So, Fellas, fellas what it do how y'all doing out there AG.
Speaker 4:How are you, sir? Is that a juicy juice?
Speaker 5:Is that how we're starting off the show. Yo, pardon me. After this I got to pack my kids' lunches for school tomorrow. Pardon me.
Speaker 2:You got the juicy juice. Yo Cam got everybody bugging out here Yo it's better than juicy juice. Yo, it's better drinking that juicy juice than getting a horse pop or taking your kids to school. That's a bad combination. It's life. It's life, it's life. You know what I mean Such is life, such is life.
Speaker 5:Freaky All of them.
Speaker 2:Nah, let me quit Yo they're going to learn Messing with Cam. This is what happens, man. I support it. I support it all day long. I love it, I love it, support it all day long. I love it, I love it. Are you finished?
Speaker 5:I'm going to finish this juice box and these fruit snacks, though Don't get it twisted Yo.
Speaker 4:Are you taking from the kids in the house? You been stealing from the kids in the house, oh, all the time, all the time.
Speaker 5:Yo yo dad, we can't figure out where this is at. Yo, I don't even know what happened to it. You know what I mean? Oh, you lie about it. If I pay for it. If I pay for it, then I can lie about it. You know that is crazy.
Speaker 2:That's crazy.
Speaker 4:The juices is crazy. Juices a little wild, you'll pick you a little out of line.
Speaker 5:I'm always out of line.
Speaker 2:Always.
Speaker 4:I don't know which one of you is going to be week to week. I'm starting to feel like the stable one.
Speaker 2:That might be true. Yeah, that's about it. I'm in a hotel right now. I've got to tone it down. I'll let AG have all this this week.
Speaker 4:You might as well, be a rapper. Sean, you live on the road.
Speaker 3:My G it's the fifth week in a row.
Speaker 4:You might as well get on the tour bus and get with some of those guys and have them pay you.
Speaker 2:Facts, facts. Hip-hop talks on World Tour. It's like five weeks in a row right now, Tired, but it's all good though I'm here for the culture, it's all good. Man of the people, not above the equal. So, Coop, how you feeling out there? Man, Busy week for you too.
Speaker 4:Always busy. You want to know what it is. I'm addicted to the grind man. I love the work. I love the people. I love the people. I got a lot of love for people in general you know what I'm saying Especially my people. I feel like we got a lot of things inside of us that we still haven't dealt with, but we can get to that some other time. You know what I'm saying, because right now I'd kind of like to get to the corner. Let's pull up on the corner.
Speaker 2:Let like to get to the corner. Let's pull up on the corner. Let's go to the corner baby.
Speaker 4:First of all, I'd like to start off this corner.
Speaker 4:I'd like to start off this corner by reading out the definition of plagiarism. Excuse me, the practice of taking someone else's work or ideas and passing them off as one's own. Now, I've said this before. First of all, I want to say like I've been a writer my whole life, I got my first piece of work published when I was 16 years old. I had two things published when I was 16. I entered a couple of like nationwide, like you knowests, and I ended up in a couple of books Okay, so really a writer by trade. It was my writing that led me into the pod space where I've been the last four years, where people have actually gotten familiar with me based on something that I wrote.
Speaker 4:When you're a writer, you're funny about your shit the same way, like a rapper or a musician, somebody involved in the arts is. We're all artists and writing is my craft in the arts that I've really honed in on and always like kind of been there. It is a violation to take somebody else's ideas and flip them like their own, and I've said this in like a way, more like hateful and egregious way in the past, and I can even understand why. Some of these older dudes who we've looked up to have had their day and they may see somebody in the smaller space like myself and feel the need to pull ideas from it, and they can get away with that. But I'll be goddamn if I'm going to let somebody who ain't even on that level continue to steal my shit and other people's shit. You know who you are, cause I know you're going to be watching and so respectfully understand what plagiarism is. Stop taking my ideas and flipping them and passing them off as your own, like. If your pen ain't nice enough to write it, if your mind ain't right enough to remember it, don't take my creations Cause you ain't right enough to remember it. Don't take my creations because you don't have any within your will.
Speaker 4:You feel what I'm saying, because it makes it hard for me to want to wish you well. I got mental health issues. I don't know what the fuck I would do to you if I seen you. I'm not joking Because I feel some type of way, because it keeps on happening and I've been cool about it. But this is just me asking, nicely and kindly, stop stealing my shit and stop stealing other people's shit. I don't care how big or small you are at this space. If you can't stand on your own two. It's just like anything else. Then don't stand at all. Walk the fuck out of here and find something else to do. You usually have three careers in your lifetime. Get the fuck on, go do something else. That's all I got.
Speaker 3:AG, how you doing, I'm good.
Speaker 5:I'm good. I mean, I feel like I should have been able to. Go ahead. I'm sorry. You remember the intro to Wu-Tang Forever where RZA was having the same kind of diatribe. I feel like we should be playing that instrumental in the background right now. What the?
Speaker 4:fuck is going on. It's almost like what did I do to deserve this? I don't even have a problem with you and you doing this. It'd be different if other people in this space who, quite frankly, you know, I'm not too fond of anymore and they're not too fond of me It'd be different if they was doing it. I expect that from them. But just to be blindsided like this. I'm dealing with enough shit as it is. I'm dealing with enough shit as it is. I'm taking my ideas. This is wild. We're grown-ass men.
Speaker 4:I take the time every week, no matter how busy I am, to come up with a page of notes, maybe two, because I'm dedicated. I don't even read half the shit that's on here. I just like the process because it makes me research, it makes me dig, it makes my mind get busy. When my mind get busy, I come up with thoughts and those thoughts get activated and they become pieces of this show, and I'm pretty sure y'all's processes works in some sort of shape or fashion in a similar way, depending on whatever your release point is. My release point is writing, and so I take the things that I write that usually activate. Most of the things that I create come from me writing it down just me physically writing it down, Right right.
Speaker 4:Like, don't take that from me, right? And then if I were to show my ass, then it becomes well, here, coop, go again. Really, is it me Right, right, I'm the problem because I might want to smack the shit out of somebody, because they keep taking what's mine.
Speaker 2:I mean, look, man, what they say. That's the best form of flattery, right when someone takes your stuff.
Speaker 4:I'm beyond being flattered because it's like it's flattery when somebody acknowledges you Like I acknowledge the things that I take from and I get it. Being flattered because it's like it's flattering when somebody acknowledges you like like I acknowledge the things that, like, I take from and I get it. It's just like this, like you know, let's take it to some rap shit and then we can slide out of here. The producers of the east coast in the early 90s sean, as you know well, they all went to the same record stores. So q-tip, pete Rock, large Pro, I think, paul C I'm missing some other people, I feel like that were kind of like in that circle at the time.
Speaker 4:But they heard each other's stuff and you could hear like some of their stuff in each other. They didn't just take each other's shit, they still did it their way Right, like. If you have a comment or idea, let it be your way on your day, not literally the night after. I just did it Right. When I do it at night and then you do it in the morning, it lets me know you're getting up in the morning to take my shit, because we don't know each other like that yeah, and shout out to Andrew, me and Andrew had a, you know, nice back and forth conversation the other day about how, you know that's really frowned upon in our culture.
Speaker 5:You know what I mean and it's like you know, and I was just basically trying to break down, you know, to understand why things are the way they are, and we had a really good conversation about it. So, you know, shout out to Andrew and you know, just to kind of lay that out, because that's kind of like an unwritten rule since the beginning of time in hip-hop really well, here's the thing about it.
Speaker 4:It exists in the writing world as well. That's why I'm explaining my creative process, some like a piece of it, so that you understand that, like by definition, what you're doing is plagiarizing me. So technically, if I wanted to, I could go to court and pull your shit up and be like I really own that technically, because he plagiarized what I've been doing and I can show times and dates, like I showed you all this morning, with a couple of nice, very friendly messages attached to them.
Speaker 2:So let me ask you this Coop Do you think that there's? At this point, would you sit down with someone who's biting your stuff constantly or repeatedly attaching themselves to what you're putting out there? Is that worth the conversation or is that beyond conversation at this point? Conversation or is that beyond conversation at this point, maybe that person is sparring with you behind the scenes. Maybe they see you on a show and they're home sparring with you on things that you're saying. That's their outlet to be able to share how you feel about the things that you're sharing as well.
Speaker 4:I don't know how else to say this, except for I really don't give a fuck about all that. I don't, I don't care. But if he were to reach out and want to have a conversation, yeah. But life has kind of taught me that when you're in his position and when you're in my position, what he about to say, I'm going to apologize. He going to say it ain't going to happen again, because there's a certain mind and an ego that exists with somebody who does stuff like this. You feel me?
Speaker 3:No doubt.
Speaker 4:And so their ego probably won't allow them to extend their hand and have a conversation.
Speaker 2:No doubt, no doubt.
Speaker 5:We got to queue up. No idea is original, though. It's never what you do, but how it's done. So you know, just keep doing your own thing with Flair, my G. You know what I'm saying. Don't worry about people biting and stuff.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:No, no, no. I mean I'm never going to stop. But to stop, but sometimes you just got to let people know you got to let them know that you see it.
Speaker 5:You got to let them know that you see it.
Speaker 4:That's all I'm saying. Don't act like you're not stealing my shit. You know who you are. I get it.
Speaker 2:We are in an age of social media, where everyone is looking for content, everyone feeds off of certain content because they can't be creative on their own. So again, you being a trailblazer I'm not, I'm trying to be light of it, you know.
Speaker 4:I mean, I'm telling me like no, no, I understand, but, but, but it's like when you say that that's what bothers me, because, like I do it, because I really have a passion for it, and by passion I put in the work and therefore, like I'm very good at it and care about it because of those things. So no, doubt no doubt yeah, sean's a devil's advocate kind of guy, though if you ain't caught on and I, and I, and I, and I and I appreciate the cross-examination and rebuttal by the defense.
Speaker 2:Trust me, I want to get active all the time, but I'm trying to learn a different way to handle it.
Speaker 4:Verdict is I got mental health issues. You should really stop doing that to me.
Speaker 2:I'm trying to find a different way to handle me being active.
Speaker 4:I might feel better if I had one of those. Actually, that's kind of like comfort food, that's comfort juice, you know, take you back to your weekdays. You know what I'm saying. I ain't ashamed, I ain't ashamed, I ain't ashamed, I ain't ashamed, I ain't ashamed, I ain't ashamed, I ain't ashamed, I ain't ashamed, I ain't ashamed the big can of the juicy juice.
Speaker 3:You know what I'm saying? Grab the can opener boop, boop. Yeah, those hit different.
Speaker 5:You can't even get those.
Speaker 2:They do hit different though.
Speaker 5:Everybody in my part of the hood getting the juicy juice, all right, that's like the Gatorade in the glass bottles you can't get them, Joyce, no more.
Speaker 4:No, I haven't seen one of those in over 15 years probably, at least, Maybe longer.
Speaker 2:Gatorade tasted so much better in those glass bottles for some crazy reason. It really was a difference. It was a difference.
Speaker 4:Now we really sound like we're about to tell somebody to get off their lawn. What's the next segment?
Speaker 2:Let's go to new music. Man, you guys heard that new single by Common and Pete Rock. That album is actually ramping up to come out. So how are we feeling about this? Are you excited about Common? First of all, are we excited about Common bringing another album out? And number two, are we excited about Common and Pete Rock getting the studio together? Let's start with you, coop. What are you thinking about this one man?
Speaker 4:This is your lane right here. After I got done listening to this record, I said to myself Nas and Pring better come with it. That's exactly what I thought. See, this is what I mean. This is my creative thoughts. This is my mind working. I'm thinking to myself oh no, them two, you two, top of your profession, correct the results, need to reflect. The results reflect on this record. And I think maybe probably more time and intention was put to this record, because I'm not even sure if the Nas and Pring record we got is going to make the album, like AG astutely pointed out. But I was impressed. This is an Cause.
Speaker 2:I'm not even sure if the Nas and Pring record we got is going to make the album like.
Speaker 4:AG astutely pointed out. Yep, but I was impressed this isn't this isn't what I would like to call like Common's, kind of like Miami heat shack he's not LA Laker shack anymore Like that's him on B, that's him on like water for chocolate, that's him on finding forever. But no, he sounds like Miami Heat Shaq. You know what I'm saying. It's like oh no, no, no, that guy's still good for 22 and 10. It can still go get you like 30, 15 in a playoff game when it really matters. So he sounds like a top 15 emcee of all time on this record because he is His catalog.
Speaker 4:His rhymes and his songs reflect that type of stature. And the same thing could save for pete rock, except for probably with pete's case. It would probably be in top 10 in his craft and, in some people's uh, opinion, top five. So they actually, even with those lofty expectations that come with it, they still actually really, really deliver. This is a dope-ass record. The beat sounds like Pete, but it kind of sounds like Preem a little bit to me. But it sounds updated. It sounds like he's doing Preem better than Preem and updating it yeah.
Speaker 2:I thought about that.
Speaker 4:I thought about that, didn't it seem a little Preemish to you. Yeah, it did. You know what that's? The guy I forgot to mention when I was talking about all the other guys was Preem, cause he's all. He's kinda separated himself. You know what I mean, but he was there. Gangstar Tribe, you know what I'm saying, like all those guys. Yeah, so those are my thoughts. Ag, what do you think?
Speaker 2:for me. I like the juxtaposition of so those are my thoughts, ag.
Speaker 5:What do you think? For me, I like the juxtaposition of, you know, the Nas and Preem album, you know, up against the Pete Rock and the Common album, because, let's face it, that's what it's, you know, going to be. People are going to compare these two bodies of work. I'm just happy, as somebody who's 40 plus, to look at these legends and you know icons in the game who are all 50 plus still put out high quality material. You know what I mean. So I think I think both projects are going to be dope um, this pete rockin um common single it was fire. I mean, I loved it, you know when I first heard it. And to point, common is rhyming on a high level on there, not like Common of old, but he's still in shape and, like I always say, it's all about getting your reps in. So if we're comparing the projects they're not here yet I think Common's level of emceeing kind of has to catch up with Pete's production a little bit, because Pete's been active. You know, for a elder statesman in the production world he's been pretty active. So as long as commons rhymes and you know flows and all that matches Pete's production, then the the album will be fire Mm.
Speaker 5:Hmm, I have the inverse thoughts on the Nas and Prem record. Nas has been super active, getting his reps in. You know he's doing flows, he's catching pockets like he hasn't before and he sounds real comfortable on a lot of stuff. So you know, to Coop's point and use his phrase, he got to update the formula a little bit to make his production catch up to where Nas is at now. So I think you know it's just an interesting kind of dichotomy and situation.
Speaker 5:But you know, I love to see it, man, these are all like. But yo, I love to see it, man, these are all like. I mean, you know, legendary MCs, legendary producers coming together to do their individual projects. Um, my only hope and caveat that I will say I hope that you know. I know Pete had an issue with Nas or whatever, but you know, um, hopefully he's put that to the side. You know, since some things I'm seeing on socials now it looks to be showing Nas a little bit of love. But if that is put to the side and they're good now, I would love to see a Nas feature on the Common Album over a P-Rock production. I think that would be dope. I'll just put that out in the atmosphere and see what comes back with it. What you got, sean.
Speaker 2:I agree, man. I agree with both of you guys. I'm excited for this. You know this is this is our lane of hip hop, right. And when I first heard about the project and then I heard the song, I said I wonder if this has anything to do with the Nas effect. You know Nas mentioned that he wanted his peers to get back into the lab. You know Nas mentioned that he wanted his peers to get back into the lab. He wanted those from his elk, from his generation of hip hop, to get back in the lab and just start having fun again with rapping. And now you're starting to see certain things kind of blossom and bloom from that. I agree with both of you guys. I think that this should be a very stellar project. We know what we're going to get from Common.
Speaker 2:I like the way Coop analogized the fact that you're talking about Miami Shaq. Miami Shaq wasn't as dominant, but his presence was still there. You know, any given night he can give you 30, 30, 35 in one night, but other nights he's going to give you consistent 22 and 10, 22 and 12, and he's still going to dominate the game in a different fashion. Based on the way I process comments delivery. I'm thinking that I feel that we're getting a different side of comment because me personally, I thought that comments highest clip was on B because he had something to prove.
Speaker 2:You know, at that time he just came off of you can probably say not the best you know run before B, where I think he was doubting if he just came off of. You can probably say not the best you know run before beat, where I think he was doubting if he had the ability to even put together a stellar project from front to back. And he paired up with Kanye. At the time Kanye was like the hottest producer in the game and Kanye gave him probably some of the best production that you can give someone like Common to surf on. And Common wrote every single rhythm of that album. And B, in my opinion, is maybe top 25, maybe top 15, twist my arm albums of all time. I agree, no bar was wasted and that's what we saw Common. And then we saw a little slight dip right after that. He kind of veered off a little bit.
Speaker 4:Here's the thing Usually, when you make a top 25 rap album, all the time it's hard for there not to be a drop-off.
Speaker 2:It's very hard, very hard, and I think he kind of to your point. I wonder if he would have kept that same formula with Kanye, would he have been able to produce something similar to B or something not too far distant from B? But now you're going to get Pete Rock, who is really a mastermind on a production, and you're pairing him up with Common. What, 20 plus years later?
Speaker 4:Well, you know, okay, so quick nuance of that the weakest part of Common's game has always actually been his hook game. And on B, what you find is that, well, kanye does a few hooks, john Legend does a hook, good point, good point. John Legend does a hook, good point, good point. Bilal does a hook.
Speaker 2:Good point.
Speaker 5:He did better on Finding Forever with that.
Speaker 4:And there are songs because of how Kanye likes to sample where the sample is the hook, and so what he did and this is what what an executive producer does, and this is when I thought he really did become one of the greatest producers of all time well, you're supposed to also fill the holes of what you know he doesn't do well, and if you listen to his best stuff, sometimes where it loses steam is on his hooks. He did do better on finding forever, as ag pointed out, but that was after b. B is probably what enabled him to do that. He might have gotten to sit on some hooks for one and therefore compress it into the next album because yade was making sure so many of the hooks were taken care of right, and he also could have got better because of the experience and the high of b.
Speaker 4:Like you know, common is the type of person that I feel like every time he got a little bit more successful, he actually got a little bit better as a rapper for a stretch, absolutely, absolutely. You know, like every time he got a little bit more successful, he actually got a little bit better as a rapper for a stretch, absolutely, absolutely. You know, like every time he got a little bit more. He actually got a little bit better, which means he cared. You know like he's a better rapper on One Day it All Makes Sense than he is on Resurrection. But he's a better rapper on Resurrection than he is on Can I Borrow a Dollar? But he's definitely a better rapper by the time you find him on Like Water for Chocolate.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 5:Top tier at that point.
Speaker 2:Top tier. At that point I wonder if he gets into that, because Common has that voice that doesn't go up and down much, he doesn't have fluctuation In B. He sounded hungry, he sounded excited and he sounded very enthusiastic about what he was doing. On beat you hear a different swagger Water for Chocolate. You really heard a different level of comment. You heard the lyricists comment On beat. You heard someone who was confident, who was saying I'm him, I'm that guy, I can spark the best of them. He had a different bravado on me Again. I don't know if that was because Kanye brought that out of him. You mentioned it like having John Legend out there to kind of take that burden away from a cook, or having Kanye orchestrating things. I wonder if Pete Rock would be able to help orchestrate some of those things and bring back that zeal that Common would typically have in an album like this to prove himself again.
Speaker 4:Well, here's the thing. Oh sorry, no, you haven't got a chance to get in yet. Go ahead.
Speaker 5:Oh no, I was just going to say a lot of things happen kind of by osmosis a lot of times. So you know before that Common did a lot of work with no ID, which is, you know, one of the greatest producers ever. But quiet demeanor, you know how you carry yourself. If you're around Kanye for a lot of time, you know some of that bravado is going to rub off on you a little bit. Just like we said with the Nas and Hip Boy run, having Hip Boy around for that young boy energy probably you know, brought out the best in Nas. So I think a lot of that that came out on B was from having Kanye around.
Speaker 5:But real quick, coop, before you give your take. I don't know if y'all seen Carmelo's podcast 7 pm in Brooklyn, but Common had made a statement saying that he had passed on the beat for Heard Him Say on late registration and that just blew my mind because B is perfect as is and now I can't get over that and I'm hearing Common over that beat. Blew my mind because b is perfect as is and now I can't get over that and I'm hearing common over that beat in my head and I'm like yo imagine if that was tacked on to b2 I'm I'm trying to tell you that bumps it up, like you know, another five ranks in greatest albums all the time so I feel like B is the formula that works.
Speaker 4:So let's look at it. Common is in a common in a lot of way Not in a lot of ways. Common is a hip hop guy. He's a B boy and he's a rapper. He's really has been immersed in this culture for a long time. Until recently he's delved into other arenas. I'm not a big fan of him delving into those places, but that's what his aspirations are More power to him. But as far as his rap shit is concerned, he's a rapper's rapper. You know like. He is somebody that's been on Hot 9-7 and traded bars freestyle wise with KRS-One and being more than capable of doing that. So he's high level. But look at B. Well, the intro that's him letting him do his rapper rapper shit. But then you go into the corner. Last Poets and Kanye got the hook. Go, kanye's got the hook. Next record is Faithful. I think that's a sample. Next song is Testify. That's a sample on the hook. Next song is Shyify. That's a sample on the hook. Next song is Shy City isn't it.
Speaker 5:I believe, so yes.
Speaker 4:Yeah. Another sample, with Kanye chanting in the background the food, kanye on the hook. Think about it. We're at track nine. Common hasn't spit a hook yet. Yeah.
Speaker 5:But it's like when you play hoop right.
Speaker 5:Message when you play hoop and you got an offensive player that sucks on the defensive end, you want to do whatever you can to hide those deficiencies on the defensive end. You know what I mean. So I feel like you know. I really didn't even do the knowledge on that till you just said it because him and Kanye hid that so well throughout the album. But you're right, you know they picked that out and said hooks might not be your strong suit but we can mask that well and still make a classic album.
Speaker 4:So here's the thing If you know that Stockton and Malone are about to run the pick and roll, but you can't stop it, why would you stop running that play? They literally went to the Hall of Fame running one fucking play Every time. They went up the court for 10 straight years Pick and roll. Now you may not have Karl Malone or Kanye, but you can go. Find you a Kevin Garnett, a Barkley, a Dirk. They'll run the pick and roll with your ass and Amari Stoudemire when he's healthy. You get what I'm saying.
Speaker 5:But nigga, if you know the pick and roll works, we'll run the pick and roll bread and butter and if this album ends up being dope we have in another conversation because common got a top 10 discography of all time. It's borderline top five to me. If this album is dope, that enters the chat. If this album is dope, it's up there.
Speaker 4:Just off the top of my head. Nas Jay, scarface, ghostface, krs-one come to mind immediately About full catalog. But after those guys.
Speaker 2:Did you put 15 in there Not?
Speaker 4:enough, not over Common. Common's got too many great albums. Get Rich or Die Trying is a top 10-ish rap album to me. If it's not 10, it's probably one or two right outside of 10., and that would make it slightly better than B. It's not 10. It's probably one or two right outside of 10. And maybe and that would make it slightly better than B because I think it is slightly better than B Overall B's probably better as a player, beginning to end, but the records on Get Rich or Die Trying are just too much yeah.
Speaker 5:Kanye and Kendrick got great discographies, but they don't have the breadth that everybody else has. And then you got games in that conversation.
Speaker 4:Common's catalog is better than games to me. Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 5:It's top ten, but we might be having a top five conversation, depending on how great this album is.
Speaker 4:Don't you think B's better than the documentary?
Speaker 2:Yes, Okay, I don't know, think B's better than the documentary. Yes, okay, I don't know, bro, the documentary.
Speaker 5:I love documentaries the classic to me, dr.
Speaker 4:Zavik and.
Speaker 3:B's a better conversation that's not better than B, but B's still winning.
Speaker 5:B is somewhere competing with the Supreme clienteles. The Blueprints like them. Type records.
Speaker 4:Well, common wins over Game to me, because it's like, well, his third, fourth and fifth best albums is stuff like. I mean, I'm pretty certain we're all on the same agreement that B and Water for Chocolate are his two best albums, right? Absolutely, I think. So. One and two, b, B and Like Water for Chocolate.
Speaker 5:are his two best albums right? I think so. One and two B1 and Like Water for Chocolate.
Speaker 4:He's got Finding Forever. He's got One Day It'll All Make Sense. He's got Resurrection. As far as the top five, that's a top five that's pretty fucking hard to beat. You literally have to be Scarface or Nas or Jay or Ghost. I'm not even certain if Ghost's fifth is better than Common's fifth. That's what I'm saying. Ghost may beat him in quality of catalog, especially if you interpret the Wu shit too. If you interpret the Wu shit, it's definitely Ghost. It's a cheat code.
Speaker 2:It's a cheat code. It is what it is it is what it is.
Speaker 4:Look here man, life is not fair. After those four guys that I named after Naj J, scarface and Ghost, who can really say that they have a better catalog than Common Like, really Like. What's your fifth best?
Speaker 5:album look like that spots up for grabs. If he drops a dope album like four, four and a half plus then I think he's I think the problem I sorry ag go ahead no, I'm just saying. I say I think he would enter the top five. I think.
Speaker 4:I think his biggest problem is that he doesn't have any group work to offset some of these guys. The way face got ghetto boys and the way scarface is so revered by new yorkers and by southerners he's done so many features and been on so many songs with so many different dudes you know what I'm saying. And so that's where catalog wise guys like scarface and ghostface, like uh take it, have a have an edge up on common and probably will remain to have an edge up. So it's like I don't know if it's, I don't know if he'll be able to go higher than five if he goes to five is what I'm saying well, even more so than that, the duds that's in his catalog.
Speaker 5:I think people really hold those against them heavy, like the electric circus and the universal mind control them joints.
Speaker 2:So I think Weird yeah you can keep those.
Speaker 5:Yeah, but but you know he has enough great material to offset those in my opinion. But I think people that do count those against them like are really heavy handed with with that. You know, kind of like you are against mr morale coop, but I'll just you know you want to know what hey, you want to know what?
Speaker 4:when I'm out bopping, either hanging or shopping, people see me stop. I'm asking when the album dropping the wait is over. Information like a soldier, like I told you, greater, stronger now that I'm older. I broke a code of silence with overloads of talent. Challenge asking when the album dropping the wait is over. Information like a soldier, like I told you, greater, stronger Now that I'm older. I broke a code of silence with overloads of talent. My only challenge is not to explode in violence. No, stop, ag, I want you to tell me something Now.
Speaker 4:Spit something from Mr Morale off the top of your head, the way I just spit something off the 18th letter from 1997 since that album is so good, and since we got to be honest about what's going on, If I've been told it might be controversial, Since you're the honest police AG if you was able to do that, that album would be like that, and that's why I keep telling people that album's not like that. When an album is like that, or when an album is good, or even when a song is great on an album, you can always be able to go back to it if it's truly great, if you're actually ahead.
Speaker 5:I really don't think it's great, but my whole argument was that we got to have just scales, not unbalanced scales. We got to like weight it the same for everybody. Everybody got duds in the catalog.
Speaker 4:So everybody has duds, but the 18th letter is not a dud because it has memorable songs that people still recite, like I just did, off the top of my head.
Speaker 5:I think most would consider it objectively. I think most people are coming from him because of who he is. But my thing with the Kendrick stuff and we'll get to this later on for sure he made three classic rap albums in a row.
Speaker 4:Like who cares? He already made three classic rap albums in a row. This is what I'm talking about. So it's like how about this? All he is on the 18th letter is like KG in Boston. It's like no, he's not. Like, it's not 26 and 14 and bringing the ball up the court. It's not that anymore. But it's good enough to like win defensive player of the year and win a ring. The only guys that rap better than him that year is Jay.
Speaker 2:That was 97, right.
Speaker 4:Big had life after death. Well, here's the thing. No, no, no In 97, that's when Nas dropped the firm. He sounds better than Nas in 97, lyrically speaking.
Speaker 5:On the firm, yeah On the firm, yeah the firm is 97, so that's what he would have for 97.
Speaker 4:But what?
Speaker 1:Rakim was doing we can get off this but what Rakim was doing.
Speaker 5:I don't think you have to overrate 18th Letter to properly rate Mr Morale and I think it's coming from a lot of his fan base and we're gonna get to this. Some of Kendrick's fan bases is unsufferable and he's a media darling it is what it is and his PR team is top tier right. So I think, with all the love that Kendrick gets and he's a great artist, he's a great emcee I think sometimes you come off heavy-handed to swing the pendulum so far in the other direction, just to provide balance, because I really don't think you hate the album as much as you say you do.
Speaker 4:I do. The album is fucking terrible AG.
Speaker 5:But your own record saying otherwise, though.
Speaker 4:And I'm on record going back and saying that I was totally wrong and that this album sucks. I never went.
Speaker 4:I never like people, people act like people act like the first part of the record counts more than the second part of the record. Does anybody want to talk about the second part of the record that plays when I was like you want to know what. I've tried to let this sit on me. I tried to let this grow on me, but the more I'm thinking about it, the only reason I'm even giving it a three and I'm taking it down from a four is because the writing is brilliant, which I always said, always said the writing was brilliant. It's not a fucking writing competition. The name of the podcast is hip hop talks.
Speaker 5:Well, that's why uh the heart health.
Speaker 4:That I don't want to hear because the song suck. What was?
Speaker 5:it the hard part of five. That's why the hard part of five was at it to have like those type of bars on the album. But just like I said with Common, Common got it done. With Universal Mind Control we got to be consistent with how we hold these duds against our favorites.
Speaker 4:And that's terrible too.
Speaker 5:It is terrible. Universal Mind Control yes, yeah, but you ain't going to go on a 30-minute diatribe about it. That's what I'm saying. We got to be consistent.
Speaker 4:It's better than Mr Morale. At least it has Come Close and a couple of Dilla joints on there. Come Close is better than everything on Mr Morale.
Speaker 5:I would put Electric Circus up. Universal Mind Control. No, Electric Circus is actually.
Speaker 4:Universal Mind Control.
Speaker 5:I think Electric Circus is better than Universal Mind Control Me too.
Speaker 2:Electric Circus was right before R&B right.
Speaker 4:Very crappy albums. They're all crappy albums.
Speaker 5:There's people out there that say Electric Circus is better than Nostradamus. I don't agree. But there's people out there that say that. Say what I've heard. People say Electric Circus is better than Nostradamus. I don't agree but I've heard people say it hey yo, sean, I told you that one more time. Man, I'm going to air you out on this show, bro, I'm not playing anymore bro.
Speaker 2:I'm going to put the shades back on and air you out real quick. I didn't hear that here. I didn't hear that. I just didn't know if it was a city thing.
Speaker 5:I don't know, Don't make me put the shades back on Sean.
Speaker 2:I don't know, don't make me put the shades back on, sean. No more juicy juice. No more juicy juice in the shades. Man, my bad man. Shout out to West Virginia man, charleston Beckley and whatever else they got out there. Shout out to all of y'all All right, let's get into that rap city man. I want both of you guys to talk about this one because I enjoyed reading what you guys were talking about earlier this week. We were just kind of talking about how we were going to navigate this conversation with Rhapsody and I saw where you know, aj, you actually said this was the album of the year so far.
Speaker 5:Yes, yeah, go ahead, sean my part.
Speaker 2:And Coop, you kind of doubled back and said that you felt like she checked all the boxes on this album and I wanted to get you guys to kind of talk through that man, because I didn't listen to the album until I saw you guys make comments about it. I could chat and I went back and listened to it yesterday morning on my flight back and listened to it yesterday morning on my flight and I was I agree with everything you guys are saying in the chat, but I want to hear more. If you can respond on what? Why ag? Why you felt that this was an album of the year already so far this year?
Speaker 5:uh, yeah, it was kind of ironic because me and coop had that whole conversation. The last part he was like what would you think is the album of the year? And I really had to think about it because nothing really stuck out, you know as a uh, as a standout album so far. But after giving this rhapsody album one listen, I was like thoroughly convinced, like this is by far the best, and when I say by far, I really mean by far um the best thing I've heard this year so far.
Speaker 5:Um, you know, just overall overarching, I think it's a really great theme thematic project. You know it's very conceptual. You know what she's doing. It's like autobiographical and she's really diving deep into the fabric of like you know who she is if you really pay attention to the songs and you know we just got off of you know Mr Morale and all that to the songs, and you know we just got off of um, you know mr morale and all that. But, like you know the coop's point though, this is an album that sticks the landing when you're really doing self-reflection and those type of tracks, you know what I mean therapeutic type tracks and um, I just think it's stellar work. Um, some things that really stuck out to me was um, there's no ninth wonder on this album, production wise. So you know, uh, on eve, ninth did at least half or a little bit more than half of the album, and I don't think ninth had one track on this album. So that was something that stuck out. But all the beats are, you know, really good.
Speaker 4:Oh, go ahead I thought he had one. No, I'm about to look up right quick yeah, fact check me on that.
Speaker 5:I didn't see him on the credits any. But fact check me on that. But as far as the themes of the album, first of all, I'm a huge Matrix fan, one of my favorite movies of all time. You come into the album with the intro and the interludes playing off of Neo's conversation with the Oracle. She got Felicia Rashad, you know Mrs Huxtable playing that role, so that was a nice touch. Asteroids we had already heard before. That was a banger with Hit-Boy.
Speaker 5:And you know, when she's doing metaphors like her metaphors, like you know, they punch, they land. Metaphors like her metaphors like you know, they punch, they land. Her metaphors are super dope, um flows crazy. Um dnd, uh with the uh for do not disturb, it's not personal, that's the monica uh flip, you know, on um, just one of those days she killed that song. Um, he shot me. You know the playoff of I shot the sheriff but I didn't the deputy. I'm talking about injustices in the black community. Super dope song Loose rocks hit me, hit me right in the heart. Man Talking about her second mother figure, um with dementia. And then the skit at the end where there's conversating man that you know when a song can get you feeling a certain kind of way. That's a different kind of level.
Speaker 4:Um can get you feeling a certain kind of way, that's a different kind of level.
Speaker 5:Um ag yo both of them grandma, and grandpa got dementia yeah yeah, yeah, she just passed recently, in march and uh, she had dementia and it's appreciated, bro and um, you know that that really hit me. You know I'm saying in the feels on that one raw with little wayne, little way. Lil Wayne, he's the new feature king man. Everything he touch he blazes, you know, arguably almost as dope as J Cole was doing for a while. And I read an article with Rhapsody and she said she wrote a verse over. You know many times trying to compete with that Wayne verse. So that's dope. There's a couple more 3AM with Erica Badu Listen, in hip hop we have a in the hip hop pantheon. We have a lot of records about relationships. Right, that is I'm putting my standpoint. That's one of the dopest records I've ever heard in regards to a relationship with somebody. You know what I mean. Just like describing the nuances and the things that make a relationship beautiful 3AM is the joint with Erykah Badu.
Speaker 4:It's an exceptional record it's one of the best joints on the album.
Speaker 5:Absolutely. It's stellar. Back of my Bag is just a huge banger. And the last joint that I put as a noteworthy joint is Faith. That's another deep joint that'll get you in your feels. Um, I really think you know I'm saying I'm gonna jump out the window and say it's a five mic album. Man, like I don't really see any flaws with this album, but uh, what you got cool I think, much like you, that she just made the album of the year.
Speaker 4:I think this is the second time she has made album of the year, because I believe Rhapsody's Eve was the best rap album that year as well. Yeah, 2019, her last two albums. If Lupe makes these albums, if Kendrick makes these albums, if Nas makes these albums, with these concepts, these ideas, these appropriate reflections on mental health at Mr Morale, because the dialogue and the conversation is not only appropriate, it's balanced, it's thoughtful, it's clear, but, most of all, the songs are really fucking good, because, at the end of the day, the song needs to be good. These songs are good. These are really really good. She hit the nail, she hit the hammer with the nail every time she stepped up the bat on this album real quick, cool.
Speaker 5:Sorry to cut you off, but she to your point that you said about, like if it was nas or whoever that did this album. She said she spits that a couple times on this album, like if I had a you know, you know what then I'd be in goat conversations, it would be goat talk. So she realizes at the level that she's spitting at, she realized it herself.
Speaker 4:But what I was about to tell you the only person and I'm not joking when I say this as far as mic performances this year that I've heard, I would tell you this is the best one. And the only other person and the person that I would actually tell you is the only person that's competing with her lyrically that I've heard this year consistently is I Am God. That's why I'm so big on him.
Speaker 5:That drum was dope. That drum was dope. I'm still big on him. That drum was dope.
Speaker 4:I'm still playing it. I know it's dope. Those are the two best actual bar seminars, from beginning to end, that I've heard all year. No, you're right, his shit ain't dropped yet. His shit dropped on June 14th, by the way, that's going down From what I heard.
Speaker 5:That's in contention but we going with what's out that the public's heard so far.
Speaker 4:Right, we're going with what's heard so far. So what's officially been released so far? Yeah, this is album of the year. I agree.
Speaker 5:What part of Carolina is she from? Coop?
Speaker 4:I forget to be honest with you. I'd have to look it up again. It's been so long I saw it. I'd have to look it up again.
Speaker 2:She's close to the Pineville area, if I'm not mistaken, that's fine. I think that's the Durham, Isn't that the Durham hub? I believe I'm not mistaken. I can't Snow Hill. She's from Snow.
Speaker 5:Hill. I'm not familiar with that area. Snow.
Speaker 2:Hill is like man, it's hard to explain. I'm familiar with that area. I'm familiar with that area. I'm familiar with the entire area actually. But snow hill is like a small small town, a small town in north carolina, like I think. I want to say it's like the northeast portion of north carolina close to the greenville um area of north carolina, very small area but still that's.
Speaker 5:That's enough for you to claim his home team. Cool Coop, I know you got to be proud.
Speaker 4:Well, if she's in the Greenville area, she's about two, three hours, maybe about. She's probably about two and a half three hours from Charlotte. It's out there From Charlotte going like probably about three hours from Charlotte, going northeast of here, northeast of here, Northeast of Charlotte, You'd be headed towards the coast, towards Wilmington if you were headed towards Greenville. Okay, I got you.
Speaker 5:Did you see 9th on there?
Speaker 4:No 9th wasn't on there Now AG.
Speaker 4:I don't know if I can give it a 5. Because I don't know, and can give it a five because I don't know, and all the songs are good. So I don't want to confuse what I'm saying. I don't know what one of these songs is going to stick, just enough to put it over the hump, to be in contention with the classic, because I do have a caveat about a classic. A lot of people have really made albums with good songs from beginning to end that aren't considered classics. I consider Scarface to be a master at that because I think he only has three definite classics. But he doesn't have a bad album either, because he consistently makes good songs.
Speaker 2:Right. Right.
Speaker 4:But even though he consistently makes good songs and most of his albums contain material that you can play from beginning to end, not all of them are classics. If that was the case, every album Scarface made would be a classic.
Speaker 5:Like straight B-pluses or straight A's, but no A-pluses.
Speaker 4:Like. The fix is something different. That's a classic. The diary is something different. That's a classic. It's him being him, but the level and the quality of the songs the Diary has Never Seen a man Die and Going Down and Mind Playing Tricks, 94. You know what I'm saying. It's got stuff on there that people still bump, that's considered to be classics. Never Seen a man Die is one of the best rap songs ever and so this album doesn't have that is what I'm saying. But it's not missing anything other than that. In my opinion, there's no like think about this, the infamous has give up the goods and it has survival of the fittest and it has shook ones part two and it has eye for an eye and it has temperatures rising. Like it's a lot.
Speaker 4:When you say something is perfect, and I realize it in order for something to really get a five, it's like they need to be songs on there that like, like that really really hold up. Like let's go to kd2. It's like I gave kd2 a five because I'm like no, like store running, nobody's about to hold up. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, it's like the songs are good from beginning to end, but it's got just enough joints on there where I'm like, no, some of these songs gonna hold well, can I?
Speaker 5:ask you a question. Um, I'll do you one. I'll do you one. Better, like you talk about lupe or kendrick putting out this album. If lauren puts out this album, is it a runaway five?
Speaker 4:This is actually my thought about that. Like, first of all, lauren's talent is so supreme that it allows her to do things that not even some of the greatest of men who we have ever heard rap can do on the mic. That's true, she's like that. She's like that. You know what I'm saying? Like shit, it ain't that she's the best female, it's that she's better than most of the fucking guys too, better than a lot of the field.
Speaker 4:Yeah yes and when I mean better than I mean easily better than 90, more like 95 yeah, she's better than 90 to 95 percent of the male rappers that have ever lived.
Speaker 4:If we just talking on some bar for bar shit, absolutely.
Speaker 4:And so her putting together an album like this would mean something different about the lyrical dexterity of the album, but it's great enough that we do need to have a conversation about her, because, other than lauren and little kim, when I'm starting to look at rhapsody's catalog, when I'm starting to look at her style, when I'm looking at the mass of great songs that she's made between these, with these two, with these last two albums specifically, when I um look at her contribution to the culture in terms of when she does do features, when I'm thinking about the content, it's like, well, shit, she over damn near everybody except for lauren and and Kim maybe, which is why we probably need to have a conversation about where she is all time.
Speaker 4:Because also, too, I don't remember hearing an album by a woman in this hip hop space that was like really a contender for album of the year, and I feel like she already did it once and I think it's going to be harder for her to do it again this time just because Com and PR are coming, nas and Prima are coming. J Cole better not have the second best rap album from an artist from North Carolina or we're going to have a motherfucking problem up in here.
Speaker 5:Yeah, the fall off has a lot to do.
Speaker 4:It has a lot to do just to become the best rap album to come out of the state of North Carolina this year now at this point. Yeah, so it better be great. Kendrick is coming, drake is probably coming because Kendrick is coming, or vice versa. I really don't give a damn at the end of the day, yeah, we got all of that. You know there's a lot coming down the pipe, man that may help and hurt at the same time.
Speaker 4:So look at like this it's going to be a top 10 rap album this year, like worst case scenario.
Speaker 2:But it's going to be probably top 5, but right now.
Speaker 4:But does the media?
Speaker 2:allow that Worst case scenario. It's going to be, it has to be, but right now. But does the media allow?
Speaker 5:that I'm going to say no and I'm going to say where this album is going to land at the end of the day. You remember how great JID's album was last year the.
Speaker 4:Forever Story. It was the fourth best album that year in my opinion. I believe no, actually I think third, third or fourth the fourth best album that year?
Speaker 5:in my opinion? I believe no, actually, I think third, third or fourth, yes, but for as great as it was, do you feel like it was talked about?
Speaker 4:enough, I know I talked about it. I said if nas didn't exist, it would have won album of the year.
Speaker 5:Well, I mean outside of yourself, because you know I'm saying you're going to cover everything.
Speaker 4:You know what I mean I get what you're saying, but like, here's what you know.
Speaker 5:You used to always tell me you can't fix stupid Armand, you know so we can't fix it, it's just unfortunate, you know, because I think this is going to be more of the same. Comparing it to the JID, I think this is a little bit better than the JID, but I think it'll be somewhat of the same outcome a stellar album that nobody talks about enough that happens in hip-hop oftentimes it does?
Speaker 4:It is part of the risk that you take when you're in this game.
Speaker 5:Plus it's very heavy conceptually and sometimes that doesn't translate well in the commercial space.
Speaker 4:How about this? This is why I bring up the guys that I bring up. Which one like this is better than Lupe's concept albums? Because the songs are better. This is better than Mr Morale, because the songs are better. This is better than the Untitled album by Nas.
Speaker 5:I'm bringing up conceptual albums because the songs are better it is, and it's an album that women can really get behind, or do I've had this album on repeat? I think this is an album for anybody.
Speaker 4:I was playing it with my daughter when we were riding today. I was playing it with my daughter today. We rode to Rhapsody today.
Speaker 2:I had the windows down, I had the windows down, sunroof back.
Speaker 4:We bumping it. It checks everything.
Speaker 2:Not just a female rapper album, but just an album in general. It's a great rap album. The beats are on point, lyrics are there, the concepts are there, hooks are there, even the skits are there. Everything makes sense for this album. My only concern is it doesn't and again this goes back to the female MC that we're going to get into a little bit more it doesn't fit the scheme as what we've been seeing for the past couple of years, and I think she knows that because she made a lot of different in the windows in that in this album she even talked about pleasure herself, but in a tasteful way, not in a way where it was so vulgar that you had to kind of like Whoa, what was that, what was that one? You know, she said it in a very tasteful way. She still expressed herself, right, she in a very tasteful way.
Speaker 4:Sean she. On one of the songs she talks about rubbing her ass against somebody's mother's son.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:She's nice with it though.
Speaker 5:The wordplay is crazy on here.
Speaker 4:That's what I'm saying. She's nice with it when she do it. She get busy with it when she do it. That's where it's different, like. Her talk game is different, like her talk game is different.
Speaker 5:The entendres are crazy, like she does everything on this album at a high level.
Speaker 4:It's masterful. It's a master class of an album. It is.
Speaker 5:But I like how you pointed out, sean, how she's saying things to kind of. She knows where she addresses so many things on this album, like her sexuality or whatever, but she's saying that, hey, I can be sexy even though I'm a spitter, but she's addressing it in a way, like you said, sean, that's very tasteful and in a creative manner and conceptually, where you know, women is not ratchet or none of that, and women can listen to it, relate to it and get behind it. So, you know, I just think it's a stellar album, man. You know, I'd recommend anybody to listen to it at the end of the day, absolutely.
Speaker 2:Absolutely so. With that being said, guys, let's talk about these female MCs just a little bit. We're going to have to go on a deep dive, but how do we rank her in the pantheon of the female rappers? I thought about this for the past several days.
Speaker 4:Hold on, I'm already ready for that because I've thought about it too. So right here I have Twenty eight rappers who just happen to be women, ok, written down, and I think we should do a rundown. I'm going to circle everybody that she hurdles. Is that fair, actually? 29. Sorry, I miscounted. All right, she better than Glo.
Speaker 3:Yes absolutely Sexy Red. Yes, absolutely Koi LeRae. Yes, ice Spice. Yes, absolutely Koi Larray. Yes, yes, ice Spice, yes, yes.
Speaker 4:Gets a little tougher Remy.
Speaker 5:She went on a track head-to-head with Remy and I think she's better.
Speaker 2:I think she's better because she's had more success from a total body music perspective, I think she's a better songmaker, a total body music perspective.
Speaker 4:I think she's a better song maker and thereby has made better albums, and it's comparable lyrically, even when Remy is at her best. But yo.
Speaker 5:If y'all haven't heard that, check out that DJ Premier Hip Hop 50 compilation EP from Mass Appeal. It's called Remy Rap. That's a dope record.
Speaker 4:Might be the dopest record on that project.
Speaker 5:By far. I think it is Me too.
Speaker 3:Trina yes. Lotto yes. Sims yes. Love the Genius yes. Cardi B yes.
Speaker 4:Missy Elliott.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 4:Yes, cardi B yes.
Speaker 5:Missy Elliott. No, I can't give her over, missy.
Speaker 2:They can do the same thing, actually, we're going to put a star back there.
Speaker 4:We're going to put a star by that, heather.
Speaker 3:B.
Speaker 4:Yes, roxanne.
Speaker 5:Shante, i'm'm gonna make Sean answer this one come on, queens, what's up?
Speaker 4:Queens get the money, yeah man Queens, get the money.
Speaker 2:Love you, shante. But um, yeah, she cleared.
Speaker 5:Shante was rapping at a high level at such a young age though, but I gotta give it to rap 14, 15 ahead of the curve, ahead of the curve, for sure.
Speaker 3:Megan Thee Stallion, yes, bahamadia, yes. Curve Ahead of the curve, for sure, megan Thee Stallion, yes, yes. Bahamadiya, yes, yes, yo-yo yes.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 4:That's a tough call, but yeah, che Noir.
Speaker 5:There's a close one, but I'm going to say yes.
Speaker 2:She's more complete.
Speaker 4:I think Che has a chance to rise up in these ranks over the years though, but I hear you are you agreeing with everything so far?
Speaker 5:Coop?
Speaker 4:I do. Okay. I wrote some names down twice, so it's not as many as I thought I was definitely riffing.
Speaker 3:Da Brat, yes, yes lyrics clear.
Speaker 5:The Brat, yes, yes. Lyric is clear.
Speaker 4:I was thinking the same thing. The content is what clears it for me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, more consistent too.
Speaker 3:Eve.
Speaker 5:Yes, eve is a song maker. Eve is a song maker and she's a spitter at heart.
Speaker 2:She's a spitter at heart, she is.
Speaker 5:No, let me rewind that back, and here's why Eve held her on with tracks with Jada Styles, p DMX.
Speaker 4:So on and so forth.
Speaker 3:In their prime.
Speaker 5:Now Rhapsody is rapping alongside Wayne. Now, granted, wayne is not in his prime, but she's spitting right next to him, neck and neck. But I might have to give Eve the edge on that for song-making ability and rapping with spitters in their prime and holding their own. So I'm going to give the edge to Eve on that.
Speaker 4:So here's what I would tell you. Right here is. May I call it a draw, and here's why all those things you're saying are true, but eve's best two albums are not fucking with these last two albums. The first one is close, but if we were ranking the albums in order, rhapsody's last two albums are better than his best album I think they're two occupied, two different spaces.
Speaker 5:I think Eve lives more so in the commercial space and I think that Rhapsody lives more in the critical space. And with that said, I would favor Rhapsody's albums. But I think Eve is appealing to a different kind of audience, if that makes sense. But I would still give the nod to Eve, but barely. I mean, if you say draw, I'm cool with that. What about you, John?
Speaker 2:I like a cool one with that because, if you think about it, eve had help that Rhapsody doesn't have Right. You're with Rough Riders at a point where Raffi was untouchable and you also had Dre and Gwen Stefani as a backdrop the second go around, so you got almost undeniable recipes that you cannot mess up. Rhapsody doing is pretty much for Dolo, if we're being honest. So we have difficulties.
Speaker 5:But that door swings both ways, though, sean, because at the same time, like you have the help, but you got to hold your own around the help. You know what I'm saying? So, and then before, before the locks in them, she was rhyming alongside black thought. You know. So I mean, if we, yeah, if we were to draw that that's you know. But eve, eve is nice, eve is nice yeah okay.
Speaker 4:So this is why I'm saying because eve is top five in my opinion.
Speaker 3:So you go with the draw.
Speaker 2:Let's go with the draw. I don't want her to win, though.
Speaker 4:Let's go with the draw. Queen Latifah Damn.
Speaker 5:She can go the content route with Eve, like all the contents there, but he's not Eve. I'm sorry, we're Rhapsody, but Rhapsody has better wordplay. I'm about to say you want to know who.
Speaker 4:I feel like you know who I feel like Rhapsody really is. She's actually the best parts of queen Latifah and MC light put together.
Speaker 5:That's a hell of a. That's a hell of a. She has Latifah and MC Lyte put together. That's a hell of a.
Speaker 4:She has Latifah's content but she has Lyte's mic presence and verbal gymnastics and tenacity on the mic Right. Because I favor Lyte over Latifah, so do I, but here's what I would tell you. Sean's struggling over there. I want to hear what you say you are. But here's where the catalog matter. Like her last two albums are better than Latifah's best two albums, they just are they are they are.
Speaker 2:Latifah's influence so heavy is more. Her voice is loud, yeah yes, absolutely, absolutely among the female MCs.
Speaker 5:I consider this might be kind of off as an analogy, but I consider Latifah yes, absolutely, absolutely. And I think Latifah is that for the women in some degrees with the, you know content that matters and you know the songs that lasted the test of time and you know that's. That's how I personally look at Latifah, like you know for us men, chuck D.
Speaker 4:But I think that's a great analogy. Ag, but still. But Chuck is high on most people's list still who know really rap from beginning to end, true, so so we're going to say she clears Latifah, we agree Barely, but yeah, I mean we're at the top, we're at the top of the heap now, so it's all barely Foxy Brown.
Speaker 5:This is my bias. Foxy is my favorite female MC of all time, me too.
Speaker 4:This is objective, though.
Speaker 3:Look at us agreeing Coop. This is crazy. It's more, it's more man.
Speaker 2:Look at us agreeing Coop. This is crazy, it's hard, it's hard man.
Speaker 4:Terrible. I feel so embarrassed. I feel sorry for our audience. They deserve to be entertained. Pick somebody else.
Speaker 2:We're going to get Foxy's feature run. Man, Foxy's feature run is not disgusting enough. She smoked J Boots a couple of times on their collabs and we don't talk about that enough. She gave niles a run for his money, az and core mega run for their money on some of those features.
Speaker 5:She's nasty I'm sorry, I love foxy. I got I gotta pick foxy. Barely me too me too barely but rhapsody is on trajectory to. We'll say that.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I agree.
Speaker 4:How about this? I feel like. And see, this is one of those things I've heard Black Roses Foxy's last album before she went deaf in one year I've heard that album. That was probably her best album and she never got to release it because of her problems. When I look at the quality of Ill Nana and Broken broken silence.
Speaker 2:I don't think it's broken, it's her best album that got released.
Speaker 4:Black roses is her best album. Yeah, like, like, part of the album get released. I still feel jay had something to do with that, because she was talking about what happened on the no way out tour and why jay really left. She told the whole story about that. She had some shit to say about the firm. Like you know what I'm saying. She had some shit to say about a lot of niggas on Black Roses and she was never really the same after that album got shelved and then she had. You know, the unfortunate things happen. But I'm okay with that. But I'm barely okay with that because and it's not me being biased, because Rhapsody is from North Carolina, but it is like, no, like this Eve and this Please Don't Cry like back to back, even though it's been some years apart. It's not nothing to sneeze at, it's not.
Speaker 5:Would you take those two albums over Ill Na Na and Broken Silence?
Speaker 4:I would take the albums, but I wouldn't take the songs.
Speaker 5:And that's to your point where you were saying earlier, like it's, you know, a steady play all the way through, but it doesn't have those highs you know.
Speaker 4:Think about it like Foxy had bangers on Broken Silence Candy with Khalid, oh yeah, with Spraga Benz. Bk Anthem, the first record where she started, give me four letters C Dior Chloe Boots. B, chanel A9 Boots. Oh, she was sliding.
Speaker 2:The intro to Book of Silence was crazy.
Speaker 4:In my opinion she has the second best verse On the I Shot you remix. She has the second best verse, in my opinion, after Prodigy. She smashed it.
Speaker 5:I subscribe to LL having the best verse, but I think when LL gets in situations like that, he just comes for everybody. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:He listens to all the verses and he goes right after them.
Speaker 5:Yeah, but yeah, it's either Foxy or Proigy for me. But you know, I just want to reiterate your point again, coop, about the highs on the albums, that this is kind of random with um but with naz, like that's when I'm debating kd3 versus magic 3. To me that's the only thing that gives kd3 the edge is, you know, magic 3 is the straight through player where kD3 has the major highs on it. So you know, I'm starting to see what you're saying about the Rhapsody album. It has some stellar tracks but they don't come off as really high highs. If that makes sense, yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 2:That makes sense. That's a tough one, but yeah.
Speaker 5:But yeah, so did you who you got next. But yeah, so did you who you got next group okay.
Speaker 4:So right now, right now, where we have her is in a tie for third with Eve, based on what y'all saying, because for the people we've covered, we got Foxy and Missy ahead of her right Nicki Minaj.
Speaker 2:I'm gonna say I have to go with Nicki. I gotta go with Nicki. It's too big to go with Nikki. I got to go with Nikki.
Speaker 4:It's too big, isn't it? It's too big to win. Too big to win.
Speaker 5:But my rebuttal is I can agree with that and I won't you know what I'm saying give too much pushback. It's just that Nikki goes too pop too often. I know the spitter that she can be, but you know it's kind of like what people say with Drake. We know he can spit but he, you know, sings too much or what have you. So you know for what Rhapsody brings to the table, I would personally put her over Nikki. But you know Nikki's, you know, presence and career is too strong to like legit. Put her over there.
Speaker 4:It's Queens. It's Queens Get the money again.
Speaker 2:It's Queens. Get the money, man. It's too much man. You'd rather watch Tim Duncan play a game? He's going to be efficient and get you all you need. It's going to win. Or do you want to watch some? The human highlight film Kobe?
Speaker 5:Yeah, and that's not even being because Tim is still the greatest power forward to ever play the game, one of the best.
Speaker 4:He's a top 10 player all the time, absolutely.
Speaker 3:That's disgusting enough.
Speaker 5:I can agree Nikki's over her Okay.
Speaker 4:So Nikki, missy and Foxy.
Speaker 5:MC Lyte.
Speaker 4:I would personally take Lyte. I would personally take Lyte too, but Lyte doesn't have two albums that's even close to these.
Speaker 4:She doesn't, and she's more impactful, but it's kind of a latifah thing over again. That's why I feel like she's the best of latifah and light. She's actually. She's actually because they opened the door for somebody like her. She's actually capitalized on their potential. The way that they didn't get to because of how the industry was ran you used to be a female MC back then it's like you got two or three albums and then you need to go the fuck on somewhere.
Speaker 5:But hearing, like you know, thinking about light and 10% diss and stuff like that, it makes me want to hear Rhapsody come out with a diss track on somebody Just to battle, just to see what her chops are like.
Speaker 4:This is a top 15 diss. It's a top 15 diss. It's very disrespectful. Hot damn ho, here we go again.
Speaker 5:But if we talk about the projects, then Rhapsody definitely got it. I think that's arguably another tie or Rhapsody by a spike Okay so it's really about how we feel.
Speaker 4:Because it's Latifah conversation again. It's like the impact is on light side, the album making is on Rhapsody side. Now, lyrically, rhapsody is better than Latifah. Is Rhapsody lyrically better than light? Because that would be the tiebreaker. Because I would tell you, yes, because of the metaphor play. She's the updated formula of life, she's both of them. She kind of clears them to me because she's capitalized on the best of them. That's fair.
Speaker 3:That's fair.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but does that? I don't want to go into rabbit hole, but does that play more into this life's era?
Speaker 4:I feel like that's what I'm saying. It's not totally fair, fair, but the reality of the matter is, is that light and latifa didn't get to make enough records because of how the industry ran? Yeah, to really run a race against when a rhapsody pops up, it's kind of like somebody like um, it's like how about this? You understand that, like the year that Magic Johnson and Larry Bird got drafted, bill Russell got named the greatest player who ever lived. That year, that was 1979.
Speaker 4:By the time it, was 1995, he wasn't even in most people's top five anymore. Exactly.
Speaker 2:Things progressed so fast, exactly.
Speaker 4:Things have progressed so fast. We just went through a list of 25 female MCs. It used to be. We can only have one, two, three of y'all. Maybe Foe. Foe is pushing it, nigga, he's pushing it. He's pushing it. Negroes, be mindful, he's pushing it. Okay, there's only two left, and that's Lauren and Kim. Is she clearing? Because I feel like both of you are going to say she doesn't clear. Okay, too much.
Speaker 5:So we have our time for what seven?
Speaker 4:Well, hold on. Here's what I would ask you before we get to that Do y'all have Kim at number one, or do you have Lauren at number one? Because I have Kim at number one, because Kim has classic rap albums as a solo artist. I got Lauren. She made classic rap albums after Biggie died. So we can't talk the ghost writing thing either. I agree. She made La Bella Mafia without Big. Notorious Kim is without Big.
Speaker 5:I just got Lauren ahead of Kim, just off the script, I think, even if, put it this way to your point about Lauren, earlier Lauren with her own pen was slap boxing Kim with Biggie's pen, if that makes sense.
Speaker 4:No, that's fair. Okay so so, but what I would tell you to that is is that if we're keeping it funky, well, the only place she beats Kim is her pen, because the impact actually belongs to Lil' Kim.
Speaker 5:Oh, that's the album.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Hold on and let's like and hold on and nothing against. And nothing against Lauren, because Kim ain't no slouch on the mic and Kim actually has more memorable verses than Lauren, even though Lauren's the better lyricist.
Speaker 5:And if we're talking about trees, people who have kids in the game. Lil' Kim has more kids in the game than Lauren does you?
Speaker 4:know what I'm saying. She got more kids in the game than everybody she does Just about, if they are all her children, even the grown ones running around acting like they're not. Yeah, foxy's my favorite, but objectively Kim's better. But what?
Speaker 5:I'm saying is that if acting like they're not, yeah, foxy is my favorite, but objectively Kim's better, you know.
Speaker 4:But what I'm saying is that, if we're sticking with the criteria and the objectives, how is Lauren clearing Kim other than lyrically, because she doesn't clear her anywhere else? She?
Speaker 2:doesn't Catalog Kim, you clips her catalog.
Speaker 5:I mean yeah, we got points from Andre 3000 for, like you could say the same thing about Lauren just not enough material there to go off of yeah, I can't put Lauren ahead of her, like if Lauren had.
Speaker 4:If Lauren had a hardcore, I would put her ahead, but she doesn't. So that would be my hesitation she doesn't we got?
Speaker 2:we gotta keep it being fellas like like. Lauren is more of a hybrid when it comes to that. She's not purely off the hip-hop because if you think about her one and only solo album is heavily r&b it's a hybrid album.
Speaker 5:I think it's considered hip-hop. But I'm with you, though it doesn't have but a few hip-hop tracks on there, but it's heavily considered hip-hop it's really more.
Speaker 4:It's a hip-hop album, but she only raps on three of those tracks.
Speaker 2:It's more contemporary than hip-hop right, but she only raps on three of those tracks. It's more contemporary than hip-hop.
Speaker 4:It's actually the beginning of contemporary hip-hop.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 4:It's groundbreaking in that regard.
Speaker 2:But I don't think it's enough to eclipse Kim.
Speaker 4:It's still just three rap records. Lil' Kim, by the time, no Time goes off is rapped as much on hardcore as Lauryn Hill is wrapped on the entire Miseducation.
Speaker 5:Outside of hardcore, kim still does have the Naked Truth and the LaBella Mafia, so I think Kim has three classics for me.
Speaker 4:I think the Notorious KIM is a great album too.
Speaker 5:It is. I don't consider that one a classic but it is a great album Right.
Speaker 4:So we got Kim one, lauren two, who's at three, missy or Foxy, based on what we've been saying.
Speaker 5:You know what my vote is.
Speaker 2:I got to go Missy. Honestly, I got to go Missy.
Speaker 5:I'm Foxy. Come on, coop, you're the tiebreaker.
Speaker 4:Missy's the first Missy's, the first when I'm making them objective, objective list, I gotta just look at what missy's done to the game, what she's done for other artists, what the album sound like, and it's just like no, she's too.
Speaker 5:She's too versatile too much too much for fox. You know me, I'm trying to be controversial. Fox is at four.
Speaker 4:This time we got Foxy at four. Then, yeah, I can live with that.
Speaker 2:Hold up? Do we have Foxy? Is Foxy over? Oh, over Nicky. We forgot about Nicky Because you got to give Nicky that respect, man.
Speaker 4:No, because, for some of the same reasons, we put Missy ahead of Foxy. We would have to put Missy ahead of Foxy. We would have to put Nikki ahead of Foxy. You have to.
Speaker 5:Nikki took the game to a place that's never been taken before.
Speaker 4:Foxy's a better rapper than both of them. We all know that. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 5:But that's just one slider, you know.
Speaker 4:That's right. So Foxy's five yeah, so that puts Eve and Rhapsody at a tie for six, according to us.
Speaker 5:And then Light would be at seven correct. For me yes. But look at that though, rhapsody's not in bad company. This is her fourth album and we're talking about she's sixth, maybe seventh at the worst all time out of female MCs on her fourth album. To me, that's nothing to sneeze at, fellas, it's nothing, no, it's nothing?
Speaker 4:no, it's not. Here's what I would tell you is. Is that, just like we were talking about common earlier, I think this is one of those moments where not being from the east coast or the west coast ends up hurting somebody's all-time placement. Potentially, too, about the opportunities, because much like I was telling you, like that's why I love scarface. So For me, he's done the most with the least of all the great MCs, because he's been coming out of Houston, texas, since 1988, 89. Plight, but not as big of a mountain to scale as him, because let's look at who we have. Ahead of her we have Missy, who's probably the anomaly of this, but everybody else is from New York. This is all Brooklyn and Queens, hip hop, hip hop's mecca. You get what I'm saying. So when I talk about the East Coast having a home court advantage, you start seeing it reflect. When you make accurate and objective lists, think about this East Coast. Kim Light, eve Latifah Foxy, nikki Che, lauren Bahamadia.
Speaker 3:Roxanne Chante, Heather B.
Speaker 5:She's tied with Eve and Eve is from Philly, which is more known for spitters than North Carolina.
Speaker 4:So yeah, that does hurt, yeah yeah, so imagine if she was from Philly, from Brooklyn, or Queens from Jersey, like on the East Coast everybody that's ahead of her.
Speaker 4:look at the people that we have ahead of her Foxy Brown, nicki Minaj, missy Elliott, lauryn Hill, lil' Kim Missy's from Virginia. That's ahead of her. Look at the people that we have ahead of her Foxy Brown, nicki Minaj, missy Elliott, lauryn Hill, lil' Kim Missy's from Virginia. But Virginia is kind of like North Carolina's heavy East Coast aesthetic. If you tell them they say we got a heavier East Coast aesthetic than y'all, I feel like we got better lyricists outside of. No, they got skills too. They got skills and push. I don't even know.
Speaker 5:But I'll tell you what I like the position that she's in, because it does work against her in this respect, but at the same time, like as she continues to progress in this culture, like her and Cole. And then the Fontes of the world can say they, the ones that put North Carolina on the map and on their back you know what I mean to get it looked at as one of the you know place for the dopest mcs to come from. So north carolina is not there yet, but if it ends up getting to that point, then she's one of the main people that you point to right oh, absolutely, I think so yeah, I'd rather be the pioneer.
Speaker 5:You know like I'm pioneering this thing for West Virginia. You know what I'm saying while y'all hating. You know what I mean. Don't say y'all.
Speaker 4:That's between you and Sean.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 3:All I know.
Speaker 4:I'm not trying to instigate. He just told me that he's not sure if your Wi-Fi works in West Virginia. I'm not instigating at all.
Speaker 5:Sorry, Kool. Hey, my picture looks crispier than Sean's. I don't know what Sean's talking about. I mean, maybe it's just me, Maybe it's just me, I don't know.
Speaker 4:I'm close to the water man, I'm close to the water, so she's right outside the top five and we've pretty much surmised that the only people that she can jump and hurdle into this argument would be another great album or another or a string of guest runs. Maybe might prompt her over even Foxy Brown and comfortably place that fifth, but she's probably not going any higher than fifth.
Speaker 5:Because of the impact. It's not there, because the impact's not there.
Speaker 4:Okay, with all of that being said, j Cole better make album of the fucking year, because she just put herself in all-time territory with all-time great people. Her last two albums have been stellar and nothing short of so. I'm not even sure if he doesn't do what he's supposed to do. I'm not sure if he's the best MC in North Carolina right now, because you're as good as what your record, your fucking reputation, says it is. And I told you, as much as I may love this feature run, as epic as this feature run has been, it much as I may love this feature run, as epic as this feature run has been, it's been one of the better feature runs in rap history, if we're really being honest with ourselves. You were judged, especially when you're already known to be great. Oh no, you were judged by the quality of albums that you make over here.
Speaker 3:So you better make an album of the year.
Speaker 5:If we're being honest, she's closer to the top of the female list than Cole is on the male list.
Speaker 4:That's what I mean about when I'm saying he better make album of the fucking year, Because she actually has made two album of the year, in my opinion one year and now a verified album of the year. Contender Game time pressure's on Like right now, Like all that other shit. At the end of the day, the beef thing to Bound Down. Like I said, when I went on Rap Roundtable and talked to Jarv and Sin and Beanie and Mase, I was like this nigga need to make only bill for Cuban links.
Speaker 2:Or Clemeni.
Speaker 4:Or. Reasonable Doubt he better go find that shit.
Speaker 5:I don't think it'll matter, you know, if he makes one of those.
Speaker 4:I don't think he really bumps up that many slots really if Mark Kelly can be a nasty bastard and Chocolate Factory fix it for three years, yes, we can. We not doing this again?
Speaker 5:you remember last time what happened when you brought up Chocolate Factory? We don't. We tried not to get canceled bro. I told you that this nigga again Coop. You remember last time what happened when you brought up Chocolate Factory? We tried not to get canceled bro.
Speaker 4:I told you. I told you that this nigga better step in the name of love. This year, you better Sean no.
Speaker 3:When we are having our year-end roundup.
Speaker 4:when we are having our year-end roundup, I do not want to be talking about a J Cole album being the second best album to come out of the state and I do not want to hear about him having the second best mic performance in the state either.
Speaker 5:Okay, let's say he does release the best album of the year and the best mic performance. Where does his all-time ranking go? Because that's the conversations that we're having with the Drakes, the Kendricks and the coals of the world. I don't.
Speaker 4:He's still not moving past either one of them he's not he's not moving even if he's not passing even one of them, either one of them, but he can elevate this error by placing himself in the top 20. He can elevate his error still I think it's.
Speaker 2:That's a fair goal.
Speaker 5:That's a fair goal. That's a fair goal to have.
Speaker 4:If you could produce three top 20 all time from one error. That validates the error.
Speaker 2:I agree, I don't disagree, I just don't think he has it.
Speaker 4:Part of what's invalidating this error is that it's like one and a possible two. We got two. That's so fucking cute when we're used to having four or five.
Speaker 2:Right, who hears it?
Speaker 5:Well, I think, personally, kendrick and Drake were elevated on my list because of the battle. You know what I mean. But I think Cole is either staying where he's at or he can't move up very high. You know, he dropped on a lot of people's lists because of the apology and that's not even don't have nothing to do with his art, right. So if he comes out with a dope album, let's not say dope, let's say he comes out with a classic. I don't think it'll be enough to leapfrog the people of his own era, more or less leapfrog somebody else from an era that's a bygone era that we hold above cold. So I don't want to say it'll be for nothing, but because I want a classic album as well. But how many spots is he really moving If he puts out a classic? One? One, two at the most.
Speaker 4:No, I can see him hurt Because of this feature run, because of the feature run and because a lot of his earlier albums, although not classic, are holding up. Well, it's not like he has a bad catalog, guys.
Speaker 3:No, he has a good catalog. He doesn't have a bad catalog. Very good catalog.
Speaker 4:This is a very good catalog that we are talking about Very good catalog.
Speaker 2:I agree with that. I agree with that.
Speaker 4:And we're just being objective folks, because Cole is my favorite out of the three your catalog doesn't become masterful to me until you have at least two classics that we can speak on Absolutely.
Speaker 3:And so he can't change his thing.
Speaker 4:Because here's the thing. How about this? How can you have him ahead of Cool G Rap? Cool G Rap has two, maybe three rap classics. How can you, realistically, how can you do it?
Speaker 3:That conversation was tricky.
Speaker 4:I understand that, but that's just a piece of the puzzle. He's not winning the album. Conversation against Cool.
Speaker 2:G Rap. Yet he's not.
Speaker 4:He doesn't have a live and let die and a one of dead or alive, which were released back to back, by the way.
Speaker 2:And AG, I think the element, the chamber that he could go into, he can't go into, he can't speak before. That's the biggest thing.
Speaker 4:That's the biggest thing that's the biggest thing, like hold on, can he jump over somebody like a method man with an all-time great album? Possibly is it possible. You all tell me, can he jump? Can he jump a push of t with a all-time great album, like I'm asking y'all now to me, I already had him ahead of.
Speaker 5:Pusha.
Speaker 2:I don't I think it's close.
Speaker 5:I think it's close, but I'm not mad at y'all saying y'all got Pusha ahead, but cause Pusha has the benefit of having classes with a group and as a solo artist. So you know, I can see giving him the edge.
Speaker 4:I really don't care. It's not fair, it sucks. Make better albums. Make better albums.
Speaker 5:Method man was actually a good example, but I couldn't put him over Meth personally, but objectively his trajectory would have put him up there.
Speaker 2:But until, like who said, until he releases, we cannot identify a legitimate classic album from Cole. Right now we can't say this is unanimous.
Speaker 5:We can't, but this era will tell you different. They swear by 2014. I haven't, I haven't heard it.
Speaker 4:I'll give him that. That's still one. Yeah, it's only one.
Speaker 5:And that's not even my favorite. Born Sinner is my personal favorite. It's not enough.
Speaker 4:In a lot of ways, Born Sinner plays better in terms of something you can ride to. That's probably why you feel that way.
Speaker 5:What would y'all say about Jadakiss? Because Jadakiss is in my top five but objectively, I know he doesn't have a classic album himself. So do you think, because of Cole's impact, do you think he's ahead of Jada?
Speaker 4:No not at all, so I don't have him ahead of a Jada Kiss or a Method man yet, but an all-time great album or a classic rap album. Now we can start having a discussion because, like I told, when all of this started I said, oh well, he has the most to gain and he has the most to lose, because had he engaged in this and won this, he would have put himself ahead of the both of them, which would have haunted him into top 15 status here's an opportunity at top 15 status to be friendly.
Speaker 5:And his task was easier than Drake's because all he had to do was try to take out Kendrick. Drake had to take out like 20 people.
Speaker 4:I'm about to run around Philly like Rocky and have Meek Mill record it for me and then we're going to flick it up for the gram.
Speaker 2:I don't have him over game. I struggle putting him over. Honestly, I would struggle putting him over styles, with BC sitting at the top of the steps I'm going rocky on these niggas.
Speaker 4:If you're telling me I can make top 15 I'm drinking eggs out the blender. I'm drinking eggs out the glass raw who'd you say?
Speaker 5:who'd you say uh sean, you said you don't have them over styles p, you can cut out for a little bit I have a hard time putting them over.
Speaker 2:Stiles P If I'm putting these guys in tierings, I would put Cole maybe in that third tiering, and that third tiering is a good tiering because I think in that third tiering you have a Stiles, you have a Beanie, you have a Gain. I think you can put someone. I would honestly probably place him in that third tier and with that third tier group.
Speaker 5:Now to be clear you have. You have Drake and Kendrick in the second.
Speaker 2:I'll put Drake and Kendrick in that second.
Speaker 5:I think you have them properly placed. I think I think he's properly placed.
Speaker 2:He's in that third tier. That third tier is a group. Still that's a good group where they probably have the longevity but they probably had the pockets where they were probably one of the best in their profession. If you think about Styles P, styles P catalog is not a bad catalog.
Speaker 3:He has a classic.
Speaker 2:He has a strong catalog. Rap bar for bar Styles P to me is better than J Cole. I think Cole may have more body when it comes to an actual album, but it's not by a large margin, because if you go back and listen to Gangsta and the Gentleman, styles P is checking a lot of boxes on Gangsta and the Gentleman.
Speaker 4:A lot of boxes. So, sean, what I would rebuttal with you on that is that. That's why I feel like Cole's feature run was so important to me, because for people like Styles, who I felt like had comparable album catalogs, well, now I can tell you what Cole makes better, more well-rounded songs, and he makes bigger songs. And so, lyrically, what he just did on this feature run was catapult himself over people like Styles to me. But I feel like that next tier is the Method man, jada Kiss type of conversation and it's like and I'm not saying that he hurdles meth because of all the Wu-Tang contributions, his contribution might be the best fucking contribution if we're talking about somebody coming from a group and what the classic stuff sounds like, because if you go to their classic songs, guess who's almost on all of them.
Speaker 2:He's on them.
Speaker 5:He has timeless songs, method's feature catalog is better than Cole's feature catalog.
Speaker 4:First of all, his feature catalog, in my opinion, is better than everybody else's. He has the best feature catalog. Actually Nobody's on more classic rap albums than Method man. I'm pretty certain he's the only guest rapper on Ready to Die people, hello.
Speaker 2:And he gave Big that work.
Speaker 5:Put that work in he did. He did.
Speaker 4:He's on Ready to Die. Ready to Die is not the thing about Meth that makes Meth so special. I hate to sidebar, like you know what I mean, but just on some rap shit. What makes meth so special is that there are truly albums that are classic without him, but he elevates the status of those classic albums with his songs the what gives Ready to Die an extra jump on the classic scale.
Speaker 4:It does the, what, the hook, the ice cream and the hook in the verse on Wu Gambino's give the purple tape an extra jump. At the end it does. I tell people it's the best second half of a rap album in rap history because Method man helped close the album out. Yeah, Liquid.
Speaker 5:Swords ain't the same without Shadowboxing. Without Shadowboxing, it's not.
Speaker 2:It's not, he'll spin a scum missile. He see a Johnny Blazin'.
Speaker 5:It's different. But I think to Sean's point even if you're in that third tier or about to crack that second tier, it's crowded down there, right, you know. So it's really you have to parse it out like what makes each mc get the slight edge over the next one right.
Speaker 2:So, um, it's still a good collective because you still may have you think about this. Would you put them on 50 cent?
Speaker 4:that's, that's tough, you know, and that's one of those conversations you can potentially start having. He's not in those conversations, I don't think yet, and he hurt his stock by doing that. I'm not saying he gets elevated above them, but now it becomes conversational, it becomes the shit that you rap about and now it's like hold on, like if you feel that way with after this album, name me 20 mcs better than j cole, then like he can have that conversation, then well, it all depends on how stuff's weighted, like if you take a course or whatever.
Speaker 5:Certain grades are weighted more than others. It all depends on what we're talking about, because I would say pun is in that third tier but pun has a definitive classic album well, I wouldn't say definitive classic, but a widely regarded classic album in capital punishment. But people would say he doesn't have enough material in his discography. But cole does have an extensive discography. But you know, it all depends on how you weight and things. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4:So but, if he had, but but if he had an album that rivaled capital punishment there you go capital punishment. Guess what he gets to leapfrog pun, and it's really not without much of an explanation. The fact that the fact that we are having to explain if he's better than Big Pun or not because of capital punishment is the problem that I'm talking about.
Speaker 3:I don't think he has albums.
Speaker 2:They don't sound like. Ready to Die or Life After Death?
Speaker 5:I don't think he has a cool, or what's cool is Lupe's second joint and then the first joint. I don't think he has a cool, or um or uh. What's um cool is Lupe's second joint and then the first joint, I don't know why. Escaping food and liquor. Yeah, I don't think Forest Hills drive is better than either one of those.
Speaker 4:I agree, cause I think the cool was on midnight marauders level.
Speaker 2:It's close it's up Close.
Speaker 5:Since we have an album talk. You know, coop. I know you got to slide in a little bit. Y'all ready, sean, you want to transition to the next one? Let me say this last piece Okay, go ahead.
Speaker 2:I want people to think that, because some of you are going to watch this after the fact and we're not going to be live. But we're not shitting on Cole at all. What we're saying is don't confuse where he's at right now versus the trajectory. The trajectory we know what he can get to. That's what we're saying. Get to that trajectory that we know you can get to, but don't forget where you are right now. That's all I'm going to say. So let's get into this Now. We've been talking about these albums. Let's get into this Apple nonsense that they're trying to justify. Anytime you have to justify your list, you're losing already. So let's get into that. Coop before Coop, get out of here. Where y'all want to start, man, I don't even know when y'all want to start.
Speaker 5:Before we did, we lose Coop.
Speaker 3:No, I'm here seconds okay, okay, um, let me post the oh, that's the top 10.
Speaker 5:Right there, guys, right but before we, before we get into the um, the order of the list, um, you know, I think it's a bigger discussion to be had and we don't have to go down this rabbit hole or whatever. But what I want to point out a lot of times, when lists like this are formed by major platforms, right, they usually miss the mark because of two reasons, one or the other. Usually In previous times it's been because they never gave the proper acknowledgement to hip hop or, you know, artists of black culture, hip hop and r&b, right, right. So that's one of the problems in, you know, previous years. But I went through this list and I kind of broke it down and what I did find on here that out of the 100 placements, you got 43 placements that are for Black artists or groups or people of color. So that's close to half of the list. So they did better in that regard. So I want to start with love, right, and out of those 43 placements, 21 of those are hip-hop placements.
Speaker 5:And I think in previous times, big corporations, they kind of didn't consider hip hop one of the major music art forms. I think they disregarded it, I think that they um, discredited, you know, just from a lyrical standpoint, I think we're the best music art form. It is because 16 bars I'm not talking about the watered down stuff, but writing 16 bars, a 16 bar verse, lyric wise, is more that has to be put into that. As far as meat and potatoes of a song versus a sing, a sung song, you know what I mean, because you got these small verses, a bridge, a hook, a refrain, and granted you have to you bridge a hook, a refrain, and granted you have to.
Speaker 5:You know it might be a lot that goes into writing those lyrics, but the time and the effort and the care it takes to write two to three 16 bar verses or more than that, and plus a hook, you know people of our culture are writers, writers, writers, and I think a lot of these publications are just now getting around to the point where they're acknowledging our culture as such. You know what I mean and even the producers. I consider an npc damn near an instrument. You know what I mean. But I think they try to discredit us on that end because of hip-hop is formatted on the basis of sampling from other classic records to form our sound. So I think in the past they kind of, you know, didn't give us our praise, but now hip-hop is undeniable, it's the highest selling genre. So I think, with 21 hip-hop placements, which is 21% of the list, I think they did okay in that regard.
Speaker 3:Here's where they mess gets.
Speaker 5:No here's where they get. Here's where they mess up. Here's where they mess up, in my opinion, out of those placements, it's like coming from the perspective of a casual fan. That's out of touch, because the placements that you did pick, some deserve, deserve to be there, some don't. It's a lot of glaring omissions, but the ones that do deserve to be on the list are not properly ranked, because if you take those albums out of this all-time 100 album list and place it with our own genre list, and place it with our own genre, you got songs that's making top 10 of all genres. That's not even top 10 within our personal genre of hip-hop, which is kind of crazy to think. So that just lets me know that a lot of these platforms are out of touch with what some albums mean to the culture, and that's what I'll say about it. I'll let you go ahead, coop, because I know you limited on time.
Speaker 2:I ain't giving him none of that.
Speaker 4:We still got another 40 minutes, I'm fine. So if you got more you want to share, please do.
Speaker 5:Okay, no, that's just what I was alluding to, you know. But the placements are egregious because, like I said, you got albums in the top 10 of all albums, all genres of all time. That's not even top 10 within our own confinements of rap and hip-hop, so that just tells me that you're out of touch, you know you. You're giving too much grace go ahead, go ahead, cook them then I'll say sean, do you have something you'd like to say?
Speaker 2:I want to show this to Coop first, and then I get in my fitting because, again, this is their rubric that they utilize.
Speaker 5:Oh, this is my first time seeing this.
Speaker 4:In a cultural moment for the artist or genre. No shit. Albums that were complete thoughts, not just collections of hit songs. First of all, what the fuck is Thriller and Purple Rain? Those are collections.
Speaker 2:That fucking did, thank you. That's why I wanted y'all to see this Put that in three and four I don't know if I'm doing this politically, but I want y'all to see this.
Speaker 4:Albums that thoroughly represent culture and production, and lyrics Shit. It's an album. There's beats there, there's beats.
Speaker 5:There's rhymes.
Speaker 4:I'm bringing that back up.
Speaker 5:This is my Yo pause. That sounds crazy, that was crazy.
Speaker 4:Albums that represent the best in storytelling, musicianship, recording and production. Albums that are timeless and reach far beyond.
Speaker 5:And Illmatic is 39. What?
Speaker 4:does far beyond mean. What does far beyond mean Yo?
Speaker 2:that's what I'm saying. You say all of those things, but yet we here, yeah.
Speaker 5:And that you know that's my first time seeing the rubric and I know we're going to get to number one, but I'm going to just put this out there I love Lauren. We just talked about Lauren that being number one over Thriller. I think it was for the optics of it, because they did a ceremony where they presented her with an award and they had a little banquet deal. Mj's no longer here with us, so I think putting the miseducation at number one was more so the optics to have a champion.
Speaker 2:They ain't gonna do it. You get on too much grace, man. You get way too much grace.
Speaker 3:Thriller and.
Speaker 2:Purple.
Speaker 5:Rain should be two.
Speaker 4:Thriller and Purple Rain are just a collection of fucking non-stop hits. It's a hit fucking factory.
Speaker 2:On both albums. It's a hit factory. It's a hit factory.
Speaker 4:You understand that both of those albums produce four or five top ten songs from the album yeah.
Speaker 5:I'll tell you what. Off the Wall's not on there. Sean. Like those platforms that I'm talking about, don't value Off the Wall. Like Black culture values Off the.
Speaker 3:Wall, they're out of touch. They're telling them.
Speaker 2:Black culture didn't buy Off the Wall. Though AG you're touch. They told them AG, you're giving them too much grace. Black culture wasn't buying off the wall like that Off the wall don't go diamond without them.
Speaker 5:That's true.
Speaker 2:No, that's true. Stop playing with these guys Come on man.
Speaker 4:What I'd like to do before I start speaking is I actually want? To shout out my dear friend Andrew Andrew working behind the scenes and Andrew from Mirror Music Same guy.
Speaker 4:Yeah, andrew's part of the Hip Hop Talks team. When AG is talking about Andrew earlier, he's talking about the homie Andrew that I've been talking about and doing Mirror Music with for years. We're all a family here. Shout out to Andrew. Because of Andrew. I knew a good bit of these albums on the list that didn't belong in the hip-hop and R&B genre, as in at least 30 of them I am acquainted with with a higher familiarity or just acquainted with in general because of Andrew, and so I'm about to speak to everything. I'm going to speak from the other side of the coin the best that I can, but I do want to start off by saying this For us in the black community that may feel like that this list failed. You Do not feel bad. You see, this list is bad all around because it failed white people too. That's the only saving grace. This album is failing. White people too is what I realized. Andrew and I had a whole conversation today. Let me tell you something. The biggest problem.
Speaker 4:Yes, right, it's failed white people too. They're equal opportunity haters over there at Apple Music. Oh man, everybody's catching a fade, apparently Everybody. Listen to me very carefully when I say this the most egregious thing that actually happened with this list Is it the best album that the best rock band who ever lived ever made Didn't make this list.
Speaker 4:Sergeant Peppers by the Beatles is their best piece of work. Yeah, listen to what I'm saying. Damn a genre. It's one of the 10 best albums I've ever heard in my life and it's not even fucking conversational. It's nowhere to be found. So the fact that Abbey Road is at number three, I believe Hold on, where do I have it? Abbey Road at number three. That's probably their third or fourth best album. At best, as in St, sergeant Peppers and Revolver are both like. This is for people who love the Beatles. They'll tell you this. Like Andrew will pull up and tell you this. Like, abbey Road is probably their third or fourth best album on a good day. So the fact that Sergeant Peppers isn't sitting in number three and didn't even make this list is actually the most egregious thing about this list. So I want to be clear about that, even though this is Hip Hop Talks. So I just want our people to understand, although they don't know what the fuck they're doing across the board. Apparently it's cross-generational fuck-up, cross fuck up, just fucking up. Okay, right Now I'm going to bring up some albums that I know don't belong, because I don't know everything about pop culture, music and dance music and techno music.
Speaker 4:There are about 25 to 30 of these albums that I'm not as acquainted with like I should be, but I'm going to bring up some albums that I feel like should not belong on this list, because I have a list after that of albums that should belong on this list, or at least potentially. Astroworld by Travis Scott doesn't belong on this list. Neither does Flower Boy by Tyler Marshall Mathers. Lp Voodoo by D'Angelo doesn't belong on this list. Paul's Boutique by the Beastie Boys doesn't belong on this list. I'm going to be fair here. This is for all you Kendrick fans, who are the worst fucking fans in the history of rap fans. You're the Dallas Cowboys of rap fans. Take.
Speaker 2:Care by.
Speaker 4:Drake doesn't belong on this list it doesn't no, not that one.
Speaker 5:The. Blueprint doesn't belong on this list either. Hold on. I don't think Drake has an album period that belongs on the Top 100 Album of All Time list. Sean.
Speaker 3:Me neither no, not at all.
Speaker 4:The Blueprint doesn't belong on this list. It doesn't. It might be borderline, but it doesn't belong on this list.
Speaker 5:I would say low, but I would say it still belongs.
Speaker 4:I don't think so, but you can replace it with Reasonable Doubt, which is what the fuck you should have done, but okay.
Speaker 3:For what it means to Jay. Based on their rubric.
Speaker 2:Reasonable Doubt should have been here over Blueprint.
Speaker 4:Second biggest tragedy and I'm just making sure I didn't miss this is off the wall by Michael Jackson on this list.
Speaker 2:No, that's what I was asking.
Speaker 3:It's not on the list. It needs to be there.
Speaker 2:It's not on the list.
Speaker 3:Y'all made a top 100 album list.
Speaker 2:AG said, because we bought Hold on, hold on, hold on.
Speaker 4:Listen to what I'm about to say. This is what I mean. They're equal opportunity fuck-ups on a day like today. So y'all took white people's favorite album and left it off the list, and then y'all took black people's favorite album and took it off the list too. You don't know anything.
Speaker 5:I think Bad deserves to be on the list, if I'm being honest.
Speaker 4:No, absolutely Over Off the Wall.
Speaker 5:That has hits left and right, but not Over Off the Wall, no, not over that, but I still think it's one of the top 100 albums ever.
Speaker 4:I don't agree with that. I'd also probably put five prince albums in the top 100 if I could, so you can't, I think.
Speaker 4:I think janet has about three or four that should be in here like you know, I'm saying you got to go across all genres so you got to be very careful yeah, that's tough yeah, it's tough to go across all the genres and I feel like, like a prayer from madonna, shouldn't be there now, some of these albums that I feel like they shouldn't be there isn't because the albums aren't good enough to be considered. It's because they picked the wrong album from the artist, in my opinion, right.
Speaker 2:Because you blended the genres right now to make a list.
Speaker 4:You blended the genres, so pick the best album.
Speaker 5:Am I correct? Real quick, coop. I think Beyonce and Prince are the only people that have two placements correct and Prince are the only people that have two placements correct?
Speaker 4:No, the Beatles have two placements because they have Abbey Road at three and Revolver at 22, I believe. Let me see who else had two placements.
Speaker 5:If they're picking two for Prince, they got those right.
Speaker 4:They picked his two best albums. We're going to get to talk about where they place things in a moment the omissions from this list, because those are the ones that I feel like don't belong, like for certain, and there are probably some more that don't belong. I just need to get acquainted with those records and this list is actually making me want to get acquainted with those records. So probably about two, because I really do listen to everything. Omissions are obviously off the wall. That would be the biggest omission on this side sergeant peppers and off the wall. You understand that sergeant peppers and like the whole name of the album is is a fake band name that paul mccartney made up because they were so famous they literally couldn't even walk out their fucking front door without being mobbed by thousands of crazy white people. It's an album about them acting under a whole band name.
Speaker 4:The musicianship is flawless. John Lennon and Paul McCartney are two of the best musicians and songwriters who have ever lived. This is the album where they do their Ray and Ghost shit. This is their Ray and Ghost album. This is their purple tape. It is rock music's equivalent to the purple tape. The way John Lennon and Paul McCartney are weaving and dancing. It's the ray and ghost of the culture. It's not even on this list. Yo mama, my mama and everybody else's mama. When you ask them about Michael Jackson, they'll be like I love Michael Jackson. Off the wall, michael Jackson.
Speaker 5:Many people consider Off the Wall better than Thriller, so for it to be omitted is crazy.
Speaker 4:It goes almost song for song with.
Speaker 5:Thriller. It goes song for song, it can.
Speaker 4:Song for song with Thriller.
Speaker 5:The records on Thriller are just bigger, but quality-wise they're neck and neck.
Speaker 4:They're more quality. Off the Wall and Sign of the times have the same problem. Purple rain and thriller are such big records that everybody can enjoy, then it's hard to appreciate how truly classic the songs are being made on those two respective albums but, sign of the times, made the list and after all, didn't't?
Speaker 5:That's the crazy part.
Speaker 4:That's wild, because how about this? For me, prince and Michael do have two of the 10 greatest albums of all time. They take up four of my personal top 10 spaces, because I do consider Off the Wall to be a top 10 album and I consider Sign of the Times to be a top 10 album. Even if you want to put them at 9 and 10, they're there.
Speaker 5:Those albums are like that. Well, that speaks to Beyonce's two placements, because she got on there for Lemonade and then their self-titled Beyonce. I mean they could have took one of those off and put Off the Wall on there.
Speaker 4:Actually okay. So I didn't put Beyonce on my regular list because I have a star by Beyonce's name and I was going to talk about that. You just want to go there, Sure, my fault.
Speaker 5:I didn't mean to throw you off course, my bad.
Speaker 4:No, you're cool. Well, part of the reason why I have Beyonce start off to the side is because, you know, some people think that this is a you know platform that seems to believe that Nas is the greatest MC of all time and thereby we hate Jay and everything Jay does, which totally isn't true. No, not at all. We're going to talk about the blueprint in a minute. And it's not that I don't think Jay has a top 100 album. I just feel like in a lot of cases, like they did here, they picked the wrong album from the right artist. But in the case of Beyonce, I'm just going to say this subjectively as I can she's the greatest stage performer of this generation. She's an icon. She's an icon. She's a brilliant artist and singer, talented songwriter. She's got a little bit of everything in the bag, but I don't think either one of her albums deserve to be on this list. A Seat at the Table by Solange is better than everything Beyonce has ever made, in my opinion, and that's just what my ears are telling me.
Speaker 3:I understand how big the records are.
Speaker 4:I understand how big she is, but I feel like, more than anybody else who made this list whose name is gigantic, she's the one that got the biggest pass, Because neither one of those albums are my life, are Baduism. You know what I'm saying? It's definitely not in no purple rain off the wall. Songs in the key of life, inner visions, what's going on territory it's not even sniffing that level. So I have a star by her name because I feel like that she did get placed in there because they didn't have a choice but to place her in there because of how big she is. But if you're really doing the top 100 albums, you have to keep your integrity intact and keep it funky, and she does not have any top 100 albums in my opinion. I'm sorry.
Speaker 5:I'm glad you said that, coop, because I think that was the reason for the Drake placement at 47 with Take Care. Drake's such a big artist of this generation and for the past 15 years they said we have to pick a Drake project to be on here so he's represented. But Take Care is not a top 100 album all the time, it's just not. I consider it a classic, but it's not a top 100 album.
Speaker 2:It's not even his best album.
Speaker 4:Yeah right, thank Me Later. And If You're Reading, this Is Almost Too Late. Are both better to me, easy.
Speaker 5:Do you think his first album is better than Take Care?
Speaker 4:Thank, Me Later I do. There's first album is better than take care, uh thank. Thank me uh, later I do. There's something about it that's kind of like nostalgic.
Speaker 5:Now, at this point you're like you're the first person I've ever heard say that I I hear a lot of people put, uh, nothing was the same as his best I mean, if you're reading this, if you're reading this, it's almost too late as his best album.
Speaker 4:Are we all clear on that?
Speaker 5:yeah, I'm different because I say so far gone and I know that don't count, it's not an official, it's a mixtape, but I think so far gone is his best work let me get to these omissions.
Speaker 4:So we have off the wall death certificate by Ice Cube anybody? America's Most Wanted by Ice Cube, maybe? How about Supreme Clientele? How about the Infamous by Mobb Deep, paid in Full by Eric B and Rakim, which I feel like is the most egregious one because it's the true top 10 album that they left off the list. It's Dark and Hell is Hot by DMX anybody?
Speaker 3:That needs to be there.
Speaker 4:Only Built for Cuban links. Rick Juan featuring Ghostface Killer and the rest of the motherfucking Wu-Tang Clan with their A-game with the Nas verse sprinkled on top.
Speaker 5:Which is arguably better than 36 Chambers, if we're being real.
Speaker 4:It is. They're both two top 10 rap albums in my opinion, but the Purple Tape got them.
Speaker 5:They perfected their formula on the purple tape yeah, so at 36 is there, then cuban link has to be there, but it's. They're playing the name recognition game like we can't have a cuban link album. As a solo woo member, we got to represent the whole Wu, so the choice is 36 chambers.
Speaker 4:I don't give a damn, that's what.
Speaker 5:I'm saying I see their angles, I see what they're doing. I'm not giving credence to it.
Speaker 2:I just see what they're doing. Did it cash out for you?
Speaker 3:I wish Brown sugar by D'Angelo not voodoo.
Speaker 4:Brown sugar by D'angelo, not voodoo brown sugar by d'angelo. That's crazy. Brown sugar by d'angelo belongs on this list they put voodoo instead of like a prayer for madonna, how about bedtime stories by madonna, which is actually her best album from indian?
Speaker 5:madonna has a lot of great albums she, she arguably, can have two on here. And she has two other contenders after that, in my opinion, I think Madonna could take out anybody in the verses, maybe other than Janet.
Speaker 4:I would concur with those sentiments. How about Reasonable Doubt or Blueprint? Yes, how about the College Dropout?
Speaker 2:You have to put the College Dropout on there.
Speaker 4:What about Life After Death?
Speaker 5:I think they picked the wrong album with Big yes, yeah, how about the college dropout? You have to put a college dropout on there, yeah.
Speaker 3:What about Life After Death? I think they picked the wrong album with Big I've been saying this.
Speaker 5:Sean knows this. I think he has to win the top 100. I don't think Ready to Die is like that. I think Life After Death is clearly his better album. But people always put Ready to Die on these lists and I think Life After Death is the far superior album, big's far superior. As an MC. On that record it ticked all the boxes.
Speaker 3:Moment of truth. It's crazy.
Speaker 5:Yeah, yeah, moment of truth could be on here.
Speaker 4:What do you think if I told you that the Eminem show is better than the Marshall Mathers LP? And if an Eminem album has to go on here like a Drake album or a Beyonce album has to come over here, it should actually be the Eminem show.
Speaker 5:That's not a hot take. I agree with you. That's my favorite Eminem album and, like I said, out of the three of us, I'm probably the biggest Eminem fan and that's by far his best work.
Speaker 4:Okay, so those are the albums that I feel like were omitted, that I could just think of. Now here are the albums that I think are rated too low, and I have it across the board because I've heard all these records now Hotel California by the Eagles is 99. White people are screaming right now. I'm going crazy over that one.
Speaker 4:White people are screaming right now. They are highly upset that this album is ranked number 99. West Virginia Naked. Some of them are probably what Negro came up with this list and got this list wrong, the same way we are standing over here like what white person came up with this list, got this list wrong. It's the same thing going on. Doggy style is 84?.
Speaker 5:That should be in the top 20.
Speaker 4:Let's get it clear. Let's get it very, very clear Of all the albums that they named on this list, as far as their rap albums that made it With the exception of Illmatic Doggy Stomp's better than all of those albums, Doggy Stomp's better than all of those albums that they named. I don't know what the fuck they're smoking.
Speaker 5:The only one I would give you pushback on Coop is 36 Chambers, I think 36.
Speaker 3:Chambers.
Speaker 5:But it's close. It's close, I think, 36 Chambers, but it's close. It's close, I think, 36 Chambers, but they got more. I ain't gonna say properly rated, but they're much higher than Doggy Style. We'll put it that way.
Speaker 4:Yeah, Get Rich or Die. Trying is 82. It needs to be higher.
Speaker 5:What are we doing?
Speaker 3:What are we doing? That should be higher. What are we doing?
Speaker 5:That shut everything down man.
Speaker 4:Baduism is 64. What are we doing?
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Sign of the Times by Prince is 51. What in the fuck?
Speaker 5:A lot of people argue Sign of the Times is better than Purple Rain.
Speaker 4:In my opinion, it is that's why I have it as a top 10 album. If I'm doing an objective list, I have Sign of the Times ahead of Purple Rain. In my opinion, it is that's why I have it as a top 10 album. If I'm doing an objective list, I have Sign of Times ahead of Purple Rain, but I understand what Purple Rain is, yeah. It shouldn't be that much space between the two of them you cannot have one album at four and have that other album at 51,.
Speaker 4:But you have Thriller at three and don't have Off the Wall at all, you're Off the Wall. Or at three and don't have off the wall at all, you're off the wall. How about that? That's crazy. Joshua Tree by U2 is 49? That's crazy. That's a top 15 album, easy, easy. I'm going to make a top 100 list, one that makes sense, that white and black people can understand and say you want to know it, that nigga knows what he's talking about. And the black people and the white people will say it's just. The white people say when they're at home and nobody's around and they're watching hip hop talk, but they're going to be like this, nigga knows what he's talking about like and subscribe.
Speaker 5:Like and subscribe.
Speaker 4:I'd like to thank Andrew for that. Yeah, Joshua Tree at 49 by U2 is wild. That is literally one of the best albums I've ever heard too. In a lot of ways it's I think Nirvana's Nevermind and Sgt Pepper's are better, but that might be the third best alternative album ever made, in my opinion. Maybe Joni Mitchell's Blue, but we're about to get to that.
Speaker 2:It has more legs, it does have more legs.
Speaker 4:Exodus by Bob Marley and the Wailers is 46? That's crazy. You must have been smoking with Bob Marley to have it at 46. How about that? Did you smoke with Bob? Did it affect your brain in a way that you put that album at 46? Inner.
Speaker 5:Visions by Stevie Wonder is 44. Oh, stevie got two on the list too. I forgot about.
Speaker 4:Stevie Inner Visions at 44. That's what I'm saying. The gap between Songs of the Key of Life and Intervisions ain't no goddamn 38 albums?
Speaker 2:Ain't no way.
Speaker 4:Ain't no 38 album difference between Intervisions and Songs of the Key of Life? That's what makes me feel like people cherry-picked on this list and didn't really gravitate towards the music. It's like you picked the music but you placed it to make everybody else happy. Fuck, but you placed it to make everybody else happy.
Speaker 5:Fuck, making everybody else happy, make the list right. I'm tripping, I don't have the whole list in front of me, I just got certain notes. Mariah Carey didn't get no placements on the list, did she she?
Speaker 4:doesn't deserve one. She doesn't have a top 100 album. Whitney didn't make the list either. She didn't.
Speaker 2:I thought.
Speaker 3:Whitney did the list.
Speaker 2:I think she made the list. Who Whitney For what? Mariah Mariah? I don't think so I think she made the list.
Speaker 5:See, I don't have the whole list in front of me. I was wondering about Whitney and Mariah, because I didn't remember seeing either one of them.
Speaker 4:Whitney's first album deserves more consideration than any of Mariah's albums.
Speaker 3:That's fair.
Speaker 4:I love Mariah. Emancipation to Me is a classic to me, but it's not. It's 100 all time. It's all the genres.
Speaker 3:You like that better than.
Speaker 4:Emotions, yeah, dark Side of the Moon by Pink Floyd at 28. That's crazy. That's crazy. Yeah. Kind of Blue by Miles Davis at 25. Really you think there are 24 albums better than Counting to Blue by Miles Davis, if we're talking about all genres.
Speaker 5:That's where it gets tricky. The all genres part.
Speaker 4:Revolver by the Beatles at 21. Even though it's at 21, it should probably be higher. Pet Sounds by Beach Boys this is probably the one that's making white people scream. A lot of American white males feel like Pet Sounds by the Beach Boys is the best album ever made. They have it at $20 on the list.
Speaker 3:Shut up, man Fuck that.
Speaker 2:Who said?
Speaker 4:it. They're going to have a purge about this shit, right? They're like okay, so here's what we're going to do. I feel like they're going to have a purge about this shit, right? They're like okay, so here's what we're going to do.
Speaker 5:I feel like they're more bored with it than the Beach Boys are bored with it.
Speaker 3:No, no, no Pet.
Speaker 4:Sounds is America's rock response to the Beatles. Yeah, no, it's serious. It's serious, you know. I think the most egregious thing that happened To an album on this list Is that you put what's Going On by Marvin Gaye at 17. Yeah, I think it is the most egregious Part of this list, because To put 16 albums Ahead of what's Going On is to say put 16 albums ahead of what's going on, is to say that you don't know what's going on, like musically, like it's just like that.
Speaker 5:It's like I don't know if there's five albums better than what's going on yeah, it's definitely, uh definitely in running for top five but top 10 and not being in the top 10 is egregious, but it's an easy it's crazy yes, you talk about picking the wrong albums. Do you think they picked the wrong album for janet? I do okay.
Speaker 4:So here's the thing about it rhythm nation and janet have just as many hits Control, but the songs are not as timeless as Control. Even if the songs are better, they're not as timeless. What have you done for me lately? It's timeless, control. Timeless. Let's Wait a While. Timeless Funny how Time Flies. Timeless, yeah. She's got her time. The timeless records are on Control. The records for the times are on the other albums. I think she has four classics.
Speaker 5:Velvet Rope is another classic.
Speaker 4:I feel like all the classics are weighted differently. How about this Control? You can play Control next to Purple Rain and Thriller as far as a hit parade. And it's no drop-off. It's throwing a party, pleasure Principle. It's no drop-off, pleasure Principle.
Speaker 3:Jamming on Principal Pleasure. Principal Janet on the chair. Yeah, jimmy.
Speaker 2:Jam and Terry. You got Jimmy Jam and Terry. You got Jimmy Jam and Terry. You can't go wrong with that.
Speaker 4:Classic yeah. So I don't know if they got it wrong. What I would tell you is that maybe should have been one of those albums included. Possibly Like for me, I would put Janet in there.
Speaker 5:Rhythm Nation had seven top five singles, people right, and I think that was at one point the most awful one album.
Speaker 4:I don't know if it still holds that record, but I think as far as like record sales and like, I think, as far as official billboard charts it does. Yeah, she did that. When was when? Was rhythm nation like fucking 89?
Speaker 5:89. Yeah, but I think that, uh, to your point, she might be one of the people that deserves two placements, like you know over.
Speaker 4:I can totally see that. I think Blue by Joni Mitchell at 16 is wrong too. I would tell you what. Like what's going on? Revolver and Joni Mitchell's Blue all need to be bumped up the list.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because they got Frank Ocean blondeonde, I think at 5 or 6 well, that brings me.
Speaker 4:I'm glad you're helping me segue, sean. Let's get to the albums that don't belong where they belong Beatles, abbey Road at number 3 and Frank Ocean's Blonde at number 5 that's crazy.
Speaker 5:I think Frank Ocean is the Andre 3000 effect, like where he's not releasing anything, so it's held up so high?
Speaker 4:It's his second album. It's his second album. It's better than his first album. Big fucking deal, not number five. Good kid Mad City.
Speaker 3:What did you?
Speaker 5:say Sean. Nah, I'm just saying I see like what they're doing and I know you know I could read between the lines or whatever. I'm not giving them any credit on it. I'm just reading between the lines of why they do that and why they hold certain things so high. Not saying I agree with them, but I see why they're doing it.
Speaker 4:Okay, so Good, kid Mad City at number seven, it's not a top ten rap album.
Speaker 5:How is it a top 10 album? Of all time hold on.
Speaker 4:Let me finish like see, because everybody thinks that I'm hating when I do this, so I'm going to try to do this as carefully as I can. Whoever the hip hop panelist was that sat in this room in these discussions I'm not blaming Kendrick for this. I think Good Kid Mad City is a classic. I think not blaming Kendrick for this. I think Good Kid Mad City is a classic. I think it deserves to be on this list. I truly do. It deserves to be on this list. It is one of the best 100 albums I've ever heard. Whoever allowed this album from the hip-hop community to be placed at number seven when they know that Illmatic Into the 36 Chambers are on this list? The Low End Theory is on this list. Get Rich or Die Trying and Doggy Style is on this list. That's the point that the hip-hop person in the room should have interceded and been like yo, I love that album and it's a classic, but we can't do that.
Speaker 4:That's not the accurate depiction of the hip-hop community.
Speaker 5:We know who that person is, though.
Speaker 4:No, I'm going to be nice.
Speaker 2:Y'all killing me tonight.
Speaker 3:Go ahead, sean, you know who he is too.
Speaker 4:He know who he is too. I'm not even going to say it, but he know what time it is. He knows the Get Rich or Die Tryin' is better than Good Kid Mad City. He knows that Doggy Style is better than Good Kid Mad City. He knows that Illmatic and Enter the Wu-Tang 36 Chambers and it Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us. Back by Public Enemy. He knows that Ready to Die is better too.
Speaker 5:Yeah and I don't even hold Ready to Die as high as most people, but it's better than Good. Kid Mad City. That's what I was saying earlier. It's not even a top 10 hip hop album of our own genre.
Speaker 4:The low end theory and the chronic are better as well, yeah.
Speaker 5:So when you're putting, it across all genres. How is it number seven? It deserves to be on the list, like you said, coop, but if it's not a top 10 within our own genre, then that's why I'm saying that they're tone deaf, because whoever's the hip hop representative in that room needs to say this is not a top 10 album within the hip hop culture. So how in the hell is it going to be a top 10 album across all cultures Makes zero sense. The math ain't math.
Speaker 4:Well, here's the thing about it, ag. This is exactly what has happened with this generation. Okay, so there used to be a time about 1999, 2000, where if you asked me what my top five rap albums were all time, I would tell you Ready to Die, reasonable Doubt, southern Playlist of Cadillac Music, illmatic and Only Built for Cuban Links. Solid five, it's a solid five. But guess what hadn't happened? First of all, some of those other albums hadn't aged yet. Like it's dark and hell is hot.
Speaker 4:The infamous I hadn't listened to stuff in the end multiple times like the greatest adventures of slick rick. Criminal minded paid in full. It takes a nation of millions to hold us back death certificate let the rhythm hit them america's most wanted straight out of compton. The biggest problem to hold us back Death Certificate Let the Rhythm Hit Him America's Most Wanted Straight Out of Compton. The biggest problem with this generation that I have with the way that they elevate Kendrick, is because every time I try to talk to this fan base about the classics that came before, they try to downgrade those classics.
Speaker 4:When I went back and listened to stuff I elevated because I realized what they were doing for the era. I hate to be the get off my lawn guy. The generation that loves Kendrick the way that they do. They don't know their rap shit like they should and that's why I don't trust them and that's why I argue with them, because I'm like, yeah, that's fine, but you're not the type of person like. If you were born in 1994 and Good Kid Mad City came out when you were about 14, 15, it had the same effect on you Illmatic had on me. No, I understand why, but do you understand why, fundamentally, illmatic is a better rap album.
Speaker 5:I don't think they do.
Speaker 4:And that's the problem with this generation. When it comes to their love for him, they're not fundamentally sound in the teachings of hip hop. That's our fault.
Speaker 5:A lot of that.
Speaker 4:They're not going back to do the knowledge though, to be honest, they're not like like the guy, like somebody told me that rock Kim's last two albums before the 18th letter Wasn't like that. I was like the album before don't sweat. The technique was let the rhythm hit them. Have you not heard? Let the Rhythm Hit.
Speaker 3:Him.
Speaker 4:It's literally one of the best mic performances ever recorded has in a top five all-time mic performance Easily. It's top three for me.
Speaker 5:But the fact that you don't know that Out of that four album run, the only one that wasn't up to par was Don't Sweat the Technique.
Speaker 4:That was the only one See't up to par was don't sweat the technique, that was the only one. But see, but that's the thing, it's the fact that they don't know that stuff I went back and studied that stuff and you're trying to argue with me and talk about kendrick. It's like no, I didn't say that he wasn't great. Do you know how great let the rhythm hit him is, though?
Speaker 5:like this is a tangent, but don't sweat. The technique is a great, but Don't Sweat. The Technique is a great album, but it's just. If you put it on its own merit, it's a great album, but it's because it came after all the classics, kind of like how people felt about Magic 2. Not saying that every album in the Hit-Boy run was a classic. If you put Magic 2 on its own, it's a great album, but it had to follow up magic 1 and kd3 and then so people didn't value it as much and I think don't sweat the technique.
Speaker 4:If you just as a standalone, it's a great album, but you know, look what came before it so good kid mad city is my biggest hip hop problem because it being placed at seven means somebody was comfortable walking away with it holding the number one position for rap albums. That it's not even close to. And if it is close and this is what I mean by close, or if you're talking about like the chronic versus good kid mad city, or we're talking about an album that's probably number seven or eight all time versus an album that is like 18, 19, 20 on a good day, yeah, it has it has a bid for top 20, but it's got a big.
Speaker 4:How about this? Good kid? Mad City is kind of where we talk about J Cole's placement in all time emcees. You know what I'm saying. That's a good point, but I'm pretty. First of all, I can name you 15 better. Yeah, that's a good point. Who can name you 15 better? Like, how about this? You think, good kid, mad City is better than Moment of Truth. You think it's better than Dark and Hell is Hot? Because I don't think it's better than it's Dark and Hell is Hot. I think that's wild if you think that.
Speaker 5:They're conversations? But I don't think so, but they're conversations.
Speaker 4:That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:The conversation weird, you the conversation weird. You think Good Kid Mad City better than Well, think about this.
Speaker 4:The Purple Tape and the Infamous didn't make this list. You think Good Kid Mad City better than the Purple Tape or the Infamous? Nobody who knows rap in and out thinks that, so that person in the room is who I'm going to hold accountable. Only about Good Kid Mad City, though.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that's the thing you shouldn't have got that album placed at number seven. Like you know what you were supposed to do, you let Good Kid Mad City get placed at number seven and you let Blueprint be the J album. That made it instead of Reasonable Doubt Foul on the play.
Speaker 5:All sides, but I don't think Reasonable Doubt should even be a blueprint. I don't think.
Speaker 4:Jay-Z has an album that should be ranked that high all across all genres? No, but, but if it was going to be your number two rap album, let it be Reasonable Doubt. It's more conversational to do that. It's like well, that is one of the best rap albums I've ever heard. You know what I?
Speaker 5:mean, this is not rap, but I wanted to ask you, Coop, what you thought the Amy Winehouse placement. I actually was surprised, but I like that because that's still one of the best albums I've ever heard. You know it might be ranked a little high, but I think that's a phenomenal album.
Speaker 4:How about this? What I think is appropriate for back to black. I'm like you too Big, big Amy Winehouse fan lover. Think back to black is one of the best albums I ever heard. How about this? If you swap out what's going on at 17, there you go. Yeah, put back the black by amy winehouse there and put him at eight. I'm way happier with this list because I feel like it's more appropriate. I think is one of the best albums I've ever heard, but I think it's closer to being one of the 20 best albums I ever heard, not 10. As opposed to what's going on, which I can, I can say with pretty much ease no, I have not heard 10 albums better than that album in my entire life.
Speaker 5:Yeah, that's a good swap out People forget.
Speaker 4:What's Going On is a concept album about a Vietnam veteran coming home from war and the things that he is seeing going on in America. People forget about that part. What's Going On is a concept album too. How many R&B artists make concept albums At a high level like that? It's the highest level concept album execution in music history actually.
Speaker 5:And really Illmatic should be where Kendrick is at number seven, if we're talking about across all genres, because it's widely regarded and we're not just being biased here on our podcast where we think Nas is the GOAT. It's widely regarded as the greatest rap album of all time. This is what.
Speaker 4:I would say it takes everything you just said on here, and I wouldn't put it at seven if I did have Illmatic on there, and Illmatic should be the first rap album named. In my opinion. Either that or it Takes a Nation of Millions. I would have it at nine or ten, I wouldn't even have it at seven.
Speaker 5:Well, that's fair, but it's still a top 10 and with that said so, you're not counting lauren at number one as a hip-hop album, just to be clear no okay I feel like that.
Speaker 4:I feel like that and brown sugar by d'angelo are probably the most important albums in terms of the um, the melding hip hop and the R&B culture into all the many phases of it we see today. So it's trendsetting, it's groundbreaking, she's epic. But no, and that's one of those albums too. It's like how about this? Let's go a step further. Even if you were to swap Marvin Gaye's what's Going On with Lauren and put him at one and put her at eight, I would be more okay with that too, cause I do find the miseducation to be a top 20 album. I would put it how about this? Give me Joni Mitchell's blue and what's going on by Marvin Gaye at at one and eight, maybe like Marvin at one and Joni at eight, and then give me Lauren and Amy at 16 and 17 and I think that's more appropriate and give me Sign of the Times instead of Good Kid, mad City, push Illmatic. You know what I'm saying. I would freak the list a little different, but I'm about to.
Speaker 5:I'm with all those changes. But with that said, and this question is to both of you you said you'd have Illmatic at 8 or 9. So are you saying in the top 10 across all genres, illmatic is the only hip hop album that you think cracks the top 10?
Speaker 4:because I think the Chronic, or Doggystyle, has a pretty strong bid for the top 10, just the musicality of the Chronic there are four rap albums that I feel like should be in the top 50, and that would be Doggystyle Paid in Full. It Takes a Nation and Illmatic because of the songs, the impact and the quality. All four of those albums have those things in different ways.
Speaker 5:I would say Cuban Link as well.
Speaker 4:Yeah, but but there, there there are some things with Cuban link because of the rhetoric it's never going to make that Like. I still think it's the second best rap album I've ever heard Maybe third, second or third at worst.
Speaker 5:It's second on my list. I only have a second deal.
Speaker 4:Yeah, me too. For the most part, it takes a nation of millions. I guess, as I get a little bit older and I look at some things a little bit differently than I used to and I don't do some of the things that I used to, I can look at the message that they're putting out on that album and I'm like, damn, they were trying to help us more than we realized. They were rapping to us and having a good time, but they were trying to help us too.
Speaker 2:I got a slide fellas good deal. Fellas good show. What's up. We may have to pull up again on this one and really break this one down and do our own list at some point. This you know, at the end of the day, in closing, this is a. This was a tough list to do for anybody, because you're combining so many different genres of music and you're trying to come up with a comprehensive list. So everybody's going to shoot through it, but just you can't put the rubric out there. Don't follow that own rubric. It just doesn't make any sense because now you're putting your own emotional appeal to it and there's no logic behind that emotion. But shout out to them for even making an attempt.
Speaker 5:I guess. I guess it gives them content to talk about.
Speaker 4:Let's do a hip-hop talks list. You know what I'm saying. I try not to like. This is what I mean. Back to the plagiarism thing. It's like well, this isn't plagiarizing because we're coming up with our own list. We're not taking somebody else's list and making it our own.
Speaker 5:Yeah, we definitely got to get Andrew in on that. Yeah, no, no, no.
Speaker 4:I would love a hip-hop talks list because Andrew's involved and he can help with the guidance of some of these things, even some of the things like the Rage Against the Machine album. It's like is that Rage's best album? It's like. I need to ask Andrew.
Speaker 4:Yeah, we may need to do that Let scenes and do some outtakes from it. Be like a round table for it. Yeah, yeah, no, no, no. We can do like a song, we can do like an album draft, where it's like we all come with our list and be like okay, this is where I have this, are you okay with this? Right here, it's like I am for now.
Speaker 2:Let's go Shit. Let's do that. We gotta do it soon, because they're going to jock our style, I know you like my style, Like how I break it down.
Speaker 4:I want to get rich. I show you how, yeah, that's better than Good Kid Mad City. Okay, got to go. Yeah, get rich is one of them ones. Yeah, get rich is special.
Speaker 2:Peace, fellas. Peace and love guys. No doubt, no doubt.