Resilient and Rising: Women Leading the Way

Ever felt like your voice is getting lost in the crowd?

In this episode, Ashlie and Whitney share their personal stories of overcoming gender biases in leadership roles. This episode dives into the emotional and psychological challenges they've faced, how they've turned obstacles into opportunities, and the strategies they've employed to rise above adversity.

From leaning on supportive spouses to applying positive psychology and setting strong boundaries, Ashlie and Whitney offer practical advice for anyone navigating similar struggles. Tune in to hear their inspiring journey of resilience and empowerment.

Listen For:
07:42 - Balancing Emotions and Professionalism
14:44 - The Importance of Support Systems
20:08 - Using Positive Psychology in Leadership
33:20 - Maintaining Mental Health in High-Stress Roles

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Transcript

Ashlie Marshall (00:02):

What I was giving out in terms of ideas and strategies and things to move us forward were a getting ignored and then a month later getting talked about as if it was a brand new idea or topic, which I picked up on pretty quickly. And instead of, I am not going to lie, I did look for other opportunities.

(00:36):

Okay. So hey y'all. Hello, C-Suite Chicks. Welcome back. Thanks for joining us. Whitney here.

Whitney Ramirez (00:44):

Hi.

Ashlie Marshall (00:44):

and myself. And today we're talking about, I think it might be a very touchy subject for a lot of our listeners, maybe all of them, I don't know, but it may be a touchy topic for you. It has been a touchy one for me in the past. I've had very strong emotional feelings about it over the years, but I feel as I've gotten older, I view it differently, and maybe we'll get into that, but we're talking about a major challenge or adversity that Whitney and I have faced. We were asked a question by our team, our production team, who said, tell us about arising from the Ashes story. So that's what we're talking about today. Whitney and I kind of talked about it on Tuesday and the topic we felt that we have faced the biggest challenge with over the last five years, but really in essence probably our whole lives, is the realization that our voice as women in our roles has not always been as loud as the male counterparts. Not just in our team, but just in our environment.

Whitney Ramirez (02:08):

And I know we're saying challenge, but I also want to give the perspective too that I do see it as well as the opportunity because it's like these are our roles. They're not anyone else's. And so it's like it is what you make it in a way too.

Ashlie Marshall (02:24):

That's very true. That's a really great perspective. Yeah.

Whitney Ramirez (02:29):

Yeah. I was like, it is a challenge. Sure, everything is a challenge in life, but it's also an opportunity.

Ashlie Marshall (02:37):

It is. Every challenge is an opportunity. I feel like that's why we are where we are, because everything that we've run into that has been something to be like, oh, throw my hands up. I quit. And which I almost did not too long ago, but well, a while ago, but I instead turned it on and said, okay, I'm going to take this challenge head on. So I'm just going to go through some questions that we were asked in terms of this specific challenge, and we're just going to flow through it like that. So the first question is, we answered already, which was, what was that challenge? Right? Realizing that as women, our seat at the table was not as trusted, it was not as heard. Even if we were screaming at the top of our lungs, we were not as heard as others in the room that were male and their voices were actually uneducated and lying. And what else can we say about those voices?

Whitney Ramirez (03:54):

Well, I mean, I just kind of think back to a good example for me is I came into the CEO role. It'll be three years this year, or no, it'll be

Ashlie Marshall (04:07):

Three years. Three years at the end of the year

Whitney Ramirez (04:08):

Who, yeah, at the end of the year. But even to this day, I will get reached out to, but I'm not the only one copied on it. It's a question directed to Sean who's the previous CEO, and he's still the owner and founder. We all know that. And our client, some of our clients still know that, but he's still getting reached out for questions when he hasn't been a part of the day-to-Day operation in three years. Well over three years. Over three

Ashlie Marshall (04:45):

Years.

Whitney Ramirez (04:46):

Sean also realizes that too. And I mean, he's even said it. He's like, I realize that women face some hurdles and he sees it. He's in an industry where it's very male dominated, and we work with an industry that's very male dominated. So I mean, he is so the day-to-day where he's like, I genuinely can't answer you on this. Thanks for including me, but Whitney's going to answer this and that's great. But it is a part of me is like, why are you still asking him? Is it because you think he knows a better answer than me or just because you think that if or you're going to get special treatment? I don't know. It's just kind of odd to me that he still gets to ask things over me in a way.

Ashlie Marshall (05:41):

I think the interesting part about that example that you're using is that it's not just on his phone. He gets included in emails from

Whitney Ramirez (05:51):

Certain people, emails and texts.

Ashlie Marshall (05:53):

The email includes their main point of contact. It includes you or both of us and him. And I'm just so curious. I guess I would have a question for somebody listening. If you're listening and the answer to this, please leave it in the notes. Please send us a message. Because why do people do that? Are you including all of these people because you are angry, frustrated, upset? You think you're going to get a quicker answer because everybody's on the email. I'm not understanding that. And that's more so not even just a male female thing that is a explain it to me thing.

Whitney Ramirez (06:40):

And then sometimes I'm like, okay, I'll take a step back. And I'm like, I shouldn't be that frustrated or I shouldn't have any, I shouldn't be second guessing this so much. Because I also, I mean, I have someone who I'm working with right now that copies her boss,

(07:03):

And it's more of my boss is copied, so make sure you have a good response to me. And it's like, I'm going to respond to you the same way, whether your boss is on it or not. Exactly. And your boss is who I started this deal with, and so I have no, it doesn't scare me. Or maybe it's an intimidation factor and maybe it's like, Hey, my, I genuinely appreciate his insight. And so it's like I try to think of that too, and it's like, okay, maybe this is nothing, and then you just kind of got to let it roll off. Sometimes

Ashlie Marshall (07:42):

I would agree with that. And that's when we started this and I was like, as Ive gotten older, I've had a different perspective of it. That's part of it. So you're kind of getting there. The second question is, why did we keep going? What motivated us to continue the journey? Even though we recognize that challenge? And I think Whitney and I have similar answers with different reasons. So go ahead.

Whitney Ramirez (08:08):

Yeah. Well, when Ashley first asked me that, I'm like, okay, this topic is so broad and generic in a way, and it's like, okay, you want to hear about adversity at face? I'm like, I could give you a million things. And it's like in my view, it's like, what else am I going to do? Give up? I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to let other people win what they want. So I'm like, okay, I'll do it out of pure spite. I'll prove to you that I can do this. I know I can. It brought me to another example, and we can get to that in a second, where we used to have someone in a role doing sales, and I was frequently helping him with sales, and he wasn't tracked

Ashlie Marshall (08:59):

Were you? And

Whitney Ramirez (08:59):

Nobody was on him.

Ashlie Marshall (09:00):

I'm not sure you were helping. Well, you were helping, but you were getting it done.

Whitney Ramirez (09:08):

Yeah, I was part of the pitch every time because he knew no technicalities in terms of what services we offered. He only had one thing to sell, and it wasn't even part of our service. So, okay, well, I'll sell the service for you so we can have actual clients. But then I'm now in a business development role, and as CEO, I am a very active CEO in the fact that I'm fully focused on this business growing and scaling and leading it to success and making sure employees are happy and making sure we have employee retention, client retention, and client growth and employee growth. And all of that is on me now, and I'm holding myself accountable, but I also have the team holding me accountable because in a way, if I'm not doing my job, we can't grow. And so there's so much more accountability compared to what he had in his lackluster sales efforts. And it's just like, do it, do the work. It's what hard. I don't know. I love

Ashlie Marshall (10:33):

How polite you are. I love that. That's the difference between you and me also. Okay. So what I want to point out is your reference to in spite of, I feel like that truly speaks to the part of you that I kind of knew was there, but I didn't know how deep it was. Was your stubbornness, like you being stubborn? And I love that. I feel like the more I've seen it out of you, the more I love it in you and a part of you that's just near and dear to my heart. But similarly, I feel like I do feel like we were recognizing this at the same time, but we also weren't communicating the way that we do now. And so I'm sure you felt very alone in it as well as I did. I felt very alone in the fact that I could tell that what I was giving out in terms of ideas and strategies and things to move us forward were a getting ignored.

(11:33):

And then a month later getting talked about as if it was a brand new idea or topic, which I picked up on pretty quickly. And instead of, I am not going to lie, I did look for other opportunities, but I'm also very devout my faith. And I kept hearing a voice say, no, keep at it. No, keep at it. Don't give up on this opportunity. Keep at it. And so I did. And my child just walked in, sorry. And I kept at it and I just kept hearing, you're making a difference. You're making a difference, you're making a difference. And the first time I realized that we were making a difference was when one of our employees took another opportunity but left it, took an exit interview with another one of our team members, and he had kind words to say about the way that I managed him and the way that I led him.

(12:43):

And that was the first time where I was like, oh, it's working. I know what I'm doing and I'm helping other people. Whereas Whitney was very much doing it for the team and doing it because she knew she could. I probably knew I could, but I didn't want the fight. And I'm really glad that I stayed in the fight because I learned that I am making a difference and then I am helping people, and then I am teaching them the lessons that I learned and their lessons are not being learned the hard way mine were. So I take solace in that, and that's why I kept going. That's what motivated me was probably a little bit of faith and maybe a little bit of, I know I can do it, so we're just going to keep at it.

Whitney Ramirez (13:33):

I think I saw the growth in myself too.

Ashlie Marshall (13:37):

That is 100% true.

Whitney Ramirez (13:39):

I realized how effective I became at problem solving and communication and how much I was able to pull from my psychology degree and how to work with different personalities. And I really learned how much I was capable of at the same time. And I also didn't want to give that up. I was learning so much, and I knew that a lot of important life skills were improving for me.

Ashlie Marshall (14:13):

I think that's a huge part of it. And I think you recognize that in yourself before I did, because you talked about this, but yeah, we both hit it at different points in time. So the next part, our next question is, did we have a support system? And if we did, how did they help you? So yes, Whitney, who is our support system? Well, who is your support system? Let's go with that.

Whitney Ramirez (14:44):

Well, I think it's obviously my husband was a huge support. I didn't have a hard day at work, and he was just always reassuring. And that was super helpful for me. Just hear it once in a while that you are still doing a good job. Even if you have a bad day, you're still doing good. But then another thing that really supported me was just knowing that we had so many people kind of depending on us in a way. No, it's not technically support, but it was just I wanted so bad for the team to benefit from me pushing forward. And so that was supportive to me because it was another level of accountability for me. But it was also like, if I can do this, I will feel fulfilled because these people will be fulfilled and it would attribute to continued success for everyone.

Ashlie Marshall (15:49):

You would be contributing to creating opportunities for others, not just yourself. So yes, agree. My husband was also supportive. Anytime I was like, oh, yeah, even though I think his support and Oscar's support are very different, my husband would be like,

Whitney Ramirez (16:11):

D yeah, Dwayne would be mad for you.

Ashlie Marshall (16:14):

Who we beating up today? Who's getting slapped? Which is very much how I would respond to him as well. So it's equivalent. But all jokes aside, he was very supportive and he would listen to me when I would vent, and sometimes I would pre-prepare him for my venting and be like, don't give me solutions. Just listen to me gripe. And he would be like, okay. But he also very much so wants to, a husband always wants to help or protect or provide solutions, and Dwayne's very much a solution oriented person. So he was always trying to provide solutions, which was also helpful. Sometimes that got my mind flowing in a different way, and it actually did produce an idea that we were able to implement or something we were able to test out to try and get a better outcome. But I think also,

Whitney Ramirez (17:09):

And he's an engineer, so of course you can't ask an engineer. You can't complain without them giving you some sort of solution.

Ashlie Marshall (17:19):

Yep. It's a hundred percent true. And then I am very much in alignment with your thought of the team. The team was a motivating factor, and it did feel like a support system, even though we tried to create a buffer and we tried to take the hit on all of the frustrating situations, conversations, situations, and we did that for the health and the culture we were trying to build. That was a part of the sacrifice we were making to build something great, bigger than ourselves and create those opportunities. And that was helpful. But I also think we had one individual on our team that he was very supportive. He was an objective view, he was able to take conversations when needed. I feel like he also gave us guidance in terms of when we were struggling emotionally or different areas. I think that it was helpful to have those conversations and there was a great season for them. It was a great season for them, especially when we were in those realms of uncertainty and just knowing if we were doing the right thing, are we doing the right thing? Are we fighting the good fight or is this not? And I feel like that person who you are was very helpful in guiding us and helping us get through those challenging situations.

Whitney Ramirez (18:47):

And just getting some more objective third party perspectives is more helpful than anything because sometimes emotions do get mixed in and you're like, okay, what is really the move here objectively? What's a good decision to make?

Ashlie Marshall (19:09):

That's huge. I think that's huge. I mean, your spouse partner, they're

Whitney Ramirez (19:15):

Biased.

Ashlie Marshall (19:16):

They are biased, right? They're a hundred percent biased and for good reason. So Whitney's a hundred percent get someone outside of the situation, not somebody else who works on the team, not somebody else who knows the individuals you're talking about. Somebody completely objective, present all the facts, don't sugarcoat them and don't give what you want to give everything, and you will get some really great feedback. So that's really great piece of advice. People also want to know, were there specific strategies or techniques that we use to overcome our adversity? When we talked about this, and you mentioned it a little bit, you kind of dive into it more. You leaned heavily into your background in psychology to get us through. Talk a little bit about that.

Whitney Ramirez (20:08):

Yeah, I mean, so generally people aren't really thinking from a psychological view when you're working with a group, a mass group of people. But I fully recognize that even when I just initially got into leadership in terms of managing multiple personalities and understanding how to work with people and understanding how to deescalate uncomfortable situations, I took positive psychology. That was one of my favorite classes in college. And it was basically, here's how you can create a positive environment regardless of outside factors. And I took so much from that in, brought it into leadership and learned how to protect the team from negativity. And I learned how to create positive environment. And I also tried super hard too to kind of instill that within myself to where whatever was going on wouldn't fully affect me, would if I hadn't kind of known some of those skills and kind of utilized them as much as I could. Obviously there was really rough days and they're really hard moments. And there's outside factors too, to where it's like positive psychology. I am, I feel terrible. I mean, I dealt with illness and stuff too, so it's, it's not always a solution to kind of lean into that, but I did lean into it heavily.

Ashlie Marshall (21:55):

No, I think for you it definitely, I think it helped you to, at times when I was unable to control my emotional response, you were able to control your emotional response. And

Whitney Ramirez (22:09):

It's not easy. It's just takes so much practice and you have to really know the foundation of it and really sharpen your skills to be able to use it.

Ashlie Marshall (22:21):

Something you said just like boiled right out at me, and it takes practice. But here's the thing. You can't practice a skillset if you're not forced to use it. So if you're avoiding the difficult conversations or you're avoiding the standing up for yourself in a situation where it's very much warranted, you are not practicing your ability to hold your emotion and speak facts. And so I'm not going to say put yourself in those situations, but don't remove yourself from situations where you need to stand up for yourself in a honorable and respectful manner. I mean, I'll always have dad references, my dad speaks all types of wisdom, but my dad always told us as children, you can say anything you want to say in this conversation as long as you say it respectfully. I say that to my children every day. Yeah,

Whitney Ramirez (23:26):

That's a great piece of

Ashlie Marshall (23:28):

Advice.

Whitney Ramirez (23:28):

It's true.

Ashlie Marshall (23:29):

You can say anything at any table that you want to say. If you say it respectfully, it's not what you say. It's how you say it. And I think that is what I leaned into over the course of these last couple of years when we were dealing with realizing our voices weren't loud as others in our realm, and then doing it anyway, and being in those situations anyway and recognizing that we weren't going to be heard, but doing it anyway. This is really what we did was just doing it anyway. I think one thing I also leaned into outside of that was I think we leaned into each other in ways that I knew where you were strong and I knew where you were focusing your efforts. So then I focused my efforts in a completely different realm that was also going to move us forward. And we were going to be building this support system in tandem. I think of that herringbone design, and those things build on top of each other at Aslan, and they lean into each other. And I feel like that's very much how we built Oh, totally. Build the company the last three

Whitney Ramirez (24:50):

Years. Yeah, I mean, it's so true. Ashley is so good at organization and making things flow in terms of setting up good structure for the company and making good financial decisions and organizing that whole situation, playing a lot of cleanup. And I'm really good at sales and marketing and brand building and creativity,

Ashlie Marshall (25:18):

Catchy stuff. Yeah,

Whitney Ramirez (25:20):

Totally. And so they really do

Ashlie Marshall (25:22):

Go in, if you ever see anything catchy with my name on it, Whitney wrote it.

Whitney Ramirez (25:26):

No, not true. You were catchy too. But yeah, I love being creative and I really love the psychology behind sales and what makes people buy and what makes people stay, and that is super interesting to me.

Ashlie Marshall (25:47):

Yeah, yeah. That's a whole nother episode in and of itself. Yeah, we feel very strongly about why people say yes and why people stay. So looking back, what advice would you give to someone facing a similar challenge? But I think before we can answer that, maybe we can give them some helpful hints on how to recognize that that's the issue and that it's not something else that's going on. What would you say would be something that our listener could pinpoint as it's a male female thing or it's not a male female thing, it's an effort situation.

Whitney Ramirez (26:30):

Well, in college, in the science lab, you would always have a control and you'd have a test for every experiment that you did. And so I'd say place yourself in an environment where you get a control. If you have someone that's willing to support you and understanding if that's the issue or not, help them to understand that they need to be your control and say, I need to understand if this person reacts to you the same way that they're reacting to me. And that will give you the answer. As in any experiment, if your control is always staying the same, throw in a test variable and you'll get your answer.

Ashlie Marshall (27:17):

That's true. That's very good advice. For me, I feel as though I always have struggled with the emotional side of things. I'm a highly emotional person, and I think that my initial response to situations is protection in terms of protecting others. Not necessarily protecting myself, but protecting others. And before I was a parent even I still had this motherly instinct to protect those that I cared about. My sister, my parents, my cousin, just in general protection in any form or fashion. And the minute they're wronged or they're treated, mistreated or something like that, you immediately want to have this emotional response. And I feel like I had that emotional response in protection sometimes of you and sometimes of me. It was the first time that I felt like I was trying to protect myself. But in certain situations when I started to notice things, I had a voice that was a friend of mine who just kept saying, if you take your emotion out of the equation, how would you respond if you didn't feel this way towards this person? How would you be responding? That's your response. And if you can remove your emotion from the situation and think about it logically, and then you can see the answer, you'll always see the answer. If you take the way you feel and just remove it to just the basics, just the basic logic. This happened, then this happened, then this happened. How should I respond to that?

(29:14):

That's really hard. Like you said, it takes practice. It took a lot of practice for me.

Whitney Ramirez (29:22):

Yeah, it does. I mean, there's several reasons why I can tune out emotions, and they're not good reasons. It's childhood trauma, and it's heavily focusing in a science degree that is the most unemotional fact-based degree you can get. And I was in that for five years. And so it's like practice alone and learning. This is just how you go through college and it's a very unemotional environment. Yeah.

Ashlie Marshall (30:07):

Well, and therefore you had opportunities to practice. Oh, yeah,

Whitney Ramirez (30:13):

Totally. So

Ashlie Marshall (30:14):

That's Whitney's advice. And my advice, Whitney's, is to find a test and control. Go very scientific. And mine is remove your emotion, look at it logically and see what you see.

Whitney Ramirez (30:27):

I think the empathetic side of me too is I saw a quote where it said, to be successfully employed, to be a successfully self-employed business owner, you have to be comfortable with a level of stress that would destroy most people. And it's so true. The level of stress is absolutely insane. But I also, just from a empath point of view, it's okay if that is not your thing. Some people, I feel, have the natural ability to handle higher levels of stress, handle higher levels of pain and turmoil and for one reason or the other. But if you don't, that's probably a good thing. It probably means you haven't been through shit, real shit. But I don't know. I think it's totally okay if that stress is unmanageable, no one should put themselves through a situation that's absolutely destroying them.

Ashlie Marshall (31:30):

Recognize your limitations. I can put it in terms of when you're working out, I've been teaching my children this. There's a difference between injured pain and growing pain. If you can decipher between the pain that is harming you or the pain that is growing, you stay in that realm of the growing pain. The minute you switch over into the harmful pain, it's time to dip. It is time to dip and recognize that. And if you choose not to stay in the fight, then you have to set up boundaries and barriers to protect your mental health. I think that's the route Whitney and I went. Honestly,

Whitney Ramirez (32:21):

It's a really good piece of

Ashlie Marshall (32:22):

Advice. We stayed in the fight because we knew we could do it, and we knew what we were creating for other people, and we were building that path. But we put up very, very strong barriers and boundaries to one, restore our mental health and then protect it once we got it where it needed to be. So our piece of advice is know the difference between harmful pain and growing pain and make your decision based on where you're at in that realm. And then if you choose to keep at it in the harmful area, restore and protect. Restore yourself and create boundaries to protect yourself.

Whitney Ramirez (33:07):

And if you're struggling with trying to stay positive, I would definitely recommend looking into positive psychology and the foundations of it. It's actually really interesting.

Ashlie Marshall (33:20):

It is, and it works. It works so well. And again, if you are strong in your faith, lean into your faith as well. It will get you where you need to be. It really will. That's our little tidbit about rising from the ashes, what we did, how we did it. If you have questions, let us know. We'll be happy to take your questions and answer them anytime. And if you like this episode, don't forget to leave us a review,

Whitney Ramirez (33:53):

Share with a friend.

Ashlie Marshall (33:53):

Share us with your friends. All right, y'all have a good one. We'll catch you later.