They aren't for everybody, and it's something that I kind of stress, um, or try to stress at least, is that you know, this is what has helped me, but it isn't what will help everybody. And you know, no recovery journey looks the same, does it. Everyone is different, everyone has different kind of vices, um, some people will find them triggering yes, absolutely um my.
Speaker 2:My partner's also sober 18 months Nice and he on a couple of occasions went out, bought alcohol-free beers, had about three bottles, and then got frustrated that they weren't working and then snuck out and came back with the real thing. Right, yeah, so I mean I started dabbling in alcohol-free drinks probably about six months into being sober anyway, so I've got over most of it.
Speaker 2:I wasn't relying upon them from day one yes um, and I was concerned that I might be triggered, so I thought I'll just run, I won't bother then, um, I'll do it without. But now I can enjoy. I like, like gabba spirits. You know scent here. I like things that change like you change your mood. Three spirit drinks as well.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? Looking into all of that. I mean, the first time I kind of tried a functional drink, it was an Impossa Brew beer and it was like I had it and I kind of sat there going like I'm a bit nervous and it's so strange because the amount of shit that I used to put into my body and there I was drinking some, you know, some herbs yes it's like what if I suddenly feel relaxed, ridiculous or the things I used to?
Speaker 1:I can remember once being at a party and rolling someone a spliff with coriander because I didn't want to give them my weed and I just sat there from the other end of the room looking I wonder what's going to happen to him. And he smoked it and I don't know if it was like placebo, but it did something.
Speaker 2:To Monk's Dennis. Well, I, as a teenager, I used to smoke weed before I smoked, really, and before I drank from the age of 12. And I had no weed, and me and my friend Joe, we lived next to the woods. I took half of my stepmum's herb collection and we worked our way through smoking. Each of the herbs Sage was unbearable.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And we just tried them all to see if any of them gave us a hit, and it was just the most horrific experience. We almost set fire to the woods as well, because it was parched dry and it's like little film it was. It was horrific and none of them worked no, and don't smoke.
Speaker 1:Sage, imagine if I did work. Won't you have the first people to discover it?
Speaker 2:I know that's what I thought was going to happen. It's like, oh my God, people are spending all this money on drugs and here I am discovering that actually, English flat leaf parsley is what you should be cultivating rather than smoking. Yeah, but no, I didn't make such a discovery. No, obviously somebody before me had also tried their entire mum's herb collection.
Speaker 1:Yeah, somebody before me had also tried their entire mum's herb collection. Yeah, I've always wondered, with smoking like, the origins of it, because I just imagine, you know it's, it's a really natural thing, isn't it? They discovered fire and then they thought, okay, fire is cool, I want fire in me and that that's.
Speaker 2:That's how smoking is like yeah, I'm. You find that generally, when you like something, you want it in you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, often that's often.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's what's led to most of my issues, to be honest, I mean they had that trend up north when I was living in Manchester in the mid-noughties of wheelie bin people setting fire to wheelie bins to get high off of the fumes of the melting plastic. Oh, no. I've heard that this craze has started again.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:How plastic. Oh, I've heard this craze has started again. Okay, how desperate must you be for a high to? Start inhaling wheelie bin wheelie bin name and fumes yeah, that's outrageous and very specific as well and think of the cost of the council taxpayer.
Speaker 1:Yeah I mean, um, I've found a good fact recently. That might be nonsense, but I'm going to take it as gospel.
Speaker 2:We'll call it a fact though.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, and I won't be fact-checked because I'm not famous enough, but it's that pandas shouldn't eat bamboo.
Speaker 2:No, that's the only thing they do eat.
Speaker 1:But apparently bamboo gives them absolutely no nutritional value, like nothing, but they choose to eat it because it makes them high there's been like koalas, then with the eucalyptus they get, I think it is? I think it is koalas with eucalyptus.
Speaker 2:I don't think it's pandas and bamboo oh, I should have researched this before I started talking about it that's fine, like we got there eventually in the concept one of those two bears yeah shouldn't eat what they eat, and I think it might be koalas yeah, they do get the nutrition, but it also makes them high.
Speaker 2:The only thing they'll eat also makes them high, which is a bit like me and my relationship with alcohol the only thing I put in my stomach made me high and uh. But I was also thinking about nutrition cows. The other day I was just lying in bed because I struggle to sleep still, and so sleep doesn't always happen no, there is a lot of protein on the cow isn't there.
Speaker 2:Yes, like you get a lot of meat on it. Where are they getting their protein from? They're only eating grass. How much grass? Last time I checked, grass isn't rich in protein.
Speaker 1:Well, this was an argument when I went, because I went vegan for a while and when I was an alcoholic I was really angry about everything, so I became quite a militant vegan. I can imagine that, yeah, yeah and it was kind of the argument about protein. I used to come back with that. Where do you think a cow gets its protein from plants? Um, I don't know what the protein value of grass is. I know broccoli's quite good but it's not.
Speaker 2:I just don't see how a beast the size of a cow can that, which you get huge chunks of meat off of, how it can get it just from grow. I mean, it does have four stomachs.
Speaker 1:I don't know if that helps it must do, it must be something just inefficient at extracting the protein from grass?
Speaker 2:yeah, because we only have one stomach. That could be it, and if we, there must be people out there who've got mutations and have like two stomachs. Maybe they're like better at absorbing protein maybe that's what.
Speaker 1:Maybe that's. Those are the people that go to the gym after 5 pm the future of the human race.
Speaker 2:I think we're going to have more stomachs, because the mutants with the two stomachs, who are better at absorbing leaf protein, are going to be better equipped to handle the protein crisis that we face with an increasing population. They're going to start breeding and they're going to have a competitive advantage survival of the fittest and before you know it, we're all going to have four stomachs and six udders. I did think this would happen, that we might digress.
Speaker 1:Well, this is sobriety in a nutshell, isn't it? I think it's kind of just talking absolute nonsense.
Speaker 2:I've only got the one stomach.
Speaker 1:I'm working on the others, these that's one of the reasons I'm going to the gym is to reduce the others talk to me about drink aware, because this is something that you, um, you, talked about recently and actually it made me go, oh shit, for lack of a better word a very naughty charity.
Speaker 2:Yes, the sheep in wolf's clothing, it um there's. There's two large national charities in the uk the campaign on reducing alcohol harm and alcohol change uk and drinkware um. Seemingly very similar, other than their makeup, really. Alcohol change Change UK is a charity. It makes its money from donations. Plus, the government had opened up this fund that had been created from alcohol licensing many years ago and there's this big pot of cash that accumulates interesting things and they get some funding from that. So all very ethical and they are on a mission to eliminate alcohol harm and they've got all sorts of resources to help you do it. And then the income is also made up from people doing fundraising activities. I've done some myself, and Drink Aware, on the other hand, is a charity which is set up and funded by the alcohol industry, so their funding is almost entirely from donations from the alcohol industry. They also aim to reduce alcohol harm. It's slightly inauthentic, some people might argue. Why would the alcohol industry pay millions of pounds to help promote um, a charity that reduces alcohol harm?
Speaker 2:and the main reason for that is because alcohol in the uk, the alcohol industry, is not regulated by government, is self-regulated oh good, well, that always works yes, so the alcohol industry polices the alcohol industry and in order to maintain that because they don't want external regulation, they don't want another body to be looking into them and doing it they show that they're able to do it by funding a charity, which they then have control over and they can control the messaging. So they put money into this group to show that they are capable of policing themselves and therefore don't come and take over the policing job and um that that they they make money from donations, but also that little tiny drink, aware um?
Speaker 2:yeah, the logo yeah, if you look hard enough, yes, it's quite small. They also um, they do things such as um looking at the messaging that they they give out. If you want to look up um messaging regarding alcohol harm drink, where's more likely to tell you to drink responsibly? So, and if there's, if you get any trouble in your life as a result of alcohol, it's because you didn't follow their good advice of drinking responsibly. That tiny little message they put in the corner of the bottle. That's going to be hard to find, so it very much puts the onus back on the person buying the alcohol.
Speaker 2:Um, they have an app as well and it's called dry days. They don't want to tell you to stop drinking, they just try and tell you to take some dry days. Um, they will also tell you about the dangers of um excessive drinking, such as breast cancer. They will tell you about that, but they they don't like to so much. Um and when, if you ask them about the risk of breast cancer from alcohol, they'll tell you it is one of many causes. They'll minimise the impact of alcohol, say, yes, they won't deny the existence of it, of the link, but they will minimise it and tell you there's lots of other lifestyle changes which you could make that would reduce your chances. So it's just, it has an agenda.
Speaker 1:It's putting the ownership on the drinker?
Speaker 2:Yes, exactly.
Speaker 1:And I think that's such a. It's like you wouldn't say to a cancer patient, well, it's your fault. I mean maybe to a smoker, some people would. It would be very cruel. But to anyone suffering with any kind of disease which you know, but to to anyone suffering with you know, with any kind of disease which alcoholism is you, you wouldn't turn around and say, well, well you, you had the choice here. It's you know, it's a strange situation to be in, isn't it? When you, when you really do look into it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, big alcohol is no better than big tobacco was. We can see today what to big tobacco was like yeah, and we think it's archaic, and we can see the cruelty behind. I mean, alcohol today is what alcohol, um, tobacco was like 30 years ago, 40 years. It's glamorized like tobacco was, yeah, um, and now it's seen as uncool, isn't it? So I'm hoping that we have a similar shift towards alcohol.
Speaker 2:Um, I think it's startling the difference between how we treat the two substances. Tobacco has to be hidden away. There's no advertising of it, the boxes are bland and they contain very clear warnings, and that's because it causes harm. It's harmful, but alcohol also causes harm. The harms are different. They're maybe not as pronounced, some would say, as the harms of smoking on the person who takes the drug, but the harms to society of alcohol far exceeds the harms of society to smoking. Nobody goes out, buys a pack of 20 mole bralites, for example. They don't then go on some sort of off the cuff shoplifting spree because they think it's funny, or they don't smoke a pack of um, or they don't smoke a pack of cigarettes, go and then plough someone down in the car.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:They don't get involved in acts of violence. I mean nearly half of all violent crime is alcohol related.
Speaker 1:Yeah well, it's a massive lubricant, isn't it? Almost zero percent of violent crime is cigarette related In fact, I'd say 0%, unless you steal a cigarette off a drunk person.
Speaker 2:The harms are different, but the harms of alcohol are much more pronounced. Yeah, it's still. You can't advertise it as freely as you used to be able to, but you can still advertise it. So we've got alcohol companies sponsoring sports clubs, because obviously we all know that alcohol is a great sport and a performance-enhancing drug.
Speaker 2:We're pouring money into things like Pride to show how wonderful and liberal they are, but also massive advertising, and people will make the argument oh well, the government's never going to change because they make too much money from alcohol, and that's just got to be one of the biggest misconceptions out there, because the government does make money from taxing alcohol yeah it makes um 13 billion pounds a year through the taxation of through alcohol duty.
Speaker 2:but the latest estimates on the cost of society ie the taxpayer of alcohol harm is £27 billion a year. So that means that alcohol duty isn't even paying half of the harm that alcohol causes to society.
Speaker 1:Wow, it's scary.
Speaker 2:And we've just had tax on alcohol. The duty has just been frozen in the last budget announcement again. So if we're going to tax alcohol, my personal opinion is that it should at least pay for the harm it causes, because the tax goes on to the alcohol producers, and they are multi-billion pound companies. They make billions and billions every year and they're not even paying for half of the harm that alcohol causes yeah, well, when you think of who kind of runs that that side of big business?
Speaker 1:it's, it's very, very few companies, isn't it?
Speaker 2:when you're talking about like we're not talking about little micro breweries.
Speaker 1:Here we're talking about big, big, big business, yeah talking about big big big business. Yeah, and it's scary.
Speaker 2:And they're not picking up the tab. No, they are taking in the profit, and when alcohol tax is frozen they get a little bit more profit. And then the taxpayer. So you and me are paying the bill for the NHS, for the police, for all the harms that alcohol does. It's me and you who's paying extra on top of that. Even if you choose not to drink, you're still paying for the harms of alcohol.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's outrageous. We should be exempt.
Speaker 2:Maybe that's what we should petition, for I think that's true.
Speaker 1:Like fuck sobriety activism. I want to look after myself.
Speaker 2:Exactly, we should get a rebate.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think so as well.
Speaker 2:A sober rebate. Let's campaign for that.
Speaker 1:That would be incentive, wouldn't it?
Speaker 2:But big alcohol, the industry itself. In terms of revenue, there's only 16 countries in the world that have a greater revenue than big alcohol. They have greater gdp than big alcohol makes in revenue. That means all the other countries in the world make less than the alcohol industry in gdp fuck me that's.
Speaker 1:And they're not paying the tab, and they should pay for the harm they cause.
Speaker 2:That's my little rant over.
Speaker 1:Well, when you start investing your time into this and looking into it, it outrages you, doesn't it?
Speaker 2:It's an absolute bloody scandal.
Speaker 1:It had me. Alcohol had me well and truly. If I'd have carried on, I don't know what my life would have looked like. And then, once you stop drinking, can you look into what goes behind? You know this poison that we put into ourselves when you open your eyes and see it. It's always been there and you can always you've always been able to look at it and go hang on. This isn't right here. Why are we doing this to ourselves? But it really does just. It gets you, doesn't it?
Speaker 2:it does. It's a good business model because it's addictive. Yeah, since going sober I mean I've had lots of uh, I've hosted events myself sober nights out getting them to pay for themselves is difficult because when people go to a sober event, they will have one or two drinks and then stop. For some strange reason, which I can't explain, they don't feel the need to knock back 10 alcohol-free drinks in two hours no it, I don't know why that is.
Speaker 1:You know, like I often find this I get. I get five pints deep and I think I've got enough liquid in me now yeah, it's like.
Speaker 2:It's so strange, isn't it urinate? For now it's like I had the flavor. That was nice. I can now stop.
Speaker 1:Thank you very much and talking about urine, I hate having to go to the toilet in a pub without my booze jacket on. It's just, it's repulsive your booze jacket yeah, you know, like when you're, when you're four pints deep, you piss in the middle of a dance floor. It's fine, but I think I know, I know that's not even the worst thing I did, um, but before going, then what?
Speaker 2:even the worst thing I did, but the thought of going. What's the worst thing you did?
Speaker 1:Oh my goodness, Pass that idea Carry on. The thought of going into a pub bathroom now, completely sober, is just like this, is just a horror show.
Speaker 2:It is. I still go to pubs, but it's breakfast or lunch, mm-hmm. I don't even bother going out in the evening anymore. When I first stopped drinking I was determined every weekend I must go out, must go out, must go out. And then I'd hear people who had been long term sober and say I don't go out in the evening, I just do things during the day. And I was thinking oh, I never want to be one of you people. I'm never going to be saddo like that. I'm going to be one of you people. I'm never going to be a saddo like that. I'm going to show the world just how much fun you can have sober. And then I'll wake up without a hangover. And every Friday and Saturday night I was out in the pub having a miserable, bloody time and giving them lifts back or making sure, you know, calling the ambulance or making sure they got home safe. And, of course, on the way to the car they'd all have to stop off for a dirty kebab and they couldn't get the order right. They'd drop it to him.
Speaker 1:The McDonald's drive home because for me I'm a designated driver now and every time you're driving back. Can we stop at Mackey's?
Speaker 2:I don't go out with people who are drinking. Now I just don't do it because I always have a miserable time. It's like I only get a weekend off every week. That's, that's your free time. Yeah, I don't want to spend it looking after drunk people.
Speaker 2:I tried to have fun for a very long time and I in the end I was like, oh, I think I. I think I understand now why these longer term sober people aren't really going out in the evening. I might go out for a bite tweet or go out to the cinema, but I'm not going out until 3am with a group of people who are drinking because there's absolutely. I thought that it would become more fun. I thought because obviously I'd had nights where I'd been designated driver before and I knew they were absolutely miserable. But I thought that with a bit of practice they stopped being miserable and they'd become fun. And they didn't. They always stayed exactly the same, exactly as horrific as when you designated driver that bit. And I see people saying how they have even more fun sober than they did drunk, and they tend to be the same people who say they enjoy going to the gym, and I think they're big fat liars.
Speaker 1:I think it is important to break that down though, especially on on things like this, because I mean, the only time and I probably shouldn't admit this, but the only time I ever listened to a sober podcast was in my first week of sobriety, and I have always been, didn't?
Speaker 2:it shows how they are, because I was still sober.
Speaker 1:You only needed one podcast yeah, one podcast and that was it. I don't know why I didn't do it years earlier, um, but I kind of I really looked into these like sober resources, um, and it was all your skin's gonna be better, you're gonna sleep better, you're gonna do this. It gave me the power to rediscover myself and I was just sat there like well, I feel awful, like you know, a week of sobriety didn't make you know. A week of sobriety didn't make me sleep better. A week of sobriety didn't make my skin.
Speaker 2:You meant to make you feel better after a week.
Speaker 1:Well, that's what some people said.
Speaker 2:Well, it's individual, isn't it?
Speaker 1:It's like a positivity cult isn't it. And you know, sobriety without a doubt has saved my life and sobriety, without a doubt has saved my life, and sobriety, without a doubt, has changed my life and I wouldn't be where I am now without my sobriety. But you know, life is still life and sometimes that's really shit.
Speaker 2:Sometimes it's a complete shit hole, a shit show. Um, I mean, last year, not so long ago, I was working night shifts cleaning a kebab factory. Now, sobriety doesn't make that any better.
Speaker 1:No, quite the opposite.
Speaker 2:Yeah, after you've been crawling on your knees scraping up lamb fat from the UK's largest kebab factory for several hours and then you're going home getting in bed at 6am. Life is still shit whether you're sober or not, but I've managed to get out of that. Maybe if I was still drinking that is. That is the sort of job I'd end up doing for the rest of my life.
Speaker 1:Yeah I think that's the thing is what. What sobriety has given me is the tools to to process these feelings and to process these occurrences and also just not to do something that doesn't serve me anymore. So if I'm on a night with my friends and it gets to 11 o'clock and I'm tired, I'll go home and that's okay.
Speaker 2:Whereas beforehand.
Speaker 1:I'd have stuck around in a situation that wasn't good for me and wasn't healthy for me, and who knows what would have happened.
Speaker 2:So that's what sobriety has done for me and often you don't even find out what happened oh no, I hate that, I hate.
Speaker 1:I've still got some nights where it's not all there what, even though you're sober? No, as in from um from my drinking days no, not now.
Speaker 2:I mean that's I thought maybe you came back from the cafe and was like I have no idea how I got home. Start checking the local police Twitter account to see if you attacked anyone on the way.
Speaker 1:The sudden smell of burning toast and a limpness in my left arm.
Speaker 2:I have done that before and I laugh about it. It was absolutely horrific. I used to come back sometimes with injuries that I couldn't account for, and now I have. I have done that before and I laugh about it. It was absolutely horrific. I mean, I used to come back sometimes with injuries, yeah, that I couldn't account for. And now I have this terrible feeling, even though I'm a complete weakling and a lover, not a fighter I think, oh my god, if I'm in, it looks like I've been in a fight, so in all likelihood I've been in a fight. And then this thought what if I won the fight? I know it's unlikely. What if I won the fight and the other person is worse off than me? And then I I spent a whole day, a whole weekend checking the local police twitter account for appeals for information to see if there's any appeals for someone who looked like me or was in the area that I was and were forever in it no, I still don't know what happened that particular night.
Speaker 2:I'm thinking of on the person whose house I went round. She's now an MP. Wow, it was a wild party. I'd originally walked out without any trousers on and she had to go and get me back. I hadn't realised I hadn't got trousers on and she had to dress me.
Speaker 1:That happens to the best of us.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it doesn't, though I used to think this is just something that happens, but a lot of people this never happens to.
Speaker 1:It's scary, isn't it? So my girlfriend now she met me as I was just got sober and some of the stories that I have is like no, no, I did do all of this, and she'll kind of be like no, no, no, it wouldn't have been. Like no, no, I did do all of this. And she'll kind of be like no, no, no, it wouldn't have been that bad.
Speaker 2:And it's like no, no, no, I was a bad guy. I know you a little bit like myself. You sound a little bit posh, don't you sometimes?
Speaker 1:Occasionally.
Speaker 2:And that leads to disbelief, doesn't it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, no you can't be a bad boy.
Speaker 2:I think people look at me yes, yes, look at you know I'm on the face still. Yeah, I'm, I'm an ex-con.
Speaker 1:People don't believe it it's like but you're so middle class. And it's like, yes, but you know well, alcohol doesn't pick, does it?
Speaker 2:no, it not discriminate.
Speaker 1:One more thing to ask you about Sober News UK. Yes, tell me about this, because it looks very exciting.
Speaker 2:I got very bored, very bored. When I sobered up I all of a sudden got all this time and no friends and no hobbies. I thought I've got to do something, because I just got to do anything to stop myself drinking. Um, and as we came out of lockdown, there were more and more sober events going on. I was hosting some myself, so I thought I need a website to sell tickets to some events yeah and then I thought you know what I'm not doing?
Speaker 2:so many events now, but there's loads more events out there. I'd better I I don't know how to find them. It was very difficult to find them. I found lots of individual people putting on events and it was very difficult to find anything unless you spent hours trawling the internet. So I thought I will put them all on my website. And then I started writing a blog and I started writing news and features about people's recovery journeys, about the alcohol industry, about sober events, things, and I've just kept doing that because I'm an obsessive sort of person. And so now I still blog there and I help promote sober events and also sober groups, sober meetup groups, and I survive off of little donations that I get from people Because it's expensive. People don't realise how expensive it is to run a bloody website.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's ridiculous. All of this stuff is so.
Speaker 2:That's now £400 a year, plus monthly costs, and then you have to get these plug-ins for the events, and so, oh God Do you know what would solve that issue?
Speaker 1:Yes, giving us a sober rebate. That know what would solve that issue? Yes, giving us a sober rebate. That's what would solve the issue.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the sober bloody rebate. We want it paid for by the alcohol industry.
Speaker 1:Yeah, give us a sober rebate so we can do our podcasts and make our little groups and do our little Instagram pages, and then the world will be great.
Speaker 2:I've often thought that the government should pay you just to be sober. I'm like is this a lot of work? It's a full-time job. Yeah, instead of just a rebate, a pension they should put you on a sobriety pension sobriety pension? Yeah, I think once you've um gone sober and you've had about six months, I think that's that's fair enough. You then start getting 20 grand a year from the government yeah you're being sober because it's a full-time job.
Speaker 2:Because people think, oh, how much work can it be not drinking? It's a full-time job because people think, oh, how much work can it be not drinking? It's not just not drinking, is it? Because you've got to have a blog, you've got to do a podcast, you've got to get up every morning to do your cold water dip. It takes up a lot of time this thing.
Speaker 1:There's no point being sober unless you're going to talk about it on the internet.
Speaker 2:Exactly constantly. You've got to proselytise and make as many other people sober as possible, like a militant vegan.
Speaker 1:Yeah, people don't realise this. I think it's one of the biggest crimes against the sober community.
Speaker 2:It's exhausting. It's a full-time job.
Speaker 1:What would you say to somebody who might be listening to this, like I was two years ago in my first week of sobriety your first week and they're going to listen to this and they're never going to listen to a sobriety podcast again. What would you say to that person who might be feeling like you know their life is over?
Speaker 2:I would say there are other podcasts available. It's not just Michael and Ben.
Speaker 1:This is not the God, imagine how fucked we'd be if this was it, Exactly if this was it.
Speaker 2:Exactly, if this is your only help.
Speaker 1:We'd be the only two sober people left.
Speaker 2:Yeah, please don't let us put you off. Keep it up. Other resources are available. Was that on brand, then? I think?
Speaker 1:that was perfect. So on that I'm going to say thank you very much. Keep doing what you're doing. It's been lovely to talk to you.
Speaker 2:Thank you very much, ben, it's been an absolute delight.
Speaker 1:Thank you for listening to this week's episode of the Sober Boozers Club podcast. My name is Ben Gibbs and today I was joined by Michael Sargard, aka Happy Without the Hooch. Now for more information on michael, you can visit his instagram page, happy without the hooch, or you can check out his website at sobernewscouk for more information on alcohol change uk. Give them a google or check them out on their socials. Thank you very much for listening. I'll see you very, very soon, but for now, go and enjoy yourself. I don't know. Have a shower in the middle of the day, do whatever you want.