Ben and Bash: Tag Team Talk
Heel Havoc: Wrestling's Master Villains and the Fans Who Love to Hate Them
Prepare to have your perceptions of wrestling's notorious bad guys both confirmed and challenged as we take you on a tour through the treacherous terrain of wrestling's top heels. Your hosts, Ben and Bash, are about to serve up a medley of betrayal, bravado, and the kind of in-ring treachery that'll have you booing at your speakers. We're turning the spotlight on the industry's most despised figures, from the cunning MJF and the conniving Paul Heyman to the fresh havoc wreaked by factions like The Final Testament and the Kabuki Warriors. You'll get an earful about the power plays within Damage Control and whether Iyo Sky or Dakota Kai is the true puppet master behind the chaos. Strap in for a ride through the good, the bad, and the outright villainous in this episode packed with wrestling lore, insider insights, and the heated debates that only true enthusiasts like us can deliver.
Prepare to have your perceptions of wrestling's notorious bad guys both confirmed and challenged as we take you on a tour through the treacherous terrain of wrestling's top heels. Your hosts, Ben and Bash, are about to serve up a medley of betrayal, bravado, and the kind of in-ring treachery that'll have you booing at your speakers. We're turning the spotlight on the industry's most despised figures, from the cunning MJF and the conniving Paul Heyman to the fresh havoc wreaked by factions like The Final Testament and the Kabuki Warriors. You'll get an earful about the power plays within Damage Control and whether Iyo Sky or Dakota Kai is the true puppet master behind the chaos. Strap in for a ride through the good, the bad, and the outright villainous in this episode packed with wrestling lore, insider insights, and the heated debates that only true enthusiasts like us can deliver.
Welcome to the Ben and Bash podcast tag. Team talks.
Speaker 2:I'm Ben.
Speaker 1:I'm Bash. It's time to lace up your boots and hit the mat with the Ben and Bash podcast tag. Team talks.
Speaker 2:All right, this episode here. If you watched last episode, we did top 10 baby faces in wrestling. So we did top 10 baby faces in wrestling. Today we are doing top 10 heels in wrestling my list. If you look at the last list I'm sure it's just like last time I did top 10. All time bash did top 10. Currently they give you a good perspective from a younger wrestling fan to an older wrestling fan. Right, you did yours. Current, mine's more all-time list. We'll see as we go, but let's get down to it.
Speaker 1:Okay For my number 10 in top 10 heels, I got the Final Testament.
Speaker 2:Nice Okay.
Speaker 1:There's not that much reason why they're on here. I just ran out of ideas.
Speaker 2:Just kind of like them a little bit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they have good wrestlers and they're trying to build a name for themselves, so I've got to put them somewhere on the list.
Speaker 2:Attack of people at NXT.
Speaker 2:WWE yeah they're all over the place. So you got number 10? Yep, all right, my number 10. So you got number 10? Yep, all right, my number 10. This guy will eventually probably be higher up on my list as he gets older and gets more experience. But I could not make a top 10 list without putting MJF on there from AEW. I mean he's young, I mean considering. I mean I think he's mid-20s. He's not young, but he's not old either. Has a long time of wrestling ahead of him. I mean, is he going to eventually go to WWE? Is he going to stay with AEW? We're going to wait to see where that goes. But MJF, I got for my number 10 top heels. He can get a crowd going. You're talking about a guy who knows exactly what buttons to push with the crowd. Yeah, he can make them love him, he can make them hate him, but he can definitely make them hate him. I mean, so yeah, mjf is my number 10.
Speaker 1:Is he like hurt or something?
Speaker 2:No, he hasn't wrestled since. He lost to Samoa Joe, and then Adam Cole turned on him.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So he hasn't been around the wrestling since then. He might be hurt. I'm not sure he may be injured. He may be doing some recovering.
Speaker 1:Okay, for my number nine, I have the Kabuki Warrior. No, the Women's Tag Team Champions. The Kabuki Warriors Okay nice Kabuki Warriors Okay. Nice they're number nine because they're in one of the best women's well, no, in my opinion, the best women's faction, at least that I've seen. I haven't seen that many women's factions. But damage control, and I'm talking about, like Bayley Dakota, Oscar, Kyrie and Io that damage control, Not the current damage control Nice Okay. And that's why I put them on this list.
Speaker 2:All right, number nine. My number nine is one of the best managers in history of wrestling, paul Heyman.
Speaker 1:I didn't know we were doing managers.
Speaker 2:We're doing best heels. We didn't say wrestlers best heels, he's in wrestling, right In wrestling history Didn't say top 10 heel. Wrestlers Said top 10 heels in wrestling.
Speaker 2:There you go Like that, you're really like the rest of it, but anyways. So yeah, I got Paul Heyman as my number nine. I mean you're talking about a guy who is probably top five best talkers, if not top two talkers of all time, one of the best managers of all time. He's represented a bunch of different wrestlers, from CM Punk to Brock Lesnar to Roman Reigns. I mean he's been with the Bloodline family members for what's it? 30, 40 years now. I mean he's been all around the world plus some. He started ECW. I mean, yeah, but Paul Heyman, I got number nine, top ten heels of all time.
Speaker 1:That's big For my number eight. I have well now the leader of wait, I guess the leader of damage control, eo Sky.
Speaker 2:Dakota Kai, maybe, yeah, I don't know. I think it's either one.
Speaker 1:Well, she was the former champion.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right. Think it's either one.
Speaker 1:Well, she was the former champion, yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2:You get either one. Yeah, that's right. That sounds about right.
Speaker 1:Um, so, and same thing with the Kabuki Warriors. Um, best women's um faction in history, in my opinion. Um, um, she was the champion, basically the leader. Um, until they turned on Bayley, which Dakota kinda was the leader then, but she did most of the talking because most of the fans are American.
Speaker 2:So Not most of the fans, but Dakota's easy to understand. Yeah, so it's easy to understand what she's saying.
Speaker 1:Yeah, mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:Well, there's fans all over the world. But yeah, I got you.
Speaker 1:So she's basically the mouthpiece.
Speaker 2:That's a good word for it, yep.
Speaker 1:Of damage control.
Speaker 2:Yep, but you got Yosukai as your number eight.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay, anything else about her no. All right.
Speaker 1:I just realized I was talking more about Dakota Kai than you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, you can alternate, it doesn't matter, either one. Yeah, I see, though. All right, my number eight. We talked about Paul Hammond being one of the best managers. My number eight is arguably the best manager in the history of wrestling Bobby DeBrain Heenan.
Speaker 1:Who.
Speaker 2:He was the manager when Andre John fought Hulk. Hogan yeah.
Speaker 1:You know, the guy that was on the. I've heard of his name but I don't remember, like all this stuff about him.
Speaker 2:Yeah, if you watched the Hulk Hogan versus Andre John match for WrestleMania.
Speaker 1:Didn't they have a couple matches?
Speaker 2:Yeah, but don't talk about when he body slammed him. Oh, couple matches, yeah, but don't talk about the WrestleMania when he body slammed him. Oh, the guy that came out with Andre John in that cart, that's Bobby DeBrain Heenan.
Speaker 2:So yeah, bobby DeBrain Heenan is my number eight. You're talking about probably the single greatest manager of all time and just like the, the, the, the baby faces. I don't think Bobby DeBrayne Heenan has ever been a babyface. I think he's always been a heel. I cannot remember a time ever he was a good guy, never. I mean I might be mistaken for that, but I've always seen him associated with, you know, the Andre, the Giants, the King Kong Bundys, the you know the big bad guys of wrestling, why he was wrestling. I mean, I may be mistaken on that, but, bobby, to bring Heenan, I have for my number eight top 10 heel.
Speaker 1:Oh for my seven um. Another tag team Like I. Well, another, not another group um in a town down under. That's a good one. They're my second.
Speaker 2:Oh Well, another group in A-Town Down Under. That's a good one.
Speaker 1:They're my second. Well, they're my favorite heel tag team, but they're my second tag team right now. In general, Got it. It consists of Austin Theory and Grayson Waller, the WWE Wait, the WWE Tag Team Champion that's what it's called now I think so. Um, so that's why I have them on my list.
Speaker 2:Alright, Anything else from the A-Town Downer? No, Alright, my number seven. It's the dirtiest player in the game. Y'all already know who I'm talking about the Nature Boy Woo Rick flair. I mean you talk about a heel of all heels. I mean this guy. I mean he put on, as they call him in now, bangers after bangers, but you love to hate him. I mean he was one of those guys where he would go in there out wrestle your favorite wrestler and then talk about him and then go out partying. I mean nature boy was the heel because he lived the lifestyle that other people dreamed of living. I mean from the way he wrestled, from his lifestyle outside of wrestling. I mean his flair, no puns intended. I mean Nature Boy, Ric Flair, my number seven of all time heels.
Speaker 1:For nine. Number six is probably coming to us as a surprise to you, but the Sotlo Sikoa's MFT Tama Tonga.
Speaker 2:You might know what MFT stands for, yet I don't know what that means yet yeah. I know there's people been speculating online and stuff, but I've never I haven't figured out what MFT means yet. I guess you'll find out here in the coming weeks. Sorry, go ahead.
Speaker 1:Wait what's up. It might be like Nah, that would probably be Paul Heyman. If that's what it stands for, what?
Speaker 2:do you think it stands for?
Speaker 1:Like manager for a tribal chief or something.
Speaker 2:Nah, that's Paul. Yeah, that could be a good one, but we'll see.
Speaker 1:We can see. I think it has something to do with tribal.
Speaker 2:Maybe I don't know. I guess we'll find out in the few coming weeks.
Speaker 1:Maybe we'll not.
Speaker 2:Or maybe not, I don't know.
Speaker 1:They might reveal it when Roman Reigns comes back. Might be like something insulting Roman Reigns.
Speaker 2:If he comes back, he may not come back, though.
Speaker 1:I mean, he's the tribal chief. He has to have that match with the Rock.
Speaker 2:Does he?
Speaker 1:Who else who's going to be the tribal chief?
Speaker 2:I mean the Rock took 11 years off.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Alright. So I'm just saying, who knows what Roman Reigns can do. He might take time off.
Speaker 1:It's probably going to be way more than the Raw.
Speaker 2:Yeah exactly. But yeah, go back to what you were talking about with Tama Tonga.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, I was pretty much finished.
Speaker 2:Okay, so what else? Why are you talking about him?
Speaker 1:Because he is like the MFT for Solo Sokoa. He's in the bloodline, which the bloodline has shrunk very much now.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I mean they did bloody up Kevin Owens pretty bad.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he literally ran into Kevin Owens with the car. How would you not put that on your top 10 heels currently?
Speaker 2:Exactly, that's great. That's a nice heel right there. Can I give it more time to see how much of a heel he can be? My number six, mr Perfect, kurt Hennin. I don't know if Badger was Kurt Hennin.
Speaker 1:Well, I just thought he was called Mr Perfect. I didn't know, it was actually yeah his real name was Kurt.
Speaker 2:Well, his real name was. His name was Mr Perfect Kurt Henn, or Mr Perfect. For a lot of people this guy was a villain. I mean he had the vignettes where he would just do stuff that was like throw a football to himself, hit a home run. Every time he saw a bat, I mean shoot a basket, he made it. I mean he was rubbing to the face of people about how good he was compared to them, like he was just burying them at every single thing you put in front of him. He was perfect, aka mr perfect. I mean he did the whole the towel through behind his back, catch it with the other hand. I don't remember him missing that spot before. But yeah, mr Perfect Kurt Hannon, my number six heel of all time.
Speaker 1:For my five. I picked the only NXT person on my list and the NXT Women's Champion, Roxanne Perez Nice. She lost her title. She was a babyface for a while. Then she just randomly appeared on a random NXT and randomly took out Lara Valkyria. I mean, she had a reason, so it wasn't that randomly, but that's why she's a hero. I don't know why people hate her. She has a good reason to back up why she injured Lara Valcuria.
Speaker 2:She never lost her belt.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And she didn't attack her right at the belt.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm. Lara Valcuria got attacked two times, one by Roxanne Perez and then by Paxley. What's his name? Yeah, tatum Paxley, by Tatum Paxley. That's why I have her on number five, because the crowd hates her.
Speaker 2:That's a good one, my number five. This guy has been both a heel and a babyface but for about a probably two or three year span he was the most hated man in the wrestling for a while. Macho man, randy Savage. Like I said, this guy was loved at one time and then him and Mr Elizabeth I mean he treated her horribly for a while. He dumped her. He joined forces with Sensational Sherry, who was a heel manager as well, and I mean people wanted him to get beat every single time he stepped out there. I mean I mean it wasn't even it was, it wasn't even funny that he wanted that. People wanted him to lose no matter what. But Ultimate Warrior beat him, finally beat him, knocked some system to him. I think he turned babyface after that. But for that short period of time when he was with Sensational Sherry and all that, he was a ultimate heel Macho man. And Rainy Savage is my number four of all time heel personas.
Speaker 1:For my number four, I picked Dirty Dom. That's a good one and he turned on his own father, so have to have him somewhere in the top 10 heels surprise you didn't put him number 1, but that's.
Speaker 2:Number 4 is pretty good though mhm go ahead and he's at number 4.
Speaker 1:He's great heel. He's so booed he can't even get a word out. There was literally a clip and he was booed at his own wedding. That's how much of a heel he is. That's how much of a heel he is and that's why I have him on number four in the top five list.
Speaker 2:Not top five, top ten. That's a good one that it with Dirty Dawn.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:All right. My number four is the legend Killer, randy Orton. When he was doing the Randy Orton, the Legend Killer, randy Orton thing I mean I don't know who likes him at that point in time I mean he was literally kicking legends in the head.
Speaker 1:I mean, I liked him because he was so good at being a heel.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but that's why he got him in the heel, though, because he was literally kicking people in the head. Yeah, but that's why he got him in the heel, though, because he was literally kicking people in the head, knocking them unconscious.
Speaker 1:Ric Flair, remember that? Yeah, during the Cove era.
Speaker 2:Yep, I remember a lot of them that's what I'm saying Before the Cove era, that's about early, early after Evolution. Randy Orton.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know.
Speaker 2:I mean throwing people down flight of stairs, kicking them. I mean RKO and older women in the ring. I mean RKO with celebrities. I mean Randy Orton was the ultimate heel when he was letting killer. Randy Orton, I mean this guy did not care who was in the ring with him, it could be his own dad, he would RKO'd him. I mean he was punt, kicking everybody in the face, rko'd everybody. I mean he was just the ultimate heel at that time. So Randy Orton, I have for my number four heel of all time.
Speaker 1:For my number three, I have the I guess the leader of the bloodline right now, solo Sokova, I guess the leader of the bloodline right now Solo Sokova, Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. He is right now taking the place of Roman Reigns and that's why I have him on three, five more reasons. He attacked his own flesh and blood, his own brother, older brother at that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and Jimmy Uso which still doesn't compare to attacking your own twin brother, but it's like pretty close on the list. Yeah, gotcha. And with MFT Tamatanga, he probably agreed with him running into Kevin Owens with the car. He was probably his idea, mm-hmm, and that's why I have him on my top three for my top ten heels.
Speaker 2:Nice, nice, all right, you done with Solo Mm-hmm. All right, I'm going to go with a guy who was hated for years, the showstopper Shawn Michaels. I mean after the Montreal screw job and the way he did Bret Hart, I don't know anybody who liked Shawn Michaels at that point in time. I mean they literally called Bret Hart the championship and he never lost it. I mean Referee was in on it, vince was in on it. I mean everybodyeree was in on it, vince was in on it. I mean everybody was in on it. And Shawn Michaels was the one who benefited from that. Aka, he lost his smile. For those of you who know. But yeah, shawn Michaels after the Montreal Screwjob was the biggest heel in wrestling and people hated him for that and people still do hate him for that. I mean that was one of the biggest heel, individual heel moves in wrestling history. So that's why I have Shawn Michaels as my number three all-time heel.
Speaker 1:Let's pick For my number two. I got one of the founders of Prime and Logan Paul.
Speaker 2:Everybody's favorite YouTuber.
Speaker 1:Yep and Paul, because he has people in his prime bottle fighting for him like getting hurt, just so he can build back his energy and then eventually win the match. Most likely, except when KSI is in the prime bottle, eyeshow Speed can actually get the job done, nice nice, I've actually never watched Eyeshow. Speed, I shall speak and actually get the job done. Nice, Nice, yeah, Um. I've actually I've actually um never watched. I shall speed. I just seen him on YouTube stuff. I've never watched a whole video of him.
Speaker 2:Makes sense.
Speaker 1:Um and Logan Paul, with those brass knuckles um, a fist made of titanium. He, he, um, he's. He used the brass knuckles in like every one of his matches. He turned, he turned. Heel recent. Well, not recently, kind of recently, but not really.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he's always been. He's been booed since he first stepped foot in wrestling, but yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:He's been a heel for sure. Because he's been a heel for sure because he's been knocking guys out with the brass knuckles. I mean Seth Rollins, randy Kevin Owens, I mean yeah, ricochet, yeah, and he, like everybody, hates him.
Speaker 1:But they got to respect him because, because he can back up his words in that wrestling ring and that's why I have him on number two.
Speaker 2:Nice. My number two. I'm going to go with another old school guy. I mean this guy right here scared kids, jake the Snake Roberts. I mean this guy literally brought a snake to the ring in a bag every single time he wrestled. I mean you had kids that were scared when he went to that bag. I mean he went so far as to have the snake bite Macho man. I mean bend him right in the arm.
Speaker 2:I mean I don't know what other definition you use for a heel. I mean Jake the Snake. I mean he can get the crowd to go against him to boom. I mean he had little Snake. He can get the crowd to go against him to boo him. I mean he had a little kid. When you scare little kids, you're a heel. I don't care how else you want to do it when your little kids are scared of you, just for you having a bag in your hand and Clay knows there's a snake in there and a lot of kids are scared of snakes, especially the big snakes he had. Yeah, so I have Jake the Snake Roberts as my number two heel of all time.
Speaker 1:Okay. So for my number one I got the tribal chief, roman Riggs, and he's a heel because he's my top one. He's my number one heel because every week he just walks in the ring Before he says anything else. He says acknowledge me. And half of the crowd is cheering him and half of the crowd is booing him. And he's such a good heel that even when he was a babyface he was still getting booed, like after he beat the Undertaker. Nobody liked him anymore.
Speaker 2:After he beat the Undertaker he said like one line he got booed so bad. It was like seven to ten minutes of just.
Speaker 1:I think I remember what it was.
Speaker 2:Of them booing him.
Speaker 1:You remember what he said? Yep, what did he say?
Speaker 2:It's my yard now.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:I was actually there when that happened. You were.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you were like a baby.
Speaker 1:But yeah, I was actually there when that happened. I've seen clips of that. That literally made him sound like a heel.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he didn't get a word out.
Speaker 1:I think he wanted to say more, but the way the crowd was, he was never going to get more than a line out like that. I feel like him saying that one word was more effective than him saying like a whole.
Speaker 2:S Exactly, exactly.
Speaker 1:And that's why I have him on my heel. When he tries to be a baby face, the crowd turns him into a heel.
Speaker 2:Anything else for you, number one.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:Alright, my number one. Nothing. Alright, my number one. This guy right here is probably one of the best talkers in the history of wrestling. I mean this guy can get under anybody's skin. I mean crowd other wrestlers. I mean people love to hate him. I mean he was hated other wrestlers I mean people love to hate him. I mean he was hated by multiple wrestlers. I'm going to go with Hot Rod, roddy Piper.
Speaker 2:Roddy Piper, number one heel of all time in wrestling. I mean what else can you say about him? People who watch Roddy Piper can know. I mean the man, just you say about it. People who watch Roddy Piper can know I mean the man just oozed off heel persona. I mean the man got booed left and right and he loved every bit of it. I mean, I mean what else can you say about the man, the man, like I said, the man got booed and loved it. I mean he can get under your skin by saying I mean Just say one sentence and hit the whole crowd, bullying them, other wrestlers. You can say something about other wrestlers. And they booed him, they hated him, they wanted to beat him down so bad and he was still going to ring and beat him.
Speaker 2:He never won a world championship. I can't remember. I know he won other what he called me a car built, but I can never remember him winning a world championship built. But he was always the man people hated. So for my number one top 10 heel of all time, I have Hot Rod Waddy Piper.
Speaker 2:That's some good list right here now today. Buddy, alright, anything else you want to add before we close it out um, wait, no one more thing about Roman Reigns.
Speaker 1:When he said this is my yard now, well, I think he's well. First of all, it just his tone was like a heel. And um, when he said this is my arc now, that was a direct shot to the Undertaker.
Speaker 2:Yep, he just beat him Right before WrestleMania. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Brock Lesnar was supposed to be a heel, was supposed to be the big bad guy, and when he beat the Undertaker people still like booed him and stuff. But they probably. But they booed roman rex way more than brock lesnar. After that he beat the undertaker and that and that's even. That's crazy. When he's, when he's a baby face, he gets booed more than than an actual heel I mean, he got booed to royal rumble when he won.
Speaker 2:The rock came out and he still got booed. Even rock got booed at Royal Rumble when he won. The Rock came out and he still got booed. Even the Rock got booed.
Speaker 1:Because people wanted him to win the year before right.
Speaker 2:A lot of the fans were cheering for him the year before and he didn't win, and then the year he did win, people didn't like him.
Speaker 1:Because they wanted Daniel Bryan to win, but he wasn't even in the Royal Rumble.
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 1:Which I'm still surprised by that. Now, yep, exactly. At least Daniel Bryan got his WrestleMania moment Yep, right, he did. That's all people wanted really.
Speaker 2:He had to wrestle two matches to do it, but he did it.
Speaker 1:Wait. When Roman Reigns won the Royal Rumble was that when he fought Triple H.
Speaker 2:Oh, I can't remember, maybe All right.
Speaker 1:Was that when he fought Triple H? Uh, I can't remember, maybe Alright. Anyways, I feel like that's the end of the episode.
Speaker 2:Alright, so I'm Ben.
Speaker 1:I'm Bash.
Speaker 2:This has been another episode of Tag Team Talk.