Surviving Saginaw: Gangs, Guns & Grace - The SANTIAGO ESTRADA story

In this episode, we sit down with "Santi", Santiago Estrada, who shares his incredible journey from growing up amidst gang violence in Saginaw to finding redemption through the Marine Corps and a profound spiritual awakening. Santiago's story is a testament to the power of resilience, transformation, and faith. Join us as he recounts his engaging story including his challenging upbringing, the pivotal moments that led him to a better path, and his current mission to help others through his ministry, Healing Humanity.

Takeaway Lessons

1. Resilience in Adversity: Santiago's journey illustrates the importance of resilience when faced with life's toughest challenges. Despite numerous obstacles, he continually found ways to push forward and improve his circumstances.

2. The Power of Redemption: Santiago's story emphasizes that redemption is possible for everyone. His transformation from a gang member to a dedicated community servant shows that change is achievable with the right mindset and support.

3. Impact of Faith: Santiago's spiritual awakening played a crucial role in his recovery and ongoing mission. His deep faith provided him with the strength and direction needed to overcome his past and help others.

4. Support Systems Matter: Whether it was the structure provided by the Marine Corps or the love and guidance from his ministry, having a supportive environment was vital for Santiago’s turnaround. This highlights the importance of community and support systems in personal development.

5. Giving Back: Santiago's dedication to helping others through his ministry, Healing Humanity, demonstrates the significance of giving back. By sharing his experiences and providing support to those in need, he continues to create positive change in his community.

THIS EPISODE IS SPONSORED BY: THE PALMER GROUP Real Estate Team

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:01

and so I'm like dad, I can't do this, I don't know what, blah, blah, blah. And so they call him again and this time they let me go all the way there by myself and I go inside the party's bigger now it's outside, it's in the garage and stuff, and I gotta go through all these gangbangers. Yeah, I'm scared, I don't know what to. I don't have my wingman with me, and so I go inside and I'm like, hey, I'm looking for so-and-so. And I go up here and I tell this guy, well, his name's. I said, hey, can I talk to you inside real quick? And he says, yeah. He's like, yeah, homie, come on. And so we go inside and I said you're not going to believe me, everybody's arrested.

Speaker 2: 0:55

I need those guns back. Hey, welcome back. We are here today with Santiago Estrada and we're going to hear a little bit about his story. Growing up in Saginaw Not the most ideal living conditions, but he has some good things to share about crawling out of I don't even know what you want to call it, but overcoming obstacles let's just say that, absolutely.

Speaker 1: 1:17

So go ahead. Well, thank you for helping me and taking the time to listen to my story again, my story. I come from Saginaw, I'm born and raised, born in 1975. And there's so many different levels and variations of not variations, but what do you call it in algebra when X equals and it's a variable?

Speaker 2: 1:46

No, that's not what I'm looking for, uh yeah, anyhow.

Speaker 1: 1:49

Um, there's so many different ways that my story goes uh with equations details so if you can help me from keeping me going down a rabbit hole, or at least pull me back, I'd appreciate it sure all right, born in 1975 in Saginaw.

Speaker 1: 2:07

A couple of things that are interesting about that time frame is the civil rights movement had kind of just ended, but race and race topics were still very hot. Communities were still divided, neighborhoods were divided and at that time, at that same time, general Motors, which employed most of Saginaw through the auto industry General Motors between 77 and 82, laid off half of its workforce, included in with that. Vietnam had just ended in in essentially, I believe, 73, but a lot of the guys were back with five. You know they'd only been back about five years. They weren't highly skilled, they weren't very educated, um, and when they came back they just didn't have much to go to or to do employment wise. So a lot of people went into the foundry work. It paid very well but it was hard, nasty, dirty work. Anyway, my father got into the foundry there and uh, what time was this?

Speaker 2: 3:24

So was this around the 75, or was this a little later?

Speaker 1: 3:27

Yeah, no, this was before that. My father got out of NAMM in 69 and I believe he got after two years, so it had been like 71 that he got into the foundry. Okay, um, but what happened then? You know, general Motors paid everybody a lot of money and gave great benefits, but then they shut down after years and years of supporting these houses and these communities that were just outside of you know, not, uh, not the educated um labor force or career uh experience there. And when GM shut down, essentially in 82 and got rid of uh, they went from 7,800 employees down to 3,200 in the in those years, and so I would say 60% of our neighborhood.

Speaker 1: 4:30

The working fathers lost their jobs. Some people moved away and found other work, but a lot of people turned to crime. A lot of people were going to jail. There was a lot of, you know, robberies and things like that occurring and when a lot of these fathers disappeared into jail or whatever the case was, the kids turned to gangs. That's where the gang started to form on the streets and get more serious.

Speaker 1: 4:59

So, with that kind of laying the foundation there of the neighborhood type that I was living in, where most of the fathers weren't able to find that same amount of money. So quality of life depreciated, people stopped taking care of their houses and their cars because they were choosing to put food on the table instead of a new roof or windows, and you could see the neighborhood and it quickly went and it just quickly depreciated, I guess. Well, my parents didn't want me to go to school in my neighborhood, so they had actually bused me out or driven me to school to Catholic schools that were out of the neighborhood, me out or driven me to school to Catholic schools that were out of the neighborhood. And coming from my neighborhood and going to the Catholic or the private school where you know the kids that came from money or had more assets to their lives, to their families, I feel like I stuck out like a sore thumb.

Speaker 1: 6:02

Sure, a little different environment, yeah, different culture, and I didn't fit in. I wasn't into sports and I had never really, I was never taught how to meet people or how to have friends or be friends. So I got beat up a lot. Yeah, I mean I got. I got beat up a lot and well, what I say is beat up, even if it's like pushed down. Uh, I remember one time, as in like the fifth grade, fourth grade and uh, some kids unzipped my backpack and took all my books and threw them up in the air into the wind and all my papers and everything, and then they pushed me down and kicked me a couple times and laughed and took off. So it was.

Speaker 1: 6:45

This is at private school this was at private school yeah, this is at catholic school, um, so, but it was things like that that happened, probably, I don't know like nine or ten times. And to make matters worse, like sometimes I'd have to walk home from the Catholic school, home and I had to wear the uniform of blue pants, white shirt, black shoes, and so when I walked by the public schools, I was a target and kids in my neighborhood looked at me like I was weird and I got bullied a lot. My neighborhood, uh, from my uniform, um, pushed down. Just you know, kids can be cruel, kids can be cruel, kids can be cruel. Yes, it was that element.

Speaker 1: 7:31

After a while I said I had enough and I talked my parents into letting me go to another school and during that orientation time I met a kid and I didn't know it at the time, but he was heavily involved in gang activity and I was struggling. I was a C minus to a D plus average student. I didn't, I didn't fit in. I didn't get into school very well with other students or the administration, or the administration. My parents actually took me to counseling when I was, I think, in like the eighth grade, and all the counselor could come up with was that I have no respect for authority, but I also come from this generation where we couldn't talk about sex, drugs, alcohol, dating, friendship, religion, money, careers, jobs. You couldn't ask parents any of this. I was awkward time. Yeah, you couldn't say any of this. That was awkward time. Yeah, you couldn't say, hey, dad, what did you, what do you do at work? Oh, no, you know, they didn't want to tell you how much money you make. They ain't telling you how much money you know. So I didn't get to know anything. So I was really stupid or ignorant. I was ignorant growing up. I just didn't know.

Speaker 1: 8:43

Uh, and a lot of the kids that were in my neighborhood, they had no idea because their parents, kind of, were along that same path. It was that generation, because our neighborhood is very cultural. There was whites, blacks, latinos, a couple Asians, but it's very diverse, but still none of us knew anything very diverse, um, but still none of us knew anything. Um. So that that was a big struggle going through life mixed, not knowing anything, going to a catholic school but not living catholicism in the house and getting beat up at the catholic school. Yeah, had me just going bonkers, I didn't know what to do um, and I had gone to my father and asked him if he would teach me to fight or at least defend myself, and he said no. One day a neighbor taught me to box. I seen a neighbor boxing in his garage.

Speaker 2: 9:32

That was a thing back then too. It was like, hey, learn to box. I mean, Rocky was kind of coming out, and so that was like people taught you to karate, kid. Maybe that was just sort of a thing.

Speaker 1: 9:47

And so Richard taught me how to, how to uh hit the bag, work out and take a hit, and that was probably the best gift he had ever given me. Um was was punching me um, because it started to take the scare away. It started to okay, I don't have to be scared in this moment, um. So, for better or worse, my dad said no, uh, to helping me um, defend myself. Yeah, um, and richard said he would if my dad said yes. I said my dad said yes, and uh, he. So he said he gave me a few lessons, um, which didn't really help. They helped me enough to to lose the fear, um, but there was several times that, you know, I still got into confrontations. I was like, oh, but it didn't, it didn't go as good as it should have yeah, well, I don't think they ever really do really for either party, right I?

Speaker 1: 10:39

mean, I was in a couple places as a kid and just there's no winners, exactly there's no winners. But all right, so, yep, that's the neighborhood, that's my family. Now I'm in the school, um, in a public school, and who would become my best friend at the time? Uh, for what that is? Uh, in those contexts, I brought me into the gang life and that was the life that I was looking for, because it was amazing not to get beat up. It was really amazing to have somebody confident confront you and then have like 15 people that are, like, willing to support you. It's like, wow, this is amazing. I was going places. I was no longer afraid to go, um, we, we rolled really deep. Um, I was only an affiliate of the gangs, uh, I don't want to mention my friend's name, um, but uh, he, he had gotten beaten to the gangs and he was starting to live the street life, dropped out of high school, and so real, real quick.

Speaker 2: 11:47

Yeah, what do you? What do you mean by getting beaten to the gangs? Not everybody, I don't think, is going to understand. Okay, yeah, depth of that.

Speaker 1: 11:53

Essentially he had to hang out with, with the group, with the gang, for a while, a couple months, and kind of prove himself as being notorious couple months and kind of prove himself as being notorious, um, a menace to society, and kind of had to prove what he was willing and not willing to do. And then he asked if he could join the gang. He asked the leader at a party one night and the guy says, uh, he talked, he waited a little bit, a couple days and got back to him. He says, says yeah, absolutely, we'll have a party next Friday. Remember, we're 16 years old.

Speaker 1: 12:30

He's going to have a party next Friday, and so at the party afterwards is when they would do it, and what they did was they were partying at the house and the leader said, hey, let's go outside. And my friend knew what that meant too, and so he walked outside with like 15 uh, other kids and he had to stand up, um, and he could defend himself if he could, or do whatever he could anyways, three minutes, and they just pounded the life out of them for three minutes and and then went back to, you know, drinking beers. But now he's into the gang, um, which to me, the scary part about that was to be fully initiated. If called upon, you have to do what you're told to do, and in those days I can't. I'm not sure if that was 92 or 93, but in 1992 there were 148 teenage gangbangers killed in saginaw. Wow, that's a lot of kids at a very young age, um that's crazy.

Speaker 2: 13:40

I can't even imagine that.

Speaker 1: 13:42

Yep, it was ridiculous. Our house got shot up, our cars got shot up, there was a drive-by at my parents' house, my mom and dad's house, one time or two times. Now, what are people doing when?

Speaker 2: 13:58

they're doing that. What do you mean? Why are they just going by and shooting? I have no idea, just randomly. What do you mean, like, why are they just going by and shooting?

Speaker 1: 14:04

I have no idea, just randomly. Most likely to all I can think of to me was, uh, my friend that I was hanging out with that was now in the gang. Um, I was associated with him, sure, um, and he, he, he, he loved to fight and his dad was in prison, but he's Puerto Rican and he just loved the fight of well, he would even say it the Puerto Rican fight. And anyway, yeah, he got me. I almost want to say he saved me. He saved me from, he saved me from wanting to be dead, he saved me from exhaustion of getting beat up. I had nobody else to help me out and uh, so, and I think it goes like that for probably 90 of kids that join gangs, is that? I think it goes like that for probably 90% of kids that join gangs is that I'm so tired of getting beaten with no place to turn. To my school. The Catholic school was against me, the priests were against me because I was a rebellious kid, I wasn't a lot of trouble.

Speaker 1: 15:18

I, I, my father was an angry man from nom. He dropped out of high school to go to vietnam with fake papers, wow. And so he went in at 17, uh, the end of his 11th grade year. But he went into nam, did two tours in vietnam. Um, most people do one tour, but he ended up doing two because the boat that he was headed back, headed to hawaii on, got hit and went, started to go under. So they had to go back to vietnam to port or else they would have sank. And so he ended up going back to nam and did another tour as an Amtrak or so, and those guys when they came back we all know that you know America gave them a hard time. They didn't really accept the Vietnam. You know they were called all kinds of names. But so he came back as a young man and that was his experience of life was trying to escape Saginaw to go to war. Yeah, that's how bad Saginaw was for him.

Speaker 1: 16:29

He was dropping out of high school to go to a war voluntarily where there was a 90% chance that he would have gotten killed. He was an Amtrak-er, essentially basic infantry. So he brought that anger home and into the house and he liked to party. He had a lot of brothers and they all lived close. So they hunt fish, played ball and partied and I think that's why they didn't like us to ask questions is because they didn't have answers to most of life's questions. They worked to live, to go back to work and repeat the cycle. But I guess the, the, the, the, I didn't get into it. So, as far as gang activity goes, I didn't get into a lot of activity. Uh, I was only in the gang season for, like I don't know, probably like three years. Yeah, um, but the highlight of it was, and that this is like the, the, the bigger story here.

Speaker 2: 17:35

Um.

Speaker 1: 17:42

I believe it was 1990, the end of 92, and my friend that I was, that was a gangbanger. Um, he was like in a lot of trouble. He was in and I was still going to school but he dropped out and so he was in and out of jail. So our friendship kind of started to part ways because he was getting into more violent crimes that I didn't want to be a part of. I had plans I was going to join the Marine Corps after high school. That was my forecasting was survive Saginaw by getting out of Saginaw. The only way I'm going to get out of Saginaw is through the Marines. My school record was not good. My grades were not good. Nobody had talked to me about college. I didn't know about careers. I didn't know anything about different trades or anything really.

Speaker 1: 18:35

I told my dad I wanted to get into the plant, into the foundry work because unfortunately GM was still paying, you know, $25 an hour for very basic labor. But he said, no, there's no way I'll let you into the plant. So he's like, yeah, maybe the Marine Corps. And so I joined the Marine Corps. I joined open contract. I didn't even know what it meant. I thought everybody in the marines just carried a big gun and and essentially at the basic level you do. But I didn't know about other jobs, still sure, because I didn't know about them in the real world, let alone the marine corps world, the military world. And so the recruiter was sitting there and I said, no, let me just sign the document. I got things to do and my mom and dad were like, no, hear him out, hear him out. Anyway, I joined open contract, they could do whatever they wanted with me. I just gave them six years of my life. Hey, do what you want, just get me out of here.

Speaker 1: 19:33

But I still had like nine months to go. I'm still in school, still still gangbanging, um, not as much trying to, trying to trying to not catch a felony so that I can go still going to the marines, right, anyway. One day I'm sitting at home and I'm on the phone attached to the wall and another friend of mine that's not affiliated with these, none of the gang or anything like that at all he comes squealing into the driveway and comes running into the house. He's like bro, bro, we got to go, you got to get out of here. I just drove by so-and-so and so-and-so's house on the way here and he's like Sheriff's's department, swat team, gang task force. It's lit up, it looks like a circus and I'm like what I was like. All right, I don't know what it's about, but I can think of many things at the time that it could have been sure that that I was there for that had involved me. Um, anyway, we go for a drive.

Speaker 1: 20:40

We drive for probably six hours just driving around saginaw and going away burn time just trying to burn time and and hanging out and doing, not doing good stuff but you know smoking, smoking, drinking.

Speaker 1: 20:55

Anyway, we get to another friend of mine's house that lives about five blocks away and this guy comes out and he says dude, you got to call home. Your mom's called here twice and my mom's never called any of my friends. So he's like your mom's called here twice, she's looking for you. So I get on the phone with my mom and she says she says get the F home. I could tell just by her emotion she was sad, she was crying, she was exhausted, and my mom didn't swear back then but she swore and she dropped the F bomb and says get home, click.

Speaker 1: 21:35

And so now I'm like oh, I have a better idea of what this could be about, yeah, and so I said all right, but what had happened was a couple of days no Earlier that morning, like really early. I wasn't there for this before my friend came to the house when I was on the phone. Um, the gang friends that that was an arms dealer, and an abundance of of high-powered weapons were stolen, like a legal arms dealer or an illegal?

Speaker 1: 22:28

no, he was legal, he was a. They were a good family. Sure, um, they were. They were a good family and they lived in a nicer part of town. I don't know. I still don't know to this day, because our friendship was terminated that day yeah, yeah, but uh, well, all relations were because of what happened.

Speaker 1: 22:45

So, anyway, uh, earlier that day they broke into a house. Some people broke into a house. I'm still not exactly sure who did what they broke. Somebody broke into the house, another friend and my, my boy that got uh into the gangs. They came into the driveway or I'm thinking it was about noon before. Um, I wish I could just say names, that would have been easier yeah, you know, gotta protect people.

Speaker 2: 23:14

I guess you know. Maybe not, but at this point better be safe, sure.

Speaker 1: 23:20

So anyway, these other two guys come to the house and they're like, hey, can you give this guy a ride, because we got some stuff here that he's got to take care of. Because of the level of the activity that my friend was into from drive-bys to armed robberies, assault with a deadly weapon, all kinds of violent crimes and he was trying for that, he was trying to get his name put out there in the street, his street credit, and he got it.

Speaker 1: 23:53

So before I said anything I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, come on, that's fine. And then I looked in the back seat and seen a tarp. I was like, oh man, I'm thinking, I was actually thinking dead body. Oh man, don't really be a dead body. I pull the tarp back and it's a bunch of long barrels. Um, there was a couple pist, several pistols, but mainly like shotguns. I believe there was a lot of deer hunting rifles, I think there was an AK, and then a lot of pistols, and apparently they had gotten a hold of these and helped themselves to them. And so my friend now wants me to give him a ride around town and help him unload these, because that's what he had been doing. He was an arms, semi-arms dealer, drug dealer he would sell anything.

Speaker 2: 24:45

Yeah exactly.

Speaker 1: 24:47

So we drive around, there's pay phones at this time, so we're driving around pay phone to pay phone every. Probably probably he probably made like four calls um at different areas. I think he was just trying to find and I don't know why. I was just so naive at this time. I didn't care. He's like, all right, let's just drive up here. I still don't know who he's talking to, what they're saying, what's happening. He says, all right, we're gonna go to so and so another guy's house and I'm not really sure how to get there. So he takes me and so we're on the south end of faginaw, which is like man, the police don't go there. Sure. Like if this would have happened over there we would have been fine, yeah because, the cops don't go there.

Speaker 1: 25:34

Uh, so we get to this, this guy's house, and he's what, he's one of the leaders of the gang, he's a high. I have to go around the block and tell my dad, hey, you gotta call the attorney, he can't follow me. He's like if I take this cop there, they're gonna come and they're gonna kill you guys, not just me. I was like I'm sorry, I mean, I I got foolishly and really deep where I didn't belong, but I was enjoying it because it was the protection and the authority. Anyway. So my dad calls, they call, they call off the unmarked.

Speaker 1: 26:06

I try and do it again. I get up the road, halfway down almost to the bridge, and I'm like, ah, there's that car. They didn't trail me for a while, they got too close, too fast. Anyway, I went back home, home, and yep, it was them again, it was the detectives. And so I'm like, dad, I can't do this, I don't know what, blah, blah, blah. And so they call him again and this time they let me go all the way there by myself and I go inside the party's bigger now, it's outside, it's in the garage and stuff, and I gotta go through all these gangbangers and they're all smoking pot and drinking, which is not, you know, it was normal behavior.

Speaker 1: 26:48

But I'm like now I'm super sober, yeah, I'm scared, I don't know what to do. I don't have my wingman with me, and so I go inside. I'm like, hey, I'm looking for so-and-so. And I go up here and I tell this guy well, his name's. I said hey, I said can I talk to you inside real quick? And he says yeah, you know. He's like, yeah, homie, come on. And so we go inside and I said you're not gonna believe, everybody's arrested. I need those guns back. And he's like what he's got his arm around.

Speaker 1: 27:28

He's bigger than me, he's like three times my size he's got his arm around me and he's like what'd you say, homie? He said, go ahead again. And uh, now we're in the kitchen. We were walking at the time. Now we're in the kitchen with his mom, who's just as crazy, I heard I was told that she's even crazier than he is and she's like oh, hey, miho, how are you? And I was like I don't know, we'll find out. I thought that she had heard me tell him. I thought I was like I'm just waiting for it right in the back of the head. And uh, but no, and I tell him again like this is what's up, dude, I'm supposed to leave for the marine corps in a little bit because I got tailed here twice.

Speaker 1: 28:09

I make sure that there's no 50 on us. They don't know who you are. I haven't said anybody's name. Thank you, dad. Yeah, it's me on the names day. Yeah, and yes, says I don't know. It was so weird. He's like I got you, man, come on and we go outside. He's like, hey, hey, listen up, listen up. And he says, hey, my man, he needs to talk to those people that so-and-so did business with earlier. And so, like six guys get up and then we all go inside. We all go inside. Now I have to repeat the story.

Speaker 2: 28:49

Oh yeah, it's so crazy. I just I can't even imagine being in your shoes.

Speaker 1: 28:55

Man. But I'm trying to still play hard, you know, I'm still, I'm still trying to act like a king. But uh, I'm like man, I'm just anyway. And they're like, they look at him like are you crazy? And he's like, yeah, I was like ah. But anyway, he says, uh, he says the only thing I can't do is tell him how much. I'm like all right. And so I'm like, how much do you want? And it was like three times the price that they had gotten or that they had paid for. And they wanted like two thousand dollars in ammunition. And so I'm like, let me take the, let me take some notes. How much did you get? How much did you get? Oh man, I just don't want to be me.

Speaker 1: 29:40

Yeah, I don't want I was like how come I didn't get arrested, lord, so I have to go home now. And uh, because I wasn't going to go over there with money, I didn't want to get killed and robbed. So now I go back home and I talked to my dad and I said they, uh, they want this much. And uh, he didn't hesitate, he went upstairs and he had some money stashed away for a hard time, um, and he had 200 less than I needed. And so I go back over there and the party's even bigger now. But I mean everybody's smoking pot. So they're all kind of mellow, yeah, I mean they're pretty chill. Yeah, like, hey, what's up? Homie, like oh, you don't want to know. So I go back inside I find vick and I'm like hey, man, I got the money, I'm 200 short.

Speaker 1: 30:32

And the detective said and these are his words that if you think that we're gonna allow you to have two thousand dollars of ammunition, then you're stupid. I said, I know I'm stupid. I said, but that's what the detective said. He's like all right, man, we'll see what's up. He's like no worries, man, he's like all right, you guys bring that iron over here. And so they come in like all these guns, probably like 15 guns, 15, 20 guns on the table and, uh, all the shotguns had been, you know, cut, uh, the the barrels and the stocks were cut, everything was sawed off, all the serial numbers were dead, um, all the, everything had been and not even done. It was, yeah, it wasn't even a clean job and most of them had already been fired. You could just smell it. I think it's called cordite or something like that. You can smell it.

Speaker 2: 31:24

I was like man.

Speaker 1: 31:27

So now I'm like all right, I can't carry all these by myself, can somebody help me out? And so a couple guys helped me carry the, the guns to the car and, uh, I drove away. And as I drove away, uh, I tried to play it cool still, but right now I'm. So I'm carrying, um, you know, 20 stolen firearms that I aided in selling. And because it, uh, because of the amount, because of the weapons, because they were sold to the streets and gangs and because it's a felony involving a firearm, the detective said I was looking at third aid of life man.

Speaker 1: 32:10

And yeah, I'm 17 years old, looking at third aid of life for something that I shouldn't have been wrapped up in. But I was weak and I broke under peer pressure. But as I get a couple blocks away from the hit from Vic's house, probably about a half a mile a marked unit pulls me over, quick, quick hits me. My windows are all tinted, and so I'm assuming that's why I got pulled over. But I was just thinking, you know, he's going to see these guns and smell that cordite and I'm dead here too. So, anyway, I pulled over and he was back there for a couple minutes and then he drove off, uh. So, uh, I don't know if he got another call or what.

Speaker 2: 32:53

Yeah, he went off and I told him what was up like if they were.

Speaker 1: 32:56

Yeah, um, and I had warrants out for for my arrest. Uh. So, yeah, it was a bad situation. But I went back home, gave my father what I had. Uh, we didn't get them all off the street, we got most of them. Uh, the police came picked them up a couple of weeks later. Uh, we ended up in court and everybody else was coming through in orange. I walked through in civvies because I had an attorney nobody else had legal representation.

Speaker 1: 33:25

My girlfriend gets on stand and the judge is like, hey, how you doing so? So what's going on? You know he's trying to like break the ice. He's like what's going on? And she's like, well, we broke into the. He's like whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Have you ever heard of self-incrimination? He's like where's your attorney? I don't have one. Like, well, get one and we're gonna reconvene. So I get to go out again. My recruiter was there. And my recruiter ends up calling lansing's uh recruit uh, I can't remember the command center there and says, hey, this is what's going on. Mr Estrada is supposed to leave for the Marine Corps, but we got warrants and he's got an attorney. And can we speed this up to see what's going on? And the judge says, yes, I need you out of here, like the next bus out. You will be on it or you're going to jail. I said out, you will be on it or you're going to jail. I said, yeah, I can do that. I'm on the next bus out, but it still didn't.

Speaker 1: 34:21

The next cycle. I still had to wait for the next cycle of boot camp, but I got in the next cycle, went through boot camp, everybody else is in jail and everything. I go through boot camp, go through Marine combat training, and then I end up in Okinawa, japan, and for some reason, by the grace of God, I end up at the command center the command building, I guess it would be. It's like where the president flies into and I was working with all these generals. I was an 18-year-old nobody. I didn't know which direction I was going, I didn't know what I was doing.

Speaker 1: 34:56

I had all this brass around me, all these generals. I was a 18 year old, nobody did. I didn't know which direction I was going, I didn't know what I was doing. I had all this brass around me, all these officers, and one day I get a actually um, a letter in the mail from my mom and she says hey, you have a warrant for your arrest in saginaw for those felonies. And so I tell my officer major oaks. I said, major oaks, I'm in trouble. This is what happened. And he goes.

Speaker 1: 35:18

He says, just a minute, let me go see talk to Brigadier General, I want to say Smith, but it wasn't something close. And he's gone for about two hours and he comes back and he says Estrada, don't worry about it, All your charges are dropped. He said we told them that you're doing an outstanding job in the Marines, and he lied because I'd only been there like a week.

Speaker 2: 35:40

I'm like, well, at least I've done good this week, right?

Speaker 1: 35:43

And he says I told him, you know this is what's going on. Or the general called the judge. They had a long conversation and they said, yeah, if you want them, come get them, but it's on your dime. And so, yeah, they're joking, get them, but it's on your dime. And so, yeah, there's joking. And saginaw was like we dropped all charges and they sent me a letter that says you know that I'm free and clear of these charges. Wow, that's amazing. Yeah, so, uh, I mean that that that was it. Uh, that was that was the. The big thing. Um, what ended up? Uh, going on further down the road, I, I got on, the Marine Corps went back to Saginaw. What wasn't doing very well, got caught up back in the same street life, no gangs, Cause everybody who's older.

Speaker 1: 36:24

Now they're not claiming anything, but it was the same activities you know the same party hard inner city, hardcore life, A lot of fighting, a lot of things that you shouldn't be doing. But it was a long cycle to get where I'm at. I had many careers. I was homeless three times. I ended up being homeless in Sarasota. I was homeless back in Saginaw for a minute. I was homeless here in Grand Rapids for a little bit.

Speaker 1: 36:57

I guess I'm always taking the hard life, but through all those periods of homelessness, I still always had the vision of being something better and I was like I didn't go through all that, I didn't live all that way to do nothing. There's something better for me, there's something better of me. And I didn't know what to do, but I kept going to college. I didn't know what to go to college for, so I just kept going and I got an associate's and a bachelor's and a master's degree, but I still wasn't sure about employment or anything. I still didn't have the brights to look into that for myself. But I had several careers.

Speaker 1: 37:41

While I was in the marines, I got injured while I was out of the marines. Uh, I've been injured several times and my injuries caught up with me over time and in 2018, uh, I stepped away from the workforce to try and take care of my body and my mind. Right before then, probably like in 2017, I began a journey of salvation and but through the salvation with jesus, I started to face all of my victims, my uh, my guilt, my sins, my crimes, the people that I hurt. I started to feel all their pain, and so it led me down a rabbit hole of depression and suicide.

Speaker 1: 38:27

In 2018, I had attempted to take my life and it was very unsuccessful, and what happened was I was in a wheelchair and I tried to hang myself and I tried to roll back but, um, yeah, the hook a broom hook that I had put the rope on pulled the pulled off the wall and, uh, I got bumped around a little bit, but I heard this voice. I don't know if it was real or if it was like me or my brain, but it said Santiago, it's not your time, it's gonna be okay.

Speaker 2: 39:05

I was like was that a lawnmower? Was that a?

Speaker 1: 39:08

plane, a helicopter, because I'm in my shed okay, it's a very small place I would want to do in seclusion and uh but it's like I could feel a wind with that voice and it felt so comforting, different, unreal. I didn't know what was happening, but I felt forgiven. I felt like it's not all my fault. Yeah, for the first time probably, I felt like it wasn't all my fault. Even the pain, the wheelchair, um being broken physically and mentally, uh did a number on my divorce, on my divorce all right wife did a number on my 18 year marriage, um, but I put them through the ringer because I was angry.

Speaker 1: 39:56

I still like to fight and I was raising my children, I was trying training them to be tough and I told them a lot of my stories, but I was always mean, I was always angry, and one day I was told that it's me, the anger's me, but the anger's not me. I need to let it go. And that was several years ago. That was like in 2018. And that's when my life really changed and I got baptized. I accepted the spirit. I couldn't get enough of the bible, enough of jesus.

Speaker 1: 40:31

Um, everything in my life had to be about love and happiness and trying to help other people that were experiencing the same pain say, hey, this is real, is real. I didn't think it was real. I, you know, I thought it was, you know, but I was raised Catholic kind of. But, um, I never really felt it, never believed in it, and since then I haven't been able to get enough of it. Uh, still today, I, I, my, my love for the Lord is so strong.

Speaker 1: 41:01

I know I slip up, but I feel that it's like my calling to help other people, to help other people understand people in poverty and homeless or people that are abused or without fathers. I'm really drawn to the city life, even though I don't like to live in the city, but you know, the kids are hurting hurting themselves, hurting other people, our urban youth, the gangs, things like that. But in 2020, we started that ministry called Healing Humanity and we go out and we serve and that's still something I don't know what it is, but we started to do screen printed t-shirts and go out there and bring peace to those that need it and those that want it what's that look like on a day-to-day like you go down, just start talking people, give them a, give them a chance to talk, or give them a voice, bring them things.

Speaker 2: 42:00

So what's that look like?

Speaker 1: 42:02

when I go yes, it's, uh, handing out coffee and cocoa. Everybody likes you know a treat to come into. But talking to people with a sober ear to say, hey, my name is, it's nice to meet you, yeah, I mean just that alone. Many people on the streets haven't heard in years like a real hey, it's nice to meet you, some people start crying like right, then yeah. Some people say why would you say that? Why would you say it's nice to meet me? You don't know anything about me, you know they're so broken.

Speaker 2: 42:38

Right.

Speaker 1: 42:40

So it's just such a pleasure to go out there and work with people that need help, want help. They don't all want help and I get it, you know. Um, yeah, but the ministry was for people all over. You know, we're all broken, we're all. It's not just for people in poverty. The the real idea of the ministry was crossing cultural dividers within our Christ communities. We even have churches that don't talk to other people because they go to other churches. It's like I don't get it. Yeah, crazy, I don't get it. We're Christian, we should be, but we're not Christian. You know, we serve everybody, we don't just serve Christians, but that's what it's for.

Speaker 1: 43:21

I have friends that now, where are we 30 years later? I started to connect with some of these kids that I was gangbanging with, and one of them's my best friend from the time. Wow, and he did many years in prison. We still haven't really talked about it. We do prayers and stuff hey, how's life, how's you know? How's this going? How's that going? Uh? And another friend of mine lives around here down, uh in wyoming, michigan, and he's really big into uh in urban ministry. Um, some people have told me it slightly resembles gangs. I'm like no, they're just dressed like that. They're not gangbanging. Listen to the lyrics that they're rapping. But I love it because they have the look. They look like misfits. None of us fit in good to this group.

Speaker 2: 44:13

Take a bit of culture. At the same time, you can talk to people. Yes, yes, you guys have stories that are just don't Not anybody can relate to that you guys have stories that are just don't not.

Speaker 1: 44:25

Anybody can relate to that. Yeah, yeah and uh. So it was madness. Uh, I went from the hood to the hills and by the grace only by the grace of god I'm not dead and doing well in life to have had that push. The marines saved me 100% across the board.

Speaker 1: 44:43

But the Marines gave me that, even if I don't want, I started my associates. I can't not finish it. Sure, that's against my heart now, yeah. And then I was like I don't want to do my bachelor's, but I'm going to take a class, because once I take a class I'm in it. I have to finish this. That was one thing my dad gave me, his organization and, because you know he's growing, he essentially grew up in the marines and, uh, they teach you how to do everything make a bed, brush your teeth, shave. They teach you stuff that that you don't learn other places, while they do teach you to kill too, you know. But it gave it gave me a trajectory for my anger, for what I wanted to fight people, and they told you how to get rid of the anger might be 100 push-ups followed by 200 sit-ups, and then we wrestle and we're exhausted oh sure you still get the frustration out.

Speaker 1: 45:38

You still get the, the um. They teach you how to use it a little bit.

Speaker 2: 45:43

So you went from kind of a misfit kid, which is a lot of, didn't really have a, you had a family, but like a lot of families, they're not complete necessarily, right, I don't even I don't know how the the best way to say that. But you know, the gang sort of became a different type of family for you and then you went to the military so that was a new sort of family. Yeah, now your christ family. Now you kind of come back around meeting some of those same guys that kind of had a similar journey in different ways. They took their own routes, yeah, whether it's prison. But it's kind of interesting that that all came back around and that you have relationships to some extent with some of those yes and I'm kind of curious what, what you want to do next?

Speaker 2: 46:25

or like, hey, if you know, looking back, looking five, ten years from now, yeah, like what's a successful story gonna look like for you?

Speaker 1: 46:35

well, it's funny because, with the master's degree and going through most of my time in social service type of work helping working with the poor, the homeless I ended up going back to work and right now I'm mopping floors and I'm sweeping up, I'm doing janitorial work because I needed income.

Speaker 1: 46:54

My wife told me she's like you got to have income right now, and so I thought the ministry would have had faster than that, but yeah, so I went back to work at what I could get and it pays pretty good for what I'm doing, um, but it's funny because I'm like I'm a janitor with a master's degree, uh, the veteran status, no criminal record, um, thank you, jesus. Uh, so it's. It's a weird world that I'm living in now, but I'm really enjoying it. It's the first time I've never been behind a desk, essentially on a computer, all day trying to make other people happy, and I'm enjoying the work. But what I really like it is it gives me a lot of isolation, time where I'm like by myself, throw on a headset or something and meditate. Most of my day I'm able to spend in prayer and meditation.

Speaker 1: 47:45

However, where's my five-year plan, part of my therapy or my recovery? Let me tell you like this, a friend of mine. I showed him the book that I wrote about my life, with more details and stuff, and he wanted to meet me out for coffee one morning, and it was a couple weeks. Wanted to meet me out for coffee one morning, and it was a couple weeks ago. We go for coffee and he's looking at me very serious. He says Santiago, I think you need therapy.

Speaker 1: 48:16

He's like I'm serious, I read this and you should. You you're struggling, I see what's going on in your life. So I said all right, man, but for years the last couple years since my salvation I've been writing funny things down that I remember in my story. So I truly want to put myself on stage places to share my story through a more comedic, uh journey. But just there's so many just funny things that have happened in my life. Um, and I think our world needs like a lot more laughter. Yeah, you know, we're not. We're not a happy people anymore, and we should be, because we've only made life hard on ourselves.

Speaker 2: 48:56

Um, you know it's interesting. You say that because that's a. You know, there's a pattern that's come up in my life this week and I had a, had a negotiation and a friend of mine had said hey, just tell the guy you're breaking his balls. You know like he's breaking your balls and I'm like you know he's like I'll give you 50 bucks. And then I started thinking about it. I, I'm like I know this guy.

Speaker 1: 49:23

He's a friend too.

Speaker 2: 49:26

The guy that I'm negotiating with. Essentially it's a tougher conversation with a friend, and so I'm like you know what? I did that? And I put a smiley face next to it and I'm thinking you know what? That was actually good advice because it breaks the tension. It's like it's just a conversation among friends, um, who mutually respect each other.

Speaker 2: 49:52

And and then the same time, another friend messaged me because I shared this story and he's like, yeah, I just read this week and he was like, really focusing on it, that people who have and I don't remember the exact quote but that can hear comedy and can understand comedy, can really change. They just have so much more potential. I guess you will, and I think I'm missing something. But I had said you know, comedy like physical activity, just like doing your 200 pushups or whatever you're doing, it can change your state of mind and it can really open you up to a different thought process. Because during my tough conversation, all in my own head, I'm letting emotions kind of come in here and trying to handle it practically and I'm writing out this email and it all came down to just changing my state. Yeah, a little bit of comedy. So I think comedy can really reach people in a way that, being serious, can't do.

Speaker 1: 50:49

Well, I would love to take my set of I don't know pieces of my life that I found funny that I can laugh about, and deliver them to people that are. You know, I would love to start and like, um and I think I'm going to start in like guiding light, ministries, shelters, uh, giving it away for free for a little bit to practice my skill. Sure, um, but plus, they're like nobody goes and gives them really good free shows or presentations or good feelings in those locations. So, uh, I think you know I'm, I'm pretty familiar with them. I've been homeless a couple of times. I was on the street myself. I know that.

Speaker 1: 51:31

You know that life is really hard and scary, no matter how tough you are, that's a scary life, yeah, being homeless, um cause weird things happen in the middle of the night that this has no idea, right oh?

Speaker 2: 51:44

man. Oh, I don't care to find out, but I I have super respect for people that do.

Speaker 1: 51:50

Yeah, and you know, you see some of these shows where people just live on the street voluntarily for a night or two and it's like, man I, I thought about it and I was going to probably, uh, like recent, probably like six months ago, I was going to spend a night on the streets of Grand Rapids and consider checking out a shelter and my wife said no, yeah, you know, sometimes they save us.

Speaker 2: 52:16

Right, yeah, they save us from ourselves every now and then.

Speaker 1: 52:19

Yeah, but uh, I mean it's fascinating. I see ourselves every now and then. Yeah, but uh, I mean it's fascinating. I see I work with I've worked with the homeless for so long. Um man, there's such crazy mental health. We don't have mental health institutions anymore. We don't have these places that'll take care of these people and need help. A lot of people think they're oh, he's on drugs or he's drunk. No, he ate a lot of lead paint growing up. Yeah, like seriously, and since the eighth grade this guy's been talking to walls. So it's that really bad broken. I've seen people on the streets right now downtown Grand Rapids and they really don't know if they're coming or going. Yeah, and I talked to their friends about them and they say that guy doesn't do any drugs, or he wouldn't know how to drink it if you gave it to him.

Speaker 1: 53:10

Wow, um, just because the mental health is so bad, the distractions, the fear, the fear of schizophrenia and stuff. So but that's what I want to.

Speaker 2: 53:19

I want to go out there and give good love that you know here to hear what I have to say I guess, well, maybe you know, maybe part of this, you know, conversation is somebody you know we can ask somebody for help with that. Maybe somebody will reach out and you can connect and move that forward.

Speaker 1: 53:39

Yes, that would be great, because that wrapping into the ministry then becomes, uh, essentially the whole ministry, um, with the story and jokes, but also really giving love and doing it through christ and not saying, oh, me and my church, or you know, things like that it's like no, just come out um, you know, jesus said we're two or more gathered there, he is in the presence of God, and so you go out on the street with a friend and you have nothing to worry about.

Speaker 1: 54:07

You still got to be careful, but it's very, very rewarding.

Speaker 2: 54:12

Well, I'm looking forward to hearing more of the next chapter and maybe we'll meet again in five years and have that conversation, but I'm sure it'll be before that.

Speaker 1: 54:22

Yeah, yeah yeah, it'll be before that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you'll be in the audience when, uh, right, yeah, yeah, I'm looking forward to hearing your set, so we'll have to get that invite.

Speaker 2: 54:28

Well, thanks for coming. Yes, good having you. Thanks for joining us. Please like, share and subscribe if you've enjoyed this podcast.