Marriage can be a beautiful journey, but it comes with its fair share of communication challenges. Have you ever wondered how to maintain effective dialogue with your spouse through the years? In this episode, we share a candid look at our nearly 12-year marriage, reflecting on the importance of transparency, setting aside dedicated time for conversations, and the pitfalls of holding onto grudges. By recounting personal experiences, we highlight the lessons we've learned about controlling anger and ensuring mutual goals are met.
Navigating family dynamics can be just as complex. How do past experiences shape our approach to conflicts within our families? We examine the roles we've played, from peacekeepers to avoiders, and discuss how we've evolved into better listeners and communicators. By modeling healthy disagreements, we've taught our children that love remains steadfast even amidst differences. Our journey underscores the significance of active listening and understanding in fostering a supportive family environment.
To protect and nurture your marriage, it's crucial to communicate effectively and confide in the right people. We discuss the importance of seeking trusted counsel and the benefits of resources like "Love and Respect" by Dr. Emerson Eggerichs and "The Five Love Languages" by Dr. Gary Chapman. Our weekly "Chatterbox" sessions have been instrumental in maintaining transparency and resolving conflicts. As we hint at future discussions, including the sensitive topic of sex within marriage, we invite you to join us on this path of growth and connection, building stronger relationships together.
Marriage can be a beautiful journey, but it comes with its fair share of communication challenges. Have you ever wondered how to maintain effective dialogue with your spouse through the years? In this episode, we share a candid look at our nearly 12-year marriage, reflecting on the importance of transparency, setting aside dedicated time for conversations, and the pitfalls of holding onto grudges. By recounting personal experiences, we highlight the lessons we've learned about controlling anger and ensuring mutual goals are met.
Navigating family dynamics can be just as complex. How do past experiences shape our approach to conflicts within our families? We examine the roles we've played, from peacekeepers to avoiders, and discuss how we've evolved into better listeners and communicators. By modeling healthy disagreements, we've taught our children that love remains steadfast even amidst differences. Our journey underscores the significance of active listening and understanding in fostering a supportive family environment.
To protect and nurture your marriage, it's crucial to communicate effectively and confide in the right people. We discuss the importance of seeking trusted counsel and the benefits of resources like "Love and Respect" by Dr. Emerson Eggerichs and "The Five Love Languages" by Dr. Gary Chapman. Our weekly "Chatterbox" sessions have been instrumental in maintaining transparency and resolving conflicts. As we hint at future discussions, including the sensitive topic of sex within marriage, we invite you to join us on this path of growth and connection, building stronger relationships together.
What's up?
Speaker 2:y'all. Hey fam, what's good y'all.
Speaker 1:I was looking at Babe, like you gonna do the intro today.
Speaker 2:Oh, am I doing the intro?
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 2:Oh, alright, what's good my people, it's late, y'all Listen, it's like 9.50.
Speaker 1:It's like the open book podcast after dark.
Speaker 2:Right, we never, or at least our last two shows, have not been this late, but it's late. It's saturday night and it's late and we come in at y'all saturday night live want to chop it up. We're gonna have some chats about communication communication magic.
Speaker 1:Listen, we're gonna try to hit on this show, man. We're really gonna try to hit all the good stuff, man, like I want. I can't even express enough. This show ain't really about having no perfect marriage. Ain't no perfect marriages out there? This show is really just us to open our book up.
Speaker 2:Open the book, show what's been working for us, what ain't been working for us and, you know, try to help out some other people to help open their book up yes, I mean, we've been in it for almost 12 years and I think it's important that we, you know, try to help out some other people to help open their book up as they rock. Yes, I mean, we've been in it for almost 12 years and I think it's important that we kind of talk about what has and hasn't worked for us and hopefully that we can, you know, help some other people. And you know you guys can leave us some comments to see if some of the things that we've been doing over the years you've kind of picked up to what did and didn't work for you and your marriage, and you know we can have some dialogue. So, yeah, let's get into it.
Speaker 1:And, by the way, really quick, just a couple of housekeeping notes. Man, our Facebook page is up.
Speaker 2:Thank you all so much for the support. We really, really, really appreciate it. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1:I literally just created that, john, like a week ago. Man Like it's. We have over 600 followers, man. Thank y'all so much. Y'all so dope.
Speaker 2:Yes, thank you.
Speaker 1:It feels like every day I go in there. We got another hundred, so keep rocking, hopefully there, and we make this big, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank you so much.
Speaker 1:Life is about growing, thank you, for following us.
Speaker 2:I mean we just being genuine and transparent about the things that we've gone through and what did and didn't work for us in our marriage, and we appreciate y'all for tuning in, so thank you.
Speaker 1:And if y'all want to support the show, you can click the link wherever y'all follow this, whether it's Apple Podcasts or wherever this, whether it's apple podcast or wherever just click the link in there and it should be a link to where you can become a supporter, become part of the fam. Yes, you know, I'm saying so.
Speaker 2:Yeah, today are this nighttime episode, this is about right, because we had to have communication about when we were going to do the show. This week has been super busy and we were planning to do it yesterday and then thursday. Because yesterday was busy, we couldn't get to a thursday. We couldn't get to it yesterday and it was like, oh, should we do it in the morning? And we were not aligned in the time to do it in the morning. And then babe was like, well, what about, let's do it now? And it's like I'm about to go, so that's not gonna work.
Speaker 1:So here we are, late night late night and we could have slid again. We could have. This is again like in a marriage, man, you got so much room to give each other the excuses in the wiggle room Right, and sometimes you have a shared goal and you might never get it done because y'all might be giving each other a pass too much and sometimes you just got to hold each other, so one of y'all gotta be like we about to rock.
Speaker 2:Yes, we gotta stand firm and get it done, or it's not gonna get done, we're gonna keep pushing it to the side.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah so let's talk about this communication magic. What, what was, what was it like 12 years ago coming into the game? What did we learn about each other and ourselves?
Speaker 2:well, one of the things that really worked well for us, especially in the beginning of just our dating life, which we talked about on the first episode was us having check-ins and we tried to kind of bring that into the first couple years of marriage because we had so much friction and our communication back then was very volatile. We would get into it and we would get into it.
Speaker 1:You probably thought I married this poet rapper. He's going to be so eloquent.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I said I was fiery. Please believe that Jay was right up there firing with me. We was burning each other. Okay With the flames that we was pouring out. It was rough because there was nobody to say. You know what I'm going to digress. I'm going to slow this train down so that we can get to the root of the problem and really be able to, you know, turn this situation around so that we can um, rectify it.
Speaker 2:And I mean we would be going for days days, and it wasn't like we wasn't sleeping in the same room, um, somebody was sleeping on the couch. I mean, no, we was, we was going at it and it was. It was um, it was tough. It was definitely tough.
Speaker 1:It was, I know you know, one of the biggest lessons I learned, man, is you know when you get mad and you just want to win you feel like man, I've been wrong.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:She know what she said and you just keep replaying it in your head, like you wake up the next day and it'd be over, the anger be gone, and you'd rile it back up.
Speaker 2:You'd be like oh yeah, let me play it on, oh yeah, no, no, no, because you know it's the thing, right, you say, hey, you know you ain't doing a little cute little names that y'all used to call each other. It's denia, yeah you jason, you already know good morning. You barely even getting a look. Okay, like we ain't doing that today. Like don't be coming in my face acting like you ain't say what you said yesterday, because I still got some feelings about that.
Speaker 2:So I'm gonna give you the bare minimum and then need that go somewhere, right that go.
Speaker 1:You know, I know for me like and I know a lot of dudes and we've a lot of dudes told me this in the past we don't like men don't like confrontation. I know a lot of dudes and we've a lot of dudes told me this in the past we don't like men don't like confrontation. I know like the public thinks differently men do not like confrontation. So it's like a lot of times, like when we was going at it, I was like avoiding you.
Speaker 2:I was like patterning my whole day to get around the interaction now, homie, now now, what you avoid me for let's, let's talk about it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and see, that's the. That's the thing. I think a lot of people that get married don't realize that. That's, you know, for men we like well she tripping, so I'm gonna just be down here in the man cave or I'm going to just stay out a little later, when the woman is thinking we need to resolve, we need to resolve.
Speaker 2:Why are we letting this go on for a few days? And we've always had a child in the home. Even when you know I wasn't pregnant, there was every other weekend there was a child in our home. So we would, especially on weekends where you know Juliet would be there. It would be kind of like communicating with her but not really talking to each other.
Speaker 2:Not talking to each other it was all bad and please believe she felt that like no kid is is never gonna be totally blind to the fact that there is tension in the house, you know. So like we was all sweet and angelic to her but we was like giving each other like the eye or like barely talking, and it was weird that's the tough part, I think you being able to show your kids how do you get out of it when you're in it.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, because you're going to get into it, you're going to get into it, and having conflict is healthy If you're not having some type of disagreement or you guys are not, you know, bringing something to the table that you may not agree on. Y'all holding that in. I just I don't believe that everybody's going to be on the same page 100% of the time. And you know you either don't feel comfortable enough with your spouse to bring something up because you don't want there to be an issue, or you know you just you're trying to keep things kind of like peaceful. You burying it, you taking tally.
Speaker 1:You counting?
Speaker 2:down. Oh okay, he ain't like. Okay, let me add that next to the thing he said yesterday or the thing that happened last week, and then by the time it spill out, this is like who even knows Months of tension that goes into this humongous argument that lasts for days and now you're trying to figure. Like what are we even? What thing are we actually arguing about?
Speaker 1:yeah, you know men, men don't like to get cut down, we don't like our manhood challenged and spoke against, and women really don't like and I'm speaking for y'all. I shouldn't, but I've learned that it's just not good for men to leave the the issues unresolved, to run and hide from them. Women want their man to step up and try to bring some kind of resolution when there's an obvious problem, and that's just a.
Speaker 1:It's a cat and mouse game, that kind of just accelerates, yeah yeah, I mean so when we was in it, like in the early years when we would get into it, what did we find? What was, uh, what do we think was the what? Why did we come with so much fire at each other, like, why was we doing it wrong at the beginning?
Speaker 2:I because we didn't talk. I think that, um, I think that we would kind of let the littlest things irritate us. I don't think that we really fully built a trust around feeling comfortable enough to have disagreement and it not be an argument, because I mean, and even now still, sometimes now we can be talking about something and you may say something that you don't, you may say something that I don't agree with, and vice versa, and it could go left quick and it's like oh, now we have raised voices, how did we get here? And so I think that now, just having the maturity and saying, oh OK, this conversation is going a little left, somebody needs to digress, or we need to kind of table it, whereas before it wasn't no tabling.
Speaker 2:You know it was. Oh, if you don't, if you don't agree with me, or if you don't like something that I said, then something's wrong with you and let's, let's talk you know, let's let's talk about what's wrong with you, and let's talk about what's wrong with you, not let's talk about what the disagreement is.
Speaker 1:Plus, I think, like you said in the past, when it would go left, it almost would be like I know for me I would start getting mad about the fact it's going left. You know what I'm saying. So it's like now I'm not even mad about the thing we disagree about, I'm mad that we disagree and that's, I think, the thing. For me. That's different, right? So now, when we recognize that we disagree and I don't get mad about that, right, like I understand that we two different people, yeah, and there's going to be times where we completely clash in opinion, and that's cool, and it don't. It don't got to end up being something that I think in that I know, for me, a lot of it in the past was like this is a new marriage, I don't really know what I'm doing, I want to make it work. So if we clash, then that's some kind of indictment on our marriage.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, For me it was. I don't have to agree with you. For me, you feeling like we needed to agree all the time was taking away my identity was taking away from me, me being me.
Speaker 2:I'm not going to always agree with you and I shouldn't always agree with you. And so there was. It was kind of like when we would get into these arguments, I felt like I was fighting for myself, for my voice to be heard, separate from yours, like yes, we are a unit in marriage, but we are individuals. And I felt that sometimes that it was just kind of like you know, I could never not agree with you and it was like but I don't agree with you, and so sometimes it would be you know what, let me just say yes, let me keep the peace, because I don't want this to get into something that like way bigger than it needed to be.
Speaker 1:They wanted to grow.
Speaker 2:But then, like, what did that mean for me? Right, because it's like, but I mean that's not really being true to who I am. I'm just saying that just because I don't want there to be any argument, but then that's not really me standing up for me, or you know, like me feeling, like I have a voice and I just absolutely need to agree with you. So it was, it was. It was just trying to figure out how to make how to how to how to work through that.
Speaker 1:I think what do you think about how much of our upbringing, cultural background, previous relationship experiences, how much do you think that played a role?
Speaker 2:I think it played a huge role. You know sorry, trying to get this cat toy I think it played a huge role for me. You know I just came out of a couple of relationships that there was a lot of argument and disagreement. I also had witnessed my parents argue, fight, disagree on a regular basis and, knowing that I didn't want that to be something that we delved into physically, there was a lot of. I saw a lot of rage. I saw friends in relationships that had a lot of rage and so, yeah, I mean I can't say that I've been in spaces where I've seen healthy disagreements and then not get into a space of it being resolved in a timely fashion and, you know it, not escalating to some type of physicality or you know you being called out, your name or you know, just just blatant disrespect, um, so yeah, I have not, I hadn't seen that, I hadn't been around people who did that and, um, I didn't really come into it knowing how to have a healthy disagreement without it being chaotic.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:What about you without?
Speaker 1:it being chaotic. Yeah, what about you? I think for me it was more early on, you know, like growing up seeing so much stuff, street life, type of approach to relationships you know, and the unhealthy relationships that my mom had tried, and like seeing dudes you know get violent with her, that pretty much kind of just gave me like a nightmare version of what I thought could happen, yeah, in those kind of instances.
Speaker 1:So a lot of times I was running from conflict because I wasn't you know. I just thought it it'd get real bad right. I didn't. I understood that there is healthy conflict. I'm kind of like you I hadn't seen what it looked like. So I was taking the opposite approach of because I don't see what it looked like, I'm just gonna avoid this conflict yeah, you know, yeah, and I'm not an avoider.
Speaker 2:I mean I try to keep the peace, I do. Let me not, let me not say it like I just feel some trash, because I don't, I really don't, you know, I find a flashlight though. I am a flashlight. I found that I've kind of been thrown into things without wanting to be thrown like in the midst of like chaos happening around me. I'm thrown into the middle of it to be the one to resolve, to be the OK. You know what you got to come in and to resolve to be the okay.
Speaker 2:You know what you got to come in and you got to fix this, you know yeah, and that's your role in your family too that is my role in my family and it's hard because that is a lot of pressure and it's like sometimes these situations that I have nothing to do with, I'm thrown in the midst of to try to, you know, help calm things down. But now I got all this stuff on my shoulders and how do I not bring that into my home and change the temperature of my home and have it be chaotic, me dumping that into my household, right? So yeah, it's tough. I mean there's been times, especially like in my childhood, me and my brothers would get into it all the time, or, like you know, I mean it was a situation where my brother was mad at something and something that had happened and I like we fighting and it's like, how did I even get in the middle?
Speaker 1:of this.
Speaker 2:Like this, ain't even like.
Speaker 1:I don't have nothing to do with this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you know, I've just found that. Yeah, my family has really been like, if things are kind of going crazy, let's call up Dania, let's see what she can do to help resolve the situation. Let me get her on the phone and maybe she can talk to XYZ or, you know, help calm the situation down. And I mean, I love my family, don't get me wrong, I do, I love my family, but that is draining.
Speaker 2:It is very draining and you know I've been diagnosed with anxiety disorder and it can be a lot to already be dealing with things that I'm dealing with and now you dumping all of your stuff on to me, and I have to. You are expecting me to come in and solve things and work things out for you, but then not everything is good with you.
Speaker 1:Who will help you process Right?
Speaker 2:you just be like oh she good.
Speaker 1:Without bringing it back to your home and your family.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so like really trying to find a way to create healthy boundaries and make sure that you know again, my voice is heard and I'm covered at all costs, because I can't be everything to everybody.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you said something earlier I thought was really good, especially in talking about our early years in communication and how it would go left and just turn into this blow up. And next thing, you know, we saying like you know, when people love each other, they know the things that will hurt each other.
Speaker 2:So we throw in the thing, the one thing we know that will hurt. We're going to go for that. We will go low too, y'all.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know we're going to go low. So it's like I do feel like we hit some point where we stopped doing it. We started to recognize we can work our way out of arguments without having to try to hurt each other and have to be some lingering traumatic thing where we've affected each other for things that can't be healed. You know how? How do you think we one approach? Cause this is one thing I heard from so many people over the years men and women. They always say the same thing. It ain't always. What you say is how you saying it.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:How do we figure out how to talk to each other better?
Speaker 2:I think, when we became better listeners, I think that really shifted things for us. I mean, don't get me wrong, we've met with some really good mentors who've walked us through some really tough times. I think that once we started to become more aware of what it is, that we were each, like me, really trying to understand what it is you're trying to say. And I'm actually listening to you to understand, and I'm not just listening to you, waiting until you finish so I can say what I need to say, but actually like listening, like quieting my mind enough to listen and understand. I mean, I think it was a point where we got, we would repeat back to each other what we, what they said, to make sure we clearly understood, and you know, we were clear on what it was. The each person was trying to say that so that we can. Okay, now that we've got this understanding of what you're saying and what I'm saying, how can we move? Let's talk about the next phase of this and how can we?
Speaker 2:put that into play. So just really being intentional and making sure that we were listening to understand.
Speaker 1:I feel like we grew up to. I feel like we really started having some real grown folks conversation, and by that I don't mean like cussing. I think, you know, I think we really started to mature and learn and who we were, start to really say what we really mean. And still, you know, like not talking about what you did, but talking about what I did, right, like talking about how I feel, saying I statements, and also not just being like I'm mad about blank, but I'm scared about blank and that's why.
Speaker 2:I'm mad. You know what I'm saying Talking about the real feeling underneath.
Speaker 1:I think that opens the door, because a lot of people could come in a room and be like I'm pissed off because you always like the blank.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean. Anybody can do that.
Speaker 1:But it takes something else to be like. I'm afraid of this outcome and it makes me feel like that's going to happen when you do this. Yeah, that outcome. And it makes me feel like that's going to happen when you do this yeah that's different.
Speaker 2:That is different and I think also us having accountability, because you know, a lot of the times you don't, you can't admit to when you did something wrong right it's like you gonna kind of go around that bush as much as you can until it's like all right, okay, I did it.
Speaker 2:But, like coming up, you know, from the very jump and being like you know what? I did this, I said this. I take accountability for that, I apologize, I apologize. You know, it's amazing how saying that those words can change a situation drastically big time just by saying I apologize, do you forgive me?
Speaker 1:yeah, because the other game could go forever it changes the game. You know how it be. People like well, you yelling at me, I'm not even yelling, no you yelling no, I'm not even yelling. When nobody is willing to admit anything, you're not going to get anywhere.
Speaker 2:And it is absolutely a lot about the tone Like you really have to be aware because you saying something you know I was wrong. Yeah, I'm sorry, it's not the same as. I was wrong. You know what? Yes, yeah. I'm sorry, that is not the same thing, at all, and one is you can clearly hear oh, you know what, I'm not bad, whereas the other one is like I mean it's wrong but I don't really mean it.
Speaker 2:You know I'm saying whatever. You know that it's a difference. It is definitely a difference, for sure yeah, I definitely think that.
Speaker 1:Um, how, and you know just when you in a marriage man, when you claim that you love somebody, man and like God, and brought you the person that's for you and we know how this dating game is out here y'all it's a lot of people out there wishing they had the person for them. So when you find that person for you, you do got to start challenging yourself to be like man. Am I really talking to them in a way that showed him how much I love you know? I'm saying like if I'm honoring them in my or am I just cutting them and tearing them down? Because how you really gonna be in a loving relationship when you so eager to cut and tear the other person down, like I know we all done it. But eventually you got to ask yourself yeah like.
Speaker 1:This is the person I'm blessed with. Yes, and here I am, like slashing them up, yeah and I mean that's gonna affect both of y'all.
Speaker 2:That's not just affecting you, because when you tearing them down you're really tearing, it's a domino effect. You know you have to think about how that's gonna affect you. How does that affect your household? How is that affecting your kids? You know, when jay and I would argue, our kids would cry and that would freak us out right, because, like they normally don't see us in that state, we're all we're very loving around each other, around our children. You know they see us hugging, they see us kissing each other, they see us, um, you know, really loving on each other. So if there's ever a disagreement to where we like arguing, they're in tears.
Speaker 2:So, we don't. You know we have disagreements, but we never have anything like scream, knocking down, like brawling type disagreements. I mean, you know, we've had it to where it's been tough and they've seen that and they've, you know, shown us, hey, we're affected by what's happening and we've, like you know, immediately like OK, we really need to talk about this because this is not the same what we want our kids to see, but like also being able to if we have a disagreement and our voices get raised and they look at us like, oh my gosh, are you guys arguing raised?
Speaker 2:and they look at us like, oh my gosh, are you guys?
Speaker 2:arguing us saying hey, you know what? No, this is a healthy disagreement that we're having and this is what you can expect to have in a good way with your mate. You can have a disagreement and sometimes your voices may get raised, but not to the point to where y'all can't take a step back and back down and be able to say you know what? I disagree with you, you disagree with me. We're not going to agree on this. Let's move on and keep it moving in a loving way.
Speaker 1:It's important that you show your kids the difference because, you are not going to always agree on everything, but they need to be able to see what is healthy and what is not, because when they grow up, they're going to hit them moments too, and they need to know, they need some kind of blueprint. How do we make it through it? Because too many young people will be like well, we ain't feeling each other, we out.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:It's a wrap.
Speaker 2:Yes, and I mean we have been very clear on this is disrespectful. I am not going to tolerate your dad talking to me this way, like he is very clear. I am not going to tolerate mommy being disrespectful to me in this way and they have to understand what that looks like so that they can be aware of what it is. If they see it and understand like wait, when my parents didn't deal with that, I'm not going to deal with that, neither so and it feels good in those moments where we disagree and we can work through it.
Speaker 1:But our kids are like, oh no, y'all are disagreeing and we can explain to them. No, we good. This is what a marriage looks like.
Speaker 2:We're not always going to agree, and that's okay. We still love each other. We love you guys. We're not going to put you guys in an unsafe situation. We're not going to intentionally do that. So us having this disagreement is just something that happens and that's okay. We still love each other and we're going to push through this.
Speaker 1:So let's tell folks, like you said, we had a lot of help. Not initially, we didn't have a blueprint from our parents, but God blessed us with other things A great church, a good church family, a great pastor and his wife a good couple who could pour into us Other married couples that we met at the church who could? Pour into us Other young people who started looking? Up to us for some help, right, and that's a good chain to be in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yes.
Speaker 1:It's good to be in that chain of people who are older than you and people who are younger than you as you're going through that stuff in life. So, yeah, let's just talk a little bit about, like, what's some things that helped us particular people, books, workshops, what helped us throughout the years?
Speaker 2:Well, I know for me when we originally got married. So we got married and went immediately into a marriage life group at our church under the Sips um, and they were so instrumental, shout out to Eunice and Lorenzo. They were such a blessing, because when I say transparency, yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean they would come in class and they would be all lovey-dovey one day and they'd be in the thick of an argument coming in class, the next and right into it, but they also would be talking about some of the hot and steamy stuff they got going on too.
Speaker 2:They just transparent, they were very transparent, and I mean on those days that they was going into it.
Speaker 2:the lesson like working through the lesson you could see it, helping them squash some of what it was that they were going through. You know, so it was such a blessing to us and I mean in that group we had so many married people came from out of that group. I mean older, seasoned marriages, there were younger marriages, there were older people, there were younger people, there were people our age, a lot of people we were pregnant with at the same time. So it was just a true blessing to us and I. That first year we really didn't know like who we could talk to, and I think we had.
Speaker 2:we were like apprentice leaders and like we had got invited over to, like, um, someone's home and we were like so amazed to find out that there were so many blended families and we were just thinking like, oh my gosh, we were in this by ourselves. But like seeing so many people, like pushing through day to day, really helped us to open up and really reach out to the Sips and to the Wilcoxons and to people who you know, the James family, people who could really help us.
Speaker 2:The Millers helped us in the spaces where we really could navigate and needed some assistance. In the spaces where we really could navigate and needed some assistance, they were there with open arms to help, assist us and guide us through that.
Speaker 1:So you know, one of the most interesting tests we have remember we got like you said, we became apprentice leader, like we got called into leadership.
Speaker 2:Like immediately.
Speaker 1:Right when we was in the thick of it. We don't even want you to say so we right in the thick of it, right, so we right in the middle of it and we being asked to be moving the leadership. That's tough, but I think the thing that it opened our eyes on was the fact that all leaders have to face that every day they all going through it and in the thick of it, challenged even more.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it's like I know.
Speaker 1:A lot of times we tend to think like oh man, our pastor and his wife are all great. Or you know these seasoned couples around us, they all great.
Speaker 2:But everybody be going through the same thing, and I mean even just having our pastor and, you know, his wife reach out to us and ask if there's anything that they could do for us. How can they pray? Pray for us, it's like what Like word. As big as this church is, y'all really care about us. That's, that was huge for us.
Speaker 1:We cannot send enough shouts out to Pastor Kevin James and Sister Tanya James at New Community Bible Fellowship. If any of y'all are in the Cleveland Ohio area, y'all looking for a great church. You can't go wrong. Stop area. Y'all looking for a great church. You can't go wrong.
Speaker 2:Stop in there, because listen, pastor kevin, and sister tanya, have been truly, yeah, family for us, family, family, I mean, we would not have been at our church for as long as we have been if they weren't yeah they've been amazing I mean, they've even stepped into some of our disputes right in.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, they have. Like we will help walk y'all through this.
Speaker 2:Not just on our marriage. They've been there for us individually personally as well. So you know really. I mean I think that's what's important, you know, because as we're learning from these people and seeing them as people you know, and not just leaders in the church, but like getting to know them as people, you get a better understanding of the different struggles that they go through too right.
Speaker 2:It's not just you know you going through this, or you know you really have people out there that's really there and really want to help you grow, which is so important. I think you know when you're looking at people to be mentors, you looking at them and making sure that they trying to uplift you as well. You know it's not just a follow me.
Speaker 2:You know, we just don't, like you want to, some somebody that's going to be able to help lift you up and push you and propel you and challenge you to help you be the best version of yourself to as well as help you be a better wife or better husband. So we've been truly blessed to be able to have those people in our lives.
Speaker 1:And godly people, man, because you can always tell when godly people are around you, because they look at you and see the great version of you. They see what you can grow into. They ain't trying to hold you back. You know a lot of people. I'm not saying they're malicious or nothing, but they kind of want you to fall into the same trap. That's right.
Speaker 2:You got to be careful, and I'm going to say this I am going to tell you you have to be careful who it is that you're trying to talk to about your relationship, because that person that you swore up and down is going to be there for you thick and thin, is the same person that's ready to tear your marriage down. Ready, ready, ready, ready. So you really have to be careful. Some of my best friends don't know every day what we're going through and they're not supposed to. Our marriage is sacred.
Speaker 2:We're supposed to go to God first with whatever it is that we're going through, and they come to each other next right. And then, whoever we have designated as people that we both feel confident and trust enough to bring into our marriage that we, you know, we ain't going gossiping about or sharing our business it's gonna come in and try to, because the devil is busy trying to tear marriages down. And listen, I you heard what I said in the last episode. I'm protecting my family at all costs. You ain't about to come up in here thinking. You about to plant, not a Nancy, we're not doing that, we're not. So you have to be careful. You out here kicking it with your girls, you out here kicking it with your dudes, and y'all thinking y'all just having a good time and that's not going to infiltrate in your marriage somehow. Don't get it twisted.
Speaker 1:Are you thinking you could just be griping and other people going to commiserate with you and everybody can complain about they met?
Speaker 2:Nah, don't do that All somebody need is an opening, because you know what. Here it is, you going through your struggles in your marriage and they out here flourishing. And who even knows you and your marriage dissolve she could and who even knows you and your marriage dissolve, she could be, oh, calling on his life. You just never know. You just never know. Don't let nobody plant no negative seeds in your marriage.
Speaker 1:That is important to communication. You got to be pure about it. One of the things I learned a long time ago is don't ever cast your spouse in a negative light to nobody. No, nobody Right, especially your friends. Don't just be around. Oh man, my wife this, my husband that, because here's the thing, you're going to forgive your spouse way quicker than them other people will. So now y'all got to go around and all them people you done trashed her to and you done burnt her name. They looking at her in that way, in that light, yeah to and you done burnt her name.
Speaker 2:They looking at her in that way. In that light, yeah, I mean, again, if you need to get into some marriage counseling, you need to speak to somebody about some things that y'all going through, you know if there's infidelity or something like that happening and you really want to work on your marriage. So, yeah, I mean, if you feel like you need to get into some marriage counseling and that's one thing you know, obviously you talking to somebody that's going to help you work through whatever it is that you're going through, or you feel like, again, this is somebody that you have confidence, you and your spouse Y'all has spoken to and y'all you know you feel like you're in a good space to share those private things, then do so. But don't just be going willy nilly telling everybody anything.
Speaker 1:Don't do it also we did have some books right. We, um, we were in that life group. We studied love and respect love and respect.
Speaker 2:That was a really good one by you, I don't know the book is gonna be over there, the man who wrote the five love languages oh, it's dr gary chapman.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there we go. Okay, there you go. We also did study the five love languages, um, and really just getting to grab one of the things I know really helped us and I know I'm not gonna be able to remember these people's name, but it was a youtube channel of a pastor. It was this uh, this pastor was a white cat.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's right, and he spoke about blended families, step families. You know it was. I don't know how old the video was, but we do you remember the name of that pastor? Remember it was like it was a pastor and we watched the YouTube videos early on and he talked about the roles of each person in step family.
Speaker 2:It was so good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was what pivoted our marriage yeah, it was like our first pivot was like watching that and being like oh, who was the author of that book?
Speaker 2:because I said it wrong.
Speaker 1:yes, so dr emerson egorist, um, yes, uh, love and respect the love she most desires. Really, talking about that difference between how a man communicates and what a man really needs to hear, versus how a woman communicates and what a woman really needs to hear?
Speaker 2:tough times and we watched that video and we really started to learn some things about, like, where our communication has fell off. You know the different roles of being, you know married with a blended family, you know the importance of making sure you're putting your spouse in a spouse's place and, if you've put your children in that space, how it can be difficult for you to kind of move away from that and how it can create an imbalance.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. Is that the last book we want to touch on, do we have?
Speaker 2:others that played a big role. A couple of books that we will others that played a big role. We had a couple books that we will tune into in a second.
Speaker 1:If I think of them, I will tag them in the links here. But I want to touch on one other thing and I know we're going to talk about we have a future episode coming up about sex. Yeah, talking about it, you know, I know we got to get into that. How often? Uh, intimacy, how do you crack that, the magic code to each other's intimacy? But there is a piece that I think is relevant to today's topic and that is, I know, for us, improving our communication, elevated our sex life yes, it did.
Speaker 2:Because here's the thing we learned very, very, very, very, very, very early on, like within the first month, that we are not ones to go into it where we about to be all in each other's faces upset yeah with each other, thinking we about to get into the nitty gritty. Now they work for some people Y'all be getting into that angry, get in. But that don't work for us. We a little too fiery for that.
Speaker 2:So it definitely helped us to understand that that's not the space for us. You know the makeup, that's a different story, but, like in the midst of it, you know that we it's too much going on.
Speaker 1:I don't, I don't know, I don't. I don't understand how people do it. I just sound, I don't know. We'll talk about that in the sex episode.
Speaker 2:Yeah but yeah, we, we are, we have really great conversation.
Speaker 1:I thought you were about to say sex we have that too, but we have very great conversation.
Speaker 2:I mean, we talk about everything.
Speaker 2:We talk about, I mean everything, and it almost really leads into foreplay for us. So, yes, communication is huge, leads into foreplay for us. So, yes, communication is huge and I mean it is very important for you to be able to talk to your spouse about, when you know you ain't feeling it, when you are feeling it, what works, what doesn't work and, like Jay said, we'll get into that in another episode. But it is very important that you can be able to communicate in those spaces, especially if there's been some time that has passed.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because sometimes I mean, let's be honest, you may not well for me.
Speaker 2:I can't speak for everybody. You know I be having all types of things going on in my mind and I may not be really paying attention not unintentionally, like I'm not trying to not pay attention but you know I have to remember that I'm I have a spouse who has needs not to say that I don't have needs, but you know I have to be really aware of the fact of okay, wait a minute, let's think about what's going on so that we can make sure each other's needs are met and really being able to listen and communicate around.
Speaker 2:if some time has lapsed, let's talk about that and let's again be good listeners.
Speaker 1:That's one of the hardest times too, I know y'all listening. Y'all know when it has been a few. You know a little bit. I'm not going to speak on anybody else's frequency Right, right, right but but you know when. It then made it to like a week, two weeks, you know what's happening?
Speaker 2:what's up I?
Speaker 1:know, for me it's hard to. I've found it it's hard to communicate, it's hard to say that right, and I know that, especially earlier in the relationship. Uh, now we much deeper in the marriage and we understand each other more and we've had enough conversations to where we we have that a little bit better, but that is still probably. And I've, like I said, I talked to a lot of dudes who come to me and they're like hey, coach me up on this, help me in this, and so many dudes struggle with that one moment right there. Yeah, how do I ask for it? It's weird, I know tv tv might make it seem like dudes don't have no problem asking for it. Dudes do have a problem because I'm like uh what's going on?
Speaker 2:maybe it's just the directness? I don't know, but I'm just like what's what's going on, what, what aren's just the directness, I don't know, but I'm just like, well, what's what's going on, what, what, what? Aren't you what you having a hard time saying, cause I mean what we doing.
Speaker 1:And I think a lot of it boils down to and, like I said, we're going to get way deeper into this and and maybe we'll do that next episode for people it's like what do you need out of the conversation? Right, right, right. What is what's? Conversation is more than words. It's communicating value. It's communicating what I feel about you. So, for men, if it feels like if I gotta do this, then maybe I'm not really wanted, right, like, maybe some of that fuel and they touch on this in love and respect, right.
Speaker 1:Like filling up the love tank.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:When your love tank is low, it's hard to communicate and say it my love tank is low. Yeah, it's hard yeah.
Speaker 2:And I mean, like what? What has caused it to be low? Because, you know, there's love languages, there's things happening just everyday life, there's health things, there's things happening just everyday life, there's health things, there's all kinds of things that can be affecting that. So, you know, just because you like to snuggle and cuddle and do all of these things, that may not be what's going to fill your spouse's tank.
Speaker 2:So what is it that your spouse like? Your spouse might like gifts. They might like you to, you know, wash your dishes or put the clothes up. So I mean mean that hugging and cuddling and stuff is great for you, but I mean that ain't doing nothing for me. So what are you gonna do for me? So just really being able to balance that and being able to talk about that when you feeling like yo something off? We need to have this conversation and figure out what we need to do so we can be back on the same playing field.
Speaker 1:And keep revisiting it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because I think too you also have to be careful not to have too much silence in your marriage, Because you may be thinking like, oh yeah, everything's good.
Speaker 1:You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:You know, but y'all ain't talked.
Speaker 1:The other person's like I know, they know. I know, they know I'm over here mad or you may not even be mad.
Speaker 2:Maybe there's nothing going on at all. But, something in your mind is like man ain't no friction. Is something up? Is there something brewing? Or now you done created some narrative of something that's happening when it's absolutely nothing. Yeah narrative of something that's happening when it's absolutely nothing. So you know, make sure that you're communicating daily and actually having a conversation with your spouse, to just do daily check-ins. We do daily check-ins.
Speaker 1:Speaking of check-ins, let's wrap it up by giving some of the things that worked for us right. Let's talk about we mentioned earlier the I statements right, stepping in when you're communicating and taking on your part of accountability. Fellas, it's super important for us. As a man, you are Adam of your marriage. You can't hide in the man cave. I know we want to. I know it's in our nature. I know that's what Adam did. But God came and said Adam, where are you? And he's going to do that to us too.
Speaker 1:So we can't be hiding in a man cave. We got to step up and be like all right, how can I lead us out of this? Even if I don't feel like I did all of it, I definitely done some of it. So let's step up and hold ourselves accountable One of the biggest things for men. We got to know that if our wife is uncovered or feels uncovered, that is our responsibility. So you can't just be like, hey, it ain't my fault, I ain't do this, she the one tripping. No, as a man, it's your job to tap in and find out how she feels uncovered. So when you, like you said, if a lot of that silence been going on and we not tapped in, it is our fault. We are the ones that ain't on it. So you do got to step in and take accountability for your part in things, lead things forward, be willing to be the first one and, like you said, tell them about the check-ins. But let's talk about the check-ins again.
Speaker 2:So yeah, we did, you know, early on in our relationship we did check-ins weekly just to kind of see where each other was. But then, once we got married, we decided to do weekly chats in the kitchen where we would, you know, sit and just talk. We called it chatterbox. We would sit and just kind of each person would have their turn.
Speaker 1:And this was on the calendar. Y'all this was scheduled. We had it on the calendar.
Speaker 2:It was scheduled, we knew that it was coming up and we were. You know, that was a set time for us to go into the kitchen, whether we had children there or not, whether we had stuff going on, whether we're cooking, whatever is going on, we talking about what it is we need to talk about, and this is the time where, if it's a pile up of things from the week that we really didn't talk about, maybe we've been holding on to kind of dump it all out there. We allowed that person to say what they needed to say uninterrupted and we would what was that word?
Speaker 2:again Uninterrupted, we would go for about you know however long we needed to go, so sometimes like 10, 15 minutes, sometimes not sometimes not that long, and then we would let the other person say what they needed to say, and then we would just kind of do that back and forth until we felt like we were on a good you know, we were in a good space, and then we would, you know, push on and then go to the next week.
Speaker 2:So Chatterbox was huge for us because it allowed us to feel like, you know, we had a space to dump if we needed to dump, and not get into a chaotic space, but for us to really be able to talk and listen.
Speaker 2:And I think that really helped us to be able to build that confidence in one another to where, if we were in a space of having some type of conflict or we felt bad about a situation, you know we felt that we could. You know I trusted you enough to be able to hear me and what I was saying and not feel like you were just going to be talking over me to kind of get to your points. But it allowed us to really be able to acknowledge what it was that was happening, be able to kind of come up with some type of game plan and really resolve and work through the situation, and it allowed us to both be transparent and accountable to our actions, our thoughts, and to really be able to. You know, try to put some plan, some game plan forward and be accountable to that, so that we can be on the same page in our marriage.
Speaker 1:I think it worked wonders for us, but it ain't always easy either. You know I want to just like we talked about earlier. I think a lot of times you want to run and not deal with things. Right, you don't? You know you got something that needs to be talked about. You know there's an elephant in the room, but you want to run from it. So having a chatterbox session every week with that kind of frequency, it challenges you because, yeah, you can't come in and be like you know what?
Speaker 2:I ain't got nothing this week, babe yeah, yeah, I got nothing, or you gonna throw out some real surface?
Speaker 1:Yeah, ain't nothing wrong with me. So I mean, why don't we just go out to eat more? That's all I'm saying. Right, but what?
Speaker 2:does that mean we can go out and eat more? What You're talking about? We don't have enough date nights. What exactly are you? Trying to say Are you feeling some about us spending more time together? What are we talking about? Let's get into the nitty gritty of it.
Speaker 1:That's exactly what happened with me. You know, it's like after the first couple we had a lot of meat on the bone and then I found myself being like I got nothing this week babe.
Speaker 2:And then the next day you'd be like you did. Why didn't?
Speaker 1:you bring it up. What's up, yeah. So I think it challenges you to grow as a communicator and as a leader in your home and of your life. You really want to keep just letting things go. When you got the opportunity to say it, you know yeah.
Speaker 2:I love you.
Speaker 1:I love you too.
Speaker 2:I mean it's so interesting us talking about this stuff and just to kind of hear how far we've come.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know.
Speaker 2:I mean, you know, and don't get me wrong, we have our share of arguments. It's not like you know, we go years or you know, not many these days, though Not many these days? No, but we have. You know, we've just been able to just have really great conversation, and when we don't agree, our arguments don't last nearly as long as they used to.
Speaker 2:We could just kind of, you know, go into it and we see, oh, this ain't going where it needs to go and we'll separate, and I mean within a couple hours, if that we're coming back to the table, like you know what I'm sorry, let's talk about it.
Speaker 2:And really, you know what I'm sorry, let's talk about it. And really you know ironing things out same day so that we can go to bed with a good conscience. And we're in the same bed Exactly Because listen, that whole thing, don't go to bed angry. We was like whatever.
Speaker 2:I don't want to see your face. But now, no, we have very few of those days and I'm very grateful for us to be able to be in the space that we have been, but it has. It is not been an easy journey for us and I thank God for allowing us to be here and to be able to share some of the things that we've been through, and hopefully you know you guys will give us some feedback on some of the things that you've been through and how you've been able to work through it, and hopefully that can bless someone else who's?
Speaker 1:tuned in um as well yeah, we appreciate y'all for rocking with us. Uh, anybody out there that's, you know, married or want to be married or thinking about being married, just know that communication is a is a key and it ain't no one magic bullet. You know you got to think about who you are as people, but definitely tap in this your support system. If you don't have one, find one. I'm I'm a big proponent of therapy and I know a lot of people mentioned couples therapy, but hey, individual therapy.
Speaker 1:Listen, trust me you coming into it. You could come into your couples therapy with enough baggage to ruin that.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:If you ain't on your game and really thinking about what you got going on, the issues you need to heal. You got to get on that. So, yeah, think about that, man. And you know it's so important in marriage. Marriage is holy matrimony. It's not happy matrimony. We supposed to be making each other better, so it's going to be challenged, right, we balancing each other out. We growing each other. It's going to be growing pains. That's just how it goes, right? We obviously ain't supposed to torture each other and all of that. But you can't be sitting back thinking, oh, this other person's supposed to agree with me 100% and never have anything to say that I don't say. It don't work that way. Right, we balanced out for a reason you know. Like we told one of my homeboys in our husband's class once hey, if you wanted somebody to agree with you that much you could could always marry a dude. They allow you to do that, these days.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, Was that what y'all said? We told them Straight up what.
Speaker 1:Okay, because, as a man, there's just going to be a lot of things that women just don't feel the same way about, and that's cool. That's how it's supposed to be. Y'all are the yin and yang supposed to be. Y'all are the yin and yang. Y'all are balancing each other out. You know, there's plenty of times we talk about a topic and then we don't agree or we have two different stances and it's just like, hmm, interesting right, let's go.
Speaker 2:You know, I think another thing you also have to keep in mind too is that don't keep no secrets, y'all yeah don't.
Speaker 2:Don't do that. You know, don't keep no secrets. Y'all Don't do that. Don't keep no secrets. We talk about everything. We talk about finances, we talk about the children and their schooling. We talk about anything that happens with our blended family. We talk about everything. We communicate everything. So even if, like with my bonus daughter, obviously I'm not her mom, but that doesn't mean that me and my husband aren't having conversations about her as well as having conversations with her mom.
Speaker 2:I'm still in the midst of that conversation. Obviously I'm not in the forefront of what it is that they're doing, but I'm in the midst of the conversation. So I just think it's important that you are aware that communication means just that You're communicating in every aspect. You're not keeping secrets, you're not doing things on the side, you're not trying to. You know, keep things, you know, so nobody kind of finds out. No, no, no, no, no. You are extremely intentional in what it is that you're doing and you are trying to create harmony in your home and have a good alignment, because that's so important, that's so important especially to my fellas.
Speaker 1:I know a lot of fellas grow up and we get taught. You know, we keep people in the need to know basis, specifically the women in our life. That's on a need to know basis, but that's controlling. It's not up to us to determine whether they need to know something. So we got to move from this point of it's not good enough to be honest. You have to be transparent. Honest means the things I'm saying are true, but I can hold back some stuff. Transparent means I can let you see it all. You can see through me and then you can determine what's important to you or not. I think it's so important.
Speaker 1:I always give this one example to the fellas. When we talk about this. Like if I go to work and I have a horrible day, somebody just pissed me off everything go bad. If I come home and I don't tell my wife that I've had this horrible day, everything we do is out of alignment because I'm coming into it with all of this negative energy, all of this pain from what happened to me. So even me not talking about that, we could sit down and watch a movie. We're going to watch two different movies. I'm seeing everything through this lens of what I done been through. Yeah, so I think it's so. That's the transparency is so important, so y'all could be there, not only to support each other, but so that y'all just on the same page yeah, you can lift each other up, yeah because now what if so?
Speaker 1:I see something and it further triggers me, but you don't even know where I'm at.
Speaker 2:Yeah, to get triggered from, and now I'm probably part of the problem. I don't even know. You're okay, man, I was okay.
Speaker 1:What'd I do? So yeah, man, transparency, do those check-ins, reach out All resources. Man, it's just important to try to invest in the union. Try to invest in it. It's no different than any other really valuable thing in your life. To invest in it. It's no different than any other really valuable thing in your life. Invest in it.
Speaker 2:Yes, and make sure that y'all are centered in Christ.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That's the first communicator that y'all need to be in alignment with. So make sure that y'all are centered with Christ and be centered with one another, and you will be amazed at how well that'll help flow into your home and your children.
Speaker 1:Thousand percent. So thanks for rocking with us y'all. Like we said, maybe next week we hit the sex issue. What you think, babe?
Speaker 2:Well, let's chat about it and we'll see.
Speaker 1:Yo, and, by the way, speaking of communication, we do have a production meeting that we have to agree on the topics. Make sure that we prepped. So yeah, we're gonna talk about this at this week's production meeting yes, we will, and see what we're gonna bring, but it might just be the sex one, I don't know y'all gotta tune in and see y'all. Let's see next week, hey thanks for rocking with us right here on the open book podcast thank you all right, we check y'all next time. Peace.