Zina Wilde on How to Embrace Financial Risks with Creative Courage in Filmmaking

Curious how self-funding can elevate your indie film? Find out in our Season Two finale of the Indiewood Podcast, where we sit down with the versatile Zina Wilde—actor, producer, writer, and master networker. Zina shares her rollercoaster journey of financing indie films, revealing the emotional and financial risks she's embraced to bring her projects to life. Inspired by the trailblazing Duplass Brothers, we uncover how personal investment can break the creative shackles, fostering an environment where originality thrives. Zina emphasizes the critical role of a supportive team and like-minded financiers in transforming artistic dreams into reality, while navigating the tightrope between financial risk and artistic integrity.

Prepare to be enlightened on the ins and outs of low-budget filmmaking as we draw wisdom from icons like John Cassavetes. Zina divulges clever strategies for staying frugal while maximizing creativity—think micro-budgets, smart allocations, and resourceful hacks. Learn how she’s turned seemingly impossible challenges into unique opportunities, such as securing unconventional filming locations and creative funding methods. From leveraging community resources to using platforms like Kickstarter, we spotlight methods to manage finances prudently, avoid debt, and build a sustainable career. Whether you're a newbie or a seasoned indie filmmaker, this episode is brimming with actionable insights and inspiring anecdotes that could be the game-changer you need.

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A Podcast for Indie Filmmakers

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IG: @indiewoodpod
YT: Cinematography for Actors

In the world of social media, and fast-paced journalism, knowledge is abound. But with all the noise, finding the right information is near impossible. Especially if you’re a creative working in independent film.

Produced by Cinematography For Actors, the Indiewood podcast aims to fix that. This is a podcast about indie filmmakers and the many hats we wear in order to solve problems before, during, and after production.

Every month, award-winning Writer/Director Yaroslav Altunin is joined by a different guest co-host to swap hats, learn about the different aspects of the film industry, and how to implement all you learn into your work.

"We learn from indie filmmakers so we can become better filmmakers. Because we all want to be Hollywood, but first we have to be Indiewood."

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:30

welcome back to the indie wood podcast, where we talk about how to make better indie films, because to make better indie films you have to wear many hats, and this is a podcast about those many hats. This is episode four, the last episode of season two, and my guest is dina wilde. Actor, producer, networker writer writer thank you.

Speaker 1: 0:51

Oh my god, I was like there's one more. We've been talking about a whole lot of hats, a whole lot of interesting things, and now let's talk about money. Do you have some money for me for this podcast wish?

Speaker 3: 1:05

that'd be great. Well, specifically, we have money. It's like the law of attraction yeah, there we go.

Speaker 1: 1:11

Attract the money through the ether. Um mostly about how to find money for your project and I have some experiences to share and then some hot takes, and then you do too. So this film, this recent film that you've done that we've been talking about um on the pod uh, for this season you wrote, you have a director for it, you brought your team in um, the team that we talked about in episode two, uh, and then you're funding this whole thing out of pocket. Yes, and you know what?

Speaker 3: 1:42

Good. I have many thoughts on this and I've been back and forth about this many times.

Speaker 1: 1:49

It's scary, it's very scary yeah because there's a lot more risk involved.

Speaker 3: 1:53

Huge risk.

Speaker 1: 1:54

When it's not your money like cool, you can screw up and then it could fail and then you could not get into festivals. It's like cool, it's not my money, I'm not out of pocket. But when it's your money, there's a lot more fear and, I think, self-doubt and self-deprecation. At the end, if it doesn't succeed, you're like oh, I'm a bad artist, so that's not true no, and to me I think I started.

Speaker 3: 2:16

Um, you know, everyone always says don't put your own money into it, blah, blah, blah. But my filmmaking heroes all put their money right into their projects.

Speaker 3: 2:27

So I was like, well, these are the people that I am attracted to, so I'm gonna do what they did. So I started thinking like wait, everyone keeps saying don't put your own money. But then I was like, okay, well, my favorite people, my favorite filmmakers, are people that they're like no scratch that, like you should put your own money. And it was when uh, I think it was literally after reading also a Duplass Brothers book and they were like we made this Is John for $5. And that's what started their career.

Speaker 3: 3:09

And now they're who they are and they're amazing, and to me, I truly think of them as my model.

Speaker 1: 3:16

Yeah, and granted, like you know, thinking of a Duplass film and was, this Is John where he was leaving the voicemail. Yeah, and then I think the the big comfy chair was like a grand it was.

Speaker 1: 3:27

Yeah, I I'm butchering the title, so many titles to think about and to remember. But you know there's a distinct style like you can't, do you know? Uh, a sci-fi in that kind of style, you know what? Yeah, you can I. I take that back immediately whenever I think of the duplass brothers. There's always in that kind of style, you know. Yeah, you can I take that back immediately whenever I think of the Duplass brothers. There's always a unique kind of approach to filmmaking that feels very, not just DIY but like visceral.

Speaker 3: 3:51

You know it's the reason why I love them is because they truly, truly for me. Check all the marks that. I've been seeing throughout this whole time like it's personal.

Speaker 2: 4:00

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 3: 4:01

It's Dangerous because it's personal it's uh dangerous because it's personal, it's simple in some ways yeah and it's uh, it doesn't try to be too clever. So I love those attributes because I think that they are so human and people are so scared to do that yeah and what they write in this book, is it really spoke to me?

Speaker 1: 4:24

because they're like and the duplass yeah, the book. They were like, what's the book?

Speaker 3: 4:27

called uh god, I forget, it was like it's both of them writing it too so I think that's the only one that they've written together. It's the last one. It was maybe four years ago or something that came out and, uh, they were writing about this thing that they were like we were, and maybe I've heard them say that in podcasts.

Speaker 1: 4:47

Yeah, I mean, that's their kind of thing is like we made a movie for a thousand dollars.

Speaker 3: 4:50

Yeah, so can you, but then apart from that was that when, after this is john, they got hired, they got, you know, all these fancy agents and this and that, and then, uh, that year was the first year that they didn't make anything and they were like, they went back to their people and they were like what the fuck is going? On like we haven't made anything. It's the first time we haven't made anything and it's we're the darlings and it was because everyone wanted that they were giving them funding or whatever.

Speaker 3: 5:23

They wanted to do things their way, and they were like you, either will give us the money and you'll let us do it, because this is what we do and this is how we can do it, or we're not the people for you, because we don't know how to make movies like that.

Speaker 1: 5:38

So then we went back. Just to add this is an interesting kind of connection to episode two of our pod, where we talked about finding your team. There's also something about finding members of your team that are funding your films. And I have a friend who's working with a director and an actor and they're making a movie and they've just finished the script and the director's like cool, I'm going to go talk to my finance team and it's not like oh, oh, he has, you know, a, an accountant in his office and you know like they're literally just people with money who fund his films yeah and and that is, they're the executive producing team of that thing, and and it might be harder to find those folks for you if you're doing like short films, maybe not.

Speaker 1: 6:18

I know some people just want to give you money to make movies that that can happen, but like going back to what they were saying.

Speaker 3: 6:23

that became my model also, that I was like okay, this is, I think, the way is. They went back to their teams, to their team and they were like they do flash brothers yes. We make movies, not meetings.

Speaker 1: 6:35

Yeah, goodbye, you're fired. Well, maybe not fired, I don't know what they did about that, but I think it's really important.

Speaker 3: 6:43

I was like it's true, you can talk about things until you're blue in the face and you don't do anything, and the most important thing is that you actually end up making something. So to me, that became the thing because and John Cassavetes is another great example he put his own money in his movies and he's another one of my favorite filmmakers and he made like epic movies that they're classic. But I think that, if so, what it again, though it's like okay. So how do you do that? How do you put your own money and how many movies can you do that for? So I think that the enabling of this is to, instead of try to make a movie for a short film for $50,000, be smart about it. Try to cut down in other ways and make it for $5,000. Make it for $9,000. Make it for $10, dollars and save to do that and then put in all. That's how what I do.

Speaker 3: 7:44

I mean I'm also very frugal and I'm very like, just not your couch money. Yeah, I, I don't I'm not like yeah, whatever, it's okay, who cares? But and it was gradual it started from making a movie. My first movie we made for $500. Then another one we made for $1,000. Then another one. This, the last one we made, had a bigger budget in a way, but again, I wasn't going to break the bank for it.

Speaker 2: 8:08

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 8:09

Because I understand that that's probably money that I won't see.

Speaker 1: 8:13

And you can't make money off of short films.

Speaker 3: 8:15

No, I mean, you shouldn't go into making a short film to be like I'm gonna make big bucks. That's not. That shouldn't be the the focus. But it's a proof of concept that if it does do well, then you can make it into a feature. And then you can't make money then, and then you it's, it's, you know it. Money is important. Money is something that everyone needs to get paid.

Speaker 1: 8:36

Also at this point in the uh eternal words of cabaret money makes the world go around.

Speaker 3: 8:42

Absolutely it does for those musical theater we're all about the money for the fossey heads, but like I do think that, uh, the smart way to do it is to just be like just write something that will you. You don't have to spend money on things that don't require that, and you can do it and you can make it. You don't have to wait around for the finance team or the this or the that and, to be honest, there's something really freeing about also not having to respond to anybody.

Speaker 1: 9:16

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3: 9:19

And I've made short films that they were, we've had like funding and it's a different experience it is, yeah, it it's um more cooks in the kitchen.

Speaker 1: 9:27

Yeah, you know, yeah, I am slower, yeah, much slower much slower, which I?

Speaker 3: 9:33

I have no patience. I like to do things and I like to do them fast and and I'm like I'd rather work harder for two weeks and make this extra money and be like I'm working towards that yeah I'm gonna do that and then you have it and that. But that's just me.

Speaker 1: 9:51

Yeah, that's how I think there's there's, you know, multiple approaches to it, but I like your approach because I I like the idea of keeping it simple, you know, and putting in your own money because you have control, but you're not breaking the bank and granted, like you know, 5k is a lot of money to some people.

Speaker 3: 10:08

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 10:09

But you know you're not just throwing money away onto something. This is your art, this is your craft, this is your career on some level, and I don't think people should be ashamed of putting in thousands of dollars into their film, because it's not just for fun.

Speaker 3: 10:25

No, you know, this is purposeful it's for yeah it's like some people do it because they want to go on vacation.

Speaker 1: 10:29

Some people do it because they want to buy things. Something. Going to paris, throwing your money away, yeah.

Speaker 3: 10:34

So it depends on what you want to do with your life and with your money and whatever, and no judgment on any of this. But, to me, it came to a point where I had done it, quite a lot that I had and it was like this way, smaller budgets back in the day, but then I look back and now there's a full body of work that is also you can see that the continuation of it, and you can see how it changed yeah and that's really cool in my, in my opinion, like to see like look, it started like that and we made this and it was still great.

Speaker 3: 11:09

So like you really don't need to, also like you have I made a film in december for nothing, literally not.

Speaker 1: 11:16

My friend came over, we had a camera. Uh, my wife was in it. It was one one character. Uh, my wife's an actress, not because she's my wife she's very talented. Um, and yeah, we shot a movie in a couple days and it's great it's not like the. Is it gonna win an oscar? Is it gonna change minds? Is it gonna, you know, revolutionize filmmaking? No, but I think it's enjoyable.

Speaker 3: 11:37

It has a message, it has something to say, and you know, it's just my, my people, my team, you know totally and I think that, especially if you're starting out and then you're seeking for other people that are starting out, you truly can make a movie for zero dollars. Yeah, I just for me. At this point in my life I wanted to spend some money on it.

Speaker 3: 11:57

Spend some money on it to pay people because I've done it enough where I was like okay, uh, we're all doing it as a favor and I'm like I don't. I think it's time to, yeah, to move from that.

Speaker 1: 12:10

But it's also kind of bringing it back to that thing we said, where it's gradual. You know, finding your people is gradual. You have to put time into it. Yeah, you have to put time into learning your craft as a writer, as an actor, as a director. You know, networking takes time and this does take time too.

Speaker 1: 12:26

Uh, and just to add something to this idea of can I keep it simple, I have a friend who's um, an actor, who has been writing, um and doing really well, and then they've partnered with a producer to make a short and the producer's like we'll throw $50,000 behind it. And is it that necessary? Because a $50,000 budget, you know, made Jeff Nichols director of midnight special, uh and uh loving. And recently Jeff Nichols, great filmmaker, I I think he's really talented made his first feature for $50,000 shock and brothers, with Michael Shannon and the bike riders. Thank you, thank you, haley. And so like, that's a feature yeah, you know that he made for $50,000, called shotgun brothers.

Speaker 1: 13:10

So like, yes, things are more expensive now, but when I think people are looking at short films, like I have I've done this recently, last year with a short film I wanted to do and we budgeted it out, and I was like, oh, it's gonna be like 45 000. And I looked at it and I was like, yeah, that's totally fine, it's not my money. And then I, you know, this year rolled around, because this was like late last year, uh, this year rolled around, I go. You know what? I need to cut it. I need to make it 15. Yeah, you know, I need to make it so much less because it's unnecessary to make it that expensive. Yeah, uh, it can be smaller, I think I am. I think if a film is too expensive, a short film is too expensive, like 50 000 because, that's too expensive.

Speaker 1: 13:51

It's indicative of it being not clear and what it's supposed to be, what it's supposed to say and I think I'm already making a feature out of a short yeah at that point, and you know, I think it's really to say and I think I'm already making a feature out of a short yeah at that point.

Speaker 3: 14:01

And you know, I think it's really important to mention, because this is something that people always ask me. They're like, how do you get all that? Uh, you know all these people to give you the space or do this, or do that or how to befriend them. It's, it's not like to me it's not just befriend them, give something back, because you cannot keep asking people for favors.

Speaker 3: 14:25

That's really annoying and it's just not okay. Um, so the thing is to just be of service to something that they need. Uh, come up with it. Don't don't ask them. Be like I'm gonna it's like almost offering something that is like a trade like okay, I, I can do this for you would. Would that be interesting? To you, and no one is also obligated to give you anything no one it's, it's like go find it, it's out there there's so many resources.

Speaker 1: 14:56

Oddly enough, you say that we, um, when we shot stupid cupid in new york, we had uh a scene in a georgian uh restaurant and they um, they had a special food called hachapuri and that is like a literally a cheese boat. It's like a bread with cheese in it and uh, we got that location for free yeah the switch, not the switch, but the.

Speaker 1: 15:22

The exchange was they we would cater, we would get catering from them. So for the crew, so they catered our entire. Like we paid for catering, we fed everybody from the restaurant, but then they gave us the location because they opened it like five and we were shooting from, you know, noon to five. So it works out and I, I, yeah, I see where, where that kind of comes from it literally like I don't think I've ever paid for a location ever, and everyone's like how do you get permits in la?

Speaker 1: 15:48

and it's like what it's like literally like I.

Speaker 3: 15:51

I got an overnight overnight parking spot, not parking garage like with the cars inside uh-huh upstate new york in the middle of nowhere.

Speaker 1: 16:04

The guy wasn't even present he just gave me the keys. That's interesting I.

Speaker 3: 16:08

I still don't know how that happened. That was some kind of divine intervention, don't park your car in upstate new york like seriously, I was like what how?

Speaker 1: 16:16

happen. A long time ago. This was almost like 15 years ago when I was first here I helped a friend of mine shoot some web series stuff for the CSI show I forget what the big show but it was a big show and they had some web series content and we literally were in a hotel room just hanging out. It was no permits, no, nothing. It was me. I was Gafford and Grippen for him. He was DPing as a director and there's two actors and it was like a spy thriller.

Speaker 3: 16:43

Totally, I love I mean you know it's just talk to people, be nice to them, like don't expect things If they say no. They say no.

Speaker 1: 16:57

But isn't that what friendship is? You know, is you could be a production company that wants to make a feature out of your short, fund your short, so you could make it, and then be like, ah, this is it. And then they would be like you're a good filmmaker here's more money, yeah uh, but there's also grants and not to keep bringing it back to stupid cute, but I just think it's a really interesting use case absolutely we got a grant for that film yeah but I feel like the grant is a unique combination of both worlds, where it's your money, quote unquote, and it's somebody else's money, sure.

Speaker 1: 17:26

So they were like here's money, have fun, and then we could do whatever we want with it. We had to deliver a short film or a project, but then you know it was our money. However, it came with stipulations. We had to shoot new york so that's why we got everybody. You know we, it was our money. However, it came with stipulations we had to shoot in New York.

Speaker 1: 17:42

So that's why we got everybody. You know, we flew all the actors down to New York minus you because you were already there at the time and so like that's also an opportunity. Absolutely Because it allows you the freedom to, you know, fuck around with your own money, of course, with some stipulations. Sure, no one's going to be like, oh, I don't like this scene right, they're going to be like no, you have to shoot new york because there's a grant from the city of new york, exactly yeah.

Speaker 3: 18:02

So yeah, no things like or a kickstarter.

Speaker 1: 18:04

You know you could do a kickstarter and like do that, that is still your money because it's coming to you but it also has a little bit of baggage, you know, because, yeah, it depends on how big your network is in your community and it's not an endless source like people will stop giving you money, exactly so the, the.

Speaker 1: 18:21

The one thing that I will kind of expand on that and to bring it back to the duplass brothers is you know I forget where I heard this, but he was. He was answering questions with filmmakers and was like, how do I make a movie now, in 2024? And with you know, there was something he touched on mark mark duplass where he said oh well, do you have a youtube channel?

Speaker 2: 18:39

it's like your story.

Speaker 1: 18:41

I forget what the story was was very you know it tied into youtubing, the youtube space.

Speaker 1: 18:47

So start a youtube channel, gain a following, then ask him for money to make your short yeah so there's this multi-pronged approach to not just think about the film or or the script or the idea as a film, but as a piece of consumed art I guess I don't know if that's the right word but just something that's a bit bigger than the project and to start thinking about yourself not as your project but as the person who created it. You are going to outlive your project by years, hopefully decades. Your career is going to outlive that. You're going to do so much more, and I think people don't really focus on the career of being a director. Having said that, sometimes people lean in too much the other way and they're like I'm a great director and I made a cool short and I'm better than Hollywood. And then you watch their stuff and you're like so don't be afraid to use your own money, I've used my own money, you've used your own money I've used my own money don't go into debt.

Speaker 3: 19:56

Yeah, definitely not.

Speaker 1: 19:57

I think that's the distinction of don't go into debt.

Speaker 3: 20:01

And if it stresses you out like I can't pay rent.

Speaker 1: 20:04

That's going into debt.

Speaker 3: 20:05

That's going into debt, so then don't do that, yeah, it's like be in a place where you're like whether it is that you have a money making job and you're like I can put in a couple more weeks into this and then make that, and it gives you the incentive yeah. I think that that's the way, that's one way, or whether it means that you're better at saving or whether it means that you I don't know sublet your apartment and some people donate blood.

Speaker 1: 20:30

This, I mean, it's like oh, whatever not, not even $100 or whatever, but it's still something, something, something, whatever it is that you can do like everyone.

Speaker 3: 20:39

We all have our ways, especially if we live in these expensive cities, and some people have money because they have money, whatever it is. But number one rule, I think, is put your own money but be clever about it, don't go into debt.

Speaker 3: 20:55

Don't go into debt and just really try to cut from the budget and then make it with that budget. So then that way is a fast way to do it. Don't go into debt. Don't go into debt and just like really try to cut from the budget instead of and then make it with that budget. So then that way is a fast way to do it. And you know, ask your friends and make it in that way and just little by little then you get you make one movie.

Speaker 1: 21:13

Then you're like, if that movie does well, then more people want to be involved with it, and then you're but then you have other people's money and then you stop making movies yeah, it's yeah, the way I think about filmmaking, you know, because people sometimes go into, like the corporate world and they're like, how do I make it in blah blah industry?

Speaker 1: 21:32

it's like, oh well, you get a job here and you put in time there and then you go to job there and you, you get promoted, you know, blah, blah, blah and blah, and there's a ladder that's what they call it the corporate ladder. And then people are like, oh, how do I make it in the film industry? And so the way I analogize it, the analogy I have, is, if the corporate world is a tree house, there's a ladder and you climb it, and if the filmmaking world is a tree house, it's just a house and a in a tree. Yeah, however, you can get up there, is you?

Speaker 3: 22:04

that's how you get up there, yeah because everyone has a different story and you can get to the top and then go right back and you could cut the tree down and then you have to find another tree, right?

Speaker 1: 22:07

you have to grow your own tree. Yeah, it's, there's. There's multiple ways of making a filmmaking treehouse.

Speaker 3: 22:13

Yes, grow your own tree, build your own house, you know but I do have to say there's something about making your own stuff, uh, and especially as an actor, right now that it gives you so much more power yeah and uh, the way that the industry is changing right now I think it might be the one of the few ways to keep yourself relevant, I think yeah, I see a lot of actors doing sketch comedy on on instagram on social media, starting youtube channels, starting their own short films.

Speaker 1: 22:48

We live in a world where we are so connected that musicians don't need a record contract to be successful.

Speaker 3: 22:55

Things have really changed, and especially since the strike and after, like things are, production especially. I mean, everyone keeps saying that to me because I'm european, so everyone is like everything has moved to europe yeah, so, and now you may have quote unquote, not tbd, but it's a mystery still.

Speaker 1: 23:15

Uh, I've gotten a show in greece.

Speaker 3: 23:17

Yeah, so it's. I'm really excited.

Speaker 1: 23:19

Is it in?

Speaker 3: 23:20

Greek no, it's in English.

Speaker 1: 23:22

That's interesting.

Speaker 3: 23:23

It's a Greek American production. That's so cool yeah.

Speaker 1: 23:26

Well, we can't wait to see it. Thank, you. Just to recap use your own money, don't break the bank, don't spend too much money. I mean um, but just enjoy the craft and enjoy being a filmmaker, because if you don't, why are you doing it?

Speaker 3: 23:40

go home, go be an accountant, true you know, it's like it's gonna be a little scary. A little scary is good, too scary not good. Yeah, that's. And going back to the not, don't go into debt. But yeah and I highly recommend that book, the duplass brothers Brothers book.

Speaker 1: 23:58

It's really like Brothers. Like Brothers by Mark and Jay Duplass.

Speaker 3: 24:04

Yeah, there we go. It's really inspiring. I'll have to read it. I'll have to read it.

Speaker 1: 24:09

I've read a couple, but not of theirs, but I've read a couple of those filmmakers who were kind of DIY from the beginning Robert Rodriguez, Zina.

Speaker 3: 24:18

Thank you, Thank you so much for having me. This was so fun.

Speaker 1: 24:21

Thank you for a wonderful season of amazing things. We talked about a whole lot of things that I wasn't even kind of like familiar with. That I learned a lot. I learned to kind of pivot away from the direct emotion that I would write for a character and do the opposite because it makes them stronger, not necessarily like, oh, if they're happy, make them sad, but you know they're still sad, they're trying to be happy that that that's, I think, the clarification there. So I did learn a lot. So thank you for coming on.

Speaker 3: 24:52

Hopefully. I learned a lot too. I'm glad. Yes, yeah, I'm glad and hopefully, oh, that's right yeah, we had a whole episode of special effects.

Speaker 1: 24:59

I hope the listeners learned a lot too, and we're gonna have a new guest next season after our mid-season special. So, zena, thank you again. Thank you so much for having me take care. Everyone, thank you for listening to the IndieWood podcast. You can find us on anywhere you find your podcasts and on Instagram at IndieWoodPod. See you next time.

Speaker 2: 25:20

From the CFA Network. Cinematography for Actors is bridging the gap through education and community building. Find out about us and listen to our other podcast at cinematographyforactorscom. Cinematography for Actors Institute is a 501c3 non-profit. For more information on fiscal sponsorship donations because we're tax-exempt now, so it's a tax write-off and upcoming education you can email us at contact at cinematographyforactorscom. Thanks.