Hear Him Heal
The Insidious Nature of Contention
Understanding Contention: Gain insights into what makes contention so damaging to both personal growth and community harmony.
Guidance from President Nelson: Reflect on sound clips from President Russell M. Nelson that highlight the spiritual and emotional repercussions of contention.
Experiences and Perspectives Our hosts share their experiences and strategies for recognising and resolving contentious situations.
Strategies to Over come Contention:Learn practical and spiritual approaches to navigate away from contention towards a more peaceful existence.
"Contention divides us and saps the strength of our community." - Kerrie Mills Oneal
"We can choose to step away from contention and towards understanding." - David Oneal
Tune into this essential conversation on the nature of contention and how to transcend it. Subscribe to our podcast on your favourite platform to never miss an episode. Join us on the journey to understanding and overcoming contention.
Vist us for more at www.HearHimHeal.com
Understanding Contention: Gain insights into what makes contention so damaging to both personal growth and community harmony.
Guidance from President Nelson: Reflect on sound clips from President Russell M. Nelson that highlight the spiritual and emotional repercussions of contention.
Experiences and Perspectives Our hosts share their experiences and strategies for recognising and resolving contentious situations.
Strategies to Over come Contention:Learn practical and spiritual approaches to navigate away from contention towards a more peaceful existence.
"Contention divides us and saps the strength of our community." - Kerrie Mills Oneal
"We can choose to step away from contention and towards understanding." - David Oneal
Tune into this essential conversation on the nature of contention and how to transcend it. Subscribe to our podcast on your favourite platform to never miss an episode. Join us on the journey to understanding and overcoming contention.
Vist us for more at www.HearHimHeal.com
It is the first commandment, the foundation of faith. As we develop love of God and Christ, love of family and neighbor will naturally follow. Then will we eagerly emulate.
Speaker 2:Jesus, it's hard to throw a stone when you're washing people's feet. Contention is a choice. This guy yesterday said that the dust and everything obeys the Lord and that we're the only creature that doesn't obey the Lord. Last time on Hear Him, heal.
Speaker 4:A temple is a house of prayer.
Speaker 1:A house of fasting, a house of faith, a house of learning, a house of glory, a house of order, a house of God.
Speaker 4:He then goes on to say that this list of attributes is much more than a description of a temple. It's a promise about what will happen to those who serve and worship in the house of the Lord.
Speaker 5:Welcome to Hear Him Heal with Carrie and David Mills O'Neill. Welcome to Hear Him Heal with Kerry and David.
Speaker 4:Mills-O'Neill. Welcome to Hear Him Heal where today we're going to talk about contention.
Speaker 2:Hear that half the spirit of contention is not of me but is of the devil.
Speaker 4:Right, are you going to do all of this in a British accent? No, all of this in a British accent no. Plus, david will discuss his latest experience in what God Taught Me this Week.
Speaker 2:And Carrie, who's been telling me all about this the whole time before we started recording. She's so excited. I think she's been on social media kind of teasing it. People have been getting excited about it. Some people are trying to bet on what it could be, but it's going to be. Probably, compared to like the last three episodes, this is the best one I've ever heard. It's Carrie Marie Mills O'Neal's, otherwise known as Carrie M O'Neal. Practice of the Week Of the Week Of the Week Of the Week.
Speaker 4:Now, if you're ready, it's time to Hear Him Heal.
Speaker 3:Hear Him, heal, feel the light With Carrie and David guiding through the night. Stories of faith, whispers of grace in his words find your place boom.
Speaker 4:So we're talking about contention. So what is contention?
Speaker 1:Many seem eager to damage another's reputation with pathetic and pithy barbs.
Speaker 4:So it's good to have conflict, because we're all individuals.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 4:Right, and we all have differences of opinion due to our perspectives and our experiences in life and we are going to come with different things, kind of bring different things to the table.
Speaker 1:As disciples of Jesus Christ, we are to be examples of how to interact with others, especially when we have differences of opinion.
Speaker 4:Do you remember early on in our relationship where we started to have a little bit of conflict from differences of opinions and you didn't like it. You didn't like the fact that we were kind of like thinking differently or you thought there might be an argument from that. And then I said to you this is healthy. We're we're going to be able to bring our opinions to the table. It's healthy to talk about that's healthy to have different things. And you were worried that we're going to get into arguments all the time and you try to avoid it.
Speaker 1:Yes, but conflict is healthy one of the easiest ways to identify a true follower of jesus christ is how compassionately that person treats other people like.
Speaker 4:Debate is healthy. You get to know somebody's real thoughts and feelings by undergoing some conflict with people. But contention is where the emotions get involved in it and there's often some bad feeling and you just want to hurt people. So in the april conference of last year so 2023 our beloved prophet, president nelson um, he gave us a talk about being peacekeepers the savior made this clear in his sermon to followers in both hemispheres.
Speaker 1:Blessed are the peacemakers. He said. Whosoever shall smite thee on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.
Speaker 4:And he shared an experience from his journey as a heart surgeon when he was quite young and the surgeon that he was supervising, that he was watching, he got angry and he threw a scalpel and it hit him in the arm, didn't it?
Speaker 1:During my surgical internship many years ago, I assisted a surgeon who was amputating a leg filled with highly infectious gangrene. The operation was difficult. Then, to add to the tension, one of the team performed a task poorly and the surgeon erupted in anger. In the middle of his tantrum, he threw his scalpel loaded with germs. It landed in my forearm.
Speaker 4:Everyone in the operating room, except the out-of-control surgeon, was horr, horrified and he vowed from that moment to never let his emotions get the better of him, and also to never throw anything sharp in that very hour, I promised myself that whatever happened in my operating room, I would never lose control of my emotions.
Speaker 1:Or I also vowed that day never to throw anything in anger.
Speaker 4:He says in his talk that anger never persuades, hostility builds no one. Contention never leads to inspired solutions, um, but we see it in our lives every day. Where have you seen contention recently?
Speaker 2:We were learning this week about how the Lamanites felt about the Nephites, how they thought well, nephi, he had the tablet, he had the plates. We didn't. He got to be the king, we didn't. And the Nephites are bad, so we need to kill them. And you know, the other way around, that would be like the Nephites thinking well, those are the Lamanites, those guys are our enemies, we need to kill them. So sometimes, like we learned on that other podcast, that we like it's a generational thing. I can see that. You know, even when I lived in England for a while, like they would, because I was American, they would automatically think something about me, even though maybe they've never been to American. But they had like some kind of idea about what I should be or shouldn't be or what I am, based on something they read or saw or think, and then they would have a contention with me because of that. It's almost like a prejudice kind of thing.
Speaker 2:I think, prejudice is a lot of contention. It's usually when people don't understand something. It's generally like when if you get to know someone or talk to them or see that they're a human, you kind of that contention goes away.
Speaker 1:We hear of youth and children who bully, and of employees who defame their colleagues. My dear brothers and sisters, this should not be as disciples of Jesus Christ. We are to be examples of how to interact with others, especially when we have differences of opinion do you know?
Speaker 4:there's a, there was a study done on on young kids about prejudice, and they kind of like showed, um, some images of some other kids and they asked some kids some questions about them, um, and so they would say you know what, what differences do you see between yourself and these other children?
Speaker 4:And so they were to obviously have different races of children, different hair colors, different eye colors, um, and the children wouldn't pick up on any of that. They would pick up on, oh, they're wearing a red top and I'm wearing a green one, or oh, they're wearing like a bow in the hair and I'm not wearing one. They wouldn't notice the color of their skin, they wouldn't be prejudiced against anyone different from them in that aspect. And that kind of that study kind of proved that we're not born with prejudice. It's something that we've learned and, like the Lamanites, it's generational, like you were saying, and prejudice and racism and all sorts of isms come from our experiences and often our ancestors. So what was the result of Laban and the Lamanites? What kind of result did his hate towards Nephi cause later on down the line?
Speaker 2:I mean, it caused lots of wars. It caused, you know, a lot of bloodshed, a lot of dead Nephites, eventually, like all the Nephites being pretty much dead, and Moroni being the last one of them.
Speaker 1:Before his death, the Savior commanded his 12 apostles to love one another as he had loved them. And then he added by this shall all men know that ye are my disciples if ye have love.
Speaker 4:In the scriptures it says we've learned from our fathers that we don't like these people. We've learned that they're not our friends. We've learned that they've taken things from us, that they've got the plates, that they had the scriptures, that we were harmed and wronged by them. So that generational trauma has caused lots of bloodshed, lots of death. So that generational trauma has caused lots of bloodshed, lots of death, lots of wars, lots of contentions and lots of pain Unnecessary, isn't it? But those generations might have actually really liked each other, but because of what their fathers said and because their fathers before them had fought, they fought.
Speaker 1:No man can serve two masters. We cannot support Satan with our verbal assaults and then think that we can still serve God.
Speaker 4:There was this granddaughter and she was cooking a ham for her husband. And have I said this before?
Speaker 2:Not on this show.
Speaker 4:No. And so, um, her husband one day asked her why do you cut the ends of the ham? And the girl thought about it. She's like I don't know, but my mom did it. So I'm just gonna, I'm gonna go and ask my mom, Um, and then she asked her mom and her mom said do you know what? I don't know, but I've always done it, but I do it because my mum did it. So why don't you go and ask your nan? So the girl calls her nan up and she says to her nan nan, why do you cut the ends of the ham? And her nan says because it didn't fit in the oven.
Speaker 4:And so, like there's two generations there that have followed a single practice for a reason that they didn't need to continue it for and I know it's only a stupid example but say, if your granddad is saying, um, you know, like, be racist, like don't, don't talk to people of that particular color, and your dad did that, became racist and then you became racist because they were racist.
Speaker 4:Like that kind of generational trauma is really damaging. I mean, cutting the ends of a ham is not really good to do anyone any harm apart from you're wasting good mood. But whatever we are learning from our ancestors and from our generations, we really need to think about what we are doing with that, because we all have the power to stop behaviour from continuing to our children and stopping that trauma continuing. I know we've all got things in our families and our past that we'd rather not take on to the next generation, but it's always proven in science that our children will outdo us. They will succeed us, and whether that is in a good way or a negative way. So the more good we teach them, the more good they will. They will succeed us with contention drives away the spirit.
Speaker 1:Every time, contention reinforces the false notion that confrontation is the way to resolve differences. But it never is.
Speaker 4:Contention is a choice I caused contention once in my surgery and wasn't very like I'm not very happy about this, but I've done some reflection. Um, so basically the situation was there was a little girl was probably about, probably about eight came in with her mum and this poor little girl had holes in all of her teeth, so cavities everywhere. And I was saying to their mum you know, like she's got holes in her teeth, a lot of them will have to come out. She'll have to go into the hospital, have a general anaesthetic and remove most of her baby teeth and even some of her adult teeth are already there and and too far gone to save. And the mum was just like she wasn't really interested. Um, and I was, I got annoyed.
Speaker 4:Basically I saw this child in pain, she had an abscess and I was really upset, um, and so I said to the mom look, this is really important, we need to get her in as soon as possible. Um, and the mom was just like, well, I'm going on holiday next week because there's a, a wedding that I'm going to, and I just I didn't understand, I didn't listen to understand, I was judgmental and I was worried about the girl. So I was just like don't you think that your daughter's health is more important than a holiday? Um, and that was a quick reaction. I didn't think about what I was saying, and the mother was very upset. She was very, uh, confrontational to me at that point. And at that point I realized what I said. I realized the position that I was in and kind of took a step backwards and kind of said look, um, I'm sorry for what I just said, let's now focus on the child's best interest. Um, and the mother calmed down and we managed to sort it out.
Speaker 4:Later she put a complaint in about me, um, and so I had to go through that experience. Um, and you know it was my fault because I let my emotions get the better of me. Yeah, that child was in an awful position. Yeah, it shouldn't have happened. But as the dentist in that position, I could have tried to motivate the mum and and educate the mum in a proper way to understand why this has happened, rather than kind of just putting blame on and to which case she kind of backed off, and then we weren't working together and we weren't a team and I wasn't able to affect her in a positive way or teach her at all, and I had to go through the stress of having a complaint against me, so that wasn't a very nice experience, but it was one that definitely taught me to not react on emotion, especially when children are involved, and that was pretty tough, to be fair, but it's definitely one that taught me.
Speaker 1:Differences of opinion are part of life. I work every day with dedicated servants of the Lord who do not always see an issue the same way they know. I want to hear their ideas and honest feelings about everything we discuss, especially sensitive issues.
Speaker 2:So there was a talk when you were four in 1989, that was four years after the Care Bears movie came out that called the Canker of Contention by Russell M Nelson.
Speaker 1:Peace I leave with you my peace.
Speaker 2:I give unto you, not as the world giveth, give I unto you See, it delves into the destructive nature of contention and its opposition in its teachings of Christ. How?
Speaker 1:easy it is. Yet how wrong it is to allow habits of contention to pervade matters of spiritual significance, because contention is forbidden by divine decree.
Speaker 2:He also talked about the origins of contention, tracing it back to the premortal existence, where the adversary sought to alter the plan of God, leading to a war of ideas in heaven. And this same spirit of contention, he argued, continued to afflict humanity today, manifesting in personal, social and even international disputes.
Speaker 1:Contention existed before the earth was formed. When God's plan for creation and mortal life on the earth was first announced, sons and daughters of God shouted for joy. The plan was dependent on man's agency, his subsequent fall from the presence of God and merciful provision of a Savior to redeem mankind. Scriptures reveal that Lucifer sought vigorously to amend the plan by destroying the agency of man. Satan's cunning motive was unmasked in his statement Behold, here am I Send me. I will be thy son and I will redeem all mankind. That one soul shall not be lost. Surely I will do it. Wherefore, give me thine honor.
Speaker 1:Satan's selfish efforts to alter the plan of God resulted in great contention in heaven. The prophet Joseph Smith explained. Jesus said there would be certain souls that would not be saved, and the devil said he could save them all and laid his plans before the grand council, who gave their vote in favor of Jesus Christ. So the devil rose up in rebellion against God and was cast down. This war in heaven was not a war of bloodshed. It was a war of conflicting ideas, the beginning of contention.
Speaker 2:And he warned that there are subtle ways that contention can infiltrate our lives and relationships, particularly when the family and the church. He stressed the importance of avoiding contention and discussing doctrine and interactions with church leaders. And discussing doctrine and interactions with church leaders. In Matthew 18, 15 through 17,. Jesus outlined a structure of approaching, a way to resolve disputes. He taught If he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. And if he neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church. But if he neglect to hear it unto the church, let him be unto thee as a heathen man and a publican. So this scripture not only emphasized the importance of direct communication but also the need for witnesses to an unresolved disputes, highlighting the community's role in conflict resolution. So it's a big deal to have contention because it creates a lot of unrest.
Speaker 1:The family has been under attack since Satan first taunted Adam and Eve.
Speaker 4:A professor wanted to teach his students something. So when they just returned after their spring break, they kind of got into their classroom and realized that there was a paper on their table which looked like a test, like an exam, and so they were all just like a bit gutted. They went to their seats and the professor said I want everybody, in silence, in exam conditions, go to your seats and sit down and I will instruct you what to do. So the students were just like, oh man, I've just come back from this break and I've got this to deal with. This is not fair. They were murmuring and stuff. So they sat down and the professor said what I want you to do is write an essay, and what I want you to write is everything that you see on this piece of paper when you turn it over. That's all I want you to do, just write down everything that you see on this piece of paper. And so the students were a bit bewildered and so they started to turn over the paper. When they turned it over, they kind of looked around at each other because what was on the paper was a little black dot right in the center of the paper, and they were looking a bit confused. So the professor just said again just write down what you see. So the students started writing down what they see. They write down what color the dot was. They wrote down the size of the dot where it was in the paper. You know, some got even creative and started seeing like little splurges where the dot wasn't perfectly spherical, and imagining all sorts of things.
Speaker 4:So at the end of the um, the test, the professor gathered them all in. He looked through them all quickly, um, and said to the students you've all failed. And they they were just like what's going on, like we don't understand. And the professor said you've all written about the black dot, but none of you have written about the white paper. The black dot in comparison to the white paper is tiny, but you've all focused on that. And he likened it to um.
Speaker 4:Like our lives, like when something bad is going on, you focus on that bad thing. That dot is the bad thing, but it's so small compared to all the good things around you, all of the light that shines, all of the happiness, the joy, the fun, the music, the laughter, all the good things. That's the white stuff. We don't often see that when we're so zoned in and focused on that small like black thing, that dark thing that's happening and that's like contention. It can really eat away at you and if you focus on those negatives then you do miss so much good. But you're also just in one perspective.
Speaker 1:Thomas B Marsh. Once one of the Twelve left the church, his spiritual slide to apostasy started because his wife and another woman had quarreled over a little cream. After an absence from the Church of nearly nineteen years, he came back To a congregation of Saints. He then said If there are any among this people who should ever apostatize and do as I have done, because a lot of times people don't want to be wrong- I mean most of people.
Speaker 2:The main thing that happens when you talk to somebody is you can't ever make them wrong. You can agree with them to a point to get them to see maybe a different point, but when someone's upset with you, you can never tell them that they're not right, because then that will just breed even more contention and more hatred. But you can have compassion. Like you said last week in your amazing um practice of the week, which I know that you've been practicing and this week is going to be even better um. You can have compassion, which means to suffer with. But you can never say to someone like you're wrong.
Speaker 2:But when you can admit that you're wrong, that's when people open up to you, because then they know secretly that they can't tell you you're wrong. So when you admit that you're wrong, it's like a breath of fresh air to them, because they wanted to tell you that how wrong you are. But they can't, because humans can't do that without facing a lot of contention. Like you can tell someone that, but you know it's going to be a big fight and so that's really difficult. But if the other side does say that they're wrong, then you're like oh, he finally gets it like it's okay, now I can talk to him. But it's such, a, such a big thing when someone realizes that, because you already know they're wrong but you can't tell them because otherwise it's going to be a fight, and so you have to tell them. You have to. It's better if someone discovers something for themselves than it is for that you to tell them imagine the number six is drawn on the floor right.
Speaker 4:You're stood looking at the number from the bottom, so the round bit and you're looking at the number, so you see the six. I'm at the other end of the six at the top and I'm looking at it. What number am I going to see?
Speaker 2:Nine.
Speaker 4:Yeah, but we're both right. I'm going to say to you that's nine. You're going to say to me no, it's six, but we're both right. But we're looking at it from different perspectives. Do you know those pictures as well? Um, there's like a, an old, witchy face, and there's also like a young woman with a hat on in that same picture. Now, some people will see one thing, other people will see a different thing. They're both looking at the same picture, they're both right, but they've got different answers.
Speaker 4:So often conflict, um, is about perspective and it is about different views. And both, like you and I, if we were looking at the sticks, we would both argue and bet our lives on the fact that we were right there and you're wrong, because you're not looking at what I'm looking at. Now that that can cause contention if we decide to let it. But if I say to you okay, I'm going to come around to your side and I'm going to look at it from your side, and then I'm going to see a six and you're going to say to me okay, let me come around to your side and you're going to see a nine, and then we're both going to say, yeah, you're right, we both see this, and that's how conflict can be solved and that's how it avoids contention is by understanding that somebody else has a different perspective and listening to understand that you can see it from their perspective. Listening to understand is massive with us, isn't it?
Speaker 2:Yes, listening to understand, because oftentimes you'll come and tell me stuff and then I'll start trying to fix it and you're like no, I just want you to understand first, because I can't really fix it until I understand, and sometimes there's no point of me fixing it, it's just, basically, it's something that might not be able to be, you know, mended at the moment. It's just, it's just nicer to have somebody understand, and that's even more important than ever fixing it, because maybe it's not broken, maybe it's just. The situation is the situation and I just want, or you just want, me to understand it for you from your perspective. You want me to see your six exactly, exactly, without turning around.
Speaker 4:I just want you to see, I just want to feel heard a lot of the time, and when we were studying, when I was doing dentistry and studying, we did this massive section on communication every year with our patients and I learned that, you know, over 65 to 70% is actually listening, it's not talking, and you can gain a lot from just listening. So when my children fight, when they have conflict, a lot of the time they'll both come to me and they'll go meh, meh, meh, meh, meh, meh, meh. She's doing this, he's doing that, meh, meh, meh. And so I'll just often sit there and not say anything and they'll they'll squabble, they'll tell me everything that the other person's doing, and they'll go on and on, and on, and on for ages and I'll still be sat there not trying to fix anything, just listening, and then they'll start to calm down a little bit. They'll look at me as if they want me to solve the situation and then, um, at that point is when you know when they've stopped talking, then then I'll say why, what I think. But, um, they kind of look to me because they're they're trying to solve it and they're trying to just get out, but they're not actually listening to each other. And then sometimes I'll give them like a stick or something to hold and then they'll have individual turns.
Speaker 4:But often, a lot of the time, we just speak or listen to respond. Listen when you're not actually listening, but while that person's talking you're already thinking of what to say and you've got it there, lined and ready to just fire at them whenever they've stopped talking. And that's not listening to understand, that's listening to respond, and that's a massive difference, especially in a marriage where there's going to be conflict all the time because you're two different people coming together and trying to amalgamate into this unit of unity and oneness. That is really, really hard to do, and so if you can learn that skill to listen, to understand and instead of listening to respond, you've got a much better chance of avoiding contention.
Speaker 1:Bring to light the true points of my doctrine, yea, and the only doctrine which is in me, and this I do, that I may establish my gospel that there may not be so much contention. Yea, satan doth stir up the hearts of the people to contention concerning the points of my doctrine. And in these things they do err, for they do rest the scriptures and do not understand them.
Speaker 4:What do you think the world would be like if there were only people in it that thought exactly the same way as you did?
Speaker 2:it would be pretty boring. I think it wouldn't be very. You know, there wouldn't be a lot to learn. Like nephi says, there's opposition in all things, so like the world has to be like that, in order for us to progress, there has to be opposite ideas, because there's you build that way. There's a different way to to make things. Like I might have an idea to to make the podcast, and you come along and like, well, what if we do that? And like I didn't think of that and it's much better because of you. You know, every time I do the show I think, oh, I don't know if this one's that great. And then you start talking and I'm like, oh, actually it is really good because you added all these wonderful things to it and you added your spirit and your personality to it, which I wouldn't have if I, if you, were the same as me. I don't have that sparkling, you know, bright, shiny personality that you have.
Speaker 4:You do, baby, just in a in a different way. You've got such a bright light spirit, um. So if we were all the same, you've got such a bright light spirit. Um, so if we were all the same, nothing would grow, it wouldn't develop and we'd still find things to contend about. Okay, so, heavenly father's, given us many different talents, different gifts, different strengths and weaknesses weaknesses to become strengths later on. Right, because if we didn't have weaknesses, what's the point of us being here and learning and growing? So we've got all of these things.
Speaker 4:Now, um, we need to use all of these people with different ideas. So to get the best out of any kind of situation, you need lots of different dynamics to make that happen. You don't want the same things. Um, my boss, um christian, he did like this personality test with us all at work a little while ago, um, because he wanted to know where best to place people in the practice to make it more of a strength. And so we did all these um personality tests and, um, we were all very different. There were some that were specifically very strongly one type of person, um, and like whether that was compassionate or, you know, loving or managerial, um leadership kind of thing, and there were some that had, like, some that were strong and a mixture of others, and some that were just a complete mixture all together. Now, every single team needs lots of team players that bring different qualities to it. Um, I think in the the follow him podcast they likened it to um like a keyboard, didn't they? Um? And if you're making beautiful music and hymns and songs and things that really bring the spirit around, you can't just play one key, one note. You need a plethora of all of the different keys to be able to make that beautiful tune. And that is like anything in life. And so these differences, although make us individual and make us unique, they also can make us united by working together for a same cause.
Speaker 4:And although we may have different ideas to people, if we are prideful and don't listen to anyone else's ideas and that's when contention can creep in but if we think, okay, we've got some great ideas, but so have they, how can we compromise here? How can we amalgamate those to create something even bigger and even brighter, when we kind of shut down other people or are too worried about what people think about ours to even raise ours, too worried about what people think about ours, to even raise ours, then that's when the contention can creep in and satan will have a field day with that kind of thing, won't he? He's like you're different here, your weaknesses is there, like we don't want you, you've got weaknesses over there, instead of being like okay, these are your weaknesses, this person has the strength in that boom. Put you together will increase both your weaknesses and you're using your strengths for good, like that's what heavenly father tries to do with us.
Speaker 4:He brought us two together because you are great with creativity and and stuff and like money and finances and stuff like that, whereas I'm terrible at finances.
Speaker 4:I'm not very creative, but you have given me, um, you've inspired me to be more creative and to be more careful with my finances, so I'm learning from you, um, and like similarly, I have strengths that I've brought to this as well and you're learning from those. So we are kind of getting the best out of the both worlds, whereas if we were both prideful and weren't humble about those things, I could be like oh, he thinks he knows better about finances. He's like like taking over or he's like trying to tell me what to do or whatever, and I could just really make that an issue, um, but and I do sometimes, don't I? Because I'm like, well, I'm independent, I can do all this by myself, and I actually can't, like we need each other, um, and we complement each other, and that's why heavenly father has brought us here to be able to do that and to complement each other and to use our strengths for good, to help others.
Speaker 1:Whenever tempted to dispute, remember this proverb he that is void of wisdom despiseth his neighbor, but a man of understanding holdeth his peace.
Speaker 4:Do you want to hear seven tips to manage conflict successfully?
Speaker 4:Yes, I would like to hear that sweetheart so, number one do not avoid conflict, but do avoid contention. Conflict is good. Look at it as it's good. Number two remember that there are two sides to every conflict. So we're talking about differences of opinion and perspective. The number six try and walk around to their side. Explain your thoughts and feelings kindly. A lot of the time we tend to generalize you never do this, you never hear me, and that instantly shuts someone down. I think it's important to kind of say sentences like I feel like this take on those emotions as in they're yours and not somebody else has done them to you now, the absolute thinking is always because, even if the person was kind of that way, they probably sometimes do it, they almost.
Speaker 2:You never do this, you always do that, like that's most people are not consistent, so they might seem like they are, but I could say, like it occurs to me, that this happens quite a bit. Yeah, versus, because anytime you say the word you in an argument, it's's gonna be bad for you yeah, you instantly get like what have I done?
Speaker 4:like what are you saying?
Speaker 2:yeah, I remember one time in marriage counseling. They're like david, you're not allowed to say the word you anymore. I was like what? They're like? Nope, you have to pay five dollars every time you say you. I didn't have any money left, uh number four.
Speaker 4:Consider your end goal. What are you actually arguing about? Like I, um, I watched a TED talk once and it was talking about is it going to matter in a thousand years? It really kind of like opened my eyes. Um, cause I was getting really frustrated with the children at the time, like they were just messy and arguing and I was at that moment I was quite stressed with work and being a single mom that I just kind of tend to. I started to focus in on everything they were doing wrong, so I was on them for every single thing. And then I listened to this TED Talk and it said is it going to matter in 1,000 years? And then I started thinking about what they were doing.
Speaker 4:So is the fact that their room is messy going to matter in 1,000 years? No, it's not. Really, is it? Is the fact that they've left their bowls out and they haven't put them in the dishwasher or haven't washed them up? Is it going to matter? No, it's not. Um, if they're not going to want to attend their church lessons, if they're, they're arguing and fighting about going to church, is that going to matter in a thousand years? Well, we know from generational trauma with the lamanites that, yeah, it will matter. It will matter if they don't go to church and start, you know, skipping things. It will matter in a thousand years. So I'm going to put my focus into that rather than these things that don't matter. So keeping your end goal in sight, especially in conflict Conflict, is really important.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I read some book. It was like everything was like the next five minutes, or the next five months or the next five years, and it was like, if you get a flat tire, does it matter the next five minutes? Like, yes, does it matter in five months? Probably not. Does it matter in five years? No. Like it was just like do everything in fives. And like you know this person, does it matter in the next five minutes that you have to have this done? No, in the next five months, yeah, maybe you need to have it done, but it was kind of like that and so it was a good way to organize what was happening during the week. Yeah, during your day, like the next, her whole thing was the next five that's cool.
Speaker 4:I want to listen to that yeah, it was a good book.
Speaker 2:It was a while ago, like maybe 10 years ago, but it was a good book. You have to show to that. Yeah, it was a good book. That was a while ago, like maybe 10 years ago, but it was a good book. Do you have to show?
Speaker 4:me that one.
Speaker 2:But it doesn't matter if I don't show it to you in the next five minutes. Wow, in the next five months probably. Yeah, it's a really good thing.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's good, I like that, it's just giving you a good perspective.
Speaker 4:Yeah, you a good perspective. Yeah, it's not like the eternal perspective, like a thousand years, but it is like what's important for now, you know, what's immediate, what's important for later. Yeah, it's good, I like that number five. Then consider using humor. Now, this is spelt wrong. We put a u in it, humor, humor. So you are very good at this. When I'm sometimes down and or I'm a little bit annoyed, you, you won't leave me to sulk, because I've told you that when I have silence I'm going to go away. That's dangerous, right? So you don't let me do that anymore. So you will humor me, you'll make me laugh, you'll even make me sing a hymn until that contention goes, or you'll put on some sort of music, or you'll do your British accent or something. You use humour quite a lot to to deflect the tension away from the situation, not to disregard it or not to change it, but just to bring some light in. I really love that. That's a real good strength that you have.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, sometimes people think stuff is so serious and like some things are serious, like if someone's going to die, or like, but a lot of times what we're upset about like you can just be like, okay, that sucks, but we could still laugh anyway, know he's gonna matter in five months.
Speaker 4:There was a study on like laughter where this guy went on a train in london on the on the underground and it's really super busy, um, at rush hour time, yeah, and he just on this massively busy train he just started laughing like real belly laughing, like just complete, like shoulders going, everything was just laughing. Within five minutes like the whole carriage was laughing. Because it's so like catchy, it's so addictive if one person is just around you with that happy spirit, you just can't help but start laughing yourself and it's just wonderful. Has it ever happened like around you where there's a group of you and one person starts laughing and you just always increases and you can't stop?
Speaker 1:the apostle paul thus counseled the philippians let nothing be done through strife or vain glory, but in lowliness of mind, let each esteem other better than themselves. Such high mutual regard would then let us respectfully disagree without being disagreeable. But the ultimate step lies beyond beginning control of expression. Personal peace is reached when one, in humble submissiveness, truly loves God. Heed carefully this scripture. There was no contention in the land because of the love of God which did dwell in the hearts of the people. Thus love of God should be our aim. It is the first commandment, the foundation of faith. As we develop love of God and Christ, love of family and neighbor will naturally follow. Then will we eagerly emulate Jesus.
Speaker 4:There's a scripture with that one Doctrine and Covenants 82.1. And it says verily, verily, I say unto you, my servants, that inasmuch as you have forgiven one another your trespasses, even so I, the Lord, forgive you. And last but not least, number seven this is something that I struggle with when I make a mistake is being kind to yourself. To yourself. So it says learning new skills takes time to be patient with yourself and know that it takes patience to become better at responding to and solving conflict very true.
Speaker 2:How do you forgive yourself?
Speaker 4:um, prayer a lot of the time and just understanding that I'm not perfect. I think part of my character trait is being a bit of a perfectionist and that that is fine in terms of like my job and stuff, because I'm good at it and I do make my work to be quite aesthetically pleasing and obviously good for my patients. But the negatives to that is that I'm highly critical of myself and that can lead to others around me as well. So, um, being kind to myself and forgiving myself is is harder than forgiving others for me, so it's something I need to just constantly work on.
Speaker 1:Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the children of God. Now is the time to stop doing things that make others walk on eggshells for fear of upsetting you. Now is the time to bury your weapons of war. If your verbal arsenal is filled with insults and accusations, now is the time to put them away. You will arise as a spiritually strong man or woman of Christ.
Speaker 4:You've obviously changed in the last year or so, so what do you think has led to that change?
Speaker 2:Well, I think, going to the temple, seeing what the Lord wants me to see, taking the covenants that the Lord has asked me to take, obviously, working with you, reading lots of scripture, and then seeing other people as children of God and seeing other people as they of God, and seeing other people as they're on a path that they're progressing and that even I'm progressing, even you're progressing, and even when we take a lot of steps back sometimes, we're still progressing because we're still learning and knowing that he loves us, that the Lord loves us, and that he wants us to be like him and he wants us to inherit all the things that he has by keeping his covenants.
Speaker 2:That gives me a different path where before I was on a worldly path, like, okay, I need to have a bunch of cars, a bunch of money, a bunch of fancy watches and clothes and be able to go to fancy things and know fancy people and do projects that are worth fancy people's attention so that I could exclude other people. That was my goal before, and now my goal is like well, I want to be with the people that need me and they need my service and I don't need anything because, whatever you know, like even when I was in jail and had the toilet roll and the cornbread in the bin, I still had what I needed. Even though it wasn't maybe what I wanted, I still had what I needed.
Speaker 4:So, like, my idea of what I need is different now, so it sounds to me like two massive changes have happened in your heart. So the first is that you no longer put your worth in money or material possessions. You put your worth in Jesus Christ and you know, now that he died for you, that that testimony is deep in your heart. So then your worth is way more than what you can earn or or have in front of you. It's eternal. That's one big change that I see in you.
Speaker 4:The other change is um, the attribute of jesus christ that we are discussing this week, and that your pride and your like puffed upiness and like. There's so many different ways the scriptures describe pride and it's like stiff-necked or like puffed up um, and you have now become humble and that's the? Um. The attribute of Jesus Christ is humility. Um, he was the epicenter of humility. He. He just absolutely was totally grounded and just loved everybody all of the time. He understood that everything that he did was his father's will, and I think that that's what you're starting to do now, like it's not about what David wants, it's not about what David can show other people that he's got. It's about David doing the Lord's work and his will, and you want to do it because you love him, and that is deep humility and that is so attractive in you yeah, being humble is what's that quote you sent me today?
Speaker 2:It's hard to throw a stone when you're washing people's feet.
Speaker 4:So in John 13, verses 34 to 35, we find a new commandment that reiterates the essence of Christ's teaching. A new commandment I give unto you that ye love one another as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples if ye have love one to another. That was like the song of our week last week, wasn't it? Love one another.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:This directive calls for a deep, abiding love that transcends simple tolerance, reaching into genuine care and concern for each other. Um, now, robert f orton, in the talk, called the first and great commandment. He said brothers and sisters, if we are obedient to the commandment of love, there will be no disputations, contentions nor hatred between nor among us. We will not speak ill of one another, but we will treat each other with kindness and respect, realizing that each of us is a child of god. There will be no nephites, lamanites, nor any other ites among us, and every man, woman and child will deal justly one with another. I like that. There's no ites. We often like put things into categories, don't we?
Speaker 4:yes like, yeah, we just categorize each other and find differences between each other so that we don't have to hang around with that, that person or those people because they're different to us. But let's stop. Let's stop labeling, let's just see each other as what we are. I think that there's a scriptures like it doesn't matter if you're black or white, bond or free, rich or poor, like whatever.
Speaker 2:It doesn't matter, we're all children of God yeah, I think I like that phrase I heard in Mosiah this week I think it was in Mosiah 4 somewhere that said we're all beggars. Right, are we not all beggars? Because that's really what we are right, we're just. God can shut our life off in a second for any reason he wants to, and we're only alive because he's chosen to have us alive. And so we're all really the same, no matter what car or clothes or status or education or anything. We just we're all the same.
Speaker 4:Exactly From dust we came and from dust we will go.
Speaker 2:This guy yesterday said that the dust and everything obeys the lord and that we're the only creature that doesn't obey the lord it is really interesting because he gave us choice and he gave us agency because we're on trial to return back to him.
Speaker 4:We need to learn these things. Do you know? Like um from the podcast? They were talking about um from the follow him podcast. They were talking about us having choices.
Speaker 4:Um, whether we react, because nobody can make us feel anything, I can't make you feel angry. I can't make you feel annoyed. I can't make you feel any kind of contention towards me. Um, you choose it.
Speaker 4:So like we all have synaptic responses in our bodies that work automically, like innately, that we don't have control over. So if we were to try and um like drown in the sea, like we'd have an autonomic response to try and save ourselves. If we try and put our hands on fire, we'd have an autonomic response to move our hands out of the way. Those are reflex actions that we don't have any control over. Just like you know, when you like hit your knee funny and your leg pings up, um, those are all autonomic responses that just happen because the nerve has been triggered or we're protecting ourselves, but where, with God giving us agency, there is a time between the thing that um stimulates us to our reactions and in that time we have the choice to make of how to respond to that.
Speaker 4:So I think it was like there was Thomas S Monson and there was Elder Bednar. Both said that nobody could make us do anything. It's a choice. And so there's a quote from Thomas S Monson here. It says to be angry is to yield to the influence of satan. No one can make us angry is our choice.
Speaker 4:If we desire to have a proper spirit with us at all times, we must choose to refrain from becoming angry. I testify that such is possible and, like the physiology of our bodies in the way that heavenly father has made us, is that we do have a period between stimuli and response, and that's when we need to choose what we need to do. The more we practice that, the more we forgive ourselves when we get it wrong, but the more we focus on trying to improve that, that length of time will increase and we're able to have more control over it. I see so often in the streets like mothers just losing control and shouting at their children or, you know, siblings just being like rah, like he looked at me or whatever. But it's something that we can control and it takes a lot of patience and time and development, but we're here to do that, so we need to learn how to do it.
Speaker 2:Well, I think it's time for what God taught me this week.
Speaker 6:And now, if you are ready, it is time for David Mills O'Neill to reveal what God taught me this week.
Speaker 4:Ooh, I'm excited Now. I don't know what this is going to be, what God taught me.
Speaker 2:this week is that I was having some issues with somebody at the halfway house that was in a position of power, and I was having trouble over the last I don't know four or so, five weeks, maybe almost six weeks. I even had to have a blessing about it because it got pretty bad. The blessing made it better, but then I still had the issue where every time that person was going to be working, I was worried what was going to happen, what was going to be. And so the other day I prayed about it and I was praying like why am I still here? What do I need to do to get out? And the Lord kind of said, like look at the areas that aren't working in my life, like where I'm not, you know, I could be like, well, I'm not smoking, I'm not drinking, I'm being a good fiancé, I'm striving to do well in my school, I'm doing all the things I should do, I'm writing books, I've got a podcast with my love, like I'm doing all these things. But like, what am I not doing? And I'm like, oh yeah, I'm not forgiving this person, these two people, about this harm that I think they've done to me and about this harm that I think they've done to me, and so I thought, you know, I've got to somehow humanize this and somehow just talk to them. So I went to talk to the person yesterday when they didn't want to talk, and I just said, well, I'd like to pray. And they said, well, I don't really want to pray. And so I did it anyway, and that kind of softened them a little bit.
Speaker 2:And then we made a call to the person that was causing me the what I thought was the problem, and I found out that this person had a sick husband and that this person had some things going on in her life that was really hard for her, and so she was kind of lashing out in different ways and I just said you know, well, I'm really sorry about that and I'll put your name on the temple roll and I'll hard for her.
Speaker 2:And so she was kind of lashing out in different ways and I just said you know well, I'm really sorry about that and I'll put your name on the temple roll and I'll I'll be happy to pray with you, and that that really softened them a lot, and so that wasn't what I wanted to do. I wanted to be angry, I wanted to make them a bad person. I wanted to say that something was happening to me when, really, I think the Lord wanted to show me that I could go into a spot where you know it's easy to go to church and to pray with others, or it's easy to pray with people when they ask you to, but sometimes it's harder when the person seems to be overtly hurting you, and then to see them as a child of God and see them that they might be hurting, even though I thought I was hurting by their actions, and to really go over to them and say, well, why don't we just pray and why don't we just talk about it and that?
Speaker 2:that interaction made them talk to me in a way that they were able to humanize me and I was able to see them as a human and not as a problem, and they thanked me and they just, and I said, well, it's gonna be okay and let's, let's just stay positive and let's just keep praying. And it was kind of strange, I know, for them, because that's not the world they live in. They live in the world that's owned and run by the god of this earth, which is the adversary. So they're not used to that and they're probably trying to figure out what I'm trying to do. But I just said, like I'm not trying to do anything. I just want to give you some love and I just want you to know that Heavenly Father loves you and that whatever happens is part of his plan, and that I just felt prompted to tell you that he loves you and that that was a really positive thing.
Speaker 2:So I learned to be able to see something, even though somebody was.
Speaker 2:What I thought was being really hurtful was that they needed love too and that I was one able to like take the candle which was God's light, and like light their candle, which has grown dim, so that they had a bit of light in their life and that probably massively helped them and helped me because now I don't have any contention towards them or before I would sit in my room like, oh well, this person like I know what I'm going to say next time Like I was planning to buy like special glasses, because I have these Ray-Ban glasses that you can record with, but they only have the dark version and you're not allowed to wear those.
Speaker 2:So I was going to get the clear version, buy those just so I could record the contention, to make a point of how wrong they are, and I was willing to spend money and go really far to make them pay for what they were doing to me, versus what the Lord wanted was for me to love them, and that's a totally different place to come from. So that is what God taught me this week.
Speaker 4:That's a massive thing that you did, because I know that those people caused you a lot of pain and a lot of emotional heartache as well and a lot of anxiety. So you being able to see them as children of God through Christ's eyes and face them and tell them that they're loved and tell them that they're loved, that's a massive testimony builder right there. That's a wonderful opportunity of sharing God's love with children that don't know about him. Before I came into the church, I honestly did not believe there were any good people in the world, Because every person that I knew wanted something from me without giving anything. And I know that a lot of other people feel the same way and they don't have that perspective that we have now. And you've just loved them and understood them from where they are and what's going on in their lives.
Speaker 4:There's a there expression that says like hurt people, hurt people Right. Like often people that are mean are the ones that are hurting themselves. You see it in the school playground, where the bully is being bullied at home or having abuse from his parents or siblings or whatever. Like we need to sometimes look into these people that hurt us and try and help them. I think that was so brave and so wonderful of you.
Speaker 2:It was surprising to me because I wouldn't have wanted to do that. But a lot of times when I'm praying I just try to really look and see like, okay, I'm not getting the answer to a prayer that I want, what am I not doing? And sometimes I just have to ask him like, okay, I think I'm not getting the answer to a prayer that I want, what am I not doing? And sometimes I just have to ask him like, okay, I think I'm doing everything, but I don't think you think so. So what do I need to do? Or what work do you have for me here that I've not done? Or what have I not learned? And you know, the answer might not come for a little while, but it does come if I listen to the Spirit, I think.
Speaker 4:So that was really cool. So that was a neat experience. I really enjoy your change of perspective there, because for ages you've been like how many farther? Like, get me out of here. Why are you not getting me out of here? Like, why am I stuck here? Why do I have to endure this? What, what's going on? And now your heart is saying what do I need to learn? Are we ready for my section? Yes, please get ready, get set, because it's time to learn about Kerry Mills O'Neill's practice of the week, practice of an up and down emotional week for me, hasn't it?
Speaker 4:So there's a lot of stuff going on with my ex-husband and my children in court which has brought a lot of stress to me, brought a lot of stress to me, and when I get stressed I tend to sometimes turn to the Lord and have peace and wonderfulness, like that. But sometimes I'm a natural man and I'm like Heavenly Father, why are you doing this? Why do I have to deal with this? Um, what do I do? And I get overwhelmed, frustrated.
Speaker 4:So normally, a way to kind of for me to look back and see the blessings in my life I look back through my journal and I find the ways that the Lord has been in my life through my journal, and so I realised that this week I haven't written in my journal at all, and normally I write in it every single day and there's been so much going on this week and so many, so many stressors, but so many blessings as well, that I haven't recorded and and so I'm not able to like look back and see the Lord's hands in my life this week. But you and I talk about it regularly and we know that the Lord is in our every single day, every single minute of everything. But because I hadn't recorded it, I hadn't been able to have that spiritual uplifting of um and seeing, of seeing those things in my life every day. So I kind of slapped myself on the hand this week and so the week coming I'm going to start writing in my journal again and re-establishing his life, in his work in my life on a daily basis. So that is my practice of the week to write in my journal.
Speaker 4:Kerry Mills O'Neill's practice of the week.
Speaker 2:Amazing. I love it. Well done Well. That wraps up this week's episode of Hear Him Heal. Join us next week. We're going to have a special episode. You requested something.
Speaker 4:I want something happy. Do you know? We've done adversity, we've done contention. I really want something happy. So what are we going to do? Miracles, miracles. We've had so many miracles. We've got some personal stories to tell you about as well.
Speaker 1:so stay tuned next week, see you next week on hear him heal how easy it is, yet how wrong it is to allow habits of contention to pervade matters of spiritual significance, because contention is forbidden by divine decree.
Speaker 5:Thank you for tuning in to Hear Him Heal with David and Carrie Mills O'Neill. We'd love to hear from you. Visit us at hearhimhealcom or drop us an email. Do you have a question? Record it and send it to our special hotline. Please keep your message under two minutes and mention your name so we can acknowledge you on the show. You'll also find plenty of information about our latest books and more from the Hear Him Heal podcast universe. Interested in being a guest or know someone who has a story to share, please reach out through our website, hearhimhealcom. Join us next week for more healing stories inspired by Jesus Christ. Until then, stay blessed In His words, find your place.
Speaker 3:Join us each week, let your heart sail On waves of tales where miracles prevail. Tells where miracles prevail. Jesus' love so deep and real. Come and embrace as you hear Him heal. We'll see you next week.