Equine Assisted Psychotherapy: How Horses Are Healers of Trauma, Abuse, Addiction and More.

Can horses really sense human emotions? Join me, Jeff Holden,  as I uncover the profound mental health benefits of equine assisted therapy with Donna Eckwortzel, Founder and Executive Director of Hearts Landing Ranch. Donna’s unique program at Hearts Landing Ranch allows participants to bond with rescued horses without ever riding them, harnessing the horses' natural instincts as prey animals to create a therapeutic environment ripe for emotional healing. Hear how being present with these empathetic animals can transform lives, and begin the healing process from PTSD, depression, abuse and trauma.

We'll talk with Deanna about the moving stories of resilience and recovery, firsthand after her family found hope from a traumatic event through Donna’s compassionate equine therapy services. We also touch on the powerful combination of EMDR (Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing) therapy with equine-assisted psychotherapy, showcasing Deanna's nine-year-old grandaughter's journey to overcome her fears and anxieties. This episode shines a light on the critical role of accessible mental health resources and how horses play an integral part in the healing process.

Explore the intricate dynamics of equine-assisted psychotherapy, from emotional exercises that help clients manage their feelings. Through a client-driven approach and a dedicated team of human therapists and equine specialists, Hearts Landing Ranch offers a non-judgmental space for self-discovery and healing. Listen to a touching narrative from Anabel, an employee from the Placer County DA's office. Be inspired by the incredible work at Hearts Landing Ranch and the profound impact of equine therapy on victims of trauma, veterans, and first responders.

For more information about the ranch visit: https://www.heartslandingranch.com/
Facebook: HeartsLandingRanch
YouTube:https://www.youtube.com/@heartslandingranch

Episode Highlights
(01:38 - 02:52) Rescued Ranch Horses Find Home
(03:53 - 05:12) Animal Behavior and Human Perception
(12:09 - 13:00) Youth Programs Making Positive Impact
(25:21 - 26:03) Equine Therapy and Emotional Balls Curriculum
(32:01 - 33:45) Supporting PTSD With Community Events
(40:35 - 42:05) Embracing Grief and Vulnerability
(47:10 - 48:22) Power of Community in Healing
(51:11 - 52:59) Discussing Vulnerability and Ego in Communication
(57:16 - 58:07) Property Expansion Plans and Growth
(01:02:16 - 01:02:53) Rescued Horses Support People

Chapter Summaries
(00:00) Therapeutic Benefits of Equine Therapy
Therapeutic benefits of horses, present moment awareness, and their ability to sense human emotions in a non-riding program.

(14:36) Hearts Landing Ranch Equine Therapy
Family finds healing through equine therapy and EMDR at Hearts Landing Ranch after a traumatic event.

(20:19) Equine Therapy for Trauma Healing
EMDR and EAP combine to heal trauma in a child through equine therapy, emphasizing patience and mutual healing.

(24:38) Equine-Assisted Therapy and Its Impact
Equine-assisted psychotherapy involves client-driven activities with non-judgmental horses, facilitated by a team of therapists and specialists.

(33:58) Healing and Resilience Through Horses
Equine therapy at Heart's Landing Ranch helps participants heal and discover themselves through bonding with horses and confronting emotional obstacles.

(49:28) Healing and Support Through Equine Therapy
Sharing personal stories and working with horses can help heal trauma and break societal taboos.

(01:02:30) Rescued Horses Support People in Need

Transcript

Donna Eckwortzel: [00:00:00] Horses cannot survive without a community, and in the wild, they have to learn how to work it out, so they can be part of a herd or a band, right? In human nature, we tend to think that we can, and we isolate ourselves, and so we're meant to be in community. God says that. We are meant to be along with one another and help each other.

We utilize that aspect of the horses wanting to be in community because they look at us as team members, also as part of the herd.

Jeff Holden: Hi, I'm Jeff Holden. Welcome to the Nonprofit Podcast Network. Our purpose and passion is to highlight a nonprofit organization in each weekly episode, giving that organization an opportunity to tell their story in their words to better inform and educate the respective communities they serve, as well as provide one more tool for them [00:01:00] to share their message to constituents and donors.

Our goal is to help build stronger communities through shared voices and to both encourage and support the growth of local nonprofit organizations through podcasting. Thanks to our founding partners for their foresight and helping us transform the way conversations start. CAPTRUST fiduciary advice for endowments and foundations.

Runyon Saltzman Incorporated, RSE, marketing, advertising and Public Relations, creating integrated communications committed to improving lives and Western Health Advantage, a full service healthcare plan for individuals, employer groups, and families. I don't know about you, but when somebody suggested I speak with an organization that uses horses for psychotherapy, I thought I knew exactly what they were about.

And nothing could have been further from the truth. The episode we're about to embark on doesn't require a saddle, boots, or even a pair of jeans, as these horses are not about getting saddled [00:02:00] up. They're about healing trauma as a result of their innate ability to sense an emotional connection. Donna Eckwertzel, founder and executive director, joins me today from Hearts Landing Ranch.

We'll also be joined by two beneficiaries of the program, Deanna and Annabelle, to share their stories. With a background in business and contract development in the high tech industry, it was her own healing experiences she had with horses as a teenager That never let go and has since driven her to start Heart's Landing Ranch, equine assisted learning and psychotherapy.

You're going to hear how these horses, all rescued I might add, make deep emotional connections in the hearts of those who have suffered abuse, depression, suicidal thoughts, human trafficking, addiction recovery, PTSD and more. You'll hear how the horse becomes a bridge for each person to find their voice to further articulate shame, guilt and guilt.

And wounded feelings. Let's get [00:03:00] started. Donna Ekwertzel, Deanna, and Annabelle, welcome to the Nonprofit Podcast Network. 

Donna Eckwortzel: Thank you so much. Great to be here. 

Jeff Holden: Boy, we are so excited because the conversation we're going to have today is unlike any other. 

Donna Eckwortzel: Okay, good. Good. I love it. 

Jeff Holden: And we have guests. We have Annabelle and Deanna.

And we'll be getting to you guys a little bit later in the program. You know, first off, how on earth did you come to realize that horses had therapeutic mental health capabilities? I mean, most of us can think that we would be riding the horse for the therapy. And I know there are programs like that. But your constituents never get on the horse.

Donna Eckwortzel: How did I come about it? Well, it was a divine direction, intervention. I wasn't looking to do this. Back in 2013 we were looking for property to have a horse spawn and couldn't find any [00:04:00] anything until we stumbled across the one where we are located in Grant and right in Granite Bay. And it wasn't until I was in the process of doing this that I realized it was a thing, not well known back then, and I think part of our work has been making it well, better known and understanding the therapeutic value of it by having our stampede and the harvest boar and things like that for awareness.

But to answer your question, what I realized during this work is back when I was 13 years old, that was my saving grace, was a horse named Spirit. And I get chills just telling you right now that horse saved my life. And I understand how all things work together for good, so. 

Jeff Holden: That's amazing. In terms of the horses themselves, there's more to it.

These aren't just horses that you acquire. The horses are compromised in some way, shape or form as well. You want to tell us a little bit about that? 

Donna Eckwortzel: Well, our particular horses, so every ranch [00:05:00] is different in terms of the, the animals that they have on the property. But if they're good stewards, like we are, you're looking for ones that want, that understand the work that they're going to do.

The ones that we have on the property, out of all, out of nine, Seven of them are rescued from dire situations, most of them from slaughter, outside of California, but in the United States. And so they were going to be sent off to a foreign country to be slaughtered for a consumable. And with that comes a lot of abuse during the process of going through the slaughter pipeline.

And I didn't know that And we were not aware that such thing existed, and neither did a lot of our volunteers when we started rescuing them. So we, the ones that we have on site are, you know, very good at their job. I think they also appreciate, you know, having a safe place to be, and they're, they're great at their job.

Jeff Holden: You speak of them as in first person, not first animal. Yeah, Tell us a little bit about what it is that allows a [00:06:00] horse to get into training today. Identify with trauma or PTSD or human trafficking. What is it that the horse either senses or picks up with? 

Donna Eckwortzel: Well, horses and prey animals, so our prey animals and most like most prey animals, they live in the complete present.

They're not worried about yesterday. They're not thinking about the future. They're in the present because they're on a high alert looking for predators, right? And, you know, entities that will be part of their herd, right? And there's always an evaluation that's going on. So. They're in a high alert state, which makes them a really good companion for the therapeutic process for mental health.

And so they're picking up, you know, our feelings and emotions and things like that, and either coming closer or walking away. And so hopefully we'll have Annabelle share with us a little bit about what that was like to have a horse cuddle up, you know, close to her. 

Jeff Holden: That's interesting. I recall from school or something, you know, [00:07:00] Prey, eyes on the side of the head.

You know, predator, eyes forward. And so horses do have their eyes on, you know, on the sides more than they do forward. 

Donna Eckwortzel: And what are we? 

Jeff Holden: Oh, I know. We're looking straight ahead. Yeah. Right at each other. 

Donna Eckwortzel: We walk and talk and act. We're eating predators, right? Yup, and act like that. And so there's the part of, you know, the, they can pick up senses that we think we can mask.

Right? So even though I walk up to a horse and think I'm having a, you know, I want to pet this horse and have a good time with this horse, but inside there's, there's a discrepancy going on inside and the horse will pick that up. And instead of, you know, trying to figure it out, they're like, I need to move away because there's something not right.

And we do that as humans, except for there's this nice part that, you know, be a nice person, people pleasing that we shut that down. And we don't want to judge. But they're judgment is dependent, their life is dependent on it. 

Jeff Holden: That's interesting because I would not have thought of [00:08:00] the element of the awareness as this person predator coming up and they're going to be extra sensitive to it.

So I can, I can now understand a little bit where they would, you get that sense of how you approach. 

Donna Eckwortzel: Yep. 

Jeff Holden: It's very interesting. 

Donna Eckwortzel: There's a great book that I have all of our folks read, which is Riding Home by Tim Hayes. And he does a really good job of communicating the therapeutic benefits of the mental health and the horses, but also the natural, the nature of a horse and why it's so effective.

So I highly recommend it. It's, he talks about the therapeutic aspects from Even, you know, what we think are challenging, right, gang members or people that have suffered from trauma, but he talks about divorce as being one of the biggest issues in terms of trauma in, you know, kids lives and things like that.

So he does the whole gamut and it's great because he's easy to read and then he also provides a whole bunch of [00:09:00] resources behind it too. So it's backed by a lot of resources and references. 

Jeff Holden: On your website, you also said something relative to in community. Which I think is, is, is key. You want to explain that a little bit?

Donna Eckwortzel: So, horses cannot survive without a community. And in the wild, they have to learn how to work it out. So they can be part of a herd or a band, right? In human nature, we tend to think that we can, and we isolate ourselves. And so we're meant to be in community. God says that. We are meant to be along with one another and help each other.

That's good times, bad times, you know, in the middle. And we need each other to work through. We were just talking about morning, you know, having conversations, just life situations. So we utilize that aspect of the horses wanting to be in community because they look at us as team members also as part of the herd.

Right? So, you know, but they're part of our herd and we need to be safe, you know, for them in that. [00:10:00] And, and when other people, new people come, they're always looking, you know, is this safe? Is this not safe? One of my favorite exercises is the round pen and working on boundaries and clear communication. And in the wild, a horse that is alone, maybe cast out from another herd, will find one and they will circle that herd.

And, and the leaders of that herd, the alpha mare and the stallion. We'll evaluate that behavior of the horse to see if it's a good addition to the herd. Is it going to cause conflict? Is it going to cause a drama? Right? All these things, right? Is it in their language? Is it going to take the breeding rights or, you know, eating and drinks and, you know, those kinds of things away drinking away from them.

So they're looking to see if it's going to be a good fit. And we use that in a lot of boundary work and clear communication work, whether or not you want to invite this horse into the herd. You're, you know, private because a lot of times people don't know how to look at the behavior and see it, because you can see it on the animal [00:11:00] and translate it into your own work as we're looking at humans too.

Does that make sense? Oh, 

Jeff Holden: absolutely. Absolutely. And we know those, those outcasts in society, where do they fit? They're trying to fit. And sometimes unfortunately they end up fitting into the wrong herd or into a bad situation that just gets worse. So, yeah, perfectly understood. How does a client get to you?

How do you, how do they find you? How does it happen that somebody says, I'm going to go to a ranch for my psychotherapy? There's lots of ways to 

Deanna: get to a ranch. You 

Jeff Holden: can get a Christmas tree. I have a hard time not saying. I'm going to go talk to a horse and I can't help but think of Mr. Ed, you know, it's like, and having the opportunity to have been there.

What was the large horse's name again? Midnight. Midnight. You know, a gargantuan horse to look at that head coming into the crowd of people. It was the horse's head was three of ours as [00:12:00] he just sticks it in and. It was, I wanted him to say something, he just seemed so, you know, intuitive, but, but how does a client get to you?

How does that happen? 

Donna Eckwortzel: Many different ways. And Deanna has some unusual story, but many different ways we, people find us now that equine assisted psychotherapy is becoming more well known. It's an alternative therapy, especially where one in six youth. or having some kind of trauma, depression, suicidal tendencies.

A lot of things are going on for kids and they're the least served. So when you think about that, you kind of think, ok, so traditional therapy is sitting in a room, right? And talking with someone. I don't know about you, but some, I'm almost 60 and I can't always know how I feel, you know, until I'm having that with friends and things like that.

Go ahead. And 

Deanna: nowadays it's not just sitting in a room nowadays, a large, large percentage of these counselors are doing everything online. Yes. [00:13:00] So you're not even, you are not getting to do this person to person. You're getting a computer screen, right? 

Jeff Holden: Yep. 

Deanna: So how impersonal when you're going through something so deep?

How impersonal. It's a computer screen. Can you really open up to that computer screen? Can you really reach out and touch that computer screen? Can that computer screen make you feel better? Not really, if you think about it. 

Donna Eckwortzel: And it removes that community aspect of it, too. It removes Which 

Deanna: is really All the personal about therapy.

Jeff Holden: Yep. So Okay, I totally agree. The, the essence of what we do here is 99 percent of the time somebody's in studio because some of the stories are, as we're going to find out, they can be emotional. You're not going to elicit some of these things on a screen. You're not going to share some of the stuff on a screen because you have, you know, a digital wall in front of you.

But when you're immersed with humanity, I mean, there's a warmth that comes off of it, there's a sense of, there's just a vibe, you can tell. 

Anabel: It's 2D versus 3D, [00:14:00] and then our brains are always, our brains are always scanning, right? So in part of us, right, we're saying that isn't safe. 

Donna Eckwortzel: So online, we were a member of EGOLA.

org. That's a lot of our certifications are from there. And then we're also a similar ministry to Crystal Peaks Youth Ranch up in Bend, Oregon, which is also international as well as EGOLA. And we have a lot of relationships now through organizations, CPS, the DA's office, through all the greater Sacramento, greater Northern California communities.

And we'd like 

Jeff Holden: more. And see, that's great. That's terrific. Usually a question that comes up, you're already offering it. It's the collaboration with other organizations to say, we think we might be able to help if you can't get, if everything else isn't working, then consider this. Yeah. Or, or maybe it's even a higher priority because they know that particular client.

Right. Good benefit. 

Donna Eckwortzel: The VA, the Vet Center here in Citrus Heights in Sacramento are great. We just finished a couple of rounds of activity, you know, [00:15:00] sessions with them. So just them learning and, and the, the Vet Center is actually sending three, we found some scholarships for three of the vet therapists to go and get certified in EGALA.

And so that's going to be exciting. Yeah. So we'll be, um. Working continuously more on, on programs, so. But our primary interest has been always with youth. We found that those youths grow up and if they don't get the help early on, it carries through their life. 

Jeff Holden: And what 

Donna Eckwortzel: a sad situation in terms of that baggage that gets carried around.

And yes, it's, you know, something that happened, but it's a way that you can look at it and use it for good or to make a difference in other people's life and not to be ashamed of it, which I definitely want you to make, Talk about that and about so just a lot of different ways, you know, that people will contact and reach out to us word of mouth, a lot of networking and that's, you know, we've become more well known in the last couple of years.

I think even just through the huge, we've been going to talk to a lot of 

Deanna: different people and reaching out to a lot of [00:16:00] different groups and trying to get the words out there. Um, 

Jeff Holden: I think rather than have you explain what happens when somebody comes to the ranch, but since we have Annabelle and Deanna in studio to tell their stories, which are very uniquely different stories, why don't we start there and Deanna, why don't we start with you?

Deanna: Okay. That's where I would have started. We got this, right? Okay. Okay. Okay. Mine is, my story is about my family, but mostly about my granddaughter. She was nine years old when we found out that she had been severely traumatized and molested and victimized, and

the DA's office tried to [00:17:00] help us find counseling. The insurance, we went through the insurance and tried to find counseling. And there's just not much out there for kids. 

Jeff Holden: At 

Deanna: all, anywhere. Doesn't matter if you have insurance or you don't have insurance, it's just not out there. And being post COVID, There was really nothing out there.

Everybody had cut back on hours or as we talked about earlier, gone to video, which was a little nine year old little girl 

Jeff Holden: who 

Deanna: can barely even speak for herself at that point. Wasn't an option. I remembered, like I mentioned earlier, we got a Christmas, my daughter, She's a single mom. She got a Christmas tree through Hearts Landing Ranch a couple of years previous to the trauma.

And you know, when she got it and we found out what the ranch was and you know, never thinking in a million years [00:18:00] that it would be something that our family would ever have to go through. 

Jeff Holden: Right. 

Deanna: And I don't know where, but a couple months after we had been looking and getting nowhere with finding a counselor.

I was just laying in bed and it just like came to me like, Oh my God, that ranch, you know, where we got the tree. What was the name of the ranch? So I went and was looking up everything on Facebook of all things, social media. And I called my daughter right away and I said, I just called the ranch. And she's like, Okay, mom, what ranch, you know?

Mom, remember where you got the Christmas tree, Heartland Ranch? And she's like, yeah. So I left a message. And she goes, why? I said, they do the therapy. I said, they do equine therapy with kids, you know, for what Melody's gone through. And she's like, okay, what do we do now? I said, well, I left a message for Donna.

Well, it only took a few hours, and this amazing woman called me back. And [00:19:00] And I explained the situation, I explained what Melody was going through about my daughter being a single mom and not having, you know, resources. And, you know, I told her that, you know, we had already, we're in the process, all the, the criminal process.

We were going through all that already, but we couldn't find her any help. And I didn't know how much the ranch was. I didn't know how much it was going to cost. And Donna's like, we're not even going to worry about that. She goes, we'll figure all that out. She goes, the first thing we're going to do is we're going to get Melody in here and we're going to get her some help.

And she did. She was there the next week.

And what people don't realize is, you know, therapy starts the first day you walk in. [00:20:00] But it doesn't end, you know, she was nine, you know, this was two years ago. It doesn't end, you know, you do okay for a little bit and like right now she's not doing okay, you know, and it was two years ago. So now we got to go back and kind of start over a little bit again.

But the ranch never left. It hasn't left four generations of my family. Donna has been there for my mom, for me, for my daughter, for my granddaughter, her sister.

My granddaughter is the one that goes to therapy there through a scholarship, thanks to the ranch, which a lot of the kids there are on scholarship because it's not something that's generally funded, you know, through insurance. [00:21:00] Most insurances, you know, don't pay for equine therapy. So, you have to get help.

And Donna's made sure that we've had everything that she's needed. Through everything, whatever kind of therapy she needed. She's been through two different ones already. And Donna brought in an EMDR therapist for her because she needed EMDR. Whatever she's needed, Donna's made sure she's had. I don't know how this miracle worker over here has done everything that she does, but she figures a way to get it done.

Jeff Holden: And what is EMDR? For the benefit of the listener. For 

Deanna: The way it works is she would sit down with this therapist and she would take her, she would build a safe space, like a safe room, a safe place where she is, but she'd ask her what the colors are, what the, You know, what she sees around her making her own little safe space in the world or in, you know, the house or outside or wherever she wanted to be that [00:22:00] day.

And, you know, the sounds, the colors, the smells. And then when she gets there, then she would ask her questions and she would talk to her and she would do the tapping, you know, like tap on her arm or tap on her hand. And get her to think of a bad time. And then, okay, then after the bad time and you talk, you know, but what were the good thing that happened around this same time?

You know, was there a birthday party? Was there an outing you went on? Was there a family experience? Did you have a good day at school? Was there, you know, something, a field trip was there, you know, and you find these good things that go around the bad so that the good kind of overtake some of the bad.

Okay. And then they would, you know, talk about all of the good things and what do you remember about this? And even with the bad person, [00:23:00] you know, was there a good thing that happened with this bad person that would help to not necessarily erase but subside some of the, the hurt and the, the pain? Anger and the depression, and the anxiety and the stress and everything of the situation is that, 

Donna Eckwortzel: I have the definition here.

Sorry. Okay. Thank you. Eye movement desensitization reprocessing. So it's a psychotherapy that enables people to heal from symptoms and emotional distress as a result of their trauma. So it's kind of helping reprogram in a way. Reprogram, desensitize towards. Remember the bad thing 

Jeff Holden: that happened. And it wants you to remember good over bad.

How does that then translate into the equine psychotherapy? 

Deanna: Well, she was, She went through the equine therapy, through over a year of equine [00:24:00] therapy, um, every week 

Jeff Holden: at the ranch. And I'm just imagining for a nine year old child. initially may be a lot of fear and anxiety, but as she gets comfortable with the animals, it softens some of the, the experience of trauma and you engage with the horse to some degree.

Yeah, I saw she 

Donna Eckwortzel: was, it was recommended by the therapist that we had at the time that was doing EAP, Equine Assisted Psychotherapy. That, that was a next step because she was stuck. So when the, when her granddaughter first started coming, um, There was a lot of trauma to the point where she couldn't remember, she would pick the same horse every time she came.

So there was a lot of non talking, but a lot of breathing, relaxation, getting comfortable, and then she got to the point where she could process, you know, some of the things. And then the brain gets to a point where, Okay, we need to shift, and the recommendation from our therapist at the time was that she do a period of EMDR to help her through the process.

I think a 

Deanna: [00:25:00] lot of it too, especially with the equine therapy with the horses, was how Donna and Allie, I think it was Allie, right? Allie was amazing. And, um, Even myself and her mom and her great grandma who was with her a few times Reinforced to her that you know, they were rescued horses and she got to love on the horses so she would pet the horses and feed the horses and be able to hug the horse and She felt I think that like she was giving Something back to the horse that was hurt.

So the horse in turn turns that around and And it gives her the love and it gives her the safety net and the opportunity to feel safe and to feel loved by something. And, you know, the horse is stronger than her, obviously, you know, so it gave her strength to be able [00:26:00] to open up and speak. You know, it was, it wasn't just Allie and her sitting there talking.

It was that she got to love this horse and she got to hug this horse and she got to feel the strength from this horse. that helped her build her own strength so that she could talk and she could open up. And, you know, even to the horse, she could talk to the horse and Ali was there with her. 

Donna Eckwortzel: There's a part where the brain, it's almost easier from people that have suffered trauma and PTSD.

They wish they could have had broken arm or something, you know, because it's easier for people to see that there's hurt and the brain when it's damaged, go through a whole bunch of work that's needed. And I think just to think that you're going to have a one off, you know, time period or one modality is going to, you know, solve everything, right?

The brain needs to process to heal and grieve and mourn, you know, the trauma that [00:27:00] you went through and process that and especially at a young age. So I remember many, many months went by before there was actually speaking that was going on. But one of, the horse that she always picked, which is actually interesting, that was the horse that you worked with, Molly, um, carried, yeah, and about 

Jeff Holden: Annabelle 

Donna Eckwortzel: and 

Jeff Holden: Deanna's granddaughter are working with the same horse, 

Donna Eckwortzel: yeah, that they picked, that picked them, yeah, well you guys, they were picked, so that's interesting, I just thought about that, but Molly carried some pretty heavy burdens.

that were written on the horse. So we do, we create curriculum, you know, when the client is ready, right? In this case, it was very slow process of just her showing up, right. And being there and being present and putting hands on and breathing and feeling safe, right. Because she hadn't felt safe for a while and then actually sharing some of those things.

And I remember the very first time. Um, Allie had asked her, [00:28:00] you know, let's paint on the horse, you know, how people see you. And so, and then on the other horse, she, or on the other side, so once she was done with that side and what she wrote, then she changed to the other side and said, let's, you know, why don't you write down how you see yourself.

And it was one word, and I remember it, it was ugly, and she got to, so it was an exercise, right, that we did. She was at that point where she could, and then she had the operation, so she saw the weight of this thing on the horse, and this horse was carrying this too, and then she also got to wash it off.

You know, and bathe the horse and do the things. And there was just lots of, there's so many other activities that we do that bring about conversation. So they're not just petting the horse. Although, you know, sometimes that's needed at the very beginning or the very beginning. Yeah. But there's, you know, emotional balls where you're, you know, So we work with a whole bunch of balls and you label all the balls with all your different emotions and you run around trying to pick them all up and you realize you can't carry them all.[00:29:00] 

Right? You need other, other entities to help you do that. And so there's curriculum that we actually write. I want to make sure that that's clear and put on the schedule for each person and it changes based on the client because it's all client driven. We might go in there and say, Oh, we, we have this agenda, you know, we're going to do this and that's not the case at all.

The client is the one that knows more than anyone else. What they need and those horses take you places where you're not willing to go yourself or can go by yourself so that's the beauty of that and that's through those process of acting because once you this is what Tim Hayes talks about when You get out of your head and you start physically moving and working you're no longer thinking here You're actually coming You know, from your body.

And that's the thing that's, when you're outside, when you're, you know, sewing, and gardening, and, you know, doing anything that's using your hands, that's a great way to do it. to get out of your head and be present. 

Jeff Holden: I think it's a good point to bring up here as well because you're mentioning the [00:30:00] therapists.

So, there are human therapists as well as opposed to just the horses. So, it's, it's, it's a complex program. And, and you, how many therapists do you have? There's a lot of moving parts. Yes. A lot 

Donna Eckwortzel: of moving parts. Yes. Well, for an equine assisted psychotherapy session, which is called EAP, there's three therapists in entity.

So there's a, an actual therapist, either one of our interns that's going through their practicum or associate and, or a licensed therapist. And then there's an equine specialist, which there's three of us on site now. Myself, I'd say we wear another hat. So I'm the executive director and I'm an equine specialist as well.

Like all a certified and Nicole and Anthony now and a lifesaver. And then we have in 

Jeff Holden: many ways, yes. 

Donna Eckwortzel: Oh, let 

Jeff Holden: me tell you. 

Donna Eckwortzel: So then there's the nine horses. And we can use one or we can use nine, you know, it's the herd depends on the activity that we're doing [00:31:00] and the client is, it's client driven about who they pick, right?

And who they choose to work with. And it's also, it's always part of the story, right? So we, there's for equine assisted psychotherapy, it's a three entity team. So you're paying, you know, you're paying for that, that number of people to show up. And when we do groups or group homes, let's say there's usually another, you know, So, yeah, there's usually many of us on site that are making that beauty happen.

Jeff Holden: And I think that kind of completes the vision of it. Now you realize this isn't just, you know, a nonjudgmental horse to a human, but there's, there's people involved in developing all of this therapy for the benefit of the client. And, and the horse is, the beauty of it is, it's nonjudgmental. Yeah. You know, that's the one, I didn't know you got to write on, literally.

Deanna: They paint on them. Paint 

Jeff Holden: something on the horse like a billboard. We can. 

Donna Eckwortzel: Yeah. But, but I get it. Some people, it's non toxic paint, but I just want to say, [00:32:00] we wash it off. It's horse friendly. Yes. Horse friendly. Animal 

Jeff Holden: friendly. You know, just naively, I can see the value in that, especially the value of being able to wash it off.

It's powerful. And make it go away. 

Donna Eckwortzel: Yeah. Yeah. Um, clients have their story and they know, you know, it comes from a wordless place sometimes and seeing it or physically doing it, give, might give them words or ideas about what's next and then they're always, there's a lot of processing that's going on week to week.

Well, and Donna also does a 

Deanna: calendar every year where she uses clients and horses and the clients pick a word. It's usually in the from the bible. I saw that on the website and it could be courage strength love And then what their meaning is underneath it And they paint it on themselves And it It helps to build their strength and make them, you know, how, what [00:33:00] word can you find that defines you, that gives you strength, that shows what you want, how you've been so that she uses all different kinds of cool things 

Donna Eckwortzel: and there's spots for sponsors on the back 

Deanna: too.

Yes, there is lots of spots. We take sponsors everywhere. Helps with all the scholarships that are needed for the children. Shameless plug. We will touch on that. But also, Well, we all know it costs to do this. But, you know, not only does she take care of all the kids at the ranch, the veterans that come to the ranch, the fire department and their wives that have been to the ranch.

I mean, there's been, you know, Placer County had, we had a group from Placer County that I went and helped Donna with that came to the ranch. through the DA's office. I mean, she does, they do all these different things, but she goes beyond that because yes, there's four therapists that are needed for each or three.

And then occasionally with groups, there's four that are needed along with the horses. But Donna puts herself out [00:34:00] there, you know, she, because my granddaughter is the one that does the counseling. I found that this is my passion, that I'm going to do whatever it takes to help this ranch succeed because of what they've done for my family.

But also because of what she does, she gives of herself 100 percent and she does it for every person in the family, not just the person that's going through therapy. If it's my mother that would show up with Mel Edie. Melody would go to her therapy and because she's a minor, there has to be an adult there.

And so we would, you know, sit in the car. There's hay bales, there's chairs, there's benches, there's whatever you want to sit on out there. There's a garden, you know, go walk around the garden. But Donna was there. each one of us while she was [00:35:00] in therapy, which was helping us. 

Jeff Holden: You know, and, and you also mentioned something, the groups, the fire department, first responders, a lot of PTSD there.

I would imagine, you know, military vets, you were talking about veteran center. When groups like that come in, what, how does that look? 

Donna Eckwortzel: Do you have another show planned?

Well, I mean everyone's different so we just did a fire on fire for marriage for SOC fire departments And we basically just had the couples come and we did some activities that were very profound for them And because there were 20 people and we you know want to have you know And be intentional and be specific with the group.

We actually had two sets of human teams and two sets of yours teams, and then we rotated through. So one group did one activity while the other one did another and then we swapped. That particular one ended with a really nice barbecue and around the fire and even though it was drizzling raining, everyone sat and talked about it and what was most [00:36:00] profound for them and their Relationships, again, going back to we need community and we isolate when we're in pain or something difficult is happening because we're ashamed or we're embarrassed that we can't be strong enough to fix it, was that they all realized that they were not uniquely, what I call uniquely defective.

Almost everyone was going through the same thing. And that was powerful for them to know, okay, we're not abnormal. Right. And, you know, figuring out safe places to be able to have those conversations. So the other feedback was, what are we doing next? So we'll deal with more of that because two of the therapists that we work with, that's a lot of their clients are first responders.

And the number one thing for the firefighters I didn't know was marriage, was really wanting to help with their marriage. I didn't realize that either. And this was, you know, free to them. So 

Jeff Holden: it 

Donna Eckwortzel: was good. 

Jeff Holden: Good. Annabelle. 

Donna Eckwortzel: Yes. 

Jeff Holden: So we, we've heard from Deanna, Deanna was her granddaughter. In this case, it's first person.

It was you. 

Anabel: It was me. 

Jeff Holden: Why don't you tell us your [00:37:00] story? 

Anabel: So Deanna and Donna has explained that there are groups that come to the ranch. And I was actually one of those groups. I am with, I work with the DA's office, the Placer County DA's office. We have a Empowering Resilience Project where it's survivor and victim driven.

And so this group is very, very special. And so. Thank you. We, on one of our meetings, went to Hearts Landing and we wanted to see, like, what the activities were for the clients and whatnot. And so, it was the one where we had the round pen. The egg and spoon. No, this is egg and spoon. Oh, the egg and spoon.

But we were, I felt like we were in the, so someone that doesn't know, right? We were in the pen. 

Jeff Holden: She's a city girl here. I don't go to ranches, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah. 

Donna Eckwortzel: Yeah. She showed up in her cute little suit. Don't mind us. Yeah. And so just to say they wanted to hear all this [00:38:00] head knowledge and what we said is, let's do an exercise.

And 

Anabel: so we, there was exercises where they had placed, you know, so we were to get an egg and the exercise was for us to protect it and label it with what's most precious to us. And for me, it's my kids. I'm tearing up. 

Donna Eckwortzel: Well she, she naively volunteered to be the So the rest of the team created an obstacle course and labeled it.

While this whole time she's, you know, she picked a horse, which was Molly. The horse picked me. Molly picked 

Anabel: me. Oh, okay. I didn't realize. Yeah, because they, there was a group of horses that were there and they had the, the, the bride, the bridal or again, the halter. Think of a halter. I think of a shirt,

but we were to choose one and then just, they showed us how to lead the horses with that. [00:39:00] And, um, Molly chose me, and so we were supposed to go, while protecting this, this egg, we were supposed to go through these courses, and they were labeled, and I zoomed through all of them, because what people didn't realize was that this event took place in June, and when I was 15, I was trafficked, and that happened in May.

And so I've been having, I've been having nightmares for a long time before and after. And so I pushed myself to go to all these meetings and just like pushed all the nightmares away. I wasn't sleeping well. Just stay so 

Jeff Holden: busy that you don't have to think about anything. Mm 

Anabel: hmm. And the horses They felt that.

And during one of the exercises where I'm [00:40:00] holding and cherishing this egg that's labeled my kids. Molly wouldn't budge. She wouldn't budge. She wanted me at this. This poll and I realized that it's in self care, right? No, no grief that it said great you skipped so I skip 

Jeff Holden: Right through that one, right? 

Anabel: I blew through all of them So I don't even remember but I do remember that was grief and then the last one was self care but when I was standing at grief, I Couldn't even look at it without feeling all this emotion And then champs started coming towards me 

Jeff Holden: champs another horse 

Anabel: champs another horse And I was like, oh my gosh, what's going on?

You know because I could feel that they knew they were both looking at me, but they were inching themselves towards me And their their necks actually came like at a cross I guess but they [00:41:00] were Enveloping me and I had not felt that kind of Transcribed Protection, because, you know, I, I wasn't, that was the one thing that I felt was protection.

And the way that they were looking at me was like, it's okay, it's okay to let it all out. And I was just standing there looking at that grief and I was like, oh my God, , I don't wanna be here. And I'm with my team, 

Jeff Holden: I'm with my people. Yes. 

Anabel: I don't want nobody to know this. Right. And they knew some of my story, but not to the extent that I was having these nightmares.

Mm-Hmm. . And they were getting pretty graphic. And that's actually how I had. Come to realize what had actually happened to me was through these nightmares and I don't I push everything aside But always around the same the anniversary Of what happened? It always comes [00:42:00] back always comes back and I will wake up screaming And there's been times that i've actually hit people because i'm trying to get away but when we were processing what was going on.

After I was finally able to feel like, okay, I've processed grief and I'm still like cherishing this egg, you know, so close to me, but we're supposed to not drop it. Right. But yeah, but I, I, there was actually another time that I, I want to say, who was it? Somebody dropped one, but I think it was when they were writing it and we're teasing them and whatnot.

Right. But, you know, I realized like how close I was holding this and how when I was just looking at it and processing grief How how much it was really affecting me? but once I processed and You know was it Nicole? Nicole [00:43:00] was there Nicole was there but there was another therapist that was trying to explain everything like what it was really magical What was happening?

We realized what I had zoomed through and both horses after they started easing up on me But they were both following me. And so I had never experienced anything like that I mean my kids had experienced equine therapy back in 2009, but for me personally that day That night I was able to sleep And I didn't have any nightmares And that meant the world to 

Donna Eckwortzel: me.

Jeff Holden: I'm sure. 

Donna Eckwortzel: Well, and she's a, she's a, a go getter, right? And she's going to make things happen like we all do, right? We just put on whatever we need to, you know, shirt and jacket and face that we need to put on and make it happen, which was so interesting because Molly didn't stop there. one time through any of the offic there were hula hoops on the ground, there were cones on the ground, she had to step over things, but, uh, she [00:44:00] walked right past self care and it wasn't until she got to the straight pole on it that she just put on the, Molly put on the brakes and there was no way Annabelle was going to get her to move and budge and allowed her.

And it was interesting because we're observing in the shade because it was, it was, I mean it was, we had, we let the process go until she was done and there were layers of grief. That you went through and every time she's like, okay, I'm done now kind of pulling yourself back together, right? You know buckling yourself back up.

Okay, you know, I'm embarrassed. I don't want you know, I don't know what was going on You know, okay, I'm done. Let's move on, you know, and then the horse was not budging And then she would allow I was so proud of you for your courage and your vulnerability and your humility because that's what it takes. I think, you know, that's what it takes to do the mourning and the grieving about a lot of things.

Right? Sometimes it's the time that the stuff didn't heal and we, you know, [00:45:00] we're still doing, you know. So. But each time you were like, okay, I'm done now. And you're kind of pulling yourself back together by your, you know, bootstraps. Molly's like, no, no. And at the time where Molly was almost ready to go forward, champion's like, 

Jeff Holden: no, 

Donna Eckwortzel: you guys aren't done yet.

You guys are going to stand here. So the 

Jeff Holden: other horse stopped you. 

Anabel: The other horse stopped me. Both of you. Yeah, both. He said, Nope. I'm not letting both of you because 

Jeff Holden: probably saying no, no, no, this has been enough for her. Yeah. Yeah, she's gonna 

Anabel: break He's like no she's stronger than that. And that's what I felt and The horses can't read So how would they have known that but that's where I said like something magical happened where they felt that coming from me and I, like, I, I just, 

Deanna: it's like their intuition takes over, you know, and they're, they've scanned me too, their intuition takes over and, and [00:46:00] they're there and they're just looking at you and loving you and saying, you can make it through this because you're not alone.

Anabel: Yeah. I'm here. Each time that I visited, they come to me. 

Jeff Holden: So have you now gone through? a program? 

Anabel: She has not. Just that one. And that's where I have to. One hour. Yeah, that was just one hour that changed my whole life. It really did. I was able to, again, Re evaluate and say, okay, I haven't stopped. I haven't been able to heal from this fully yet You know and it's the matter of finding scholarships and also time as well But they get you on that.

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I mean It really took a lot for me to, because right after that, two months later, I was involved in a domestically violent relationship. He had stabbed me. He broke my collarbone. You know, I ended up getting pregnant. So [00:47:00] I realize how much I have not yet been able to heal and then, you know, later coming to find out that, you know, there was an older gentleman that was molesting me as well and I couldn't say anything.

Nobody believed me. This was as a child. No, this is after. Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah. When I was 15, so I was 15. Not after 

Donna Eckwortzel: your experience. No, no, no, no, no. I 

Anabel: was 15. No, no, no, no, no, no, but there was all of these vulnerabilities, right? That predators saw me as and still kept coming after me. And that's why with the horses.

That protection even when I was going through all of that through all of the emotions my mind I was going back to those moments, but the horses were there and again, I would never have known that was like the curriculum The horses don't read [00:48:00] curriculum either But that is what ended up happening was they allowed me to go to those deep dark places even where I didn't want to go to but And they allowed me to just say, okay, you know what, you can sit there and process it, but we are here.

And that's what I felt. 

Deanna: You know, and something else that you had mentioned about, have you gone, you know, to through a program and stuff at the ranch? It's not even so much going through a whole program at the ranch. Like I personally haven't been through a program at the ranch per se. However, 

Jeff Holden: Melody has, Melody 

Deanna: is, is still there.

And, but something Donna and I were talking about on the way here today is, you know, the word grief carries heavy. And when something happens to you, to your children, to your [00:49:00] grandchildren, your friend, your family, it doesn't have to directly happen to you. Your way of healing, my way of healing, something I've chosen to do to help myself get through the guilt for not seeing it, the not under, not stopping it, you know, that, you know, as a grandparent, is working with this ranch.

And it's not necessarily that I have to go to counseling with the ranch. I have Donna. 

Donna Eckwortzel: Donna has me. And I think that's the interesting thing of when we isolate and feel ashamed. Because I think that was even just you coming to the ranch to share your testimony during our strength training. You know, you guys were there volunteering, right, Deanna, and you said something really profound and you guys, before we started and went on air, you had turned to Annabelle and said, my granddaughter heard you.[00:50:00] 

And, and, um, and that was really powerful for, for us. For these young, for these young people and one of the things that you said that was really powerful Annabelle was The shame needs to go back to the people or the the guilt or whatever you we don't need to be ashamed of what? Happened to me. I didn't do this, right?

But we for some reason we take that on and you put it back where it needs to go and you know The ability to grieve or mourn is the process of sharing the story, right? And we do that in community with each other, right? 

Jeff Holden: We'll be back with more amazing stories of what these horses can accomplish right after this.

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Individual or family, you can find more at WesternHealth. com. Well, and I think that's a good segue to the next question. And both of you, Deanna and Annabel, thank you so much for just having the courage to share that. That's not easy. And to your point of the ranch being your place of catharsis, you know, so is this.

You know, the ability, the more story, the more time you can share it, you know, the more people you know you can help as a result of it. You know, it takes that negative into a positive because it's, it's, it's a good feeling. 

Anabel: Right. And again, it's to make sure that [00:53:00] when we share our stories, we are no longer carrying that with us and the shame, the, you know, and what I said was to put the shame and blame back on the perpetrators where they belong.

Because In the culture that we live in, we don't want to air out our dirty laundry, but that's not our dirty laundry. We didn't do anything. They're victims. Yeah, it was the perpetrators. And so they're walking around as though there's You know, they don't have a care in the world, but yet we're the ones that are carrying that shame.

So, I'm proud of you. Thank you. 

Donna Eckwortzel: Yep. You still showed up in little slippers. Again. We're going to have to make you a farm girl. And 

Jeff Holden: I would imagine to the point of when you have some of these groups come through, The unintentional consequence, these are, you know, you're disarmed, you're coming in, okay, I'm going to go see this horse thing, it's kind of cool, let's go, you know, right?

Yeah. And, oh, of course, this is the DA, we've sent it from, it's there all the time. It must, it's, it's a good program [00:54:00] until you trip into it and you realize, oh my gosh, it's me. 

Anabel: It's, 

Donna Eckwortzel: yeah. And how powerful it is. Don, I would imagine you see that 

Jeff Holden: more. 

Donna Eckwortzel: Oh, that's what happens because most people have not been in an environment where you're working in an.

You know, with the horses or being around them or the activities and, you know, hardened gang members, you know, realize that they can belong to something else other than a gang when they realize, you know, the, the safety there too, but it, it is uncomfortable for many people. And so because of your outside of your comfort zone, now you're unmasked, right?

You don't have this. Right. I'm going to make this happen, right? And the horses provide a backdrop for that. So it's no longer someone, let's say it was a friend, even a good friend of yours that said, no, let's stop here and talk about grief. And let's say I was that friend. You could be angry with me or say, no, I don't need to be able to do that or whatever.

Especially not 

Jeff Holden: in front of everybody. Yeah. And with my group of peers. Right. Yes. Workmates. Or even in 

Donna Eckwortzel: a, in a room where you're talking about that. I mean, we, there is [00:55:00] pride and ego. I mean. Lord, forgive us for that, right? And it creates, we need some vulnerability and, and humility to be able to do that. But there's a lot of ego and pride that gets in the way, and I'm not saying anything bad about you.

No, no, no. Me too. Yeah. No, that's 

Anabel: the way we are. No, that was where I didn't want anybody to see the true aspect of what was happening to me internally. 

Donna Eckwortzel: Yeah. 

Anabel: I mean, who wants to open up about that? Yeah. Sexual drama. Right. Right. I mean, really? 

Deanna: Right. I mean, it's a taboo subject, right? Right. The society has made it a taboo subject.

Donna Eckwortzel: So, we see that all the time. And, you know, because people are outside of their comfort zone and the activities are designed to get them out of their head and moving and working, you know, together. So, um, whether it's individuals or groups, you know, teen groups, group homes, or even like we did that day. The DA's office.

Yeah. The DA's office, team building. Mm hmm. You know, it's, it's gets people away from what they're normally 

Jeff Holden: used 

Donna Eckwortzel: to doing. 

Jeff Holden: Did you find a different appreciation amongst your teammates as a result? Oh, they saw, 

Anabel: yes, [00:56:00] absolutely. So we have the, the ENR, the Empowering Resilience Project falls under the Placer Justice Foundation nonprofit of the DA's office.

And we are working to funnel. Funding towards Heart's Landing because of that, they, they knew about it, but to actually see it firsthand, they saw like the power of what even just one hour did for me. Can you imagine for a child that is still processing me as an adult, you know, I'm able to come to terms with it sometimes, but with a child they let loose and then they feel that from the horse and the healing that can come from that.

Yep. 

Donna Eckwortzel: And it's certainly not the answer to every, you know, as we were just talking about, it's a lifetime process. I think all of us need support even when, you know, we haven't gone through something like you guys have gone through. We all need that community and support around us and even more [00:57:00] reason to support the people that have been.

you know, victimized and need some extra support. Well, and you've touched on 

Deanna: it some too where you know, the people at the ranch, yeah, sometimes you'll see bruises, physical bruises. You know, but society as a whole. You know, they don't, they don't see what's happening inside of you. They don't see the anxiety, that PTSD, the depression, the 

Jeff Holden: anger, you know, and nobody wants to see it.

We do our best to cover that up. Yeah, 

Deanna: exactly. And so it's like, let's just push it aside, you know, let's just forget about it. Just don't deal with it. 

Jeff Holden: You 

Deanna: know, where the people that are going through it. They really need to deal with it. Well, the people that have gone through this, that have gone through the PTSD, the vets, the, that have seen what they've seen out there, the first responders, the children.

The internal trauma that you can't see. [00:58:00] That's just as bad as if not sometimes. Worse than somebody that has a physical trauma And it shouldn't be a taboo subject. It should be something that People can talk about with you know, it's something that needs to be talked about it needs to be put out there because That's the only way people are going to get help.

Agreed. Brave people. 

Jeff Holden: Agreed. 

Deanna: Courageous people. 

Jeff Holden: Yep. So, your therapists eat a lot. 

Donna Eckwortzel: Oh. 

Jeff Holden: They're very expensive therapists. Very expensive. How is the ranch funded? 

Donna Eckwortzel: Well, we have private donations. We do have some private paying clients. So, we, you know, we do work with organizations and people that do that. And then 70 percent, over 70 percent of our clients are scholarships.

So, maybe, and it could be a partial scholarship. So, insurance does pay a little bit, not necessarily towards equine assisted psychotherapy, but towards a therapist. So, it's billed like that and so if our therapists take that insurance, then that's great. We don't take [00:59:00] insurance as Heartland and Ranch. I'm not a therapist.

Just make sure that's clear. And, and then there might be a, you know, let's say, you know, part is paid by insurance, part is paid by the individual and part is paid by scholarship here or sometimes we'll just have all scholarship. We do have some skin in the game. We've learned over the years that it does help even, you know, people to have, you know, some contribution, you know, to that, but you know, our wonderful donors are wonderful volunteers that help take care of some things that we don't have to necessarily pay for.

So we do keep our costs down. We do get some grants and some wonderful people out there that do that. We have Lions. Yes, real estate. They just gave us a Cares Foundation. And then we have agents that sometimes a portion of their commissions come back to us. A lot of people, Creative Ways, stock, you know, all kinds of things.

We are looking to expand our footprint and our number of people. So we do about 2, 300 hours of therapy services on an annual basis. We'd like to double that. I mean, so there's a five year vision. And we'd like to accelerate that [01:00:00] because You know, to be honest, it's dark right now in terms of the things that you were talking about.

It's only getting darker. And so the five year plan, while it seems like it's hefty for us to double what we're currently doing, we need to accelerate that. So there's a sense of urgency to do that. So part of it is, you know, we've been almost all volunteer run. I was a volunteer up until. Um, March. 

Jeff Holden: Oh. I'm only getting 

Donna Eckwortzel: paid after 10 years.

And, but we do need more people, you know, there's, you know, a sense of urgency to actually hire the type of people that we need to have on site that we can run multiple sessions at the same time. Mm hmm. And then we need cover. We, you know, we work. all year round and it's hot out there all day long or it's cold.

We don't stop because of that. So, we need, we need some infrastructure that's, that's there. So, we'd like to, you know, if we're staying where we are, we'd like to expand to neighboring properties. Three of them are for sale right now. And we'd like to, yes, three now. Praise God. I know. So, I'm like, okay, Lord, if you want this to happen, you will make it happen.

So, it's [01:01:00] either there on that property and we, That's great. And I think it's a great opportunity for us to, you know, acquire some additional land, which, you know, makes some additional things happening, or, you know, and we continue to build that out and put some covered space on there. So if anyone has 3 million, come on, come on over and help us create an arena and some office space where we work out of a, tough shed.

That's the only source of only source of air conditioning. And we need to grow that because when we were doing EMDR, we'd have to clear out the whole entire office. And so we do need some extra space. So we do have a plan that's been sketched out and done that. But you know, we're right in the middle of Granite Bay and we're easily accessible by the Highway 50 corridor, Highway 80 corridor.

Sacramento. We'd like to stay in that area. We'd love to have 10 or 20 acres, honestly. And there are different horse ranches that operate in two locations. And so we're just praying, you know, that people come forward. So there are other scholarships, but the big picture is that [01:02:00] we're going to double what we're doing.

We're going to take back, you know, people and, and, you know, be able to provide the resources that they need to have to get them a start where they need to go. We don't think we're, As I said, the end all to everything. I think it's a community that comes along with all the different tools and resources that we have to be able to offer support, but we'll do it.

And we know that God has a plan for us to, you know, have the environment that he wants us to be working in, but we use it all. 

Jeff Holden: And you touched on a couple of things throughout of the discussion, the faith based element of the ranch. Yep. In just a couple minutes, can you share a little bit about what that is, how it came to be?

It's not just Heartslanding, but there's, there's a lot of faith involved. You know, there's a lot of prayer. There's a lot of belief. 

Donna Eckwortzel: Well, it's faith and belief that brought us there, right? I was not looking for to do this and it was just, it was our ability to say, yes, you know, I thank God for not sending me to the trash heaps of the Philippines or the, you know, Congo or something like that.

All the way back to your 

Jeff Holden: [01:03:00] first exposure with the horse. All the way to my first exposure to the 

Donna Eckwortzel: horse. Yeah. And it was an interesting transition because we still have a rental vacation, rental property where we moved from, you know, five minutes away and, It was with faith because it really showed us clearly who was with us and who was not with us.

And the Lord stayed with us and it helped me understand when you see trauma like this level, it doesn't make sense until you really understand, you know, that there's evil in the world. God doesn't make it happen. But then how do you work with people to help them understand that they are uniquely and wonderfully made and that God has a purpose even in some of these difficult things that happened that were caused by other humans.

That there's a purpose for that and it's telling your testimony and story and being brave so that you can lead the way for others and it shed light in a dark, really, really dark place and be there. You know, 2013 things were humming along. People were happy in their [01:04:00] lifestyle and we were uniquely placed at that, you know, during the pandemic where we just, you know, we couldn't, we didn't have, there was not enough time in the day to be able to do what we do today.

What we do and thank God for, you know, local communities and people that volunteer to come alongside, you know, to build the place up and put in, you know, arena lights, you know, and things like that. So there's no, I was led there by the Lord to start this ranch and it's through him that we are here. Being sustained and maintained because otherwise I could not put my head around the evil that happens Until I put it through the light of like the work that we're trying to do There and to come alongside people to show them that God will will use the damage that's done in their life to actually inspire And help other people and also redeem them, 

Anabel: but as an additional layer, you're also giving the horses and another chance Yeah, 

Jeff Holden: so it's it's a full circle.

It is actually a full circle and to your point. Thank God that you [01:05:00] exist Yeah. Because look at the support and the help that you're providing to the community. 

Deanna: Absolutely. So, Deanna. No, we'd be lost without her. 

Jeff Holden: Well, Deanna, thank, thank you for, for your story. Thank you for having us. And Annabelle, amazing courage.

And I, I've seen you tell your story because I was at the ranch for the, the spring event. Yep. And so I, I, Literally saw you and it was warm. It was a hot day. That wasn't 

Deanna: even summer. 

Jeff Holden: From a standpoint of what you're doing Donna, I mean, without a doubt the program is one of the most unique we've had and probably will be for some time.

But You know, using, you know, rescued horses to support people who need rescue is, it's just, it's just amazing. It's amazing what you do. And from a standpoint of, you know, the ability to get the funding, you know, I hope this helps and gets the message out a little bit differently. 

Scott Thomas: Me too. [01:06:00] 

Jeff Holden: Yeah. Thank you so much for what you do and for your team, your human team and your, you know, for hoofed team because it really is, it's, it's amazing.

So we appreciate you. 

Donna Eckwortzel: Yeah. Thanks for coming out to the stampede and any other, other event that we have and people can go on and find us on all kinds of, you know, resources to hear about our upcoming events. If, if 

Jeff Holden: they do, what is the website? Where do they find you? 

Donna Eckwortzel: Heartlandingranch. com. So heart, like the heart in your chest.

Landing, L A N D I N G, ranch. com. 

Jeff Holden: Ladies, thank you very much. Thank you for having us. for 

Donna Eckwortzel: doing this work and for getting this word out there. Thank you.

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