E7 - Balancing Careers and Travel Dreams with Melanie and Jay

What if your passion for travel could take you to 100 countries before the age of 50? Join us in an inspiring conversation with seasoned travelers Melanie and Jay, as they recount their extraordinary adventures spanning continents and climates. Jay, hailing from India and now a long-term resident of New Zealand, shares how he juggles his IT career with raising a daughter and fulfilling his ambitious travel goals. Meanwhile, Melanie, a dedicated primary school teacher, reveals how she maximizes her school holidays and even took a term off for extended adventures. Together, they share heartwarming stories and practical tips that will ignite your wanderlust.

Antarctica, the Everest Base Camp, and the bustling streets of Nepal—our guests take us on a whirlwind tour of some of the most awe-inspiring destinations on Earth. You'll hear about the logistical ease and unexpected warmth of an Antarctic expedition, the notorious Drake Passage, the charming (if messy) penguin colonies, and the camaraderie developed on such voyages. From there, we move to the heights of Everest, offering practical advice on fitness, hydration, and acclimatization. A memorable detour to Rome amidst a train strike further illustrates the unpredictable yet exhilarating nature of travel.

Traveling as a couple can be both rewarding and challenging, and Melanie and Jay share their secrets for success. With Jay's big-picture planning and Melanie’s attention to day-to-day details, they balance each other out perfectly. Listen as they discuss the importance of mutual support and flexibility, enriching experiences of Couchsurfing, and the deep cultural connections made through budget travel. Their stories offer a treasure trove of practical advice and cultural insights, encouraging you to embrace travel opportunities and make meaningful connections along the way.

Connect with guests:

• Jay's Couchsurfing: https://www.instagram.com/thisis.jaeh
• Melanie's Couchsurfing: https://www.couchsurfing.com/people/melanie-esterman

Connect with me:

• Igar Garai Instagram: https://instagram.com/igargarai
• or be my CS guest: https://www.couchsurfing.com/people/igar-garai

Transcript

Igar: 0:00

Hello, travelers from around the globe, and welcome on the episode 7 of my travel cast. Today I would like to talk about journey and life because I have interesting guests Melanie, who born and raised in New Zealand, and Jay from India, who immigrated to New Zealand two decades ago, where he met Melanie like 11 years ago, and since then they travel, travel and travel like 11 years ago and since then they travel, travel and travel. Guys, welcome, welcome, many thanks for participation and, uh, yeah, cool how are you doing?

Jay: 0:33

yeah, we're great. Thank you for asking us to come and join you on your podcast right, uh, can you maybe introduce like briefly yourself.

Igar: 0:41

I already said a little bit, man, maybe you would like to add something you know.

Jay: 0:45

So I'm Jay. I'm 49 years old, I was born in India and I moved to New Zealand with my young family. My daughter was one year old and then pretty much the last 20 years have been sort of making sure I look after her, raise her and everything, so I didn't have a lot of time to travel. But now that she's old and out of the house, that gives us more time to travel. And then I met Melanie, who is also very interested in traveling. So that was obviously the best thing ever for me and for the last 11 years we try to travel as much as we can.

Melanie: 1:19

I'm Melanie. I'm 40 years old. I'm a primary school teacher from New Zealand. Every time there's a school holiday, that's when I travel. So I don't travel as much as Jay, but I travel when I can.

Igar: 1:31

Right, that's what I wanted to ask you like how you combine your travel with, like teacher job. But you already answered yeah, like you got holidays but you need. There's no other option. Yeah, you cannot like take some vacations or something to travel as much as jay right yes, so this time I've got special permissions I'm taking a term off, but I can't do that all the time right, right, exactly interesting and jay you. What are you doing?

Jay: 1:57

so I'm into it. I'm a business analyst and I I'm a contractor. So right so basically what it means is um, essentially I can take as much holidays as I want, because they don't pay me when I'm not working. Obviously, I've got responsibilities and projects to work with, but usually it's all right to take holidays, so that's how I can travel a little bit more.

Igar: 2:17

Cool, cool, cool. Yeah, this IT stuff, you know, privilege, privilege, yeah, and well, I saw that you, you are you, jay, personally, right, we a little bit discuss it together. But yeah, I want to open that you kind of go into your goal right for 100 countries to travel, explore the world. Melanie, you're already like what, on 85, 86, something like this melanie, a little bit behind and like you, doesn't have this goal, but so far, uh, can you tell if those countries, most of them, are together, or you, how all was this journey, like where it all started for you and this goal to get to this hundred, is it it like some child remodels?

Jay: 3:05

No, not really. Actually there was no goal. As I said before, traveling was never on my mind. I always wanted to do it, but I was raising a child so I could never travel. But I think it actually started with Melanie once coming to home and saying that she met her colleague who said her goal was to go to 50 countries before she's 50. So I'm like, okay, that's a very colleague who said her goal was to go to 50 countries before she's 50.

Igar: 3:25

50-60.

Jay: 3:25

So I'm like okay that's a very nice goal to have. So that stuck to me and I said, look, I'm going to do 50 countries by the time I'm 50. So I'm still not 50. I've got a few more months to go and that was my goal. So I said, okay, I'm going to do 50. But then somehow it got a bit out of hand.

Igar: 3:45

You, but then somehow it got a bit out of hand and I got addicted.

Jay: 3:47

Well, if I would have it my way, I want to do 100 before 50, but that's not going to happen. Hopefully, by the end of this trip I would be at 93. So that's why there's no goal. But again, as goals are, you start with one goal and as soon as you achieve that goal, you make another goal. So there is no goal as such, I just wanted to do 50 countries before I'm 50 and and all seven continents which I've done you already done so.

Igar: 4:13

I've done also in confidence? No, I have not no, what do you miss?

Melanie: 4:18

I haven't been to Antarctica or South America, yeah all right, you've been in Antarctica.

Igar: 4:23

Yep, oh boy, yes, oh, can you tell a little bit more? No, so I, because this is what I didn't even know, so I did Antarctica in 2019, just before COVID.

Jay: 4:37

So I took a sort of a expedition boat from Argentina, expedition boat from Argentina, ushuaia, and it was like a 10 day small cruise which you do from Ushuaia. So three days to cross the Drake crossing, which is one of the world's most dangerous crossing, and then you go to Antarctica. Then we had four days of exploring Antarctica because we had a smaller boat so we could go to a smaller sites and I mean I cannot explain the experience I had because it was just going on a land where no human has gone before. At one point I had about 30,000 penguins around me. So it is, it is, it is. It can't be explained, it can't be explained the fresh air and the sound and the lack of sound sometimes.

Igar: 5:29

Okay, interesting, and so it was like an expedition. Well, I would call it an expedition, what you kind of. Yeah, it was not an expedition.

Jay: 5:38

It was a tourist, but it was an expedition boat. What I mean by that is that expedition boats are a lot smaller boats and I chose them because, as I said, the that expedition boats are a lot smaller boats and I chose them because, as I said, the smaller boats can penetrate a lot more, whereas the bigger boats, if you go on a kind of a cruisy kind of boat with 2,000-3,000 people, then you are not quite going as much closer to Antarctica as possible and you only go to bigger sites.

Igar: 6:02

So that's why and you also went to the mainland right yeah, the Antarctica is very big, so obviously you can go anywhere.

Jay: 6:12

But yeah, we did about, I think, seven landings or seven or eight landings Interesting. And when was that? 2019, just before COVID.

Igar: 6:20

Just before you, lucky, lucky that you didn't stay there. Who would have been afterwards? Imagine you will have locked down.

Jay: 6:30

I can't come back.

Igar: 6:32

Interesting. Can I ask how much it was cost, just like it, because I don't know.

Jay: 6:40

It was expensive, exactly. I think the whole trip was around, I think it costed me about 15,000, was expensive, exactly I can imagine, so I think the whole trip was around. I think it costed me about 15,000 New Zealand dollars, so that's about 7,500 euros.

Igar: 6:52

But everything with all tickets. I think it's okay.

Jay: 6:55

Yeah, it was not that bad.

Igar: 6:55

Of course it's expensive to take out the pocket of money, but to think and to go God knows where.

Jay: 7:01

Yeah, exactly Because I had to fly from new zealand to to obviously then the cruise and and then, back. So yeah, but it was worth the experience, like for me at least definitely, definitely, because I was thinking.

Igar: 7:15

I know the price is for some mountains. It's himalayan, I think you also. I read you you are to everest yeah, I think it's more than the same price. Right, let's make five thousand, something like this I heard.

Jay: 7:26

Well, I think I did Everest Base Camp a little bit cheaper because I didn't what is the word I'm looking for didn't pick up the most luxury tour, and I really wanted to do that because, personally, when you're going on the mountain Everest Base Camp, it should be as basic as possible so you can explore the realness. I mean, it's not glamping, so you can. Some people do spend a lot of money where they have two or three porters with them, where they don't have to carry any food, or or they can eat with as much as they want or whatever they want, but that's not true mountain climbing, according to me. So so I didn't spend that much, uh, but yeah, it can be expensive depending upon how much you pay.

Igar: 8:11

And again the flowers. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, uh, but yeah, like this what I thought in my mind. I would like to know how much for antarctica, for example man 30 000 penguins. Oh my God. Yes, it's another one of my list, and could you kind of come to them somehow to swim, to do something In general like this? You know human interaction. Or they say like better. Not.

Jay: 8:35

So we were not allowed to obviously touch them.

Melanie: 8:38

Yeah, definitely Because they are wild, they can bite they're kind of crazy guys, but what we?

Jay: 8:43

have noticed is we are not allowed to touch them, but somehow nobody told them to not touch us. So they have not seen humans some of them ever right, because this is them. So they just come to you because they're curious and you are like please don't come to me, I'm not allowed to come close to you, but they'll come close to you and they are just walking and they fall down and they're fighting and sometimes their fight gets out of hand and they come right close to you and everything. So it was very interesting really interesting.

Igar: 9:14

Wow, cool stuff, and it's like you can go there like to find an internet and just go yeah to this expedition. It's like you don't need any permission visa for you.

Jay: 9:22

Yes, yes, so you don't need any permission visa for you, so you don't need as such, you might have to look at your passports and everything, depending upon where you're flying from. Let's say, if you're going from South America, so you need visas to get in there. But generally the boat you pick up looks after everything. So the boat I went on was all inclusive, so the food was inclusive. There was no extra cost for landing or doing some activity or something. So it depends upon what port you book. Usually it includes everything.

Jay: 9:51

I don't think you need any visas to go to antarctica yeah, yeah but maybe from where you go from that you might need a visa yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, maybe might be interesting, interesting, wow, man, like antarctica.

Igar: 10:02

What the hell really? But this hell, would you like to go?

Melanie: 10:05

No, that's why she had an option I said do you want to come with me?

Jay: 10:10

And she said why?

Igar: 10:10

would I go there, I think, he's never cold.

Jay: 10:16

It was not cold trust me. I actually had to take my jacket off at times Because Exactly because. If you're on the ice, which we wear, right, you don't get cold if you get wet.

Melanie: 10:28

It's like going to ski. People go to ski all the time, so it's the same thing.

Jay: 10:33

Like that, if you get wet, then you get cold. But but we were always geared up, we had long shoes and everything so so I think it was actually.

Melanie: 10:41

I think the pictures looked really nice yeah but um the drake passage does not sound good, that is the worst part of the trip was the Drake crossing.

Jay: 10:50

What is the Drake crossing? The ocean crossing is one of the world's rough, roughest sea For three days. We were pretty much vomiting the whole time and pills didn't help.

Igar: 11:04

Did you use a lot of pills? Yeah, we were pretty much vomiting the whole time and pills didn't help. Did you use a lot of pills? Yeah, we were having pills all the time.

Jay: 11:07

But it's not helping because you have so much seasick and our boat was smaller, which made it harder. But when I asked my crew members as of how hard it is, they said that on the scale of 1 to 10, we were only at 3. So it can get worse.

Igar: 11:25

And I was like 3, we were falling off our bed and the food was flying and you was jumping and everything.

Melanie: 11:29

So I'm like I can't imagine what 10 would look like, so that's actually put me off wanting to go.

Igar: 11:33

Oh, this is extremely.

Melanie: 11:34

I didn't know that I just thought it was quite cold. I saw the pictures.

Jay: 11:36

I'm like, oh, quite nice I love I love penguins but exactly I do not like vomiting for three days. That was the hard part, but I mean exactly because everybody's kind of in the same boat. We had to still eat and vomit. So we were doing that nonstop. There were buckets and everything. The crew looked after us because they knew we were going to vomit every day.

Igar: 11:57

But my dad, he works in a shipboat Fishman used to work and he said the same ship, boat, fish, fish man used to work. And he said the same, like if you warm, or warm it once.

Jay: 12:11

Then I forget.

Igar: 12:11

It will keep going until you've you heal itself. So if you can keep this first one, then it's somehow like it's bad feelings, but you still keep. But if you go this sick, see sickness. Yeah is taken. In a way, you're becoming like this Out of it, how you call Not dizzy, it's even worse than dizzy.

Jay: 12:28

It's like your body.

Igar: 12:31

Yeah, your body is out literally, you just lay, you're puking you know, like this I don't know temperature Did you feel, but also, I think the sea sickness is like contagious as well.

Jay: 12:41

What I mean by contagious is you smell the sickness and you start vomiting, or you hear it and you vomit.

Melanie: 12:47

So it was like a competition it was like a competition going on like somebody was holding up, one person threw up and then everybody said you know what, and?

Jay: 12:56

everybody started, so it was like there was a bit of competition. Who can vomit?

Melanie: 13:00

more. Yeah, people think traveling is glamorous. It's not always, not always right, not for everyone.

Jay: 13:06

And the other thing I would add is penguin poos a lot, so some of the eyes were not white, they were like it was black and white, like black and white eyes because they are pooping everywhere, so so the photograph looks nice, but that that's kind of the reality of it, right, yeah?

Igar: 13:21

interesting and we already touched the. What about you? Did you go to Everest?

Melanie: 13:27

No. I went to Nepal. I met him after he climbed Everest.

Igar: 13:31

Ah okay, but you've been in Nepal also, yeah. Yeah, but then like when he went through. When he came down the mountain, I met him. I went before her.

Jay: 13:40

I flew to Kathmandu. I did my base camp, I came down. But I flew to Kathmandu, I did my base camp, I came down.

Igar: 13:44

But you went to the top, top.

Jay: 13:47

No, no, no. The base camp, not the top of the Everest. That's very hard and very expensive. So I went up to the base camp and I came back. The day I came back, melanie also flew from New Zealand. Then we travelled a little bit Of Nepal and Bhutan, yeah, Nepal and Bhutan Already together and everything, yeah, nepal and Bhutan.

Igar: 14:05

Yeah, nepal and Bhutan already together and everything.

Jay: 14:06

Yeah, because Bhutan is like about one hour from Nepal. It's like for you guys going from Poland to India. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Igar: 14:13

And well, and how was Nepal in general?

Jay: 14:16

I love it Very interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah, food, food is amazing, it's very similar to the Indian food so I have a bit of familiarity with the food. Um, they do some good, amazing dumplings and they've got some good, um, indian flavored or spicy flavored curries. Rice, yeah, dal bath is their favorite food, which is like lentils and rice, the best um, yeah, and the people were really friendly too.

Melanie: 14:43

It's a really nice place. They've got a lot of monkeys the monkey temple.

Igar: 14:52

Yeah, totally monkey temple. And in general, how is the Nepal situation? How are they living with all this? Because I'm not sure China oppresses Nepal, right, I think China oppressed everybody, but they have a border sharing.

Jay: 15:07

So Nepal, china shares border with Nepal, even India, for that matter, and Pakistan, but there was nothing in.

Melanie: 15:13

Kathmandu so.

Jay: 15:14

Kathmandu is towards India's side, so I don't think there was anything there as such, we didn't notice anything we didn't notice anything. It's just a typical Asian country. It's a bit crowded, obviously, because there's not many people, a bit of chaos.

Melanie: 15:28

The roads are terrible. Yeah, I've never seen so many potholes.

Jay: 15:33

Yeah, a lot of street food people are on the street selling, so those kind of typical Asian chaos is there in Nepal.

Melanie: 15:39

That's to be expected, that's expected exactly.

Jay: 15:42

You've got to be careful with what you eat, and how you eat and where you eat, but that's just what it is and uh, nice, nice, nice, just like just short.

Igar: 15:52

Back to this everest. Is there any like also like some tips like you can uh firstly give in general for people who want to go for some beginners, like, exactly like everest is like, again, did you vomit maybe there like some pills also? No, uh, in general, how was it difficult to prepare?

Jay: 16:09

yep, I didn't vomit on on average, but I have a condition. I did poop on everest. So right, because when you're trying yeah, because when you are sometimes hiking uh, we were hiking for sometimes four, five, six hours with no toilets, yeah, yeah of course, and when you got to go, you got to go, so that's something we did.

Jay: 16:30

We all had our share of pooping in the open ground or behind a rock, but we stayed in what they call huts. So there are small houses, like village houses, where you stay. So they are very basic a bed and some simple food for you to eat. So that was there.

Melanie: 16:48

And you had to take some pills. Oh, altitude, yes, yeah, these pills, altitude sickness is a problem so altitude sickness.

Jay: 16:55

So, yes, good point, mel. I think there were two things which was very crucial. Obviously, you need to be fit if you want to do Everest Base Camp, because you've got 14 days of hiking, so general fitness is always advised you know, practice as much as you can carry some weight on your back when you're walking.

Jay: 17:13

So you get used to carrying some weight on your back because you'll be carrying weight for 14 days. But when it comes to altitude sickness, there's not much you can do other than taking altitude sickness pills. But the best thing you can do is keep on drinking a lot of water.

Jay: 17:26

Because, water has got natural oxygen. As you get higher, the body can't absorb a lot of work oxygen, but the water you can. So that's one thing I did. I see you have a sort of what do you call it the Camelback? We call it the water. With this camelback, we call it the, the water.

Jay: 17:46

With this, all right right yeah, this for bicycle yeah you can keep sipping on it while you're walking, so that you don't have to go and reach your water bottle and and take it. So you constantly drink. So drink as much water as you can and just be general fitness and and, yeah, do your best. But generally the tour company you go with are very, very nice, like they look after you, they check your oxygen every night to make sure you have enough oxygen and if you don't have enough oxygen, they would either make you wait till you recover or, at times, what we did was we wanted to adjust to the altitude. So what we did was at namchi bazaar is a classic example where you have a two-day halt so you don't go up until you have climatized, and every day you climb a little bit up and then you come down again, so just to get your body used to the higher altitude, and so on interesting.

Melanie: 18:40

Even if you do everything right, you can still have just bad luck.

Jay: 18:43

Yeah, yeah, I was all right, like there were people who had to be flown back, but that's just what it is, yeah but I think also, if you go higher and like it's getting more and more, yeah, exactly, exactly the air gets thinner. Um, you lose your appetite? You don't, and it was cold, so you don't want to drink too much water, because it's easy to drink water when it's hot, but when?

Jay: 19:03

it's cold so you don't want to drink too much water, because it's easy to drink water when it's hot, but when it's cold and the water is freezing as well and you're walking and you're tired and you don't want to eat, so your body is not getting that much natural minerals and vitamins. What you need and you, melanie.

Igar: 19:21

Let's go to your stories. Do you have or maybe again stories in common? It's also very, very much welcome to share. But, like you know, do you have any memorable stories funny or like some, challenging how you like, or maybe a personal you know?

Melanie: 19:41

Oh well, one time we were traveling in Rome and I understood that they were going to have a train strike. But we go to the train station. It's open. We're like, maybe it's tomorrow. I don't know, I don't speak Italian, so we hop on the train, we go out for the day, everything's great. Go back to the train Box.

Melanie: 20:01

So we're like really far from Rome. We don't know how to get back, but in the end Jay managed to bribe a local with some money and they drove us back to Rome. So sometimes things go wrong.

Jay: 20:12

Yeah, yeah yeah, the whole sort of public system was on strike.

Melanie: 20:17

So there's no buses, there's no train.

Jay: 20:19

There's no way to get back to Rome.

Melanie: 20:21

I knew there was a strike. I understood that, but I didn't understand If this works. I understood that, but I didn't understand exactly the time, because I can't understand the language, so it didn't help knowing that since we still went on the train. We're like oh must be wrong must be fine. Obviously, it started at midday or something.

Jay: 20:41

Most of our disaster overseas are due to the language barrier.

Melanie: 20:49

When we don't understand the language or we don't. Yeah's like the time you ordered a latte.

Jay: 20:52

Yeah, so I was in italy. I thought, wow, I need to go and try coffee italian style. So I went to this coffee bar and I said, look, I'm gonna order a coffee italian style. So I said. I went to the guy and said I, I want a latte. And he looked at me saying latte. I said, yes, latte please. And he asked me again are you sure you want a latte? And I knew there was something wrong. But I kept saying yes, I want a latte. So he went back and he brought me the frothy milk. And the story behind this is in New Zealand, when you say latte, it's automatically default, means means cafe latte, that means it's a coffee with yeah it's everywhere, but not in Italy.

Jay: 21:35

Yeah, for them.

Igar: 21:36

I don't believe it exists even. Yeah, it's just milk. That's what he said to you.

Jay: 21:39

Yeah, so he gave me a milk like as if I'm a kid and I said where's the coffee? I said you asked for a latte.

Melanie: 21:45

I said, yes, I asked for a latte, but where's?

Jay: 21:47

the coffee and he got so upset at me it's a cafe latte because Italians, you know and

Melanie: 21:53

he's like you want a latte take your milk.

Igar: 21:55

There's no coffee, drink the coffee. You know so that was a true maximum cappuccino. Sometimes you order a ca on the daytime if you do it in the evening? I think they will might yeah, because I saw the videos and something they was looking now cappuccino in the morning, in the afternoon you have a lot of room and I somehow admire them.

Igar: 22:21

I have some, yeah, of course, like a little bit guys like what the fuck you know? Kind of detail, but at the time really admire that people keep their culture the way it is At least they're still keeping it somehow. And I think it's really difficult in the global world to keep these roots, you know, and be still progressive and still you know, but still try to save somehow. You know all world already make this pizza with pineapples and something, but they still try to save somehow. You know all world already make this pizza with pineapples and something, but they still say, no, guys, you cannot, you know it's. It's interesting, really interesting approach from the cultural perspective. Yeah, well, I want to open up the part.

Igar: 23:01

You know, um, uh, as a couple travel as a you know, you guys a little bit more adult, elder, right, more grown up than me and like then also the first guest I had in the podcast also was a nice, sweet young couple. However, really for me interesting to see it from your approach because at least you can imagine, right, like when it's young people and when they travel together, it's a lot of for you definitely the same. But I mean young people more reactive, yeah, they more into argue into something or into this. So how you challenging the situation? Because definitely when you travel you have like a lot of time together some uh small random stress situations, you know, or anything can go wrong.

Igar: 23:56

Somebody want to go, somebody not, somebody tired, somebody want to eat, somebody want to sleep always it's like just constant travel issue however, I'm just really curious how you going through it and like what changes you have or how maybe you already know some stories, what you had and how you went through this, or how you learn each other, because it's also very much learning process, right like to the yeah well, jay's like the big planner.

Melanie: 24:22

He comes up with the big ideas and says I want to go these countries and I'm more the day-to-day planner. But when it's a long trip like this one, I go on strike sometimes I'm just too tired and then he like takes over for the day because he can see I'm just not having it. So I think when one of us is having a bad day, the other one just helps.

Jay: 24:43

So we take turns.

Melanie: 24:44

It's very rare we're both having a bad day.

Jay: 24:46

But also, like when you travel, often you really do understand each other's habits and the strength and the weakness. My weakness is I can't pay attention to details sometimes when Melanie comes in. So if I would have to pay somewhere or I forgot my credit card or anything like that, mel pays more attention to that than me and I have to make sure that Melanie is well fed and everything, because she gets tired. When she gets tired, she can't decide what to eat and she needs the food at the right time. So, having a snack with me, like today, we already brought food for her in the morning because I know we'll be on the bus and if she gets on the bus without any food, she'll be upset and tired and hangry. So that's basically what it is. Look, we're not perfect. We fight and we disagree, but that's just healthy. Ultimately we do manage to resolve whatever problem we haven't had, because one of us would probably better at that than the other one, you know yeah, I don't think it's any different when you're younger, when you're older to be honest.

Jay: 25:59

I think it's more like how long you spent with that person so we've traveled together so often we have a rhythm like I know he's gonna wake up later than me, so I don't wake him up just easy the other thing also, like we've been traveling for a while now, so I guess, uh, the other advantage we have is I don't want to say that, but it's kind of seen it all, done it all kind of thing, so you don't get a lot of surprises, you, you go with the flow and if things don't work out, whatever it is, we say, oh well, let's move on.

Melanie: 26:26

You don't sort of yeah, like when is your first trip?

Jay: 26:29

you can get really, um, I think, overwhelmed or stressed out, whereas we're like, oh, it'll be fine yeah and and now, now, and it's kind of, after traveling a lot, you don't have to do everything, because when we started traveling, every city we go to we have to go and do all the museum and we got to see all the activities and we have to do the cable car and we have to go and do all the museum and we got to see all the activities and we have to do the cable car and we have to do everything up the town, whatever the city has got, and we have to do it right.

Jay: 26:54

Two things is it does cost a lot of money, but also the planning, because you have to try to fit everything into your schedule within a day or two. Yeah, like, the museums don't open on wednesday, or it opens at 10 o'clock and this closes at afternoon, whereas now we just do whatever we can and we don't have to go to every museum we are happy.

Melanie: 27:13

It doesn't matter if it's shut yeah, so it's okay, like.

Jay: 27:16

So that's been another advantage that we don't have to do everything. It does cost less now and less stress so we can get up a little bit later in the morning and and come back. You know, food wise, we're getting more, more tolerant as as the day go by, so we don't have to have the right food every time. So sometimes you're hungry, we just have fish and chips, or sometimes you're hungry, we have a pizza.

Igar: 27:37

You know right, right, so, yeah, good, good, so, like just simply to see how it goes.

Melanie: 27:44

Yeah, let it be, like you know, interesting, interesting I think, uh, until you travel with you don't know if it will work. Totally, absolutely, Like so many people go to travel with a friend and it's a disaster, yeah exactly, but you don't know, until you try Totally. So there's no secret formula. Totally, it's nothing, right, or?

Jay: 28:00

wrong, it's just two different. As Melanie said, I like to sleep in in the morning Sorry, melly's an early starter like, but we don't go clubbing or drinking, so that's a good thing, we can sleep a little bit early and then both of us are ready for the day.

Igar: 28:13

Yesterday it was clubbing huh, oh boy, and it makes sense. But I totally agree with you that it's absolutely, it really makes sense. It's not about also like couple or something, even like with friends yeah, you can be good friend, you go travel and respond it's because you can have different expectations, different temple of human life, right like when you meet two friends, just meet two.

Jay: 28:39

Yeah, yeah, it's different at home and then when you go somewhere else, yes, yes, yes you see the true behavior or true colors um when you travel with them somehow.

Igar: 28:49

Yes, you're absolutely right because you see under the pressure exactly when things are fine, you've got everything planned.

Jay: 28:56

Yeah, that's fine, then it's all everything good. But if you? If then things go wrong you missed a bus, or you couldn't eat, or you couldn't sleep or your booking is cancelled.

Melanie: 29:06

That's when the reality hits in and we very rarely do a tour like we always do our own thing, so there's more things that can go wrong.

Jay: 29:17

There's no one there to help but then also we have to blame ourselves. We don't have anybody right, right, come on I told you to do this.

Igar: 29:26

Yeah right, uh, interesting, you touch something nice and I wanna like, just open it up. So, um, the way of travel, because you say you don't book, for example, tours, you don't do such things, and you know how you can classify your way of travel like is it, like I don't know?

Igar: 29:52

let's say, uh, you allowed yourself air, you know you like you go all in, you know like you have some saves, savings, and then you kind of spend through some period of time, but nicely, or you trying to be on like I don't know like, anything is whatever how it is for you, yeah normally we travel more on a budget, but we have done some other trips that are more expensive, like we went to kenya and that one we did do a private tour, so it was more expensive. It's just us two and we went around.

Jay: 30:25

That was all pretty much organized, so what I would say, we would call ourselves as budget travelers but not necessarily budget as of like we live in motels or dorm rooms and everything.

Jay: 30:38

What we mean by budget travelers is we take care of our money, so we only pay for things which are worth. So we are not fancy restaurant eaters or we go drinking out in the night or we take taxis everywhere. So we try to use public transport. We use couchsurfing or cheaper hotels and eat at the local place, like the one we recommended today was very cheap, but it was very local experience.

Melanie: 31:06

We were standing in the queue. We had no idea what we're ordering.

Jay: 31:09

We had no idea how to get the food. What does?

Melanie: 31:11

it look like it was fun. It was fun. And it's like in asia we eat on the street, we always eat street food.

Igar: 31:17

We actually like it better, but um it's.

Melanie: 31:20

It's also cheaper, but we enjoy it, yeah.

Jay: 31:22

So people don't realize how much money you can save if you use public transport. Eat at local places. You're helping the economy. You are getting the real cultural experience.

Jay: 31:33

Because I always believe and I tell people if you want to travel to a country, you need to travel as minimum as possible. Stay in people's house, eat at a local place and do things that the tourists don't do. Eat at a local place and do things what the tourists don't do. If you're going to go in a four star or five star hotel, you pretty much eat the breakfast what you eat at home. You have all the hotels possibly look the same and and you don't get a local interaction.

Igar: 31:58

Yeah, same for restaurants, mcdonald's stuff exactly, exactly, yeah, yeah, but I don't, I don't think there's a right or a wrong way. Yeah, it's not about judgment, it's about yes, yes, yes they want the five star experience, they want that relaxation yeah, why not but for us.

Melanie: 32:16

We don't. We wouldn't say that our holidays are relaxing.

Jay: 32:20

I would say they're more cultural experiences but they're not relaxing and like I, thanks to Couchsurf surfing and all the people we met on the way. We made friends, like we have got friends everywhere now, uh, which, uh, which is quite nice. So we're not going to hotel to hotel, because how many times would you remember your waiter's name and do you know where his birthday was and what he's doing? No, you don't, but I know most of them, uh, personally, like you know we are on Facebook, we stay in touch.

Jay: 32:48

Maybe not every time, but we still say hello to each other every now and then yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

Igar: 32:53

And how did you come to couchsurfing? How this idea?

Melanie: 32:57

Actually, I didn't know about it until my friend she lives in New Zealand but she's from America she told me about it and I was like, oh, that sounds strange. She told me about it and I was like, oh, that sounds strange.

Igar: 33:09

Why would people let?

Melanie: 33:09

you stay in their house. But we had a look, we signed up, we tried it and we loved it.

Igar: 33:13

Where did you try first? In New Zealand? No, in Europe. So you did for real test, you know.

Melanie: 33:19

Last time we came to Europe in 2018, we tried it and we thought we might just spend a night or two, but we ended up spending many, many nights in different houses and it was amazing like in salzburg, we got to go to this place on the mountains and live up there for a night or two. It was just really different and meet lots of people and they can tell you, you know, about the local food, the local culture.

Jay: 33:42

They can explain things we met their parents, we met their dog, we went for a walk with them, we met your friends today, things like that. So there's a lot of interaction when you are.

Melanie: 33:54

It's not big in New Zealand. Most people haven't heard of it, so if my friend hadn't, told me I wouldn't know All right, there are some people, but it's not something that everyone's heard of.

Igar: 34:04

Yeah, and do you do any? Did you try any local meetings? Is hangouts something easy?

Melanie: 34:09

no, we have not just out of curiosity how it works. Yeah, okay but after our trip to europe last time, after a year or so, we had covid and so we weren't even on couch surfing because we couldn't leave the country. No one could come in the country and they introduced paying the money and we were like, well, we can't go anywhere. So we were off it for a while, until recently and any other apps.

Igar: 34:34

Did you try to find alternatives?

Jay: 34:36

we tried to wait, because the moment I found out that couchsurfing is now paid, we said oh, let's look at what people are doing. So I went to be welcome or something like yeah, I think I don't think there's anybody there, or super small, I think it's less than one million people even for worldwide, worldwide, uh, cowish orphan, I think.

Igar: 34:54

Last time when I was checking statistic, it was also more or less the same times, as you like, covered times when it was money star subscription and I think beWelcome was the closest competitor and there is other application and, if I remember, if not BeWelcome, maybe another one, but I think it's BeWelcome because in my mind it's coming. So it was 600 thousand followers, 600 thousand something, and couchsurfing is 11 millions yeah, it's just such a big platform up, uncomparable even like facebook groups or something.

Igar: 35:31

There is also facebook local groups like. I know that people in russia they create um, because I don't know how it works now, but lately when I've been there on my couch warfare or where I stay and how you call it. Come shorter. Anyway my host right, and she told that there is a guy create a group, not in Facebook, in Russian Facebook, this VK VKontakte, the group kind of Kouchorv in Gorostov, the city of the.

Melanie: 36:00

Yeah.

Igar: 36:01

Or something like this and like he is doing it there and people, when come, they text hey, I'm coming, somebody can Kind of like this, but inside just the social media. Yeah, I'm coming, somebody can kind of do like this, but inside just the social media. Yeah, uh, I don't remember why he started to do this way. Uh, this alternative or maybe telegram group, but something he created anyway. So people kind of trying to get uh and I personally know people, some German guys, they was trying to create some alternative platform, because they was. They mostly was made on functionality of couchsurfing that is not developing, that is you know uh, so they was. They mostly was made on functionality of couchsurfing that is not developing, that is you know, uh. So they was trying to create alternative, but I don't know how it's going. I lost the link, my bad, yeah, yeah, because I really I'm really would like to see, but I really lost it, I don't know. Um, all right, so something like this, and so no other apps, nothing, no, I think we're not using couchsurfing.

Melanie: 36:53

We will normally use bookingcom. Yeah, we just book a hotel.

Jay: 36:57

We've done a few times during the trip where some of the cities is not hard to find a host, partly because the city is too busy and it's so premium that they rent out their rooms or Airbnb and so on. So that's fine, that's okay. We do have a budget kept aside in case if we don't find a post.

Igar: 37:22

Well, and I wanted to ask you so far, is there any funny couchsurfing stories?

Jay: 37:29

No, not really funny couchsurfing stories?

Jay: 37:30

No, not really. No funny. Obviously, couchsurfing by itself means funny stories and not funny stories in the sense it's interesting. I would say right, because every person you meet is different. They are different walk of life, different age, like you're probably half my age, so we obviously going to have a little bit of difference in our viewing. You obviously grew up in belarus, we grew up in new zealand, or I grew up in india and new zealand, so there's always a bit of cultural differences. When you go to a hotel, everything is expected there's a table, there's, there's toilet papers, there's no rules as such. You know you can leave your baggage behind where scouts are. Thing by itself comes up with all of those complications, right where you have to sometimes have a language barrier, sometimes you have to stay in a room, or sometimes you don't have a bed, and sometimes the bed, there's no pillow, all of those things.

Jay: 38:31

But that's what makes it interesting, right? So you, you can't expect everything. So we've had some amazing couch experience where where, uh, in lubiana, we stayed with this lady and the house was like the most perfect house I have ever seen like you could imagine it in a magazine Houses. Everything is perfect. There was towers the only thing which was missing was chocolate on our pillow and fountain and room service, but other than that it was perfect. Like you wouldn't even be able to get that service if you were in a five-star hotel.

Igar: 39:08

I should check in Leblon coverage offering because I was in hostel and it was really bad.

Jay: 39:15

Yes, and then, similarly, we had cow surfing where, where it was not as as as as great it should be.

Jay: 39:21

But that's just that's just what it is that's just what it is right people, people are doing their best, so it's I don't think it's a location on them. And, again, everybody. You're going into their house, right, so you have to be mindful of how they live, and the cleanliness or the way they keep their house, or clothes or dishes, or everything is very different to everybody. So you can't really and that's one beauty of traveling longer you become tolerant or more adaptable to all of these things, right, which makes you more humble that, yes, that is what, how they live, that's how they, they survive. So you know, you accept them and move on.

Igar: 40:03

I really agree with this approach. What you have, that you go to some other people way of living, how they live like, not to judge. You know, somebody has a like in the any way the best, sorry, in any way in. Uh, in any case of scenario, the people give you the best exactly like that if they already accept you. That mean they already trying. Yeah, maybe something would be not perfect, totally agree clearness or something, but it's not because person want to do something to you, just personally like this person who lives like this maybe you know maybe some are

Igar: 40:33

difficult at a stage of life you never know.

Jay: 40:35

You know it's like in the classic example, we were staying in this person in the night. He turns off his internet, so that's just the way he is. It's not like doing that to to piss us off, but that's what he does every day. He turns off the lights and everything in the internet, and that's very unheard of. We would never do that you know the internet stays on the whole night, but he said no, I save the power, I turn off the internet. Okay, that's how you live, you know we've had couch surfing.

Melanie: 41:04

Last time, where the people weren't even there, they were like the keys hidden the keys hidden here. Let yourself in. I'm overseas um enjoy, yeah, which is really and you've never seen them. No, never seen them. No, and they're very trusting. It's a very trusting community in the house and leave the keys and go.

Jay: 41:21

That's nice. And then there was this time we had a person who, uh, luckily we came to his house. He said oh, you guys, welcome, here's the key. I'm sorry, I have to go for two days for my work, so so the house is yours see you later in belgrade. Right, he just was with us with one day.

Melanie: 41:43

Then he said I'm going away for a holiday, but he warned me, the other guy didn't tell us till we got there that he was actually going away for a work he said just lock the house and leave.

Jay: 41:51

I said, okay, hopefully you'll come back with all your furniture or else I'm going to sell it all. So it's very good. And then there are account surfers who won't even give you a key. Yeah, so you have to go out when they go and you come. I mean, thankfully, with COVID, a lot of people are working from home now, so that's a good thing. Now People are a lot more at home than what they were before. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Igar: 42:16

Interesting, interesting. So you mentioned also Ljubljana and Belgrade and I know that you travel around here like Eastern Europe and like Balkans here there and like Balkans here there. So how was going this trip? And like, can you drop some highlights where you're going, how you're going and yeah, you can go well, the trip, the trip's going really well.

Melanie: 42:43

we're really enjoying everything. I think what's interesting for us was the Balkans, the similarities between all the countries, and I know that they used to be joined. We learned a lot actually that we didn't know before the food.

Jay: 43:00

I think personally, for me the biggest differentiation or commonality is based on the food. So when I see the food is similar, I can see that they were together at some stage of their life because they put similar thing. They might rename it, they might call it that, we call it this here and we call it there, but you can see that it's the same food with a little bit of variation. So food is the most important thing for me, and then obviously the language right, which again for us everything sounds the same, unfortunately you can see it's similar.

Jay: 43:35

They have the same alphabet yeah, and then the people the people makes makes what what it is. So overall, our experience has been great because we met some amazing people. I don't think we even met one other than the driver who was upset at us. So this was a story. We were in Ljubljana again. The Ljubljana recently introduced an app where you can pay the bus ticket on an app, and so Melanie paid through the app and the bus driver would not accept that and started yelling at us and wanted to get off the bus and pay and everything. But that's just what it is. He might not know about the app, or so sometimes the language could be a barrier where they are trying to tell you something of they. Maybe they were trying to help you and you just don't understand and then they give up.

Melanie: 44:21

So yeah, and croatia was super beautiful. We really enjoyed croatia. We went to the lakes national park and it was amazing.

Jay: 44:35

The other most interesting thing is every time we tell somebody we are going here or we came from here, they have no idea what we are saying, because we cannot say the words here, because like yes, so again we would say here we are at Wauklo. I'm sure you're saying it differently.

Melanie: 44:54

yeah, wrocław yes exactly so when we come back and we have a conversation saying, where have you been?

Jay: 45:00

and I say I've been here and they're like where is that?

Melanie: 45:03

where is that?

Jay: 45:04

it's a different language. Yeah, this is true, this is true. It's not the language, it's just the way you say and some of the sound and thing that has been the most interesting thing. Going to supermarket always is always the most interesting thing, because everything is different. They look different, name different.

Igar: 45:23

This is true. This is true, this is my day Nice, nice, nice, nice and, in general, you know guys, good conversation, like I'm enjoying also. However, let's we can maybe slowly wrap it up right, because we opened several nice topics and, like a couple travels and, like you, shared the stories, very, very interesting stories. You know, I also still, I also still, like you know, need to process and maybe ask you more later on and, uh, well, and so far, how is going? What is your like favorite country around this area?

Jay: 46:03

oh, I can't tell you that because that would be creating another war here. I think all countries are beautiful. As I I said before, they all are very different, but by feelings, you know like.

Igar: 46:12

Don't judge by criteria, it's just like.

Jay: 46:14

Personally, because New Zealand doesn't have a lot of history, it's a fairly new country. I like old towns and old structures. So for me, any city which has got old towns, your town, is beautiful because it has so much history. Split was nice, dubrovnik was nice, modstar was nice and again, there was nothing about cities, just that they had a lot more older structure and history for us. I personally don't like modern cities because we live in a modern city, so I don't get excited about skyscrapers or fancy glass buildings. So that would be my differentiation of what I like and not. But that does not mean that city is not good or bad. I also like cities which has got good public transport.

Melanie: 47:02

Which is pretty much all of Europe. Yeah, yeah, and Europe is good. Europe is amazing, I agree, I agree.

Igar: 47:07

I agree. How is New Zealand not like this?

Jay: 47:10

No, we don't have. We have public transport, but it's not as it's awful.

Igar: 47:13

So cars, the same like.

Jay: 47:14

US, australia. Yeah, exactly, you've got to have your own car to get around, and yeah, yeah, it's not good, so we enjoy how good it is here.

Igar: 47:23

Yeah, and for you, melanie, what would be your pick?

Melanie: 47:27

I think I'm going to pick Croatia, but we just got to Poland and I'm really enjoying it. Okay, good, yeah, I think I'm even more interested, since my grandmother was born here, so it's been good, but you just got here.

Igar: 47:41

But you have Polish roots. You have Polish roots, don't you?

Melanie: 47:45

My grandmother was born here.

Igar: 47:46

yes, Do you know the city?

Melanie: 47:48

Warsaw.

Igar: 47:48

Warsaw okay, okay, okay, so you will go. Yes, we will go there yeah yeah, yeah, and well, maybe any other like advices you have in general for all wave travelers. You know, like I don't even know what kind of listeners I have, so young, old, any young old any, my only advice which you probably have heard a hundred times is like look, the time what you spend in travel is the best time you can.

Jay: 48:19

Right, do as much travel as you can, partly because work will come back, money will come back, but the time to not travel will never come back. Take every opportunity you can go Embrace other culture, be flexible. Travel would never come back. Take every opportunity you can go, embrace the culture, be flexible, listen more, talk less kind of thing.

Jay: 48:37

When you are overseas to see, don't judge people right, because they are how they are, based on what experiences they had. You know, that's pretty much it, I guess you know. And you don't have to spend top dollars to travel like uh, I think people have this fancy idea and nothing wrong with that, what melanie covered before where you have to stay in a fancy hotel, drink margarita every night and eat at fancy italian restaurants. Uh, you can do that. But if you do that, you can't do travel more often because you can only do so much, whereas what we tend to do is we tend to kind of let go of some of those comforts and things, but we like to travel more, you know, and we always say, well, we regret not doing this.

Melanie: 49:29

So if you're not sure about doing something, we always say better regret doing it than not doing it, because, say, you wanted to do something but you're not sure, getting all the way back there to do it in another year or two time is like so much more money and time. You may as well just do it and then be like that was terrible or it might be the best thing ever Don't ever regret it, because otherwise you're going to go home thinking I should have done that.

Melanie: 49:51

Otherwise, you're going to go home thinking I should have done that, and it's going to stay in your mind. So beautiful word as you say it's a very funny story.

Jay: 49:55

So that is something I learned when I was in antarctica. So, in antarctica, one of the night, they announced that, uh, we're going to give 50 people an opportunity to jump off the boat into the water freezing cold water of antarctica. And and, and I was sharing a cabin with this american guy and he, he said, are you going to do it? I said no way, I'm not going to kill myself, you know. And he told me the same thing, saying jay. And he said I said I'm going to regret it. What if I fall sick? I said, jay, believe me or not, you're going to regret it, no matter what.

Jay: 50:30

You might go into the water, come out and and fall sick and regret it. But if you don't do it, how often are you going to come to antarctica exactly? Will you ever get a chance to jump into the water? And he said, well, choose your regrets exactly. And I did it. And it was amazing, like so they, because this expedition board, so there was no graceful way to go in the water, come out of the water. So what they do is they tie you on a big rope and they throw you off the side and then they bring you out and then there are three people standing with bathrobes to cover you and a vodka straight into your mouth.

Jay: 51:06

That's the only way to top form you out and you cannot stay more than 30 seconds. If you have more than 30 seconds, you will probably die.

Melanie: 51:14

My other advice for travelers don't spend money you don't have.

Igar: 51:17

Right.

Melanie: 51:18

Some people have credit card holidays. If you save the money, then go.

Igar: 51:24

All right.

Melanie: 51:24

Otherwise I think it's going to add stress and you're going to come back and it's not good. I mean, someone might disagree with me, but I think save the money, then go, be serious about saving it. Put it somewhere separate if you need to.

Igar: 51:39

But then just spend nicely, like the way, how you have from perspective, yeah, of possibilities, right, yeah so, but credit card might get you. It's actually good approach. Yeah, yeah, yeah, nice cool guys. Many things really appreciate it. You know. High fives. Thank you so much. See you on the next episode, all of you.