Fourth Wing by Rebecca Yarros

In our second episode, we discuss our June Book Club Selection:
Fourth Wing by Rebecca Yarros

Synopsis:
Enter the brutal and elite world of a war college for dragon riders...
Twenty-year-old Violet Sorrengail was supposed to enter the Scribe Quadrant, living a quiet life among books and history. Now, the commanding general—also known as her tough-as-talons mother—has ordered Violet to join the hundreds of candidates striving to become the elite of Navarre: dragon riders.
But when you’re smaller than everyone else and your body is brittle, death is only a heartbeat away...because dragons don’t bond to “fragile” humans. They incinerate them.
With fewer dragons willing to bond than cadets, most would kill Violet to better their own chances of success. The rest would kill her just for being her mother’s daughter—like Xaden Riorson, the most powerful and ruthless wingleader in the Riders Quadrant.
She’ll need every edge her wits can give her just to see the next sunrise.
Yet, with every day that passes, the war outside grows more deadly, the kingdom's protective wards are failing, and the death toll continues to rise. Even worse, Violet begins to suspect leadership is hiding a terrible secret.
Friends, enemies, lovers. Everyone at Basgiath War College has an agenda—because once you enter, there are only two ways out: graduate or die

Transcript

SPEAKER_05: 0:00

Why do I read? I live in two worlds. One is a world of books. For me. Books, books, books. Mind needs books. Soul needs a website.

SPEAKER_00: 0:13

Books. I read it in a book what. Right for a woman to read. Don't you start getting ideas?

SPEAKER_05: 0:32

I have many leatherbound books of Melbourne Richard Mahogram. When you read, what the author thinks you have that book. I have that book. Don't read this book. Oh book. This might be the best book I've ever read. We're gonna go read. Why do I read? I read because it's worse about it after.

SPEAKER_00: 1:08

Hello. Are we on? We are on. I can't see you. I what did I do? Why isn't it? I am so bad at this.

SPEAKER_02: 1:24

Okay, all right. Did that work? It's just black. Right. I haven't taken it off yet. Do you want me to? Yes. Do you want you want to see the surprise? Oh, yes. Okay. It's my hat.

SPEAKER_05: 1:44

I love it.

SPEAKER_02: 1:45

I made it. I made it.

SPEAKER_05: 1:48

I cracked it.

SPEAKER_02: 1:49

Because I I I I was looking for like a like a fuck Dane hat and they just don't exist. Well I was like, I'm making one. And so it says uh Dane sucks on it. And it's got all this bedazzlement millennial nostalgia. Because that's because Dane's a girl. And this is his dragon and it's parting. That is looking as Dane is stupid, and there's no way his dragon.

SPEAKER_04: 2:25

Okay, thank you. We're not even cracked into it yet, but I I have seen that.

SPEAKER_02: 2:32

On the back it's it says zero, number zero, because that's what Dane is zero. And it has my favorite Dane Atos quote on it, which is she's weak and belongs with me. Oh my god, that's amazing. Oh, and on the underbelly, it's got dragon teeth. You're hilarious.

SPEAKER_04: 3:00

Well, cheers. Cheers, friend. Cheers. Cheers.

SPEAKER_02: 3:06

What are you drinking?

SPEAKER_04: 3:07

I'm drinking a Cabernet Sauvignon. What are you drinking?

SPEAKER_02: 3:13

Um, I'm drinking uh margarita.

SPEAKER_04: 3:16

Margarita, margarita.

SPEAKER_02: 3:18

Hi bookmates. Oh okay. So I'm a little more organized this time. Oh, you got post-its? I got tabs.

SPEAKER_04: 3:28

Right? I got post-its, but I need tabs.

SPEAKER_02: 3:32

Next time I'm definitely doing tabs.

SPEAKER_04: 3:34

And mine I found some on Amazon that were just like short tabs, but I really like these ones because they're long and highlight like the entire thing, but they're see-through, so you can still like read through it.

SPEAKER_02: 3:45

Yeah, I like to highlight mine though. I know you do. I know you do. I'm a little more chaotic than you.

SPEAKER_04: 3:53

This is true.

SPEAKER_02: 3:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_04: 3:55

I I don't think you understand how hard it's been to not talk about this book with you for this long. Well, I was talking to my mom yesterday. I'm like, I feel like I'm like getting an ulcer because I have all these words and feelings inside of me, then I'm not allowed to talk to Lita yet about. And like my and my face like literally started getting red. She's like, Are you all right?

SPEAKER_02: 4:18

I'm like, no, I just like well I know, and it's such it's I find it really agony because one thing that I that we do is we talk about the book as we're reading it usually together, like throughout the the reading of it. So it's so weird and hard. Yes, it does feel a lot different to have to wait.

SPEAKER_04: 4:44

And like we had originally like set it up to like record right away when we were fresh off of it, and then it just didn't happen, and it's been way longer than it was supposed to be, and I've just been dying, dying.

SPEAKER_02: 4:59

All right, let's let's dive in.

SPEAKER_04: 5:02

Let's dive in. Okay, dive in. I'm excited. Oh my god, let's do this. Okay, just FYI spoiler alert in effect. We are going to talk about all of the things. Nothing's off limits. So if you haven't read the book, pause it, go read it, and then come back. Or if you don't plan on reading it, just listen to us talk all about it, and then you can feel like you've read it.

SPEAKER_02: 5:31

And also we're gonna talk about all of the things.

SPEAKER_04: 5:37

All of the things there there is adult content in this book, and we will be discussing it. So fourth wing. Okay, okay. Let's just start with basic. Did you like it? I did like it. What did you rate it on Goodreads? I had a hard time rating it on Goodreads. I kept changing my rating, but I ended up giving it four stars. I loved it because the things I loved, I loved, and the things I hated, I hated.

SPEAKER_02: 6:10

I gave it five stars on Goodreads.

SPEAKER_04: 6:13

I loved it. It was a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_02: 6:17

It was a lot of fun. It is nice to have something like that when you're coming down from a court of thorns and roses.

SPEAKER_04: 6:25

Well, and see, I think that that was part of the let down because I feel like it did not live up to the hype that everybody was like it was a fun read for sure, but for me it wasn't like everybody was like, this is Avatar level good, and it's not like it's super fun.

SPEAKER_02: 6:43

Looking at me like I'm a train. Well, I'm looking at you because nothing is ever gonna be as good as a quarter of thorns and roses.

SPEAKER_04: 6:50

I mean, I mean, duh. I mean, but and I I can enjoy I can enjoy everything for what it is. There's just like some things that just I had a hard time getting past. Well, let's talk about it. Okay. Here, so I I loved, loved, loved the the dragon element, and I was really surprised, and I was like, fuck yeah, when I realized that we get to hear the dragons in their mind and they actually get to talk to them like conversationally. I was like, Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_02: 7:23

I really like the dragon stuff too. It was very surprising. I I didn't know anything about this book when I started it. Um, I didn't even know it was about dragons. I mean, actually, I don't even think it's about dragons, it's the dragons are just a part of the universe, yeah. Um, but I found the universe exciting and magical. I I absolutely loved reading it. I could not put it down.

SPEAKER_04: 7:56

I binged the first half in one day. I just like sat on my couch with it the entire day. And then I feel like it plateaued a little in the middle. One thing I didn't really notice until I was like midway through, and it was like really starting to grate on me though, is the overly modern dialogue was really bothering me.

SPEAKER_02: 8:20

The overly modern dialogue? Do you mean like ONG?

SPEAKER_04: 8:25

Like when I'm in a fantasy, when I'm in a fantasy setting with castles and dragons, I don't want to hear phrases like we're a hot mess, or I'm here for it, come out. Like it just feels so out of place with the the world.

SPEAKER_02: 8:46

I guess that I don't notice it as much, I think, as you do. Honestly, I think you get a little more annoyed than I do at a lot of things. Like technical things. Well, I think that goes back to you're just so grammatical, anyways.

SPEAKER_04: 9:00

So I think your brain just like Well, and like I don't mind that type of uh you know writing or dialogue in the right setting. It just didn't feel like the right setting. It just the juxtaposition of it just kept throwing me off. I'm like, oh, why are they talking that way? Like, I want to picture everyone with British accents. You're always putting Henry Cavill on all your your man He just lives, he just lives permanently in every main male character that I read most times. I did love how quick it started out, like immediately into the action. It didn't take a long time to rev up, it was just immediately going.

SPEAKER_02: 9:43

Okay, question Did you know without looking it up what a parapet was? Yes, because I did not, and I kept like my brain kept making it into parrot, and I was like, I need to go and look. I I don't know what a parapet is.

SPEAKER_04: 10:01

I watch a lot of uh British shit and documentaries, so yes, I did know what a parapet was.

SPEAKER_01: 10:09

I like the old BBC.

SPEAKER_04: 10:14

I know I just a second ago I was complaining about the dialogue, but one of the things I actually really did like was the amount of dialogue because I feel like a lot of first person books are just so in their head, and it's very like uh tell versus show, and that drives me crazy. It's one of my biggest pet peeves with first person POVs, and it didn't feel too stuck in in her head because I feel like there was a lot of conversation between everybody.

SPEAKER_02: 10:44

One thing that really annoyed me was that, and I hate to say this because I I know it's just like the shadow that is a court of thorns and roses, it's I mean it's just I really think that nothing will ever top that for me, probably never in my whole life. And I think that it has influenced so much of the genre. It's like almost uh it's almost spraying a new genre. No, really, and um I thought that Zaden sounded so similar to Reese.

SPEAKER_04: 11:16

Oh, that was my first thought. I was like, oh, is the High Lord of the Night Court here?

SPEAKER_02: 11:21

Oh, yeah, like I I was just always picturing Reese in my head, and I couldn't think of a way that Zaden looked different, other than yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 11:30

There was a few times I I wrote uh insert Reese comparison.

SPEAKER_02: 11:34

I wrote down Zaydan is giving Reese Sand, but my chemical romance style, still hot, but kind of off. Like, you know, like girl jeans. You remember that trend? I kept picturing emo reese sand, yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 11:59

Right. I I kept picturing, yeah, like teenage Reese. This is probably what exactly what Reese would have been like as a as a young stud.

SPEAKER_02: 12:10

I guess. But I mean, and so what I did was I wrote a list of all the things that I thought were similar to Reese and Zaydan. Uh he's got dark everything, besides everything. He's got dark hair and a complexion. Uh he's got dark powers of shadows, shadows, whatever tattoos, tattoos. He has a mind connection to Violet. Okay. The blonde. He even acts like Reese and I wrote down pushes Violet not to be weak, but gives her space to be herself and make her own choices, exactly like Greece. And they're obviously mated. I mean, it's not come out yet, but right.

SPEAKER_04: 12:58

I mean, this this whole book, let's let's be honest, there's not much original about the book, like it it copies from a lot of different things. You have the like Hogwarts elements, but with dragons, you have like kind of this Hunger Games level uh curriculum.

SPEAKER_02: 13:13

Well, I think it was influenced from a lot of things. I did think that it was standalone a great story. It was super fun. It yeah, it wasn't so I don't feel like it was similar to those stories in that way. I just mean that you can just tell there's just just sounded a lot like Greese and like there was a couple of things here and there, and that I thought about, but like you said, obviously, some of it's Game of Thronesy, some of it's obviously mashup of all these elements. I loved it. I loved it.

SPEAKER_04: 13:52

So one of the I wasn't gonna talk about this till later, but I feel like I can't I can't not say it anymore. The thing that got me the most that just uh made me cringe so hard physically hurt me every time that it happened, and I had to put the book down because I was so like oh I know what it is.

SPEAKER_02: 14:18

You do it was it was the lightning orgasms that made me no, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_04: 14:27

No, every like her nickname, his nickname for her is the stupidest goddamn thing I have ever heard in my life. It's so stupid every time he says it, like my ears are getting hot just talking about it, like flames, flames on the side of my face.

SPEAKER_02: 14:46

Yeah, it's a reminder for a completely different reason because I love it.

SPEAKER_01: 14:51

Fucking I loved it.

SPEAKER_04: 14:53

I that's when I was like, okay, this I feel like okay, number one, like it's not clever, it it rhymes with Violet.

SPEAKER_02: 15:02

It sounds kind of like Violet, and it's she is violent.

SPEAKER_04: 15:07

She's no, she's not she's the one person in this war college who refuses to hurt anybody.

SPEAKER_02: 15:14

Why would he call her violence? Well, I mean, she does hurt, she does hurt people all the time. She doesn't want to, but she does, right?

SPEAKER_04: 15:22

But she's not a violent person.

SPEAKER_02: 15:26

I don't know.

SPEAKER_04: 15:27

Maybe he thinks that she is. I hated that so every time he called her violence. I was like, ugh. Oh, I love it. I love it. I had to I had to close the book for a second because I was so annoyed.

SPEAKER_02: 15:40

I actually wrote, I love the nickname violence. Okay, and how refreshing was it that Violet was not a virgin? Yeah. I get I I I don't sometimes I'm like, oh, they're a virgin. Oh here we go.

SPEAKER_04: 15:58

Though I did I did feel like that this book, even though it wasn't YA, it reads super YA until you get to like the very explicit sex scenes. And that kind of threw me for a loop too, because it almost they're they're all so immature that it felt like reading about teenagers having like this level of sex. Well, they're not teenagers though. I had to keep reminding myself that because their dialogue is kind of immature and it just like really reads YA. When I got to their first sex thing, I was like, whoa, I did not.

SPEAKER_02: 16:36

Okay. I I counted, all right. Her their first, she supposedly, all right, had four orgasm.

SPEAKER_01: 16:46

Orgas two of them were in a row. In a like in a row.

SPEAKER_04: 16:55

Well, I feel like the first two just counted as like one long one because she never stopped. Like she was just Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 17:01

See, I thought I wrote uh orgasm counter, four on first attempt, maybe five. Because the first one was and I was like, wait, is that two? I don't know. There's like five paragraphs. I'm thinking it's two. I'm only gonna count one. That's so sometimes that just makes me laugh when um people write that that kind of way in sex scenes because it's like, okay, all right, I I think it would be really embarrassing to have lightning orgasms. I well, everybody with around you would know. How would they know?

SPEAKER_01: 17:43

How would they know all the trees are on fire?

SPEAKER_02: 17:47

The house is on fire, the curtains are on fire, everything's on fire, blowing out windows.

SPEAKER_04: 17:54

I I guess the only like caveat you could give them is that you know, because maybe because of the the dragon bonding too, and they feel the the feels, maybe they're like it's amplified because like creepy is it that they can that was so good, they like that was so uncomfortable. Like they're feeling their dragons having sex, that's so gross and cringy. It's like, don't do that.

SPEAKER_01: 18:17

He's like, Oh, just think about something else, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 18:20

No shit, no shit, or like, is that kind of it's kind of tampering on the verge of BCLity, right?

SPEAKER_04: 18:32

Like it's really creepy, it's really gross. They have all these powers, but the dragons can't block their riders from knowing when they're like getting it on. Gross.

SPEAKER_02: 18:43

You know what I had a hard time picturing in this book was Violet's hair. Really? I yeah, I kept thinking of it like it was a skunk, like black on the like black on the top, like all the way down to the bottom, and then just like white, like rogue, or I I don't know. And it I just kept going back to this weird skunk hair every time she references her hair, which I guess it's actually her hair is brown, brownish blondish.

SPEAKER_04: 19:16

And then I just kind of imagined it as kind of like an ombre into silver, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 19:21

In ombre into silver. Oh, and I got a little fascinated with that. And since I read this book three times, three, three times, I wrote down some Nancy Drew clues.

SPEAKER_04: 19:36

Right, like your theories on why her hair is that color.

SPEAKER_02: 19:39

No, it's not my theories, it's like stuff that just little things that I picked up on and just started writing down from the book. On page 33, it says that her mother had an illness while she was pregnant with Violet, yeah, and it almost killed her, and that she drank something. I don't know, I kind of thought of the Rapunzel thing, like she was really sick and she drank something magical because it also says that no matter when what when she cuts her hair, it's always that way, it adjusts, like it's like a magical quality to it. Yeah, so I think that that's gonna really come into play later on. Obviously, there's something going on with Violet, and I haven't read of course, I haven't read Iron Flame, so no, nor have I, yeah. But obviously, I think that that's something that's gonna come into play.

SPEAKER_04: 20:38

Oh, yeah, I think I think that there's gonna be more to that. Okay, so immediately from right out the gate, when Dane shows up into the picture, I was like, Oh, it's Gail Hawthorne. Gail Hawthorne from Hunger Games, like he was very he was very much giving Gail her best friend in the Hunger Games. Katniss is like best friend.

SPEAKER_02: 21:04

Oh my god, I literally just realized I totally thought just called him Liam all the time.

SPEAKER_04: 21:11

Yeah, because Liam Hemsart played it in the movie. Okay, yeah, Gail. I alright, yeah. I was like, he's giving Gail also Kale from Throne of Glass, just boring, and I don't need him.

SPEAKER_02: 21:27

I hate Dane.

SPEAKER_04: 21:29

Dane is stupid. Hate, hate Dane, like the whole book. I was like, fucking Dane. I, you know, that was one.

SPEAKER_02: 21:37

I think he was giving Mal or Evtev.

SPEAKER_04: 21:41

Oh, a hundred percent Mal. Yeah, Mal, Gail, Kale, just Tamlin. Taml. But you know, like he I wish, I honestly wish that she would have fleshed him out more and that there would have been more of a push and pull because there's you know, you gotta go into it being like, okay. A love triangle is about to happen. And we don't actually really get that because, like, she's you know, you start where she's really into him and has been like kind of longing for him for all these years, and they've been best friends since they were five years old. And I felt a little robbed that we didn't get anything like that when they actually reunited. It was like he was overprotective for sure. We never got glimpses of like flashbacks into their friendship, and you didn't get a real strong vibe of their friendship when they were finally together. And I just like wish that that had been more fleshed out. Also, I would have liked to have seen that whole dynamic play out a lot longer. I feel like the enemies to lovers thing happened too quick.

SPEAKER_02: 22:54

I liked it. I liked it they didn't pussyfoot around with it. You know, I feel like sometimes you know it's gonna happen. And with with the fast pace of this book and this story, and like the way that it progresses so quickly, and obviously it was not boring in any way. I mean, I think it kept a really good, like exciting stride from beginning to end. Um, it definitely did that.

SPEAKER_04: 23:24

I just it felt a little too insta-loved to me because also it there's a little mating bond going on too between their dragons, and there's a lot of and that's that's kind of where I was going getting at to where I wish that that that like tension and angst would have been played up so much more because you don't get the hate part very much before they're like insta-love, but their insta-love also doesn't make sense because they don't have many scenes together where they're actually getting to know each other at all because they're always around other people. So, other than them being so horny for each other, like what what is it about Zaden that she like? I I love this man, I can't even help it. He's so fucking hot, but like why you've barely interacted with him, and the few interactions you've had, like he's been an asshole on purpose.

SPEAKER_02: 24:18

I think you're overthinking it. I I mean, you're overthinking it, man. He she saw him and just wanted more, he was dropped dead fucking gorgeous and all tatted up, and he's all buffed for being a dragon rider, and she's like, Wow, and also like he's like in control of everybody around him, he's the baddest guy there. Here's the thing I mean, it's of course she's just salivating, right?

SPEAKER_04: 24:47

But there's a difference between salivating and then like being like Lward in love, and I also think that Akitar has ruined me for things like that because also the slow burn is so satisfying when it's done right, and this is supposed to be a five-book series, so I feel like we could have maybe flushed some of those things out a little longer and like teased a little more.

SPEAKER_02: 25:11

It gives them more opportunity to go through more shit throughout their relationship. You're not stuck in this limbo forever of them just going back and forth. You know, they just did it, they just broke the freaking wardrobe. They just they just cut to the chin.

SPEAKER_04: 25:27

Don't get me wrong, I'm here for it. I just wanted a little bit more.

SPEAKER_02: 25:32

I liked it. I move a lot faster than you, obviously.

SPEAKER_04: 25:37

Is that an insult? No.

SPEAKER_05: 25:42

Oh it's a fact.

SPEAKER_04: 25:51

Okay, what did you think about the exposition dump when Violet is nervous about anything and she just basically like, here's world lore for you while I feel scared?

SPEAKER_02: 26:04

And that's kind of how I thought that was a really clever way.

SPEAKER_04: 26:09

That's that's the exact same thing I wrote down. Like, that's a really clever way to give us exposition without info dumping too hard. It and it makes in any other situation, it might come off as awkward, but like since she was a scribe and was planning to be a scribe, like it makes sense that you know she's not a equipped to handle these types of stressful situations because like she's never trained for this sort of thing, and then just to be like a bookworm and have all this knowledge in her head. So I thought that was kind of a clever vessel to drop some information.

SPEAKER_02: 26:42

I I actually thought I didn't write it down, but I thought I thought that that was a clever way to keep it from being stale, too. Like sometimes I feel that the way that people have discussions and they're revealing lore during the conversation is very unrealistic.

SPEAKER_04: 27:03

And it's like on vampire diaries when they like recap the whole like last week's episode in the conversation. Oh yeah, and it's just like in case you missed uh last week's episode of the vampire diaries, we're gonna have a whole scene just because Catherine's in the tomb, or like they'll just like and we all know that the only way is is to do this and this and this and this. So, of course, we have to do this and this and this and this and this. Like, yeah, we know we were there. Everyone is on the same page, as the way, like, that's how they do an exposition dump by just like rehashing the plot but to each other in a way that doesn't feel organic.

SPEAKER_01: 27:48

We cannot start talking about vampire all night. I mean, let's go back.

SPEAKER_02: 27:55

So I thought she did a great job of that.

SPEAKER_04: 27:58

Yeah, I don't know about you, but the second we were able to hear Terran, in my mind, Terran is Liam Neeson's voice.

SPEAKER_02: 28:07

I always think Sean Connery because of uh Dragonheart. Or the guy's voice from Merlin. Did you ever watch that show, Merlin?

SPEAKER_04: 28:18

Oh yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 28:19

That was a BBC show, I think.

SPEAKER_04: 28:21

Yeah. Yeah, I just I just pictured Liam Neeson's voice every time we heard Terran. He would be a good dragon voice, I think right. Also, I love how I love how sassy he is.

SPEAKER_02: 28:34

Right. I liked when he was when he said, should I get the wing later?

unknown: 28:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 28:42

One thing I I wrote down that I really loved was that even though Dane is her like her closest friend, I love that she was always calling him out immediately and didn't kowtow to him and his authority or experience, like being in the the quadrant or whatever. Like she just like hands him his ass all the time.

SPEAKER_02: 29:00

I'm like, yeah, fuck you, Dane. Well, there were some of the things that I think some of his concerns, Dane's concerns, are valid. They are to a degree. I wrote down that Zaydan says, All right, this is all referencing the things they say in the book about who survives that count goes into the writer's quadrant. But out of 500 or so people, 67 died on the parapet. This is just in Violet's year. 67 died on the parapet. Uh, usually it's around 15% out of 500 people die on the parapet every year. Yeah. Half of the remaining will die this year. This in their second year, a third of that, and third year, a third of that, leaving out of 575 down to 27. 27 people out of 500 will graduate the writer's quadrant and survive all four years of Basguy College.

SPEAKER_04: 30:05

Okay, so that that brings me to another uh point that I wanted to talk about. The fact that this structure makes absolutely no sense. They're always talking about how limited their resources are and how desperately they need people in this military college. And I guess it just like makes no sense that they're just like willing to let the majority of them die. Just even like crossing the parapet, like you're just gonna like whoopsie a slip. I guess we're down a hundred uh candidates, like and they're just like letting them kill each other, like without any sort of repercussions, really. It just doesn't make any sense. Like, wouldn't you want to establish some camaraderie in your military?

SPEAKER_02: 30:56

I think you're making a lot of really good points.

SPEAKER_04: 30:58

Like it doesn't make it doesn't make any sense.

SPEAKER_02: 31:04

No, it doesn't make sense.

SPEAKER_04: 31:06

No, it doesn't make sense, and like even like the teachers are like trying to kill off other people's quadrant so that they can be the best one. It's like, aren't we all supposed to be on the same team? Like, like everybody's so worried about the griffins and the things like oh no, the wards are failing. We need all the people that we can get. Let's let half of them die just walking through that over college day one. Why build a gate?

SPEAKER_01: 31:36

Put up a guardrail, like why? It's a test. It's a test. They still have to do it even if it's random. Well, you were too far back in the line.

SPEAKER_04: 31:54

Like, literally, no matter who you are, anybody can just slip and fall. You could be fucking like as she points out in the end, like Liam was the best and strongest in the year. But also, can we talk about like why he had to die because it doesn't make sense, like a the dragon dies, so you just uh are a perfectly healthy person, then you just die because your dragon dies like they never explain it and it doesn't make any sense.

SPEAKER_02: 32:20

They did make a reference to when you are officially bonded and like accept the bond, it it links you in a magical way, so it must be it must be part of the magic link.

SPEAKER_04: 32:34

Well, yeah, but but it doesn't work both ways because their writer can die and they don't die. Well, they can die. Well, they can die because like more of like because of a broken heart, like it's their choice almost, not like Liam's like, oh shit, my dragon died. I only have a few minutes left to live, even though I'm like a perfectly healthy person, yeah, who's uninjured.

SPEAKER_02: 32:58

I think too that I mean there's a really clear message that the dragons in general are extremely powerful and strong, and even the magic that you channel comes from your dragon, like everything magical about these people comes from their dragon, right?

SPEAKER_04: 33:17

And I get that. I just wish they would have explained or she would have explained that more because it's like a a rider or a rider without their dragon is dead. It's like okay, but why? Other than because magic.

SPEAKER_02: 33:32

Well, maybe it's part of the bond or the magical bond that they forge with you. I don't I don't know, but I don't know either.

SPEAKER_01: 33:42

And I was like, that's dumb. But that is a possibility, I think.

SPEAKER_04: 33:48

One thing I just didn't get was why when you find out that that amber chick basically like sicked all those guys on Violet and let them into her room, when she outs her, then she tries to save her. Why why? Like she tried to kill you. Like, why are you like, oh shit, uh never mind, don't get her in trouble.

SPEAKER_02: 34:13

Well, Violet has a soft heart.

SPEAKER_04: 34:16

It I have a soft heart too, but if someone tried to fucking murder me and send in like six armed people to slip my throat in my sleep, I would not be having like this, like, oh, maybe we can get over our differences. Maybe we just need to like have a heart to heart and just like talk about our problems.

SPEAKER_02: 34:38

No, but it's it's quite a big thing to say I sentenced them to death.

SPEAKER_04: 34:45

I mean, well, I mean, maybe in a normal setting, but this college, like people die left and right just from like spraining their ankle and falling off a cliff.

SPEAKER_02: 34:53

So commonplace that it's not even I think too that part of that was that she knew that Dane was close with her and that you know they were but that's another thing too.

SPEAKER_04: 35:05

It's like Dane immediately was more willing to believe this amber chick than his best friend of his entire life.

SPEAKER_02: 35:12

Well, yeah, but if he's thinking he's just gonna question it if he's thinking, oh my gosh, they're gonna kill her, my friend.

SPEAKER_04: 35:19

Right again, another reason why this college makes no sense, their rules make no sense. Like, yeah, maybe attempted attempted murder, like maybe you should go to jail.

SPEAKER_02: 35:30

It's the dragons who make the rules. They don't, they clearly don't they do make the rules. Oh, here's the thing. How much of a bitch is Violet Soringel's mom?

SPEAKER_04: 35:44

Oh, I I okay, here's I have a couple of I have a couple of theories. Number one, I wrote down a couple times I think Mama Sorengell is sus. Like she she knows what's she knows what's up. Also, her mom's power is to control storms, and the first day on the parapet, there's a storm. I'm like, why are you trying to kill your daughter?

SPEAKER_02: 36:08

Maybe it's not her daughter.

SPEAKER_04: 36:10

Maybe she knows what's up and knows that, or maybe thought that Violet would figure shit out as a scribe and want because like it made no sense to you think she knows about Brennan. I don't think she knows about Brennan, but I think that she knows a lot about a lot of things, and I think that she's not on team good. I think that there's a reason other than vanity that she sent Violet to the writers because also her dad has been dead for a while, but let her continue to train as a scribe when she never planned on letting her go to the scribes, like she literally throws it on her at the last second, like, oh, by the way, tomorrow's conscription day and you're going, and not letting her train or prepare in any sort of way.

SPEAKER_02: 37:03

And even Mira to be like family pride, like military.

SPEAKER_04: 37:09

Right, which I okay, like, but then like why not do that the second her dad was out of the picture? Be like, okay, change of plans, you're gonna be going to the the writers, start training now. Because even Mira was like, she's gonna die day one, like she can barely carry a backpack. Like, what do you like? You just like rather her die as as that than to just not like be alive as a scrap, like it doesn't make sense. So I feel like there's something more going on there that yeah, she's a bitch. That's yeah, because she's a bitch, but I also think that she has an agenda, and I also think I don't think that her dad's death was an accident.

SPEAKER_02: 37:46

I don't know.

SPEAKER_04: 37:47

I I'm curious to find out in Iron Flame what what's going on there because you have a sense of him knowing something as a big maybe if he doesn't know everything, he knows something because in that book that he gave Violet, and then there was that secret note inside of it.

SPEAKER_02: 38:06

Isn't isn't that so similar to Shadow and Bone? It's it reminds me of Shadow and Bone, like the old fables. Like, I I feel like there's gonna be something that has to do with the fables.

SPEAKER_04: 38:20

Well, yeah, well, because obviously, like we learned that like the venom are real in all of these things for someone uh who's known each other for most of their lives. Like Dane does not know her very well. No, well, like and he has like no faith in her. Like you pointed out with those statistics, the fact that she even made it through the parapet is like a feat, and so she like keeps winning all these things and keeps like proving herself. And if anything, he becomes more and more Tamliny-the farther along we get, like the more she accomplishes, the more he tries to like get behind me this way. I'll lead you.

SPEAKER_02: 38:57

Like I hate it, I hate it that he openly admitted that he wouldn't have fucking saved her.

SPEAKER_04: 39:04

Yes, uh, exactly die. I also kind of wanted to know, like, okay, for you are willing to let your best friend and supposedly the woman you love die for the rules, and like what what is it that makes him that hardcore about the codex that he would be willing to let Violet fucking die?

SPEAKER_02: 39:26

I think he just is has a very high sense of duty. He's gonna live by the rules.

SPEAKER_04: 39:33

I mean, there's duty, but then there's this is another thing I mean, like, it doesn't make any sense. You're not allowed to just step in and like you're in school, like this is a college of school, like you're not just gonna like try for general safety, and I just it doesn't make sense.

SPEAKER_02: 39:52

Welcome to Dawnless.

SPEAKER_04: 39:55

It's like on uh what is it? The like the Dharma initiative. It's just like why though? Because the end. I kind of wanted there to be something other in the middle of her kind of doing something other than poisoning her potential uh pair pair-ups. I'm like, you can't keep writing her out of every fight with like I'm gonna poison you today, so that I can like she basically cheating, she's cheating her way through. And like I get that at the beginning, like for the first couple ones.

SPEAKER_01: 40:30

I kind of wanted like a obvious, it would be so obvious to everyone for the first time.

SPEAKER_04: 40:37

First one, second one, okay, maybe, but we're like five people deep of just like, oh, I accidentally got poisoned today for no reason. I can't find her.

SPEAKER_01: 40:47

Oh, I'm feeling nauseous just as I step onto the mat. And then Violet's just like, what? Oh, oh what no. Kids are vomiting blood.

SPEAKER_04: 41:02

I really kind of wanted like a Mulan B uh man montage of her just you know starting out really weak and getting strong, but no, and then we get to the jack fight, and then she still uses the point or he's allergic to oranges.

unknown: 41:18

Come on.

SPEAKER_01: 41:19

And then going back to the poison, it's it's so unsatisfying.

SPEAKER_04: 41:24

Like, I wanted her to kick his ass, and at this point, and then she's earned it because she's like actually been training and practicing with like Imoget and stuff. I wanted her to genuinely kick his ass, and then she still had to fucking resort to the point because he was allergic to oranges. That's so lame.

SPEAKER_00: 41:45

She blew him up though.

SPEAKER_04: 41:48

She killed him. Did she? I I I don't know. I I mock me. I think that we have not seen the last of Jack. I think he's gonna show up as a venom later. If Game of Thrones have taught me anything, like if I don't see a body, then they're not dead yet. I don't think he's dead.

SPEAKER_02: 42:08

I I guess we'll find out. There's supposed to be six of these, you said five.

SPEAKER_04: 42:14

I loved Mira. I love big sis Mira. I really wanted to see more of her. Like when they went out to their little expedition beyond the wall or wherever, and Mira was there. I was like, Yes, I love her, and I also love the way that she also handed Dane his ass.

SPEAKER_02: 42:35

Yeah, I I really didn't care about her.

SPEAKER_04: 42:38

I liked her. I really wanted to see more of her because she was very no nonsense, she was protective of Violet without being condescending, you know.

SPEAKER_02: 42:48

The entire book I just wanted to hear from Zaydan. I was uh that that's why I was there. I was like, okay, I I want to hear from Zaydan. I want to know what's going on with Zaydan. That was me the whole time.

SPEAKER_04: 43:02

I I agree. I also wish like you betrayed me and I'm never gonna be with you. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02: 43:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_04: 43:10

I oh I was like, oh my god, she's gonna be such a teenager about this for obvious reasons. He couldn't, and also you've been together for like five minutes and you're mad that he hasn't told you the biggest secret that can not only get him killed, but a bajillion other people killed.

SPEAKER_02: 43:26

That Dane would know about if he had told her just from their last encounter together. And now he didn't know that information. It makes complete sense. In a way, he did it for her protection.

SPEAKER_04: 43:40

No, right. Like he's totally justified on on every single level. And it's annoying that she doesn't see that, even though with the fact that like she accidentally gave Dane information when he touched her.

SPEAKER_02: 43:53

Well, I think that I think it's just the author trying to establish discord in their Relationship.

SPEAKER_04: 44:00

I mean, yeah, but like don't be a teenager about it.

SPEAKER_02: 44:04

I I know. That's like there's there's there's plants.

SPEAKER_04: 44:10

Well, yeah, that's what I mean. Like when I when I say like it gets kind of YA sometimes because she's just so first boyfriend. Like, oh my god, you don't trust me with every single thing, and your whole entire life, like we can't be together. Oh, I really wish that Dane had been around well early on. I was like, why isn't he around for anything? He didn't even go and see her at the gauntlet, and he wasn't even like she like kicked ass and he wasn't even there. Like he's so worried about her all the time, and then just didn't even show up for that. Like, what's the deal?

SPEAKER_02: 44:51

Um, I was annoyed that Dane's name was Dane, because that is a stupid name. And it immediately makes me think of this kid named Dane that used to go to church with us.

SPEAKER_04: 45:03

Oh my god, I forgot about him. Dane.

SPEAKER_02: 45:07

Dane. Oh my god. Dane came in.

SPEAKER_04: 45:12

Oh my god, that's weird. I forgot about it.

SPEAKER_02: 45:14

And he was there for like he was there for like three months. He he did not stick around. That is so weird. I forgot all about him. So I kept picturing his face every time like that name came up. That's weird.

SPEAKER_04: 45:32

That's so funny. I'm gonna kind of circle back to something before, but like with with Violet doing all of the the poisoning and things, and they talk about it a lot. And so I also I think that her dad maybe got poisoned, and I think that maybe I think that Violet's gonna figure it out because I don't I don't know. I don't think it was an accident. If her mom really wanted her in the writers, the only thing keeping her from that was her dad.

SPEAKER_02: 46:04

Well, here's the thing: if that's true, why did she poison him? Like, was he going into the rebellion or something?

SPEAKER_04: 46:14

Yeah, I think that maybe he was gonna out it.

SPEAKER_02: 46:17

She was trying to prevent him from shaming her, from shaming the family.

SPEAKER_04: 46:22

Well, yeah, well, because her entire reputation would be on the line, because if everybody knew what was really going on, then that it completely crumbles not only certain people, but just their whole society and everything that is common belief in their like world about things.

SPEAKER_02: 46:40

And I just wondered too if she wanted to take her out of the scribes quadrant, if maybe that had something to do like with that's what I'm saying. Like she's forcing her into the people that when the pe the people that are in the this the scribe quadrant, maybe they know a lot more about the situation, and she's trying to keep her away from those people.

SPEAKER_04: 47:03

Maybe that's possible because I I think that her dad maybe discovered it and maybe confronted her about it. Because, like, there's no way if her dad didn't know, because her mom obviously knows about at least an element of this, right? As like the second in command of all of the things. Like, there's no way there's no way that her mom doesn't know at least a fraction of relationships.

SPEAKER_02: 47:35

Here's the thing like, do they have a king and a queen? Oh wait, that's another thing I wanted to talk about. What do you get the writer's answer to? Like the the whole writer militia thing. Who are they just independent?

SPEAKER_04: 47:49

Right, like there nothing about this world actually makes sense. Like, there's a king, and then there's a viscount, and then she's like, wait, we don't have viscounts in our monarchy. Even she's like, wait, this doesn't even make sense, and I live here.

SPEAKER_02: 48:01

I don't, yeah, that's weird. I don't know what's going on there because it gives off like maybe they're apart. It's very medieval feeling sometimes with the dragons, and then it is, but then it's not because like everybody's just like, oh my god, we're a hot mess.

SPEAKER_04: 48:17

Bring in the dragons. The juxtaposition also just like clashed at times. I'm like, I'm here, I'm here for what's happening, but just like make it make sense within the world that you've established.

SPEAKER_02: 48:33

She doesn't really talk about. I read the thing three times, and I'm telling you, she didn't talk about the government or any of that kind of stuff. No, it's very vague, and there's a king talk about battles and and things like that, but she didn't talk about their system of democracy or lack thereof or how it works, if it's like a dynasty, a lineage. Uh I mean, yeah, that information's not present. And I'm wondering if we're gonna get more of that because maybe she was sheltered in a lot of ways, you know, she was kind of like homeschooled or whatever, scribe schooled. Yeah, well, you know what I mean. And so I think that that's gonna come into play too. I agree.

SPEAKER_04: 49:24

One thing that I I I wrote down, it's very walk to remember. Like the first thing I thought of when when Dane was or not Dane, um Zaydan was like, Don't fall for me. I was like, okay, Mandy Moore. Like, whatever you do, don't fall in love with me. I hate that. Like, way to take the spice and dump a bucket of ice cold water over it.

SPEAKER_02: 49:50

Way to like say that and be completely defendant dependent, defendant, completely defendant, completely dependent on her, like five days later, right? Like, completely, I can't live without you.

SPEAKER_04: 50:06

Well, yes, and then like you will love me again, like it's fine, it's fine. Like, I love you too. Like, like, don't fall, like, whatever you do, don't fall for me. It's like, why? Because we're we're literally saddled with each other for the rest of our lives in many different ways. Why wouldn't you want a benefit of just like shacking up too? It didn't really make sense for him to say it, and it was just so cringy for him to say it. She has standards, and I all I can think of is a walk to remember and Mandy Moore being like, just don't fall in love with me. And the follow-up to that was just it was so cringy. I I was like, oh did okay, did you guess figured out or guess when the war games was happening and they get sent to Athbean, Athabine, or wherever that place is? Dane clearly knows what's about to happen. And I was like, something bad is about to happen with this war games thing, and whatever it is, Dane knows about it. When he was like, I'll miss you, Violet, and he was pissed off because he just figured out that her and Zaydan are like together, and he's like, What? You're fucking kidding this guy, really? Fine. I'll miss you, Violet. Like, I was like, Oh, he knows, and he does not expect to see her again. He was like saying goodbye. I was like, fucking Dane. He fucking knows like whatever's about to happen. I don't know what it is, but he knows. Dane sucks. Dane sucks.

SPEAKER_02: 51:49

I can't believe he would just like openly send her to her death.

SPEAKER_04: 51:52

That's yeah, that's what I mean. Like, why like and I get that his father is like a colonel or whatever, but it's like, are you that much of a pussy that you just like you would let your you would send your best friend and who you supposedly love to their death.

SPEAKER_02: 52:08

Like he could have like come up with an excuse or Sadan is like his arch nemesis, kind of, even though he's totally not, but it's but he's only that because of Violet, right? Well, exactly, and then he finds out, oh my god, you're with this guy, this guy really is that he had his chance and he was like literally like, I love you, but I can't, I won't be with you because you know it's frowned upon the rules. Well, yeah, well, that's what I mean. Uh Dane is very military-minded, he he wants to do everything by the book, right?

SPEAKER_04: 52:47

But like, how it doesn't, I mean, you how are you gonna get mad at her being with someone else when you straight up said you weren't gonna be with her?

SPEAKER_02: 52:56

Right, yeah.

unknown: 52:58

I agree.

SPEAKER_02: 52:58

Like you don't get to you don't get to well, because it's Zayden, though. That's why it's it's Zaiden, it's that guy that smirks at you and makes snug comments, but is always just a little bit better than you, you know, in just every way, and then you get the girl, not only the girl, his girl, the girl he's been growing up with, and he's probably been in love with forever. Yeah, he's he's being Jacob right now. He yeah, very Jacoby, um, but in a much more dickbag kind of way.

SPEAKER_04: 53:33

Way more he was gonna let her die. He knew, and he was like, What I'll miss him.

SPEAKER_02: 53:39

So he's such a hypocrite because he's constantly paranoid that she's gonna get hurt or maimed or killed, and he he literally puts her in harm's way.

SPEAKER_04: 53:50

Yeah, a hundred percent. I thought the exact same thing. Oh, now you're not worried because like because he he wants to be like the savior, he wants her to still be weak, he wants to be the like, I'll save you, just stand behind me.

SPEAKER_02: 54:08

He thinks that Violet is supposed to be in a certain category, and that he's not comfortable with her when she goes outside the box that he's put her in in his head, totally, and yeah, fuck you though.

SPEAKER_04: 54:23

He doesn't respect her at all or give her any credit for all of the things that she's accomplished there. Not once did he ever go, like, wow, I was so scared, and like you're actually like super badass. I'm really proud of you. Like, never once did he say anything even close to that.

SPEAKER_02: 54:39

I also thought the uh the time stopping element was very, very similar to a court this cruel and lovely. Oh, I haven't read that yet. Almost well, that's I mean, you know, I'm not really spoiling anything because you know from the very beginning, but sh she can stop time. That's her uh ability in that book, and it's very, very similar, almost shockingly similar to that in this book. That's what I mean, like that kind of stuff got on my nerves throughout the book because I could just tell that she pulled from so many different things that are already there, you know.

SPEAKER_04: 55:26

Even even her hair, like um Daenerys much with the dragons and the silver hair. And Daenerys has violet eyes, and her name is Violet. I didn't even know it sprained any muscles there. Your face is red. I between the wine and then being mad at Dane and violence, I might it's so interesting though, because like that was like either Lita hates this as much as I do, if not more, or she loves it.

SPEAKER_02: 56:03

Well, I was actually I thought you were gonna have a lot more bad things to say.

SPEAKER_04: 56:10

And I kind of came into it on like I wouldn't say that offensive, but I was concerned that you hated it and that I loved it because I didn't I didn't hate it, but like there were things about it that I did hate um or or was disappointed in and wished uh for more. Like it didn't for me, it didn't live up to the hype.

SPEAKER_02: 56:32

So I I feel like I just had I had huge expectations. I knew nothing about the hype or the TikTok stuff or anything. You're the one who picked this one.

SPEAKER_04: 56:42

Just like many people that I know were like, oh my god, you have to you have to read this book, and and everybody was like losing their minds over it. And so I feel like I had really, really high expectations versus like the the horseman ones. Like I knew what I was going into, so I'm I I like them for what they are. Like, don't think about it too hard at all because you could pick it apart, but it's fun. I'm here for it. Like, but that I kind of like walk into like knowing exactly what it is, what I'm here for. The junk is a good thing.

SPEAKER_02: 57:13

If this is really gonna be five books, this is a great start. This book was really strong and compelling and kept me interested. I have read so many negative reviews about this book, though. There are people who hate this book, like really a lot. People who do not like this book at all, and gave it one star on Goodreads, and we'll kind of go into that here in a little bit.

SPEAKER_04: 57:41

Yeah. One thing that I I really wished there was more of too basically that's my biggest complaint on the uh everything as a whole. There wasn't enough of the like emotional resonance for me to like really be invested in the characters, like the story's fun, world is fun, and like pacing is really fun, and the sex is fun. It's all fun, but it kind of lacks this uh emotional depth that I just what it was right there and it's so rich. For me, it was just like, oh, missed opportunity. Like, I want more Rihanna, like we don't see much of her or get a sense of their friendship, like they're supposed to be best friends, but they kind of have like a roommate acquaintance vibe on the page because we don't see a lot of their interactions. I called a lot of the things that happened in the end, like I was not blown away by the ending. I guessed that Brennan was alive.

SPEAKER_02: 58:40

Oh, I did not, I didn't yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 58:43

When they talked about, I forget, there was some place early on in the book where I had like a little inkling of we're bringing Brennan up a lot. Interesting, interesting. And then once she gets hurt and they're like, bring her to him, I was like, it's Brennan, he's alive.

SPEAKER_02: 58:59

Well, I figured that for me, I I didn't think of it that way. I always thought of it as he that they were really close, and what happened to him really affected her, and then there's like all of this, these books and stuff that he wrote notes about the writer's quadrant and like how to survive there, and her sister gave it to her, and it's the only reading material she has. So there is obviously connection with Brennan, and I almost wondered if they were just using that as character development development for Violet, which could have been a possibility, I think, as well, which is where my head went with it.

SPEAKER_04: 59:41

So I was shocked, I was very shocked when they were like, bring bring her to him. I was like, Brennan's alive, I'm saying it now. I got on Marco Polo with my mom and my sister because I was like binge reading the end, and I was like, Oh my god, oh my god. I was like, oh my god, so many bad things are about to happen, and I don't know if I'm emotionally prepared for them. I'm like, I was like, I feel like I told her, I was like, I had to put the book down because like I feel like the rest of this book is gonna be like that soundbite, like emotional damage, emotional damage. And I was I really kind of geared myself up for that, and I was like, oh, I didn't need to be that afraid. I I kind of called everything. I was like, Liam's gonna die, like we haven't lost anyone important. Liam's probably gonna be the one to bite the dust. And I didn't care that much because we didn't get to know anybody that well.

SPEAKER_02: 1:00:37

Yeah, I agree with that. I feel this is the beginning of those characters' stories. You uh you don't really know a lot about them yet.

SPEAKER_04: 1:00:47

Uh yeah, but like Violet is devastated, and because there is a lot of fast-forwarding, like five weeks later, we did this. So, like a lot of time is passing that Violet is building up relationships with these people, we just don't get to see it. So, like for me, Liam's death, it was like, uh, but that's about the level of uh reaction that I had to that.

SPEAKER_02: 1:01:09

I th I thought it was sad. I mean, I thought it was sad too, but I like interesting to see how they die if they're dragonized.

SPEAKER_04: 1:01:18

Yeah, I mean, I I guess again, I was just preparing myself for some really traumatic things because like I've seen friends of mine like post videos of them reading it. I think I sent one to you weeping, like ugly cry, sobbing. And so I was yeah, over the and I was like that's a little intense. So I was like really going into the end of this book. Oh my god, everything is gonna happen. I'm not ready. What's gonna happen? Like, I was just mentally and emotionally preparing myself for a lot more than actually happened.

SPEAKER_02: 1:01:51

Well, the only one I really care about is Zayden, so I was feeling pretty good going into that. Yeah, like he I was thinking, man, we're we're kind of early to be losing Zaidan. I think I'm good. Yeah, he's not going anywhere. There are five books. She has she released the cover art for the third book yet? I think so. They announced the name of it. I forget it. It's like Onyx Storm. Oh yeah, Onyx Storm.

SPEAKER_04: 1:02:19

Yeah. I have a lot of tabs for quotes. Do you have cringe quotes? I have two quotes. Of the whole book? Yes.

SPEAKER_05: 1:02:30

What?

SPEAKER_02: 1:02:31

Yes, I only have two. So you're gonna be leading the trumpet on this one. Okay, I have Do you have any cringe quotes ever? I have I have one cringe quote and I have one favorite quote, and those are the quotes that I have.

SPEAKER_00: 1:02:48

Well, I I look at mine. Oh Jesus. Wow.

SPEAKER_04: 1:02:58

I I I really wanted you to be on my level like last time. We had a lot of quotes last time.

SPEAKER_02: 1:03:05

I just felt like this was more of a fun read. I didn't pick up on stuff the same way I did last time and connect with a lot of like you said, sometimes it's very YA and it's not super deep. So I I really didn't I only highlighted the stuff that made me laugh out loud. Or what's your favorite quote? My favorite quote One day we will have the same favorite quote. One day, and I doubt it's today. Probably not. Okay, my favorite quote is on page 378, and it's at the very bottom of the page, the last line in my book, which is shut up and fuck me, Ryerson.

SPEAKER_04: 1:03:53

Oh my god, that's your favorite quote of the book.

SPEAKER_01: 1:03:58

Shut up and fuck me, Ryerson. Oh, okay. Do you want to do something embarrassing?

SPEAKER_02: 1:04:05

No, that's well, I mean, that was my favorite quote. I was like, ooh.

SPEAKER_04: 1:04:09

Um, how about the first half of the book? I did not pronounce his name that way in my head. What did you say in your head? I don't want to say it now. For the first half of the book, I I pronounced it Riorson. And then I put the audiobook on because I was behind, and I like had a lot of shit to do that day. I was like, I'll just listen to it for a little bit, and then it was like Ryerson. I'm like, oh, that's not how I was I was saying Zaydan Reorson.

SPEAKER_02: 1:04:49

That's the fun thing about listening to audiobooks, you don't have to think so hard about the names. Because sometimes, especially in the fantasy genre, the names get kind of crazy.

SPEAKER_04: 1:04:59

They do, but like it that's kind of how it's spelled. Like I can get Ryerson, but I just immediately went to Reorson. Am I alone in this? Maybe, maybe, maybe at least one other person um pronounced it that way.

SPEAKER_02: 1:05:15

So, what's your favorite quote?

SPEAKER_04: 1:05:17

My favorite quote. I had a couple favorites. I wrote two down for my faves. My first one was on page 184, and it was when she had bonded both of the dragons, and Dane was like telling her that she had to choose one, and it goes, My mouth opens, then shut like a fish out of water as I search for any reply that isn't fuck off. And then my other favorite quote was when she's telling Dane off, they both Dane related, her just like telling Dane off or wanting to tell Dane off. It's on page 286, and she says, I know you just want to keep. Me safe, Dane, but keeping me safe is keeping me from growing too.

SPEAKER_02: 1:06:05

Oh, I like that.

SPEAKER_04: 1:06:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:06:07

Well, my only other quotes are on page 278, and they're sexually related things. And and I mean, this just I don't know, it just made me look-I have one on 278 too. What's yours? Oh, okay. It's like describing the sex. Kissing you would be a cataclysmic mistake. Calamitous! Calamitous! The inches between us feel like kindling, ready to burn at the first suggestion of heat. And I'm a living, breathing flame. This is everything I should run from, and yet denying the primal attraction I feel is completely, utterly impossible. And then on page 279, she describes their kissing as we're a tangle of tongues and teeth. I thought that that was very odd. You never want the teeth clashing moment when you're I know, you don't want to have a teeth clash. Like you never want the teeth. Where you're like wondering, oh my god, did they knock it loose?

SPEAKER_04: 1:07:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:07:22

Anyway, those are all my quotes.

SPEAKER_04: 1:07:24

My mine for mine from that page was he tastes like churum and mint. Like everything I'm not supposed to want. Like, what is churum? I I literally googled it and no one knows. Like, she just made it up, and we have no context for this word.

SPEAKER_05: 1:07:44

We have no context for what this is.

SPEAKER_02: 1:07:50

I thought you said churros for a second. I was like, I know that's not right.

SPEAKER_01: 1:07:54

Like B-H-U-R-A-M, churram, churiam. He tastes like churram and mit.

SPEAKER_02: 1:08:02

Did you spell it right when you tapped it in the goo?

SPEAKER_04: 1:08:05

Yeah. And everybody's like, what does churum from fourth wing mean? So apparently I'm not the first one with this question. No one knows.

SPEAKER_02: 1:08:16

It just well, maybe it's part she's still writing the lore on that.

SPEAKER_04: 1:08:20

I guess, but we like we have no context for this word in. Like, did I maybe I missed it? Let us let us know if if you know. So here's here's a few of my French quotes. Maybe I won't read them all because I have I have quite it, quite a few. It was at the very beginning when she like first meets Zaydan. In my brain, I'm in medieval land with dragons and parapets and turrets and and then she like sees him and she it's on page 19, and she's like, even the diagonal scar that bisects his left eyebrow and marks the top of corner of his cheek only makes him hotter, flaming hot, scorching hot, gets you into trouble, and you like it. Level of hot. Like, how old are you? Page 109. My breath catches and my body warms. The traitorous bitch. You are not attracted to toxic men. I remind myself, and yet here I am getting all attracted.

SPEAKER_02: 1:09:22

That's a good one. I like that one. I wouldn't say that it's like a real enemies to lovers. Like the enemies is very short-lived.

SPEAKER_04: 1:09:32

It's very short-lived. And that's what I wish was more flesh out because they have every reason to be enemies. Like he is responsible for her brother's death. Her mother killed his father. It's there for them to hate each other. And I kind of was waiting for like a it wasn't until she basically is dying at the end that he realizes, like, oh shit, I actually have feelings for her, and I don't want to have them.

SPEAKER_02: 1:09:55

They just lean very much into both of them have been completely eclipsed and shadowed over their parents' choices as well. Yeah. They've had to basically like take on the sins of their father. I mean, especially with what happens with Zaidan, how he basically had to get a slash on his skin for each child from the rebellious parents that got to live. And yeah, the only way they have to, they're required to go into the the writer's quadrant. They don't have a choice, or they'll be to death.

SPEAKER_04: 1:10:34

Like and then, and then that again begs the question like that also doesn't make sense, like from a strategic military. So, like, we will force you into our military and you have every reason to betray us, but we'll just like let you into our military because we're running out of people because we just let all of our candidates die for some reason. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02: 1:10:53

Well, I'm wondering if there is gonna be more than just the dragons, like, there's obviously gonna be armies too, and who are those people loyal to? And well, and then we're gonna learn more about that, and obviously, in a coming book of some kind, because we're going now we're going outside from the end of fourth wing, we're going outside of the world of the school, outside of the control of her mother. Because even though she's in the writer's quadrant, her mother is there. Everybody's always been watching her and telling her what to do, and she's been sheltered to know only the things they want her to know. So now she is gonna be going out and she's gonna learn about all these things that have been brainwashed out of her, and not even just her, but their whole society and culture in general, like not just Violet. Yes, and so I'm really interested to see what the world is actually like. Uh, it kind of reminds me a little bit of Red Rising or like the Matrix, where yeah, like right now, we the whole time we've been below the surface, but there's a whole world above it.

SPEAKER_04: 1:12:05

I was gonna respond to that because we also get a glimpse that Zaiden is obviously working with the Griffin riders to an extent. So I feel like we're gonna uncover a lot of that dynamic, which will be fun.

SPEAKER_02: 1:12:18

Yeah, and I think we're gonna learn a lot more about the I don't know what are we what are they called? The the ones with the red eyes that are all fucked up.

SPEAKER_04: 1:12:27

Venon. Venon. Okay, I'm I'm saying it now. I I don't think that Jack is for real dead. I think that if anybody was gonna harness the dark powers to like sell their soul to stay alive, it would be him. I'm just saying it. I think I think that he'll be back.

SPEAKER_02: 1:12:45

I think that Zaden and Violet will definitely end up together for sure. I mean, they are together. I mean, I think that's gonna be like a consistent thing. It's gonna be like a very on-again, off again, tumultuous.

SPEAKER_04: 1:13:01

I I just really hope it doesn't stay in like this teenager drama angle on Violet's end, because that is gonna get annoying really quick if that happens. Um I I have a few more quotes if you're up for it. Yeah, I want to hear ones that I like and ones also that I didn't like, or cringe quotes. This one I really loved of Tarn. Like, I just love Tarn's snarkiness, right? At the uh is it page 171? He's like, You're making us look bad. Stop it. Like, stop being dumb. You're making us look bad. I love Tarn. I loved it when Mira chewed out Dane. That was one of my favorite scenes, honestly.

SPEAKER_02: 1:13:42

Yeah, fuck Dane. Fuck Dane. And Darna sounds like a little girl in my head. I know, and Darna's so cute.

SPEAKER_04: 1:13:51

Here's here's one that they say she says this more than once, and I think it's just Who's she, Violet? Yeah, like she says it out loud and she says it to herself.

SPEAKER_00: 1:14:03

Like, I'm gonna climb him like a tree, and then on page two says so weird, and then on 276, she literally says it to his face.

SPEAKER_02: 1:14:17

Like that reminds me of Melissa McCartney and Bridesmaids, because she says that in Bride Queen.

SPEAKER_04: 1:14:23

He's just like super modern, like within like the last few years of things. I'm like, this is this shouldn't be showing up in my fantasy book. Um 276, she says it to his face. Would you pretty pretty please teach me how to shield before I accidentally climb you like a tree? And we both wake up with regrets. That's a cringy line. It's so cringy, it's so cringy, it's embarrassing. I feel embarrassed for her. And when they say things out loud to each other, that's like so awkward. Like when she says, You haven't exactly been around to talk about anything in weeks. If I didn't know better, I'd think that that kiss just scared you. But one look and my temperature rises.

SPEAKER_03: 1:15:24

Like it's just so teenager, like it's just so like hormonal.

SPEAKER_02: 1:15:29

Not even giving teenager, it's giving like preteen, like exactly.

SPEAKER_04: 1:15:33

Like, that's like, and then the sex is so hot that it's hard to reconcile this type of inner monologue with what actually happens because it's so juvenile, it's so cringy, and some of it she says out loud to his face, and it kills me a little bit.

SPEAKER_02: 1:15:54

I love it though, because she just is so sassy, but it's not it's very entertaining though. Violet's an entertaining character, yeah. I she's cringy a lot to me. She's very combative with everybody. I mean, I don't mind a good combative, yeah, except that she's combative with everybody, and everyone is obsessed with her.

SPEAKER_04: 1:16:18

Or like when she says when they're on the mat, he he says, like, unless you don't know how to handle an opponent on top of you, and if so, that's a whole nother issue. And she's all like, I know how to handle you on top of me.

SPEAKER_03: 1:16:35

Oh, it's so it's so bad, it's so cringy.

SPEAKER_04: 1:16:38

There's all this like sexual tension, and I'm like, yes, yes, yes, and then she says something like that, and I'm like, ugh.

SPEAKER_02: 1:16:49

Really showing your age, freshman. Oh, and I thought it was like so obvious that Zayden was not with that chick that she was upset about. Oh, I know. They they were never even together hardly, or like you know, they didn't do anything that was flirty or anything.

SPEAKER_04: 1:17:08

She was just jealous because she like did you see that?

SPEAKER_02: 1:17:18

No, I pushed a butt. I pushed a button on my chair and I just literally slammed into the floor.

SPEAKER_00: 1:17:24

Oh, I I choked on my own spit and I was joking.

SPEAKER_02: 1:17:30

What is going on, universe? Oh my god. This is literally the first time I've sat in this chair. So don't press that button.

SPEAKER_04: 1:17:40

Don't don't press the button. So speaking of cringe, who else thought it was cringe? Let's hear some one-stars.

SPEAKER_02: 1:17:47

Okay, so I wrote down a bunch of one-star reviews that I got off the internet for Fourth Wing. So I'm just gonna read some of them out loud. Mia says the amount of time I cringed was insane. I'd rather stick molten hot needles in my eyes than read the sequel.

SPEAKER_04: 1:18:09

Well, I I can concur on the cringe because the cringe cringe level midnight sometimes with this book. Cringe level midnight.

SPEAKER_02: 1:18:19

Cringe level midnight. Um honestly, Sophie says Zadan definitely wears skinny jeans. You know he wears eyeliner too. I'm not sure. I thought it was very confusing. Um Walking Tragedy says I could so take a guy named Zaydan in a fight. Uh Georgie says my therapist will be hearing about this. Not really sure what kind of therapy. Steph says, we get it, she's short. I did feel like she referenced her height a lot. She did.

SPEAKER_04: 1:19:26

And in a weird way, I felt very connected to that because I'm short and no one's ever short in books.

SPEAKER_02: 1:19:34

The last one I have is Gillian says, Um, this is Violet. I was born with glass bones and paper skin. Every morning I break my legs, and every afternoon I break my arms. At night, they awake in agony until my heart attacks put me to sleep. Zaydan enters and says, Hello, favorite darling.

SPEAKER_04: 1:19:58

I like that one.

SPEAKER_02: 1:19:59

That one was funny.

SPEAKER_04: 1:20:01

Those were good. I did like uh the element that uh Violet was not only at a disadvantage because obviously she was like a a scribe or whatever, but like in ways that she can't control at a disadvantage, like physically, like her condition just automatically puts her at a disadvantage that she has zero control over no matter how much she trains or or whatever. Someone who deals with like a chronic issue physically, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:20:30

Well, and also you're short, so you probably related to that.

SPEAKER_04: 1:20:34

I I relate to being short. You're like, you know what? Yeah, I am that height. Um, we also have um have questions from our peeps to discuss. Yeah, what are they? Because we wanted to hear from you guys. We don't have a lot of you guys yet, but those who are with us, we're gonna we're gonna get into it. Alexis wants to know, she thinks an interesting question would be if their powers are an extension of their personalities, or is it just random? Like the powers that they get from their dragons. That's a really good question.

SPEAKER_02: 1:21:10

That is a good question because uh it almost makes you think like, what was has Tarn ever bonded with anyone? He has, right? Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04: 1:21:18

Okay, the one who saved Brennan, right?

SPEAKER_00: 1:21:22

What was his nail in what was his what was his signet?

SPEAKER_04: 1:21:27

I don't remember. Did they say? If they did, I don't remember. I'll have to like look at it. And then like with Violet, oh, I just thought of this. Did does Violet's hair have something to do with her lightning power?

SPEAKER_02: 1:21:40

I don't well, that's what I was saying earlier when we were talking about like stuff that we were referencing in the book for our notes. That I think that there's that there's some kind of magical element to Violet separate from her dragon uh signet and connection, obviously because of her hair. And and they did reference, even though it was only once, and very lightly, that her mom was sick when she was pregnant, and that she drank some kind of like magical thing, and now her hair has this weird ability to change color, and so I think that that is something that's gonna come out later. There's obviously something more going on with Violet.

SPEAKER_04: 1:22:28

I agree, and then it like does it also have to do with the dragons and what their particular strengths are, and then it's as we saw with that one, I forget his name, the uh the mind reader who was like immediately killed, his power, her signet was like starting to manifest, and they're like, Oh, nope, can't have mind readers because there's too many secrets, like just snap his neck and be done with it. But he obviously had no control over it, so like what was it something about him that his personality that created that power, or was it the dragon giving him that particular power? Because obviously the dragons have powers too.

SPEAKER_02: 1:23:11

Like, which too much for the human body, though. Like, obviously, that ability when it manifested, it wasn't just that he could read everybody's thoughts around, he was literally screaming and flailing. It was it was like all these things going on at once in his ears and because he could hear everybody at once, all the thoughts immediately started to go insane.

SPEAKER_04: 1:23:35

But it's interesting, and I think that maybe we might see maybe more of that later because they said it's like strictly forbidden to have that power, but like they they don't have a protocol for like isolating that person and teaching them how to control it and so just like straight up killing them. Damn, uh they're not very merciful.

SPEAKER_02: 1:23:56

No, but but why? I well, it's just a death sentence, like it's an immediate put them down, yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 1:24:04

Which it it seems so unfair because it's obviously completely out of his control.

SPEAKER_02: 1:24:10

Obviously, it's very painful. I almost wonder if certain signets when they manifest are too much for the their body, their human body to handle. They're not strong enough to handle it, and it kills them or drives them insane or right.

SPEAKER_04: 1:24:28

But wouldn't you think that the dragons would know that before they bonded that person? Like what they would be capable of and what they wouldn't be.

SPEAKER_02: 1:24:36

Well, maybe not. I mean, mistakes are made. True.

SPEAKER_04: 1:24:40

We have a couple questions from Kate. Number one, are they setting Dane up to appear like Blame O just to have him be the true love interest? And if not, is he meant to be with someone else?

SPEAKER_02: 1:24:56

I do not think that Dane. I think that Dane is gonna end up being a villain character.

SPEAKER_04: 1:25:02

I think that's kind of where I'm leaning to because obviously his dad is, because he knows what's up.

SPEAKER_02: 1:25:08

He threatens and Dane is so allegiant in a in a military fashion. Probably be because of his father. Yeah. It's a it's it's about more than just being a part of the writer's quadrant to Dane, it's a legacy that he's building for his family. It's you know, something he takes very serious and has a lot of pride in and wants to earn, and and I think that that just trumps everything else for him.

SPEAKER_04: 1:25:38

Yeah, and getting daddy's approval seems to be a big one because he's dad seems pleasant enough. He is the one who orchestrated the whole wrestin attack. Oh, yeah, that's right. So obviously, Dane knew because his dad orchestrated it. So Dane is team Atos, which means he was willing to let like that's like line in the sand for me. Like he was willing to let Violet go, knowing that. And I think that he in his mind cut himself off from that friendship the second he found out that she was with Zayden. He was like, You're dead to me, I'll miss you. Bye.

SPEAKER_02: 1:26:23

Yeah, it's very he's very full of himself. So full of himself. Yeah, he thinks that his what he thinks is best is is best, like there's no room for discussion.

SPEAKER_04: 1:26:39

Yeah, the thing is like, and that's an I think another thing, like what you were saying earlier, that specifically gets him about Zaiden is because Zaden is top dog, and he has the loyalty of a lot of people, regardless of the fact that he has like the rebellion relic, and that he's like technically, you know, on the other side of things, but he has loyalty and he's badass and he's good at everything. So I feel like he has just like a complex because he wants to be the number one.

SPEAKER_02: 1:27:15

Yeah, I think, and I think that has a lot to do with his father, too. You know, and who knows what Zaydan was actually what his actual goal was. Everything just kind of fell into their lap with what what happened at the end there. Um, you know, obviously they were dropped into that situation, but I'm I wonder if that was intentional, that kind of a situation, or if if he had other plans for what he was going to do within the writer squadrant, um, if he was trying to actually climb the ranks. I mean, I almost couldn't picture, even though he's the best in the Rider Squadrant, them even Even really promoting him to a position just because of who his father was. You know, they kind of keep him as a workhorse and not really give him any real power. Uh which is kind of hard to do because of Segale. You know, his signet's so powerful, like in a warlike way, it almost forces them to give him credibility. But I I really do wonder deep down, and and that's one thing that I'm gonna be looking for in their next book that I hope that she explains and goes into detail about is what Zaydan's goal was before everything happened. Like, why was he going to school there? Why wasn't he just with the rebellion? Like, what what what what was he wanting to achieve by climbing the ranks?

SPEAKER_04: 1:28:52

Well, I I don't necessarily even think that he wanted to climb the ranks. I think that initially he kind of like when he talks about taking responsibility for everyone, it was just like you all can die right now. And then he basically came up with like the let's all just go into the writer's quadrant and we promise we'll be good. So I I I think that initially it was more just saving everybody's lives in the moment. And then when he bonded Segale, it was a game changer, and like you said, they couldn't not acknowledge that. And it it put him on the board in a way that I don't think that they wanted because it I think that they probably thought, like, oh well, we can just kill them off, they won't bond dragons because of XYZ, and then he ends up bonding one of the most powerful dragons, and they can't not have that on their side.

SPEAKER_02: 1:29:50

Well, see, the thing is about Zaden, too, is that Violet almost like looks down on him for having that little connection with the everybody from the rebellion. But I think it's kind of honorable. Like, those are all like kids, some of them that are forced to go into this thing, some of them are not suited for it, and they're most likely going to die because only four point five percent of people who enter the writer's quadrant survive all four years out of like almost six hundred kids. So I mean, he's trying to guide people hit that don't have anybody else to guide them, that never had parents because they were killed because of their rebellion. Him giving advice to those people coming in and like talking to them and telling them what they need to be doing better to try and survive, I think is pretty noble.

SPEAKER_04: 1:30:58

For sure. Literally taking the marks of every single one of them. Like if any one of them defects, like it's on him, and he took responsibility for everybody. Number two, a couple other questions. What really happened to Violet's dad? I know we kind of touched on that earlier. I think that he was murdered. Obviously.

SPEAKER_02: 1:31:17

I think he was all I also think he was murdered.

SPEAKER_04: 1:31:20

Do you?

SPEAKER_02: 1:31:21

And I think that his wife murdered him.

SPEAKER_04: 1:31:25

I think so too.

SPEAKER_02: 1:31:26

I think that she's involved. I think that she is wicked.

SPEAKER_04: 1:31:30

Yeah, Mama Sorengale is not a good guy.

SPEAKER_02: 1:31:36

No, I don't think so either.

SPEAKER_04: 1:31:38

Number three, why was Andarna allowed to participate?

SPEAKER_02: 1:31:44

That's a great question.

SPEAKER_04: 1:31:45

It's a great question. I've I've thought that too.

SPEAKER_02: 1:31:48

Yes, I that did cross my mind, especially when they were in thrushing and she was in the middle of thrushing. That seems very dangerous to me. I don't I don't, and they're not supposed to leave the veil. So I'm wondering, yeah. I'm wondering what happened there, and they never talk about it.

SPEAKER_04: 1:32:08

I think that Violet asks at one point, well, there's a reason that feather tails don't bond, and that's because they're basically baby dragons. It's like, well, why did you let her do that then? And they're Terren's answer is like, well, you can't really tell her to do anything, she just kind of I wonder if they're linked.

SPEAKER_02: 1:32:29

I wonder if Andarna and Violet are linked because of magic or something.

SPEAKER_04: 1:32:37

My initial thoughts when I started the beginning, and then they started talking about Terran and the black dragon, I was like immediately like, okay, well, that dragon's gonna show up and bond with Violet. That was my first thought. But then when the little dragon parade happens and they're just like they're coming up to the dragons, and they're like, look at us, pick me, pick me. And then and Darna is there. I'm like, oh, we're going the other way on this. Like, it's the small dragon that she'll be able to get on, she'll bond the tiny dragon, and then just be like a tiny little power power doing how to train your dragon, small but money.

SPEAKER_02: 1:33:16

Exactly.

SPEAKER_04: 1:33:16

Like that's exactly what they thought. And then she came out like bonding both of them, and I was like, Okay, get it.

SPEAKER_02: 1:33:24

Yeah, as soon as he bonded with her, I was like, Okay, she's gonna bond with both.

SPEAKER_04: 1:33:30

Nice. Also, not a question, but Kate wants to know did anyone else get annoyed with Violet and her whining about Zayden? Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, all the time. And okay, so for me, whining a lot, and uh I think it was like halfway through the book. Okay, at first you have this reluctant attraction or whatever, like we get it, he's hot, but then it's it becomes the majority of her inner monologue for a while, just how hot he is, and I'm like, okay, we get it, he's hot. Can we just also you can think someone is hot and also think they're an asshole?

SPEAKER_02: 1:34:14

Hot people can be assholes too, so it it kind of annoyed me that like actually an asshole.

SPEAKER_04: 1:34:21

No, but like she doesn't know that because we never had a scene of them, or very rarely, we get it maybe towards the tail end, but we don't have that many scenes of them being vulnerable with each other or him like showing that softer side to her. He's just like always Zaydony, so it just like her level of emotional commitment to him doesn't make sense for the scenes that we actually got, other than her being like, He's so fucking hot, I'm gonna climb him like a tree.

SPEAKER_02: 1:34:49

Yeah, she's very horny, by the way.

SPEAKER_04: 1:34:52

Just just so horny for and that's like the basis of their relationship is how horny she is for Zaydan.

SPEAKER_02: 1:34:58

And then when he's like not giving her the attention, she's like Zedan Spangles on an I am kind of sad that we've gotten that now we're like in the the part of the relationship where he's trying to win her back because I don't feel like he really did anything wrong.

SPEAKER_04: 1:35:18

He didn't do anything wrong to need to win back.

SPEAKER_02: 1:35:21

I'm really annoyed because of that. I'm really annoyed with Violet because I think she's completely she's being completely irrational and overreacting so hard. Yeah, and she's so agonizing over the fact that she's overreacting at the same time. It's very annoying.

SPEAKER_04: 1:35:42

Like she in the same thought, she'll be like, I get why he couldn't tell me, but but he should have told me he should have trusted me. If he actually loved me, he would trust me. But in the same like thought pattern, like literally justifying like why he couldn't at the time. Again, they've been together for like five minutes, and she's the general's daughter. Her best friend is Dane. Everything rides on so much, the stakes are so high. Like, why would he immediately be like, Oh my god, you're so hot. Let's get it on. Also, here are all of my war secrets. I totally trust you, even though I've known you for five minutes. Like, that's not realistic.

SPEAKER_02: 1:36:29

His his hesitation and his um, I don't even consider it to be keeping a secret, I would consider it to be more keeping his business to himself, right?

SPEAKER_04: 1:36:42

And he says that he's like, I didn't lie, I just didn't volunteer things for obvious reasons. Because when you have a best friend who could touch you and then like steal your memories without your knowledge or permission, like that is a big problem. Like you have to see that. It's annoying how smart she can be on some things and just so stupid in others.

SPEAKER_02: 1:37:06

Well, I think that she's emotionally immature.

SPEAKER_04: 1:37:09

No, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02: 1:37:11

Exactly. She's emotionally and she's got that Persephone vibe, kind of like oh yes, she's not used to to being out and about around amongst the men, amongst poor people, more people, like she yeah, she's got like a homeschooler dropped in the middle of New York City vibe to her, but not in not in an endearing way though, and just in a way that's like you know, first relationships are always great, but they also teach you a lot about yourself, and she's a kind of whiny, and she's so whiny, and she's needy in a weird way, uh yeah, and in the most like teenager-y way.

SPEAKER_04: 1:37:54

Like, talk to me about every single thought and dream you've ever had, and share every little thing like like you know, like she's like going back to her room and write Zaydan and Violet and Hearts in her journal, like level of you know who she reminded me a lot of was Selena from the Throne of Glass series.

SPEAKER_02: 1:38:16

Yeah, she gave me like very I don't know, girly but assassiny with the daggers and that in the playoffs.

SPEAKER_04: 1:38:25

Right, I'm like and it the it it just is there's some times where I was like, Yes, I get it, and then she says stuff and I'm like you're so close to being awesome, and then you just say things like that, or you think it's frustrating because it's all there to just be so awesome, and then it just like misses the mark sometimes, but but when it does miss the mark, it mix it misses it by a lot. Where were we going with that?

SPEAKER_02: 1:38:57

Well, the thing that I think one of the things that was the most confusing to me is that Violet has a weak bone structure, like her joints pop out of place, her you know, her bones break easily, she has a a sickly disposition. I feel like that's something that wouldn't just go away because of training.

SPEAKER_04: 1:39:21

But no, yeah, that's that's what I was saying earlier. Like, think that there are things that she just can't control no matter.

SPEAKER_02: 1:39:27

Yeah, but like they almost make it seem like over time it gets less severe. And I'm wondering if that has to do with the dragon, like the connection between her and the dragon, or if really it's just okay, we're not gonna talk about this anymore. Because she sh- I mean, she'll she'll make references to oh, I had to wrap my ankle or something like that.

SPEAKER_04: 1:39:52

But I mean, she's doing heavy duty training, very physical stuff, and she's not getting injured and I think that to a degree of training, like building up your muscle and like getting your body stronger is gonna help physical things to a degree, not not in a like I used to get injured all the time and now I don't kind of weigh though.

SPEAKER_02: 1:40:16

Like, but why was she so brittle? And why is now she's not brittle?

SPEAKER_04: 1:40:21

Well, because whatever makes her hair white and being her mom being sick with that virus or whatever made her all sickly, which is why her mom let her be a scribe with her dad, because it was like she can never do any of the physical necessities that writers need to be able to do through like most of the book. It's like she can't keep her seat, and apparently that's like the biggest thing, and like everybody's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, you can't keep your seat, and she's like, No, he just like gives me a magic seat belt, it's fine. But it's interesting too. I'm I'm curious if we're gonna get more on like Terran too, because Terran seems to treat Violet completely differently than any other dragon treats their writer and makes allowances for them because uh all the other dragons are just letting their writers fall off them left and right. They're like, oh, they're not gonna left it.

SPEAKER_02: 1:41:20

I just want to know more about the dragons in general. I want to know more about their culture, I want to know more about their rules, I want to know more about their histories, how old they are.

SPEAKER_04: 1:41:31

Yes, here's a question that I have. It's it's clear that the dragons bond to their riders and to lose their writers is just devastating for them. So why is Terran the only one that seems to be protective of their writer? Like the other dragons are like, oh, they fell. Dang it. I'm just gonna go die of sadness now. Like none, none of the other dragons also like try to catch their writers who fall off or give them like is Tarran the only one who can magically hold a writer on there? Why isn't why aren't more dragons doing that? They're like just like killing people left and right, or like letting their writers die when it's supposedly such a devastating thing for the dragons.

SPEAKER_02: 1:42:11

Well, there is like a passage somewhere that I remember reading where I don't remember if it was Zaden or Taryn was talking about about that, and about how sometimes the dragons just let their writers die at the beginning of the bonds because they're concerned that the writer is too weak, and the longer that they're bonded, the stronger the bond becomes, and so in a way, they're they're doing all these things like the jumpture of the dragons are pushing them. I think that Taryn's relationship with Violet is singular in their connection, and that he uh he almost treats her like she's an equal to him. She treats she talks to him like he's like she's an equal to him. And I think that in general the dragons are the strength in the relationship, they're the ones where the magic is coming from, and they choose who they want. So I think Taryn was saying that sometimes they just let their writers die if they think, oh, this was a bad fit, and I don't want to be tethered to this person for the and almost and be killed by them if I don't think that they're strong enough to be my writer. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 1:43:38

I also think that Andarna's parentage is gonna come into play.

SPEAKER_02: 1:43:43

Oh, yeah, definitely. Oh, wait, is it because we don't know they it's not Karen and Segale?

SPEAKER_04: 1:43:48

It's not they're they just kind of like basically adopted her because her parents are out of the picture, like she's basically like an orphan dragon and they're just kind of like looking out for her.

SPEAKER_02: 1:43:58

I'm really excited to dive into Iron Flame because I've kind of been waiting. I I'm excited to see if some of these questions that were that we're talking about come out in the book in the next book. So yeah, kind of excited to dive into that. I think I'm gonna dive into that tomorrow.

SPEAKER_04: 1:44:16

Yeah, I this week I really wanted to because I had the time, but I was like sick all last week. I couldn't read because like my head was just like pounding and I couldn't.

SPEAKER_02: 1:44:26

I'm gonna put in the right mindset. I've been this week, I've been listening to the Bridgerton series. The audio.

SPEAKER_04: 1:44:34

Oh yeah, yeah, you tell me that I need to I need to listen to that.

SPEAKER_02: 1:44:37

I today Oh, they're so good. You know, you never know what to expect uh when you pick up a romance novel, but I would say that this is like the Bridgerton series is like top-tier Regency romance, and the show is so good. They change a lot in the show to give it more drama. Um, but in a way, that's kind of okay because the show is great, it's a different story in a way. It tells the story in a different way to where it's not like you don't know everything that's gonna happen because they cut a lot or changed a lot, and I've really been enjoying them. They're they're really fantastic. I'm on I just finished the fourth one today. So uh the next one is to Sir Philip with Love, and that is Eloisa's story. Okay. But I um so good, so good. I really recommend, and the audiobooks are great.

SPEAKER_04: 1:45:36

I will have to check those out because I feel like I will like the books better because I the show is something that I really wanted to love because it has everything that I love. Like I love Regency, I love anything Britishy, I love romance, I love the the all the tropes, and just I I just didn't love the show the way that everybody loves the show. Oh, I like it. Like I liked it okay, but there was a lot that I didn't like that was like cringy to me, and I like really wanted to like it so much more than I actually did.

SPEAKER_02: 1:46:10

Well, it's it's massively different. I I mean like the Queen Charlotte is a huge.

SPEAKER_04: 1:46:16

I actually like that the best.

SPEAKER_02: 1:46:17

So yeah, and she had like a spin-off with the Queen Charlotte series, and Queen Charlotte isn't even in the she has not been a character in any of the first four books. That's crazy. She is a character that was written in for the show. Um, and so everything happens a lot differently. In the books, it's a lot more realistic to Regency era romance where the stakes are higher. Like I feel like in the the show, like nobody was running around acting promiscuous the way that they do, because it literally would ruin everyone's life around you in a very serious way. It's not like oops, we were caught. I guess we gotta get married. No, it wasn't like that, it was a big deal, right? Uh yes, and so the books are a little more, the stakes are a little higher in the books. You know, it's just they're fantastic.

SPEAKER_04: 1:47:10

I listened to a chunk of famine today. Oh my gosh. I started I started that one. I did. Oh my gosh. But that is what I'm listening to right now. Have you have you listened to or read more of Fury Born? Because like you you tease me because you start books and then you just like set them down, and like I got all excited, and I and now you're not like reading it. And I'm I'm three books into the horseman, like I'm on the third one.

SPEAKER_02: 1:47:37

Oh my gosh, I have read so many more books for you than you have read for me.

SPEAKER_04: 1:47:43

That's not true.

SPEAKER_02: 1:47:44

Yes, and you're not really actually physically with your eyeballs reading those, you're listening to the audiobooks. You're physically reading that, not listening, fury born, yes. Yes, yes. So I actually I've had a little bit of a pause this week on my eyeball rating. It's been like all audiobooks this week.

SPEAKER_04: 1:48:03

No, that's valid. I thought you were listening.

SPEAKER_02: 1:48:06

No, no, no, no, no, I'm reading it. So I I did start it and I do like it, but I really haven't the audiobooks are really good.

SPEAKER_04: 1:48:15

I I yeah, I I listened to them. I didn't physically read those. I listened to them. I also don't understand how there's not more of a fandom for the the Fury Born trilogy because it is sublime. Like the writing is just so good, and then the way that it wraps like the trilogy is just so from start to finish, like so well thought out. The pacing, the timeline switches, the it it's just I can count on one hand how many times a book has like literally made me like jaw drop. Did not see this coming. Oh my god, Aquatar was one. I think it was more mist and fury for me. Oh mist and fury, like, but collectively. That book made me cry. Oh, me too. Too. I cried, I cried multiple times in miss in Fury Born. Kristen Hanna makes me cry. Oh, I cannot read a book of hers without Ugly Crying at least once.

SPEAKER_02: 1:49:22

The nightingale literally broke my heart. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_04: 1:49:29

I I if I don't ugly cry at least once, I'm not reading a Kristen Hanna book. Have you read Winter Garden? No, you're always recommending that one. That one is probably one of my favorite of hers. When I say, like, I was listening to the audiobook, and I remember I was on my way to a friend's house for dinner, and I was listening to it on my way over, which was a huge mistake. And it got to a certain and I was like bawling in the car. Like I was like stopped at a red light, and I'm just like ugly crying, and like people were rolling down their windows, they're like, Are you okay? Like do you need help? And I was like, no, it's okay.

SPEAKER_00: 1:50:05

I'm just listening to my book.

SPEAKER_02: 1:50:11

Oh my gosh, that's that's like so cringy. I feel bad for you.

SPEAKER_04: 1:50:16

It was bad. Like I was I was I was unwell. I was unwell. I didn't I was it was bad. And I'm and you know me, like I'm not even a huge crier, but I was like straight up bawling because I'm like I could not with that with that book.

SPEAKER_02: 1:50:35

You're not a huge crier, you're the saddest crier I know. You you make your tears make me cry. Just the thought of your tears. You guys want to know what she told me? You want to know what she told me? She told me that she cries in the shower. Do you know how sad that is that you cry in the shower? That no one could ever see your tears. They just blend in with the with the water dripping down your face. That is the most depressing thought I've ever heard.

SPEAKER_04: 1:51:15

I'm getting choked up talking about I used to never let myself cry. So I think as the older I've gotten, I've just like kind of leaned into it and let myself do it, which is good. But now I cry at a lot of things, and I'm like, who am I? Alright, well, that's that's just enough of all that. What are we what are we reading next?

SPEAKER_02: 1:51:39

Uh next, we're gonna continue on in this universe with Iron Flame.

SPEAKER_04: 1:51:44

Yay! Excited to dive into that. And just just so everybody has, we are gonna switch up the genres moving forward, but for obvious reasons we're doing the sequel. So yeah, but we're but we are gonna switch it up. We're not gonna exclusively do yeah, we're not gonna exclusively do one genre. We're gonna switch it up.

SPEAKER_02: 1:52:03

Um but I feel like we're all on board. We like to read everything, guys. I mean, we love what's happening right now in the romanticy genre, which is becoming its own genre, of course. Of course, we're obsessed. We're obsessed with fantasy right now, just like all the other book girls, but we like to read other stuff. We like to read all different genres.

SPEAKER_04: 1:52:31

Um, if you guys have any questions, comments, uh, we want to hear from you about that book too. You can find us on all of our socials Instagram, Facebook, YouTube.

SPEAKER_02: 1:52:44

If you go to our website uh at www.bookmatespodcast.com, there is a link there to our link tree, and you can get to all of our socials from there. Uh, and that's also a direct link to our podcast.

SPEAKER_04: 1:52:58

And we're on most podcast platforms, so and if you want to comment or send us your questions about the book for us to uh discuss on the podcast, you can email us at bookmatespcast at gmail.com. Um, yeah, we want to hear from you guys. So uh all right. Thanks, bookmates. Thanks for being here. Thanks for reading with us. And all that jazz. All right, that's it. That's all that's all she wrote. Thanks, bookmates. Thank you, bookmates. All right, go to sleep. I love you.

SPEAKER_05: 1:53:36

Love you, love you.

SPEAKER_04: 1:53:39

I love you too, bye. Bye.