E4 - Rodrigo: From Blueprints to Balkans - A Journey of Personal Growth

Can an architect's impulsive decision to quit his job and travel across Eastern Europe lead to unforeseen personal growth and transformation? Join us as I introduce Rodrigo, a 35-year-old Brazilian architect who swapped his drafting tools for a backpack and embarked on an exhilarating two-month Eurotrip. Hear firsthand about Rodrigo's meticulously spontaneous journey from Milan to Wroclaw, Poland, and the remarkable destinations he encountered, including Italy, Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina and many others. Reflect with Rodrigo as he revisits places after a decade, sharing his insights on how both he and these locales have evolved over time.

This episode takes you down memory lane, contrasting our early travel experiences with the more mature, yet equally adventurous, journeys we undertake today. Through stories of couchsurfing and hitchhiking, we explore the cultural intricacies and serendipities that make travel a transformative experience. Discover how our motivations and methods have shifted, and why the thrill of the unknown still draws us to new horizons, even as our perspectives grow more nuanced.

Connect with Rodrigo:

• Rodrigo's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/rodrigo.mascaro
• Couchsurfing: https://www.couchsurfing.com/people/rodrigomascaro

Connect with me:

• Igar Garai Instagram: https://instagram.com/igargarai
• or be my CS guest: https://www.couchsurfing.com/people/igar-garai

Transcript

Igar: 0:00

Hello, dear travelers from around the globe. Today I would like to introduce you my couchsurfing and podcast guest, the 35 years old Brazilian architect who quit his job and exploring the Eastern Europe, and now he's here in Poland, in Wroclaw. So, rodrigo, amigo, good to have you here and how was your first day in Poland?

Rodrigo: 0:26

Hi, hello everyone. Well, my first day in Poland was pretty cool. I've been here for like 20, it's not 25 hours, 20 hours, maybe already yeah, 24 hours. So a whole day. And yes, I imagine it's a beautiful country, friendly people. So far, so good. I mean, I had a lot of great experiences today, visited a lot of beautiful places, got to know a little bit more about the history.

Igar: 1:03

So so far, so perfect good, good, cool, really cool to have you here, cool, you enjoy and uh, well, um, can you please open like your story? You know, like like this quitting job and like how you start this journey exactly and the way it's going, you know, yeah so, uh, I come to europe every year, pretty much.

Rodrigo: 1:31

I'm an architect and I come every year to the milan design week, which is in april normally. Uh, I come here to, you know, meet people, meet other Brazilian architects and architects around the world. Everybody's in Milan this April, actually due to the Design Week, which is really important, huge fair. So, yeah, so I had some issues in my last work. I decided all of a sudden to quit my job a week before coming to Europe. I bought my flights to come here and fly back to Brazil last year, but since I've quit my job before coming here, it sounds a little bit of impulsive, but it was not. I can tell you more about this after.

Rodrigo: 2:31

But I quit my job, so I had time. So I decided to get a two-month trip within Europe. So the idea was starting in Milan during the Design Week, of course, and ending this trip two months. Ending this two months trip in Copenhagen in June during the Design Week, there too, which was always a dream for me to participate. So this year I'm going to realize my dream. Yeah, and that's it. So, in between these two cities, in between these two months, I get to travel a little bit around Europe. So I've been to a lot of countries, some new countries, some countries that I have already been to. So it's been nice Like I've met a lot of interesting people. I'm doing pretty much couchsurfing all the places, so it's been such a great experience for me in a special moment of my life.

Igar: 3:37

So it's been great, yeah, right, like after this greeting and stuff yeah yeah, so in the way, like how it's going, like you start Milan, then what then?

Rodrigo: 3:46

I started Milan and I went to Venice because there's a biennale in Venice as well and then I went to Slovenia, croatia and then Bosnia, and then back to Croatia, and then Austria, liechtenstein, switzerland, france, germany and I'm here in Poland and I have probably more four or five countries I had where you're gonna go after. Lithuania, latvia, est Finland and then Denmark. Of course, because of the design week and I just bought my flight back to Brazil today and so the flight goes from Amsterdam, so I'll go to Amsterdam after Denmark.

Igar: 4:44

That's a bit sweet Nice, really nice, a lot, really a lot for Europe. I think, like it's I don't know, like I haven't count when you right now was talking, maybe I should, but like more than 10, for sure, 10, 15 countries you will go. Yes, yes, yes. And like I also read in Kavishor, you already travel like 24, right In total, something like this yeah, 24 countries.

Rodrigo: 5:07

Yeah, this is my second two-month trip. I've done the first one 10 years ago and that's also interesting because I'm older than 10 years after. So I get to see how much I changed and I got to see how much I changed. And yet I got to see how much places changed. I've been to a lot of countries for the first time now, but a lot of countries I've been to the second time now. I used to live in berlin, for example, in 2013 I studied. I lived there one year to study and this year I was there again after 10 years. So a lot changed in the city and it's also a lot hasn't changed at all. So it's interesting to see this well, I think the changes in me. So right, city change.

Igar: 6:04

Man, you didn't come to Wroclaw, you know from Berlin you were so close. Yeah, yeah, yeah, ten years ago.

Rodrigo: 6:13

I should have come earlier. Yeah, I thought about it. Poland, actually it's funny because Poland is a country that I went to the border with a friend of mine by bike from Berlin to the border, but we didn't cross the border. Why? Why? So, because it wasn't the plane. So 10 years ago I just saw Poland, but I didn't step in Poland. So yeah.

Rodrigo: 6:41

Two countries I just saw I didn't well from the airplane a lot of countries, but, like I, when I was in Copenhagen, you get to see Sweden as well, and when I was in Germany, I got to see but two countries. I never stepped right and how?

Igar: 7:01

how do you like choose, like your travel destinations? Because, like what you mentioned also was interesting with this like balkan countries, like you know, like especially it's also I know brazilians, like people, mostly go like france, a lot of to france, right, like a lot of the most popular countries, like portugal spain or something. But like for you, like like second day we speak, and you mentioned this kind of I would say somehow, like even liechtenstein, like you know, it's super nobody goes there right like I.

Rodrigo: 7:28

I tried to go there, but I loved. I love the country.

Igar: 7:31

Yeah, small country of course, but beautiful, really beautiful and then like, yeah, balkans, and now you're here, like in the eastern europe also not so. Like, yeah, maybe nowadays more people. But I mean you know what I mean. Right, like it's not, like I don't go to England or something, go to US, you know it's not like the main destinations, most famous destinations, even for Brazilians. Yeah right.

Rodrigo: 7:53

Yeah, I agree, I don't know why there's no reason. And well, first of all, I don't have a destination because I like literally quit my job a week before coming here, so I didn't prepare anything, anything, and a lot of things happened during my trip that changed my planned track.

Rodrigo: 8:13

So this is something really interesting for me now because I get to deal with the unplanned. And it's hard for me because I'm the type of person that of course I go with my heart mostly, but I kind of know when I'm traveling where I'm going the day after today. So in this trip everything can change all the time. So when I said I have four or five countries I had, maybe everything can be changed. Maybe I go back to berlin I don't know, I don't know, it all depends.

Rodrigo: 8:49

It happened already in croatia. But so, yeah, this is something interesting I have to deal with. But you asked me why I prefer, like west, uh, eastern countries. Right, I don't know. There's no reason. There's no reason. It's interesting because I've never been to paris, one of the most famous brazilian destinations, never been there. I think it's because I somehow know what I'm gonna see there. There's no like. I know it's the beautiful city with the beautiful tower, the beautiful people, fashion, furniture, design, a lot of things going on. Maybe I know it already Catholic country, I know they speak French, so I know what I'm gonna find there, of course, of course if I go there.

Rodrigo: 9:46

probably I'll leave experiment, different things and stuff I'm going to see, absolutely, of course, of course.

Rodrigo: 9:52

But if it comes to the Eastern countries, eastern European countries, it's interesting how things changed. My first two-month trip was from Copenhagen to Istanbul, so I crossed like maybe five, six different languages, three different religions, a lot of different cultures and people. It's more unexpected and this is what I like to discover something new for me. I didn't know what was going on in bulgaria until I reached bulgarian, or serbia, or a lot of different countries. So, yeah, that's why I come to the eastern countries most likely makes Makes sense.

Igar: 10:42

Makes sense Like this is also, you know, not expectation, and you can always surprise yourself right Like with something and again discover. Yeah. Yeah, like kind of, and you will be, I might be not prepared and surprise for good, maybe sometimes surprise not for that good, you know, like and yeah, you open this topic topic like about this journey, like it's quite a big journey, like you cross again Copenhagen, istanbul, right, the first three, yeah, yeah, so it's like, it's like it's a lot, it's like it's even more than Portugal, poland, let's say.

Igar: 11:19

Like, like this kind of if I'm just thinking about journey, about destination, I don't even know how far is I think a lot like really because a lot of like countries, like in big countries and like in mountains yeah, I crossed bulgaria, serbia, austria, czech republic, slovakia, across a lot of big countries in europe.

Rodrigo: 11:44

Yeah, but I'm used to it because I'm from Brazil, so Brazil is a country the size of Europe, so for me, 400 kilometers is like nothing. Yeah, I'm completely used.

Igar: 11:55

I do that like every weekend so, and how was it in general for you, like, what did you do like 10 years ago? And also you mentioned that, like you like can see yourself change as a person, place has changed, of course. So in what I way I'm trying to go is like, firstly, I want to know your trip, like how was that? What did you do back then, like on your, let's say, youth, yeah, like maybe university times, or like like somewhere there, yeah, around that age, and like and like how did you travel the way you know, like what did you do, I don't know, like buses, hitchhiking or something, and like compare maybe for now how you do it now and also with your mindset, can you, can like cut it for small?

Rodrigo: 12:44

you look, you know, and then we can just and this is just one global question I have, but yeah, so, uh, when I lived in berlin in 2013, I was a student, 25 years old, so everything was cool like a teenager student and I, as pretty much all of the students, I didn't have much money to travel, so I didn't travel a lot. The main goal for me coming to Germany was to learn German, so every time I had some money, some extra money, I traveled to some place, but in Germany. So I didn't leave the country. For one year After finishing my studies, I decided to do this European trip because at the time, I didn't get to know any European countries, so I decided to. Also, I didn't know why I got this track from Copenhagen to Istanbul. The only thing I knew from before is that I had a flight back from Istanbul to Berlin after two months, but I didn't know the track to reach Istanbul and I was teenager like easygoing couchsurfing, so I also started to couchsurfing.

Igar: 14:16

Yeah, it was my first experience at couchsurfing and it was brilliant, brilliant.

Rodrigo: 14:21

That's why I'm repeating it now and, yeah, I didn't know the track, but it was fun. It was really fun. I met a lot of different people, people with whom I can, like I, speak even nowadays, like 10 years later. They didn't go to Brazil but and I didn't come back to their countries, but we keep in touch even nowadays.

Igar: 14:53

So it was unbelievably amazing and and like how was why Istanbul?

Rodrigo: 14:55

I don't know, maybe because in in Berlin there are a lot of people from Istanbul. So maybe I was interested, that's one reason, but really I don't know. I just bought a cheap flight. It was Istanbul Berlin, so okay. So in two months I have to be in Istanbul. Let's see what's going on in the middle of the track. That was good, and this year, 10 years later, I got the opportunity to do the same. So that's what I'm doing. Is that all your cash questioned?

Igar: 15:29

well, kind of like yeah, yeah, yeah, no more, no worries for this and like so 10 years ago again, as mentioned, like poor, poor, poor student. Can I say poor student?

Igar: 15:39

yeah, I think just student is already like kind of poor, like who is re-student, is super differently. You know people like just student, you know so students who want to discover right, like so how was what did you do? Like, how was that for you like like, like how you did this, budgeting again like two months of travel, I mean like in first times, remembering me, oof, like it was. You know like taking buses already like a lot, you know like something. So I, in my case, I was like hitchhiking, trying these ways and even couchsurfing. Uh, couchsurfing. Um host, teach me in netherlands. He say, man, why you need bus, like go hitchhiking. I'm like, really, can I do it? And he said, yeah, you just go there and you put the sign and you go. And since then, like it started my hitchhiking journey. But like, yeah, I don't know how was for you like what?

Rodrigo: 16:31

did you do? I didn't hitchhike. I well I did, but like uh, from I don't remember actually, but it was like a 50 kilometers hitchhiking.

Rodrigo: 16:43

It was nothing really easy. But I think I really like people who say that they hitchhiked already or like two months trip hitchhiking, but this is something that I didn't do and I don't think I'll be able to. No, it's fine, yeah, yeah, yeah, because it's like a Cultural difference. In Brazil, nobody hitchhikes. If you say something like that, most likely people say that you're crazy or stuff. We're cool, but it's a different country. It's not like cultural there.

Rodrigo: 17:26

It's interesting how a lot of europeans hitchhike a lot. Yeah, yeah, a lot of couch couch surfers that host me. They used to hitchhike somehow, or they have. They have had this experience, but I didn't, unfortunately. Maybe someday, I don't know, but yeah, I didn't hitchhike. So I took buses and trains and yeah, there was, but it wasn't so expensive because different from now. That time 10 years ago, I just gave up my rent, so I I got, I got everything I had in my backpack and I just went, so I didn't have to pay. Like now I'm paying my rent, my apartment, so it's been a little bit more expensive. So this is one of the changes. Like now I'm more mature, I have my, I'm based in Brazil, I have a base, so I have to maintain the space going on and I'm here like traveling. This is one of the differences.

Igar: 18:29

Super nice, interesting. And now, now you also like continue the same way, like with buses, trains, but I know that like you again, you don't really plan. Like. And also, as you write me and like you just like, go how it's going, yeah, like, yeah, yeah, for example. And like you just like, go how it's going, yeah, like, yeah, yeah.

Rodrigo: 18:45

Yeah, For example, the first plan was going from Ljubljana which is.

Rodrigo: 18:54

Everybody should go there. It's a beautiful city, beautiful country, going from Ljubljana to Zagreb and Zagreb was supposed to be the only city in Croatia and then from Zagreb up to Austria and stuff. But I met a traveler as well and he, we met on the streets and he invited me to rent a car with him and go to the national parks in Croatia and to the coast and do this. He said yeah, and we did it, like I was planned to stay like three days in Zagreb and then go back to Austria, but then I had to. I didn't spend like three days in Zagreb, just one night actually, and then the next morning we rented a car and went to the national parks and to the seaside. And it was crazy and unbelievably cool how it works, because who imagined that I would ever meet a guy who's also traveling all by himself? And then we were trying to, you know have some days together in a different style because we rented a car.

Rodrigo: 20:15

So we get to go to places probably without a car, totally, totally we couldn't get to do, so it was fun. So in Split, a city called split yeah, split, your split so I went to bosnia and he kept traveling by himself to southwards wow, man, well, this is super cool.

Igar: 20:38

This is like, yeah, like like travel brings you, yeah, like some like some random meetings and can give you something for your life or change, or like I don't know, like some travel magic, like how you call it.

Rodrigo: 20:52

And it's for me, it's. I have to deal with the unplanned, with what's not planned, and this is what life is about. And this is what life is about, even though you have a plan or you try to have a plan, comes life and traps you. You know you don't. You you're not in control of anything. You think you're in control, but this, this feeling of having control, is like bullshit. So yeah, and life is also all about making choice. I could have chosen not to go with this guy so I wouldn't have lived all these experiences, but I had more time.

Rodrigo: 21:36

I had more time to Luxembourg, for example, which was the first plan, like not going to the east side of Croatia but getting to Luxembourg first. So, yeah, did I that I didn't do? But it was fine like super cool. I'm not in control of anything having a plan or not having a plan. Life guides me. Everything can change anytime.

Igar: 22:05

Anytime, it's nice words by the way, yeah and like um, I know we talked yesterday a little bit about bosnia. Do you wanna touch it here?

Rodrigo: 22:19

because it's kind of like touchy story, like it's interesting because we both have Bosnian experience and we have to say BNH, bosnia, herzegovina, it's not only Bosnia. But yeah, I like the country, I love the country. Actually, people are friendly.

Igar: 22:48

How do you like food like they're kind of famous from Balkans with food, I'm vegetarian.

Rodrigo: 22:52

I forgot.

Igar: 22:56

I have two things about food.

Rodrigo: 22:58

I'm vegetarian, first of all and second of all, I'm not like a food person, but you don't eat a lot of.

Igar: 23:06

I'm not like a food person, but you told me you eat a lot of outside, so it's kind of food person I eat outside, but it's just for like all right, it's not like for tasting food and having this experience.

Rodrigo: 23:18

Another type of guy who goes to I don't know china and it's the best restaurant, and now I have to go back to china to eat the same restaurant like bread with cheese for me is fine everywhere, like food for me.

Rodrigo: 23:34

I also thought about it a lot, but it is what it is Like. I'm not a stomach and tongue are not my favorite parts of my body, uh, but the food was nice, people were nice, but I didn't feel really well in the country for a lot of different reasons. Makes me feel, makes me have contact, makes me have contact with some part of me that I kind of maybe don't like or I don't know. So, yeah, it wasn't the best way, best place for me to be. Like. I felt something weird. I spent like four days in total in Bosnia, I guess, yeah, four or five days, and then I went back. The plan was like staying there seven days, a whole week, I guess, if I'm not not wrong, but I got it a little shorter and like what was like there, like what you kind of.

Igar: 24:47

But personally, if you don't want, I have to.

Rodrigo: 24:50

I think it's attached to the recent history of bosnia Right Makes me really emotional, Really like I really got affected to what happened 30 years ago there.

Igar: 25:06

And because you can really see it everywhere, like like in Bosnia, and like who guys of you haven't been there? Like it's like same for me, like I've been when last September 2023, the same, like, like, like. It's like same for me, like I've been when last september 2023. The same, like, like, like it's tense, like it's like a lot of like, yeah, but uh, like building still a lot of shoots, like you can see the bullets, like in these buildings and like cementries everywhere, and like it's like it's really intense. It's really intense from this perspective, when you feel it and you begin, when you come to country, you try to understand history and then you see this this is. I didn't actually even expect it. I didn't maybe did my research well, I didn't do any research, but you have to Like this is how I prefer also go.

Igar: 25:56

But then I like I came to country and then I just see it almost everywhere and it was like oof, you know like, because I was also like I was expecting something like this, let's say, in Kosovo for some reason.

Rodrigo: 26:09

But you had also in Bosnia, like a nature, experiencing nature, Nature is amazing yeah nature is amazing.

Igar: 26:18

Then you go like, go like yeah, but in cities I mean, and uh so yeah, but for example in kosovo.

Rodrigo: 26:22

I just had these cities experiencing yeah, yeah in bosnia me too.

Igar: 26:26

No, I didn't go for nature, I would like to.

Igar: 26:28

I need car, you know, for example, for this experience would be amazing to go by car, because everywhere, when I was passing by by bus, I was like I want to come back this car and stop here, I also was time limited in uh in this uh balkan trip and I was using just like a bus and I know, okay, I tried, actually I tried to hitchhike in uh from that balkan trip in maced, so but because I had three hours before my bus, so I say to on the bus station, okay, I will come back if tickets will be here Now I will go to try my luck and I nothing happened really.

Rodrigo: 27:07

So I came back to Cabas, you know, but it's uh, just like we said that, like, hitchhiking is a cultural thing. So in Brazil everybody would say you're crazy if you hitchhike, and here in Europe it's something more like people do normally. The feeling that I had in Bosnia-Herzegovina was like also, a little bit of everything everybody says is regarding their back, their background, like their life, their history. So everybody says everything through some perspective and this is something that is really necessary to be understood. So my experience in Bosnia was good. The experience was amazing. I couldn't stay there as much as I wanted, even though I had met a lot of nice and interesting people from Bosnia and also a lot of tourists. But it's my perspective. I think everybody should have a Bosnian, zergovian experience.

Rodrigo: 28:27

I totally, totally, really recommend, I really recommend it To understand more about the world, about how things work, about religion, more about the word, about how things work, about religion, about food if you're into food about recent history of the word, about somehow hypocrisy, of the political hypocrisy, and this is something that everybody discuss a lot, even nowadays in bosnia.

Rodrigo: 28:53

Like everybody that I met talks about hypocrisy Interesting, but for me as a Brazilian, like it was an amazing experience. I learned a lot. I even wrote a lot of things down in my notebook and Bosnia was the country where I wrote the most like many pages of writing. But I, yeah, maybe I'll go back there and then in a few years maybe, who knows? And maybe I'll see. I have another experience.

Igar: 29:33

And like, when you travel like in, like by countries, do you go to? Because Bosnia, let's say, also don't offend, I'm not trying to, but I mean one country, it's quite a museum of war. It kind of sounds sad. I don't want to say this, but somehow it is right, because again, it's a matrix and stuff. I know, for example, in Poland they have a concentration camp, want to say this, but somehow it is right because again, it's a matrix and stuff. And I know, for example, in poland, and like they, we, they have concentration camp and you go kind of, but it's separate place where you go right, so like and what I but I can.

Rodrigo: 30:08

For example, this is one thing that I won't do in poland.

Igar: 30:10

That's what I want to try like, do you? Usually go to such a kind of no, I can't.

Rodrigo: 30:17

Unfortunately, maybe I'm too weak. I don't know what's the reason, but I won't. I mean, I think I already get the history. I don't have to be in that place. You know, For me I'm almost crying now. Like I can't, I can't. I'm sorry, but I can't, I can't. It'm sorry, but I can't I can't, it's totally fine.

Igar: 30:39

yeah, same for me. Like usually I don't go for such places. Also, like I really understand what is the heaviness of those places and like importance of them and like then that I personally wouldn't like anything like this happened ever with anywhere, like no matter what, and I clearly understand it, so I don't need to also visit it because, yeah, and don't remember myself like about also some history. Yeah, but I know that like you go for like museums and stuff, right, you also like so, but is it any like specific direction? You go on like more like archaeological, historical or just like vibing archaeological? Definitely not. No, I know some like it's some places with like yeah, I think this time I'm more like into urban things.

Rodrigo: 31:35

So like art and design and people. Another difference that I've seen in between these two two months trip that I took is, uh, 10 years ago I was really interested in cities in like see how things work public transportation, how people behavior and now I'm more interested in people than in cities. So it's it's something that changed, like I'm not feeling nowadays completely well. Walking all by myself the whole day Ten years ago was perfectly fine. Nowadays I have to stop in a coffee shop and have a quick conversation with the waitress and, yeah, I'm more interested in people now.

Rodrigo: 32:33

Of course, in cities, constructions, buildings, sightseeing. Of course in cities, constructions, buildings, sightings. Of course. But ten years ago, more than, it is now now it's more like when? Who am I gonna meet in a few minutes? Like who? Am. I gonna ask for some information. Who am? I gonna have a little talk. It's actually interesting, right.

Igar: 33:00

Yeah, because, like I think, same for me changed. Maybe for now it's changed more, like for nature, but like I had also some switches. Okay, like cities and like sightseeing and like, okay, architecture, or like I don't know, churches here, there, buildings, yeah, but like then move maybe also to people and like I, I want, I, I remember I used to like to like just chill, observe, you know, like, how people just walk or behave or like dressing. You know, in certain places For example, I have this story in Paris there is one park, I don't really know the name like somewhere in like city center, around like the like this touristic places I was spending with friends just half of the day, you know, chilling, vibing and just observing how the people behave, how they walk, how they act, what they play, like because it's park, what they do.

Igar: 34:02

So much fascinating, so much interesting, yeah, and nowadays, for some reason, like like some years, just change a lot of nature and I just wanna go, especially countries. Even yesterday, remember we discussed it's like when we discussed turkey and cyprus, yeah, and I was saying, yeah, cyprus didn't really impress me because, like after antalya, where I can see like so much nature and like go there and waterfalls and mountains, cyprus kind of. I felt like more like empty, less greener, and I'm like, oh you know, even though like there is something to see. But again, just to this mindset comparison.

Rodrigo: 34:38

But I really, really, really want to go to Cyprus.

Igar: 34:41

For some reason, the islands, Go go. Maybe you will have another experience. It's all about perspectives and moments and as I said maybe I didn't understand something there, Because my conclusion of the Cyprus trip is like I didn't understand.

Rodrigo: 34:58

Cyprus. When I lived in Berlin ten years ago, I had a friend we don't have contact anymore, but he was from Cyprus and also oh my god, cyprus. Like somebody from Cyprus. Yeah, like here in Berlin like the small island in the middle of the Mediterranean. It's interesting Like Split II, Turkish part, Greek part Must be really interesting.

Igar: 35:26

Yeah, also it's unique stuff, like because you can see completely different the same.

Rodrigo: 35:31

I really want to go there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but I'm this trip. I'm more like I, I, I don't, I don't know why. Maybe it's because I'm more mature now, but I feel like you can understand more about some cultures. Like, if you have like one hour conversation with a local, sitting down somewhere in a park or something, then just walking the streets as crazy, looking for something that you don't know exactly what?

Igar: 36:05

Because mostly you don't even know what you're looking at. It's historically important. But what is it? You need to dig, but rarely people really dig into what they see.

Rodrigo: 36:16

If you sit down and just get to see one street of the city. But if you you're with the right person having some conversation, then you probably know more about the city than somebody that just walked all the streets and yeah this.

Igar: 36:36

why is smart yeah?

Rodrigo: 36:37

and I'm trying to now, nowadays, I'm trying to discover the culture by art, by contemporary art. So, okay, that's why I look today for a lot of contemporary art galleries to to see what's going on nowadays.

Igar: 36:56

It's actually interesting, so can you open it?

Rodrigo: 37:02

No, because they're all closed.

Igar: 37:04

Yeah, but you've been in one no. Yeah, it was pretty good, Really really cool, no, but in general, this idea of exploring culture through contemporary because also modern art, how you look on it, it's really interesting. It's it's make for me logic sense, but I never thought about this. I used to visit such places but how you said, right now it's really make me.

Rodrigo: 37:32

But this is something new for me as well like, of course, you have to go to the church, you have to go to the museum, you have to go to the old places and you have to go how these uh react with the age like we do, we humans do. But contemporary art says a lot about the culture, about what's going on, about somebody's issues, you know. So it's a good way to very interesting.

Igar: 38:04

Do you think contemporary art, like if you've been already in several so several, I mean different countries what is your perspective? Do you think it's um somehow same all around or it's really different? Depend on both, both.

Rodrigo: 38:24

You can find some similarities, but you see the difference in between the countries. Yeah, both and and it's actually it's not the art itself, it's more about you. How do you, how is your interpretation of it all? Like you can look at the same.

Rodrigo: 38:48

Yeah, it's all about perspective, as you said before, like if you go together to a, an art gallery, then probably you see something and I you'll see something it's more about us than about the piece we're looking at, you know, and so that's why I I see a lot of similarities in between art galleries in all over the countries, because it's about me actually, how I look at them, and of course, they're totally different because, you know, the material work in croatia is not the same material work here so interesting and how you also uh, travel like mostly solo or you also.

Igar: 39:36

Well, once it's like you met a stranger.

Rodrigo: 39:43

I had like 10 days together which was good, but mostly I'm traveling alone, couch surfing, so that means I'm never alone, right, and, as I said, I'm more like into people nowadays, so probably I'll look for somebody to talk to. So definitely not alone at all, but, like traveling, I'm alone you talked to somebody today, a lot of people.

Igar: 40:14

How was it?

Rodrigo: 40:16

small talks, give me a coffee. How do you somebody today like a lot of people? Yeah, how was it like because, yeah, small talks, yeah, like, give me a coffee. How do you pronounce it? Thank you in, oh, which I don't remember, never remember but you pronounce good, let me say yeah, but I don't know the word. What's it like?

Igar: 40:32

yeah, you're really, I'm telling you you pronounce. Pronounce it really correct and straight, because a lot of people it's difficult, like some Polish sounds this G, it's already. But it's. Portuguese.

Rodrigo: 40:43

Yeah, but like it's also.

Igar: 40:44

English, I guess Gentlemen, yeah, but they will pronounce it like, like I don't know, maybe this accent, I don't know, something like this. And about Kajusdurfing. So you joined like 10 around 10 years ago plus minus. How did you find this, like, like where it came from, this idea? I have no idea, I don't know. You don't remember? No, no, no, no. Who told you this about the secret application for travelers.

Rodrigo: 41:16

I don't really remember no idea and I don't even remember my what my first experience was in hamburg, germany germany it was with a couple, really nice.

Rodrigo: 41:34

I had the second experience in Copenhagen. Crazy, during the moment wasn't good, but afterwards I understood why that came to my life. Okay, but in Copenhagen's, unbelievable was unbelievable. Crazy because again, perspectives I'm Brazilian, not the safest country in the world. So I met this guy online in the app and we had a meeting point in some coffee shop or something and I went there a few years few earlier but he was totally late because he had some issues in the work. So he was like two hours late and he was like, oh my god, I'm so sorry I'm late, sorry, sorry, sorry. I mean it's okay, I'm fine, don't worry, it's snowing outside, so it's good to be here. For me, snow is like yeah I have snow, yeah so I was having fun.

Rodrigo: 42:42

That was perfectly okay. But he was like tense, like sorry, sorry and and he told me that he had some issues in the work and he had a like a party colleagues party happy hour that he had to go. Okay, like he had to go because it was a tough day, so he had to have this nice moment with his colleagues. So he took a napkin. He draw the copenhagen map, so this is the point where we are and this is my place, so you have to take this bus and this tram, I don't remember. So he drawed it to me and he gave me his keys and I was like hello, we never met like we met 10 minutes ago. How are you going to give me your keys? And I felt it's so unbelievably. We never met like we met 10 minutes ago. How are you gonna give me your keys? Yeah, and that I felt it's so unbelievably, unbelievably beautiful because he trusted me, absolutely. So, yeah, and but it is something that I wasn't used to.

Rodrigo: 43:48

You know, like I've never do that as a brazilian, different, and that was the first different and interesting experience I had in couchsurfing. Like, yeah, like can be good, can be easy, can be safe, can be, you know, positive. You just have to trust somebody and this person has to be trustful. So so this is when the trip started, in Copenhagen, and after that until until Istanbul, like 20 cities or more all beautiful experiences nowadays also all this trip.

Igar: 44:34

You're also on couchsurfing, right also couchsurfing? Yeah, how was like in Luxembourg, in those kind of countries, nowadays also all this trip. You also go surfing right Also go surfing. Yeah, how was it like in Luxembourg, in those kind of countries Liechtenstein.

Rodrigo: 44:40

I haven't been to Luxembourg because I was almost in there. In Liechtenstein. I didn't find any host there, but I found a host in Austria, right in the border. Okay, really, I went to Liechtenstein many times but like, okay, oh, that's fun Sleeping in Austria actually yeah, yeah, because I think I tried in. And it's actually a local bus to go from one city to another.

Igar: 45:09

Yeah, it's like normal public bus. Yeah, kind of it's not even.

Rodrigo: 45:12

It doesn't feel like changing the country.

Igar: 45:16

Because I also tried, but not later than Luxembourg. I couldn't find. So we've been with friends just one day and then keep going.

Rodrigo: 45:26

Your friend was in Germany, or?

Igar: 45:27

where? No, no friend, it was Taiwanese friend. We traveled together, but we tried to find the house in Luxembourg. We were going on the way to Paris. Actually, it's actually a trip that I mentioned when we were chilling in the park and observing people.

Rodrigo: 45:43

But where did you sleep?

Igar: 45:45

On a gas station. Because we were hitchhiking. So we decided, okay, why we should be in the city. We had a look, everything. So let's go already prepare for our morning Way, you know, to the go. So we went to the, we bought a lot of snacks, so cool stuff, you know to treat ourselves well, but we slept on gas station Not the best, yeah, like kind of on the table, like this head down, like in the, you know.

Rodrigo: 46:08

Oh, you had a table. In the school, in the school.

Igar: 46:11

We have also tent in case we could open tent and everything. But there was really nice kind of gas station with like soft chairs. Of course you cannot lay, but like as a school vibe to sleep on the table like in sitting on the kind of couch.

Rodrigo: 46:26

It's kind of couch. It's good when we're young, right?

Igar: 46:30

yeah, but yeah, still still nowadays.

Igar: 46:33

I mean I could do that because I'm really flexible and I try to be more flexible, but it's something that I oh, but all night, you know, even in the bus, you know it's like, oh, sometimes like okay, I need to stand up, need to already move it, it's coming. That's why you mentioned some like when you had chat out of podcast about yoga. That's why I started to do it, like last year and a little bit plus, like more actively and like more constantly, let's say like this and actively as well. You know, before I think I didn't do it, because exactly this, like, just I want to keep this body a little bit up to date.

Igar: 47:14

You know, and, to be honest, that gave me a lot like, like it's another topic, but this yoga gives me a lot, and how I recharge and how I breathe, like again this nose techniques and a lot, a lot of, and mentally, like I'm going out, I'm like so refreshed after after day, I'm like smiling, I'm even buying in the shop, like I mentioned for me once, like it was an accidently I'm just hoping my basket, just like healthy stuff, because usually I like snacks, I like chips and stuff, and then like hope, and there's like fruits and like oh, wow, and only after yoga I'm like you know something good, like fruit salad or something I don't know, man, like, just like, somehow it works, beautiful stuff.

Igar: 47:55

But again coming back to body and to the um, yeah, and that like sleeping randomly everywhere, like I had those times, also like super budget trips. Now at least I like tent, for me no problem because I have comfortable um, how the name of in English will be when you put air, like by mouth, in the mattress, like like the blowing blowing, let's say blowable mattress. Can you see like this?

Igar: 48:24

I don't know, but it's really comfortable, like it's small but like you know the mattress, yeah yeah yeah, yeah like in the tent, but you sleep, you on the mattress you lay on normal stuff, it's not. Still they. Even more comfortable options exist, but they're bigger. This is super compact, but at least you know like this I will handle, but I don't know for how long how many days, let's say you can be.

Rodrigo: 48:48

So you should enjoy your 29 years. Yeah, yeah that's why he is at 35 comes. I know.

Igar: 48:55

That's why I'm like doing this to prepare this time, like people. I saw some video on instagram that, like in 30s you prepare to your 40s. You know, in 20s you prepare for 30s and I think my 20s I didn't really much prepare.

Rodrigo: 49:06

You know, I feel completely young, like I could handle all this stuff. It's just that I what's best you know Like what's best for me to do, but I could do exactly like that. Maybe I'll do that one time.

Igar: 49:25

But even like again, like parties and stuff, you know, like, like we discussed with friends lately also topic that with age also, like I don't drink but they do. And he said, man, before that I could drink like all night, party, hope morning, like somehow exist all day and not even sleep, like the same my student years. And he said like, but now if I drink with friends next day, forget like I'm like recovering, had everything, and go over like crazy. Yeah, I use this like a lot, I know, but I couldn't find like other words you know like a lot difficult to recover. I don't know how it's with you. Do you mention it with age?

Rodrigo: 50:11

I don't drink a lot, so I I can say but it's different. Like my metabolism is not the same anymore, that's a matter of fact. Like 10 years, 25, 35. I'm still young, I'm not complaining, I can do whatever I want. It's not like I don't have any problems, any troubles about walking and moving. No, no, no, no, it's not like that.

Rodrigo: 50:35

I'm still young about walking and moving, no no, no, it's not like that I'm still young, but it's better if I sleep well, because I get to enjoy more than the other day, like it's something that I think about, like nature gave me, like this, more thinking. We're talking about that. I'm feeling person, but as I'm getting more mature, I'm improving my thinking skills. So I'm not like impulsive anymore, even though I have my impulsive part, but I'm more like okay, so I have to find a host for tomorrow. If I don't find, I'm going to have to book a hostel. It's more like organized, even though I don't have a plan. And this is why this trip is so interesting to me, because I have to deal with no plans but at the same time, I have some sort of a plan. You have a general idea. Yeah, I have an idea, exactly. It can change, I know I'm not in control, but I have an idea.

Rodrigo: 51:38

I have a plan b you know, like if something goes wrong here then I cover it. So yeah, major, I'm more mature, so I wouldn't do stuff like crazy stuff, impulsive stuff. So what about?

Igar: 51:54

what about? What about going by car with another guy? Why? What about going by car with some random dude? It's, it's impulsive, quite no what's impulsive, actually?

Rodrigo: 52:09

that this is the thing.

Igar: 52:10

What's impulsive? I think it's more, with vibe going right. It's not impulsivity, it's more with vibe going right. It's not impulsivity, it's more like impulsivity.

Rodrigo: 52:17

Maybe it's something maybe more reactive like can be connected to like when you're something like like maybe, maybe more attached to a reaction, yeah, into an action, right, yeah, maybe for you.

Igar: 52:30

You like, you like this guy, like you like this whole trip was somehow impulsive to me, Like imagine.

Rodrigo: 52:36

I could get a job literally five days before I come here. I was supposed to be like here, like vacation 10 days or nothing more than that. Here. I am like after 50 days and more. So it was impulsive somehow, but somehow we know what we want in life indeed I also even those impulsive reactions or actions we have, like they're come from somewhere, exactly exactly it's.

Rodrigo: 53:09

And I was living a life, really rational, so like being a little more impulsive for me wouldn't be a problem. I have to look at my impulsive part as well. Being rational is cool, is fine, safer we're not in control of everything, but anyway it's safer. But what's about what's impulsive in life? Like how you'd handle with this situation when I have to make a decision or you have to react. How do you do that? So this is fun, yeah, so how would I deal with the fact that somebody wants to share the trip for some days with me, renting a car by the coast?

Igar: 54:00

amazing, like, yeah, amazing actually I think I had a also similar story, a guy from cowish surfing. We've been late like one of my last trip in Jordan and um and like just like guy from Couch Orphan, polish guy. Actually he was like asking to hang out, so we hang out, and then he's like yeah, guys, I'm renting a car like if you want to join me, we will just cut the gasoline fuel price.

Rodrigo: 54:30

Yeah.

Igar: 54:32

And we were like, wow, like, of course, like and that was really cool, we had super cool time, amazing. So yeah, um, and I I know this kind of feelings because also during the travel, because impulsivity sometimes I think maybe connecting to there's something negative most of the time, I mean but not necessarily not necessarily exactly.

Rodrigo: 54:55

That's what I'm trying to say impulsive can be positive and negative, yeah it's the same uh yeah, level that uh rationality can be positive and negative.

Igar: 55:04

Yeah, yeah and uh, what I wanted to say, that you just feel the person, you feel the trust and then you go like it. Not, maybe it can lead to something bad, but most probably not, because you have some wall breaks, like on some chat, on some feelings again, if you're not taking about thinking rationally here, but you have like this sensor of feelings, like, hey, I like this person, I feel this person, I wanna, I feel like going to church. However, I had actually opposite a little bit experience not completely bad, but a little bit unpleasant for me was really unpleasant, and actually also with polish person, but it was in croatia, also couch warfare girl. She was traveling by car and she, like I was traveling with my ex-girlfriend back then and we was, uh, um, she connect with her like they hang out. Then we had some vibe like evening, everything was kind of okay, so we could let's go together, like it's on the way, she has own car on one, she sleep there. We could sleep on tent, doesn't matter details.

Igar: 56:15

However, situation happened that, like then we went to one island together, just like in the same day when we're supposed to go, which one? Um, I forgot, uh, it was split, what island? And there, oh, maybe this one, maybe this one, maybe this one, yeah. So anyway, we went and she was there, started to kind of behave a little bit dodgy, kind of wasn't putsy for. So we're going by bicycle, you want to chill. And he's like, yeah, I'm going like this. Yeah, there, there, there, we do like this, like that.

Igar: 56:51

Okay, this was like first a little bit alert, alert about vibe. And again here I think where was our little bit mistake where we didn't feel. But again, when you have been vibe, you kind of say, okay, maybe the situation, whatever, like we have different, nobody own anybody, anything, we just keep go. And then Palm evening, and then we go to her car, like putting our bags from hostel to the car. And then I was like trying to help with like parking, because she parked like really slight tight and there was like a lot of cars and trash bins, and she was so fucking angry like during this like, because she was going out trying and she couldn't. And then there was some lady kind of trying to help you, but she was angry on her lady. She was like like this, like like, fuck, fuck, like, but in polish it's cool, it's like, and then she's like yeah it's like it's like part two you have this curve.

Igar: 57:58

Oh no, it's mean like really, I told you yesterday it's like really bad word in polish, but they use it everywhere and she was like really mad. And then what happened then? Like I was trying to move this trash bin and I scratched her car and she was like what the fuck? You know, you did this. That man, I was trying to help you. If not me, you would hit the car, like and it would cost more, I would pay. It's obviously my mistake.

Igar: 58:23

Understand who the fuck was it well no no, I was like in this like condition, like with the like rush and madness and stuff, I was trying to. I tried to move this because she was super close. I tried to move and some I don't really remember how it happened, but somehow because I was moving somehow and then one of the part of this trash bin box like I didn't kind of control and it's like it's crazy car. You know so. But the point is, of course it's my mistake. All of us are doubt. We can like agree, talk and like you know, pay and everything, like everything is cool.

Igar: 59:03

She was like putting like on me, like so much, and then we continued to go because it was already night. I didn't have choice, you know. But so, just telling the story that I kind of agreed like vibe was a little bit in the beginning good, but later on discovered it, personality of the person not really matching with me, like like I'm, I don't like this. Like you know, like what for you know like and who the fuck you are like to tell me this. Such a bullshit. You know so, but with that guy was super amazing, you know, like so chill, so nice, talk, so different, but yeah so but yeah, well, first of all it looks like the impulsive one was this girl that you are not, you guys deciding to go there, yeah, second.

Rodrigo: 59:47

Uh, you consider that a bad experience? Because I don't.

Igar: 59:53

Unpleasant, because then I was like somebody wrote on me like you, motherfucker, like why did you do this, you know?

Rodrigo: 59:59

like it wasn't a bad experience if you think about how much you've learned.

Rodrigo: 1:00:05

Indeed indeed For learning operations Dealing with people you know, getting more contact with what is good and what's not. Probably like you decided to go with her because of good vibe, that you find out that it wasn't that good, so it was kind of your mistake. So what you learn from that. So probably next time you'll be like more. I have to check it out first. I have to pay more attention at the first signs. So that means it was a good experience, tough to go through, but as a result you have positive things. And this is how I try to handle things, because life is never the easiest. Life is trouble behind trouble. Handle things because life is never the easiest. Like life is trouble behind trouble, trouble, and when you think you're done you have another trouble. So you have to deal with that. You have to learn from that. So it's always a positive thing. Indeed, indeed, as you did, like I went with this guy who was traveling alone. We rented a car, we had beautiful days together, but when I figured out I had to split.

Rodrigo: 1:01:27

I had to go through separate ways, I did it. We can change, like as like, the track we planned can change. We can change like as like the track we planned can change. We can also change. So that's it. So I, in positive I got to go to Bosnia and Zergovina, which is not planned at all. Of course, I didn't get to go to Luxembourg, but Bosnia gave me many pages of my diary Perfect, perfect. That's what it has to be like, that's what life's meant to be. That's what I'm looking for. Actually, it wasn't planned, there wasn't the most pleasing experience, but I grew, I like I'm, I'm different now. So this is what I'm looking for when I go back to brazil. I have to find a job, I have to deal the real stuff, but I'm gonna for sure be more prepared for that.

Rodrigo: 1:02:34

And this trip has been good for it. You know, I'm feeling more.

Igar: 1:02:42

I'm feeling happier first of all because traveling is always good, but I'm feeling more grown up now somehow now somehow beautiful, beautiful, say cool, rodrigo, uh, really nice, really nice chat we're having and, however, I think we can wrap up, you know, slowly and well, if you have some words, I don't know, for listeners, for travelers, uh, you already said many beautiful words, like what, like people can note, you know, uh, and personal ones and yeah. However, if you have something to say, feel free to difficult.

Rodrigo: 1:03:29

I think I've said a lot already. You did. There's a lot of more stuff to say but, yeah, of course, there are a lot of more stuff to say, but, yeah, things that we said a lot in this conversation was it's all about perspective, perspective, nice, it's all about perspective. So no judgment. Everybody says from their own perspective. So everybody says from their own perspective. So it is what it is like. Everybody has its own history, so it's all about perspective and yeah, yeah a lot of stuff that we've already discussed here.

Rodrigo: 1:04:13

It's really cool, I really liked it, I have great time and it's also really nice like traveling is perfect. But talking about the travel, talking about the experiences is fantastic. It's the reason, like it's the deal, so makes me almost reflection.

Igar: 1:04:39

Nice, it's cool then thank you for this moment. Yeah, thank you too. High five was cool. Thank you, guys. I don't know. Last words from me. Just like you know, enjoy more, travel more. All will be cool.