From Accidental Landscaper to Successful Entrepreneur - Daniel Haynes - Magnolia Landscape Construction

In this episode, Emmanuel Tajada interviews Daniel Haynes, owner of Magnolia Landscape Construction. Daniel shares his journey of how he accidentally got into landscaping and eventually started his own business. He discusses the challenges he faced and the steps he took to grow his company. Daniel emphasizes the importance of knowing your numbers and charging the right amount for your services. He also highlights the value of finding mentors and seeking coaching to improve your business. Overall, this episode provides valuable insights and advice for landscapers looking to start or grow their own businesses.


Magnolia Website: https://www.magnolialandscapeconstruction.com/

Magnolia Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/magnolialandscapeconstruction/

Takeaways

• Accidental entry into landscaping can lead to a successful career and business
• Transitioning from employee to entrepreneur requires taking calculated risks
• Passion for residential landscapes and building customer relationships can drive business success
• Knowing your numbers and charging the right amount for your services is crucial for profitability
• Finding mentors and seeking coaching can provide valuable guidance and support for business growth

Sound Bites

• "If you're not making money with one crew, you're not making money with two"
• "The point of business is to play the game another day"
• "You gotta figure out what to charge, you know what I mean?"

Chapters

00:00
Introduction and Background

02:13
Transitioning from Employee to Entrepreneur

03:18
Passion for Residential Landscapes

09:27
The Importance of Knowing Your Numbers

14:20
Finding Leads and Growing the Business

18:06
Training and Managing Crews

20:14
The Role of Daniel's Wife in the Business

21:20
Working with Designers and Custom Projects

25:36
Advice for Landscapers Starting or Growing Their Business

32:03
The Importance of Coaching and Mentorship

35:37
Closing Remarks and Contact Information


Keywords

landscaping, entrepreneurship, business growth, knowing your numbers, mentorship, coaching

If you are in need of marketing help for your landscape and hardscaping company, book a 1 on 1 call with me here:

https://calendly.com/landscapemaverick/discovery-call

Transcript

Enmanuel (00:03.974)
Hey everyone. Welcome back to another episode of the digital toolbox podcast. I am your host, Enmanuel Tajada. I'm the owner of Landscape Maverick, we're a digital marketing agency and we help landscapers and hardscapers. And we also run this epic podcast. Today we got a special guest for you guys. We have Dan. We have Daniel from Magnolia Landscape Construction over at Tennessee. Dan, introduce yourself, man.

Daniel Haynes (00:32.686)
Hey, I'm Daniel Haynes with Magnolia Landscape Construction from Knoxville, Tennessee.

Enmanuel (00:38.822)
Let's go Tennessee in the house. You're actually the first guest Dan that we have from Tennessee. So that's pretty cool. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. And Dan, tell us, man, I mean, how did you get, and for anybody that doesn't know Dan owns a pretty awesome landscaping company. So Dan, how did you get into landscaping in the first place?

Daniel Haynes (00:43.502)
Nice, nice. There's some good ones, so that's cool.

Daniel Haynes (00:59.438)
I got into it by accident, actually. I was working another job at a mentally ill group home and they wanted to change my schedule to a night shift. I didn't want that, so I started looking around for work and my brother -in -law's friend owned a local landscape company in town here, so I called him. He matched my pay and I jumped over. That was 15, 14 years ago now.

That's how I got into it. And then once I got here, just kind of liked it.

Enmanuel (01:33.062)
And so what were you doing at first? Did you start off with lawn care, just mowing lawns, or did you go right into hardsaving?

Daniel Haynes (01:37.486)
I was a labor guy basically, labor guy on a hardscape crew. So did that for a little while, labor guy on a maintenance crew with the first company I worked at in town. I kind of got a little bit of everything and then ended running their hardscape crews. So ended up as a foreman year two, I think with him maybe year three. So ended up being a hardscape foreman there, kind of moved on to a different company. It was there six years, hardscape foreman there for three and then.

was a project manager for three before I started Magnolia about six years ago.

Enmanuel (02:13.414)
Man, that's epic. So you had a bunch of experience as far as from the managerial standpoint, from the in the field standpoint. So you kind of leveled up every single step of the way. That's awesome. That's epic. And so what made you, what made you made the jump then from, from employee to entrepreneur owning your own business, taking on the risk?

Daniel Haynes (02:24.686)
Yeah, for sure.

Daniel Haynes (02:35.499)
Well, for one, I didn't really realize the risk it was at first. So knowing that now maybe I would still done it, but maybe a little different plan. So the company I was at was kind of going real heavy commercial landscape, which is I'm not very passionate about. I love residential landscapes, the relationships you build with customers. Usually the margins can be a little bit better on those types of projects too, just because

Enmanuel (02:40.678)
Hahaha

Enmanuel (02:47.27)
Okay.

Daniel Haynes (03:05.611)
It's not rush, it's not bottom dollar. A lot of the commercial stuff around here is just kind of bottom dollar. So I ended up starting my own to kind of work into the residential market here in town.

Enmanuel (03:18.79)
so you're saying the company that you were with was mostly focusing on the commercial side?

Daniel Haynes (03:23.786)
Correct. They were transitioning to commercial. They did, we did a lot of residential and then they were kind of shifting and doing a ton of commercial, which I really wasn't a big fan of. Just like I said, personal preference more than anything else.

Enmanuel (03:38.598)
Wow, that's awesome. And so why didn't you just go to another landscaping company and work there? Why did you start your own?

Daniel Haynes (03:46.378)
I figured if I was ever gonna try it was Tom. You know, I had, I kinda always wanted to. Obviously had done some side projects here and there. I'm like, man, I can make pretty good money at this.

So I'd been curious if I could do it. To be honest, that was the big thing. My grandfather had his own company. Dad's got his own company in a different industry. But I felt like maybe it was just time. It was now or never if I was gonna try.

Enmanuel (04:21.99)
freaking love it man that is an epic story right there and then what was your story of like getting your first client your first customer how was that

Daniel Haynes (04:29.672)
First customer was a friend of the family, so priced a little patio underneath their porch, rented a ditch witch, and away I went. That was my first project. After that, I had sold one of the vendors. I had some relationships from my time in the industry. So those relationships kind of paid off later on. Started building some local designers I knew that kind of gave me some work.

things like that and we just kind of snowballed from there and really haven't looked back since then.

Enmanuel (05:05.606)
epic, the beginnings of Magnolia and what it is now. And so where are you guys now, Dan? I mean, you guys are pretty huge. I mean, what are some of the details? Like, how many people work for you guys? How many projects are you guys taking on?

Daniel Haynes (05:18.727)
Yeah, funny, funny story. We, my wife's car was the, what we were going to use when we first started broke down. So, we borrowed my mother -in -law's minivan. So she would, I've got a picture of the tools in the back of the minivan. She would take me over to the house first thing in the morning, drop me off and, I would work all day. She would come pick me up in the afternoon. So we came from that. Now we get about, there's 14 of us total 14, 15. We got some summer help that's going to fall off.

Enmanuel (05:42.15)
Okay.

Daniel Haynes (05:48.678)
So right now we've got 15 total team members running three, three man crews. Usually two hardscape projects at a time. And then we've got a smaller crew that just kind of does landscape stuff, some plantings and things like that. They can also handle, like right now they're doing a small hardscape job, flagstone. So they'll do some smaller projects and things like that. But right now we're three crews with a project manager and just hired kind of a sales slash customer.

customer care. So he'll kind of once a customer's hours, that'll be kind of his responsibility all the way through. So, and then.

Enmanuel (06:25.702)
That's interesting that role also upsell things like if somebody just got a You know some landscaping work done. Do they also upsell hardscapes and different patios?

Daniel Haynes (06:34.597)
That's the plan with him is basically like, so a customer calls into the office, he's trained to sell. So he'll sell, but also manage that customer. That way the customer is not sold and then left alone. So he's gonna take that customer and then essentially from the time that customer calls in and wants to work with us, he's their baby. Afterwards, the warranty, the whole time, he's built that relationship.

checks on their warranty, follows up with them after the project is finished, trains them, new irrigation system, hardscapes, the maintenance, what all that looks like. That'll assist, because we do some bigger projects right now, but his role will essentially be to just kind of, like I said, customer care, kind of the whole way through.

Enmanuel (07:24.262)
That's pretty cool. That's pretty cool. I've actually not heard too many people that have that type of role, which is awesome. And so you mentioned that you guys have three, three man crews. So that's nine people that are in the field and it's 15 of you guys total. So one of those guys is customer care. What are the other four?

Daniel Haynes (07:42.724)
My bad, we have one crew that runs four guys. We basically keep an extra, yeah, my bad, that's my bad. We actually keep an extra guy just because somebody misses pretty frequently. So, which is family stuff. We're very fortunate. We've got really good guys. So usually it's family stuff when they miss. It's not like the norms. So, very fortunate team. So yeah, you've got those 10 guys are in the field. We've got the summer, we got a summer guy who's got, I think, two weeks left.

Enmanuel (07:46.918)
what a crew that was for, okay. No, no, god, god.

Enmanuel (07:55.398)
Thank you.

Daniel Haynes (08:11.684)
He's kind of a floaters picking stuff up for us and doing things like that. He's been doing that. And then you've got the project manager, the sales guy slash customer care, myself and my wife.

Enmanuel (08:27.91)
Wow, man, that's awesome. And so how do you run this empire? How do you communicate a message down? Is it through a meeting? Is it through an in -person meeting, a Zoom meeting? How do you handle that?

Daniel Haynes (08:39.971)
So we've grown quick. Six years, five and a half, we've gone from me to this. So we're not real great at it yet, to be honest with you. We're in the process of implementing those systems, hired some coaching, and we're gonna start kind of diving into that, putting some systems into place, some structure, some accountability. Accountability is a big word we've talked about recently just because, like you said,

There's a lot of layers to that when you've got a customer, a project manager, a sales guy, the crew. Communication all through that is something we're trying to tighten down now. Just upgraded softwares, so that's gonna be a big part of that to kind of help that communication.

Enmanuel (09:27.661)
That's awesome and two things you mentioned coaching and then software so who are you guys looking at for coaching?

Daniel Haynes (09:33.473)
So I've been a part of the contractor fight and you have used their sales training for a while now been a part of that group for a little over two years and then I We just signed up with breakthrough Academy went through their boot camp for six weeks and Then I just signed up a little more extensive coaching with them. They're gonna help structure everything they're kind of Business systems type coaches. So we're pretty excited about that and then software

We've used LMN for a long time and we're about to jump up to Aspire landscape software and use it.

Enmanuel (10:09.862)
I haven't heard of that yet. I thought you were gonna say something like jobber or something else. What's fire about? What is that one? Is that a?

Daniel Haynes (10:14.784)
Aspire is a, it's a landscape specific software based in our industry. So it's very industry specific, got a lot of information, a lot of details, a lot of capabilities, communication, things like that, all the way through it. So pretty excited about it. We spent the last three months getting it set up. So it's finally set up, switching over to it, ready to roll.

Enmanuel (10:36.486)
That's pretty awesome.

Enmanuel (10:41.542)
Does that come set up out of the box or do you have to work with your team to put it in your environment?

Daniel Haynes (10:44.672)
It's, you work with your team, it's been about, I think I've spent maybe five to six hours a week over the past three months, just setting it up, getting all of our information in, moving jobs over, getting contacts imported, like just getting it set up the way that we want it to run. And now we're kind of starting to implement it and get it going.

Enmanuel (10:56.038)
wow.

Enmanuel (11:04.422)
And you're doing that yourself or they do that for you.

Daniel Haynes (11:07.903)
So they basically give you a project manager and then they give you a plan basically. You go through, click, step by step. They walk you through it. You meet them once a week. It was awesome, honestly, the way that they handled all that.

Enmanuel (11:25.318)
That's pretty cool. That's pretty cool. And what about, how do you guys go about billing customers? Is all that done through like your CRM tool or Element when you guys are using it?

Daniel Haynes (11:35.102)
Yeah, yep, yep, you do that, click that, and then they'll get a QuickBooks link and everything's kind of invoiced through QuickBooks. ACH links, most people pay with that. Credit card fees if they want those. But most of that is just through QuickBooks.

Enmanuel (11:51.718)
QuickBooks awesome, bro and and let me ask you because it's a common question that is often thrown around in this space too. It's like When you were a when you were a smaller contractor and you didn't have all these jobs go on at once you have less staff At what point did you decide to get some sort of software like like a CRM like element? Do you recommend that? Hey, or do you have to recommend waiting a little bit?

Daniel Haynes (12:10.014)
immediately.

We signed up for LMN at the end of the first year. Like I said, I was at a bigger company in town. They implemented a software down the road and I saw the value in it. Just in time bidding, we track our guys' hours through it. We track our spending through it on the jobs. So it's kind of an all in one thing to keep up with everything.

Enmanuel (12:41.382)
That's the beauty of it too. Plus you don't have to keep repeating things, right? I mean, I'm sure that with element all the field guys have access to it. Is that how it works?

Daniel Haynes (12:50.558)
Yeah, they clock into it. Yeah, so like it's their time clock basically. Geostamp time clocks where they clock into the jobs, hours get allocated to the job, their pay rates are allocated to the job. Like it tracks everything kind of down to the minute.

Enmanuel (12:53.222)
That's pretty cool.

Enmanuel (13:07.75)
down to the minute, that's sick. And how do you, on that same topic, how do you guys bring in leads? Because of course, business is just bringing in leads and fulfilling it with amazing guys, right? And you have an amazing team, but how do you guys actually get that work? I'm sure it's a lot of word of mouth down there too, right?

Daniel Haynes (13:25.63)
So the first five to six years has been word of mouth. We have built some good relationships with some repeat people, some contractors and landscape designers, architects, things like that. We've kind of ramped up social media lately, which is kind of where we met. And then, you know, we've revamped the website last year, spent some money on it. So it's...

Enmanuel (13:47.206)
Yeah.

Daniel Haynes (13:54.462)
Kind of all in one for us right now is kind of branding. We've looked at some ads, Google ads and things like that, but that's a very new market to me, something we haven't. Selling for two crews or one crew and a half isn't a big deal, but when you're selling for three crews, like you need some more leads, you know? So that's kind of where we're at now. Just trying to ramp that up a little bit, something we're pretty aware of.

Enmanuel (14:20.998)
That's awesome. And then that and so what happens, for example, if of course, you know, if you guys get a bunch of leads, you guys would schedule them out. But whatever happens whenever you have crews, you know, you have guys that want to work, but there's not leads. What do you do on that point? Did the guys just pivot or really? That's awesome.

Daniel Haynes (14:41.662)
We haven't had that issue yet. So that's the, no. No, we pushed the schedule out a couple of months last year. And then once it got to a point is when we jumped up to that third crew. So far we haven't had that issue. So hopefully that's not an issue. That's what we're trying to, trying to be aware of what's going on right now and notice calls are a little bit slower than they usually are. Let's do something to ramp this up here in a couple of months.

So I'm sure you know, it takes a couple of months. Like once you start something, you'll find out if it works a little bit further down the road. So just trying to stay in front of that.

Enmanuel (15:19.014)
That is true, exactly. Yeah, a lot of people make that mistake of it's like, shit, it didn't work after two days. It's not, let me stop it. You know, it's like, but you have to let it learn. You have to let it do its thing. And you don't want to change too many things at once. Cause then if you keep changing things, something works, but you already changed it, then you know, it's hard to go back. You're still in the same game. So that is true.

And when you got that new crew, then how did you go about training everybody? Because that's a big deal too, you know, you wanna make sure that people are doing quality work that fit your standards as a company. So how do you go about training? Do you do that yourself?

Daniel Haynes (15:57.688)
Martin, our project manager, is on each site multiple times a day. Fortunately, we've been able to attract some talent here. So we try to pay a little higher than average, which attracts some talent, word gets out about that. So we've got some really good guys. So they come in pretty skilled already. And then Martin is by site every day to just kind of make sure.

Nothing goes haywire.

Enmanuel (16:30.566)
Haha, let's go. Let's go. And that saves you a lot of time because I'm imagining that before he was there as a project manager, that was probably your responsibility.

Daniel Haynes (16:39.543)
Yeah, he was on one of our crews. So, you know, I've known each other about 10 years. He was one of our install foreman, basically built some big stuff for us, was managing sites, basically on his own. I didn't have to manage his sites. He was kind of handling that on his own. So he and I talked and we've ramped it up and he's managing three sites now. Originally it was two sites and then now it's three sites. So he's crushing it right now.

Enmanuel (17:07.161)
That's epic right there and how busy is he? Is he hands off as far as will he get done and dirty if needed or does he just more bounce around?

Daniel Haynes (17:15.351)
If he has to, yeah, if he has to, but I mean, he comes in in the mornings and checks the guys times from the day before, pulls in all the receipts from the trucks or vendors or anything we need and all that will get put in the software so we know where jobs are at. And then from there, you know, he'll still start his day, kind of make rounds where where he's needed, make sure materials are where they're needed. And that way the guys can just kind of be on site. They don't they don't have to run around, pick stuff up because it's a huge waste of time.

Enmanuel (17:46.342)
True, true. And a guy like that, you brought him over from the field. I mean, I wouldn't say he's more office or backend work. I'd say he's still out there. But how does a person transition into that? Did you have any issues with that at all as far as him missing the field or him which is rolling with it?

Daniel Haynes (18:06.774)
No, he was excited about the role. When he first moved over, we had some team members that were a little harder to manage, weren't as skilled as what we thought they were. But we've moved on from each other since then. And that was a big headache at first, a huge stress. And we've kind of transitioned now. And I'm pretty pumped about the team we have. So it's very different for him now. He's not.

This sounds messed up, but he's not having to babysit anybody right now. You know what I mean? He's more support for these guys than like over -lording, making sure they're doing what they're supposed to. He's just there to make sure they got what they need. Answer questions, get questions back, you know, and that sort of thing. He's not like, he's not babysitting anymore. So that's, that was super helpful. That was a big frustration at first.

Enmanuel (18:58.854)
I can imagine, yeah, I can imagine. Especially, like it does make the manager's job harder if the guys that he's managing are difficult to deal with. So that is true. And now that he doesn't have to deal with that, it makes sense that he's probably more efficient. It's less of a hassle to do that role. So that's pretty cool. And I know that your wife is also, you mentioned she's also very involved in the business. What has her role been like from the beginning and how has it evolved with you guys as you guys have grown?

Daniel Haynes (19:27.667)
She started out as unpaid help basically You know Because I would work during the day in the field and she was she was doing things with the kids and this and that so I Would call her she would run to the bank. She would do takeoffs on landscape drawings She would kind of do anything anything I needed to yeah, like pull plant lists and things like that

Enmanuel (19:33.286)
Hahaha

Enmanuel (19:41.414)
Thank you.

Daniel Haynes (19:53.619)
Then kind of as we started the transition, she's taken over basically all the admin roles. Payroll, she handles that. She handles all the bill pay, sort of all the backend type stuff. Okay, she doesn't have a ton of landscape experience, but is just happy to, you know, kind of help and be a part of this.

Enmanuel (20:14.758)
That's awesome. I mean, you mentioned she was doing landscape design work. That's pretty intense. That's pretty cool.

Daniel Haynes (20:20.819)
Yeah, well, we were doing it off designs. So we get designs sent to us a lot. So she would basically take off the material list and things like that. Yeah.

Enmanuel (20:30.758)
I see. So it wasn't actually like drawing one of these like 3D blueprints or 3D software.

Daniel Haynes (20:34.579)
Man, we outsource every bit of that. So if you want me to draw it, it looks like a cartoon. It looks like my, yeah, one of my kids, yeah, one of my kids drew it and like colored it in with a pencil. This is what it looks like. So I try to avoid drawing if I can help it design. It's not my cup of tea.

Enmanuel (20:42.534)
with stick figures moving around.

Enmanuel (20:56.614)
Let's talk a little bit more about that actually like I'm sure you guys get a call calls all the time like you guys have built such a reputation that You get calls from a high -end customer and they want something super custom super cool unique to them How do you guys handle that situation? Because of course you don't want to go at it without a design because then it's just a mess trying to do things on the fly on site

And you know that they need a design. Do you tell them that you do it and then you sub it out or do you have them reach out to a designer themselves?

Daniel Haynes (21:28.211)
It depends on the scope of the project and where they're at in the process. A lot of customers, what we'll do is meet with them upfront. And if it's something that we kind of get a feel that we're going to need a design, Carex Design Group is a local design firm that we, that they do all of our design work. So we'll call them and sometimes we'll just go to that initial meeting together. Carex will do the design, Homeowner will deal with them. Carex will charge them for the design. We'll build.

what is designed. So that's kind of worked out well so far for us.

Enmanuel (22:04.422)
That's pretty cool. That's pretty cool right there. And on average, I mean, how much would you or how much does a design cost? Because I know it's pretty time consuming to do that. And it takes a lot of skill.

Daniel Haynes (22:13.907)
It is, yeah, and it depends on like, depends on how complicated it is. You know what I mean? Is there a lot of hardscapes? Is there a lot of landscape, a lot of elevation change? But I mean, a good design, you're probably spending anywhere from, depends on what you want too. Like if you want the full 3D and then a set to build off of, I mean, you could be anywhere from $2 ,500 to $5 ,000 for a set of landscape designs.

Enmanuel (22:41.542)
And that end project would be what, like a 50k project or so? 30k project?

Daniel Haynes (22:45.075)
It could be anywhere from 50 to 500 to be honest, or more. Yeah.

Enmanuel (22:49.958)
Really? Shit. Wow.

Daniel Haynes (22:52.915)
Yeah, I mean you gotta think once you start getting retaining walls and pools and all that stuff kind of mixed in it kind of stacks up quick.

Enmanuel (23:01.35)
That's true. And I mean, well deserved too on the designers. And I've actually had a couple of guys on the podcast that are designers only, like that's literally all they do. And you see them on Instagram, they have like a hundred thousand followers. It's funny. A lot of them have more followers than the actual installers. And the reason why is because it's more of a visual.

Daniel Haynes (23:18.835)
Yeah.

Enmanuel (23:22.694)
I mean, I don't know. I don't understand that actually. I'd imagine that it's harder to install it than to design it, but it is hard to design too. So it's like, shit, which one is more difficult?

Daniel Haynes (23:33.203)
Man, I don't know. I feel like the install part, but I'm a little biased, you know? So, yeah. Yeah, you can put anything on paper, but putting it in the ground is a different animal. So.

Enmanuel (23:39.206)
This guy's biased over here.

Enmanuel (23:47.686)
It's definitely, definitely. And, and, and on the design, we're just looking at a finished product, but like actually removing things, taking things out that were there before that. Yeah. It's, it's, I can imagine, I can imagine. And what about something like, cause again, I've had designers on here and they're, would you, would you say that what you guys build on designs, do you follow it by the dot what's on there or

Daniel Haynes (24:15.603)
Yeah, yeah, for the most part. If something doesn't work, we've got a good enough relationship with the people we work with to call and just be like, hey, you know, this doesn't work here because of this and this, we can do it this way or we can do it that way. And then.

Enmanuel (24:32.87)
Yeah, like for example, if there's some sort of drain that's underground and you can't move it or you can't redirect it, at that point you can proceed.

Daniel Haynes (24:37.683)
can't move it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, my opinion on that is, is I get paid to landscape and hardscape, you know, and they get paid to design. So like, they've got a lot of education, a lot of time and design, you know, so it's like, that's their expertise. So why not lean on that and not, not just take it into my own hands as a landscaper and be like, now it doesn't look better like this, you know, so.

It's all about conversations, you know what I mean? Like it's give and take. Cause those conversations, like they'll, they understand that sometimes something needs to move, something needs to change. And as long as the end result is still really pretty, that's all that matters.

Enmanuel (25:06.502)
You

Enmanuel (25:11.685)
Yeah.

Enmanuel (25:23.686)
Yeah, man, 100%. And I love the openness to it too, you know, just have the conversation instead of letting it steam on for a long time. And yeah, I can, I can see how that can end the relationship, right? If there's no communication, try to hide something. So that's pretty cool too. And I want to, I want to get some advice from you too, Dan, for, for the landscapers that are listening that are new or that are

Daniel Haynes (25:36.083)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Enmanuel (25:48.326)
in lawn care or that are doing landscaping, what would you advise to them? Like let's say that it's a lawn care dude, he's done a couple small patios, nothing super professional, nothing super complex, but he wants you to transition into doing something like what you're doing, where you're doing complete backyard renovations, super duper cool outdoor living projects. How would you recommend them to start getting to that point?

Daniel Haynes (26:13.363)
Normally there's dudes in the industry, in the market that would be willing to help teach, help educate, help you kind of learn. So that's what I would, something I would recommend. Manufacturers as well have some education. I would learn how to do it and why you do it certain ways first. And then also what the charge, because it's easy to throw out a big number, you know, like if somebody wants this,

big patio and you say it's $15 ,000, sounds like a ton of money. But once you start realizing what this stuff costs, what it costs you to do it, how long it takes, you may finish a $15 ,000 patio and not make much money. So knowing what to charge too would be a huge, huge thing.

Enmanuel (27:05.702)
Wow, that's super true right there. Knowing the numbers. And how do you go about that? What's the best way to track them? I know there's a lot of software out there, but how do you go about it?

Daniel Haynes (27:15.187)
We use software. You know, like I told you earlier, we were part of the contractor fight. They've got a know your numbers course that I recommend to anyone who tells me they have anything to do with business. Basically, kind of breaks down your costs per guy with overhead and what to actually charge per hour to make sure that you've covered your costs. And I, as a business owner, didn't understand that until like year.

four to half and it's something I'm still working on now. So if you can find that, learn that, know what to charge, that's a big one, huge one.

Enmanuel (27:56.806)
knowing what to charge, not getting big number syndrome. What are you doing?

Daniel Haynes (28:01.395)
Yeah, because I mean, you gotta know, you know what I mean? It doesn't make sense to do all this work and then not make any money, you know? And then if you like, cause I made the mistake early on of like, cause we were doing some cool projects early on, you know? And like, there wasn't a ton of money in the bank. And I thought, you know, shit, if I could add an extra crew, what that'll do is double my, double the amount of work I can do, which will double the amount of money I can make and that.

If you're not making money with one crew, you're not making money with two. You're just doubling up your problem. So, it, yeah.

Enmanuel (28:39.174)
Holy shit, you what that's a gold nugget right there. If you're not making money with one crew, you're not gonna make any money with two crews Holy shit, how would you go about that if it's if it's you and and you have enough money to either You know put together a whole new crew, right? You know, maybe get a van Maybe get a truck trailer everything Would you do that or would you double down on that one crew until they're like kind of maxed out a little bit?

Daniel Haynes (28:42.771)
It's very true.

Daniel Haynes (29:07.827)
I think you max out that crew. You know, I've got, I've got a local mentor in town. They do, they average, you know, pretty good per guy. So it's like, that's my target right now is to creep up where he's at. You know, we're probably two thirds of the way it's where he's at per guy. So it's like, I've got a lot of efficiency that I'm missing somewhere. You know, so like the size we're at now, we'll stay at for a long time until, until we can max out our efficiencies.

you know, that's where the software comes into play is a bit of job and it's bid at a certain margin. And then if I'm not hitting that margin on every job, I've got room to improve. Whether that's the crew, whether that's me as a sales guy and a bidder, like there's room to get better at that. Cause something's missing. Even the labor is going over. There's not enough time to get the job done on my end as a bidder. I miss materials. So like until you get all that stuff nailed down,

Like I said, Dublin cruise, you just gonna double that headache. So more money will come in faster, but it'll also go out just as fast. So.

Enmanuel (30:10.022)
You

Enmanuel (30:14.79)
But I love that frame that you took there too. It's like that something is wrong and you can fix it. Like, not saying you specifically, but if something is wrong with any business, it can be fixed. It's just taking a look at the numbers. What is it? Is it the crew? Is it the numbers? Is it me? But I love that mindset that you can figure it out instead of saying, fuck, it's not working. I can't, I can't.

Daniel Haynes (30:24.772)
No, yeah.

Daniel Haynes (30:33.092)
Yeah.

Daniel Haynes (30:38.564)
Yeah, I mean, it doesn't make sense to live the same month over and over. You know what I mean? Like, you either do that and struggle or you kind of figure out what's going on, fix it and get things right, you know? And that's, we're in that process now. I mean, you know what I mean? Like, it looks cool on Instagram and all this, but it's like, we're trying to make sure that like if a project's bid for 20 days, it takes 20 days, not 25 days, you know? So.

That's something we're working through now. Is just trying to tighten all that stuff up so that it all matches.

Enmanuel (31:13.926)
100%, 100%. And do you think the coaching is gonna help with that too, or is the coaching more of a business related, managing the numbers aspect of it?

Daniel Haynes (31:22.019)
it's been both so far. Something I would recommend to anyone if they because I was the guy who couldn't afford it for a year. You know, it's not cheap. Couple hundred bucks a month. Well, no, I take that back. Six hundred, seven hundred bucks a month. I was the guy that couldn't afford it, you know, for a full year after I found the program. So I just kind of dabbled with my toe in the water, watched the free content, didn't really implement and then.

after that year jumped in and went all the way in and then after that like things have kind of taken off you know we're growing pretty significantly.

Enmanuel (32:03.814)
That's pretty cool. And it's only, and the moon is only, the sky's the limit because as you, like you mentioned, as your numbers get more consistent on every job, the timeframe gets more consistent on every job. Things are just gonna keep improving and then you'll be able to get even another crew without the headache. That's the key.

Daniel Haynes (32:04.802)
Sir.

Daniel Haynes (32:17.154)
Correct.

Daniel Haynes (32:20.866)
One of these days, one of these days, man. Calm down, slow down. Yeah. We'll figure out, we'll figure out how to run these exactly the way we want, which we're fortunate. Like I said, I feel like we're better than we've ever been. So that's, I'm pumped about where we're headed, but it's still, still gotta make some tweaks.

Enmanuel (32:39.046)
Yes, sir. Yes, sir. And then let me get your take two on this. So of course, I want to be respectful of your time. I know that you have a business to run. I want to ask you this for that landscaper that's listening, whether he's in hards keeping already or he's that guy that we just talked about that's like in between the two. What's some advice that you give to that you would give to one of them that wants to quit? Because I'm sure you've had some tough times as a business owner. They're like, fuck, this is just not working.

The numbers are not being profitable. We're doing beautiful projects. We're not profiting. They feel like quitting. What would you say to a guy like that or a girl like that?

Daniel Haynes (33:13.152)
I think you find other business owners, whether some markets are weird because they don't want people compete or whatever, but I talk to at least five other companies in town, because you're not alone. You feel alone, because I've been there. Everybody that's been in business has been there where you feel like, man, I don't know if I'm going to make it another month. I don't know if I'm going to be able to hit this or hit that. Everybody's been there.

You know, and knowing you're not alone. And then Alex Ramozzi says just the point of business is to play the game another day. So like taking that look at it and just like keep the doors open, keep going, get it out. You got to figure out, you got to figure out what the charge, you know what I mean? Like what the charge and why you're charging it. And then a lot of business owners don't know that. And it's something like I said, I didn't know until someone told me I didn't know, you know.

So you kind of dive into that. Cause like I said, I worked at some other companies in town, man. So I knew what their hourly rates were. I knew what their material markups were, but that was for their business, not for mine. So that would be, if it gets discouraging, I know, but like keep going, but then start trying to figure out why you're in that spot, what it is, you know.

Enmanuel (34:29.99)
instead of just accepting it for what it is. God.

Daniel Haynes (34:33.15)
Yeah, like a mentor. Mentor is a big thing too. If you can find a local mentor in town, like I said, I've got a mentor in town.

has been in this industry a long time, has lived a lot of those days, like you were just asking, told me about those days and then showed me where he's at now. And it's a lot of hope, you know, like, shit, I can do this, you know? So that was, that's someone, and I can call him, you know what I mean? So like, that's having somebody you can trust and someone who will listen to you talk, who's been there, tell you it'll be all right.

and then maybe even kicking the ass if you need it. That's a lot of value in that too.

Enmanuel (35:18.014)
1000%. I couldn't agree more. And I'm big into coaching myself as well. And and Dan, you know what I do want to be respectful over time here. I don't want to keep holding you but I really appreciate you being on here. If the audience does have a question for you Dan or they want to reach out, would that be okay with you if they hit you on Instagram or anything?

Daniel Haynes (35:32.541)
yeah. Yeah, anytime.

Enmanuel (35:37.382)
Cool, cool, and what's the best way for them to reach you?

Daniel Haynes (35:39.261)
Instagram's fun, email's fun. If you go to the website, you can find my email on there. Or it's just my name. It's just Daniel at the company name, magnolialinscapeconstruction .com. Anyways, fun. I mean.

Enmanuel (35:54.438)
Gotcha. And what's your Instagram tag for the company?

Daniel Haynes (35:56.956)
It's at Magnolia Landscape Construction. Let me double check that though.

Enmanuel (36:02.106)
Awesome and I'll share it too on the show notes and everything So they'll be able to reach you there anybody. I hope you guys I hope you guys enjoy this episode with Dan Amazing gentlemen doing amazing things with his company and Anybody that needs to listen to it, you know his advice It's like, you know, if you're down figure out why it is, you know But just don't quit cuz like he mentioned about Alex Ramozi The game of business is just staying alive one more day one more day and giving it another shot

Daniel Haynes (36:05.404)
Yeah.

Daniel Haynes (36:28.092)
Yeah, just keep it going. Yeah.

Enmanuel (36:30.598)
Keep going. Yes, sir. And those are going to be the wrapping words here. Definitely reach out to Dan if you guys have any questions. Reach out to me if you have any questions for me. Hope you guys enjoyed this episode. Peace.