Leann Bowen is a writer and producer who has worked on shows including Ted Lasso, Dear White People, and I Love You, America. Based in Los Angeles, she’s also spent years as a socialist organizer, including as a member of the Democratic Socialists of America.
In this interview we discuss everything from the utility of Ted Lasso’s twee veneer to the revolutionary heritage of the Black Panther party.
Follow Leann on Instagram and Twitter!
Thanks for listening and supporting left media. If you’re interested in conversations about the intersections of creativity and social change hosted by a socialist organizer, please follow along for this 8 episode “Season One”. I am also so grateful for comments or shares that help us reach more people!
Here’s some links to your favorite websites. I’d love to hear from you.
- Jordan
And Roses Website
Youtube
Instagram
Twitter
Leann Bowen is a writer and producer who has worked on shows including Ted Lasso, Dear White People, and I Love You, America. Based in Los Angeles, she’s also spent years as a socialist organizer, including as a member of the Democratic Socialists of America.
In this interview we discuss everything from the utility of Ted Lasso’s twee veneer to the revolutionary heritage of the Black Panther party.
Follow Leann on Instagram and Twitter!
Thanks for listening and supporting left media. If you’re interested in conversations about the intersections of creativity and social change hosted by a socialist organizer, please follow along for this 8 episode “Season One”. I am also so grateful for comments or shares that help us reach more people!
Here’s some links to your favorite websites. I’d love to hear from you.
- Jordan
And Roses Website
Youtube
Instagram
Twitter
Hi everybody. Welcome to And Roses. I'm Jordan, and I'm excited to dive in to another in depth conversation about the intersections of creativity and social change. This is the eighth episode. I've been having so much fun working on this project. Every episode is a labor of love, and I'm really excited to have had the chance to like explore some really fascinating conversations with the artists and organizers. All about the ways that, you know, we're navigating our creative dreams and our desires to fight for a better world. I've gotten so much enjoyment out of doing this. Trying to put out a thoughtful new media project when there's already so much stuff out there is, it's definitely an uphill battle. So if, if you've been enjoying anything you've heard or seen from Anne Roses, please post about it, tag us. tell people to follow along. I'm so grateful for all the support but this is me asking for even more. Please give me some encouragement that this is actually something that you like hearing. Now, for this week, I'm so excited to be speaking with my guest, Leanne Bowen. Leanne, how are ya?
squadcaster-ije8_1_06-11-2024_141117:Hi. I'm great. Thank you for having me.
jordan_1_06-11-2024_141117:So happy to have you here. Leanne is a writer and producer who's worked on shows including Ted Lasso, Dear White People, and I Love You, America. Based in Los Angeles, she's also spent years as a socialist organizer, including as a member of the Democratic Socialists of America. So today we're going to chat about her journey in Hollywood, her thoughts on organizing, and whether or not Ted Lasso is just Tweed, liberal, dross. Leanne, I actually, before we get into any of that, I was doing some research and I was looking at your IMDB page and did you know that you have exactly one piece of trivia on your IMDB page? Do you? So it says Leanne Bowen. Trivia, has the word Maki Baka tattooed on her left arm? It is a Tagalog word, meaning to fight, that is popular among Filipino activists. I was gonna ask if you yourself had added this, but, but that's not the case.
squadcaster-ije8_1_06-11-2024_141117:No, absolutely not. I did do an interview with the Filipino news channel and I mentioned it. I guess there, I think there's a Wikipedia page about me out there somewhere too, but I, it's so funny that people are like on the internet, just like cross referencing and adding information. That's hilarious.
jordan_1_06-11-2024_141117:If, if you could add an additional piece of trivia what, what would you like your second piece of trivia to be?
squadcaster-ije8_1_06-11-2024_141117:I wouldn't, I can't, I don't, I feel weird even having trivia on there. No, I don't, I don't know.
jordan_1_06-11-2024_141117:What we,
squadcaster-ije8_1_06-11-2024_141117:I, I'll say my tattoo is if you wanted to know what that was, that's, well, so the tattoo Maka Baka is my mom was an activist. She's Filipino. She was an activist. And so that was one of the like slogans or chants or, you know, of the movement. And that's on the back of my arm. And the front of my arm is. All power to the people because my dad was in the Black Panther Party. So I have two slogans actually on my arm. One
jordan_1_06-11-2024_141117:this sounds like a second piece of trivia.
squadcaster-ije8_1_06-11-2024_141117:Yeah,
jordan_1_06-11-2024_141117:waiting to happen.
squadcaster-ije8_1_06-11-2024_141117:Who's
jordan_1_06-11-2024_141117:maybe maybe somebody will hear this and get inspired
squadcaster-ije8_1_06-11-2024_141117:That would
jordan_1_06-11-2024_141117:Go up
squadcaster-ije8_1_06-11-2024_141117:insane. I had no idea. Thank you for that. That's really funny. I love that.
jordan_1_06-11-2024_141117:Absolutely. So I wanted to start by talking just a little bit about your work, you know, most recently on Ted Lasso. And I think this is really interesting because, you know, you're somebody who I've gotten to know as a socialist organizer. And I watched, enjoyed Ted Lasso, but one of the sort of things of media criticism that had been coming up in the few years It's something that I don't totally disagree with which is that you know, you tackle a lot of social issues. Racism, homophobia But it can seem, a little like liberal and twee, like social issues being solved through the power of in the final season, it's like greedy billionaires, back down from their, their greedy scheme because somebody delivers like a really impassioned speech and, you know, changes their hearts. How do you feel about criticism like that?
squadcaster-ije8_1_06-11-2024_141117:I think that's fair. I think the criticism is super fair. You know, from the inside, I would say Hollywood tends to be more liberal than radical. I would agree with that assessment of a lot of things that are on TV right now. However, from a writer's point of view and an artist's point of view I think every piece of every TV show has a theme, and when you go into a room and you pitch a show, you pitch a theme, it's always part of your deck. And I would say Ted Lasso's theme is inherently not although there are like and stuff in there, but I think If you were to view Ted Lasso as a piece of propaganda, which is like what most art is the point that this piece is trying to make is to combat cynicism to promote creative out of the box approaches to problems. I know that sounds crazy, but if you view it as a comedy You know, scene where Rebecca is in a room full of billionaires and through an impassioned speech changes their minds. No one in that writer's room thinks that's how you take down billionaires. I guarantee you, we are a room of like 17 people, and of course that's not how you handle billionaires. But what that point of the scene was, was a personal challenge the character was facing. her standing up, her finding courage, her defeating, her thinking that she could defeat what seems like an impossible challenge, and deciding to do it. That she had the power to do so is the point of that? scene. You know, I think it would be a pretty boring show to see us try to take, do what it takes to take on billionaires. And I don't think that's the point of Ted Lasso. I think the point of Ted Lasso is defeating cynicism. You have this character who is in a country that is notoriously cynical and notoriously, you know, all the characters in season one that Ted runs into are very cynical people. And, to keep the long story short, I think that's what the show is about.
jordan_1_06-11-2024_141117:Yeah.
squadcaster-ije8_1_06-11-2024_141117:and, and so, and I think that it's, and I think it, it hits that theme and it serves that thesis and everything it does. And at the same time, it's like comedy is a farce, you know, it's, it's a, it's a fucking cartoon.
jordan_1_06-11-2024_141117:Yeah.
squadcaster-ije8_1_06-11-2024_141117:So there's so many comedies out there that we just let, we just suspend belief. For the enjoyment and point of the show. And I think us as, you know, socialists or communists or anti-capitalist be like, nah, you know, we are so tuned in to that, like that going on in the world that we are like our, we like red flags go off.
jordan_1_06-11-2024_141117:Hmm.
squadcaster-ije8_1_06-11-2024_141117:but I think the point of the show is, is defeating cynicism, which I might add, is. The point of, I mean, I would not go as far as to say that Ted Lasso is there to support a revolutionary mind.
jordan_1_06-11-2024_141117:Thank you for not, thank you for not saying that.
squadcaster-ije8_1_06-11-2024_141117:it's not, it's definitely not. But in my own understanding of what it takes to be a revolutionary, you know, my uncle, he was a, he was a Filipino activist and a revolutionary. And one thing that has always stuck with me, he said, you know, a revolutionary is an ultimately a positive person. A person who matter. Whatever hard line status quo that the system tries to establish a revolutionary has the creativity and the belief that it can be broken and it can be changed. And so if you want to hold those two thoughts about Ted Lasso and the revolutionary mind in the same space, go ahead. I don't think that was the point of the creators, but I will like, I'll, I'll support that. Yeah. man. And in organizing, we meet people where they are. We believe in. And we believe in the power of each other. God, I said, believe and we see people for who they are and their strengths and what they have to contribute. So I would say that It's, not that far from the work that we do,
jordan_1_06-11-2024_141117:Yeah.
squadcaster-ije8_1_06-11-2024_141117:I, I totally, and believe me, I completely understand the twee sort of. of Ted Leslie because yeah, but it's, a cartoon. Yeah, you know.
jordan_1_06-11-2024_141117:It's, it's it's interesting cause I mean, you, you've worked on like other cool projects already in your career, but Ted Lasso ended up being like the biggest thing that you've worked on. What, what was, what was that like? Were there any like specific contributions that you were able to make that you're really proud of?
squadcaster-ije8_1_06-11-2024_141117:I would say being in the room there are a ton of contributions that I am proud of? I would say like, the etiquette is to like, list them off, you know?
jordan_1_06-11-2024_141117:Oh, I don't know about this. Sorry. I'm outside of this world.
squadcaster-ije8_1_06-11-2024_141117:don't worry about it. We like came down on one of our actors also a writer which is like you can deduce who that is But he did an interview on like Kimmel and he just said Said one thing that he was proud of and he came into the writer's room. We're like, what are you doing, dude? Like, you can't do that. It's a collaborative. You can't take credit for anything, you know?'cause it's such a collaborative effort. And then like anyone who does comedy improv knows that one idea gets morphed into another idea. And so we all take credit for everything and nothing. So, I, I liked being in a room with, I love everyone in the writer's room. I really liked working with everyone. We didn't think it would be the biggest show in the world. I think absolutely not. We thought, we thought we're doing a show about soccer with an character from a sketch show and it just kind of turned into this amazing thing. Yeah.
jordan_1_06-11-2024_141117:I would love to learn about your journey so far. You are somebody who is involved with producing one of the most popular television shows on the planet. And how did, how did you get here? What's, what's your story?
squadcaster-ije8_1_06-11-2024_141117:Yeah. So, I got into comedy through the UCB theater here in Hollywood. And it was really, honestly, I did not go in thinking that I would come out with a career in television. It was, I genuinely did it. To challenge myself personally and do something fun and grow, feels weird, but I fell in love with it. Me, opening the door to Performance and comedy and stuff was like this really cool experience I had and I Did it and I did it religiously and I think I got pretty decent at it And through being at the USP theater I made a lot of friends and connections. And yeah, I got my Management. I was on stage. I did a show where I did character sketch character. I was Rosa Parks in hell
jordan_1_06-11-2024_141117:Okay.
squadcaster-ije8_1_06-11-2024_141117:and and I was just commenting on all the people I saw on how and how and why they were actually there. And it was fun and I just, they're having to be representation in the audience and they said, Hey, what do you, you know, do you want to be wrapped in that? It's such a Hollywood story and it doesn't happen very often. It was a really cool thing. And then
jordan_1_06-11-2024_141117:Well, can I say, it is interesting you say that you were, you know, working on it religiously because I have heard people describe UCB as kind of like a cult
squadcaster-ije8_1_06-11-2024_141117:yeah,
jordan_1_06-11-2024_141117:But, but you were like one of the success stories. It did work for you,
squadcaster-ije8_1_06-11-2024_141117:it did work for me, but I would say I, I didn't feel like I was part of the cult, you, know, and not to knock UCB, but I was, I went in a little older than everyone else. So I did it like personally, religiously,
jordan_1_06-11-2024_141117:but, and you weren't even necessarily doing that because you were trying to have, like, trying to have a new career, like, or what was it that you had wanted to do before then?
squadcaster-ije8_1_06-11-2024_141117:I want to be a documentary filmmaker.
jordan_1_06-11-2024_141117:Okay, so you were still interested like in the industry
squadcaster-ije8_1_06-11-2024_141117:I was still interested in the industry. And I do have like a huge background as my dad was an organizer. My mom was an organizer and I had an interest in working with social issues and global issues and like, using media as a way to explore those ideas. And propagate them and then comedy was just like so fun and like, Cool and interesting and then as everyone around me was pursuing that, I was like, Oh, that would be fantastic if I could do. And so, and I did yeah, yeah.
jordan_1_06-11-2024_141117:Cool and I was and sorry so you were saying after you you found the representation What was what was the next move?
squadcaster-ije8_1_06-11-2024_141117:I wrote a pilot that was about my time organizing on campus. I was part of BSU at the college I was a part of and I integrated my character was Loosely based on me and my experiences having a dad as a panther and like, what are the challenges facing a young organizer today versus what she looked up to of her father. As a organizer then, and I, and I, I made it a comedy and Dear White People happened to be staffing at that same time. And it was pretty serendipitous because I was, I was a writer who didn't, it's very hard to. break your way into the industry. And it just happened to be that this show was like pilot and the showrunner took a chance on me as a person with no experience in a room, which was also a really cool thing. And it just worked out. And then from there, I just got
jordan_1_06-11-2024_141117:Yeah,
squadcaster-ije8_1_06-11-2024_141117:meetings and eight, you know, so on and so forth.
jordan_1_06-11-2024_141117:it does all seem like it was very serendipitous were there like I don't know any lessons learned the hard way along the way
squadcaster-ije8_1_06-11-2024_141117:Yeah. I mean, There was a stage in my career where I was like super obsessed with like breaking into the industry and that just was like tearing me down like I guess I I mean if anyone else is in this you listen to me so yeah, I think the lesson learned is to like go at your own pace for me and like sure I write and I contribute and I dedicate my time to things that like You are worthwhile to me. And that has always been the learning process and the journey that I've been on. And yeah, there's a lot of different things you can do, but like, I know it's cliche, but staying true to like, your own voice and your point of view and who you are is like, super important to just like, your emotional well being.
jordan_1_06-11-2024_141117:Yeah
squadcaster-ije8_1_06-11-2024_141117:Yeah
jordan_1_06-11-2024_141117:well, it's that's actually really interesting you say that I feel like something that People don't really talk about like selling out anymore. I, I, which is not something I'm accusing you of, but I feel like it used to be this sort of thing where it's like if you want to be like a true authentic I don't know, like activists or somebody who cares about issues, then it's just like anything mainstream is like that's that's selling out. I am wondering if you can talk about somebody who. Yeah, I was, I is a socialist as somebody who has had actual real organizing experience. Like, were there times where your like actual values created friction for you in trying to get into the industry? How did you navigate that? Yeah,
squadcaster-ije8_1_06-11-2024_141117:of a show. I am, I definitely feel like I am labor. Like, I feel like I am servicing, I'm, I, which is, yeah, I'm part of a union. Like, I am, My creative labor is being used to produce a product, which is a show that is being controlled and and sort of like, so it's someone else's vision. So, I do impart as much as like my own style and point of view and personality, but at the end of the day, I got to write a script based on an outline that was approved by this person that got notes from this person. And at the end of the day, yeah, man, my fucking work is, is labor. And it, yeah. Feels like it. You know, I've had rooms where I have to stay in the room till three o'clock in the morning to hit a deadline. I, it very quickly became apparent to me of that I am labor and, you know, The more and more I see studios and networks on top of me that? are sort of like, have this directive of what they want to produce and put out in a timely manner at a certain price point. Yeah, I, very often feel like a cog in a machine. there's a lot of joy that comes with collaborating with other creative people. That you can, like, sort of, like, complain about that with, or break, try to break through with, or, you know, kind of secretly sort of create within those constraints you know, and as with our last strike, you know, it was very apparent of, like, where are the differences between, like, you know, being creative versus, you know, making money for someone else.
jordan_1_06-11-2024_141117:yeah, definitely.
squadcaster-ije8_1_06-11-2024_141117:Yeah.
jordan_1_06-11-2024_141117:Well, with everything being so like collaborative and especially like some of the. Some of the projects you've worked on have been almost like explicitly political or have had, you know messages about Social values like we were just talking about Ted lasso, but I mean maybe even more so with dear white people not that you know, I Want you to or expect you to like name and shame anybody? But have there been any times where just like in the course of the creative process ideas that you wanted to articulate? Have been met with like resistance by other people
squadcaster-ije8_1_06-11-2024_141117:Yeah, I think a lot of the idea, like I, I came into Dear White People the same year I joined DSA and I was, you know, I do have like, super radical sort of like perspective on, on. social issues and economic issues. And when I, sometimes they're just so foreign to so many people in the industry and writer's room. And not because they're against them, but because they literally have never examined the world in that way. They've never heard or experienced or it's so foreign sometimes, and when you try to explain it, it's like, oh, no, no, no, that's, that's weird, that's crazy, I, I can't understand that. One example, I was in a room, and I just jokingly sort of said, like, well, you can't ethically make a billion dollars, and I was in a room with a bunch of people who consider themselves, like, You know, consider themselves in the term of their sense of left. And they're like, well, I mean, you can. And you know, people are popping off. They were like, well, what about Oprah? Like Oprah is, you know, she's like, In
jordan_1_06-11-2024_141117:she's good.
squadcaster-ije8_1_06-11-2024_141117:word. And I'm just like, no man, she, she earned, she got contracts and billions of dollars from companies like Viacom, or companies like CBS, who are like, they're fucking conglomerates and fucking corporations. You know, and I, I don't mind saying this about Oprah now, but OWN is, her company is non union and that was met with like, oh, non union, ooh, really unethical. It's like, but then that, to them, a non union status is just like a check where it's like, if they, if you really examine, you know, what it means for someone to work a 15 hour day on shitty pay with no, You know, no support, as far as a union to fight for them, you know, that's like, that is like crazy. So yeah. So when you break it down and someone else was like, what about LeBron? You know, he's like, he came from nothing and he just made himself a billionaire. I was like, no, he did. And he got a sponsorship from like Nike and Nike. Is that an ethical, like the money it's practically blood money that You know, you know, you know, you can't and, and that was such a like, you know, curtains off sort of like for a lot of people. So yeah, I've, you know, the industry is like notoriously liberal. And the reason for that is because there's a lot of money in the industry. I would say than half of the people in the industry see the money that can be made. And so instinctually attracts profiteers and The bourgeois class and and they're pitted against artists. Artists turn into that. Artists see, like, oh, I have, like, a 2 million dollar house, is not a lot now because of the way housing, but, like, I have a, you know, I got to protect that you know, I got to, like, Invest in this you just you just like in the industry immediately skyrockets you into this class
jordan_1_06-11-2024_141117:Right.
squadcaster-ije8_1_06-11-2024_141117:That it is and you contend with as a socialist. I myself contend with.
jordan_1_06-11-2024_141117:Yeah, well, with the, conglomeration, the consolidation of capital in the industry, like historically in Hollywood, there were, and I'm very fuzzy on this history. You might be able to enlighten me a little bit, but there were moments where it really was like red Hollywood. Like there was like socialists and communists, like. Staffing up and trying to use the studios to like spread their propaganda and of course this was like targeted by McCarthyism and the blacklisting But in today's environment, is it even is it even worth trying like the conditions are different Is it is it possible to try to use hollywood as if you're somebody who's a socialist? Can you can you get your project made? Can you get your influence on when you're you're swimming uphill against all of these profiteers?
squadcaster-ije8_1_06-11-2024_141117:you should and you could because at the end of the day, you are the power, you are their power, so when, you know, Adam McKay makes, like, Don't Look Up, or know, no one's going to say, Adam McKay, please stop talking about this, you know? It takes a not to say that I am like, I co signed that movie or anything, but yeah, man, like, you can I mean, secretly, if I were to like, if you were to look into like, the little wheels in my brain, I'm like, biding my time until I can like, really like, inseminate media with like, socialist propaganda. But it's such a weird place to be in because it's harder and harder to make that kind of art with the way the industry is but but at the end of the day, if it's what people want and what the people love and what the people come back for, then, the industry they want that, you
jordan_1_06-11-2024_141117:Hmm
squadcaster-ije8_1_06-11-2024_141117:it's, it's like, we both want that, you know, it's, I guess it would be the one thing that the artists and the industry would agree upon is like, is like making media for people and people consuming it in mass.
jordan_1_06-11-2024_141117:So, so then the other thing that I was wondering about is I think a lot of people, yeah, maybe, maybe see that as a possibility. But I think a lot of people on the left. There's a real tension and this is something that sort of comes up like on this show It's like I have like these creative dreams I want to like create propaganda and I want to like, get into the system as it exists not to change it from the inside per se but you know Just like pursuing a creative career and trying to do that Socialistly versus the realization of okay. Well, like I couldn't get my dream job I I couldn't get in there and I like the change is so urgently needed rather than like Just spending a bunch of time trying to build a creative career. Like I'm just going to organize or I'm going to get a job as a teacher or as a nurse and some strategic sector yeah. How do you, how do you think about like navigating that sort of just, you know, you don't have time to necessarily do it all. You don't, you don't necessarily have as much time for like knocking doors or canvassing when your career actually does take off.
squadcaster-ije8_1_06-11-2024_141117:Yeah. I mean, I, I, I don't think I got into the industry to do that. I did it cause I do have, I'm an artist and I have a love of creating and being funny and making comedy. It's a bonus that is like a parallel directive of mine. But I don't think that is at the end of the day great. Success of like what I try to do. And I would say anyone trying to get in the industry has the same sort of struggles with landing a job, making it, getting anything made is a struggle. And, know, As someone who was trying for a long time to balance organizing and working in the industry. I just had two kids. It's like it is. It's, it's impossible. So you just have to choose a path that like satisfies you as a person. But at the same time, doesn't compromise, you know, I mean, you have to make compromises, but doesn't compromise too much of what, your time worthwhile I will say it's like, I think we're all working in conjunction with each other as organizers, whether it be, like, on the ground working with people versus, like, creating media that can, like, break through ideas, you know, I, I do think we're in this important phase. Where we truly have to educate and like educate, educate, educate, and I would say that's something that we kind of up on in our early days organizing. I would say we are, we were so, at my time and we still are, is like, Yeah, we have generations of like a couple generations of people are so far removed from like examining the world and like in a way that like the status quo of what we're living in doesn't have to be this way.
jordan_1_06-11-2024_141117:Hmm.
squadcaster-ije8_1_06-11-2024_141117:and we need to support people's education about social issues and education rather than just being like, Oh, you don't know this. So you are, you're the fucking enemy.
jordan_1_06-11-2024_141117:Yeah
squadcaster-ije8_1_06-11-2024_141117:Yeah, we, we, we do. We have to educate in a way that is like super supportive of our movement and of them as people, as human beings, because I think at the end of the day, we all want something good, you know, and it's just like, how do we get there? And the more we, like, close doors to people's, to ideas, it's like, it just, we're shooting ourselves in the foot. So, that being said we, there's a multi pronged sort of way that we can all collaboratively engage in that process. Whether it's going to meetings, talking to your neighbors, creating a movie with just, like, the tiniest little, theme of you know, challenging systems. Yeah it's. like tiny chisels at this wall that we're all doing. So no one way is the right way.'cause the best you could be in that process is the best that could possibly happen.
jordan_1_06-11-2024_141117:What I appreciate about you is of course like you're not just somebody who talks to talk and has like big ideas about how to make the world a better place Like you have walked the walk when when we met it was because you were somebody Uh, and in fact, I was actually thinking about this the other day. I moved to Los Angeles, I became a member of DSA, Democratic Socialists of America, when I was living in San Diego. And it was this time when like a lot of people were joining, like after Trump got elected,
squadcaster-ije8_1_06-11-2024_141117:Yeah.
jordan_1_06-11-2024_141117:one of my first meetings there and it was just like kind of overwhelming. I didn't really know how to get plugged in. It was kind of far from my house. I don't, I maybe went back once, but I knew I was moving to Los Angeles later in the year. So I was like, Oh, what's next? I'll try again when I get to Los Angeles. I was really excited, you know, to come to L. A. There's a new, you know, chapter of this socialist organization. A new chance for me to join. And I went to, there was like a picnic. And I was like, okay, this is so awesome. I get to meet the other socialists. I brought my girlfriend, I brought two other friends and maybe it was just because of the fact that like we showed up as a group and it looked like we were people that knew each other. It's not like there was just somebody sitting by themselves, but like nobody came and talked to us and I was like, I don't. What's good? Everybody's just here talking to themselves. Nobody came up and talked to us except for you
squadcaster-ije8_1_06-11-2024_141117:Yeah.
jordan_1_06-11-2024_141117:were like the person that came up and like you recognized that you know, we were new there and We chatted you gave me some information. It was great So you were somebody who even when I was getting involved in trying to like Trying to like knock down the door and learn how to be a socialist You were somebody who for me made it a little bit easier than it would have been otherwise you Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, Leanne. But I, I would love to learn a little bit more about kind of, yeah, your journey to that point, just in terms of like your, you know, political developments.
squadcaster-ije8_1_06-11-2024_141117:Yeah.
jordan_1_06-11-2024_141117:from a very unique position. Not a lot of people have to organize their parents, especially not a father who is in the Black Panther Party.
squadcaster-ije8_1_06-11-2024_141117:Yeah, I think I, I think a lot of people give me a lot more credit because of that. I, I wouldn't say that I, I feel a type of way about people giving me that credit when I, I've been around so many organizers. I'm like, man, you guys are fantastic. And like how much you've educated yourself and how much you dedicate your time effort and, and energy is amazing. And I think I get, I do think I get too much credit, I would say That specific experience, I was a member of like, the membership committee, and so we have whole meetings about like, you know, how to integrate, like, meet people and integrate people and make them feel welcome. So, I think that was a directive of the membership committee. But yeah, so my dad was in the Black Panther Party. My mom. was in this group called NCRCLP, which is a socialist Filipino organization that formed after the Marcos dictatorship. They were also heavily involved in organizing in LA and with migrant workers in California, and that's how my mom and dad met. They were just in the same circles. They were in a Marxist reading group with Karen Bass, dare I say it.
jordan_1_06-11-2024_141117:Wow.
squadcaster-ije8_1_06-11-2024_141117:she would hate, she'd like, she'd like, have, don't, don't, don't let anyone know. But
jordan_1_06-11-2024_141117:I'm clipping it.
squadcaster-ije8_1_06-11-2024_141117:There's Yeah. it's funny because like LA before that time was a very like conservatively run City, and then there was this like generation of like like markerly Thomas or what's his name?
jordan_1_06-11-2024_141117:Yeah. Yes.
squadcaster-ije8_1_06-11-2024_141117:Yeah, he was also a Marxist.
jordan_1_06-11-2024_141117:Mhm. Mhm.
squadcaster-ije8_1_06-11-2024_141117:whole crop of like little radical kids in the 60s and 70s that are doing what we're kind of doing now in LA. We have how many people on city council? God forbid that they move right the way that Karen and Mark did. But But yeah, so, they met and they were in that L. A. scene, and they met and they got married they had us, and then quickly after they had kids moved into like domestic life. Like my mom got a full time job at Amtrak and my dad was an electrician. but then my, my dad eventually moved back to organizing. He moved back up. My parents split and my dad moved up North and he continued being an organizer in Northern California. So I was always like, my dad would. Like take me to meetings and I would like in meetings for hours as people just talk and talk. And as a kid, it was like, but I think being in those spaces, I think, makes me comfortable and organization. like, kind of exciting now to be in the space and I genuinely miss it because of kids and COVID. But yeah, I, I, I want to keep doing it. And I, and I, I want to like retire. I mean, I got to support these kids now. I'm feeling a little like my parents, but I want to retire and go back, get back to it or find time later doing it. So, I don't think I'm special or anything, but you know, my parents, I did know, I did understand capitalism at a very young age. My dad, Took me to hear Nelson Mandela speak when I was eight, when I was in the mid 90s, I went to the Black Panther reunion and like Tupac's mom was there speaking and I was just like, it's Tupac's mom! Of Phoebe Shakur and Angela Davis and yeah, maybe it's because I didn't know anything else, but it just seemed all pretty normal to me. And so it's not hard. I guess it was never hard for me to challenge ideas and stuff like that. Cause like, yeah, I guess, yeah, it's a pretty anti-capitalist
jordan_1_06-11-2024_141117:Was there ever a moment where, you know, you wanted to rebel against your parents and you considered becoming, like, a free market?
squadcaster-ije8_1_06-11-2024_141117:no. I mean, I will say like, I like wanted a fast car and like, I like things, you know, I say that's the extent of like me, like supporting the free market having things seen, but those aren't, those aren't conditional to capitalism. If
jordan_1_06-11-2024_141117:Yeah.
squadcaster-ije8_1_06-11-2024_141117:capitalism limits you more. Yeah, it's allowed. I would say I'm a champagne socialist. I would say. Every seat in, on a plane should feel like first class.
jordan_1_06-11-2024_141117:Yeah.
squadcaster-ije8_1_06-11-2024_141117:deserve it. Yeah. we don't
jordan_1_06-11-2024_141117:Oh. Leanne
squadcaster-ije8_1_06-11-2024_141117:all have a glass of champagne in the lie back seat. Like, that is who I am.
jordan_1_06-11-2024_141117:is defending air travel.
squadcaster-ije8_1_06-11-2024_141117:know, I'm
jordan_1_06-11-2024_141117:I was with you up until that point. I need to draw the line. How about the first class experience on a train?
squadcaster-ije8_1_06-11-2024_141117:on a train? Well, I mean, we, if, if, if it weren't so profitable to have these, you know, Combustion engine planes. What's innovate technology that it is more like ecologically like sound, like let's,
jordan_1_06-11-2024_141117:Yeah,
squadcaster-ije8_1_06-11-2024_141117:it. Like, you know, let's get creative.
jordan_1_06-11-2024_141117:yeah, I think everybody should spend, you know, a year or two of their lives just, you know, working as like the The attendant on the train delivering the first class experience and then for the rest of your life You get to enjoy the the first class experience
squadcaster-ije8_1_06-11-2024_141117:I think the attendance should have their own car. That is a first class experience and their shifts should only be like two, two and a half hours at a time.
jordan_1_06-11-2024_141117:Okay
squadcaster-ije8_1_06-11-2024_141117:And champagne for everyone in all aspects
jordan_1_06-11-2024_141117:We'll figure, we'll figure this out.
squadcaster-ije8_1_06-11-2024_141117:We'll get, we'll get there, we'll get there, we'll get there. We'll start at the Google Doc.
jordan_1_06-11-2024_141117:I, I am curious because yeah, and fully understandable people, you feel like people give you too much credit just because of sort of the legacy of your parents, but just like in your, in your own experience, you were involved with like student organizing and then you were involved with DSA socialist organizing. Now from this period where, yeah, you've gotten busy, you're a mother. I'm just kind of curious, like. Have your, have your thoughts on, you know, like what, what should people who wants to change the world be doing? Like, what should that organization look like?
squadcaster-ije8_1_06-11-2024_141117:I think it's been said, but, start local and work on, you know, I mean, ultimately start personal making sure you're taking care of yourself and making sure your objectives are clear. And making sure that you have time and space to, like, take care of yourself well. Doing the work and then, Yeah, just engaging locally with an organization and, this is things that we try to do in DSA is like not reinvent the wheel, but sort of like join a wheel and sort of like contribute as much as you can to, there's like so many organizations and groups of people that need power, need people and And taking small steps there and not, and also like recognizing that you're not going to change the world in a day, you know, it's like, it is incremental. It's, you know, not in a liberal sense, but like, it's incremental in in the work that you do day to day and, and making sure you like find satisfaction in that And and making sure your, your personal matches your political about way you interact with people and support people and treat people and, like, respect people and, like, also give your own boundaries. It is small, it's super small and, like, the time will come and the movement will come. Where, like, you are so connected in this smaller unit that, you know, power can grow through those things sort of aligning and communicating well,
jordan_1_06-11-2024_141117:Yeah, well, you mentioned the sort of like organization aspect of that and yeah, like, I feel like several years ago, I heard people saying this, or maybe especially really like peaked around 2020, you know, in this moment where, like, so many people are just so confused, like, what's going on in the world? What can we do? And a really common refrain was like, join an organization just like join, join an organization. And, you know, lots of people were pointing to. The specific organization that they thought that folks should join. I'm a member of DSA. I've tried to tell people to join DSA. But I also have noticed a trend. From what I understand, membership in a lot of political organizations since 2020 has kind of fallen off of a cliff and like DSA, actually it is an exception in the fact that like membership hasn't necessarily plummeted.
squadcaster-ije8_1_06-11-2024_141117:Hmm.
jordan_1_06-11-2024_141117:I think a lot of people did sort of attempt to join an organization, but then, you know, run into the, the frictions of, okay, there's like hostility inside it, you know, creates extra like emotional baggage in your life.
squadcaster-ije8_1_06-11-2024_141117:Yeah.
jordan_1_06-11-2024_141117:of course, like, as you know, the economy has opened back up and things have gone back to normal. I'm doing air quotes. If you're just listening just like getting busy with work again or having a family actually became like just real material obstacles to participating in an organization You're and you're somebody who I think like that was kind of what what happened to you like with with work and and now you're a mother like
squadcaster-ije8_1_06-11-2024_141117:Yeah.
jordan_1_06-11-2024_141117:What are your thoughts about that phrase or that idea like join an organization when you're at a stage in your life where it's like The level of participation that you have experienced in the past like it's just not feasible for you anymore
squadcaster-ije8_1_06-11-2024_141117:Yeah. I think it isn't feasible. It's really difficult. I will when I have the time. I will absolutely come back to organizing and contributing. I think that pressure to like constantly be like be a part of it and do it and do it is like, It's not helpful. If you can join an organization, you have time. That's fantastic And I will come to it when I can but if I can't I can't and You know, I, I do think that there, there is an opportunity for organizations to realize that, that, that as a setback and create create opportunities for people with limited time and make sure that those opportunities are presented to people. Hey, I know you may have like a family or this or that, but like, you could do this if you want to do this. And so on and so forth. But like, if you can't, you can, that's fine. I mean, it's, it, this is, this whole movement is like, it's longer, it'll be longer than our lifetime. So like, let's just do what we can when we can and know that someone will pop in and someone will pop out. Someone will pop in, someone will pop out and like support, support, support. the people who are in it for the long run and the long time and doing it the whole time. Like kudos to them.
jordan_1_06-11-2024_141117:Yeah,
squadcaster-ije8_1_06-11-2024_141117:That's fantastic. But like, yeah just that. That pressure to be always on and doing it is like, it's just too much.
jordan_1_06-11-2024_141117:Yeah, yeah
squadcaster-ije8_1_06-11-2024_141117:be a condition of a capitalist society of like, you have to be working, you have to be productive at all stages. And it's like, yeah, that might, that's like, let's pull out and pull back and like realize how long this is going to be and what we can contribute and see the value of like, you know, not killing ourselves. Of guilt, I guess, but like being like supportive of what we can do and hopefully make it easier.
jordan_1_06-11-2024_141117:yeah
squadcaster-ije8_1_06-11-2024_141117:make it people easier for other people.
jordan_1_06-11-2024_141117:I want one final question kind of on the subject of organizing and We can actually skip this if you feel like you don't have a great answer. But, but yeah, the Not a lot of people got to grow up in, like, proximity to a member of the Black Panther Party. Yet looking back, I feel like there were so many, like,, radical, revolutionary organizations in that era in the 60s and 70s. But Black Panther Party has a kind of, like, uniquely enduring legacy. A lot more people have heard of it than than many others it's something that you hear people point to free, breakfast programs and you know, like community like education And there's so many it's it's really like lauded as like, oh if we could you know, we should be more like that if we could be more like that or function more like them like we would be in a better position as the left And yeah, i'm just kind of curious. Like what are some things that You You know, you, you wish that, that in your experience or that you observed, like, were really positive or what are some things that you feel like maybe aren't actually as well suited for the moment that we live in anymore? Yeah.
squadcaster-ije8_1_06-11-2024_141117:The material necessity for them was pretty visceral. Like my dad grew up in Richmond and it was formed in Oakland. And I remember the first page of the first black Panther party newspaper was this kid, Denzel Dowell, who was 16 and he was shot by the police and his body was just left in the street to die. And like, we now, like, and that happened often and regularly. And it was like, You know, like there was the bombing in Alabama where, like, kids were bombed, which, you know, we're, now we are also viscerally dealing with that now. so when the moment, like, that is, like, the material necessity for it was just so, there was no radicalization needed, there was no education needed, there was no convincing needed for for black people to like, was like, Yeah. I get it, you know, there. And so, and so that was like, it was almost so it had to happen. And along with that, there was also another side of the coin, which was the nonviolent, resistance to racism and subjugation that was happening. that was, that predated the Black Panther Party. So, Yeah, it, it the, the country, the system, the country had pushed us, everyone into that moment I would, you know, and so organizing was not easier, but like necessary. And I would say now that the system has learned, like, as we are learning, and the system is also learning that, like, You have to sort of sedate, and you have to sort of placate, and you have to give, oh, let's give some people a seat at the table. And so that it is like, it's harder. You know, it's like, if the movement is to divest from a system that profits from war, that is a little more convoluted, rather than like, get your gun, cock it, load it, we're patrolling the streets, because these things are happening. Motherfuckers can't shoot us anymore. It's like, it's a, it's a different, it's a different thing to attack. I would say one thing I was impressed with when I went to the anniversary of the Black Panther Party, I was really impressed. Every panel that I saw and listened to, they were reflective of themselves. What did we do right? What did we do wrong? You know, and it was always about they, I was, I, it has stuck with me of the, their personal responsibility they felt as organizers over themselves, despite probably their takedown being, you know, agencies and the police and the CIA and, and efforts to quell them. And I think that's something that we can do as well. And so, you know, this, I don't think we can replicate what that, the Black Panther Party did. You know, they were, they were a group of people, they're Black people, a group of people who were, look at each other and see themselves in each other. See the, exactly what each other were going through. And I think when we're, with like economic issues or capitalism or like, at the same time, you know, like the the labor movement was like, children were dying in factories, you know, like it was so visceral a need to organize labor against the shit Now it just mean, everything is pushing us to that, again. And the moment will happen again because, you know, we will resist. When will happen when, but we just don't want to get to that point, you know, we don't want to get to that visceral point where we have to, we want to do with it now and effectively, but we don't want to see people die from being overworked and not having healthcare. I mean, it's, but but, yeah, it's the moment call for it and it will do it again. And, know,
jordan_1_06-11-2024_141117:Yeah, just that, that idea of that, like sort of moment of radicalization. It's a very sobering um, period of time. It's kind of like the end of, of 2020 around the, the presidential election. It was like we had had COVID and it was like society is shutting down and then everybody's at home. And then that summer there are just protests and some places riots and uprising in the streets. And that like truly felt like this could be a moment like people have had enough. They're recognizing like they're waking up and being able to By the end of that year, like, that energy had not entirely dissipated, but there, like, the tension was gone. It was, let's get back to normal, for the most part, and it was just kind of this moment of like, oh, I'm, you know, I'm a revolutionary socialist. Like, we're trying to build, like, a mass movement to, like, completely change the world order, but the fact of the matter is that, at least for right now, dissipated. Despite, like, how shitty everything feels like it's getting and, like, actual statistically is getting shitty like, people still are just, like, feel like there is a normal that they're comfortable with and they are happy to preserve that, and that is actually the moment that we're in, by and large.
squadcaster-ije8_1_06-11-2024_141117:I, I, I would say that's a product of the system, of like, giving us just enough, you know, you know, God, like Elizabeth Warren's video where she like, people, but put like, in like, the background on like, a, of like a bookcase, the letters BLM, and was like, oh, oh, look, Elizabeth Warren, someone's like, no, she doesn't, she's just fucking like, Making you think she cares if she cared as soon as her mic went off. She would have said black lives matter This is what i'm gonna do xyz but people are so fucking placated by this like tiny little black girl Like hi, I see you and it's
jordan_1_06-11-2024_141117:Yeah.
squadcaster-ije8_1_06-11-2024_141117:but we're learning now like we can't even be that's not enough. That's not gonna work as we see the way the police are responding to campus encampments, you know, it's like It's not it's not done just because they say it just because like Kamala Harris gets on the microphone and says like, We see you, seeing it isn't enough, like fucking do something. And that moment will come, where we're like, we're tired of lip service. We're tired of, you know, people who are placated by those words are soon gonna just see that they're words. And Yeah. and that, it's gonna happen. And, you know, as this, like, war machine is being exposed, and, the difference between, what is being told to us and what is actually happening in this, like, industrial military complex that we are, like, living under, and then that's slowly being exposed, that's gonna be a moment, too, and we're moving towards it. And yeah, it's all, it's, it's just weeding out the bullshit.
jordan_1_06-11-2024_141117:Yeah. Yeah. I'm not exactly sure how to like do a smooth transition because there were a couple more things that we said that we, we wanted to chat about a little bit. This is related, but just the like commodification of art that was something that you said had kind of been on your mind recently. Yeah. I, I, I, you want to. Yeah,
squadcaster-ije8_1_06-11-2024_141117:by the, the, like, the way that, like, networks and studios and, like, companies are sort of, like, just influencing art right now, and it it sucks. and it's just, like, they are, their headspace right now is, like, how can we, like, save our profits? And and I think all artists are really taking such a huge beating right now. and it's kind of sad, you know, I mean, we really are at the whim of their sort of like their bottom line. Yeah, it sucks. I don't know what else to say about It
jordan_1_06-11-2024_141117:really sucks. I mean, so what can What can workers do? Is there, I mean, we, in Hollywood we have unions and that's like a really powerful tool that, you know, workers last summer proved that they were able to like hold the line. I mean, IOTC is in negotiations right now. But it's just like, in this climate it just feels so defensive. Is it something that it's just like, Stay away, get out while you can. It's just going to the dogs, or, I mean, can we make, can we make a better world short of, you know, the, the revolution?
squadcaster-ije8_1_06-11-2024_141117:I mean,
jordan_1_06-11-2024_141117:What do we do while we're biting our time?
squadcaster-ije8_1_06-11-2024_141117:keep fighting, you know, I mean, imagine if we gave up and on that, on the writer strike, imagine if we have to be stronger than, than their bottom line. And like, you know, so many, man, like the, if you think about the industry back before the red scare, where they like owned like actors and like, You know, people fought, fought hard and people lost and a lot of people sacrificed. You just gotta, you just gotta keep, you just gotta keep the fucking pen at their necks if you, that's what, you know, you want to use. But like, I mean, the, the, the, the opposite of that is an even worse defeat of AI being used to generate, oh God, you know, to generate content and us Not being able to own our work or, yeah, it's a constant push pull and they know what to, you know, they know
jordan_1_06-11-2024_141117:Mm-Hmm.
squadcaster-ije8_1_06-11-2024_141117:it's going to be a constant push pull. And so as long as we stay in solidarity. So it is really depressing. The outlook on work and create creativity right now is not great.
jordan_1_06-11-2024_141117:Mm-Hmm.
squadcaster-ije8_1_06-11-2024_141117:at the end of the day, we are all trying to entertain and the people want to be entertained have, see art and I would say to be lofty, the human spirit like needs art and and I think at the end of the day, authenticity and art is like, a cool drink of water on a hot day. So. The minute that we become oversaturated with bullshit and like something authentic breaks through, going to pivot, you know? And so just like, Yeah, keep the eye on that prize.
jordan_1_06-11-2024_141117:Yeah, well, it's like what are you gonna do give up?
squadcaster-ije8_1_06-11-2024_141117:going to do? Yeah.
jordan_1_06-11-2024_141117:And then what are you gonna do after that? And then what are you gonna do after that? Like, this is all, keeps, it keeps going. We're still here.
squadcaster-ije8_1_06-11-2024_141117:It's.
jordan_1_06-11-2024_141117:if you're, I don't know. Yeah, it's, it's There's certainly no shame in like, if you have a creative And then what Dream or vision you want to work in some industry, but you find it like not necessarily working out for you And it's easier for you to provide for yourself or for your family by choosing a different route like that's that's obviously not a problem, but
squadcaster-ije8_1_06-11-2024_141117:Yeah.
jordan_1_06-11-2024_141117:That's that's not like giving up either. That's just like choosing a different path to like get yourself what you need I feel like that's what we're all just trying to do here is whether we're trying to meet our like, you know, our our dreams, our creative visions, or just to put food on the table. We're just trying to figure out how to meet our own needs. And if capitalists get in the way of that, then we band together as workers to try to take them down a peg. Leanne, anything else on your mind today?
squadcaster-ije8_1_06-11-2024_141117:No i, I, thank you for the conversation. It was fun and interesting to think about all those things.
jordan_1_06-11-2024_141117:Yeah, thanks, I really enjoyed it too. Have a great day, I'll talk to you later.