Emily Djock, Trailblazing her own path!

How many years of hard work in the shadows does it take to become an overnight sensation? 

In this special bonus PUFfer episode I sit down with 2-time and reigning champion Emily Djock to find out more about what it takes to breakthrough to the top of the SA trail running world and the answers may surprise you...

From the pavements of Wisconsin to the scenic trails of Cape Town, South Africa Emily's journey has been marked by memorable moments and outstading and often surprising achievements! From her fourth-place finish at UTCT 65km in her debut ultra to racing in Italy and Mauritius and winning at MUT By UTMB in George Emily's resume of victories speaks for itself. 

But it's not all victories and memorable moments Emily opens up about the balance of maintaining personal performance with a full-time job, the struggle of self-promotion in a digital age and the lessons learnt from serious running injuries which Emily has overcome to maintain her winning streak and continue her ascent. 

Emily takes us through the often unseen path of what it takes to make it to the top, her transformative shift in strength training and stretching, offering practical advice and motivational tips, such as the advantages of early morning runs and run commuting, and the significance of working with a coach to optimize training routines. Emily’s passion and mental strategies for overcoming tough race moments are sure to resonate with and inspire all running enthusiasts.

Whether you're an aspiring trail runner or a seasoned athlete, this episode is packed with laughter, lessons, and inspiration that will resonate with all running enthusiasts. Tune in and let Emily's passion and mental strategies for overcoming tough race moments inspire your own running journey.

Transcript

00:00 - Dean (Host)
How's it, emily? Welcome to the Trail Chasers. So I've been wanting to have you on this podcast since the beginning and I think it was funny. It was obviously at Puffer last year youAn I saw you and I was like why does no one know about these people? And then, obviously, I've been following both of you and it's just still like why does no one know about these guys? I've really been interested and excited to have you on and find out how you keep winning races. So welcome and thanks for joining me. I always like to start these interviews with getting a little bit deep, so tell me in your own words who is Emily. 

00:41 - Emily (Guest)
That's a tough confronting question. That's a tough confronting question. I guess I'll start with the facts. I'm from the us, from the state of wisconsin, the dairy state. But I've been living in south africa, in cape town, for on and off, a couple like a couple different stints, but in total like over eight years. So cape town and south africa is really. I also know I'm not the first American you've spoken to on this podcast you had Erica on earlier. 

01:09
I grew up in Wisconsin, which is probably a state not a lot of people know a lot about, but really grew up with a focus on the outdoors and spending time in the outdoors, a lot of camping and time. Yeah, wisconsin has a lot of lakes and forests, so, yeah, I grew up really loving the outdoors. I studied environmental science so took that into as I grew older. I don't work in environmental science anymore, as typically happens, but yeah, that's, I think, like a big and important aspect or something important in my life, which obviously translates really well over to trail running. 

01:49 - Dean (Host)
Tell me what is the most embarrassing thing that's happened to you while out on a run. 

01:55 - Emily (Guest)
I'm sure so many runners have a shared embarrassing experience, but I'm not going to talk about that I was thinking about. I think I'm really I'm quite embarrassing or haven't really perfected my finish line routine yet. For instance, at Mutt I just assumed the champagne bottle they handed over is pre-shake. It's not, so shake the champagne bottle. I did a race last year in Italy and across the finish line and they were doing like a live stream. So the announcer came over and started speaking to me and asked where I was from, just right after crossing the finish line and like on such a high and I was like rambling about how Cape Town's home, but I'm from the US. It was a bit confusing. But then he asked where in the U. I said oh, I'm from near Chicago and he actually knew that. 

02:46
So he was like oh, Illinois, Great, Wonderful and I just walked away and then, a minute later I came back and I was like I'm sorry I really have to correct you Because if my parents knew I said I was from Illinois they'd be so upset. I'm from Wisconsin. I need to work on my finish line interviews and etiquette. Maybe a bit. 

03:06 - Dean (Host)
Amazing. Take me back to the beginning. How did you initially get into running? What was the catalyst or the inspiration? 

03:13 - Emily (Guest)
I grew up playing a lot of sports and pretty active. I ran cross country in high school but then took a break through my uni years and only got back into it again. I had just graduated with my master's and moved back to Cape Town. I was unemployed and on the job hunt and I found that going out for a run Cape Town is an inspiring place, I think to. Whether you're in road or trail, it's an inspiring place to be active outdoors. So it was one thing I could do that guaranteed that I felt I had to accomplish something and so got into it a little bit. Then I was over 10, like maybe 12 years ago or so. But then we moved to Amsterdam, got really into road running a little bit more and did my first road marathon in Amsterdam and in 2018, we moved back to Cape Town. 

04:08
I joined Atlantic Athletic Club right away. Yeah, I did the Two Oceans Ultra within a couple weeks of arriving back and was floored by the hills, because obviously there's no hill training in the netherlands. It was just a gradual progression from yeah, doing a bit of yeah, doing more road running once we moved back and then getting more into the trails, because how could you not, living in cape town? 

04:32 - Dean (Host)
yeah, and and how did that kind of start, that kind of progression from road to trails? 

04:40 - Emily (Guest)
I think it's yeah it was really gradual. 

04:43
It wasn't, and we started. I started doing a couple of the on the weekends they have those the short little runs in the winelands, gentle jeep tracks and stuff and really enjoyed that. I did quite a few of the wild runner trail series which I think are all like yeah, so well organized and super fun and a great sort of entry with the different distances that they offer. Yeah and it was. It was really there wasn't some sort of entry with the different distances that they offer. Yeah and it was. It was really there wasn't some sort of. It took a couple years to really build up to doing ultras and I know I talk, I hear some people now I think a lot of people's stories is they got really into it during COVID and immediately jumped into big distances and stuff, but mine was, I think, really very gradual. 

05:25 - Dean (Host)
Yeah and tell me like, when did you start taking it a little bit more seriously? When was it like the light bulb moment? Oh, I'm actually not too bad at this thing. 

05:36 - Emily (Guest)
I think there's been like maybe a couple light bulb moments along the way, but they well. Actually, in taking it a little bit further back, I the first sort of proper ultra that I did was UTCT 65K back when they had that, so that was, I think, 2019. And I obviously, anytime you go the furthest distance you've ever gone, you have no idea what to expect, but I loved it and I actually came fourth and like really surprising myself, yeah. 

06:09
And so then, yeah, and I thought, oh, I love this. And then, looking ahead to 2020, oh, I'd love to do more of this, and even at the time thought like maybe UTCT 100K in 2020. And then we all know what happened. 

06:25 - Dean (Host)
Yeah. 

06:26 - Emily (Guest)
I think yeah. So I think that was a bit of a break both in everyone's, not just races and events, but I think people trained differently. There was a period where we couldn't do anything. So then it was only maybe 2021 then, and that was like a bit of a turning point year, entering a few longer distance races and the first time, yeah, with consistent results, which was yeah, like a bit of a yeah, I guess, another light bulb moment, but it definitely. 

07:04
I've already talked about several light bulb moments, but it was definitely last year that it was, yeah, really the like a big year for me where I started thinking, yeah, that maybe it had to, yeah, put more into it and see what I can get out. And that's when I started reaching out to also some sponsors and, yeah, just myself started taking it more seriously. 

07:29 - Dean (Host)
Sure, and it's obviously not a full-time thing for you. Is that also a consideration? You go well, you want to go into it full-time, or is it like you still love what you do and you want to keep it as like a part-time thing? 

07:42 - Emily (Guest)
I yeah, I definitely can't quit my day job yet, but if ever some opportunity presented itself, I think so many of us would want to go for it. But I also I like not having too much pressure on it now and I've already felt that I think I am so far I've felt okay handling what feels like a bit of additional pressure this year. But, yeah, I love that it's this big part of my life, but not my whole life like yeah, right now and I can imagine that. 

08:15 - Dean (Host)
If it's yeah, if that's what you're really doing for for any professional athlete, that's I can hardly imagine it, but that's yeah, I'm quite happy where it's at the moment and, thinking back, was there like one thing, that about trail running, that you were just like this is amazing. Or was it just like the entire kind of experience? 

08:36 - Emily (Guest)
Yeah, I think it's well it's. Yeah, definitely the whole experience. I was already enjoying running and found running as an important, becoming an important part of my life, but then combining that with just being out in nature is such the draw. And living in a city like Cape Town, which I think is so exceptionally unique in that, depending where you are in Cape Town, you can have amazing access to the mountain and to the trails, and we live right in town, so I'm like five minutes from Deer Park and just like that quality of life that you can be on a trail or in the mountain before after work is is quite unique and and special and I think it yeah, it just adds a lot of richness yeah, and tell me what do you do. 

09:30 - Dean (Host)
We did chat a bit about the part-time thing. What do you do when you're not running? 

09:36 - Emily (Guest)
yeah, I always think I'm like, because I'm always thinking about like, adding, like, trying to find another passion alongside running yeah. 

09:45
For instance, if you, if I was injured or something and I can't like and it just feels I worry. Sometimes I'm like so one dimensional that running is what I do in my spare time. But but yeah, and if it's not, if it's not running, then just being outdoors I really love, like walking my dog or going camping with friends. Cape Town or Cape South Africa is such an outdoor playground. That's a really important part of mine and my husband's life. We both love the outdoors. So yeah, there's that. 

10:15
And then I like reading and and work-wise so, work-wise, I work for a German software company. Oh wow, but I do. Yeah. I guess where I've been able to apply a little bit of my education is that I do like trend and technology research for companies. So looking at yeah, it could entail looking at trends in sustainability and emerging technologies, trends in sustainability and emerging technologies. It's actually a company based in Germany, but they just opened an office in Cape Town three and a half years ago and we've now grown to 20 people, so it's quite a nice. I feel really fortunate to have also a job that affords me the flexibility to also do things I love, like running, running. 

11:05 - Dean (Host)
I started the podcast with kind of saying so surprised that not a lot of people know about you and I guess it's like an insult, but it's. It's quite amazing how because I think especially within the trail running kind of community, as soon as someone starts like winning races and things like that, they're suddenly like the next big thing and how do you think that you've stayed like under the radar for so long? 

11:28 - Emily (Guest)
I was thinking about that and for a while, when I yeah, like I think last year, when I, like I said, I started thinking about maybe I'd like to try to get a sponsor, and I kept thinking after each race and I'd have a really good result I was like I wonder if someone will reach out to me. Well, and the one thing is I guess that's a separate issue is, I think I what I learned is that it's not about that. You also, you actually have to be the one to reach out, or at least in my experience. But I wondered for a while if it was because on race results that I showed up as from the US. 

12:06 - Dean (Host)
And so people maybe thought I was just visiting. 

12:09 - Emily (Guest)
But that's a hypothesis. I think the other thing, though, is that I wasn't maybe as immersed in the trail community for a while, because I did a lot of my training alone just to fit my schedule and stuff, and, yeah, it just wasn't, I mean, maybe as good at putting myself out there, because I think the Cape Town Trail community there's so many ways to get involved and so welcoming, and I think it was really last year that that's something that I started doing more of. 

12:42
That's something that I started doing more of, and yeah, and like getting to know more faces and making deeper friendships within, amongst other, trail runners. I think that's been a big part of it too. 

13:00 - Dean (Host)
And talk to me about the sort of pros and cons of that, obviously in terms of the pressure side of it. Do you feel that there's less pressure because you're not as well known as some of your sort of competitors? 

13:07 - Emily (Guest)
Yeah, maybe I've definitely found that with improving result, I definitely feel more pressure with each race lining up, but it's pressure that I put on myself and I think a lot of us do that. It's all pressure like pressure we put on ourselves, not other people's expectations or anything. But yeah, like I definitely. I guess the thing is too, once you start to know people and you're lining up, you also have an idea where you might fall within in the mix too, of like, especially once you start training with people and people's names and stuff, and but yeah, I wouldn't say that adds more pressure. I think it's been so nice, as I said, like, yeah, like, with be feeling like I really have become a bit more of the trail riding community, to stand on the start line and know, familiar faces, and that's added so much richness to my experience. 

14:09 - Dean (Host)
Yeah, it's such a community driven thing that it's. It's. It's amazing that it adds that like kind of dimension to the experience. And you mentioned kind of social media and talk to me a bit about that. Obviously, it's also part of the process of becoming known and becoming popular and things like that. What it's also part of the process of becoming known and becoming popular and things like that. What is your kind of relationship with it and how is that kind of evolving? 

14:31 - Emily (Guest)
Yeah, so I'm not the savviest of social media people. 

14:36 - Dean (Host)
I think I didn't want to say it in that way. I tried to say it nicely. 

14:41 - Emily (Guest)
Oh no, you noticed I last year, let's say, revived my social media account after maybe three or four years of being dormant. So for the purposes of trail running, because I also know with like sponsorship, that's part of the- deal. 

14:58
And yeah, and so it's not something that necessarily comes naturally to me and I remember maybe a bit embarrassing, but like even the first couple of times I started posting again, it takes me a really long time to write a post and like draft it in like a Google Doc. First that's so embarrassing and then I will, but the first couple of times when I would push post, my heart would like race times. When I would push post, my heart would like race. Yeah, it's just, it's, I'm not. Yeah, like putting my it. 

15:28 - Dean (Host)
Yeah, it feels vulnerable. 

15:29 - Emily (Guest)
I think for me to be putting yourself out there and then. But I also, on the other hand, was like I just realizing or telling myself that actually no one's, no one cares that much. Like it's like I need to get over myself, no one's like scrutinizing what I do on social media. 

15:45 - Dean (Host)
So it's not, doesn't really? 

15:46 - Emily (Guest)
matter and there's there is a community to be found on social media as well, and especially amongst our Cape town trail community. Everyone's incredibly supportive. These are the messages that I get from people that I hardly know, or like acquaintances, or people that I just know their names and I haven't even met in person, like the really thoughtful messages of encouragement or congratulations. That's really been like quite a really nice aspect, actually. 

16:16 - Dean (Host)
Amazing. You said you're not so savvy and maybe you don't feel as comfortable. And how does that kind of feel in terms of that? You have to do it, but it doesn't come naturally to you. 

16:26 - Emily (Guest)
Yeah, I try to. I almost want to set a quota for myself of being like that I need to do like X posts a month or something, or that makes it a bit, even though then it maybe for some people that would feel like it becomes this chore. I don't know it just would be easy for me to do nothing. I almost need to schedule in or something because it, like I said, it doesn't come naturally to me, or I think the thing is for me too. This is authenticity is like. 

17:02
I don't want to just post something and have just a generic line that I attached to an image or something that sounds like AI could write it and I think that's a lot of that is too like in my work. 

17:15
I also do a lot of. I do some like content marketing and obviously, as any content creator knows, with the rise of AI tools which are great and I use them all the time I think there's the risk of also just it cheapening content, and so that's so like. Authenticity is quite important to me, and that's why I think a lot of like my social media posts end up being these really long stories and stuff which I don't know if anyone's reading them. 

17:43
But it's just. I don't know any other way but to be like authentic with it yeah, it does take a bit of figuring out and finding out. 

17:52 - Dean (Host)
You've got to keep pushing through and I guess that kind of leans in nicely into the North Face sponsorship. And talk to me a bit about how did that come about? What does it involve? 

18:09 - Emily (Guest)
What does it mean for your running? Yeah, I touched on it a little bit that last year I started reaching out to some potential sponsors and I just I didn't really know how to navigate this world. Would you ask for, are you meant to ask for anything? And so I had contacted a couple brands that I really liked and I like what they stand for and I know and I believe that their gear is really stand out. And obviously I know north face, but I didn't really know it from necessarily trail running or I hadn't had any of their trail shoes in the past or anything but like a big fan of north face as a brand and and obviously seeing the sort of like increasing influence that north face is having in trail running, especially like overseas, like in Europe and the US. 

18:57
And so I reached out to them and I asked if I could try out a pair of shoes. Actually, and they were really generous and gave me a pair to try and I really loved them. And then it was, and that was end of towards the end of last year, and then I but I didn't really know, yeah, again, how to? What's the next step? 

19:14
and yeah, yeah, yeah so I wasn't really sure what was gonna, what was happening. And then it was after, in the beginning of March, with pass to pass after that, and yeah, I had another good result and they reached out to me and yeah, and offered me like a sponsorship for the year which is, yeah, really amazing and even it's just, it's such an iconic brand and it's just so amazing to represent them. 

19:45
And even like friends from back home from in Wisconsin who also don't really know, maybe didn't realize how much I was getting into trail running and stuff saw this post that sponsored by north face and they're like what the heck is going on, yeah, yeah, who are you? 

20:02
and yeah, what? And it feels like that too. I'm also like what? I can't believe it, but it's been. Yeah, it's a yeah, it's a small team that I've dealt with, but they're all amazing. And the other athletes that they sponsor, it's really. I mean, I don't know the exact number of us, but there's not like heaps of us, and those who are sponsored is like the ones I've met. Yeah, really great. 

20:27
I felt so lucky to get to spend almost a week with Mvuyisi in Mauritius A couple weeks ago. He's also sponsored by North Face as of this year, so that was my first time. I obviously knew his name, but the first time getting to meet him in person and that felt so special, like getting to be there, like feeling like we're teammates and, yeah, getting to spend that time with him and get to know him. And I think it also, just as we know, like trial learning gear is quite expensive, so I think it just it makes it, yeah, like it creates a lot of additional opportunities. I feel for me is like that side is taken care of and I really like really love the gear and trust the gear. 

21:11
And then I can, yeah, focus on other things. Unfortunately, this year has been, I've had a couple, a few injuries, and so I, if it wasn't for this sponsorship yeah, like just the additional costs of injury seeing a physio, biokineticist and stuff like that would have been more difficult, and so that's so I'm really very appreciative of this opportunity yeah, amazing. 

21:39 - Dean (Host)
And is it based? Is it like an incentive based type thing or is it? Yeah, how does it work in terms of your races and things like that? 

21:48 - Emily (Guest)
yeah, so they also cover race entries, which is another thing. That's amazing Because I know each from what I've been speaking with other athletes in South Africa who are sponsored. I think each brand works a little bit differently. So I feel really, again, really fortunate that it's not just the gear and also gear like I mean, if I need a new pair of shoes, they're not like holding back on shoes, because all of us who are running this much, we're going through shoes a lot, and that's amazing. And then race entries, because trail running, those entry fees are quite expensive. So that's open. Yeah, again, that's just opened up so many opportunities. I feel like for me for the year, because I in the past was always, or the last couple of years, was never really planning very far forward because I was like holding off on 5,000 Rand entry and thinking about. 

22:49
Oh, maybe I could try to reach out to the race organizers and see and waiting for if there was a possibility of opportunities to come to me. But now I can plan ahead a bit better and that's really made a difference. 

23:05 - Dean (Host)
That's yeah. It's so incredible, like when someone who's talented gets an opportunity because it's well-deserved. Someone who's talented gets an opportunity because it's well-deserved. And talk to me a bit about you've. Obviously, I tried to look at the races you've won and it was just like five pages on Google. Talk to me a bit about those races. Have there been ones that kind? 

23:28 - Emily (Guest)
of stood out and have been quite memorable for you. Yeah, it's hard to pick just one, but yeah, I guess some of the standout ones have been I've only done two times 100 kilometer races I did Ultra Trail, drakensberg and this race in Italy last year, ultra Trail Lake Orto and those definitely stand out because that's the longest distance I've ever ran and it's definitely, whereas I think otherwise a lot of my races are around the 50 to 60 kilometer distance. And yeah, 100 kilometer race is just such a different experience and I really love it and would really actually like to do like more of that distance and I think there's a lot of chances to improve in that distance. But those two definitely stand out and especially Drakensberg. That was the first time and last year and it was like exceptionally special because my parents from the US were visiting, it was their first time to South Africa and we went out to the Drakensberg together and they yeah, and so they got to come along to some of the checkpoints and see me finish and I think that was that was, yeah, really memorable. 

24:49
But yeah, this year there's been like the races I've done have been pretty standout too, just because of getting to represent North Face, especially at Mutt 60 and at this Dodo trail in Mauritius. Those are the two big ones getting to represent North Face for the first time. So those have been both, like, very special, and also both of them came off the back of returning to running after injury. Yeah, for those reasons, those races and experiences and crossing the finish line of those two races definitely stand out as well. But OK, and last one, puffer also holds a very special place in my heart. 

25:36
I've just done it the two previous years, but I love it. I love how, yeah, it just has this really long history. 

25:45
Obviously, it's the 30th year this year and it just feels like a community within the community and, yeah, I think it's's very quirky, like you, and it's unmarked and you have these shortcuts, and it feels almost like this, even though I think it like each year it's in the two years I've done it, but this year is shaping up to be as well like looking a bit more competitive and but I think and what changes I've keeping its heart very much of what everyone wants the puffer to remain at its core, but a lot of things are becoming a bit professionalized, or that it's becoming a bit more competitive, and everything that you guys have done around it, with community building around it, I think are really great improvements, while it keeps its heart, which is really nice, yeah. 

26:40 - Dean (Host)
Now it's also like last year was also my first time being involved and it's like really a unique kind of special special race. And talk to me a bit about the kind of the injury, like what happened this year, was it after pass to pass, and how do you deal with that? 

26:57 - Emily (Guest)
Yeah, so I feel like I have. It's just like the most cliched story ever. It's like never really struggled with injury but also never did any sort of like strength training or basically didn't even stretch, warm up before runs and like all the things you're not like that you're supposed to do, and then it was actually at pass to pass I, because it was they had. 

27:25
They had to change the course within the day before or something. This isn't why, but it just what ended up happening, I think, is that the new course that they, amazingly, were able to pull off with such little notice was a lot faster and my own fault yeah. And it was hot that day. I think I went out fast and I ended up like only realizing this later, but I tore my hamstring, or like partially tore my hamstring during the race and I thought it was like a cramp most of the way and then and then, and. 

28:04
But yeah, finished fine and was good, and then went for a run a couple days later and then heard a pop and I was like oh geez so I got an MRI and it was, yeah, so it was a partial hamstring tear. But also what that kind of brought to the surface a little bit was this like chondromalacia it's a basically it's yeah, in my knee it's like a just a deterioration of your cartilage. 

28:33
I think it's one of the things I call runner's knee, and so I actually had to withdraw, or I didn't. I was meant to start to do the ulcerative rockensberg 62k, but I had to. 

28:47
Yeah, I withdraw from that one and started working with the physio and biokineticist all this stuff for the first time doing well, first sort of rehab and then strength, and so that's yeah. And that's why mutt was so special actually, because in quite a like quick turnaround that was my sort of first race back, also the first race with north face. So it was just like I'm going to say I thought I would have been more nervous but I just I was. Yeah, I felt really like I knew I had done everything that I could to get to that, get healthy for that start line, and it had gone fairly well. But it just obviously that just some apprehension of how my knee and hamstring would hold up over that distance. 

29:34 - Dean (Host)
But it was good, yeah, yeah and and what kind of lessons have you learned from that in terms of the sort of strength and conditioning and things like that? 

29:47 - Emily (Guest)
yeah. So I don't know if I can't remember, if this is something someone around me said, but that. So sorry if I'm like not crediting someone, but like that strength training and stretching is basically like flossing your teeth, it's like running hygiene that you have to do and everyone is like it's easy to put off and yeah, I just. But it's such a classic story that, yeah, runners don't do it as much as they should until an injury comes, and and so, yeah, I've definitely. But it was a great perspective shift, I think, too, working with Hein Wilhelm the physio, who is great and he was. 

30:30
And, yeah, early on we were talking about, yeah, my decision to not do ultra of drakensberg, and I was like, yeah, I wouldn't want to sabotage the rest of the year for one race. It's not even about the rest of the year. Do you want to be running for years to come? Like it's about longevity, and that was a real good perspective shift for me. I too, is it's not about race results now and stuff, like it's. That's the short term perspective. I want to have a healthy body, to be able to run and move my body until I'm a grandmaster. I think doing that running hygiene is, yeah, is definitely going to be a more important regular part of my training, although I've admittedly been a slack on it while being over here in the netherlands. 

31:23 - Dean (Host)
But yeah, definitely important and talk to me a bit about training. Have you always you just trained yourself, or is there any kind of sort of things that you've worked on or stuck to or things like that to make get those? 

31:40 - Emily (Guest)
yeah, so I've been. I've not worked with a coach in the past until this year and I must say, yeah, obviously something right was working. But I definitely have had the mentality in the past where it's just that it's about like kilometers per week. So I had in my in any given week I had a lot of what people would call it junk miles. I just go over a run. 

32:04
Yeah, and since working with a coach, that's also been a bit a good perspective shift. Like that. It's not just about. It's not about like your total kilometers per week and trying to look impressive on Strava or something that yeah, that quality of session too, and so it's been rather like what I would have done myself. As opposed to now, it's probably less total volume, but, yeah, definitely just a higher quality of sessions and dedicated like with intention behind them and yeah. 

32:42
I think this is such a classic story too, but that people realize once they start working with the coach. 

32:47
But I've also found that I because it's maybe a lower volume and intentional rest days or maybe a few more rest days than I would have normally taken that I feel more energy in a given session as well, which is nice. It's a great feeling. So, yeah, it's this sort of I guess it's. I was just thinking about this after much too, because it just it was. I had only been working with a coach for one month then and it was like I'm so happy with my results and obviously there's a couple of factors at play with any race, but that it just was like it came into my mind this idea of trust the process, that, even though, like, maybe at first it felt a little bit out of what was ordinary for me to do fewer kilometers, that's it. Wait, something worked. So, yeah, trust the process. 

33:48 - Dean (Host)
Yeah, I love that. That's brilliant and what you know? How do you kind of balance your whole life, work, running, family time, all of that? Is there a sort of secret formula or is it just I try? 

34:03 - Emily (Guest)
Yeah, I have been. I think what's actually been really good is because I've been running with people more. What that has meant just I guess maybe the groups I'm running with is like very early runs, I yeah, which is good, because there is something about like getting a run out of the way and you're done with your run by 7 am and you have the whole rest of the day and I can like normal work day and then spend time with friends and family when those events come up. But so that's been a good, that's been good. Good, that's been good. 

34:47 - Dean (Host)
but the other thing that I'm like, especially in the past, what I would do a lot of is I call it run commuting, so I would often like run to. 

34:52 - Emily (Guest)
I live like two kilometers from work but I would run to work like via the mountain or I would and then shower at work, or I would run home, or a friend was having a braai somewhere, I would run to there. So fitting I mean fitting running in where I could. Yeah, maybe that's shifted a little bit now, as I said, adding a bit more intention and purpose to each run. It's like that now I schedule it in a little bit better of being like, okay, I'm actually going to wake up at five and run which is also good but. I'm a big fan of the run commuting. 

35:32 - Dean (Host)
I think it's yeah, that's very cool. It's a cool philosophy. And how do you keep yourself motivated in running and I guess in life as well? Is there something that kind of keeps you motivated? 

35:44 - Emily (Guest)
I don't know, I think, like a lot, so many of us with trail running, it's like whatever this intrinsic motivation is, it's, it's almost, and I was thinking about I was talking to someone about this recently too is, I think, for a lot of people also running who are maybe running at a competitive level also with, as I said, with working with a coach. It's not about someone holding you necessarily accountable that you ran today, that or that. 

36:15
You need the motivation because we want to be out there, left to my own devices. I'd run every day if I was healthy. I just know that it's just something I love, so I've never really struggled too much with the motivation to go get out there, although I do think you guys in the last couple weeks in cape town with the weather probably needed a lot of motivation to get out there. 

36:38 - Dean (Host)
Yeah yeah, road run is definitely trail runners not so much. It's so much fun out there in this weather. Talk to me a bit about during races or during runs, when you get to a wall or things get tough. What is the kind of thinking and the thought process that kind of gets you through that? 

36:55 - Emily (Guest)
there's a lot of people say the same thing. 

36:57
I think too, is that you, it's this mentality of just one foot in front of the other and moving forward, even if it's a, even if you're going so slowly, it's still, you're still moving forward. And and that's a lot of like ultra runners also talk about like how it they will go through, like highs and lows, and like it will pass and stuff. And I don't know if I've that's not true. Maybe sometimes, when it's been really hard for me in a race, like I'm waiting, I'm thinking about that and like, oh, maybe this will pass and then I'll have some big burst of energy and I've never really found that per se like all of a sudden, like 75 kilometers, you're gonna be like, oh, I feel great again. It's not been my experience, but I guess it's. It's I, and maybe this is what people mean is actually it's not necessarily physically, but it's mentally, the ebbs and flows, and that you, your body is still gonna hurt a lot, but've your mind has gone through the ups and downs and then and you're just you feel ready to push. 

38:06
You've stopped at an aid station and an amazing volunteer has helped you out and you feel a burst of energy from that. Or you, someone passes you and cheers you on, or a spectator or something, and so it's. But yeah, that's why I really love the longer distances too, because there's just you live so many lives out there, like any like so much can happen and unfold and there's. 

38:31
Yeah, I actually with the shorter distances like for me something like 20 kilometers or shorter those races make me a lot more nervous because it feels like there's no room for error. Yeah, like full out from start to finish. And whereas in an ultra I'd be nervous because just you're going to be up there for hours, anything can happen. 

38:56 - Dean (Host)
Yeah, it's so true, those short distances you're like, as soon as something happens in a short distance race, you're like going home, there's no point anymore. If someone came to you and said they wanted some advice, they wanted to start running, what would you say to them? 

39:10 - Emily (Guest)
Yeah, I guess a lot of the I don't know if I have anything like novel in terms of advice to say, but I think everyone would be like start slow. I think joining a group I mean you talked about motivation before I think joining a group is actually a great source of motivation for people Also. I just I do think, especially when it comes to trails, like people are a bit nervous. Either it's because they don't know the mountain or the safety aspect. So I think joining, like getting started by joining a group, whether it's for that just accountability or the safety or the motivation, I think it's a great way to get into it, learn some of the trails, and but yeah, and then I guess the other thing I would say is I think there's this, I think South Africa has this. 

39:58
Maybe it's everywhere, but I've found, but most of my running life is in South Africa. So what I've found is that both road and trail, there's immediately an emphasis on going longer, and I'm I do it too. I'm interested in longer distances. But I think there's this. I think, right when I joined um aac also, everyone's doing comrades and yeah, and I think there's yeah, especially for someone starting out, there might be this. They might believe that progress means you have to go further and keep pushing the distance, but I think it's good to emphasize that's not true. You can just be like. You can just be like smoking fast at a 10k or a 5k or a 20k and specialize in that. 

40:46 - Dean (Host)
It doesn't like yeah, becoming better doesn't mean you have to go longer and if you could go back to yourself, a younger version of yourself, when you first started running, what would you say to yourself? 

41:00 - Emily (Guest)
I'd say don't neglect flossing, just stretch and strength train your body and then your younger self would be like no thanks, I'm leaving this conversation yeah 

41:15
I also sometimes wish that I'm in my mid-30s now. And just the reality of the sport too. Someone told me the other day they're like you've got five good years left yeah, yeah I, so I sometimes wish that I would have gotten into it, or gotten more serious about it, younger, just because you'd have so many years to explore this, the competitive side. But but I have no regrets. And but if I were to tell my younger self something, I might be like don't wait to start moving your body sooner. 

41:51 - Dean (Host)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that's a great one, and talk to me about. We chatted about puffer. What else is on the plan for the year and what goals do you still have short, medium, long term in terms of the running? 

42:05 - Emily (Guest)
yeah, as you said. Yeah, next up is puffer and really looking forward to that because I think this year is going to be amazing and the team aspect is very cool, so can't wait for that. But I yeah, I actually only arrived back in cape town from the netherlands like a week before the race, so I won't have any hill training, but yeah, that's okay. 

42:28
Muscle memory yeah, but after Puffer I don't really have anything on the calendar until UTCT 100 kilometer that'll be one for me this year and yeah, I actually haven't done a utc, a utct race since that 65k in, oh wow okay yeah, I was always on the fence with entering and then didn't, and then suffered extreme mofo yeah yeah, and I volunteered last year, which was nice to get involved, but I'm super excited to actually be a part of it as a runner this year. 

43:06
So, yeah, so a lot of focus will go into that one. And then, yeah, I really love racing. I yeah, we'll maybe look for another race between puffer and utct, okay, but that's it. Yeah, but I don't know. Yeah, and then, long term, yes, yeah. 

43:27
Yeah, as I said. So UTCT will be my third 100 kilometer race. Yeah, and probably the toughest, just because of how technical our mountain is. Yeah, so we'll see how that goes. But yeah, as I said, I really in what experience I do have with that distance, I really have enjoyed it and I think there's some room for improvement and I'd like to improve and and get better at that distance. I think it's a challenge with that distance, or more people who do milers basically, you can only do so many in a year and there's only so many opportunities throughout the year to do them, so I think you need to be really strategic about it. 

44:04
but but yeah, I have an entry for occ for next year off of mutt and I haven't actually looked into it, but if I might look into the possibility, if you can upgrade okay if I could do ccc, because also the effort of going all the way over there, I feel like it'd be worth it. 

44:28 - Dean (Host)
That would be a real dream to get to do. 

44:31 - Emily (Guest)
To get to do anything at UTMB is a dream, and then, yeah, definitely CCC would be the one that I would have my eye on. 

44:39 - Dean (Host)
But we'll see. Yeah, and in terms of American races, is there an? 

44:48 - Emily (Guest)
appeal to go back and do those. Actually, yeah, I haven't done besides like my cross-country days doing three kilometer races around Wisconsin. Yeah, I haven't done any races in the US and yeah, I definitely would like to, and I really love combining travel and races because I think it's just so cool. 

45:06
I haven't done it much. I did this race in Italy last year and I did Dodo in Mauritius last week and I just did a very local, low-key race here in the Netherlands and it's just, I find it really cool to get to experience the trail community in a different place and also obviously just the competition that you might get in the US and in Europe. Like I'd love to test myself against that. So yeah, next year I probably would keep an eye out for an opportunity to race in the US. It would be really cool to have sort have friends and family from back there get to join and spectate. And never have I really been interested in a 100-miler because it just seems unfathomable to me. But I must say after Western States, this year was the first time I actually was like Googling how to enter Western States lottery. 

46:02 - Dean (Host)
Yeah, yeah. 

46:03 - Emily (Guest)
Yeah, pretty iconic. 

46:08 - Dean (Host)
Amazing. Yeah, thank you very much. I'm I'm very excited about Puffer. I think it's going to be a great day out. I would say good luck with your training. But yeah, it's going to be. It's going to be difficult. Maybe there's like a what, those stairmaster things you can try and climb on. Thanks so much for making time and we'll see you in a month. 

46:28 - Emily (Guest)
Thanks, Dean, Cool yeah looking forward to it. Thanks so much. Nice talking to you. Bye, cheers, bye.