S1 - EP6 - Hormones and Health: Understanding the Female Body and Menopause with Dr Louise Newson

"Did you know that hormone changes don’t just affect women’s bodies—they impact emotions, relationships, and overall health in ways many people don’t fully understand?"

In this episode of Chatty-AF, Rosie Gill-Moss speaks with Dr. Louise Newson, an ward-winning doctor, educator, and author and member of the UK Government’s Menopause Taskforce , to demystify hormones and their impact on health. Whether you're a woman experiencing these changes or a partner wanting to understand more, this episode covers everything from the science behind hormone shifts to practical advice on managing menopause symptoms.

What you’ll learn:

• How hormone levels affect physical and emotional health.
• Common myths and truths about menopause.
• Practical tips for managing symptoms like hot flashes, mood swings, and more.

Guest Info:
Dr. Louise Newson is a GP, menopause specialist, and founder of the Newson Health Menopause Clinic. She is also the author of The Definitive Guide to the Perimenopause and Menopause. Learn more about her work on her website.

Timestamps:

• 02:15 – Hormones and the female body: An overview
• 12:45 – Understanding menopause: Facts vs. fiction
• 25:30 – How men can support their partners during menopause
• 38:00 – Practical strategies for symptom management

Listen now to gain valuable insights whether you’re navigating these changes yourself or supporting a loved one.


Resources/Links
Newson Health
Dr. Louise Newson - Live UK Theatre Tour - Ticket Information
Dr. Louise Newson - Menopause Masterclass

Connect with the show
Web : https://www.chatty-af.com/
Instagram : @chatty_af_podcast and @rosie_gill_moss

Don't miss the next show
Subscribe on YouTube
Follow us on Apple Podcast
Follow us on Spotify

Disclaimers: The content of this podcast is for informational purposes only. The experiences and opinions expressed by the guest are personal and should not be taken as general advice. Listeners are encouraged to seek professional support for similar issues. The producers and host are not responsible for any actions taken based on the information provided in this episode.

Transcript

Rosie Gill-Moss: 0:02

Hello and welcome back to Extraordinary People. I'm your host, I'm Rosie Gill-Moss, and it is my pleasure to have you with me. Today's episode is about menopause, or perimenopause, something which many, many of my age will be experiencing, as will the people that they live with, because this is an intergenerational issue. It affects everybody and anybody that we, that we come into contact with. Um, and I just I had so many questions. I'm under the care of Louise's clinic. Um, I pay for it. This is not an advert. And it is no understatement to say she has, or the clinic has changed my life. So, I was really, really excited to speak to you. You can probably hear in my voice I'm a little bit nervous throughout some of the interview. Um, and I did, I did. Uh, points interject with some ramblings, but you know, you guys have come to connect, expect nothing less, right? So in a moment, you're going to hear my conversation with Louise and I, I hope, I hope that you get something from it. I certainly did. I learned quite a lot. And we also talked about the fact that she lost her dad when she was nine. So it was one of those lovely conversations that I had, you know, this very prescriptive list of what I was going to ask her. It all went off. But it was really, really fascinating and I hope that you get something from it too. I'll speak to you soon. Hello, and welcome back. You're here with me, Rosie Gill-Moss. I'm your host and joining me today. I have got quite a special guest. Um, those of you who know me know that menopause is or perimenopause is one of my favorite things to talk about because it's something I'm immersed in at the moment. And through my sort of journey to get some support, I was introduced to Newsome Health. Now, Louise Newson, who is my guest today, is a menopause specialist. She's the founder of Newson Health, member of the government task force on menopause. This is a long list of things, Louise. Um, an author and you are also a mom as well, which I think is really relevant here, because one of the things I want to talk to you about is how menopause impacts your relationship with your children. So quite the intro, but as I say, we are sort of in the, in the presence of greatness today. And anybody who has been, who is going through, excuse me, perimenopause, and I guess for men as well out there, because so many of you are about to be affected by this. And I just think it's amazing that we get the opportunity to talk to, talk to you and kind of ask any questions that might be floating around in my head. So welcome to the podcast, Louise, and thank you for joining me.

Louise Newson: 2:23

Thanks for inviting me and thanks for such a lovely introduction.

Rosie Gill-Moss: 2:27

The five minute intro. Yeah, I do have a tendency to go on a tangent. Funny that. Um, so Louise, one of the things I really wanted to ask you about and just to sort of kick things off, and I know this is all out there. If people want to research you and find out a bit more about your background, but it's just a little bit of, um, kind of the why, what pushed you into this area of women's health and particularly menopause? And I think you've been described as I've got it here. The medic who, the medic who kick started the menopause revolution. Now that's quite the accolade. So just tell me a little bit about the why and how, if you will.

Louise Newson: 3:02

Yeah, so I've had quite an interesting background in that, um, I trained obviously as a doctor, but I also took a year out and did a pathology degree, so a science degree as well. Did a lot of hospital medicine, then went into general practice 25 years ago. Um, and then I worked part time because as you say, I've got children, I've got three daughters, and I didn't want to be a full time nurse. Um, doing on call hospital medicine with a husband who is a surgeon also doing on call medicine, you know, hospital work and not seeing my children. My father died when I was nine and I remember him and I want my children to remember and know who I am. So I went part time into general practice, but I didn't really enjoy the coffee mornings and the the sort of chit chat you have with children and mothers. And I wanted to be stimulated, so I, I did a lot of evidence based medicine. I wrote books for, uh, GPs to learn about evidence. I'd summarize guidelines, summarize things. difficult papers so they could just literally read top lines to help them work in all sorts of areas of medicine. So in heart disease and diabetes and blood pressure and kidney disease, autoimmune diseases, everything really, which is a great way because when you write about things, You have to know the facts, but then I also worked up with the Royal College of GPs reviewing guidelines as they came up again for GPs. So going to the literature, summarizing the guidelines, enabling them to know very quickly what was going on and what was in the guidelines. So in 2015, I summarized the menopause, um, NICE guidance that came out. So it led me to go back to all the studies, including the breast cancer study. And just actually being outraged. I remember reading them and reading them again and again and again and thinking, but why are women not being listened to? Why are we being turned away from HRT? Why are we being even told it's associated with breast cancer? Because the HRT we prescribe now isn't even the HRT used in that study. Like, so then I started to get quite outraged, but it was eight years ago. Um, I was 45. Some of my friends were perimenopausal, embarrassingly, I was too, but took me six months to realize having a horrendous time at the, um, and I just learned more and more. And then my friends were starting to come out of their doctors saying, Oh, I've been given a treatment. I said, that's great. What type of HRT? Oh, no, I've been given Citalopram, Benlafaxine, Sertraline. What? They're antidepressants. You're not depressed. Oh, well, my doctor said I can't have HRT because it's too dangerous. What? What's going on? So I started to play with the media, develop my social media, educate women, set up a clinic to help some of my friends get on HRT properly, if that's what they wanted. And then it just morphed. And the more I work, I do, the more stories I hear. And the more outraged I am actually, because menopause affects a hundred percent of women. Most of us will be perimenopause, this time of flux when our hormones run over the place, which is actually often worse than the menopause. But most of us also have PMS and at least 20%, probably, it varies what you read, but it doesn't really matter. Women are having PMDD. And also, you know, I've got, yeah, and I've got three daughters and even when I was pregnant, I was told, Oh, Louise, you're going to have this baby blues. You're going to have some brain, baby sort of brain fog. You're going to find it painful when you have sex with your husband, even though you've known him for 20 years. And you're going to feel sweaty at night when your milk comes in. I was like, okay, okay. Why didn't someone tell me your hormones are 55, 000, your estrogen level will be 55, 000. It will drop overnight and you will experience a hormonal change like you've never had before. Because. It's taken me years to even understand that. So this whole injustice to women and us being scared of our hormones is absolutely ridiculous. We're not scared of insulin, we're not scared of thyroxine, we're not scared of other hormones. And they're not even sex hormones, because men produce estrogen and progesterone, and we produce testosterone. You know, they're heterosexual hormones. that we've got this whole agenda about it. And before I carry on, I do no paid work with pharma, so I don't have any pharmaceutical company. And that's very important because there's a lot of doctors, menopause specialists, menopause charities that are funded by pharma. And it means they have their own interests. And I, my interest is to help women feel better, but live better as well.

Rosie Gill-Moss: 7:31

That's made me go all goose bumpy, actually, that has, because you do need somebody to be at the forefront of this, somebody who was studying pathology while most of us were rocking back and forth with small children, so well done. Um, but you talked here about this, so I'm just going to draw you back onto PMDD because this is something I didn't even know existed. It's, it's premenstrual dysmorphic disorder. Is that right?

Louise Newson: 7:54

Yes. So it basically means you've got PMS, which is premenstrual syndrome. So I don't know if I'm allowed to swear on this podcast, but you

Rosie Gill-Moss: 8:02

Of course you are.

Louise Newson: 8:02

shit just before your period, but you feel really shit, like it affects people different ways, physically and psychologically. So, and they're all menopausal symptoms, by the way, or perimenopausal symptoms, because they're symptoms related to changing, So people often feel very anxious, very low, very dark. They ruminate a lot, they catastrophize, they overthink. But they might also have palpitations, they might have dry skin, they might have cystitis. They might have reflux, they might have change in brown habit, they might have headaches or migraines. And it's a pattern recognition thing. So if you like, obviously I, um, created balance apps so people could monitor symptoms. It's not just for waiting till you're menopausal. So if you monitor your periods and your symptoms, and you're noticing you're getting symptoms for those few days before your periods, it's not rocket science. Our hormones change just before our Periods, they get very low. So if you're noticing those symptoms, then it's either PMS or PMDD. And these are just labels. We're very good as doctors giving labels to people. I don't really care whether it's perimenopause or menopause. It is a hormonal change that's affecting that woman. And that's where we have to change the conversation. Because if there's a hormonal change, what do we do? We replace the missing hormones. And for a lot of women with PMS and PMDD, Change, give those hormones for those few days where they're suffering, because the rest of the month they might feel fine because they've got adequate hormones in their brain and their organs and their system.

Rosie Gill-Moss: 9:39

And this, the PMDD thing, it was, it was actually my husband that found it because as I hit what I now know as perimenopause, um, I was suffering, also my coil, because the marina coil is often the first line of defense, isn't it, for PMDD. And I, it's, I won't bore you with the graphic details, but it's stuck. So it's, it's. It's lost. It's, it doesn't function anymore. I'm scheduled to have it taken out in a general, which is nice. Um, but it meant that I was suddenly having these real catastrophizing thoughts, these ideations. I, I felt, and the only way I can describe it, and having read your book, I now understand why, is how I felt at 17. I was quite a, Stable child, you know, I was quite, in inverted commas, normal. And as I hit puberty, I, I hit it like, the way I describe it would be like a bus into a brick wall. I, I was very troubled would probably be the word. I was also undiagnosed neurodivergent, which I think obviously is a factor here. But this is how I felt again. You know, there's, there's a, there's a dent in my bathroom wall from where I hit the wall. I threw a. Giraffe, um, kitchen roll holder, unfortunately at the floor, I hasten to add, but there's a dent in my floor. I'm behaving like an out of control teenager, what on earth is going on? And it was, you know, subsequently I was able to, you know, obtain HRT and I, I started off with the, um, with the combined, the test, the, oestrogen. And then it was through your clinic, the testosterone was introduced. And actually, I think that's the thing that's made the biggest difference to me in terms of anxiety and mood swings and the sort of, and the low moods. Um, and that's really difficult to get hold of, isn't it? You can't go to your GP and say, I'm perimenopausal. Or they might. You might, if you are lucky and you've got a sympathetic one, you might get estrogen, progesterone, I did from my gp, but you say the word testosterone and it's only licensed for low libido and vaginal dryness for starters, which kind of shows you where their priorities are because who does that affect? Men, right? So. You can't have it for your, um, anxiety, your low mood, your restlessness, your sleep. Why is that? Why are they so behind on this? Mm

Louise Newson: 11:43

Well, because it's about women, isn't it? Women are always, you know, not listened to, not believed. Um, and, and it's also, it's not actually, testosterone is not even licensed for UK or many other countries. It's only licensed in Australia, but we are able to prescribe it. There's lots of things in medicine we prescribe. off license. So lots of medication, for example, in children isn't licensed, but we know it's safe, we know it's effective, so we can still prescribe it. So in the NHS, you can only prescribe the male testosterone, because of course they have it licensed for them,

Rosie Gill-Moss: 12:15

of course,

Louise Newson: 12:15

in the lower dose. Because we produce testosterone, it's the same hormone, but it's a lower amount, obviously, that we have compared to men. So we can prescribe it, but you're right, the guidelines state we can only consider it if women have reduced sexual desire despite taking HRT. Now most women at some stage have reduced sexual desire, um, but we also know from our huge clinical experience and from others who prescribe testosterone that it's not just libido, it can help with mood as well. energy concentration, stamina, it can help people function better. And actually a lot of women with ADHD say they feel they can think clearer. It's less fragmented. It's less chaos in their brain.

Rosie Gill-Moss: 12:59

I was on 72 milligrams of a DH ADHD meds every day, and I'm now on 10. Um, and the, the only the correlation is, is the start is the combined team.

Louise Newson: 13:09

Yeah. And, and the thing is in medicine, if I don't understand something, I am like an annoying two year old. And I'll just say, but why, why is it? And so then, I go back to my physiology, pathology, basic science notes, and you think, gosh, guess what? Testosterone works all over our brain. It's produced and made in our brain. So our brain needs it for processing. It works with other neurotransmitters, so other chemicals in our brain. So it helps levels of dopamine, and serotonin, and adrenaline, and cortisol. So of course it has important roles. So, our brain also likes things very calm, it likes homeostasis, it likes it when we feed it properly, and we give it enough water, and we give it enough sleep. But also, in this perimenopause, or with PMS, PMDD, we have these chaotic levels of hormones. So it means our hormone levels are going up and down and our brain is responding in weird ways to that. So it's not always because the hormone levels are low, it's because they're changing. So if we replace the hormones in a nice steady state, it will help the brain to function. So we don't always need complicated big studies to show something that's very obvious in medicine. But what we do need to know Or what we do need to do rather is have a joined up thinking where other people understand basic pathophysiology. And too often, any hormonal issue is dealt with by gynecologists who don't think above the ovaries. They don't understand that these hormones are produced in our brain. They see it as a function of our wombs and about our bleeding and about whether we can get pregnant or not. And as you know, and everyone listening to this podcast knows, women are more than just their womb and ovaries. And until we have this joined up thinking, this less siloed medicine, it's always going to be difficult for women to be acknowledged, heard, and also offer the right treatment.

Rosie Gill-Moss: 15:18

Actually, there's a huge inequality within our gender as well because you I pay to to access your clinic and that's the only way that I can access this third sort of piece of the puzzle, which is actually the pharmacist at the local chemist. when I started on the HRT, she said, Oh, make sure you get testosterone. And I was like, why? And then yeah, and then I went on to this kind of, you know, this Deep dive into why I need a testosterone. Now, it's not, it actually is less expensive than I thought it would be because you offer a clinic online. So you're not having to pay for in person appointments, but it is still, you know, it is a cost. So there's a huge inequality in terms of what you can access in terms of your finances, which seems and is really, really unfair. So yes, there is You can access it, but only if you can pay for it at the moment. So I know that, um, I know that there has been studies done, and I think you've done, you did a podcast on inequality in, in, um, access to HRT and things. And I'm just wondering if you think there's any chance of this changing anytime soon?

Louise Newson: 16:22

I'd love to say yes, and I think it will have to. So, um, you know, it's awful that women have to pay. It's awful that I have a private clinic. It's awful that I see women from all socioeconomic classes through the clinic. A lot of them really can't afford, but they want the job. They want their partner to come back

Rosie Gill-Moss: 16:38

They want their

Louise Newson: 16:38

want their life. And a lot of women say it's the best money I ever spent. But what we do do as an organization is use a lot of that money to reach other people. So we're reaching people through our free app. I do a lot of outreach work. We do a lot of charity work. We, I've been working a lot in prisons recently, um, obviously without being paid, of course. But it enables, it's a great enabler, the clinic, um, you know, lots of private clinics have set up and it's just, you know, helping those people that come directly to the clinic. But I don't want that because I'm driven by the injustice, the, um, it shouldn't be, I went into medicine so all people could get the same care and it's, it's not happening. There's so many disadvantaged groups and it's not. their fault that they're in these disadvantaged groups. And it's not for me as a clinician to judge and exclude those people in various disadvantaged groups. So I'm very fortunate that our clinics got so big that, you know, we can do things very differently. And we're actually now setting up a foundation. So a charitable foundation where a lot of this work can be done, which I think is going to be a game changer for people to really understand who I am and what I'm about, but what we can all do together. It's not me on my own. It's not even the team that I employ. It's others globally, men and women who want to make the difference. And I think that's the only way things are going to change because me as a lone voice is just being silenced all the time by. you know, other people that don't want me to be out of my box, but we work differently. Now we've got podcasts, you've got social media, we've got ways of connecting and women work in mysterious ways. And I love it.

Rosie Gill-Moss: 18:25

I'm just thinking as well, you know, this kind of This idea that we're all involved in this that it isn't just affecting women in there Let's I'm going to say 40s and 50s just as a generalization. I know it can affect people at various ages so This this group of women that's you know Almost becomes invisible because we talk a lot and our parents generation would have talked a lot about becoming invisible and you I can remember, I talk about my mum says, Oh, I didn't struggle with my menopause at all. And I'm thinking, are you sure mum? Because the other thing is it will land almost without fail at the time that you're, if you've got children, your teenagers are hitting puberty. So what you've then got is this kind of melting pot of hormones going on in a house. And I know that you've had your daughter and your mum on your podcast, haven't you, to talk about it? Because I think this is, I've got in my head this idea of going into schools and sort of, I said to my son, how would you feel if I came to your school and talked about menopause? And he looked absolutely horrified. So I probably wouldn't start there. But this idea of it being an intergenerational talk conversation, that you can say to your children, I'm not mad. My mum isn't mad. You know, it might seem like I am sometimes. And, you know, there were points last year when I didn't know who I was going to be when I put my feet on the floor in the morning, and it was utterly terrifying, and it must have had an impact on my kids. So I think by having this conversation with them and saying, you know, it's a hormonal fluctuation, and then, you know, you're going to get us hormones. But I'm thinking it has to become something that we talk about with our teenagers and with our husbands and with our friends, because Men are going to be affected by this. It's seen as very much a female problem, but if you live with a woman or you have a mother or a daughter, then you will, the likelihood is you're going to be impacted by this too. So I think this spreading the word and keeping the conversation going so often, it's, um, and I'm referring back to ADHD here. There's that, oh, you know, it wasn't a problem in my day and oh, you know, it's, you're all making a fuss, making excuses. And it's almost like it's been tarnished with that sort of same, um, I'm trying to think of the word here, sort of, Rhetoric. There we go. Found the word.

Louise Newson: 20:27

Very good.

Rosie Gill-Moss: 20:29

Thank you.

Louise Newson: 20:32

Yeah, and I think what you said before, you know, women are being labeled and we see a lot of women who have ADHD, which has either been diagnosed or it's got worse and the hormones are changing. So in medicine, you treat the underlying cause first and you don't always get it right. Often we give a treatment. If it doesn't work, we give another one or we try something else. We think of a different diagnosis. You know, when we treat people, it's very dynamic process. It's not a you know, one size fits all, you know, one stop, that's it, you'll get everything sorted. But actually, if you're just putting layers and layers and giving people different diagnosis and treating each thing in silo, you'll never reach the underlying cause. So if someone's got ADHD, for example, then, and it's got worse, but they're also telling me that their periods are changing and they're getting palpitations and they're getting other symptoms. Well, let's look at the thing that's connecting them. Not let's just not give them a moisturizer for their skin and antibiotics for their urinary tract infection and then ADHD drug. So I'll read that. I'll balance the hormones and then see what's left. If you like. And if they're still getting dry skin, of course, that's when I will think about, have they got eczema? Is there something else going on? But let's do the obvious things first, and that will help people have less medication, have less labels, have less suffering. It's very common sense medicine, but, and this is where the whole pharma conversation comes in, it's not expensive. It's very cheap to prescribe hormones. And there is this agenda that that's, you know, not what big pharma want.

Rosie Gill-Moss: 22:11

also, it is, it's body identical, isn't it? You and you are replacing hormones that you've lost.'cause I think this is the other thing, we, uh, as a society and understandably, we are becoming quite resistant to big pharma because I think we all feel we've been duped. And I know for me personally, and that's the only experience I can draw from, I. prescribes antidepressants, then I was prescribed ADHD meds, then I was prescribed anti anxiety medication to counter the effects of the ADHD meds. And suddenly you've got this row of medicines in the morning and you're taking one to counteract the other to counteract the other. And as I went on to HRT, and that's the other thing is, it's not a quick process, is it? You, it takes a while to get that balance right. And I've been having regular blood tests. In fact, I had one this week. So it's, and you can see this sort of, as the hormones start to balance out again, But it happens quite slowly. And as I said earlier, as a result, my, um, I much lower dose of antidepressant. I'd like to come off them at some point and much lower dose of ADHD meds. So what you've said there, I mean, obviously it's right, but it's you, you're addressing the underlying problem, which was the hormone imbalance, which then had a positive impact on everything else. So you, the reluctance to put things into your body, but actually it's, Again, it's that whitewashing of all, all medicine is evil, um, that we've, we've kind of, that's the message that we're, we're sort of, I'm sorry, I'm rambling a little bit, but I think that's the resistance, one of the resistance I'm seeing in my sort of cohort is, Oh, I don't want to take anything else. So I don't want to be dependent on medications, et

Louise Newson: 23:38

I think, I think what's really interesting in this conversation is that actually hormones aren't medicine. They are natural hormones. They are biochemically exactly the same as the hormones we produce when we're younger. So they haven't been chemically modified like the contraceptives. have. We're very fortunate now, we didn't have these decades ago, but we've got these natural hormones that we can prescribe. So we're replacing like for like, which is very good, and it's a choice. Like I'm not here saying everyone has to take them, but I'm here saying everyone needs to know that you have a choice of having your natural hormones in a way that we didn't have before. So they're not actually drugs, they're not, they're not medicines. just because we prescribe them, but we prescribe insulin, you know, um, it's actually, we're very fortunate and they're safer than a lot of the so called natural supplements that you can buy over the counter. So it's sort of, people also then worry about the risks. How can our own hormones. be at risk. There's no evidence, and I can't find any evidence, and if anyone has, please challenge me, that pure estradiol, pure progesterone, and pure testosterone increase the risk of any cancer at all. Because in the history of All the papers and books I've read, I cannot find any evidence. I can find evidence that the older synthetic progestogens have a very small risk of breast cancer. I can find evidence that the older types of oestrogen that came from pregnant horse's urine had a very small increased risk of breast cancer.

Rosie Gill-Moss: 25:21

Gross.

Louise Newson: 25:21

of the womb, but I can't find any evidence that our own natural hormones given to any woman at any age Increase risk of any cancer, but I can find evidence that they reduce risk of various cancers But they also reduce risk of heart disease and dementia, which are the common causes of death in women And there's plenty of evidence that we've had for decades, centuries in fact, that women who take a hormonal substance have better quality of life. And so it's what you want out of your life. But the other thing is, is looking differently and thinking, what are the risks of not having hormones? If you don't have hormones then there's more suffering for lots of us. But there's also, whether we have symptoms or not, there's an increased risk of diseases. Inflammatory diseases, including heart disease, dementia, osteoporosis, clinical depression, cancers, autoimmune diseases. These will increase without our hormones, because that's a fact, because our hormones reduce inflammation in our body. But we can reduce inflammation by eating well, by exercising, by not smoking, not drinking. So it's up to an individual what they do, but they have to know the facts. And the problem is we haven't been given all the facts. And even now we're not because people have their own agendas that they want to control women or they want to medicalize women in different ways. They don't want women to have the right knowledge or the right facts. Without the facts, anything in life. You can't make decisions. And that's where things are changing now. Yeah, of course it is. It's an absolute choice. But women have been suppressed for a long time. You know, I'm doing a lot of research in this area for the tour that I'm doing in the autumn. And some of the facts I'm going to be sharing with people will, hopefully, I will hear audible gasps in the audience because it's shocking. So there's

Rosie Gill-Moss: 27:10

see if I can get a ticket for this

Louise Newson: 27:11

yeah, there is lots of information that is all factual. But it's, it's not been out there and it will be out there in the autumn when I talk about

Rosie Gill-Moss: 27:20

I can't wait. You'll have to come back on.

Louise Newson: 27:22

Yeah.

Rosie Gill-Moss: 27:23

Now, you touched there about this, there is no link to an increased cancer risk. So what about if you have this hormonal, um, the BRCA, is it the BRCA gene? So you're more susceptible to

Louise Newson: 27:34

Yeah. So if you've got

Rosie Gill-Moss: 27:35

that an exception?

Louise Newson: 27:36

No, not at all. So if you've got brachygene, that means that you're more likely to have breast cancer because you've got this genetic change. But actually, women who take natural hormones, there's some studies that show they have a lower risk of breast cancer. Um, and so women who take HRT will have this risk because of their brachygene, but their risk will not increase by taking natural hormones and it might be that their risk might reduce. So women who've got oestrogen receptor positive breast cancer, the oncologist often try and avoid oestrogen. But actually, We can still consider testosterone, often consider progesterone as well. So we need to individualize care, which is what we do with everyone anyway. But just I see women who've had breast cancer 20 years ago, and I just told no to hormones. Well, it's not all hormones. And let's see what the benefits are. And a lot of women say, well, the breast cancer I had 20 years ago was very small. It was treated, I've been 20 years, cancer free, but I'm really worried because I've now been diagnosed with osteoporosis and my brother dropped out of a heart attack when he was my age. So let's give women a choice again and decide whether they want to consider hormones or not and, you know, finding the right balance for them.

Rosie Gill-Moss: 28:58

and actually all those kind of co morbidities of beta pores that you described, the increased risk of osteoporosis and heart disease, all of those things you'd need to take medication for, which would not be a natural hormone. So actually by not wanting to take the natural hormone, you probably increase your likelihood of having to have medical intervention later. And there's lots of things I, I mean, I'm just I'm going around in circles a bit here, but just you talked there about, um, like joints and things. So I was getting to a point where I was putting my feet on the floor and the heels of my feet hurt every morning. And I've got quite a lot of solid floors in my house. So I started wearing my crocs in the house or, you know, special orthopedic flip flops in the house. And it just wasn't getting any better. And then I went on HRT and got the testosterone levels, um, a little high and it's sometimes I ache a bit, but it's those things that we just hate. We assume that's just natural signs of aging, that we're gonna creak a bit when we get up that we're gonna gain weight. And I sort of have skirted around the weight issue because I'm in recovery for eating disorders myself. So I very much try not to focus in on, on weight loss. Um, which in this modern world is, is pretty difficult, but weight gain around menopause, that's something else that we've been told to just accept that we're gonna get the podge meno belly and there's nothing you can do about it. And actually that's not true, is it?

Louise Newson: 30:11

No, so our body needs oestrogen. It's a really important biologically active hormone. But if we don't produce enough from our ovaries and, and our other organs, our body tries to compensate. You know, our bodies are really clever, but one of the ways it can produce oestrogen is from fat cells, but it's a weak type of oestrogen called oestrone. So it doesn't work in the same way. It's actually quite pro inflammatory, but it's best that the body can do so it produces more fat, including in the midline. Um, and, um, that's why a lot of people put on weight. There's also metabolic changes with the way we metabolize sugar when we don't have oestrogen in our body. But often people find when they have natural hormones back, their weight changes. improves. And I remember eight years ago, my mom coming and she's going, Oh, you're putting on a bit of weight. Oh, shut up, mother. I know I am. Cause when I put

Rosie Gill-Moss: 30:59

Thanks mom.

Louise Newson: 31:01

it's always, when you sit down, you've got the seat belt across you. You look down and you think, Oh God, it's just

Rosie Gill-Moss: 31:06

can't breathe.

Louise Newson: 31:07

but I also had stopped doing yoga because my joints like you was really stiff and I felt like a. Tin, like the Tin Man from, you know, The Wizard of Oz. I just, like when you do good yoga practice, you're flowing and it's lovely and you're just, and I couldn't, I felt like just some stiff middle aged, which is what I am, I suppose, woman, that just couldn't, and I just, I couldn't have the energy, I just, I can't be bothered. Whereas now, even this morning, I thought, oh, I can't be bothered to do yoga, I'm gonna have, nope. And I've just done 20 minutes, you know, but 20 minutes yoga ending in a headstand is a great way to start the day. But I would never have even done

Rosie Gill-Moss: 31:44

well, Louise.

Louise Newson: 31:45

you know, so

Rosie Gill-Moss: 31:47

But I did it when I started up and I, because I was running and you know, my hips were hurting. And I mean, I'm not, I'm not a natural athlete anyway, but I was doing it all if I'm honest with the, you know, the mindset of I need to lose weight. And it was, I discovered yoga about a year, year and a half ago. And, um, it's. It's transformed my life. But same as you. I was finding that I was my back was just creaking and I was having pain injections at one point because my back was aching so much. So it was having a very real impact on my life. And I'm still fairly young and you use the term middle age then and that's Kind of uses a derogatory term, but actually if you break it down, middle age, it means we're halfway through. Like I still got, I hope I've got another 40 to go. And I know that the best way of me securing a comfortable old age is by being active, eating, you know, well, most of the time. I'm prone to devouring 30 minutes on the odd occasion, like everybody else, but moving, I've gone full ice baths and meditation and everything. Because I think you, you realize at this point in your life that in order to have the best. Next part of your life. You've got to take action now. And I was like many women of a certain age. I was a heavy drinker and I stopped drinking. And I think that also made me more aware of what's going on in my body. Because when you're drinking a lot, you miss so much. And I think that's also happening in my peer group is that we're sort of moving away from the party lifestyle because, well, we're getting old. Um, I just also quickly while I've got you here. It was, I'm just going to quickly go back into my list. Bear with me one second. Now, you did touch earlier in the conversation, and I don't know if you're happy to talk about it, but I'll ask you and I can always edit it out, but you talked about losing your, your dad when you were nine. Now that is, it's not on topic particularly, but it is a really special interest of mine because my, my husband and my, my children's dad died and my children were, um, seven, five and six months. So your mum, She presumably went through menopause on her own in a world that really wasn't geared up to support with the widows. I mean, it isn't now, if I'm honest, that's why I do what I do. Um, and I just, I guess I just wanted to, while I had you, just ask you about the impact that would have had on, A, your mum at the time. And also, you know, one of the things I try and do in my career. My work is to show people that you will be okay and that your children will probably be okay. And I think seeing the success that you've made of your life, despite having had a huge tragedy at nine is quite a positive message. So if you're happy to, and you don't mind going off

Louise Newson: 34:18

to talk about it. I mean, I'm not happy that my dad died, of course, but, um, and I think about him every day, but yeah, he died when I was nine and he had a brain tumour. He died in 1979 and he'd had this brain tumour when I, I think it was first diagnosed when I was about three or four, but no one told me. And, um, and then he became. ill and was in hospital and unusually that my mum lived with him in the hospital in London, which, you know, people now stay overnight, but they didn't then, but she's quite persistent person and spent his last days of his life with, with together. My grandparents looked after us. But no one prepared me for his death. And I'm telling you that because I was really cross, like when she came and told us he died, my sister fell apart and I was just, I'm too angry. Why didn't you even warn me that he could be dying? I thought you were coming home because he was better. And that crossness has stayed with me. And I think that's probably one of the reasons that I want to educate people so much. because I don't want them to be in the dark like I was as a very young child. Um, but I then I was sent off to a boarding school. My mom had no money. My husband, my husband, my father didn't Didn't leave money. So he was a freemason. I don't still know really what they do But it was a masonic school that was paid for by the freemasons And it was all people like me who had lost a father and were lumped into this dark Terribly, terribly strict boarding school, and it was awful, and I, I wanted to get out of it because I wanted to read medicine and it wasn't academic, so I worked really hard, I'm quite motivated, and, um, I knew I had to go somewhere else for sixth form, otherwise I'd never get into university, let alone do medicine, um, and I managed to get a scholarship to a school for sixth form, but I got bullied a lot at school. made fun of for working so hard and always getting really high marks. But that's good because it makes you really tough. And I think in so much in life, even more now, because women are not believed, it's always about where you've had trauma in your life. You've had something going on. You're a complicated person. Would you know what my trauma has made me really tough, but it's also made me really independent and also not very trustworthy of people because people can be really cruel and selfish. So it's actually been a good thing because I think if my father had stayed living, I was in such a happy place with such a close family that I would have been more protected. I would have been more spoiled. He probably had good earning potential and I would have financially been more, um, you know, Secure. Everything I do now is because I've earned the money. I've never had external funding. But the other thing is, is that my mother had three children like you. They were 12, 9 and 2. Um, my father died three days after my, my brother's second birthday. My mom had to get a job. She worked as a teacher and, um, she freelanced initially, which she sat in the wrong person's chair in the staff room. And she was scowled at because she wore a short sleeve top, which you shouldn't wear in the seventies, you know, But then she started to like feel rubbish teaching and get occasional hot sweats. And she went to the doctor and she said, they luckily, and the first doctor actually said it's the change. She had no idea what the change was, but gave her some Dixirid, which is some non hormone, it's clonidine, it's a rubbish drug, not hormonal. And it made her feel dreadful, made her feel a bit dizzy. So she went back, luckily. And the second doctor said, Oh, you just need some of this Premarin, which is the pregnant horse's urine, HRT, because that's all it was then. But she said, Louise, within days I felt better. Yeah. You didn't, you didn't ask questions. You just took whatever you were given. She took this medicine and felt better. And without HRT, she would not have worked. And I can't tell you how old she is, but I'm. 54 on Sunday. So you can sort of work out how old she is. She's only just retired. She's been working as a lambda examiner for 41 years and she definitely would not have been doing that without hormones. So she was very lucky. So her experience was good, but it would have been very different if she'd not seen that second doctor.

Rosie Gill-Moss: 38:33

Well, I just wrote down as you were talking, I wrote the word tenacious. Um, I mean, you know, it obviously runs down the line here, but you can, but without her going back to the doctor, because so many women would have A, possibly not even gone to the doctor, then tried the medicine. It doesn't work. It would get put in the back of a cupboard. I tried it, it didn't work for me. But then for her to go back again and keep pushing, that's quite, that's why I've written the word tenacious. Um, and I guess for you to see your mum pull herself through, you know, what I can tell you from experience is the most traumatic thing you can imagine, you know, second only, I guess, to losing a child. Um, and then, to seek out support, to get herself correctly diagnosed, to get the treatment and, and to go on and kind of show you what, what can be achieved. And then you're then, you know, doing that in order to show your children. And I think it's such an important message that we as women pass down. And I don't even think it has to be in paid work. I don't want to shame people that make the choice to be home. I made that choice for a long time. It's about, um, showing that you have a voice and that you sometimes, you know, sometimes we'll. Um, even if you go to a hotel and it's really a bit crap, right? And I just say to the kids, I'm really sorry, but I'm going to have to go. I'm going to have to go. And you're just showing them that you, you can speak up for yourselves in circumstance. And I just think that's a really, really important message that we show not only our daughters, but our sons as well.

Louise Newson: 39:56

totally.

Rosie Gill-Moss: 39:57

So just sort of while I've still got you Louise, I thought it might be worth just a quick recap of um, avenues that women who suspect they might be perimenopausal or even, and again, men who live with women who they think might be perimenopausal, but sometimes we're not that receptive to being told it's our hormones, right? Um, and things that they, they can do and I'm thinking your app, which is free, so that's a really brilliant resource because I know one of the key things that you, um, recommend is that you, it's knowledge. So track your cycles, track your hormones, track the way you feel. I'm a bit chaotic. So I've got just a notes in my phone and it's, um, what do I call it? Like dragon day. And I just put in the dates and then I gradually began to see that, Oh, okay. Maybe it is hormones as a correlation. Maybe I'm not mad because actually that that's one thing I did want to mention as well is the speed in which doctors will diagnose things like BPD or clinical depression. Um, those labels are really quite, um, And if that is a diagnosis that you need, then that's great. But often it isn't, and we're left thinking we're losing our minds. We're mad I've got a permanent diagnosis of something. Um, and so often, actually, it is these hideous hormonal fluctuations leading you to behave erratically, leading you to be forgetful, leading you to kind of mimic all these symptoms of really quite serious mental health disorders. Um, So yeah, sorry, again, off on a tangent, but I think it's a really, the key things would be to track your, track your cycle, track your mood swings, really get a handle on what's going on. And then would you advise approaching the NHS? Do you think it's

Louise Newson: 41:26

Yeah, for sure. I think, I think also, you know, with other people, whether it's, whether it's children or relatives or work colleagues, friends, it doesn't really matter, get them to try and monitor as well, because when you're day to day, you don't always see the changes. Um, and I think it is important for everybody to know and recognize and say, Oh, are you feeling like this? Because of your hormones, or is there something else going on? Because you don't want to miss there's something else going on, of course, if you're that person who's witnessing some changes. And that's where, you know, the app, listening to some podcasts, reading my book, just allowing others to have knowledge is really, really important. But absolutely, if anyone is having any symptoms that could be related, and even if they're on hormones, but they're still getting a dip, before periods, you need to speak to someone. And it might be like my mother had more than one person till you get the right help, but explain that you've got the knowledge. You think it's related to hormones. You would like hormones and you would like the right balance of hormones. And it might be that you can only get. estrogen and progesterone from your NHS GP and you might have to go privately. A lot of women come to our clinic and we do this testosterone quick start consultation, so it's cheaper. They're on HRT, they get on to testosterone, they come back for a review and then often the doctors will carry on and prescribe it. So a lot of people only come to our clinic once or twice. They're not tied in, if you see what I mean, because it's obviously a big financial commitment. And we work very closely with GPs who will then carry on prescribing. So, um, it's definitely keep talking to someone until you've been heard. And if you feel you're not offered the right treatment or the right advice, you are allowed to see someone else in the NHS. That's absolutely fine. But you know, take someone with you and you know, help them, let them help be an advocate for you. So you get what you need because most of us, hopefully, I don't know how long I'm going to live for, will be menopausal for a few decades. So it's not just something that you need to get over for a week or two. It's really important that you're investing in your future health. So you're getting the right treatment that you, need and deserve really.

Rosie Gill-Moss: 43:34

Yeah, I agree. And actually somebody else said that to me. She said, does your husband go with you to your um, menopause appointments? That's what they've done on zoom. And no, um, and he, and they, they said, Oh, you should get them to sit in on them because I thought, Oh, you, I'd never thought to do that. But actually what is, what we're going through when we go through perimenopause impacts on our family, our friends, our, our careers impacts on, it ricochets out. And the more people that you've got your team, In your corner on your team is actually better and the more they understand as well.'cause it must be quite scary living with somebody who's perimenopause actually. And that's one, that's why I, I believe in, in the, having the conversation because you know, I can still remember my mom kind of into the bedroom and just this kind of blind rage, I'm thinking, oh my God, what have I done? And of course I look back now and I realize that she was in perimenopause.

Louise Newson: 44:21

Yeah. And no one's too old to consider hormones as well. And I think that's, what's really important for people to realize. So, you know, a lot of people talk about being through the menopause. No one's through it unless they're dead because you've always got low hormones. And increasingly we see women who, who still have symptoms, all they want to take it to help. strengthen their bones, for example, and that's fine.

Rosie Gill-Moss: 44:44

That's really fascinating it and actually what just kind of tail that this you recommend that you start taking Hormones really the sooner the better

Louise Newson: 44:53

Yes.

Rosie Gill-Moss: 44:54

So what at what point would be I know this is a bit of a vague question, but At what point does PMDD or PMT or PMS become perimetopause and at what point can you start

Louise Newson: 45:05

But you can start hormones when you've got PMS and PMDD, so it doesn't matter, actually. A lot of people, ideally, would top up their hormones on those days they're having symptoms if they have PMS and PMDD, and then they'll take them for longer as their own hormones decline. So you sort of segue through all these hormonal changes, hopefully without having too many symptoms. So that's why the earlier you take it, there's less suffering as well.

Rosie Gill-Moss: 45:32

And would this be a similar concept? Sorry, I'd said we were going to finish and now I've got loads more questions. Is this a similar concept to giving, so I was put on the contraceptive pill quite young, um, the mini pill because I had incredibly heavy, painful periods. Incredibly dramatic mood swings. I mean, I was, I was in a psychiatric institution at 17 because nobody knew what to do with me. And I do look back and wonder how much of it was to do with hormones.

Louise Newson: 45:58

Absolutely. Um, it's so sad, isn't it? There are still people, I've got patients who are in psychiatric hospitals, who are now improving with hormones. And it's, that's why I don't want to be talking about perimenopause menopause. I want to be talking about a hormonal problem. And if we just talk about hormones, you as a 17 year old, or you as an 87 year old, have a hormonal problem that needs treatment. And that's the problem. Once you're locked into psychiatrists, they don't think about hormones. And you might've had a psychiatric condition as well. In medicine, you can have more than one diagnosis, but you can't exclude hormones because they get everywhere, including in our brains.

Rosie Gill-Moss: 46:37

And actually, hormone fluctuations in neurodivergent women do tend to be much stronger and more dramatic as in, as far as I can discern from my, my limited internet research. Um, and so it would make sense that you could, you know, if you put together that kind of melting pot of undiagnosed autism and ADHD with, um, a massive hormonal surge, you know, it doesn't, you know, it kind of makes sense that this is going to result in an explosion or a breakdown. And I guess it's, I feel for me personally, it makes me feel like I've not lost my mind, you know, that this is a hormonal fluctuation. And I'm able, if I wake up and I feel like that, you know, the snake, I call it the snake is in me, you know, that kind of, you know, lashing. And I'm, I am, It's not perfect, none of us are, but I am able to say to myself, this is, this is your week. This is the week where you're, you know, this happens and try and give myself a little bit compassion because actually this is hard. Navigating midlife is hard anyway. Being a parent is hard. Having a job is hard. And then you throw in this, uh, the idea that you're going to wake up in the morning and not know who you are. Yeah, it's, it's, it's tough. It is tough. And I'm so glad that there is information and there are people like you out there trying to, you know, educate and inform us so that we don't feel like we're losing our minds and we don't pull apart our families because we suddenly hate everybody. Um, and because the rates of divorce are like astronomical, aren't they, with women in their mid 40s. It's, uh, it's insane. And actually, I, I will just touch on the sort of the darker side of this, which is suicide. Um, and in your book, you do speak to a man who's, who's, who lost his wife to suicide as a result of perimenopause. And it, it doesn't surprise me. It scares me and it saddens me, but it doesn't surprise me, because I Even, you know, people are starting to talk more about the darkness and the ideation because previously you didn't, you didn't want to upset people, but I think the dialogue has changed. But the amount of people I know that are so low and so anxious and so frightened and it, just to know that it, this, this kind of indiscrepancy in care. It's basically what could be causing it. Sorry, that was, I went off on a little speech there. I got on my soapbox.

Louise Newson: 48:52

we have to, we have to remember that suicide rates increase in women in the perimenopause by a factor of seven and it's been neglected far too much. So it's real, it's

Rosie Gill-Moss: 49:02

It's the biggest killer, isn't

Louise Newson: 49:03

it's happening. It's in various age groups, yes, and postnatal depression can cause suicide as well, which again is a big hormonal shift. So, yeah, there's lots we need to do, that's for sure, to improve futures.

Rosie Gill-Moss: 49:16

is. Well, Louise, thank you so much for coming on to talk to me today. I have made, as always, copious notes. And for anybody listening, I'm not saying this just because Louise is sat in front of me, but the book, The definitive guide to the perimetopause and metopause. You can see I've got, I've annotated it, posted, noted it, and covered it in pen. So I really, really recommend it, and also Louise's balance app. And I will be looking to get tickets to your tour in autumn.

Louise Newson: 49:41

Great. Let me know when you come and I'll say hello, but thank you so much for having me today. It's been great.

Rosie Gill-Moss: 49:48

Thanks so much. And to everybody out there, if you are going through these, This kind of scary turbulent times. You, you aren't alone and my inbox is open and I'm sure that Louise would be willing to answer any questions you have as well at some point. So thank you for listening and take care of yourselves out there. Goodbye.