Healing Families, Crafting Community: The Birthway Herbs Story

When Jamie Lamb's daughter faced a chronic illness, it set them on an unexpected path into herbalism, transforming their family's life and sparking a passion that would eventually bloom into Birthway Herbs. It's a story that speaks to the heart of every parent's instinct to heal and protect their child—now imagine channeling that fierce love into a thriving business that supports the health of countless families. We welcome Jamie to share her empowering journey, offering a candid look at how her dedication to herbalism and birth work is reshaping the landscape of maternal health services. 

Navigating the world of pregnancy and postpartum care can often feel like a minefield of choices, especially when it comes to finding natural and nutritious support. Jamie's craft of blending herbal teas is more than a science; it's an art that caters to the delicate balance of taste, efficacy, and trust. Through the lens of her story, we gain insights into the challenges of drawing modern mothers toward traditional remedies, the trust-building process with clients, and how bringing these teas to local markets can strengthen community health. It's an inspiring testament to how honoring the wisdom of nature can directly impact the wellness of mothers and families.

Motherhood is a transformative experience that profoundly shapes not just our children, but also our personal narratives and professional pursuits. As Jamie and I discuss the ripple effects of witnessing a parent's educational and entrepreneurial successes, we also touch on the search for mentorship within the herbalist community. This episode encapsulates the essence of authenticity, from the personal struggles that birth a business to the integrity that sustains it. Discover the soulful story behind Birthway Herbs, and how authenticity and knowledge-sharing are revolutionizing the herbal community one family at a time.

Heart of Herbs Herbal School 
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Welcome to the Heart of Herbs Herbal School Podcast, www.heartofherbs.com where we explore the world of herbal remedies and natural health solutions. Before we dive into today's episode, If you want to enroll, use code PODCAST to save 20%.

The content provided in this podcast is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease or medical condition. It is always recommended to consult with a qualified healthcare professional

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:41

Hi, this is Demetria Clark, the director of Heart of Herbs Herbal School, and we are the Heart of Herbs Herbal School podcast, and today we are talking to Jamie Lamb, who is someone who's doing a lot of dynamic work in the birth and burgeoning herbal career. So it's really exciting to talk to her and to hear her perspective on things and why she does what she does, and so I'm really excited. So thank you so much for being here. Jamie, can you tell us about yourself?

Speaker 2: 1:14

Sure, Thanks for having me on. I'm Jamie and I'm an entrepreneur at heart. I have about I think it was 2018, I started the path work of becoming a doula so I own Birthway Doula and halfway through that journey I had some family members with some chronic illness and decided to branch into herbalism and found that that was very needed within the birth community. So I'm in the middle of my clinical herbalism studies, so I'm really excited to continue venturing into that. My eyes have really been open to the need for this information, especially in the birth community and just local communities that don't have access to this information. So last year I launched Birthway Herbs and that has been an adventure learning the retail side of herbalism.

Speaker 1: 2:22

That's always so much fun, right, yeah, right. Where can people find you online?

Speaker 2: 2:29

They can find me at birthwayherbscom or birthwaydoulacom.

Speaker 1: 2:35

Okay, cool, because that's really. I mean. No one's going to be looking in the yellow pages anymore, right? So we need to know how to find you, especially if you're a birth worker and you're listening and you want access to some information and you sell products also.

Speaker 2: 2:52

Right now just prenatal and postpartum tea blends.

Speaker 1: 2:56

Okay. So if you're a birth worker and you want to know and have access to something that's created by another birth worker, this is the place to go. A lot of people, I think, think you just throw a tea together and there you go and you have it, and it's actually a lot more work than that. So when you can find a trusted resource, it's really, really important. I used to sell a lot of products to midwives because I had just gotten the reputation that I was an okay place to go to because there's so many things out there. Are you seeing that there's still a lot of quote protocols in the birth world? Like, take six of these caplets for six weeks and you'll give birth at 38 weeks or whatever, or MLM kind of stuff? Are you seeing a lot of that still, or has that kind of gone to the wayside?

Speaker 2: 3:45

I think maybe it's gone to the wayside a little bit, but there is still this push of how can we make birth happen? Like, how can, how can we control it as much as possible? How can we induce labor? Right, so it's no longer. You know, there is still the medicalized side of birth and there are times for that. There's reasons for that, but then even in the natural home birth community, I see it a lot too of like how do we induce this? How do we make this happen, even when we shouldn't be? There's no red flags to indicate it. Um, and it's just been interesting, so many women now are inundated with social media. Right, it's the blessing and the curse of our age.

Speaker 1: 4:35

I can't wait till I retire. I'm gonna get rid of all that and just go back to the flip phone or maybe maybe a landline.

Speaker 2: 4:50

It is the hardest part I feel like of running a business is social media, because I take it really seriously. If I'm going to put information out there, I want to make sure it makes sense and it's safe and also make sense to the communities that I'm working with. You know some people don't have access to home birthing. I wish everyone did. They don't have access to that. So how do we still give good educational information to women in a medicalized system and teaching them about nutrition and herbs? That's going to help build their bodies and I think that that really gets lost in our communities. So that really has been the driving force behind studying clinical herbalism. I have no idea where it's going to take me. I just really want to help people and I want to help plant those seeds of. This is how you can build your body nutritionally and help it naturally before you have to end up with all these other tools.

Speaker 1: 5:57

Oh, I love that. I love that. I find that one of the big struggles, at least for my clinical work and my birth work, is now. Yet again, I'm in another maternal desert. Are you finding that you're where you live, individuals are having a harder time accessing maternal services, and so services like yours are going to become more and more important, or do you feel like your community is really well served?

Speaker 2: 6:29

I feel like I live in it. So I live in central PA. If we're talking about maternal services from a medical standpoint, I mean just where I live. I have access to seven hospitals with labor and delivery within an hour of me and I've served at all those hospitals. That's awesome. Now, the home birth community we do have, I would say, a decent number of home birth midwives, but they're taxed right. They can only serve so many. So we're seeing a lot of burnout for them and it breaks my heart because we need more and we need more that are able to spend the time to educate women, because a lot of families, at least in my experience, are not thinking about how to take care of their bodies until they're growing another human.

Speaker 1: 7:31

And there's a huge learning curve.

Speaker 2: 7:33

Yes, and so you know I I love like looking at all the fancy you know herbalist social media pages and podcasts and all that, but the reality is I have a lot of background knowledge. These families that I'm working with, I mean the thought of even buying organic is foreign to some of them, let alone telling them that an herb could really. It's not that they want to take red raspberry leaf to induce, right, that's what's in their head. It's like if I drink this tea, I will go into labor. No, we want to talk about the mineral content and why that's really good for your body, and I just feel like that education is lacking, even though we have we have an area that we live in that has a lot of resources. As far as herbalism, I feel like there is still this gap and I really want to figure out how do we bridge that gap.

Speaker 1: 8:38

Yeah, I think that's a an important role that birth workers and herbalists are going to fill. Um, I just hope that it can be filled in a sustainable and equitable way, because we are seeing in midwifery burnout and we are seeing doulas burning out and we are seeing, you know, parents having postpartum care for like four or six months because they're just burning out too, and I think, like work that you do can really help bridge the gap for people. I feel like a lot of things that are done in our culture to help young families are band-aids, where I think, like herbalism and birth work are long-term solutions, like people have a relationship with their midwife and their doula for a really long time, and I hope that we don't continue to navigate towards the band-aid solution. You know what I mean like right, so I'm glad that it sounds like you have a lot of resources for families. Do you feel like where you live, families are able to access them, even if they're there, or is that still like out of their reach at times?

Speaker 2: 10:04

Yeah, it depends on the regional area that I'm working within at the time. I think there are still areas that they just don't know those resources are available and it's hard to access them.

Speaker 1: 10:18

Well, yeah, if you don't know, right, right If you don't know.

Speaker 2: 10:24

Yeah, um well, yeah, if you don't know, right, right, if you don't know, yeah, and I think I think too. I hate to say this, but doula work and herbalism is kind of going through this trendy thing recently, yeah, which I love because it it brings it to the forefront, right and people start realizing like, oh, this, this is a real thing and it's needed in our communities. But with that often brings a lot of issues.

Speaker 2: 10:51

Yeah yeah, we're pricing people out of being able to afford these resources, and it's soon, I think. What I'm afraid of is that eventually there's going to be this gap because it became so trendy that well, I can't even look at that now because you know I can't afford that or I don't have the resources for that. So I think that that is a little bit of my fear. I see that a little bit in our communities. That is a little bit of my fear. I see that a little bit in our communities, and so I just I hope it doesn't end up that way. I hope the trendiness of it brings education to the forefront and doesn't keep people resourced out.

Speaker 1: 11:37

Yeah, I mean as an education provider. I have noticed that I'm getting a lot more requests from people who are like hey, I live in a state that's just allowing you know they're going to start paying doulas, so like, how much do I have to pay you to get certified and I'm like you have to enroll and do the work?

Speaker 2: 11:58

You can't just fast track me.

Speaker 1: 11:59

I've been to like a birth before and they get really rude and I'm like nope, like I want to be able to work with that state, so why would I shoot my foot off for you?

Speaker 1: 12:10

yeah, yeah pay me enough money. You want to pay me a few million dollars? Maybe I'll, maybe I'll lose all integrity, like you know a lot of people I don't know, but no, but I mean, like it's just funny because it's like the second third party billing and insurance steps in. It totally changes the dynamic and I think that's bad because it's this, this bandaid solution which I'm hoping that you know we will be able to, as professionals, ride through the storm and, you know, be part of the long-term solution. So what drew you to herbalism? Like, do you have an aha moment?

Speaker 2: 12:55

or I think it was a slow roll. I loved a garden. A garden is my therapy role. I love to garden. Garden is my therapy, yeah, and it's my husband's hobby as well, so that's like our thing that we love to do together. I mean, we were outside last night until it was dark planting cabbages. Let's do a permaculture course together Our dates get really nerdy, but I would say it started as that. As I'm planting my vegetable garden, years ago I was walking past the herbs and I had no idea what they did, but I knew they smelled good and they looked pretty.

Speaker 2: 13:36

So I just started, you know, year after year, building my herb garden. You know, year after year, building my herb garden. And I have a daughter with some chronic illness and really started to realize Western medicine wasn't cutting it for us. They really just couldn't give us answers and how to help her. So I started doing my own research. I mean you talk about real grassroots education. I mean I just started grasping at medical journal articles. You know anything I could find about herbs, herbal books. I mean I was just pouring into how do I help my kid? And that's really what started the journey.

Speaker 2: 14:23

And then, as I moved into birth work and I started recognizing this isn't just a me and my kid problem, this is a problem for so many families and they don't know where to start. And not everyone I always say not everyone has the capacity I think I was built with to get mad enough and self motivated enough to just, you know, throw it all to caution and just do all the education and hard work. A lot of families feel very frozen by that. So when I started recognizing hey, I need to start planting these seeds for families. This is how you can help your immune system, this is how you can help your kiddo with their eczema, and just start planting these seeds.

Speaker 2: 15:20

That's when I really started realizing. You know, I have all this random knowledge about herbs. I'm just going to put it together now. I'm going to put it together and sometimes I think what was I thinking? Because, kudos to you, this clinical herbalism program is amazing, but it is hard work which I know is going to pay off in the end. But I mean, that's essentially what drew me into it, because I realized I need to take all of this random education I've gotten over the years to help my own family, this random education I've gotten over the years to help my own family. I know this is probably somehow I'm going to end up in this field long-term. Whether it's I eventually don't want to live on call with birth work anymore, I'm still going to be working with some sort of herbal medicine. So that's that's essentially why I jumped in head first, and it has really taken me on a journey, to say the least.

Speaker 1: 16:27

So it sounds to me like you're walking around the plant store and the herbs are calling your name.

Speaker 2: 16:34

They really are it's. It's gotten to the point where my kids and my husband know if we're at a garden store. They try and steer me away and remind me I have. I don't have any more room, somebody tackle mom.

Speaker 1: 16:48

Yeah, hey, I could think of a worst hobby. I could think of a worst career. I could think of a worst way to spend my time. I could think of so many other things that you know. And as far as like money drains, gardens aren't the worst, right exactly exactly you know you could be like hey, baby, we're gonna. You know, blah, blah, blah. Put on another, put another barn up for something, right? I want stone walls everywhere to the tune of fifty thousand dollars a foot, or whatever.

Speaker 2: 17:29

But yeah, no, I think it's.

Speaker 1: 17:32

I think it's funny because, as I've been doing this series and talking to students and former students, I think I think the defining like common thread is like.

Speaker 1: 17:46

They almost felt like okay, this was chosen for them it's like okay, this is like, this is what we want you to do now and you know some. Oh, you fight it and oh, is this? I remember when I said to my husband, yeah, so like, look, I I'm going to do this Like and I'd had an herbal business that was pretty successful. And when I was like I'm going to go, he's like is anybody going to want that, cause nobody else is online doing it. Like, him and my brother were just like you're insane. And now they're like, yeah, well, yeah. And now they're like, yeah, well, yeah, you know, but it's like you just don't really have.

Speaker 1: 18:27

I think it's like there's some professions. I feel that like, really like a librarian. I think if you're a librarian, you were called by the books. I'm like in some fantasy world. I'm like I would have loved you. You know it's like one. You know painters, I think, have that to. You know it's like one. You know painters, I think, have that passion too. And herbalist, so I love that. That your family has to bait and switch and set traps for you at the plant stores oh yeah, oh yeah. There's not enough room in the trunk. So how did you start and why did you start your herbal business. I know that you were a successful birth worker and that you still are, but how did you transition into having an herbal business, was it? You felt there was like a need that wasn't being met, or clients wanted something for you or from you, or were they just taking like the most dangerous kind of weird things and you're like, no, we've got to put a stop to this. Like what was? What was your motivation?

Speaker 2: 19:30

um all of the above um well, this is true.

Speaker 2: 19:39

Well, what I was finding was, you know, usually I was recommending you know how, how do we up your nutrition, your mineral content? And I would suggest different things. And usually I was getting stared at like I had four heads, right, right, and you know, that's great if you're buying the grocery store brand pregnancy teas, but the reality is you're only getting a tiny amount. Yeah, I have a lot of thoughts on that. Some of the midwives I work with, who have great herbal knowledge, you know, they're passing out maybe one or two or three herbs put together and it just it tastes horrible, right, right, some herbs just taste like grass. That that's the reality. Or ass, exactly, Exactly. And so how then do you try and persuade women? Hey, in your really busy day, when you're already feeling not so great, I want you to drink grass.

Speaker 1: 20:50

You know two times a day You're not going to have compliance, then it's all about compliance right and making things easy for people.

Speaker 2: 20:58

I love that. So that's kind of where it started was. I'm just going to start experimenting and I did a lot of research on what was safe and what would build confidence. You know, what are the building blocks of minerals and herbs and like how do we blend this that makes women want to sit down and drink it? And that's that's basically where it started.

Speaker 2: 21:26

It started with my own clients of being like I had this prenatal tea, great, I had a baby, here's your postpartum tea. And then starting to hear from them well, what do I do to keep my immune system up? And then so it just started kind of spiraling, um, and then it got to the point like, okay, this has to be sustainable. I can't, you know when you with free herbal teas. Yeah, that can't happen anymore. So it really branched out of that.

Speaker 2: 22:06

I never thought I wanted to do retail. That was not the goal. I don't even know if that still is the goal, but it just came to the point where I'm like hey, if I'm going to be able to help more people, and there were certain providers that were asking to like hey, you know, I just had so and so in for their prenatal appointment. They really enjoy your tea blends. Can I start selling them in my office or recommend to them? So it just came out of a necessity, of I guess there's a need. So I'm going to branch into this for now and see where it takes me.

Speaker 1: 22:50

Yeah, I mean, I think that. So I think a lot of people feel like oh well, there's so many herbal products out there, right, someone's not going to want mine, right?

Speaker 1: 23:01

right, they can just go to the store or whatever, and I think that the the unique thing about herbalism is that people trust you and then your product. Where we trust the product, and then we fantasize the owner, about the owner of the business in other industries. Right, we're like, oh, we're gonna buy this product. And then we'll be like, oh yeah, their ceo is like such a guru or whatever right and they put them up on a pedestal where I think, like herbalist, you have to trust the herbalist first, because we're often making things just for you.

Speaker 1: 23:37

We're listening to you and there's that kind of custom thing going on, or the custom you know, even if you're not making a custom product for someone, you're really focusing on what you're seeing in your community. So there's a lot of clients who are anemic or whatever right. You have like this ability to you know, serve them all right and in a way that is helpful and beneficial and creates trust between you. And I think people forget that so much of herbal product purchasing is really a trust-based relationship because we think, oh, we'll just get it off of amazon and lots of people do and there's nothing wrong with buying. You know, I'm not saying that, but I am saying like I, whenever I'm talking with like herbalists who are starting out with businesses or have young businesses, I'm like don't forget the importance of that. And it sounds like people were trusting you and asking you for stuff before you were even ready, right, and you're still like oh, I know it's, it's, it's.

Speaker 2: 24:45

You know that's part of the journey, right? You have no idea where you're going to end up and retail is not anything I thought I would end up with, but you know, the doors keep opening. I just had a local market where I buy a lot of my herbs from, say you know, can you just bring them in here and we'll sell them for you? Yes, I can. Yes, will you pay me fairly and equitably Cause, then I definitely will.

Speaker 2: 25:13

Yeah, which makes it more accessible. Then, right, you know someone might not want to pay for shipping, and I get that. I'm pretty cheap too. I hate paying for shipping. So you know, now I have a place where I can point people hey, I might not be your doula, but and so I can't deliver it to you and you don't want to pay shipping on the website? Great, here's your local market that you can go buy these teas, and so for me I think it's the helper inside of me is like great. It just provides more access to what is going to be helpful to these communities.

Speaker 1: 25:52

I love that. And I think the thing is is sometimes you just want to buy something you see in the store, right, you're like that looks pretty, I want it, you know. Or that that looks like it'll help, right. And I think sometimes, you know, I always say like sometimes people don't realize that they want something until they see it. You know, we have so many things like just I mean the amount of money that as a culture we just spend on total crap every day, right, you know. And then it's like there's something good there and you have to be able to find a way through the noise to find the good, and sometimes people need to be able to touch and see that, and being in, you know, your local shops is an awesome way to do that. So how did you transition from birth to the herbal world?

Speaker 2: 26:44

so I'm doing both right now we're transitioning yeah, yeah, I mean I really thought that.

Speaker 2: 26:56

You know, I was naive when I walked into birth work. I really got into it because I wanted to help families, I wanted to educate and I wanted to teach them how to advocate, and that came out of my own personal issues with the healthcare field of learning. You know, these providers aren't bad guys, but they they need to remember they're dealing with an individual, and so that's why I got into birth work is I wanted to teach families. You are an individual and you can't ask questions and you can't advocate.

Speaker 1: 27:29

And so I reached a point where I mentioned, I have to swim a lot.

Speaker 2: 27:48

Yeah Right. That's why I was like that's amazing, can I? Can I come over here and swim Like?

Speaker 1: 27:54

it's either going to be that or drinking, so I better get in the pool, right, I would recommend swimming Right.

Speaker 2: 27:59

That's why I spend time.

Speaker 1: 28:04

no, but I mean like. No, I mean it does. That is something you know. We talk a lot about burnout in the birth world, right, yeah, um, but you know the fact that we're constantly our health is constantly being potentially, you know, like body mechanics and hurting our backs and knees, and I cracked my sacrum at a birth once um years ago, um, you know, I mean, and I finished and then I went to the Martin's. Oh, yeah, right, because you have that adrenaline.

Speaker 2: 28:42

Well, you can't leave.

Speaker 1: 28:43

Yeah, and I didn't know it was cracked. At the time I just thought I really hurt my butt. But I mean, like you, you don't, you don't realize those things Right. Or we're driving home in the middle of the night after being up for 48 hours or 30, 12 hours even, you know, and and I think that not enough is spoken about in the birth community about that so I love that you brought that up and that you know. Yeah, we got to take care of ourselves too, right, yeah?

Speaker 2: 29:14

It was just a reality. After six years of I, I have to find a better pace and I can't rely on being on call constantly. I still there's still aspects of it. I love, I love, I love the like, building relationships and the educating. But as I get older, it really is a thing. I mean to try and recover from a birth that you know a long, 24 hour birth, and I have to recover. That's, that's days. Days of me like limping around and feeling in a fog.

Speaker 1: 29:53

My kids used to drive matchbox cars over my body while I was trying to like just get a little bit of not really sleep because there was no one else home but me and the kids laying there and they're putting on some Scooby-Doo 20 minutes. No, it's true. It's true. What is so? What is the favorite, your favorite thing about being an herbalist?

Speaker 2: 30:28

That's a really good question, I think. I mean it sounds really simple. I like helping people figure out how to be more in tune with their bodies in a natural way. Nothing gets me more excited than someone coming up to me and asking me hey, I have these symptoms, and being able to help puzzle piece. After hearing health history and you know, the catalog of herbs in my head starts rolling of oh, I bet that would be helpful and that would be helpful. And then just being able to sit down and really get creative and start crafting.

Speaker 2: 31:16

I'm finding I really, really enjoy that part, and I think that's the part that really correlates into my birth work as well. I used to love I still do. I still love sitting down with new. I work with a lot of moms who my niche, I would say is a lot of moms who have had some form of trauma Sometimes that looks like prior birth trauma, some form of trauma, sometimes that looks like prior birth trauma and so being able to sit with them and just hear what they're currently experiencing and the story behind that and helping them puzzle piece, this is how we get to the other side. So I think it's interesting that that is the part of herbalism I'm loving the most Sure, I love, I love, you know, putting the teas together and bagging them up and putting the little labels on. Sure, that's fun right now but I know that's not going to sustain me. I think what's going to sustain me is that continual listening to people's stories and helping them see the big picture and and help them.

Speaker 1: 32:24

So it sounds like in your herbal work and your birth work, education and connection are two really important things for you. Yeah, I think so. I love that. I love that. So what are your herbal herbal goals?

Speaker 2: 32:39

um to finish this program, yes, um, it is taking quite some time um it is 3 500 pages of content it is a lot. I actually I was like I'm just gonna show you. I like I I know no one can see it on the podcast, but like that's okay, I will.

Speaker 1: 33:01

Oh, is that your materia medica? This?

Speaker 2: 33:05

is no. This is all of the like words and definitions I was finding. I would read through it and I don't know if it's something about. I turned 40 last year and I don't know if it's like a switch in your brain, like you can no longer retain information as easy, but I would get to the quizzes and I'd be like why, why can't I remember any of this? So I just went back old school and I'm doing flashcards and it's taking longer than I thought, but it's good for my kids to see I homeschool and so they're seeing. Like you know, not everything comes easy. Sometimes you really have to work at it. So it's been a good, it's been a good journey for them to watch.

Speaker 1: 33:52

I think it's really cool when kids get to see their parents like go and achieve goals. I remember when I was pregnant with my first child, I read a study saying that boys are more confident and have more like quote success as far as like happiness, success if they see their mother achieve their goals and if their mother goes to school. And so as soon as he was born I finished my bachelor's degree with him on my lap. But I mean like it was just like one of these things. I was like okay if I can't do anything else because we homeschooled too. So I know that there's this balance of like trying to run a business, going to births, homeschooling, especially when they're little.

Speaker 1: 34:49

You know, oh, you're going to see some stupid babies, you know, you know that kind of stuff Right. And then, like you know, the other thing is why the ladies always hug you in a grocery store. Oh yeah, it was at their birth, you know. The other thing is why the ladies always hug you in a grocery store.

Speaker 2: 35:02

Oh yeah, it was at their birth. You know who's that, who's that, don't worry about it. No more hippies, yeah.

Speaker 1: 35:11

So I definitely, I definitely get the whole like. I think it's so important for them to see us, our children, to see us as human beings, you know, like to see us whole and achieving things and letting them realize too that us achieving our goals doesn't mean that we're any less of a parent to them or loving to them, or, you know, I think it's really cool. I love, I loved homeschooling. I thought it was great.

Speaker 2: 35:43

I probably loved it more than my kids did, but I think I tried to do the thing they weren't having it, but uh, so what do you feel like is um, oh well, did we finish going over your goals?

Speaker 1: 36:05

I think I interrupted you, didn't I?

Speaker 2: 36:07

No, we probably didn't. Other than finishing the program, I think I realized this year I'd really like to find a local. I'm hoping a local mentor.

Speaker 1: 36:20

Nice.

Speaker 2: 36:31

Nice, just because a big thing for me with my blends, you know I had. I had someone ask me once. They messaged me on Instagram and they said you don't use a lot of fancy herbs in your blends. And it made me laugh because I'm like well, who gets to say what's fancy and what's not?

Speaker 1: 36:45

But you know there's some like red raspberry leaf that's out there like excuse me, are you kidding?

Speaker 2: 36:53

I'm so fancy, I got thorns and a merry crown, yep, and.

Speaker 2: 36:59

But I want. I want people to have access to this stuff Like I want them to be to fall in love. I know this sounds crazy. I want them to fall in love with that postpartum tea that they're like. I really loved the look and the smell and the taste of that. I wonder if I can recreate it. Great Everything in there you can grow locally in your garden. So I want to be able to find a mentor locally that is on the same page and just be able to bounce ideas off of them and get to hear what other people are seeing in this community and how we can continue the education. I haven't been real successful yet in finding that person, but I have to believe they're somewhere.

Speaker 1: 37:49

I think it's hard because I think, like in the birth world, people assume that if you are wanting guidance or collaborative guidance or whatever you want to call it, that you're out to get their business. Yeah, you're out and it's. It's sad because, um, well, it's just sad there. Have you looked at the um, uh, american herb society? I think it is has chapters around the country, or American. I'll see if.

Speaker 2: 38:25

I can email me and I know there's groups or you should start one.

Speaker 2: 38:32

I know I did think about that. My husband reminds me there are so many hours in the day. Yeah, no, but that that is a real thing. And so I have been hesitant to reach out to even like people that are within like a two to three hour radius Because, like you were saying, I hear that a lot in the birth world.

Speaker 2: 38:53

I try and always make it a point, like if a newer birth worker reaches out to me, I don't live in that scarcity mindset, so I'm going to pick up your call, we're going to talk on the phone, I'm going to answer your questions, because the reality is I have so much birth work that I have to refer out to people at this point and I also don't want to be on call for the rest of my life. So I'm excited when people recognize the good job that I'm doing and ask those questions. So I've I've been a little fearful of reaching out just because I don't. I don't want other herbalists to, I guess I'm afraid to find out if they have that scarcity mindset, because I know we won't be a good fit, because the goal is to educate and help each other.

Speaker 1: 39:41

Yeah, yeah, it's, it's hard. I feel like like, um, I always feel like such an oddball in the herbal world and I think that I am because I just I just think of things differently. I'm always like solution-based and how can we get to the other side of this and I don't care what other people are doing? So, you know, like I don't, I don't look at other schools websites or you know, it's like I think, you know, I think I have like a lecture. That's like if you spend all day looking at your competitions websites and what they're doing, you're not spending time on yourself. So I'd rather honestly be swimming, like you know, dealing with what someone else is doing and thinking. But I think that because it's become such a cash business, like a billion dollar industry, right, I think that when that happens, we lose some of the other stuff. I think you're going to find someone soon.

Speaker 2: 40:45

Yeah, I have to. So just real quick on that. I just wanted to let you know I, when you offered to have me on the podcast, I went through and listened to like all of your episodes. I was really excited because podcasts are a real thing for me. Driving in the middle of the night to a birth that's what keeps me awake and hearing your origin story was like a breath of fresh air. It was the reality of oh, I'm not the only one that feels like this. I'm not the only one that feels like I don't fit in in this community, and so I just wanted you to know like I just really appreciated you sharing that part of your story, because I do think it's this this is all needed to help bring in everyone and so they don't get stuck in this, this fear based mentality or, you know, feeling like they don't fit in so that they can't do this work.

Speaker 1: 41:47

Yeah, that always like I almost cry sometimes when someone calls me and they're like I've always wanted to be an herbalist. I found, your course, I'm not sure if, like, I'm the right kind of person and I'm like, well, what, what do you mean? Right, do you want to study herbs? Yeah, that's all you need to be. But I don't do this or I don't do that, I don't practice this, or like who cares? You know who cares. Like we need, you know we and I learned this lesson really really early on about how herbalists are in a tight. I think it was like in 2001, 2002, a group of truck drivers called. One of them called and they wanted. They ordered the program for a group of them and they would talk about their homework over the cb and they'd mail in their homework, right?

Speaker 1: 42:46

love it and it just blew my mind because I was like I'm, you know, so young still at this point. I mean, I'm not even 30, right, and I'm like, I'm like wait, so you don't have like, okay, so I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm with them, right, the motorcycles, the truck drivers, the people who follow the grateful dead, the people who've worked in restaurants and been waiters and waitresses, people have written books and people who, you know, tried to make a slip cover for their own sofa family. You know, like those are my people, like regular, normal people. Yes, but the herbal world can be hard sometimes and I think we don't talk about it because it's painful. It's painful to feel like you can go to an event or a conference and not feel like you belong in that space, and that's what I hear from students all the time.

Speaker 1: 43:40

Yeah, I just didn't feel like I belonged. People were looking at me funny, I didn't have the right clothes. And I'm like there is no right clothes, right you were, you naked? No, you probably fine. And then half of those conferences, nobody care anyways.

Speaker 2: 43:55

Right, I'm naked guy.

Speaker 1: 43:57

Okay, you know, and, and, and it's, it's a huge. It's a huge lesson to us, because we are doing what society is doing to us. As a community, we're saying these people don't fit, these people don't belong, and that's what you know. At least I feel society does to us every day, right? Right Tells us everything that's wrong with us and why we can't be in a space, and I'm tired of it. So I appreciate you saying that.

Speaker 2: 44:28

Thank you, I know, I kind of went on there, but.

Speaker 1: 44:30

No, that's great, it's hard. It's hard to to. I guess. Stay in original Just be yourself. Even when it clearly you know it's not always the best, but no so I'm I would have never thought that you. Clearly you know it's not always the best route, but no so I would have never thought that you would feel like that.

Speaker 2: 44:52

So, yeah, I mean, imposter syndrome is a real thing, right? I mean, six years into birth work I have to turn away the amount of families that inquire every week and I still am like, am I good at this? You know what I mean. And now you know, now working in the herbalist field and having having a market approach me to have my blends, and I'm like yeah maybe I should redo my labels. They you know what I mean Just like dumb stuff, the stuff we tell ourselves right, yeah.

Speaker 2: 45:26

And you know it's the reality of. I just need to stop. You know a lot of people will say to me how do you not care? You just look like you don't care. You look like you're pretty calm and I'm like well, come, come talk to my husband First of all.

Speaker 1: 45:42

I'm sure he'll give you the point. My best friend knows it all.

Speaker 2: 45:47

The reality is you don't know what's going on in someone's brain and I think I've learned that in the birth world and also the herbalism community is like you might look like you play the stereotypical part of that herbalist, but you're probably feeling just as crazy inside as everyone else. So I think that's true, right. The goal is just just to be yourself, and when I'm in that zone and I'm being myself and I'm pushing all the other influences out, I'm thriving yeah, yeah so people are going to connect with you because you're just you, yeah, yeah, and there is no just about it.

Speaker 1: 46:28

But there isn't any other place to go. Exactly, you're all they're going to get. There's no, there's no fake, there's no, and I think people need that more than you know, you hear all this you know buzzword, authentic and this and that you know all that kind of stuff all the time, right, but the reality is, is that the people actually do need that? Yeah, they do. You know we have businesses that are like oh, yeah, sorry, we put lead in that, like, oh, since when was lead allowed in a drinking cup?

Speaker 1: 47:01

or in crayons or in, you know, in a drinking cup or in crayons or in you know why are we putting melamine in infant formula? Like you know, we have all these things that are lying to us. So when people know that, okay, I may not always say what you want to hear right, but I'm definitely not going to lie to you.

Speaker 2: 47:20

I may not have the best filter, but you're going to love me at the end of the day for the best email voice.

Speaker 1: 47:24

I'm told I am called via email and I'm like I just answer the question. I don't mean to sound like a you know, like you sound like that you're so mean. I'm like no, the answer was no, oh my god. I just said nope, that's okay, you know. And I'm like, oh, okay, you know. But the reality is, is that you can't? You know, if I started writing these really flowery emails? They're like she's lying, something's wrong.

Speaker 2: 47:51

I'd be like it's just an.

Speaker 1: 47:55

SOS, you know. So I think people need that. I love that you offer that to people. So tell us a little bit more about the kind of products you have and where people can find you.

Speaker 2: 48:09

Sure, well, um, right now, all of the blends um on my website, which is birthwayherbscom, is specifically for families. They're safe for pregnancy and breastfeeding and if there's a blend that goes up there because maybe it was a custom blend that lots of people are asking for, and if it's, if there's something in there that's not safe, it will say on that. It's very clear the labeling. But right now it's prenatal and postpartum teas. I have one for um tea for after cesareans.

Speaker 1: 48:51

herbal bath blends Um yeah, so it's not just teas.

Speaker 2: 49:01

That, yeah, they, uh, that's the only one, that really. Uh, I did an elderberry kit you know when. I first launched just because everyone was. I mean, you know, it was the dead of winter when I decided like I guess I'll put this website up, yeah, Um, and that's all anyone wanted, and you know that's a trendy thing too. It's like, you know, everyone's, everyone wants their elderberry. I love elderberry, so that was the only like. I would say massively non, you know it did.

Speaker 1: 49:31

It didn't really go with the theme of the website, but it worked, so I'm waiting for bilberry to have its moment in the sun oh yes bilberry syrup. I love all different kinds of berries, like I just think they're the most amazing medicine, and so I'm always excited when people like come up with stuff and you know, all right that might that might be on the list.

Speaker 2: 49:58

I have like the running whiteboard of just. You know, as things pop in my head, I'm like, oh, I'm gonna, that'll be like my next. You know, as things pop in my head, I'm like, oh, I'm going to, that'll be like my next.

Speaker 1: 50:05

You know, fun thing to experiment with yeah, yeah, lots and lots of fun. Um, I am so grateful that you joined us today. Thanks, do you have?

Speaker 2: 50:15

a Facebook page, um, only for my birth work, so everything on. How can people?

Speaker 1: 50:21

who want you to do birth work for them.

Speaker 2: 50:23

Find you or if they want to consult with you. Yeah, so it's birthway doulacom, birthway, birthway doula on Instagram and Facebook and in all of those formats you can link directly to my herbal site as well. Like, all is intermeshed right now.

Speaker 1: 50:45

So awesome. Thank you so much for being here today. Yeah, thank you, I really appreciate it. I can't wait to hear about more of your journey, so I may be circling back to you a few months and getting an update and, uh, yeah, please keep doing the work you do.

Speaker 1: 51:05

It's so needed and it's so necessary and, um, I think every, every community would benefit from having a you on the block. So, thank you for all that you do. Thank you all right. Well, thank you so much. Thanks for listening everyone, and have a wonderful, wonderful day.