Ever wondered how Staten Island became a cornerstone of hip-hop culture? Legendary producer Phantom of the Beats joins us to reveal the untold story of this often-overlooked borough. From its family-friendly vibes to its close-knit community, learn how Staten Island provided a safer, more spacious haven for creativity compared to Brooklyn and Manhattan. Phantom takes us through the collaborative spirit that fueled the island’s unique hip-hop identity and shares his personal journey from Brooklyn to becoming an influential figure in Staten Island’s music scene.
Ready for a deep dive into the rise of UMCs? Phantom recounts the organic formation of the duo, transitioning from their initial group MI6 to the iconic UMCs. Uncover the playful wordplay behind their names and the enigmatic meaning of their hit song "Blue Cheese." We also tackle the darker side of the music industry, exposing how young artists are often exploited by record labels and how this reality shapes their creative output. Expect some eye-opening insights about the emotional and financial struggles that drive artists to produce raw, confrontational music.
In this episode, we also navigate the golden age of hip-hop, critiquing Forbes' controversial hip-hop rankings and reminiscing about legendary MCs from the '90s. Phantom shares behind-the-scenes stories from life on tour and details the creation of iconic beats, like those on Wu-Tang Clan’s "Enter the Wu-Tang (36 Chambers)." We wrap up with a lively debate on the state of modern hip-hop, the influence of hip-hop producers, and the long-term value of respecting the process. This episode is a must-listen for anyone passionate about hip-hop culture, filled with heartfelt stories, industry secrets, and a nod to the timeless quality of truly great music.
Ever wondered how Staten Island became a cornerstone of hip-hop culture? Legendary producer Phantom of the Beats joins us to reveal the untold story of this often-overlooked borough. From its family-friendly vibes to its close-knit community, learn how Staten Island provided a safer, more spacious haven for creativity compared to Brooklyn and Manhattan. Phantom takes us through the collaborative spirit that fueled the island’s unique hip-hop identity and shares his personal journey from Brooklyn to becoming an influential figure in Staten Island’s music scene.
Ready for a deep dive into the rise of UMCs? Phantom recounts the organic formation of the duo, transitioning from their initial group MI6 to the iconic UMCs. Uncover the playful wordplay behind their names and the enigmatic meaning of their hit song "Blue Cheese." We also tackle the darker side of the music industry, exposing how young artists are often exploited by record labels and how this reality shapes their creative output. Expect some eye-opening insights about the emotional and financial struggles that drive artists to produce raw, confrontational music.
In this episode, we also navigate the golden age of hip-hop, critiquing Forbes' controversial hip-hop rankings and reminiscing about legendary MCs from the '90s. Phantom shares behind-the-scenes stories from life on tour and details the creation of iconic beats, like those on Wu-Tang Clan’s "Enter the Wu-Tang (36 Chambers)." We wrap up with a lively debate on the state of modern hip-hop, the influence of hip-hop producers, and the long-term value of respecting the process. This episode is a must-listen for anyone passionate about hip-hop culture, filled with heartfelt stories, industry secrets, and a nod to the timeless quality of truly great music.
yo, yo, yo, fellas what it do. Good evening, good evening, peace, peace, peace, peace. Got my man cool, got the living legend house the fans with the how y'all doing out there tonight, fellas, heat for the street all day, all day, baby.
Speaker 2:All day.
Speaker 3:Blessed. I'm vertical. It's time to get it. Yeah, that's all I need. I don't need nothing else. I just need to wake up and go get it. So let's get it.
Speaker 1:Yes, sir, let's definitely get it, absolutely, absolutely. Thank you all for hopping in tonight. Make sure you click like and subscribe to the channel. Make sure y'all send some great comments. Tonight we have a good one. Tonight we have a living legend we want to interview. We're going to really get into the history of everything Staten Island, everything, haas, everything, phantom of the Beats. We have a legend in the building. Cool, I'm going to kick it over to you. You get us started, bro.
Speaker 3:First of all, I just want to thank you for coming on. I'm really really excited to ask you some questions. There's a documentary that's been recently put together, that you actually took part in, called the Culture of Hip Hop, and part one is actually talking about the story of Staten Island, which you played a major part in. I watched it today. I was super impressed and I didn't really totally because, I mean, I'm not a New Yorker I didn't totally realize how early and important you are to Staten Island becoming more than, I guess, the Forgotten Borough, because that's what it's called. Like outside of the five boroughs, it's considered to be the Forgotten Borough because of the water.
Speaker 2:Quite frankly, yeah, it's the water, the bridge, the ferry boat, you know what I mean. But Staten Island's rich. We got like what. We got like three, four bridges on Staten Island. You know what I mean. So we communicating, we got like what. We got like three, four bridges on Staten Island. You know what I mean. So we, we, we communicate and we moving around, we, you know we, traveling all through the island, off the island, from different angles, from different areas. You know what I'm saying, but you know Staten Island is a nice little hub in its own.
Speaker 2:But, like I said, you know it's that water and that ferry and the bridge that you know kind of through some little you know, I don't know some psychic I don't know barrier, you know, on us. It really wasn't that, because Staten Island is really basically comprised of the other boroughs, right, whether people know it or not.
Speaker 3:Right, absolutely so. That was some of the early talk I wanted to have with you. I gathered from the documentary that Brooklyn is the closest borough, correct?
Speaker 2:Yes, brooklyn is right across the bridge.
Speaker 3:Brooklyn is right across the bridge brooklyn's right across the bridge, right across the varizano, and then you got manhattan right across the water on the ferry right, so you're close to uptown and you're close to bk, so you're like a 20 30 minute boat ride away right, or bridge ride there you go, okay. So so, with that being said, like, do you feel like that? Um, the staten island scene, uh, when you were coming up in it like hip-hop wise, was heavily like influenced by those connecting things because I think sound wise, even stylistically. When I, when I hear you, I hear and see from your stage, your stage performances as part of UMC's, I see like Kane in a lot of ways, but like in a good way, like in terms of like giving a full show, but also like, like the lyrical dexterity and the content being provided.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean from from my perspective. I moved from Brooklyn, so that that be known first, I'm from Brooklyn, I'm from Flatbush, I'm from where special ed is from, you know what I mean. I'm from where all the Brooklyn heads is from. So when I moved to Staten Island, that was all just about. You know, I was young at the time and you know when you're living with your parents or your moms or whatever you got to go where they're going, you know, and you know mom's plight was to to find a better way of living for the kids. You know what I'm saying. To grow up, you know, a little more comfortable than than these Brooklyn streets. You understand what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:So we moved out to Staten Island, but you know I still took my heritage with me. You know I'm straight from BK, so I'm out on the island learning different ways of living, different ways of life, cooler, calmer. You know what I'm saying. But still, you know that bug is here because I'm used to a different pace, I'm used to moving differently. So all I did was bring what I knew from Brooklyn over to Staten Island and you know, just, you know, saturated with what I knew but at the same time picked up on what was going on out there, but at the same time, picked up on what was going on out there and that's how we ended up figuring out, developing our own new, you know, identity. You know, and that goes for Kim too you know when, kim, kim and myself. You know Kim is Staten Island, but you know family in Brooklyn, family all over the place, all the boroughs, you know moving around and just Staten Island was just haven. You know it was to run free outside, without worrying about any drama. You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:So it sounds like you're saying Staten Island provided more space and safety.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was more family orientated. You know, nothing really hit yet. That was crazy and and and harsh to deal with at the time that we got out there. You know what I'm saying. Everything was you know what we're moving to yeah, so about what?
Speaker 3:year? Is this where, where you're moving?
Speaker 2:I moved. I moved to staten island probably like 80, I want to say 82, 83. So around that time it was still. Everything was still. You know what I mean. That's when the parents felt, yo, let's move out there, because we could get away from this. But, like I said, the Allen is comprised of all the boroughs. So around that time is when a lot of the different boroughs and people started moving into Staten Island, all they did was bring the baggage with them, right? So that's when it started switching. We got a taste of the chill life for a second, but it did get hot, okay.
Speaker 3:So, with that being said, I want to know who are the Paris and Avenue crews, and what's up? With Stapleton versus Park Hill? And why did Park Hill embrace like the new Brighton guys and not the Stapleton guys?
Speaker 2:All right, embrace, like the new Brighton guys and not the Stapleton guys, all right. So I'm not going to talk on what I wasn't really really privy to, because now this is going to take you into why. Umc's were sort of a different breed from Staten Island. I didn't grow up out there, I wasn't part of the entire foundation, the niche of Staten Island. Now you have your Paris Cruise, you got your Stapleton, your Gladiator Posse's. There's different projects, different projects and, like I said, you're bringing people from different boroughs onto the island. So you know, tribes, tribes, start developing. You know what I mean. So it's just like anywhere else Nah, son, your crew ain't better than our crew over here and nah, we don't mess with y'all, we just gonna jump over y'all. Go mess with them dudes over there. You know what I mean. Because we get along, because so-and-so's cousin lives over there and so-and-so lives over here, so we get a better connection with them dudes over there. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:It's the same hood politics that you know. That you know. You know what I mean. So that's everything that was going down out there. We weren't the collective, you know. Oh, we're going to one for all, all for one. There was still segregation within the communities and you know somebody had beef with somebody. You know families over there. This one don't like that one, it's all the same thing. It goes on no matter where you at Staten Island, brooklyn, queens. You know I got friends at Best Thigh. I got friends at Crown Heights. I got friends at Flatbush. My friends at Flatbush don't like my dudes from Bed-Stuy. Sometimes Bed-Stuy dudes don't like my dudes that I hang out in Crown Heights with. Oh nah son, I know that dude. He used to go with my sister's nephew's brother. She used to do this and he used to do that. It's just a bunch of mush. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3:I think our the black experience here in America. Our version of like the mafia is like cliques and crews, except for like we're not organized and like you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:Like because, yeah, but also there was a point we were organized. We were the most organized species on the planet earth yeah, yeah, once upon a time, definitely yeah.
Speaker 3:So you know a lot of people always looked at um force mds has like a singing group, but to me they're like maybe the first fusion of rap and r&b that we find in a group. Were they groundbreaking like that in statin like? Or they like the group that made everybody believe that it was possible? Because, uh, stevie d and mercury rap, but they're mostly known for like tender love. You know what I mean, but it's like they had bars it's, it's.
Speaker 2:I don't think it's really a matter of they had bars. I think it's really, if we look at it, it's their climb to success, or their climb to figure out what they wanted to get to. So they started out as that, but they already knew, like you know, this is where we want to get to. But you know we're going to break in like this because we could do that. You know what I'm saying. So it wasn't that they focused on rapping, it's just that at the time, yo, I could spit some bars. You know, make it melodic. We wild out on everybody. We do what we do, but the main goal was yeah tender love.
Speaker 2:The main goal was getting to that point of letting everybody know look, we're good at this. Now we end with this. Now we're going to show you our elevation, you know what I'm saying. And they took it to where it had to go and I'm eternally thankful and appreciative for those brothers because the way they did it, we sat back and we just watched it. You know, we watched it from just being on a ferry boat and singing in front of the hundreds and thousands of people that would cross that boat each day, you know, and they would just sing and sing, and sing and you know, the tips were coming, the gratitude was coming, you know, they put on for their burrow, you know, and what better place to do it at was right on the ferry. So, you know, you never know who's riding a ferry boat at any random time, you know, and their mark, that's where they set it at, you know. And, like I said, I'm appreciative of them because they're the ones who really, really broke ground and showed a lot of us that if you want it, you got to go get it. And this is one thing that I live off of.
Speaker 2:When I moved out to Staten Island, I lived off of this. I said, yo, the water is not going to come to us. No pun intended, we're surrounded by water, but what I'm saying is, what we're looking for is not going to come to us. We got to get on this boat, we got to get on this ferry, we got to go back to the city, where the pot of gold is, where the fountain is. You know what I'm saying. Pot of gold is where the fountain is. You know what I'm saying. If we stay out here and not move around and not get involved with what's going on out there, where it's happening at, we're not going to ever be seen. You know what I'm saying. We're just going to be that burrow that's just sitting there.
Speaker 2:But the force, they ran uptown, they ran Brooklyn, they ran Queens, they ran all over the place to make a name for themselves and then brought it back home to Staten Island. While they was out there, they let everybody know that's where they were from blueprint that UMC's followed. We knew that, yo, there's no executives for record labels that live out here on Staten Island. There's no labels out here on Staten Island. There's no producers out here on Staten Island. You know what are we going to do? Hold on.
Speaker 3:What about R&S? Because I was going to ask you about R&S and the things that he bequeathed to you that you've kind of like Established producers.
Speaker 2:Okay, there's no established producers out here on Staten Island. There's no established record label executives out here on Staten Island. There's no Def Jams. There's no Select Records out here on Staten Island, there's no Def Jams. There's no Select Records out here on Staten Island. There's no Tommy Boy Records out here on Staten Island. There's no Warner Music on Staten Island. We're just out here. You know what I mean out here. But don't get it twisted. It was the perfect place to hone our craft. You know what I mean, because it was away from everybody. We had our own, you know, section, our own area to do our work without being bothered, without really really being influenced and sounding like everybody else. We were able to, you know, construct our own situation.
Speaker 3:So that was actually one of the questions that I had later on. That I wanted to ask you was that do you feel like being in Staten created a more creative space to kind of like bless the canvas with you know, because, like, when I hear stuff that comes out of Staten Island, it's always a high creative license to it. As I'd like to say, do you think that the barrier with the water helped the creativity of the music and of the crews that came out of there?
Speaker 2:Because I mean the proof is in the pudding. Everybody from Staten Island sounds unlike everybody else. Yes, and I'm saying I mean there was points at times they tried to put us with native tongue.
Speaker 1:I don't know Right, righteous teachers or righteous teachers.
Speaker 2:But guess what? We all got body on staten island too. Like I said, the different boroughs moved out there. So all the gods the earth's moved out there. You know what I mean. So we all had knowledge itself out there, even though we was living in Staten Island. You know, we came from Brooklyn, we came from Manhattan with all of that knowledge. It's just that we were out there and we were, you know, somewhat isolated from the everyday things that go down in Manhattan and Brooklyn. And you know, everywhere else we had our own little tribe going on out there, and even within the tribe there was tribes. You know what I'm saying. So we just had to figure it all out while we were there. But our creative was was undisturbed. Our creative process was undisturbed. We had full concentration on what we wanted to do and how we wanted to do it, you know, without anybody infringing on us or us infringing on them.
Speaker 3:You know, so where did you meet, cool Kim, and how did UMC is actually like come to be? What does the formation of you to look like?
Speaker 2:That was funny, that that was see, see, here we go. That's one of those situations where my mans live over here, this dude live over here, but he's like nah, we got this new kid that just moved in from brooklyn, he lives over here with us. And then, nah, son, we got this dude who been doing it out here, young kid he's, he lives over here with us. Nah, son, they should battle, they should meet up, they should what? Let's see who could do it. You know the best, ah, ah. So now you got this crew wanting to battle that crew with you. Know, they, little pit bull, I'm the other pit bull. They want to put us together. You know, see who gets who.
Speaker 2:But we didn't, we didn't gel like that as soon as we caught up with each other, you know, it was just nothing but love. Like yo you dope, I'm dope. I guess that's just the mind frame we were in. You know what I'm saying. Like I'm not going to be puppeteered by nobody. You understand what I'm saying. Like this is yo, this is a art form, an art form that we're trying to develop. And at that point in time we didn't know what lied beyond. What we did know was at that point in time we're supposed to do something. That's really really dope, really really great. There's no need for no conflict, there's no need for no, you's no need for no. You know, uh, listening to the he said she said, yo, you should do this, you should, what do we want to do? And that's how we fused, that's how we came together.
Speaker 2:And it started because me and him came together cool, kim and. And then we joined with a couple of other people. So we had a group. Before that, we had a total group before UMC's even came into existence and it was called MI6. It was like six of us in the group and then even that group disbanded. So out of that group disbanding, me and kim were the two that stuck together and we went our separate ways, while the other two, three artists went their separate ways. We always on a compilation album called rough luxury records, um at the time, and we came out with singles before before we even got signed to wild pitch. So we was already on the incline and we had already broken up from a group of six people and it dwindled down to just the two of us because we had that chemistry and then we became UMCs.
Speaker 3:Undisputed masters of charisma no doubt Tell me where that comes from. It seemed like Staten Island. Dudes love some acronyms too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, we're about the making you think thing. You know what I mean Keeping you on your toes, keeping you just, you know, don't be one-sided, like you know. It's a big world out here. You know what I'm saying? Undisputed master charisma was just one of the uh, how would you call it the acronyms? You know? Blah, blah, blah, um. So it started at Universal MC. All right, so we know what that is. We know that comes from the alphabet. You know what I'm saying? The supreme alphabet, universal. That's you right. Okay, mc, that was it. So now, from Universal MC, we shorten it down to UMCs. So now to get a little creative, while we out here on the road, while we out here doing shows, oh, while we out here spitting these lyrics yo, I'm the Undisputed Master of Charisma. So we just took the UMC and started breaking it down. You know, understanding many concepts. You know, understand my culture. You know it just became that. So it was wordplay, but you know, the UMC was the foundation of all of it foundation of all of it.
Speaker 3:So I can remember the song Blue Cheese from when I was younger, but I've never quite known what it was about and I still don't, so I just know I like the record.
Speaker 2:Funny enough, I still don't either, because I saw an interview with Cool Kim and Kim said one thing thing and it threw me all off. I'm like, wait a minute, that's not what I thought. I thought it meant this, but he had a whole different thing. He said it meant nothing. He said it was just an idea, it was just rhyming for the day and calling it something silly.
Speaker 2:I didn't take it like that and mind you, remember, I'm the producer mind, everything has to make sense to me. You know what I'm saying. So me personally, I don't do nothing just to be doing it. So when we came up with blue cheese, um, yeah, we came up with the title, but for me the meaning was strictly anything that's whack, and if you listen to the lyrics, it really basically says all of that. You know Well, the source of my skill is all real, fashioned to eliminate the weak who are marked with the seal of blue cheese. So anything that's whacked, marked with that seal is garbage. Basura, you know what I mean? It ain't popping. Listen to the chorus which I produced back then Get out, get out, I don't love you. Get out, get out, I don't love you.
Speaker 3:I was going to ask you about the sample, because that sample has been used by someone else as well after you used it, actually, about a year after you used it, if memory serves.
Speaker 2:How did you?
Speaker 3:feel Maybe two.
Speaker 2:I don't know about a year or two. I think it was a little more than that. If we're speaking about the same person, yeah, no, well, there's two people. There's a couple of people who used it. I'm talking about the female with the hit.
Speaker 3:no, I'm talking about the producer that many feel like is the greatest producer of all time yeah, did he produce that for the female? No, that's I mean. That means he used it twice because it starts off his album well, we used that sample way before anybody thought about it. No, I know that's what I'm so I've always wanted to know like your thoughts on that, because it's like you know that that that record lives on in hip-hop annals, but most people don't even know that you guys utilize that sample, like prior to.
Speaker 2:So I'll name them out. It was Dr Dre who used the sample Correct, but then it was Kanye West who used the sample Correct. So Keisha Cole, yeah, and um uh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So, um, that just alerted me that I was on point and I was on time. I feel no way about it. The only I mean the only way I could have felt was did I get recognition of using that sample first? You know what I'm saying. I could have felt sour, I could have felt like, well damn, I did it too. You know what I'm saying, but nobody even realized that it was the same sample, that's one, really, really, it's evident.
Speaker 3:I mean it's just obvious.
Speaker 2:It's like some things are obvious. You're a things are music head, don't get it twisted. You study music, right the average. They didn't realize that's the same sample that was used in blue cheese that's used over here. You know what I'm saying. Not to mention, we didn't have the same popularity. So you know, I don't know how many people heard blue cheese as compared to her, that record and that other record. You know, and the momentum behind those records and you know what I'm saying. So I felt no way. All I knew was okay, I'm part of that, I'm doing something right. That's how I looked at it.
Speaker 2:I'm like I'm doing something right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean they say imitation is the highest form of flattery that you can offer somebody, so sampling a sample first, as opposed to two guys who are often in the greatest producer of all time. Discussions, sometimes between the two of them, is what the modern day argument actually has become. It's pretty striking about your prowess. What artists did you enjoy working with most as a producer? What piece of production are you most proud of?
Speaker 2:most as a producer, or what? What piece of production are you most proud of? That's a hard question because I don't. I don't categorize any one particular piece of work. You know what I mean, and and and say it like that what I can say is the one that actually shed light on who I was. You know what I mean. I'm real happy and grateful for that and appreciative for that, and that was magic stick.
Speaker 2:At the end of the day, that was my biggest, biggest record. You know what I'm saying record. You know what I'm saying. And that's the one that made people understand that. Oh my god, this dude really is a dope producer. Did you hear how he chopped that record that we all had in the crib and nobody thought to use at all? You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:Like that brought the that feeling of OK, this was the best accomplished all around the board. You know not to say that, oh, this is the best record I ever did. I love all the records that I've done. You know what I mean. I take pride in every piece of work that I've done, because every piece of work represents something different. You know this is dope for him, this is dope for her, this is dope for for that group over there. You know what I'm saying. So you know I look at it like that. But the one that brought me the most, you know, accredited acknowledgement and all of that was Magic Stick. And then everybody started reviewing my whole portfolio and still then they started going back to see, oh, this was him too, this was him too. Oh, I didn't. They couldn't put it together because, remember, I did the name switch. Right, people are reading produced by Phantom of the Beat. Who's Phantom of the Beat? Yeah, I don't know that dude.
Speaker 3:And why'd you even use Phantom of the Beat like where did that come from?
Speaker 2:it came from being disgruntled. It came from UMC's was finished and what am I going to do next?
Speaker 3:okay, so I want to do next. Okay, so I want to talk about that too. Like so, fruits of Nature is a success, but Unleashed not so much. Like what is the difference? What were the differences, creatively, between the two albums? Do you feel like the marketing and promotion was appropriate by the record label? Do you feel like the game had just changed on you guys?
Speaker 2:really fast, tell me what your thoughts are of that time period in between albums and then receive, being received very warmly the first time and then not so much the second time around this interview, right here, is going to go as far as it's going to go, and I'm going to make sure that it goes very far, but this, this is something that needs to be really, really cleared up. You know why? Because the masses are feeble. The masses are, and I'm not downplaying people, I'm just telling the truth. People go by what they read, what they see. You know, it's a visual thing, it's what they hear. You know, nobody use what's in between the two ears to. You know, sit there and deduce for a little moment to think about what could have transpired to make situations go that way. Nah, it's just yo, they doing this and they doing that. Ah, that's whack. Ah, we don't like them. That's not what it was. So here's the real explanation behind what happened that you know, the masses need to really, really, really understand youth from the inner city who are the first to graduate high school out of their families, the first to get a record deal out of their families, the first to provide the record labels with the most dopest records, albums that they had to get a $6 million deal with, off of our blood, sweat and tears, our production, our album. And then they say to us, when it's time to do the new album. Nah, we're not going to piece y'all off this $6 million. We did the first album for $15,000 in an attic studio, you understand.
Speaker 2:So at that time we were just happy to be able to have that ability, to have that afforded to us. We could make an album. We're going to sign to a record label. Of course we was happy. You know what I mean. We were young kids. We didn going to sign to a record label. Of course we was happy. You know what I mean. We were young kids. We didn't know any better. You know we're getting away from the nonsense that might've been around us at the time. We get ready to travel, you know we get ready to eat for free, party for free, do shows. So of course we're happy.
Speaker 2:But then, when reality kicks in, so of course we're happy. But then when reality kicks in and you done had a kid and your partner done had a kid and you got to pay these bills to live and you got to sustain your emi, right, they're looking at us like nah, we're not gonna up your budget, we're not gonna give you no more, we're not gonna make sure you're comfortable. But yo, we had a number one record. We did everything for you like. We did all that we could do. You should share. You got to share in them. Spoils for us. Give us a bigger budget for our next album. Let us eat a little bit too. You understand what I'm saying.
Speaker 3:What were you all asking for? If you don't mind me asking.
Speaker 2:Way more than $15,000.
Speaker 1:$15,000? Wow, $15,000. $15,000.
Speaker 3:Wow.
Speaker 1:Like what.
Speaker 3:I'm looking at it Back, then I look at it like if Back then we could have been asking anywhere from $300,000 and a little bit more. I mean that doesn't seem unreasonable. Seeing how you helped secure a $6 million deal, I feel like you know $250 a head can be appropriate and call the day. Is that probably like the train of thought?
Speaker 2:That's the real train of thought, but you're not dealing with the people who have that train of thought.
Speaker 5:Right.
Speaker 1:Right, so when?
Speaker 2:you're dealing with these people who don't have that train of thought, who don't care about how they uh, acquired that deal based on the backs of us. What happens? We get disgruntled, we get angry, we get tight, we get mad, we dissatisfied, we're not eating the right way, but y'all got six mil, so we got to do another album because we in a contract and we're going to get what that ain't. Come on, nobody wants to live like that. We thought you're going to get these meals. We helped you get it. You're going to break us off good and make us comfortable, right, but that wasn't the case. So if that wasn't the case to everybody that's listening now and paying attention, when you're disgruntled, you can't focus right. There's no way I can still make another Fruits of Nature album when my situation is not that.
Speaker 3:Yeah. You understand what I'm saying so on the outside looking in, it got categorized as you guys trying to keep up with times and making music that, quite frankly, had more angst than the previous venture, but it's because there was some sincere angst going on, so it's a reflection.
Speaker 2:It was very sincere. That was the fuck you record. That was I'm not giving you a dope ass album this time. I'm not giving you that real, real, real creative album. This time I'm telling you fuck you right now. On this album, we're saying what we want to say right now, Not what we needed to be saying to the people. We said what the fuck we wanted to say. You know why? Because you got us pissed off. So what you going to do with this album? Okay, let's talk.
Speaker 2:We wasn't looking at keeping integrity to our fans when we had to eat. You understand I'm saying we didn't even understand that. Nah, don't worry about it. Just stay true to yourself. Keep who you are, who you are and we're young, so we don't have that wisdom yet you understand. So you know we expressed ourselves in the album. That's all that was. We didn't try to be anybody else, we wasn't even paying attention to everybody else. Every record on that album was expressing our disgruntledness.
Speaker 3:So that's Shades of here, my Dear, by Marvin Gaye.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 3:Shades of here, my Dear, where he had to pay Anna Gordy X amount. But instead of paying X amount, he donated all the proceeds to his next album and he pretty much made an album talking straight shit about it you get it.
Speaker 2:It's a classic maybe one day at least it'll become a classic when people understand the reasoning behind the move.
Speaker 3:I'm looking at those records totally differently now, even now, with you just like kind of saying that live, because that's not how it comes off to the hip-hop listener. But this is why the story is important, because you all sound legitimately like two different groups. So the core that was invested into the group is probably going to abandon ship, like yeah, they done went somewhere else, like way too fast for us. But now that we're hearing the story about it and a lot had happened between 91 and 94, stylistically, so it really just seemed like y'all were like some OGs trying to keep up with the times when really, you know, we got some financial disparities in terms of how we're supposed to be treated. That's going on.
Speaker 2:It was huge disparities, our main label, which was Wild Pitch. They forsaked us. You know what I mean. And they're the ones who caught the millions. And it wasn't just based on UMCs. They had UMCs, they had Chill Rob G, they had Main Source. They had.
Speaker 1:Gangstar.
Speaker 2:So they were an independent label with all these groups and it caught $6 million from EMI. It did not do nothing for us, the way we deserved it.
Speaker 1:Hold on. They destroyed main source.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you bought up main source. Is that how you met Akanele Nah?
Speaker 2:Akanele's, my cousin.
Speaker 1:Are you serious Wow?
Speaker 3:Serious. So I was going to ask you because you know it's funny, like a hit. I had a friend who was involved in music, like used to work for a record label and he used to tell me he's like you know, one hit will change your life forever. But I realized now that I'm older when he told me that it's like well, that works both ways. It's like it'll make you famous forever and it might even bring you a check forever, but it also may be hinder some of how people perceive you, depending on what type of record it is. I think Akanele's Put it In your Mouth.
Speaker 3:It's a pigeon hold Because he's actually a dope MC. And I was going to ask you what do you think about him as an MC? Because he doesn't actually give enough credit. He is on Live at the Barbecue with Main Source and Nas. That was his debut too, and Ak actually can rap, but because of that song he's been pigeonholed as somebody that's just like a caricature of somebody, but when he can actually rap. So can you like speak to that, because I don't think the audience understands that Akanele is actually a dope MC.
Speaker 1:And he lost the problem. For I see the Corona Queen stand up. That's it.
Speaker 2:All day long, all day long, yeah. So it's weird because so we're Panamanian, right and just I think we were. Yeah, we were out already, and then Main Source was dropping their album, so you had Live at the Barbecue. And I'm hearing this, I'm hearing Nas, I'm hearing Joe Fatal, you know, I hear this kid Akinnelli. I'm like so you know, we grew up as kids and then we moved to Staten Island. Well, they stayed in Queens and ran around Brooklyn all the time. I would go back and forth, but I never knew that he was into rapping. He didn't know I was into it, Real talk.
Speaker 2:No real talk, that's crazy.
Speaker 2:So we didn't see each other, for I want to give a take six, seven years. So by that time we went from that young stage, that young, uh, adolescent, going into, you know, uh, mature, young adult. That's when we came out as rappers. You know, 18, 19, you know. And um, I didn't know he was rapping all that time. He ain't know I was rapping all the time. Like I said, we was a little somewhat in our own world on Staten Island. But when he came out with Live at the Barbecue I said Akanele, there's nobody else named Akanele, who else got that name? You can't confuse that with anything. I said you've got to be kidding me. So he's rhyming with Large Professor and Nas and blah, blah. Next thing you know, with Large Professor and Nas and blah, blah. Next thing you know we're. So that's how the tour the EMI tour happened.
Speaker 2:So now you got Main Source, UMC's Jazz, Jazzo. Yeah, Old Chad Elliott, the whole Nas, all of us on that tour.
Speaker 3:That's crazy, that's the tour.
Speaker 2:You're on that tour.
Speaker 1:That's the tour, the.
Speaker 3:Tech on the Dresser tour. That's the Tech on. I'm about to say that's called the Tech on the Dresser tour. Now, that's the tour.
Speaker 1:That's the tour, that's the tour.
Speaker 2:We were the headliners of that tour.
Speaker 3:Are you serious? That's right, umc. I mean, the record was, the record were big and the record that followed was big too. So I can totally see that.
Speaker 2:Headliners on that. That was the east coast, midwest, west coast tour colleges. We were the headliners on that tour. That's crazy. We stayed in every hotel room that everybody else stayed in. We ran the same blocks out of state that everybody else ran. That was the tour. So that's how you know. Main source akanele, umcs, um, and that's you know who put that tour together, the ones who gave Wild Pitch six million dollars. That was EMI. That was the EMI tour.
Speaker 3:They wanted to make some more money off y'all that was it.
Speaker 2:that was the EMI tour, that was the one. That was the one. This is the one where we running all over the place, now we doing soul train, now we, that's where all of that. This is the one where we running all over the place, now we're doing Soul Train, now we're. That's when all of that, that time frame, that's when all of that was going down. That's right. So yeah, your Chad Elliott, your Irv Gotti, all of us on that bus.
Speaker 1:Everybody Young, irv Gotti, yeah, dj, irv Gotti, crate carrying Irv.
Speaker 3:Gotti. Yeah, dj Irv Gotti Crate carrying Irv Gotti. There you go, dj Crate carrying Irv Gotti.
Speaker 2:Yo, I was wrecked when I got back. When we got back and years later he's like this biggest producer and I'm like god damn it, how the hell did we miss that boat? How did we? I couldn't even get a beat sold to them at all. And I'm like dog, we was all together. Like you're the best of friends when you're on that road together and and you don't even have a snicker ball to eat because your per diem didn't come in yet. You know what I mean. You're best of friends with everybody. But now that new business is popping, you don't know nobody. A whole bunch of that was going on in the industry. My G, that's where all that disgruntledness came in at.
Speaker 3:You know, money and adversity tend to reveal character more than they tend to define it.
Speaker 2:True talk. That was one of the best statements I've heard in a long time, because it's truth it is.
Speaker 3:So I got another question. Did a guy by the name of Prince Rakim take a beat tape from you guys or a beat CD from you guys? Do I have this story correct? Y'all were throwing a party and somebody comes and or a beat CD from you guys? Do I have this story correct? Y'all were throwing a party and somebody comes and takes your beat CD? Never, and didn't you say Wu-Tang first?
Speaker 2:All day. So, we can get to that. We'll get to all that. I'll explain the documentary is Did somebody take the beat CD? Nobody takes my CDs. We'll get to all that. I'll explain the documentary. Did somebody take the beat?
Speaker 3:nobody takes my CDs okay, I'm just asking did the CD transfer hands? I see what you're getting at.
Speaker 2:Okay, I'm just asking questions now here's the real story behind that, and I've told the story a few times and for some reason, surprisingly, it's hard for people to really grasp it. But this is the way that it went. You don't take credit from nobody, but the truth is told. So there's your tour. Right, the EMI tour.
Speaker 2:the truth is told, so there's your tour right the emi tour and we're doing colleges and we're going from florida all the way back upstate, we're going to the midwest, we're going to california. When you're on tours, what do you do? You do you do, uh, dates where you go to the record label. Whoever their representatives are in, whatever area, town, whatever state you're in, you go to the record labels. They prepare you for in-stores, for radio promo, for all of that while you're in town. Correct, correct, because you're on tour. Right, because you're on tour.
Speaker 2:EMI had us set up to do radio. They had us set up to do in-stores. A lot of people probably don't know what in-stores are, but that's when you go to town. You go to the record store that's selling your records. You kick it with them for a little bit. You have the crowd come in, you sign autographs. It's like book signing All of that.
Speaker 2:At one point we had to go to EMI in Cali. That's when you meet and greet the staff at the record labels. They like to be schmooze too. You know they want to. Oh my god, they want to tell their kids. You know who came to the to the label today? Guess who I met. You know blah, blah, blah sign autographs and all of that.
Speaker 2:So while we were leaving um from doing that, they gave us a gift. So the gift that they gave me and my whole team. And my team consisted of myself, Kool, Kim, RNS you got to understand how RNS comes to play RNS and my two homies, Craig and Quazi. They gave us all the original Stax collection CD. You know, with everything from Stax. It was a nice, nice case. They presented it to all of us. They gave us each one. I took mine's home, Kim took his home. Everybody else took theirs home except no, he took his home too. The difference is R&S took his home and you know R&S was producing. But who would be at the house of the producer? Other young dudes who want to learn?
Speaker 3:Other young up-and-coming producers who want to learn.
Speaker 2:That's where we work all the time. So here comes one day that CD pack disappeared from Armaness's house and R finally relinquished. Oh nah, I let Ron hold it. You go listen to the whole Wu album. Every beat is from Stax, from the first album, every beat.
Speaker 3:That's into the Wu-Tang 36 Chambers.
Speaker 2:He raped the whole Stax CD that we brought back from Cali, so nobody took it out of my hands personally, but it was a gift that we were given. That R managed to give it to RZA and RZA just went to town on the whole stacks. So you go check the whole into the 36. Every beat is sampled from stacks and that's from the collection that we brought home do.
Speaker 3:Does anybody still have a copy of that? Do you like? Do you still have your copy?
Speaker 2:that's probably up in my mom's attic somewhere. Um, I got a lot of stuff there. You know she. She holds on to every. I kept a lot of stuff there. You know she holds on to every. I kept a lot of stuff there. You know me. We always on the road, we always moving around and stuff like that. I literally just got my plaques back. You know what I mean that. You know I set up in a new crib and all of that. So you know, dust them off if you want to eat them. You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:I mean you're obviously not like, you know what I mean. Um, you're not like bitter about it because you've done a lot of work with with woo. You've worked with deck. I mean you are the creator of the first single off of supreme clientele, which is apollo kids, with ghost and ray I mean. So, like you, you've done, you've done woo work and woo works. You got it. You've got joints you've done. You've done work and works. You've got it. You've got joints you've done for Ray. So how did those relationships get forged? I heard you and Ghost lived in the same building. Did I hear that right? Definitely.
Speaker 2:So I mean you got to think you just got up and coming teams and up and coming crews at the same time. You know what I mean. Some people click with others. This one click with that. Some people got these ideas. These guys don't want to go with those ideas. We want to go with our own ideas, you know. But we're all coming up, it's school. We're all coming up from kindergarten, first grade, second grade. You know, this semester, while these guys all caught A's. You know what I mean. It is that's all this is. But in the interim, throughout that whole process, everybody knows everybody, everybody's coming in on what everybody else is doing. You know these guys got their own plan. We got our plan, but we still cool. So this is why we afford it.
Speaker 2:We was able to say Wu-Tang in our first album before Wu-Tang came out, because Wu-Tang started out in Stapleton, where I lived at. So Wu-Tang was a Wu-Tang group. At first, wu-tang was something that we would say Wu-Tang was. It was just our way of being until RZA took it and turned it into the Wu-Tang clan. Wu-tang was our slang, wu-tang was. It started in Stapleton with me, r&s, even Ghost. You know that was just. You know we used to drink 40 ounces. You know what I mean. We used to call it Wu-Juice. You know what I'm saying. Like, these developments started way before you heard of the Wu-Tang Clan See. So now the Wu-Tang Clan. See. So now the Wu-Tang Clan takes it somewhere different. You know, after studying the scope of the land, you know the first ones that break in are the ones that's going to catch the bullets first. You know how it goes in war.
Speaker 2:If you're the first one to break the line, you're gonna get hit up first. That's crazy. That's what I was about to make the way for the ones to come, come in and bum rush everything right.
Speaker 3:I mean, you're definitely a trailblazer. I was gonna ask you do you like you embrace your role as a trailblazer? Because I'm of the belief, like that, wu-tang clan is the greatest rap group that ever lived, and it appears that they were influenced by who came before them directly, which was you.
Speaker 2:I believe that they are the greatest rap group that ever lived. Yeah, there's a point in time where I was never bitter. I was never bitter, I was never salty, I was never spiteful, never, ever. That never crossed my mind. The thing that really rang, you know, that resonated with me, was what's wrong with this timing? You understand what I'm saying. Why wasn't I on that timing? Oh right, when I was doing all of this right prior, two years prior, two, three years prior. So that's what bothered me I'm trying to figure out. So was I supposed to, back then, just get down with RZA and Meth? And we all worked at Statue of Liberty, we all. But you've been known these guys, you understand what I'm saying. So that's what bothered me, and it had nothing to do with them. It had more to do with me and my relationship with my higher self. To figure out what was it that I did that? You know I wasn't included in that. But then I realized but guess what? You know sometimes.
Speaker 2:You know, the gratitude isn't how much you shine or how much you know you're recognized, or how much you know the people want to call your name out. It's a silent gratitude, whereas I was an inspiration. I take that to heart. I was an inspiration and my moves were solid. Every move I made was a solid move. You know, I never had no drama with no one in this game like that. You know what I'm saying. I mean, you know issues popped up here and there, but I'm saying as a person. You know one-on-one with different individuals. I was always a cool dude and I just took what I did and I kept it moving, which allowed me.
Speaker 2:Now, when they need that hit, who do they start coming to? Who did Ghost come to for that record? You understand what I'm saying. Who did Kappa come to for their records? Who did Debt come to for that album? You understand what I'm saying? So I never had anything other than gratitude for the fact of who I am, and I recognize my position. My position was to spark a flame. You know what I mean, and whether it went one way or the other or I never expected it, or I didn't see it coming, or however it manifested, that's God's will. You know what I mean. That's what happened. And after that, I'm still you. You know I still got my accolades because I went on to do other things that I wanted to do. You know, and that's, that's where that's at I'm.
Speaker 3:I'm a firm believer that the person who often starts generational wealth isn't the person who amasses the wealth. They lay the pipeline and the foundation for the wealth to be amassed and somebody actually has to make that sacrifice. So I look at it as like also a sacrifice that you made, because really, if you really look at it, it's like well, if what you did paved the path for what I believe is the greatest run of hip hop music that we got in a three to in a four year period, essentially, like, if you help spark that run, that's just as important as the run to me, because that means the run doesn't exist if you don't exist.
Speaker 2:You articulate it much more better than you know what I did, and I held back because I didn't want to be or sound pompous in that regard.
Speaker 3:I'll do that for you. You don't got to worry about that. I'm very well known. You don't have to worry about that.
Speaker 2:I think I alluded to it when I said the first one through the gate, through the war gate, got to take the bullets. That's what I was definitely saying. We want to take them shots first and open it up. By the time they're reloading, y'all supposed to be able to run through and smash.
Speaker 3:I want to get back to Queens for a minute because I'm fascinated by the fact that you're the guy who produced Rotten Apple for 50. I'll look at Rotten Apple 50, that's. That's 50s kickoff into the 50 that we know, because that's the first actual record like full song that gets played on guess who's back, which is really where 50 reintroduced himself again. Did you have to record in canada, like legend says, because 50 was being blackballed inside of new york studios and okay, so that is just rumor it was nothing like that.
Speaker 2:As a matter of fact, I wasn't even there when he recorded the record. Do you understand what I'm saying? Like, this is the thing about media and the things about these interviews and the he sayers and the she sayers, and you know, people don't know the real stories behind any of this b you know it was a lot going on at the time. Um, I ran into 50 through track masters way before 50 was, you know, on that rise he was?
Speaker 5:with.
Speaker 2:Lighties, you know what I mean Violator, and they were trying to figure out what to do with him. You know he was with Track. Masters. They didn't know what to do with him. I had a meeting with him.
Speaker 3:But he was signed to Columbia. So Columbia had Nas, they had Tony Poe and all of them.
Speaker 2:He was doing all the hits for everybody, but that was a 50s niche at that time. You know what I mean. He figured out what he wanted to do on his own, because they were moving too slow with him. They're not giving him the records that he wanted.
Speaker 2:I literally was there on the humble. I don't know who I was up there for, but I was up there to do something with another artist. I had to meet with the A&R and do something, and while I was there I ran into Rich Nice and they were like yo, 50's going to be up here in a second. Our artists, we need you to. You know, you got beats on you. Of course I got beats on me, let's go. So you know, I go in another room, I'm waiting for 50 to come. Time goes by, he ain't show. They asked me to leave them a demo tape, cd at that time. So I leave them a CD with a couple of joints on it. You know what I mean. And then they got back to me. It was like yo, he likes this, he likes this, and blah, blah, blah. So that's when all bulls started rolling. Now, mind you, nothing happened still. But this was this, but this was starting and then, probably like a year later, when he finally just didn't want to deal with track masters and he started doing his thing with his mixtapes and all that.
Speaker 2:Now my cousin is his DJ. There it is. One of my cousins is his DJ. There it is, one of my cousins is his DJ. So you'll see my cousin's name under Phantom of the Beat, produced by, but you'll see Giz. You'll see produced by Boo Hoo, which is my brother. You'll see produced by Mike Slizzo, which is my other brother. The umbrella is Phantom of the Beat, but you'll see, produced by Mike Slizzo, which is my other brother, the Umbrella is Phantom of the Beat. But you'll see these names when you look at different records. You know what I mean. Who produced this record? Who produced this record? Yeah, I oversee whatever, but my whole, I got a crew of producers. You know what I'm saying? Right, the records I produce. You know exactly which ones I produce, but we produce many more records than just the ones that you've heard you know.
Speaker 3:So that's that was well. That's why I was about to ask you, because it's like you knew 50 before the after bath interscope deal and you obviously did magic stick with him. So you've had a relationship with him for a long time. So I was going to ask you how many tracks have you done with 50?
Speaker 2:I want to say, because not everything that you do comes out Right.
Speaker 3:No, that's why I'm asking how many have you done?
Speaker 2:I want to say we probably did about four, four or 50 joints. You know what I mean. But you heard right in Apple, you know, and you heard magic stick. So two for four, yeah, and that's a good, that's a good.
Speaker 3:In baseball. That's 500 in baseball.
Speaker 2:One was the beginning and one was the whole run.
Speaker 3:Okay. So I say all the time on this show that I think 50 is the greatest hook writer of all time in rap. What are your thoughts on that? Is there a better hook writer than 50 that you can give me? Because I like to hear it from producers, because producers tend to be like more melodic and musically inclined and more to the full composition of the song than the person who's like rapping over it. So so the producer side of you, when I say that 50 is the greatest hook writer ever, do you have somebody for me?
Speaker 2:It kind of depends. I got three. That's in my top for writing hooks. You might not agree, but 50, Mobb Deep and Busta Mobb Deep.
Speaker 1:Busta, definitely Busta.
Speaker 2:I thought you were going to say Meth nah, nah, he's slick with it, but I'm talking, so I picked Mobb Deep because they're a group, correct. I like their group balance with the choruses. Their choruses were. They were step choruses. You know what I mean. Dop Father, part 3 we can repeat all their choruses.
Speaker 1:Anthems.
Speaker 2:Big anthems. So that's why. I say Mobb Deep, but Busta Chorus King Like, and then 50.
Speaker 3:So that's funny because I actually had a Busta Rhymes question or a question involving Busta Rhymes, a like a question like involving Busta Rhymes. A lot of people don't know that he was first in a group called Leaders of the New School. Yeah. My older cousins used to tell me all the time that fundamentally early on, Charlie Brown was actually a better emcee than Busta Rhymes. What is your take on?
Speaker 2:that Early we toured with Charlie. Charlie was dope. What is your take on that Early? Charlie was dope, but I think Charlie was more focused at the time. I'm not going to say he was a better MC, I think he was just so more focused and so more geared. You know what I mean. But Sutton snapped inside of Buster. That just superseded everything. You know what I mean. Like he just took off. But Charlie was dope, Dinko's dope, All three as leaders of the new school. They were all dope. Buster always stood out, though, because he's a character yeah yeah school. They were all dope. Buster always stood out, though because he's a character.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yo. You see the best piece of fruit amongst all of them. You know what I mean. You know which one's the ripest and ready to go. You could tell, no matter what it's like, he just stood out all around. He was such a people person. You know if, if, maybe that's what overwhelmed or captivated you know what I mean everybody else to thinking that, um, he's the best at the time. But I know he stood out from the beginning, regardless of anything. I can't say if he was the better MC or not. All I know is I liked him for his character. I liked him so much for that, you know.
Speaker 3:Okay, so we got to get out of here in a second, but I know that you have why, why, why Well? You know, actually I was actually thinking I want to do this again because I'm not done asking questions, but I would love to take some time to reconnect.
Speaker 2:We ain't even getting to what the scope for Phantom of the Beat is right now. You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:Well, actually I wanted to ask you about a couple of those things before we get out of here. I didn't say we were getting out of here just yet, but I did want to ask you about your work with the American Jazz Museum in St Louis, missouri, and what you currently have going on artist and production-wise. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:That's a blessing. In disguise, my manager, gina Tarantino, is from out there. So you know this whole thing is six degrees of separation. You know I want people just to know that part in life in general. That's what life is all about. You know people think it's more than just basically how you carry yourself, how you conduct yourself, who you meet along the way and what type of relationship you can develop. You know what I mean on your way to your dreams and your beliefs and your destiny.
Speaker 2:So the Jazz Museum is just one of those things that I was out there for Hip Hop 50th. I was in KC for that. You know we didn't really do much as UMCs. So I was out there and they had a Hip Hop 50th out there, which Tech N9ne appeared, a lot of the local artists appeared and Miss Tarantino, she was a curator Well, I don't want to say curator. She put together the hip hop cypher for Kansas City. So the new, up and coming artists, it was about five, six of them. She put together that portion of the show five, six of them. She put together that portion of the show and I did the track for that portion of the show that everybody came and spit flames to. So here you come, here we go. Now I'm involved in KC, you understand what I'm saying. So that locked a lot of situations into place. So the Jazz Museum you know we're at the Gem Theater where the event was being held for Hip Hop 50th.
Speaker 2:Gina knows, I guess, what you call Mr James. You know he runs everything. So you know there's that connection. And I did the music for the Hip Hop 50th and you know he runs everything. So you know there's that connection. And I did the music for the hip-hop 50th and you know you meet, you greet, you talk and then now it's. You know what do you do? You know who I am, you know what I do. How can we make this work? Let's do it. You know what I mean. So we just we took it back and forth in that manner, you know, while, uh, tarantino 1440 was spearheading the, the relations and the connection and making things happen. So there's a, there's going to be a few things that happens out there.
Speaker 2:As far as phantom of the beat is concerned, with kc, um and and the label itself, I have phantom music. So over the last few years I was dropping singles. You know it hasn't been on the highest of PR or marketing. It was more or less a litmus test for me. I just wanted to gather up a couple of artists, see what I could do, see if I'm ready to run a label, see what being an executive is like, and I figured it out. So come this year it's going to be a whole new blast because it's a litmus test. I tried it out first. I wanted to see what it is to deal with artists, to say they're my artists and I got to take care of their every step and, you know, make sure that the moves are delegated properly, and you know I gotta have different hats on at the same time. You know what I'm saying. Um, so I went through that trial for the last three, four years and now phantom music is about to really really sprout. New production is coming.
Speaker 2:I don't sleep. Don't sleep on me neither. Even though the tides have turned and the music sounds a little different, there's still room to breathe for what we know how to do, even if it's just tweaking it a little bit, but still capturing the ears. You know what I mean, the way we need to capture these ears right now. So I don't let none of that press me. What's going on. I know we're going to. We got a lane. We're going to come through with that lane and you know, every so often music changes. You don't know who's going to be the one to change it. I might be ripe enough right now to be the one to change the whole thing. If you search my history, I've been doing that. You understand what I'm saying. I've been setting little moods here and there. And you know making things switch.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean. Drift over here a little bit more than that way you understand what I'm saying. So now I think I'm'm just gonna take the bull by the horns, I'm gonna take the reins and I'm really, really gonna step in and exert myself on another level right now what's, what's the first project we can help.
Speaker 3:Uh, hope to hear from you next, like, like, what's the next project or the next artist project that you're working on? Like, like, literally, what's what's in the queue? Like, right now, what's cooking right now?
Speaker 2:I think the next thing that I'm going to do, based on the fact that I dropped a few artists over the past few years, I put them out. I might do a whole phantom music ep and reintroduce something new, maybe a couple of joints that people skipped, missed, didn't catch. But I think the EP collaboration you know production-wise, me producing these artists and breaking them is what's going to be the next thing that I do. So Phantom Music EP and keep a lookout. There's going to be a couple of artists. We got Catherine Swain, we got Young Solo, we got Scritchmatic, to name a few. We got Long Island. Long Island is the next step from Staten Island. We on either side of the city. You know what I'm saying. So I got my artist, snoop Daly, out from Long Island and you're just going to see. We're going to start developing and putting artists out the way we remember how to do it. But with the present twist to it you know what I'm saying and that's basically where we're headed. You know we'm saying that's basically where we're headed we got a couple of companies in the works that are really, really vying for our attention.
Speaker 2:Me personally, I feel like it's like wine you get better with time. I'm an Aries. I did my research, research, a lot of the, a lot of the the most brilliant, famous or forget famous, just renowned, successful aries. Aries really didn't bang until they were in there. You know they their fun mad early. But when they hit that age where they could see clear which was up in age, I'm ripe right now. I think this is a time it took a lot of lessons. It took a lot of trial and error. I had some great accomplishments, but there's a lot more to come, I think, with the knowledge that that I've, the wisdom that I've gained is going to allow me to sit at the seat where I need to be sitting at.
Speaker 3:I think the strongest thing, in my opinion, that you said during this interview was actually what you just said a few minutes ago, when you said it took you three to four years just to get comfortable in this role, in this aspect. Because for somebody that's been in the game for as long as you have and been versed so many different ways on so many different things like you've been the artist, you've been the rapper, you've been the producer, you've been the stage performer, you've been the behind the scenes I think what I'm learning is that part of what we have a problem with quality wise with music, is that people don't respect the process anymore and nobody's really actually willing to go through the process to develop an actual mastery of something. When you said it took you three to four years, I'm like well, that's just like getting a college degree in something.
Speaker 3:Yeah, because in order to actually master a craft at something. It's not something that can be created in a vacuum of 90 to 120 days, or even 180 days. It's something that you actually have to craft over the course of time, just like getting a PhD, just like getting a master's, just like getting an undergrad bachelor's.
Speaker 2:You have to appreciate every aspect of this process. It's learning, it's growing, it's learning. It don't happen overnight. You know what I mean. It don't happen overnight, and that's what a lot of people you know. That's the the, the misconnect, that's what they're shooting for that's what they're shooting for.
Speaker 2:They're shooting for it to happen overnight, instead of respecting the process right now society is is is brainwashing people into believing that it could happen. Like that. You know what I mean like it's it's not real or it's not going to be of substance. How about that? It happens overnight, it's fly by night. I could tell you five records off the top of my head that's still banging the club that came out in the 90s, that came out in the. You understand what I'm saying. That's longevity records. I can't tell you one record from yesterday that I'm going to remember a month or two from now. Do?
Speaker 2:you understand what I'm saying.
Speaker 3:I don't know about the 90s, I don't know about the 90s, but I know they still play Magic Stick down here, so of course you know the 90s, every BN Rock came for president.
Speaker 2:What you can't put that in a club and it still pop. No, you're right, the show Slick, rick, it still pops. There's records like that that still pop to this day, that are never forgotten, but there's records that just came out, maybe two years ago, three years ago. That's forgotten already. It's's like you know what I mean. So I'm here for the longevity, I'm here for the, the official stamp, I'm here to, you know, make waves. You know what I mean. Switch it up a little bit. Everybody's on Kendrick right now. You know and that's a sample that sat in everybody's crib too who's producers and nobody ever touched it. You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:But he sparked it at the right time the best moments are always when it's right in front of you the whole time and somebody takes it and makes you go, wow, it was right in front of us the whole time well, that only goes to show me that guess what at least I'm on the right frequency.
Speaker 2:You know what I'm saying. Whether I hit it first or somebody else hit it, I'm on that frequency too. So it's just a matter of time before that thing that I want to hit comes again. You know what I'm saying? It ain't nothing before that thing that I want to hit comes again. You understand what I'm saying.
Speaker 3:It ain't nothing you just the only thing that's going to hurt you is quitting. Ooh, I think people needed to hear that, like that's a gem right there. The only thing that's going to hurt you is quitting. Oh, okay, sean, you got anything? Before we wrap up.
Speaker 1:No, I appreciate this as a a fan. I just wanted to listen in and just really get the vibration. You know we talked on the station a few months ago. You shared some jewels there. We definitely dropped some jewels here with my man Cole. We definitely appreciate you. We just gotta do a part two and three yeah, yeah, we're gonna have to do another.
Speaker 3:We're scratching the surface right now. We're scratching the surface right now appreciate you.
Speaker 1:We just got to do a part two and three. We're going to have to do another. We're scratching the surface right now. We need to do a part two and part three to this.
Speaker 2:I think a lot is about to bubble. It's going to start off with that documentary. By the way, shout out to Carl and Lou. Carl is my junior high school homeboy. He's the one who did that documentary, his homeboy from 6th grade. So he he pinned the story down from the beginning. So we was talking this in 6th grade, all of this, all of it. So y'all seen the vision early. We was talking this in sixth grade, all of this. That's crazy All of it.
Speaker 3:That's crazy.
Speaker 2:So y'all seen the vision early, way early. I mean me and him. We won the city social studies fair for the boroughs. We was always on that. You understand what I'm saying. But I went off to do the music and he became the historian behind the music and you know what better place for him to you know, write about than that? He was in the backyard of it all. That's his home. He documented everything from the beginning.
Speaker 3:Everything. I thoroughly enjoyed the documentary and I learned a whole lot. I didn't know MC Light's first DJ was from. Staten Island.
Speaker 2:I didn't know he was from Staten Island and Park Hill, park Hill yeah yeah, I didn't know. I didn't know he was from staten island in park hill like k rock, yeah, park hill yeah, k rocks.
Speaker 3:Like you know, on mc, like uh, on her album she's got a whole song dedicated to k rock yeah, yeah, yeah so it's like there's a lot of special stuff going on um um in staten island, and always has been.
Speaker 3:We wanted to thank you for coming on. I definitely would love to like have you back so we can continue this conversation. You're a wealth and a resource of knowledge. You've said a lot of things that I feel like people who are always on the outside looking in on hip-hop and how things go. They need to hear these things too, especially in these days and times.
Speaker 2:It's never what it seems the one thing about us as people. We got to stop taking what media says to heart and believing. I was raised to be independent. I was raised to make my own decisions, make my own choices. Deal with people for who they are, not because somebody said they're an asshole. You know what I mean. You don't know what made that person an asshole to them, but to you they're a different person. You understand what I'm saying. So learn to do your research. Learn to stop taking. You know verbatim everything that you hear. You know we're scientists by nature. You know, what.
Speaker 2:I mean that's right. We're supposed to think and use our mind, not be told everything and just take it for what's being said or what you think it is what's being said or what you think it is, and back to that, and I'm not going to stay, I'm not going to hold you. But you know, that was one thing that really needed to be cleared up and that's the thing that you know. For somebody else it could have haunted them forever and that was the oh. They tried to come out sounding hard or yo, why they try to switch up. It was not none of that. That was two young, starving, disgruntled, disappointed men who did not care what they put out. And that was for the label, not for the audience. We weren't thinking about the audience.
Speaker 2:Maybe one or two times we thought about the audience in that album and it was the real display and time to set it straight. We took truth in that. You know what I mean. Now listen to the title. Time to set it straight. We talk truth in that. You know what I mean. Now listen to the title. Time to set it straight.
Speaker 3:Right, no, I told you, I'm looking at it totally differently. Now that you've shared these things, you have a whole different lens now.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. You know, there was a lot of experiences that we went through and we didn't care about being so creative. We just wanted to spit it out. You know what I mean. Whatever they're going to do, they're going to do, they're going to drop us. They're going to drop us, we're going to go get another. Whatever the tides turned, the way they turned, and we are who we are right now, doing what we're supposed to do. Still.
Speaker 3:I think that's a great way to leave it. Um, we want to thank for having you on. I salute you, shout out to hashi, phantom of the beats, all your contributions to this culture, all the inspiration that you provided. We're definitely going to be getting back in touch with you soon. Like to wrap up and do this again. I was actually thinking, man, I'd just like to have you come on and talk some rap shit like every like, like I don't know what it doesn't look like I don't program the show I'm a co-host I'm a good co-host.
Speaker 2:I'm good with that. I dig it.
Speaker 3:No, no, I think we should, like you know, we're, um, we're about to uh start doing our brunch on sundays and start doing like wrap ups for like albums and reviews. We need to like really seriously talk about having you like come on and like give your critique, like you know, like yeah we need a breakdown.
Speaker 1:I love you need a breakdown. We need a breakdown of Miguel Sanchez. Miguel Sanchez joined up with More Fish with Tribe to God. We need that breakdown. We need that breakdown. See that those are songs that tribe to God we need that breakdown.
Speaker 2:We need that breakdown. See, those are songs that you know what I mean. What Chic Looch and Ghost?
Speaker 1:Yes, we need those breakdowns, we need all of those breakdowns.
Speaker 2:I want to see the show elevate. I want to see everything keep going, because this is what positivity is about. This is what maintaining the culture and teaching the ones who really don't know. This is what this is about, right here. So you know, continue blessings, whatever you need, I'm here for it. We're going to keep an eye out for each other.
Speaker 3:Absolutely yes yes.
Speaker 1:Salute.
Speaker 3:Salute, Haas.
Speaker 1:Appreciate you, brother. Thank you Anytime. No doubt.
Speaker 2:Appreciate, you Appreciate that Yo.
Speaker 3:I don't say this too often. That was great.
Speaker 1:Salute to you, brother. As a fan, I just wanted to sit back because you know we did the thing with him on Stationhead. I just wanted to sit back and just hear y'all vibe out and everything you was hitting. I'm like looking at my nose like damn, did he just look at my fucking nose from over there, because everything was in sequence bro.
Speaker 3:He was leading me into my questions for me without me having to ask the questions. Yes, like half the questions that I asked. Yes, it was on point he led me into my questions, Like when he brought up Buster. It's like, oh shit. It's like I actually have a Buster question sitting like in the chamber. I'm like, well, I'm going to go ahead and let it go. Yes, Well, I'm going to go ahead and let it go. Yes, hey Jizzle.
Speaker 5:Hey.
Speaker 1:Jizzle.
Speaker 5:What's going on? Peace, gentlemen.
Speaker 1:Yes, sir, yes sir, Salute the coop man.
Speaker 3:Hold on. Is that a Mets? Is that Mets? Are you wearing New York Mets?
Speaker 1:Wow, that's not talking about. Queens get the money, queens get the money.
Speaker 3:Queens get the money. As an Atlanta Braves fan, I can no longer do this podcast. I'm leaving the show to you two. I can't go.
Speaker 5:Oh no, I rock with the Braves. I used to watch baseball with my granddad all the time. That was his squad during the you know, the Justice and Bail Yard era and all that. You know what I'm saying. Pendleton, all them boys. So you know I rock with Atlanta too.
Speaker 3:That vomit color green is making my eyes hurt, is that?
Speaker 5:bad. You know what I'm saying. I had to kill it today. You know what I'm saying. You know, what I'm saying. Sean got the shoes. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:That's cute, those are cute.
Speaker 5:You know what?
Speaker 3:I'm saying those are cute. You know what I'm saying. Did you call this?
Speaker 1:man, she was cute. My daughter would love those, she's 12.
Speaker 5:I mean Sean just faking because his collection ain't like mine.
Speaker 4:He's not like us over here, so this is a third.
Speaker 5:Nah, but for real though, like dope interview. You know part of my tardiness or whatever you know. I'm sorry I missed most of that, but yo, that was fire for real. Shout out to Hasaji for pulling up. That was dope.
Speaker 1:For real I had a good time.
Speaker 3:Definitely was a good time to be had, so how? Are we kicking off today, Sean.
Speaker 1:What are we doing? I want to go on a quick rant about this. Bronny James, yo listen.
Speaker 3:I'm disappointed. Hold on, no, nick, talk first. So we're going west before we're going east. Kendrick's been influencing all of y'all. We're going west before we're going east. Okay, go ahead, have at it.
Speaker 1:Go ahead.
Speaker 3:No, no, no. While you do that I didn't want to do this in front of Haas, because I knew this interview was going to go well, shout out to Tarantino. Tarantino we appreciate you. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1:We definitely need to continue to connect. Thank you so much for Tarantino. Absolutely, I don't want to jump. I don't want to stay on too long pause because I just want to that. I don't want to stay on the too long pause because I just want to get Dang it, that was crazy, wasn't it? I just want to say hey G, what do you think? Ag, I see you Pause. Shout out to Dipset Couture. Shout out to Killer. Appreciate that hat for real. Yo, I'll be back in two seconds Just.
Speaker 3:oh, my God.
Speaker 1:Yo real talk boy. Shout out to Killer and Dipset Couture Shout out to them it is what it is. Yeah, we connected, man. I don't think they saw that.
Speaker 5:What was that Yo?
Speaker 1:Shout out to Killa man for real. We got connections everywhere. We got connections everywhere Coop's left the set. Coop left the set.
Speaker 3:That's a good thing. That's just ridiculous. No, I didn't leave the set, I just needed a moment to breathe.
Speaker 1:We got connections everywhere. Man Shout out to Dipset Couture Shout out to Killer Ridiculous. This is ridiculous. I just touched down this is supposed to be an organized show. Yo, t2,. I got to, bro. I got to. That's why I got that hat man. I had to make sure You're talking to T2?
Speaker 3:This has gone left. Don't talk to T2. Wow, he's a wild dude man. Yo, that's a wild boy. That's a wild boy, he's a wild boy.
Speaker 1:Yo, but I don't want to stay on it too long for real, because I know people want to hear us talk about this list. Yo, NBA is messing up man.
Speaker 3:The NBA is on some crazy stuff, man.
Speaker 1:How's the NBA messing up? Adam Silver is letting the inmates run the building right now.
Speaker 3:The inmates. This is mostly black men. Are you calling the black men in the NBA inmates?
Speaker 1:This is wild. Yo man, listen me. That's how you look at them, that's how you look at it.
Speaker 5:He's like stern would never stern would never.
Speaker 1:Stern would never stern gives shades. Of plantation owner too, yo stern would be like yo, you're. You guys are not drafting, bronny, let him go to Australia and play a ball if you want to go play.
Speaker 5:It was a wasted pick man. It was a wasted pick.
Speaker 1:The fact that Rich Paul came out two hours prior and told the other teams, if you draft him, he's going to play in Australia, so you're wasting your draft. That's crazy. We can't confirm that.
Speaker 3:Is there confirmation of that?
Speaker 1:Yes, we got confirmation, coop.
Speaker 3:We got confirmation.
Speaker 1:I want to see the confirmation. Look, the Atlanta Hawks had a terrible pick. The whole draft is jacked up. Everything is jacked up in the draft. The NBA is bad. I wish my little cubs would have stayed in school one more year. If GG Jackson would have stayed one more year at USC he would have been top five, top ten. Who GG Jackson With the Memphis last year?
Speaker 3:Oh, okay, sean, let me submit something to you. I don't want to hear it. I don't want to hear it.
Speaker 1:I don't want to hear it. Mdma sick yo no.
Speaker 5:I know why Coop's getting ready to cape for this? Because he's happy about that, reddick hire, he's happy about that, jj Reddick hire. Don't do it, coop, you about to cape for that. Jj Reddick hire, don't do it, you bought the cake for that.
Speaker 3:J J Reddick, don't do it, no.
Speaker 3:I wasn't even coming from this place. This Like, gentlemen, don't you understand? When I talk about white privilege and I talk about I'm not saying that I have a problem with the privilege. I have a problem with the whiteness of the privilege, not the privilege. This is a little black priv. This is what I'm talking about. This is the priv that I'm talking about. He got the biggest cup of priv in the world and he sippeth from the cup. His cup runneth over with the priv, and I'm not talking about Hennessy. It's beautiful because white people have been doing this forever. They have been putting their sons in positions that they don't deserve to be in since the dawn of this country. We're going to sip from this priv. Everybody runneth over today. I hope one day that my daughter is unqualified enough to get paid millions of dollars to do something she has no business doing.
Speaker 1:Like yes, I want a cup of the priv.
Speaker 3:Bring my daughter down here and tell her to bring the biggest cup in the house. I want the cup to run us over with the priv Unqualified enough is crazy, we need to switch topics immediately immediately expeditiously cup runneth over with the priv today.
Speaker 1:Look at that priv being served up right in front of everybody just slap him in the face with a bow in front of everybody. I'm. Slap him in the face with a bow In front of everybody. I'm like yo, this kid.
Speaker 5:I'll leave you at that, not for nothing, espn going to eat for the next year, for the next year, two years that LeBron is in the league.
Speaker 3:Two years that LeBron is in the league, but it'll be all jokes aside, it'll be a train wreck.
Speaker 1:You've got it Okay, so on a basketball level.
Speaker 3:let me submit this to you he would have been better off getting drafted by a Dallas or a Golden State or a Sacramento or a Milwaukee, because those guys have Damian Lillard, de'aaron Foxh, curry kairi, irvin, oklahoma city, shea gillius, alexander somebody there, somebody his size, who is a dominant, impactful player that can actually teach him how to play his position for his size, because your dad, athletically speaking, is one of the three to five most astonishing things that we've ever seen in the sport of basketball, just by athletic attributes, because 6'9 niggas did way too 60. Well, they don't run and pass and jump like that now, do they?
Speaker 1:Yo cool, you being nice right now. He would have been better off getting drafted by the Alabama Moccasins. That's the G League team. They could use him. The Alabama Water Moccasins could use him. This is wild Off the bench, shooting guard. Give me a Alright, my bad.
Speaker 3:This is why we're afraid. This is why we're afraid. I want to go back to the interview now. My bad, this is why we're afraid. This is why we're afraid. I want to go back to the interview now he's wild. Somebody read the Super Chess.
Speaker 1:Let's get the Super Chess real quick. My bad fellas, I had to get off my chest. Rick Ross, Ronnie James, Adam Silver.
Speaker 5:Put Tatum on the list. Y'all seen on social media Tatum stealing everybody's bars. Yo Tatum is going wild right now. He's going crazy right now.
Speaker 1:I can deal with that, though I can handle it.
Speaker 3:I like it when Duke players win NBA championships.
Speaker 1:Nasty work man.
Speaker 3:It's going to be quiet.
Speaker 1:Yo Magic said you should say that in every opening episode, hip hop sauce. We got connections everywhere we do. We got connections everywhere. We got mad stuff lined up. Right now, again, dip second. So, killer, appreciate you. Jermaine Johnson, white men have been doing nepotism for centuries. Absolutely, and they will continue to do so. That's not my gripe here. Jermaine Johnson also said the Belichick, reed, shanahan boys are NFL coaches because of who their daddy is. Luke Walton got an NBA head coaching job because of who his daddy is. I do not disagree. I agree with all of you. All right, cool, blow it up.
Speaker 3:I can't wait till Scottie Pippen's kid coming to the league. You know, if Michael Jordan's kids would have been around during social media, these niggas would have had careers.
Speaker 1:Pippen's kid ain't getting in the league Not lost to Pippen's son. He ain't getting in the league. Not lost to Pippen's kid.
Speaker 5:I think Marcus Jordan's stats was better than Bronny's.
Speaker 1:My stats are better than Bronny's.
Speaker 3:I play small forward.
Speaker 5:This nigga out here talking he out here talking like Al Bundy.
Speaker 3:I scored 40 points in a high school basketball game, oh.
Speaker 1:God, four touchdowns Down it up. High-low offense, not the high-low.
Speaker 3:Did you say the high-low Yo go? To the next topic no, I refuse to live my life this way.
Speaker 5:I don't believe Sean played man Sean. Could nobody post Sean up? Somebody be in the post shop and be like yo. Pause, pause, pause.
Speaker 1:Well, that predates pause.
Speaker 3:What about the Knicks? Since you want to sit up here and wear this tacky-ass Mets jersey and you want to sit up there and rep, corona Queens and talk about Queens get the money all the time. How about the Knicks? We haven't won an NBA championship since any of us have been alive, but it looks like for the first time since Patrick Ewing was in his prime. Yeah, yeah, they haven't won anything while we've been alive.
Speaker 1:You're a Hornets fan.
Speaker 3:Whoa, whoa. I'm an Atlanta Hawks fan. I know how to lose gracefully that makes it worse.
Speaker 1:I was shooting you a bail. That makes it worse.
Speaker 3:I grew up on Dominique, so I was a Hawks fan before the Hornets even existed, even though my family's from Charlotte and I lived in Charlotte. I never really switched teams like that, but I can tell you some stories.
Speaker 1:I got to think of Dominique right there. Matter of fact, me and Dominique had a joint a couple years ago.
Speaker 3:My mom met Dominique at Club 21 one night and came in at 4 o'clock in the morning and had his autograph on a napkin and taped it to my Dominique poster. I'm not joking, Because she knew it was my favorite player. So it's like 4 o'clock in the morning. I'm like yo, what's going on? She's like I got Dominique's autograph. I was like, oh, I jumped up. I was like, yeah, she's like. Oh, I jumped up. I was like, yeah, she's like, I'm just going to put it on the poster for you. I'm like the clock is like 4.03.
Speaker 1:I'm like hold on what is this nigga doing.
Speaker 3:You know what that is crazy, but I had Dominique's autograph. I had Dominique's autograph hanging over my bed from the time I was about five to I was about nine.
Speaker 1:Half napkin is crazy, though, half napkin.
Speaker 3:Not a full napkin, half napkin. That is crazy. Look, and he used to sign it and put number 21 on it.
Speaker 1:Oh shit, yo spend that Dominique on a half napkin who got the S-curl drip on the napkin.
Speaker 3:Always had a low cut or a bald head, even young.
Speaker 1:Yo, that is crazy. No.
Speaker 5:Dominique's S-curl drip, not yours.
Speaker 1:Who got S-curl?
Speaker 3:There was probably a little perm on the napkin. There was probably some perm on the napkin Yo.
Speaker 1:It's a Club 21 napkin.
Speaker 3:It was a high-quality napkin. Club 21 wasn't a regular club, it was Club 21. It's a Club 21 napkin. It was a high-quality napkin. Club 21 wasn't a regular club, it was Club 21. It's Deion and Dominique's club. That was a high-quality napkin that my mom got that autograph on.
Speaker 1:We even gone with this. I don't even know.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we. I don't even know how we got here. We're talking about the Knicks.
Speaker 1:Yo, the Knicks look.
Speaker 1:I think they'll be able to compete. The Knicks are making some really strong moves right now. I think that they have a big four. They have a big four. If they can stay healthy, I think that they can definitely compete with Boston. I don't believe in Boston.
Speaker 1:I think Boston actually benefited from a lot of injuries this year. Milwaukee Bucks was injured, Philadelphia 76ers were injured, the East was decimated and they weren't good anyhow. The East wasn't really good. Now Boston, they showed their ass against Dallas and Dallas was on fire. They were on fuego. I think Denver would have been a better matchup and probably would have pushed Boston and beat Boston, but those guys they came to play. I think Denver would have been a better matchup and probably would have pushed Boston and beat Boston, but those guys they came to play.
Speaker 1:I just wonder how they're going to continue to keep that nucleus next year and if they're going to expand on that. For Zingas to be back, of course, I think that's going to be another good thing for them. But if you look at Boston, they had an easy stretch man. They had an easy, easy path to the finals. The Knicks are going to compete. I'm just wondering if they can build on what they had last year. Sometimes you can add another piece that looks great on paper and it can take away our chemistry. You know what I mean, and I think we got to be careful about that in New York. So I know a lot of New Yorkers are happy, excited about the Knicks. They're still a Knicks. Anything can happen with the Knicks.
Speaker 3:They're very much Knicking, they do a lot of Knicking, they do, they really do. I will say this I think this is the first time in forever that a New York team has a reason to get the number one seed, because if it looks as good in reality as it does on paper, this is the team that, if they can gain home court advantage over boston yep yeah, I think has a legitimate shot at beating them. Like now, boston's front office and coaches already said porzingis is probably not going to be there at the start of the season. Now I'm resigning ananobi and getting mikhail bridges. You're one of the few teams in the league that has two legit guys that can guard jason taylor and jalen brown one-on-one and this is what I mean legitimately guard one-on-one. Both of these guys can go for 30 or 40 whenever you want, but if you can hold both of them to about 20 to 25 yeah you feel me, which is what good defenders do.
Speaker 3:It's like they're nice. Michael jordan had 33 points. The guy would be like you play great defense tonight. It's like I know, it's like this nigga got 50 on me.
Speaker 3:You know they have two legit guys to guard them one-on-one. There's the villanova chemistry between hard defense chenzo, uh, bridges and uh and jaylen. I mean they won a national championship together. They they literally as far as starting fives have great defense and solid offense. Julius Randle coming back Like they were injuries away from going to the Eastern Conference Finals Like how about this?
Speaker 3:The team has constituted had it been healthy last year, I think would have given Boston a six-game series this year, and so I think what this team has is the potential to give Boston an Eastern Conference Finals seven-game series. But I think the winner is the winner who's going to be at home. And so, while I'm impressed, I would still tell you that, because now Boston knows how to win and Boston still has the two best players on the court when they're playing at their best. If Jalen Brown, jason Tatum and Br. When they're playing at their best. If Jalen Brown, jason Tatum and Brunson are playing at their best, tatum and Brown are still the two best players on the floor, and Brunson and Bridges will probably be third and fourth, which means you need home court. If they can get home court, I give them a legitimate shot of going to the finals, but only if they do that.
Speaker 1:Tim's going to have to be very smart about that, because Tim's not, he's not he's going to run them into the ground, like he always does.
Speaker 3:He doesn't listen.
Speaker 5:I don't know why he still has a head coaching job. Man, I can't understand it he's hard-nosed.
Speaker 1:I mean, he's a hard-nosed coach. He's one of the last of that breed. I mean, he's at a JJ Redick, of course, but he's a hard-nosed man I blame him for Derrick Rose bro.
Speaker 3:He's got a lot of Larry Brown in him.
Speaker 1:He does and you see what happened to Larry Brown.
Speaker 3:Burnout.
Speaker 1:Burnout.
Speaker 3:But they can catch lightning in a bottle. This year, if they're careful, the West might wear each other out even more. Next year they can get home court over Boston. Legitimate shot oh yeah facts.
Speaker 1:So where you guys want to go, the chat is going crazy about this list. I think they're ready for you guys to go crazy on this list. Y'all want to hit a couple more things before we get into the list. What y'all want to do Hit the list, Hit the list. So let's start with the first list. Let's go with the normal list.
Speaker 3:Which list are we talking about? Who's the whack-ass list we're discussing first, so you want to? Let me see let's do the Forbes list Y'all want?
Speaker 1:to do the Forbes list, or y'all want to do the Big 3 list first?
Speaker 3:No, let's do Forbes.
Speaker 1:You do Forbes, forbes yeah.
Speaker 3:Let's do Forbes, let's go, let's go to, let's go to the financial mavens for our hip hop information.
Speaker 1:Let's go. It's a dismal because everybody's going crazy to chat with this list man. So this is the list right here, fellas, can you see that? Pretty good, you got number one, kendrick at number two, wayne Cole and Cole at number four, kendrick at number two, wayne Cole at number four, pac at five, drake at six, kanye at seven, nicki Minaj at eight, nas at nine and Eminem at ten and Three, stacks at eleven, and they got BIG at number twelve. So I want to start right there. I want y'all to react to that. Oh god, it's nasty. It's just nasty, nasty.
Speaker 3:It looks worse when you read it to yourself. It looks worse when you actually read it out loud to yourself. It's like, in order, like you just did. It reads worse than it actually sounds. Forbes making this list is like us making a list on top 50 investment firms over the last 100 years. It's like hip-hop talks would like to present their 50 best investment firms over the last 100 years. It's like who the fuck is coming to hip-hop talks for an investment firm list?
Speaker 1:Number one, Pink Horse.
Speaker 3:Nobody even asked you to make this list Right. The fuck is going on here. That's like Steve Jobs breaking down the bars to enter the Wu-Tang 36 chambers. It's like, yeah, yeah, I want to talk about protect your neck today. Fuck this new iPhone.
Speaker 1:Right, right, right. It's embarrassing. It's embarrassing Ridic embarrassing. It's ridiculous. They left out Scarface number one. He's nowhere on this list. Yeah, that's the biggest problem.
Speaker 3:That's the biggest problem with the list, actually, and I'm glad you brought it up. Scarface didn't even make this list. But I'm not expecting people who spend their time watching Merrill Lynch and Goldman Sachs to know anything about Scarface? I'm not expecting that. That's why this list is trashy.
Speaker 5:I'm more mad about names that made the list versus Scarface being left off.
Speaker 3:I'm forever going to be mad anytime Scarface's name is out of a top 10 list, let alone not on a list at all. It's not on the list at all.
Speaker 5:They got MIA that was the one for me. I was like alright, I was like I'm done it's a joke.
Speaker 1:I mean Bad Bunny, bad Bunny. They got Bad Bunny on here listen.
Speaker 5:Like Coop said, man, they need to stick to talking about you know what rappers have the most money. Truth be told, this list came out a few months ago, right, I saw it then and I didn't give it a second thought. And now that it's going viral, I was right back then to not even give it a second thought. And now that it's going viral, I was right back then to not even give it a second thought. And I didn't even know the merit behind it, because when I glanced at the list, I thought it was breaking down you know rappers with the most money. But it still looked kind of weird to me because it was a Forbes list.
Speaker 5:I'm like why is Forbes ranking rappers unless they're ranking their pockets Right, right? Like why is Forbes ranking rappers unless they're ranking their pockets right, right? So you know. But now is the first time I really paid attention to the list, you know, and it's trash, like it ain't even worth like really breaking down because, like Coop said, they're in the wrong sphere to like be ranking any type of rap. You know what I mean. Just stick to talking about how much the rappers are worth, not ranking the rappers, you know as far as anything, just talk about how much they're worth. That's it.
Speaker 3:I really don't trust them to count money either, like I don't. You barely know how to count people's money correctly Half the time. Half the time. If you actually go check like the stats of, like the net and the gross and how tax brackets actually work, they don't even get their numbers right and it's a numbers-based organization.
Speaker 4:Well, what do you guys think is the motive behind this list?
Speaker 3:I'm going to get to the cultural and creative sphere. When you can't even fucking count straight, how does that sound.
Speaker 1:That's the problem.
Speaker 5:It's ridiculous. That's the problem, but what was the motivation behind the list, do you think?
Speaker 1:I think, for this engagement. It's engagement. Someone probably took a bunch of random names and put in a fucking pinata and just kicked it and the shit just spilled out, put a blindfold on and start picking them up and just throw them against the wall to see what sticks. That's all. This was MIA. Should not be on here. Shout out to.
Speaker 3:MIA.
Speaker 1:But MIA should not be on here in no capacity.
Speaker 3:I'm not shouting out anybody on this list. I'm just looking at the names.
Speaker 5:I'm just looking at the names side by side and it's like comedy. Bad Bunny is placed between Method man and Lupe.
Speaker 1:That is nasty.
Speaker 5:You can't make this stuff up A piñata. That sounds about right. That sounds about right, that's nasty. Mi is above Pusha T.
Speaker 1:That's nasty. Who else did you is?
Speaker 3:I mean they got you know what the most, you know what the most correct thing about this list is is that they have Jay Z at number one because that's the only placement that they have. That's only one placement off than where he belongs. That's actually the closest that they got to. Being right was actually putting Jay at number one because it's like, well, at least he's number two.
Speaker 5:Jay got everybody in his pockets at this point where you remember when he said I'm supposed to be number one on everybody's list. It's like they're programmed to do that now. So you know Jay's number one on any list they come out. It's just what it is.
Speaker 3:Jay does a lot of inception when it comes to the media yo mama bears a bingo tumblr.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I can see that too. Let me get a super chat real quick, fellas um yo. Tracy g said uh, cole is my goal overall. Probably should be number one period, but where's drake? He's the goat right now. Uh, ill magic said. I believe the clippers have seen the best of Kawhi Leonard's tenure. It's time to consider making some changes, though I would keep George what Seen the best of Kawhi Leonard?
Speaker 3:Have they seen Kawhi Leonard? Has he played basketball? He plays basketball for the Clippers. How often does that happen? Not often. He plays for the Clippers about as often as we do a show about once a week. Nigga Yo cool.
Speaker 1:Y'all talking about me, y'all talking about me.
Speaker 5:He needs a new software update. He do need a software update he need.
Speaker 3:when your needs are comparable to a 60-year-old prostitute and you're an NBA player, things aren't going well.
Speaker 1:No, too soon, too soon. Year old prostitute and you're an NBA player things aren't going well.
Speaker 3:Yo can't hold anything. No, too soon, too soon. Does he play basketball full time? Does he play basketball full time? I just want to know if he plays basketball full time Y'all get on me.
Speaker 1:Y'all get on me about stuff, but I told y'all about the little people and my mans.
Speaker 3:Look here. All I know is that when we hit games 83, 84, 85, games 82 through 92, he's going to break down somewhere between games 82 and 92. If you have him play basketball Facts, he's a habitual line stepper, except for he actually can't step over the line because his knees won't allow him to. So I guess it's like push him over the line. He's a habitual line pusher. Is that what it is? I don't know what's going on. I don't even know how we got to this either.
Speaker 5:It's going to. We're going to put out a basketball list and Coop going to have Bronny over Kawhi.
Speaker 3:I mean, he's great, Like you know, when he plays more than like 32 games in a season. That's shit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's crazy.
Speaker 3:Man this nigga been on vacation. He done had great vacations while the season was going on. Yeah, yes, yes.
Speaker 1:So, fellas, the list is trash. We know it's trash, we can't even consider it, we can't even. I don't think we should even acknowledge it. To be quite honest, like when Forbes does stuff like this, I think is one of those things where it's always click engagement, right, they're trying to figure out how can they engage people to get them to start talking about it. They're never right. Like you said, they can't even get the monies right when it comes down to who they're saying making what you know. They don't even give you the whole story on that. They give you a half-assed story on where that money is coming from and what that allotment looks like.
Speaker 1:So you can't really trust Forbes to give you that. How can you trust them to give you a hip-hop list? Anyone that puts MIA at 45? And you got Chief Keef in the top 50. Shout out to Chief Keef Don't want to get shot by cheap key, um, cheap keeping the top 50. And you got rap marciano in, like in a 45 46 mark. It's like you're all over the place. You are, you're all over the place.
Speaker 3:it makes absolutely no sense in here they called the seven black people that work in the office that holds about 1200 people. They called the seven black people in office of 1200 people and they said hey, I need you guys to write down your 50 best rappers and we're going to take those lists. That's how it happened.
Speaker 5:There's seven black people in the room.
Speaker 3:Seven black people in the building. It's a skyscraper. There's seven black people in there. They did this list. And even they should be ashamed of themselves.
Speaker 5:I was just going to say I think somebody really young did this list. Looking at it oh, yeah, absolutely that's funny.
Speaker 3:I think somebody really stupid did this list when looking at it, but I guess you could say that those are the same things young and dumb yo, I just I can't get over MIA being on this list.
Speaker 1:I just can't get over it is that the biggest issue, okay.
Speaker 3:So let me ask you all this yeah, being on this list. I just can't get over it. Is that the biggest issue? Okay? So let me ask you all this yeah, is the bigger issue MIA being on this list, or is the bigger issue Scarface?
Speaker 1:not being on this list. Mia MIA. Because it's a byproduct of Scarface not being anywhere on here.
Speaker 3:You think those things are connected. Is what you're saying? I think so.
Speaker 5:Whoever made this list. They thought she killed the Swagger, Like Us feature when it was a sample.
Speaker 1:Facts, facts, facts A Facts. Whoever made this, they're from her town, they're from there, they're from. She's from the UK. Right, right, yeah, they're from that town, she's from the UK. Wherever she's from in the UK, they're from there as well. So they had to throw her in there. Okay, look Cool, they got MIA over Pusha T. They got Melly Mel. Melly Mel take off, mia Pusha T. Come on, this is random.
Speaker 3:Well, I do know that if sir, if I'm speaking correctly, 49 of the people on this list have made solo albums. 49 of the 50 people.
Speaker 5:We know the one that hasn't.
Speaker 3:49 of the 50 people on the list have made a solo album.
Speaker 5:This is the part where we move on because we ain't got time for a 10-minute coup.
Speaker 3:Brad, About Andre 3000 not making a solo record 49 of the 50 rappers on there. Some of those rappers belong to groups and they have solo albums. It's fascinating, it's very fascinating. You want to know? I don't want to talk, I just want to go to the next topic.
Speaker 1:Three Stags made a song called. I Woke Up Like a Panther one morning and I felt like just singing on the flute. That's the name of the song, and they got him on here at like number four, number five or something crazy Number 11. This is crazy. Nonetheless, this is crazy.
Speaker 5:We've already spent too much time on this list, yeah.
Speaker 1:So I want Coop to attack another topic. I want Coop to attack another topic. I want Coop to attack your boy, elliot, because Elliot says and he's disgusted right now Elliot says there is a new big three Jay-Z Drake and Kendrick Lamar. And when I was on my flight this morning I thought about this one for a minute and I had to really put some thought in it because I wanted to ask you guys some questions about this. And I started messing around in StreamYard and started putting some stuff up and I came up with this fellas and I want to get your thoughts, because Elliot is saying that K-Dot Drake and Jay-Z is like really the all-time big three at this point, right, and I want us to have a conversation on that. A. And Jay-Z is like really the all-time big three at this point, right, and I want us to have a conversation on that a little bit if we can, if y'all can indulge me a little bit.
Speaker 1:Because when I thought about that I'm like when did they eliminate Pac or even Big? And does the big three thing really mean something anymore? Did it ever mean something at all? Because during our times we heard the big three first time was Big J. J was the first one that said who's the biggest MCs Great, biggie, jay-z or Nas and at that time J wasn't in the top three. He wasn't one of those at that time when he made that statement. He wasn't part of that.
Speaker 1:So I started going through as I'm flying, I'm going through looking at stuff and I want to start at 94. Because in 94, nas, big and Meth was probably the biggest artists or the biggest names in hip-hop at that time Because we were coming off the heels of of doggy style and on the chronic and Snoop was slowing down just a tad bit because murder was the case, was a situation and you can argue that Snoop was probably bigger than all three. Pause because the album sales and because of um influence, but those three names are ringing heavy in 94 as well. What do you guys say to that in 94?
Speaker 3:Okay, so doggy style is November of 93. Yes, and so, although not released in 1994, how about this? You can go take the sales of to Cal, ready to die and Illmatic in 1994. And it's about half the records Doggy South sold Absolutely, absolutely, and and and and outside of Illmatic and half of ready to die Songs aren't even really that comparable in terms of the level of song snoop is making like snoops, like snoops run from the chronic.
Speaker 3:The doggy style to murder was the case is probably the most underrated run by an all-time great mc ever, because nobody really made more memorable stuff in such a short period of time. So I would tell you that in 1994 snoop is actually still the man, absolutely. If you want to talk about, if you want to talk about emceeing, we can have a nas conversation because that's illmatic. And there are other guys that are kind of like poking around at it meth, big, big l. You know. There are guys like the oc. There are guys like andre and big boy first appear on the scene that year, but it's still snoop for me, like around that time.
Speaker 3:This is the year after strictly for my niggas by tupac. So this is so pock is kind of like floating in that fray, strictly for my niggas has like really really high moments but really really low moments. It's an uneven album. The production is not stellar, but pock is pretty stellar on strictly for my niggas, you know. So there's the pock factor, there's the snoop factor. Ice cube is still rapping while this is going on that's what I was about to say.
Speaker 3:Cube is still around coming off the predator so actually, when, when we talk about the golden age of hip-hop this is part of what makes me feel like it's the golden age of hip hop, Cause that 93 to 96 spectrum, it's like, oh no, I can give you three guys from the East, three guys from the West, a couple of guys from the South, one guy from the Midwest that's coming and that's common Like think about it in 1995, I can give you Scarface, Andre Nas, Big Pac, Cube Snoop. Ray Prodigy and.
Speaker 3:Ray, when has the competition ever been? That heavy.
Speaker 3:When has the competition ever been that heavy? So okay, so we can't. If the competition don't matter, then Bill Russell's the greatest basketball player of all time, because he won 11 rings in 13 years and would have been 12 had he not got hurt. Good point. So if you're telling me competition don't matter, we need to make a paradigm shift on how we view and how we scope everything strategically Hip hop, sports media, like all of those things. So if we're doing it appropriately like the reason that Michael Jordan is often considered the greatest, like he has the numbers, but name the person that has two three-peats, who got two separate three-peats. The only thing that stayed the same through the three-peats was Scotty, and that's why Scotty's so important. Everything else changed Scotty and Phil, and Mike stayed the same.
Speaker 3:That's part of it. The six for six is part of it. It's like, oh no, he beat everybody and so competition matters. If competition didn't matter, and the level of competition didn't matter, and how you win didn't matter mike would never be the greatest facts, facts you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3:Like there are people running around right now saying patrick mahomes is better than tom brady. I'm like, well, you know, tom had three rings at this age. At the same age, tom had three rings. Like I think he might be like eight months ahead of pace. It's like no, like the comp matters though. It's like you understand it. Like that st louis rams team that tom brady got his first super bowl off of. You know what I'm saying? Like the donovan mcnab eagles team, right. The.
Speaker 3:Seattle Seahawks team. That's one of the five best defenses of all time. He threw for 212 yards and two touchdowns in the fourth quarter. I'm sorry 178 yards and two touchdowns in the fourth quarter. Like no, it was 28-3. It's like the competition matters. It's like when you come back down from 28-3, that's goat talk. So part of the goat talk is the competition and the adversity you face. So when you're popping out in 94, 95 and all these guys is like roaming around Redman roaming around.
Speaker 3:This is, this is, this is prime for all of these guys.
Speaker 1:Right, and that's why I put 95 like that, because, if you notice, I'm using the magazine covers. That was, you know, showing who was who was on top during those times. In 95, clearly they had the magazine cover with Big being the king of New York. They had Ray Kwan because of Cuban links and it was showing how he was taking over during this time. But they also had this one magazine cover right here on the far end when they had a lot of the MCs at that time. They had Redman, method man, they had AZ, they had Nas on there, because they couldn't pick who was the definitive leader in 95, because they didn't drop an album that year but the carryover was still going on from Ready to Die.
Speaker 3:People don't understand, even with AZ az, when az dropped sugar hill. I remember when az went on yo mtv raps and ed lover himself was saying, after hearing a single and a verse from illmatic, this guy is going to go down as one of the greatest lyricists to ever bless the mic. He said that on umTV Raps when AZ was debuting Sugar Hill Right. So it's like somebody like A is not even you know what I'm saying and you got somebody like Ed Lover saying he's going to go down as one of the greatest lyricists of all time. He wasn't even top five. He wasn't even top five. Right.
Speaker 3:That's serious when somebody like A is in their prime and they make their best album and they're not even. That's crazy, they're not even top five. It's a crazy time to live in. So like so to bring it all back. This is why Kendrick and Drake aren't in my top 10.
Speaker 3:Oh you telling me, kendrick, in this climate, like, how about this? Is Good Kid Mad City better than Doe or Die? Yes, it is Not by like some large stretch or leaps and bounds. Doe or Die is a classic. Do I think Good Kid Mad City is better than Liquid Swords? No, I do not.
Speaker 3:Probably generational bias, though, for those from the generation that feel like it's better. Yes, do I feel like it's better than only built for Cuban links? Absolutely not Better than ready to die. Absolutely not Better than Elmatic. Absolutely not Better than death certificate. Absolutely not Better than doggy style of the chronic. Stop fucking playing with me. You feel what I'm saying and so it's like how can you? This is my how about this? This is my problem.
Speaker 3:When people say jay is the goat, I'm like his best rap album is a borderline top 20 rap album, like as in somewhere between probably like 15 to 20, 10 to 15 on a good day, but they're like literally about 15 rap albums that I think are better than reasonable doubt. It's not a knock the J and we're going to talk about it and wax poetic about all the things that are important about it. But do I think reasonable doubt is better than it? Takes a nation? No. Illmatic, no. Doggy style no. The chronic, no. The low end theory no, some people might argue with me about that, enter the Wu-Tang. No, I think it's dark and hell is hot. Might be better than reasonable doubt. I think it is Get richer, die trying. Might be better than reasonable doubt.
Speaker 1:I think it is, I think the impact.
Speaker 3:I just gave you 10. Pa paid in full. Yeah, so when you're talking about good kid mad city, I'm like good kid mad city is not even reasonable doubt, like the infamous by mob deep. What do you prefer, the infamous or reasonable doubt?
Speaker 5:I'm a hell on earth guy, so I gotta go reasonable on that that's cool, but okay, so that's where the conversation kind of starts.
Speaker 3:That's kind of like that 11 to 20 type of area, and so when you're telling me that, first of all, drake don't have an album in this conversation and Kendrick has one album in this conversation, you talking about a top three and so there's just something like this is the point where it becomes clickbait and it's like well, I think we're we're.
Speaker 5:You know we'll get to reasonable doubt, but I think jay's discography is kind of funny because I think for the heads we laud reasonable doubt more before, like the overall, you know, average rap fan, rap fan they laud Blueprint more. That's the album they want to hold and put in top 10 talks.
Speaker 3:And you know, within his discography Because the Blueprint is more musically inclined, where, as Reasonable. Doubt is more real hip hop, rap oriented, inclined Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Yes, blueprint is an easy listening album. It's probably the most easy listening album you will probably find it's conversational jade at its highest. You don't have to put all the thought into listening to Blueprint. You put Blueprint in and you just zone out. There's no thought into that.
Speaker 3:Of all the great MCs rap classics. It is the most digestible of all the great MCs rap classics. That's what makes the blueprint special.
Speaker 5:In his own catalog probably. I would rank it maybe fifth as far as just rapping. I think it's the second best yeah. I think it's the second best album. But I would name probably about three or four more Jay albums where he's a better MC on it than on Blueprint. You got Reasonable. You got Volume One. You got Black Album. I think he's rapping better on Black Album and I think he arguably raps better on American Gangster than Paul, no, not American Gangster, in my opinion he's actually going off on American.
Speaker 3:Gangster. I think I don't agree. There's not one record, lyrically, to me that compares to Lyrical Exercise on American Gangster, or even you don't know, lyrical Exercise is goat talk.
Speaker 5:I know, I think Fallen's up there, but that's me the title track, american Gangster Fallen. I think all those runs go crazy.
Speaker 3:I'll tell you this Part of what I've learned, even in the process of doing all these reviews over the years and even doing the pod, is that the connection matters and so you can rap better. But if you don't connect, yeah, and so it has to connect. Because I feel like, actually, if you want to talk about it, it's like the guy that's on the Blueprint 2 is, fundamentally speaking, a better rapper than the guy that's on the blueprint, but none of those songs like literally none of those songs connect the way the songs on the blueprint connect. So it's like what's really the better mic performance? It's like if, if, if, somebody cuts down a tree in the woods and the motherfucker falls but don't nobody hear it. You feel what I'm saying?
Speaker 5:all the stars aligned on blueprint. All the stars were aligned, yeah it was perfect nine songs in two days we talked about the wrong jay-z album, by the way right, we'll, we'll get to that in a minute.
Speaker 5:But I want to say this about the list real quick. My my thing about the list is when I first saw the headline you know, just reading it, I thought I think elliot's wrong either way and I know it's all subjective, but I think he's wrong either way because when I first saw it, I'm like how in the hell is jay-z in the big three? He ain't dropped the album since 2017, right? So I thought he was talking about the current era, because drake and kendrick very much so are two of the big three out of this era. But I thought he was taking cole out of the mix because of the apology or whatever, and inserting Jay-Z. But I'm like Jay ain't drop nothing. He can't be in that conversation. But then when I watched the clip, Huh.
Speaker 3:Go ahead Go.
Speaker 5:When I watched the clip and the soundbite he said all-time big three, which flips everything on his head. Jay does belong in that conversation, but then Drake and Kendrick don't belong in that conversation. You know what I mean. So I just thought he was wrong either way. And I don't know, because he didn't do a good job of explaining himself, and it's all subjective and preference, but what metric are you using? Because you know, like you said Coop about doggy style and he out. You know Sno said coop about doggy style and he outs. You know snoop out. So naz method, man and um and uh yeah, biggie together, right, so what metric are we using when we constitute in the big three?
Speaker 5:are we using, like the impact, the record, sales? Who was the nicest on the mic, like all these things come into play, but know, if they're using sales as a metric, then in my opinion Kendrick doesn't belong in that big three. A lot of people probably don't know it, but Nas has sold more records than Kendrick has. You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:I mean, he has more albums, longer career, not, not.
Speaker 5:But if you, take the same amount of albums that naz has and compare them to kendrick's first, you know five, six albums not still sold more records at that point. You know what I'm saying. So it's like I don't know what metric that we're using to do that. You know what I mean. So is he like nothing really adds?
Speaker 1:up it. There is none, it's it's. It's an emotional metric. They're using whatever motivates them, their emotion. That's the metric. Because you know, they never put a rubric out, they never give you a legend, they never give you anything to go by, they never say here's a point for this, is a point for this. They never do that.
Speaker 3:How can somebody? How? Because how about this? Somebody doesn't write a syllabus can't teach you the course? Because how about this somebody that doesn't write a syllabus?
Speaker 5:can't teach you the course tax.
Speaker 3:There you go and I think elliot, just be going for the.
Speaker 5:You know, like you said, the engagement, the sound bite, I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 3:It feels like and I'm gonna say this respectfully as possible because of what your name is, you're willing to say anything now because of your following and your name and you know it's going to spark a conversation. The credibility of it gets lost when you start making those types of moves, and those moves have been going on for a while and I've said those things about him in a less than stellar manner, but even me appropriating it like like this way isn't really changing. Like what's at the crux of which is the fact that this guy knows better and chooses not to do better, because he's understanding how the game works now and is choosing to be more of a personality than the informational and connected to the culture person that actually got him this stature. The attributes that made him the type of guy that could say this, to garner this type of attention, is now lost because it's not rooted in anything that's fundamentally sound. It's not like I'm glad you said that, hold on.
Speaker 3:If you want to tell me that you think jay is better than nas, I can accept that, because everybody's entitled to their opinion for one, and really, at the end of the day, all we're doing is interchanging my number one for number two. Right, I don't think you have any viable evidence for me after the six year run. But even if you want a six album run not six year run, if you want the six album run, but even if you want to tell me that, well, you have viable rationale to say that that's a discussion to be had. It's a discussion to be had. There is no viable discussion for where Kendrick and Drake fall into that, because in order to fall into that, you have to fall into the catalog, you have to fall into the legendary verses, you have to fall into the cultural impact, as in how many of them are running around. That's not a problem for Drake, that's a big problem for Kendrick. There's not any more Kendricks really running around. There are Drakes running around. They's not a problem for Drake, that's a big problem for Kendrick. There's not any more Kendricks really running around. There are Drake's running around. They're not doing it as good as Drake. But I realized when we were having this discussion.
Speaker 3:For a lot of guys like Elliot, these are the types of things that people said about Rakim before. The quality of music that Big J and Nas made supplanted him out of that firm position, so he's holding on to J. The way the OGs hold on to Rakim is what I've noticed about this. But here's the thing about it and I love Ra, objectively speaking top five but not number one anymore and the fact that he won't let go of that and the fact that he's adding Drake and Kendrick in to this into a spot and this is no disrespect, they just haven't earned it yet.
Speaker 3:You can't sit up there and have Drake's best album is barely a top 50 rap album. Kendrick's best album is barely a top 50 rap album. Kendrick's best album is barely a top 25 rap album. Rap is about moments too, and the moment is usually that album that you make a get rich or die trying a doggy style in Illmatic and enter the Wu Tang, a chronic, a paid in full, where it's like no, they had everything when they made that. Yeah, it was like everything. Like how about this? Do you think? Good, kid Mad City is better than All Eyes On Me.
Speaker 1:No, no. The moment All Eyes On Me, moment was massive.
Speaker 3:The moment was massive. The album is better and you're putting that guy in front of pock, knowing pock got bigger songs, better catalog, better guest appearances, better rap voice, more impact on the culture. Like, look at all the things that I just ran down. There's no credibility to it just because you used to be credible so cool.
Speaker 1:Let me ask you this then, because I I see LP put in there. He said Dan was a moment and View was a moment. The same way that we say that a competition you're up against, can you say the same thing for the moments that you're up against? Because if you have a moment in a dry time, does that dilute the moment itself, because you think about all hours on me. What year was that? Ninety six? What was going on in 95 and 96? Does that dilute the moment itself Because you think about All Eyes on Me.
Speaker 5:What year was that? 95.
Speaker 1:What was going in 95 and 96? A lot of stuff 94, 95,.
Speaker 3:96 is the best run of rap music ever.
Speaker 1:In my opinion Best run and you can't sleep on 97, because 97 was a sneaky run, because you had Sneaky strong. Sneaky strong.
Speaker 3:Right. Life After Death. Wu-tang Forever Y. Club Jeans the Carnival.
Speaker 1:Yes, album sales were going through the roof in 97 by that time.
Speaker 3:Yes, that's because of 94 through 96. Exactly.
Speaker 1:It was a build-up. It was a build-up, so the moments mean more. At that time, views and Dan probably did have the moment, but the moments then it meant a lot more.
Speaker 3:Okay, so let's go to the moment right quick. Nba Finals used to be the 2-3-2 format. When Michael Jordan's hitting that game-winning shot, he's not hitting it in Chicago, he's hitting it in Utah. You want to know why? Because Utah had the better record. They had home court advantage. That's what makes the moment even bigger. He's like I'm not even letting you get to a game seven in your building, I'm going to beat you in your building in game six.
Speaker 3:Phoenix had home court advantage. Game six, the moment matters, it's a little bit elevated. He didn't do that at home.
Speaker 1:No, he didn't do that at home?
Speaker 3:No, he didn't do that at home. The end of both three-peats happened on the road.
Speaker 1:The conditions are tougher the road is tougher. He should have been the underdog, but he wasn't.
Speaker 3:The moment matters when you are matters in the moment. It matters, yes, and even if you just want to go bar for bar, song for song, performance for performance with the music, it just doesn't measure up. No, it doesn't measure up. How about this? How many guys who played their career outside of Kareem in the 1970s is on the top 20 list all time?
Speaker 1:Not many, not many, not many.
Speaker 5:I'm thinking of Kareem in the 70s Out of the 70s only, Dr J.
Speaker 3:So think about this In the 70s really the only all-time great players that you have like top 20 players Kareem and Dr J, some may argue Moses Malone.
Speaker 5:Now let's go to the 80s Just outside, slightly Just outside.
Speaker 3:Now let's go to the 80s. Well, there's Magic Johnson, larry Bird, isaiah Thomas, michael Jordan, akeem Olajuwon, charles Barkley. That's some of Moses Malone prime too. That's still the end of Dr J's prime in the 80s too. You get what I'm saying. Like still the end of dr jay's prime in the 80s too. You get what I'm saying like, listen to all the players I named. I just went kareem doc in the 70s. You know what I'm saying. I just gave you seven guys, like like, just like off rip from the 80s. That's not counting the kevin mckayles. You get what I'm saying.
Speaker 3:Well, that's like part of why larry and magic is so high. It's like look who the fuck they were playing against all the time outside of each other.
Speaker 5:There you go, and you know I'm a firm believer. Like you can't help. You know who you play against. You play who's in front of you, but you have to be judged accordingly right you know what I mean.
Speaker 5:So that alludes to the point that you made earlier Coop, like, competition matters. So if you're dominating, but in a watered down period, yes, we still have to rank you high, but how high do you really rank because of your class? You know what I'm saying. So that's right, exactly. So we got to rank people accordingly, and you know that's not to take nothing away from kendrick or drake, but you know, if you pluck them out of the 2020s and put them in the 90s, what does that look like? You know what I mean, so let me.
Speaker 3:Let me say it to you like this, because people know this, because I'm a KD fan. You know the main reason KD's not in my top 10? It's because Akeem got one MVP, two rings and two finals MVPs, but them two rings and them two finals MVPs like literally the same stat line as KD One regular season MVP, two finals MVPs, two rings and them two finals MVPs. Like literally the same stat line has Katie one regular season MVP, two finals MVPs, two rings. Oh them rings Ain't the same fam.
Speaker 5:No, they're not waiting to say.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I can't. I can't objectively tell you that the KD is better than a team.
Speaker 5:The way Hakeem got those two rings and like you said what competition matters If got those two rings and, like you said what competition matters if hakeem still get those, you in and back to back years. But if hakeem gets those two rings still and michael jordan is still in the league, then we're ranking kareem even higher.
Speaker 3:You know what I'm saying kareem's top three or four, if that happens I mean, I'm sorry, not uh kareem, but hakeem.
Speaker 5:We're ranking hakeem even higher if he gets those two rings while michael's still in the league.
Speaker 3:If Hakeem were to win those two rings while Mike was around, it would be like it would go Michael LeBron Hakeem Because he already beat Shaq.
Speaker 5:He'd be top five for sure. He'd be top five for sure. That's the point that competition matters.
Speaker 3:How about this? Tim Duncan's not better than Akeem Olajuwon to me, but I ain't ignoring those five rings. I think if Akeem and Tim Duncan play in their prime. Akeem going to cook him, because he cooked everybody else. He cooked Kareem. He did Him and Walt Chamberlain are the only guys to ever block Kareem Skyhook. You know that, right, Only two guys have blocked Kareem Skyhook Akeem and Wilt. Think about that.
Speaker 5:Competition matters. I thought Ralph Samson blocked it one time. Who Ralph Samson? Ralph Samson?
Speaker 3:I don't think so. Not that it's been documented, maybe. But what I'm saying is look that like, look at the level. That's why competition matters. How come only will and akeem could block kareem skyhook? Because the level that kareem operated on, you had to be capable of operating on that level to even block his best shot. It takes somebody special. The competition matters. Kareem ain't have no competition outside of will early and Akeem late. That's why they were the ones that blocked the shot. That's part of the reason why magic is ahead of him, cause magic's magic's. How about? This magic road was a more difficult road than Kareem, even though he had Kareem. He got one less ring and four less MVPs. But that's competition. The reason we have magic ahead of Kareem is the competition.
Speaker 5:Yeah, magic, magic doesn't drop anywhere below top five because, even with his four losses, his four losses is the Dr J, isaiah Thomas, larry Bird, michael Jordan.
Speaker 3:Yeah, top 20, top 20 guys. You're saying he lost to four of the top 20 players who ever played basketball, and that's okay, exactly. And, in my opinion, top 15, because I have Isaiah and Doc in my 10 through 15. Oh yeah, for sure, he lost to four of the top 15 players who ever lived.
Speaker 5:And I hated Detroit. I'm a diehard Bulls fan. I hated Detroit. Man and Isaiah's in my top 15.
Speaker 3:Nine finals Nine finals in 12 years Against the stiffest competition ever. Nine finals in 12 years, Five rings yeah.
Speaker 5:Now the West was watered down back then when Magic was playing. I will say that the West was a little bit weak.
Speaker 3:Mavericks had good teams, trailblazers had good teams, houston had good teams. Ralph Sampson and the King.
Speaker 5:But the East was the powerhouse though back then. I'm just saying. But you know, magic lived in the finals his whole career.
Speaker 3:Actually, I mean you could argue that it was just it wasn't. Even even the east was top heavy. You had philly, detroit and boston for like pretty much from about 80 to about 90 like. Those teams were pretty like great, so really good. So using that, same logic.
Speaker 1:What about? Because now we're talking about wayne in that regard, because wayne moment was massive. Wayne probably had maybe top five moments of hip-hop all time, because his run started in a very weird space. You're talking about the quarter two that ramped up to the quarter three when he was at his zenith. The quarter three and that's not even counting the mixtape Wayne run when mixtapes was like a big thing. During that time you had the G unit run with mixtapes. Wayne had his run and he was also right there in the middle of everything, changing A change of the guard, if you will, because you had TI coming and TI is not on these lists. Ti had a big moment. Ti had a massive moment, himself Massive. He helped usher it in that era. You had TI, you had Wayne, you had Jeezy Ross Ross.
Speaker 3:Say it with me, Sean Rick Ross. I liked.
Speaker 1:Ross. Back then you had Ross in there. You had a lot of different. You had a different movement. Back then the South was really coming up. The South was really taking over at that time and Wayne was at the forefront of that. You know what I mean, as much as I hate to say it. The South had it on lock at that time.
Speaker 3:So how about this? I think Wayne is a good place to talk about. Kendrick's place, respectfully, even though I picked Drake in this battle, drake's not part of this conversation. Okay, because he doesn't have the album or the bars. In my opinion, he has all the metrics outside of the albums and the bars. But if we're doing a full qualitative performance, like all the things and including the numbers and the metrics, but if we're doing a full qualitative performance, like all the things and including the numbers and the metrics, if we're going off the numbers and the metrics first, then yeah, he's in the easy top three to five conversation.
Speaker 3:But if we're talking about quality of albums and lyricism, I think Wayne is a very good, arguable comp for Dot because it's like what moment did Dot have that was bigger than Wayne's moment? And what album does he like that Dot had that was bigger than Wayne's moment? And what album does he like? The Carter 2 and 3? Those are comparable. Carter 1, 2, and 3 are comparable to Good Kid, mad City, to Pimple, butterfly and Damn. In terms of the qualitative output, okay, he's a better guest appearance rapper. He's transitioned through multiple eras better. He's a better hook writer.
Speaker 3:I think, the lack of guest appearances hurt Kendrick a lot.
Speaker 3:Listen to this. Lil Wayne has more verse of the year contenders than Kendrick does, like oh no from the Carter 2. He has mic performances on big songs like Stuntin' Like my Daddy, that Kendrick doesn't have. That's not just a dope-ass song, that's a great mic performance. The mic performance he just gave on Magic 3, which was the only guest appearance great guest appearance, mic performance.
Speaker 3:Even to this day I have Wayne, literally like right now, at 11 or 12 on my list. How can I put Kendrick ahead of him? By what metric? Even if you feel like Good, kid Mad City is better than the Carter two or three, depending on which way you lean it's not that much better. And look at Wayne, the totality of Wayne's career. Look at all the work. Like his work is literally like quadruple the work that Kendrick has done, and I'm not exaggerating when I say that at all. He's done quadruple the work. He's operated at the same level. He's given this culture more, been a leader of this culture more done more guest appearances, been part of more important moments. How can you even have him ahead of Wayne?
Speaker 5:I personally do, but they're next to each other. I got Kendrick at 10, wayne at 11, because I lean towards lyricism. Just because if you're comparable and you know I'm going to lean towards the lyricist nine times out of 10. You know what I mean. That's going to be the deciding factor for me.
Speaker 3:This is what I'm trying to tell you. This is what I'm trying to tell you, though. Wayne has actually put his lyricism and his lyrical capabilities to the test.
Speaker 5:It's been tenfold how much more he's done it than yeah. The work is more, it's more work there.
Speaker 3:And then not even the work, it's the competition. No, he'll go do a record with nas oh, he'll be on swagger, like. He'll be on swagger, like us, with a prime ti, prime kanye, and almost out of his prime j, no, he's on those records. He'll do a record with a scar face, his, his competitive level of how he operates in the verses that he has done while operating in that competitive space with other tidings is just greater. Kendrick doesn't have that. He has nostalgia with pusha t right, yeah, kendrick's, kendrick's.
Speaker 5:uh guess the lack of guest appearances hurt him because he's not doing many of those, but I think the thing with Wayne.
Speaker 3:Hold on, aj, I don't mean to cut you off. His lack of competition and his lack of competitive spirit and fervor prior to this battle hurts him more than even the lack of guest appearances. It's the fact that no Wayne been on a track with Nas Bun B, scarface Jay-Z, like you name it, like he boxes with everybody.
Speaker 5:Yeah, he'll get on the track with them.
Speaker 1:He don't want to go on the track. Yeah, he'll get on the track. He'll get on the track with anybody.
Speaker 5:I remember he was begging Eminem like yo. I want to feature with you. You know what I'm saying. I want to trade bars, like he was doing that for a while. But I think the thing with Wayne, with him, you know, just comparing him to Kendrick, wayne's bars are, you know, he's real metaphor heavy and stuff, and he doesn't. I don't want to say surface level, but Kendrick digs a little bit deeper beneath the surface. So, like for me and my personal taste, I'm going to give like the edge to somebody like that. If your greatness is comparable, right. But what I will say about wayne is, if I'm thinking about it, wayne might have the far as degree of difficulty, he might have the best quote-unquote moment in hip-hop history, just far as degree of difficulty, because wayne was on the scene for a while and reinvented himself and then entered into goat talks. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 5:He reinvented himself twice Right, and the 50s degree of difficulty with his moment was really high too, from being blackballed. But we can't negate the fact that he was co-signed by two of the biggest people in the game, which was Eminem and Dr Dre. But I think Nelly is one of the biggest moments in the game, which was Eminem and Dr Dre, but I think Nelly's one of the biggest moments in history because he didn't have a cosign. He came from a region of hip hop that nobody was familiar with and he blew up. But Nelly is not in those, you know, top 25 to 50 rapper talk. So we got to push him to the side. But as far as those guys, that's in that conversation. Degree of difficulty I think Wayne's moment might be bigger I don't want to say bigger, but it's degree of difficulty better than anybody else's, maybe X, maybe X because X was on the scene for a while before he, you know.
Speaker 3:Finally, broke through. But I'm going to tell you like this when it's close, I lean on the content slash, subject matter and the lyricism. But what I would tell you, when it comes to Kendrick versus Wayne, the only thing that Kendrick has over him is the content and lyricism. Everything else is in Wayne's favor Albums, hits, sales, guest appearances, voice delivery, cadence. The only thing Kendrick has over Wayne actually clearly is content and subject matter. That's what I lean on. When it's close, I'm telling you you may have them next to each other. I don't even think it's that close, because if we were doing a rubric, doing a metric, the stuff that Kendrick would win subject matter, storytelling, lyrics everything else would go to Wayne.
Speaker 5:Right, we're doing a rubric of 10 things. People will argue we're doing a rubric.
Speaker 3:Hold on, listen to what I'm saying. If we're doing a rubric of 10 things and Wayne clears 7 over Kendrick and Kendrick only clears 3, is that close to you? That's not close to me. Closest one is 5-4.
Speaker 5:But you're leaving out key elements of the conversation, though, like critical acclaim, wayne has never been as critically acclaimed as Kendrick.
Speaker 1:They had him as a goat at one point. That's not.
Speaker 5:No, that's just overall talk. None of Wayne's albums have been critically acclaimed as much as Kendrick's.
Speaker 3:Critical acclaim also includes your peers and it also includes the audience. Just as many people during Wayne's peak run were running around calling him the goat, the same way they're calling people Kendrick the goat. Just as many people during Wayne's peak run were running around calling him the GOAT, the same way they're calling people Kendrick the GOAT. It's not that different. It was crazy. I know guys in this city right now that if I go up to them people who MC and have done music in this city that if I ask him who the greatest of all time is, they will tell me Wayne and I'll ask him how old they are and when they tell me their age, I'm like yep, falls right in line.
Speaker 5:But I didn't buy into either one of those, wayne or Kendrick being the GOAT, but you know what I mean. But they both, you know, got claims for top 10. You know what I'm saying and you know 10, 11, 12, when you get in that ballpark you're like splitting hairs. So I mean it all comes down to preference, like one or two slots.
Speaker 3:Right, ok. So, like you just said, when you're talking about that, 10, 11, 12, we're splitting hairs. These guys are getting put in the top two and three, and that's just not fair.
Speaker 5:No, no, no, they don't. They don't belong there. Jay is the only person in Elliot's list that belongs there and you know, when he came out with that list, I tried to read between the lines a little bit. Like he made a statement and you alluded to this earlier coop. Like you know, he's trying to. You know where he had credibility before, that he's, like you know, making these, you know, claims for engagement or whatever and acting like they're credible and, um, objective.
Speaker 5:If, if he's saying this is my personal list, then I don't have no problem with it. But if he's saying like, oh, this is the objective big three, then that's a problem and I don't have no problem with it. But if he's saying like, oh, this is the objective big three, then that's a problem and I don't like how he said I'm paraphrasing but he was like I'm going to give Drake this last little bit of grace or whatever and put him at number two or whatever, because I'm reading between the lines, that's personal, because it was on the button podcast where he was saying that Drake hit him with the rat emoji because Drake thought he was feeding info to Kendrick about dropping Family Matters or whatever. So now you're going to say like I'm going to throw you a bone here, drizzy, and put you in my top three. So this is me giving you some grace in your time of need you know and acting like you were an objective part of the big three.
Speaker 3:To me that's nasty work. It is nasty work. So to me that's nasty work. It is nasty work. So, like he sent out a tweet where he's talking about how, when he went to the Kendrick show, kendrick, you know, pulled them close and said you're a rat. And he like laughed and was like you know, I love hip hop. And it's like he's embracing this role and this role is actually a former version of himself, like that's what I'm trying to tell you. Like the guy that gained all this notoriety for his insight, for his astute nature, for his hip-hop knowledge, that guy has been replaced with somebody that literally says stuff for clicks, and that's my issue with it and that's how I know that it's not real. The only reason it's being taken seriously is because it's him.
Speaker 5:Next topic yeah, and all three of the names he named were people that moved the needle currently for engagement.
Speaker 3:You know like where's big, at where's?
Speaker 5:nas at where's you know? But jay-z's name moves the needle, so does Kendrick's, so does Drake's, so that's a default big three. But his metric doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 3:It doesn't Think about this. When somebody like Elliot Wilson's metric lines up close to the Forbes list, that's how you know we just lost one. You might win some, but you just lost one.
Speaker 5:Yeah, it's damn near spot on.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So, with that being said, let's get into some new music. There's a lot of new music dropping in about 50 more minutes. I know Kookie heard the new Rakim joint already. I did. I did, enjoyed it, enjoyed it, right. You feel good about it, right?
Speaker 5:AG, you go first. No, I thought that joint was dope. I ain't even going front, you know what I mean. I enjoyed the joint. For me it was dope to hear Rakim and Master Killer. Krupp did his thing too, but Rakim and Master Killer, it was dope to hear them on the same track because I've always thought for years they were similar in tone and cadence. And just to hear them on a track together, kind of like you know, it was just really dope to hear. And then I will say that I'm a little bit surprised by the production. The production wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be. It wasn't nothing stellar but it was all right. And you know, rock him was spitting and I think the the track was solid. Overall it was a solid track. I could only hope that the rest of the album was like the first single.
Speaker 1:Corrupt sounds great. Corrupt sounds great. Corrupt is coming off. It's still a performance On the Dolphin. That's the Dolphin album. It sounds great on this. Master Killer you guys know, you know I love Master Killer. Master Killer, you know one of my top MCs back in the 90s. Straight up I thought that when Master Killer rhymed over Glacier's advice, I thought that was one of the dopest verses of that year.
Speaker 5:Top five woo verse. It's a top five woo verse period.
Speaker 1:Easily and he was floating on it Silky, silky on it. So I've always been a big fan of Master Killer. Shout out to Master Killer.
Speaker 5:And that was his first verse, if I'm not mistaken.
Speaker 1:I thought it was his second. It was his second verse. It was his second verse no.
Speaker 5:I mean his first verse Personal first verse.
Speaker 3:No, no, he's on chest boxing. He's on chest boxing. He's on chest boxing. Yeah, he just got out of jail, I think he's on.
Speaker 5:I thought that's what you said. I thought you said the mystery of chest boxing was the one no, no, grace's advice oh okay, I got you my fault, my fault, yeah, it's just advice.
Speaker 1:Oh, he was silky on that joint. Um, that is wild lp, but um, he sounds. He still sounds the same and, like you said, him and rock him has that same palette, that same sounds the same. And, like you said, him and Rakim have that same palette, that same tone, that same tone of rap dialogue and him and them together. I thought it was going to be too much of a clash. To be quite honest, I thought it was going to sound like just one of these things that just goes straight now, but I felt like it was a great blend. So it made sense for Master Killer to be on that and to talk that talk, because you know what Rock is going to bring, you know what Corrupt is going to bring, and Master Killer wasn't far from that pack. Although I think Corrupt had the best verse, no one really separated themselves from the pack, in my opinion. What do you think?
Speaker 3:Cool. So I think the beautiful thing about this record is one the beat was surprisingly good. I mean that in a complimentary way. Rakim is Rakim. So when I talk about niggas getting credit for stuff that they're supposed to do, I'm not about to give Rakim credit for doing what he's supposed to do. You wrote Payton no, I'm not about to give Rocky him credit for doing what he's supposed to do. You wrote Peyton no, I'm not joking. You wrote Peyton full. Follow the leader, let the rhythm hit him, don't sweat the technique. In the 18th letter, you're that guy, yeah. So mic performance-wise, you're doing what I expect you to do.
Speaker 3:The thing that I noticed and what really made me happy about this record and I do enjoy this record it's a dope-ass record. You can literally listen to the other two guys rapping after Rakim spits his verse and you can directly tell that they are directly influenced by this guy. Corrupt and Master Killer are directly influenced by Rakim and you can hear it in their bar. Structure, style, tone, measured musical delivery I'm going to say it again measured musical delivery, word usage, verbiage, vernacular All of those things are in play on this record. This record is really fucking dope.
Speaker 1:Yes, agreed my fear. Those things are in play on this record.
Speaker 3:this record is really fucking dope. Yes, agreed, my fear and and this is just me playing devil's advocate my fear is that this is going to be the best record on this album, which is why we heard it first, which is why he led with it, because when I listened to corrupt and master killer rap on this because they both got off and they both got off in their way I'm like, well, if you actually think about raw and you think about the lineage that he's created and his hip hop tree, his hip hop family tree, these guys, fruit wise, are some of the first pieces of fruit that spawned from the tree and you can hear it, and so it fits because of that. The high level of lyricism, the musical measure, even the tone that both of them use when they rap is very Rakim-like. When Corrupt came out, he was called a West Coast Rakim. This is why and so it fits and it makes sense my worry for this album is still this might be the best song that we hear from this album, and that means we're not getting any classic material, we're just getting a really, really dope to great record.
Speaker 3:You understand now, as far as what you said, only built for Cuban links is only you understand. Now, as far as what you said, only Built for Cuban Links is only superseded by me personally, by it Takes a Nation of Millions and Illmatic. Because it Takes a Nation of Millions and Illmatic embody a theme, a content and a feeling that supersedes the talk on Only Built for Cuban Links. But if we're just talking lyrics and beats, I don't know an album like the Purple Tape and the fact that, outside of Nas' verse on Verbal Intercourse, master Killah's verse on Glaciers of Ice is probably the second best verse on that entire album. I think so it is only superseded by Nas' verse on Verbal Intercourse.
Speaker 5:Well, wait a minute. We got two verses on Guillotine. We got Inspector Beck and JZA. They're in that conversation.
Speaker 3:Okay, but this is what I'm saying.
Speaker 5:I don't want to do that because, man, it seemed like Ray don't got a top five verse on his own album. That's crazy.
Speaker 3:He's got. He's got Incarcerated Scarfaces, which is a top three Wu-Tang solo song.
Speaker 5:It makes up for it. It makes up for it.
Speaker 3:That's what I'm saying Ray, hold on. When I think of New York hip hop, I think of Ray first, before I think of J Big A and Nas. I think of Ray, and I think the purple tape has a lot to do with that. So what Ray did? Ray set the tone better than any rapper has ever set a tone on an album Like you're going to rap like this, you're going to come like this, you're going to style like this, you're going to wild like this on all of these records, or you're not going to be on these records. Nobody set the tone on Only Built for Cuban Links like Ray does.
Speaker 3:But, on Glaciers of Ice. He allowed Master Killer to get into a special chamber. That beat is more made for Master Killer than it is for Ray and Ghost. Beat-wise glory-wise. That's built for Master Killer, and so while technically GZA and Dex verse might be better, technically master killer's verse is right there.
Speaker 3:I do think the beat the glaciers of ice is better than the beat the guillotine yeah and I think, because of how the beat goes and because it's like this, the best things in life are unexpected. Nobody expected that from master killer, no well here's the thing, master killer.
Speaker 3:When master killer dropped that verse, he was the least known member in the crew right and so capadonna was more known to him, correct? So outside of nasa's verse on verbal intercourse, if you tell me that that's the best verse on the purple tape, which lyrically I think is the best composition of lyrics I've ever heard on one album, like a lot of people will say when I say my performance, I'm talking about it was written Illmatic and let the rhythm hit him from like solo mission. You know what I'm saying. It's like oh no, ain't nobody took a solo mission like that. But if we just compacting it and putting in the vacuum, the Purple Tate got the best set of lyrics ever created, because the lyrics that were created is coming from Ray Ghost Deck. You, god's best verse is on there Knuckleheads is you God's best verse? Glacier Ice is Matt Tequila's best verse. Ice Cream is Method Man's best hook, next to Cream, his verse on.
Speaker 3:Wu Bambino's is one of his best 10 verses. Jizz's verse on Guillotine is one of his 10 best verses. Dex's verse on Guillotine is one of his 5 best verses all hands on deck.
Speaker 3:Ray is your blue guy because Ray is great from beginning to end. You want me by myself. Knowledge God Spot Rushers got you Want me on Ghosts with Rainy Days. Criminology got you Want me on Incarcerated Scarfaces. There aren't too many three-verse songs with a hook with one artist better than Incarcerated Scarfaces. Havoc's on Quiet Storm. Incarcerated Scarfaces is better than Quiet Storm to me because it's like oh no, p got Hav on Quiet Storm, ray got Ray on Incarcerated Scarfaces. It's Ray's solo mission. It's one of the best solo mission records. That and Bring the Pain in Brooklyn Zoo are the three best individual solo songs where it's like oh no, the Wu-Tang artists by themselves. So the fact that Master Killer is showing up on the best lyrical album ever and delivering a top two or three verse on there special, special stuff. So Ray is operating, I mean Ra is operating with somebody that's capable of delivering that.
Speaker 3:And so that's why this song with Rak M makes sense. I'm just worried the rest of the album is the rest of the album going to sound like this guys?
Speaker 5:Well, it's not a whole lot of album left. It's only six songs after this, so hopefully it maintains that level of quality.
Speaker 3:But just to add to I waited 15 years for seven Rock M verses.
Speaker 5:I told him not to do this. The seventh seal, I don't care what seal it is.
Speaker 3:I don't care if it's seal singing Kiss from a Rose.
Speaker 5:Just to add to your point, coop, where you were talking about the beats. I think Master Killer shine on those songs Glaces of Ice and Mystery of Chess Boxing because they have similar BPMs and I think if it's slowed down any Master Killer comes off very monotone and the BPMs on Galatians might be like 126 they're higher, but they're higher. But if he's rhyming at a high BPM, y'all were talking about the breakdown.
Speaker 3:I'm talking about when he's rapping, though y'all were talking about the breakdown and the bridges. When he's rhyming at a high BPM, y'all are talking about the breakdown. I'm talking about when he's rapping, though Y'all are talking about the breakdown and the bridges.
Speaker 1:It's Dow Dogg. He's rapping as Dow Dogg.
Speaker 5:Yeah, but when he's on high BPMs he comes off as more interesting, more engaging, but when that's lower BPMs he comes off very monotone. So I think, go ahead. No, no, no, no Go. I was just adding that to your point that those beats matter in. You know accentuating, you know Master Killer's skill level.
Speaker 3:Okay, so how about this? When Rakim is doing, the Saga Begins off the 18th letter. That's what I'm talking about. The way Pete Rock is moving the beat Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom and my name is Rakim Boom, boom, boom, boom. Like he's making him dig into it. You have to make guys like that dig into the beats. When you're listening to Corrupt on this record, watch when he's stopping and spacing. He's doing a very similar stop and go that Common did on Get Em High off the college dropout. Because he's on his rap shit.
Speaker 3:He's pausing because he can find the space between the beat, Because that's the special thing that separates great lyricists from all-time great lyricists he knows how to catch the beat different if he needs to right, because that beat is on the record is dope.
Speaker 3:I'm just worried that the rest of the album is not going to sound this way. I'm not joking when I say if you give me seven verses after 15 years, that's a 0.5 verse a year average, and I've been on Kendrick's ass about seven years If I've been on Kendrick's ass about dropping one album in seven years.
Speaker 3:If I've been on Kendrick's ass for dropping one album, see, I got to be consistent. If Kendrick is dropping one album in seven years and I'm on his ass about the qualitative output and the quality of the output, even if the quality of the album is equal to this, you're giving me seven verses after 15 years, fam, it's like no, I gotta be consistent. So is he like four on my list all time? Yes, he is, but if this album don't sound like this record, is that the type of shit that'll make me drop you to five or six? When you made me wait 15 years for you to spit seven verses?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:That means I get a half a verse out of you every year. That means I'm getting eight bars a year from you. No different than three stacks I get eight bars a year from you.
Speaker 5:I knew that.
Speaker 3:I knew that three stacks dig was coming, but Eight bars a year from you and you won't let the rhythm hit them by yourself.
Speaker 5:Yeah, Shout out to Paul the. Yeah, I don't know if you intended to do it, but you hit a dope segue. You mentioned both Common and Pete.
Speaker 1:Rock. Did y'all hear that Joy 4 for 4. I saw people talking about it.
Speaker 3:Sounded like the album of the year. It sounded like the album of the year, guys. I wonder if they're putting too much out right now.
Speaker 1:That kind of worries me. You know what they're doing too much out right now, because I'm just here. That kind of worries me.
Speaker 3:You know what they're doing they're dropping a lot. You know what they're doing, though, sean. They're saying fuck it. Yeah, they're saying fuck it Because you want to know what their legacies are. Secure, oh, absolutely. How about this? Common to me is in that same Lil Wayne Kendrick Redman territory. He ain't about to move, but so many spaces. Pete Rock is in that Q-tip premiere.
Speaker 5:But does that take away from the album experience, though? Because we come from an era where people drop three and four singles before the album drop, and a lot of times when the album drop, you might end up skipping some of those songs, whether they're dope or not. So does that take away from it?
Speaker 3:Let me ask you something, Adriel Are they giving you better beats, rhymes and life better than anybody in 2024? Yeah, Because that's what matters.
Speaker 5:What I will point out is, oddly enough, a lot of these beats sound premier ish. You know that Pete is doing. I hear a lot of DJ premier influence and I'm not I mean, you know what I'm getting at, but um so, look primo large pro Q tip Pete rock. Yeah, they all came up at the you know same.
Speaker 3:look Q-Tip Pete Rock yeah they all came up at the you know Literally same vinyl store. Used to shop records at the same vinyl store and try to steal records from each other.
Speaker 5:Yeah, still sharp and still. But I'm with you, coop, though it sounded like Album of the Year, contender, and I mean it's dope. But what If the four records I've heard.
Speaker 3:If the rest of the album is like the four records I've heard, they have the album of the year.
Speaker 1:No doubt, Right now they're four before.
Speaker 5:To me, this is trending to be as good as, or a little bit better than, finding Forever. That's where I would put it. So what are y'all's top five? Calm albums in order.
Speaker 3:B yeah Like Water for Chocolate.
Speaker 5:Yep, yep, that's my second.
Speaker 3:One Day It'll All Make Sense Finding Forever and Resurrection. I can live with that. Yep, that's my second. One day it'll all make sense finding forever and resurrection.
Speaker 1:I can deal with that.
Speaker 5:I got it a little bit reversed from you, coop. I got resurrection as third, the first two, I agree. I got resurrection as third, the production is not good enough and then I got finding forever fourth, and I got one day it all makes sense fifth. So if this album is at least on finding forever level for me, I think it'll knock out One Day it All Makes Sense on my top five album list, which it seems like it's trending that way.
Speaker 3:How about this. I'm more impressed with the records that I've heard than anything I've heard from Common outside of, like Water for Chocolate and B.
Speaker 5:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Even B no outside of those two Outside of B, b and Like.
Speaker 3:Water for Chocolate. That's one and two. I don't expect him to hit that Supreme God level again. The best he could do is three on his list. I think If this album is sounding the way that these songs sound so far, then we'll see how it holds up. But I think some three or four placement might be in place, which means if your sixth best album is something like One Day It'll All Make Sense or Finding Forever or this, that's why I don't have Kendrick in my top 10.
Speaker 4:Like stop looking at me like I'm fucking crazy. No, I don't care. Stop looking at me like I'm crazy.
Speaker 1:Do you understand how much?
Speaker 3:people are getting at me about this. It's like does he have six albums like this? Is he even on album number six?
Speaker 5:Yo, I'm going to send you Kendrick's autograph on a napkin Coop.
Speaker 3:You want to know what. If you do, you know what I'm going to do. I'm going to take the cigar and I'm going to burn a hole in it and watch the motherfucker light up. I needed Dominique's autograph when. I was seven, because he was my hero. I don't need Kendrick's autograph. I would light that bitch on fire if you send it to me and I'll light it live on this show. I will light his autograph on fire, I don't even need an autograph.
Speaker 3:I don't even take pictures. I don't even take pictures with a lot of these dudes and I run into these motherfuckers all the time. Take a picture with your ass, God damn, that's another great segue.
Speaker 1:You may run into these guys, jt and Jeezy, about to drop some joint tonight too.
Speaker 3:I prefer to run into JT than Jeezy.
Speaker 1:They got a hole.
Speaker 3:Just so we're clear about it If we're talking about where I'm running, are we talking about where I'm running? Are we talking about where I'm running? Are we talking about where I'm running? Running into JT instead of snow, trying to run into snow I snow, trying to run in the snow. I'm a month away from non-report. The last thing I'm trying to do is run in the Jeezy JT.
Speaker 1:What is Jeezy wearing though?
Speaker 3:What is Jeezy wearing Jeezy? Is single no no, no, corona queens, get the money. I'm tired of you picking on Southern rappers.
Speaker 1:Jeezy's free. No, he's free.
Speaker 3:He's free.
Speaker 1:He's single. Jeezy's free.
Speaker 3:No, he's free he's single he's single see, you're worried about the wrong thing. You're worried about what JT is wearing not, what Jeezy is wearing you're right, my apologies.
Speaker 1:Pause. Jt looks stellar look at that.
Speaker 3:I don't give a damn how Jeezy. I'm gonna be honest with you. Every time you post a picture it's like who gives a fuck if Jeezy is in the picture. Like I don't give a damn, I'm going to be honest with you. Every time you post a picture it's like who gives a fuck if Jeezy is in the picture. I don't know, nigga, rap, rap. You got to do promo, that's fine, don't nobody care. Yo, come on All white. He used to like fucking snowman. You know, when Todd sent me this she was like you heard the Cinderella and Snowman. I was like Disney got a movie. She's like nigga.
Speaker 3:She's like nigga and I'm like Snow White's coming out in 2025.
Speaker 1:She's like nigga Yo.
Speaker 5:She's like you're in Atlanta. I'm going to be honest. I ain't even checking for that joint. I mean I'm going to listen to the Shaggler and drop it with it, don't matter you a hater. I'm checking for the Marsha joint produced by Dre, and then listen to this Shaq joint with Jay-Z and Nas a couple times. That's all I'm checking for.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I'm trying to tell y'all something. This city is different. I'm not lying. You can walk into any late night or local establishment. They're playing Jeezy's records from 20 years ago. Today I believe it's still. If you're not interested, that's why I tell people you don't know what it's like to be here when Jeezy drops something. That's a big deal down here.
Speaker 1:No facts.
Speaker 3:No, absolutely.
Speaker 1:He's loved down there.
Speaker 3:The girl's going to premiere to this. You know what I'm saying. You know what I'm saying, AG? When I'm saying the girl's going to premiere to this, I'm saying the girl's going to premiere to is JT.
Speaker 5:They don't pull up.
Speaker 3:They can make a couple stacks off this record when it drop on Friday. Hold on, what is it? 11.32? On about 28 minutes. These girls are going to be getting this money when this record drop. You're about to get this money. That's what they're about to do. You need to find you one of them. Let them take you to Waffle House like I used to do. Let them take you to Waffle House. When they're done, you can get the all-star breakfast and a Texas cheesesteak to go. Yo Coop, AJ ain't know about that. A couple of orange juices.
Speaker 1:He don't know about that.
Speaker 3:A little pecan pie with butter on the grill.
Speaker 1:I'm going to have to pay for all of it. Have a.
Speaker 3:Waffle House in West Virginia. She'll be like baby. I had a great night.
Speaker 5:I'll be like how Maybe I had a great night, pecan pie with butter on the grill.
Speaker 3:All-star breakfast, texas cheesesteak to go. That's a 40 piece right there. That's nothing to her, she's just going to throw them a stack of ones.
Speaker 1:Yes, and when you're done, don't forget to take Next topic.
Speaker 5:Next topic Next topic.
Speaker 1:Next topic.
Speaker 3:It how to ruin a moment. You know how to ruin a moment don't nobody.
Speaker 5:I got myself into this so shout out to Shaq for giving us, you know, two classics back to back how do you know that it's a classic?
Speaker 3:have you heard it? It's J and N of course you've never heard this.
Speaker 1:I haven't have you heard it. It's J and Nas 96. You've never heard this.
Speaker 5:I haven't Really. Nah, this was on all the mixtapes back in the day, Like you know, it was under another name too. What's it called? Analyze this?
Speaker 3:I think they used to call it Analyze this Okay.
Speaker 5:That was the street, you know what I'm saying. Like the mixtape name, but it had Lord Tariq, jay-z and Nas on it.
Speaker 3:You know what I'm saying? I never thought that was real. You know, I never thought that was real, that was real.
Speaker 5:Yeah, it was real, but Nas' verse didn't make the final album version. I don't know why, but now they're going to release it with the Nas verse.
Speaker 1:I think we all know why I I think White is.
Speaker 5:Well, this was 96, but shout out to Shaq though he gave us Can't Stop the Rain last week, classic big guest appearance. And then Shaq got the clout to say you know what? I'm going to spin the block and give you the first Jay-Z and Nas collaboration.
Speaker 3:Quick, yes or no. Quick yes or no Is you Can't Stop the Rain. A top five, shaq, I mean a big guest appearance.
Speaker 5:Going through it in my head Victory is number one for me. Top ten. Top ten. I got Keep the hands high. I hold that in high regard. Tracy Lee, yeah, I hold that in high regard. Then I got the Total Joint, can't you See?
Speaker 1:um, yeah.
Speaker 3:I can get with the Total Joint. I can get with the Tracy Lee Get Money Remix.
Speaker 5:Get Money Remix. Yeah, you know what's weird? Them didn't even cross my mind because I act like those are big songs, but yeah, that's, that's a feature. They keep going. And, um, that would be four. I'm trying to think of the fifth Flavoring Year Remix.
Speaker 3:Flavoring Year Remix. Yeah, that would be five. Yeah, flavoring Year would be fifth.
Speaker 5:Yep, there we go.
Speaker 3:What about Dolly my Baby? Do you think you Can't Stand the Rain is better than Dolly my Baby. Yes, okay, I would agree. Better Than Only you. Yes, better than Be Happy. R Kelly, yes, what you're saying is about top five or six.
Speaker 5:No lower than seven or eight. It's between seven and eight.
Speaker 3:Seven or eight.
Speaker 1:I think that's pretty epic.
Speaker 3:Seeing how a basketball player is on the record. I think that's pretty epic. Seeing how, seeing how a basketball player is on the record, I think that's pretty epic yeah.
Speaker 1:I can't wait for that.
Speaker 5:I don't know man Young G's, though.
Speaker 3:He went crazy on that actually that's the one song where I feel like Jay may have got him.
Speaker 5:I feel like he's got him on Brooklyn Finest. I think Jay got him on.
Speaker 3:I Love the Dough. I feel like that's a draw. At best he's got Jay on Brooklyn's Finest. It's a draw on I Love the Dough, but I'll give Young G's to Jay. Actually, I don't know about that, I can't do that. Let me get Michael.
Speaker 1:Williams real quick. Michael Williams said that the Common and Pete Rock rollout has been immaculate, loving the aesthetic. They've tapped into not just the music but the videos and artwork too. Album of the year, no doubt. Michael Williams also said Young Jee's is top five big feature. He switched gears crazy, got lawyers watching lawyers so I won't go broke. He went crazy on that, um kenley said lizzie, you wouldn't survive in the 90s, maybe the early 2000s. K dot would probably survive. Appreciate you guys with the super chat oh, go ahead, bro.
Speaker 3:You think good kid, mad City is better than Muddy Waters by Redman.
Speaker 5:I'm going to move on from Kendrick man.
Speaker 3:I don't want to talk about Kendrick. No more, I'm just asking questions.
Speaker 5:Yes for me it is, but I love Muddy Waters.
Speaker 3:If Redman and Black Thought and Prodigy and Raekwon were having trouble getting top five consideration. Trouble, think about this they're having trouble getting top five consideration.
Speaker 5:So two days ago was the 28th anniversary of Reasonable Doubt. You can't help it, man, you cannot help it Yo, we had a whole bar seminar for Jay. Let's switch gears to Jay man.
Speaker 3:Can I help it? You handle the bar seminar. I'm going to recover from all this. You just can't help it. No, because I'm tired of people getting at me. It's like, motherfucker, you don't know me Like I don't know you either. You going to see me outside one day and talk this shit to me. What the fuck, yo man?
Speaker 5:the fuck yo, man I wouldn't advise doing that reasonable doubt man, reasonable doubt yo. I want to say something real quick about reasonable doubt.
Speaker 5:Man like um take all the time you need you know, like Cooper saying, definitely a top 20 rap album. Some people maybe could argue you know 15 to 10 range. But a lot of people were late, you know late bloomers when it came to being put up for Unreasonable Doubt. You know, like Jay said, I gave you Prophecy on my first joint. Then you all named out didn't really appreciate it until the second one came out, you know. But I can honestly say that I was one of those people who was on the boat early when Reasonable Doubt first dropped and I thought it was an amazing album then and I remember specifically how I came across that album because you know. You know about being in Charlotte, you know all about carowinds. You know what I'm saying. So from West Virginia, I worked at carowinds. You know what I'm saying so.
Speaker 3:Uh, from west virginia, say what I worked. I worked at carowinds. Oh, that's what's up.
Speaker 5:Okay, my second job was at carowinds. Oh, that's what's up. So this is 96. I don't know if you're there, you know yeah, I worked.
Speaker 3:I worked in the little caesars in carowinds 96.
Speaker 5:That's what's up. That's what's up. So we was taking it was a church youth group trip and we was taking a van down to carowinds. You know what I'm saying and I remember the church van from West Virginia the church van is wild, I see.
Speaker 3:I see, I see three white girls in the back rolling up weed and smoking out the window or the school bus.
Speaker 5:It was all, it was all. It was all blacks, it was all black.
Speaker 3:Actually, it looked just like the good kid mad city van, but I don't want to get you triggered coops. I love good kid. Mad city, I love it.
Speaker 5:It's a great but for real we was, uh, we was headed down to carowinds and I remember I packed um three cassettes for my, you know, walkman or whatever I had. Well, I actually only had two. I had it Was Written which came out, you know, a week later, on July 2nd, and I had NWA's Greatest Hits. That just came out. And I remember I was listening to the NWA's Greatest Hits and one of my homies was like yo, why are you listening to that old stuff? And I was like, come on, fam, this is, like you know, classic material right here. He was like man, you need to be up on. This joint that you know just came out. And he pulled out it was written.
Speaker 5:I was like I already got that. You know what I'm saying. I'm like, you know, been on that. It's dope, you know. And then he was like, okay, but have you heard this though? And he pulled out reasonable doubt. And I was like, nah, I haven't, and you know. And then I recognized the name jay-z and I was like, okay, that's homie from the nutty professor soundtrack. There ain't no nigga joint. And then I had seen the dare president's one video. He let me play his, um, you know, reasonable doubt cassette. Man, I don't even think I gave that joint back coming off the trip. Man, I was like really into that album that I mean hearing the Evils and Can I Live. And you know, dead Presidents 2, which that's a whole nother story, cause I was pissed off, like you know, realizing that Dead Presidents 2 on the album wasn't the same as the video for Dead Presidents 1. Then I went on a wild goose chase to find the Dead Presidents 1 and I ended up getting it on a single.
Speaker 3:So let me interrupt you right quick, AG. You think Dead Presidents 1 is better than Dead Presidents 2?
Speaker 5:Dead Presidents 2 is better, but I think the lore of Dead Presidents 1 that it wasn't as easily accessible, you know, was one of those things. Like it drove me crazy that I could never find it. But I did end up getting it on a single, like later down the road. But you know, my homie put me up on the album. I was like yo, this is one of the best albums I've ever heard. Like I was thinking that in 96. And you know, from that day on, like I, that day on, like I always thought it was a five mic classic and, um, you know, one of the best albums ever.
Speaker 5:And jay-z was spitting on that joint, um, like I said, the evils, can I live their presidents too. Even his verse on, oh, all the verses on, bring it on love, that I mean he had some of the greatest production contributions. Uh, people don't talk about ski beats enough when you know Great producers, names are brought up. Clark Kent did his thing on there. You know what I mean. And then Primo, to come out the gate, like Nas, biggie and Jay-Z, primo's contributions To their debut albums Can't be, you know, overstated enough Like being blessed. And you know Jay-Z had three Primo beats On his first album, like who has that, you know, other than Nas? So that's a great album and I just wanted to put that little story out there. You know getting put up on the album when I was 15.
Speaker 1:I wasn't on it like that. To be quite honest, I'm behind on tweeting. 96 was a very strong year, coming off the heels 94, 95. So I wasn't checking for Jay like that because you got to think about what came. A week after Reasonable Doubt, it was written. It was written the week that Reasonable Doubt came out. I had it was written, the entire album. It was not a sequence, though. I had the original one. I had the one that DJ Jay Love made. At that DJ J-Love made at that time J-Love made the mixtape. It was written. It had all the songs on there. It was out of sequence but I had like a week and a half prior to the actual release. So I was still heavy on that. I was going out. That was in the summer, matter of fact. I remember I was going to a basketball camp. I was going to a basketball camp. I was going to a five-star basketball camp.
Speaker 3:Here's Sean Goh trying to make it seem like he's about to go to the league. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:Let me put that dang picture up man.
Speaker 5:No, you don't got it right by the desk.
Speaker 3:No, we don't want to see pictures. We don't want to see pictures.
Speaker 1:I was a monster. Coop, I was a monster.
Speaker 5:Was he better than Bronny?
Speaker 1:Way better. Word to Stacey Augman. Word to Stacey Augman oh.
Speaker 3:Plastic man, that's Atlanta Hawks shit Yo.
Speaker 1:Word to Stacey.
Speaker 5:Augman Stacey was dope. Unlv Stacey was a different bag.
Speaker 1:Different, different, no, no, no. Defensive player of the year calendar. Yes, sir, but um but no, I really wasn't on it.
Speaker 1:I got back, I got to reasonable doubt, probably the latter part of 96, early 97, to be quite honest because even during that time pop was coming out too and pop was ringing heavy and there was a lot going on during that time because remember, hit him up also came out over the summer. It came out the week after Reasonable Doubt. So you had a lot of stuff that came out around Reasonable Doubt. You had Hit Em Up, which was crazy. You had it Was Written, of course that was out. Then you messed around, you had Iron man that came out a couple of months later.
Speaker 5:You were still listening to.
Speaker 1:Great Planet and Cuban Lynx. Cuban Lynx is still playing, so is Liquid Sports Still. Carry over, you still got carry over To me. I lost in the shuffle. I think that's why I didn't really sell at the gate. It took time for a reason, without the sale later on because no one was checking for that type of music at that time. Because it did production wise. You got hi-hats. We weren't listening to hi-hats during that time. Right, we were listening to a lot of what RZA was producing. Rza had a salad bassline melodic piano snare, basslines and snares and pianos.
Speaker 3:We weren't listening to hi-hats. Bassline melodic piano snare.
Speaker 1:Bassline snare and piano insanity we weren't listening to hi-hats at that time. It was the mafioso Rockefeller sound, if you want to call it Rockefeller sound. But at the same time no one really knew Jay like that, because the Jay that we knew was the rat-a-tat Jay, the Iggy Flo Jay we knew the.
Speaker 1:Iggy Flo Jay. That's my star J before then was when he was on that YSOP fan video and he pulled his goofy ass out the camera with a string or something like that. It looked really weird, like the Peter Pan joint looked really weird. We were checking for him, peter Pan. He was in the Peter Pan bus. He was the Peter Pan up in the peter pan bus. You put peter banny. He was the peter pan up in the room because they put him off y'all fucking with whom?
Speaker 1:right, but y'all remember that jimmy yo when they jay was like yo. I gotta find that video. Get back to the album. They did put his goofy ass up in the air like off a string or something like Peter Pan, but that's the.
Speaker 5:JI With the Wyatt shirts.
Speaker 1:It was the Wyatt shirts, right. Right, they gave him a little chase. Yeah, it was weird man, they gave him a little chase. But I'm going to put it back to U-Cool. After I went back and listened to it, I thought it was a dope album and I left it at that, to be completely honest, I thought it was a dope album. I didn't think it was a classic in real time and I don't think it's a classic today. But that's just my opinion. I think it's a classic today. Whoa, I'm sorry, whoa.
Speaker 5:Whoa, you said that with a straight face.
Speaker 3:You're not trolling. You can't say that First. Okay, is it my turn? Cool, please. First of all, you're not allowed to say that. You're not allowed to say that. That's sacrilegious. I'm sorry, here's what I will tell you. My story, sean, is closer to yours than ag's, so I was in this program called upward bound, and so it was bad kids.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I was in upper bound was in upper bound, lifting as we climb. Lifting as we climb, I'm like, yeah, because we all trying to climb about the projects in here, some rough ass niggas up in here, oh yeah, that's where I learned how to smoke weed. In upper bound, my nigga Tiz, ida, don that's West Side Charlotte, and my man, adriel. My man's name was adriel. Yeah, wow, the nigga who taught me how to rap's name is adriel ag that's wild, that's crazy yeah, he used to be in this group called queen city kings.
Speaker 3:First off, it started out for him as him and my guy tis. I was in upper bound with these two dudes when they started the group. There was a third guy, but he wasn't the group. But these niggas from the west side of Charlotte like me, they're the ones that took me in and taught me how to rap and taught me about bars, like I used to bring them, like these three and four-page rhymes. It's like we got to teach this nigga about bars, or he's just going to rap all day in front of us. That was their thing. They taught me how to smoke too. So this is 96 Upward Bound.
Speaker 3:There was a guy named Charles Vacala. Me and Charles are still friends. Me and Adriel are still friends. Me and Tizai are still friends. There was a couple other guys. There was a guy named Lawrence Eady who was from the Bronx. There was another guy, justin Perry. No, no, no, not Justin Perry. His name was Justin. He was from Brooklyn, but it was the Nas shit.
Speaker 3:When it was written came out that all of them was up on. So the dudes. This is the year that I started rapping. I started rapping in 96. So the dudes that schooled me, it was written was what they were playing. They would literally be in the room playing Silent Murder and I gave you power, like over and over and over and over Charles Vakala. His song was Black Girl Lost. Actually he's like don't nobody know how to write a song like this. Coop Tizai and Adriel was like on the message in shootouts. They were street dudes from Charlotte, the up top dudes, justin and Lawrence. They was on I Gave you Power and Silent Murder. They was on the lyrical stuff. So I didn't even know J's album came out.
Speaker 3:We was on the bus one day. We weren't down in Daytona Beach and my man, adriel, was like it's like you've been playing, it Was Written this whole trip. First of all, it wasn't my tape. I didn't have no damn money. He's like give me my fucking tape back. But he gave me reasonable doubt about the lyrical level that nas is operating on. On it was written and this is why I call it arguably the best mic performance ever. I couldn't really hear jay like that. So I listened to reasonable doubt one time on that bus. I was like good album. Not, it was written. He's not nas guys got a lot of potential. We'll see what's happened.
Speaker 3:When I ended up going to West Charlotte later that year so this is August, so probably by September I got cool with this guy named Jay Barber. Jay Barber was part of this group called the 58 Squadron. His name was called the Marvelous Assassin. They were on their Wu-Tang shit. He's like yo, he's like yo, he's like.
Speaker 3:I've been playing this reasonable doubt album for like nine straight days. I'm pretty certain it's some of the best shit I ever heard. I was like let me hold it. And so he gave me the cd out of his walkman. So I'd never seen the cover of reasonable doubt before. I'd only gotten it on a tape on a bus and my man passed me the cover. When he passed me the cover it was all blurry and I looked down. I said is that a gun on the concrete? Because that's what's on the CD cover, because I hadn't seen Jay in the suit or any of that. So I didn't know what the cover looked like with him in the hat. I didn't know about that, I just knew about the actual thing that said Rockefeller records with the gun and the concrete on the ground and it said reasonable doubt. Okay, so I can remember taking that walk man, my walk man, home and playing reasonable doubt with a clear conscience for the first time, because by now it was written a reasonable doubt.
Speaker 3:I've been out for about three months and I sat down and I listened and I was like, first of this nigga is going to jail. He's going directly to jail, not pass, go, not collect $200. You're not allowed to talk like this on record. I don't think people understand this when I'm saying this. The cats that I knew that talked the way Jay talked were already locked up. Yeah, they were indicted. They were gone.
Speaker 3:Like my mom used to date somebody who was from brooklyn. We used to go visit him while he was in prison. He talked the way jay talked. That's why I was like no, I'm like this nigga next, because he doing what fucking mom's like? No, no, I was like I know this nigga.
Speaker 3:But then I started listening to like the actual the evils, friend or foe. Can I, can I Live Politics as Usual. Those were the records that stood out to me and I realized something. He's talking about this in a manner nobody's talked about it before. He made it approachable, he made it conversational Even though he was a bad guy. This is the best rap album where somebody is like a bad guy but they don't come off like a bad guy at all. You actually end up rooting for them, and that's the beautiful thing about reasonable doubt is, is that much like scarface with al pacino? It found you rooting for the bad guy because you felt like you understood the bad guy more than you understood the good guy. So it revealed something psychologically about the circumstances that we came from. Even if you wasn't a hustling ass nigga like the hustlers, all were all drawn to it.
Speaker 3:But the thing about it is that he got the hustlers and the mc's. But there is an emotional buy-in to reasonable doubt and the only other emotional buy-ins we have like that or about more positive and conscious music. He has us emotionally involved in the dope game on reasonable doubt. You understand that. He has us rooting for him like nobody's rooting for cool g rapper ice t. Nobody's rooting for cool g rapper ice t. You're rooting for j Jay when you hear him because he's like man, this nigga nice, and when he's talking about it he's making me understand what his plight and the struggle looks like On Politics, as Usual.
Speaker 3:That's the song that made me a fan, because when he said ain't no stopping the champagne from popping, the draws from dropping the law from watching, it's not that he said I hate him, it's the way that he said I hate him because I was like, oh shit, he hate him the way I do, just about a totally different sense of circumstances. He made his struggle relatable to whatever your struggle was. It's one of the greatest pull-offs in rap history. It is because I didn't understand the shit that he was talking about on reasonable doubt till I got some money but lyrically and emotionally understood and felt him on a level that I shouldn't have felt him at 15 years old.
Speaker 3:You know what I'm saying when we're saying that we posted on the bar seminar, thinking back when we first learned to use rubbers. He didn't learn, so in return, I'm kidnapping his baby's mother. I just first learned to use rubbers he didn't learn, so in return, I'm kidnapping his baby's mother. I just learned how to use rubbers, nigga, you feel what I'm saying. When he's saying that line, thinking back when we first learned to use rubbers, I'm thinking like, well damn, that just happened to me. I just learned how to roll back a rubber. You know what I'm saying? So when he's saying stuff like that, he knew how to relate to you fundamentally as a black man coming from impoverished society, and he actually made the hustler's life sound exciting and very bleak and frightening at the same time. It's a more of a cautionary tale than it is a get involved tale. Right, he's not telling you to get involved. That's why he says on the blueprint no hove did that. So hopefully you don't have to go through that. Reasonable doubt is the go through that he's talking about.
Speaker 1:No doubt.
Speaker 5:He was speaking from a vantage point of a grown man, because people forget that when he released that, he was what? 27?.
Speaker 3:He's 26, going on 27 reasons.
Speaker 1:Now I said he was 36 in a karate class right, alright, so don't do that.
Speaker 5:We talking about Brooklyn today the vantage point that he was, that he was coming from, because we were used to debut artists being young, like not much older than what you know, me and you are the same age, coop. We was you too, sean. We was all yeah, we was all 15 and 96. So, like rappers that were debut and they were like early 20s at most. But he was speaking from the vantage point of a grown man who had been in the game and it's like his talk was heavy. It was different, you know.
Speaker 3:So this is what's so. This is what's special about it was written. Nas is 21 when it was written comes out and so, lyrically, when you look at somebody, it's like you're doing that at 21 years old?
Speaker 5:no, he was uh 20, 22, going on 23, I think I'm not sure about that, because I was born in 70 not born in 73, september 73, so he a few months later he would have been 23 okay, so, but that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 3:So when he's writing it was written, he's 21. Oh, like piecing it, yeah, yeah right, yeah jay is 26 27 when he's piecing reasonable doubt together yeah so you're talking about?
Speaker 3:okay, that's ridiculous, that is absurd. That's but what? But what I'm saying is is that jay most was ahead of the curve because he was late to the party. He was ahead of the curve because he was late to the party? Oh, it was in all of them, yeah.
Speaker 3:So when he's talking about the things that he's talking about, it's like hold on, how long has this nigga been in the streets? He like what? Because you're used to your rappers being like 19, 20, 21, 22. Right. So when he's talking the stuff that he's talking, he's talking like a seasoned vet. Do you want to know why he's talking like a seasoned vet? Because he is a seasoned vet. He's been out on the streets for a while. He's not a 20 year old running the streets. This is a 26, 27 year old dude that has built up a little empire entourage and has got a clique of people that's all getting money together. That's different than Prodigy saying he's going to rock you in your face and stab your brain with your nose bone. That's different. That's 20-year-old talk. That's what Prodigy's doing in the tunnel at 20 years old.
Speaker 3:Jay is like yeah, I'm pulling up in a Lexus. The feds are watching me. It's like the feds are watching you. It's like, and you're saying this on record. It's like is this nigga crazy? It's like no, he's not crazy, he wants out. And that's the beautiful thing about Reasonable Doubt. Never have I heard an album where somebody wanted out of what they were doing, more than that album he wants out. He's like oh, it's what I thought it was. It's like they didn't indict him, they didn't send him to jail. He's out, he's free. That's what he wanted. Let's see what he do with it. You want to know what he did with it. He took the rap game.
Speaker 1:He did and he kept facing Fox Push.
Speaker 5:during that time she had the best verse on that album.
Speaker 4:You were doing the tribute right. You were doing the tribute right.
Speaker 5:That's a tribute.
Speaker 1:That's what I said. I said that because you kept your face in the push. That's what he's like.
Speaker 5:She didn't have the best verse on the album. Stop it. You messed him up with that.
Speaker 3:He did go on tour with R Kelly okay, so yo best of let me ask you something where do you have reasonable doubt? Okay, so I'm gonna name some albums right quick and you tell me if reasonable doubt is better than these albums. Is it better than Illmatic, no. Is it better than Itmatic, no, no. Is it better than it Takes a Nation of Millions?
Speaker 1:No no.
Speaker 3:Is it greater than the Chronic or Doggy Style?
Speaker 1:No, the both.
Speaker 3:Into the Wu-Tang or Only Built for Cuban Links. No and no, it's Dark and Hell is Hot. That's a conversation, okay, so we got six right now. Get rich or die trying.
Speaker 5:No.
Speaker 3:Conversation. Okay, so we'll see if that sets the low-end theory.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 3:I prefer reason.
Speaker 1:It's not being low-end theory.
Speaker 3:I think the low-end theory is better from beginning to end, although I prefer reasonable doubt. Objectively, I think the low-end theory is better from beginning to end. Just speaking, the Infamous by Mobb Deep.
Speaker 5:Conversation no.
Speaker 3:So we'll keep it at seven Ready to die and life after death.
Speaker 5:I got reasonable over ready to die, but not life after death. I don't have it over either one. I don't hold ready to die. Me and Sean had this discussion on Stationhead. I don't hold ready to die. Me and Sean had this discussion on Stationhead. I don't hold ready to die as high as reasonable doubt. I really don't. I think the singles, that the remixes and stuff that are not actually on the album is why people propel that album so high. I think, like you say, coop, the better end-to-end player give me reasonable doubt. Is Equimini better than Reasonable Doubt.
Speaker 3:Is Equimini better than Reasonable Doubt?
Speaker 5:Equimini is stellar, but I'm an ATLians guy so I'm going to say I prefer Reasonable Doubt.
Speaker 3:So right now we have nine albums that we say succinctly are better than reasonable doubt. Moment of truth by gangstar Give me reasonable, paid in full by rock him, rock him. So it's not a top 10 rap album, liquid swords I prefer liquid. I prefer liquid swords. How about this? The beats and the rhymes are better on Liquid Swords, actually, but there's something about the talk that's special. On Reasonable Doubt, the talk is special. How about this? Reasonable Doubt is a better solo mission than Liquid Swords. Liquid Swords is bone chilling.
Speaker 3:You think it's better than Supreme Is Reasonable Doubt. Better than Supreme? No For me, yes, for me, it's better than Supreme.
Speaker 1:Is Reasonable. Doubt better than Supreme? No for me, yes For me it's not.
Speaker 3:So what we have is a top 10 to 15 rap album Of all time. You understand, most people when it came out didn't even have it as a top Five rap album. That year they had the score. It was written all eyes. Is it all eyes on me? Better than Reasonable Doubt.
Speaker 1:I Personally I wouldn't, but I can see people Putting it over.
Speaker 5:I got reasonable. Muddy Waters I got reasonable.
Speaker 1:I got reasonable with Muddy Waters slightly is it?
Speaker 5:better than it was written but a lot of the stuff.
Speaker 3:Like you said, cooper is retrospectively is it better than it was written? No, it was written higher. So what you're saying is that Nas has two of the top 15 rap retrospective.
Speaker 1:Is it better than it was written?
Speaker 3:No it was written higher, I didn't close. So what you're saying is that Nas has two of the top 15 rap albums of all time and Jay has one. Yes. That would be the separation in the GOAT conversation. Absolutely, that's the separation.
Speaker 5:Not even all time. I'm naming two Nas albums before I get to the first best J album. You know what I mean. And then Jay's second best album is neck and neck with still Matic, so it's like you know what I mean.
Speaker 3:Like no, I'm just. I'm just asking questions for context, because when people tell, when I tell people that he's not my goat, this is what I'm talking about he doesn't have a top 10 rap album.
Speaker 5:You got to break it down. People just be making blanket statements, but they don't want to really parse it out, so yeah, and I want to be clear Because you say that, ag.
Speaker 1:I want to be clear as well Because I don't want people to think I'm just hating on Jay. I'm not. I think Jay's in my top five. But if honest, if I can be very transparent here, lines were drawn back there in 95 and 96 for me as well, because at that time you was either on Nas Ray Mobb D's side or you were on Big or Jay's side.
Speaker 5:We did a whole show on this then.
Speaker 1:Exactly. There was no in-between For me. It was difficult for me to say well, I wasn't even rocking way big at that time. I'll be honest with you guys, I appreciated big but I wasn't rocking with big. But I was freestyling for this A&R guy. He had to stop me mid-sentence because I did a. I said I'm a bad bad boy, I'm 15, 14 years old, did some bad boy and freestyle to an A&R guy who's worked for Arista. How about this style to an A&R guy?
Speaker 3:who's worked for Arista. How about this? I feel like I don't know. If Big is a top five, how about this? I've never seen a guy like Big not be a top five MC. I don't think he's a top five MC on Ready to Die.
Speaker 5:That's why I don't hold it as high. That's what I keep saying.
Speaker 3:But listen to what I'm saying. But I think life after death is a top five Mike performance ever and I've never seen somebody top three Like I, literally like for me.
Speaker 3:For me it goes. It was written let the rhythm hit them life after death. In terms of Mike performances for one album, I've never seen a guy, I've never seen a guy that I didn't think was a top five MC on his first album deliver a top five mic performance all time on his second album His jump is astounding. And so between Big's jump, pac's stature and quality of All Eyes On Me because although I put Reasonable Doubt ahead of All Eyes on Me overall, I don't think book one of All Eyes on Me is better than Reasonable Doubt to me. And so the struggle that I have with putting Jay where other people put Jay is like well, there's Nas on Illmatic, and it Was Written. There's Big on Life After Death and there's Pac on Life After Death and there's Pop on All Eyes on Me, and this is when Jay is coming out. And so when those guys were all alive, yes, and he was outside, yes, he was fourth at best on a good day, not even that, because you got to talk about prodigy.
Speaker 5:You got to talk about prodigy. I said a good day.
Speaker 3:I said a good day, not even that because you got to talk about prodigy. You got to talk about prodigy. I said a good day. I said a good day.
Speaker 5:Ice Cube, today was a good day, Right, but I'm glad you brought up the mic performance. Me Against the World is Pac's best album, but for me his best mic performance is Machiavelli.
Speaker 3:His best mic performance to me is All Eyes on Me, book one. I think he was a better lyricist on Machiavelli. Personally I think he's a better overall MC on Machiavelli, but I don't think he's a better like. The songs on All Eyes on Me book one are just bigger and better than all the stuff on Reasonable Doubt. Jay doesn't know, how to make a. How Do you?
Speaker 5:Want it or I Ain't. Mad At you the production.
Speaker 3:All About you, hearts of Men, california Love no.
Speaker 5:More Pain. Those are the songs, though those are the songs.
Speaker 3:No it's too much. Very few rap albums have as much heat as All Eyes on.
Speaker 1:Me. He was balanced on All Eyes on Me.
Speaker 3:If All Eyes on Me is just one CD and you just take, literally, if you just take Picture Me rolling and put it on book one of All Eyes on Me, I feel like that's a top five to eight rap album.
Speaker 5:Yeah, that's fair, but it's the songs Like Maccabelli is what I present to people that say Pop wasn't a lyricist, like the Biggs, jays and Nas, like when I put on Maccabelli I hear a guy that's a lyricist that can rap on that level. You know what I mean but, the production wasn't there on that album he hadn't ascended.
Speaker 3:To think about this, pac was three years younger than Jay when he died. Imagine if Pac would have made it to 27, 28. That's why I was like, when we talk about like goat conversation, yeah, imagine if Pac would have made it to 27, 28. That's why I was like like, when we talk about like goat conversation, it's like, let's remind ourselves, tupac died at 25. Because had he lived, I don't think we'd be having a conversation.
Speaker 5:And that includes with Nas. Yeah, but Nas was that guy when everybody was walking around. So he was the guy they were afraid of because lyrically he was the most inclined, he didn't have the start, the notoriety. Well, you know it was written he did.
Speaker 3:But how about this? Nas is the guy that bothered big and pock when they were at their peak. What does that tell you about him?
Speaker 5:yeah, there we go. Yeah, but before before, before we get up out of here, let's say one thing real quick, because I know we've been on here long. Yo, joe Budden got to stop, joe Budden got to stop, joe got to stop.
Speaker 3:No, no, no. We need to talk about Joe. We need to talk about a couple more things. Let's do a quick rundown before we go. Yeah.
Speaker 5:The Joe thing got me tight because, even if it's married to what he was saying like, let Kendrick, you know, regardless of what coop gotta say, let kendrick have his moment and don't try to attach yourself to it. What this reminds me of it reeks of like lebron saying you know, I wish kairi was still my running mate when the mavericks made it to the finals. Like it's gonna, I'm gonna insert myself in the conversation because I have a voice so it could be a hot button topic and people can talk about me when they talk about what's going on. You know LeBron did it for the NBA finals when he's at home.
Speaker 5:Joe Budden dissed Drake, you know, five or so years ago and I was one who championed those, uh, those songs, but now's not the time to bring that up and attach yourself to Kendrick. Yeah, he might've took some elements from what you did, but let's be real. Like you have to be in the same weight class to take down somebody like Drake and I'm not mean just lyrically, cause we know button is a spitter, but somebody who the fans are going to respect. You know, going at Drake and Joe didn't even garner enough. You know, moving the needle for Drake to even respond really. And even when Pusha exposed Drake and beat him, it was a lot of contingent of Drake fans that didn't even care because of who Pusha T was in, his stature and, plus, drake was on, you know, still at an all time high. But now that Drake fatigue is a real thing and Kendrick is something that came at him, who was also in his weight class, that makes a difference. I think it's wild corny for Joe to come out and try to. It's like he had an epiphany or something in trying to attach himself to Kendrick's victory, saying I passed the baton to Pusha and then Pusha passed it to Kendrick. It's just. It's just nasty work, man, like you're, you're.
Speaker 5:This is the Drake was dope, don't get me wrong, but don't try to like say that's like a playoff team. You know a team goes and wins the NBA finals, that's a juggernaut. But the team they beat in the first uh, the team they beat in the first round says, oh, okay, you know they only won the championship. I mean, I'm sorry, the team that beat the juggernaut in the championship round, the first round team that got put out saying, yo, they only used our strategies and that's the only way that they beat them. Well, it was a reason why they was in the finals and they won and you didn't. You know what I'm saying. So you got to eat that. So, joe, I don't like him attaching himself to this whole thing. It's crazy.
Speaker 3:Sean, you mind if I jump in right quick, please, please. Joe Budden saying this. Here's what I unpack about what he's really saying it literally takes a lineage and an army and a team of you and a decade to take one guy out. This is more credit to Drake than people are realizing, because what Joe is essentially saying is that, well, I couldn't finish the job so I had to push it to Pusher and after I pushed it to Pusher, pusher pushed it to Kendrick to Kendrick. If it's taking the three of you guys to beat this one guy, you're solidifying his status by saying that, because what you're saying is that this has been a decade-long industry journey by other MCs in the industry to remove this guy from the placement because you don't like him and you feel like he's getting in the way.
Speaker 3:You're actually admitting his greatness when you're saying this like this is the part that I really took away from, because what you're really saying is, well, it's very biggie like. In the sense it's like, well, the shark biter skit can't take you down. A prime naz can't take you down. Tupac dissing you can't take you down. Only thing that can take you down is you dying, because you're great and so you're admitting how great he is.
Speaker 3:When you're saying this, you're admitting the fact that it's literally taking 10 years in different MC's from different regions, as in Jersey, virginia and California.
Speaker 3:It is literally taking you a decade tons of this is tons of subs to just think about this, to just make this guy's fire a quiet storm, because that's what it is right now.
Speaker 3:It's not that the fire, it's just a quiet storm right now, because the reality of the matter is like people are like well, he's going to come back and do numbers for it because he's drake, but it's never going to be the same.
Speaker 3:It's like, well, I could have told you that about jay, but the reality of the matter is, because of his status, stat, stature, well, even though the music may not have been the same, you see, just made number one on this forbes list, right like. So I think, in hindsight, what he's really done is actually give credence to how drake is really feared by these guys, more than we've really been letting on, and how solid his stature is, because, think about it, drake ain't been focused on taking them out. They've been focusing on taking him out. Yeah, why is that? And I say this as a Pusha T fan that's excited for this new Clips album as anybody could be like I can't wait till this shit drop and we talk about it. But, objectively speaking, it's like well, jolin, and credence to the fact of how big this man's stature is, yeah.
Speaker 5:And can I add something to that real quick before you jump in, sean? I like what you said, coop, about emcees from different regions, because the tidal wave that's like really hurting Drake right now is the West being galvanized and the biggest part of the West being galvanized and I call Sean the morning that it dropped. I hated when the Taylor made freestyle Came out because I think that was when everything changed. People will tell you that Meet the Grams was when the battle was won by Kendrick because he stepped on Family Matters. For me, the battle he shot himself in the foot during the TaylorMade Freestyle because that was a high-risk, low-reward, big-time gamble using pop, ai and Snoop, but mostly pop, because I don't know what he was thinking, that he was going to do that and win over fans, if anything, you were going to offend you know people on the West coast by doing that and then galvanize them.
Speaker 5:And then Kendrick, he comes in and he's very smart, he's cerebral to say that it's not just me, it's what the culture is feeling, and then come behind that and make a West Coast anthem that everybody gets behind. And then it Taylor made is essentially the only song he really replies to because he keeps bringing up the pot disrespect. He even wrote a new line for you, for you, saying give me Pac's ring back and I'll have you some respect. So he's using the buzzwords. Like you know what I mean. Like you know, we think we're going to let you disrespect Pac Like we. Like you're not like us. He's grouping the whole coast and that was the title wave called segregation, it's called segregation.
Speaker 5:And then Sean told me back then he was like yo, he was like I don't like where it's going because it's drawing regional lines.
Speaker 3:But look what that did. Kendrick drew the regional lines. Kendrick drew the regional lines, not Drake. Purposely no, that's what. I'm saying, that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 5:Yeah, Kendrick drew those regional lines. Hedrick drew those regional lines. But it was smart to cause this tidal wave in the battle and that came from the Taylor May freestyle, because him using Pac was him shooting himself in the foot, because nobody on the West Coast rocked with that.
Speaker 3:Nobody. I get what you're saying. How about this? Location matters when it comes to battle? Absolutely, absolutely, yeah, absolutely, absolutely, yeah, absolutely, okay. So.
Speaker 3:So let's go something back, this near and dear to Southerners hearts, down here in Atlanta, georgia, the civil war was one when Sherman was able to come down here and take the railroads in Atlanta, because the railroads in Atlanta were the Confederacy's pipeline. And so, while I agree with everything that you're saying, strategically, what the union did when they took Atlanta was that they divided it off. Location matters. And so Kendrick, dividing it off the way that he did, that's an art of war tactic. Yep, so he's using the art of war tactic. Yep, so he's using the art of war better than Drake in a hip hop spear. Not only did he divide it, but the best song of this battle is a song called not like us. It further separates. It's like it's like this general Sherman in the Union Army had already seized Atlanta. I live on the top side of Atlanta, like they came down here first. There are markers all around my side of town about when the Union came in and pretty much took the shit from the Confederacy, but about 20 miles south of here. When they took Atlanta when they won the war.
Speaker 3:But they really won the war when they separated the geographics. So Kendrick separated the geographics. So Kendrick separated the geographics. And then he did just what Sherman did Not like us. It's him burning the city down. He didn't mean to burn the city down, he just wanted to burn down the means of transportation, the railroad line. The main railroad line was in Atlanta, so he burned that. So all Kendrick did with Not Like Us is light, a match for what he already separated. This is art of war. So he won. He won by using these tactics. That's why I tell people it's like oh no, he won. He wanted the art of war, and in hip-hop, part of the art of war is to create the separation. And then let's see who makes the best song. He made the best song, and then the best song is not only the best song, and then the best song is not only the best song, but it's a separation song you not like us.
Speaker 5:It's the verbiage Because, like I said, he didn't say I. He said you think we going to let you disrespect Pop. Not you think I'm. He said you think we going to let you disrespect Pop. But part of that's Drake's fault too, because he said I get more love in your city than you.
Speaker 3:he did say that oh, I mean that's that's what he's supposed to say yeah, and he probably did. That's like when Jay says I probably got more shooters and queens than you.
Speaker 1:You're supposed to say that it's a battle both were false you have one or two, it doesn't matter it doesn't matter what the truth is.
Speaker 3:It matters what the people believe and people believe it to be the truth and the majority believes it to be the truth. That's what it is. So he created the separation and the best records called not like us battle over. It's called not like us for a reason because the art of war, the way he dictated the pace of it, separation. I'm going to separate myself and unite my coast in the process. That's why he's bringing up the whole colonization in Atlanta thing. He's setting up the not like us. Yeah, he's setting it up, but do you?
Speaker 5:do you agree Like to my point about the Taylor made basically setting him up to do that, because if Drake doesn't make that move, I think this might go a little bit differently okay, so here's what that is.
Speaker 3:That's like the battle at Fort Sumter it matters, but it's not what won the war. It's one of those setup moves that has it starts to reveal itself. It's like oh, that was a nice little play that came to fruition later on. You know, I think Drake thought it was going to be clever, like, oh, that was a nice little play that came to fruition later on.
Speaker 5:I think Drake thought it was going to be clever to like, oh, I'm going to use your idols to get at you, right.
Speaker 3:But the hearting ended up getting flipped on his head the heart of war works like this In order to defeat thine enemy, you must know thine enemy and then think like thine enemy. Kendrick just thought like drake did. That's why not like us is so big. It's like no, that's more of a drake song than a kendrick song. That's the part of this battle that nobody's talking about. It's like it's not the fact that he beat him, it's the fact that he beat him at his own game. It's like anything you can do, I can do better. I can do anything better than you. He beat him at his own game. He beat him with a banger. He didn't beat him with a scathing East Coast-centered lyrical rant like we would expect from a Kendrick Lamar. He beat him with a party anthem.
Speaker 5:Yeah, and to Joe's point, joe did the approach of I'm going to release a whole EP of this, it's like five or six. And then see what that does. He didn't win.
Speaker 3:He didn't win. He tried to beat Joe, tried, joe tried to beat Drake at Joe's game. And that's not going to work when you don't have the bigger following. Kendrick beat Drake at Drake's game, right, joe?
Speaker 1:tried to muscle it, and I'm going to address Joe like that, because Joe shout out to Joe Joe, you know something to South Carolina? Shout out to Joe Joe tried to muscle that battle and it didn't work.
Speaker 3:They all tried to muscle Drake, kendrick didn't muscle.
Speaker 1:Drake. They thought that they could say the most scathing things and they can get under his skin and they can play on some of the things that he's taught, and it didn't work. We saw that before, fellas Remember.
Speaker 3:So imagine this. I don't mean to cut you off. Imagine this is like the old world and you have a guy that's running the biggest empire and because he's running the biggest empire, over the course of his reign you've seen all types of challengers all come all types of ways and no matter what they're able to take from them, they can't stop his reign. But you have another guy that's been running the kingdom and he hasn't been involved in the war, he's just been running his kingdom. But the whole time he's been running his kingdom he's been watching everybody attack this guy's kingdom and try to figure out a way to break him down. And nobody's been able to really infiltrate fully and break him down. Even for the victories that people have been able to claim like a push of T, there's been no detraction from this man's kingdom.
Speaker 3:But you have a King who's been sitting over here that hasn't been engaged in war, has in, he's not. Has war, weary His army, his army is not dilapidated because he has not deployed his soldiers yet. Yep, drake has been having to deploy his soldiers, yet yep, drake has been having to deploy his soldiers in battle. Common drake, push your teeth. You get what I'm saying constantly.
Speaker 3:And so what happens with an empire is is that? Well, when you keep on having the fight, you're going to lose more battles. You're going to lose more soldiers. It's going to take longer to recuperate. Meanwhile, you have this king sitting over here with his kingdom. All his soldiers are fresh, they haven't been deployed to any of these battles. He's just been over here running his own kingdom watching this other guy's kingdom that's been around longer than his kingdom survive all of these shots and he's just waiting like as soon as he gets weak, as soon as his soldiers are dilapidated, I'm going to come take his kingdom. It's the art of war, it's the smart move, absolutely, and we gotta take hands off for that.
Speaker 3:You gotta. You gotta give him his props for that. He understood the art of war and he waited, he waited, he waited till it'd been years since. Like, let's not, let me not talk about kendrick's lack of quality album and music production. Drake has been suffering from some of the same things as kendrick, but not as respected as the mc in the hip-hop community. When you look back on it retrospectively, no matter what side you chose, kendrick operated more like an intelligent veteran, but his soldiers were fresh and new, like they were on the come up. He had both sides of the game lock. He had the fresh soldiers because he hadn't been war tested, but he also had the luxury of getting to sit back and watch everybody Chink at the armor, chink at the armor, chink at the armor, chink at the armor. Oh, now I can strike. That's why it's not the same.
Speaker 3:They chink at the armor. Chink at the armor. Oh, now I can strike. That's why it's not the same. They're not fighting. They're not fighting the same battle. One guy has been in battle constantly the last 10 years. The other guy just stepped in. Of course, like looking back on it, it's like, oh no, even though I don't like the music, he's the fresher guy the fresher guy going to win the fight.
Speaker 5:Nah, that Drake's army was war weary, right. So even Kendrick, if he's sitting back watching Chinkskill put in the armor, he still didn't even move in on his attack until he saw another kingdom move in on their attack, which would be Future and Metro. So he said, oh, are they moving? I'm going to hop over here with them and move too.
Speaker 3:How many guys have attacked Kendrick other than Drake? And think about all the guys that have attacked Drake Like think about it you know, Scale not balanced. Scale not balanced.
Speaker 1:But that's one of the reasons why I slightly disagree with you guys. Because victory defeated Drake, that's what hurt him. He was winning even when he was losing. Because victory defeated Drake, that's what hurt him. He was winning even when he was losing. Because we saw Tommy get at him, we saw Pistachio get at him. Think about with Jay. Do we remember, jay, your felony when he dissed Jay? We don't remember that.
Speaker 5:I mean, I remember Jay lighting him up real quick, right.
Speaker 1:Do you remember when Mace and Nino and those guys got at Jay? We don't remember that. I mean, I remember Jay lighting him up real quick, right? Do you remember when Mace and Nino and those guys got at Jay? We don't remember that. Remember when.
Speaker 1:Jadakiss tapped them when LL tapped them, when Prodigy tapped them. These are guys who can actually get at you in the booth. They were tapping them, but Jay was so far gone at that time that it didn't matter who was punching at him. You were punching them, you can get out and do whatever you want to do. And it wasn't doing nothing to him. We knew that because they weren't strong enough, they didn't have the grit to do that. Only one person could get J and it had to be a certain way to get J.
Speaker 1:Nas couldn't do what Nas wanted to do in the beginning to get J. When we had interviewed DJ Paul, Baby Paul. And he said when he was doing the first rendition of Building Destroy. And he was telling Nas yo, you can't do that, You're about to mess it all up, Don't do that. And we've heard stories about the first rendition of Ether right, where it was different, totally different, because he was ready, Queen's Wolf, he's ready. And at the time Nas saw he was vicious. At that time he was about to go at Jay in a whole different way, Whole different way. Nas didn't want to do, he didn't really want to go back and forth, he wanted to put the blanket to the head. That's the energy that he was on. But then he had to go back and be scientific about it. He had to go back and say you know what? The only way I can get Jay at this point is to sun him, Because no one who was alive at that time other than Nas was in a position to sun Jay.
Speaker 5:I say three people, sean, sorry, three people. You had Nas Jazzo, who wasn't in the same weight class, who Jay came under, and Kane. Those were the only three people walking the earth that could literally.
Speaker 3:Sanjay Kane would never do it Jazzo was not good enough to do it.
Speaker 4:And that leaves Nas, and Big wasn't here. No more Jazzo tried it. I mean first of all not good enough to do.
Speaker 3:And that leaves Nas and Big wasn't here, no more and Big wasn't here, I mean first of all first of all, if Big's here, jay's kingdom don't look like that. So there is no battle If Big, if Big not even Pac either, or if either one of those guys exists, the Jay Nas battle never happens. Big and Pac passing is what made Either. Or if either one of those guys exists, the Jay-Naz battle never happens. Big and Pac passing is what made the confrontation inevitable, because if Big's here, jay's not big enough for this.
Speaker 5:To even get to this point, I mean it became destiny, the best supposed to clash at the top. You know now, I said it as well, and they were the only two left.
Speaker 1:But yet the show. Jay, I'm the first one that was here, right.
Speaker 3:Look your blueprint. Actually, jay was here first Right.
Speaker 1:He was sitting right, but I did it at a higher clip. I was the chosen one Earlier I was chosen over you and you're older than me. I'm the chosen one.
Speaker 5:And I was that who's the best pot-nosing big Like I was that guy when they were walking around.
Speaker 1:You had to switch up to be like us, Like he's telling you the story. You had to switch up to be like us.
Speaker 5:Can I say something real quick? Sean, I watched it. This happened in real time. Remember it was an MTV interview. I watched it again on YouTube the other day, but I saw it in real time. It had RZA, wyclef Mase and Nas. They had a little roundtable discussion in 99. And RZA was talking about remembering when Jay was on the come up, rhyming with the Iggy flow. But he said Jay was crystal clear. Like you know, he stood out even with that flow because you know he was real clear. And then Nas, even back then, nas still looked at Jay. Like you know what I'm saying. He came up under us. He was like, yeah, like Nas said, he benefited from changing his style by using the style myself, you, wu-tang and Biggie ushered in. So Nas felt like that back then in 99. Like he said on the couch in the interview he didn't feel that way.
Speaker 3:It was the truth. Jigga Jay-Z, jigga like RZA, like JZA, jigga Jay-Z.
Speaker 1:It was the truth, he dismissed him. That's why Jay thought the way Nas always dismissed him.
Speaker 3:Right, well, he dismissed him because he seen him adopting the pieces of the other guys. Who was really running it. It's like I always told people. It's like, well, when people are talking about an album that talks about the life and they're like Reasonable Doubt is the Bible. It's like, well, is Reasonable Doubt better than the purple tape? Because that's a year before. Like, think about it when Jay's talking about Meyer Lansky on American Gangster in 2007,. Ray's saying that on Glaciers of Ice in 95.
Speaker 1:Meyer Lansky Crash the Fantasy, get High yeah.
Speaker 3:Jay not having Meyer Lansky talk until American Gangsta. Even the Purple Tape as far as a street album, purple Tape's just a superior street album to Reasonable Doubt at every turn. It's not anything against Jay, because even if you feel like Jay is better lyrically than Raekwon is on Only Built for Cuban Links, it doesn't make the album better. It doesn't make the album better. It doesn't make the time better. It doesn't change the timestamp either. It's a full. It's literally a full year before you come out with your debut album and your debut album took another six months to catch same steam. So we're talking about 18 month gap. So when Nas is saying the things that he's saying, he's speaking from the the perspective of watching that happen in real time.
Speaker 1:Right While your album is coming out.
Speaker 3:I'm still lyrically better than you and I'm number one on the charts.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's why it happened to him lightly. Ll wanted to engage Jay to battle, but Jay would never respond back to L.
Speaker 3:That would be a bad look for Jay back then because Jay wasn't. Jay then, but L's been L for over a decade when that's happened and Jay wasn't there yet.
Speaker 1:That's why Jay waited until the right time to attack Prodigy. He wasn't attacking Prodigy in 97 and 899.
Speaker 3:You know what happened. He attacked Prodigy after HNIC, didn't do Platinum number, that's what I told. Ag Sean been saying that it's the truth, because Murder Music was their first platinum plaque and so what people were expecting, sales-wise, from Prodigy's solo album? Seeing how that's what people were craving, was they figuring, oh this guy's about to do platinum, maybe double. So when he went gold and never even hit platinum and didn't hit the Murder Music level, jay, was like got him.
Speaker 5:And then where Nas was at with Nostradamus, and you know that was the situation. Nostradamus is going platinum.
Speaker 3:But Jay is looking at it like, look at how Jay is looking at it. Even with Nas it's like well, nostradamus is going platinum. The last two joints is going double triple.
Speaker 5:Yeah, and quality-wise he was trending downward. Because, as much as I love IM, illmatic was the pinnacle People in real time were talking about. It was written, was not? It coming off Illmatic, but I still think it was a 5-mic classic, but trending down. Then IM is trending down from. It Was Written and then you got Nostradamus trending down from IM. So, yeah, it's the perfect time for him to attack.
Speaker 1:So here's my problem with I. Am. Jd has my problem in his back pocket Right.
Speaker 3:Here's my problem when people say that they like I Am.
Speaker 1:I don't want to get into that too much though.
Speaker 3:Okay, Like when people say I love I Am. It's like how can you call Illmatic and it was written a classic and understand that's the album that came after those albums, Right?
Speaker 5:I love, I am, I am has big moments, and there's a whole story for another day. If it was released how I was supposed to, it would be the greatest double album of all time, but the retail version that we do have. I love that album Now. Granted, it might not be in his top 10 albums, it might be just outside at 11 or 12, but I still love that album.
Speaker 3:Listen to the words coming out of your mouth. I love this album, but it might not even be a top 10 album from him.
Speaker 5:That's why he's the GOAT. Who can say they got an album the level of I Am as their 11th best album? Who can say that?
Speaker 3:I think Nas is like Mike, nas is like in favor of a couple of those records on there might make it a top 10 Nas album because it's hard to that's a top 10 Nas song easy, yes, and they shit it on it in real time and undying love like I can't.
Speaker 5:That's just cinema, man.
Speaker 3:Like I love that song, that record it's his most underrated story, but I don't love the fact about him committing suicide at the end.
Speaker 5:I don't love that. I mean I ain't taking points off for that. I mean some movies got wild endings, so it's like you know what I mean. I mean.
Speaker 3:Biggie did the same thing as Suicidal Thoughts. I don't love Suicidal Thoughts either.
Speaker 5:No, I don't really go back to that record, but Undyne Love is like, just visually you can see everything. It's a straight up movie. Man I Am is a masterpiece. New York State of Mind too I ain't gonna say it's a masterpiece, but it's a great, phenomenal album. Masterful, yeah, masterful album. Nas is like Hate Me Now with your boy. That's a great, one of his biggest records to this day. Small World, Favor for a Favor, Ghetto Prisoners. It got joints, man.
Speaker 1:You Won't See Me. Tonight was my class. You Won't See Me.
Speaker 5:Tonight was my class. You Won't See Me. Tonight was fire.
Speaker 1:That was my theme. That song sucks. That song sucks.
Speaker 5:Money Is my B is fire Another personification joint yo Coopie Wildin. Bro, I am inspired, bro, I'm objective.
Speaker 3:Ghetto Prisoners is not good.
Speaker 5:Let me ask you a question. It's not good. This is for Coop. What are you taking? I'm going to set you up with Kendrick. What are you taking? I Am or Damn Damn.
Speaker 3:You said that pretty quick, because it's easy One guy's third best album versus a guy's ninth or tenth best album. I'm crazy, I'm not stupid. There's a difference. I got mental health issues. I'm not in a psych ward, though I love them, but I don't know if.
Speaker 2:I'm taking it over. I love them, but I don't know if I'm taking it over.
Speaker 5:I am bro.
Speaker 3:I don't know, damn is better than I am. I'm sorry.
Speaker 5:What Damn is better?
Speaker 1:than.
Speaker 3:I am.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry what you got. Sean I'm taking I am.
Speaker 5:It's not by much, but I'm taking. I am.
Speaker 3:Queens get the money, ass. Nigga Didn't. Nobody ask him, I just did. I literally just did. You should have not asked him how you going to ask a nigga from Queens to pick a guy from Compton over a guy from Queens.
Speaker 4:What type of question is that to ask a guy from?
Speaker 3:Queens.
Speaker 5:What type of question is that to?
Speaker 3:ask a guy from Queens Damn is better than I am and I'm ready to go.
Speaker 5:I'm ready to go. I did set you up Coop because I got you to say something nice about Kendrick, so it all worked out in the end.
Speaker 1:You did.
Speaker 5:You did that's not hard.
Speaker 3:IM's not like that.
Speaker 1:It's not that hard that I'd like to thank the Trackmasters.
Speaker 3:Beats are terrible on that album.
Speaker 1:Yo Coop was on one tonight.
Speaker 3:Beats are terrible on IM.
Speaker 1:Thank you all for putting up tonight. What's up Jar Five good beats on there.
Speaker 3:I got this hat from Killer Five, sixteen records. There's five good beats. Come on, coop.
Speaker 1:Yo Red Steam. Peace to Bill Cox. We lost a cinema legend. He was a guy that yesterday played in our New Jack City. He was the one that killed Nino Brown. I was mad at him for a little while after killing Nino Brown man. When he pulled the blinky out I was like yo.
Speaker 5:That was one of for all the hood classics. That was one of the most shocking scenes like ever.
Speaker 3:You know what? It's one of those scenes. You remember the first time you seen it and it stayed with you. The first time you seen New Jack and that happened, you were like oh that's how it ended.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this is from the Dipset Couture joint. Got it from Killer. Are you done with your promo ad, sean? Are you done with the promo ad? One more time, one more time. Shout out to Blue Horse. Not Pink Horse, but Blue Horse.
Speaker 3:Blue Horse. That sounds like a sexual enhancement product. What the fuck is going on?
Speaker 1:It's twice the potency. It's twice the potency of Pink Horse. What the fuck is going on? It's twice the potency. It's twice the potency of Pimple Twice.
Speaker 3:the potency, what?
Speaker 1:the fuck are you taking? Hey, if you're a virgin with blue balls and you tear down walls, dr Ruth?
Speaker 5:Dr Ruth calling Dr Notboot. Pimp down hats, rock, fashionable suits.
Speaker 2:Class for the youth.
Speaker 3:The beat is terrible. The beat is terrible on Dr Notboot. It's time to go.
Speaker 5:Love that song. That song was the manual.
Speaker 3:I don't love that song. That song's not that good. The song was the manual Coop. I didn't need a handbook by then.
Speaker 1:I didn't need a handbook. Great interview tonight Coop. Great interview tonight with Haas G Phantom of the Beats.
Speaker 3:Yeah, shout out to Haas, that was one of those. Shout out to you niggas for shouting out Dr Knockboot.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, absolutely terrible. Run the numbers up on Dr Knockboot.
Speaker 5:Yo rapping lyrics to Dr Knockboot with Blue Horsepower.
Speaker 3:product placement is nasty work for real Just like the hip-hop podcast for middle-aged men where we're talking about fucking Dr Knockboot and fucking Blue Magic pills, whatever the fuck it ever.
Speaker 1:Is you need these things? No, we need like wait. I'm telling y'all, man AG can share some stuff to help you out AG don't share, Don't share, Please don't share.
Speaker 3:Please don't share AG.
Speaker 1:What you and your wife do don't share.
Speaker 2:Please don't share AG. What you and your wife do what you and your wife do. When are we going off air?
Speaker 1:man.
Speaker 3:Right now.
Speaker 1:Right now the real talk. Thank you all for showing up tonight. Thank you all for rocking with us.
Speaker 3:Click like and subscribe and try not to see any of these sexual enhancement products that we've been purveying on Hip Hop Talks. In no way does this affect the sentiments expressed by Coop, any of Coop's associates or just, I know people who needed the pink.
Speaker 1:Let me tell you, I knew guys who were like yo I'm good man, I'm good.
Speaker 3:Let me tell you what I've been doing. I've been not eating fried foods, I've not been drinking any carbonation, no sodas, and I've been eating clean. And that is how you enhance yourself at our stage without having to pop a fucking pill. Quite frankly, Absolutely.
Speaker 1:You should actually take care of yourself.
Speaker 3:We're on a nice little, quite frankly, absolutely, we're on a nice little three-mile run. We're on a nice little three-mile run.
Speaker 5:In the show Everybody have a good night, yo, that's like. Thor when he said the ether's not a stone.
Speaker 3:Somebody has to amend that If you leave the fried food, we won't need blue magic, blue horse, blue unicorn, whatever the fuck it is. Why don't you try taking care of yourself, nigga?
Speaker 1:Oh, my God yo they take it a heart-shaped herb man like Black Panther man, yo yo we out.