Can Nas' "Illmatic" ever be surpassed, or does Jay-Z's "Blueprint" hold the crown? Join us as we commemorate our 10th episode with a spirited discussion on hip-hop's greatest rappers and albums. We kick things off with some laughs over Memorial Day stories, including a hilarious "glizzy contest," before diving into the excitement of being back live. Shoutouts to AG and Coop for holding it down while we were away, and don’t miss Lowkey’s surprise drop-in from his favorite hookah spot. We also tease an upcoming series with Coop that's sure to thrill our listeners.
Our main event features a heated debate comparing hip-hop heavyweights Nas, Kendrick Lamar, and Jay-Z. From Nas's groundbreaking "Illmatic" to Kendrick’s genre-bending "To Pimp a Butterfly" and Jay-Z’s versatile "Blueprint," we passionately discuss which albums have left the deepest marks on the genre. We dissect their contributions through personal anecdotes and highlight the broader cultural context, weighing the subjective nature of musical preferences and the impact of these iconic works.
The conversation doesn't stop there. We critically examine Jay-Z's musical legacy, comparing his discography to artists like Drake and J. Cole, and differentiating between cultural hits and mainstream smashes. Our debate extends to Kendrick Lamar’s place in hip-hop history, the shifting tides of top rapper rankings, and the ongoing influence of Southern hip-hop classics. Wrapping up with our anniversary celebration, we express heartfelt gratitude to our listeners and tease future events and exclusive giveaways. Tune in, subscribe, and become part of the Hip-Hop Talks family!
Can Nas' "Illmatic" ever be surpassed, or does Jay-Z's "Blueprint" hold the crown? Join us as we commemorate our 10th episode with a spirited discussion on hip-hop's greatest rappers and albums. We kick things off with some laughs over Memorial Day stories, including a hilarious "glizzy contest," before diving into the excitement of being back live. Shoutouts to AG and Coop for holding it down while we were away, and don’t miss Lowkey’s surprise drop-in from his favorite hookah spot. We also tease an upcoming series with Coop that's sure to thrill our listeners.
Our main event features a heated debate comparing hip-hop heavyweights Nas, Kendrick Lamar, and Jay-Z. From Nas's groundbreaking "Illmatic" to Kendrick’s genre-bending "To Pimp a Butterfly" and Jay-Z’s versatile "Blueprint," we passionately discuss which albums have left the deepest marks on the genre. We dissect their contributions through personal anecdotes and highlight the broader cultural context, weighing the subjective nature of musical preferences and the impact of these iconic works.
The conversation doesn't stop there. We critically examine Jay-Z's musical legacy, comparing his discography to artists like Drake and J. Cole, and differentiating between cultural hits and mainstream smashes. Our debate extends to Kendrick Lamar’s place in hip-hop history, the shifting tides of top rapper rankings, and the ongoing influence of Southern hip-hop classics. Wrapping up with our anniversary celebration, we express heartfelt gratitude to our listeners and tease future events and exclusive giveaways. Tune in, subscribe, and become part of the Hip-Hop Talks family!
yo, yo what it do peace, peace, peace, peace. We are back. Give me one second to get everything clear. What's good homie?
Speaker 2:tell him, bro, how you been man man I'm finally made it home for it.
Speaker 1:Um, for a show man. I was on the road. What last three weeks had to do it from the hotel?
Speaker 2:So now.
Speaker 1:I'm back in the pad man.
Speaker 2:This is the first time in a while you ain't been tardy for a show.
Speaker 1:We did not discuss that man. We did not discuss that at all, bro. We just had a conversation behind the scenes. But we came on live to say, yo, let's have a good one, let's have a conversation, and you want to come out here throwing jabs, man.
Speaker 2:I can't help it sometimes, man, my fault, my fault.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry. I'm getting messages. How you feeling, bro? How's everything for you this week, man? Memorial Day was on Monday and you know kick off the week in West Virginia how you guys doing out there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, everything was good, man. More so relaxing the weekend you know what I'm saying from the weekly grind Didn't do nothing too crazy, but you know, just chilling listening to some good music getting ready for the show today.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay, did y'all do any festivities in West Virginia? Like, do y'all do anything for like you know, for stuff like this you know what I mean For anything For Memorial Day weekend? Do y'all do anything in West Virginia?
Speaker 2:I mean, I might be pulling up at your memorial next year and you keep talking.
Speaker 1:I'm just asking. I'm not asking for no violence, I'm just asking. I'm just saying do y'all do anything for Memorial Day weekend?
Speaker 2:See you talk about me and you come out throwing jams man, like that's crazy.
Speaker 1:I just asked. I'm sorry, I just asked.
Speaker 2:Shout out to Trife. Shout out to.
Speaker 1:Trife. What's good bro? What up Trife Boogie? I just asked, man, because I don't. You know I'm being, you know I did 20 years in the Marine Corps. I mean, memorial Day is one of those things people get confused, you know, I mean with Veterans Day, so I didn't know if you guys do stuff. One of my homeboys called me. He texted me. I'm sorry. He texted me like, oh, we about to put some Franks on the grill and have a contest. I'm like yo, y'all about to do a glizzy contest on Memorial Day. Like don't let me feel right anymore, boy, like don't even feel right anymore. Like I don't even know how to respond. I didn't respond to him on the text, I just shook my head. I'm like yo, they're about to do a glizzy contest. And he looked at me saying that's nasty.
Speaker 2:No glizzy contest over here.
Speaker 1:No, glizzy. No, I didn't even ask like what kind. I didn't even say yo, did you get the ball part? Did you get the ballpark? Did you get the, the BBR glitzy? I don't even want none of that, I don't want to even know. So I hope they have fun. I guess, boss, but yo, we back in the building man.
Speaker 1:Last week we didn't get a chance to do a live show. We actually did a pre-recording and we posted it. So I appreciate all of you who actually pulled up last week to rock with us. When I pre-record, you know we apologize. Hold on, I'll just get a message at the same time. We actually did a pre-record and we appreciate you all pulling up. We were actually in a chat during the pre-record show, just trying to connect with people, let them know. We all have different schedules and everything. This is my first time back at the crib in the past four weeks.
Speaker 1:Now. Shout out to AG, shout out to Coop for keeping the show going and everything like that Coop not going to be able to make it tonight. We actually did a show earlier today that we're going to drop tomorrow with Coop on there. We have a series here. It's going to be a pretty good series that we want to do for y'all, because this is our 10th episode. This is a milestone episode. We are way ahead of schedule and I'm feeling good about what we got going on for tonight. We got going on for the weekend for all of you with content. We have a whole bag of content that we wanted to like really share with the masses. Just things we were talking about behind the scenes and also everything that's going on in the news out there, in the hip-hop world as well. Um, so we want to just really dive into it. Man, let's talk about some new music, bro. Um, that that wu-tang, that wu-tang is coming up with the, the whole, uh, shaolin joint. Man, what are you feeling about that?
Speaker 2:uh, you know that's a crazy situation. You know that might be the most controversial album of all time and, um, you know, for the people you know, salute to the chat for pulling up. You know, glad to have y'all here at our 10th episode. Um, you know you want to break down a little quick history lesson on on that album for those who ain't privy to it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, real quick. I saw somebody hop in the back. That's Lowkey. We got Lowkey from Apple, Just hop in. Oh, what's up love.
Speaker 2:What's up bro?
Speaker 3:What's up bro?
Speaker 2:What's good love?
Speaker 3:Y'all can hear me how you feeling bro yes sir.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay, we're good what are we talking about you know, I heard I had to be here for about 20, 25 minutes. Give you some hell. You're at the hookah spot I see at the hookah spot.
Speaker 2:I've been running around all day bro no doubt, no doubt we talking about that Once Upon a Time and Shaolin album. You know what I'm saying. They look like they're going to preview some of the album in Tasmania Australia. You know, coming in June. They got like, I think, about a week or two week span, I think June 15th through the 24th. They're going to preview about a half an hour of the album in little private sessions where you can listen to little snippets throughout the album or whatever, and you got to pay to visit. It's at a museum. The museum is called the Museum of Old and New Art in Tasmania, Australia. What?
Speaker 3:you got to think about that, sean. I mean, listen that, that that's, that's hip-hop, you know it's history it's. It's bringing people into a time that people want to prove you to a part of. You know, you gotta, you know you gotta soak it in and just love how it's being presented or being represented. You know, for the world of hip-hop, like that's just ain't nothing bad to say about it yeah, it's.
Speaker 2:It's a lot of controversy surrounding that album.
Speaker 2:If we, you know, trace back to its origins, like because, um, how the album was even made, you know, if you watch the uh Wu-Tang documentary that came out on Showtime, how the album was even made was controversial.
Speaker 2:It was by Silver Rings, which is a Wu-Tang affiliate, very close affiliations with RZA. He hit up a lot of Klan members through a course of some years, did some cutting and pasting some verses and constructed his Wu album that he produced. It's, to my like, you know, cutting and pasting some verses and constructed his you know album that he produces, to my understanding, a double album. I think it's like 31 tracks, if I'm not mistaken, and they only pressed up one copy and the rest of the files were destroyed and you know it's a two disc CD copy and then they wanted to present it as a work of art. So it's, you know it has this encasing and it's has the two CDs in there. It was auctioned off in like I think it was 2015. It went to Martin Shkreli, the um, the uh pharmacist cat who was pretty infamous because he marked up I believe it was a cancer medication, something crazy like 5 000 percent, like markup um dude ended up. He bought it for two million in the auction the only existing copy. He ended up going to the, going to jail in 2018, but the feds had to seize a lot of his stuff. He had to forfeit a lot of stuff over to the feds and it was like millions of dollars worth of stuff and one of those things was, uh, the wu-tang album and then it ended up going back up uh, I don't know if it was an auction, but a private um in a private sale, like we don't know who the buyer or the owner is, but they bought it for an undisclosed amount in 2021. So that kind of brings it up to speed, like the lineage of the album.
Speaker 2:A lot of the Klan members themselves, you know, weren't really happy how the album was constructed or how it was sold. You know RZA being quoted to say that a lot of the money he got off of it has been given to charity because of what you know the he got off of. It has been given to charity because of what, um, you know the type of individual the pharmacist guy was. But, um, it's just a controversial album. But I'm interested in seeing um the reviews for the people who paid the money to you know go to this museum in australia what they think um about when they hear this album. It's been previewed online some before. I think he played some on a live at one point in time, but for the general public what I read, this was crazy.
Speaker 2:What RZA and Silver Rings decided upon when they auctioned it off was the album couldn't be released to the public for 88 years. That's a long time. That's a very long time. They landed on eight because you know eight flipped on the side as infinity and then it was eight original members of the clan before Master Killer and U-Guard became members. So it was a lot of significance in those numbers, but you know it's a lot of generations.
Speaker 2:Listen, man, hey them, let them figure that out I ain't that we could do right no, yeah, it's a couple generations they gonna be able to hear that we're gonna hear it, we're gonna know right and stream it and let them figure that out yeah, I'm not
Speaker 3:sure, and it and I'm sure it holds very, very, very dear to all the members of the Wu and just everybody affiliated with that conjunction of hip hop. So we got to let them figure that out. We got to let them untangle whatever that family situation is. Unfortunately it's been tossed around in the public and it's been auctioned off. I remember that album was actually in an episode of Billions. Billions is a show on Showtime. That album was referenced in a deal that another young lady was doing. That's how deep it goes, that's how extensive it gets In reality. We've got to let them take it. I don't even want to hear it, not because I don't think it's good, not because I think it's whack or whatever. That's something they hold dear to their heart. That's why these situations and issues and legalities have been happening. We've got to let them mend that and when the world is ready to hear it when we're entitled to hear it, then we'll hear it.
Speaker 3:So for now, let them do that.
Speaker 2:No, that's what you got, Sean.
Speaker 1:No, I agree, I don't want to hear it. I'm a big Wu fan. I'm probably one of the biggest Wu fans. You'll find out there. And because this doesn't feel right, because you know the clan is not even on board with this album, so it's going to be pieced together. It's like you're getting verses from everybody and you're putting it on one pot. They're not even together. They don't even know who's on what. They don't even know what they're rapping to. They were just bringing verses out to a potential concept and that concept has changed over the time, before this album even got produced. So I'm not looking forward to it. I understood where RZA was coming from. That's highly ambitious when it comes to doing something like that, but not for this man, not for the Klan. The Klan is part of the best group of all time, the greatest group of all time. You don't do that to the Klan.
Speaker 3:You don't do that to the clan, you don't do that to them and you don't do that to their legacy.
Speaker 1:Not at all.
Speaker 3:Not at all.
Speaker 1:Not for their legacy.
Speaker 2:We got some people out in Australia, though Double Barrel shout out to him, he out in Australia. So you know, if he happened to swing by there and see what it do, then maybe we could have him on here and he can talk about it.
Speaker 3:No doubt. If that's the case, then that's the case. I want it done, the right way for them. Absolutely. That contributed so much to their pop, changed their top, shifted their pop. They don't need to go out like this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Absolutely Check it Low. Being here, I know you're on here on the side of the crunch, Yo AG. I want to pivot real quick, because we do have Low here and we got one of the things that we want Low to argue about First of all, shout out to my man, Corey, for giving me the headphones.
Speaker 3:No doubt, shout out to Corey.
Speaker 1:Yeah, shout out to my nigga Corey. Yes, sir, yes, sir, yo AG, I want to pivot real quick. Yeah, no doubt Like the truth, while we are here today, because we're doing a series, this is our fifth episode, so we want it to be like a triple album, cd type of feel Cooper and I did something earlier today we want to release tomorrow, but we want to talk about the elephant that's seen a room for the past several weeks, something that you guys and Apple and Ebro shout out to Ebro. He's been taking a lot of. He's holding up, he's holding up People get it Always does.
Speaker 1:But he's one of the few that Nas even rocked with, based on the fact that he's kept it funky. He's kept it real and that's his opinion. It's his opinion. So we wanted to do an offspring to some of that by talking about this first part of our series the greatest rappers versus the greatest albums and we wanted to focus a lot on Nas, k-dot and Jay. Okay, because you are a Hovenger, you might be the first Hovenger before Hovengers became a thing, yeah, so we definitely Don't be like that, don't be like that we're going to raise your blood pressure a little bit because we want to talk about.
Speaker 1:I'm here for it, let's go, let's get to it.
Speaker 3:Let's get to it because we want to talk about it.
Speaker 1:I'm here for it. Let's go, let's get to it. So I want to start with you, ag, to be quite honest, because I know you're a K-Dot fan as well and we talked about you, know you share your thoughts on K-Dot's best three albums and how this is going to work. I want to get your thoughts and opinions as well. But let's just have a workshop, talk man, let's talk about these guys' catalog and let's bring others into the fold as well, ag, what you think about in comparison to the catalogs from Dave Nas and K-Dot and just anyone else. But let's start with that three right there for right now.
Speaker 2:I think that K-Dot has a stellar catalog, although the breadth of it is not as much as some of the legends in the game, like Jay-Z and Nas, right, but he had put out quality material at a high clip early in his career. And you can argue about Mr Morale being the fall-off, but, like I said, you know Jay and Nas got fall-off albums as well. But you know, I think, um, you look confused, love out the gate already. They, they both, do we get?
Speaker 2:I'm listening I'm listening we, we got to be honest about some of them albums. But the thing, the thing about um, you know, kdot's albums, I think they're a little bit. Oh, they're great, they're classics, but I think because of the time they're a little bit overstated because of the field. You know what I mean and you know he's standing out in a field that's very watered down, so to speak. You know what I mean. So a lot of his albums are going to get catapulted to a to a different level. You know, whereas when jay and nas were putting out their classics, it was a lot of classics to be handed out all around. You know from other counterparts, you know.
Speaker 2:So me and sean had a conversation behind the scenes based on soloist, uh, solo rap artist classic album and, and you know I'm a firm believer in all classics ain't created equal right. So you know, just parsing it out, we was like talking about, you know, people's discography but what would you say are their first I'm sorry, their best three albums within their discography. And we got to talking about the. You know, for Nas, you got Illmatic and it Was Written and Stillmatic. And we got to talking about the. You know, for naz, you got illmatic and, uh, it was written in still matic. And then for kdot evidently you have good kid mad city to pimple butterfly and damn. And then for jay, you got reasonable doubt blueprint, but blackout, those three stand out. What would be your third love.
Speaker 3:It's Reasonable Doubt. Volume 1, blueprint. You said Volume 1?.
Speaker 2:I think, be it objective. That's a personal choice, but you know that the masses will put.
Speaker 3:Black out, but see, but see. Now, all of this, all of this is very subjective, right? Yeah, if you're asking me what sold the most, then we can have that conversation. If right, yeah, you're at. If you're asking me what sold the most, then we can have that conversation. If you're asking me what album got the most accolades, then we can have that conversation. No one's gonna agree with jay's three or drake's three or not.
Speaker 3:Like all this is very, very subjective, right it is where you at, in that time of life, when that album came out, what did it do for you, what was the impact that it had on your favorite artists, or whatever the case is. We're never going to agree on those three things, that, for all those artists that we love and we champion.
Speaker 2:It's subjective but there could be a consensus right. You know what I mean Because we know what the masses say. If subjective but there could be a consensus right. You know what I mean because we know what the masses say. Like if it was supposed to be a poll on all socials or whatever, we know how the top three would probably shake out right. And just to help you out a little bit, you better serve putting black album in there than volume one. Anyway, I love volume one myself, but if we're having this conversation, I I think Black Album is better served in that conversation.
Speaker 3:No, you don't think For me, for me, for me, for me. I can't speak for y'all, I can't speak for the masses, I can't speak for the whole binges For me.
Speaker 2:You're not the spokesperson. You're not you the one?
Speaker 3:Okay. Well, if I am the one I'm telling you, go fucking listen to fucking volume one. If y'all gonna crown me, go listen to fucking volume one.
Speaker 2:What was the commercial? I'm not only a client, I'm the whole binger president.
Speaker 3:If you're asking me, I'm telling you go and listen to fucking Volume 1.
Speaker 2:No, I love Volume 1. Volume 1 would be number four on my list, but Jack and I'm not mad at it yeah, that would be number four.
Speaker 1:Yeah, would you put Volume 1 over Kendrick's top three? How would you rank Volume 1? If Volume 1 is number two in Jay's catalog, where would you place that amongst Kendrick's catalog?
Speaker 2:And that's yeah. You're getting to the exact point. If we're placing all these albums in order with each other, where would Kendrick's albums land? And for me, with Jay and Nas in the fold, other than Good Kid Mad City maybe, damn it to Pimple Butterflies under all of Nas and Jay's classics, in my opinion, Not mad at that, but understand the climate, understand the consumer environment, understand the trajectory of where hip-hop was when they made those and when these guys made these.
Speaker 3:The ears and the eyes and the trajectory of hip-hop is way different. There are guys that help make those albums, help create those albums. Then there's guys that help make that make those albums, help create those albums. Then there's guys on this side that help make those albums like they're. They're looking at hip-hop in a different way.
Speaker 2:They're looking at hip-hop in a different way, so you can't even really do that well, even though the soundscape, even though the soundscape changes and times change, the impact of a album that's classic is timeless, and all these albums that we're discussing has had major impact in all the different ways. Who are?
Speaker 3:you talking to? Who are you asking? A Drake fan is not going to look at a Volume 1 the same way and a Jay fan is not going to look at a Take Care of your Soul for Gone the same way and a J fan is not going to look at a Take Care or Soul4Gone the same way. And it doesn't mean either or is left-handed or right-handed. When you ask somebody, you have to understand where, where they come from, where, what was, what was their trajectory? What was their perception of hip-hop? What was their perception of that artist? You've got to understand that. I'm not expecting a nigga that loves to take care to understand what the fuck romantic was and vice versa. But it doesn't mean. Neither one of them are great. They're great in their own right.
Speaker 2:They're great in their own era.
Speaker 3:They're great in their own environment. We've got to stop trying to like well.
Speaker 2:That's the diplomatic Apple answer.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I can sit here and tell you I like Volume 1 better than I like Nothing but the Same.
Speaker 1:I can tell you that.
Speaker 3:I can tell you that I like Jeezy's TM-101, that I like harder too. It's just like that's me.
Speaker 2:Right, and that's where we're getting at. We can rank them. I mean, it's not, you know, unpolitically correct to rank them, because it came from different eras, because you know the platform Apple you know, like you said, yeah, but is it fair? Well, I mean, Apple just put out a list of 100 albums. That wasn't even the same genres from different eras.
Speaker 3:But, alright, that's every genre of music in 100, right, so that was their opinion. They made those choices, which I don't agree with a lot of them. Alright, cool, that's just what it is. There's no law. If we're talking numbers, if we're talking metrics, if we're talking accolades, then we can have a solidified conversation. Nothing can be debated, nothing can be refuted, none of that. You're talking to people that, okay, yo, they had to drop. Everyone that voted had to drop 25 albums of their favorites. They had to drop 25 albums and then they went to pot and they figured it out based on storytelling and production and lyrical composition and all the other stuff. Right, we are not law, you ain't law, you ain't law, I ain't law. Right, it's what I like, it's what I experience, it's what's impactful, it's what lasted long for me, for them, ok, so it's just that's what it is. And we have to stop saying, well, nah, take care of this.
Speaker 2:Reasonable doubt is adding We've got to stop that, based on your preference, why we have you here, what are your top solo albums or who has the top solo discography for you and why Jay.
Speaker 3:Jay Jay and Michael Jackson.
Speaker 2:Okay, you want to expound on the Jay and his classics.
Speaker 3:Reasonable doubtbt Volume One.
Speaker 2:Blueprint.
Speaker 3:American Gangster 444. Those are my picks. Those are my picks. Some might say Black Ops, some might say Volume Two, some might say whatever the case is, those are the ones that I connect to and I go back to every fucking day, Every day, Every day I'm going back to one of those albums running straight through Michael Jackson Off the Wall, Thriller, Bad Boom. Running straight through, straight through, straight through Lauryn Hill One Miseducation of Lauryn Hill.
Speaker 2:Alright so you got your three to five top through straight through, straight through Lauryn Hill. One Miss Education, lauryn Hill. Okay, all right. So you got your three to five top joints for Jay. So how would you compare that to Anaz's top three to five or Kendrick's top three to five, or Ice Cube or Ghostface? That's kind of what we're getting at.
Speaker 3:I mean, what am I looking at? What am I looking for? What am I looking for, what am I comparing to? Because all the artists you just named are so fucking different.
Speaker 2:Whatever metric you want to go by.
Speaker 3:If we're going by lyricism, club songs, production, jay is top notch. But if we're going by like bars and this, that and the third, ghostface got that, ice got that, naz got that, you know I'm saying so. It's like it always just depends on who you're talking to. But I love them individually for for different reasons. I think me personally, jay is the more well-rounded artist out of all of them. But I do think Ghost can borrow a hold. I do think Nas can borrow a hold, but when it comes down to it, jay is going to give you a record. Nas is not really going to give you a record. Ghost is not going to give you a record. Jay is going to give you a record. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:Do you have reasonable doubt over Illmatic no?
Speaker 3:yes, to me, to me, to me, to me, to me don't.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, disclaimer, disclaimer to me. No, I get it, I get it.
Speaker 3:Illmatic is a pillar in hip hop, I get it. It's a pillar in music, I get it. For me, I get it. I don't want. And if you, if y'all said Illmatic over, I'm not going to look at y'all funny, I'm like all right, I get it.
Speaker 1:Listen, I get it, I get it. Chat, don't go crazy on me, I get it Listen. Coop and I had this conversation earlier today and we were talking about because Coop had made a comment to me. He was like yo, I think Jay is a better lyricist than Big and I asked myself on what planet is he better than Big as being a lyricist? And we had a conversation about that and we both came to the agreement that Jay is more easy to follow, so it's making it easier to listen for the fans, Because Jay's taking your hand and walking you down when he says your hope doesn't end, so hopefully you have to go through that. He's telling you conversational J is top tier J, but when you listen to someone like Nas and you're talking about the intricacies of every line that he's writing, you have to go back and rewind because you have to listen to what he's saying. You have to piece it together like a puzzle.
Speaker 3:And not even that, not the patrol. He made that in what 19?
Speaker 1:Yeah, because when Illmatic came out in 94. That's insane. That's insane. No, no, absolutely that's what I'm saying. When Illmatic came out in 94, I was 14. I didn't catch it. I'm being honest, I'm Queens, get the money all day. I'm Corona Queens, get the money all day. When it was written came out, I caught it. I went back at the age of 16 to appreciate Illmatic and said this is the greatest rapper of all time. Because now, because he was so intricate in his thought process at 15, 16, it made sense to me after that. It made sense to me after that. But then I always felt that Blueprint to me was Jay's best album, because it's the most easiest listening album to me in hip hop and I'm not mad at that you can follow it.
Speaker 1:You don't have to bust your brain to follow Blueprint. I'm not saying it as a jab to Jay, lyrically that might be his 5th or 6 like that Lyrically.
Speaker 2:That might be his fifth or sixth best album lyrically, but it's the Sonics. It's the Sonics.
Speaker 1:He said a lot in Blueprint and Blueprint he's sticking his chest out. He's saying I'm the one I'm. That Blueprint is like the basses are loaded because you got reasonable doubt. Volume one, volume two, dynasty blueprint is I'm at the back, I'm about to hit a home run, grand slam. Bring everybody in. That will blueprint represented to me back in 2001, at the age of 21, you know I mean that's why I was thought that blueprint and then you look at the environment of where blueprint when it arrived and what was going on just in the world.
Speaker 3:Yeah, right, 9-11. Yeah, okay, then you're dealing with 9. Right, then you're introducing the world to Adjust Blades. You're introducing the world to Kanye West, you know Bink, you know Timbaland's on there, pharrell's on there. You're introducing the world to, not us, because we know who these niggas are. But it's so many factors in Blueprint that just makes it like, oh, I don't, it was a perfect storm. And you did eight to nine records in a weekend. Yeah, in a weekend. You did eight to nine records in a weekend. Yeah, in a weekend. You did eight to nine of those records of your best album in three days. Yeah, that's nasty.
Speaker 1:Yeah, not taking away from him.
Speaker 3:But I get your point how easy and digestible it is to sit there with that. Yeah, is that?
Speaker 1:digestible. Every song was calculated the way he wanted to calculate those songs Because again, you had the sonics. The sonics didn't overpower the music. The lyrics didn't overpower the sonics.
Speaker 3:Everything married, everything married. There you go. The lyrics overpowered the sonics. Everything married there you go 2001 was a very good year for him.
Speaker 2:Blueprint was the perfect marriage perfect marriage to my point with the lyrics. You could say Reasonable Doubt's better. Of course Reasonable Doubt's better lyrically Volume 1 is, you could say American Gangster is. You could say the Black Album is as far as his level of rapping. So that will put Blueprint lyrically at around his fifth best, just far as spitting. But it was the marriage that you just said, lowe, that the marriage of the sonics and the rhymes that catapulted to the album to legendary status. And you know a lot of people. I think his fan base is pretty split status. And you know a lot of people. Yeah, I think his fan base is pretty split. I don't think reasonable doubt is far and away his best album. Amongst jay-z's main fan base who consider him to go it. I think it's about 50 50.
Speaker 3:Some consider blueprint and some consider reasonable doubt when when, when we have this conversation and we're talking about sonically, I can can then say, yeah, I can understand why the blueprint is held at one or two, because it, sonically, was married to the perfect precision. So I can understand.
Speaker 1:I felt like Blueprint. He figured it out Because Volume 3, in my opinion, volume 3 was a miss. It was a dud. It was a dud In real time, in real time, it was live, in real time. I won't call it a miss, it was a dud. It was a dud In real time, in real time, it was live.
Speaker 3:In real time.
Speaker 1:Dud, I want to call it dud.
Speaker 3:Magna Carta, holy Grail to me, was a dud that, and Magna Carta and Kingdom Come I prefer Kingdom Come over Volume 3, but that might just be me. I agree with you. I prefer Kingdom Come over Magna Carta.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I prefer, yeah, I prefer, I think.
Speaker 2:Manicard is worse, easily To me.
Speaker 3:Manicard is. To me, Manicard is worse and the fact that it's not bad compared to other artists it's bad compared to him.
Speaker 2:When you're great, you're only comparing to yourself most of the time. No Manicard is bad compared to him. When you're great, you're only comparing to yourself most of the time.
Speaker 1:That's it.
Speaker 3:No, magna Carter's bad compared to everybody, magna Carter's pretty bad Magna Carter's better than a lot of niggas out there.
Speaker 2:Here's the thing about Magna Carter, though, is because it doesn't have any memorable hits from it, because even when Jay-Z did a subpar album the few times he's done that we still had hits to take from it. You know what?
Speaker 3:I mean, I mean, fuck with me. I got it with Ross Tough.
Speaker 2:I mean it's tough, but it wasn't a hit by his standards.
Speaker 1:Ross kind of hit it.
Speaker 3:If we're going to be very honest, jay, don't have a lot of hits.
Speaker 2:He does. Jay, don't have a lot of hits.
Speaker 3:Jay don't have a lot of hits. Jay does not have a lot of hits.
Speaker 2:I think that goes to the conversation of hit versus smash. Jay don't have a lot of smash hits, but he has a lot of hits, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1:Jay has moves, all right.
Speaker 3:Big Pimpin'.
Speaker 2:Big Pimpin's a hit. Give it To Me's a hit. The New York Empire State of Mind's a hit.
Speaker 3:That's his only number one hit also.
Speaker 2:Does it have to be number one to be classified as a hit?
Speaker 3:No, it doesn't. But if we're talking hits, when we if we're talking hits, we're talking when we talk about Jay's hits, we're talking about cultural.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they're not like Drake level. They're not like Drake level hits no, that's what I'm saying, he got Hard Knock Light and then that was a hit. And then he got what's another one we could throw in there. I hate the song, but 03 Bonnie and Clyde was a hit. It was a big hit.
Speaker 3:Was it.
Speaker 2:It was.
Speaker 3:Was it.
Speaker 2:It was a hit. Run this Town was a hit. That's another one. Blueprint 3 had a few of those on there.
Speaker 1:Not on Blueprint 3. It was a moment.
Speaker 3:Blueprint 3 had Empire.
Speaker 2:State of.
Speaker 3:Mind. That was his first number one hit after 13 years of losing albums.
Speaker 2:But I mean number one doesn't determine if something's a hit or not. It don't have to be number one to be a hit.
Speaker 3:Okay, but then Drake got what? 13 of them right, yeah, and a bunch of those records that are number one hits from Drake are ass Well for instance Cole didn't
Speaker 2:have a number one hit until First Person Shooter with Drake. But would you discount Love Yours and songs like that and say they're not hits.
Speaker 3:See, I'm not discounting the quality of the record. I'm not discounting what the record did and how I love the record or how we love the record. I'm not discounting the quality of the record. I'm not discounting what the record did and how I love the record or how we love the record. I'm not discounting none of that. I'm talking about that motherfuckers that don't love the Coles and the Drakes and the Jays and how we love them. I'm saying okay, the world.
Speaker 2:To me, that's the difference between a smash and a hit. You know what I'm saying? No, that's a cultural.
Speaker 3:Thing.
Speaker 2:Right, that's a cultural thing. You mean hits within the culture versus all-encompassing hits.
Speaker 1:Yes, Jay's hits are associated with something else. Yeah, that's fair Now. He got smashes all over the place he got smashes out the ass.
Speaker 2:That's crazy, yo that's wild.
Speaker 1:That's wild, he's wild, he got very animated when he said it too. He got smashes. He was shaking his head. That is wild yo Yo and said it to me. He just started shaking his head. I got surprised.
Speaker 2:That is wild yo. I was like I thought I was going to have to log off.
Speaker 3:Don't try to get y'all, don't try to catch me.
Speaker 1:You got animated. You start shaking your head like this.
Speaker 3:I'm like yo no, but you understand. To Drake's point. Drake got hits, yes, drake got hits. Yes, drake got hits. Yes, boom, boom, boom. We can point that's his hit factory. It's a hit factory, jay, to me, and I'm the biggest. Y'all know, I'm the biggest Jay. Jay wasn't a hit factory no no. Ja Rule, Ja Rule yeah, a hit factory. No, no, jay was a hit factory, but Jay was a consistent factory.
Speaker 1:Yes, and that's a great point, because now we're talking about consistency. Jay's consistency is what put him in those conversations. It's not necessary.
Speaker 1:Jay's consistency is bar none Bar none, because he knew how to pick the right lead-off song. Jay's lead-off song and his ending song for an album carried over into the next album when he was dropping albums every year. If you think about everything that went from volume one to volume two to volume three the Dynasty there was carryover. They carry over into each year. So it was looking like it was dropping nothing but hits or bangers year after year. Forget the album.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but the album still carried.
Speaker 2:That's the premise of his whole song. Every Day, a Star is Born. He's speaking to his consistency, you know. He's talking about all the people that you know, came and you know or had. You know, uh, flash like flash in the pan, lightning. You know super hot careers, but they came and went, you know. And he's speaking to his consistency through all these different, you know, eras of rap.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, yeah, of course, so with that said, lorde, do you feel that, because Jay was able to ride a specific wave at the highest clip, that kept him relevant in that particular era, but it also allowed him to transcend? Through the times when hip hop was going through different changes, jay learned how to adapt.
Speaker 3:Jay learned how to involve himself, which I think Drake is very good at.
Speaker 2:They're chameleons.
Speaker 3:both of them they're chameleons, you took the words right out of my mouth. Jay knew what producers, what artists, songwriters, this, that, and the third. Jay just knew, like forward thinking, like the thing I think, that are synonymous with Jay and Drake. They know. Okay, I see this comment, I see that coming, let me get next to, let me adapt with, or let me stay the fuck out the way, because that ain't my bad.
Speaker 1:Perfect, that's a perfect way of saying it. So let me ask you this If we're saying that Jay and Drake does it at a high clip, why do we love Kendrick so much when him and Nas they have a similar way of approaching the business as well? Because they're the dichotomy to what Jay and Drake does. Right, but we are bashing Drake at this point. Everybody's against Drake at this point, Everyone. I think his mother's against him right now. I think she was playing out, like us too, at the house. He rolled up on her. If you think about everything that Jay was doing during the current of hip-hop the Rough Riders era, the Murder Inc era, all of those things he was riding that wave, whereas Nas went pretty much left. He went left field. Nostradamus went left field. Even IM was left field. The Even IM, Nas, the concept of IM was told in left field from what was going on in the 80s and 90s.
Speaker 3:Nas and Kendrick are very similar because they moved to the beat of their own drum, no matter what. Kendrick could be a Drake if he wanted to. Nas could have been a Hov if he wanted to. That's just not their repertoire. That's not their talent, that's not their art. But you need that, you need that balance. You need the Nas, you need the Kendrick, you need the Jay and you need the Drake.
Speaker 2:But let's not get it twisted though.
Speaker 3:The beautiful thing about both of all the four of them that we're comparing they can do both. Both of them can do everything they choose. I'm over here, I'm good. I'm good over here, I'm good, but I can come over there and fuck your shit up too right, and they all proven that and this is the thing. The perfect example is Kendrick saying oh yeah, I can come over there and fuck your shit up. What he just did.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he made a hit record, a banger that would be in Drake's wheelhouse. You know, now that's the hottest song in the country. But let's not get it twisted though. You know, kendrick is a megastar. You know what I'm saying. Maybe not, his star is not as bright as a Drake per se, but he's a star. And then, you know, same thing with Nas. People act like Nas was like an underground rapper at one point, but like Nas from his second album.
Speaker 3:I can make them hits for it. Let's not get it twisted. Nas can make them hits. Nas in his day was a major superstar a lot of fans don't know.
Speaker 2:Nas sold over 20 million records in the US and over 35 million records worldwide.
Speaker 3:Nas is a superstar he's an anomaly what he said underground and overground has never been seen.
Speaker 2:You know he didn't care.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he didn't write because he technically came under the Rakim Coogee rap cloth, right Correct. As much as we love and we support and we represent Rakim, rakim was never a megastar, no, or superstar, and that's especially speaking. I'm talking about through the ages. No, no, no, but that's speaking. I'm talking about through the ages.
Speaker 3:I'm talking about no, no, no. But that's where the comparison comes in with Jay and Nas. The guy that came was that nigga, that guy. Right, right but then, here comes Rakim.
Speaker 3:Rakim is like nah, nigga, I'm out the mud. That's what Nas was. You know what I'm saying. But you need both. You need the balance. You need to understand. Like, okay, I'm going to sit over there with Big Daddy Kane and I'm going to sit over here with Rakim. Okay, then I'm going to sit over here with Jay, or I'm going to sit over here with Nas. I'm going to sit over here with Drake. I'm going to sit over here with Kendrick. That's what this is about.
Speaker 2:It's a different approach, like Sean was saying, when Jay's looking for the next wave to kind of lengthen his career, so I can ride this wave, so I can keep being relevant throughout the years, whereas Nas, his approach is y'all want me to zig, but I'm going to zag because I'm going to stand on my artistic capabilities and nothing is wrong with that, bro.
Speaker 3:I know I know steve stout has said you know I would try to get naz. You know sprite deals and brand deals and this, that and the third. And I was like I, I know, no, I ain't, I ain't doing that. But here comes jay with the armadale and the Reebok and the fucking, you know the Rockaware, this, that. And the third. Jay was a little bit more business-minded, which is not a problem, because you know Jay understood what this was and what that was. Nas is now showing us what it is later on in his career. You know the Bevel shit, the, I think, the crypto shit Like now we're seeing, now like the tech shit. Nas is now like the crypto shit, now we're seeing the tech shit. We're like oh shit, what do you mean?
Speaker 2:Nobody thought he had that in his bag.
Speaker 3:And then coming back and dropping three albums or, I'm sorry, six albums in what? Three years? Yeah, don't forget, I do this. Don't forget, I do this. Yes, I do this.
Speaker 2:And shout out to somebody in the chat. He mentioned that LL was a superstar during the Kane and Rod Kim era. Ll was the major superstar of all those rappers. So yes, that would be correct.
Speaker 1:Rod wasn't the marketable guy. Because the marketable guy? Because the marketable guy had to have that smile, he had to have that charisma, he had to have that approachability. Rob was not the approachable guy. L had that. I'm bad.
Speaker 3:I'm bad, I got my shirt off. I need love. You're breeding the Ja Rules. You're breeding the Nellies. You're breeding the Ja Rules. You're breeding the Nellies.
Speaker 2:You're breeding the Drakes. You're breeding these niggas.
Speaker 3:You birthed these niggas.
Speaker 2:I'm glad you're giving them that credit, because many people don't do that and they should.
Speaker 3:He should be discussed more. You don't get none of these niggas without.
Speaker 1:He's their forefather, he's the one, he's one of the trees, he's not a branch, he's a tree and the nigga's a rapper.
Speaker 1:And he would eat you up. If you were not careful on a good joint Body bag, he would get you Body bag. So, Lord, does that change the perspective of how we are viewing Kendrick at this point, Because we just made a lot of great points on both Jay Nas and their trajectory when they came up. Does that change everything for Kendrick? Because now the question at this point, based on what everyone is saying, they're trying to put Kendrick in that top three, maybe top five of the pantheon of rappers. Where will Lowe place Kendrick today? Where will you place Kendrick today?
Speaker 3:I'm putting him. This is a surprise. This is going to start my week off or end my week, whatever. I don't give a fuck, I'm just punching bag. Kendrick is placing himself in a very, very high ranking position of what hip-hop, lyricism, competition, bodies of work is what we want to see from our forefathers. Right, kendrick is going to be a forefather, moving both the bodies of work, the representation, the risks, the revealing of experiences, the making of hits, the going toe-to-toe with the guy who y'all know as Drake.
Speaker 3:That's what you're supposed to fucking do, and you can fucking rap and you can make a hit record and you can make classical and the world can recognize you and other genres know who you are and other genres respect you. You are, you are becoming, if not already, that say, drake is not that guy because he is, but but kendrick is becoming that guy, if not that guy in front of our very eyes. You can be, free. You can but to have a number seven album and I get it. It's subjective.
Speaker 2:Whatever the case, is.
Speaker 3:It's not through that noise for your first official album to be ranked number seven, top 100 album of all time. There's something to be ranked number seven as the top 100,000 of all time. There's something to be said about who that man is as an artist. This is a rapper as an artist, and I can't dispute and this is just me, speaking from my experience, my, you know just him, me and watching, listening, you know, observing him. That's just me. He has proven, he's and he's going to continue to prove that, yeah, I'm that nigga and I'm not even. I'm far from done, I'm far from that. There's the greats, there's the snoops that acknowledge you. There's the J's that acknowledge you. There's the Q's that acknowledge you. There's the Hobes that acknowledge you. They are the guys that we look and love and respect, that acknowledge you and say yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:But where do you personally place him currently in real?
Speaker 3:time Probably around five or six.
Speaker 1:Oh shit, Let me get the super chat real quick. Mad Max said Dot not even top 30. Stop it, Gizmo has Dot. You got him top five or six.
Speaker 3:That sounds. That's cool. I'm not aiming at that. My opinion ain't wrong. That's your opinion. My opinion ain't wrong.
Speaker 2:I got him at my number 10 spot in my top 10 after this All right, and it's probably going to climb as the years grow.
Speaker 3:It's probably going to climb.
Speaker 2:It has potential. It has potential.
Speaker 3:That's my entire point, right there. Say it again.
Speaker 2:It has potential, because his career is not done.
Speaker 3:That's it. That's it Because if it wasn't this detrimental, we wouldn't blink twice.
Speaker 2:This nigga him. I think the difference is now he's entered into this rare space where he's hip-hop's the culture's representative or mascot, because a lot of people felt like Drake is the antithesis of that and he kind of crept into Drake's you know what I'm saying fan base and wheelhouse with the hits. So he's occupied.
Speaker 3:Two different spaces. So I done gave you a therapy album. Then I came back and gave you a number one fucking smash hit. So you telling me, I ain't that nigga.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he's occupying the right space right now.
Speaker 3:You telling me I ain't that nigga.
Speaker 2:Where do you got him on your list, Sean?
Speaker 3:Because I know we've had this talk behind the scenes.
Speaker 1:Mad Max says Dot is the new Eminem 15 years from now. Watch, I don't disagree with that. I don't have him in the top five for certain, not even close. I don't even know if I could put Dot in top 10 personally. Personally, I think that at the end of his run maybe he can crack that top 10. I got him close to the 15th mark Because I feel like we've seen this before. We said this when Wayne was on his run. We said Wayne was top three, dead or alive. Some people even called Wayne the GOAT. At one point we saw Wayne had a his run. We said Wayne was top three, dead or alive. Some people even called Wayne the goat. At one point we saw Wayne had a magnificent run. I was none of those people. He had a massive album when he had the whole. What was the album?
Speaker 3:I think it was the.
Speaker 2:Carter volume two, part two of it like that.
Speaker 3:I'm sorry. Three. Carter three was the biggest album. Carter three was the biggest album.
Speaker 1:He was out of here and we were saying Wayne is the GOAT, and now we're not saying that too much more. You know what I'm saying? We're not saying we don't hear Wayne named that many more times since he started releasing it after that.
Speaker 3:Let me ask you a question has Kendrick called himself the greatest of all time? He is yes he is?
Speaker 2:Has Kendrick called himself the greatest?
Speaker 3:of all time. He is, he is, has he? Yes, he has, because TI called himself the king of the south. All right, cool. J called himself the best rapper alive. J has said that plenty of times. Who else Ross? Called himself the greatest boss or whatever the case is. Kendrick has never to me, from what I'm hearing.
Speaker 2:I mean you gotta read between the lines. We put out a hip-hop bar seminar. His second verse from Phil and he's basically you gotta read between the lines he was like no, no, fuck all that. I mean, he says it. He says he feels like we ain't debating who the best is. It's me.
Speaker 3:It's not Blue School. You know you're not doing that. Every nigga guys we consider them great. Wayne, you know. Tiff has said it about himself. Jay has said it about himself. They have said it to us I'm the best, as you're supposed to Right. Drake has said it to us. I'm the best, as you're supposed to Right. Drake has said it plenty of times, as you're supposed to. Yes, kendrick has never outright said I'm the greatest of all time.
Speaker 2:Neither has Nas.
Speaker 3:And.
Speaker 2:He said it. Oh on Magic. Magic was the first time he said that if I'm not the goat, that's just silly behavior. That's the first time.
Speaker 3:I've heard him say that to my recollection, kendrick has never outright said I'm the greatest all time, and the fact that we're having those conversations. Where is he in the list of top rappers or best rappers? That lets me know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he's one of them well, we got an interesting range because I got him in top 10, lo, you got him in top 5 and Sean says top 15 is more appropriate. So it's an interesting range. It's kind of it varies, you, you know, but for me personally, I'm glad you brought up Wayne, because prior to this battle, him and Wayne were just outside of my top 10, at 11 and 12, and they always kind of, you know, switch rankings depending on my mood. But after this battle, you know, kendrick moved into the top 10 and Wayne is at number 11.
Speaker 2:So Wayne's a little bit lower, or higher.
Speaker 3:In your top 10? Wayne's higher he's 5'6".
Speaker 2:If you want to know the person who got kicked out of my top 10, I had to kick Andre 3000 out because he just don't have. You know, any solo material to you know be put with other guys. I agree with that. So Kendrick moved in, you know. Doesn't take away from his ability to rap Right right, he's a top three in ability you know.
Speaker 3:Yeah, ability contribution skill set all that he's there. Ability contribution skill set all that he's there. I can't necessarily judge you. If you need a solo body, that's just me.
Speaker 1:But that's one of the reasons why I don't like to do the whole top thing or whatever. I like to break it down in terms, because if you look at the pyramid, the pyramid is there for a reason. When you think about those who are in that top, echelon, you got the top tier the gods here. Then you got the top tier Right.
Speaker 3:You got the gods. You got the gods. Then you got the princess Right. You got that, you got. Then it drops below.
Speaker 1:There should be a middle associated with them. There should be just. Here's the grouping, and this is what that grouping should look like. You know what I mean?
Speaker 3:God's a God's a whole, god's a big, god's a God's a that he can. Princes are Wayne, princes are Ray, princes are like. So those like those rankings when princes are raised, yes, so those rankings change, I can live with that, because it's again.
Speaker 1:Hip-hop is so subjective you cannot find three to four people to agree on a situation It'll never.
Speaker 3:I will tell you this right now. We will never, all of us agree, we cannot but but the good thing about this conversation.
Speaker 2:It's all subjective, but I think that was kind of the premise of what we were getting at with looking at your discographies and stuff, because we're, you know, like you was talking about sean with the different tierings and this might be biased, but forget, forget, nas' top three albums. Nas is in God tier, but I would take Nas' second grouping of best three albums and put him over Wayne's top three albums. Or you know some people who's in the next level tier.
Speaker 1:I would too. Let me get a super chat real quick, because I want to hear a little response to that. Oh, I agree with ag on that. Let me get the super chat. Uh, mad max said um, hold on. Uh, mad max said he's not one, he's not one of them. He media like hype, like eminem. Uh, mad max also stated top 10. Peter park stated kendrick is about the 10 to 15 range. I agree with that, peter Park and Mad Max said without classics, people say have no replay value. It's a very interesting take. So Lowell react to that. That's a good one. That's a good one, ag.
Speaker 2:And let me give some clarity to that. I mean, I'm meaning Lost Tapes, kd3, or, if you want to take that out of the equation because of recency bias, kd3 and Magic. Let's just say those are off the table. You give me Lost Tapes. God's Son and Life is Good. You know that's in Nas's. You know like fourth, fifth and sixth, seventh best albums, but I still think they're better than you know like fourth, fifth and sixth seventh best albums, but I still think they're better than you know somebody in the Wayne Turing's top three.
Speaker 3:Yeah, when you say, when you talk about replay value, are we talking about love, replay value? Are you talking about in front of your girl, replay value.
Speaker 2:Nah, that's semantics. Just what's the better albums, though.
Speaker 3:I mean to me, I'm going to have my picks. That's what I like, that's my replay value, that's what I'm going to play.
Speaker 2:What do you think are Wayne's top three albums?
Speaker 3:Oh, top three. I would say, top three is Carter 1, 2, 3.
Speaker 2:Okay, are you taking Carter 1, 2, and 3 over Lost States? God's Son and Life is Good.
Speaker 3:Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 2:Absolutely not. I disagree, I disagree.
Speaker 1:Again. That's the whole point of this.
Speaker 3:It's discourse. It's discourse.
Speaker 2:Take that New York hat off Lo.
Speaker 1:I think Lo moved to Jersey.
Speaker 3:You know if I took my New York hat off. Lo, I think, low-moving Jersey. If I took my New York, if I was doing this whole New York shit, I'd be like yeah.
Speaker 2:I know, I know I'm just messing with you.
Speaker 1:Low-moving Jersey means like 35. That's in low-moving Jersey. Lo was born in Atlanta, grew up in Florida.
Speaker 3:I was born in fucking Jersey, my dude, my father's from Queens, my father's from Northern Boulevard.
Speaker 1:Anybody recognize that yeah, it's not your father's from O'Shea Stadium.
Speaker 3:Your father's from? Yeah, before I got on the phone with y'all, this nigga called me. He's like why you ain't call me what you doing? I'm like nigga, I'm my father's from Northern Boulevard, if anybody know. Yeah, the old-shade stadium. My father's apartment was right across the street from the old-shade stadium. Yes, all that New York buying bullshit, like knock it off.
Speaker 1:That's what me and LP from.
Speaker 3:That's what me and Eppins are from we from that group, so you know what it is.
Speaker 1:Did he send you down to Atlanta for boarding school or something like that?
Speaker 3:No, I went to Tennessee for fucking Howard University. That's where I went. I'm fucking with me right now. I'm fucking with you.
Speaker 1:Because you're talking crazy. You got a little, sean got to sit out the states too.
Speaker 2:He got to sit out of the states too. He like fresh print, niggas not.
Speaker 3:Niggas fucking with me. My mom's wanting me to stay in Jersey. I'm like nigga, I want to go to DC. I want to go to Baltimore. I want to see. Yeah, that's why I love Wayne so much. You know, when I was at Howard, like niggas put me on UK and you know, you know Tennessee and fuckin'.
Speaker 1:Free State.
Speaker 3:Mafia. I mean, like I love Southern men, I love you, you do cause you a huge Jeezy, jeezy, what yeah?
Speaker 2:What Yo? I had Stacia head smoke for you, Lil, I ain't gonna lie.
Speaker 1:Yo, he had a fully loaded clip for you too, bro.
Speaker 3:Yo, he would not stop talking. I did. You think I ain't ready?
Speaker 2:Because you was talking about the Thug Motivation 101. And then you said Jada ain't ready. Because you was talking about the Thug Motivation 101, and then you said Jada, ain't have no classics. But I don't know if you remember I told you that Kiss the Game, Goodbye was Smoke, Thug Motivation and a versus on Stationhead.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:We got to do that. Let's set that up.
Speaker 3:We can do that, let's set that up. I'll watch you. Let's do that. I'll watch you. Let's do it. Let's do it. Jada's debut against G 100%.
Speaker 2:Let's do it, I'm excited. We'll set that up. We'll set that up for real.
Speaker 3:I'm ready.
Speaker 2:I've been waiting on that for months.
Speaker 1:I was like Kendrick you know what I'm saying waiting just to jump out the window. Nigga, let's put some money up he would not stop talking about it. He be like yo. I got smoke for low. I said yo, fam, you told me that he don't got nothing for me.
Speaker 3:He don't got nothing for me alright.
Speaker 2:You say that, alright. He don't know nothing for me, all right. You say that, all right, all right, all right. He don't know about kiss the gay goodbye. He don't know about show discipline. You ain't showing discipline right now.
Speaker 3:Lo Nigga. Listen, I'm from the bottom of the map, nigga, and this is off topic.
Speaker 2:I go crazy, nigga. Listen, this is off topic, but I'm glad this got brought up. You know it goes back to the point. You know we was talking about hits and smash hits. Like all hits are not created equal, like Jay-Z's hits doesn't look like 50 Cent's hits or Drake's hits or whatever, just like all classics ain't created equal, and you know, when you were on the station here and we were talking about that um before, with the Jeezy thing, I do think I do agree with your statement that Jeezy's album is a classic. Motivation One is no question a classic. I do agree that Kiss the Game Goodbye is not a classic. It's close but it's not quite. But the fact of the matter remains is I think they're being measured by two different bars. Jada's anticipation for what his album was supposed to be and live up to as a bar smith, as a wordsmith, as one of the best you know the rap game had seen up until that point, was a different bar set for him than jeezy. You know, coming out of the south it wasn't really.
Speaker 3:Yeah, there was no bar set, there was no expectation, right right so I was like we're not, we're not thinking, we're not, you know, right, it was no real expectation.
Speaker 2:So my point being is, with jada's first album, it's not like the quality necessarily isn't there, it's just that the bar was set for him high, to a point where he couldn't reach it or obtain it and gz gets the benefit of getting a classic, you know, renowned classic, because that came to smack us in the face. We wasn't expecting nothing.
Speaker 3:We were like what Right Right?
Speaker 2:So my thing is we just got to be fair in our judgment. That doesn't because Jeezy has a classic and then the Jadakiss album doesn't doesn't mean that the Jeezy album is necessarily better. Is what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:It's a regional classic All around.
Speaker 3:when you look at Jeezy's album, that debut album all around, it is better presented, better produced, better representing the sound.
Speaker 2:What'd you say? It was better lyrically.
Speaker 3:That's crazy Y'all y'all gotta get this good he didn't say that.
Speaker 1:He didn't say that, please. I didn't say that he didn't say that yeah, I was like I edited that out.
Speaker 2:We can edit that out, it's fine. Your headline tomorrow is going to be I didn't say that and he would get the message your headline tomorrow is going to be. I didn't say that.
Speaker 3:I said I posted on Twitter after this before I continue my point, before I get the fuck out of here. I didn't say it was better lyrically. I said it was better produced, better presented. I said it was better produced. I said it was better presented. I said it was better represented for a region that was on the uprisings of what hip-hop is transitioning. Jj was a part of that. Jj was in the middle. Jada will always be found as one of the best lyricists we've ever seen.
Speaker 3:Let's make that very fucking clear. No doubt Jeezy had a better package.
Speaker 2:That's the second crazy one today, that's false.
Speaker 3:We had a higher expectation for Jada because he was around the locks one of the best hip hop groups of all time. Jada is staying next to Jada, jada is going bar to bar with like that. We're looking at him like oh shit, this man is about to be.
Speaker 1:And then here comes Jeezy, smacks us dead in the face, and Jeezy came at a time where hip-hop was also transitioning and he was part of that. But that's my point, he was part of that.
Speaker 3:That South uprising was not led by him but he was a part of, he played a big part of it.
Speaker 1:He played a big part. He was a movement.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so we're looking at Jesus. I'm like what the fuck is this shit? Yeah, so it's like yeah, my nigga, that nigga over there is about to shake the fucking world up. Black teeth, white snowman, snowman shirt. Yeah, christmas ain't what it used to be.
Speaker 2:But we still gonna do that Stacia Head battle. We gonna set that up. We ain't been on Stacia Head in a minute. We gotta make an appearance back over there again.
Speaker 3:I mean it's respectfully. I'm gonna knock your ass out.
Speaker 2:What'd you say? You gonna put your Apple contract on the line. Okay, let's do it. That's crazy.
Speaker 3:I'm gonna knock your ass. I'm gonna knock your ass and don't you edit these clips to make me seem like I'm crazy.
Speaker 2:I swear tell Ebro I'll be pulling up to the show. Cause cause. Your contract will be null and void. I'm your new replacement, Lo, Just so you know. You're going to put your Apple contract on the line.
Speaker 3:If I get fired from this shit, I'm going to fuck you, nah, but it's always a pleasure talking to y'all niggas, man.
Speaker 1:What's up bro?
Speaker 3:I got to get back to my people we appreciate you, bro, Peace man.
Speaker 2:Peace man.
Speaker 3:Watch your ass in that versus.
Speaker 1:Yo, let me get this quick super chat. Yo, mad Max said talk to me, but that makes you lose yourself. Mad Max also stated Jada smoking Geezy D-Block. I'd like to know. Yeah, look, man, I think we all know that Jada will smoke Jeezy. I don't think that's a question. They're talking about battling with Jeezy's first album and Jada's first album.
Speaker 2:But I do agree with Not track this order.
Speaker 1:No, not track. Shout out to Tri.
Speaker 2:I tracked this order no I I I tracked it.
Speaker 1:Oh no, that's, that's not. That's not a try. Yeah, it's not a try boogie and those of you who just popping in your cool. Cooper and I did a show earlier today. We're going to release it tomorrow. Um, but Coop actually had a um, yeah, the schedule of he's coming back. We didn't kick Coop out of the group, so I don't want nobody to start thinking anything crazy. You don't sign an artist like Coop. You're going to partner with Coop.
Speaker 2:Yo, I'm going to have a new group, though, because I'm going to take Lil Sparta. You're going to see him on the couch at Rap Life next to Nadeska. That's what you're about to see me next.
Speaker 1:That'd be crazy. That'd be the first time West Virginia got that close to the hip hop like that. That'd be huge for West Virginia, bro. That real talk, that'd be crazy for West Virginia. I'm rooting for you. I appreciate it. I'm rooting for you. I want to see West Virginia win. I appreciate it. But no real talk. Though I do think that because of Jada's, the entire landscape for Jada was set out for him to be the next one up because he was killing everything on the mixtape scene. He was killing every feature. His pin game was crazy on no Way Out, so he had everything lined up for him to be the next one before Kiss the Game and Goodbye came out. Personally, I thought that Kiss the Game and Goodbye was. I don't, I can't. As much as I love Jada and love that album, I can't say it's a classic. I can say that to me it's, if it's, 4.5 mic album out of 5. I agree.
Speaker 2:It's a four and a half. It just missed the mark and my personal critique of it and we. It's funny that we ended up here because this wasn't on you know the itinerary. But for me personally I think he tried to please too many different, different demographics on the album and it kind of lost a little bit of focus along the way. You know what I mean. So, um, you know we got a west coast joint, a down south joint, club joint for the ladies group joint street joint, radio banger, like you know what I mean it's. You know it comes off, as you know, a little formulaic, but you know I still love that album right now because 2001 was a crazy year.
Speaker 1:Remember, that's when you all been wearing the rhinestone bandanas in 2001. In fact, and the velour, remember, we had velour, we was wearing velour. Sean John, can I even say that? Can I say Sean John?
Speaker 2:No, you can't.
Speaker 1:We'll edit that part out too. We'll edit that out too. We edit that out. But we was rocking some velour suits with the band and I can wear velours all that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the rhinestone bandanas was a nasty time bro rhinestone bandanas was a nasty time. You remember the uh, you remember the fubu jerseys.
Speaker 1:Like I hate the fubu jerseys.
Speaker 2:yes, the 05, they had the city on the front. You know my kid's mother. I remember I was like I think LL had a joint in the video with the Rhyme Stones to match the bandana and I was like yo need one of them joints. Couldn't find it nowhere, so you know what I'm saying. Went to a craft store, got the cubic zirconias she had that joined up for you, boy. You know what I mean that's, that's nasty.
Speaker 2:I wouldn't yo man it was a crazy time, man. It was a lot of nasty work going around.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna put that on repeat because you what you just said is crazy. That's gonna be a loop joint tomorrow morning yo, it was a wild time.
Speaker 2:You know what I'm saying. We had to, we had to make do. I guess, Some things didn't make it here to West Virginia.
Speaker 1:Look, I'm not judging you at all. I didn't do it. I didn't wear rhinestone bandanas and all of that. I had the velour. I'm not going to lie, I had every color velour.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I had the orange steel matty joint. You know what I'm saying. I had the baby blue, red.
Speaker 1:I had the baby blue Timbs. I had every color Tim at that time.
Speaker 2:I got clowned so hard for them. Baby blue Timbs, I had the UNC. Yeah, I had the UNC Timbs Like nobody had never seen them before and they act like I was a clown. You know what I'm saying. When I was to Marshall you see the flag I forgot they had a college in West Virginia.
Speaker 1:That's crazy. That's crazy. I came out the wrong way. You ain't go to college in New York.
Speaker 2:You got kicked out like Fresh Prince.
Speaker 1:Yo man, I told you that ain't private man. What are you doing? You keep blowing up Western to your spot. Bandana AG with the blue Timbs is crazy.
Speaker 2:Yo Bandana AG is crazy, Bandana AG.
Speaker 1:Bandana was crazy, I had all them joints.
Speaker 2:The beef and broccolis, yo, I had all them joints for real.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yo, but wearing Timbs with the velour though that was crazy, I know, and I had it too when I go front, yeah yeah, crazy times.
Speaker 2:Tim's with a velour on was nasty work but I did it.
Speaker 1:And I had like the um, I had like a towel. I wore like a wrap-up towel on my wrist, a wrap on tower on my wrist, a rap on tower on my neck or something weird. It was weird. It was weird. Yo Elbrad says TI discography is top 10 on my list.
Speaker 2:I don't know if I can put.
Speaker 1:TI got some joints man. He has a strong discography I can't front.
Speaker 2:Yo, let's get into that real quick, sean, because TI, I think he gets pushed to the wayside because of his character, right, and I don't think people you know hold him up as high in the ranks as they should. And we was talking a little bit behind the scenes about you know how people are judged differently is selective in. You know our outrage, what we want to point out, as we ain't down with that. You know what I'm saying, so you want to speak to that a little bit.
Speaker 1:I think TI, again in real time. Ti was really killing it. They were calling TI the Jay-Z of the South. At one point they were. You know what I mean. Then you have Rebel Madman that came out. I think Paper Trail was the one that got him out of here. If out when he had, I think Paper Trail was the one that got him out of here. If the Carter three was Wayne's out of here, moment to me, Paper Trail was TI's out of here.
Speaker 2:For me it would be King. I think King would be it. Here's why I said Paper.
Speaker 1:Trail, because Paper Trail checked all the boxes globally. It wasn't regional, he wasn't regional. No more after paper trail, in my opinion, because you had the joint Rihanna. That was a crossover. You had the joint swagger, like us was on there and I can appreciate anyone that feels keen. It's like I know people from New Orleans, I'm done there a lot.
Speaker 1:People from New Orleans tell me that volume volume to the Carter to is. Tell me that volume volume two. Uh, the carter two is wayne's best. You know I mean, but I'm talking about more, not regional, I'm talking about more global aspect where someone like myself, who's not, who isn't big on the southern artists, at that time I found myself vibing to paper trail. Right, because paper trail was one of those albums that just to me it checked a lot of boxes and soundscape wise. You know the beats was great on paper trail, um t I was in a different pocket. It's very similar to on to carter three. The carter three way. That doesn't sound like a new orleans album. The volume three it does like a new New Orleans album yeah, more global.
Speaker 2:And then on Paper Trails where TI had the Whatever you Like, right, because a lot of people compared that to Lollipop.
Speaker 1:I think the Paper Trails? No, no, I think that was. Wasn't that King? Whatever you Like, I don't remember.
Speaker 2:I thought it was Paper Trails, but I could be wrong. Somebody in the chat fact-checked that one, michael Brown, said.
Speaker 1:I agree, king made him a superstar. I'm not going to lie, king did make him a star. Paper Trail made him a superstar Because King was the setup, in my opinion, to Paper Trail. Again, that's me being someone from the outside of that region, knowing what that album did during my travels. During that time I was everywhere, I was overseas at that time, I was in different states and paper trail was everywhere during that time and it was. It was a moment to me in hip-hop paper trail was. So again, if someone says king, um, I can get, I get it because I think that I think that was during the time when that movie came out too.
Speaker 2:The one where they were skating. Yeah, ATL King was around that time and then what you know about that is arguably his biggest hit, I would think.
Speaker 1:I thought so too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what you know about that was a major Somebody in the chat said whatever you like is on king. Yeah, like those. Yeah, those three albums came out pretty quick. Uh, king ti versus tip and then um paper trail. They were out all pretty quick so I mixed those up yeah, this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because they were. They were back to back. They were consecutive because he was really running things at that time. He had to battle. He beat Lil Flip At that time. Lil Flip was one of the ones at that time he was coming up.
Speaker 2:And Luda was going back and forth too. A lot of people argued and won that one.
Speaker 1:And Luda went back and forth. He said he was the king of the south. He got some cosigns from some heavy hitters at that time too. So it was one of those things where he was carrying the torch for a minute. And I say that to say and we talked about this before and I know Coop and I talked about this earlier we got to be careful because we got to still see how things play out right, because even with Kendrick, at one point we did say Wayne was a goat, not we, not me but the people were saying at Tom, a lot of people were saying he was a goat. A lot of people were saying TI was a goat.
Speaker 1:Everyone goes through that phase because they're the hottest thing going on. Kendrick, I don't think he's the hottest thing going on. I think he's having a hot moment. There's a difference, because his signature moment, if you will, is a Drake battle. This is the battle we were waiting for for years between him and Drake. Kendrick's not new in the game. He's 15 years deep now, 10 years deep, something like that, 12 years deep, something like that. He's not new to the game. This is a signature moment for his legacy, right? That doesn't mean that he's now the GOAT because he's having a signature moment. Because, if that's the case, how many signature moments Sun had? Sun had signature moments since inception.
Speaker 2:Still having signature moments. Still having signature moments.
Speaker 1:Still having signature moments. You dig what I'm saying. So if I see, Jordan Davis said he was in the Kendrick was in the GOAT Convo since 2012.
Speaker 2:That's crazy. Not if you're being objective.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and like you were just saying, good kid man City was a signature moment, absolutely, but I'm talking about right now, today. This is another signature moment for him because he's taken down arguably the biggest artists rap artists, if you will in hip hop right now. This is a big to me, and just only my opinion. This is a bigger signature moment than Good Kid Mad City, because signature moment than Good Kid Mad City Because we know what Good Kid Mad City is, we know it's a phenomenal album, but this is a moment where he dethroned an artist at the magnitude of Drake.
Speaker 2:But here's where I have a problem. Here's where I have a problem with that. I agree with you and agree with you at the same time, sean, going to the you know, transition into the whole Drake conversation and, um, the battle with Kendrick. You know a lot of people are saying this is the best battle of all time. You know what I mean and I can't give it that um on on on the rap side of things, because a lot of people let's be real, they act like Drake shouldn't even be in the ring with Kendrick. You know I still hold Jay-Z and Nas as the pinnacle of a rap battle.
Speaker 2:No, it wasn't what we get now. Like you know, all these tracks released within. You know, one week we got like five or six tracks, you know, between the two of them in a week's time frame. So the frantic pace of it, you know. One week we got like five or six tracks, you know, between the two of them in a week's time frame. So the frantic pace of it, you know, lends to the excitement. And then it's on a more worldwide scale with the fan bases.
Speaker 2:But just on some rap stuff, jay-z and naz, they wasn't battling for the best of their era, you know they're essentially battling for goat supremacy. You know what I mean. They was battling for king of new york status. They was battling for GOAT supremacy. You know what I mean. They was battling for King of New York status. They was battling for their position as GOATs in this game because Big and Pop was no longer here and it was more at stake. And then, you know, and granted, with this Kendrick and Drake thing, it was a little bit more chatty. You know what I'm saying with you know certain allegations, so I can't give it to Nod as the greatest battle of all time over that. But what I also will say with Jay and Nod, both opponents were on equal footing. No doubt Jay was the bigger star, but as far as their abilities, they were on somewhat equal footing, no doubt With Kendrick and Drake.
Speaker 2:Now we in this weird situation where how big is this win for him? Really, if the person that he took out has a questionable pen, it opens up a whole new, you know, layer to this battle. Because are you gonna? He won a battle he was supposed to win, right, right. And Drake is a big star, you know, in the pop realm, and the biggest star sales wise we have as a rapper, but if you look over your opponent, at your opponent, and your opponent is not cut from the same cloth that you are, you know, as a lyricist, as somebody who crafts, you know their, you know their art, then how, how, how are we really going to hold this win? And I'm just asking that question because I think it puts it in a weird space where we have to really evaluate it differently.
Speaker 1:I think.
Speaker 1:I agree with you. I agree with you. But here's what I will say the Jay and Nas battle, the dynamics were so different than this that think you can even compare them. You can't even put them side by side. Because at the time when Jay was really on top of the world he's doing the Hot 97 joint Summer Jam he pretty much took out Prodigy. God bless, god bless the dead. Prodigy was one of those. Prodigy was no slouch, you know. I mean you just don't take out Prodigy like that. Prodigy was no slouch and he took Prodigy out.
Speaker 1:He was having hits, I mean, if you want to call him his bangers or whatever, he was having those consecutive years in a row at a time when Nas was getting, it was going creative wise, at a time when Nas was going creative-wise. You know the whole IM thing. We talked about that at length, how IM was a situation where it probably could have been bigger than what it really was. Paul, he still sold albums on IM. Im still went triple platinum. Even Nostradamus Nostradamus still went platinum at that time.
Speaker 1:The QB's finest was at the greatest. It was more of a compilation of QB guys. Uchiwale was the biggest song off of that. So now you're talking about Nas, at a point where people was looking at him as taking steps back. You know what I'm saying. But if you look at it back in hindsight, in real time, it was only about a year, the two-year gap between him making IM 99, nostradamus 99, then you had QB's finest in 2000, then you had Steelmatic in 2001. So it really there was really not the, the, I guess the fall off, if you want to call it that, was, uh, was fabricated yeah, and he was still rapping on chuby's finest, like let's not get it twisted, like he was rapping, rapping on that album twisted so I think the stakes were different, because this was a point where, like you said, same thing with drake and kindred there wasn't a.
Speaker 1:They were, and Kendrick, they were on a collision path. They were on a collision path, they were eventually going to get to that point. We just didn't know what was going to happen when they get to this point. Same thing with Nas. Nas and Jay was on a collision course. It was bound to happen. It was bound to happen. They were already throwing some.
Speaker 2:The best supposed to clash at the top Nas happen. It was bound to happen.
Speaker 1:They were already throwing some. The best was supposed to clash at the top. I said that myself. Best was supposed to clash at the top and no one thought at that time that he was going to get it. Let's be real, you know what I mean Queens get the money all day. I didn't think he was going to get the figure four leg lock when Takeover came out. You know what I'm saying. That's a perfect disc record, right yo, peace, jar, peace, yeah. So I mean, it's one of those things where when we was like yo, when when it dropped, be like queens, get the money, be back, we back. So I say I say this I don't think that this battle between k?
Speaker 1:Dot and drake I think it pushes the needle a little bit for K-Dot, but I think at some point we will have to see what happens next with his album. Not so much as a battle, it's more so about what can he do after this? Because you got to drop a stellar album after this. When Jay dropped Takeover, it was accompanied by Blueprint. When Jay dropped Takeover, it was accompanied by Blueprint. When Nas dropped Krista, it was accompanied by Still Maddie. Two phenomenal albums within their own rights. That's a hell of a point. Yeah Right, what does Kendrick do with this? What does J Cole do with this? Because that song Grippy, that Grippy shit, they ain't gonna get it.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry, cole, grippy is not going to get it. Grippy's not going to get it. Let's, let's not. Let's not talk about that, but let's. Yeah, that was disappointing man, but let's, let's address the elephant in the room, right, because if we're going to be, you know um, you know hard on j cole as far as the apology and then what you know he's uh come out with with this grippy song, then how do we feel about you know, draking these reference tracks? What's, what's your take on that?
Speaker 1:look man, um, why? Why he's taking these l's, man, you got to give him more l's, I guess. Guess, most, a lot of artists has a bunch of reference tracks, you know? I mean, um, a lot of artists has reference tracks and he's not. He's not the only one, he's the one that we decided to continue to kick.
Speaker 1:To be quite honest now, this is not news. This is not new news that drake has had a ghostwriter reference tracks, etc. Um, this is this is not new news. I think it had a ghostwriter reference tracks, et cetera. This is not new news. I think it's because we're still in the algorithm of, you know, fuck Drake, or whatever you want to call that, and this is just add on. I think it's because it's a song about mob ties and it's time to continue to pile on to that.
Speaker 1:But there's a lot of artists, man that we still love today that has had reference tracks or even had a suspicion of ghostwriting. Look at Dr Dre. We love Dr Dre, we admire Dr Dre, we hail Dr Dre. Dr Dre may not have written not one verse since his NWA days. If he even wrote, then Ice Cube and you had MC Ren in that room you know what I'm saying so again. Man, it's hip-hop. You're going to get criticized and ridiculed for ghostwriting, for reference tracks, so on and so forth. And yeah, dre is a producer, I get it, but he's also billed as a rapper.
Speaker 2:I think the difference is? I think the difference is whether it be the Kanye situation, because we all know he has writers. We all know has Dre has writers. We all know you know your boy from bad boy had, you know had writers. But the difference with Drake is with the reference track and the writers. Like we was talking about early when Lo was on here, drake is somebody who's proclaimed himself to be the best you know. So when you're beating your chest saying that, making those claims, and then it comes out that you have an artist's help, I think that eliminates you from a lot of these conversations. You know what I mean and you know, as an artist, you know one of the biggest artists we've had, numbers wise or whatever. I mean he's always going to be in that discussion. I mean he's at the top. You know what I mean. But as far as, like some of the greatest MCs, you're no longer qualified, you, you want to have an asterisk by your name, right?
Speaker 1:Because but does that, does that impact someone like Lil' Kim Foxy Brown?
Speaker 2:I mean it does. I mean we just we just have to be consistent across the board. Like you know, we're saying we're early, we can't be selective and and how we do do these things. Like you know, drake, the first time this came around and the Quentin Miller stuff came about, right, I think people kind of look past that to a degree and most of his fan base just didn't care because, like a lot of the modern day fans, they're not in tune with the rules of hip hop, like you know an artistry of it and you need to write your own bars or what have you. They can care less as long as the music is good, right.
Speaker 2:But the fact, the thing that bothered me is these tracks are dated after the whole, you know, quentin Miller and Meek situation. Almost like you're doubling down, like either you tone deaf or you don't care, right, you know, with the reference tracks, because you know if, if the allegations came out that was true and I caught a lot of flack, even though he beat Meek at that time, I'm kicking everybody out of the room, not getting any references out of. You know what I mean, because that was a big scandal for you know that was a stain on his career at the time. So to me, the part that bothered me is this happened after that fact like he was doubling down and I was like yo, that's kind of crazy. But here's another thing too.
Speaker 2:Some people might say, you know, it don't matter if it's just a hook, if it's just a melody, which I agree with you know, if it's not within the bars, like somebody writing your sixteens or whatever. But one thing that you know not just one thing, but a few things that Drake hangs his hat on is melodies, cadences, hooks. I just had an argument with Kupon here the other day, and you know we was on the pod. He said 50 Cent is the greatest hook writer of all time and I was like nah Drake's in that conversation. But like how much can I say that now and defend that when I don't know what hooks are of his own? You know what I mean. And then all we have in front of us Is the evidence of the reference tracks that's here. But that puts speculation on everything.
Speaker 1:Now, right, At least for me? You know as taking flows, or are they the same vein as biting specific lyrics?
Speaker 2:All of them are offensive, you know. But in the event of reference track and ghostwriting is being presented to you, like here, I'm going to wrap this in the boat and give it to you and all you got to do is put your spin on it and put it out to the world. Biting and still in flows is just what it is. It's taking it from somebody, taking somebody else's ip, somebody else's property, and claiming it as your own. You know what I mean. Both are offensive, but we got to be consistent across the board with what we take offense to. You know what I mean. We are offensive, but we got to be consistent across the board with what we take offense to. You know what I mean. We can't say like, all right, this guy had a reference track, I hate what he did, but this guy, he's copying this person's flow and that person's flow all the time. So I'm cool with that. Like I'm just saying, we need to be consistent across the board. But I'm offended by all of it. You know what I mean, because it brings everything in question.
Speaker 2:Like I was one of the people on here during the battle, you know, defending drake when it was still, when it was still up when it was still active, when it wasn't a, you know, a real official winner declared at that point. Yeah, but you know, around those times, uh, the jumbo shit, jumbotron shit popping, uh that reference track from Yachty came out, but I didn't care about that. I mean that song is trash. The Ratchet Happy Birthday with Party Next Door that's Drake's worst song to me. So I'm like I don't care, it's trash. But if the more stuff that comes out that you got reference to, what can we expect to be of your own? You know what I mean, because this is stuff that's out in the open. We don't know it as being kept behind closed doors. That's not his own and I think we're in a weird place with that I get it.
Speaker 1:I'm more of a fan of someone who is original. You know what I mean. Let me ask you this then, even for Jay fans out there when Jay says I'm not a biter, I'm a writer for myself and others, I say a big verse. I'm only bigging up my brother. Is that still biting? Or is that him bigging up his?
Speaker 2:brother, that's Jay's spin on it. For me, me, this is what it comes when it becomes a problem. Anything that's done in excess. A lot of people hate on game because of the name dropping which he doesn't do it as much present day as he did early in his career. Right, but when something is done in excess and poor taste then it gets to be a problem, like Jay-Z with the taking lines and stuff and biting. You say I'm paying homage. But when it's done in excess then it blurs that line between take, between um, paying homage and, you know, bite.
Speaker 2:And I think Jake got away with it a lot of those years because a lot of his audience couldn't identify the lines he was taking, you know. But somebody who's a savvy listener, who was engulfed in hip hop, you could be like that's Coogee Rap, that's Rock Him, that's Kane, that's Big. I mean Big was the most obvious one, but you know, that's Slick Rick, that's Nas, like. You know what I mean. So in excess is a problem. So that's where I'm at with this Drake thing, like the Quint Millis stuff.
Speaker 1:I want to piggyback off of that. Give me one second. Matt Max said the backpack joints ain't been exposed On the backpack offer. I'm going to piggyback off of that because you're right, jay. He referenced a lot of Big Nas, ra Kane and others. So when he came through with the whisper flow and for anyone out there who's from Philly in the chat, when he came through with the whisper flow, did that change anything? Because now he's adopting a cadence?
Speaker 2:Yeah, but real ones called it out. I know personal Jay fans that think Jay's the GOAT that called that whole era Jay out Like yo. You copying young Chris and you can be objective. Both things can be true. They can still be your favorite for whatever reason, but you got to call a spade a spade sometimes and I feel like the only thing that I've been inconsistent with in that regard was I think dirty is one of the most you know. Odb is one of the most brilliant minds we've ever had in rap, just like his. You know his style and what he brought to the table, but GZA was writing a lot of dirty stuff.
Speaker 1:It was just Dirty. Who was delivering it? The whole thing, yeah.
Speaker 2:I think that's the only time I've never had a problem with that. But it's not fair if I'm saying it's okay for Dirty to get handed rhymes and stuff like that. But I say it's not fair if I'm saying it's okay for dirty to get you know, handed you know rhymes and stuff like that. But I say it's not, it's not okay for Drake to do it. So it's a slippery slope. But I'm just more disappointed that Drake doubled down on it after it was already exposed. You know what I mean. I'm doubling down again and put you know it's more reference tracks to come, but it speaks a lot to his relevancy, you know, because if other people was giving them flows, hooks, cadences and he's able to navigate that through the years, then no wonder he's been around and at the top so long. And people joke about the OVO sweatshop. But a lot of truth is said and, jess, I guess it's a real thing.
Speaker 1:Might be a real thing. Might be a real thing. Might be a real thing, no doubt so. Well, let's, let's, let's, create a wrap this thing up. Man, we got some new music coming up in the next 20,. What A few hours, a couple of hours now. Yeah, yeah, your boy, eminem, about to drop a single.
Speaker 2:Houdini, my boy. I heard a snippet of that I laughed. I laughed as somebody who's been a fan of Eminem over the years. I never get excited about his first single because his first singles are usually the corny joints. You know I'll reserve any judgment for when the album drops. But I was surprised to see you know the theme, you know with the whole Houdini thing and the magic, and you know that stuff. Wouldn't, I say, name a rapper that I ain't influenced.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:That's just not crazy.
Speaker 1:Mad Max said when they send a timestamp reference, he's done. I hope That'll be the end. Honestly, You're right, Mad Max said when they send a timestamp reference, he's done. I hope that that'll be the end. Honestly, you're right, Mad Max. That'll be the end. That'll be it. No, but we will see. We got some great music coming up. I know we heard the hit boy Big Hit joint with Alchemist. We'll talk about that coming up here soon.
Speaker 2:Can I say a few words about that real quick.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yo you know if anybody, can I say a few words about that real quick. Yeah, if anybody had any confusion on that project and this is not a full-on review, it's just a reaction it is not, in fact, hip-boy and Alchemist only feature rapping on one song. Right, I was kind of shocked because that's what I thought no-transcript, his father and then Alchemist, but I was actually surprised. It's more of a Hit-Boy, I'm sorry, it's more of a big hit album produced by Alchemist and Hit-Boy. You know, sharing production duty, right, right, the beats are hard-hitting and you know it's crazy. Like some of the beats they gave big hit.
Speaker 2:I'm like man, if Benny would have had some of these same joints, man, like that might be different. Like these beats are crazy. Big hit. You know what can I say? He got hard hitting lyrics. His hook writing is you pretty dope man, something that you know people should talk about. Like, I'm loving a lot of his hooks and, um, you know, I think just genuinely big hit is the best story we got in rap right now that nobody's talking about man, just like, I can't say it enough. Just, you know doing a long bit. I don't want to say it was like 18 years, his longest stint, and then getting out linking up with his son, who's a workhorse, who's putting out project after project after project. You know we say naz the goat, he gave our goat six hell of. You know stellar projects, right yeah but he didn't stop working.
Speaker 2:he's still churning out efforts with different artists and him sewing that work into his own pops. Man and his pops, you know delivering, you know on on the rhymes and you know putting out dope projects. You know, after being held down for so long, I just, you know, in the family aspect of it, I just don't think enough media outlets are talking about that man. It's something really beautiful to see, man and I'm glad they're putting out work for real.
Speaker 1:No doubt. Yeah, we'll get deep into that album, paul, when we get a chance to process it. Shout out to Coop. Coop couldn't make it tonight, had to schedule a conflict, but we actually him and I did a show earlier today. We're going to drop that, probably tomorrow morning. For you all, this is something that we wanted to do as a team. We decided to do it this way, so we appreciate y'all actually pulling up tonight for this live. We're going to drop a couple more joints in the next couple of days.
Speaker 1:This is pretty much an anniversary for us with our 10th episode our official 10th episode, if you will and we wanted to do a little something special with it because we really wanted to talk about, you know, the greatest rappers versus the greatest albums. So again, we appreciate. Of course you've got to represent that and you see what I got. You see this right here. But we wanted to give a shout out to Lo from Apple for hopping on.
Speaker 1:We all know Lo is a whole venture, so his takes are always a funny take for us. We like to spar with him on that. But we also want to make sure we pay homage to all the rappers who have classic albums, not just the ones that we love, but the ones that we respect the most as well. Again, appreciate you all coming out. Shout out to Apple, shout out to Spotify, shout out to our sponsors out there who are showing some love as well To Echo Radio for actually showing love and sponsoring these episodes that we have over the last couple of nights and we got some more stuff in store, so be looking for another drop tomorrow.
Speaker 1:Shout out to the 22-4 at the Bronx for this hat. Myself, Nas and Mello are the only three that has this particular New York Mets hat with Nas' face and New York Mets on the other side. So shout out to 22 for that.
Speaker 2:That's a flex.
Speaker 1:Subtle flex. That's a major key. I'll make it a couple more and give it out to a special fan. We'll do some pull-ups. We are doing pull-ups. Real soon we're going to go out to Hookah Lounge with Low and keep their back in over there for us. We got some other joints that we got set up as well. So again, we appreciate y'all.
Speaker 2:Thank you for the chat, thank you for the uh, for the engagement and all of that good stuff yo real quick, if you're new here, subscribe, you know, tell a friend to tell a friend to pull up to hip-hop talks, you know, and hit the like button. It costs you nothing. So you know, gotta help us out absolutely.
Speaker 1:And queens get the money we out, shout out to Coop, coop Pop peace and the team Andrew Tribe, boogie Stacks Taj everybody. Peace, yes, sir, peace.