Episode 4: Jax Taylor from "The Valley" and "Vanderpump Rules"

Join therapist Sam and reality TV producer Jenny as they dive into the life of one of Bravo's most notorious figures: Jax Taylor. First introduced in Season 1 of Vanderpump Rules, we've seen Jax evolve from a bachelor to a husband and father on the new show The Valley. But now, with his marriage on the rocks and recent sightings with an "Only Fans" model making headlines, we're unpacking what makes Jax the ultimate reality TV star. 

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Transcript

Unknown: Welcome back to Unhinged and on camera. I'm Jenny. I'm the resident. Reality TV producer. And Sam, I'm here to be the advocate of mental health, but not to diagnose or recommend treatment. Yeah, you know, reference to disclaimer that Sam's has been panicked about and sent like a more explicit version after. Are the lovebirds are going to sue you? I would be honored if Catherine Dennis Calhoun sued us with all the problems she has going on. Maybe like the bigger following. Exactly. So today we are taking a break from our feminist our toxic feminist cycle and doing a guy for the first time. We are going to cover Jax Taylor. You know, we figured when we're switching it up from women, let's go to the most toxic man all the way to the other end of the spectrum. Yeah. And somebody was saying to me, Oh, isn't isn't Sandoval more toxic than Jax? And it's like, technically. But Jax was the OG toxic male. Well, I'm sure we'll get into it, but I think what makes Sandoval, what makes people feel like Sandoval is more toxic is that like he tried to make us believe he was a good guy or Jax, has been villain energy from day one. Number one guy in the group and or like desperation for number one guy in the group energy from day one. And so an interesting thing about him is that his whole schtick is that like, well, I'm a bad guy, I lie, I have all these issues, but I'm honest about it. So doesn't that make it all okay? And as a reality TV producer, for me, it is. I love playing the therapist. It would make him a very tricky client, So we're going to forgo the typical recap that we've been doing only because there's so much with Jax and everything is connected. And he was on Vanderpump Rules for so many seasons. Now he's on the valley. So many things happened off camera. So one of the reasons we picked Jax also is because he recently broke up with his wife, Brittany, who's been his like ride or die through an insane amount of things. And then over the weekend, he was spotted with this like, I guess, influencer Instagram onlyfans model. Yeah, onlyfans model. You know, we do support, you know, Denise Richards women making money any ways that they consent to make money. I know I'm one month away from being on onlyfans with my feet, so no, no judgment. But this woman, Paige, who I think, like her schtick is having like the largest breasts like ever or something. And he was on a date with her and everybody was sort of up in arms, which I don't know. I mean, they've been separated for a while, so I was kind of surprised. But I have to say, full warning, I did recently go to Jack Studio City. It was like right before their separation was announced. And first of all, the place is kind of a vibe. I mean, the vibe being it's trashy and you're there like but I mean. SCHWARTZ And Sandy's takes themselves so seriously and TomTom is the whole Lisa Vanderpump universe. So for Jax to kind of have this diva like backyard place that's connected to another bar so it doesn't even really have its own kitchen or anything. But he did a whole thing. He was trying to do it cheaply and quickly and make the money. Like he was not trying to make a vibe of like like a Lisa Vanderpump where she has a whole sort of like identity and brand that she's got to put into it or Tom and Tom where they like are trying to create some kind of brand. I'm sure that's all falling apart now that, you know, their brand is they were trying to like create something that they were hoping could be branded and could be expanded on. Were they? Jax was just looking to like make some money and it reads that way, but it especially because of where it is in the valley, I feel like it works and he just is making straight profit. But he was there. We showed up sort of late. You know, you have a place where he can be the king of it, where he could be the number one guy like this. I feel like it's going to be a theme, this idea of like needing to be like seen a certain way. And so I think he probably likes having this place that he gets to go and be the mayor. You know, like I get to come and be come in and everyone wants to see me. Everyone's excited to see me. Everyone wants to talk to me. I get to kind of like spout out all of the things that I want to say, whether their truth, lies or whatever they are, which means unwanted opinions. Yeah. Which I mean, he conned me, which I'll get into. But with all these like Bravo restaurants, it's like, does it really have a brand that stands out, on its own? Because I almost feel like, you know, Lisa Vanderpump feels like she does. Oh, she does. But she had a brand before that. But I feel like with these other ones, it's like even with something about her which is open, it's like if I went and Ariana or Katy wasn't there, I'm going to be like deeply unsatisfied. they don't want to just spend $20 on a sandwich. I want to spend $20 on a sandwich and then get to like the Bravolebrity. Yeah, and take a picture. And like, even when there is this kind of a vibe. I mean, it is. But like I said, a word I can support, like as my art historian background and my you like the Nancy Meyers of it all, which I do support the Nancy invasion. But like, I don't know they just whoever picked out the art for that place, I it's a dream. feels a little more sophisticated. I feel just in like the art choices. Yeah, no, of course. But, it also is like a very expensive endeavor for a sandwich shop. But regardless, it's very hard to say if any of these stand on its own. And I will say I give Jax credit for being like, my thing is just it's me. And that's that's it. And the guys at Rocco's are like, We just want you to be there. So, yeah, like, when I go in the door, you're going to get people in the door. Yeah. So when we went, he was like, of course, they're like lounging at the bar, and me and my friend just like, wanted wine and to chat. So, like, we went into our corner and like it was very low bar and had a wine. Yes, we did. It actually had good wine and we had a flat bread and it was pretty good actually. It's got like a sports bar there under like a health advisement right now because of the video of them changing crews on the table. Well, I don't think that it was like an actual like it was going to bring me in. I was like, okay, I could bring my kitty here. That sounds great. Oh, you can definitely bring your kid there. It's like got this outdoor space and whatever. But the night we went, it was like a Saturday night. And also everything in L.A. Goes has a really early advertising. Jax is Studio City. I won't move off of this, but I will say like so yeah, we didn't really make an attempt to talk to him or anything. And then he came up and all the rumors about Britney separating with him was going around, but it hadn't been announced yet. And so he came over and sat down and was like, Hey, girls, we're the only ones there. And like, every table was like, full of crap because everybody had left and no one was busing any of the tables. It was really funny. But anyways, he comes over and the DJ is like playing actually pretty good music, like pop music, but like stuff we knew. And then he was like, Yeah, I just hate this music. Like, I wish they were playing like Third Eye Blind. And I was like, Oh, my energy is coming in. James was right. And then he was like, very. He's very good looking in person, I have to say. I'm telling you, he called me in this conversation. We could barely even hear what he was saying. So we were having to murmur. He is a snake charmer. Oh, yeah. And then so. And then he was talking about his wife and his child and just the vibe was sort of like, Oh, I got to be here because it's my bar, but like I want to go home kind of thing. And we were just like chatting in a corner, not trying to really interact with him. So it was kind of nice that he even came over and like made an effort to, like, be like, Hello, you're clearly here for me, the mayor of my bar. But I was like, after we left, I was like, There's no way he's broken up with Britney. He's talking about her and seems like I got conned. And then as we were leaving, a new crowd came in of sort of young girls and like, sketchy guys. Well, it was very valid as a two year old women. He didn't want you to know he was available, but then the young girls come in. Well, I don't. Well, it was funny, because all these like all these sort of young girls start coming in and these older guys who are kind of like Italian as like Jersey kind of vibes, start rolling in. And I looked at him as we were leaving and I was like, Good luck. And he was like, Oh, God, don't even get me started. And meanwhile to them, he's like, My wife. Who? My child who? I don't know, like, okay. So we've got to get into all of it because I don't know. I do think there's an aspect of Jack's who wants to live a very traditional life, and I don't know where he stands right now. This is really interesting. So I want to go way, way back really quick. I know we're not getting the whole history, but I think the first thing to mention about jocks is similar to lore, although, like Jack's is not his real name. Oh yeah. It's just I think that's like the first place to start. It's like he's. Jack Taylor is a made up character, or this is somebody he made up for himself to be. And that's kind of where we meet him. It's like he is a person who wants to be someone he's not And I feel like this is a streamline we see that is connected to the lies of it all. And where he can't seem to be in the truth of something is he wants to create this extreme of his life, of himself, of his experiences that is way more exciting, way more thrilling, way more interesting than I think like he really is. And that like life really is, especially this idea of, like, married life with children. Yeah. And I mean, it's funny that he got cast on House of Villains because, you know, I haven't watched it, but I know New York was like a huge, you know, fan favorite on that show. And I loved New York like her show from when she was on with Flavor Flav. So I watch outside of Bravo. Yeah. I mean, that was I started on the trashy VH one shows, so I'm a fan. But yeah, it's funny because like he is, he's been playing this villain character since season one. I think season one, he was essentially being himself. But I think after season one, he realized, this is my character and I'm going to play this throughout all of PR and oh my gosh, all I can think about is that image of that one season where he was like allegedly coke bloat and he just looked like Wolverine And remember that season he was doing too many supplements or whatever, and then he had like a, like breast cancer. Yeah, like that was breast cancer. And then Stacie was like, I'm not feeling sorry for you, for your fake breast cancer. Well, it's just, like, interesting. Like, I was I before we started today, I wanted to, like, look up sort of like a list of, lies that we've, like, debunked from Jack. So, yeah, to make a list. a lot of them are around, like, cheating and or relationship stuff. But apparently he also lied about being like some like high level hockey player in college or something. And then he also lied about like being in the Navy. I guess he was in the Navy for like a month, but he said he was in there for a bunch of years. Like there's all these articles and then we go like, apparently he lied about sleeping with Lindsay Lohan. You know, there's all the stealing, lying. And then more recently, there's this lie about Britney's stroke that he said on the house, the villains, where he made it seem like she had this like big stroke. And that wasn't really the truth. And I it feels to me from like a. More like psychoanalytic standpoint that these lies are not meant to necessarily be harmful, but they're meant for him to feel like they're all about his ego and him wanting to like. I don't think his intention is to hurt anyone. I think his intention is to be more interesting and exciting than his life actually is. Oh yeah, totally. Because I was going to say, like all the lies, he quickly admits to them. So what is the psychology behind that? Like, what is the point in lying about sleeping with Kristin? Or I mean, even the smaller things, the ones that he knows he can't get away with or the ones that he thinks he's going to benefit from, like admitting the Christian thing he saw with Stassi that was going to get him forgiveness for the bad cop to this that I'm going to look like the good guy. And I could put all the blame on Kristin. I mean, the stroke, like apparently on one of the podcasts, I don't remember. I mean, everyone's commenting on this breakup with him and Britney. But I think it was Janet was saying that when he lied about the stroke the stroke thing on House of Villains, all these people were worried and concerned about Britney. And that was sort of a breaking point for Britney, where she was like, I'm really sick of like defending his lies. And this now involves me. And like, what? Like, why do you need to say that? Which I thought was interesting because I mean, Britney knows and I get so clear why he needs to say it's interesting that she's got such blinders on to it to like. And she must not she must be aware because I think she feels she benefits from his ego and like his big like I think this is where the snake charmer comes in. He is big, he's exciting. He's got this energy that, brings people in and attracts people to him. And I think that's why we like loved his energy on BPR. And then when he left it was like, you know, and then him and Scotty was like a bunch of like the big people left. But I think especially Jax, there was this feeling of like one of the people who really brings it and brings it, and it feels so natural for him to bring. It is now gone. I wonder how much, like, insecurity plays into all the lies, too, because I almost think, like, if he leaned into what he is, which is very charismatic, snake charmer, he brings people in even like when he leans into being a reality star. People love him. And I'm just like, Oh, all the lies just feel like from insecurity. He's talked about that and I think other people have talked about that. He's just a very insecure person. But it's like if he just leaned into who he was, he has so many characteristics that would be successful in so many different ways. So like why? Yes. And it would not be as exciting. He would not get the same level of attention. It wouldn't like feed his ego in the same way. Like, yes, there's an insecurity there, but there's also this huge ego that needs to be fed. I feel like he's definitely like this ego feeding sense or I think he's also like a very much like a sensory seeker. Like he wants all this sensory input that he gets from, like, people being like, Whoa. Like what? What's going on? We don't know what's going to happen with this guy like that. It's such I think that's such an excitement to him Like, I don't think he can sit with himself even. Oh, yeah. Like when we do that, when I was reading over that, like, sociopath and I don't want to diagnose him as a sociopath because I just, I don't know. He definitely has some interesting personality traits that are not of like a normal personality. I love interesting personality traits. It's a great description. Well, I think they are. Well, I think that all reality stars have to have some sort of like outside of the baseline sort of personality spectrum. Like, you have to have a bigger personality and therefore you are going to move into some of the traits that might show up in different personality disorders. But like we all have traits of different personality disorders. It's only disorder when it creates dysfunction in your life. Hmm. I'm not the one to decide that. Oh, but one of the questions was, are you bored often? And he's like, Yes, I get bored a lot. And so it just makes me think that like there's this part of him that, like, daily life is really boring, and when he lies, he creates something interesting and exciting for himself. He also answers with another one that's like, Do you feel justified in doing whatever it takes to, like, get whatever you can to get away with, to succeed? Like something like you can do whatever as long as it's in the name of success. And he's like, Yes. Look, I feel totally justified just doing whatever I need to do in order to, like, make things interesting. And I think that's interesting with this New Valley thing, because I think there's a lot of pressure on him and Kristin to make it interesting. And it makes me think how much he was willing to throw his marriage, his family and his relationship on the fire in order to keep the show going. In order to make the show interesting. Oh, definitely. Because, I mean, even some of the storylines that you see Bravo sort of struggling to address or edit around And I honestly sort of check out, but I know like as a production person or a post person, like what was happening behind the scenes and a lot of that was around the stuff about Michelle supposedly saying racist comments or whatever they were saying Michelle was saying about being Republican That whole storyline and then the whole storyline about Michelle cheating on Jesse and like what was told and who was told The Who. And there's been a lot of memes being shared of like Kristen saying, Well, Jack told me and I told this and this and that and the game of telephone and then Jack sort of being messy and being like, Oh, I just like gossip. And this is. And then people like when Jack was like, I just like gossip, like, just admit to it. But I don't think he just likes gossip. I do think his intention behind it his intention was to create drama for the show, for sure. And not only that, but also to deflect from himself. Because I think as much as he's willing to throw his relationship on the fire, he will also be happy at a point like to be the one who points the gun at somebody else in order to like, not have to, like, show parts of his true self. Oh, yeah, definitely. And I think with Britney, that last episode that just aired of Valley, where he is with the guys at this guy's dinner and Jesse has come to Jesus, Jack's like, I think your wife is going to leave you. And he's like, No, we're never getting a divorce. That's not something we believe in. Meanwhile, Britney's going around behind his back and telling everyone she wants a divorce. So or at least she told Janet so. And then she leaves him. So he was very like unaware of how serious this was. But there is an aspect of him. It's funny that the board aspect because he really wants to have a traditional life. I think he thinks that's what he's supposed to have exact order to be like a full person. Oh yeah. He's always touting. I'm a husband. I have a kid. Like, I'm an adult. And a part of me does feel like he's not been cheating on Britney. But maybe there's something else going on there. But I. It's a little hard to believe that. Yeah. Not had sex in that long because I do think there is like big thrills and validation he gets from sex. So it's just hard to I mean, I can't say because I'm not in his personal life, it's just very hard to believe. And with this bar being open and spending time there, like one of the reasons like a bar I think can be thrilling for men is, is it is a place where you can like throw your inhibition away and they're single women who are going to come. So it's maybe I wouldn't say he's a sex addict. For me, it feels like it's exactly what you're saying that thrills. But also, I just don't think he's a monogamous person. Like recently, someone was resharing though. Like, I guess you can find on Reddit the recording of what Jack's made with Faith. I can't remember which season it was, but basically he cheated on Britney with this girl Faith, who also worked at Sur, and Britney knew her. So again, thrills. And then I think it was like at a house that Faith was watching an old lady like care, home attendant or old woman, and they had sex while the old woman was asleep. And the same was it in the same room. I remember it being the same, but I could also see that being like a story they put out that it was a the same room that it was in. But it like that's a more interesting, crazy story. I mean, I pray for that woman that wasn't in the same room, but I feel like that's what the story they were saying was. But yeah, so he records I guess I don't even understand how this all would it he recorded it. I feel like she recorded it. Why would he record it. That seems like God recorded it and sent it to Ariana and that's. How do you like it? I there's what we do in an hour. I can't remember. Yeah, we should have rewatched it, but I think they got out there. Yeah, I have to imagine Faith gave it to someone, but it was all very murky, and I think that was part of it. And they couldn't share the audio. So someone on Reddit like revealed like what was said because it couldn't. How did they get the audio? They probably got it from someone who was on set, who heard it or I mean, most of the leaks on these shows, like I have to say 99% are the stars of the show I mean, the stars leak most of the stuff because production signs like ironclad NDAs. And, you know, you have to be really careful and you don't want to lose your career over, you know, revealing some hot gossip. And then the other 1% is Bravo, because sometimes Bravo leaks things because they want to see what the audience reactions to things are. So, but anyways, so the transcript basically says that, you know, him and Faith were talking about how great their sex was or whatever. And Jax is like, I haven't had sex in so long with Britney. Also, there's something to go into. Like Schwartz, Jax and Sandoval all seem to be in, like, sexist relationships and like, somehow fine with that for a really long time. And that seems wild since they are, you know. Anyways, so then Jax was saying that, you know, he is bored with his sex with Britney and it's nothing against her. He just gets bored. He doesn't like being in this, like, monogamous relationship, but back to being bored, right? Like he does that he is a thrill seeker. He needs like it's like that ID like I don't know if, you know, like the ID the ego and the super ego like it is where all of our like drive and excitement and like he only moves from the it and I think he wants to move from these other parts, but he just like can't help but fulfill that like instinctual drive to like, just feel something and like a relationship is boring. Having it can be boring having sex with the same person all the time, Yeah. And so he says that he has been wanting to have threesomes, essentially, with Britney. And I, you know, faith is like, oh, she would she be open to that? And she's almost saying, like, I would do that with Britney. But then he's like, well, Britney was open to it and was going to do threesomes and was whatever. And then Katie, they were living down the hall from Katie. And then she told Katie, I roll as he's going to blame it all on Katie because he because in truth, like if you're going to your girlfriend to be like, oh, my boyfriend wants to like do a threesome, I'm not sure. Or if your friend has so much influence to change your mind about it, that means you didn't want to do it that much to begin with. Yeah, and I think Britney does please Jax. In a lot of ways, that hurts herself I think because she's southern and I could do a doing a whole thing on Britney might be interesting I think there's something in like a southern mentality that's still very entrenched in patriarchy. And I think she's been trained like as a woman, you please your men, you do what you will for your man, whether you want it or not. And like, you see that with Britney from the moment we meet her, that she's constantly apologizing for him, constantly kind of like cowering to him. And the one time she does it is when she finds out about this affair and, like, kind of breaks up with him for, you know, a split episode. Yeah. And I mean, I think, too, like, she doesn't see it as cowering. It's more of that Southern mentality of, like, stand by your man. Like, I'm going to be his rock. I'm going to. And I think she's seeing now in the valley like, oh, my gosh, it's destroying me physically to be this person that I had, whatever probably. Did they say what her stroke was or like? It wasn't a stroke, right? regardless, whatever it was, was not what he said it was. And it just made her really upset. But. I mean, again, he lies about everything. So I'm surprised that one broker, but I think maybe it broke her because it was about her and she didn't have control over what he said. But yeah, I mean, I just think he's not a monogamous person. I mean, when he was at Stassi, he cheated with a girl in Vegas when, you know, he slept with Kristen on the couch while Sandoval slept and they watched drive. I mean, but again, we're describing all these situations that are so extreme because he wants the thrill of it, you know, like even him fighting Stacey's new boyfriend, Frank, and not season one in Vegas. I mean, he sets these scenarios up so that he can get something out of it and. Yeah. I just think, you know, being in a monogamous relationship with a child with Britney is the perfect picture. But there's no way he's happy with that because it's settled and it's, you know, stable and he's not, you know, doing these crazy things that he was doing in the past. And like, how interesting is that? Especially like he is driven to be on TV. I think I think there's a lot of him that wants to be famous, wants to be seen. And how interesting is it to watch a married couple with a kid? I'm a married person with a kid and my life is boring. Like this is the most interesting part of my life. It would not be good TV to watch me going to the playground to watch, you know, like it. Like people wouldn't be excited to watch. It's not going to get ratings. Yeah, which is interesting because like everyone in the valley has kids and they are bringing more insanity then Vanderpump Rules or something, house or any like that. Also breaking up like their marriage isn't working. I guess we do like Danny and me. They're like a beautiful and I guess you need but you need that balance. Like, they're not ever going to be the leaders of the show because they are going to be a little bit too boring. If they were like the main characters, they just bring a balance to all. The toxicity is what happens. Oh yeah. So I know Jax has gone to therapy, so I guess Britney, in the ultimatums that she sort of gave him was like, you should go to therapy. And his argument for why he hasn't been in therapy is because he had a therapist that he trusted and that therapist went to one of, say, Australia, but he was she was at some bar or maybe he I'm not sure if it was a you know, I think it was a woman wasn't the one we saw them in a therapy session. No. Maybe it was that woman. I don't think he explicitly said, but basically he was saying that this person went around and this was our march. We had season one or season two. He had one therapist and then I think he had a different therapist later. So it's interesting that he's saying that like whatever this there pre early on therapist created a huge which is like so valid and yes therapists like in that story so apparently this therapist was at a bar and like revealing all this stuff about Jax being a client and things about him. But yeah, go on. Yeah. Just as like a therapist, I really like validate that it is one. It's really hard to be in therapy to begin with for I think a lot of people. And then to have an experience where you feel like your and we've seen Jackson therapy sessions on TV. I don't know if he's different. What if he does them outside of TV where he's like blatantly lying to the therapist? And it seems like the therapist knows and probably isn't calling it out because as a therapist you wouldn't necessarily do that early on in treatment. But I could understand where that would make it really hard for him to trust therapists and to feel safe and to like. Probably part of the reason why he's an honest is because he had this huge rupture with the therapist. And so, like for him, there's no safety in really being vulnerable. I also have a lot of thoughts about like therapy sessions being shown on TV and like how like that defeats the purpose of like, like this set the evidence based part of like how therapy is set up. Like there is, you know, it's been shown in evidence. Part of what makes therapy effective is a client's ability to go to vulnerable places, knowing that this is like a safe, private, held space. And as soon as you're filming it, it's not that anymore. And so, so and that must be why a lot of times, instead of seeing like licensed therapists, we see a lot of like life coaches and like sort of not necessarily certified people who are using evidence based techniques because filming it kind of goes automatically against that, which, to be honest, from a production standpoint, I actually think a life coach is better because a therapist is there to release support you. And it's a long term process and I feel like a life coach is more comes in and says I mean I remember Craig had a life coach when he was trying to build is like below and buyer they come in and say these are the things you need to do to be successful and like do them or not and like have some accountability. And from a TV, TV perspective, also, you know, having a short shooting window, those are the kind of goals you want to set up for what you're going to watch for that season. So just from like a production standpoint, a life coach is better to me, but I do think just seeing someone work on themselves is just helpful, whether it's therapy, life coach or whatever. It gives some. Idea into the cycle about normalizing therapy to like. Yeah. One of the benefits of it is when we see these like famous people or these people that we admire or are fascinated by going to therapy and taking those risks, I think that's that's really empowering for people then to like be like, okay, it's not normal for me to go get therapy or get a life coach or whatever and. Yeah. I think that's a helpful thing. Yeah. I think there should be more talk about like how. I don't know just because I think it is different. And even I imagine a therapist going on to one of these shows is approaching their therapy because they're being like, I remember when I was doing training at the Akerman Institute for the Family and Family and Couples Therapy. You were filmed in a two way mirror and you were filmed and you were being watched as you're training with a couple of and you're giving therapy. And it's hard. Like I could feel how I was showing up a little different than I would when I'm not being watched by a bunch of other people or being filmed And so there's just no way to not show up different in those ways. Yeah, totally. I can imagine. And I think Austin had a therapist this season on Southern Charm, and though I didn't think it really changed him at all, it at least gave him a space to be show again. Like he's working on himself and there's some kind of accountability. And he's thinking about these things, even though, I mean, it really didn't change. I mean, he did his same Muppet mouth routine that he does every season, but he had some therapy as a long term process, somewhat change and one or two sessions. And that's also something that maybe should be said, because I feel like sometimes you can see these one time therapy things and like be like, Oh, look, there they did therapy. They took some accountability. They're better. And that's not how therapy works. It is a longer term experience that takes time for you to see change or to see progress. Yeah, and I think the only other thing we ever saw from him is having that weird Reiki healer who is sort of is very L.A.. And, you know, Sandoval took a page out of his book this season when he went to all his scream therapy to do it. Like, where was the first like, well, this person on Bravo, because I feel like now it's like a female. Oh, they love a sound bath. Yeah, love a sound kind of like healer or. Right. Like I feel like everyone has had a had experience with some healer. I've worked on so many shows it sound bats are healers or and from a production standpoint it's such a it's such an easy way to get. I mean, I think, um, Beverly Hills, they had a, they had that ego woman who came in and it was such a good way of repairing, essentially, you know, the friendships and getting everyone to be vulnerable. So it's almost like a it's a trek, but at this point it's kind of played out But yeah, I think he was one of the early ones to have this like Reiki healer, and it was very culturally L.A. And I think that helped. The early seasons of Vanderpump Rules does a really good job of putting you in L.A. of these young people who are trying to, you know, be actors and models. And I think showing him going to a reggae healer and thinking that's going to fix him, I don't. Cheating on his girlfriends was wild. And also I think he was kind of had a thing for the regular. Right? Well, he was definitely like lying to impress. Like, I read some article because I didn't watch it back. That was like Jack says to the Reiki healer, I'm used to putting everyone else first and like making himself to be something that this like he is such a chameleon shapeshifter who can kind of like put on a little bit of like an identity to try to like bring, draw people in. And it works like the snake charmer. It works really well. Well, yeah. And so getting into like his business life, which we've touched on with the Jack Studio City, you know, it's funny because he sets up that he has these partners are sort of driving it. They have this bar that's attached. So they didn't really need to build the kitchen. They didn't need to get permits. They didn't need to get a liquor license because they're basically just making Jack's Studio City an extension of their other bar, which is Rocco's, which even if you go there, it's they have a sign now and it's more set up, but it's like two bars together, which Jacks is is a separate bar. But like when you order food, it comes from the other kitchen and they have like they don't have as many people working there because they sort of have the same staff for both, which on the part helps with like licensing and make everything so much faster. Yeah. And basically Jack said he put $0 into it and got the best deal ever. And I actually think the owners got a really good deal too, because they had this empty space. They weren't doing anything where they brand it with jacks and now it's full every night, which in L.A. is tough to get people to even leave their house. So I think it was a success. But then he's like very stressed about it, even though it seems like he's essentially doing nothing and he tells Britney, I'm not going to. You know, I'm not ready to have another kid right now. And I actually think when we've talked about it, Summer House with Carl and Lindsay. When she said the cocaine Carl, we're like, that's when the relationship ended. I feel like when Jack said to Britney, I'm not ready to have another kid, that's when the relationship ended, because she really the weight of everything she's been dealing with with him. And then to hear the only thing she cares about, which is having another kid is being taken away from her. She was over it at that point because ever since that conversation, all the conversations she's had is I would get divorced. I would leave him. You see her narrative about him change because he's no longer willing to kind of meet his end of the bargain. Like it feels like a little bit of like a. Like our plan or whatever you call it, like a an agreement. They have that like I'll back you and do all this, but like you're going to give me what I want, which is a home and children. Yeah. And that was the part of the faith recording that I guess Britney got so upset about, which was he was like, I don't even want to get married or have kids or do any of those things. And that set Britney off, and then he lost his dad and that really changed things for him. But like, was that just grief? I'm sure it was. I mean, like, I didn't think into it. Like, I don't think he really changed. And I think Britney saw a change in him, a grief response in him, in which he was like, Oh, shit. Like, I just lost this very important person to me. And this was the life they had. So this is what I should want and this is what I should do to, like, almost memorialize my dad. I need to, like, do these things. Yeah, I'm. Britney was, you know, the perfect person for him. I mean, I still think she is the perfect person for her because she's willing to put up with so much. Well, not only that, I don't know. I think she's going for it. I think she is her inner feminine. It's coming out. Her inner feminist is coming out. Oh, yeah. She's like, I'm not putting up with this. But even him kind of being stressed about business. I know he was on it. He loaned Rande a bunch of money and has been on this mission to get the money back. And then you also see some other like business ventures, things to do left. Well, when he left or when he did he leave or did he get fired? Basically when he got fired, that must have been a big hit to their finding. Like that's their both of their incomes. And Britney talks about how basically when that happened, she became the breadwinner because they know she got that huge weightwatchers deal. And I think that carried them because she has a conversation with Sheena on Vanderpump Rules, where she talks about how and how insecure that must have made Jax to like have his woman. And he is like he does live in a patriarchal like like his whole belief system is based on patriarchy. You hear how he talks about women and about other women, like how he speaks about Katie, that he doesn't think women have value and that their only value is to serve men. And you see it in his relationship with Britney, even when he's talking to Jesse, where they at the dinner where he's like, she'll never leave me She'll never like almost like she's his property. There's this antiquated idea that, like, women are property and to be owned and to be controlled. And so to have your woman be the breadwinner must have like tore apart his male ego, which, I mean, this is why I don't think him having a female therapist is going to help him. Honestly, I do not. And that's why I almost think like my husband's been on this whole Tony Robbins kick. And I do think life coaches are, you know, helpful in a totally different way than therapists. I don't think they really equate. He needs a life coach, though. Well, life is okay. I think what he needs is insight. He is such little like, yes, he can take this sort of superficial accountability of like, I did this or I did that. Yeah, there isn't he is not attuned to the impact he has on other people, but even more on himself. But that's why he does. And it went to like a Tony Robbins esque program, like where they break down. What are your your belief systems? What are your you know, the reasons for why you do certain things. And, you know, what are your drives? Because I think he is business oriented in a way, but he doesn't know how to do it. I don't think he's business oriented at all. See, I think he would be happy to not. I think he is ego oriented. He only wants to do businesses that serve his ego. even with the bar, like he doesn't care about creating something that is his. He cares about creating something that serves his ego, which is why I think he likes having this. Jax He can go and be the mayor and, like, show up. Like, I don't. I disagree. I think if you didn't have to have a business, he'd be fine with it. He's, like, happy to be free. I like I think he was happy to be a reality star before or I agree with this. But what I'm saying is, like he has that snake charmer ability, he has that charisma. If he owned, if he leaned into those skills, what he could do with that, I'm not I do think everything he does is driven by his ego right now. But I think if he honed what his natural abilities are, he could do way more. If it's like the same thing with Jesse, like when he went to that, you know, ayahuasca retreat or whatever, he went to where he did the mushrooms or whatever. And then he came back all relaxed. But I think change him. He came back and then like the next day, he's the same guy. Oh, I agree. I mean, I'm just saying they have the same problem of like they need to break their ego and when they break their ego, the abilities that they have to be successful, because I think Jesse is very successful in real estate and really good at what he does. And I think Jackson is not even close to like tapping. Into that ability. But I'm saying if he could, he could be because he called me. I was all for Studio City. I believed everything he was telling me. I should been back. I have not been back. You need to come to L.A. and we need to go. I would like to do a Vanderpump tour. We got to do the whole war. We'll hit something about her Will. Hit Jax. Do we go to Schwartz and Sandy? I don't know. I think we could hit it again. I mean, I. I'm afraid of it. I feel like it's got this toxic energy that, like, ruins, lives, ruins lives, ruins, friendships, so. But, yeah, I mean, I think I'm not disagreeing with you, basically, is what I'm saying. I'm just saying that maybe he could like what I was going to say about Kyle was, you know, we say every season on Summer House, he freaks out about Loverboy and how much pressure he's under. And you made a good point. You're like, well, maybe you're not set out to do this. Like, maybe you are not good at this. And I do think I could have that business. You could just hire people to help him like this is his thing is he wants to be the sole person and then he's like, that's too much for me as the sole person, which I think people are allowed to vent and maybe that it is an unfair expectation. But I know Paige and Ciara had said something to him like, if you're not making successful, why don't you just like let it go? And he was like so offended by it. And it does take years to build a business like this. So I understand why he was offended because they said it so callously. But also it's like I think what Kyle doesn't get or in general people don't get is like to be a CEO of a company like that, you know, and that kind of stress and pressure. Yeah, it's really important that you can manage those things and you can handle those things. And that is not just you get to act however you want because now you have 30 employees, like now 30 people are going to come and complain to you. You have the you have to worry about their families and their paychecks and you have to you have to manage that. And I think there are ways through, you know, coaching programs or whatever, I mean, or therapists where you help to, like, hone those personality traits. Because I don't think some people are maybe, you know, born able to handle those pressures more than other people. I think that stuff is too boring for Jax. Like, I think that's stressful in one way, but it's also very monotonous. And being a CEO is not it's not like glamorous or exciting. Like, I don't think you would actually enjoy that. I think it would be boring to him and he'd sabotage it because it's boring similar to how he's doing his marriage and his family. And like I actually don't think he there's some like real deep work he needs to do around like what it means to not like if life is not interesting and I don't, I don't know. I think he's just always going to be this way because I think he's always going to be seeking that novelty and that stimuli. Yeah. And it's interesting, too, because he was off the show for a while and it seemed to me that he was still doing a lot of his same Jax routines, but it also seemed like him and Britney were in a better place. It seemed like maybe he was in a little better place, which is kind of surprising. So he is, maybe. Or we just didn't hear about it. For me, I feel like he's at a fork in the road. Like he's he's a he is a professional reality star and he's really good at it. And is that where this brings us? I think to our final. Yeah, exactly. It'll be good for TV. Is TV good for him? I kind of want to start with is TV good for him? Because what's coming up for me is a similar thing too with Lindsay, where I think being on TV reinforces a lot of some of his like. You go even narcissistic traits like I think there's like a reinforcement because he does get like good ratings like he brings something like that gossip queen that right. Like his ability to drive drama and drive interesting things that are like they may be villainous, they may be kind of gross if you really live them through life, but like they do give you a world to kind of escape to. Yeah. And just because you mentioned Lindsay Hubbard, we did an episode on our our premiere. Please listen. Oh, I'll check it out. But she did an interview with Glamor magazine, and I had to read it. And she was saying, I'm basically a reality TV lifer. I would do Summer House till I'm 100 and then said, you know, I was doing my PR firm. But then I just decided to really lean into being Lindsay from Summer House. And she made that house in Nashville that was all about being on Summer House, Hub House. And I found that really interesting and weird because, you know, even when she was with Carl, she was like, Let's have babies, let's do this. And I'm like, How if your plan was to be on Summer House forever, but then your other plan was to have babies and get married. These things you're not going to summer house with a newborn like this didn't make sense to me and I kind of feel the same way about Jax is like he and him and Britney were almost producers of the Valley. I think they brought on all the the cast and helped, you know, curate the show in a way. And I think he took a lot of pride in that. But yeah, I mean, he is a professional reality star. You know, his boredom and his ego plays into trying to make good like these two questions kind of go in the same like, no, it's not good for him, but it makes really good TV because I do think it reinforces for him this idea that like I can take this superficial accountability and I get I do get rewarded for it because people are like, I think he gets rewarded in that people hold really low expectations for him to like do anything good. So when he does bad, no one is like surprised or shocked like like Sandoval like work. Like, oh, we thought you were like, different. And so, like, there's this low bar where it's like, okay, no one expects me to do anything good. And when I do bad shit, like, it's interesting and people want to watch it and I can just cop to and be like, Yeah, I cheated. Yeah, I did this. And people will be like, okay, well at least he was honest. He move story forward. The worst is when someone's lying and then they'll just keep lying about it and never tell the truth because the story doesn't move forward. Like one thing that Jax does is he owns it, so then we can address it, and then he does something else and and that's great for reality TV And I mean, Britney has been a good partner to him in playing this reality TV game, especially now in the Valley. But I want to say something psychotic that you're going to really have a reaction to. What if what if Jax was with. Someone like or was with Kristen. I mean, I think people are saying, no, I don't think that's psychotic. I think everyone is like Chris. I don't think it would ever work because I think they're, like, too psychotic that they'd murder. Like, I just don't think it would work. I think he needs someone like Britney who allows him like Kristen wouldn't allow him to be him and she wouldn't allow we see it already and how like critical they are of each other and how they're often like DAX is telling Kristen how to live life. Kristen is telling Jax how like he should be. Like they wouldn't he need someone who is like, yes, ma'am. But I'm saying someone who would create constant chaos in his life to keep them entertained. I think that's why they're still friends for whatever. I mean, I guess she's probably more friends with Britney than him, and it's like a package deal. But I do think they also have probably some agreement that like our relationship, our friendship is mutually beneficial in that like it keeps us on this TV show and people love our toxicity. Yeah. And so I wonder if he was I mean, he's saying now this girl, Paige, that he was on a date with, it was something else. And just wait and see which one we were saying. Whenever a Bravo man says wait and see, it's all going to make sense. And now we're seeing it. And now it doesn't make sense. Never makes sense. It's always far worse than what you thought. I think he was doing the same thing when Britney left him. He was like, Just wait and see. And then it was like, No, she fucking hates you. She did a whole article about how she's leaving this tabloid. We talked about this a little when it was playing out in the in that one scene on the Valley recently where Jax is like going at Britney about drinking and her stomach issues. Like there's something underneath that that like his approach is abusive and problematic, but his concern underlying it is very real and valid. Like your wife says, she you've been to the doctor with her around these stomach issues and the doctor saying don't drink. And then she continues to drink. Like I sort of understand his frustration to an extent. Definitely don't support his approach and think it's like I can understand why she wants to leave him and not being with someone who treats her in those ways. But the concern feels there's some validity underlying the concern. Oh, yeah. And I mean, also, you have to imagine she's drinking because she's miserable in her life with Jax, which everyone just like outwardly says, including Jax. Jax is like she's married to me, so of course she needs to, like, drink. And I think she wants to have fun because she comes home and is miserable. But he's like your mother. And I mean, yeah, go back to that depleted roles. Like he's like, you're the mother and wife and so you stay home and make house and I get to go out and party and have fun and do whatever I want. I mean, he like so many men on Bravo, it's like they have a good point and then they ruin it with, you know, how they handle it and how they address it. I mean, going back to Sandoval, Schwartz and Jax living in these sexless relationships, I don't think anyone really understood Sandoval and Ariana being together as long as they were and not having any sex. But like Sandoval could have just addressed that and broken up with her at any point and not cheated on her with her best friend. I think Schwartz is the only one who maybe, like, has, like, a low sex drive. Yeah, I do get the sense that he because even when he talks about missing Katie, it's like he's like, I love just like being in bed and scrolling, like the problem in their relationship with sex, even though it seemed like they weren't having a lot of sex. Yeah, but I mean, like, that's the core issue. Yeah. But for the men and women of Vanderpump Rules, like being in a long term relationship and not having like almost any sex and none of them thought that was an issue. I find very interesting and bizarre because whenever I'm doing relationship therapy, like one of the first things I'm talking about is like, are you guys having sex? Because if you're not like, what's going on? Because that is an important thing that differentiates like romantic relationships from friendships. It is something that gives you a moment to be intimate connect. There is something like validating about sex that's important to each partner. And like I want to know, like sometimes I love doing a couple of sexual sessions because you really get to go into people's sex lives. And it's very interesting to see like the different ways people experience sex in their sex lives. And I think it speaks to different needs. And even in the show, we see Britney being like, I want to feel wanted. And when you reject me and don't want to sex with me, I don't feel like you want me. And I imagine for her, like having children, it is much easier for her to take his personality when she feels like he wants her. Oh, yeah. And she's getting all this plastic surgery and she openly admits she doesn't think he's attracted to her. And I mean, from everything he's saying. It doesn't seem like he is attracted to her. Yeah. And even like when you see them, like you don't feel any attraction between them. Like, I don't. Yeah, I don't. I feel that she's so attracted to him. Well, and it's killing her confidence and her spirit. I mean, that's why she was like, I had to leave because I was losing my sparkle. He. She just wanted a date night. That's all she wanted was kind of like losing her sparkle. I feel that. And all the plastic surgery, like, it makes me think if, you know, if we were doing, like, it'd be good for her. I would be like, I feel like it is really affecting her self-esteem in a way that, like, maybe wouldn't be if she was never a reality show. Like, I wonder if she would have never gotten any plastic surgery in her life if she never showed up on a show like this where she was being scrutinized for how she looked. And that would've had such high value and currency, and probably a pressure from him like he has this life now where there's young women and like, I don't, you know, I and I don't even know what he says to her. He doesn't say it on camera, which I think is, I guess, good. But I can imagine that behind closed doors there's something being said about her weight Oh, yeah. And I remember there was a season where she was had gained a bunch of weight and they had her working out and stuff Yeah. And then also. Yeah, when he slept with faith, there was a whole thing of her just being lazy. Um, a lot of the men in Vanderpump Rules love to accuse their wives of being well, again, I think they're all, like, antiquated and patriarchal and have this idea of, like, who women are and should be. And if the woman isn't, like, keeping how she's lazy, or at least also I think the way that they perceive keeping house should be. Yeah, but also it's like they're lazy because they're depressed because they're in a horrible relationship. Well, you know, I don't want to diagnose. I'm not a therapist, so I can diagnose that. You know, Kate, Katie and her relationship with Schwartz was depressing name that they're depressed, like. Yes. Yeah. And Ariana talked about depression Arianna's an interesting one. Just because her house is such a mess even after Sandoval, when she's, like, busy and got a lot going on and there's something interesting happening there. But another time. Yeah. So I don't know his future. I mean, I want to keep watching the Valley. I hate to say it because I feel like I shouldn't be feeding it, but like I when they announced the Valley, I was like, Oh, and as I'm watching, I'm like, Oh, yes, because he owns it. Like, I hate to sound like Lisa Rinna and I'm not trying to be in my life, so I'm like that out of your. Lisa Rinna okay. So I mean, he does like he says, I like to be a gossip queen. I like to do this, that and the other thing, he's fascinating and I hope, like, we get to see like Britney get in power because that could be like the best revenge. And I think Britney is going to get her revenge because I know, like even on their podcast, Jax was like, we put together the cast of The Valley and blah, blah, blah. And then Britney was like or he was claiming like he did. And then Britney was like, No, I did. We did. But I wonder how many of. Those people want to hang out with this, Jack, that big thing. Yeah. I mean, I think Britney is like, you don't realize how much of all of this is, how much I've kept your life together, like people in your life. And I'm fascinated to watch Jack's have to also deal with that, like how, you know, how he navigates on his own. Because I think Britney has been his backbone. And so and she still has backbone cause she's like, I'm still going to do the pot. I'm still going to help you at the bar. I'm still going to do. So when she steps away and learned some boundaries in that, like, how is Jack's going to react? Yeah, I'm I'm in for watching him in the valley for to easily Ted Morse's as I am all the couples I saw this like meme or something that was saying every one of the valleys a villain and I kind of feel that way but it's fun to watch our known Dan in me are there like the sweet Christian couple? Like they're very sweet and bring a little bit of balance to everything. I also think. What's the what's the the other girl's name who has a female partner or. I don't remember. We don't get enough of her. But I really like her. I want more of her. Yeah. You know, they they definitely her. And then Zach have kind of played these, like, background roles or those Zach run game in with some spice at the end and they were really helpful. I think having a couple of people who didn't always have their partners around again, they were agents of the production. Like they ask the questions the audience wants to know, but they did it authentically, not la la style. Yeah, yeah. Like I believed I believed them when they were asking the questions. It didn't even though like objectively I can see and agree with that, like while it's happening, I don't feel that. I don't feel it doesn't feel inauthentic. Well, there's something unique about a first season show where everyone's just showing up and giving their, you know, giving it all sort of. I mean, Jesse had never been on reality TV that I know of. I know he was like a model, an actor or whatever. But I mean, the fact that he put his whole marriage out there for the show, I mean, people just bring it in a different way that when you see, you know, Vanderpump Rules, they've been on for ten years, they have boundaries, they have healthy coping mechanisms. They're well now they're like Jesse and Michelle. I think it's interesting about Bravo, these people who like come on at like when there is all this risk in their life, whether it's like they're engaging in criminal activity, like someone like Dan Shaw or, you know, even Judah and Judy. But like, like these people are doing things that could get caught by being on reality TV. So, like, Michelle must have known, like her infidelities could have been like. And yet they agree to turn on and watch their lives blow up in front of the whole. It's very interesting the people who like agreed to that at crisis points in their lives. Yeah, I guess that goes back to the theme of our podcast like unhinged on camera. Like why? Yeah, I mean, Jen Shaw Just Alone is a fascinating character study. Like, you know, you're involved in a massive Ponzi scheme and the federal government is probably investigating. I mean, she must have had some hint. I mean, she knew she was doing criminal activity. So they must feel entitled and like it will happen to me. Yeah, I think you go. Yeah, there's definitely. And I guess that goes back to the best reality stars have some kind of ego problem. I actually think Jesse is going to be top tier bravo. He is fun to watch. Yeah, I would thing being around him as a person but the thing to watch on TV. But yeah, this was our first, you know, male subject. No, no feminism from Jax, though. We had lots of feminism to bring into it too. Yeah, but also him. Well, he's definitely an agent of the patriarchy. Unfortunately, though, Danny. Yeah, Danny is. You know, I think people are ribbing him because he got drunk last episode or whatever. But but. LEMON Nia had such a beautiful repair afterwards where he took true accountability and was like, you know, like it felt different. Like that felt like very human. Yeah. That's why I was surprised people are ripping him. But yeah, so we're going to take a break next week, but we want feedback as far as you know what you do. You want to hear us gush about who do you want to hear of? Let's just reds. Who do you want to hear us? Yeah, try to understand. feel like we should do Teresa and Teresa and Melissa Gorga. Because since they're. A man has been canceled. I think it would be topical to talk about the demise of them as reality stars. Oh, yeah. And Chip and I think Andy said early on, he was like, we will not do another season with it the way it is, which very much felt like alluding to the Teresa and Melissa of it all that needs to end. So maybe that will be our next one, I think. Okay. So two eggs, sprinkle cookies. Sprinkle cookies, give us some feedback. What do you think about sprinkle cookies? What do you think about this season of New Jersey? What do you think about what could potentially happen to New Jersey? Yeah, and we'll incorporate all of it. Yeah. So next time. Bye bye.