House of JerMar

Not So Fast: A Smarter Approach to Intermittent Fasting Benefits That Last

• Jeanne Collins • Season 1 • Episode 40

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Imagine being free to skip meals without feeling hangry, irritable, or exhausted. What if your brain could actually function better when you're not constantly digesting food? In this eye-opening conversation with Marisa Moon, National Board Certified Health Coach and #1 ranked Intermittent Fasting Coach since 2018, we explore how fasting works as a "hormetic stressor" - similar to exercise - that triggers beneficial cellular adaptations.

Marisa shares her personal journey from struggling with undiagnosed IBS and ADHD to discovering how intermittent fasting dramatically improved her brain function. "I was like, okay, my brain needs all this blood flow, oxygen and resources and it's very demanding when I'm working. But if I'm digesting food, all this blood flow and oxygen and resources going into my GI tract and my stomach, and so no wonder, after I eat I'm checked out." This insight led her to develop the RESET method outlined in her bestselling book "Not So Fast."

Rather than diving into extreme fasting protocols that lead to misery and eventual abandonment, Marisa advocates a gradual, flexible approach that trains your body to become "metabolically flexible" instead of remaining a "sugar burner" dependent on constant carbohydrate intake. We explore how sleep quality, stress management, and dietary variety are crucial components of successful fasting, along with practical advice on what you can consume during fasting windows (hint: your coffee options are more varied than you might think).

Whether you're interested in weight management, mental clarity, or simply breaking free from constant food obsession, this conversation offers a refreshing, science-based perspective that puts you in control. As Marisa explains, "You're going to start living healthier and making healthier choices and because you get healthier, you're going to lose weight." Discover how to make intermittent fasting a sustainable, rewarding part of your lifestyle without suffering or deprivation.

Marisa's book recommendation: Beyond Mars and Venus by John Gray

More about Marisa:

Marisa Moon is a National Board-Certified Health and Wellness Coach, Primal Health Coach Advanced Expert, and the intermittent fasting expert at MarisaMoon.com. Ranked by Google search as the #1 Intermittent Fasting Coach since 2018, Marisa recently published a #1 New Release and Amazon bestseller in 2024 titled “Not So Fast: The Smarter More Gradual Approach to Intermittent Fasting Benefits That Last.” 
 
Marisa is recognized as a leading expert in the fasting community, especially when it comes to flexible intermittent fasting strategies that work for real life. Through her relatable coaching style, Marisa helps frustrated dieters put an end to the confusion about what’s healthy and finally experience results that last.

Website: MarisaMoon.com 
 
Order ‘Not So Fast’ on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Not-So-Fast-Approach-Intermittent/dp/B0CTD91WNC/ 
 
Free Download of The RESET Manual to start and succeed with Intermittent Fasting MarisaMoon.com/iffreedom 
 
Work with Marisa (affordable 1-on-1 coaching): https://www.marisamoon.com/private-health-coaching

Instagram @marisa_moon_ 
 
Facebook: Marisa Moon Wellness 

Linkedin: marisa-moon

House of JerMar:
Learn more on our website: houseofjermar.com.

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Subscribe to our YouTube Channel: youtube.com/@Houseofjermar

Read Jeanne's Book: Two Feet In: Lessons From and All-In Life

WELCOME TO OUR HOUSE!

Speaker 1:

Intermittent fasting is like exercise. They're both hormetic stressors, meaning they stress the body in a way that promotes beneficial adaptations on a cellular level, and when you don't push it too hard and don't stress the body too much, you will always get benefits from it. So they're in the same class of intervention and therapy. Exercise in intermittent fasting, many others as well, like infrared therapy or cold plunges or cryotherapy, or even antioxidants and certain plant compounds. They stress the body slightly so that you get these beneficial reactions that promote a better, thriving human.

Speaker 1:

So, drawing all these correlations between exercise and fasting, I'm like no wonder fasting can help you with your brain, your mental health, your energy and mental clarity. It can even help you preserve lean muscle tissue and amplify the effects of your workout. So I started to really see that, without a doubt, you can achieve some of the benefits of a keto diet or some of the benefits of exercise, which have both been proven therapies for ADHD, and you can do that with intermittent fasting instead or in addition to those other therapies, and that's what we need. Adhd folks or anyone looking to overcome brain fog, we need more options. We need more things to experiment with, because we sometimes feel like we've tried it all and that we're like helpless. But really there are so many ways that we can improve the way our body functions in this like incredible cascade of chemical reactions that we can, you know, initiate through something like fasting.

Speaker 2:

Welcome to the House of Germar podcast where wellness starts within.

Speaker 2:

The House of Germar podcast where wellness starts within. The House of Germar is a lifestyle brand empowering women to live all in through interior design and personal wellness. We are a destination for women ready to reimagine what is possible in their homes and lives and then create it. We are honored to have you join us on our mission to empower 1 million women to live all in. I am your host, jean Collins, and I invite you to become inspired by this week's guest.

Speaker 2:

Welcome to the House of Germar podcast where wellness starts within. I'm your host, jean Collins, and today's guest. We are going to talk about something I am so passionate about health, wellness and intermittent fasting. Today's guest is Marisa about something I am so passionate about health, wellness and intermittent fasting. Today's guest is Marisa Moon. I am so excited to have her on the show. I normally don't read people's bios, but I don't want to get this wrong because this is so impressive, so give me a moment to read a little bit about Marisa. So she's a National Board Certified Health and Wellness Coach, a primal health coach and advanced expert in intermittent fasting. She's an expert at marissamooncom. Get this guys. She's ranked by Google search as the number one intermittent fasting coach since 2018. She recently published a number one new release in Amazon bestseller in 2024, titled Not so Fast the Smarter, more Gradual Approach to Intermittent Fasting Benefits that Last Guys. That is a very impressive list. Number one on Amazon. Hard Marisa, welcome to the show.

Speaker 1:

Thank you so much. Wow, you're really giving me this glow that I need to come in strong. Thank you so much.

Speaker 2:

Well, when I was doing some research and I have bought your book, so, by the way, everybody, this, this is the book, this is no joke. It's 450 pages about intermittent fasting I was a little scared at first, because I do fast. So I was like, wow, there's that much that I don't know, was the first thing that I thought is there's a lot that I don't know if it's in the 450 pages. But also, while I was doing some research about you before this show, I was like, wow, you're interested in so many things just from a health perspective, a nutrition perspective, gut health, understanding our bodies, understanding where we came from and taking it back to basics that I thought, wow, I'm going to have a hard time keeping this under an hour, guys, because there's so much that I could talk to her about, but I'm going to do my best. So, to kick it off, I love to share how people got to where they are. So how did you get interested in health and nutrition and your own personal wellness?

Speaker 1:

Yes, I was struggling with IBS. It was undiagnosed irritable bowel syndrome. I had all these embarrassing symptoms around the age 28 in a relationship, dating my now husband and he's a physician and I was like really embarrassed to talk to him about this. But I was like, hey, do you know why I'm having all these issues? It was embarrassing because we were dating and I was having like gas that clears the room and, like you know, I didn't want to be intimate, I didn't know if I was gonna have to go to the bathroom or not. Like it was like an urgent situation. It was awful and it makes you feel gross and not pretty and you start to really like hate your body.

Speaker 1:

It was just a horrible experience and I was already into like holistic health a little bit just out of my personal curiosity and interest, but I decided he didn't know, he was like I have no idea, like I cannot even begin to help you and because of my interest in food and and health and stuff, I just kind of decided I'm gonna search to see if there's like a podcast about IBS or about health that I can learn something about how your diet affects your digestive tract and at the time, like gut health and all that wasn't really like a topic this is a long time ago. So luckily I found these super awesome holistic nutritionists that were introducing to me to the gut microbiome and how we're developing a lot more food sensitivities these days and through a series of episodes and listener calls I realized I could possibly have a food sensitivity, primarily concerned about gluten and dairy, which were the most common intolerances that people were calling about. With the symptoms that I had, I did not like the idea of giving up either of those foods, whatsoever.

Speaker 1:

I mean, I'm a foodie, I love food and it's a big part of my life always has been and I was like I can't even believe I'm entertaining this idea. But I was desperate. So I decided to try going gluten-free and I said I'll just try it for two weeks. Nobody has to know, except for my boyfriend, and I will just see what happens. If it doesn't work, then fine, I don't have to tell anyone. It was immediately relieving my symptoms. It was so impactful.

Speaker 1:

It was scary too, because I was like, oh my God, does this mean I can never have gluten again? I have a pretty severe intolerance. Luckily, I only had to get rid of dairy for a short time. I have an absolutely healthy tolerance and zero sensitivities to it now, but I had a leaky gut. That's usually what's at the root of a lot of food intolerances or autoimmune issues and gut problems, and so I had some healing to do, and it led me to the paleo diet, the primal blueprint and that whole field of ancestral health, and I decided to become a health coach. I was a career bartender at the time and I knew that wasn't going to last much longer, you know the hours Interesting dichotomy there.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1:

And I was like I know I want something else in my life, but I find bartending so fun and the money so great. It was hard to leave. And then, when I became passionate about nutrition, this idea of a health coach came about. It was like 2013 or so, so I was a food blogger, blogging about my gluten-free recipes and my experience, so that kind of paved the way for me to share my thoughts and ideas about food and nutrition in a very roundabout way. That has landed me here.

Speaker 2:

Wow, that is so great. And you do still have a blog and you still have recipes. What made you go from like, okay, I'm going to do this for myself, because I need to learn. I need to learn how to cook, I need to learn how to eat differently to. I want to become a coach and help other people, cause that is, that's a leap.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I mean, I've always been in the service business, service industry or hospitality or something along those lines. Working with people is like a no brainer for me. It's like yes, absolutely, and I'm also, you know, very compassionate and curious person. I like to understand all perspectives, and so it was not even really a question as to whether I would like to coach someone. It was just is that a thing, and will people pay for it?

Speaker 1:

Of course that was a concern it didn't exist before, you know, this really started to emerge in the industry. So I was like my husband actually, who was my boyfriend at the time was like, hey, you're already reading about all this stuff for fun. So you know, why not just take the certification course? Because it was by Mark Sisson, the Primal Blueprint author, and I was already like reading everything he wrote and he founded the Primal Health Coach Institute. And so, Eric, my husband's like, why don't you just go for the certification? If you never do anything with it? You're not really losing anything, it's already something you're passionate about, so you might as well do it.

Speaker 1:

And I'm so glad he put it that way, because I was like getting flashbacks to college and like I dropped out of college three times, Like I was like, oh no, the school thing, I can't do it, you know. But it was. He was right, it was something I was like naturally driven to do and you know, I didn't have to take all these prerequisite courses. It was just like, hey, let's learn more about something you already love.

Speaker 2:

It makes such a difference, doesn't it, when you can do something you love. Now, when did intermittent fasting come onto the scene for you?

Speaker 1:

Oh gosh. So I was intermittent fasting personally because I wanted to figure out how to have better brain power and performance. Trying to build a business or blog. I was struggling with my ADHD brain. Right around the same time I had IBS problems. I had discovered I have ADHD, which explained why I dropped out of college three times. Nobody knew that's what was going on. So intermittent fasting helped me have better mental clarity so that I could actually show up for myself and my goals and like follow through and deliver on some of these ideas that I have.

Speaker 1:

I'm just an endlessly creative, idea-oriented person but you know, action and follow through it can be really challenging for me and other individuals with our brains, our individuals with our brains. So intermittent fasting was immediately rewarding. I was like, oh my God, this is like second nature already. I didn't overthink it. I didn't even feel like I needed to learn much about it. Once I learned about it from a primal perspective because it was in my education from the Primal Health Coach Institute and it's in the primal blueprint and all that I was like, okay, that makes sense. But I wasn't interested yet because I was like I love food. I love eating, I don't want to skip meals. That sounds like it sucks. But then, once I made the connection to my brain, I was like, okay, my brain needs all this blood flow, oxygen and resources and it's very demanding when I'm working. But if I'm digesting food, all this blood flow and oxygen and resources going into my GI tract and my stomach, and so no wonder, after I eat I'm like checked out. I don't want to do my work, I'm done Like I'm just done. I cannot force myself to do it.

Speaker 1:

So intermittent fasting was appealing to me, finally, because I wanted to help my ADD and it worked. So I eventually started teaching it because I was actually going into coaching with a specialty in gut health. But my plans were derailed by some businessman who called me and said I found you on the health coach directory and I want you to help me build this big business that's going to be financial wellness and health and wellness combined and you can be our head health coach. And I was just like, oh my God, this is amazing. I was like a new health coach at the time. I felt so excited. But he turned out to be a mental health case. He warned me that he had issues, but I didn't know that they were going to be that severe. Like I'm not even kidding, it was like so traumatic he made a suicide video on Facebook live.

Speaker 2:

Oh no, and one of the fellow coaches that was in our.

Speaker 1:

you know our organization said you need to go on Facebook live right now. I'm seriously concerned and you know the police came and everything during the Facebook live. I reported it. It was like so traumatizing for me because I had wasted like four months in the like ideas phase trying to like build this business with this person and you know I felt like I wasted time and I was an idiot for falling for all of the sales and idea you know, tactics he used.

Speaker 1:

But the reason I'm telling all that drama is because if it wasn't for that, I never would have decided to be an intermittent fasting coach. I would have been trying to be a gut health coach, which is really broad, honestly, and very challenging to do. And so at that time, when I was really down in the dumps after the whole video and everything, I was like I need to start over. And so at that time, when I was really down in the dumps after the whole video and everything, I was like I need to start over. And I had already done a presentation on my step-by-step approach to intermittent fasting and people gave me a lot of response for that.

Speaker 1:

For the first time out of any of the presentations I had done, they were like are you recording it? When are you going to do it again? And I was like what? I mean? This was a long time ago. I don't nobody knew about intermittent fasting. I was shocked that anybody even cared. So that was a sign to me. I was like I already have like this step-by-step system. Let me just put it into Kajabi and make it an online course and see what happens. And I called myself an intermittent fasting coach and that's how I became the number one ranked Google search for intermittent fasting coach since 2018. It was because at that time, nobody was an intermittent fasting coach, nobody was calling themselves that, and I was the first one to establish myself with that title. It's amazing.

Speaker 2:

I love it, but it shows like, outside of you being a coach and an intermittent fasting person, from an entrepreneur perspective, it shows you just stepping into who you really are and what you're passionate about and stepping into that role, instead of waiting for someone to sort of crown you with that role. Stepping into that role entrepreneurs and we often talk about jumping before you're ready and don't wait until you feel like you have every box checked to put yourself out into the world with your experience and your expertise, and so your story aligns with that beautifully. Oh, I'm so glad you shared that part. Wow, and it gives you a niche too, which is very in the world of holistic health and nutrition. I mean, there are a lot of those like you mentioned gut know in the world of holistic health and nutrition. I mean there are a lot of those like you mentioned gut health. There's a lot of that. This gives you a very specific niche by being an expert in intermittent fasting.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and trust me, I was like how much could there really be to learn or to coach about intermittent fasting and my mind?

Speaker 2:

was continuously blown.

Speaker 1:

Yes, I was like, oh my God, I never thought I would still be interested in the topic now or that I would still want to coach the same thing, but it is. It's so incredibly nuanced and unique to each person's circumstances that are always changing, because we're always changing, and that's how it turned into a book of that size. First, I will say that I formatted it for the ADHD brain, so I took a lot of that size. First, I will say that I formatted it for the ADHD brain, so I took a lot of liberties in the formatting that were a trade-off. Instead of having a shorter book, I sacrificed that appeal, that visual appeal of a shorter book, so that I could have double spacing between every single paragraph, so I could have tons of bulleted lists, so I could have lots of subtitles and bolded font and things that make it easier to read and grasp this dense content.

Speaker 1:

And I achieved that. And so, even though it can be intimidating at first, I mean, hey, if you look at the reviews, they tell you too it is so easy to read. And I did it like that intentionally and it ended up being really what I hoped it would be. So I'm proud to say that it happened especially with ADHD. I wrote a book what the heck.

Speaker 2:

Anything is possible, folks. Well, and it's funny that you mentioned that, because I don't have ADHD but when I started to read your book and we talked about this before we started recording I was like at first, you know, like, oh, my goodness, there's so much. But before we started recording, I was like at first, you know, like, oh, my goodness, there's so much. But when you look through the table of contents and the different chapters, I was like, okay, this starts to make sense.

Speaker 2:

You kept the chapters really short and I even said to you like you have lots of bold so it's really easy to find, like the key points of the pages. You have lots of bullet points, lots of steps, like it's very, very easy to read. You have pictures, diagrams, so it's really easy to follow on a subject of nutrition which can be very scientifically dense, and you have definitely brought it down to like the lay person's terms, which I commend you for that, which is amazing. So I want to talk about two things, because you mentioned something in the beginning and I never would have thought of this. So I really, out of my own personal curiosity, you mentioned trying intermittent fasting for your brain health and I started intermittent fasting for my waist and for losing weight. Know who does it does it for that reason also. So would you mind spending a couple of minutes talking about the brain component, because I think that's really fascinating and something I had never heard of.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I mean, it really is a fact that most people come to intermittent fasting because they want to lose weight. But I just started piecing together, like I said, what I know about what my brain needs and what I know about my demands for digestion and how they would be competing, and so I was teaching flexible intermittent fasting because it worked better for my ADHD and because I could leverage it to get more done at times that I actually needed it and that allowed me to create a very flexible intermittent fasting, step-by-step protocol, which differentiated me in my industry. And it also was really pivotal because I was finally coming out about ADHD. I was never talking about it before. So then it turned into this whole thing, like people want more information. I'm speaking on ADHD summits and I'm coaching ADHD clients specifically who are coming to me because I'm finally disclosing my struggles with ADHD.

Speaker 1:

So in that process I started to research a lot more about things that could potentially support this theory and I also had a brain scan done it's called EEG brain mapping because I was like, hey, I'm writing this theory. And I also had a brain scan done it's called EEG brain mapping because I was like, hey, I'm writing this book I would like to sort of validate my theory if I could. And I found a guy in Chicago, dr Sam Afara from Synapse Chicago, and he did two brain mapping sessions on me in a row and I was fasted for the first one on no ADHD medication, and then I ate a salad that I made homemade dressing, all the good nutrition and ingredients in there, and then 30 minutes after I ate he did another brain mapping session to compare and he was quite shocked that it was very clear my ADHD was far exacerbated and my ability to concentrate, my irritability levels, my likelihood of feeling depressed and unmotivated all of that was so greatly impacted just because I ate, had this instinct that that's what was going on. But it kind of goes against a lot of the things that we learn about your brain needing food and lots of snacks and you know you getting energy from that and you can't focus because maybe you didn't eat enough. Like it just was really contradicting to me and I'm so glad that I did that and took like just sort of had the courage to like see where it took me, because then I really connected the dots and it's like we already have all of the evidence that this is good for the brain.

Speaker 1:

I mean, intermittent fasting is like exercise. They're both hormetic stressors, meaning they stress the body in a way that promotes beneficial adaptations on a cellular level, and when you don't push it too hard and don't stress the body too much, you will always get benefits from it. So they're in the same class of intervention and therapy. Exercise and intermittent fasting. Many others as well, like infrared therapy or cold plunges or cryotherapy, or even antioxidants and certain plant compounds. They stress the body slightly so that you get these beneficial reactions that promote a better, thriving human. So I'm drawing all these correlations between exercise and fasting.

Speaker 1:

I'm like no wonder fasting can help you with your brain, your mental health, you know, your energy and mental clarity.

Speaker 1:

It can even help you preserve lean muscle tissue and amplify the effects of your workout.

Speaker 1:

So I started to really see that, without a doubt, you can achieve some of the benefits of a keto diet or some of the benefits of exercise, which have both been proven therapies for ADHD, and you can do that with intermittent fasting instead or in addition to those other therapies, and that's what we need. Adhd folks or anyone looking to overcome brain fog, we need more options, we need more things to experiment with, because we sometimes feel like we've tried it all and that we're like helpless. But really there are so many ways that we can improve helpless. But really there are so many ways that we can improve the way our body functions in this like incredible cascade of chemical reactions that we can, you know, initiate through something like fasting. And it doesn't have to be hard, like the internet makes it sound. You don't have to, you know, just drink water or fast 18 hours, or you know there's so many different ways you can make it your own 18 hours or you know, there's so many different ways you can make it your own, so fascinating.

Speaker 2:

And you do talk about how to make it easy. So let's talk about your. Reset is the acronym that you have in your book. So talk about RESET and kind of the steps that you recommend people take and consider if they want to start becoming curious about intermittent fasting.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, reset is an evolution from the original step-by-step method I was teaching. It's how anyone can safely start or restart with intermittent fasting with the greatest likelihood of turning it into a long-term lifestyle. And the reason that it's safe for anyone to try is because it starts with 12 hours and then you are gradually introducing other elements of the reset method to determine what is working for you and how to customize it for your needs. The reset method in the manual, by the way, anybody can get on my website. I'm sure you're going to give them that link and it is the backbone of this book. I mean, that's where the entire book came from is the RESET method.

Speaker 1:

Reset's an acronym.

Speaker 1:

The R in RESET is reduce your carbs, e is eat nourishing foods, s is start with 12 hours, the next E is extend your fasts and the T is thoughtfully adapt.

Speaker 1:

And so when you're first starting simultaneously, while you're starting with 12 hours, you're reducing your carbs little by little and you're not like going on a keto diet from the start. That's going to automatically make it unpleasant for you, rewarding so that you want to keep doing it and you want to make it into a lifestyle. So you're gradually training your body to depend less on carbohydrates, a little at a time, while you learn to eat more nourishing foods that's the first E while you're fasting 12 hours. So all these things work together to make fasting more effortless, to make carb reduction more effortless and to make your body respond more favorably to the intervention of intermittent fasting. Because if you try to just do it without reducing your carbs or without eating nourishing foods, you might find yourself tired, starving, overeating when it's time to eat again, miserable and wanting to quit. You might have headaches, nausea, all sorts of sugar withdrawal symptoms, keto flu the way that I teach it. Nobody experiences that. That's not going to happen.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it was interesting because you, I want to say you, say to start with a 21 day goal of reducing your carbs and at first I was like, wow, that's a long time, especially given our culture of wanting an immediate response and wanting to see an immediate gratification for effort in. So how, when your clients come to you and that's part of the process how do you handle that societal norm that we all have now, like everybody just wants to go take a pill, they want to take Ozempic and lose 20 pounds in two weeks. How do you deal with that? Because that must be a challenge as a health professional.

Speaker 1:

I am not like literally telling them what to do Right, Because I just respect that they have their own idea of what and how they're going to do something. But they usually come to me at a point, almost like a crossroads, where they're like I've tried this, I've tried that or this has been happening.

Speaker 2:

They need help.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and so they're open at that time to do something different. It was just last week or this week Monday, when I had a new client who is going to the gym five times a week and not really aggressive workouts, but five workouts a week and working full time and sleeping five to six hours a night and intermittent fasting 16 to 19 hours a day and wondering why she's not losing weight. And I said what if I told you to stop fasting?

Speaker 1:

I'm like we need to address your sleep. That is no matter what if you're not sleeping. It doesn't matter what diet you go on or what workout routine you do. Unless you are like 23 years old or a man under 30, I should say it is very unlikely that you will be able to achieve any progress with those interventions until you get better sleep.

Speaker 2:

And I loved that in your book that you have chapters about sleep and I just thought, when it comes to my point of view on holistic wellness, after my life crashed for myself when I was 50, sleep became something that I started to prioritize. Where up until then I never prioritized sleep. I'd get up at five o'clock in the morning, I'd work till one in the morning, midnight, whatever. I would sacrifice the sleep in exchange for getting up and working out and being like I need to get the exercise in and I don't get the sleep and I made this massive shift and part of it's because I'm older and I just need more sleep. But I love that in your book you talk about the importance of sleep and I think you even say in there like if you don't add this as part of the equation, it will not work.

Speaker 2:

Think about when you're sleep deprived. Your body is now craving all these other things and you start to crave sugar and I was like myself. I'm like you know, if I get a bad night's sleep, I definitely eat worse that next day because my body feels like it needs something and I'm trying to satisfy that with not good food choices and even in my world not good food choices are actually pretty good food choices compared to most of society. But it's still those sugars, it's those fast carb rushes to try to get your energy back up. It was so fascinating.

Speaker 1:

Oh my gosh. There's so many direct and indirect ways that lack of sleep is messing up any of your health pursuits, even your career pursuits. I mean it is so imperative that you get enough sleep so that you can have enough brain energy. One of the most shocking discoveries I learned in the scientific literature is that the human brain, the mind, cannot conceive of how sleep deprived or impaired it is when it is deprived and impaired. So over and over in human studies they will ask people to take some tests and then they will be sleep deprived and they will ask them to take a test again and they'll say how do you think you did? How well do you think you'll do? Do you think you need more sleep? And they always are wrong about their guess and they underperform compared to what they think they're going to do and they like under emphasize how much that lack of sleep has affected them because the brain can literally not conceive of it.

Speaker 1:

You know, one of the questions you asked me was about intermittent fasting and its effect on the brain, and we have to understand that as productive adults with jobs and working on complex things throughout the day, we rely on the most advanced region of the brain In the front. It's called the prefrontal cortex, and that region is one of the areas that is most impaired in the ADHD brain, but it is also the biggest energy hog in the entire brain, and so that is where the most mitochondria are densely packed in the body. Mitochondria are where energy is made inside every cell. There are thousands per cell in these brain cells, but hundreds per cell everywhere else besides the ovaries, and the reason I'm bringing this up is because when your body's short on energy because you didn't sleep enough or you didn't get any quality sleep, the first place it's going to cut off energy and resources is the prefrontal cortex and your ovaries.

Speaker 1:

Those are the most demanding and like densely resourced energy centers that the body's like hey, we got to cut some of our expenses, here we're running on empty. We got to do what we can to make sure that this human's going to be able to have a heart beating and eyes open, maybe if we're lucky. So we think about that and go back to the studies showing us that we can't conceive of our impairment. It makes so much sense why people who are sleep deprived really fight this idea that they need more sleep. It's like they are in complete denial and incapable of having a vantage point that is reality, quite frankly.

Speaker 2:

Of even seeing that they, yes, yes. Well, you also talk about stress, which we all know. Stress is bad for us, but I think a lot of times people just go along with that. You know, we all have stress right, like it's just kind of a part of life. But you have, I want to say you have a whole chapter that talks about stress and the if not two, that talk about stress and the importance with it. Stress plays in this overall holistic. You know how do you fast? Stress plays in this overall holistic you know how do you fast?

Speaker 1:

If there's like a single book or article that you're reading that doesn't mention stress but it's about intermittent fasting, get rid of it, because intermittent fasting is a stressor. Remember, in the beginning I mentioned that it's a hormetic stressor. It stimulates hormesis. So is exercise, so is sauna therapy and cold therapy, all those other things I mentioned the keto diet, ketosis, another form of stressor, but when you do it right, it's a beneficial stressor that helps you come back stronger, smarter, faster, more resilient all these things. And so if somebody is talking about intermittent fasting either how to troubleshoot, how to increase your success or decrease plateaus and setbacks they have to talk about stress.

Speaker 1:

It's impossible not to, especially it's 2025. And everybody is stressed more than usual, and it's like we're kidding ourselves if we don't think that's part of the conversation. It's essential because we all have a threshold, a stress tolerance, and your body has a different idea of what that threshold is than you do in your mind, and so we're often going to hit a wall, a plateau, a setback, whenever you're trying to add more of these beneficial stressors on top of the stresses you already have talking about. You know what's your family life and home life, like you know. Do you have any big burdens on your time and energy right now? Do you like your job? Do you feel like you work too many hours? All of those things are telling me more information about somebody's stress tolerance.

Speaker 2:

Yes, interesting. All right, can we switch gears and talk about sugar burners versus fat burners?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, absolutely. Sugar burners and fat burners are just some playful terminology that I use to describe when somebody is either metabolically flexible, which is what you want to be, which intermittent fasting helps you achieve. It means that your body can use any fuel that you give it or go without fuel for a while and still meet all of its needs, whereas a sugar burner which is what most of our society is, that is someone who is reliant on frequent feedings and carbohydrates for energy and so that if they go long enough between meals or don't get their sugar fix or their carb fix, they're going to be hangry, irritable, might have headaches. You know, no energy and can't check in fix. They're going to be hangry, irritable, might have headaches, no energy and can't check in on what they're trying to do, and so it sucks.

Speaker 1:

First of all, being a sugar burner I've lived it, of course, a majority of my life, and we were sort of led and trained to believe and turn into these types of eaters because our food pyramid, for instance, turn into these types of eaters. Because our food pyramid, for instance, is grains on the bottom, you know, telling us that we need to have all these really carb heavy foods, and then our food industry is set up so that that is the cheapest to produce and it's also the most addicting for us in our brain centers. It's highly rewarding when we have high carbohydrate foods, and so it becomes this like automatic reward behavior to reach for the food and then receive that reward and then need it again. And because carbohydrates are so quick burning, the body needs it again, and again and again more frequently and you become reliant on it. And that sucks, because sometimes you're not going to be able to get something to eat and sometimes you're not going to want to stop and get something that's sweet or you're trying to lose weight, but you have all these intense cravings and dependence on carbohydrates.

Speaker 1:

So the way that I teach intermittent fasting, the reset method, helps you gradually train your body away from carb dependence and into metabolic flexibility, because you could do it the hard way and go 18 hour fast because that's the internet told you to do or start a keto diet and right now never exceed 20 grams of carbs per day and you're gonna be miserable for a short period of time, yes, but you know, for like a good week you could have terrible headaches and hate everything and everyone and be starving and exhausted, but that's not how it should be. Like right, you can train your body for this, and that's headaches and hate everything and everyone and be starving and exhausted. But that's not how it should be. Like you can train your body for this, and that's exactly what we're doing.

Speaker 1:

So once you train your body to start depending less on carbohydrates, gradually over time it starts to look for energy in your fat cells and we store fat to an endless capacity. We can't store carbohydrates to an endless capacity, so the body converts excess carbs to fat. So, no matter who you are, even if you're thin, if you've been a sugar burner your whole life, you have fat in your liver. You have fat in all sorts of places that can be converted into ketones for energy, and that is the really initial step into becoming metabolically flexible and finding food freedom. I mean, how great is it to like not have to eat if you're at the airport or you forgot to get something, or if there's nothing there that's going to be healthy for you and you don't have any good options? Like, how cool is it that you don't have to eat or that you can stop eating when you're full and don't feel like you know food is on your mind 24 seven.

Speaker 2:

That was freeing for me I know it is, and you talked about that. I remember reading about that in your book this concept that you're no longer constantly thinking about your next meal and what you're going to eat. And I used to be one of those people who was like I have to eat every two hours. If I don't eat every two hours, I get a headache and I'm cranky and I don't have any energy. And it was so interesting to me to see an evolution after I started doing intermittent fasting and started changing my diet. And you talk in the book about oatmeal and how so many of us had oatmeal and I was like, oh, my hands raised, like I used to have oatmeal for breakfast every day, you know with fruit and you know vanilla, almond milk, maybe fruit juice Right.

Speaker 2:

I didn't really eat, I didn't really right Orange juice. I used to have orange juice for breakfast every day, like that's what we were raised to have. Was you know, orange juice in a bowl of cereal? I mean it couldn't be less nutrient dense. I mean it doesn't have any nutrients in it at all, and that's what we were raised to eat as kids.

Speaker 2:

And so I found it so interesting over time, like you're right, and it was interesting when you started to talk about oatmeal and I was like I used to do that until I changed how I ate or how I thought about the foods that I was eating, because, even though they are considered healthy, looking at them through the lens of what's their carbohydrate content and you talk a lot you have a couple of chapters in there about understanding how to understand your carbohydrate consumption, because you also talk about like. There's this concept of like, okay, carbs are bad, okay, but yeah, you shouldn't have a bowl of pasta with every meal, that's true, but you do need some carbohydrates in certain formats. So I think it's an interesting mindset around identifying good carbohydrates.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and it's not like saying you can't have them. I think that's like I don't know. You probably saw, but in the book it said something like it really pains me to say that this is a diet book or that it's in the diet books category and I never wanted to be a weight loss coach. Like, honestly, this all just happened because that is what society is going through and I am completely compassionate about that and want to help people. It's just I'm so passionate about health. I wish other people were passionate about health and like one of the first things I say in the book is you might come here hoping to lose weight and then get healthier, but that's not the way this is going to work. You're going to start living healthier and making healthier choices and because you get healthier, you're going to lose weight, and that's what I teach. So when it comes to carbohydrate reduction, we're not just addressing it so that you can lose weight. We are addressing it in this holistic framework that is helping you understand what you are doing to yourself and it's not your fault. It's just a wake-up call, like, hey, we've all been led down this path. Here you are at a fork in the road. You can decide. Do you want to start taking care of your body the way it was designed, or do you want to just keep being like the blind passenger in the car that you know the car monster is driving? Really, nobody likes that feeling of being out of control around food or feeling like all of your efforts to get in better shape or better health are fruitless, and so this is a holistic framework for that reason. That's why there's a whole section on sleep. There's a lot on hormones, a lot on stress, and it really comes down to crafting it for you, and that might change.

Speaker 1:

So the reset method is not just for people who are just starting.

Speaker 1:

It's for people who wanna return to a healthier lifestyle after they've fallen off the wagon or deviated long enough.

Speaker 1:

For people who are just starting, it's for people who want to return to a healthier lifestyle after they've fallen off the wagon or deviated long enough. Because maybe you used to fast 18 hours a day and you felt amazing and everything was going great, but then you got married and this happened, and this happened and it has been eight months since you had been fasting and you're like, oh man, I already gained 15 pounds. I'm not fitting in my favorite pants anymore, so I want to start fasting again. So your mind tells you well, 18 hours a day is what worked for me before, so that's what I should do now. And now you try to go right to 18 hours and you find yourself constantly obsessing about breaking the fast binging when the window opens, or being exhausted or tired or discouraged and not wanting to do it anymore. Thinking fasting doesn't work for me, but it's because you need to retrain your body and retrain your metabolism to become a fat burner and become metabolically flexible.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it's a process, it's ongoing. We are evolving humans. Yeah, it's a process, it's ongoing, we are evolving humans. So let me ask you a question about fasting in terms of what meal to miss. So you know, like is it? And you talk a bunch about this in the book, this, there's this whole social perception of everyone needs breakfast, you must have breakfast. Breakfast should never be the meal that you miss, right? And so is it breakfast that, ideally, you should miss.

Speaker 2:

Is it dinner that you should miss? How do you determine for yourself, recognizing that everyone is different, what is the right meal to potentially miss in your 12 hours?

Speaker 1:

Well, the right meal to miss is the one that works best for your lifestyle and your circumstances. First of all, from a health perspective, we have tons of research that proves it's better to stop eating before the sun goes down, or at least by the time the sun goes down, because, metabolically speaking, we just don't handle food, especially carbohydrates, very well after the sun goes down. This is all related to our internal clock called the circadian rhythm. The circadian rhythm, whether you like it or not, is controlling a lot of things your energy, your hormones, your alertness, your ability to fall asleep and wake up in the morning, and your hunger and your appetite and so many other things. And so we can say definitively that, for every human in general, it's better to stop eating at night. But that doesn't matter. If that's too hard for you and it doesn't work for your lifestyle, it doesn't matter, it's irrelevant.

Speaker 2:

It's what's right for you.

Speaker 1:

You need to figure out how intermittent fasting fits in your life, and 90% of people want to fast in the morning, and that is because our hunger hormones are the lowest in the morning, so we naturally are not hungry when we first wake up. We also have coffee or tea most of us in the morning, which again is another appetite suppressant, or at least something to look forward to besides food. And we also have things we gotta do. We gotta get out the door. There's too much commotion, there's a lot to manage in the morning, and so getting rid of one more thing to manage, like making a meal, is a really pleasant idea to some people and it just comes easier. But if you are lucky enough to where your lifestyle makes it easier to skip dinner, by all means do that, because you may get better results by doing it.

Speaker 2:

Interesting, all right. So you mentioned coffee and tea. Let's talk about what can you have or what is acceptable. I'm going to put this in air quotes, right? What is acceptable to consume other than water and still have it count as a fast?

Speaker 1:

You're asking me, so I'm going to tell you what I think. Yeah right, Exactly yeah. Yeah, yeah Right In your experience, and how you help people what you know.

Speaker 2:

That's why I put it in air quotes as like acceptable.

Speaker 1:

Yeah right, Exactly Because there are no, like rules, are rules right?

Speaker 2:

Whatever, everybody has a different rule.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's not like I want to go toe to toe with some other fasting expert about what breaks a fast.

Speaker 2:

Based on your experience, what do you think?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, this is about what I have seen work on, hundreds personally and thousands passively that you have to make it something that is rewarding to you. So, however we can make your coffee taste amazing and rewarding to you is what we're going to do. Right, and the only thing we're not going to do is add creamers or sweeteners that are unnecessary and containing carbs and protein. So it's generally agreed upon across the board that anything contained carbs or protein, especially net carbs, meaning it's not fiber or sugar, alcohols, anything that contains carbohydrates or proteins in the serving size that you consume, is going to technically break a fast. Now it depends on so many other factors, like how far into your fast you are, what you ate the night before, how low carb of a diet you're on, just your metabolic state, because we can still actually eat a little bit of protein or carbs, which we have plenty of research on from the fasting mimicking diet that we won't disrupt fasting pathways in the body, we won't turn off those fasting mechanisms because the nutrient sensors in your body are going to say that's not enough to meet the needs and so we're going to keep fasting. Because I still need ketones, I still need to make resources from the other cells and I'm not going to depend on this measly one gram of protein or measly one gram of carbs that this person just gave me. And so, when it comes to, you know, making this your own, I give you plenty of ideas in the book, depending how deep you want to dive into it, like there's four. What breaks a fast list Never breaks.

Speaker 1:

A fast list Probably breaks.

Speaker 2:

A fast list you never breaks a fast list probably breaks a fast, likely breaks a fast list, you know.

Speaker 1:

And then there's also the Varying degrees, yeah, and there's also nuance within each list, like well, it depends what are your goals or what are your challenges right now, because we might want to. For instance, all of my beginners used to start with bulletproof coffee during even their 12-hour fasting window. Bulletproof Coffee during even their 12-hour fasting window. Bulletproof Coffee is a fatty coffee that has no carbs or protein in it, but it's low-toxin coffee blended in a blender with unsalted butter and MCT oil. There's lots of variations of that, but it helps actually accelerate fat burning. It helps make the fasting window really satisfying, gives you something to look forward to and it's encouraging, so that you're encouraged to go 13 hours and eventually go 14 hours and you find fasting quite easy and enjoyable. And I've had plenty of people lose lots of pounds because they do bulletproof fasting. So that's why all of this nonsense in the fasting community about how strict we have to be is frustrating to me, because it's like what are we really trying to prove? Aren't we trying to prove that we can help our clients get to their desired outcome, no matter how we get there? If we can help them get there and they feel healthier and are healthier, isn't that our goal? And so we were able to achieve that with many variations of coffee, you just want to be careful which sweeteners you use and which creamers you use. So if you're not blending your coffee and doing it the bulletproof style, then the only approved plant-based creamer that I recommend and know of is Nut Pods. So Nut Podser you can get in the United States on Amazon. You can get it at Whole Foods, market and lots of other places. Do not get the oat milk variety. I don't recommend anyone drink oat milk unless you just want it. You know, once a week at brunch with your girlfriends, you love oat milk. Fine, but do not think that it is a health food and do not think that you can fast with oat milk, because you cannot. There's a lot of starch in there and a lot of toxins. But nut pods original creamers in any flavor. They're unsweetened and they have a nice richness to them, without carbs or protein. So even if you're using like a quarter cup in your coffee in the morning, it's not going to break a fast, and I've coached hundreds of people through this method with nut pods as well. So that's one way to get this flavored coffee. You want hazelnut? You want caramel? Nut pods has all these flavors. It's pretty awesome.

Speaker 1:

And the second way is with stevia drops. So liquid stevia doesn't have any of the junk fillers that a lot of powdered stevias now have. They're sneaking in dextrose and maltodextrin and other things that would technically break a fast because they will trigger insulin in your body. We're trying to go through a fasted state by avoiding any insulin, and so your body sees that as a sign that it needs to make more ketones and keep you in a fasted state. So stevia drops, or Pure Via, is one of the brands that actually added dextrose, so watch out for that. Stevia in the Raw is one of the brands that added dextrose. So you got to read the ingredient list on those Stevia packets. Unfortunately, that's what Starbucks has and that's what a lot of the big coffee companies are using for Stevia. But Truvia is an acceptable one. That's another big brand that you can get. But yeah, just look at the ingredient list and make sure there is nothing that's going to break your fast. Sugar alcohols are fine, right.

Speaker 2:

Well, and I think, just speaking from my own experience, I think what people find when they start to get into this, when you start to reduce the amount of sugar that your body is consuming, you learn to like things that are less sweet and you learn your taste buds do adapt, especially when you start to feel better and you feel healthier and you don't feel the spikes and the ups and the downs. Then your body starts to crave stuff a little bit more. I started drinking matcha tea just made with water, a year ago and in the beginning I was like this is so gross, this is like grass, this is so disgusting. I cannot believe I'm doing this, but I did it because I made it part of a morning ritual, part of my journaling. I did it because my nutritionist was like let me tell you how good this is for your body. So my brain was like this is good for you, this is good for you, this is good for you. It tastes like grass, but this is good. Keep doing it. Keep doing it. Try different brands, you know, make sure you're getting really good.

Speaker 2:

And over time it has gotten to the point where if I go out and I get it with a milk like an almond milk or something in it. I actually don't like it because I have adapted to liking it the way it is. And does it still taste like grass? Yeah, a little bit it does. But if I don't have it in the morning, I now crave that because it's also part of my morning routine, it's part of my journaling, it's part of the routine. I know it's really good for me. I know it's a really good way to start my body and it allows me to continue the fast also, while not just drinking water with electrolytes or with lemon, it gives me something else, and part of that is the routines that we all have. I'm like I want to hold the mug Right. I want that whole experience, and so it's trying to find new ways to achieve that.

Speaker 2:

But over time I will just say from personal experience, you can wean your body off of those things, especially if you do it in your way, in a slow way and in a healthy way, where it isn't like this is so terrible. I'm so freaking hungry. Why suffer? We don't need to suffer. It's a concept that we have to suffer, exactly. Okay, I've taken up so much of your time, so I have two more questions, even though I could talk to you for hours. Okay, two more questions. One I am sure the listeners want to know what is a day in your life like. What do you eat, what do you do, what are your routines in your life?

Speaker 1:

Well, I don't have a routine. Okay, it's not that I never have, Of course, when I was writing the book I had a routine and stuff but I don't have a routine fasting time. I have found, like most people have an office job or like if you have kids, you only have like a certain window of time that you can eat every day, and it's pretty routine, and so you're. You obviously want your fasting to work around that, but it hasn't been like that. My life is not like that and that's how I.

Speaker 1:

One of the ways that I came up with this flexible intermittent fasting strategy is because, really, the more you make your body guess, the more you're going to get beneficial adaptations, as long as it's not too stressed already. So you sometimes need more routine when you're first starting out and you sometimes need more routine when you're older or you have other hormonal or metabolic dysfunction going on. Then you will benefit from more routine. Any digestive impairments which we all get as we age. We need more routine.

Speaker 1:

But for me it's literally like you know I'm not eating in the morning. I already know that that's a given and I'm going to have nut pods in my coffee most of the time and I'm going to eat when I have a break and it sounds like a good idea, or when I have too much food in my fridge and I need to get rid of some of it. Or I love to cook and sometimes I cook too much and I've got all these leftovers and I'm good at freezing stuff and whatever. But if my husband's like working every day and he's not going through the food in the fridge, I'll be like, okay, I need to eat at least twice today. So, cause, we got to get through this food that's in the fridge.

Speaker 1:

You know when you're in maintenance mode. That's what it's going to look like Like. It's so freeing because I can literally I can be on and eat once a day. I can be home and eat two, three times a day. I can eat every three hours, it doesn't matter Like I'm going to snap right back into what is healthy. And so, essentially, to answer your question, I don't have a routine, but I mostly eat foods that I make for myself homemade foods. It's cold weather now so I'm eating a lot of soups and stews and hot foods. I do love salads in the summer.

Speaker 1:

I always have animal protein at every meal. I'm a huge, huge advocate as animal protein as part of a nutritious diet. There's sections in the book devoted to that, because we just cannot meet our nutrient requirements nearly as efficiently with plant proteins or as safely as we can with animal proteins. So I understand the animal practices and farming methods are a disgrace in this country, but there are regenerative farms and really admirable old school methods for raising healthy animals. That yields healthy meat and seafood for us and to achieve your goals, especially weight loss and health-related goals, you will want to strongly consider incorporating those. So it's always in mind and variety is hugely important to me, so I always have lots of variety in my diet. That is of utmost importance, which you can also learn about in the book.

Speaker 2:

That's true, keeps it interesting.

Speaker 1:

Well, not just so it keeps it interesting. I mean, it's like so essential, like people will be like I don't know why I stopped losing weight, I don't know why I plateaued, and it's because they're eating chicken and rice and your chicken and quinoa and broccoli. Chicken and quinoa and broccoli the same things all the time. You absolutely need variety, because your microbiome depends on that, and the diversity in your microbiome is what enhances a healthy metabolism, healthy brain function, healthy immunity, and without it, you will definitely see plateaus and symptoms develop over time.

Speaker 2:

Sure Well, and also eat the seasons. I've talked to a lot of specialists to talk about eat the seasons. And we're lucky, we live in places that we have seasons and so embrace those seasons. Like you mentioned, it's winter, embrace that, it's soup season, embrace that it's the winter season and embrace the fruits and vegetables that are part of that season and then when you move into the next season, then you're moving on to that season's produce and that season's recipes, which helps keep the variety.

Speaker 2:

A season's only three months, folks. It's not that long before you're moving on to something else.

Speaker 2:

At least here in Connecticut the tomatoes are gross right now. It's like there's so many things that I eat all summer long, but right now it's so hard to get them and have them be good, so we move on to different things. Okay, so before we go, last question for you. I always ask my guests to recommend a book that has influenced them personally and professionally, other than their own, because obviously your book will be in all the show notes and everything. So what book would you like to recommend to our audience that they should read?

Speaker 1:

Well, it's hard for me to choose one, but I understand that I have that same problem. I think one that had some of the biggest impact on me is Beyond Mars and Venus by John Gray, so it's the second book of his famous. You know, men are from Mars, women are from Venus.

Speaker 2:

But the second one.

Speaker 1:

Beyond Mars and Venus is about the way that we actually are today, like it's not that old, conventional, stale. You know hetero relationship and male and female roles in the household. This is progressive and it's saying okay, if we're changing roles and our lifestyle is changing because we're modernized humans, how does that affect our relationships, our hormones and our health? And it was so essential for me to learn what was in that book because I struggled with pretty terrible PMS my whole life and even though I still have challenges, it is not every month like it used to be.

Speaker 1:

And one of the hugest wake-up calls is really like part of the inspiration of my book title Not so Fast. It's like that week leading up to when you expect to bleed, when a woman's approaching her period. That seven to 10 days is when you are either going to inhibit the storm of PMS from brewing or you are going to promote the storm of BMS PMS. And so I learned that by overscheduling myself, by re overcommitting um, by planning too many things for me to do or for me to, for others to expect of me, was making my PMS worse. And that book beyond Mars and helps you understand why and it's also something I break down in my book about the interplay between hormones and women and hormones in men, with fasting. So just by literally on my calendar every single month. My digital calendar will say luteal phase with the little blood drop emoji Like hey girl, your period's approaching, no plans and I say no plans, because I will always make some plans.

Speaker 1:

Like it's almost impossible for seven days a month not to make plans. But I just know when I look at that, like can we pick another date? Like when someone's asking me, or if I'm making plans to clean, do some big project around the house, I'm like it's not going to be that week, not that week, no, and that helps so much. I have far less PMS symptoms when I do that.

Speaker 2:

That's fascinating, yeah, yeah, and we could spend another 20 minutes talking about it. We could spend another 20 minutes talking about all of that.

Speaker 1:

But that's really the main reason Like your relationships and your health, like that book is such an eye-opener, so I highly recommend it.

Speaker 2:

Oh, that's a great one, thank you. No one's recommended that one, so thank you, marisa. It has been so much fun to talk to you. I look so forward to this episode coming out and getting to talk about your book on Instagram. I will promote it. I will have all the links below.

Speaker 2:

Thank everyone. Please buy her book, buy it on amazon, write a review, rate it. That is how we all stay in business and reach out to her. If you want some coaching, help, um, and I will put all of that in the show notes it'll be on audible soon too.

Speaker 1:

So it's not on audible yet, but I'm recording. Yeah, I'm in like a third of the way through the recordings and it should be completely done by the end of February 2025.

Speaker 2:

So hopefully you'll see it by this spring on Audible. I love it. Good for you, and good for you for recording it yourself. That's something to be proud of, in addition to writing the book. Thank you, yeah, it's kind of a lot.

Speaker 2:

It is fun. Oh, it is great to hear your own voice too, and to hear how you would think about your subject. I think it's great. I love listening to books where people are there, read the books themselves. So, thank you, marisa. Have a wonderful day. Thank you so much for the education I learned so much. We'll talk soon, okay, bye.

Speaker 2:

Thank you for joining us for another episode of the House of Germar podcast, where wellness starts within. We appreciate you being a part of our community and hope you felt inspired and motivated by our guest. If you enjoyed this episode, please write us a review and share it with friends. Building our reach on YouTube and Apple podcasts will help us get closer to our mission to empower 1 million women to live all in. You can also follow us on Instagram at House of Jermar and sign up to be a part of our monthly inspiration newsletter through our website, houseofjermarcom. If you or someone you know would be a good guest on the show, please reach out to us at podcast at houseofjermarcom. This has been a House of Jermar production with your host, jean Collins. Thank you for joining our house.