How to Run a Successful Landscape Design Company - Craig Daniels - Prolific Outdoor Living

Craig Daniels, owner of Prolific Outdoor Living, shares his journey from starting as a grass cutter to becoming a successful landscape designer and builder. He discusses the decision to expand his business from Chicago to California and the importance of having a support system in a new market. Craig explains the shift in his business model from doing both design and construction to focusing solely on design and project management. He emphasizes the value of having a detailed design plan and the benefits it brings to both clients and contractors. Craig also discusses the importance of choosing materials that complement the architectural style of the home and the client's budget. Craig Daniels shares his journey from lawn care to landscaping to hardscaping to becoming a full designer. He emphasizes the importance of finding your why and having a mentor and he advises young landscapers to focus on their mental and set goals to build towards their desired future. Craig can be contacted through Facebook or Instagram.


Instagram: @prolificdesignandmanage

Website: https://prolificdesignandmanage.com/


Chapters

00:00
Introduction and Background

02:01
Expanding to California: Taking a Leap of Faith

07:09
The Benefits of Focusing on Design and Project Management

09:35
The Importance of Detailed Design Plans

13:58
Educating Clients on the Importance of Design

21:25
Providing Value and Understanding the Client's Budget

23:25
The Importance of Good Design

26:26
The Power of Mentorship

27:32
Investing in Yourself

29:23
Leadership and Team Culture

31:10
Craig's Interests Outside of Work

34:58
Creating Unique and Personalized Designs

36:21
Overcoming Setbacks and Challenges

44:36
Finding Your Why and Setting Goals

47:45
Getting in Contact with Craig Daniels

If you are in need of marketing help for your landscape and hardscaping company, book a 1 on 1 call with me here:

https://calendly.com/landscapemaverick/discovery-call

Transcript

Enmanuel Tejada (00:00.71)
so I'll ask you about those as well. Cool. So now the recording is live and then we're going to start it off right now.

Craig Daniels (00:02.51)
Okay.

Enmanuel Tejada (00:15.526)
Welcome everyone to another episode of the Digital Toolbox Podcast. I am your host, Emmanuel Tahada. I own Landscape Maverick. We're a digital marketing agency for landscapers, hardscapers, and concrete contractors. Today we have a very, very special guest for you guys. We have one of the best in the industry. We have Craig Daniels, ladies and gentlemen. Craig, introduce yourself, man.

Craig Daniels (00:36.942)
Hey, how you doing? I'm Craig Daniels, out of Chicago. We're working a lot in California right now at the moment. So yeah, I'm good. I'm glad to be here. Glad to be on the podcast.

Enmanuel Tejada (00:49.222)
Dude, yes sir, yes sir, dude. And it's a pleasure to have you on because the work that you've been doing, man, is amazing. Because I found out about you or found you through Mike from Creekside Outdoor Living and I had him on the podcast. And I saw you guys were at the Unilock event and I was like, man, this is awesome. So tell us Craig, man, somebody who's been living under a rock, who doesn't know who you are, who doesn't know who Prolific Outdoor Living is, who are you? Who are you and who is Prolific Outdoor Living?

Craig Daniels (01:17.837)
Yeah, so my name is Craig. I am 31. My birthday is actually June 20th, so I'm about to be 32, getting old. I started the company four years ago. Like everyone else, we started cutting grass. I hired some employees because it was just getting too much. So we got into landscaping, landscaping turned into hardscapes, and now we are strictly designing and building the projects.

So we started out in Chicago and we just expanded to Silicon Valley and California. So it's a good market out here and it's going really well. So, so yeah.

Enmanuel Tejada (02:01.542)
That's awesome, man. And right away, let's talk about it because you said you started out in Chicago and now you're in California. Who does that? That's not a normal thing. Most people tend to say, I'm successful here. I'm just going to be, stay here. This is my area. But you want it to expand. And I'm a big fan. But what drove you to do that?

Craig Daniels (02:09.153)
Yeah.

Craig Daniels (02:22.936)
Yeah, so the market, it was kind of slow. It's a good market in Chicago, but it was kind of slow. And then we had my friend, T. Gringertz, out of Go Game. He encouraged me a lot to move to California. He was like, man, just take the leap. So I made the leap, expanded there. We got a lot of cool projects, a lot of cool designs going on right now. We're going to put some projects in the ground. So yeah, it was off a leap of faith.

And just knowing that I can come out here and excel and having the support of people like the Go Gang members and other contractors in California, having a real support system. Yeah, just taking that leap of faith.

Enmanuel Tejada (03:05.734)
Dude, that's awesome. And I think T -Gran is not originally from California, right? I think he moved there over time.

Craig Daniels (03:11.415)
Yeah, yeah, he's from Chicago as well. He's from northern Chicago, so it's kind of like.

Enmanuel Tejada (03:17.442)
I didn't know that. So you guys were both from Chicago and both took the leap to California.

Craig Daniels (03:25.622)
Yeah. Yeah.

Enmanuel Tejada (03:27.75)
Dude, that's awesome, man. That's incredible. And I know that California, Chicago has some areas that are not the best as far as safety and like, I mean, I like a lot of rap music, so I like a lot of Chief Keef. I know he's from, you know, Chicago area. So what area were you from when you were in Chicago?

Craig Daniels (03:37.782)
I'm from South Chicago where it is bad, but from South Chicago we moved to the South Suburb. It's pretty much the same thing. But yeah, but just to get out that environment and start excelling, not taking what's in front of us and.

Enmanuel Tejada (03:56.486)
You

Craig Daniels (04:06.486)
controlling our own paths. So that was that's really important. So yeah, but yeah, definitely from Southern Chicago and now.

Enmanuel Tejada (04:18.214)
Let's go. Let's go and and now that you're in California because you've been there for about a year You said how's the California life? I mean what's changed? Like do you have family that moved out there with you or or like how's how's the house life out there?

Craig Daniels (04:32.181)
Yeah, so I came here by myself actually. I actually came here with just a carry on suitcase, laptop, phone and some clothes. Started fresh, no nothing out here. But I did know T -Gran, I did know a couple of contractors out here. So yeah, just started fresh, started marketing, started getting some jobs going. So yeah, no family moved out here with me, came out here by myself, but it was a great move.

It was a great, it was a great move. I came out here just focused and determined to like take over the area and just come out here with the best designs and the best work and high quality everything.

Enmanuel Tejada (05:12.966)
Dude, I love it man, I love it. So dude, let's get into it, let's get into it man. So now you're at a point where you said that most of your work is design work. So how does that work per se, right? Because when you were in Chicago, you were designing, or your team was designing as well, but you guys were also building out those projects, right? So now that you're in California, you're not building as much, is that the case?

Craig Daniels (05:29.588)
Mm -hmm.

Yeah, so.

Craig Daniels (05:38.452)
Yeah, so in Chicago, what we were doing was we was designing and building. So I had a team in house. But when you have a team in house, you got to make sure you hire the right people. You got to make sure they're coming to work every day and building that team culture. At that time, I didn't really know how to do that part. So the people who I was hiring, you know, people wasn't showing up. They wasn't, you know, putting in quality work, things like that. So.

about 50 % of our jobs we did in -house, the other 50 % we subbed out things like electrical, things like pergolas, pools, things of that nature, we subbed everything out. So I just say, why don't I just sub out everything, afford jobs? So what we started doing before I left was actually doing the design work, and then we work with contractors now who can put the projects in the ground. But before all of this,

I was out building the patios, I was out putting the plants in and everything, getting dirty. So people meet me now when they say, you know, you don't want to get dirty. I'll be like, I've never ran excavators, bobcats, I don't put patios in everything. So yeah, we pretty familiar with everything.

Enmanuel Tejada (06:48.358)
Hahaha

Enmanuel Tejada (06:59.206)
Hey, that's awesome, bro. That's awesome. And is it still like, cause when I think about it, right, like most of my clients too, they make most of their money or they make all of their money from building the actual projects, right? The actual taking the design and building it out. Now, now that you're at a point where you subbed everything out, is it still profitable to do design only?

Craig Daniels (07:09.681)
Yeah, so So it's so it's so profit margins are really important to focus on So let's say you get a hundred thousand out of job. You might only profit 20 % So

It might sound like a lot of companies may say like we do one million, five million, but they probably only profiting 20 % or even 10 % of that a year. So when you're doing design work, you can push out as many designs, project management fees and things of that nature and then just fees from hiring the contractor. So.

Enmanuel Tejada (07:49.702)
Mmm.

Craig Daniels (08:06.192)
Sometimes they add up sometimes it doesn't but I'm not limited to how many jobs I could take on a year or designs I could take on a year. So I would say it's more profitable but some people do like running a team and things of that nature but I rather design and sub out do it that way. So yeah, but I would say it's probably 50 -50 within like making more money having the team or just designing the sub and out.

Sometimes you make the money, sometimes you don't. But it's the same with if you have like an in -house team. Sometimes you'll make profit on the job, sometimes you won't. So yeah.

Enmanuel Tejada (08:45.062)
Gotcha. So, so you, you said that the average, I guess the typical profit margins for design work only is about 10 to 20%. So if somebody, let's say somebody made a million dollars, they're profiting a hundred thousand.

Craig Daniels (08:57.839)
I know, no, no, it depends. So we have employees. So if we make a million dollars, we might profit about 700 ,000.

Enmanuel Tejada (09:08.582)
Holy shit.

Craig Daniels (09:09.487)
But if I make a million in construction, I might only profit $200K for that year. You know what I'm saying?

Enmanuel Tejada (09:20.006)
LOL

That just blew my mind. Holy shit. So, but who's paying for like how much does the average like high ticket design rich guy in California, how much would they pay for a design?

Craig Daniels (09:35.854)
So they appear around high ticket, rich guys, nice house, they went to four works. I would say anyway from, I'd say anywhere from 13 to 17 ,000 for design and plans. Yeah.

Enmanuel Tejada (09:48.038)
Where design? Holy shit. And what's a lower ticket? This guy's not working at Tesla. This guy's working, he might be making a million dollars a year perhaps, but like lower ticket, how would that range for?

Craig Daniels (10:04.046)
So our minimum price for a design is $5 ,000.

Enmanuel Tejada (10:08.998)
5 ,000 and what does that entail?

Craig Daniels (10:11.309)
That might be a front yard, a simple plant design, maybe a backyard plant design included with the 3D renders. So it'll come with the renders and the plants. So that's what that would entail. So it'll come with the landscape plan. It'll tell you what plants, where they go, what gallon, dimensions. It'll come with the lighting plan and things of that nature. But usually for like $5 ,000, you'll get like a...

a landscape plan and dimensions. You get all the plans, but it would be a landscape design, just strictly plans.

Enmanuel Tejada (10:48.262)
So it's what they would take to a contractor in their area to get built or you would connect them with a sub

Craig Daniels (10:54.157)
Yeah, so we have a concierge service where we connect them with the right with the right contractors and they'll pay us to.

Enmanuel Tejada (11:04.902)
And do you profit off that? Like as far as do you get paid maybe like a little kickback for connecting them with a contractor?

Craig Daniels (11:10.7)
Yeah, so it's all percentages. So it could be anywhere from like 3 to 50 % to just the project manager and then on top of the design fee.

Enmanuel Tejada (11:24.326)
Well, they would pay for the design and then the percentage comes from the subcontractor to give you the percentage?

Craig Daniels (11:30.059)
No, so they'll pay for the design and then they'll pay for us to project manage it. So we built this communication and we built this bond and we're bringing in trusted contractors so you don't have to do that footwork. And then we're watching over. But they don't sign the construction contract with us. They sign the construction contract with the company we bring in. So we just making sure we're just basically the mere point of communication. Because if you spend, if you're spending $750 ,000 on the backyard,

It's a lot that go into finding the right contractors, but if we have a team of contractors who's used to these types of jobs, that's something that you'll want to pay for because that'll save you a lot of mistakes, a lot of time, and things that I mentioned.

Enmanuel Tejada (12:15.398)
Dude, yeah, I can imagine. And in fact, that makes a lot of sense actually. Yeah, you're right. Like imagine spending 750K. What's that extra couple thousand going to do? Right. You might as well pay that and be secure that you're working with somebody that's going to handle all the headaches, all the bullshit that comes up. That's actually a good investment. So yeah. So, and that leads me to my next question, Craig. So in your world,

Craig Daniels (12:32.042)
Yeah.

Enmanuel Tejada (12:41.254)
as far as being mostly or running mostly a landscape design company. How do clients find you? Are they still looking up landscaper near me, backyard, outdoor living company near me? Is that how they're finding you? And instead of you doing their development or the build, you're just creating the design?

Craig Daniels (12:51.273)
Yeah, so it's mostly right now as most is mostly word -of -mouth But a lot of people do family on like Google or Instagram and Yelp I just searching like designer landscape designer some people Don't expect to find a designer and they're just searching for the contractors and they come across us

And we just explained to them the value of having a design for a project and that's how we sealed the deal for that one.

Enmanuel Tejada (13:27.526)
So somebody might be looking for a contractor, but instead they reach you guys and you're like, hey listen, we don't build but we do design and here's the importance of a design and then when the design is done, we'll project manage it for you from A to Z. Make sure you have no headaches. Is that kind of like the flow?

Craig Daniels (13:44.744)
Yeah. Yeah.

Enmanuel Tejada (13:47.334)
Gotcha. That's cool. And do you find that often? Like do most, does the common person know that before they start building a project that they need a design?

Craig Daniels (13:58.728)
Some of them don't so they don't know because I Wouldn't say they're not educated on it, but They it's not popular right now But it's becoming more popular a lot of people just want to make designs just because they look good But you really need is you need you really need plans To make sure nothing goes wrong things are where they go. You know how much material to order?

Enmanuel Tejada (14:17.478)
Thank you.

Craig Daniels (14:25.191)
you know, for the contractor and then for the homeowner, you want to make sure that they are getting exactly what they want when you invest in that high -ticking amount of money. You want to know and you want to see what you get before you get it. So that's the importance of it. But sometimes they don't ask, sometimes they don't know that. So we explain that to them in detail.

Enmanuel Tejada (14:47.974)
Gotcha, that's cool man. And I wouldn't have expected that yet because you know, it's most typical people, they want the backyard, they want to spend time out there, but they may not necessarily do a ton of research, right? They rely on somebody like yourself as an expert to kind of guide them through it, hold their hand through it. Because in life, we're not all experts in everything, right? I mean, we may look at a doctor, me and you might look at a doctor and say, damn, that guy's the smartest guy in the world. But in reality, he's smart in that area.

Craig Daniels (15:00.87)
Yeah.

Craig Daniels (15:06.63)
Mm -hmm.

Craig Daniels (15:15.302)
Yeah.

Enmanuel Tejada (15:17.062)
But when it comes to maybe technology, he may not be the smartest guy. Or when it comes to landscaping, he may not be the smartest guy. I think that's a cool thing about life in general.

Craig Daniels (15:25.254)
Yeah, and so they might find a contractor who or some people don't know what they want so you have to find a designer to Basically like get what you like to do your hobbies your interests You know what you like so we can design a backyard But some people might find a contractor who's only good at building and he'll just go back and throw Just random stuff everywhere because he's not a designer so it kind of out of touch and then he probably don't offer designs so

Enmanuel Tejada (15:32.294)
Mmm.

Craig Daniels (15:54.597)
When a customer do finally get it and they spent this money, they might not even like what they got. So, why is it important to have a design and work with a design for that?

Enmanuel Tejada (16:07.238)
That's very, very true. That's very true. And now like, let's clear it up too. When we say design, that includes everything from a 3D design where they can visually see what it would look like, but it also includes the blueprints that you would hand off to a contractor, right? With exact numbers, exact details.

Craig Daniels (16:25.092)
Right so You get enough information to hand any contractor These plans and they'll tell they'll know exactly what material to order they'll know where to order it from if they want They know how much to order And it's like nothing can go wrong because we don't spend so much time Getting it down pat to what we want where we wanted so

when it comes down to building, we don't want anything to change. So those are detailed, those plans are. So you get measurements, elevations, you get materials and how much of it and things like that. So it's super detailed. So even if a client was price shopping, they could just make copies and hand them out and just get bids back. The contractors may not even have to see the project or the property because it's just so detailed.

Enmanuel Tejada (17:22.502)
That's awesome. So you guys even helped the contractor too because now they don't have to do as much groundwork because you guys already did it for them.

Craig Daniels (17:31.235)
Yeah, exactly.

Enmanuel Tejada (17:33.062)
That's awesome, man. And that leads me to my next question too, because you're obviously a leader in the space. Like you're one of the top designers right now out there, you and your team. What's your relationship like? Cause you mentioned that the design includes materials and what type of material, where to get them from. So what's your relationship like with, you know, things like techoblock or you and a lock or all these other vendors.

Craig Daniels (17:51.266)
Mm -hmm.

Craig Daniels (17:59.234)
Okay.

Enmanuel Tejada (18:00.742)
Do you choose what would work best per property or is it like, how does that work? How do you know what material they need and where they should source it? How do you determine that?

Craig Daniels (18:06.85)
So, So our relationships with the manufacturers are really good, especially Unilock We just I just started working with techoblocks as I moved to California only because you know, like is an hour But I'm trying to get some Unilock ship down here for some projects. You know, but So based on like the architectural style of the home and the colors and things of that nature I

Enmanuel Tejada (18:27.43)
Hmm.

Craig Daniels (18:36.449)
we'll come in and we'll say, okay, this goes good with this. If it's like a historic home, then we want to use historic but modern materials. So some materials we can't use for that because it won't look right. Sometimes we will use, we will source like the original brick from the house so we can add that to the space just so it can look like it was built with the house. But depending on the house, that's how I always determine what materials to put on it.

Enmanuel Tejada (19:05.378)
wow, so it's not like, okay, let me choose the vendor that's gonna give me the best price or the one that's gonna give me the best bang for the buck. It's like what actually serves the client most, what's gonna look more like their home already, what's gonna give them the best result in the end.

Craig Daniels (19:18.016)
Yeah. Yeah. And if a client does something maybe costs too much, then that's when we start taking things out of the design. So we'll never go put like some cheap material just to get that look. Because it's kind of like it's like high end luxury backyards. So we don't try to use like the most expensive material, but we try to use the ones with the most quality. So sometimes that might be the cheaper product. But yeah.

So that's the best amount, yeah.

Enmanuel Tejada (19:51.014)
That's awesome, man. And so this whole time throughout this whole process, you kind of like have in mind what the client wants to spend on the project. And then you choose materials according to that.

Craig Daniels (20:00.479)
Yeah, so we'll get their budget upfront when they pay for their design and then that lets us know like where we got to stay around. So sometimes we come back on budget. Sometimes we come back over budget. Sometimes we come under budget depending on the space and what the budget was.

Enmanuel Tejada (20:18.598)
Gotcha. And in that same scenario then, let's say that it's a small backyard, relatively small, but the details are very intricate. You need a specific fire pit. You need a specific pergola. Do you charge based off the size of the property or the size of the project?

Craig Daniels (20:40.351)
So it's just I charge off the detail that's gonna go into it and So we charge off the detail and we charge off like how big the property is as well so like especially if there's stuff like elevations or if the house because in California's They like just notorious for the houses the backyard is being on steep slopes so like that And just what how long like an estimated time like how long the project could take?

Enmanuel Tejada (21:01.99)
Mm -hmm.

Enmanuel Tejada (21:11.526)
So for example, like let's say that there's a small backyard that project is going to be.

$60 ,000 which is small compared to what you've done. But it needs a lot of detail. You would still charge $15 ,000 for it even though they're only gonna spend like $60 ,000 to build it. Is that possible?

Craig Daniels (21:25.406)
So if it's something like 60 ,000, then we might be in like the 10 to like 7, like $7 ,500 range.

Enmanuel Tejada (21:40.678)
Got it.

Craig Daniels (21:41.437)
Yeah, and it's not the design you're selling, it's the value that come with the design. So it's like not making the mistakes of building the backyard without the plan and maybe two years from now ripping it out. It's having a trusted contractor build the relationship, just professionally putting everything where it should go. It's like having flow, making sure it matches the family, making sure they can use the space for gatherings or.

whatever they choose. Yeah, it's just the value you get from the design. So it's kind of like when you go to a dealership and your budget might be 10K for a car, but the car you always wanted was 20 ,000. So, and you like this car a lot more. So you're going to go with that $20 ,000 car, even though it was maybe out of the budget, but you see the value in it. So people will pay whatever for value, but if they don't see value in it, then...

They might say, okay, that's too much or, and things like that, but that 20K car is really too much, but you're not seeing it because you know the value in it. So yeah, that's pretty much how we operate.

Enmanuel Tejada (22:51.846)
I see exactly what you mean. I know exactly what you mean. And what about this? We know that from the construction phase if Somebody goes with even if they have the world's best designer they go off a cheap Contractor to build it out and they use cheap materials and they don't know what they're doing and they don't take preventative measures The whole thing would be messed up, right? So is it possible to have an amazing contractor that has?

Craig Daniels (23:13.339)
Yeah.

Enmanuel Tejada (23:20.07)
a bunch of experience and they do amazing work but they have a bad design. Is that possible at all? To have a bad design that hurts the contractor or the contractor is not able to do the work properly?

Craig Daniels (23:25.563)
Yeah.

Craig Daniels (23:31.77)
Yeah, so you can have a bad design. A bad design isn't like a low -quality 3D render. A bad design is something that doesn't have flow. For instance, a kitchen would be in the back of the yard. A patio would be at the lowest point of the yard because it'll collect a lot of water. And another thing, you don't want the kitchen all the way in the back because you're walking with food back and forth. So it's tripping. It's a...

Enmanuel Tejada (23:57.67)
NNNN

Craig Daniels (24:00.634)
It's just a lot of risks. You can have something like a pergola built to where the sun still comes through it, but you want it shade. So, but all that in like one design is a bad design. It's like bad flow, bad placement, wrong material choice. It looks like it was just put there and it doesn't look like it was built with the house. Things like that would be a bad design to me. But yeah, you can have a bad design, but have like a really good contractor. And they probably...

A good contractor will spot it out, but most people will probably just deal with it anyway.

Enmanuel Tejada (24:36.294)
build it anyway. Damn bro, that's crazy. And I didn't even, I didn't even think of that actually. That's how you know that you're a specialist at this. I didn't think of like, okay, it's an outdoor kitchen. You don't want to have it too far because they're walking with the food out. You want to have a shortest distance as possible. Damn, that's, that's, I can see why you guys get paid the big bucks. Cause you guys think of the things that most everyday people wouldn't think about.

Craig Daniels (25:01.657)
Yeah, and then it's kind of like, and then just the backyard is outdoor living. So it's kind of like taking your house, like when you walk out your room, you got the bathroom right there, you got the kitchen, you got the family room right there. Everything is tight, but it's not really tight. And if you pay attention, a lot of, depending on like the price of the house, all the kitchens are the same sizes, all the living rooms are the same sizes, the bathrooms are almost the same size.

So if like you just take that and put it outside and just get rid of the walls It's pretty much the same thing So you Yeah, you can have an outdoor kitchen area the fire pit area would be maybe right next to the kitchen because it serves it's like a living room Because you know in your living room you could probably see you right into the kitchen is really close So we kind of keep the same formats, but then we spice it up with like elevations and

Enmanuel Tejada (25:38.886)
Damn, yeah, that's awesome.

Craig Daniels (25:59.447)
This might be a step down. We might separate a set of walls. We're using landscaping. So yeah, that's pretty much how we see it.

Enmanuel Tejada (26:07.494)
Man, that's awesome. That is awesome right there. And dude, let's move on, because I have so many questions for you, man. This is awesome so far. I'm really, really liking it. Let's get into mentorship, right? I know that you work with Tigran, and who else in the space have you gotten mentorship from?

Craig Daniels (26:26.902)
So T .R. and Gertz, Cruz, Lime, Preston, he got hardscape mentor, Ian McCarthy, I had so many mentors, it was crazy. So I used to spend my money on shoes and clothes and stuff like that, but you don't get no return on investment, you look cool, but you ain't got no information. So I stopped doing that and started spending all my money on mentorship. So.

Just taking classes with Ian McCarthy, joining Go Game, just getting like tips and tricks from Preston. All great guys. And Cruz Lyon too, he taught me a lot. He taught me maybe like 75 % of everything, like how to build, how to, he started me off with like how to design. So yeah, that's pretty much in that field.

Enmanuel Tejada (27:18.374)
I love it, bro. I'm the same way too. I'm really big on investing into myself because at the end of the day, that's our biggest investment, right? We're our own.

what do you call it, transparent ceiling or our own glass ceiling. So I'm a huge fan of investing into myself as well. In that same aspect, at what point do you think that a young landscaper or a young designer should start investing into mentorship? Would it be right up front before they even start or would it be after they have some money or what do you think is the best point?

Craig Daniels (27:32.757)
Yeah.

Craig Daniels (27:50.42)
So once you make the decision to want to be in this industry, I would get the mentor then. So before you even do anything, because there's so much we don't know, like we think running a business is, you know, we're getting all the money up front and.

It's so much we don't know. It's like how to run the books, making sure we're making money on the project, knowing how to pay people and employees, making sure we don't get audited by the taxes. What else? It's a lot, but I would say get it up front because coming into it, you want to come in right, and you don't want to come in and fail, then get the mentors and then start back over. Failing is good too though. It happens. So.

Yeah, but if it was me, I would have came in and got the mentors right off the bat. I kind of did because I didn't start really taking off until I got the mentors.

Enmanuel Tejada (28:50.086)
Boom, love it man. And what about when it comes to being a leader? How do you, how do you, first of all, how many people do you have on your team right now?

Craig Daniels (29:00.274)
So right now we have six designers.

Enmanuel Tejada (29:03.27)
six designers, wow. And how do you lead them? How do you build the culture to where like, okay, you're the leader, you're calling the shots, but your guys and your girls are good people that have good morals and they're gonna do good work and they're gonna stay motivated and disciplined. How do you go about that?

Craig Daniels (29:23.698)
Yeah, so you pretty much lead by example. And you got to lead by example with just by tapping into yourself, always learning, learning from people who are doing better than you. With having the right mindset, it's just like it's not competition and you want to be the best version of you, not better than anyone else. And then just taking these positive traits and then...

your team is going to follow you. So if you're a bad leader or if you're a bad, you know, you're just doing things wrong, always trying to get over, those are the type of people you're going to attract. So leaderships, it definitely starts with you. And I would say just a hundred percent work on yourself, read, meditate, just be the best version of you. And that'll trickle down to your team for them to want to be the best version of them.

in order to grow the company. Because they'll be at their best self. If they could be at their best self, then it'll reflect on the company. Because back then, I wasn't a bad, I wasn't a good leader. Because I didn't know any of this, because I didn't have a mentor. So I was just hiring my friends and just hiring random people. That people wasn't showing up. I wasn't giving it 100%. So my team reflected that. So now that I'm moving different and I know better, I'm

I got a lot of better, I got better people now.

Enmanuel Tejada (30:51.974)
Gotcha, yeah dude, and that leading by example is key man. And like you yourself, you're a fit guy, you are a good person, and therefore that kind of trick goes down to your team. What else do you do outside of design and landscaping and business? And by the way, Greg, can you come more toward the middle? Yeah, yeah, I'm good, I'm good. But yeah, what do you do when you're not landscaping, when you're outside, what do you do? What are your interests?

Craig Daniels (31:10.064)
I'll tell them in my back.

Craig Daniels (31:19.376)
So I'm always like taking walks like I literally was just on like the hammock working in the middle of the woods on the mountain So just stuff like that earth earth earth type things paddleboating running working out cooking I like to cook and and read and tune and that's about it

Enmanuel Tejada (31:40.294)
Dude, I love it man. So this guy's truly an outdoors person. It's not just for designs. He actually loves the outdoors.

Craig Daniels (31:45.007)
Yeah, and that's why I think like I can walk on the property and it just come to me because like this is just my lifestyle. So yeah, how hard to design is not like it's like breathing to me so I can come up with something like super fast.

Enmanuel Tejada (31:53.478)
Hahaha

Enmanuel Tejada (32:01.318)
Dude, that's awesome, bro. And one question for you as well, Craig. It's like a bit of a random one, but it's like, they say that the person that works at Starbucks goes home and they don't drink coffee. They don't indulge in that outside of work. In your case, in your home, do you have a nice backyard, like a super nice front yard?

Craig Daniels (32:25.326)
No, so I got like some simple landscaping but it's nothing crazy but eventually I will eventually maybe like next summer because I just moved out of song just trying to get everything But yeah, what I do. Yeah, I do plan on having like a crazy backyard

Enmanuel Tejada (32:39.366)
You

Enmanuel Tejada (32:45.702)
Damn bro, that's awesome. That's awesome. Are you gonna have something detailed to you that you like? Or are you gonna have a Teco blog, pavers on this side, and the Unilock on that side, and use it as a portfolio showcase?

Craig Daniels (32:58.957)
Yeah, probably. But I don't know which one between Tekko and Uniline. They probably watched this and they'll be like, you said you'd rather have... But whatever is going to be, it's going to be really cool and really unique. Probably like something never before seen for sure.

Enmanuel Tejada (33:16.422)
Never before seen dude, I love it. And how do you go about that by the way? Because like, like how, how do you create unique things every single time? You know, like how do you, do you guys take aspects of one project, maybe put it into this project or is it always from scratch? How does that work?

Craig Daniels (33:34.412)
Yeah, so it was always from scratch and I always, depending on a budget, I always try to think outside the box because every design is nothing that's the same. It may be the same. It might be the same fire pit and things like that, but none of them look the same. But I would say, yeah, everything is definitely made from scratch and just knowing what the customer like, what they're into. So even if we put a patio, we try to make that one patio unique. If we try to...

If we got an outdoor kitchen or a perler, we try to make them as unique as possible to fit the customer so it feels like they really got an extension of their home and they can relax in. Because we're trying to bring them, we want them outside more than they're inside. Yeah, it take a lot to come up with something that we want our clients to sleep outside. So that's our plan.

Enmanuel Tejada (34:28.87)
That's true though, that's true they eat outside do they actually sleep outside like on like on a hammock or something?

Craig Daniels (34:37.611)
No, I haven't had nobody told me they slip outside yet, but They yeah, they spend a lot of time out there though for sure

Enmanuel Tejada (34:41.701)
Hahaha!

Enmanuel Tejada (34:45.894)
Boom, love it man, love it. What about haters and struggles? What are some struggles that you have faced? What are some setbacks you've experienced, some haters that you've encountered? What's that been like for you?

Craig Daniels (34:58.923)
So, I would say some setbacks. I had a lot of setbacks, a ton of setbacks. But overall, I always kept pushing, kept moving forward because my reasoning for being in the industry is really strong. And it's not to be the best designer, but it's for what's after that, like family -wise and longevity -wise for the brand, things of that nature. So that always kept me going.

but like haters and just people who, you know, talk down on you or I now I ignore them. Why try to ignore them? Like, I don't want, I don't know why people hate my motivators because they don't motivate me to do nothing. But I don't, I don't like them. But, but yeah, sometimes it could be people close to you, somebody you thought was your friend or that you thought was a mentor, you know, and they'll be talking down on you. I done been through stuff like that.

Enmanuel Tejada (35:34.95)
Mm -hmm.

Craig Daniels (35:51.785)
But I never let it faze me, you know, I always kept going so whenever I would say that anybody encounters that Because you know, it's the industry and like any industry You know is it's coats not coats, but you know circles of friends You know, it's people who you think is for you, but they really not I would say don't let it deter you and so I always keep going because once you start Being on your destiny to be great. I

Then stuff like that is going to come for sure. So it's on the way if you have the counter. Yeah, it's coming

Enmanuel Tejada (36:29.894)
100 % man. And can you go a little bit deeper into that some of those setbacks that you have experienced? Like what are some setbacks as a designer, as a business owner that you've experienced?

Craig Daniels (36:42.44)
I would say so just hiring the wrong people being on a $400 ,000 job site by myself, digging and things like that. Yeah, it was crazy. What else? Not knowing how to manage money when I first started going early on, not knowing how to price jobs out correctly and things of that nature. But they never put me out of business or nothing crazy like that. But...

Enmanuel Tejada (36:51.974)
Whoa.

Craig Daniels (37:09.767)
where you don't get the mentors and you don't get the knowledge and you're just taking on more work and you see everybody posting these huge backyards and you probably think a lot, yeah, I want to get into that. But those are actually the ones that you make the less profit on, those super big jobs. And then what else? And then, yeah, that's about it. There's some other stuff we'll probably have to save for another interview, but that's definitely some early on struggles and setbacks.

Enmanuel Tejada (37:37.67)
Holy crap man, what was that like by the way as far as being alone on that job site, 400k, what was the problem with that?

Craig Daniels (37:44.795)
So just employees not showing up, subs not showing up, not knowing how to find the right subs, just hiring somebody because they do that type of work. But yeah, you can't let it get to you, you can't stress because you're the head in charge, so you got to keep it moving. So you got to figure it out because you're the owner of the company, you can't blame nobody but yourself and you got to take full accountability and get the job done.

Enmanuel Tejada (38:12.582)
saying there's no yeah you can't point the finger is you just point the finger right back at yourself as a business owner so what was that like like you you were at a client site you had a blueprint a contractor was supposed to come the clients expecting for them to come but they don't show up it's just you

Craig Daniels (38:25.957)
Yeah, yeah, and that's when I was in the field too. So yeah, it was just me just out there in this huge backyard out there with the excavator running out making my second excavator, but it just looks unprofessional and it just gives you a bad rep too because they'll be like, why? Because they watching out the window. So they like, why is he out there by himself and things like that. But.

Enmanuel Tejada (38:35.142)
Ha ha ha!

Enmanuel Tejada (38:51.878)
Man, did you feel like the world was kind of crumbling around you at that point or like were you just like rolling like fuck it it is what it is let me just get it done.

Craig Daniels (38:58.661)
Yeah, me, I'm the type of person that I don't let nothing really get to me, so I'm always rolling with the punches trying to figure it out. So, you know, I have more people there the next day and yeah, just keep moving. I just kept moving. That's all I could do.

Enmanuel Tejada (39:14.97)
you could do man. Yes, sir. And what about your timeframe, Craig? How long did it take for you to go from lawn care to enhancements like mulch, maybe trees, then you started taking on some small patios, outdoor kitchens, and then now to the point where you're a full designer and you delegate everything else, how long has it taken you to go from each step?

Craig Daniels (39:32.9)
Mm.

Craig Daniels (39:40.26)
Yeah, so for me, my work ethic is just, it's crazy. So I'm working like all the time, all the time. So when I first started cutting grass, I was cutting grass for maybe like six months. That was 2019, yeah, 2019 to 2020, I was cutting grass and I started like January of 2019, right when the pandemic started, I want to say.

Enmanuel Tejada (40:08.294)
Mm -hmm.

Craig Daniels (40:08.836)
2020 and then from 2020 to 2021 I was doing just all landscaping. So I got rid of my line accounts and then I went into full landscaping because some days it'll rain when I'm supposed to cut the grass and then the next day I got landscaping set up but I got to cancel my landscaping because I got to go back and cut the grass because I missed the day. I just said it's just too much so I just did landscaping all together and that was 2021. So.

2021, 2022, that's when the people who I hired to do the landscaping with me, they told me like, you know, we don't like doing landscaping. We don't like landside. We like building patios and we like doing hardscape. So I started selling hardscape jobs. So I went out past the flyers. I deleted all the landscaping pictures as hardscape. So hardscape jobs start coming in. So I would say 2022 to 2020.

three, that's when we were strictly hardscape. And at the end of 20, like the mid, mid 2022, it was basically, I had a big job that I needed a designer. Well, this designer, he actually found me and what he does is he designs the project and then he found a builder. So he, he liked our patios and he wanted me to build the patios for him. So.

He found me and he was like, you know how long he thought I'd been in business for like seven years, eight years, but that was my first time on patio. So he was surprised at that. And he just was like, yeah, I'm going to show you how to design. So he showed me how to design. So for my next project, I designed it first and then I built it. And that's when the design bill came. So that was 2022 to 2023. So 2023 to 2024, we just been strictly designing and subbing out. So all together,

Enmanuel Tejada (42:05.606)
Wow.

Craig Daniels (42:06.66)
So all together, this is my fourth year this year.

Enmanuel Tejada (42:10.278)
So in four years you went from lawn care to landscaping to hardscape into design. Wow, man. Wow. And what made you get into lawn care to begin with back in 2019?

Craig Daniels (42:11.332)
Yeah.

Craig Daniels (42:17.06)
Yeah, so it's like every year I just.

Craig Daniels (42:27.524)
So I actually had a child on the way and I was working overnights. So I was working overnights at a warehouse and I was doing landscaping. I was like cutting grass in the daytime. So I would go to work like really tired and then my girlfriend of then was pregnant. So I was like, man, I gotta just, I can't be there for my family if I'm at work and doing that in the morning, cause I'll be tired and I gotta.

and stuff like that. So I just, I just quit. So I walked out and I just took on landscaping, well lawn mowing for a time. And yeah, so it was, it was profitable. It was, it was probably the best choice I ever made.

Enmanuel Tejada (42:57.734)
Yeah.

Craig Daniels (43:11.108)
yeah, but...

Enmanuel Tejada (43:11.718)
Damn bro. So you went into it out of necessity. It was like damn bro, like back is now against the wall, got the baby coming. You can't be fucking around. You gotta figure it out. Man.

Craig Daniels (43:21.188)
Yeah, and I was making for a job. I was making like 25 hours. So it wasn't bad. I could have fed the family off of that, but I was like, I'm not good with like working jobs anyway. So I was just like, I just take on the landscape before I tell you. I just know I'm great. I just know I'm supposed to be great. And I can like, I always like got promotions and got higher raises.

Enmanuel Tejada (43:35.494)
How come?

Craig Daniels (43:47.684)
I was always like the land leader and the shift lead and stuff like that, but it just wasn't what I wanted to do. It was too easy.

Enmanuel Tejada (43:55.206)
I feel you. So it was like you you felt like you were kind of wasting your potential by just capping yourself at $25 an hour.

Craig Daniels (44:01.412)
Yeah. Yeah.

Enmanuel Tejada (44:04.038)
Holy shit, man, that's awesome. So you came into landscaping out of necessity and stayed in it out of convenience and now you're living in California, living the life. Man, that is awesome. And you know what, Craig, getting back into it real quick, like what advice would you give to yourself or to that young landscaper or lawn care guy that wants to look, you know, he's looking up at a guy like you.

Craig Daniels (44:12.772)
Yeah.

Craig Daniels (44:32.868)
Hmm.

Enmanuel Tejada (44:33.83)
What advice would you give to somebody like that to speed up the process of becoming where you are today, where you're just successful, you've got designs coming in, you've got projects 24 -7, how can they speed that up?

Craig Daniels (44:36.292)
Yeah, I would tell them on like I used to always ask the same question like, you know, how can I used to ask the me and they was like, how do I get rich? How do I make my money? And it will always tell me like, you know, it's all about your mental and they will tell me like stuff like that. And I was like, no, I want to hear that. I want to look back.

Enmanuel Tejada (44:56.806)
Ha ha ha.

Craig Daniels (45:06.788)
But it's really like, that's really the hamster like knowing why you want business and it's not about the money. Once you shoot for the money, that's when you'll kind of get lost. So I started making real well money when I started wanting to help people. So I stopped chasing the dollar and I started chasing and helping these people, you know, bring their families together and creating a space where they can just spend time, make memories and things of that nature. So.

So that's my why. So I would tell them to find a why, find a mentor. Those are probably the two most important things. And don't say.

Enmanuel Tejada (45:46.63)
And you said your why is creating those spaces for people to come to families to come together.

Craig Daniels (45:52.74)
Yeah, create memories, because I come from a nice family, but we wasn't really a family that, you know, showed emotion and told them I love you and created memories like that. So I want to bring that together for other families so, you know, they can create memories. They can have birthday parties and invite the whole family to this nice backyard. You know, you're taking pictures and videos and the clients are sending me pictures and videos of, you know, the family out and just having events and stuff like that. So, so, yeah.

I would tell them finally, why you want to be in business.

Enmanuel Tejada (46:26.022)
Beautiful man, so it's not just about a dollar, it's about a member.

Craig Daniels (46:29.22)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Enmanuel Tejada (46:30.79)
Wow, that's awesome. And when did you figure that out for yourself?

Craig Daniels (46:34.404)
I figured that out when I was working harder than money I had. So I'm working hard, hard, hard, but I'm still late on the bills. I'm still barely any money in the bank account. So I just had to say, what am I doing wrong? And I was always chasing the dollar. So I was always hopping to the next thing, the next popular thing. But then when I finally sat down and got my Y, got my...

You know what I want to do. What does that look like in five years? Set some goals and built towards those goals instead of growing, trying to grow without no path or no plan. That's when everything started coming. It's kind of like having a wanting to get your backyard done without a plan like it probably chaos by the end, but when you set your. Yeah, we set our goals and write them down to get the way you want to go. Then it would be a lot smoother.

Enmanuel Tejada (47:32.23)
Dude, I love it, man, I love it. And Craig, so how can the audience get in contact with you, whether it's somebody that lives in California that needs a design, or whether it's a young landscaper that might need some advice, what's the best way to get in contact with you and your company?

Craig Daniels (47:45.188)
Yeah, so you can find me on Facebook at Craig Daniels or Instagram at prolific outdoor living or prolific design and manage I'm on Instagram and those the best ways

Enmanuel Tejada (48:01.478)
Thank you so much for coming on to the podcast man. You were an incredible guest and you have an amazing story bro so keep grinding bro. I'm a big fan. Awesome man, take care.

Craig Daniels (48:09.88)
yeah, thank you so much.