Taking Calculated Risks and Learning from Experience - James Doyle - Innovative Lawn and landscape

In this conversation, James Doyle, owner of Innovative CT, shares his journey from being a troublemaker in high school to starting his own landscaping business. He talks about the mentors who helped him stay in school and find his path. James discusses how he started his business, focusing on excellent presentation and using social media to showcase their work. He explains their approach to lawn maintenance and their specialization in communal living and condo association maintenance. James also discusses their hardscape projects, including drainage work and land management. He shares the story of a large-scale disc golf course project they worked on. In this conversation, James Doyle discusses the challenges of a landscaping project, the process of acquiring another company, and offers advice for aspiring landscapers. He emphasizes the importance of having a strong support system, trusting your team, and investing in key players. James also shares his personal journey of self-improvement and the benefits of surrounding yourself with high-performing entrepreneurs. He encourages entrepreneurs to take care of themselves and prioritize their well-being.

Innovative CT Website: https://innovativect.com/

Innovative CT Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/innovativelawnandlandscapellc/

takeaways

• Having mentors and support can make a significant impact on a person's life and help them find their path.
• Using social media as a portfolio can help showcase your work and attract customers.
• Focusing on excellent presentation and professionalism can set a business apart.
• Specializing in a niche market, such as communal living and condo association maintenance, can lead to long-term contracts.
• Taking calculated risks and learning from experience is essential for business growth.
• Delegating tasks and trusting employees is crucial for working on the business rather than in the business.
• Hardscape projects, such as drainage work and land management, can be profitable and require specialized equipment and skills.
• Large-scale projects, like the disc golf course, can provide unique opportunities for growth and long-term relationships with clients. Having a strong support system, such as a supportive spouse, is crucial for success in entrepreneurship.
• Investing in key players who bring value to your company can lead to growth and success.
• Surrounding yourself with high-performing entrepreneurs can push you to achieve more and improve your mindset.
• Taking care of your physical and mental well-being is essential for long-term success in entrepreneurship.
• Trusting your team and empowering them to make decisions can lead to better outcomes and growth for your business.

Chapters

00:00
James Doyle's Background and Introduction

05:12
From High School Troublemaker to Business Owner

13:11
Building a Brand and Showcasing Work

15:31
Specializing in Communal Living and Condo Association Maintenance

24:35
Hardscape Projects: Drainage Work and Land Management

25:30
The Disc Golf Course Project: A Unique Opportunity for Growth

26:15
The Challenges of a Landscaping Project

27:34
The Process of Acquiring Another Company

35:14
Advice for Aspiring Landscapers


keywords

landscaping, business, mentors, high school, troublemaker, starting a business, excellent presentation, social media, lawn maintenance, communal living, condo association, hardscape projects, drainage work, land management, disc golf course, landscaping, acquisition, support system, team, self-improvement, e

If you are in need of marketing help for your landscape and hardscaping company, book a 1 on 1 call with me here:

https://calendly.com/landscapemaverick/discovery-call

Transcript

Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of the Digital Toolbox Podcast. I'm your host Enmanuel Tajada. Today we have a special guest for you guys. We've got James Doyle over at Innovative CT in Connecticut. James, introduce yourself, man. Let's get into

James Doyle (00:06.893)
Cool.

James Doyle (00:19.502)
Hey man, thanks for having me on. Yeah, so my name's James Doyle from Innovative Long Landscape up here in Northwestern Connecticut. I've been in the landscape industry for close to 15 years on my own for seven, going on eight years at end of this season. So yeah, just happy to be on and answer any questions and kind of share our story.

Enmanuel (00:41.414)
Yes sir, yes sir, I'm super excited. So James, who wore you in high school, man? That's the one question I always like to ask at first. Who was James Doyle in high school?

James Doyle (00:50.815)
Definitely not the same person. That's a tough one, man. I've been asked that before. I've been on a few podcasts and nobody's ever hit me with that. I was the troublemaker, man. Troublemaker, hanging around with the wrong crowd, got in a little bit of trouble. Nothing crazy, just doing some parties and just hanging around the wrong crowd. Just been really at my head on straight. Couldn't really focus a lot in school, so it

Enmanuel (00:59.524)
Hahaha

James Doyle (01:18.819)
It was more or less like that, like that was the trouble, the sense of the trouble making, you know, it was just, just a kind of a hard time finding my way and who were my people and you know, who I could trust kind of things of that nature. But, I just had a really hard time focusing in school. So I tried to, I tried to drop out like junior going into senior year and they, they wouldn't let me, they kind of, they just steered me at a couple of mentors, you know, some like, substitute teachers and stuff that were just like

One guy was a retired law enforcement guy. He kind of took me under his wing and he's like, listen, man, he's like, you really don't want to do that. Kind of keep going with it. You'll be happy to do it one day. a couple of individuals like that that played an instrumental role in me just kind of sticking it out and focusing and making it through. That was kind of the gist of what I had going on back then. I kind of really wasn't focused and just didn't know what I wanted to do. I knew I wanted to work,

That was just my basic thing. I just wanted to get out of school and work. 

Enmanuel (05:01.905)
Okay, cool. There we go. So we're back from technical difficulties. So let me start it over. Okay, let's get right back into it. So you mentioned that you were going to you were thinking of dropping out of school at one point of high school.

James Doyle (05:12.977)
Yeah, so like junior year going into my senior year, just kind of really couldn't stay focused, you know, trying to find my group of people and stuff like that and kind of who I could relate to. you know, did a lot of the social, like click transitioning, you know, from, you know, back in, you know, 2010 era, it was, you know, punk rock and, you know, don't know, skate parks and things like that. You know, that was kind of my scene, you know, through middle school. And then, you

transitioned into kind of just working, changed my outfit a little bit, started hanging around different kids, know, the normal things you go through in high school. And, you know, that was kind of where I just, I wanted to go to work, man. I just realized like it was, hard to get by without anything. And, you know, that was, that was really the gist of it. I just wanted to, you know, I couldn't focus in school. So was like, if I can't focus here, you know, I was so hands -on and just driven to like learn more things, but it just wasn't in the classroom, you know? And that was kind of the extent of it.

They actually offered me to go into an after school program where I'd come into a school at 2 .15 when everybody else was getting out. It was more or less for like a lot of troubled kids, but there was a group of us in there that worked, that utilized that program to be able to work during the day. You provided your pay stubs and stuff like that to get your credits, and you still had to get your academic credits as well. So I did that my last three months of junior year and then all the senior year. And I actually graduated in March of 2012.

and got my credits three months early and went to work full time after that. So it was a good little transition and I owe it to a couple of my senior principals and VPs and stuff that were there that kind of pushed me along to do it. They saw something in me and they didn't want to give up on us, a few of us kids that had the same mentality as myself. I ironically actually came in touch with

with that retired law enforcement guy that was one of my mentors in school via Facebook. And I shot him a message like two months ago and I just thanked him for, yeah, it was just cool. Like I thanked him for not giving up on me and whatever potentially saw, hey, don't quit school, keep doing this. Drove a lot of like father figure type, hey, do this man, you'll be happy type attitude into me. And it was cool to reconnect with him and let him know what we got going on and the business.

James Doyle (07:31.43)
family stuff and you he was, I think he was truly humble to kind of hear that so it was cool. Full circle.

Enmanuel (07:37.205)
That's amazing, man. That's amazing. And we always need that person, you know? We always need somebody that maybe believes in us, maybe when we didn't believe in us. At the time, I guess, what was your minds around, you know, going in with some of those troubled kids that, you know, were at the brink of, you know, dropping out and sticking with it? How did that make you feel? Like, also, where were you working at,

James Doyle (07:46.364)
Yeah,

James Doyle (08:02.012)
Yeah, so I mean, it felt like I was kind of in the wrong group, honestly, because a lot of the kids that were in there were in there for different reasons, not for the same reason that I was in there. So it was kind of like, kind of felt like I was out of place, but like during the day when I was working, was, you know, it was cool. I worked at a couple of local landscape companies and construction companies, just trying to get experience. You know, I bopped around a lot, you know, just trying to get a feel for, you know, I worked for some really good guys, learned a lot of good things. I worked for

really not so good outfits and learn the wrong ways to do things and organization and how to treat customers and the, it's good enough mentality, try to minimize that. We still battle certain things like that in today's day and age, but I learned a lot of that, like what the long -term repercussions are when you continually do that for customers, working for some of those outfits. So got a lot of experience during that time.

Enmanuel (08:54.357)
100 % 100 % and so at what point was it James that you started working? Well, did you were you working for a long time? For other landscapers before you went ahead and ventured off on your own?

James Doyle (09:09.426)
I jumped into a couple different places, you know from like high school so from like 16 to 16 to 18 was a couple different, you know, four or five different companies over those two years Small to medium -sized nothing like major. We don't have any huge major players in the industry here like in our market so I did that and then Yeah, so then 18 when I was 18 this would have been 2012 2013 time frame I got into

Working for a best friends company of local company, like a heavy highway construction company. And his father saw some, you know, saw some potential and, you know, they got me into the union full time, you know, or for full book rather, in the operators union here in Connecticut, the local 478. So I got in there right out of high school, you know, full book, 32 bucks an hour, you know, with a benefit package.

Enmanuel (09:58.089)
Nice.

James Doyle (10:02.61)
Making great money, know, I bought my first house just after. Yeah, I bought my first house just after 20. Just that was my goal by my 21st birthday. So we just about hit that. then that was where I kind of like I did five years there. So I worked there till I was 22 or 23. And my last year was, let's see. Yes, I started innovative in 2022. So there were some things up and down with the politics of things and things of that nature that happened.

Enmanuel (10:04.479)
Holy

James Doyle (10:31.122)
I just said, man, we were doing projects on the side and just like renting equipment. I was using his dump truck and this and that, just doing small little stuff. I lost a couple of jobs because I didn't have insurance. And it was kind of like, I was young and I was 21, 22. So I was like, let's just start something, you know, let's see what happens and go for it. So that last year, which would have been my fifth year in the union, I was 23. worked third shift for the highway company doing like the road milling. And we were, we were part of like the cleanup stuff for like the DOT

one of the major paving contractors here in Connecticut. So we'd run a street sweeper and like a smaller bobcat and do like cleanup work for the road milling division. And I just like, I was just like, man, this is just, you know, some things happen and you know, just it fell through and it didn't end up working out. I, was my last year and I just, I went full bore into it. You know, it was tough cause I'd, you know, going from having a paycheck, you know, making really good money to having nothing, but I was already a year established.

And times are obviously a little bit different back in 16, 17, pre -2020. So I got going with that and it was just, I kind of never looked back. I just kept going. A lot of risks and gambling and just making uneducated, uncalculated risk decisions that have since panned out. But there's been some that haven't and it's just a big risk factor with everything.

Enmanuel (11:56.885)
1000 % but then again that risk is what sets you apart right you were able to take on that risk and that's how you're able to among the success that you've amounted to so that's awesome and you know what let's get into let's get into the breakdown of it so so you started your company in 2022 that was after covid was were things back okay

James Doyle (12:14.014)
No, no, no, no, no, no, no,

Enmanuel (12:21.205)
Oh, gotcha, gotcha. it. Okay, cool. And so you're 20, you were 22 years old. You said, okay, I'm going to go full time with this. Your personality is kind of like very competitive, very, you know, let's get this shit done right. So, so what was your first steps to land jobs? How, how did that look like for you in 2017?

James Doyle (12:45.239)
So I'll be honest, mean the first pictures that I have on my Instagram, I use Instagram as like a portfolio to see like how we've evolved over the years and obviously showcase our work and we don't get a lot of customers from Instagram, but we do. But every time, time to time again, I'll go back and I'll just look through stuff. I mean, the first pictures I posted was a free job with my first truck that I lettered to make us appear as a larger company to kind of show that professionalism with a rented excavator at my sister's house in our front yard.

Enmanuel (13:07.445)
Yeah.

James Doyle (13:11.221)
You know, so like I just started the branding right off the bat and just said, if I'm going to, if I'm going to try to be the part, I got to look the part. Nobody's going to take us seriously if we just show up in a, you know, an unlettered truck. So like it was, that was kind of the start, you know, just trying to showcase and like model ourselves, you know, the R and D method, you know, Robin duplicate. looked at a lot of other guys in the industry that, know, I, you know, it was admirable too. And, you know, just try to like duplicate some of the things that they were doing in their markets, you know, here and try to present ourselves professional, you

Enmanuel (13:17.908)
Yes, sir.

James Doyle (13:41.015)
Like we had our shit together and you know, there's a lot of jobs we lost at that. was like, man, I look back at our QuickBooks since day one and I'm just like, how the fuck did we do a job for $1 when it cost me two grand? But it didn't matter because it was cashflow coming in and I didn't realize it right away. So it wasn't like there was just a check coming in. Those are the early stages of business that you do

Enmanuel (13:56.744)
Ha ha ha ha

James Doyle (14:06.668)
you're just naive to it and you're ignorant to the fact that you don't know yet. It's all experience, right? It's not because you want to be a scab and do things cheap, but it's like you just don't know any better. So we just kind of just hit a lot of Facebook stuff. I was very active with trying to continually post stuff, Facebook, Instagram, just trying to keep that rolling as stupid as people thought. I went to one of my best friends, one of my close friends that did video stuff in his church and I was like, hey, Luke, I was

I want you to film us ripping out all this overgrown shit with a rental excavator that I borrowed from a buddy of mine and putting it in the bed of my dump truck. He's like, what? I was like, yeah, I like, this is what I want you to do. I remember it was 2017. I sat down with him in a dunk of donuts and he brought me this contract and I'm like, you want me to sign this? I like, I just want you to videotape this so I can put it on Instagram. And he laughed at me and he's like, I really only do this for like my church. So like, that was the thing. Like we got that going and started

Enmanuel (14:45.286)
Ha ha.

James Doyle (15:01.996)
put some music to it and like showcase the work that we were doing so like we could tell the story of like so and so hired us to do this and like this is where we're going with it and like here's the end result you know. And a lot of people laughed at us for it. That kid now quit his full time job. Yeah that that kid Luke now quit his full time job. He still videotapes everything for us to this day for our content creation. Quit his full time job and now showcases blue collar work all over New England. I mean he is killing

You know, because it and back then, like back then before like the branding and like social media stuff really took off, like there was only a couple of people that were doing it. Nobody around here was doing it. You know, I look back like the video quality of stuff and like what we were doing is kind of corny and cheesy, but like nobody was doing it. And it became like a thing, you know, as like the platforms progressed and people started really showcasing content and people started taking off because of their involvement with posting online. And, you know, it's

Enmanuel (15:32.744)
Really, dude?

James Doyle (16:01.334)
It's cool to just see the times on how things like that have evolved,

Enmanuel (16:07.093)
So you guys pretty much beat the market when it came to having quality content because that's one thing I noticed off day one Like the website all the videos are there everything was high quality You can tell this is not just coming from a galaxy Android with a blurry image You know, everybody's well branded the trucks are branded. So man, you really hit that you hit it on the nail up that you beat the market pretty much

James Doyle (16:31.157)
That's the E in CreateMan for our values. Excellent presentation of people and equipment in the workplace. It's putting ourselves out there and showcasing the equipment, showcasing our people, just excellent presentation.

Enmanuel (16:46.293)
Amazing and I love the crazy story that you mentioned there with your friend that he's now Doing the same thing. He's doing for you for multiple contractors all over That's awesome and it's funny cuz You brought up the contract and you know, you know me to sign this. All I want you to do is is I recorded That's funny

James Doyle (16:53.113)
He's killing it, Killing it. Yep, for sure.

James Doyle (17:06.594)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Enmanuel (17:09.521)
Man, that's awesome. And so so let's get into more than the degree on the business then Rob. I'm sorry. I'm James because you mentioned that You guys do a lot of both lawn care or started doing lawn care and you guys are doing a lot of quite skip jobs now So at the beginning what was that you guys were doing were you guys primarily lawn care or what was it

James Doyle (17:31.214)
Yeah, so I try not to use the word long care just like on our side of things because it involves like more than what we do. Like we don't, we're not pesticide guys. We don't do pesticide applications. We don't do irrigation. We offer it. We sell it out. We have a couple of good service partners that we use for that stuff, you know, for customers that really want to invest in us. And they're not just looking for like the cheapest price on things. We have a couple of good service partners where we can make a margin. They do good, high quality work and we can rely on them to do the service and install and so on and so forth. And it's mainly just for

higher end estates that we're maintaining or long -term customer contracts that we're coming in to do and seasonal work for them every year. We have a relationship. So we started basically full grounds maintenance, other than the things I just mentioned, spring and fall cleanups and weekly lawn maintenance, just cutting the grass and shrub trimming, bed maintenance. That's kind of how we started and

Just started with a lot of smaller houses and got a couple smaller condos, know, six, eight units, you know, stuff that I could handle with me and like one other guy. And, know, it progressively got bigger. And today we do like, we have 42 or 45 accounts now. A lot of them, you know, are mainly based around the communal living and condo association, HOA maintenance, you know, so they're not, they're not town homes,

Enmanuel (18:52.819)
Amen.

James Doyle (18:53.349)
They're not really condos. kind of like, but they're not these luxury townhouses and condo buildings, apartment buildings that you see a lot of guys maintaining. It's a little bit different. There's a lot of grass space, a lot of beds, a lot of things to maintain like that. Things of that nature. it's yeah, no, no. So that that's all self -performed. Yep. So that that's all self -performed. So we have a couple of crews on that side of things. It's it's we've struggled since we got past the, you know,

Enmanuel (19:06.574)
And you guys do that yourselves or is that part of the one that you guys sub out

James Doyle (19:21.083)
four man on the maintenance side type deal. Like once we got over four guys, it just became a little bit tough. And I think it's because of the types of accounts that we're going after and that we're continually servicing because you can't send a two man or three man mowing crew to the places that we have. Like we have one estate, it's 15 acres of grass. It's a 40 acre property and it's 15 acres of mowable turf. You can't send two guys there and have them be productive or profitable. And then when it comes to like

you know, our communal living type stuff, our condos, they're so big and there's so much detail. There's so much trimming work that like you can't just send two or three guys in there, you know? So we have a crew of five guys that basically hammers out all those larger sites because they're productive. We'll have three guys trimming, two guys mowing, because that's the amount of detail work that's involved. And then we have a smaller three man crew that does like your, your in and out smaller commercial plazas. You know, we do a couple of Starbucks and some like pop -up medical facility plazas, things of that nature.

And they're pretty productive. then when we get into the slow times right now, they'll just jump on doing a lot of the shrub cut backs and bed maintenance and things like that, while the other mow crew basically handles everything. Because the grass growing has slowed down a little bit. So we can kind of make it happen like that.

Enmanuel (20:37.573)
and that's pretty cool. about on your how are things looking like because you guys do a bunch of stuff, right? Like that was the what we just talked about there. That's kind of like the maintenance side. You guys also have an entire hardscape side and you guys are doing some crazy, crazy things with that. How does that side of things look like for you guys right

James Doyle (20:44.153)
Yeah. Yup.

James Doyle (20:52.995)
Yeah.

James Doyle (20:57.307)
Yeah, so there's five of us on that side, plus myself, so six of us. And I've kind of started to remove myself a little bit from that side just this year because I have to put some of the trust into these guys that have good skill sets and that are better than myself at some things. And it's hard. I'm very, very good at delegating things that I'm not good at or I don't want to do, but it is impossible for me to delegate things that I'm really proficient

and that I enjoy doing. So, but I realized that like it's time for me to work more on the business than in the business and really, really trust these guys and give them the tools they need and the direction that they need to execute. And that's kind of where we've gotten to, to this point, to your point on the hardscape stuff. We probably only do eight or 10 projects a year that involve hardscapes, know, so it's like front sidewalks, you know, we're not doing a lot of like big hardscape design work. Like that's just not

business model. don't have an in -house designer. We do a couple cool projects, but we just don't, we don't want to subcontract out a designer. We don't want to do it in -house. It's just, it's not our forte, you know? So kind of some of your basic, you know, sidewalks and backyard, you know, larger patios, know, 500 to a thousand square feet. You know, we do a couple of those a year and we do a lot of boulders wall style, you know, retainment systems, you know, things that we could do a lot of, you know, mechanized installation.

methods, know, with machinery. And that's kind of the gist of like the hardscape stuff. We do a lot of drainage work, lot of grading and hydro seeding and a lot of like land management stuff. like free removal, know, forestry mulching, brush hogging, know, fence line clearing, do a lot of things like that. It's kind of growing pretty rapidly. You know, we're not clearing for solar fields, but you know, our niche is kind of like somebody wants to have

you know, an extra half an acre, you know, they realize that they have, you know, they their property surveyed and they want an extra half an acre in their backyard. It's a massive slope into the woods. Your typical landscape guy is not going to have the equipment to do it. And your large site guy is not going to want to do the tree work. He's only going to want to fill and grade it off, but he's not going to plant the grass. We'll do it all start to finish, self -performed with all of our own equipment. So, and we could do it from start to finish, you

Enmanuel (23:14.495)
Wow, I love

James Doyle (23:17.415)
We'll sub out a couple trucks to haul if we have a big fill to do or something like that. We've done a couple dozen projects like that where we're getting pretty efficient at it. Other than the extra trucking, if we have a large volume of material to haul, it's all our own equipment for the most part, and it's all self -performed with our own guys. And a lot of it's mechanized, so it's pretty easy work for us. But we know our limitations. We got into a pretty

pretty large -sized project just from an Instagram ad this summer, or over the winter, rather, last year. my guys have been on site there for six months. There were times where six of us were on site. And I've basically had two guys there since January or early February last year, or this year, rather.

Enmanuel (24:01.023)
What type of project is that for six guys since January to be on there? Or four to eight?

James Doyle (24:05.628)
Yeah, so it's a private owner funded disc golf course. So it's going to be open to the public for Ultimate Frisbee, Frisbee golf, disc golf. There's like three different things to call it. But yeah, full course design with a designer out of Texas. Do a lot of site visits with him. it's basically, it's a lifelong dream of this client that we have that we've now grown a long -term relationship with. I mean, we've got work here for the next few years.

And a lot of drainage, a lot of clearing, the property was logged and it was heavily, heavily damaged pertaining to what the long -term uses of the property were. mean, there's a lot of reclaim work that needed to be done. Everything from tree clearing, additional tree clearing for the site layout, chipping and cleaning up and gathering of all the slash from the logging efforts, establishing new roads, reclaiming existing roads that got damaged, parking lots, new full.

10 foot driveway cut installation with paving, tons of drainage and water mitigation. mean, it's the single -handedly largest project we've ever done and we self -performed the entire thing aside from the paving. So pretty humble to say that we got the opportunity to do it and we'll be

James Doyle (25:29.184)
Enmanuel (25:30.697)
That's pretty awesome right there. So was that kind of like this guy, like you said, had a lifelong dream of owning such a course and he just bought the land, bunch of trees on it. You guys cleared out the specific trees, laid down the needed sod, maintained it, cultivating it to look like an actual golf course.

James Doyle (25:50.579)
So sort of but not quite. this is basically it's like a ultimate frisbee golf course. So it's a course, it's very challenging course through the woods. So there's no grass. It's all forest. So all these areas are basically just, yeah, they're basically all cleared out and leveled off for water mitigation. Some of them have some erosion control things in place

Enmanuel (26:05.953)
no grass.

James Doyle (26:15.668)
The next phase in the fall we'll be doing a lot of hydro seating of these hard to access. That's the biggest challenge of that job was just the access. We had to rent a lot of specialty equipment for access and things of that nature. It's not your typical, typical golf course, but mean it's 18 holes, it's 170 acre site, so it's a big job.

Enmanuel (26:39.529)
Wow, but if you hydropower, wouldn't there be grass involved? Like wouldn't grass grow from that?

James Doyle (26:43.432)
Yeah, yep, yeah, yeah. So certain sections will be hydro -seeded. And it's mainly not for the, it's not mainly for the aesthetics of it. It's for the erosion control. You know, a lot of it's steep terrain and they want to get, they want to get, you know, type of root base established to keep, you know, washouts and things like that from continually happening.

Enmanuel (27:09.219)
that makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Okay. That's pretty cool right there. and you know what, James, let's talk about now let's talk about, I know that you, you've been growing the company and you actually went through an acquisition recently. And, of course, you know, we can't talk too much about it because it's not fully solidified, but I want to talk to you, pick your brain a little bit on what it's like, what the process is like for acquiring or being acquired. Is that cool if we talk about that? Awesome.

James Doyle (27:33.172)
Yeah, for sure.

Enmanuel (27:36.647)
Let's do it. Let's do it. So in this case, were you guys acquired or did you guys acquire another company?

James Doyle (27:41.717)
So we are in the process, we're about 80 % there. We are performing their work already. We basically acquired another company.

Enmanuel (27:54.843)
Ooh, that is cool. And so how does that work? How does that hope? Cause I know that a lot of the smaller landscapers, the bigger landscapers that watch our podcast, eventually they're going to be acquiring other companies themselves, right? Cause of course, if you're in it for the long run, you want your company to grow. And a great way to do that is just to take on a company that maybe doesn't have systems. You can acquire it, apply your systems. Now it's more efficient and if the cash flows even more. So what's the first step

You just go on Google and like find landscaping companies near you and call them and say, hey, I want to buy you guys out. Or how does that work? How does that look?

James Doyle (28:31.497)
Yeah, great question. So this was actually a little bit of a different unique situation that happened with us. This was actually a client of ours. It's a very, very ironic story. So he was a client of ours, smaller outfit, three to five guys doing anywhere from two and a half to four million a year in sales. A lot of heavy capital and equipment.

You know, and this is not in the landscape side of the business. This is going to be for like the land management side of the business. You know, the tree clearing, forest mulching, things of that nature. So he was basically the CEO of his company, a lot of day -to -day operations, you know, in and out, basically doing everything. And we took care of one of his properties, basically. So I developed a relationship with this guy for a number of years.

He had a couple things that happened that weren't necessarily his fault and nothing nothing negative by any means It just he lost a couple key players, you know, he's been in the bit. He's been in business for 20 years You know, he's watching his his younger kids his boys grow up and you know He's working on machines on Sundays and you know there's just a lot of things that he lacked that we have and to your point earlier of like You know systems and processes there. Those are things that we lack that he has

This kind of became like a, we have what you have, you have what we have, what we need type situation. And it just got into a couple phone calls and like back and forth. So like, Hey, this is, you know, this is cool. I mean, it's a cool thing to think about. then, you know, four months later, we're three months later, we're performing work with two new entities formed in two different States to services work. So,

know, a sister companies of what we have now is that we can legally, tax wise, workers comp wise, you know, having class codes for workers comp for employees traveling to other states, things of that nature. mean, and we're learning it. I mean, it's all things that we don't know that we didn't know how to do two months ago. You know, we're in the very, very early stages of this. There's not going to be like a huge like announcement. Like we're just, we're just turning the key on and we're just driving. That's basically, you know, how things are working. But

James Doyle (30:46.645)
Yeah, so to answer your question more directly, we had a few conversations and he kind of let me know where he was at and what he hoped to do and what he was looking for. Very unique situation cashflow wise where it was very, what's the word I'm looking for? I've been tedious on my part to kind of jump on it.

We just went back and forth until we figured something out. We had some assessments done and looked at comps of equipment, things of that nature. Cash flow, checked liens on equipment, things like that. We had some legal things drawn up and that's kind of where we're at. It's progressing. He's now a, as of August 1st, he's a full -time employee with us, kind of on the back end.

Enmanuel (31:21.268)
Wow.

James Doyle (31:41.941)
Yeah, he's going to do a lot on the back end for us as far as sales and bringing in work and compliances for new work that we're going to be performing. Things that we already do, we're not changing the work that we're doing that we've already done for two years. We're just expanding our market basically with the help of another outside resource with more experience basically at a cost of course, you know, but I mean everything.

Enmanuel (32:09.841)
Of course,

James Doyle (32:09.942)
worth having comes at a cost, you know, so it's, it's definitely scary. A lot of things out of my comfort zone right now, and I'm trusting and relying on other people's best judgment to make it work. You know, we acquired our full -time office manager last year at a very, very larger increase than what we've, you know, but with a lot more skill set, a lot more organization, a lot more opportunity. So it's like, we've had a couple of large add -ons in the last two years.

that have just kind of transformed our business that people from the outside looking in don't realize how you can accomplish some things. It's not about what I can accomplish. It's about the team. I when you have people in your court, true leaders bring great people of different skill sets together and build a team. mean, that's, you know, it's things I work on every day. I'm not doing all this stuff myself. I mean, I wouldn't be able to do half the things we do without them, you know. But that's kind of how we've gotten to where we're at and what the plans are, you know.

Enmanuel (33:04.991)
Dude, I love that right there.

And there was one key word there that you mentioned, which was key players, key players that the other guy lost. But key players is what you have as well. Like you have a rock star office manager that lets you do so many more things than you could with a regular person paying them a small, you know, half their salary, for example. So I love the fact that you see the investment in that. and I love the fact you mentioned that you're also putting your trust into other people's best judgment for this acquisition, because that's more

that you're taking. But again, if you didn't take that risk, your company will all be the same size as it was last year. It'll be the same size three years from

James Doyle (33:44.569)
And that's the that's the thing yeah 100 % and that's the thing it's like, you know Folks that don't pay attention to you know, something like what happens right now over the course of the six months This year of me figuring it out while my wife's pregnant with twins and all the things I have going on at home Like those are the risks I'm taking which in three years Somebody out there, which I don't care will be like that doesn't make any sense man But I'll be like remember that six month period when my wife was barely able to go to work every day and

pregnant with twins and I'm freaking out there grinding like making these huge calculated risks like this is the these are the fruits of that labor so to speak you know like it's not and again this all could blow up in my face I have no idea I really don't I mean with the right math equations put together you know I hope it doesn't and I pray every day that we make the right decisions we have the right people in place to handle you know what comes through the pipeline you know I think we will you know so

Enmanuel (34:20.754)
Yeah.

Enmanuel (34:40.021)
thousand

Enmanuel (34:45.193)
Yeah, and I freaking love it man. What you just mentioned there too, you your wife is pregnant, you have all these calculations, all this is going on. It's fucking insane, bro. Being an entrepreneur is not a walk down the fucking park at all, man. And it's exactly how you're picturing it. I mean, you have to take risks, you have to be uncomfortable. And if you don't take that risk, then you don't have the opportunity to even grow. But like you said, looking three years back from like three years from now, you're gonna look back and say, holy shit, what was I thinking? But it worked out. I bet you're not gonna be upset that it worked out.

James Doyle (35:14.052)
Yeah man, mean that's the intent, know? mean it's, yeah, that's the intent. It's not wished upon anybody to not succeed at something, you know? But there's risks with everything. Some things don't work out. We've had plenty of things that didn't work out. I'm very optimistic that I know this is gonna work out. even if what we benefit out of this acquisition is some systems and processes and streamlining things to make them easier.

just with certain aspects of even the other side of the business that he can bring value to. That's an indirect benefit that you can't measure.

Enmanuel (35:54.485)
100 % and I have two questions on the same topic game. first things first, you mentioned that he was your client. how was he your client if he owns a company that does that already?

James Doyle (36:04.494)
Yeah, so we were a great question. So we took care of his property where he lives, just because he was so invested in his business. He's got a larger property, one of the towns pretty close to where we live in service that we did the year -round property maintenance there for a few years. So all the mowing, spring and fall cleanups.

Enmanuel (36:23.145)
But how come he doesn't just have his own company do that for him?

James Doyle (36:26.597)
So they weren't in the actual landscape maintenance side of the business. Their focus and core service, yeah, yup, so their core focus and service was not to do with our maintenance side of the business handles. So that's how that relationship was formed. Yeah, they didn't have any equipment to do that side. So they're geared all towards the forestry side of things.

Enmanuel (36:32.977)
all of them were quickly

Enmanuel (36:43.558)
I see.

James Doyle (36:52.345)
Yep.

Enmanuel (36:52.399)
Gotcha. that makes total sense. Now. That's awesome. And then my second question was going to be, so now that you've acquired this company, how is the structure of it? Like, are you now you fully own this company is entirely under your management. Now you're paying their employees, you're taking over their systems and the owner is, is he also still a decision maker or how does that look?

James Doyle (36:54.916)
Yep. Yep.

James Doyle (37:17.636)
So the owner will be, yeah, so he'll be, there's certain things I can't talk about just because of the time sensitive of the matter and the relationship change. so the easiest way to answer it is he will be on our side of the fence, calling the shots in the backend. could basically, I don't know if CEO or COO would be the correct term, but he would be kind of something

Enmanuel (37:25.556)
Yes.

James Doyle (37:46.358)
of that nature on our side of the business. So bringing in new work, establishing relationships in different scopes of work, updating and keeping compliances for certain types of work that we're venturing into with different clients. Again, same exact work we're already doing called in like the private residential market that we're going to be performing in different markets that require a lot more paperwork, safety compliances.

things like that. that's basically going to be his side of the business so that it continues to run scheduling, logistics, things like that. So there's no ownership in, you know, there's no ownership transfer of innovative. am the sole 100 % owner of this company. And there's, there's no, you know, investment of anybody else into it. A part of the acquisition coming on.

So there's a couple employees that are staying on that are just basically, we have to change paperwork for payroll. Basically that's just the difference.

Enmanuel (38:53.873)
God. Wow, that is a super awesome,

James Doyle (38:57.143)
It's unique, it's definitely unique.

Enmanuel (38:59.434)
Definitely, yeah, I get it now why they call it mergers and acquisitions because this is like a, they did get acquired, but you're also merging the two companies together to be on the same mission.

James Doyle (39:09.597)
Correct. It'll all be under one umbrella, so it'll be underneath Innovative. So we'll do a little, I don't know if we'll do a rebrand. You know, like when we answer the phone, it's, hey, it's James from Innovative. Hey, it's James, Crystal from Innovative. It's not so -and -so from Innovative One and Landscape. So we were gonna brand the name and do like a sister company, and then we're like, you know what? We should just call it Innovative. Just call it Innovative CT or something like that, and

you because that's what our website name is, Innovative CT. I mean, we don't have to change it to Innovative Enterprises or anything like that. It becomes screwy with like insurances and changing all these different things because insurance compliances have to match whatever the entity name is. And it's just like, when you start changing things around, it just becomes, you know, the certificate holder has to match. just, it's things that I don't, we don't need to make it more complicated than it needs to be. You know, if we have to change some coverages and things like that for different scopes of work or contracts that we have to meet requirements, so be it. We just do it underneath

Enmanuel (39:43.625)
Yeah.

James Doyle (40:03.677)
There's a different entity that holds some of the equipment and things like that just for liability purposes, but that's all behind the scenes that nobody ever sees. It's just legal stuff that, based off of legal recommendations from attorneys like, from liability purposes, put this underneath this so things don't happen. Everybody does it. It's a holdings company.

Enmanuel (40:27.091)
Yeah, dude, that's freaking awesome, man. And so, so I want to get into James real quick here too. What are some, cause I want to be respectful of your time. I know you've been on here for a while and what are some, some pieces of advice that you would kind of tell to a younger landscaper that's getting started or a long care guy that's just getting started. They look up to a guy like you and they say, Holy shit, look at what, look at his empire. Look at what he's got going on. How can they get to your point? What are some of the key?

decisions or key actions that you took that allowed you to be where you are today.

James Doyle (41:00.318)
I'm going to go full 360 on this because my answers have changed a little bit over time as like the company's grown and a couple different things. And the first thing that comes to mind is you see it on Instagram and Facebook all the time. Like you see these memes of like, you know, the woman in your corner. If I didn't have my wife, I wouldn't have this company. She has absolutely nothing to, she pulled into our shop the other day and didn't even realize we own three different service trucks. She has no idea about what happens with the business to an extent.

Enmanuel (41:21.78)
Yeah.

James Doyle (41:28.584)
So she doesn't have any like day -to -day involvement, but she is literally that when I say she's the backbone to the operation, like when I come home, like breaking down on my knees at night, like she's there to pick me up, right? Like if you do not have somebody as like in a core like support system to take care of you, like I'm carrying Buffalo on my back. You know what I mean? Like that's the expression I use. And it's like, she's there to help carry that when I walk through the door, she's always there to be unfortunately a punching bag, you know, and cause I can, I can kind

voice my negativity and anger on certain things to her and I know that I'm not going to have major repercussions where if I do it to a guy, know, or somebody in the off, like it just things get upset, you know, people get upset rather and it's just so she, she helps, she helps me manage a lot of the day to day stress and you know, I owe a lot to her. She does so much for our home without being able to come home to a nice home.

and enjoy like a nice lifestyle at home that we've worked so hard for over the past 10 years to have and raise our family in like it wouldn't all be worth it like money is just a tool to get to you know to get what you're trying to achieve in life it's not the money you're after it's the lifestyle it's the opportunities it's the vacation it's the taking care of your family it's the donations are given back to your community like those are the things you do with money it's not to get to the money right so it's like if you could have somebody in your support system to help you achieve

that's not, hey, you can't be working, it's Friday, we have to go to the bar. We gave that shit up at 20 years old, man. We gave it up. So that's one of my biggest pieces of advice that I've realized that as we get bigger and I see how much dedication she puts in and believes in us, yeah, it's that and just trust your guys, man. It's something that I have realized over the past 12 months.

Enmanuel (42:59.656)
Thank

James Doyle (43:19.104)
really invest in the people that you can't afford. And if you invest in the people you can't afford, like if you can afford somebody, you probably don't need them. If you can't afford somebody, it's because they come with such value at that price point that you won't realize what opportunities they can bring to the table. And that's something that I realized over the last really, really 12 months and specifically this year, like just relying on these guys and putting it on them and saying, Hey, I can't carry anymore.

Here's the directions of this job. Here's the everything that we need to like go get it. And every time I let them do it, it's just, it benefits and it goes, you know, and it's, it helped, we just, we succeed, you

That's kind of, that's 100, yep, 100%.

Enmanuel (44:06.057)
Yeah, a hundred percent instead of trying to micromanage them or, or, or, or just being on their back all the

James Doyle (44:14.004)
Yeah. yeah. mean, again, it's, you know, just work hard, you know, do what you say you're going to do, you know, over promise or don't over promise and under deliver to the opposite. Just don't do it every time because then it becomes an expectation.

Enmanuel (44:30.271)
then it becomes an expectation. like that, I like that. And James, one last thing here, one last thing. At your level, like you mentioned, you're carrying a buffalo on your back. The guys that are watching this and, you know, that are aspiring to get there, they will one day carry their own buffalo on their back. They might have a baby buffalo on their back right now, or adolescent buffalo, but one day it'll be full grown. So what are some of the things that you do to, you know, keep that in check, you know, stay?

James Doyle (44:33.566)
Yep.

Enmanuel (45:00.149)
Present not get overwhelmed. I you're doing 75 hard now What what else does what else do you do to be yourself?

James Doyle (45:09.005)
Yeah, man, so I don't really have any hobbies other than work. I don't own a boat. I don't own anything personal, which is something I'm going to change just because I've worked really hard to get to this point. know, I suffer from a big thing called posture imposter syndrome, like where I just don't feel like I deserve a lot of things. I can't post a lot of things. I have a beautiful home on 45 acres. I really don't want to post anything about it just because I don't want people to like, oh, look at that. Like, you know, it's just you worry about the critics and the negativity and it's

Enmanuel (45:19.945)
Yes, sir.

James Doyle (45:35.401)
And I've realized that like there's people out there that like I've looked up to and robbed and duplicated to go after and chase my dreams that did a service to me by showcasing what they're doing and being proud. know, so, you know, just basically to answer your question, like I've joined a group of, you know, a lot of very, very high performing entrepreneurs and surrounded myself with people. I traveled back and forth down to South Carolina and, you know, Atlanta area every month.

and quarterly for very large events around these people. And I've just surrounded myself with people like that. It's an investment, but it's an investment in yourself. And honestly, I'm on my second workout of the day right now while we're recording this on 75 hard. If I didn't surround myself with those people, I would never be doing this. Like I was going down a really shitty road health -wise, not shitty at all, but like just for me, like in my mind, I was like, man, I could do so much better than this. Look what we've done in business. Like I got to put this time into myself, you

And if I had never surrounded myself with those people, they would have never pushed me to do this. mean, I've literally, I'm on day like 72 of 4 a .m. I haven't slept in past 4 a .m. in 72 days. Like never in my life have I ever done that. And I'm on day 35 of 75 hard. So it's, you know, I'm tired, man. It's a lot, you know, with everything I got going on. And there's guys that do more than me. You know, there's guys that certainly do less. You know, I was one of them like getting sleeping until six o 'clock, six thirty, barely get into the shop before my top guys. Like it just,

worth so much more than that to myself, my family and my team to show up for. Like I said, to answer your question, just kind of surround yourself with good people that'll push you to do more and you'll really reap the benefit and the reward out of it. know, spiritually and physically, I feel 100 % like I felt really shitty the last couple of years. And just mentally, I'm just so much more clear and it's made me be able to make decisions like that acquisition and, you know, have a level head to do these things and keep progressing. So just take care of yourself.

Because the entrepreneur journey is draining, man. It's definitely draining. But it's the most rewarding thing you could do.

Enmanuel (47:42.889)
most rewarding thing you can do. love it. And James, I really appreciate your time, man. You're an amazing person. These, you know, the people that are listening in right now, what's the best way for them to get in contact with you, whether it's, you know, a client that wants some work done or an employee looking for a job or just another landscaper, hardscape or lawn care guy that's looking to scale that may have a question for you on the mentoring side, how can they reach you?

James Doyle (48:07.65)
Yeah, so Innovative Lawn & Landscape LLC, all one word spelled out on Instagram. So it's Innovative Lawn & Landscape LLC. then visit our website. I mean, there's a couple of contact forms and stuff on there, innovativect .com. Yeah, I mean, just find me on Facebook, shoot me a message, James Doyle. I'm always happy to talk business with guys.

A lot of people that want to learn like me, I message guys all the time to just ask them, hey, how are you doing this? And hey, any advice you could give on that? I just ask questions. There's a lot of negative people out there in every different type of industry that'll think that you're just trying to rob what they're doing and they feel threatened. But man, I love talking to business with guys. I could have a two hour conversation with people I don't know. just love talking business. So if there's anything I could ever do to help somebody, it's love to try to do the best I can. I don't know everything, but.

Made a lot of mistakes and we've reaped a lot of benefits so I'd love to share anything I can to help somebody else

Enmanuel (49:07.455)
thousand percent and I love that ending note there and James again I really appreciate you coming on I hope you have an amazing rest of the day the audience if you guys you guys have any questions for James just reach out to him he's an amazing dude but yeah James I appreciate you being on man

James Doyle (49:22.754)
Absolutely man, thanks for having

Enmanuel (49:26.579)
Yes sir, take care.