When you hear Josh Pulsifer's story, it's like watching a tree firmly rooted in rocky soil flourish against the harsh elements. As our guest from Transnation Title, Josh shares an intimate portrait of his ascent from the grips of poverty to the summit of his current aspirations—a narrative that resonates with the kind of resilience and determination we all hope to embody. His life is a testament to the significance of positive influences, from the unwavering support of his grandparents to the steadfastness of his faith, all of which helped him navigate the tumultuous waters of a challenging upbringing in Muskegon, Michigan. As we unpack his journey from a stock boy to a corporate success, we uncover the universal themes of ambition and the critical life choices that pave the road to personal success.
Whether it's through the heartfelt bonds of marriage or the disciplined symphony of balancing work and family, we discuss the profound impact of authenticity in forging strong foundations for ourselves. This conversation is a reminder that the courage to face our past can shape a steadfast platform for achievement and satisfaction in the present and beyond.
We then shift our focus to the essence of human connection—how empathy can be a golden thread sewing us together through shared experiences and how our intrinsic ties to nature can be both grounding and enlightening. Amongst anecdotes of grounding, and plant-based ceremonies, our dialogue turns to the significance of respecting nature and our role within it. We close with an invitation for continuous learning, drawing from eclectic sources like Jia Jiang's "Rejection Proof" and the diverse insights from podcasts such as Joe Rogan's, solidifying the idea that curiosity is the fuel for lifelong learning and success. If you're looking to connect with your community, this is a great reminder of the people around us, and being REAL!
THIS EPISODE IS SPONSORED BY: THE PALMER GROUP real estate team. The Palmer Group is an energetic team within 616 REALTY led by Eldon Palmer with over 20 years of experience helping people navigate the home buying and selling process in West Michigan. To support the channel, contact Eldon@ThePalmer.Group, drop a comment, and like or subscribe to this podcast. You can also learn more at https://thepalmer.group/
HAVE A SUGGESTION? WANT TO BE A GUEST ON THE PODCAST? Reach out to Eldon@ThePalmer.Group or send us a DM.
When you hear Josh Pulsifer's story, it's like watching a tree firmly rooted in rocky soil flourish against the harsh elements. As our guest from Transnation Title, Josh shares an intimate portrait of his ascent from the grips of poverty to the summit of his current aspirations—a narrative that resonates with the kind of resilience and determination we all hope to embody. His life is a testament to the significance of positive influences, from the unwavering support of his grandparents to the steadfastness of his faith, all of which helped him navigate the tumultuous waters of a challenging upbringing in Muskegon, Michigan. As we unpack his journey from a stock boy to a corporate success, we uncover the universal themes of ambition and the critical life choices that pave the road to personal success.
Whether it's through the heartfelt bonds of marriage or the disciplined symphony of balancing work and family, we discuss the profound impact of authenticity in forging strong foundations for ourselves. This conversation is a reminder that the courage to face our past can shape a steadfast platform for achievement and satisfaction in the present and beyond.
We then shift our focus to the essence of human connection—how empathy can be a golden thread sewing us together through shared experiences and how our intrinsic ties to nature can be both grounding and enlightening. Amongst anecdotes of grounding, and plant-based ceremonies, our dialogue turns to the significance of respecting nature and our role within it. We close with an invitation for continuous learning, drawing from eclectic sources like Jia Jiang's "Rejection Proof" and the diverse insights from podcasts such as Joe Rogan's, solidifying the idea that curiosity is the fuel for lifelong learning and success. If you're looking to connect with your community, this is a great reminder of the people around us, and being REAL!
THIS EPISODE IS SPONSORED BY: THE PALMER GROUP real estate team. The Palmer Group is an energetic team within 616 REALTY led by Eldon Palmer with over 20 years of experience helping people navigate the home buying and selling process in West Michigan. To support the channel, contact Eldon@ThePalmer.Group, drop a comment, and like or subscribe to this podcast. You can also learn more at https://thepalmer.group/
HAVE A SUGGESTION? WANT TO BE A GUEST ON THE PODCAST? Reach out to Eldon@ThePalmer.Group or send us a DM.
Hey, welcome back. Today we have Josh Pulsifer with TransNation Title here to talk about starting in poverty and working up to reach your full potential. Josh is one of the most authentic people I know and he's here. He's going to share some of his trips and tricks, some of the things he struggled through, some of the books, some of the people he's going to talk about surrounding yourself with good people. He's going to talk about really being an authentic person, man. There's so much value he's going to bring to this conversation that I can't even really explain it here. So you're going to have to watch. Trust me, he brings massive value here and you're really going to love it. So let's get into it. All right, welcome back. Today we have Josh Pulsifer with TransNation Title. He's going to share a little bit about his story, a little bit of his business journey, life journey and yeah. So why don't we get started?
Speaker 2:Oh, thanks, man. Thanks for having me too. I love doing stuff like this and kind of, if I can, you know, give education to somebody. If they learn something from my story, that's all worth it, man. So yeah so I'm at Transnation Title, I'm an account executive there. I'm going to my fifth year. So time flies, man, it's crazy.
Speaker 1:Must be having fun.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is and it's. You know, I don't feel like it's really a job, because I'm just connecting with people and building relationships. That's kind of my motto. It's funny I had Dr Bruce Lund. I'm not sure if you know who that is, no, we had him come in. He's a national coach and we had him come in a couple days ago to teach our staff things that you need to know. And one big thing that he said is you have your mess, right, you have your mess. Everybody has a story, and just let people know that, because you don't know that person, the crowd that that's going to touch and really change somebody's life. You know, it's happened. I think all of us have a moment to where we can think back, to where somebody said something where we're like man, I would have known that 10 years ago, oh for sure, that's really what this podcast is about.
Speaker 1:A lot of it just teaching the person we were two years ago, 10 years ago, not necessarily having guests that have sold 10 million books. Um, just relatable, you know, real life next door, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it know real life next door. Yeah, yeah, it's real life stuff. And I think the older you get, the more you realize that and the more you take pressure off yourself and just decide it's not all about you and not everybody's looking at you. So that's a once people can get that into their heads. It's like it just makes life so much easier. It really does, absolutely.
Speaker 2:But so for my story, man, so I grew up in muskegon, michigan, um, so not the best. So I grew up in Muskegon Michigan, so not the best neighborhood I grew up in, you know, impoverished area. I attest it to me being able to play basketball now because it was what the thing to do where I was from. But so, yeah, I grew up in Muskegon. It was one choice that you decide young, I feel like in Muskegon you can follow the. You know I was just talking to your staff member about there's two ways really in Muskegon you can go up or down and you can follow the addiction and the drugs which a lot of my, unfortunately friends and family. That's where I grew up. That was my realm, so it didn't bother me. I'm glad I went through it. But I noticed quickly, honestly, through my grandma tabler and my grandpa tabler. They were, uh, he was kind of a pastor for a church at the time when I was young. So that's one thing I think that I'm thankful for that I did.
Speaker 2:I was actually forced to go to church by my grandparents, um, and they, man, they took care of me, they bought all my clothes for school, they bought my shoes, cause my parents could never afford stuff like that. I lived with my cousin for a while, so that was the good thing about it is she forced us into the churches where we had to read the Bible and scripts and stuff like that. And I don't know, there was always just something inside of me that said you know, these things that my friends and my family are doing are wrong and I need to find my way out of that. And you know, I used a lot of it honestly, through just the work of you know I'm a faithful guy just through the teachings of God at a young age and I did fall away from that and later in life and I can kind of get into that a little bit.
Speaker 2:So I did find I feel like God, young enough to know the difference between really right and wrong, and for me it was trying to build those relationships with those people that I trusted more than my own family, you know, outside of my grandparents. So I learned at a young age like you have to put good people in your life in order to surround yourself in that, to get you out of a situation, and I was thankful enough to get out of it. I started at Finish Line very young I was 16 years old as just a stock boy and what's finish line, so finish line's a shoe store in the mall.
Speaker 2:Yep, so, and we were just talking about brick and mortar.
Speaker 2:I don't know how much longer those are going to be around. But so, yeah, I worked at finish line from 16 to 26. So I was there for 10 years and I did the whole retail. I moved all over the not the country just to to Indiana for a little while. I ran a really big store in Indianapolis, indiana Castleton Square Mall.
Speaker 2:But through all of this journey I always was so focused on making money at the time because I did get married pretty young and we had three little boys, you know, at the time, the time okay, and so my life at that moment was and this is kind of where I strayed away from the teachings of what God taught me and what my grandparents taught me on my focus was just money. There's no way in my mind my kids were going to grow up the way I grew up, not knowing what you're going to eat and not knowing if you're going to have enough clothes to bring to school. So I was just so focused on work at finish line. I was training to be a district manager, so my career was going really well for how young I was I was only, I think, 23 or 24 at the time and uh, and then my wife at the.
Speaker 2:She said, hey, I want a divorce. And I'm like, oh. And then it just hit you like a ton of bricks like what did I do wrong? I felt like I was supporting my family. My kids have everything they need. I just wasn't there.
Speaker 2:So that was a big learning experience for me, having my wife leave when I was still in indiana. And at the time you know you're young and you don't realize how important family is. So my family moved back to grand rapids, holland area and when I was still running the store because I just can't leave, yeah, 5.4 million dollar store, it was the third flagship store in our company and I was like, if I leave, I'm taking a huge step back in my career. And so I had to stay for at least a year for my lease on my apartment. But as soon as my lease was up I told my district manager at the time was like, hey, I got to go back home. I was driving every weekend to see my kids, cause obviously I missed them and it was tough, man, that was probably one of the toughest times of my life having to drive that much just to see my kids for a few hours and then have to drive back. So you learn a lot from that when you're in the car. And then that's kind of when I started finding my way back into God's life and just starting to, you know, finding my way back into God's life and just starting to, you know, trying to read the Bible more and stuff like that Came back home.
Speaker 2:And then I worked at Men's Warehouse after that because I got recruited. It was actually one of my clients through Finish Line and in my mind it was still retail, but it was a different kind of retail, from shoes to suits. So thankfully that brought me into a different tier of clientele that I would meet. I met a lot of bankers and insurance guys and a lot of very successful people and it got me thinking like man. I kinda think I fit in that category a little bit better than where I came from. Even so, from there I actually followed my district manager to um, oh shit, after that sorry it was um I went to Chase Bank for a hot second and I just couldn't sit behind a desk. Yeah, I was there for a teller or like a relationship banker there, okay.
Speaker 2:So that's where I learned a little bit about the mortgage industry, because I was licensed. I had to take my series six, my 63 um, so I had to get licensed as I could sell investments and things like that. But at Chase it's kind of weird how the role works. You're not allowed to actually sell, you're just the middleman. You pass it to whoever it has to go. So if you came in for a mortgage, I'd learn about you, figure out how much money you made, start the process.
Speaker 2:I'd hand it to my LO and the investment side. I could talk about investments but I can't sell anything and then I'd pass it to my fa and they would close on it. So it's really weird, um, and honestly, from where I came from, I got not uncomfortable, but I just didn't want to talk to people about money anymore.
Speaker 2:I didn't want to ask how much was in your 401k and stuff like that, and I got kind of depressed a little bit, because I was sitting behind a desk too and I'm a guy that's got to be on the move, I don't like to just sit there. Uh, gained a little weight while I was on that journey and then I went from um Chase Bank to Sheldon Dry Cleaners and because my district manager from men's warehouse recruited me again, okay, and so he was slotted to take over as CEO of the company. So I ran our whole sales division and our driver division and I did that for about two and a half years until a really good buddy of mine, joe McLaren, and he's actually an account executive for Transnation on the lakeshore Okay, so really good buddy of mine and he actually went to school with one of our original owner's daughters and so they made that connection and at the time he was my assistant manager for Sheldon Cleaners and he told me about the opportunity he had and I was like man, as a friend, as a boss, if you don't take this, you're an idiot, dude, you're a moron, right, yeah, and my philosophy in life I've been a manager for a long time and you got to give people grace, and you got to. If somebody's leaving you, let them leave with grace and just really hope the best for that person. That's what I truly believe. And so I told him, as a friend too, cause he was going to start out making way more than he probably would ever make at Sheldon cleaners, to be honest with you, unless he moved up, you know, past me. So then that's how I got into Transnation.
Speaker 2:Title is just through Joe. They were looking for an account executive out this way, and I interviewed for with my boss, mario and becky, and you know that they must have loved my, you know my just realness and my personality, because I got the job a couple weeks later.
Speaker 1:So, and I haven't looked back since, man, it's been great that's awesome, yeah, so one of the key things that kind of stood out there is, like, obviously, relationships. You mentioned that over and over and over.
Speaker 1:Yes, um, through the people and and that clearly led you from you know spot to spot and you sort of you know you might have done been a little parallel, but it seems like you've pretty much worked your way upward, yeah, or at least upward, even if not, you know, financially, in the direction you wanted to go. So what, like, what did you do to kind of learn that and build those relationships? So, like, what kind of led you in that direction?
Speaker 2:yeah. So, man, a big changing point for me, honestly, was this was probably man six or seven. Oh, it's got my. So six years ago I remember my my little guy was a baby at the time and we were going to church at Lake Odessa. My branch manager, landon Mendez, invited me to church one day with him. So I was like, yeah, because we actually didn't find a church that we liked.
Speaker 2:My wife and I, we had a hard time finding what we really wanted out of a church and this church was perfect at the moment for us. So we were going to this church for a few months and then I was to to basically give my testimony in front of people and tell them, really, my struggles in life and how I grew up and you know, I didn't have a dad and the addiction, like there's some crazy stuff and I feel like everybody has a story and everybody has a memory of something that happened to them as a kid. That's traumatic, and mine was. I couldn't have been more than three or four years old and I remember the ice cream man coming down the road and I was eating a strawberry ice cream.
Speaker 2:uh, strawberry shortcake ice cream, they're my favorite still man and I remember my real dad at the time, which I don't know him now that much yeah, he still maybe calls me and my sister like once every like five or six years, but just a weird, weird relationship.
Speaker 2:But he handed me a joint that young, and I remember smoking a joint when I'm that young and like for that to be burned into my memory yeah it's crazy, but for a kid to grow up like that and overcome the things that I have it's I feel like just something was watching over me, but just that's one of the the many stories that I have that. So I'm telling my testimony to church about all these things and after I did it, it was just man. The biggest weight was lifted off my shoulders and I felt like I gained so much confidence in that and I didn't have to feel ashamed anymore yeah because I kind of just let it all out.
Speaker 2:And, man, I think once people are able to do that and not have judgment on anyone for one and not feel judgment cause it's not about me, people aren't going to judge you they're going to look at you and either you know they're like you or not, and that's in business, that's why people work with us.
Speaker 2:And so after I did that, man, that was the biggest moment of my life, to become more confident in who I was.
Speaker 2:And the past is the past, and the more you look to the future and and have strong relationships and that's what life's about, man, and I tell my wife this all the time and when you see us out together. We actually got a really good compliment from two different lenders that were with us and we were out to dinner and she was like you can tell that you guys absolutely love each other and you respect each other. Cause other because the lenders know me really well, obviously for work, events and stuff like that, and now they've got to know my wife just through drinks and dinner and stuff. But they said to us the other night how great our relationship is and I was like you're right, and it's like you really got to find that partner that's with that, with you. And it's like I love showing my video of when I got married and how I proposed to people, because it shows who I am and I'm still that person and that's you know what life's about man. That's why I love doing stuff like this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's awesome, like it sounds like we have some similarities in our background, um, in terms of, you know, growing up in a similar atmosphere. Mine was a little more real or a little more rural, yeah, um, but a lot, of, a lot of similar stuff. A dad that was like a biological father is what I call him, you know that was absent and left early, but the the other thing is that I've had a similar. Hey, that weight's gone when you can kind of give that up and all the guilt and the baggage and just move forward with who you are and not worry about what other people think. Like that, I had the hugest growth spurt in life. So I definitely think that's a takeaway. Um, takeaway from this conversation is being able to get to that point and you're right, I want.
Speaker 2:And then once you open up, people want to open up. That's. It's natural for humans to do that and once they feel comfortable, like, dude, nobody's perfect, nobody grows up with a pitch. I don't know. I actually know one guy that's kind of so, but it's most people have such traumatic experience and nobody thinks that about anybody else, because you see people so put together that you do and like, if you even look at our life now and I will say, yeah, like my wife and I have a very put together life, but we work so hard at it. You know, we actually I joke about it because we do what's called a sunday progress report and that's every sunday we sit down, we go over our values, our goals, we go over like the dinner plan and like how did we connect with each kid this week? So we do that every week because it stays top of mind.
Speaker 2:And the funny part about that was when Dr Bruce was teaching our account executives like what to do on the business world of it, I was like you know, I'm going to take it a step further, dr Bruce because he's he's not married, he doesn't have kids, so he can't.
Speaker 2:I feel like, unless you have that, you can't speak. A coach mentality to me, like it doesn't resonate with me because you don't have that and it's your program works for you because you don't have any obligations to anybody. But for me I was like you guys, this is and I said this in front of my class and I was like this is absolutely great material. But I was like but if you don't have a plan on your personal life that matches your business life, this, this means honestly shit. It's not going to do anything for you. If you don't have your personal stuff intact, you're not going to have the other stuff intact. And so I was explaining to him you got to make sure you're on the same page with your kids and your spouse and try to be and it's hard man, it's not easy, trust me Like, like my. I was telling her my 19 year old son just dropped out of college.
Speaker 2:You know, six weeks left to graduating and oh, man he gave me his, his, not excuses, but his what he was feeling and I I totally like get it and I agree with him and I'm on a plane with him. I'm not, you know, I'm not gonna judge him. I said I'm gonna, you know, be with you whatever you choose, man, but just just knowing that you have that life of your personal stuff feels like it's together, and the more confident I think you are in that, the better the business side of it works too, man, cause, yeah, I'm a firm believer you got to have both sides of it in tax and being in real estate for you. I mean, that's that's part of your life anyway, that's molded together, cause you got to be available, you know, when people aren't, and that's typically after hours, weekends and stuff.
Speaker 1:So yeah, yeah, you have to. I mean that's definitely. You know the intentionality is important and I've not been that intentional but I've been intentional in the sense that, hey, I make all my kids events there when they need need me to be there and I can work around. You know, the kids activities and the family activities that's the priority. You know, showing a house if activities and the family activities, that's a priority.
Speaker 1:You know, showing a house if I have to show an hour or two later, for sure, or hire somebody else to show it in order to make an event. That's always been a priority and that's great. Intentionality is huge. And then it kind of comes back to you know, you have to take care of your own house first before you can help somebody else take care of theirs, um, and then you know, relating it to you, know you got to put your own oxygen mask on first before you can help your kid put theirs on. If you're passed out and unable to, um, take care of yourself, you can't take care of anybody else, true?
Speaker 2:so just, I think that's another valuable takeaway from here and, and the older you get, I feel like you know you live, you live, you live. And I'm not that old. You know I'm going to be 40 this year and uh, but I feel like it's like you really start to see the world differently and the more you realize like it's it is really about connection, connecting with people and building real relationships. It's funny because I did give a little speech for the mmLA this year. I'm the president of the art chapter this year and the Michigan mortgage lender association, and uh, but it's. It's funny Cause I I literally in my speech, I'm like and this is before I heard Dr Lund speak about it, but he's like we really just need to get back to basics and really start treating people like the golden rule, like you want to be treated as cliche, as that sounds and it's true, though that's what I you know it is it's sort of everything boils down to that.
Speaker 1:You know everything in life. I think that's makes it so much easier to make relationships. It's like it's kind of easy, like nothing. It's not easy maybe, but it is simple. Uh, it's, people are attracted to people that are authentic. You know this sort of seems like a trope from the past few years about being authentic, but like you gotta be vulnerable and humble and be genuinely interested in other people, because people's BS detectors are so good these days they are Even if you're trying like you can just smoke that out really easily in somebody and then people like don't want anything to do with that that's true.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I feel like you're right, like the vulnerability I don't know it just kind of went away for a while. Nobody wanted to be vulnerable with each other. I think the more you expose yourself about stuff that's real and honest, the more you're going to realize like you're going to connect better with other people because they're going to feel that certain way about something that happened to you. You know, Right, and I feel like too, in the business sense, you have to have emotional intelligence, man. You have to be able to look at people and read them. See, you know, there's a difference between sympathy and empathy. You know, it's like you either feel really sorry and you kind of feel with them, or you just feel sorry for them.
Speaker 2:There's a big difference between that, man, and I feel like the more you become more empathetic to people, man, just the stronger bonds and the relationships you're going to build with people, you know, because then you're going to be that person that they feel comfortable with sharing if they're going to think about something bad. Or, you know, it's really about how you can help other people, man. It's really about how you can help other people, man, and just be a mentor Coming from a mentee. I believe everybody needs a mentor in their life, somebody that's a little bit older than them. Mine's a guy named Bruce Bush, which I was just telling you about. He's a good mentor of mine. He just taught me a lot of life lessons and he's in his 70s and I feel like you've got to have somebody like that in your life to to hopefully learn from.
Speaker 1:That way you can pass this stuff down to somebody you know it's because it's real stuff you know they've lived. I think the more experienced you are, the the more you'll realize. And actually, the more successful you are, the more you realize how unsuccessful you are, the more you need to know it's um, it's pretty humbling. It is like I and I'm like I have a certain level of success but I need a coach or something to take me to that next level from a business standpoint, especially in particularly right now. And so that's been something that I've had, the same conversation with several people and there's to some extent a lack of that or difficulty finding that. I think you know they say that you know you're the average maybe of the five people you hang around most, and I don't know if that was Jim Rohn or somebody else, but it doesn't matter. I've also heard some other things where, hey, I've been a mentor the past few years, really enjoyed it.
Speaker 1:So you kind of got a hand I don't know if it's jocko or somebody else, you know you got to generally have a hand down. This might have been a military thing. You got a hand down and then you got, you know, your arms around the people that kind of at your level, and then you got a hand up mom for somebody you know to help you. So you kind of gotta both. It's both you got to help you know. I think gary vaynerchuk kind of calls it little clouds and dirt in a sense, and maybe in a different, different frame, but I think that's really important.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is, and it's important to to tell that person too, like, hey man, I I so appreciate what you do for me and your help. Like I tell the guy I love him, I love you and Jamie, like you guys are things. And one thing that is kind of full circle, because with Joe McLaren and the Meyer Lakeshore guy, he came up and he's told me numerous times like hey man, like I would not be where I am today if I didn't learn the life lessons that I learned from you back when we worked at men's warehouse together, you know, and it was things that I taught him about just customers. Like hey, be yourself, be original. Like don't put up if something doesn't look on a guy, tell him the truth about it. Like you have to be honest and you have to have ethics.
Speaker 2:So I, you know, kind of taught him what I learned from my sales journey and and to this day he, you know, and it sometimes he makes me emotional when he comes at me and I'm like dude, thank you, because you know it is good to know that what I'm teaching him is working and and I still am trying to coach. He's nine years younger than me and he's just now having kids and this kind of stuff. So I'm still hopefully molding and working his life into like just to be a better man, person, father, you know which he's great already so, but it's just cool to know that the things that I'm learning obviously are getting passed down to a younger generation that hopefully will keep trickling down and that's you know. That's what it's about, man, and, like I said that people are going to think it's cliche, but it's not. Once you understand that part of it, it really isn't. It's really a different mindset, you know. Yeah 100.
Speaker 1:I'd kind of want to dig into a little bit of that sympathy versus empathy thing, because empathy, as you know, as I see it, how you explained it, empathy in my experience is more of a taking on someone else's burden, like sharing in that burden, where the sympathy is just, like you said, feeling bad for somebody. You sort of move on. It's an external thing and I think people really sense the connection when you're truly empathetic and you generally looking for ways to help, um, even if it's just a kind word or a smile that's exactly it, man, and you hit it on the dot like you're the empathy for a person, you're sharing that emotion with them.
Speaker 2:You truly understand what they're going through because you can think of a situation that's happened to you, that's similar to them. That's going to put you in that mind frame and I think people can feel that I'm such a big proponent. Everything's connected, man like, but whether it's mother earth or like every human, like we need trees and mushrooms and plants, and like we're all in.
Speaker 2:It's kind of corny, but like I think it's great what I believe, like I take my shoes off every day and I go on the grass, my wife and I, when we go hiking I'm not kidding we literally just touch a tree and just feel that connection, because I feel like that's what we are, man we're all just pieces of this planet that are trying to co-exist together and you know, I I can't remember who it was, but I heard a story where it said you, you know, god said that man can basically have the earth.
Speaker 2:but we took that wrong. We took it as we're going to do whatever we want with this earth, whether it's farming or whatever, but not realizing we have to take care of it too and kind of work with it and not against it. And I think that's just another level of you know, things that I want to experience in life, like I want to try ayahuasca, bro. I want to go do an ayahuasca tour.
Speaker 1:I know what you mean. There's a part of me that definitely wants to figure out that in the right setting.
Speaker 2:Yep In the right setting. Yeah, my brother-in-law is a doctor and he did it a couple of years ago and he said it changed his life and I think and I think I've heard that over and over from people now I've heard that there are some bad stories, people that tried to do it on their own.
Speaker 1:Yep, they're not in the right setting nope um.
Speaker 2:So for this one it's in peru and you have to. You have to go 30 days completely clean eating, completely clean everything, no drugs, no alcohol. You go there, you're with a shaman. They do the whole journey with you. You're not allowed to drink or anything like. So it's very like real. And, yeah, he had a great experience. His wife, though, didn't, so she doesn't want to do it again because it brought back too much trauma from her past, because that's essentially what it does, and right.
Speaker 2:So I think there's something there, because obviously, the way I grew up, I have a lot of childhood trauma that I I'm not saying that I haven't dealt with it because I have sure. I just want to see if there's something more than than that, because I think there is kind of the same thing.
Speaker 1:You know, I feel like I've overcome a lot of that, put a lot of in my past, but you know, you don't really know if there's something still bubbling and I don't even know if it has to do with that of just something like one more loose end they got to snip, you know, like prune in the vine, like maybe there's something else that needs to be, it's true, dressed.
Speaker 2:Uh, so, yeah, interesting I know it is, it is. But back to the sympathy, empathy thing, like that's a growth, though that's a growing experience that you just have to realize on yourself and you you'll notice a change in yourself once you do make that flip from. I feel sorry for these people. It's funny I say that because a lot of people would say tribal communities, they feel sorry for them because they live in. I was like no man. These people are in my mind, they're living. What do they all have in common? Community family. They all have some certain trade, like a gift that they give to their people, and they all walk and so it's huge man. There's something to that definitely something.
Speaker 1:I think we've gotten a long way away from that. In many cases we forget. You know, another lender friend, um, made a joke about, hey, having a party getting people together so we can all look at each other's phone at our phones, watch everybody look at their, their phones. Yeah, and um, it consumes people. It does. Yeah, I do miss that time because as a kid, you know, especially growing up in a, in a poor situation, like your friends in the neighborhood, uh, or even your book or your boxes or whatever, like you were definitely way closer to nature for sure doing stuff outside.
Speaker 1:That's all I did. You didn't have anything else. And to have that feeling again like I do miss some of that, me too. Even the hard times were like you don't.
Speaker 2:You don't miss the hard parts so much, but you remember the good you're right, good experiences, right, yeah, because at one point in my life we lived in a trailer park and, um, we, literally every single street road had a basketball team that we'd go play at the park. We'd have hockey leagues, we'd go play baseball, like we did almost every sport just in this tiny little, oh yeah, square patch that we had to call a yard that we all shared, you know, man I, yeah, the great memories like our football field was a yard about the size of this room.
Speaker 1:You know, yeah, the all-time quarterback, four downs to get there, four downs. Yeah, you got a cricket basketball. Yeah, hoop up there that you have battled on.
Speaker 2:You know I was my first dunk at that park, it's because it was bent down a little nice, yeah, that's funny man. Yeah, sounds like we grew up.
Speaker 1:We grew up pretty similar man yeah, good stuff, though, like I think that all forms us and I think from people listening too, um, I think this probably relates to a lot of other people. We're not the only people that had challenging upbringings, and even if you you had a, you know, silver spoon or a middle class, upper middle income, you still went through stuff like everybody has their stuff, everybody has their baggage, yep, and so it's like it doesn't matter and that's really. I want to be able to share some of the stuff with people and allow them to connect, if they haven't already, with you know similar stories.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I like it, man. That's why, when you ask me like yeah, man, I would love it, I'd love to do stuff like this and just open up and just people know who you are, and then you know, you get friends out of it, you get really deep relationships, you get business, it's, it's a full circle thing man so so maybe let's pivot real quick into you know, is there are there any good books or podcasts yet you'd recommend you listen to lately or you give them so one of my big books that I liked was I think it was by Jia Jing um rejection proof.
Speaker 2:Um, john C Maxwell is a great author too. I like. Anything about him is great. But Jia Jing man, rejection proof was awesome. It's this. Uh, he was a um I can't remember what country he came from, but I think he was an exchange student and he man his story of rejection. He was so afraid of rejection that he finally decided to tell himself. And he man his story of rejection. He was so afraid of rejection that he finally decided to tell himself all right, I'm just going to ask for crazy things to crazy people to feel the rejection, to kind of get used to it. And he blogged about it. He blogged every story and he became very, very lucrative author and because of it and man that that you got to read that book.
Speaker 1:I'll have to get that info from you. Um, or listen again. I've never heard of that one at all.
Speaker 2:That's an interesting one. What about you?
Speaker 1:It is something I share a lot, though, like it's something I teach in my mentees, and just love to share with people is, um, that whole fear setting. You know, talking to the person. You know I had an Amway business back in the day. I'm right out of college and I learned so much just from being able to go out of my comfort zone and talk to people, show the plant some stranger. Um, you know I didn't stick around that business a lot, but that's one of the biggest lessons I learned is getting out of your comfort zone to talk to people. Face that rejection because there's plenty of plenty of that yep, there is for sure.
Speaker 2:And, and his big thing was and I think this is another book the anxiety you get is that's you growing, yeah, as a person.
Speaker 2:So I teach a lot of CE classes too for my job now and I still get nervous, really nervous, but I'm like I use that nervous energy, take a breath and use it into my presentation and I now I kind really nervous, but I'm like I use that nervous energy, take a breath and use it into my presentation and I now I kind of crave that feeling because it's like almost like a natural high of this is this is me talking in front of 30, 50, 40 agents, you know, and lenders, and you know they're all professional and you got to be up and you got to be on and but what I really found out was the more you're yourself, then the easier it is. Like the last presentation I gave, I was up until about three in the morning Cause I accidentally deleted some of my PowerPoint slides and I had to redo them and, uh, I was in my presentation. I noticed that I had the same slide up there like three times and I click on it and I'm like well, I'm like let me tell you what happened.
Speaker 2:Then I told them like hey, I was doing it, and then I saved it and it didn't save. And then I saw this whole story. But I was being real on stage and I got so many compliments after that class just to how great the class was, and I don't even think it was a survey class like learning boundaries and surveys, like what is that? You know?
Speaker 1:People remember that story, though, and that connects people, I think, uh, it doesn't matter what you say.
Speaker 2:In a sense it's you know how you say it or how it comes, how they connect with it.
Speaker 1:That's true man. It's cool, though cool great. I'll have to check that book out for sure. Yeah, um, is there an audiobook version?
Speaker 2:I only do audio almost all only do audio anymore too much. I just usually throw a book on, uh, podcasts, um, I do like I do like to listen to some of joe rogan's episodes just because, man, it's one of the only podcasts really where you have both sides on all the time to see different, different points of views and different things, and I love the fact that he questions them really good questions and I love the doctors on there because they get into detail yeah and I've learned so much about health from his podcast, you guys, that you don't know about until you actually do your own research on it.
Speaker 2:So I would say that, too, I make my own bread and stuff now. We just basically try to stay as healthy as we can on that side, just because it's pumped into our food.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, it's amazing. I love Rogan's stuff too for the same reason, so I never cared that much. I always thought it was all ufc me too and comedy type stuff. But he's actually maybe he's just grown or brought that over the years. But yeah, tons of great guests and yeah, something we follow.
Speaker 2:I follow huber, not huberman now because of it yeah, um, my wife actually went to jordan peterson too the other night too, which she loved, that, um. But yeah, that, that those are the kind of things that I try to put in my mind, because for me they're not. There's really nothing negative, it's you're just learning information after and that's so, so useful.
Speaker 1:You know, I think you know there's two more things that I'd say would be takeaways here too is one, uh, self-improvement, self-education, continuing to do that, um, and then curiosity sort of kind of goes along with that. Yeah, you know, most of the successful people I know, um, whether financially or just in any part of life, are curious people very curious, and that's what I love, because he is.
Speaker 2:I feel like he is genuinely curious, and so am I. Yeah, I would love to do what he does, just to get all these professions and all these fields in here, and I was like this is some cool stuff, man.
Speaker 1:Like ancient apocalypse, like oh man, I love that, yeah, oh my gosh dude.
Speaker 2:That was like what? That was wild. I was like you guys gotta watch this, everybody's gotta watch that show. It's amazing. Yeah, I loved it just opens up your mind a lot more stuff, you know, which is great because, like you said, growing up I didn't even have a cell phone until 17 yeah so it's like we didn't know what was going on outside something so, but I'm. I'm 10 years older yeah, so it makes sense. Yeah, oh man, the old t9s having to text through a t9.
Speaker 1:We had bag phones back in the day. Yeah, I didn't even have a bag phone I. We didn't have money till, yeah, no, my first flip phone in college when I moved to los angeles. So, oh, that's after college. Sorry, my first job, crazy man. Yeah, but yeah, all good stuff. Um, yeah, I guess if you were talking to somebody coming, just coming into like the professional world, maybe getting out of college, uh, you've already shared a lot, but what would you? You know what? What's kind of the biggest piece of advice?
Speaker 2:yeah, man, honestly it's. You got to be able to articulate yourself to somebody because you, realistically, you're, it's funny, because john speaking of amway, john crow you have to be able to sell yourself to people. You do, and I think the best way of doing that is to be yourself and genuine, don't because the. That's why I didn't write a script today. I was like I don't want to write a script because it's not what I'm feeling at the moment. Whatever the wherever the conversation takes us, that's where it's going to take us, and I think the more people realize that, cause I used to interview people coming into finish line or coming into men's warehouse and man you could really tell.
Speaker 2:The first question I would just say is hey, tell me about yourself, like tell me about yourself.
Speaker 2:And if they didn't have an answer for that, like that just tells you that they're not emotionally ready for a job, really, yeah, and I would say that for so, for kids, for that coming out of college and trying to get in the workforce, like the more that you are asked questions, you're not afraid to approach anybody and use your elders, use your people in your company, use your peers, like ask them the questions that you don't know, like that's one thing that I learned, even in title, is like, yeah, it is such a complicated world, I don't know everything, but I got a bunch of experts that know a lot you know, which is great to have in your back pocket. That's what you need to realize. And I was at a young commercial event and there's a bunch of young agents there that are very successful and that was their number one thing they said yeah, I would ask my broker all these questions, and the guys that did that felt like they succeeded and the guys that didn't kind of just fell behind I've noticed that too.
Speaker 1:You know, ask more questions, people get farther along faster. Yep yep.
Speaker 2:So ask for help when needed, make mistakes. Another great book is failing forward. Man, man, you have to fail forward. You have to fail in life. That's how you learn, that's how you pick yourself up. And there was actually a doctor on Rogan too, about therapy for kids. She was like, unless there's a traumatic experience that they're dealing with at the moment, like she doesn't believe that an 18 year old should be going to a therapist because he has a little anxiety. That's part of life.
Speaker 2:That's that that's a learning experience, because she said, when you have moments of severe anxiety, that's going to burn a memory and you're going to mold yourself around that. Hence the fact that I remember that when I was a young boy, like that anxiety that you felt there is a good thing because then you treat you how to become a better person in a sense if that makes sense like what would be a life with no anxiety because you are taking a pill and I know some people do need it I'm not taking that away from anybody, because some people really do need some assistance and but like the true root of it is like I want to feel all my emotions. I've never been a person to take like all these medications and drugs and stuff. It just wasn't part of what. Like even when I hurt my knee and stuff, I like I didn't want to take the opioids and all that stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And, like I, try to stay as natural as I can. But it's because of all of that, you know, you got to stay strong in your mind and feel the hurt and feel the pain. It's part of life. That's what it is. You know, right, nothing's perfect.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think we've gotten away from some of that too, just truly experiencing those and then learning from that. I do see a value in whether it's therapy or counseling or having somebody that works as maybe a mentor or teaching you some of those skills to deal with it yourself and not relying on that. But I definitely think there's some value in having somebody, and I do agree with that 100%.
Speaker 2:The point I think she was trying to make was is that talking about something negative over and over and over again to somebody isn't making that better. You got to find ways to, like, get past those. And those are the types of therapists and stuff that are great, that's awesome, which those are the good ones. And she was talking about a lot of the ones that just keep it up, keep bringing it up and then it's.
Speaker 1:It's every time you think about it that's traumatic oh, yeah, you become the victim, yeah, oh, and constantly it becomes part of your identity and then you think about yeah, yeah, so yeah, I mean it's, that's a whole nother, that's a whole nother. Podcast man about all that kind of stuff too. It is well, this has been great. Anything else you want to share?
Speaker 2:man. Yeah, I feel like we've had a good session here, man packed a lot in. Yeah, I know I feel like I could talk all day, but yeah, yeah, nutrient dense.
Speaker 1:Well, maybe another time yeah, for sure, we have to hopefully get some listeners and, uh, we'll do it again yeah, so you sell title insurance or I mean essentially yep, and so you work with uh agents and brokerages and you help educate people on that. Yes, sir, and so how like from that sense, how can people reach you?
Speaker 2:Oh man, everybody has my cell phone number. You can look it up on our website, but it's 616-410-0515. Um, I'm a texter, so I like texting, but I do like to call and just get it, you know, to have a quick conversation, but that's how people can get ahold of me. Um, but my, my main office is right downtown, but I go everywhere. I cover all the way from Kalamazoo to New Agos, so anywhere in that area.
Speaker 1:Great Well, appreciate you coming on and looking forward to the next time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man, thanks for having me, yeah, thanks.