Being A Climber in Palestine with Asia Zughaiar

Palestinian climber Asia shares how she fell in love with sport and explains the challenges of accessing outdoor climbing in Palestine. She opens up about how climbing provides an escape from the restrictions and hardships of living under occupation. We discuss how Asia uses her creative skills to shed light on the reality of life in Palestine and to challenge misconceptions. And we get excited about her work on inclusive outdoor fashion.

Asia Zughaiar is a climber, writer, adventure enthusiast, and filmmaker. Asia creates content about climbing and her passion for the outdoors, as well as on the experiences of living in Palestine and witnessing the genocide in Gaza. She explores the experience of climbing in Palestine amidst occupation, and the complexity of how that feels, in honest and open videos on her Instagram page. She also works at a family-owned clothes factory alongside her father in Palestine. Asia is developing her own outdoor brand, which will be the first Palestinian outdoor brand of its kind.

Links

https://eveningsends.com/author/asiazughaier/

https://www.instagram.com/asia.zughaiar/

Donations:
Medical Aid for Palestinians - https://www.map.org.uk
Palestine Solidarity Campaign -donate.palestinecampaign.org 

notyourtypicalclimberpodcast.uk

Follow us on Instagram

About your host:

Mel Reeve is an experienced writer, casual climber and enthusiast, bringing her knowledge and passion to the podcast. With a background in writing, copywriting and content creation, Mel is dedicated to sharing the diverse stories and perspectives that shape the climbing community.

Transcript

Please note, transcripts are AI generated. 

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"Climbing made a drastic change in my life. We have to actually examine what my life looks like in order for you, the audience, to understand what climbing means to me."

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Welcome to the Not Your Typical Climber podcast. Today we are joined by Asia Zughaiar. She is a climber, writer, adventure enthusiast and filmmaker. Asia creates content about climbing and her passion for the outdoors and on the experience of living and climbing in Palestine amidst occupation. She also works at her family owned clothes factory in Palestine and is developing her own outdoor brand which would be the first Palestinian outdoor clothing brand of its kind.

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Welcome to the podcast. Could you introduce yourself and tell us about who you are and what you do? Hello everyone. My name is Asia Zughaiar. I'm 24 years old. I'm a Palestinian climber from Jerusalem. I am a filmmaker, a photography teacher, a writer, a photographer, videographer, content creator, video editor, and I work at my family business. We have a clothes factory in Palestine. I started

climbing back in 2019. It was a friend, invited me over to climb the next day and I had no idea what climbing was. I thought we were going to do something completely different or we were going to do a multi -pitch or something. I've only seen it on movies and you know how that goes. And so I went and I fell totally completely in love with it. So my first time climbing ever was outdoors.

Actually, it really started when I was little. We have this mall called Plaza Mall. And I have like this climbing wall with an auto belay. And I always, always loved going there. was just my favorite. And I was never scared of it. I mean, my sister was always scared all the time. She never made it to the top. I always made it to the top so easily. So I think climbing came really naturally to me. I'm a very outdoorsy person.

What does climbing mean to you? obviously you've said that it's something you're really passionate about and it sounds like you get a lot of joy out of it as well. What does it mean to you to be able to climb? Okay, getting to know climbing made a drastic change in my life. We have to actually examine what my life looks like in order for you, the audience, to understand what climbing means to me. So basically, I live in a town called Kafr 'Aqab and I was born there. I've lived there my whole life.

So Kafr 'Aqab is a part of Jerusalem, though it's closer to Ramallah. In the year 2004, they started constructing the apartheid wall and they started constructing a checkpoint between my town and Jerusalem. And so we, the residents of Kafr 'Aqab kept our Jerusalem IDs. So we did not get Palestinian IDs. These IDs, they allow us to enter Jerusalem and to go into Israeli areas. And

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So my whole life going to school, I went to a private school that was 10 minutes away from my house. But since the checkpoint existed, the 10 minutes they turned into an hour commute every morning because we'd be waiting in line at the checkpoint every single morning. And so all of known my whole life was horrible, horrendous waiting lines at checkpoints. And we always got horrible treatment from soldiers. And

that that was my life in school and then high school. Then when I went to university, I went to an Israeli art school because I studied video art and documentary filmmaking and that kind of thing cannot be found at Palestinian universities. And so I had to go to an Israeli university. And so still I had to cross checkpoints. And so I was I was in university back then when I discovered climbing and it was just

There's a big difference between the freedom you feel when you're climbing to what my daily life actually looks like under the occupation and going through checkpoints all the time. The freedom I felt at the crag was unmatched to be honest. it's the kind of freedom that growing up in Palestine and where I grew up, I never saw hope or like hope of feeling that kind of freedom. I I knew that this is my life and I have to like

come to terms with it and accept it. But then boom, climbing is here. I just felt free. mean, nothing in this universe could match the feeling I had when I first did my first six A+. It was when I led that route, it was just incredible. was amazing. And so all the good feelings that come from climbing are just very, very good for me. I'm sure many people

Climbing is an escape from daily life, but obviously your daily life has extremes that I think most people listening would not have ever experienced. And I know that when you share your content on Instagram, documenting the horrible boredom of having all that waiting and how incredibly draining and frustrating that is in its part of your life every day, I think that really helped me understand.

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just how every minute part of your life is impacted by living under occupation. like you say, that freedom, you know, I'm sure all climbers listening can relate to that feeling, but to be able to access that when you're living in such a restricted situation is obviously even more important. Yes, thank you. You are spot on.

You've obviously shared that and also in your writing, which I'd really recommend anyone listening to check out the essays that you've written, which I think are linked in your Instagram bio about how it feels to find that joy in climbing while you're struggling with the reality of living in an occupied land. How do you on a day to day basis navigate those contrasting extremes of emotion? I take.

Living here first of all feels like you're traveling every single day. The difference in everything, in the way that things work, the difference in cultures when you keep going back and forth between the city of Ramallah and the city of Jerusalem or when I go into Israeli areas. It's insane. I think it's an insane life and any regular person would have a truly hard time living the life that I do live.

I actually like my life here, despite of how hard it is to do anything. I I have to cross these checkpoints to get my mail. Can you imagine that? And so having to get my mail or having to go to the doctor, having to literally do anything, I have to cross these checkpoints. And so I have to stay zen and have to stay centered and focused and have to stay somewhat somewhat okay, especially.

especially with the burden of a genocide going on in Gaza a few kilometers away from us. It's been really horrible to say the least. So I think climbing once a week outdoors balances me and climbing on its own. It's not just about climbing. When I go out every Friday to climb, I'm out there at the crag meeting my friends. We're out there eating together after we're done climbing and we're just socializing and we're a tight knit community.

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And so other than climbing, it's just also about reconnecting with my friends and seeing them every weekend. I think that is very, very important and it helps me somewhat stay okay, I guess. you maybe share a bit more about that community aspect? Do most of your friends climb or is it people that you've met through climbing? What kind of climbing community is there? It's people that I met through climbing. Our climbing community consists of...

like old climbers that have been climbing for five plus years. There are also new climbers. I have a new climbing recruit. used to be my classmate in high school. We reconnected eight years later and I introduced him to climbing. He fell in love with it and ever since he's been climbing every single Friday with me. And so we don't really have the resources that everyone has.

outside of Palestine or like in the US or in Europe. We don't have a lead climbing gym that could teach people how to actually climb. And so we teach people outdoors. We teach each other, each other essentially how to climb. Else is in the community. Like I said, the old ones, the new ones. And sometimes there are what we call climbing trips where people pay money to come and experience climbing. That is also nice. We have a lot of foreigners that are living or working in Palestine

climb every weekend. We also have the foreigners that are visiting on tourism. They're also climbing. And I think every crag day is just like, you're surprised by the people that get there. And there's also the Bedouins. The Bedouins, they live near the crag that we have been climbing at recently. There's a lot of us. What you said there about how you're teaching each other, it speaks to something I think

Most climbers will relate to, know, we're there to teach each other to share the knowledge so that we can all enjoy the sport and being able to share that, support other people in accessing it, must be really rewarding for you as well. very much is, I think. It's just to see it in people's eyes how much there... I mean, you know how climbing is, it's addictive. To see people that got the bug, it's insane. Or just to see someone who just

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their first ever top rope and to see their excitement. mean, that just fills me with so many good feelings. And when it comes to accessing outdoor climbing and the crags that you go to listeners might not be aware, but hopefully it be from some of the conversation we've had already. There's a massive difference in access for Palestinian people and Israeli people when moving around. And obviously that can have an impact on climbing. So do you have any issues with accessing the sport? Yes, we, wow, it's so complicated.

Basically we have so many crags around, or around I think seven, seven crags. And because of the war and everything that is going on, we're limited to one crag only. There's, there's another crag that is mixed. It's called the Ain Fada. It has been turned into an Israeli natural reserve where Palestinians have different kind of access to the crag where we have to hike 40 minutes to get to the crag. The other Israelis, they just get

park their car so close, through the settlement, know, the settlement that we, the Palestinians, cannot go through. So yeah, there is a difference. There's also, in terms of crags, there's also one that has been stolen by the Israelis, a crag in the West Bank that is on Palestinian land. It has been stolen and it has been bolted and they have made a guidebook for it. Right now, we absolutely can't access it because

Israelis and settlers, they go to climb there. And so whenever we go, we'll just get kicked out by the soldiers. And because of the current political situation, it's too risky to actually try and go climb there. It's like, it's opposite of why we climb. mean, we climb in pursuit of peace. We climb in because we're working on our projects. We climb because we like the community and...

having these incidents where you're getting the IDF on your back or you're getting settlers to point their gun at you when all you want to do is climb is just insane. And I've had an incident that is mentioned in the film Resistance Climbing about a settler that pointed his gun at me. He was standing on top of the crag. The really scary part is a few months ago, or I think a year ago.

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a boy was killed by a settler in that same area. So it was a real risk to you? Yes, yes. I think that day what really saved me from getting killed is me knowing how to speak Hebrew, me knowing the laws and me just having the courage to actually stand up for myself. I mean, to be honest, I did seem like a hero in the film and I was standing up to soldiers, but I was shitting my pants in reality. was anxious and I was shaking my

I had a gun pointed at me. What am I supposed to do? Yes, and luckily I survived. I mean, climbing in Palestine essentially can be deadly if you're not careful enough. That is why we're limited to one crag that is the absolute safest crag. But still, we get IDF presence at the crag. Sadly. It is the safest, but we still get the IDF and sectors to show up at the crag and to harass us a little. Climbing is meant to

a place where people can enjoy themselves and find that feeling of freedom that we've talked about and to not even be able to feel safe for your life. And let alone, can imagine how exhausting it is to have to have that constantly in the back of your head when you're trying to concentrate. Having all of those things must be really challenging. mean, every day we are afraid for our lives. We hear a lot of stories about people that literally did nothing and got killed. And so when you add

To climbing, mean climbing is an escape from that horrible feeling or from the horror that is our daily life. So you mentioned the film Resistance Climbing. For people listening who aren't aware of the film, could you maybe tell us a bit more about it and what your role was? So Resistance Climbing, it's Real Rock. Real Rock is like the biggest production company for climbing films all over the world.

They visited Palestine along with Andrew Bisharat who I had no idea before who he was. And then we get this originally Palestinian American guy visit us and get to know us and try to get to know his Palestinian side essentially. And it was so awesome. The whole crew of Real Rock, they were like so nice. They were so supportive. The director's name is Zachary Barr. He's

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the best person ever. All of it was such a great positive experience. from the day that they got to Palestine, I mean, I had the footage of the settler that pointed his gun at me and I told them about it and I sent them the footage and so they ended up taking some of that footage from me. Other than that, I did contribute to the film. The last clip you see in the film of of Uruwa finishing

the first 8A in Palestine that was actually a project that we worked on for months and months. I bought myself a Jumar and taught myself how to Jumar and I was just hanging out up there on the road for months right next to Aruwa and filming his attempt at his project. And so when he finished the project, I mean, I kind of teared up a bit because it was such a big project that we were working on.

And they ended up taking that footage, which I think made a great ending to the film and contributed something that is so nice. Yeah. And that's maybe a good point to ask you about your filmmaking, because you're a very creative person. You do your writing, filmmaking, photography and content creation on Instagram. Could you share a bit about how you got interested in filmmaking? My sister, owned a camera back when I was...

14, 14, 15 years old. And so I started picking up a camera and just taking photographs. I started seeing the magic in photography and the magic in videography. mean, essentially it's freezing something in time and having the privilege to look back at it. I was always fascinated by that concept of time travel. So I think the closest thing to time travel is photography and videography. So I really got into

And I decided that I want to pursue a degree in video art and documentary filmmaking. My dad was under the impression that I was going to go pursue a degree in fashion design because we own a clothes factory in the West Bank. And so the day that I told him that I will not be pursuing a fashion degree to him, had the reaction like I was telling him, Dad, I'm not going to be a doctor anymore. He was so disappointed.

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I think it's such a measure that nobody would think of, I mean, studying or going to. But I took that risk and I loved it. And then my graduation project from university was about essentially a film about climbing. It was a film that I did with this girl called Yasmin Najjar. She had a prosthetic leg and she wore a hijab and, you know, she just climbed outdoors, which was just so fascinating to

And it's continued to this day. And is that film available to watch anywhere? Yeah, I put it up on YouTube. And how did you get inspired to start creating content on Instagram? Because that's how I came across your content and essays as well and videography work. So what made you decide to start sharing your experiences as a climber and a Palestinian person on Instagram? I used to be a very shy person, by the way. I never posted any of my works. I never just put myself out there,

I started, you know, after going to the US and seeing people's interest in Palestine climbers, I mean, seeing the reaction to resistance climbing, all of it was just so overwhelming and incredible. I think it drove me to start content creating because people had so many unanswered questions and I think my content is very unique. A, because it's me and B, because there isn't any other.

Palestinian climbing content creator out there. And I do have the knowledge, I do have a really nice camera, I have nice lenses. So I already have that in my head. I worked as a social media manager for a while. And so I've gained a lot of experience that put me in a place where I'm confident enough to start content creating. And the reaction has been overwhelming. I mean, I get so many great messages from people and they really power me through and I do feel seen.

I'm really glad to hear that you're getting that positive feedback because obviously fundamentally very educational for people who don't know about, you know, what's going on and the experiences that you're having. But it's also the storytelling that you're doing is very powerful. And I guess I wonder, what do you have in your mind when you are creating? What do you hope that people will take away from your content? think a really big issue that we face here in Palestine, and it's one of the issues that made the war happen.

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the genocide actually happened and continue to happen, is the image that people have in their heads about Muslims. I think like everyone thinks that we're a bunch of terrorists because of what Hollywood did to us. I think what Hollywood did is very, very unfair to Muslims. And when they kept portraying us as terrorists or as a bad person,

portraying us as backwards people that live in tents or only ride camels and that we don't have a culture, that we don't work. Essentially, we have a terribly bad image in front of the world. so I think through my content creation, I just really show the raw reality of life in Palestine. And I think that is very, very important. What misconceptions do you think people might have, you know, if someone was maybe not very knowledgeable?

about the real experiences of Palestinian people and Palestinian climates. What misconceptions do you maybe hope to address with your content? People think that all Muslim women, first of all, have to wear hijab. I've worn hijab a lot of times, like to the mosque or sometimes when I went to school, and hijab is something that I really appreciate. But not every single Muslim in the world or in Palestine wears hijab, and we have the freedom not to wear

The Palestinian community is quite accepting of all of that and people keep thinking that no, like everyone has to wear hijab. No, Palestinians are so crazy conservative. I mean, yes, Palestinians are somewhat conservative, but we're not as conservative as everyone thinks that we are. And I do hope to change that image. Also, I want people to know that we, the Palestinians, we're just regular people. just

your average Joe, we like to climb on weekends, we go to work, we have a family, we have friends. And so yes, we do live under the occupation, but we do have a life that we want to live because again, we're just normal, regular people. I do have to mention one thing. So I'm Palestinian, but I'm a resident of Jerusalem. So I have an Israeli ID, but it's not Israeli citizenship. It's the Israeli residency, though I was born in Jerusalem.

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And that residency can be taken away from me anytime the government decides that they want to. By doing the content creation that I do, I do risk a lot. Lots of people like from Jerusalem that work on the Israeli side have lost their jobs because of like simple posts about Gaza or what's going on or the people that are dying. And so it's highly not accepted. And I think if I work, I mean, I basically be blue.

every chance I have at working at any Israeli place because of the content creation that I do. to be honest, that is where the money is. I mean, it's the occupying country. They do have the money and the resources and the better jobs. And so I think I am risking somewhat a few things to do this content creation, but I think it's nothing compared

what my people are experiencing in Gaza. I I'm hoping through my content creation, I can shed light on the true issue that we have at hand, which is the people of Gaza. And a lot of the time I think about them and I think, you know, what would I feel if I was in their place? So it's up to us, the other Palestinians, to keep educating the world and to remind the world that we essentially exist and this genocide has to stop. At the end of the day,

reminds us that we all have a responsibility to speak out about what's happening as much as we can because, you know, I don't live in a situation where that puts me at any real risk and I'm sure that there'll be people listening who believe strongly that what's happening is wrong but maybe feel apprehensive about saying that in situations where they have the opportunity to and I think this is hopefully a good reminder to them and myself as well that we have a responsibility to speak up for what's right.

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So you mentioned working at your family factory and I know that you are also working on an outdoor fashion brand. Could you tell us a bit more about that? Basically, before working at my family factory full -time, was working there part -time and part -time I was working as a social media manager. Suddenly the war struck and nobody wants to advertise on social media anymore. And so I lost my other job. Then my main job became the family factory and we mainly

pajamas, we do local school uniforms. So I started thinking, you know, I'm a climber and I'm always critical of the climbing clothes that I get. Clothes that are expensive from like big name brands because that is where you can find the good stuff. So I'm always critical like this should be like made better, that should change. And I do have a different body type. I am a bit curvy and I don't think all the outdoor clothes that are out there cater to

So I started thinking that maybe there should be a brand that is made by a climber who actually has a family that owns a factory. And you know, the brand will support Palestinian families. mean, our factory supports a a lot, a lot of Palestinian families. mean, one of our workers, the other time I was chatting with him and

started telling me where his kids went to university and where they are working right now, how they are in big places, just because our factory exists and our factory provides jobs for people. And right now I'm seeing that the financial and economical situation in Palestine is big disaster. I think that I want to do something for my community that hopefully would

providing more jobs for people that are jobless because of the war. mean, lots and lots of people lost their jobs because of the war because a lot of the Palestinian people got permits from Israel and would work in Israel because again, that is where the money is. So creating a brand, creating something that would provide more jobs that would help the people is something that I really, really aspire to do.

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You know, I feel truly helpless when it comes to the situation in Gaza. So I'm really hoping that at some point I will start making enough money that I could start donating something so that I can, you know, I feel responsible. That's a great point you've raised there about outdoor clothing brands

having a diversity of body shape in mind in the clothes that they create because I'm also like a slightly larger, curvier person and there are several brands that I simply do not bother to shop with because I know they won't fit me. I think it's really exciting that you've identified that niche that exists also to have such a powerful message behind it as well. I can imagine, I know for myself, I'd be very keen to shop with your brand. What kind of stage are you at with your designs and production and things like that? I have made the first t -shirt. I am...

Yeah, I am working on making the perfect sports bra. Oh, yes, please. It has been driving me nuts. I'm at prototype number three or four right now. I think, wow, I think I'm going to reach 10. I don't think that is something that other brands do. They, like nobody does 10 prototypes. I can tell that from how the sports bras fit. think that they don't put that work in. Yeah, definitely. Also, one of the things that I want to focus on,

Here in the Middle East, so for years and years and years, people lived in the desert and the only thing they've worn is cotton. And so, like when it comes to our weather, you actually need to wear cotton in the hot weather because it holds on to moisture and then you have like clothes that have moisture on them that will actually keep you cool. I think my brand will involve a lot of cotton. Also, I think it's better for the environment. We have, we're experts in cotton.

Again, because we're from the Middle East and that is my area of expertise. So I'm hoping I would introduce start introducing more cotton to the outdoors and to people that are just going on on day climbs. And it's really been a big headache, you know, thinking about, you know, whether my brand should go with cotton or should I go with polyester blends like every other brand? And I'm still working on it, to be fair. I'm not 100 % there,

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I definitely want to focus on cotton. And also it's high quality. thing about our factory, about our quality, everyone tells us you guys have a bit more expensive prices than usual. But the thing is we offer really, really high quality and we buy the expensive fabrics to achieve that and to have people trust us and trust our brand. And I'm hoping that I can...

that would translate into my outdoor brand. So obviously we've talked about how climbing can be such a freeing and wonderful thing and also the very difficult and extreme situation that you live in. So how do you make time for self -care? So at the beginning of the war I didn't really know how to do that. I I just felt guilty while I was simply sitting on my couch watching the news.

I find my balance in my friends and family. I've been really consistent with going out with my friends, seeing them. I've been really consistent with seeing my family, trying to do activities with my family, my little cousins, my aunts, my uncles, seeing my grandparents. It really centers me. I've been really, I've been much, much more appreciative of my friends and family since the war started.

And I've been having this feeling where I wake up every single morning and I would just think the first thought is thank God I'm alive because you know when I go to sleep I see the news before I sleep you know I'm seeing I'm seeing people dying I'm seeing people that are being bombed and in my sleep I'm seeing nightmares I had this recurring nightmare for the longest while of a sniper from the Israeli army that is always trying to snipe

In the main street right next to my house that nightmare kept recurring in my head. So it's been Wow, I might sound fine, but it's been the absolute most horrible experience of my life and so holding on to my loved ones has Been helping me power through it's great to hear that you have that support. But also yeah, so important I think to acknowledge that yeah, you live in

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just absolutely horrendous situation, experiencing things on a daily basis that I'm sure most of us listening couldn't even conceive of. And that feeling of powerlessness that you described at the beginning there, talking about, you know, sitting on your sofa and not knowing what to do, I think is something that a lot of people can relate to even though they're not living in such an extreme situation. So what would you say to anyone who's maybe listened to this and has felt inspired to do more to support the voices and experiences of Palestinian people and to speak out against?

genocide happening in Gaza and maybe even within the climbing community, what can people do to better support the Palestinian people? Okay, first of all, we only got here because people started talking about us, because people started acknowledging us. It's really important that you educate yourselves on Palestine, that you educate the people around you, that you try to seek the truth out

Don't just depend on the big major news media outlets because they all have their own agendas. You should always try to seek out information. think it's really important that you donate to Gaza, that you protest in your home country. Remind people that we exist that you post on social media about the genocide so that, you know, hopefully some person who's somewhere important can actually do something and, you know, decide to change this. Also, donating is very,

I personally know an organization that is called Healing Our Homeland. They operate in Gaza and they buy food from the Gaza Strip and provide they provide food to families that are in need of food. It's important that you share the Palestinian content that you see. In terms of climbing itself, right now we don't want to turn people's heads into donating to us, but the Palestinian Climbing Association has a GoFundMe setup.

because they want to make the first lead climbing gym in Palestine. so they're really working towards doing that. Again, we at the moment highly encourage people to donate to Gaza instead. Yeah, and I'll make sure to put links to those places in the show notes. So if anyone wants to start donating, that they can do that. Is there anything you've got personally coming up projects or I don't know a particular climb that you're working on or something creative that you would recommend to people to keep an eye out for?

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I do have an article that is going to be my first ever print article for Spotter magazine that is based in the UK. Other than that, I do have two documentary projects that I'm working on. I have this experimental documentary project where I put a GoPro inside my car and I film my daily life as I go through checkpoints and I go through what life in Palestine is like. And

It kind of feels like a podcast with a lot of me like talking to the camera or me, you know, arguing with my sisters or just talking to my friends or crossing checkpoints. It's a whole big mix. My other project is I documented our trip to the U .S., you know, Palestinian climbers first time in the U .S. I do have some nice visuals and hopefully

I'm working on it, hopefully it'll come out soon. And my brand is on the table. Well, thank you so much for speaking to me today. It's been really incredible hearing more about the stories that I already knew a little bit about from your Instagram and your writing. But to hear more has been really impactful. And I really hope that everyone that's listened to this has also enjoyed hearing about your climbing and your brand and has also found some education if they needed it about what's happening in Gaza and in Palestine. And if not, maybe

sharing one of your articles or this episode with someone who you think would benefit from hearing about these experiences firsthand.

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You've been listening to the Not Your Typical Climber podcast. I'm your host, . If you've enjoyed the show, please take the time to leave us a review wherever you listen to podcasts. It really helps us out. You can also follow us on Instagram at Not Your Typical Climber and our website is notyourtypicalclimberpodcast .uk. This is an independently recorded and produced podcast.