Queens, New York, has always been a pulsating node in the expansive body of hip-hop, and the homies Shawn, Coop and Adriel got a vault of memories tied to its streets and sounds to prove it. The latest episode of our podcast takes a journey through the borough's legacy, contrasting its influence with the likes of Staten Island and Brooklyn, all while gearing up for a celebration of a classic album that's edging towards its 30th strut around the sun. Adding flavor to our conversation is Erik from Jamaica Queens, a dynamo in hat design, rap, and entrepreneurship, who's lent his craft to the legendary Nas.
Amidst the rhythm and beats, we stitch together the threads of music and fashion as Erik, alias King Ways New Era, unwraps the narrative behind crafting exclusive headgear for Nas's King's Disease series. The storytelling doesn't stop at lyrics, as we navigate the emotional ebbs and flows that artists endure while trying to synchronize the tunes of their past, present, and future. This episode isn't just about beats and bars—it's an ode to the organic connection between fashion, music, and the pride they instill in a community.
We then crank up the volume on discussions surrounding the music industry's current complexion, pondering the impact of social media on artists' careers and the ethical entanglements of AI technology in music production. The fabric of our chat is woven with nostalgia as we reminisce about hip-hop titans like Rico Wade and dissect the enduring resonance of Nas's 'Illmatic'. With a mix of surprise guests and candid interviews adding to the mix, you're guaranteed a session that's as vibrant and spirited as the culture we're championing.
Queens, New York, has always been a pulsating node in the expansive body of hip-hop, and the homies Shawn, Coop and Adriel got a vault of memories tied to its streets and sounds to prove it. The latest episode of our podcast takes a journey through the borough's legacy, contrasting its influence with the likes of Staten Island and Brooklyn, all while gearing up for a celebration of a classic album that's edging towards its 30th strut around the sun. Adding flavor to our conversation is Erik from Jamaica Queens, a dynamo in hat design, rap, and entrepreneurship, who's lent his craft to the legendary Nas.
Amidst the rhythm and beats, we stitch together the threads of music and fashion as Erik, alias King Ways New Era, unwraps the narrative behind crafting exclusive headgear for Nas's King's Disease series. The storytelling doesn't stop at lyrics, as we navigate the emotional ebbs and flows that artists endure while trying to synchronize the tunes of their past, present, and future. This episode isn't just about beats and bars—it's an ode to the organic connection between fashion, music, and the pride they instill in a community.
We then crank up the volume on discussions surrounding the music industry's current complexion, pondering the impact of social media on artists' careers and the ethical entanglements of AI technology in music production. The fabric of our chat is woven with nostalgia as we reminisce about hip-hop titans like Rico Wade and dissect the enduring resonance of Nas's 'Illmatic'. With a mix of surprise guests and candid interviews adding to the mix, you're guaranteed a session that's as vibrant and spirited as the culture we're championing.
yo back in the building baby hip-hop talks. Ag cool what it do, fellas what up, what up yo, yo how y'all doing, doing great bruh, it's. It's a great thursday. It's released thursday, release thursday. We're going to get into all of that. I'm ready, I'm ready. Big, it's big queens. Tonight it's gonna be a queen's night. I'm sorry're going to adopt y'all for the night, but it's big Queens.
Speaker 3:Okay, so it was Park Hill. It was Park Hill last week, and now we're back with Queens Last week. Right, so Staten Island, now Queens. So we got two of the five covered, okay, no, doubt.
Speaker 1:I'm not bringing Brooklyn in here, I'm not bringing the Bronx. Park Hill is a cousin of Queens, so we're going to keep it right there. We get Brooklyn as Proust, but that's where it stops.
Speaker 3:Hey, just real quick. You know, my grandfather actually is technically from Red Hook, yeah, but I mean he grew up in Youngstown, though my pops and their side of the tribe is from Youngstown but got got busted a move the red hook for a little bit back in the day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, don't count.
Speaker 3:Brooklyn, don't count. Brooklyn, all the way out.
Speaker 1:I got you Big Queens, baby Yo. Shout out to our, to our streaming partners, shout out to Apple, shout out to Spotify, shout out to iHeart and shout out to Amazon Prime. You all can pick us up on all of those platforms moving forward. They're rocking with us. Shout out to my homie, ian iHeart we're looking out for the kid. We appreciate the love, we appreciate the support and thank you to all of you.
Speaker 1:Who's hopping in for tonight. We got a great show tonight. We're going to get into it. We're going to get in some big Nas talks, some big Queens talk, primo talk. We got Coop's Corner. We got AG throwing some stuff out there. We got a whole show tonight.
Speaker 1:But we're going to kick everything off with a merch legend, one of the guys. He's from big Queens as well Jamaica Queens. We got Eric in the house tonight. He's going to bring on a special guest on his side as well. Eric, if you're out there, if you're waiting, we're going to bring you on real quick, bro, we're going to get into that talk. Let me see if I can pull him up real quick. He should be backstage right now. We got everybody coming in the room. The room is building up. Eric is up there. We got everybody coming in the room. The room is building up, yeah, yeah, we got the chat up. We got the chat live right now. Queens, get the money. Queens wolf, cool, you got anything you want to say to us before we get this thing off with eric? Anything you want to say, man?
Speaker 3:no, I mean I have a lot to say today. I'm gonna wait to like kind of get to our topics and keep it organized, like I don't want to go too far off on a tangent, but this is a glorious time for hip-hop to be able to look back and start to celebrate some of the things that we're going to celebrate and talk about today. We're going to have a lot of relationship talk. We're going to have a lot of hip-hop talk, pop talk, and I want to have like some culture piece talks today because, uh, you know, obviously the album that we're about to talk about, that's about to turn 30, is, uh, the barometer for so many things and I'm just excited to be in a position, like to talk about these things you know what I'm saying and to talk about them with knowledgeable brothers such as yourself.
Speaker 3:And you know, I mean you know I don't know, okay, so so real quick mean me and Queens niggas like go back, like I went to college with like a lot of Queens niggas, so I don't know what it's always been my whole life with me and like all you Queens dudes, you know what I'm saying and even even my favorite MC coming from Queens, but there's always been this connection with me and, like dudes from Queens and even cats from Queens have always been there. Like Cooper, you're more like one of us a lot of the time. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:No, doubt you got that Queens mentality, man. You talk that Queens talk, not that West Virginia talk, whatever. That is no disrespect, AJ. No disrespect at all.
Speaker 2:It's all love, I'm going to let you live, sean, I might give you one more of those?
Speaker 3:Yo, real quick. You want to hear a quick sidebar? Back in the day back in Greensboro, the best weed we used to get actually used to come from this white girl that used to go to school with us from West Virginia. She used to bring down the best weed from West Virginia.
Speaker 1:I believe that West Virginia is wild man. Let me see if Eric is good, he's getting stuff set up.
Speaker 3:Well, you know, if you want I mean if he still needs a little bit more time I can kind of get into my Coop's Corner thing right quick.
Speaker 1:or if you want, yeah, yeah, let's do Coop's Corner, let's go to Coop's Corner, let's do it.
Speaker 3:Okay, I mean because this is not hip-hop related so we're going to be all over the place. You know, I saw a lot of people when OJ Simpson died, uh, you know, say a lot of um, incendiary things about the man, but there's something about the man that I think people are missing and that he's the godfather, essentially, of social media. Okay, before OJ Simpson media, okay, before oj simpson, you really didn't know what was going on behind the scenes in the life of a star. Like nobody knew that david ruffin was slapping broads up and like doing a quarter key a day. Nobody knew miles davis was beating his wife with the trumpet at night after the shows. And so oj simpson.
Speaker 3:And what happened to oj and I say this because the media did it intentionally, because at one point he was the most popular black man in America and it was definitely a concerted effort by the media to tear him down A whole network now exists because of the OJ trial. That's court TV. But before OJ and the OJ trial, we didn't know what our stars did behind the scenes. And so when you look at social media today and how invasive it is and how much a part of our lives it is, we actually have OJ to thank for better and for worse of it, because he's actually the real start of social media, because we didn't pry into our stars lives until OJ, allegedly, and so I just want to say that what are your responses to that? I got one more, but I want to see what y'all feel about that sentiment.
Speaker 2:What you got ag. I mean, yeah, after his, after his death the other day it was a lot of um, mixed reactions. You know I'm saying as far as, like, the social media community and based on the reactions you can kind of tell you know which side they side they were on. You know I don't want to word it like that picking sides, but at the end of the day, you know, I mean man can rest in peace. You know what I'm saying. Like you know, once it's beyond the grave, you know what I mean. If he did, if he didn't, whatever, you know what I mean. I think you should let that man rest in respect, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Yo, I agree. I'm glad that Cam and Mace was able to show that side of OJ before OJ left Earth, right, Because I think that you know we came through, you know we're around the same age group, we came through that era when OJ was in that Bronco being chased, right.
Speaker 1:And you remember that trial? That stuff was still how it was. I was in junior highco being chased right. And you remember that trial? That stuff was still how it was. I was in junior high when that happened. So that was the depiction that America had of OJ since that time up until his demise, you know, to his death, and I think Cam and Maze did a phenomenal job by bringing him back to the social media realm. Like you mentioned, coop, he's the godfather of social media. You know what I mean. Before social media became social media, oj was the inception of that. If you really think about it, from athletes, someone who actually got into entertainment he was in the Naked Guns, did all the great things. Oj was the one. He was the one. And they kind of made a mockery out of OJ over the years because they chastised and ridiculed him.
Speaker 3:But that takes nothing away from OJ's legacy, and I'm glad Cameron did a great job by being able to shed light on that as well. So here's here's something that we need to remember. This is somebody that had Barry Sanders, gail Sayers, like gracefulness with Earl Campbell, jim Brown-style power. He is still, to this day, one of the 10 greatest running backs who ever lived, and he's closer to top five than he is to back end of the 10. The only guys that I think are better than OJ Simpson as far as running back like Barry Sanders, walter Payton, jim Brown are the only running backs that I can tell you for certain are better than OJ. The rest of it's up for debate. And also, people forget the fact that OJ was actually Magic Johnson before Magic Johnson and Michael Jordan before Michael Jordan.
Speaker 3:And think about this In 1974, we're not even 10 years removed from having Civil Rights Act passed. Oj had over 20 endorsements in 1974, yeah, yeah, so he was that dude he was. He didn't always rep this community properly, but no, no, we've had that issue long before oj ever popped up, though he's not the first, he's not the right. I mean, a lot of people don't know this. We had that issue long before OJ ever popped up, though he's not the first. He's not the first. I mean, a lot of people don't know this. We had that problem in Black Wall Street. Part of what tore Black Wall Street down before the white people literally burned it down, was the fact that one of the brothers wasn't representing right and wanted to spend too much time with the white folks. Yeah, so this is a systemic issue that we've had in our community for a long time, long before OJ. Yes, so the other thing that I kind of wanted to point out right, quick fellas. I mean, I think everybody knows I'm a KB guy, right?
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 3:So tell me, why is it okay for Steph Curry to miss the playoffs three of the last five years and nobody says a word about it? Why is it OK for LeBron James to be in the play in every single year Pretty much he's been with the Lakers and nobody says a word about it? Do you know the type of shit Kevin Durant would get if he missed the playoffs three of the last five years or if he found himself in the play in tournament every year, like LeBron is? Now? This goes back to the media again. This is why I kind of bought up OJ and then kind of segued to this. The media controls the narrative more than they realize. Instead of talking about how this is unacceptable for somebody that you call a top-ten player all time and stuff, what top-ten player you know missing the playoff three out of five seasons? Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:He's not media-friendly. He's not media friendly, but he's better than Steph and he's closer to LeBron than people think, because here's the reality of the matter of the three of them you know who hasn't played in the play in tournaments yet. You know who has been in the playoffs every year pretty much for the past 14 years, that he's been healthy, and so I just want people to understand this is like oh no, I'm not. I'm not riding coattails, I'm paying attention to the narrative. If this guy's a top 10 player all time, show me the other top 10 player in the prime of their career. I'll be at the end of their prime where it would be okay for them to miss the playoffs three out of five years what irony of braun.
Speaker 2:When they first announced the changing rules for the play-in tournament, he was one of the main people that spoke out against it. He's been playing in every year since.
Speaker 1:So that's why I wanted him. He's benefited from it since. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And here's the other thing too when the hell is Steph beating a healthy LeBron team with him being the best player? Because the only time he really beat LeBron was when KD was there, Because that first ring kairi and kevin love got hurt. He still ain't beat lebron in no real playoff series because lebron just whooped their ass the other year so we just need to be mindful, as media members, how we're like really auditing these circumstances.
Speaker 3:You know these are the three best players of our generation, but one of them has missed the playoffs three of the last five years and the other one's in the play-in tournament of the year. And the third one is the guy that nobody really cares for because of the media dissemination, but he keeps finding himself in the playoffs. The Denver Nuggets won the NBA championship last year. You know how many games they lost? They lost four games, all playoffs. Guess who? Two of those games came against guys.
Speaker 2:Yeah, KD.
Speaker 3:When he had only played with the team for 15 games. So we need to be highlighting the other side of things a little bit more. It's like Phoenix is actually the only team that even gave Denver a challenge last year, and that was without KD knowing the system.
Speaker 1:They don't like KD. They never like KD.
Speaker 2:After the Golden State move. That's when it shifted.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but you can say the same for LeBron going to Miami, LeBron going back to Cleveland, LeBron going to the Lakers.
Speaker 3:No, fam, we can go back to Moses Malone and Dr J teaming up on the Sixers team. Did nobody say no shit about Moses Malone leaving Houston and going to Philadelphia? Dr J was there. You know somebody that at the time was considered to be a top five to ten player all time. Moses malone, who had already won two mvp awards in houston. Did anybody say anything when him and dr j teamed up. So we got to stop this narrative like kd is the first person to jump shit like that. We got to stop that narrative. Wilt Chamberlain left and teamed up with fucking Elgin Baylor and Jerry West.
Speaker 1:Wilt yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, this has been happening forever. Kd's not the first, he's just the guy from this generation that gets singled out for it. But when Wilt did it, didn't nobody say nothing. When Wilt went to the Lakers, didn't nobody say nothing.
Speaker 2:when Moses, but he didn't nobody say nothing when wilt went to the lakers. Then nobody said that when moses but he's not media friendly and they had that against them. But the caveat that they'll tell you is because he lost to that team the year prior. You know if if that wasn't the case that I don't think we having the same conversation. You know what I mean, because that never happened with any of those other situations where you jumped on the team that beat you the year prior in the playoffs.
Speaker 3:I I think people forget this. First of all, oklahoma City wasn't favored in that series. No, they weren't favored in that series. Most people didn't even think that series was going seven games. Right Now there was this guy playing point guard that got severely outplayed by the other point guard in the series, but nobody says anything about him. His legacy is still intact. People still love him. And then there's the fact I know clay has declined, but clay's game six performance against okc in that series is one of the greatest playoff performances of all time. It just it happens. You know what I'm saying. Like if you don't, if people don't like the move.
Speaker 3:Talk to the league. Talk to the union about the salary cap. Golden State just found a glitch in the matrix and was like, oh, we got enough money for KD Yank. That's what you're supposed to do.
Speaker 2:Yeah that game is what won them the series at game six.
Speaker 3:Yeah, game six is what won it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I watched that during the casino. Everybody was going crazy. Some people got rich off that game for real, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Yeah, all right. So Eric just hit me, he's ready. Y'all ready to bring Eric up?
Speaker 2:No doubt.
Speaker 1:Let's do it, let's get it. Eric Queens, get the money.
Speaker 4:Come on y'all. The king wears no wear. Come on, y'all know, we wears no wear. Come on, y'all know, ain't no one done it.
Speaker 1:We can't hear you bro.
Speaker 4:Can you hear me? Can y'all hear me?
Speaker 1:We can barely hear you.
Speaker 2:Thank you, bros.
Speaker 1:He froze on us, Get us, get. Uh, how about now?
Speaker 2:I can barely hear you, Eric. Y'all can't hear me.
Speaker 1:You real low, Nah Nah you real low fam.
Speaker 4:Let me take the AirPods out.
Speaker 3:Let me see yeah, that's better.
Speaker 4:I heard you say that Y'all hear me good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we can hear you now, yeah we can hear you now, All right what's up, man?
Speaker 4:It's the King Ways New Era. Like who's better? Come on, big queens, we here Taking over.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's big queens energy. We don't need to see you, we can feel the queens.
Speaker 1:So, Ariel, talk to us. Man, Tell the people who you are, man, where you from, what you about.
Speaker 4:Tell them who you are, man. So what's good? What's good, y'all, it's the King. Where's new era? I'm a hat designer, rapper, entertainer. You know, like I say, I'm an entrepreneur Watch your mouth and I work very hard. I like to network, I like to talk to people, I like music, I like art, dancing. So my focus is connecting people with all those parts of the culture.
Speaker 1:Big Queens come on, no doubt. What's some of the work you've done, fam. Talk about some of the work you've done, fam tell. Talk about the sort of work you've done. Man, you're being humble right now. It's not big queens, you're being humble right now yeah, yeah, I'm taking over, I'm taking over.
Speaker 4:So I've been. I've been designing for about four years since about uh uh, 2019, 2020 and um. I got a bunch of collaborations with stores all over the world. We talking Hat Club Sports World 165 on Jamaica Avenue 95 North in Connecticut. Home Game Tokyo out there in Japan. Home Game NYC out here in New York. I make music, so that's in my veins. I'm the son of Casanova Rudd, part of the group Casanova Rudd Superlover C. That's my father. I love him dearly. He's living vicariously through me so I'm making sure I do all the right moves. But I've been working hard, working on hats, designing, doing a lot of collaborations, shaking hands, taking photos, smiling, kissing babies, doing the things that I got to do. But I'm very fortunate at the position I'm at and I'm trying to give back and that's my main purpose right now?
Speaker 1:No doubt, no doubt. What inspires you, bro, is it your father legacy that inspires you to do the music now, because you've been putting it down heavy for the fashion. We got some. We gotta show them some of your work, because you've been doing crazy work with these hats, especially for Nas and others out there you talking about my children. That's what I want to see. That's what I want to see. Yo pull it up. We need that KD series. Hat man, pull that shit up and start playing with us.
Speaker 4:Well, I got that King Disease 2 on. You know the big guy himself. I had to get him one. Um, I've been locked in here with him probably since, like maybe early 2022. Um naz had probably right, I think it was. I think he rocked the blue icy joint. It's the first hat I ever did with hat club. Uh, shout out to t-800 john and hat club. They hit me up to do a hat and I sent one out to Nas so he could rock it on tour and he loved it. So we said yo, let's get something together. We cooked something up and I came out with the King of Z's 2.
Speaker 4:I don't have something on hand to show you, guys, but I also did something for the Streets to Sifle and then I got a King's Disease 3. So I so, um, I'm super big nas fan, even though I'm from astoria projects, jamaica queens, I'm super big nas fan. Um, I always been inspired by his hustle and I can't front he just got that. That rhyme scheme. You gotta like hold on what he said, hold on whoa, you feel me. So I, I know something. And, um, I had to add him to my collaborations when I was doing hats and I'm super big on cartoons, anime, so for the young games I got stuff for y'all too. I do a lot of inspirations for artists Mary J Blas, the Doobie Brothers Like yeah, I go back. You know what I mean that's dope.
Speaker 1:No doubt Cool. Ag. You got a question for Eric. Anything y'all got for Eric.
Speaker 3:I got a statement, followed into a question. I mean, one of the things that Nas is notorious for is for repping Queens, not only like on the mic but in business ventures, and putting a lot of people from Queens in the game in various aspects and various situations. Now, I know you're from South, you're from Southside, right, you're from Southside Queens. So how did that relationship forge itself? Like, when's the first time you met Nas? Uh, how did this whole hat thing with him come together? Like, can you explain the process of that and can you put and can we get your link so that the people in the chat know where to come check your shit out at?
Speaker 4:So I'm, yeah, I'm in the basement. Literally I'm from Queens, I mean, I mean, I'm Kingwarsnuarva on everything the Kingwarsnuarva on IG, the Kingwarsnuarva on Twitter, such and such. Same thing for the email. How it came together was it was real simple. The G code hit me up. Gabriel shout out Gabe. He hit me up, said I need some hats, let's cook something up.
Speaker 4:I sent them a couple joints and then it came to a point where they was like nah, you're going too crazy, like let's do something specific. So we cooked up something and, um, they threw the cosign and I, I was, I was excited, man once. Once he told me he, he threw it on, he went out eating dinner, sent me a photo in it. I was ecstatic but, um, you know, I I can't live off of those type of accolades. I gotta keep, I gotta keep going. So I said what can I do after that? Um, I connected erica ford and um supreme and and Griff Jr for a shoot we did out there at the Nas mural and it was beautiful because I was already kind of connected to that. The store I'm working with at Home Game, there's a DJ. His name is they might know him as TK, but his name is Teddy King and he worked with a lot of people that I'm working with now and it's just very coincidental. So when I told him I was doing a shoot at the Nas mural, he said, yo, that's very funny because my good friend Eddie, he actually cooked that up and he did one of the other murals, but I think it was. They had to take it down because it was getting messed up too much. But it's crazy how I didn't even know this guy through you know a hole in the wall, and he just hits me up and says, yo, let's cook up, and then I make something, bring it over here and it's all connected.
Speaker 4:You know, it's all Queens, natives, and this stuff is not planned, but my intentions is always there, like my reason to do it is like it feels better to connect Queens, like I always felt. Like the Brooklyn stands up, they stand so close to each other. The Bronx, when they stand up, they stand so close to each other. So I said how can I recreate that effect? But keep it Queens. So I've been trying to, you know, connect with natives, connect with the right people. I've been campaigning, I've been doing a lot of uh, uh, giving back and I'm and I'm focused on keeping my stuff primarily Queens because, um, it just feels more special. Yeah, I mean like we don't. We don't got a lot of uh uh leaders in my field, so I'm trying to stand up and show these people like, listen, you could design, you could do some creative, you could be artsy and still be the swaggy dude. You know what?
Speaker 2:I'm saying for a piece, eric. Um, we know that hip hop and merch go kind of hand in hand, right. So you talked about the joints you did for Nas. So you're a rapper yourself. Do you plan on doing any?
Speaker 4:limited edition pieces or collections to coincide with some stuff that you release. Yeah, I had a couple of ideas about that, me, and my father was speaking about that. It all got to make sense. You know, I don't want it to be like a like a gimmick thing when I'm trying to coin it, but I do have some stuff inspired by some of my music and I already wear my designs in all my music videos. So I'm like I'm like the brand ambassador even though I'm the designer, but I definitely do have some stuff inspired by my music as well as some stuff inspired by my people's music. So I'm making sure everybody got merch to represent, you know, because the fitted is real important. That's like I mean, it's like damn near shorty walk around with the purse when my fitted at you know so, and and I call them crowns because you know I'm not just the king, but I don't try to say I'm the king, where's new era? Like I'm the king, I'm saying if you got this crown on, you the king wearing new era or you the queen wearing new era, my stuff, you know, started early 2019.
Speaker 4:I was trying to figure out a name. I said you know what really sticks to me and I had a couple ideas and then something clicked. I remember every sunday, growing up, my older sister used to kill me with the devil wears prada. And it got to the point where I'm knowing lines and that's not me. You know what I mean. So, um, I said, yo, that's it's just. It was a playful memory and I said how can I flip that? And I came with the king where's new era? And you know, I love anne hathaway. She's a wonderful, she's a wonderful actress, uh, a fashionable icon. And, um, I just been real focused on trying to have clarity with what I do like, um, I I, everything I do. I always say like this is fun. But from the great words of, uh, shout out, j Tips, he always said you know, we're not happy to be here, we're supposed to be here.
Speaker 2:Supposed to yeah, so I make sure everything I do is right.
Speaker 4:You know what I mean. I give myself affirmation, I give myself reassurance.
Speaker 1:Big Queens, Big Queens Big.
Speaker 3:Queens, big Queens, can I ask you something right quick? Big queens, can I ask you something right quick? So I'm from charlotte, north carolina, and the nickname for charlotte is called queen city and our logo is actually a crown. Can I get you to step outside of your queen's box? Maybe give me a little queen city action. Can I get some queen city for sure?
Speaker 4:for sure, for sure. I mean I'm the king of new orleans, so you know, stores hit me up and they tell me, like yo, we might need this team, we might need that team. So I make other teams. There's some other joints, but mainly I enjoy making mess, hats it just. I mean no Yankees, though. I ain't got no Yankees, but I make.
Speaker 3:Good, I'm a Braves fan.
Speaker 4:As long as they hit me up, nah, keep it.
Speaker 1:Miss Keep it, miss Keep it Queens, keep it Queens, man, not Little Charlotte, keep it Queens, respectfully. Tell us about your music coming up.
Speaker 4:I got a couple joints coming up. I'm working on a song, I think it's produced by Eddie Rivers. Shout out, eddie Rivers. He's holding it down for the city right now. I got to be honest. There's a lot of guys in my town that's really doing their thing and they inspire me to work. And I'm going crazy. I just got my wisdom teeth taken out. I'm ready to sing, baby. I'm ready to sing, baby. I'm ready to rap, ready to tap, dance, whatever you need. So I'm focused, but, um, this is, this is a battery man. And then, um, I know I haven't said it already, but um, thank you guys, so much for having me. It's already been a pleasure I don't know.
Speaker 1:Bro, it's love. Thank you for coming up here. Yo is your father. Your father have you in boot camp getting you ready, because you know you that's, there's some big shoes to fill.
Speaker 4:You got you in boot camp he got this, he got this mindset. Where, um he came, he came up in a time where you know it's considered the golden era. You know the nwa, so you know the kid in place. So a pepper era. So you had to be a star, you know. I mean you had to be a, a dude with finesse, you had to be like a ai. It's no practice, we just go straight in and um I, I know sometimes he tells me things and it's like you know, to get my mind right on it, but it's, it's. He know it's got to be me, it's got to be my swag, it's got to be me, it's got to be my walk. But for the for most part, I'm taking down all the wisdom. I'm hearing him out. He gave me a lot of social media training. He gives me a lot of everyday advice and he's my best friend. I mean I feel like he's my son, no doubt.
Speaker 1:No doubt, no doubt, no doubt. Nah, shout out your father, the group out in Durex. You know what I mean. Acting was pumping, super loving. Seeing Casanova, that tells you where his legend lies in hip-hop.
Speaker 4:You know what I mean. He was shouted out in Eminem's Hall of Fame speech as well.
Speaker 1:Yep In Eminem's Hall of Fame speech yes, yes, 88. I mean, he came through that class and Coop knows about 88. You know, AG knows about 88. That was a heavy year. You know what I mean you had. That was the first golden era of hip hop before we got to the 90s and your father was in the middle of all of that. Does that inspire you as an artist, to say you know, I got legacy here.
Speaker 4:You'd be surprised man, sometimes like it's something to get emotional about. Sometimes I look at his milestones I may see like a billboard chart, like it's his head, like he got his space, but it's mine, if that makes sense, it's facts. Like he got his space, but it's mine, if that makes sense, it's facts.
Speaker 1:Like you want it right now.
Speaker 4:Let me have it, let me keep your trophy. I can look at that. That's something for me, like he's passed down some of his stuff, like some of his old records that's never been taken out, the plastic. I got it hanging on my wall but it's super inspiring to the fact that it's in my veins, man, like it's close. Even if I don't do music, I'm in music and I'm so close to it where I don't want to leave. I'm dancing to it, I'm singing to it and I can't stop making music, as much as I say I can't stop making hats. So him seeing all the stuff you know I got some of the posters from events he did. I got some of the lost tapes, but it inspires me because I was like, wow, this is my father. He never pushed me exactly to make music, so it wasn't like, oh yeah, I got to make music. It came on my own terms and him allowing me to do music on my own terms. And they're coming to to me like yo, whatever you need, I can help you, I can engineer a little bit or I piece it together. I know some producers or I know studio. Oh, check this spot out.
Speaker 4:I used to be here like I'm I'm listening, I definitely listen, and I'm, and he teaches me every day with, with small conversations. It'd be moments. It'd be we'd be laughing about party moments. Little fight, you know, get rowdy, you be the, you be the, the fly rapping pretty boy. So what happens? You know, you gotta stand your ground and, um, it just gives me purpose. Like yo, if you want to do this, you could do this and you are gonna do this. So just stay focused, stay grounded, make sure you're aware of your foundation, be be aware of the people around you, make sure your your circle's tight and stay humble. That's all you can do, big queens.
Speaker 1:Big queens, big queens, yo, does your father have the Acura legend still? Does he still have the Acura? It's in the driveway.
Speaker 4:Talk to me, listen he got a couple toys all right, that's like asking. Mj if he still got a free throw.
Speaker 1:Yo, that's crazy, mj, if he still got a free throw.
Speaker 4:No, that's crazy. I mean like it's there, the jimmy is there so look.
Speaker 3:So, so you know, my first, my first whip was actually an 89 acura legend wow yeah, that was my first whip was an 89 acura legend.
Speaker 3:You know, because that was one of the cars when I was growing up, that if, like the dudes that was fly from the neighborhood used to have those. So as soon as like it was the mid 90s and I had me like a little money to even go to an auction and cop one of those, I had to get one of those. I had one with a little kid in it and the sunroof butterscotch seats. I remember the act legend, but let but. But let me ask you this you know you kind of grew up around this game, but how would you define your style as an mc, like, where your inspirations come from outside of your father? And you know, like, how would we classify your style and your style of music?
Speaker 4:um, I'm, I'm very like, open, very off-rep. When you hear my music, I I talk about um, my relationships, uh, uh, with, with, with past women. I talk about my relationship with my lady right now. I talk about, um, the struggle that I've gone through with trying to figure out music. I talk about um trying to stand my ground as being a hat designer but still letting people know, like, listen, I make music, don't get it twisted, but I'm just trying to take it to a different lane.
Speaker 4:Now be professional and um, I I would say it's, it's, it's like love, it's love base, it's romance, but it's it's party, it's like party romance, um, uh, and and in simple terms, they call it sexy drill because you're not really dissing nobody, you dissing your lady or you dissing your ex-lady. So I'm it's like it's stuff they, you know it's very relatable. It's um, it's stuff. That's true to me.
Speaker 4:So you get to learn about me when you hear just a couple of my songs, like uh, bitty bop, you listen to she love, you listen to um uh, hitman it's a couple joints that break it down and you see the growth as well. You see where I could start, where I might have been a little bit insecure one bit and then I get my swag together and I'm like, oh snap, like I'm him, I'm on my Hitman, you know what I mean. So it's a couple different phases through my music and I'm, I'm at a I'm at a point now where, um, I'm comfortable with with speaking and not being afraid to say like the stuff, like I'm not scared, so I'm not scared to talk about some love that hurt me, so I'm open to make music, it's it's, it's, it's there. So I like I said it's just, it's like romance, party romance, sexy drill, they call it.
Speaker 4:OK, so you got some Drake and some future in you is what you're saying. Yeah, a little bit of Pluto and a little bit of Aubrey in there. You could say, I mean, I say my inspiration is directly because I'm not, I want to say I haven't done my homework enough to be like, oh yeah, five is very, you know, uh, uh, uh, specific. But I say, uh, my inspiration is, you know, my jack. You know, um, I'm a big fan of little wayne. He has a, yeah, his longevity is is crazy.
Speaker 4:Um, I'm a big fan of, uh, like I said, some older cats like marvin gaye, the whisperers, the doobie brothers. Um, I like to stay true to older stuff, especially because newer stuff might influence me to talk different or sound different. So I try to stay to the stuff that I was already growing up with. So I keep my sound and even then I listen to some of my older songs, and my father Me and my father got like 30, 40 songs before I actually started making music. So sometimes when I can't figure out a flow, don't tell nobody I go back and listen to my old stuff and I steal my old flows wow, wow yo, I got a question, um, can you compare and contrast your writing process as the mc to your designer process?
Speaker 2:Like you know, what kind of space do you like to be in, and those sorts of things? Does it differ from one another when you're in your designing bag versus when you're in your you know what I'm saying tapping into your MC bag?
Speaker 4:I feel like my MC bag is a different pocket you kind of got to dig into because, like, you got gotta have a certain like vernacular. As an mc you can't be bashful, because the people will see that. You know, I mean, the crowd eat you as an mc even if you're not in front of a crowd, yeah, and you could be in this little screen. You get eaten up if you. You know you got a weak confidence or so you can't be weak. So I I have a certain confidence.
Speaker 4:When I make music, it's straightforward. But when I make hats I feel like I'm a lot more thoughtful, like I don't care about getting judged, so I just go straight for the crazy ideas and then if people pick up on it, that's that. But the music is my art. I always felt like it's more organic that way. If I worry about somebody else's opinion, it'll alter the way I think about my own music. I'll be doubtful. So I try to stay true. Like I like this, boom, keep pushing. Oh, boom, I like this, boom, keep pushing. And that way you just keep working. That's the whole thing, the whole key I learned just keep working, man, don't stop and don't even talk about it. Just keep working, working, working, work. You got so much stuff you could pick out the stuff you like the most and that's how you do it, that's how people make these projects, that's how these fashion brands put these lines together these seasons they so-call it and that's how people stay.
Speaker 4:You got to be very organized and that my hat stuff is organized. And then my music stuff is like on the fly, because I feel good when I'm doing the music. I feel very great. But when I'm doing a hat dance, I sit down and say to people like, what can I do for people? Do I want to do something for the community? Do I want to do something like? Do I want to make a like a wave hat? Do I want to put a stop to hearts? Do I want to do something striking? My intentions is clear, man. Like when I'm in my MC bag I'm boom, go straight for it. But the hat bag, I got to be careful, got to be a lot more thoughtful, meticulous.
Speaker 2:All right, that's what's up, man. Thank you no doubt Cool.
Speaker 1:Any other questions for Eric?
Speaker 3:No, I just want to thank you for sharing all this with us. You got great energy and a bright future. I can see why Nas fucks with you. I see you ain't too far off the family tree, so I just want to wish you much blessings and much success. When we get done with the show, I'm going to find out what the hell sexy drill is.
Speaker 4:I'm probably going to ask my daughter.
Speaker 3:Somebody got to explain that shit to me.
Speaker 4:I'm going to give you some OG energy.
Speaker 3:Somebody got to explain to me what sexy drill is. I just got acquainted with drill in the last couple of years. Now you hit me with the sexy drill. You young niggas be coming up with wild shit.
Speaker 4:Yeah, for yeah, for real, for real.
Speaker 4:That's a different easy way to break it down. Um, you know they got some of the originators. I'll just shout them out too, before we even break it down. It's real quick. Uh, cash cobain, he's the dominator of that. He's the creator of sexy drill. Uh, chow lee lani, love payroll.
Speaker 4:We talk about matthew ali. Um, tally, space leave, new sachi, the the community is big. But, um, sexy drills basically, you know how you got drill and it's a lot of beats going on and they dissing Space Leaf, new Saatchi the community is big. But Sexy Drill is basically you know how you got drill and it's a lot of beats going on and they dissing people and such that shouldn't be going on. Whatever, whatever. Sexy Drill is talking about love. So we dissing the dudes. That's messing with chicks. We dissing the chicks and they love it, and it's a matter of just being playful. And it's a matter of just being playful. It's party music. You know what I mean. It's nothing disrespectful, everybody having fun. You don't got to worry about nothing crazy, everybody good, and it's super fun. Like I said, I feel like I'm the new Casanova Rudd. You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:Girls I got a lot. I heard girls, I got a lot Okay.
Speaker 1:Pump it up those AG anthems right there, those AG anthems. Pump it up. That's his anthem. Yo, eric. We appreciate you, bro. We're gonna definitely put your music on the station head in our rotation. We're definitely gonna put your tags and everything in the chat so everybody know where to find you. I need to hit you up on the side, though. I need to get those hats really soon so I can wear them on the show but I'm gonna figure out something.
Speaker 4:I'm gonna send something to all you guys, so don't even worry about that. We're gonna put something together. Y'all all gonna get something. Appreciate it okay, yeah give me a.
Speaker 3:Give me a hip-hop talks hat. They got a crown on it that says sexy drill on the side.
Speaker 1:Don't do a West Virginia hat, though Don't do West Virginia hats. We don't do that here.
Speaker 2:That's two, sean. You got one more. My bad bro.
Speaker 1:That's two. We appreciate you, bro. Salute to you, salute to your, to your father, salute to your movement, salute to the hats. You know we're looking forward to seeing you blow up by next year. We're not gonna be able to afford you fam, so we got to get it in your paws right now, hey hey eric what's going on.
Speaker 3:I just want you to let the people know what your handle is and where they can find you.
Speaker 4:One more time, no doubt if you're looking for my music, let's start there, because we here, music is at a beautiful place right now, 50 years, shout it out. You can find me at all platforms king of queens, spotify, itunes, apple, everything, youtube. You're looking for me on instagram it's the king. Where's new era? You're looking for me on Instagram it's TheKingWearsNewEra. You're looking for me on Twitter it's TheKingWearsNewEra. You're looking for me anywhere else? Thekingwearsnewera. If you're trying to find me outside, I'm outside in Queens. I love y'all. Thank you, guys, so much for having me it's.
Speaker 1:TheKingWearsNewEra I'm out Big Queens Yo. So, Coop, let's keep it moving. Man, I'm going to flip it back to you. Coop, Talk about Rico Wade.
Speaker 3:You know we lost a legend down here in Rico Wade. Here's the best way I could juxtapose it. For somebody like for our New York following Sean imagine if Marley Marle were to pass away. That's what losing Rico Wade in Atlanta is like. That's like losing Marley Marle up there. He is the architect of our sound that we're now world-renowned for. He is the centerpiece of the dungeon family. He is the creator of the dungeon family. When Andre uh is talking on elevators and he says you know, a couple of years ago, on Headland and below that's Rico Wade's mama house, that's where the dungeon started, that's not Andre's crib Andre talking about he talking about the dungeon. That's Rico. The dungeon started. That's not Andre's crib.
Speaker 1:Andre talking about he talking about the dungeon that's Rico Wade Mama House, no doubt.
Speaker 3:So we lost. We lost the architect, we lost the innovator, we lost the legend, we lost a wonderful producer and production mind. You have to understand, for us Down here, we never and I don't mean this in a disrespectful way, we never wanted to sound like New Yorkers. We just wanted to take interpretations of the piece of hip hop and add it and add to it. And so what Rico Wade did, that was so innovative, especially for the time when you look at it, is that, well, he took the samples and the scratches that came from the New York DJs and producers and then he paired it with live instrumentation. And so that's what you find on Southern Playalistic Cadillac music is that you find the boom bap sample in the scratch mixed with the live instrumentation.
Speaker 3:That's Rico Wade, that's the sound of the dungeon family, that's the sound of the organized noise, that's the sound of Southern hip hop. And so we lost our hip hop architect, who defined our sound and defined our region for us. And so it's a big loss the city has been extremely sad and it's still sad.
Speaker 3:It's everywhere and it's one of those things for those of us like I've always said this and we're about to talk about it because the album's released a week apart. For those of us like I've always said this and we're about to talk about it because the album's released a week apart. Ilmatic was released one week before southern playalistic was the same year. Ilmatic was the album that made me want to rap. Southern playalistic is the album that made me believe that I could rap, because I knew where those dudes were from. You know. I mean like my mom's friend went to try with big boy, you know. Know what I'm saying. And so Rico Wade is so integral to the sound and the legend of OutKast Goody Mob, the whole Dungeon Family crew. A lot of people don't know this. Rico Wade is Future's cousin. That's part of how Future ended up being second generation Dungeon Family. Rico is Future's cousin. A lot of people don't know that. And so he's so integral. A lot of people don't know the Don't Let Go song from the En Vogue soundtrack. That's Organized Noise. That's Rico Wade. Waterfalls by TLC that's Rico Wade in Organized Noise. He's the architect of these things.
Speaker 3:Two of the best five albums that ever came out of the South, all produced by Organized Noise, in my opinion, and that would be Southern Playalistic and Soul Food. I would put the Diary and Equimini, and whatever your fifth album would be, mine would probably be the Carter 2, depending on 400 degrees but so important to the sound. I just want to go down some of the other tracks that he produced. First of all, organized noise produced all of soul food, goodie mobs, first supper and all of southern play holistic has in every fucking record, but a lot of people don't know that they were an integral part of all the stuff that came after. I just want to run down some records that Organized Noise produced.
Speaker 3:Right, quick if I may, yep, two Dope Boys in the Cadillac Jazzy Bell, babylon Wailing, decatur, psalm Mainstream, millennium, 13th Floor. That's half of ATLians On Equimini. Return of the Gangsta. Skew it on the Barbie with Raekwon West, savannah, mamacita, that's all organized noise so fresh, so clean. I'll stank on you spaghetti junction, which was probably the best pure hip-hop song on stank on you. We love these hoes, which is a personal favorite. I still sing the hook that we love these hoes.
Speaker 3:Um uh on did most of still standing too, along with mr Mr DJ Goody Mob's second album. And those are just the Goody Mob and Outkast contributions. And so we lost the legend. We lost our Marley Morrow this past weekend.
Speaker 3:And another thing that I want to say like in the four years that I've been in this podcast world, I've seen too many hip hop legends who I've looked up to my whole life die way too soon. I understand that this is a hard business in a hard way, but we got to find a better way. We've lost too many people. We've lost too many black men in their forties and fifties, guys forties and fifties, way too soon, way too soon. Like I want to encourage my brothers drink some water, get some sleep, leave the girls alone. Leave the drugs alone, leave the alcohol alone, like, like, like. The devil is in the detail. Master your pace, because I'm tired.
Speaker 3:I feel like, since I've been doing this show, I feel about four to five times a year I got to look up and see that somebody who I know is within 10 years of my lifespan that's gone. I'll be 43 this year. Rico's only 52. I grew up on these guys Right, you know what I'm saying? It's crazy Fife. When we lost Fife, I was like Fife's gone, it's just too many, too fast. We, as black men, we just got to do better about monitoring our health, getting proper exercise. Uh, incorporate fresh squeezed juice into your diet like niggas. I'm not being funny when I say this. You niggas got money. I need y'all to do better. Eat some salads, fresh veggies and fruits fresh juices.
Speaker 1:Right, drink some beet juice. Yeah, do all of that.
Speaker 3:Eat some, eat some. Uh, eat some organic cherries like like, uh, fresh grapefruit in the morning to help with the blood pressure. Like we just got to do better as a community.
Speaker 1:Right, no doubt yeah.
Speaker 3:But rest in peace. Rico Wade. Like we lost a legend down here. The city's feeling it. Like the city's feeling it, the city feels, somber right now. Like I was all around the city today, I was on the south side and the east side today and it's like you can literally feel it in the air.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I feel you on that. I do have a question for you. Do you think that rico loves impact is big when it came to shifting the sound of of hip-hop from a new york-based sound that was so gritty when you had outcast come out with Southern player listed, do you feel like he was pivotal in shifting that entire landscape when it came to that song?
Speaker 3:When shifting the landscape. How about this? I think what he provided for us was our own hip hop template that made us confident that we didn't have to use a West Coast sound or an East Coast sound to identify ourselves or to make a hip-hop classic. He taught us how to make hip-hop classics our way. Does that make sense? He taught us how to do it our way.
Speaker 1:That's my accent, You're right Because the West Coast was dominating. East Coast, of course, was surging. It was a time. It was a time where you had East Coast and West Coast and then you had the infamous, you know, quote, unquote. The South has something to say. Would you feel like Rico was really like the catalyst to all of that?
Speaker 3:No, he is the catalyst. He is right. There, there is. There is. No, the south got something to say without rico wade, because there's no southern playalistic cadillac music without rico wade that allows outcasts to win best new artists at the source awards. For andre to get on stage and say that that does not happen without rico wade, because that all happened in rico wade mama house. The players ball is up. That's the house, the intro to player's ball where they're sitting around the table. That's Rico Wade's mama dining room. The dungeon is downstairs. When you're seeing Andre sitting on the steps on Benz or a Beamer dapping niggas up, talking about deep in the dungeon for these many months, no, that's Rico Wade Mama House.
Speaker 2:To your point Coop, coop. I think he ushered that in with southern playalistic and soul food, but for me, anyways, atlians is what solidified that. You know, especially the people up top. You know what I mean, respecting that sound carving out their own niche.
Speaker 3:So so here's the thing, and I always tell people this most east coast people love at aliens the most. Yeah, because that's the boom bap album that came out of the organized noise dungeon family camp, that's. That's the most east coast inspired of all the albums in terms of the drums and the scratches.
Speaker 3:There's literally a song called wheels of steel yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, and so he took you know, it's like this, here's how hip-hop works. I mean, and y'all all know this well, you take a formula and you freak it and you make it your own till you master it. So southern play, holistic is the introduction into the formula, at aliens is the mastery of that hip-hop boom bap formula done the Southern way.
Speaker 2:Facts and shout out to Jack. That's why it's my favorite as well. You know, ATL is, for me is the one Most people will tell you Equimini, but for me ATL is the one.
Speaker 3:So here's what I'll tell you I have ATLians. Third, I'm partial to Southern Playalistic because I was literally leaving Atlanta around the time. Southern Playalistic because I was literally leaving Atlanta around the time Southern Playalistic was going on. So when I'm moving back to Charlotte like I was born in Charlotte but I was raised in the city in Atlanta and on the east side I moved back up to Charlotte literally the year I turned 13, which is the year Illmatic and Outkast Southern Playalistic came out. I moved September of that year, I believe it was, and so for me, southern Playalistic gave me that Atlanta feeling that I didn't have, because I was a teenager that had just moved to Charlotte and although my family's from Charlotte and I was born in Charlotte, I don't know shit about Charlotte when I'm a teenager. You know what I mean. So Southern Playalistic gave me a piece of my home.
Speaker 3:I feel like Equemini is the most well-crafted album of the three, but on some rap shit and on some mic performance, specifically andre, it's at aliens and that's why people gravitate, especially who have more of a new york and east coast aesthetic. Well, that's why you gravitate towards. At aliens, well, there's more boom bap on at aliens and on southern playalistic and a quimini and there's more intricate traditional rhyme patterns and rhyme styles on ATLians because these guys have become more traditional, fundamentally rooted MCs. Southern Playalistic is teenagers figuring out their way. Atlians is them knowing the way, absolutely.
Speaker 1:No doubt. But definitely rest in peace to Rico. Knowing the way, absolutely no doubt. But definitely rest in peace to Rico Wade. My heart bleeds for the city of Atlanta Coop you mentioned. It's heavy out there right now, family and prayers, man. Family and prayers. So we went from one legend to another. Mr C. We lost Mr C. So AG, I'm going to flip it over to you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, that was heavy. You know, in the community too, man, Mr C, one of the legends. I was first introduced to Mr C, like back with Daddy Kane and all that, but then, you know, my fondest memory is when he put out the Best of Big mixtape. You know what I'm saying. That was, you know, some heavy material right there and he's just a legend, a pillar in the hip-hop community and you know, when I heard of his passing I wish the hip-hop community would have showed him you know what I'm saying more love in his passing, because you know from what I've seen in his passing, because you know from what I've seen, you know, on the socials it was fairly like a blip on the radar. But you know I'm saying he's, he's one of the staples in the hip-hop community and it should have been shown more love and respect after his passing.
Speaker 1:So rest in peace, no doubt I mean. Look, he was an associate executive producer ready to die, so you need to know all he brought in Big Daddy.
Speaker 3:Kane. I was about to say how many people can say they helped discover Kane and Big it doesn't get any bigger than that.
Speaker 1:What are we talking about here?
Speaker 3:Name one other person in hip-hop history that can say they found and are partially responsible for two guys of that stature in this culture we're talking about. We're talking about top five from each era. No matter, I don't care what anybody says. It's like you don't gotta love kane, you don't gotta love big. They're easy top five for their era, both of them who else is?
Speaker 2:well, the source even featured them one that um on big's unsigned hype, am I correct? Yeah, they feature this on that. So it's like you know he. He's responsible. The source even featured him on Big's Unsigned Hype, am I correct?
Speaker 4:Yeah, they featured him on that.
Speaker 2:So it's like you know he's responsible for so much in hip hop. You know what I mean so much.
Speaker 1:So much. Like Coop said earlier, I don't think we do our legends the right way. We don't honor them the right way in our culture, for whatever reason. We pick and choose who we want to honor or who we want to respect. Again, put aside what he's done right, put aside those other situations. That's out there, and I think that plays a part of that with some of these other stations. You know I'm not going to say no names because we've got some affiliations out there right now, but some of them are not championing him because of personal beef that they had and they didn't put that out there. So now it's getting suppressed. But you cannot take away from his legacy, you cannot take away from what he's done as a legend. Again, you bring in Daddy Kane, big Daddy Kane, and you associate produce Ready to Die.
Speaker 3:So you gotta you can't take that away. I mean not only that, I mean this is my introduction to him was in Big and Unsigned Hype, because for me he's the guy that did Biggie's demo Right. He put Big's demo together, so look, so essentially he's the one that got Big to puff Right, which made Ready to Die, which changed the landscape of East Coast hip-hop culture. It brought the East Coast back. I mean we got to get it where it is he knocked down the first domino.
Speaker 2:He knocked down the first domino Right.
Speaker 3:I was about to say he's the first cornerstone of the building structure, he's the ground level, he's the cement on the ground that, like a whole empire, got built on.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and a phenomenal DJ. You can't take away from the fact that he's one of the best.
Speaker 3:Look, I didn't even know he was Kane's DJ and that he bought Kane in, until after I got familiar with Big and old heads used to tell me be like no, be like, that's Kane's guy. I was like no, that's Big's guy. They like no, no little nigga.
Speaker 3:You don't know nothing, like you know what I'm saying, like that. So he's one of those people that helped me get acquainted with hip hop history, because I knew him through Big and it took knowing the older heads to know. It's like no, no, no, that's really Kane got first. I'm like, oh shit.
Speaker 1:No doubt.
Speaker 3:Rest in peace to.
Speaker 1:Mr C Rest in peace. To the legend phenomenal DJ brought us legends. Go back and look at Mr C tree, look at the branches from his tree and make your judgment from. There.
Speaker 3:Here's what it is A guy from Bed. Stop Brooklyn. Put on two of the three best mcs to ever come out of brooklyn period.
Speaker 1:There you go there you have it period. Yeah, so cool. I'm gonna put this other one to you scissors run, scissor, scissor. I he getting recognized, she's getting her love. What you think, man? Now she's being honored as a songwriter's hall of fame. What you think, man, now she's being honored as a songwriter, so hall of fame. What you think?
Speaker 3:so first of all, like congratulations to her, I'm gonna give her her props. I want to say this you know how fucking hard it is to sell seven million records in this era.
Speaker 3:Yeah you know how hard that is. Like selling seven million records now is like it's not quite like purple rain thriller level, but it's fucking in the wheelhouse. You know what I'm saying? Those are Mariah Carey, whitney Houston, numbers back when niggas used to buy records. Those are the type of numbers those type of artists do back when you used to buy albums.
Speaker 3:So the fact that she's moved this type of weight in this type of climate is a major, major accomplishment. So shout out to her. I'll tell you something when sos came out you know my daughter's not like me, she doesn't make like bold proclamations, she's a little bit uh, more objective and a little bit more abstract. When the scissor came album came out, she just came to me one more. She's like daddy, this is the album of the year. I was like oh shit, you don't never talk like that. I'm like where it at. I'm like hand me the shit, like send that to me right now. And so she definitely has impacted the culture. Um, she definitely deserves all the flowers that she's getting.
Speaker 3:It's hard moving, selling seven million units in this climate. She's a four-time grammy award winner. She checks all the boxes, um, on a personal level, and this was probably like on some michael jackson print shit again is like. For me, I feel like her is the best female artist of this era. But scissors right there. And this is a special, special, special thing that she, that she's done, and it's hard to get recognized by this songwriting academy has a black woman. So kudos to her. Um, she deserves all the flowers and the recognition that she's getting. It's very, very well deserved. And I want to say this too, and we're going to have this conversation when we talk ilmatic in a minute, like for me, the numbers don't fucking matter unless the music is there.
Speaker 2:That's what hip-hop taught me and that's what I was raised on, and I'm not deviating from that standard yeah, you're right, but to piggyback on something you said about the um uh, since it's seven, seven million records is almost, like you know, purple rain level present day. We really need a metric for that, to be honest, because you know how we can adjust. You know all the prices towards with inflation you know, adjusted with inflation. We can adjust all the prices with inflation. Adjust it with inflation. We can say, okay, this costs this much now, but it would cost this much 20 years ago.
Speaker 4:So I feel like in the music industry.
Speaker 2:It needs to be a metric that can kind of weight it to really show how many units artists are moving nowadays in this streaming era. I don't know what the equation is, but somebody needs to come up with it.
Speaker 3:Well, you're right, and this is why I bought up Purple Rain. Well, purple Rain had a movie attached to it, correct and moved. I believe the first couple of years moved like 17 million units and I believe, if you were to, you know, input those inflation numbers and put that aggregate data together. The CISA seven million is comparable to a purple rain number. That that's 84, that's 83, 84 with a motion picture attached, right, this is 2024, with all these bullshit ass streaming rules that they change every six months for whatever artist they want to win, right, and she still, and she still moved it.
Speaker 3:And the quality of music is there. Um, the album, the album was great. I don't think it was a classic, but the album and the music on there was great enough that it's like, oh no, if you're telling me she moved seven million units off that album with the records that I heard that my daughter shared with me, it's like, oh no, I'm with that and for the most part I agreed with her album of the year sentiment. I, I mean the only thing the only knock I have for her is is that I would put her in first place and I would put sZA in second place, and and, and. For me, her is very prince-like in terms of her songwriting and full encompassing music ability she has she is the prince of this era to me, she and you could, so I guess right.
Speaker 3:So this would kind of make sZA michael jackson, like she, the one that's doing the big records and doing the big numbers, while the other one is the more intricate songwriter that gives more of the songs out to other people, because, if I'm not mistaken, her is written for sZA yeah, yeah, what drake said sZA got you wiped down she in the big three SZA, can wipe me down.
Speaker 3:Me too. Wipe me down whenever she want, because I'm on. Wipe me down, yeah, but no. But shout out to her it's a major accomplishment. It's hard to move that type of weight in this environment, in this climate.
Speaker 4:None of these guys that we be talking about is even sniffing those type of numbers right now, selling out towards like and stuck the way that she is so you know.
Speaker 3:So she, she deserves, she deserves all the praise right now. And the main thing that I like, if you go like, read the tea leaves about what she's saying about this accomplishment, she's giving credit to her, her whole team, and that's what I really like to see. She's not just over there like thank you, thank you, thank you. She's like no, no, no, shout out to this nigga and that nigga and everybody that contributed to the cause. That's what's up and that's what you want to see too. Yeah, absolutely, because it makes you connect to the artists more and know that they're real and not above the fray.
Speaker 1:Right, because we need that. We need that in today's climate because we don't have the the pool of candidates, if you will, in today's climate in comparison. So you need that, you need a scissor, you need a herd to be able to balance everything out the way it is right now, because the musical palette has changed so much.
Speaker 3:The consumer has changed so much so you need someone like a scissor to blend, balance that whole thing. No, it's it's. It's hard to make good r&b music that people are actually going to buy, right? I don't think people understand that it's hard to make good r&b this these days that people are actually going to stream, purchase, go see on tour and actually enjoy the music.
Speaker 2:That's a whole other conversation, Coop, because I think R&B doesn't have a true identity in 2024, if I'm being honest.
Speaker 1:They don't. Think about what we came through. When you got an En Vogue song or album, you knew what you was getting. When you got those legends back then during that time, you knew what you were getting right when you got, you know, when you got those those legends back then during that time, you knew what you were getting. You knew what you was in for. Right now you don't know what you mean, for everything pretty much sounds really the same they're on a different kind of time with the r&b now.
Speaker 2:You know well here.
Speaker 3:Well, here's her biggest accomplishment, really, in my opinion. Well, she did it her way. She didn't resort to some some formula to do it right, like yeah, it still sounds like a scissor album right, you know what I'm saying it sounds like scissor. When you listen to sos it's like you know it's a little toxic, it's a little dirty. You know what I'm saying? It ain't it ain't all the way cleaned up. It's a little muddy, but she's always been that way and we need that perspective.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean, because we get that toxic male energy. You know I'm saying we need to know the female mindset on the toxic side.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean well, here's the thing she's doing. Toxic, better than the guys. I ain't mad at it, me neither. Shout out to the ladies, you know, I mean shout out to sizzle yeah, major moves, ag, I going to flip it over to you.
Speaker 1:You wanted to talk about this AI stuff, man. You was tight about that all week, so you finally want to get it off your chest. You know what I mean? You was tight about this.
Speaker 3:Tell him why you mad son Tell him why you mad son.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean it's spooky hours, for was for real, bro, like I was just getting tight at these diss tracks, man coming through and my son was even more tight than I was. My man was pacing the house like trying to figure out if, uh, you know I'm saying these diss tracks are real or not. And he was like you know, and he had a good, a good solution. He said all you gotta do is submit it to ds. If it's on DSPs, we know that it's real. But therein lies the problem. Because you know you got to question, you know, conspiracy theory. You got to question the label's involvement with these AI leaks.
Speaker 2:If they're putting these out is like some sort of litmus test. You know what I mean To try to gauge if something's hot or not right, you know, before we officially put it out, because you can always fall back on if the people ain't feeling it like, oh well, it was just ai, it was fake. You know what I mean, instead of putting your official stamp on it as an artist. And what kind of time does that bring the culture in? Because I mean it's like really scary, you know when we can hear something but can't get full-on excited about it because we don't even know if it's like really scary. You know when we can hear something but can't get full on excited about it because we don't even know if it's the real deal Holyfield or not.
Speaker 2:So it's just, I mean, it's just a sad time to me and then, you know, I do think it's some label involvement with it and to the artist that's doing it right, because you gotta have some talent, some level of talent to put it together, to mimic your favorite artist, put it in the you know the ai system and let it come out how it comes out. But I'm just here to tell you like, if you're trying to showcase your talent, that ain't the way to do it. You know what I mean. Just, you know, go about it and be original and get it that way you know, don't you know I'm saying get your own original way, don't do it through through this ai bs.
Speaker 2:And then you got people like timbaland, when this ai started becoming a thing, saying like, oh, I never got to work with big and you know I want to. You know, do some big ai or whatever. And I'm like that's cute now because you can, like you know, put big's voice over your beats. But what happened? What happens when these AI programs start programming the beats like Timbaland.
Speaker 2:And then you got a Timbaland you know Timbaland type beat on the internet you know what I'm saying and people trying to purchase these beats that you didn't even do. So it's just a weird situation. That, you know, is just kind of disgusting to me. In hip-hop, and for this battle situation at that, it's kind of testing the waters a little bit because you can sit back as the real artist and be like, okay, that worked, that worked, even though it was AI. The fans like that. So you know, I can pick apart little things that work with the ai, then construct my diss track, but at the same time it may not hit as hard because people already done heard it on the ai let me jump in right quick, ag.
Speaker 3:That's the part where it's hurting the game is is that you're sitting up here doing the ai thing. You're taking creative license away from the artist when you do that. Right, because something that they may have legitimately been formatting, to say they might've been freaking, like what if Kendrick was working? Like what if this is the reason the Kendrick disc didn't come out, is because he was formatting some things, and some of the stuff that got said in his disc he's like oh fuck, I did kind of say something like that now, if I put it out, it looks like I'm copying the ai person.
Speaker 2:Leave the ai to english teachers, like my guy andrew, and shout out to me shout out to andrew.
Speaker 2:But but you're right, it dilutes. It dilutes everything and you know, just going forward, like I said, we don't even know how far, you know, this thing can be carried or how it will go. You know what I mean. It may come to a point where a full album may drop and we tapping in like yo, you know what I mean and it not even be the real thing. So it's really scary, you know what I mean. And then, like I said, producers haven't had to deal with this yet. And what pisses me off is and y'all tell me if I'm wrong I haven't seen any other genres really have to deal with this. I'm going to call it an AI epidemic, because this is going to be an epidemic to the game for real. Like I haven't seen pop or anybody else really have to deal with it. Like these emcees are going to have to deal with it, like these mcs are going to have to deal with it. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:And since we talking about uh esco today in the um, the automatic segment, he was on top of this back in uh when he released magic 3 on speechless 2. You know he said in the rhyme my guess is someone will replace your soul. Ai is only here to replicate and control imitating the original. They grabbed them a mold of the binary code. It's your patterns they stole. This is my tactical flow, the one they can't redesign. You can redo the voice, but you can never read my mind. You know Esco was spitting on that. You know what I mean. Like you can copy my voice, but how I get down with my pen is not going to be quite as authentic. You know what I'm saying, so no doubt well, here's the flip side to that.
Speaker 3:I hope this does make other people step their pen game up, because here's the reality of the matter. Oh no, these AI motherfuckers can't write like Nas. You know what I'm saying, but he's in that one percentile, though other 99. Right, you know what I'm saying, but he's in that one percentile, though the other 99.
Speaker 2:Right, but does it make them hang up their pen for real? You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:It will.
Speaker 3:I'm about to say some of these niggas need to hang up their pen or they need to fucking do better.
Speaker 1:Exactly.
Speaker 2:But then, if the labels can reproduce with AI, then what you need the artist for.
Speaker 1:You know you still need the face. You still need the face, though. You still need someone to be able to push the brand forward. You know what I mean, because you think about the artists today. They're no longer the actual artists. They're the face, they're the brand, they're the character. You know what I mean. The character is what sells the actual music. It's not really the music anymore, because no one is paying attention to what's being said in the music. They're paying attention to the acts. We're seeing it now. We're seeing everything on IG. This battle has turned into an IG war. I think someone posted that Rick Ross had like 32 different mentions of Drake in the last 24 to 48 hours. That is crazy.
Speaker 3:That is insane. You know how these niggas sound, do you remember? No-transcript turns cracking corny ass jokes on each other. Be like, yeah. Be like your head looks soggy like a water balloon, like you're saying stupid shit to your mans. That's how these two niggas sound right now. They sound corny as fuck.
Speaker 1:They sound corny as fuck, forget the mic. I'm going to flame you on IG. It's corny. So, yes, that's why AI has inserted itself, because you've got corny stuff going on on IG.
Speaker 2:We reached a new level, because before now the AI tracks would come out and they were still somewhat anonymous, right? But now this guy that did the Kendrick Dix track, he went viral and he's had to come forward and say, okay, that was me and this is how I put it together. You know what I mean and all that. So now it's going to be even more of a clout chasing type thing to do. You know what I mean mean, because if something does catch some fire, then you can come out and say, oh nah, that was me and so I'm gonna put my stamp on it.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean exactly, but ag to that point, I still think that the way it's being handled right now, it's only replaced how things were back then. Remember when, when Jay and Nas was going at it, even before Ethan Takeover came out, Jay did a photo shoot of Rockaway in Queensbridge. You know what I mean. A lot of people don't know that. He did the Rockaway ad in Queensbridge, at certain spots in Queensbridge that someone from Queensbridge would know. That was his version of the social media attack. Like I'm in your hood, I'm in your hood, my guy. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:And now today we didn't have that. Back then we had to see it in the magazine we flipped through the Source magazine, XXL magazine. We see the Rockaway ad and you had to be from there to understand, like yo, is he in Queens? That's not Brooklyn, that's different than Brooklyn. But that was that banter that was going on back there behind the scenes. Now today, everything is live. You can post anything on IG within a couple of minutes and it's going viral. Back then we had to read the magazine to see what the shots were looking like before the actual song came out.
Speaker 2:And that was late. By the time we got it, you know, by the time it reached us Facts.
Speaker 1:Facts Right.
Speaker 2:I remember that.
Speaker 1:I remember that when JB doing a little slick stuff like that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, I remember all that slick shit, but that's part of what made the back Okay. So here's the thing about it. Because of the way the timelines used to work, we used to be on the edge of our seat waiting to see what's these petty ass niggas going to do to each other next. Right, because they're both petty and petty a different way. It's like oh, what are you going to do? It's like, oh, you're going to pull up at QB and do a photo shoot. You're like he might do like, but this shit these dudes doing is corny. Like, like it's corny. They need to stop Like. I don't want to. I don't want to see, I don't want to see the property next door. What the fuck does that have to do with Drake?
Speaker 1:Right, it's corny talk you talking about properties and come on, come on Ross.
Speaker 2:Let me, let me ask y'all something else on the AI. Um, just to kind of compare and contrast to it, what would y'all say would be the difference in doing this and maybe monetizing it, versus, like the pock hologram at coachella, bring him back, because you know you're bringing back somebody's likeness that's not real. And then the ai is, you know, the voice, that's not really there, isn't putting out musical properties, that's not there. So what would y'all say is the difference in that? Because you know you can maybe even monetize it at some point.
Speaker 3:It's all some bullshit to me. I don't like the Pac hologram either.
Speaker 4:Right, you know what?
Speaker 3:I'm saying Like, because here's the thing about it too, is that you have people making money off that man's likeness while he's not here for one you feel what I'm saying?
Speaker 3:yeah, and so it kind of like it waters it down and authenticates it. You know, yeah, and and we but here's. But here we have to be, we have to be and I keep on saying this we have to be better standard bearers in this culture and stop putting up with the shit. You know what I'm saying? Like we have to stop allowing it. It's like when they pulled up the pock hologram at coachella, everybody went crazy. It's like, no fam, I didn't go crazy.
Speaker 3:If I want to hear pock, I play all eyes on me or me against the world. You know, like, like they could have. Just I've been to a snoop dog show without a hologram, where they just had to play pock, and it was the same reaction. Like you don't need the hologram of pock to get the reaction. Like Pac is there. You don't, because I've been in a concert stadium where they've done it and Snoop has performed two of America's Most Wanted and literally the entire fucking audience sings Pac's part for him. I paint a perfect picture Obama Hoochies with precision mind With the S-N-O-O-P dog.
Speaker 3:The whole crowd will do that for you. Yep, don't need no hologram.
Speaker 1:We all know the words yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but it's all like you said, coop, it's all nasty work and it had me tight. Like I said, my son was tripping like yo. I don't even want to hear nothing come out unless it's officially, you know, stamped. You know what I mean on the dsps and stuff, because the artists ain't rushing, you know, to their socials, they doing these little memes and stuff back and forth, but, like I said, they doing the little temperature check, litmus test, because when this stuff leaks out, they're not rushing to their socials and be like yo, nah, that's me for real, nah, that's AI for real. You know what I mean. You want to see what the response is and then work it from home.
Speaker 3:To quote J Cole on First Person Shooter they letting it rock because they love the mystique. Right Right, Facts right right facts, facts, yeah, they loving it too much. They loving it too much, yeah, because it's like Wizard of Oz. Step behind the curtain, bring your ass out on stage if you got a problem right, like I don't want to see Rick Ross at his house talking about Drake. I want to see Rick Ross on stage performing a diss record cool.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna be honest, I didn't like him when 50 was doing all of that. I didn't like the whole curly, whatever he was Taking baby mama shopping and shit.
Speaker 3:I didn't like that either. It's like oh, you're taking baby mama shopping. What the fuck that got to do with this beef? Because look here, you tell any chick you're taking her to Neiman Marcus. She about to get in the car, so we're going to Neiman Marcus. I'm with you. I'm with you.
Speaker 2:That deters you. It distracts from having to get in the booth and shout out to Sean for even bringing this up, because he told me like yo, this is before the diss track even dropped. Sean texted me like yo, if Ross come out with something, he going to be a distraction. And this whole situation, situation, the whole back and forth social media thing that's buying kendrick all the time in the world.
Speaker 1:he needs people talking about he on the clock, not really, you know hey look, um, I'm gonna say this we're gonna move on, but, um, we need to talk about kendrick. Um, kendrick's on a writer's block, but that's need to hit on there, let's go.
Speaker 3:I've been talking about his writer's block for years. Now that that I mean? No, let me just say this right quick that nigga hasn't wrote a dope verse since 2017.
Speaker 2:Don't do that.
Speaker 3:Don't do that Cool.
Speaker 2:So you gotta say cool, it's true, it's problem, it's problem.
Speaker 1:What it's true. It's problem what it's problematic.
Speaker 3:It's fucking 2024. This nigga ain't had a dope verse since 2017.
Speaker 1:The fuck is going on. Do you not think that Drake doesn't know that Drake know he has a writer's block?
Speaker 3:Drake's ahead. He watching the shit the same way we are.
Speaker 1:If you know, you know. You know, kendrick has writer's block right now. You got it. Yo, I don't want to get into that. He has writer's block. Yo, his auntie is an uncle. You got writer's block. I'm sorry, you get writer's block when you get something like that. You get writer's block when you say my auntie is an uncle, let me get off of that, All right. No, I'm stressed out.
Speaker 3:I'm stressed out, I'm stressed out.
Speaker 2:You stressed out Okay, Everybody happy. Oh, wow bro.
Speaker 1:What's the next topic? Dog, my bad, but he says he's on his uncle and he got writer's block. Now Shout out to Drizzy.
Speaker 3:And he's stressed out.
Speaker 1:Don't forget the stressed out part.
Speaker 2:I'm stressed out. It's like oh, you are, yeah, look.
Speaker 3:I'm sure being worth millions of dollars and literally taking five years off from what made you millions of dollars. Has you so fucking stressed out my G? What the fuck are we talking?
Speaker 1:about Doing burpees in a park got you stressed out.
Speaker 2:I'm trying to take five years off from my job because I'm stressed too and still get paid. I'm trying to take five days.
Speaker 3:I want five days, fuck five years. I want five days off from my job. Nigga, give me five minutes, give me five minutes.
Speaker 1:Yo. So let's get into it, man, let's get into the warm-up. We got to rank these Nas and Primo collabs fellas Because we got the single dropping at midnight. We got some other things in the I'll keep it right there, but we got the single dropping at midnight. We got to rank this. They got to hear from us first before they get the single tonight.
Speaker 2:Can I say something?
Speaker 1:real quick.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I want to speak to the fact that they're releasing a to get the single tonight. Can I say something real quick? Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know what I'm saying. I want to speak to that. The fact that they're releasing a single and this looks like it's pointing to something else for everybody disappointed out there that it's not a full-on project. You know, kudos to Nas for not setting himself up because at the end of the day, doesn't like none of Nas's albums need to share a date with Illmatic an anniversary date. So if we drop a project on the 30th anniversary of Illmatic, it will forever be compared to Illmatic. So shout out to Nas for not doing that and setting himself up, for, you know, even more criticism and stuff than he already gets.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of cats out there that's complaining about this union of Nas and Primo that all they've been asking for for the past decade is like Nas needs to do an album with Primo. Nas needs to do an album with Primo. Then Hip-Boy come with six straight albums. They're like man. They'd be better when he was with Primo. As soon as Nas pop up with Primo, they're like man. They'd be better when he was with primo. And as soon as naz pop up with primo, they're like ah, it's too late. Like you know, they should have did this 20 years ago. Like which one is it like? The fans can't be pleased one way or another. So you know. But at the end of the day, people want to criticize it. I'm here for the music, I just want to enjoy it. But I like the fact that naz said you know, let me put out a single versus an album, because I think that would have been a mistake if he did that. You know, especially on Illmatic 30th.
Speaker 1:No doubt. So let's rank fellas, Come on.
Speaker 2:Hold on before we get started. There's a few joints that I want to know if they're eligible for our ranking. I knew you was about to do this shit, or are they just honorable mentions? We got the Regeneration joint with the Symphony Orchestra, so scratch that. The Classic joint with Rakim KRS and.
Speaker 3:Kanye Hold on. Didn't Kanye do that beat and Primo just did the scratches.
Speaker 2:No, primo did the beat, yeah, primo did the beat.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Primo did the beat. That's not a.
Speaker 2:Nas-Preme collab, though Right, I'm just saying it's eligible. There's two versions. I think Rick Rubin did one and Primo did the other, if I'm not mistaken, but you can fact check me on that. So we crossing that one off and then probably not enough people heard it.
Speaker 3:The original version of Represent, the Jazzy joint no, because if we're doing that, we got to do the original version of memory lane too, which actually had a darker, more dense beat with a heavier bass line yeah, okay, so let's, let's, let's take those out.
Speaker 2:So we got nine joints to choose from. Y'all want to go from the last place to first place that's cool with me.
Speaker 3:that that's cool, let's do it.
Speaker 2:So I think we all can agree out the gate what the last joint is going to be right. Beat breaks Correct, so we'll put that at number nine in our rankings. So number eight. That was easy to do. From here on out it's going to be tough.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that was the easy part From here on out, it's going to be tough.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that was the easy part, and beat breaks are solid, but it just ain't up to par with what they've done previously.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was done for a reason. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm going to throw this in the hat for the eighth spot. It hurts me to do this, but I'm going to say second childhood.
Speaker 3:Okay. So I'm going to give you some pushback on that, because I have a feeling that your number eight and my number seven are the same, except for I got them reversed. I got come and get me at Nostradamus at number eight, and I'm going to tell you why Nostradamus at number eight. And I'm going to tell you why I think the beat to come and get me is better than to beat the second childhood. But Nas delivers with the content on second childhood on a level that I feel like he doesn't with come and get me, and so I have come and get me off Nostradamus at number eight it's close and I'm not gonna like give too much pushback on that.
Speaker 2:And my main thing would come and get me is he attacks that track. Right, it's the delivery, it's the aggression. You know that I gave it the edge over Second Childhood, but the content of Second Childhood is top tier. So you know, it depends. Like you said, we can judge the beat and we can judge what Nas is doing, what both Primo and Nas are doing, but for me the aggression in. Come and Get Me. He going taking shots at Jay. He's attacking the track. The hook is crazy.
Speaker 3:The hook is crazy. Can I provide you with a caveat that has always tipped the scales about that record for me. That makes me place it where I do? For sure, jay has a song on Volume 3 called Come and Get Me, and it's better than Nas and Preem's Come and Get Me.
Speaker 4:The first part the.
Speaker 3:Jay-Z and. Timbaland, come and Get Me is better than the.
Speaker 2:Nas and Preem, come and Get Me. I only agree with the first part, coop, when the beat switched, nigga, when he said I remove your roof, nigga, let the sun slide in.
Speaker 1:It was over when he did that. That's the first part, but once the beat switched, I'm like you know.
Speaker 3:But when he said really it's really a 36 without the gun, I'm thin, but when the gad is tucked, man, it's fun.
Speaker 2:If I'm busting it down, it's the first part of Jay's, then Nas is in the second part of Jay's, then Nas and then the second part of Jay's, Sean. What say you?
Speaker 3:I'm going to say, Sean, you got to break the tie.
Speaker 1:You got to break the tie. Majority vote. Come and get me. Holding it in my heart. Guys, I'm not going to lie. I was active, active, being crazy during that time. It was go time A second childhood man. That's my formative year man. I'm 21 when Second Childhood came out and everything except Second Childhood just made so much sense. It gotta be closer to the top than to the bottom. So I would have to go with honestly man, come and get me at number eight.
Speaker 2:Come get me at eight. All right, cool. So does that automatically slide Second Child childhood to seven, or does anybody think that one is below that?
Speaker 3:I have second childhood at seven. What say?
Speaker 2:you Sean yeah.
Speaker 1:I can do that Second childhood at seven.
Speaker 2:I'm in agreement with that. Now it gets a little crazy, this is where it get tight.
Speaker 3:This is where it get tight. This is where it get tight.
Speaker 2:I ain't even gonna jump out the window. I want one of y'all to say it first.
Speaker 3:I got New York State of Mind part two at number six. Nah, we not doing that? Yes, we are doing that. No, we are. We are doing that.
Speaker 2:No, we not look mama should have cuffed me to the radiator. Why not? It probably saved me labor from my block. And why cops yo hey cool. I had eight partners growing up.
Speaker 3:Eight turned to seven seven turned to six got two in heaven, six of us holding it now it's five rolling thick come on, man, okay, so.
Speaker 3:so on the flip side of that, where I was telling you about, come and get me where I feel like preem is there, but nas's traditional bar work and high level isn't there. Well, I feel the opposite about this. I feel like and people love the new york state of mind two part beat, like, like for me, the original version is one of Preem's three to five best beats, like in my opinion, and it's one of the best rap songs ever in my opinion, and so I can't. It's just Make your argument. I got it at number six. What say you, sean?
Speaker 1:I can live with that number six. Oh y'all, Wow Y'all.
Speaker 3:Hey G, what's your number six? What's your number six?
Speaker 2:I would put New York State of Mind too. See, I don't want to get canceled, but I would put New York State of Mind.
Speaker 3:What's your number? Six, though what's your?
Speaker 1:number six. Though what's your number six?
Speaker 2:Represent.
Speaker 1:No, what is he?
Speaker 3:doing that's wild.
Speaker 2:Yo listen man, how is it?
Speaker 1:We got to edit that. We got to edit that. No, we got to edit that. We got to edit that. We got to edit that.
Speaker 4:Why is it that much space?
Speaker 2:Why is it that much space between New York State of Mind 1 and 2? Explain to me why it needs to be that much space between those two tracks.
Speaker 3:No, okay. So, if I may, new York State of Mind Part 1 is in conversation with best rap song ever to start off an album Absolutely.
Speaker 2:It is in that conversation.
Speaker 4:It's New York State of.
Speaker 3:Mind and Ambitions as a Rider by Tupac as far as best, like best songs that start an album, a classic album Like. So it's not a knock to part two, but part one is just like that, like that and to think that straight-up shit is real and any day can be your last in the jungle, get murdered on the humble guns. A-blast niggas, tumble the corners is the hot spot filled with mad criminals who don't care, guzzling bids.
Speaker 1:We don't stare at the out-of-towners.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he's going crazy, he's going crazy on that.
Speaker 1:When he said catch me walking with him, you were not going to finish this. I'm going to put Adriel in the back for saying that, because that is crazy.
Speaker 3:I had to put him in the back, woody said catch me walking with a barf with my hat turned back. Love committing sins and my friend cell, crack New York State rats with a razor keeping under my tongue.
Speaker 2:New York State of Mind 2 is grimy man, it's grimy. Let me ask y'all this it's something about the beat. It got a little bit more swing to it than New York State of Mind Part 1. New York State of Mind Part 1 is the better beat, but Part 2 got a little bit of a swing to it. The tempo's different, right.
Speaker 3:Here's what I'll tell you. How about this? I used to not be a big fan, ag. Let me tell you something. I used to not be a big big fan of the represent beat. Like, I love the beat, but I wasn't a big big fan of it. And then he did that shit in the garden. I was like, yeah, I'm fucking tripping, so I want to stop doing that.
Speaker 2:All right, but y'all don't stop acting like I'm bugging because like if I can see that we put part two here don't act like representing is so much higher than that.
Speaker 3:You know what I'm saying. I got represented at number five. Okay, so I got represented at number five.
Speaker 2:That's what I'm saying. Y'all think it's like I'm bugging, Like it's switching two places.
Speaker 1:But what do you mean when you say it's more swing to it? What do you mean by that All?
Speaker 2:right number six. New York State of Mind, part two.
Speaker 3:Five part two no, ditty, how about this?
Speaker 2:I came in here ready to fight for New York State of Mind too. Man for real.
Speaker 1:You want to know what.
Speaker 3:You know what AG let's put represent at number six, and we're going to see how. No.
Speaker 2:It's two to one. Two, it's two to one, it's two to one. I gotta, I gotta, I gotta keep it a buck. You know I'm saying, and if I know, if we pulled it, it like represent a win over New York, state of mind too. But that's a. I gotta be able to compartmentalize a personal favorite versus like what's better and be objective. So I came in here thinking I could get that off. You know what I'm saying fight for it and then win. But y'all ain't let me have it. So all right.
Speaker 1:No, you can't, I'm sorry.
Speaker 3:Not overrepresent no.
Speaker 2:Sean, you can loosen up your Queens. Hat man All right.
Speaker 3:It's number six.
Speaker 2:It's number six. It's number six, so I wasn't bugging that much. To say represent as an alternative, because we go with represent as number five, correct?
Speaker 1:Yes, we can live with that.
Speaker 3:Now it gets crazy, right? This is where it gets interesting, because, yeah, go ahead. What's your number four, ag.
Speaker 2:Why y'all make me jump out the window first I'll jump out the window.
Speaker 1:I'll jump out the window. It makes sense. That's the third time.
Speaker 3:That's the third strike AG.
Speaker 2:That's the third strike I'm going to be on the next flight out. You know what I'm saying. I'm going to pull up on time.
Speaker 3:Look here.
Speaker 2:That flight from.
Speaker 3:West Virginia. I'm going to break every last one of them down, that's about 70 minutes. That's about 70-minute flight can be to sean, like like real, real quick. Oh yeah, for sure I'm gonna jump out the window. I'm gonna tell you this, and I've said this before I think that this is probably the most lyrically intense song of all time. But lyrics a song don't totally make I have. I gave you Power at number four.
Speaker 2:I'm not mad at that. What do you say, Sean?
Speaker 1:I'm not mad at that at all. I can live with that.
Speaker 2:That beat is somber, but it's not like.
Speaker 1:It's eerie, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't even know if you can listen to it and tell it's a signature Primo beat, unless somebody told you. You know what I mean it, unless somebody told you it's not.
Speaker 3:Here's the thing about it, though Preem actually gave him a soundscape to craft a fully fledged story. The level of lyrics. Lyrically, this is the manifesto to me In hip hop and of the collaborations, but in the totality of the songs, and hook wise.
Speaker 2:That's my favorite hook of all time and rap.
Speaker 3:How about this? Illmatic doesn't have hooks. If it was written has anything over illmatic, it's the fact that his hook game is supreme. On it was written, and this is the example of the hook game being supreme it is one of the best hooks of all time yeah, facts I might have took your first child scarred your wife, crippled your style I gave you power, made you buck.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what I love about Nas and this is a whole nother tangent Most of his hooks are extensions of the verses, so it bleeds into it perfectly.
Speaker 3:Well, it's a seamless transition, but that's what a hook is really supposed to be.
Speaker 2:Right, I'm not mad at that. What do you say, sean?
Speaker 1:No, I can live with that. I've always loved that joint, from day one, and that's like y'all said. It's not a signature Preem beat. I think the closest thing that Preem did with that was when he did a joint for Fat Joe. What was the joint? Peace God, I'm gone.
Speaker 2:I'm gone, I'm on my way Hold on you talking about on Jealous One's envy.
Speaker 1:That was on the. He had the black Yankee fitted on that joint. What's that album cover of Joe?
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's Jealous One's Envy, ain't it?
Speaker 1:It could be Jealous One's Envy.
Speaker 3:I think so. Yeah, that's Jealous.
Speaker 1:One's Envy. That's the closest he got to it from that actual, that sound palette, and it was something totally left field for Primo at that time. So yeah, dark Side, the Dark Side joint. Yes, thank you, bricks, that was Dark Side, dark Side.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:Dark Side and I Give you Power was the closest of that field that we got from Primo and always I love both of them records. So, yeah, I'm about to go with that one All right, so we had, we had.
Speaker 2:no, I think I know how the rest of it's going to.
Speaker 3:Uh, no, you don't, cause I'm about to jump out the window now, don't?
Speaker 2:do it.
Speaker 3:I got to jump out the window a little bit, cause it may be it's cause I've been listening to Illmatic all day. Don't do it.
Speaker 2:But I actually have. Nas is like at no, it's not. It's not Lyrically, he's crazy on Memory Lane, but that beat Nas is like come on, bro. You was listening to the Rockefeller cast when they were saying the beat was too happy on the radio.
Speaker 1:And I hate that to this day.
Speaker 2:I hate that to this day.
Speaker 1:I'm still mad about that to this day.
Speaker 3:Cut off them happy beats, cut off them flutes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, as soon as that beat drop. You know what time it is, you know freedom. In jail clips inserted the babies being born at the same time.
Speaker 3:The man is murdered at the beginning yo so let me, so let me share something with you, right, quick, the reason that I picked memory lane. And this was like one of those day of pics where I switched it up because I had noises like that. Number two, the second verse to memory lane is probably the best verse on Illmatic.
Speaker 2:Yes, I was mad that I wasn't at the Garden show to see him perform that acapella. That was crazy.
Speaker 3:The breath control was amazing, because that's one of the more. Because of how he did the rhyme pattern on the second verse, in particular the fact that at damn near 50 years old he was able to do it acapella, without like, without you hearing him go. Yeah, it was special, and so maybe I was just being nostalgic today, but memory lane is a. Memory lane is the most special record yeah that they never talk about from nasa's catalog it is because you're right, you're right.
Speaker 2:I'm going to ask you two questions though. Q Question number one Okay, If you just heard both instrumentals, as an MC used to rap, which one are you jumping on? I'm jumping on Nas' like, okay, that's number one. Number two second question so the title of the track that's dropping tonight. Did you see the title of the track? It's called Define my Name.
Speaker 3:And what song is that from? It's from Nas'. Like I knew you was going to do that bullshit.
Speaker 2:So which one belongs in number three, Coop?
Speaker 3:That's fine. You want to know what I got outvoted this time. That's why I went ahead and jumped out the window. I'm going to go ahead and jump out the window.
Speaker 2:I feel like I'm a IM representative, so something from IM had to be high for real.
Speaker 3:Now here's what I will tell you. Nas's Like is the only track that he made post-Illmatic that sounds like it belongs on Illmatic.
Speaker 2:It sounds like it goes right next to it. Ain't Hard to Tell.
Speaker 3:Yeah, like it's like if you went in, it Ain't Hard to Tell cut off. Yeah, yeah, like it's like if you went in, if it ain't hard to tell cut off. Yeah, and like Nas', light came on it would be like yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree yeah, and plus.
Speaker 2:Oh. Let me add this. Let me add this that video is iconic and for as much as Primo and Nas that their union is lauded and people want this project. For them, that's the only single that they've ever put out together.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's the only single that they've ever put out together. Yeah.
Speaker 2:That is the only one. See here's the thing.
Speaker 3:Their chemistry and their chemistry. I would only put Snoop and Dre's chemistry above it, because what they do is they provide the streets with that sound that just feed the aesthetic of what fundamental East Coast New York hip-hop is supposed to sound like. Nobody does it better. I know Preem's got epic stuff with Jay, he's got epic stuff with Big, but there's something about the stuff that he does with Nas that's rooted in the fundamental values of this culture and that's why the stuff doesn't normally make a single. And if you really think about it, nas is like really isn't a single. Look at the shit that's on, I am. It's like they made that a single right.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, absolutely, that, I Absolutely Absolutely. Nas is like his classic. Love that song.
Speaker 3:And I'd like to thank them for doing that instead of fucking making Hate Me Now. Or Dr Notboot, the first fucking single.
Speaker 1:I love Dr Notboot. I'm not going front.
Speaker 3:That was my mantra back in the day. That was my mantra. That was the handbook. That was the handbook.
Speaker 2:That was the handbook.
Speaker 1:It was that beat is terrible.
Speaker 3:I don't care how much handbook shit he write, that shit is terrible if he was moving a certain way.
Speaker 2:It was the handbook, so you know?
Speaker 3:no, I'm talking about the beat. I was like okay, he need to stop working with track masters right here a lot of people try to act like that wasn't on the original leak.
Speaker 2:but, dr Notboot, wasn't in fact on the original. I think it was 13-track bootleg joint that leaked.
Speaker 1:So what's number three? What are we going with there?
Speaker 2:Do you got anything to say about Nas' life, Sean?
Speaker 3:I mean you know, oh y'all man Memory Lane's number three. That's cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So we're all in agreement with what? Number one is obviously New York State of Mind. Like who said, arguably the greatest hip hop song of all time, it's in the running. You know what I mean of greatest hip hop songs of all time. So that's a good list that was a dope exercise, gentlemen yeah, that's a good exercise.
Speaker 1:We'll put it out there, can I?
Speaker 3:say something right quick about New York State of Mind For sure. Yeah, when he said my ramen is a vitamin, held without a capsule, that's the line that made me want to rap, because I had never heard nobody talk like that before. I was like what? I was like hold the fuck on. I'm like. He said what my ramen is, a vitamin? Hell without a capsule. I was like. I was like yo, I'm like this dude he's somewhere else where everybody else is not right now, in a different world.
Speaker 1:He's in a different world he's somewhere else.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he's somewhere else. That was the line, though you know what I'm saying. Like, for me, what's your line from new york state of mind that like stands out to you, that like made you be like yo, this thing right here, because you got to think. For a lot of us, like I wasn't familiar with live at the barbecue or halftime. I'm from the South so I didn't know about halftime. I didn't know about live from the barbecue or back to the grill. It wasn't until I heard Illmatic that I went back and heard those things. So for me, you have to understand, new York State of Mind is the first time I'm really hearing this nigga rap, yeah for me, coop with Nas has always been about the imagery with the pen.
Speaker 2:He doesn't say stuff like a normal person would say it, just a simple line like and take it in blood, like you know, throw my hat on my waves. You know what I'm saying Versus you know, I just throw them. You know, put on my fitted or whatever. You know what.
Speaker 4:I mean, I just throw them you know, put on my fitted or whatever.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean. Yeah, it's the imagery, and for me so that line in Illmatic on New York State of Mind was I ran like a cheetah with thoughts of an assassin and I was just like See, this is what I mean.
Speaker 3:So this is why it's the best song. There are so many lines on that album. How about this? That was the first rap song where I wasn't familiar with who the artist was or where he was from, but I could see where he was from, how he was talking when he said pick the Mac up. Told niggas back up the Mac spit. That was hitting niggas. One rant I made them backflip.
Speaker 1:Y'all killing me right now.
Speaker 3:man Heard a few chicks scream, my arm shook, couldn't look. Gave another squeeze, heard it, click Yo, my shit is stuck yeah.
Speaker 1:Yo look, y'all not talking about the opening line. Rappers are monkey flippin' With the fuckerism yeah.
Speaker 3:No, that's what. I mean. And then actually the best line on the song is actually it drops deep as it does in my breath. I never sleep. The sleep is the cousin of death.
Speaker 2:That's the one. That's the one. You know what I'm saying. I got a homie that actually lives in Greensboro Coop and he's a big time Jay fan. He texted me something about the Drake and Kendrick battle today and I was like, bro, don't text me about nothing to do with that battle. I'm going to say I'm on ESCO time, esco dropping at midnight, and he sent me back the Z's like he was sleeping. I was like don't sleep, because sleep is the cause of the death. And he couldn't even say nothing to that.
Speaker 3:I did him back with the line them Greensboro niggas love some Jay-Z.
Speaker 2:Well, he's from here, he's from WV2, but you know what I mean. He's living in Greensboro now. So shout out to you, mike, but um but um on the uh. What did y'all think when Premier revealed that he did that New York State of Mind first verse in one take and it was like yo y'all think that was alright.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, you heard what Prim said at the beginning, like you're ready to go in, you know, I mean, it's just. Here's the thing. During that time of hip-hop, when that came out, it changed the trajectory of how to write rhymes, how to pay attention to every single detail, piece by piece, and for him to do that in one setting. He was that what we knew, that he was the one we knew it was confirmed.
Speaker 3:I think I think fat joe put it best. I think fat joe said this a long time ago. He's like nas is the first nigga that came around that killed us softly. He's like everybody else was screaming. It was rah, rah, rah, and it was real braggadocious and you had to have the outfit and the gold chain that the nos killed us with his wordplay, with his imagery, with his scene setting ability, with his actual writing skill and mc ability. He's the first mc to kill you that way cool.
Speaker 1:He has attention to detail by every line.
Speaker 3:Second to none.
Speaker 1:Everyone else was doing that during that time.
Speaker 3:It's still second to none. It's still second to none.
Speaker 2:And that's what Cube said on his podcast. Cube said we was writing, but you put it in cursive. Cube told Nas that on Nas' podcast.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you put it in cursive.
Speaker 3:There. I mean Ice Cube would be the prototypical rapper who had the mantle before nas. It's like ice cube was insightful, introspective and intelligent, but he was also very loud and very aggressive and that was part of the appeal. Nas was the first person that just would say some shit. You'd be like whoa, what the fuck? Like what, what, what sometimes I stood on the block. Loose cracks produced stacks. I cooked up and cut small pieces to get my loop back. Time is ill-matic. Keep static like wool fabric. Apple for-matic.
Speaker 1:Yo, we talking about the ill-matic, let's go to the transition into ill-matic. Can I ask y'all?
Speaker 2:one question real quick before we do a transition. My bad, sean, for cutting you off Outside of the joints that that he any joints he produced for Nas like what's y'all's favorite premiere production. For me it's above the clouds, above the clouds yep are we talking beat or song beat beat.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna think about that one, bro, because I like kicking the door that's a good, I'll tell you the truth.
Speaker 3:I've always been partial to you. Know my steez okay but like it's always my shit. Like when moment of truth comes on and guru does that intro which I still think is one of the best intros ever and that beat drops. I'm like this is what rap's supposed to sound like. That's what that beat was. For me, it's like, no, this is what hip-hop sounds like.
Speaker 1:Right, right, so you know my sneeze is what comes to mind.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I don't.
Speaker 1:Okay, ready for this Illmatic Talk. Is that where?
Speaker 3:we're going. We going to the Illmatic 30 Talk or we got something else on the docket. Sean, what we got, let's go to the.
Speaker 1:Illmatic 30 Talk. I know we have some assignments to get this off real quick, but let me do this real fast. Fellas, respectfully. Yo, you're now tuned in to the Queens Bridge to find this Queens Wolf. We're going to do this the right way. I had to Bridge find this Queens Wolf. We're going to do this the right way. We're not representing West Virginia, we're not representing Charlotte or Atlanta, we're going straight to Queens baby. I just want to get my shit off real quick. I'm just messing with y'all man.
Speaker 3:I'm messing with y'all. We got to find a way to get the controls from this nigga. He doing public service announcements.
Speaker 2:what's he doing, bro? Like come on, he put on the queen shirt he started feeling himself false, like what is wrong with this dude?
Speaker 3:I'm gonna tell you what these queens niggas you want me, I get with these you know I get along with these queens niggas because they hate the yankees just as much as I do as an atlanta bra fan.
Speaker 1:But this nigga walk out Yo Queens, get the money Yo. I ain't cool.
Speaker 2:Oh God, I ain't even gonna lie. I thought we had an ad placement, bro. I was like we got a sponsor Yo. I ain't know, we had a sponsor.
Speaker 3:We are gonna get ad placement. We just gotta run these subs up. So, everybody, make sure y'all click, like and subscribe the Hip Hop Talks. We about to be everywhere. We're on every digital platform, soon to be. We're on every social media platform. We about to do a full out and all out run.
Speaker 2:That was wild, though I thought Sean was about to do an ad for PrizePix or something Like.
Speaker 1:I ain't know what was going on? Yo, I was about to hit that freestyle on him. Look, look, look.
Speaker 3:Look, I thought he was about to do a draft Kings one, because the NFL draft around the corner.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that wasn't in the playbook. I don't know what Sean's doing.
Speaker 3:Man he done had too much to drink. This nigga Peyton Manning at the line he up here calling. Omaha and shit. Omaha, omaha, omaha, omaha, I call it crazy Omaha.
Speaker 1:I did Mike D on y'all. I call it crazy Omaha, I did a Mike D on y'all.
Speaker 2:But you know, yo boss Paul Illmatic 30.
Speaker 1:Illmatic 30. Illmatic 30. Illmatic 30. Yeah, so for Illmatic 30, as you guys know for those of you who don't know Nas is doing a lot of stuff. July 19th he will be actually at the Palace Theater, if you guys know, whoever been to one of these concerts he's actually going to go back to the National Symphony Orchestra as well. The 30th anniversary of Illmatic, we might be giving out some tickets from Hip Hop Talks. We'll let you guys know. Continue to check us out on Twitter, on all the platforms that we're utilizing, and we'll put some notes out there and let you know we're going to do some tickets for you all for 30th anniversary of MADDIC and National Symphony Orchestra.
Speaker 1:This will be Nas' third time doing the National Symphony Orchestra, which is really really heavy. No other artist has an album like this that's being played on that kind of scale. You know what I mean For that kind of being played on that kind of scale. You know what I mean For that kind of audience, for that kind of audience Playing an album like Illmatic. That tells you how important Illmatic is, not just to hip-hop culture but just to everybody, to everything, because it paints so much of a vivid picture of the life of anyone in that particular arena, which is not speaking from a Queensbridge perspective, but it's synonymous to every other hood, no matter where you're from. So the fact that Son is going to be playing at the National Symphony Orchestra again and also commemorating the 30th anniversary of Illmatic it's a major feat. Definitely, we'll let you all know what that's looking like as far as tickets and things of that nature that we may be giving out to some good fans out there, but we'll definitely be keeping that posted for you all.
Speaker 2:I want to say to that that's something to really behold. Man, if you can't afford to go to the show or you know we're close to where Nas is going to be performing with the symphony orchestra, if you got Amazon prime, hop on there and check out Nas performing at the Kennedy center with the orchestra, because they, you know, filmed it and they have it on Amazon prime as a movie. Like it's really a dope experience to see, you know. You know, perform that in front of a live orchestra in its entirety at that. So you know, perform that in front of a live, uh, orchestra in its entirety at that. So you know it's. It's a crazy experience.
Speaker 3:I'm glad he's doing that again for real. Well, I'm glad that he's doing the palace theater in albany, because that's upstate and them upstate niggas love some boom bap and this is the boom bap rap album. This is the one. And he's also doing, uh, the rhode island philharmonic, and I think that's going to be in Rhode Island, that's going to be at the Vet Memorial Auditorium and here's how important this album is.
Speaker 3:I want people to understand this the woman who is the orchestra director for the Rhode Island Philharmonic. Her name is Tanya Miller. Tanya Miller is the youngest conductor ever of a Canadian orchestra, when she was 33 years old, and so he is standing next to the accomplished of the most accomplished in their respective fields. This woman is the youngest person not woman youngest person ever to lead the Canadian orchestra, and so think about somebody for the world that she comes from that sees Nas and sees Illmatic and is like, yeah, come over here. Like the symphony that she, the youngest symphony she ever run is the victoria symphony in vancouver, over leading a band over 50, a 50 piece band, at 33 years old and so he's standing next to people who are legendary and iconic in their respective fields as well.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and so like we as hip-hop fans need to understand, uh, the transition and and how really epic it is for somebody from our culture to be standing next to a woman like that is as accomplished as she is, for as long as she's been accomplished. When the former director of the Rhode Island Philharmonic passed, she was immediately named interim director. She comes with immediate cashier and respect, although she's Canadian.
Speaker 2:That's dope info Coop. I do my research, I got to do my research.
Speaker 3:I got to do my homework.
Speaker 1:Mike K would have been spinning when he was talking. That he would have been like. What is that? Nonetheless, let's keep it moving. That's for AG he would have been like yo, what's going on? Oh wow, yeah, I know, man, I'm a drinking um, so cool. So talk to us about the. The ball work for illmatic man, because the ball work is, to me, is the highlight of the of the album. You'll talk to us about that, man.
Speaker 3:I think here, I think in order to understand lyrically where he's at, we have to understand the past first. You know what I'm saying and so always tell people Illmatic isn't Illmatic isn't 95, isn't 94 on, illmatic is 86 to 94. It encompasses that era, that movement and that feeling, and this is the best way that I can describe it to people. I've been fortunate enough to like go to Italy and to like see the Sistine Chapel and see the frescoes on the ceiling. I'm a. I'm a big like. I'm big in the. I'm big into the arts, not just hip hop, Like. I love poetry, I love, you know, just avant-garde.
Speaker 3:Raphael was slated to do the Sistine Chapel first. Raphael still has one of the best hands in the history of painting and art, okay, and so when you go into the Sistine Chapel, the first half of the Sistine Chapel that you see is actually Raphael's work. It's super detailed, it's very, very, very, very complex. It's high, high level shit. Okay, and so in this instance, 86 to 94, we have a lot of Raphael's. We have a KRS one, we have a rock him. We have a cool G rap. We have a big daddy cane. We have an LL Cool J. We have a slick Rick, we have a Rakim, we have a Cool G Rap, we have a Big Daddy Kane, we have a LL Cool J, we have a Slick Rick, we have a Chuck D. We got us some Raphaels. When you get to a certain part of the Sistine Chapel the hand doesn't change that much, but the hand gets a little bit more slightly defined and the color scheme gets better. That's because Michelangelo finished the sistine chapel. And no disrespect to rafael, because he's one of the greatest painters of all time. But michelangelo is probably the best painter of all time and you don't understand how truly immaculate and brilliant and great michelangelo is until you see how he leveled up what Raphael did and he was actually a protege of Raphael.
Speaker 3:Illmatic is our portion of the Sistine Chapel that Michelangelo did. It's like, oh no, we've got guys that have operated on that level but not quite with the same hand and not quite with the same full scope of understanding how to use color schemes, the color schemes on Illmatic or that vivid imagery that we're talking about on New York state of mind. It's different, it's a level up from his predecessors. Now, at the time nobody wanted to admit it, but has time has shown time is ill-mannered. Rafael is not better than michelangelo. Nobody in italy believes that either, trust me. I had the conversation.
Speaker 3:The color schemes and the detail like the detail between rafael and michelangelo is similar. So in this case, if you wanted to use Rakim as an example, oh no, the hand is similar. The hand is all time great and brilliant, but the colors that Michelangelo used it pops more, it stands out more, and that's what Illmatic is. Illmatic is Michelangelo's portion of the Sistine Chapel. Yeah, that's a good analogy. For real it is. That's what it is Like. It's not like the Sistine Chapel didn't exist before, but there's something about the way Michelangelo used the color that it just hit us different updating the formula.
Speaker 3:You know, updating the formula and so it's as special as it gets is what I'm saying. If you ever get, I encourage anybody if you ever get the opportunity, even if you want to go, don go to Italy. It's like motherfucker, go to France and fly over for a day and go see what I'm talking about. You will see the difference in the hand. It's just the elevation and the process of it. Nas is the elevation and the process of the high-level lyricism that Big Daddy, kane and Rock M and Cool G Rap and all those guys birthed. He is the updated formula. Illmatic is the centerpiece of that, and so it is literally and people understand this this is an album that I still consider to be the greatest rap album of all time, and a lot of people feel the same way. It sold 63 000 copies this first week. It didn't go gold until january of 1996, almost two years after its release. There has never been an album in any genre of music that is revered. The way that this album is, that doesn't have the sales attached to it, and that's part of what makes it so important. It's also our quality control album, guys. It's the album that says numbers may not lie, but they don't mean everything. Facts. This is the album where you can stake that claim on. This is the album where you say, oh, I don't care how many fucking units you move, can you take that shit to the neighborhood? What the niggas in the neighborhood say about it? Like, let's look at an album that came out six months before doggy style oh, doggy style did five mil Illmatic's quality and critical acclaim and and and the way it's revered. You would think Illmatic did $5 million too. And that is mostly because this guy is rhyming at a level that, quite frankly, we have not really seen outside of Rakim's prime and Biggie's prime and his own prime, which transitioned into 96. Prime which transcends transition into 96. It is the best collection of rhymes that you can understand that come from a complex place and a complex structure in a man's mind that we can all relate to. This is the album that, lyrically, is succinctly new york, but I say this is somebody from atlanta and from charlotte. Oh no, I felt like he was talking about the neighborhoods I grew up in. I know niggas in Houston that feel the same way, niggas in Cali that feel the same way, and that's what puts it lyrically ahead of all those other projects from New York rappers before, because the way he described those Queensbridge projects it sounded like all our projects.
Speaker 3:And the hardest thing for a great writer to do is to connect with the audience and never has there been a high-level lyrical album that connects with this culture and the fabric of who we are in hip-hop the way Illmatic does. There hasn't been an album like it before, there hasn't been an album like it since and there's not about to be. It is the greatest rap album that's ever been made. Period, point blank. For that reason, when that shit wasn't selling, go to any fucking hood. It's like yo. He talking like it's my neighborhood. I know niggas that don't like Nas. I know niggas down here that's like yo, I don't fuck with Nas. I'd be like how you feel about Illmatic? Be like that's that shit, shit. I said I didn't like Nas. I didn't say I didn't like Illmatic. Don't nobody. When have you ever heard somebody say Illmatic's not a classic?
Speaker 2:Never.
Speaker 3:Where we can go to fucking Omaha, nebraska, right now. My nigga, there are niggas that know how to quote that shit. That's a fact.
Speaker 2:It's coming from the pen of somebody. He penned that when he was like 18, 19 years old.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it he pinned that when he was like 18, 19 years old, you know. So it's it's it's rap's best album. It is the connective tissue for us in every hood and every neighborhood. Like he might come from the largest housing project in America, but he explained all our housing projects in that album and he explained it masterfully, intricately, and he expressed it with just enough despair and somber tone that we all gravitated towards it. It's like, oh no, that dark cloud is over me too. That dark cloud on the world is yours. It's like, oh no, that's over me. Oh, it's like, oh, there's shootouts in your neighborhood. That's funny. A nigga just got shot the other day in my neighborhood, in front of me. You know what I'm saying. He talked about things that were relatable to us coming from our neighborhoods, but he talked about it on such a high level, without going over our heads. It is literally the most magnificent feat in the history of hip hop to talk at a high level without going over anybody's head.
Speaker 2:To your point, Coop. I had been to New York as a youth, but Illmatic came out when I was 13 and listening to the album made me understand New York as a youth. But Illmatic came out when I was 13 and listening to that album made me understand New York from the imagery more than actually stepping foot in New York prior to that. You know what I mean. That's what his pen did for me, anyways.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but that's what I mean, that sentiment that you share. That's the worldwide and the nationwide sentiment about this album. It is the only rap album that we have like that. It is the only rap album like like there are niggas in new york that don't love a quimini the way niggas in the south love a quimini. There are niggas in the midwest that don't love doggy style the way niggas on the west love love dog. You get what I saying. There are a lot of niggas that still ain't even listened to Peyton Full by Eric B and Rock M.
Speaker 3:Everybody fucks with Illmatic in every fucking neighborhood in every part of the country, because he was talking to us and through us about his neighborhood, but he made it sound like our neighborhood too. It's the most impressive job of lyricism Not the best. It's the most impressive job of lyricism Not the best, it's the most impressive job of lyricism that's ever been recorded on mic.
Speaker 1:Absolutely Well said. Coop Well said. No doubt you smoked that.
Speaker 3:Can I submit something to you that I don't think I realized till today? I wear pink a lot. I wear pink a lot for my cousin Shonda. She died of breast cancer a few years ago. She was like my big sister, although she was my cousin.
Speaker 2:Condolences, man.
Speaker 3:When she died I cried, but it wasn't until a little bit after she died that it changed the way that I felt and the way that I approached things. The guy that is rapping on One Time For your Mind and Halftime. You never see that guy again and I think a lot of it has to do with the fact of what happened to Ill Will and I think Ill Will's passing, not when he passed the vitriol and the braggadocious rhyme was probably still there, but when death settles on you for somebody so close, close, that reflective and poignant style that the rest of Illmatic has outside of halftime and one time for your mind. I think there's a direct correlation between him losing his best friend who was his DJ, and it switched his style because it switched his mood like I ain't been the same since Shonda died, like emotionally it did something to me where it's kind of like it switched his style because it switched his mood Like I ain't been the same since Shonda died, like emotionally it did something to me where it's kind of like ugh.
Speaker 2:Jungle said he got real serious after that. You know, right, right.
Speaker 3:So all the bragging rhyme shit stopped and the introspective lyrics that made Illmatic what it is began to take shape Right Half time and one time, for your mind, are the large professor produced tracks outside of it Ain't hard to tell they're the early tracks. Nomadic got built around the large pro tracks Right. So Ill Will's death has something to do with the somber style that we see.
Speaker 3:That's what death does to you. That's what death does to you when somebody you love and you're so close to Like. It might affect you right now in the sense that you might cry, but it might change your whole fucking mood and tone after a while, Absolutely.
Speaker 2:That's a great observation, great observation.
Speaker 1:Appreciate you. Coop Yo AG. I'm going to flip it to you, bro. Talk to us about the production. Talk to us about just having that first setup when it comes down to a super producer.
Speaker 2:That was probably an embodiment of the first era of our super producers on one album, right, right yeah, just piggybacking off of that, like ilmatic in general, set the tone for a lot of different things going forward in the culture with the trends, um prior to that, and you know everything is just a cycle, it comes back around. We're seeing that present day people doing one producer, you know, one artist albums, which was the format you know, in the late 80s, early 90s, you know, up until L-matic. But Nas was such a prodigy that all the best of the best wanted to work with him. You know what I mean. So, coming up under Large Pro, you know Large Pro was able to introduce him to the Pete Rocks, the Premieres and the Q-Tips and get them to want to contribute to the album, like they was, all you know, happy at the chance to do that because they saw the potential that Nas had and knew that he was going to be the second coming of Rakim, that he was the chosen one and um, the only person in recent years I noticed no, that said no to being on the album was, uh, eric Sermon. I believe he said in the interview that he could have been on Illmatic and chose not to with, you know, whatever else he had going on at the time.
Speaker 2:But you know they all came together for a very, a very singular purpose, you know, to create a classic. You know, and that's hard to do when it's a lot of hands on deck, you know what I mean To have one singular vision and then to execute that vision and we talk about the competition in hip hop, you know, with the battling they was battling each other on the Illmatic album. I remember hearing Premier say he heard, you know, q-tips beat for one love. Like you know, I got to go change my drums up on Represent or I got to, you know, switch this up. Switch that up Because they wanted to give Nas all their best. Got to switch this up, switch that up because they wanted to give Nas all their best.
Speaker 2:Going forward, that template of getting the best producers in the game to come together for one MC, that went forward and a lot of people tried to adopt that style. It was successful for some people and other people it wasn't. The blockbuster joint just came out a little while ago, but I mean that format. But that format overall was created with um, with illmatic, which also said other trends going forward, like the baby on the album cover, and um, you know, which was adopted by, like you know, little wayne did it, and then, um, I mean it's countless, you know we could. Was adopted by, like you know, lil Wayne did it, and then, I mean it's countless, you know, we could sit here all day and name you know artists that did the child picture on the album cover. So it just created a lot of trends in hip hop.
Speaker 2:And then, in real time, I remember the only gripe people ever had about Illmatic was the length of the album, you know. But the producers got in there and they trimmed the fat and said this is all. We're going to come out with a perfect 10 tracks. And then once again, you fast forward to present day. You see more of those concise records, you know. I mean you had the Kanye run where he was doing the seven song albums, and then you're seeing grizzell to put out eight, nine and ten uh track albums. So ilmatic was the template for a lot of things moving forward, whether if it was in the early 90s right when it came out, or if it came back full circle, um, some years later. But you know, it's the standard bearer for a lot of things in hip-hop and the production template was uh was one of those no doubt, no doubt.
Speaker 1:Very well said, ag. Very well said, bro. So I'm we talked about the lyrics, we talked about, uh, we talked about the production. I'm gonna talk a little bit about the impact now, how it impacted new york at that time. Um, those of you who are either from new york or from outside of new york or just watching from, I'm going to talk a little bit about the impact and how it impacted New York at that time. Those of you who are either from New York or from outside of New York or just watching from the sidelines. New York was at a fever pitch in 93, 94. And you know it's funny because Illmatic dropped four days after my born day.
Speaker 1:I remember, before Illmatic came out, there was such a buzz about this kid out of Queensbridge. No one knew who he was, no one knew his name, no one really knew exactly what was going on. We called him Kid Wave. We were saying, like yo, who is this kid, kid Wave? You know, being out of Corona, we was looking at it like yo, kid Wave is some kid over there doing graffiti and breakdancing. We think he a lyricist, but we don't know. You know what I mean. So it's one of those things where we were trying to figure out where this buzz was coming from. You heard them all live at the barbecue, you heard them all back to the grill. You heard them all different joints that was coming out, even the Zebra Head soundtrack. That's when Halftime came out, before the album even came out in 94. So you knew what you had in him, but you didn't know what was going to happen and when it was going to come.
Speaker 1:Because during this time, the thing about-hop, during this time we were still transitioning or trying to keep from the transitioning of the West Coast. The West Coast had everything going live and Wu-Tang came out. What in 93.? So in 93, you had the West Coast transition, you had Doggystyle, you had the Chronic still taking place everywhere. Chronic and Doggystyle was all on MTV videos and everything. Wu-tang came through with a whole different surge that brought the grittiness back.
Speaker 1:And here comes Illmatic, in the middle of all of that, in April of 94, april 19th to be exact. And now you've got something that's taking it back to the essence of MCing that we've never seen before since Rakim. And now everyone is saying this guy sounds like Rakim, a little bit of Fuji rap. But he also got that radical approach in a sense of an ice cube. So now you're talking about the embodiment of some of the most prolific lyricists during that time, bridging the gap.
Speaker 1:Everyone in Queens and outside of Queens felt like at that time that hip hop was going through a whole transition. Because now you're talking about bridging the gap and it's funny that Nas had a song called Bridging the Gap, because during that time I felt like he's bridging the gap from the boom, from the, the base field, to the boom bap. And now we're all here to the, to the, to the genesis of Illmatic. And the vibration in the city was so crazy because New York didn't catch up to Illmatic. I'm going to be completely honest. A lot of times I talk to people from that era we didn't catch up to Illmatic until it Was Written, came out.
Speaker 1:It Was Written came out, I circled back to Illmatic you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:I had Illmatic on a black cassette that somebody wrote on it saying Yo Matic, because we couldn't keep up, we didn't know what this guy was talking about. We heard the Genesis intro. It was the Wild Style joint. We're like yo, what is going on here that you can find at that time. And it came out during a time where hip hop was really trying to figure out what direction it was going to go into. Because you think about again, Doggystyle, the Chronic, the Sonics, and those albums were so vast and it was so robust that it took hip hop to a different sphere. So now you know when it comes back, you have a collection of producers who we consider the Mount Rushmore producers during that time. Never done before, Never had all of these guys on one album. Now you've got this child prodigy who's writing this album starting at the age of 16 of his inception of Illmatic, and now he's piecing together a classic. He's piecing together a masterpiece, as Kool eloquently been able to articulate to us, and, like you mentioned, the production piece brought it all together to bring what we have now today the impact.
Speaker 1:For me as a young boy during that time it was more of a renaissance for New York hip hop, because now it changed the trajectory of everybody coming after. It changed the trajectory of the bigs of the J's, even from Wu-Tang. They had to change their trajectory because now they got this young kid from Queensbridge writing something so prolific, line for line, bar for bar, and he's paying close attention to the details of what he's saying from a Queensbridge perspective, like Coop mentioned. But it resonates from every borough, from every city and also across the nation, because now you can identify what he's saying. When he's saying my man got shot, when he's saying that my man went to jail and his girl cheating on him, some people from different areas can identify with that. But he's talking about everything that he's seeing within Queensbridge, not what he's seeing in the world. He's talking about what he's seeing in Queensbridge.
Speaker 1:So again, one of the things that stands out to me for this, as we continue to bring this to a full circle, when you talk about the lyrics, when you talk about the production, when you talk about everything that it captures, Illmatic is the perfect capsule that if I were to put it together right now and said, 30 years from now, 40 years from now, someone asks me what is hip hop? If I'm at my old age and I'm giving the kids the knowledge I'm going to say go listen to Illmatic, you will know everything you need to know about the real, true golden era of hip hop. Because now I'm bridging everything from that 88 legacy. I'm taking all of that with me. I'm going to amplify it.
Speaker 1:88 was the legacy year 93, 94, Illmatic was the amplification of that. Nas amplified 88 Legacy and it stopped right there and then everything else boomed after that. It was like the Big Bang Theory. It boomed after that because now you got Ready to Die coming out, you got Reasonable Doubt coming out, you have other things that came out and now we're here.
Speaker 2:Nah you spitting, then that echoes Coop sentiments and cause. I always tell people it's hip hop before Illmatic and it's hip hop after Illmatic. So if you're introducing somebody to hip hop, you started Illmatic and you could go either backwards or forwards.
Speaker 3:right, you can go either way. It closed the book on an error and then it opened up and then it but. But the closing of that book is what opened the floodgates for the next era to step in. Because here was the reality of the matter that album was so fucking good, niggas knew that they couldn't do that anymore.
Speaker 3:You had to do something different because you couldn't fuck with that album yeah you can't now, I know now I want people to understand something I saw somebody bring up. It takes a nation of millions, which I think is the top five rap album and one of the few albums that's in conversation with ilmatic for greatest rap album of all time no doubt it takes a nation of millions is a dissertation on the black condition in america.
Speaker 3:Facts ilmatic is the kid that's living the black condition in America and expressing it to us. He's expressing the black condition and also I want people to understand this because it takes a nation of millions, has a lot of Farrakhan attached to it. You have to understand. It did not resonate in the South because this is more of a Christian-based Bible belt. Because of that, Illmatic did not have that veil hanging over it, so it penetrated in areas that it Takes a Nation of Millions did not. Because of that, it's the kid expressing the Black condition and disseminating it and living the condition it Takes a Nation is the breakdown of the condition from an articulate almost like Chuck D is like a professor on it takes a nation of millions. And this is what I mean about Nas not going over our head. It's like no, you might feel you might see that nigga on the corner standing next to you at the bus stop. You don't feel that way about Chuck. On it takes a nation. Chuck is talking from up here on. It Takes a Nation, he talking from the top.
Speaker 2:Nas is talking like he's standing on the street corner with you, right, that's the difference, that's the difference.
Speaker 2:And can I go on a quick tangent for the legacy of this Get a quick ISO. This is the Coop's point. He said that everybody had to do something different because they know they couldn't do that right. But what pisses me off about this whole situation is it's Nas' greatest achievement, his crowning moment, but it's also the darkest cloud that hangs over his head because people won't allow him to do something different. We've never heard anybody say, 20 years into Snoop's career, like yo, snoop, we need another doggy style, we expected another doggy style out of you. Same thing with Raekwon. Nobody's asking Raekwon for another Cuban Lynx. But Nas isn't afforded that same grace. And I don't, you know, quite understand that. You know. And people say when they're debating me like well, nas never outdid Illmatic, he peaked early or whatever. They try to flip the narrative. Well, neither did your favorite rapper how about this AG?
Speaker 3:none of their, well, neither did your favorite rapper. He has a g. None of their favorite rappers outdid Illmatic either.
Speaker 2:That's the part people need to understand your favorite rapper didn't outdo Illmatic exactly so he hasn't redone it, but your favorite rapper hasn't even done it at all. You know what I mean. So that's the thing that bugs me. It's that weird dichotomy about Illmatic that people have. Like, you know, it's the standard barrier, it's the mountaintop, but they won't let Nas move past it. At one point he was even getting frustrated at around the 25th anniversary and said let's, you know, move past Illmatic. But I'm glad he's opened up to celebrating it again for the 30th. But at the same time the fans just need to let him evolve.
Speaker 2:This was a 19-, 20-year-old kid whose circumstances changed, you know, like Nas even said on Locomotive. He said I've been you know what I'm saying rich longer than I've been poor. I guess you know what I mean Because you look at his career. You know he was out of there at 19, 20 years old. So they need to let him evolve as a man. So you can hold Illmatic as a standard bearer, but don't hold it over Nas' head like something that he has to achieve again in his career to be stamped or be verified. You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:Because Go ahead, coop. Well, ag, I don't mean to cut you off. What really happened is that he touched such a poignant fabric in all of us in Black America, in inner-city angst, that the streets just never really wanted to let him go. Nobody else. Jay is talking from the perspective of a hustler in the streets. You get what I'm saying. He's not talking about the streets the way Nas is. He's talking about the perspective of a hustler in the streets. You know what I'm saying. Chuck D is talking about the black condition the way a professor would at Columbia or at Harvard. You get what I'm saying. Big is talking about his struggles during the daytime but he's going to party at night. You know what I'm saying. Nas is talking about our condition in the daily, and the streets never wanted to let him go. That's what happened.
Speaker 2:The ghetto reporter, and that's why, when I was 13 years old, my favorite rappers were Ice Cube number one and Scarface number two, until I heard. Illmatic, and then that changed. From that point on, since the time I was 13 to now, nas has been my favorite rapper of all time.
Speaker 1:But it goes back to like you were saying before. You and I had this talk before. Like before, illmatic is like that raw, uncut crack, never been stepped on. Everybody got that feeling from it. They were chasing that feeling since then. It's like a fiend getting shot up. I don't want to make it too more, but it's like a fiend getting shot up. I'm chasing that high.
Speaker 3:Illmatic is chasing that high. I'm going to tell you something?
Speaker 1:That's exactly what it is, Sean. I'm going to tell that I'm chasing that high.
Speaker 3:No, I'm gonna be honest with you, he's chasing that high, no, so I'm gonna tell you something. That's exactly what it is, sean, because I'm gonna tell you what. I've been some places and I've done some things, and so I've been to the country that has the most pure and uncut cocaine in the world okay, because my best friend lives there. Oh, you'll never go there and try their product and then come back here and touch any of the product here because you're like oh, this shit been stepped on 20 fucking times. That's what ilmatic is. It's the product that hasn't been stepped on, and once you taste a product that hasn't been stepped on, it changes the way that you deal with other products moving forward. It's like I'm not doing that fucking little penny, any shit that y'all doing. I done had the real deal.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 3:You can't find it anywhere else.
Speaker 1:You're searching for it. Think about that first. I ain't gonna say that, but you're searching for that. You know what I mean. I need to get that again and you're searching for it.
Speaker 2:AG searches for it all the time but I mean Y'all, you wild dog, show you wild Yo. But let me ask y'all this Do y'all think that that's the reason, since he is the one person that provided that uncut raw, that's the reason why it's held over his head versus anybody else Like Jay? Don't have to make another reasonable doubt, right? And so you're going to go to the supplier of that uncut raw and say, yo, I need that again. So do you think that that gives some credence to the people still wanting that illmatic after all this time? Because that that level is not put on nobody else but Nas.
Speaker 1:Because you can poke holes, pause in reasonable doubt, if you really want to. You can actually poke holes that are ready to die, to be quite honest, yes you can, absolutely. You also think about the fan base too. The Nas fan base is a very interesting and eclectic fan base respectfully, a very interesting and eclectic fan base respectfully. And they have become Nas' enemy in some aspect, to be quite honest.
Speaker 3:They're his greatest ally, but sometimes his worst enemy, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Jay fans will rock regardless, no matter what Jay drop. Jay drop 4-4-4, and they still rock with Jay and we know what 4-4-4 is and what it's not. They let Jay evolve. They let Jay evolve. They let him evolve.
Speaker 3:Well, that's what I'm saying. They let Jay evolve because Jay came like this and so they gave him the ability to go like this. Nas came like that.
Speaker 1:Yes, the jump yes.
Speaker 3:And so him trying to go into a lane. When, when he talked like this first and then he's like, well, I'm gonna go here this time and then I'm gonna go there, they like no, you're supposed to go right here. And it's like no, fam, you can only go there once, but see but see, this is.
Speaker 2:This is what bugs me, though, because people like to call good kid mad city the west coast hillmatic because of how poignant it is and it gives the full content experience. Right, I do that. Nobody is asking kendrick to make another good kid mad city, like you know what?
Speaker 3:okay, so I'm one of those people that say that, ag and I'm gonna say this respectfully about good kid mad city it's because kendrick is the first person to come out of that region to explain the black condition in such a poignant manner. But that's not how they get down either and that's why they let him spread his wings Right. You feel me Absolutely.
Speaker 3:You have to understand the time in which things happen also matter too, because here's the reality of the matter. It's like, well, they've already been indoctrinated by ice cube and easy and dray and 40 and short, and none of them talk like that. Nas is a composition of the guys that talk before him. You can hear the chuck d, you can hear the cool g rap, you can hear the rock him, and because you can hear those pieces, mixed with his own experiences, it makes people hold on to it differently. When you're listening to kendrick on good kid mad city, there ain't no tupac or no ice cube on there no, not at all.
Speaker 1:Not at all but.
Speaker 2:But here's the, here's the like I said, it's the weird dichotomy. And we all three in here are fathers, you know what I'm saying, proud fathers at that, and not to get too deep, but I look at Illmatic. For him is like, you know, having your first father and your first child, right, yeah, as a man, I think, for me anyway, having my son was like, well, you know, his mother had him, but you know, having a son was my greatest achievement, right, you know what I'm saying. So, as a father, I'm sticking my chest out, like you know, this is the thing I'm most proud of.
Speaker 2:But in some cases, you know, some people, some parents, have children, that's, you know, children that are problem childs. You know, give them a lot of issues and a lot of hardships going through life, but you love them unconditionally because that's your child when, on one hand, that might be your greatest crowning achievement as a parent birthing your first child but on the same time, that child did nothing but gave you strife, their whole existence. I feel like that's what Illmatic, in a lot of ways, is. For Nas, this is greatest achievement, and it's that dark cloud that he talks about over his head because we put that on, you know. So it's a tough place to be in.
Speaker 3:Well, he's in a hard place because here's the reality of the matter. It Well, he's in a hard place because here's the reality of the matter. It was written in four weeks. In four weeks because it spent four weeks at number one on the rap charts Literally tripled the sales that Illmatic had in four weeks. When that happened I knew even back then, when I was 15, going on 16, I was like, oh, there's not a chance in hell, we're getting Illmatic again.
Speaker 1:He's out of here, that's gone, that's over.
Speaker 3:The idea of getting Illmatic again ended when it was written, spent four weeks at number one in the summer of 96.
Speaker 2:No, it ended at the 95 Source Awards. That's where it ended at the 95 Source Awards.
Speaker 3:See, I don't think it's dead yet, vin, because we still have Taken in Blood and Silent Murder. And I Gave you Power and Live, nigga Rap and the Setup, but oh, when he made If I Rule the World and that shit pop, he's out of here.
Speaker 1:Two fingers.
Speaker 2:To even ask that of him was asking a lot. You know what I mean. He can tap into that when he wants to. I mean, I think will y'all agree that Magic kind of proved that a little bit. You know the aesthetic of Illmatic, so to speak.
Speaker 3:But Magic to me proved that the high-level lyricism that he could provide still existed within him, because he had not rapped at that level lyrically, in my opinion, since still matic and so he was literally almost. He was almost two decades removed from performing like that lyrically, and when you spend that long between that gap, it's gonna be easy for your fan base to say it's like, oh well, he don't got that in the bag anymore.
Speaker 3:And then when magic comes out, you realize this has been a conscious effort by this dude to separate himself from that word I.
Speaker 1:I sat with that for a long time, like, and I was, I was 16, 17. I sat with that for a minute because it was written with such for me, it was written so potent that it elevated everything you think about this, and this is no disrespect to the legend Ra, to the legend Coogee Rap, corona Finest. Nas is kind of in that vein, right, and he should have been more on the side of the Ra and the Coogee Rap. I want to say this the wrong way, man, but that aesthetic that Nas came with Illmatic was more underground based. Nas would never design or set up to be a global superstar, right, he didn't have that personality or that charisma that a Snoop had. Right to be global he, or that that puffy in the background to thrust big paws into that global status, if you will of hip-hop he's.
Speaker 3:He's more of a langston hughes type of character yes yes yes langston hughes was a. Langston hughes was around harlem around all the big stars and he was a star too, but he was the quiet star around all those Harlem Renaissance guys, Exactly.
Speaker 1:So he's really an anomaly because it was written the way it's sold. Even you go back to IM.
Speaker 2:what IM did, well Did almost gold in the first week.
Speaker 3:In the first week 473,000 copies.
Speaker 2:But he's very self-aware, though. He said I'm overground, and underground that's never been seen.
Speaker 3:So here's my analogy, for that Nas is actually where the baller and the backpacker meet, and that's where it lies. Where the baller and the backpacker meet is Nas. Yeah, because he likes to be high and all that, but he's the street kid Like the guys that love Cool the baller and the backpacker.
Speaker 2:Meet is Nas.
Speaker 3:Yeah, because he likes to be all that. You know, like the guys that love Cool G Rap, love Nas. But the guys that love Kane, love Nas, the guys that love Big and like all the, he's the fabric of all those things. It's like oh no, you a Chuck D, you a Chuck D Rock M dropping knowledge. Type of nigga Nas. Oh, you a fly nigga or a street nigga, like a cane or a kudru Nas. He connects those dots. Illmatic is the connection of all of that. Right, that's.
Speaker 1:Nas. He's a crossroads to some of our most defined scholars of hip-hop. He's where they all meet in a happy place. Absolutely, he's a connected tissue to all of that, right, and that's what makes it more difficult for him, because the expectations are different for him than it are for his peers.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, you know he also has the. You know it's kind of funny. Even some of where he's from is some of the drawback. He does come from the largest housing project in this nation right, absolutely.
Speaker 2:But to your point about illmatic not being a um commercial. You know, smash michael jackson spent a lot of his career trying to recreate thriller. You know I'm saying he had great hours, but that's out of his own mouth. He was like we gotta outdo. We got to outdo this and what I really love and respect about Nas he's comfortable enough in his own skin to say like I can do something different. I'm not going to give you the same album twice. I don't have to outdo Illmatic as far as that's concerned.
Speaker 3:OK, but he's not in the same position as Mike, because Mike has off the wall before Thriller and most people from the generation previous to us will tell you that off the wall is better than Thriller. And so Mike has a legion of fans that are literally like. The black crowd is like I don't give a fuck about no Thriller over off the wall, nigga. So what?
Speaker 1:Facts.
Speaker 3:Nas don't have. That has illmatic. His thriller is illmatic. Yeah, michael jackson got off the wall and the only reason thriller exists is because they didn't give mike album of the year for off the wall, and he literally said it himself. It literally is written down on paper that he said. Since they pretty much shaded me out of an award that I deserve, I'm going to make myself even bigger and even better next time around. That's what thriller is Self-manifestation, for real Self-manifestation. I'm going to be MJ. I'm going to be the biggest thing that ever existed in music. Now, since you don't like me doing this black disco shit in code that's what he's saying Since you don't like me doing this black disco shit, I'm going to show you that I can level up better than all them white people can. Who you gave the award to instead of me? Mike's still a nigga. He's from Gary Indiana.
Speaker 1:That's what he did. Mike is a gangster. Mike was a gangster.
Speaker 3:Mike from Gary Indiana. You ever been to Gary before?
Speaker 1:Yes, don't go, they get busy out there. Yeah, don't go don't go to Gary.
Speaker 3:Gary niggas different yes, sir. So fellas, y'all wanna rap this thing expectations for the single tonight Define my Name, which is obviously gonna have a mix and a scratch from Nas' Like which is why it's the number two song on our list. Okay, I already gave it to you. Ag. I already gave it to y'all. What do you want? You want blood. Hold on, hold on, hold on. Do you want to take it in blood? Ag. I like what you did there, Coop. I like what you did there.
Speaker 2:I'm trying to go into the song cold man because you know, going in there with crazy expectations can ruin the experience and, like I said before, I'm glad it's not an album, it's a single that maybe it'll give us something to look forward to. But I'm just trying to go into a cold and hopefully be pleasantly surprised for it let me ask you all something.
Speaker 3:Seeing how we just did the nas primo collab thing, where on this list does this song in this potential album need to rank for it not to receive vitriol Like? Does it need to be somewhere between a represent in New York state of mind level at number five and six? Because I think the one through four is not a reasonable ask. It is not reasonable to ask him to do New York state of mind them, excuse me, it's not reasonable to ask them to do New York state of mind memory lane lane. Nas is like, and I gave you power. I believe that ship has sailed. So do you think the represent New York state of mind to territory is a reasonable ask from both of these legendary producer and MC? I think?
Speaker 2:I mean it's going to get hate, regardless from some pundits, to be honest, of hate regardless from some pundits, to be honest. But if you, you know, if they do come out with a project, if you got maybe five tracks, four to five tracks that could knock the rest out of the bottom half of the top 10, I think that's, like you know, all that we could ask for.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think that's fair okay, so so I'm just gonna tell y'all the truth. I didn't want this album to happen, but not because I don't want to hear it and not because I'm not going to enjoy it. I don't want to hear this shit.
Speaker 2:if it's not, you know what I'm saying Sean, I'll tell you this because for me I'm like yo just do it just so you can shut everybody the hell up, because everybody keeps talking about it. Just put it out so it's not hanging over your head. You know what I'm saying? Hopefully it's dope, but at the same time I'm just like yo y'all the beat narrative was a thing until Hip Boy came along and did six projects and then Nose Pundit shut up. Then everybody was like you know Hip Boy albums was dope, but it wasn't Premiere, though he should have did a whole album with Premiere. So for me I'm glad he's going to do it just so he can shut these people up one way or another.
Speaker 3:This is what I kept saying about how special it was that Hit did. You know, Hit did more tracks for Nas on King's Disease 1 than him and Primo have done this entire span of his career.
Speaker 2:And all Hit did was continue to level up and step his fucking game up. Yep, it's just that the songs with primo were such high highs that people can't let go of those. You know nobody.
Speaker 3:But that's what I'm saying. It's not reasonable to ask a man in like year number 25 in the game to make some of the best rap songs of all time, which is what the top half of these primo and naz songs are. These are some of the best rap songs that have ever been made. That is not a reasonable asking. Year 25, that is. You know what that is. That's asking lebron five years from now to go win the ring. Not now at 39, but five years from now. Lebron still need to be playing and go win a ring.
Speaker 2:It's like nigga, what are you smoking? But to your point coop, I think a lot of reservation and I say this respectfully I think nas improved over the last six albums what kind of bag he's in. I think a lot of the reservation was on the side of like, what kind of production bag would premiere be in. So I think that was most of the reservation. Not so much what nas would do is what premiere would do.
Speaker 3:But you know I don't care where you are, what you think about either of them. Both are top five all-time in their profession. That's not even.
Speaker 2:Premier don't have number two producer all-time. I got him at three.
Speaker 3:I got him at three.
Speaker 2:That's fair.
Speaker 3:I got RZA ahead.
Speaker 2:I got RZA at one. Rza's my number one. We got to do a RZA show.
Speaker 3:Dre is my number one I got Dre RZA, then Freeman, I mean, I think everybody knows.
Speaker 2:We can't have RZA on the show. You and RZA talking at the same time will get mad confusing. We can't even do that, bro, all I want to hear is bong, bong b, bum, bum, bum, bum.
Speaker 1:Yo, fellas, good show tonight. We're going to take the after party over to Stationhead and play Illmatic for the fans over there on Stationhead up until we get the single. Yo y'all cook tonight, fellas. We appreciate y'all. Some quick announcements. Lowell will be back on the show next week.
Speaker 1:We couldn't hit low across the head tonight with the Nas talk, so he had to take a break off of this one. He would have got bodied tonight. Station here tonight at 11.15. We're going to play the Nas-Illmatic joint all the way up until the single come out. We also have I want to make this announcement we have the managing editor from Hip Hop DX who will be sitting down with us to have an intense interview. Imagine Coop talking to the managing editor from Hip Hop DX. Coop didn't know this was going to come. I was holding this onto the side. So, coop, my gift to you is we got the managing editor from Hip Hop DX coming on the show and we're going to have an intense conversation, coop, hey, coop, I'm just saying this is for you, my brother, welcome to Hip Hop Talks.
Speaker 3:No no, no, it's better that you tell me that's at the end, absolutely. Hey, and don't forget. This episode will be out on all of our streaming platforms within the hour.
Speaker 1:No doubt Absolutely. Apple, Spotify, iHeart, Amazon. Thank you all for the love.
Speaker 2:Like and subscribe.
Speaker 3:Real quick. Are y'all conspiring against me? First y'all bring your own Jay-Z's biggest fan, lo, and now y'all got the.
Speaker 2:There's a conspiracy going on against Coop. First of all, don't do Lupe on here soon too, Coop.
Speaker 3:First of all, don't do that.
Speaker 1:Don't do that. You ain't seen nothing. Hey, this is the warm-up. This is the warm-up.
Speaker 3:I don't want to talk to him.
Speaker 2:Well, you got to Kupak. Get ready to come out at the end of the show Kupavelli.
Speaker 3:It's time to move the station head.
Speaker 1:Let's do it, Peace y'all Yo good fucking show.